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Tuesday, November 06, 2007
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Stop "Making A Difference"
by Thomas Sowell
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Among the many mindless mantras of our time, "making a difference" and "giving back" irritate me like chalk screeching across a blackboard.

I would be scared to death to "make a difference" in the way pilots fly airliners or brain surgeons operate. Any difference I might make could be fatal to many people.

Making a difference makes sense only if you are convinced that you have mastered the subject at hand to the point where any difference you might make would be for the better.

Very few people have mastered anything that well beyond their own limited circle of knowledge. Even fewer seem to think far enough ahead to consider that question. Yet hardly a day goes by without news of some uninformed busybodies on one crusade or another.

Even the simplest acts have ramifications that spread across society the way waves spread across a pond when you drop a stone in it.

Among those who make a difference by serving food to the homeless, how many have considered the history of societies which have made idleness easy for great numbers of people?

How many have studied the impact of drunken idlers on other people in their own society, including children who come across their needles in the park -- if they dare to go to the parks?

How many have even considered such questions relevant as they drop their stone in the pond without thinking about the waves that spread out to others?

Maybe some would still do what they do, even if they thought about it. But that doesn't mean that thinking is a waste of time.

"Giving back" is a similarly mindless mantra.

I have donated money, books and blood for people I have never seen and to whom I owe nothing. Nor is that unusual among Americans, who do more of this than anyone else.

But we are not "giving back" anything to those people because we never took anything from them in the first place.

If we are giving back to society at large, in exchange for all that society has made possible for us, then that is a very different ballgame.

Giving back in that sense means acknowledging an obligation to those who went before us and for the institutions and values that enable us to prosper today. But there is very little of this spirit of gratitude and loyalty in many of those who urge us to "give back."

Indeed, many who repeat the "giving back" mantra would sneer at any such notion as patriotism or any idea that the institutions and values of American society have accomplished worthy things and deserve their support, instead of their undermining.

Our educational system, from the schools to the universities, are actively undermining any sense of loyalty to the traditions, institutions and values of American society.

They are not giving back anything except condemnation, often depicting sins common to the human race around the world as peculiar evils of "our society."

A classic example is slavery, which is repeatedly drummed into our heads -- in the schools and in the media -- as something unique done by white people to black people in the United States.

The tragic fact is that, for thousands of years of recorded history, people of every race and color have been both slaves and enslavers.

The Europeans enslaved on the Barbary Coast of North Africa alone were far more numerous than all the Africans brought to the United States and to the 13 colonies from which it was formed.

What was unique about Western civilization was that it was the first civilization to turn against slavery, and that it stamped out slavery not only in its own societies but in other societies around the world during the era of Western imperialism.

That process took well over a century, because non-Western societies resisted. White people, as well as black people, were still being bought and sold as slaves, decades after the Emancipation Proclamation freed blacks in the United States.

Those who want to "give back" should give back the truth. It is a debt that is long overdue.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Thanks Dr. Sowell
If someone really wants to make a difference then do your job impeccably, be a better parent, or just obey the speed limit. Marching against global warming or demanding that corporations be more socially responsible doesn't do more than make perpetual adolescents feel righteous.

Hopefully Dr. Sowell will elaborate on the effects of great numbers of idle folk on other societies.

Another home run
As usual, Mr. Sowell knocks it out of the park.

Great message. Too bad we haven't figured out as a society that "if a man will not work, neither shall he eat" means pretty much exactly what it says...and we ignore those words to our own peril as a society. Whenever we fancy ourselves to be more compassionate than God, it is time for a reality check.

Dr. Sowell
Amen and amen.

Hijacked language
Dr. Sowell does well to point out how our language has been hijacked to make the actions of busy bodies sound noble. We even have come to the point of calling busy bodies "activists" or "stakeholders".

P*ssing In The Wind
While Dr. Sowell understands the reality of 'making a difference' the fantasy is what the vast majority of practitioners of the art are interested in. When what you want to have happen is the measure of your efforts then what really comes of what you do is irrelevant. Were you to tell that person handing out sandwiches and blankets to the homeless that their actions are actually enabling those people to remain unemployed and on the streets you would probably get a flash of anger and a lecture containing such words as mean, greedy, rich and of course Republican.

For many the act of 'giving back' is really about them and how they feel about themselves and not about the best way to 'make a difference'.

Spot On
I have been saying this for years! Not as eloquently as Dr. Sowell does here. When ever I hear the term "Giving Back" I go ballistic - so much so that my wife is tempted to leave the room. None-the-less its use or should I say gross miss use is more irritating than dragging your fingernails across a chalk board.

Add this!
Another screeching mindless mantra - "We need to move forward."

More often than not this implies "We need to push you backward, and force you to give back so that we can make a difference."


Another idiotic bromide
is the cry to vote for real "change." I have never understood how "change" for changes sake is a good thing.

Some other stupid sacred cows are "diversity, "multiculturalism," and "tolerance." (tolerance of evil is no virtue. It is cowardice.)

Another one for the woodpile
We may as well throw this mindless mantra on while we are at it.

"Let's stop the cycle of violence."

Lilly, Sophia
Where are you? We are overdue to hear Dr. Sowell is a stupid, mean-sprited, cold-hearted racist who delights in seeing the maximum amount of misery for the maximum number of people whose only mistake was being unlucky in being born in the hard-hearted US of A. Or could it be he is right when he says that doing more of what works and less of what doesn't work leads to better quality of life for all?

Hey, I just discovered something!
If you intersperse a few articles here and there among all these catch words and phrases (and toss in "social justice"), the Democratic Party and NEA platforms suddenly appear.

The true purpose
If the true purpose of taking pen and ink to paper is to cause one to think, Dr. Sowell deserves a place in the dictionary that defines it. That is a convoluted way of saying, great article

Sgt. Relic I see it like you do, illegal immigration has put the Mexican workforce in no better position than slaves. Constantly underpaid and used and abused in ways worse than Plantation owners that sometimes actually took better care of their slaves than these companies do their employees, but I suspect that isn’t exactly what you meant. I have expressed that view several places on Townhall.com but not sure where at the moment.

My last contribution was to the Army Emergency Relief. An organization that helps families with hardship primarily caused by overseas deployment in our defense. This may actually fall into the category of giving back to people that have given so much for our freedoms, even to those who have a mission to make American look like fools in the eyes of the world. For once in my lifetime, I think the world sees us better than we see ourselves and I lived through the turmoil of the 60’s, this is worse. It is worse because some of those people now hold high office and are determined to ruin our country in the name of “Making a difference”. The kind of difference they can make, we don’t need.

I am not going write a book this time, maybe enough said and leave the real writing to Dr. Sowell and others that do it so well.

You can always email me at barrym@tds.net, I am retired and don’t have a lot to do, except read very large volumes of history.

And another thing
This doesn’t necessarily qualify as mindless mantra, per se, but it is a close cousin.

The overemotional and immature way in which liberals attach horrific descriptives to people and policies with whom they disagree. I am talking about calling people Hitler, “Litle Eichmanns,” fascists, racists, Torquemada, or whatever, simply for holding a view or advocating a policy they disagree with. Nothing is too benign or trivial to unleash the torrent of Nazi, Inquisitional, Holocaustic, and McCarthyite (whatever that means) imagery.

One of the many ironies associated with liberals’ use of such overwrought langauage is that its speakers typically demonstrate complete ignorance of the factual history or lessons learned from the source of their clever tag lines. Because if they did, chances are they would be conservative.

PC
Great article! He is the best.
Years ago I wrote Sowell, Williams, and others an email concerning euphemistic PC that must be stopped if you ever want to win the argument. Whoever frames the the language wins the argument.

I will not let people use "liberal" or "progressive" unless they will admit that they are either a socialist or communist.
I will not let people use "pro choice" unless they admit they are for abortion.
Homosexuals may be "gay" but not all gay people are homosexuals. Let's use the term homosexual in our discussion. Needless to say that people that use these inane catch words or phrases will not carry on a reasonable conversation for long.

These PC catch words or phrases must be taken on as soon as they come out or they will stick and we start losing the argument.

Making a Difference
I agree with the poster who said that doing ones own job in a new and more effective way (or an old and more effective way, for that matter) is the best way of changing society. I brought up my boys with the three basic rules Daddy and Mama used on us: sit still; shut up; hands off. I also taught them to stand up when older people or superior officers enter the room, give their seats to ladies, watch their language and think carefully about what they hear. And hardest of all, I taught them to know how to be properly dressed for all occasions.

While it is impossible to force people to behave like civilized human beings, it is possible to force your children while they are under your roof to learn the basics of civilized behaviour. When they are older, they will no doubt have outbursts of droopy pants, teeny tank tops, pierced navels and purple hair; but if they have a big interview with an important person, they will know how to wear a suit and tie or a skirt and blazer, how to use a fork and a napkin, and how to speak politely.

A mother whose children can be taken anywhere without disrupting proceedings has Made A Difference in a way no Marching Mommy ever will.

As for giving money to the homeless, we discussed that thoroughly and then I left it up to the kids -- if they wanted to hand over their own money to a street person, or share their lunch, or speak a kind word, I said nothing against it.

Once again Dr. Sowell
misses the entire point. Wearing ribbons is far more effective, and I feel so superior.

more great Sowellian thought
that the moonbats just won't get. Too bad, because this sermon should go far beyond the choir.

Bee Movie
We took our granddaughter to see the Bee movie and half way through it I thought here we go. The Bee sues the honey industry for exploitation. Then something happened. Bees quit making honey quit polinating plants and the world goes to hell in a handbasket. You see the Bee and his airhead florist human friend wanted to make a difference and it didn't turn out the way they wanted. Go see the movie and take your kids and grandkids. It shows that there are reprocussions which extend past the immediate feel good impulse. Take a look at San Francisco and all the sanctuary cities across the US. Doing what felt good turned out to be a disaster in the long run.

5 stars, Dr. Sowell
Years ago I caught a sound bite of Carole Simpson, senior news correspondent now with ABC, making a speech to her journalism alma mater in which she claimed her motivation for going into the business was to "make a difference." The difference she's made is to manipulate raw news into something favorable to her personal bias (LIBERAL+++) and unfavorable to opposing ideologies.

Way to make a difference, Carole! You've bastardized journalism into something totally alien to what I learned in journalism class. Obviously they don't teach when, where, how, what and who anymore.

Whenever I hear that someone is going to "make a difference," I look around for someone who is actually making a difference to be attacked, like Rush Limbaugh or Fox News.

To quote another who really makes a difference, Mark Levin, "We must beat back the liberal hordes." Political correctness is going to kill us all.

A note of sanity
from Dr. Sowell, who always makes us take a moment and think things over. Words do have meanings, and it seems like there has been an overabundance lately of cute slogans.

Thanks also, AudiR10. Would that all the people who chant the slogans would also "spread ripples" by doing for their children what your parents did for you and what you have done for yours.

Want to make a difference?
1. Go into into the public sector and actually do your job well and with a smile.

2. Go to Hollywood and make a film about traditional values (families, hard work, truth, thrift, patriotism, integrity and justice).

3. Go into journalism and 'report' the news.

4. Quietly perform a simple act of community service each day...and do not tell everyone about it (like picking up two pieces of litter, helping an elderly person with anything, complement a stranger on a job well done).

5. Say a prayer of thanks for all that you are and all that you have achieved.

6+. up to you.

These acts cost nothing and will make a difference that will be noticeable.

Another annoying phrase . . .
The en vogue phrase that makes me cringe is "raising awareness." People don't say they want to wipe out x disease, social problem etc. rather they want to raise awareness about it. So nobody has to take action (other than, at most, participating in a candlelight vigil), they just have to be aware. How helpful.

audiR
You said it so well. How many people are out there "making a difference" while neglecting to teach their children how to be good citizens.

A breath of fresh air
Once again Dr. Sowell gives us a breath of fresh air to a society ripe with the decay of self lothing.

The Service Academies
Receive an appointment to one of the service academies and you will be indoctrinated with all the ideas that made our country great - and will be "giving back" in the form of military service to our country. I can assure you, you will not be filled with hatred for the great men and women that have gone before you.

acceptreality
Feelings, nothing more than feelings.......Mr. Reality has given us the song of the day.

From johng I would expand..
That the left has hijacked the meaning of these phrases and has made them the empty descriptors they are. They really only have meaning from a conservative perspective as writes acceptreality above. Maybe they just need to be challenged and re-defined when we hear them being used mindlessly.

Good Article Doc...as usual.

Sign of the Times
Displaying a “sense of loyalty to the traditions, institutions and values of American society” used to be commonplace, but this honorable trait appears to be quickly evaporating. One of our prominent presidential candidates refuses to display an American flag, refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, and even refuses to place his hand over his heart during this simple and modest act of patriotism. Yet, in today’s America, this is not even considered newsworthy by the MSM. How sad.

acceptreality song for the day is ...
Fine with me! Leave it to a Trulib to hijack good conservative words and attempt to define the title of said song...as said.

too many angels
use the term "giving back" or "making a difference"
for me to take this column seriously.

This is a rare throwaway from Sowell, too many
generalities and unrelated info (talk about a
stretch it turns out Sowell can do a split!) -
slavery in the Barbary Coast? What does this have
to do with the price of tea in China or people who
"give back" -
those darn Kiwanis, Shriners, and Oddfellows Members
you make me so mad with all your "making a
difference" and "giving back"!

Seems to me we could use more people like this.

And don't forget Jesus
wanted people to "make a difference" at least he
wouldn't be against feeding the homeless.

Jesus was a wave maker according to Sowell.

Dr Sowell
Irony here is that you write Common Sense which is singularly Uncommon.

This makes you an uncommonly great writer. Thanks again for your perspective. I love your columns.

To really make a difference...
...take this column and send it to as many friends and relatives you can; people who do not make a difference -- either way -- because of their obliviousness to the world around them. These people who don't want to know what is happening in the world around them (big or small) because they are totally self absorbed in their own actions, and, then when it is time to "make a difference in the voting booth" they only bother to pick up on all these catch phrases. IMHO this column is not just philosophical ramblings, IT IS A WAKE-UP CALL to our self absorbed society.

Spread THIS column (for few could ever write it better) far and wide. Wake this country up to its downward (as opposed to only leftward) spiral of indifference to actual actions.

This man is mentally ill
A poster mentioned this before, but I am really beginning to think that Dr. Sowell is mentally ill and that he needs serious help. There are some who say that those who make decisions based on pure emotion can be irrational. But I truly believe that some who make decisions on pure logic can lack compassion, are mentally disturbed and can lack pure human decency.

Sowell says this: "Making a difference makes sense only if you are convinced that you have mastered the subject at hand to the point where any difference you might make would be for the better.”

Ok, I might not know the complete solution to ending homelessness, and I might not know why and how every person on the street is homeless, but if a homeless person ask me for food or money, I might just give it to him (or her). I then pray that God brings them out of their situation and places them in a much healthier one. This is called common human decency. Clearly Sowell's "logical" thinking has drained him of this.

Then he says this: "Giving back" is a similarly mindless mantra."

Not for me. When I donate clothes to the goodwill, or when I have tutored poor inner city high school students, or given to the homeless, I didn’t consider it "mindless mantra". I considered it just giving back and helping my fellow downtrodden American. My next act of goodwill might be to raise money for Dr. Sowell so that he may see a psychological therapist for being devoid of any human emotion or common decency that most humans have.

See my latest
Parody that is pretty closely aligned with the mind-set of 'giving back.' i.e. TAXES

Giving back
Having worked in a social service agency, I think the idea of giving back should be expanded. With every welfare, disability, or needs check should come a note stating "What are you giving back to the community that has given this to you?" On every receipt given out at thrift stores should come the comment "What are you giving back to the community that has given this to you?" Every gas, telephone or electric bill that has been paid by a charity should come with the note "What are you giving back to the community that has given this to you?" Every food pantry should have a sign at the front door stating "What are you giving back to the community that has given this to you?" What the heck, I'd even send the note with the funds we give to other countries!


On the nose!
Just great. I think the prize for this mind set of "making a difference" has to go to the "global warming believers" who are adamant that believing is the whole key. No amount of conservative lifestyle is good enough, the key is believing. The most consumptive lifestyle is fine as long as they believe.

For further reading try
Faith of the Fallen by Terry Goodkind. He explores "making a difference" taken to it's logical end.

everyonesfacts writes:........
.....And don't forget Jesus
wanted people to "make a difference" at least he
wouldn't be against feeding the homeless.

Jesus was a wave maker according to Sowell.
--------------------------------------------------
Unless you're going to use Jesus in proper contexts, leave Him out of this discussion. I actually think you have no clue about Jesus. Remember, Jesus ALWAYS fed the peoples AFTER he had delivered his messages and because it was the timely thing to do (compassionate yes, but out of timeliness for his ACTION).

TBC :>(

He lies and contradicts his own work.
Here we go with the lies and distortions. Why would a man with a PHD contradict his own research?

He says this in his column:

"A classic example is slavery, which is repeatedly drummed into our heads -- in the schools and in the media -- as something unique done by white people to black people in the United States."

Funny, that's not what he said in his book "Race and Economics". He said American slavery was extremely unique:

Referring to American Slavery.

"The peculiar combinations of these features would be difficult, if not impossible to find elsewhere: 1.Slavery in a Democratic Nation; 2.slavery as the dominant feature of the entire southern economy: 3.Slavery where the local control was the dominant political way of life; 4.slavery under climate and soil conditions that promoted and permitted the most extreme form of slave driving; 5.slavery based on highly visible differences of race."

"Race and Economics" Thomas Sowell (pg 19 paragraph 1)

Sowell not only lies but he is truly a disturbed individual.

interesting
In some ways Sowell has dedicated much of his life to making a difference. Giving is important and all of us should try to make a difference at least in a small way when we can. Other than that, I wonder about the greater point here. Many here have brought it up in some good ways, but does that include protesting at abortion clinics or raising awareness of the brutal nature of abortion or participation it the annual Right to Life march?

Otherwise, what has any of this really have to do with slavery? To teach that we were the only ones or that we were the worst of the slavers is patently wrong. But to respond to any shortcoming with “other people did it too” or “yah, but they were worse” is equally wrong.

Gosh I thought it was a miracle...
but no, A pleasant morning of reading interesting comments was finally invaded by liberal spinmeisters.

Just for you: Charity if VOLUNTARY. There's nothing wrong with charity. The US is a very charitible country.

It is the ENFORCED charity in the form of confiscatory taxes, and the chicken littles of Big Government that say the sky is falling in order to promote those confiscatory taxes by beating the drum of guilt and condemnation that we have trouble with.

Individual actions and setting an example are more effective than all the sloganeering in the world. But, since slogans and bumper stickers are so attractive to the Left, here is my attempt to 'give back.'

I 'heart' self-reliance. I 'heart' conservativism. I 'heart' my carbon footprint.

PC language is terrorism.

Play fair
How is this nation ever to effect real, positive change if we don't give back and make a difference? We must embrace multiculturalism, diversity abd progressive ideas. We need fair wages, fair health care, fair taxes and above all, a fairness doctrine. It's all for the common good. Remember it takes a village to raise a village idiot.
Sincerely,
Hillary

Two Sides of the Same Coin
In the brave new world being engineered by the liberals, the coin of the realm consists on the one side of gauzy self-aggrandizing Goodspeak to describe their own motives, methods and objectives, while on the other the most vile and over-the-top verbal imagery conceivable to describe the motives, methods and ends of conservatives.

As for controlling the language used by the opposition, their solution is charmingly simple - just shut it down.

To the extent that the leftists have been able to transcend fact, history, human nature and reason through control of the popular language, they have been successful in implementing their un-democratic agenda. V.I. Lenin would be proud.

Tony Tommy
Please do not try to dissemble Sowell's words. Just because the American slavery situation displayed unique characteristics does not mean that slavery was not more pervasive throughout the rest of the world.

Anthony Thomas
I think you missed the point entirely.

The fact that you may give food or money to a homeless person may, in fact, be the decent thing for you to do and, in fact, I've done the same. However, this simple charitable act does absolutely nothing to resolve the issue of why the person is homeless in the first place. There's a world of difference between your singular act of charity (which is entirely noble) and an entire movement predicated upon "making a difference". Your act may have made a difference for the moment you performed it, but it did nothing in the long term.

Similarly, when you donate clothes to Goodwill or tutor children, you are not "giving back". You are simply "giving". If giving clothes to Goodwill is giving back, then the implication is that you took from Goodwill in the first place and are under an obligation to atone for your previous deeds.

True charity, which is what I think you were referring to, is freely giving what is yours, be it time, money, or material items, without any expectation of receiving anything in return.

This article did not have anything to do with individuals performing charitable acts, but rather how certain groups have hijacked language to fit their politcal goals. And, as Orwell pointed out, shaping language is the first step in shaping thought.

For starters
Anthony Thomas writes: Tuesday, November, 06, 2007 9:52 AM
This man is mentally ill
A poster mentioned this before, but I am really beginning to think that Dr. Sowell is mentally ill and that he needs serious help. There are some who say that those who make decisions based on pure emotion can be irrational. But I truly believe that some who make decisions on pure logic can lack compassion, are mentally disturbed and can lack pure human decency.
This opening paragraph displays an open minded philosophy how,exactly? (Read: ad homonym)
Additionally, if a "homeless" 16 year old girl begged from you on a street corner, would you simply buy her a sandwich?
Do the right thing and call the police.


This would make a great church sermon!
No, wait. This is exactly the opposite of what all Christian churches preach. Can you imagine a preacher asking the congregation to ignore the poor or the homeless because some of them may be idle or taking advantage of help? Weird.

Max Power


"I'm guessing here that you refer to #5. In this instance he was speaking strictly about the United States."

Nooo, Sowell is clearly stating that American Slavery was different from any other type of slavery in the world. The combinations of the features that he mentions makes it different. Obviously you should be able to see this. He then contradicts himself by saying there was nothing "unique" about American slavery. Well, it was unique, and he says so in his little book.

inthemajority
See my post at 10:16.

Anthony Thomas
I know you are smarter than your posts indicate.

That slavery was unique in its Character as practiced in the US is the point.

It was not unique as an institution.

Clearer?

The Ant
Anthony Thomas. Where in the world did you come out of the hole to light of day. I am in the process of reading all of Dr. Sowell's publshed works. One, you take and all encompassing reference to slavery world wide and proceed to refute it by an exception in a small segment and small period of time. Don't you have other mindless words to match your matching tirades?

Airgun
"Additionally, if a "homeless" 16 year old girl begged from you on a street corner, would you simply buy her a sandwich"


The problem with mentally ill people like Sowell is people like him refuse to understand that sometimes there are no absolutes! There is no one way to approach a particular situation like this. In the above situation, my decision would be based on how the girl physically looked, how she expressed herself to me, and what area the city I was in. It's very subjective.

Like it is
Inthemajority, this is exactly what Christianity preaches -- to tell it like it is, and as Jesus preached, to earn the pay which you contracted for, no more, no less. He preached charity and compassion, but never did he preach coercive financial policies, indeed he preached we shouldn't covet or be envious. Sowell is illuminative, and this truly would make a great sermon. Le'Chaim.

Nobility
"One, you take and all encompassing reference to slavery world wide and proceed to refute it by an exception in a small segment and small period of time"


What??????

I don't know what you are talking about, but Sowell contradicted himself, that was the point. He said there was nothing unique about American Slavery in this column, but that completely contradicts what he said in his book. Period

everyonesfacts - wishful thinking
Uh, what part of mulitplying loaves and fishes to feed a crowd a single meal versus feeding people for life who are otherwise capable of supporting themselves are you struggling with here?

What part the Jesus who inspired Paul to write "if a man will not work, neither shall he eat" are you struggling with here?

What part of Paul the tentmaker who labored so that he would not be a burden to any other man are you struggling with here?

What part of feeding orphans and widows versus feeding the lazy are you struggling with here?

What part of "consider the ant and her ways" from the book of Proverbs are you struggling with here?

Yeah, you folks just love to hijack the real Jesus for the socialist one of your dreams. Too bad He's nowhere to be found in the Bible. But sadly, he's found in way too many pulpits and democratic presidential campaigns.

IntheMajority
There is a difference between someone who is too sick to work and someone who would rather do drugs than work.

Subjective
I assume you meant "relative"; and yes,there is a difference between a girl asking for bus fare or a meal.
Of course you have to make exceptions, this is real life, but the point Dr. Sowell is making is aimed specifically at blind charity; the idea of buying a hungry person a sandwich is noble, therefore buying 100 sandwiches is 100 times as noble.
It feels good at the time, but rarely helps beyond the moment.

Tony Tommy
It is you that is mentally instable if you really think that the fundamentals of slavery were so different in the US, so as to nullify Dr. Sowell's contention. Illogical conclusions like yours would render any argument contradictory if fringe factors were considered as fundamental.

The salient facts are that one group of people captured and enslaved other humans for whatever reason. In this America was not unique nor was it as pervasive.

ex-infantry
"However, this simple charitable act does absolutely nothing to resolve the issue of why the person is homeless in the first place."

No, but it may (or may not) allow them to survive on the streets another day. It may also prevent them from starving until one day the issue that caused them to be homeless is resolved.

"There's a world of difference between your singular act of charity (which is entirely noble) and an entire movement predicated upon "making a difference".

What is this "entire movement" of "making a difference"? I didn't realize that I was apart of this mass conspiracy movement of "making a difference" by giving a homeless guy a quarter. Lol, lmao! Sowell is just a mean bitter old man who is slowly losing his grip on reality in each column that he writes. As I said earlier, mentally ill.


Indeed, let's talk Christ
If Sowell wants to ridicule those of us who act on the message of Christ (see Matth. 19:16-26, 25:31-46, and Luke 16:19-31), that’s his choice. But take up the argument with Jesus, not those who follow his direction. And the arguments aren’t so much about giving food but rather access to quality education and health care. One can work two jobs and not get either.

The right has no shortage of mindless mantras themselves. “Take back America” through things like fighting gay marriage (for Christ’s message on that, see a blank page). The right is also sadly lacking in the Attitude of Gratitude. Since they view their successes as purely their own effort, there’s little need for gratitude. That conflicts with Deuteronomy 8:

17 You may say to yourself, "My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me." 18 But remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today.

As someone who was educated from grade school to grad school by the State of California, I feel a sense of staggering debt to it. It would be hard to repay them too much. Therefore paying taxes never bothers me. That’s my duty as a citizen. I need to “Give back.” Ridicule it if you want.

Others had slaves too? How far would the argument that “others have abortions too” go?

acceptreality
"It is you that is mentally instable if you really think that the fundamentals of slavery were so different in the US, so as to nullify Dr. Sowell's contention"

HAHAHAHAH. He "nullifys" himself! Again referring to slavery in his book:

"The peculiar combinations of these features would be difficult, if not impossible to find elsewhere: 1.Slavery in a Democratic Nation; 2.slavery as the dominant feature of the entire southern economy: 3.Slavery where the local control was the dominant political way of life; 4.slavery under climate and soil conditions that promoted and permitted the most extreme form of slave driving; 5.slavery based on highly visible differences of race."

"Race And Economics" Thomas Sowell. (pg 19 1st paragraph)

Have you accepted reality?




making a difference
Do the terms "Great Society" or "War on Poverty"
ring any bells?
Isn't the socialist ideal to ensure that everyone is equal to everyone else in every way?

Misc. Good Quotes from Reviewer Postings
"Whenever we fancy ourselves to be more compassionate than God, it is time for a reality check."

"Dr. Sowell does well to point out how our language has been hijacked to make the actions of busybodies sound noble."

"The difference [Carole Simpson, senior news correspondent now with ABC] has made is to manipulate raw news into something favorable to her personal bias (LIBERAL+++) and unfavorable to opposing ideologies."

Giving Back
You make a difference by organizing. Everybody counts in an organization if they are pulling their weight. Sowell's argument is very elitist in this regard.

While it is true that those who know what's going on play a key role in guiding the organization, they can only make a difference with many others around them. Here, of course, I am talking about the efforts of ordinary people changing people's lives for the better, not the efforts of the wealthy who have the power and resources to command people into action for the sake of the system of profit making.

On giving back, as somebody who has written on economics, Sowell should know that things of value are not produced in isolation. They are made possible because of a community of producers. Anybody who has success will find that part of that success involves the deprivation of some other person.

A publisher, for example, generates income from not only the talent, but also from all those who make it possible for the talent's work to make it to press. If everybody in the process were paid according to the value they produced, there would be no profit for the publisher. Therefore, if the publisher gives back to the community, he is indeed giving back.

It is true that working people don't give back, however. This is because they are too busy giving up - guving up their family time, the value they produce, their creativity, their wages in taxes, etc.

Sowell is making a false assumption by saying that those who give back don't take. Those in a position to give back are the takers. And those who take who do give back often they do so to raise their status and assuage their guilt (those these individuals are few, since they have an ideology that does that for them).

Thank you, Dr. Sowell!
For telling an unpleasant truth. I have driven by the local free diner many times and have always wondered why there are so many cars in the parking lot--how many "poor" own cars?--and why those waiting in line are so well dressed. "If you build it, they will come."

Our local library has had a problem with bums (I refuse to call them homeless) parking themselves there. There is talk of moving the library--but as sure as shootin', the bums will follow the library.

If you build it, they will come.

Max power
Every one is well aware that slavery has existed across the world for thousands of years before Europeans got involved. But American Slavery was much different in its nature and brutality. You can't equate American Slavery to Latin American Slavery, or African Slavery or Arab slavery when they all varied in their approach and their degrees of brutality. He talks about all of this in his book. Did you actually read it? I did.

What part of "The peculiar combinations of these features would be difficult, if not impossible to find elsewhere” don’t you understand? A better question is why would Sowell equate American Slavery to any type of slavery (in this column) when he goes out of his way in his yes "little book", to explain their distinct differences? Intellectual dishonesty, a self hater and a mean deranged old man.

Anthony Thomas
Anthony Thomas is mentally ill!

Now, can't you see that making such a statement would say a lot more about ME than it does about YOU?

Anthony Thomas Does this help?
The way I see it Sowell was supporting his argument impugning our educational Institutions and using the way they teach the subject of American slavery as an example. Maybe to fast a transition...but in his words:

"Indeed, many who repeat the "giving back" mantra would sneer at any such notion as patriotism or any idea that the institutions and values of American society have accomplished worthy things and deserve their support, instead of their undermining.

"Our educational system, from the schools to the universities, are actively undermining any sense of loyalty to the traditions, institutions and values of American society."

" They are not giving back anything except condemnation, often depicting sins common to the human race around the world as peculiar evils of "our society."

"A classic example is slavery..."


Good Article
Dr. Sowell has another great column.

History Diva--I am in agreement. I have noticed lately our local bums have cell phones!! How in the he## do they have a cell phone? I don't have a cell phone. My mother is a librarian and her library had to get rid of these beautiful leather chairs(that were donated) because the bums kept defecating on them, and the director of the library refusees to allow security to move them along. This director also keeps the library open in blizzards (even when the rest of the city buildings are shut down) so that the bums will have somewhere to stay warm! These bums are not in the library to educate themselves in order to get a job, or learn how to read, or do anything of the kind (which is what the library is for, educating yourself). No, they are parasites who have taken the initial purpose of the library and turned it into a free house, just living in the building. Don't even get me started on the wave of VERY scary sexual harassment, stalking, and other junk the librarians have to put up with from these bums.

bones
"Anthony Thomas is mentally ill!
Now, can't you see that making such a statement would say a lot more about ME than it does about YOU?"

Not if it were true. If it were true, you would be considered accurate and perceptive. LOl.

It's no accident
It's no accident that Anthony Thomas continues to label Dr. Sowell as "mentally ill". This is a common tactic among Communists. Were Mr. Thomas "in charge" he would then assign Dr. Sowell to a re-education camp. Problem solved. Much easier than actually engaging in intellectual discourse.

BTW....what are your qualifications for making such a diagnosis? Are you sure you wouldn't rather just call him "Hitler" and be done woth it? No burden of proof required there!

Arguing With Liberals Is Self Abuse

Argue with Anthony Thomas at your own peril!!!

The writing down of disordered thinking and inanities has the benefit of being easily recognizable and one can merely reject it out of hand.

Spoken inanities, however, penetrate into the mind and must bounce around in there while a steady new stream of inanities also penetrate and demand recognition. Analysis must occur on the fly. Never listen to a liberal speak.

Dr Sowells's Articles
Give the PC police time and such articles as those written by Dr. Sowell will be considered heresy against the accepted dogma of mass stupidity found in liberalism.

What are we debating?
It seems to me that this is turning into a syntax debate. There is nothing wrong with giving but we shouldn’t be concerned with “making a difference”. So, if I go back to my old neighborhood to mentor young men, I am giving my time and effort – and it isn’t possible that I might actually make a difference in the lives of one the young men I mentor? If I give to a charity that is trying to fund research on MS, am I not attempting to make a difference in the lives that suffer from that disease?

To say that some things should not be readily available because some people will abuse them is a ridiculous statement. People will abuse almost anything. They abuse prescription drugs, tax codes, financial markets, student loans and yes, chartable organizations.

Ron
"Our educational system, from the schools to the universities, are actively undermining any sense of loyalty to the traditions, institutions and values of American society."

" They are not giving back anything except condemnation, often depicting sins common to the human race around the world as peculiar evils of "our society."


I don't know what Sowell is talking about or what schools he's talking about. Maybe he’s delusional I don’t know. But do you know how much I had to learn about the "greatness " of "Thomas Jefferson, "George Washington, "James Madison", "Alexander Hamilton" Benjamin Franklin" “Abraham Lincoln”; the bravery of America during the Revolutionary war ;the Civil War; WW2, the Korean war, etc , etc.

But when our schools teach that the United States treated the Native Americans badly, or that it treated blacks badly, or that it murdered innocent civilians during Vietnam, they're just giving the United States “condemnation" and “undermining any sense of loyalty to the traditions". Give me a break. Our education institutions are just giving us balance and the truth, as they should.

Again I'm Lost
Was does slavery have to do with any of this? I know Sowell mentioned it, but I couldn't get the connection.

No one here is against charities or volunteering, so are we not simply debating how those actions are defined?

I didn’t write either letter.
These two comments were Letters to The Editor, in the LA Times, in the early 1950s. “What makes you think doing something worthless, is better than doing nothing at all?”

This person didn’t like “Workfare” where he had to do menial jobs to get welfare money.

Another letter concerned an article that said how important it was to have a very good job, and be able to do what you like to do.

The respondent said he did not like to work, had no intention of working, so why didn’t those who like to work, just give him enough money to live, and they would both be happy doing what they liked best.

mean spirited Christians
This column lumped the poor into the category of lazy and shiftless who in turn have a sense of entitlement.

Tell me, please, were the poor of Christ's time poor because they were shiftless, lazy, and or black? Or, were they the "Politically Correct" poor of the religious right, the wannabe christians?

If you want to count your money while slamming do gooders, be my guest.

Max power
"You think that American slavery was different and more brutal than any other slavery??"

Yes I do, and if you do any research, history tells us this. Heck, Sowell tells us this in his book! Then he contradicts himself to pander to you folk. Hey whatever pays the rent.

"You think it was more brutal than what the Egyptians did to the Israelites"

Well this is only true if you are a Christian and believe the biblical account of things. There is no historical evidence to support that the Egyptians enslaved the Hebrews.

"Than how Africans enslaved each other?"

Yes I do.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761595445_2/Slavery_in_ Africa.html

Here's and excerpt because I know you probably won't read it. Although I hope you do.

"However, early African traditions of slavery appear more benign when compared to the institutionalized systems of slave trading that would develop later. As African states began providing slaves for export by Arabs or Europeans, slavery became much more central to the economies and politics of those states and more of a threat to Africans in general. "

And again, Sowell talks about all of this in his book.

Stop "Making a Difference"
Sowell presents his usual voice of intelligent reason and logic once again!

Cam
Instead of thanking the state for your wonderful education, go thank those who bought and paid for it.

Sophia
"We must acknowledge the shameful episodes in our history so they are not repeated."

Thank you, that's all I'm saying. We can't romanticize history just for our national self esteem if we hope to learn from history. This escapes many neocons.

mentally ill
Add this to the list of terms to be thrown away,
such as "Liberalism is a mental illness"

Yes, "family values" is another one. Do all people
who believe in "family values" have to attend the
Family Values Tour?

You can add these to the dumb names pile:
libtard, dhimmicrats, etc., etc.






American (US) slavery
was definitely better than Caribbean or Brazilian
slavery. Not on purpose or by intent but simply
because a sugar plantation is much harder, hotter,
and dangerous work than cotton, rice, and tobacco.

I think Max Power's argument is with Sowell not
Anthony Thomas if he didn't like what Sowell wrote
in his book and Thomas quoted him correctly.

And American slavery lasted longer than most other
legal slave systems - British, French, Dutch, etc.
but not Brazil. Although it probably would have
if plantation owners had not committed treason.

Anthony Thomas
Just trying to help here. When I read the column, before I read the comments, I understood Sowell to say that, while some aspects of American slavery were unique, the practice itself went on all over the world, both before and after we practiced it here. Evidently about 95% of the others understand that. How can you possibly think that those two statements contradict? They are not mutually exclusive. What is your logic, exactly? In your words, not Sowell's, please.

Some Truths Reinforced By This Article
With Liberals, it's all about feelings, not facts.

Charity is Voluntarily giving money to an individual or organization, money confiscated by The Government and given to others is Communism.

Conservative Blacks are subject to VILE RACISM from Liberals and they think it’s OK.

Its a childs world v an adult world
NevadaDad writes: 2:11 AM


Whenever we fancy ourselves to be more compassionate than God, it is time for a reality check.
----------
Not going to happen for the masses it appears, reality is the last thing many want to face.

Our society has become like children playing doctor, and words just allow the creation of an illusion from imaginations.


Just look at the results of most public policies verses the results they bring.

Instead of a reality check, more words of fantasy to continue the game playing is what is important to the public mind.

Great example is public education and all the lip service given this subject but the problems the present policies create, just get worse.

Like some coming on this thread to keep slavery going, and cry out for all to lament with them for the evils of it all,and never face the reality that slavery is going on around the present world unchecked and they ignore it to whine and cry for all to weep over the past.

The past that is dead and gone, as if crying over spilled milk is the only answer, and blaming everyone but the spiller of the milk to begin with.

Waaaa, waaaaaa, lets all cry and make it better.
Truely, these are the people among us today who are not adults but children playing word games.

Rachel Carson "made a difference."
Because of her false, alarmist screed on DDT tens of millions of Africans died.

This "mistake" of the left's past seems to have "escaped" Anthony Thomas and others.

Thirty years from now we will look back at Al Gore, who never took a hard science class in college, yet somehow thinks he meets Sowell's test of having "...mastered the subject at hand to the point where any difference you might make would be for the better."

Thanks to Gore and others who want to "make a difference," we are now burning food for fuel, which has increased hunger and caused civil disturbances, and we are aritificially increasing the cost of energy, which reduces our ability to deal with life's other challenges.

The same libs who (falsely) claim that one in five children in this country go to bed hungry want us to burn food instead of crude. The same libs who complain that health insurance is too epensive want us to spend ever more on energy so we will be less able to afford health care.

But it got Gore an Oscar and a Nobel Prize, so I guess future socialists will ignore the evidence of all the harm the AGW scare brings us, the same way today's left continues to ignore the malaria plague that has killed tens of millions of Africans in the 30+ years that DDT was foolishly banned.

Not Neocon
Neocon should be kept as long as people like
Irving Kristol and others want to have that moniker.

But, of course, it is wrong to call people Neocons
who aren't.

Chickenhawk and Warpublican can be set aflame.

talent scout
You might appreciate my latest parody. It is called 'Lib'ruls'....some of your comments strike a chord.

Sophia
Why is it that you believe that the Republicans/Conservatives don't recognize problems in our society? Why do you think they don't care as much as you do?

The issue is not whether we care, we do.

The issue is not that we don't see the problems, we do.

The issue is that we disagree on how to correct the problem.

History shows that being enablers perpetuates, indeed it grows, the problem.

Lots of you are quick to add yet another excuse for why someone is having a hard time in life...any excuse will do, and there are enough excuses out there now that there is zero incentive to try to elevate yourself.

Victimization is popular. Victimization is supported by the left.

We just would prefer to help REAL victims, not those who have a few disadvantages to overcome. The human condition is like that. We all have our cross to bear (sorry for the Christian allusion...don't be offended).

You can either wallow in the mud with them and add more water so the mud is deeper, or you can find a way to encourage the victims to leave the mud.

We just disagree on how to achieve that. Feeling empathy is not enough.

Control of the Language
Get a grip, Sophie - there are a lot of folks who don't CARE how angry you are. Please read Walter Williams' article on how to react when others DON'T CARE. Poor widdle baby, are your feeling hurt?

And to all the libs: we'll make this simple -

When a person contributes the fruits of their OWN labors (money, real effort, ACTION, etc...) THAT is charity and laudable. See a volunteer firefighter, for example.

When a person (tries to) contribute the fruits of someone elses' labors (see above) they are nothing but a common thief and a phony. FEELINGS DON'T COUNT.

Is that simple enough for you, anthony? No race, no gender, no age, no nationality, no religion, a simple definition.

And if Dr. Sowell is mentally ill, I hope I get some of that mental illness. A Man is measured by his enemies as well as his friends.

This shows exactly what I was
Talking about.
This is one of the children who come to play word games and will use words to create the atmosphere for playing doctor.
-------------

sophia writes: 1:01 PM
Talent Scout-
What are you doing here?

Don't you have some bible thumping to do somewhere?

I think there may be a few vengeful, angry bible quotes you HAVEN'T found yet!

Pharoh kicked your butt last night! LOL!
----------

Never felt a thing my little sweetie pie.
But do not allow anything I might say to keep you from your love for imaginations and game playing.

I played with you a little yesterday but got burned out with the game playing you love so much.

Can you not step it up a new level?

Or just here to whine and cry for all to cry with you?

Back to the article
The Jesus point is give him a fish AND teach him
how to fish. Both.


RE: Max Powers
Ok... So, if a man does not know how to fish should we assume that he is lazy and not bother? When someone walks into a homeless shelter should they be interviewed to determine how they got to be there before help is provided?

When a person gives, they give with the understanding that not every person may be worthy of such. But you can't close a homeless shelter because some there are lazy because there are a lot of people that need help due to disabilities,illness, econimics, abuse, drugs, mental illness and many more.

So, I submit to you that there is no basis for the article except to engage in a sophmoric diatribe over syntax and slogans.

There are times when teaching a man to fish may require feeding him first.

On slavery: I have really gotten tired of this debate. Slavery in whatever form is horrible. If it makes you feel better about being an American to say "American slavery wasn't unique" then you should probably evaluate from where you American pride is derived.

Mr. Sowell calls for...
some common sense in his article.

Bottom line at least for me is that America is wonderful, and I think the most wonderful place on earth to live.

Have Americans always done everything right, NO. Have Americans tried to correct the mistakes that have been made, YES and they still do.

The fact is that every American Citizen lives under a brilliant Constitution, granting freedom that people in other parts of the world can only dream of.

Do I have issues that are important to me, YES. I know that I have the freedom to express my opinion and work within the system of government to implement or/not the things that are close to my heart.

When we as a people allow ourselves to be controlled by our elected representatives, many of whom are career politicians, in the very personal and most private parts of our lives, we play into their hands by handing them powers that are unreasonable.

Controlling my own destiny, earning my own living, enjoying the fruit of my labors and deciding for myself which charities are the most worthy are freedoms that I value highly.

Trusting power addicted politicians to decide these things for me is unreasonable and unconstitutional.

The most scary thing for me are people who willingly give up personal freedom for the sole purpose of controlling and curtailing the freedom of those that they don't agree with.


No sophie, my dear one
You most certainly do not think
--------


Nevada Dad:
"Whenever we fancy ourselves to be more compassionate than God, it is time for a reality check.
----------

ts:
Not going to happen for the masses it appears, reality is the last thing many want to face.
----------
sophia writes: 1:09 PM

I thought your God was angry, vengeful, and to be feared?

And if history is dead, so is your bible
-----------

Too bad you do not think, you love games to much to think

Wiseone
It's the red state farmers that are "burning food for fuel." The World Health Organization is also squarely in support of fighting global warming.

I nominate "values voters" as the most abused catch phrase of conservatives. "Values" now means supporting torture and opposing health care for kids (even after you're offered every provision you asked for).

jimmyshoe
writes: Tuesday, November, 06, 2007 1:19 PM
RE: Max Powers
Ok... So, if a man does not know how to fish should we assume that he is lazy and not bother? When someone walks into a homeless shelter should they be interviewed to determine how they got to be there before help is provided?
===================
So, why would it be a bad thing to screen those who come in? How would you feel about someone who is just taking advantage of a free lunch that is in essence taking food out of the mouths of those who truly DO need it?

It is obvious that many homeless people (I'll use the PC term) exploit the good will of others.

They still need to learn to fish, just not at the public trough.

I will go read it
Mrs. Paddy writes: 1:00 PM
talent scout
You might appreciate my latest parody. It is called 'Lib'ruls'....some of your comments strike a chord
---------

Nothing I could wish more for than a return to the real world word use for the children like Anthony and sophie.
Just not possible for them, as they use words for games, and they actually believe everyone else is playing along with them.

Reality is the only thing that will wake them up to the real world when it slaps them up side the head, their darkened mind believes their self deception they are smart.
But dumber than a box of rocks

Anthony T.
Well I see it took you a while but you eventually got around to calling Dr. Sowell a "self hater." Never have you ever explained what makes him or any other African American columnist or conservative in general a self hater. Please explain this to me.

As for the point of the column (which is very good), it's pretty straight forward. Semantics are all too often used for political means and to couch certain issues for political gain. Sowell cites two examples. "Giving back" is a perfect example....giving back would imply an obligation based on receiving something that was given to them. GIVING to charity, in nearly all cases is not "giving back." I like to think that those of us who make our own way in life aren't given ANYTHING. It is EARNED. Period. If we then choose to give to others....that's great and should be encouraged.

But folks like John Edwards that preach "giving back" are talking about STEALING from the producers and redistributing the fruits of their labor. This is not giving back. It's STEALING!

Lets all cool down.
We need to stop this cycle of violence and give back for social justice so that we can make a difference by moving forward and raise awareness to vote for real change.



What did I just say????

To Sowell: "Stop Making Sense!"
Take me to the river...

Drop me in the water...!

One quasi-quibble worth mentioning: when I feed the homeless, I promise -- PROMISE -- not to congratulate myself on anything related to this act.

sophia writes:
I lived in a beach community in San Diego for over 10 years with a huge homeless population. Many were drunks or addicts or just plain bums. A HUGE number of them however had severe mental issues - they are not about to go out and get a job even if you buy them a suit!


And you can than the ACLU for many of those mentally ill homeless found on the beach. Sems as though that organization sued to stop involuntary commitment, saying it was a violation of their rights, and the courts agreed. Thus many mentally ill were released into the world. Many of these refuse to takethe "free" medicines or receive the "free" treatment many cities and states offer. So what do you do?

Cam,
“But take up the argument with Jesus, not those who follow his direction. And the arguments aren’t so much about giving food but rather access to quality education and health care. One can work two jobs and not get either.”

And one can stay home and get both. What is your point?
Deuteronomy 8 seems to support many conservative Christians I know. I thank God constantly for the gifts He has given me. Why must I also say a prayer of thanks to the great bureaucracy of state liberalism?

“As someone who was educated from grade school to grad school by the State of California, I feel a sense of staggering debt to it. It would be hard to repay them too much. Therefore paying taxes never bothers me. That’s my duty as a citizen. I need to “Give back.”

Believe me, you repaid that with your FIRST tax check. They owe you.

To be clear
I never intended to turn this into an entire conversation about slavery or American morality. I merely wanted to point out how psychologically disturbed Dr. Sowell is, and that his "logic" and "reason” prevent him from being a decent human being. There is no mass conspiracy movement, language, or ideology, to "make a difference", lol. For Sowell to insinuate that there is one is bizarre and troubling to me.

I only discussed slavery because I noticed he contradicted himself on this subject in an attempt to pander to his necon base and heritage employer. He also attempts to justify and universalize something that happened distinctly in America. That of course, is American Slavery.

I will never allow someone like Sowell or anyone else for that matter to distort African American history for their own ideological purposes or for his own self hatred.

Sophia
I really don't want to get into a Christian/anti-Christian debate with you because the chasm is deep and wide between what is legitimate concerns on the part of Christians and what are not.

Using a broad brush to paint all Christians as identical is just as bad as any other broad generalization.

For example: I have a problem when Christian symbols are removed from public (and private) places because they might 'offend' someone. I have a problem with removing Christmas carols from school programs because of some bastardization of the 'separation of church and state' mantra.

By the same token, if you want to call Phelps and his group 'Christians' then I have to part company. He and his filthy band of hate-mongers make me more angry than the terrorists. Why? Because they claim to represent my God, and they turn people away from God due to their hate and twisting of scripture.

At least the terrorists believe in a vengeful and capricious Allah that will reward their martyrdom. They are not maligning their concept of Allah when they do that.

Phelps and his ilk claim to know my loving and sacrificial God and that they can speak hatred and condemnation on his behalf. They are scum and I was delighted that they lost in court to the military dad that sued them.

So, don't play the Chritianity card with me. There isn't enough room to cover it.

Giving back the truth
Unfortunately, the noe-marxists that comprise the majority of today's democrat party will never tell the truth. To do so would reveal their agenda, and they know that they can't effect total political control and socialism if their constituency knew their intentions. They get away with insulting the intelligence of their constituents on a daily basis because those constituents prove their intellectual vacuity by voting for them.

Words of Gold, framed in Silver
Mrs Paddy writes:

Lib'ruls
People who are lib'ruls
Are the silliest people in the world
They're children, whining, crying children
Never trying to be adult
They'd rather pout and sulk
Acting just like numbskulls
Those lib'ruls.

Lib'ruls are just emoting people
They think all the world's problems
Started here.
Then they tell you, the solution is to tax you
Just see your paycheck and laugh
Once it was whole
Now it's half
You may hunger and thirst
But first pay the government your taxes
They just ignore the fact is
They fund the most wasteful programs
In the world!

They'll tell you brother, why don't you share with others?
Just see your paycheck and laugh
Once it was whole
Now it's half
For whatever it's worth
No mirth to be found among the lib'ruls

Oh those silly lib'ruls
Funding all their pet programs
With our dough!
-----------

All of us who have raised children can see how our institutions of "higher" learning have become a production line for cry babies wailing give give give, daddy daddy I want it!

God help us

Again
“It's the red state farmers that are "burning food for fuel." The World Health Organization is also squarely in support of fighting global warming.”

What does the WHO have to do with who the “red state farmers” sell their product to? That WHO has bought into the scam is no great endorsement.

“"Values" now means supporting torture and opposing health care for kids”

Would you care to define torture? Do you realize that we have followed the Geneva Conventions?
“Health care for the kids” “Education for the kids” “It’s for the Chilllllldren”
What about MY children? When you take money from me, you reduce my ability to provide for MY children. When you put a gun to my head to take my money, it’s robbery. When you force me to work for other people it’s slavery.

talent scout
Gee, thanks for helping to spread my parodies, but please ...with apologies to Jule Styne (music) and Lyricist: Bob Merrill (original artists)

Dr. Sowell's writings are salve for the
brain. We are constantly suffering from contusions and lacerations inflicted by too much liberal irrationality and nannyism. Dr. Sowell's words keep us from being permanately brain damaged from all this abuse.

Sophia
You write

"Many of those have had quite alot "given" to them by their parents: quality education, college tuition, resources etc... while others who are not so lucky have had little 'given' to them..."


Are you kidding me? LUCK has got nothing to do with it. A parent's role is to provide for their family. Let me get this straight...because my parents sacrificed and worked hard to provide me with a better life than they had, that somehow obligates me to "give back?" Huh? My role as a new parent is to provide for my family through MY hard work and sacrifice. Period. If, after that, I am in a position to give to charity...I certainly will do it. That's not giving back. That's giving. That's Sowell's point.

I'll tell you what, ask anyone who really works for a living.....what they're "given."


For Cam
"It's the red state farmers that are "burning food for fuel." The World Health Organization is also squarely in support of fighting global warming."

"Red state farmers" aren't necessarily Republicans or conservatives just because they live in "red states". More importantly, they wouldn't be burning food if the gov't hadn't rigged the free market so that ethanol could compete with gasoline made from crude. The gov't has subsidized the crops used to make fuel from food while taxing gasoline and forbidding the oil companies from mining domestic sources of oil, which has had the effect of driving up the price of gasoline made from crude.

The World Health Organization is a hard left group of international socialists. You might as well bring up Kyoto again, which was passed by a vote of 120-7, with the US (under Clinto and Gore) voting in opposition to it. Clinton never presented it to the Senate for ratification. He never even signed it until December 31 of 2000, three weeks before he left office so it would be a political problem for Bush. The Senate voted 95-0 against it in a non-binding resolution in 1997.

The WHO favors Kyoto too, but your heroes on the left opposed it when the ill effects of it would have been blamed on them if they passed it.

Get a clue.

Sophia
Re-read my post. Christians are under attack when Christian themed music is banned from Christmas concerts, Crosses (San Diego)asked to be removed (and displays of the 10 commandments)ARE removed from public view etc.

In the meantime, we are accomodating foot baths in airports (Minn) and the like.

Watch the outrage (or lack thereof) regarding the in-your-face challenges in churches (see San Francisco).

So, to be ahead of the season a little, "Merry Christmas!"

Lifestyle in Africa, vs the US
Not for one moment would I say that slavery in the US or anywhere else is a fine way to live. But just for the moment, think about the Blacks in the US who are descendants of Blacks who were slaves.

I know books by the hundreds must have been written about this subject, but I haven’t read one. So consider the culture and the way of life of a Black in even a poor part of a a city in the US, with the culture and style of living of many of the Blacks in Africa.

Again, I don’t say being a slave for a generation or two would make it worth while, but consider the lifestyle of the two groups of people.

I am sure that many blacks in Africa live a nice lifestyle, but millions live in much the same manner as Blacks lived hundreds of years ago.

Wouldn’t be nice to gather up all the Hip-Hop generation, the street gangs, the school ager’s who won’t study, send them “home” and see how they like it.

And if you respond to this, please keep on the subject I raised.

Anthony Thomas writes:
I only discussed slavery because I noticed he contradicted himself on this subject in an attempt to pander to his necon base and heritage employer. He also attempts to justify and universalize something that happened distinctly in America. That of course, is American Slavery.

I will never allow someone like Sowell or anyone else for that matter to distort African American history for their own ideological purposes or for his own self hatred.

Exactly how does Dr. Sowell distort African-American history in this essay? How was American slavery any different than slavery anywhere or any time else?

What you are saying is that you will not permit -anyone to distort your version of African-American.

Sophia
Persecution is a loaded word, btw.

I get a newsletter called Voice of the Martyrs that details REAL Christian persecution.

I think it is a slippery slope, though, when our rights to religious expression are continually chipped away by the easily-offended crowd.

Anthony Thomas
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder the size of a sequoia.

I've read quite a few of your posts.

You also seem to seek to emulate some famous grudge holders. The Irish,the Sicilians,the Hatfields and MCoys?
Very distubing!

Like I told you yeaterday
You asked the right man, I know where the answer is, not my own answer, but the answer given by the Creator.

--------------

sophia writes: 2:09 PM
OK Talent Scout
I am starting to feel jealous...you sound like such a happy and kind person...

Will you teach me the true spirit of Christian compassion?

All the love thy enemy and treat your neighbor stuff?

You seem like such an expert..
---------------
I am very happy, I am also kind.
And I am for real, and nothing of this has come from anything I have from my own abilities or smarts.
Just smart enough to believe the Master knows best, and that I found is simple.

Here:
Matthew 7:12
Whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even to them.


Simple, direct and mouth stopping wisdom of God.
Respect it, it will turn and hand you and all who listen a blessing and not a curse if you want to mock it.




wiseone gets it all wrong
"Because of her false, alarmist screed on DDT tens of millions of Africans died." == False statement. There is still a real debate on the use of DDT, the amounts used, and the future use, but your statement is nothing but false.

DDT is still used in many countries, but Carson and others are not the reason much of Africa had a problem. DDT was not as effective in sub-Saharan Africa, and I don't believe it has been banned there, just like it has not been banned from many countries, mostly poor. Then and now the bans of DDT in other locations could not be blamed for deaths in Africa.

DDT/malaria is a lot like our current antibiotics/MRSA problem. Antibiotics have been nothing less than an incredible discovery, but taken to an extreme causes problems and resistant strains. DDT-resistant mosquitos were found rather quickly.

DDT lost effectiveness in many areas, so why bother spraying a pollutant in those areas when it did not help as much? Sometimes the benefits outweigh the risks, but Carson was correct about the long-term effects and many of the short-term effects. Birds in particular were harmed.

It is amazing that so many people get science wrong when there is so much evidence. It is even worse when talking points keep people from even bothering with Google searches.

If you want to see what man can do to a country when there are no environmentalists like Carson and their "screeds", then try living in Taiwan or China for a year.

The "mentally ill"
When leftists like Anthony Thomas say someone is mentally ill, as he posted earlier today with regards to Sowell, you have to understand his definition of mental illness.

In "Mad Anthony's" mind, Dr. Sowell is "mentally ill" in the same way the Soviets considered Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn mentally ill. Which is to say their opinions were considered a threat to their worldview and perceived interests.

Sophia
If you will note...I didn't say all Muslims, I said terrorists. That being said:

On your above post you are, sadly, mistaken.

You need to educate yourself on the Koran and the Islamic doctrine of abrogation (naskh).

Read up a little. It's even more dangerous to cherry-pick individual verses from the Koran than it is to do likewise from the Bible.

Anthony Thomas
Enablement is never charitable and when you give money to someone standing on a street corner asking for it, you're enabling them to continue their destructive lifestyle choices.

I have bought food for people who said they were hungry. I've given them wood nickles for the Food Bank. I've given them a ride to the local goodwill for clothing. I've told them where the local Rescue Mission is and the best way to get there. However, I refuse to enable people.

Most of our local "homeless and poor" organizations are part of a consortium of churches. Fortunately, the conservative churches outweigh the more liberal churches and have written the mission statements and SOPs for these organizations so that enablement is kept to a minimum. You have to work if you want to stay at the Rescue Mission and if you want to stay for more than a couple of days, you have to attend programming designed to get you off the streets permanently. The Food Bank only gives so many boxes before you have to attend similar programming to help you manage your budget and improve your work skills. Ditto the goodwill.

When you give money to someone standing on the street, Anthony, they take that money and go buy drugs -- alcohol, pot, cigarettes, etc. -- and they continue their poor lifestyle choices that put them on the street in the first place. You are NOT helping anyone when you do that! Charity should result in an improved condition, not enablement to continue a lousy condition.

Sophia
With all due respect, you need to open your eyes. Heck...right on this site. I refer you to posters like Knight of Bawaa and his ilk.

You may think that there are not restrictions on Christians, however, you still have not addressed why it is okay to suppress our freedom of expression.

Singing a Christmas carol (which by the way is religious in nature...hence the name CHRISTmas) at a school even is not going to warp anyone's mind. However, pornography (even CHILD porn)is protected speech. Address that, will you?

You seem to think that as long as we Christians go underground and don't bother anybody with our beliefs that that is fine and dandy.

It's not. You don't like it, don't listen. The vast majority of Christians are not out to convert you at the point of a sword. Can't say the same thing about Muslims.

inthemajority
"...Carson and others are not the reason much of Africa had a problem."

Right. And Gorbachev ended the Cold War.

Thanks for being a perfect example of the first point of my first post.

double standards
Redhead: Why is a budget allocation decided through a democratic process confiscation when the money goes to education or health care but just OK when it goes to an obsolete weapons system or a bridge to nowhere?

Wiseone: Yes, the Democratic legislators blew it on Kyoto originally but they've since seen the light.

Killing us (softly), with that 'S' word
Inspired by religious doctrine - or by feel-good liberal atheists - selflessness occupies a great deal of our attention.

Somewhere in America:

- A moist-eyed politician with a quivering lip (but impeccably coiffed hair) conjures up visions of starving or homeless people somewhere in the world

- a charismatic and telegenic preacher speaks with great conviction of our duty to help our less affluent fellow men

- presidential candidates speak of 'public service' in altruistic terms while indulging in shameless self-promotion

- admission committees at major universities consider the spirit of 'progressive volunteerism' as an important attribute in their applicants; in some cases, this can be as important as the applicant's academic record

- our political process is tilting Leftward, with each new entitlement as a stepping stone towards others. Failure of past entitlement programs is not an obstacle - as long as our intentions are 'selfless'.

- inefficient 'non-profit' ventures are placed on a pedestal, while it has become common to impugn the motives of 'for-profit' ventures; e.g Public Schools vs Private Schools

- there is a disproportionate sense of upliftment in the fake smarminess of 'donations', 'volunteerism' and 'not-for-profit'. Not that those actions are bad, but they certainly don't accomplish as much as 'for-profit' ventures. Observe that non-profit ventures would fail but for the contributions of people whose incomes are tied to for-profit ventures.

Instead of relying upon (and demanding) professionalism and competence, we are becoming a nation of parasites and willing victims.

What is killing us (softly), is the "S" word ..

S E L F L E S S N E S S

Sophia
Read up about abrogation yet?

Gonna address my question, or are you determined to avoid it?

RE: Mrs. Paddy
Give a Man a Fish

Mrs Paddy, if a man rolls into a hospital with gunshot wounds, do we screen him to see if he was a gang banger or criminal and was shot doing something illegal? No, we fix the wound then hope that the experience motivates him to change.

If a man is hungry for whatever reason, and I feed him and along the way explain to him how and what he can do to feed himself, then I am simply offering charity. What criteria would you use to turn people away? An addict gets turned away? What about an able woman who ends up in a shelter upon leaving an abusive relationship? The goal of a charity is to assist the downtrodden with whatever condition that afflicts them. Every charitable contact is an opportunity to “make a difference”.

When I work at a shelter my objective is let them know that someone cares about them, but there are things they need to do – starting with caring about themselves. Some get there – many don’t. I’m not sure what you mean by public trough because the shelters I know of are operated by private organizations.

aurorawatcher
"When you give money to someone standing on the street, Anthony, they take that money and go buy drugs -- alcohol, pot, cigarettes, etc. -- and they continue their poor lifestyle choices that put them on the street in the first place."

Wow, what planet do you live on? You can't make this complete generalization about people who live on the street. Not every one of them are there because of drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and the like.

Some kids run away from abusive, drug addictive homes. Some people generally fall on hard times and do not have anyone to depend on in a time of need. Guess what? Some are even our former military men who suffered from post traumatic stress syndrome after defending our country in war. How dare you generalize a group of people like that?

sophia writes:
You wouldn't like it if they started singing Ramadan songs would you?

Actually in some schools, esp. in California, students are required to wear Muslinm garb, say Muslim prayers, and eat halal food while studying a unit on Islam. there are no similar requirements for the units on Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism or Buddhism.

Speaking about "Mental Illness"
... there has been much "ad hominem" idle talk that is irrelevant.

Dr. Sowell's point is well taken. I'll give two examples of my own "making a difference." There is a drug addict at my corner whom I's given spare change, and her physical condition has only deteriorated, mainly due to drugs. My charity is misplaced, as it would be to my university, which is a Sunday School for political correctness.

I would qualify Sowell's point, and be in agreement with Christian teaching, and say that there are those, who, by no fault of their own, through physical or mental handicap or illness, or who are poor and caring for such, necessesarily require the charity of those who can help. Thus charitable foundations that support these people, and even government (that's welfare) support for physically and mentally disabled is a benefit and not a drain on the common good.

Killing us (softly) - contd.
What is killing us (softly), is the "S" word ..

S E L F L E S S N E S S

Conversely, it is true that the word 'selfish' can be mis-construed.

But there appears to be no other way to describe it. Also, think of the way in which 'selflessness' is mis-construed on a regular basis:

* it has become perverted into the ideological basis of Leftist rationale for Welfare, Public Education

I'm familiar with the point-of-view that personal selflessness is 'good' while the enforcement of 'public' selflessness is 'evil'.

But that distinction is just not enough. We have become predisposed to accept all forms of selflessness (real or imaginary) as a political and economic trump card.

As a result:
* non-profit proposals get more public support than profit-oriented proposals
* selfless-sounding (but unworkable) policies become the law of the land; e.g. Public Education, Welfare, Universal Health Care
* foreign policy based on American self-interest becomes watered down into 'saving' other nations

And, in the end ..
* socialism will replace capitalism in America

If you think that is a stretch, wait until Nov '08

anthony's selective reading
One thing that Anthony Thomas "forgets" to quote from Dr. Sowell's book is that America was the last stop on the slave delivery route, and the farthest that slaves were transported (both in terms of distance and cost) and that the american owners had a vested interest in keeping slaves alive. That's why there was a much higher survival rate amongst american slaves (the replacement cost being high), which is one of the distinctive things about american slavery.

Killing us (softly) - more
I believe that humans are selfish - but have been conditioned to feel guilty about such emotions by our culture's fascination with altruism. We therefore fall prey to anyone else (a politician, for example) who professes to actually adhere to those 'finer feelings' that we know we lack.

And that is the double-fraud of selflessness. It is inconsistent with human beings, but we are 'suppposed' to feel guilty if we lack that quality.

Because, in order to believe in selflessness, we have to defraud ourselves into believing that:

1) Selflessness is a virtue
2) Humans are selfless creatures

If the above statements were true, then Communism would've succeeded. It didn't!

Religious people (and socialists) preach one form or another of selflessness as a panacea. It is worth thinking, however, could it be that we just aren't 'selfish' enough?

I realize that it is the prevailing fashion for people to put selflessness on a pedestal. Most of the teachings of organized religion also praise selflessness - in fact, without that concept, there wouldn't be much organization in organized religion.

But, is it possible that we are actually drowning in an orgy of selflessness? Consider that selflessness is the 'enabling agent', the gateway to:

* the welfare state
* multiculturism
* socialism
* affirmative action

Consider some of the most selfish actions that a human being can commit (and I'm guilty of them all):

* getting an education
* working to improve one's own life
* creating one's own biological children
* putting one's family first

By my definition, a male (or female) who abandons his/her biological children is truly selfless! It is an inversion of our morality (and language) that defines such actions as selfish.

This isn't just a linguistic or semantic interpretation. The 'selfless' mindset is what gives moral permission for people to abdicate their own responsibilities.

"Conherant"
Sophie - As a college graduate you should recognize a general statement as opposed to a specific one. You should also be able to recognize the focus of the statement as one contributing the fruits of ones own **actions** as opposed to feelings.
Have I made it simple enough for you? Is this sufficient clarification?

Sophia
Thanks for actually answering my question. I figured you'd think it was fine to suppress some of the most beautiful music ever written in the name of secularism.

As far as Ramadan songs, I'm not sure they have any. Besides, we don't celebrate Ramadan as a national holiday here, so I think the argument is moot. Ramadan falls on different months each year as their calendar is different than ours.

I don't have issues with Kwanzaa songs (a made-up holiday, btw) nor Jewish songs about Hanukah etc.

Why don't we abandon Christmas holidays then?

That would be secular.

We should likewise abandon Thanksgiving, as it was originally set aside as a day to Thank God for his bounty and help.

Let's do away with Spring holidays too, as they were instituted to allow students to celebrate Easter with their families....oh horror, it's another Christian holiday!!!

If it is okay to abandon traditional songs because all of a sudden being Christian is suspect, then we might as well throw all our traditions out the window.

Suckered me, actually thought you
Had displayed an ounce of sincerity, will not happen again.
-------------


sophia writes: 2:44 PM
Thanks Max
I do need to update my Thomas Paine reading (studied it some in college)....
-----------
ts:
By all means, follow that mans teaching.
You can find where it leads if you and others will read where it got him in the end of it all.
Very unpleasant end came for that poor foolish man.
-------------
sophia writes:
Frankly,

If any words that come out of Scout's mouth have anything to do with God, I am VERY happy to be an agnositic...(not from this thread so much as others, he's relatively mellow today)
----------
ts:
Enjoy while it lasts
Paine had his moment of time to make his choice too.
Sad to see such a Patriot end the way he did, and an enemy of all the other Patriots and the Founders themselves, which Paine was not one.
--------
sophia writes:
Luckily I do know that Scout's nastiness does not represent the majority of christians...

----------
ts:
Your own nastiness is sufficent reward for your own future, sweetie.
It will give you back in mountains what you give to it in pebbles.
Like He said
You reap what you sow

If people think the Words of Jesus Christ are nasty, when the deeds are done He spoke of to come, you will wish not to have been born.

I take it as the blessing of God to be reviled from genuine little twits as you are.



jimmyshoe
I wasn't trying to conflate the argument to hospital care, nor should you.

If folks partaking of soup kitchens are walking around with a cell phone and have an automobile then I guess I would question their need for a free meal. That's all.

Besides, if you don't determine why they are there and what their needs are, I don't see how you can help them.

I'm not trying to say that there are not bona fide charities out there. I commend you for your support of same.

The discussion on this thread seems to be regarding the use of tax dollars to fund such things, not trusting the private charities to do the job.

One More Time for Anthony Thomas
While Pine Trees of many varieties exist on the continents of Europe, Asia, Africa, North America, South America and Australia, the Wollemi Pine is unique to Australia.

While slavery existed on the continents of Europe, Asia, Africa, North America and South America, a uniques type of slavery existed in America.

make a difference & give back some
An example of the marketplace at its best:

http://www.thehungersite.com

Just click on the yellow button to donate 1.1 cups of cooked grain free of any expense to you. You can do this once every 24-hour period.

The website advertising sponsors provide the funds; no government money is used. All that is required is your goodwill.

You can also sign up to receive daily email reminders. In 1 year, you can potentially donate 400 cups of cooked grain to the poor.

God Himself proves everything
Max Power writes: 2:38 PM


For example, talent scout says those words are from God, but how does he know?

------------

When any man comes to Him as He said to do.
Simple answer is because it works, just exactly like He said it would.
Quite different than the promises of a politician. God means it as its written.

sophia writes:

Lumber 3:09 post...
I would like to see a link or some evidence of that story...

Not that I don't believe you, I just find it surprising I haven't heard a major uproar if that is the case from parents, Bill O'reilly, etc...that students are being "forced" to participate in such activities...

If that is indeed true, that is clearly a violation of Church vs. State...

If it is true - call O'Reilly - he'd be in 7th heaven for weeks over THAT story!

How about three for starters?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36118

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_6_18/ai_8314 4710

http://www.pacificjustice.org/resources/articles/focus.cfm? ID=ART434511306

For more google Islamic Curriculum California Schools.

Sophia
Christians 'submit' willingly. Not at the point of a sword.

Islam's only overarching moral principle is "if it is good for Islam, it's right."

That includes lying, stealing, and killing.

All the 'upright' Koran quotations refer to fellow Islamists.

Muhammad indicates it is important to tell the truth unless you are dealing with infidels, then he says, "War is deceit."

In other words, the ends justify the means, in spades, for Muslims.

You need to do some more reading and stop being confused by the double-talk like the quotes you posted above about abrogation.

Look up Qutb.

Sophia
So, just because you all have usurped our Christmas, Easter and Thanksgiving holidays and made them secular we need to abandon the roots?

I don't feel threatened by Frosty the Snowman, why are you threatened by baby Jesus?

C_Miner
Thanks!
Young Anthony has some very selective reading skills.

I'd love to hear his version of African -American history

All people like sophie
Are exactly like Fred Phelps.
Fred targets people to attack with his hatred towards them.
Same thing people like sophie do, or Anthony.(his attacks on Dr Sowell)
Only difference is the targets of attack on persons.

I cannot bear to give them any honor to call them liberals, for they have even hi-jacked that word and are nothing close to being liberal, only hate preaching Fred's.

They will talk about Christians or Conservatives exactly like Fred does the sodomites and his targets for scorn.

Blue ribbon hypocrites who condemn hateful attitudes from Fred, but enjoy dishing out their own hate to a different target.