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Tuesday, December 18, 2007
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Academic Intimidation
by Thomas Sowell
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There is an article in the current issue of The Chronicle of Higher Education -- the trade publication of the academic world -- about professors being physically intimidated by their students.

"Most of us dread physical confrontation," the author says. "And so these aggressive, and even dangerous, students get passed along, learning that intimidation and implied threats will get them what they want in life."

This professor has been advised, at more than one college, not to let students know where he lives, not to give out his home phone number and to keep his home phone number from being listed.

This is a very different academic world from the one in which I began teaching back in 1962. Over the years, I saw it change before my eyes.

During my first year of teaching, at Douglass College in New Jersey, I was one of the few faculty members who did not invite students to his home. In fact, I was asked by a colleague why I didn't.

"My home is a bachelor apartment" I said, "and that is not the place to invite the young women I am teaching."

His response was: "How did you get to be such an old fogy at such a young age?"

How did we get from there to where professors are being advised to not even have their phone numbers listed?

The answer to that question has implications not only for the academic world but for the society at large and for international relations.

It happened because people who ran colleges and universities were too squeamish to use the power they had, and relied instead on clever evasions to avoid confrontations. They were, as the British say, too clever by half.

"Negotiations" and "flexibility" were considered to be the more sophisticated alternative to confrontation.

Most campuses across the country bought that approach -- and it failed repeatedly on campus after campus, when caving in on one set of student demands led only to new and bigger demands.

The academic world has never fully recovered. Many congratulated themselves on the restoration of "peace" on campus in the 1970s. Almost always, it was the peace of surrender.

In order to appease campus radicals, all sorts of new ideologically oriented courses, programs and departments were created, with an emphasis on teaching victimhood and resentments, often hiring people whose scholarly credentials were meager or even non-existent.

Such courses, programs, and departments are still with us in the 21st century -- not because no one recognizes their intellectual deficiencies but because no one dares to try to get rid of them.

One of the rare exceptions to academic cave-ins around the country during the 1960s was the University of Chicago. When students there seized an administration building, dozens of them were suspended or expelled. That put an end to that.

There is not the slightest reason why academic institutions with far more applicants than they can accept have to put up with disruptions, violence or intimidation. Every student they expel can be replaced immediately by someone on the waiting list.

In case of more serious trouble, they can call in the police. President Nathan Pusey of Harvard did that in 1969, when students there seized an administration building and began releasing confidential information from faculty personnel files to the media.

The Harvard faculty were outraged -- at Pusey. To call the cops onto the sacred soil of Harvard Yard was too much.

It just wasn't politically correct. And, as a later president of Harvard, Lawrence Summers, could tell you, being politically correct can be the difference between remaining president of Harvard and having to give up the office.

Authority in general, and physical force in particular, are anathema to many among the intelligentsia, academic or otherwise. They can always think of some "third way" to avoid hard choices, whether on campus, in society, or among nations.

Moreover, they have little or no interest in the actual track record of those third ways. Having to learn to live with intimidation by their own students is one of the consequences.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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University professors are only getting
a taste of their own medicine. Aren't they the ones that teach that authority is to not be respected? How do they view the police, FBI, CIA, and other law enforcement agencies?

Students know they can't be kicked out of school either because their parents donate a great deal of money or because they can intimidate the school with claims of discrimination, etc.

And now they have given even more power to the students by having all these bizarre courses on gender/sexual issues , males are evil, conservatives are bad, and down with America. These will be the last courses to be dropped before the university system finally yells "uncle" and begs for people to start donating again with a promise to return to the good 'ol days.

Cyclist: I agree they deserve it
The biggest battles, yet to come, will be fought in the high schools and junior highs.

Mom/Dad, if not outright BANNED, have NO authority. Teachers have no authority (NOT over students - just parents.)

Sounds like a bad ripoff of "Lord of the Flies"..

What Goes Around...
...Comes Around.

PC Academics model distain for authority.

Single parent (mother) families are becoming the norm as fathers are driven out of their children’s lives by courts that encourage divorce while discouraging fathers’ rights.

Parent(s), who do discipline their children, often find themselves scrutinized by PC watchdog agencies that now define any physical (and many non-physical) methods of discipline used as child abuse.

Schools are overstepping their bonds and bypassing parents; diddling in the upbringing of children.

Students are becoming a threat to teachers? Gee, I wonder why?

http://klintons.com


It's a terrible thing to note...
...but Dr. Sowell is absolutely correct when he observes that the persons upon whom the responsibility for this situation falls -- professors and college administrators -- are completely uninterested in the consequences of their decisions. Where else would they think to look for confirmation or falsification? The local newspaper's editorial page?

Apologies. Of course that's where they'd look. And the most local newspaper of all is the one run by students, isn't it? Silly me.

The mind is a terrible waste
This is another “chicken and egg” conundrum. Did the permissiveness of the leftist college administrators cause the students to go wild or did the wild students cause the college administrators to go left, or finally, did those leftist students become the administrators of today?

I think that it was at first the short-sightedness of the administrators in the late 60s and 70s that allowed the campuses to go wild that started the ball rolling. Their thinking was that “if only the Vietnam war was stopped all would be sweetness and light”. They had no idea that they were sowing the seeds of Cadmus from which would spring the future college teachers and administrators. So now higher education is essentially run by the leftists and the anarchists at most of the schools in the country.

Almost all business people know that when a company begins failing in it’s core objectives due to bad management that you can not simply fire a few people at the top and move on. The barrel has been spoiled by years of hiring by those bad management people so that most of the mid level and lower level management are now the same as the bad upper level. You must literally clean house. Since that will NEVER happen in today’s public school environment the only way to change the paradigm is to illuminate the public from the school. Cease funding the schools from the public coffers and introduce market forces back into the system as they were originally. The bad schools that will not change will simply go bankrupt and cease to exist.

If the politicians do not have the stomach to fix it, the market certainly will.

Nothingmen
As I get older, I wonder how much common trends are due mostly to a common malaise and common weakness of character than any change in social philosophy. Picture an experiment in which you could create a person completely devoid of strength, ability, insight, character...a "Nothingman".

How would the Nothingman behave? What would he believe? How would he respond to problems, criticisms? How would he see his own flaws and weaknesses?

I've come to the conclusion that he'd he'd hump around like a bonobo, eat quick-to-prep food that tasted good, take drugs that felt good, and watch the pretty television while he wasn't eating or humping or drugging. If he must work, he'd works paycheck to paycheck, spend his time and money unwisely, blame others for his failures, and sits in jealousy of those with more material success. He'd have no respect or authority over the women he humps or the children he fathers...shoot, he most likely doesn't even want children. He'd cower from danger, shrink from criticism, then sit in contempt of those who are better and stronger than he - he'd have a fear and hate of all authority. If he developed an intellect, he'd rationalize that that his way of living is right, and he'd become vain. Most of all, he'd hate, hate, hate all people, institutions, or ideas that held a mirror to him. His life's work would be breaking the mirrors.

Am I wrong?

Excellents posts on this one
Dr. Sowell has given us another gem today and brought out some great minds, also.

Right on Sgt Relic and priceless, Post^it!!! Your Nothingman describes lib-dhimmicrats and those who vote for them.

Or is it just me?

Any parent who surrenders their child to this country's education system is a fool, and their kid will end up an "educated" idiot, just like Algore, Jon Carry, and Johnny Edwards whose only goal in life is to be perceived as smarter than they actually are.

Yet they and the rest of the lib-dummies lose again and again to their nemesis, Dubya, all the while discounting and discrediting his degrees and accomplishments.

What a bunch of extremely small people. Childish, mental midgets.

DISCLAIMER - Except for tax cuts and the war against Islamofacism, Dubya pretty much keeps me pizzed off at him. I love Cheney, tho. Course I'm prejudiced because I'm also originally from WY, where men are men, and sissies are dhimmicrats.

Look around you
and notice the screaming, flailing toddlers on the floors of grocery and department stores during this Christmas season, and the helpless, hand-wringing Mommies and Daddies trying to negotiate with their out of control brats. Look at the helpless adults being whipsawed by a tot who refuses to sit in his car seat or allow his seat belt to be buckled. Watch the child taking unholy glee in shrieking from the back of the church to drown out the priest during mass, or throwing his toys or trying to climb into the pew ahead of him, unrestrained by parents who are trying to pretend they have no idea whose child that is.

And watch those kids grow up to find out for the first time that they cannot have everything they want the instant they want it -- and pick up a gun and start shooting into a church, a mall or a schoolroom.

You reap what you sow, with interest. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

Response to Boutte
"Maybe this is due to the great mandated increase in numbers and class sizes, which makes one-on-one teaching and the sociability that goes with it (such as I experienced iwhen n England) impossible. "

Sorry, but I've got kids in school right now. Their class sizes are smaller than mine were back in the '60s and early '70s. We regularly had 30 kids in a classroom. My children are rarely in a class with more than 25. If anything is keeping the teachers from being more "sociable" with their students, I'd suggest you look no further than the vast number of rules that have popped up restricting how teachers are allowed to deal with their students. Another change is the number of parents who do not support the teachers in issues of discipline.

"Why not blame the climate of fear engendered by the Cold War-- but that wouldn;t suit Sowell's own ideology."

Well, how about because the Cold War has been over for nearly 20 years? I lived through a fair portion of the Cold War and, from the early '70s until it ended, never ran into anyone wandering around in fear because of it. From the end of the Vietnam war until it ended, many people simply disregarded the Cold War as a hold over from the '50s, something that "sophisticated" people didn't even think about. I believe that's why Reagan's head on approach to the Cold War was so derided at the time and why many people are still unwilling to recognize that he had anything to do with ending it. Reagan aside, though, it's hardly reasonable to assume fear of something most people haven't feared for over 30 years is driving any of this.

I lay it to the...
cultural revolution of the late sixties; the disintegration of rules, so anything goes, find something (anything) to rebel against, if it feels good, do it, whatever you can get away with, what's in it for me, slap on the wrist judges, the I'm a victim of my childhood pstchology, etc.

An article without a point
Sowell simply wanted to attack what he perceives as leftism on campus. There is no connection between his examples and the actual issue discussed in the CHE. What a lame article.

If I had to listen....
to an entire lecture by AKAGI*, I might commit violence, too.
Cheers.

* Akagi is a frequent poster here at TH. From his postings, I assume he is connected to academia.

Well, well, well
I guess we really thought that we could abandon the rules that make society function and everything would keep functioning as though those rules were still in place. Reality is a hard teacher. The problem was and is that professors were teaching theory but life has to be lived in reality.

so sadly true
Teachers are so into politically correct that they have forgotten how to teach basics.
Our kids are being taught over and over that it is what one says, not what they actually do that counts. The rancher providing habitat, food and water to countless head of wildlife across this country is the bad guy, the environmentalist talking about what needs to be done & figuring out how to take control of the ranchers land is the good guy.
Global warming is a fact, but it is totally unnecessary for believers to cut back, but non beleivers are destrooying the earth, no matter how little they use, "they are missing the point".
Great article.

Clean House is Right
Vic, your comparison to a company and the way wrong headed policy infiltrates to all levels is accurate. I taught in the public school system for seventeen years. For several years, I participated at the district level in grading writing samples to determine writing proficiency.
There was a schism between the old guard and younger teachers. The old guard would look at a piece of writing and say, "This is a piece of garbage!" The younger teachers would decry, "...but I can see his/her intent. I understand what the writer is trying to say." The debate would go back and forth. The old guard said, "There is a standard, and this kid didn't meet it." The younger teachers said, "That is too harsh." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to extrapolate what happens when the thinking of the younger teachers infects the entire system. Sad to say No Child Left Behind is too flawed in its implementation to fix the problem. Although I was one of the younger teachers, I was fighting on the side of the old guard. Like Sowell, I was informed I was an "old fogy."

Boutte
The 60s ended nearly forty years ago. Surely by now you can take an objective look at that decade and acknowledge that some of the things that liberals and leftists did back then were dumb.

It was great fun rebelling against teachers back in the 60s, until you find yourself in the position of teacher. Then it's not so fun.


Cyclist, et al:
You will be interested in “The True Liberal, The Modern Liberal, and the Environmental Liberal”, a chapter out of “Man in the Trap”, by Elsworth Baker, M.D. An interesting note is IT WAS WRITTEN IN 1965!

Here is an excerpt:

“...Because he cannot compete with the father, he [the modern liberal] hates both the competition and the father and identifies always with the underdog, the unsuccessful and the indolent. Subversively defiant, he dare not show any open aggression, so great is the fear of the father and so intense the guilt. Moreover, his biosystem cannot stand it. He can allow himself to be aggressive only in causes and abstractions. Any other aggression fills him with intense anxiety and leads him to pacify, compromise, appease. For this reason he is unable to assume responsible leadership whether it be in government or in raising a child. Privilege he wants as a right and not something that must be earned competitively. ... At the same time, liberals view the entire military (the father) with contempt, as they do the police (the father), because (1) their purpose is to protect society (the father), not rebel against it, and (2) these are not intellectual careers but active, aggressive ones, and what the [modern] liberal cannot accept, he derides. This is of course, an emotional plague reaction. That the military and police provide for his personal safety and well-being, and this at great peril to themselves, evokes no feeling of gratitude or admiration.”

http://www.orgonomy.org/article_terrorism_trueliberal.html

The inmates are running the asylum!
The current administration is run by the folks that were the inmates only a few years ago and now they are what the new inmates are rebeling against. Just desserts! It would be funny if there were an alternative for higher education that those with sense and rational thought could send their kids to achieve what has become a necessity for most to succeed in life.

I guess the best lessons are to found in the likes of Bill Gates, Mark Cuban and such in that they became successful because they dropped out of college as the lessons they were being fed did not feed the bulls.

Our society is following in the footsteps of the Roman empire. We are fat and content to observe others performing while we sit idly by and stuff our faces and drink our fill. This obviously does not describe everyone, but unfortunately, it describes too many.

INSPECTOR MORSE
LAWRENCE SUMMERS is a mystery worthy of Inspector Morse. Call his demise at Grand Olde Ivy a murder and start looking for clues.

MOTIVE-OPPORTUNITY-MEANS

MOTIVE - A 26 Billion Dollar endowment is motivation enough for any schemer wanting power leveraged by the victims money

OPPORTUNITY - Anywhere when there are leftist collaborators willing to do the masters work; that being, the master is a eight billion dollar megalomaniac craving Marxist power at all costs, i.e., SEIG HEIL GEORGE SOROS.

MEANS - Anytime when the leftist collaborators find it right to pull the trigger as when Lawrence Summers raised proven academic differences between males and females.

The Harvard Faculty became the mob and Harvard Yard the Place de Concorde reaping Lawrence Summer's head.

Inspector Morse investigate SEIG HEOL GEORGE SORO'S powers and controls at Harvard University and connect the dots.

I am in Awe
Thomas Sewell, you are an amazing writer. I was told to reflect on your style and the means with which you apply the point.

Thank you for cultivating this God given skill. It is a joy to read.

All of this Started...
When authorities started giving in to the demands of spoiled brats back during the '60's and '70's. These same spoiled brats are now in charge, facing off with another generation of spoiled brats.

Thanks sedonaman!
That is good and scary stuff. Nothing has changed with liberals of today. Especially the ingratitude towards those that protect them from harm.

Dr. Sowell's article was about university level education where the professor has a great deal of power and influence. It is not quite the same in high school where the teacher's hands are tied by the school administration.

In high school the parents are in total denial that their children can be a problem and look to the school to "fix" everything. They all want their children to get straight "A's" and have excellent citizenship. And when that doesn't happen, well, the teacher is to blame. Parents go to the school adminstration and then the caving starts.

The biggest concern at your local school district is to not get sued. So an administration will do anything the parent wants to avoid a lawsuit. They do not back up the teachers when teachers discipline for disruptive behavior and try to enforce accountability for not turning in homework, etc. The highest dropout rate for teachers is in the first three years of employment as they go from being starry-eyed about actually teaching students to becoming disgruntled and bitter due to lack of support from the administration and the parents.


Oh no!

Thomas... did you really have to write this brilliant and insightful commentary?

People have already questioned liberals... on their patriotism, their envy and their sanity.

What next... on their courage?

Oh the calamities, the calamities.

Can't we all just get along?

i am so tired
of all the ills of society being blamed on liberals and education.

i mean just where do you think bill gates and steve jobs come from?
our university system is the best in the world and we are the greatest country in the world because of our educational system.

too many conservatives always want to blame others rather than take responsibilty for themselves. according to them they are the ultimate victims.

WAKE UP

this country was ruled by a conservative congress for 12 years and a conservative president for 8. if there is a problem i would look there first.

we have some conservatives who proudly support torture, capital punishment and pre-emptive war.

we have conservatives who were hitting on congressional pages, cruising for gay sex, abusing illegal prescription drugs, taking bribes endangering national security,

and you want to blame liberals for the lack of morals in this country?

neither liberals or conservatives are to blame for this non-issue. if anyone is to blame it is parents

i think generally this is simply an issue of older people not liking the change they see in young people and this has been the case since the beginning of time.

To Well Now
Have you ever actually worked in a public school? I have. And I assure you that parents are not banned, and that everybody is scared to death of them because of the influence they have. A parent can demand a conference with his child's teacher(s) and/or administrators and/or counselors and get it instantly, just as soon as a meeting can be scheduled. The school is then in the defensive position and must answer the parent's charges ("You are prejudiced against my child and that's why you flunked him") by producing documentation (he skipped 37 classes and handed in no work). Where I worked, parents had to be telephoned personally by the teacher if the kid had skipped class that day and advised by mail halfway through an advisory of grade-to-date. In addition, an attendance secretary personally contacted a parent to check on every first-period absence from school. Parents were constantly involved.

Parents have enormous access. A parent can get his child excused from an assignment; a substitution must be made, on the teacher's time by the way. A parent can get his child moved to another teacher or in some cases to another school. A Parents' Night is always scheduled, and parents are always allowed to enter and view the school facility and sit in on classes. I never heard of a single exception. Further, parents routinely remove kids from school for all kinds of reasons (a week at Disneyland, a cruise, a day-trip with the family, at home taking care of younger children, sleeping late because last night the family went to a ball game) and the teacher must provide makeup work. A parent can get a high school kid excused from half a day's schooling so the kid can go to work at McDonald's. In addition, parents serve as classroom aides, tutors, chaperones at dances and parties, escorts on class trips, as class parents, on committees, and in the PTA.

Where do you people come up with this nonsense?

Not of my experience
but I know in my former high school, police automtically attend some parent "conferences."

I've never had a college student threaten me, altho' I had one once say if I didn't give her an A that she'd do to the dean. I told her to go right ahead and never heard any more about her.

Students in general have learned they can bully their parents, so why not bully everyone else? Colleges are capitulating by holding their own "parent conferences"--whadda joke.

Isn't there a non-politically correct Biblical allusion that fits here?-you reap what you sow.

Role of the Right
It's a rare day that townhall doesn't include some anti-academic diatribe so you can hardly say that the Right is teaching respect for professors and teachers. And let's not forget that David Horowitz has had a deal going for some time now that encourages college students to report their professors for teaching what is "leftist"---reminiscent of kids in Communist countries being taught to "turn in" a teacher who fails to spout the party line.

You folks constantly rant that college and university professors are lazy, overpaid, overtenured, and politically not to your liking. Moving down the scale to high school and elementary school, you say that teachers are stupid, lazy, underprepared, overpaid, overprotected by unions and the NEA, inaccessible to parental influence, and, again, not nearly far-enough Right to suit townhallers.

Are we to believe that you don't share these opinions with your children? And they will pick up your attitudes.

I taught for ten years in a public high school and in a subsequent profession I taught university students at the undergraduate and graduate level. Along the way I noticed that students from cultures that emphasize respect for teachers (Chinese, Orthodox Jewish) were lavishly respectful of me. Just notice what you're saying at home to encourage disrespect of teachers in your childlren.

LIBERAL ARTS HIGHJACKED
"Liberals" have highjacked the Liberal Arts; ergo, I am more liberal in reference to the exercise of Liberty in terms of sexual attitudes, social attitudes, economic attitudes, and family attitudes then those calling themselves "Progressive" stuck in failed socialist policies like the New Deal and Great Society.

Real Democrats volunteer joining the Armed Forces and support the War Against Islamofascism.

The Putz at MoveOn.Org and MediaMatters are false fronts that do not represent true Democratic Party members. These Putz always exagerate their numbers, their contributions, and their supposed power. No one has ever audited (made transparent) their bogus claims.

lilly
you are an articulate and knowledgeable poster and i always read your posts with interest.

i know it can be lonely here for those of us not in lockstep with the conservative dogma but keep up the good work.

The left fears....
...being called a term that they misued way back in the sixties. Most every authority figure at a university who tried to enforce a rule was called a "fascist". The result is that almost no one wants to enforce a rule except those that honor the gods of political correctness.

The term "fascist" is second only to "racist" in regard to a label that is expected to end conversation and gain victory for the corrupt.
This is the type of "adult" schools and parents are now nurturing. Not a pleasant thought.


There's another factor.
When I applied for college back around 1970, colleges wanted character references, they wouldn't admit people with criminal (or even some misdemeanor) records and you had to be in good physical and mental health. Things were changing at that time, but many colleges and universities required good moral character for admittance.

Now, criminal records don't seem to matter.


And, contrary to what Vic says, since the boomers have passed through their college years, institutions of higher education are coming up with excuses and creating more programs so they can keep their enrollment figures up, even though the college-age population is not as large as it once was. As evidence, I submit the lowering of standards for graduate level programs.

religiouslib
Bill Gates was a dropout.

Just so you know.

it's simple
The university system is reaping what it sewed. The fact is that the university system collapsed in the late 60's and was rescued in the 70's when the Kent State mess was shutdown. Kent State was the point at which the gutless students and their agitators would get them killed. Hence the elimination of the collapse of the student attacks.

Now the dolts that were involved in those student attacks are the professors and are now getting a taste of their own medicine. It would seems that the back lash generated won't be over until the gutless are out of the university setting and the people who want to be educators and have the fortitude push these "students" out of the universities and colleges.

AudiR10, he can't read as I pointed
out earlier that Gates and Mark Cuban are examples of dropouts that have created very highly successful organizations that have made them rise to the top of the wealthiest in the world.

Perhaps, being a "religious" lib, he has taken a vow of poverty and disdains anyone that makes money.

Lilly
Your first post was good and on the mark. The second was a useless rant. The permissive behaviors encouraged by the left are the cause of the breakdown in authority in public schools and everywhere else. The 60s movement was all about "rebelling agains the man" which was translated into doing whatever feels good.

It is only the NeoLiberal who demands an explanation for everything while refusing to take any responsibility for his or her actions. The NeoLiberal demands that everyone must participate in the decision making process, any rules that are not collectively decided upon are "bogus." There must be "buy-in" by all parties or it is too "fascist."

The real world does not work by committee. It does not respect feelings. It neither cares or does not care about emotional states. It just exists.

K12 Public Schools can be saved and fixed with a simple stroke of a pen. Offer a free public education but DO NOT mandate it. When education becomes a privilege and not an entitlement, public and private schools will be filled with students that want to learn. Otherwise, students come to school with the expectation of being given something that must be worked for....an education.

Wake UP religiouslib!
The last conservative President we had was the late great President Ronald W. Reagan. The current occupant of the White House is not a conservative. The GOP label does not make someone a conservative. Even more so the 12 years of Republican majority cannot honestly be characterized as "conservative congress."

Deal with facts for a change! Glaringly in your post any semi-alert person would recall that Bill Gates founded Microsoft and became a world-beater after he *dropped out of college.* The world of academia of course took their revenge later by denying him when he volunteered to teach a class *because he has no college degree.* One would think his class just might be worth the time and effort considering his *results*, but of course academics are not interested in results and credentialists everywhere would cringe. Even other professionals across the country with degrees have had similar results because they lacked a "teaching certificate" and/or they did not have an "education" degee. One difference I know of here in Ohio is the community colleges here do not require "education" degrees and actively recruit business professionals to teach after hours (or whenever if they are retired.)

Wake UP religiouslib! 2
If you are "so tired of all the ills of society being blamed on liberals and education," perhaps you should look at liberals' policies and the *results* of the policies they have been able to enact. It is difficult after the most cursory audit to place the blame *anywhere else.* Have you ever noticed that *ideas have consequences*? So do actions. They outweigh good intentions and beautiful theories. Ignoring the human condition and human nature in favor of an attractive-sounding policy is not productive. You know, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is one of the definitions of insanity! Liberals keep fighting for one failed policy after another despite repeated failure and regardless of the human cost. Remember the evil Republican Congress' heartless "Wefare Reform Act of 1996" that was going to put millions homeless on the streets? Funny how Clinton took credit for it later after it was an outstanding success. Notice that it was crafted with experience and human nature in mind. It was based on the successful *results* from Michigan's reform experiment. Note that much of the homeless on our streets are the result of deinstitutionalization policies promoted by guess who? Tax cuts have always resulted in an economic boom, yet liberals unceasingly push tax and spend policies.

Try thinking about policy like an engineer for a change and you might learn something. An engineer's basic question is, "Does it work?" If it does not, he does not care how beautiful the design is, he fixes it or scraps it and starts over. If it does work, he might look to see if it is improvable, but then, "better is the enemy of good enough" and he might just leave it alone since is *does work*. FYI, I am not an engineer, but this approach has considerable merit *when trying to solve problems*!

Wake UP religiouslib! 3
Another worthwhile approach is to consider what problem was being addressed by a tradition before abandoning it. Of course, a knowledge of history is useful in this, but academics don't seem to be interested in teaching history; they would rather, as Dewey proposed in the early 1900s, use public education to promote social change. May he rot.

Reality is and facts are stubborn things. Even that old liberal Sen. Daniel Patrick Monihan had the sense to know that while we are all entitled to our own opinions, we are not entitled to our own *facts*. The liberal education establishment is trying hard to do just that and has been for some time. They keep hollering when they keep bumping their noses, poor babies.

bill gates went to harvard
He enrolled at Harvard College in the fall of 1973 intending to get a pre-law degree,[20] but did not have a definite study plan.[21] While at Harvard, he met his future business partner, Steve Ballmer, whom he later appointed as CEO of Microsoft. At the same time, he co-authored and published a paper on algorithms with computer scientist Christos Papadimitriou.[22]

he may not have finished but was probably too advanced and making to much money.

Safe colleges
I remember seeing a list of, I believe, 5 colleges in this country where our children can get an education, rather than a liberal indoctrination.

Franciscan University of Steubenville (Ohio) where my oldest daughter goes is one of them. Grove City (PA) was another. I *think* the Military Academy at West Point (go Black Knighs!) was another.

Anybody recall that list and the source?

Rich and Audi
point taken with Bill Gates,
but he seems to think going to college is important
even if he did drop out.

As to college and $ - check out how much people
make based on years of education finished.
You will find a strong link.

RE: those out of control toddlers
I have two pre-teens and have talked to many other parents like myself. There are many reasons why you see parents not controlling their kids, which is just saying they are not raising/training them properly, but here are a few that I haven't seen posted yet:

- Many parents don't know how to train their children. No one ever taught them.
- Many parents are unsure of what they do know, so they are easily swayed from one method to another. This inconsistency causes problems for kids.
- Many, many parents are afraid of the anonymous tipster. They know what to do, but are unwilling to, say, discipline their kids in public because it could result in a visit by social services.

This co-parenting by parents, their neighbors, and the local authorities is probably the biggest hindrance to raising children of good character. Parents need support, not competition, to do their job well.

Physical attacks on professors
Children who have been abandoned to "DAYCARE" become extremely aggressive (seeking for attention). Now there are teenage girls who are such bullies that there are newspaper stories about them. Are the violent college students graduates of "DAYCARE"?

To Lilly re: respect for athority
Lilly, what we are teaching our children is what the Liberal Education Establishment *does not want* and that is *critical thinking*. We do not teach them to disrespect athority, but we don't want them to blindly believe everything they hear either.

After my son was shown "An Inconvenient Truth" at school, I bought him the BBC documentary "The Great Global Warming Swindle" to take to school and ask for equal time. I still haven't heard an answer to my proposal.

The liberals are trying to win the argument without even acknowledging that there is one: "the discussion is over" and other such nonsense. Note it is the liberals who are constantly trying to censure the conservative voice, not the other way around.

Dr. Spock
Dr. Spock was a great promoter of "permissive" parenting. He has fairly recently said something along the lines of, "that didn't work out too well. Why did parents blindly follow our advice?"

Well, for one thing, there was a great belief following WWII that "science" would solve all our problems and he was a Doctor, and ...

Fortunately, my parents did not follow his prescriptions. "Mean" parents, they were. Thank God!

My oldest brother is a priest, and he is regularly amazed when counseling families at how many are surprised at the news that the parents are in charge and do not have to convice their children of the rightness of their decisions. "Because I am you father and I said so" is a perfectly acceptable statement to make. God put them in charge of their children and it is their responsibility to make decisions for the best welfare of the family.

I am a "mean" father, too.

Sir Michael
thank you for your thoughtful and civil response.

i do not agree of course, for example, reagan was responsible for the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill.

clinton takes credit for welfare reform because he vetoed the first two attempts until a more liberal bill was written.

despite your re-writing of history liberals are responsible for

labor laws and child labor laws.
the GI bill
the interstate system
bank deposit insurance
women's right to vote
the space program
peace corps
food safety laws


i could go on but you get my point.

ssir michael
when it comes to parenting you are way off base.

i have known liberals who were great parents and conservatives who were horrible parents.
i have known conservatives who were great parents and liberals who were horrible parents.

to attempt to define parenting as political is simply not backed up by any studies.

religiouslib ?
Gee, when did I say anything about the political views of good and bad parents?

You are the only one seeing any "attempt to define parenting as political" as far as I can see.

Cinderella
I fail to see what my posthad to do with enrollment and new programs. Perhaps you think that if all taxpayer funding and credits are removed from the schools that these new programs will keep the schools going?

If they are like most of the socalled "new" programs that have come out in the past 50 years they will only hasten the decline.

Religious Liberal or Socialist? Diff?
quoth religiouslib: "despite your re-writing of history liberals are responsible for"

...

labor laws and child labor laws.

10. "Shortening the workday" and "Securing to every worker a rest period of no less than two days in each week."
11. "Enacting of an adequate federal anti-child labor amendment."

the GI bill

5. "Immediate government relief of the unemployed by the extension of all public works and a program of long range planning of public works ... All persons thus employed to be engaged at hours and wages fixed by bona-fide labor unions."
7. "A system of unemployment insurance."
8. "The nation-wide extension of public employment agencies in cooperation with city federations of labor."


the interstate system

3. "National ownership and democratic management of railroads and other means of transportation and communication."


... etc.

Numbered items from the 1928 campaign platform for the American Socialist Party.

religiouslib & history
You should check a few facts before you post.

I wouldn't call Eisenhower a liberal. He fathered the interstate highway system for defense. He also was behind the creation of NASA out of NACA (the National Advisory Committee on Aeronautics.)

Are you blaming Reagan for the deinstitutionization of the mentally ill because he signed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act in 1967 as Governor of California? I think if you look into it, the Act is not unreasonable (providing for the instutionalization of the unable to provide self-care and the violent) and though he signed it, the California Legislature wrote it. The ACLU and their cohorts are responsible for the general problem with the mentally ill living on the street. Check out what those initials stand for and the cases they have brought to the courts. Please also note the predominantly liberal character of the courts during this time.

Also please note that the "goodness" of some of the items you quote are not universally applauded.

Your characterization of the Welfare Reform Act of 1996 & Clinton is called, "spin." Check the news sources at that time.

Deornwulf
I hate to disillusion you, but, given a choice, all kids will NOT flock to schools beating down the doors and begging for entrance. I used to think that too. I took a job teaching high school when my own kids were already in high school; we needed extra income for college tuition. Until that point I actually thought the way you think because my kids, with or without mandated education, would have spent 24/7 pursuing their interests in libraries and laboratories and I assumed all kids were like that. I then met reality. Many, many, many kids would prefer to stay stoned all day. Get drunk. Have sexual intercourse in a parked pickup truck. Take aforementioned pickup truck apart and re-assemble it. Join the Army. Go swimming illegally in a quarry. Sleep around the clock, twice. Work at McDonald's. Work construction. Work in the sod fields (which is terrible work). Anything, in fact, but pursue readin' and writin'. Should we address this with more vocational training programs? I think so, but I don't expect that to happen. That great intellectual, George W Bush, has said all American kids should go to college. He has spoken.

Sir Michael
I have no problem with your wanting your son's classmates to see both sides of a question, but why did you send a child to do a parent's job? Is this a high school? Decisions about science curriculum rest with the chairman of the science department. Find out his name (call the administrative office of the school and ask). Then make an appointment for a conference with him. Request that the principal sit in on the meeting. Then state your case, calmly and politely.

If the school has no science department, somewhere in your school district there is a science supervisor. Find him.

Please note that I am not saying all of this in an anti-Gore spirit; I have read enough about Corporate America's bankrolling of the let's-all-make-fun-of-global-warming-so-our-profits-won't-be-affected movement to see how that works. But parents DO have avenues for input at school. And (in my opinion) it is better to act on your convictions than to send your kid a message that you are a powerless victim. Some kids' minds may be changed. Be prepared that your kid may be made fun of by other kids. You can't control that.


Continuing to be amazed
A previous post paraphrased the classic quote "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". This could be applied to the individuals that continue to believe that Lilly will ever "get it".

I am a frequent visitor to this site and am perplexed by the number of posts that continue to attempt to show Lilly the "errors of her ways". Here's my advice, "STOP"! She hasn't caught on yet and she never will. She is so completely brainwashed by her liberal views, it's too late for her. Quit wasting valuable time and effort on the chore.

If you need further proof of the way the liberal mind works, check out this quote from religouslib

"lilly
you are an articulate and knowledgeable poster and i always read your posts with interest.

i know it can be lonely here for those of us not in lockstep with the conservative dogma but keep up the good work."

What's this guy been smoking?

Sorry to hear that this is happening.
In my days at college after declaring our major we were invited, on a rotating basis, to each professor's house. I guess those days are gone, at least at some colleges and universities.

I was going to say the same thing

Sir Michael writes: Tuesday, December, 18, 2007 5:02 PM
Are you blaming Reagan for the deinstitutionization of the mentally ill because he signed the Lanterman-Petris-Short Act … … The ACLU and their cohorts are responsible
---
I was going to say the same thing, thank you.
===========

My brother a Ph.D. college professor for nearly 50 years, says my brain was not cluttered with the things they teach in college, so it was available to accept and process new ideas about computers. I’ll agree with that! Wait a minute, did he mean my brain was empty?

I spent two years in High School in the 1940s, milking 50 cows morning and night. I got into the computer business in 1950, and just a few years later I was teaching computer subjects to classrooms full of college graduates (including a bunch of PhDs) and didn’t retire until I was near 50 years old.

So something worked right. I knew more than Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, I could fill pages with what I know (think?) are the mistakes they made, but who cares.

I just wanted to travel the world with my Sweetie, rather than become a billionaire. Yah, I believe that.

Sir Michael
The idea behind the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill was that they would receive necessary treatment in the "least restrictive environment" in their home communities. This would include medication, counseling, and supervised residence and employment. This was never funded. I can't imagine how you can possibly blame the ACLU for that---they don't vote funding. You seriously don't know what you're talking about.

Programs serving the mentally ill in the community should be funded through community initiatives. In the mania to privatize that has come with the conservative movement, we have seen a number of group homes very badly privatized by some very bad people. And it is a disgrace that a rich country like ours lets its chronic schizophrenics sleep in parks (summer) and on sidewalk heating grates (winter). When we all come before God to give an account of ourselves, we will surely have to answer for this.

lily - public schools are a waste
public schools have become nothing but a bureaucracy.

they have become so process oriented that they do not want to interact with the students. they put the homework in the in box and if they do not, there is no call-out in front of the class for the homework. this type of embarrassment worked when i went to school.

many of the teachers are not equipped to teach the math and science that they are assigned. it amazes me how little they know. i have to correct everything that they are taught because the teachers cannot even get the concepts right.

they told us our youngest was not capable of learning the math/science/etc. we teach him at home and he does just fine.

public schools do not want to teach and they prove it everyday

one who is wrong is Lilly


lilly writes: Tuesday, December, 18, 2007 8:39 PM
I can't imagine how you can possibly blame the ACLU for that---they don't vote funding. You seriously don't know what you're talking about.
=======
No you are the one who is wrong, Lilly.

The idea behind the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill was strictly an ACLU and the lefties idea. They pushed it for all it was worth. They called the Mental Hospitals, “Mental Prisons,” and said there was no law that permitted the government to place these people in such places.

Reagan was against it, but he had a lefty legislature, and you know what they think of human rights -- they insist they are human wrongs.

reagans mental health block grants
The
Reagan administration also sought the block grants as a way of “defunding
the left,” on the theory that the categorical grants had been used by the
opposition party to build its political constituency. In total, Congress approved
reducing funds for the health services grants from about $1.6
billion in 1981 to about $1.4 billion in 1983.

He took money for community based mental health programs and put it in block grants for the state to decide how to use it as a political tool.

where do you think block grant money ends up.

if you think the answer is "where it was supposed to"
you know nothing of politics.

sir micheal - engineering
i agree with your assessments.

the problems need to be addressed by the engineers who are the problemsolvers of the world.

the same would be true of the education mess. it would be a process of:

analyze -> design -> implement -> analyze ...

metrics would be kept to objectively assess the performance. in this way changes can be methodically introduced and evaluated. those that are ineffective or detrimental can be eliminated.

religousLib - duh
if you think that the federal gov't is effective and efficient at anything it does, i have a bridege to sell you.

unfortunately, the fact that the federal gov't has billions at its disposal allows it to funnel it where ever they want. oh sure, they give it a good title to the legislation; something with "Child" or "Children" in it, but it usually only lines the pockets of other bureacrats or lawyers.

i can't think of a single program that is run effectively or efficiently.

Oh please!
Deinstitutionalizing the mentally ill was a lefty idea that was sold as not including the dangerous and those who could not reasonably expected to be able care for themselves. Like many lefty ideas, this was the cover for their feel-good nonsense and was taken to the extreme that any institutionalization was a bad thing. The next thing you knew, the ACLU was suing, claiming we had no "right" to institutionalize those people who merely had a "different lifestyle" and who are we to judge anyway? Remember that conservative (not!) mayor Ed Koch rounding up the homeless in killing, freezing winter weather and being take to court by the ACLU? As the saying goes, "you could look it up."

To do as was done is criminal feel-good nonsense. Even the non-violent often do not continue to take their medicine and soon spiral down. These poor people live lives that are nasty, brutish and short so that liberals can feel good self-deluding that they did something good. Intentions are all that these fools seem count; the outcomes of their policies are paid for by others - their intended beneficiaries are in truth their victims.

Then, too, they use the "homeless" as a club to beat any Republican President with. It is funny how the homeless stories appear and disappear depending on who is in the White House. And the pretense that these are normal poor family people who have just fallen on hard luck! Is there a greater falsity in the liberal press? Is global warming or the stories told about Aids any worse? I doubt that they have harmed anything near to the number of people they have harmed with their lies about the homeless and the mentally ill.

Sir Michael
i give you proof that reagan was responsible but like some conservatives you want to blame all the ills of society on liberals.

poor victimized conservatives.
if only Americans weren't so stupid and stopped voting for those horrid liberals American would be heaven on earth.
every problem in America is the fault of

liberals
aclu
activist judges
clinton
liberal media
uneducated voters
environmentalists
women voters
the education system
and the list goes on.

quit blaming your fellow americnans and take some responsibilty for yourself.

religiouslib, get a grip
You gave no "proof" about Reagan being responsible for deinstitutionalization and merely made assertions that it was so, while ignoring data I did post. Just LOOK at the cases the ACLU have brought and tell me it's not their doing. Probably why you haven't looked, or at least haven't addressed the issue - you can't if you have any integrity at all.

I am begining to think trying to talk with you is a waste of time.

Yes, the vast majority of the problems I see in this country ARE the results of liberal's policies and the liberal courts going back to the appointments of FDR. Much evil was done while some of us where standing up and winning the Cold War. Unfortunately we can't fight all battles at once. Some of us have been addressing some of these issues, at least since 1989, but alas other younger men and women are now fighting a new foe so the effort is liable to be diluted again.

Academia Today (Part One)
As a newly faculty member at a small state school in western Maryland, I believe there are some real seeds of truth in Dr. Sowell's article, but feel some of my own experiences may shed light on things a bit.

As a PhD student I saw several distinct generations of faculty. There were the old guard, those who started teaching in the early 70s, the generation one step younger who were students in the 70s and then those who were newer faculty members who were just coming into their own within the department. Each of these groups had their own way of doing things. While I wouldn't even dream of addressing any of the older professors by their first name, the younger generations wanted to be on a first-name basis with everyone.

Now, as a faculty member, I find myself at a much more traditional department, where students refer to their instructors with a proper title and surname. I think that students get a better education because they understand both of our roles. I tell my students that I am not there to be a friend, but am trying to help them understand the subject so that they can function more productively in society. I am on good terms with students, and it is enlightening to see so many of them add me to their Facebook friends lists after the semester has ended. I do not think that any of them have the misunderstanding of the position each of us has, and I have never felt threatened by any of my students. They know I respect them as students and human beings. I don't give easy grades, and am making a reputation as a demanding teacher, but they respect what I am trying to do as well and have been quite supportive of my efforts.
(continued below)

Academia Today (part one)
As a newly faculty member at a small state school in western Maryland, I believe there are some real seeds of truth in Dr. Sowell's article, but feel some of my own experiences may shed light on things a bit.

As a PhD student I saw several distinct generations of faculty. There were the old guard, those who started teaching in the early 70s, the generation one step younger who were students in the 70s and then those who were newer faculty members who were just coming into their own within the department. Each of these groups had their own way of doing things. While I wouldn't even dream of addressing any of the older professors by their first name, the younger generations wanted to be on a first-name basis with everyone.

Now, as a faculty member, I find myself at a much more traditional department, where students refer to their instructors with a proper title and surname. I think that students get a better education because they understand both of our roles. I tell my students that I am not there to be a friend, but am trying to help them understand the subject so that they can function more productively in society. I am on good terms with students, and it is enlightening to see so many of them add me to their Facebook friends lists after the semester has ended. I do not think that any of them have the misunderstanding of the position each of us has, and I have never felt threatened by any of my students. They know I respect them as students and human beings. I don't give easy grades, and am making a reputation as a demanding teacher, but they respect what I am trying to do as well and have been quite supportive of my efforts.
(Continued below)

Academia Today (part 2)
That said, I don't know if this is a question of liberal views or not. I'm conservative, although that doesn't really have much of an impact on classes. My goal is to teach the material so students can make informed judgments on their own, not to promote an ideology. I have colleagues who are quite liberal who are equally respected by their students and who apply the same principles of behavior in class.

I think the problem occurs when there is a breakdown of roles, be they in the family, classroom, workplace, or government office. The causes of the breakdown are multifaceted. No longer is seniority as important. An 18 year-old with a new computer game can suddenly become the flavor of the week, or a two-term senator the specialist on foreign policy. This is true on both sides of the political isle and is probably more a reflection of the ultra-concentrated society we live in than the politics we embrace. Sowell's point is good to bring up and consider, but needs to be considered in the larger framework of our contemporary society instead of being artificially confined to a discussion of politics.

Academia Today (part two)
That said, I don't know if this is a question of liberal views or not. I'm conservative, although that doesn't really have much of an impact on classes. My goal is to teach the material so students can make informed judgments on their own, not to promote an ideology. I have colleagues who are quite liberal who are equally respected by their students and who apply the same principles of behavior in class.

I think the problem occurs when there is a breakdown of roles, be they in the family, classroom, workplace, or government office. The causes of the breakdown are multifaceted. No longer is seniority as important. An 18 year-old with a new computer game can suddenly become the flavor of the week, or a two-term senator the specialist on foreign policy. This is true on both sides of the political isle and is probably more a reflection of the ultra-concentrated society we live in than the politics we embrace. Sowell's point is good to bring up and consider, but needs to be considered in the larger framework of our contemporary society instead of being artificially confined to a discussion of politics.

Good points, but - -
- - my wife is also a college professor, fully armed with a Ph.D. (Business) and a few other well earned Masters degrees (MBA & Logistics) who freely offers her cellphone number and e-mail address - - and for apparently good reasons: Awaiting entrance to Monty Python's "Spamalot" while on vacation in NYC last week, a student had questions on some assignment. And, sure'nuff, my bride assisted him, answered the questions -- and life goes on...
PS/Spamalot was terrific! Shrub'ry terrific even!

I have to ask myself
Is there anything we do better now than we did 40 years ago? If there is I sure haven't found it. It seems like the right time for the pendulum to swing the other way. Every time I read one of Dr. Sowell’s articles I learn way to much. He sure has a way of connecting the dots for the rest of us. I guess this might not be so hard to believe where the academic world caves to every other faction why not the bully student. So now not only does a potential employer have to worry about the academics but whether a school is perpetuating bullies that might land up in their business, now there is a comforting thought. I don’t have much to add to this conversation other than amazement.

Email me if you like barrym@tds.net
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