Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Monday, October 08, 2007
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Clarence Thomas
by Thomas Sowell
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


It would be hard to think of anyone whose portrayal in the media differs more radically from the reality than that of Justice Clarence Thomas. His recent appearances on "60 Minutes," the Rush Limbaugh program, and other media outlets provide the general public with their first in-depth look at the real Clarence Thomas.

These media appearances are part of the promotion of his riveting new memoir, titled "My Grandfather's Son." Otherwise, Justice Thomas would probably have continued to confine himself to doing his work at the Supreme Court, without worrying about what was being said about him in the media.

In an era when too many judges, including justices of the Supreme Court, seem to be playing to the media gallery -- if not writing opinions or leaking information with an eye toward favorable coverage in the press -- Justice Thomas' refusal to play that game tells us a lot about him.

His memoir tells us more. Born in material poverty beyond anything experienced even by people on welfare today, Clarence Thomas was raised with an abundance of discipline and character-building that would pay off in later life.

This was largely the work of his grandfather, who raised him, and whom he now calls "the greatest man I have ever known." But that was not his view at the time, when he was a child.

His grandfather, however, was not preoccupied -- like so many modern parents -- with how the children see things. He took his role as a parent to be to see things that children could not see, including challenges that they would encounter in later life.

The metamorphosis of Clarence Thomas went through many phases -- from altar boy to seminary student to a campus radical and racial militant, before eventually coming full circle back to the values his grandfather taught him and an understanding of the law and society that he acquired on his own.

One sign of where he was in his radical and militant phase was that, when someone gave him a book of mine to read, he threw it in the trash basket.

But, by the time I first met him, in 1978, he had already reached the same conclusions on his own that I had reached.

Those conclusions were probably more firmly grasped because they were his own, rather than something he read by somebody else.

Clarence Thomas' own experiences shocked him into a realization that "affirmative action" and other policies being pushed by civil rights organizations and by liberals generally were doing more harm than good, both to blacks and to American society.

In an era when so many people have neither the time nor the patience to examine arguments and evidence, critics have tried to dismiss Clarence Thomas as someone who "sold out" in order to advance himself.

In reality, he was in far worse financial condition than if he had taken the opposite positions on political issues.

As late as the time of his nomination to the Supreme Court, Clarence Thomas' net worth -- everything he had accumulated over a lifetime -- was less than various civil rights "leaders" make in one year.

Nobody sells out to the lowest bidder.

The other great myth about Justice Thomas is that he is a lonely and embittered man, withdrawn from the world, as a result of the brutal confirmation hearings he went through back in 1991.

Clarence Thomas was never a social butterfly. You didn't see his name in the society pages or at media events, either before he got on the High Court or afterward.

In reality, Justice Thomas has been all over the place, giving talks, especially to young people, and inviting some of them to his offices at the Supreme Court.

Summers find him driving his own bus all around the country, mixing with people at truck stops, trailer parks and mall parking lots. The fact that he is not out grandstanding for the media does not mean that he is hunkering down in his cellar.

Clarence Thomas' sense of humor is terrific. Whenever I am on the phone with someone and laughing repeatedly, my wife usually asks me afterward, "Was that Clarence?" It usually is.

Now, thanks to his book, the public can get to know the man himself, rather than the cardboard image created by the media.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Sign up today and receive Thomas Sowell and Townhall.com's daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
 
©Creators Syndicate
I have never met Justice Thomas...

But, a dear friend worked for him at the EEOC. Her assessment of Justice Thomss was that he was "demanding and the fairest, most honest and ethical person she'd ever known."

Another friend, who worked for C-Span, who only casually knew Justice Thomas, said how from time to time she would find Justice Thomas in very serious and deep discussion with the C-Span School Bus driver. She shared that those occasions just made her smile to see Justice Thomas so enjoying himself, when clearly the "school bus driver" was in charge of that discussion!

And, what a joy to watch on C-Span, Armstrong Williams's book signing party for Justice Thomas. How fortunate and blessed we are to have the most brilliant legal mind to ever sit on our Supreme Court in our lifetime.





Justice Thomas
Although I haven't yet read his book, I'm certain I will find Justice Thomas' book quite inspirational. Watching those confirmation hearings all these years later gets my blood boiling all over again. When he finally got his chance to unload on Biden and the usual suspects, he hit them right between the eyes for their "high tech lynching."

Great man!
While in college, I remember watching the confirmation hearings for Clarence Thomas. I was angry at the way they treated him. He had this amazing composure and kept a clear head in the midst of the posturing. My friend and I cheered when they cast the final vote needed to confirm him. Justice Thomas is truly a great man and a hero.

God grant you many years, Justice Thomas!!

my 2 cents
So far only supports of Justice Thomas have shown up and let me count myself among them. I just read the book and found it inspiring, but for every person like me there is someone who disagrees, and I feel that in the end it boils down to whom you believe - Justice Thomas or Anita Hill.

I believe the Justice.

We are so lucky to have you both
I cannot come up with the right words to express how much I admire both you and Justice Thomas. You are brilliant and have the tremendous courage to stand up for what you know to be right. You have made a real, positive difference in the world, and I hope you both continue to do so for many more years.

How nice to have double coverage of 2
conservative icons. Now mention Alan Keyes,
Ward Connerly, and that neat lady who used to be the head of the California HEW, Elaine Anderson i think her name is. Maybe Bill Cosby. And you have the most outspoken hard core uncompromising conservatives in the country. Along with everything else, you drive the PC wishful thinkers nuts. Thank you folks.

I laughed
when Sowell mentioned the judges who are running around shooting their mouths off to the media. Sandra Day O'Conner is one of the Supremes who has spent a lot of time doing this.


Frequently she appears with Justice Kennedy, and the theme is that they are correct in everything that they do. Ask O'Conner about references to foreign courts in her judgements and she will tell you that it is the right thing to do. She constantly informs us that it is unacceptable for citizens to be so condemning of their activism. Basically she says that the people don't know enough to make a valid judgement.


Kennedy revels in the TV time. I have never seen him without that self-satisfied, condescending smirk on his face. To me he looks like a very slimy individual. Both of them share one thing. They are both disgustingly arrogant.


Justice Thomas understands what a travesty Affirmative Action really is. He makes that clear, and the left hates him for it. When he told Biden that the proceedings that day were a high tech lynching, he spoke the truth. He also shut the slimy punks up. They will never forgive him.


As far as I am concerned Clarence Thomas stands head and shoulders above the liberals on the court. he says that they get along just fine. I don't know how he can stand the smell.

Another Point of View
Google "Thomas' Past Isn't Reflected in His Record" by Dawn Turner Trice, chicagotribune.com 10-8-07. Trice is African-American, BTW. She says that having gone from a humble beginning to a certain height, Thomas has now pulled the ladder up after him. She doesn't comment on the whining and vindictive quality of the new book, as other critics have, but suggests that Thomas is best known by his Supreme Court record, one associated with a shocking lack of compassion. For example, in Bowles vs Russell, a clerical error by a judge---he failed to meet a deadline--- prevented reconsideration of the case; Thomas' opinion was that "deadlines are jurisdictional in nature"---he ruled that the case would not be heard. In another case a prisoner had been tethered to a hitching post like an animal and Thomas defended this, saying that doing so "brought prisoners into compliance with prison rules". Having got his, Thomas seems unconcerned about whether anyone else gets anything. In Trice's words, Thomas "...rules as though he has neither a recollection nor a connection to his past." Suffering teaches empathy to some: not to Clarence Thomas.

To Samhill
You were angry at the "way they treated Clarence Thomas"? Take a look at how they treated Anita Hill. David Brock, in his book "Blinded by the Right", gives us chapter and verse of the campaign to help Thomas onto the Court by smearing Anita Hill. Brock was the journalist hired to do the hatchet job. He tells all.

OMG, "Blinded" again
lilly revisits that "expose'" by David Brock in which he tells how he "smeared" Anita Hill. The problem is, his first book on the subject, "The Real Anita Hill," is carefully researched and footnoted every step of the way, whereas his second book, "Blinded By the Right," has not a single note or reference that can be checked.

Brock tells us he was a liar THEN (when he documented his research carefully, and could be cross-checked) but is not a liar NOW. At best, I can say only that Brock is a liar, period, and cannot be believed in either account. But if I have to make a choice between his two accounts, I'll choose the one that has been cross-checked and verified, and that coincides with the other known facts of the case.

By the way, lilly, if you get around to it, explain why you accept Dawn Trice's assessment that "...having gone from a humble beginning to a certain height, Thomas has now pulled the ladder up after him." In your explanation, include whatever "ladders" Thomas took advantage of that he has since removed. The charge is laughable, and completely without foundation; it amounts to a charge that Thomas would not have been accepted by Yale without Affirmative Action, a charge that is provably false.

Looking for role models?
Instead of the media running to Al and Jesse for the "official" viewpoint of African-Americans, how about going to real men like Thomas Sowell and Justice Thomas for a change?

Dr. Sowell & Justice Thomas are two special individuals that have courage and conviction that we can all admire. They are role models to all.

C Thomas may be T Sowell's greatest gift
Maybe Clarence Thomas is Thomas Sowell's greatest gift to the human race.
The article's last paragraph is reassuring. While I am glad Justice Thomas is humble enough to listen to people at truckstops, I'm also glad he gets Sowell's advice, too.
TS mentions CT throwing a TS book away, but neglects to mention that CT now counts TS as a great influence on his young life.

Back to the common man theme, Eric Hofer, the longshorman philosopher seems to be one of TS's intellectual mentors.

Oh! I forgot.
Anita Hill has no credibility whatsoever. The little bum maintained a relationship with Thomas for years after she claims to have been so offended by his alleged remarks. Anita went from obscurity to infamy. She has no doubt had a nice easy ride in academia since she stabbed Thomas in the back.


Justice Thomas
Funny and sad at the same time, every time AA shows up at angry Clarence's door he grabs hold then bitterly shouts it down. He was admitted to Yale on it just like legacy's and family's with money and prestige were and STILL ARE. Then his appointment to the highest court. But most people here say he was the most qualified to get that appointment.


Regarding Anita Hill
(This space intentionally left blank.)

To Savage99 -- names you left out
I think that's Eloise Anderson. Yes .. http://www.claremont.org/scholars/scholarID.395/scholar.as p .. saw her in-person once at a Claremont conference on immigration and citizenship. Tough as nails!

Your list omitted Walter Williams and Jesse Lee Peterson. Carol Swain isn't really a conservative, but she's very impressive, too.

Somebody Explain what the Big Deal is
What was it she accused him of again?

Telling dirty jokes?

Am I right? Just telling dirty jokes, right?

I mean, there was NOT any groping, fondling, or the always-popular dress-staining, right?

That's pretty much the gist of whatever it is Thomas was supposed to have done wrong, right?

I'm not too good at following all these nitty-gritty details, somebody correct me. This can NOT be the whole thing. Even if Anita Hill's testimony is 100% accurate -- somebody explain to me how this is supposed to be a Big Deal.

Y'know, it occurs to me that if things were reversed and Thomas was a liberal, folks would be screaming their heads off about the Freedom of Speech he's supposed to have.

May Almighty God continue to bless
.... and keep and care for our beloved fraternal republic -- and the very Judeo-Christian/Western/Human Civilization we have long van-guarded and must for ever guard -- for just so long as it produces and its rich soils nourish and cause to flourish such Intact American Men as is the Good Justice, Thomas and as is the Good Doctor, Sowell.

Both of them, my heroes!

A Great Man Bares it All
I just read the book. See my blog about it.

Yes, Lilly!
Once again, Lilly shows herself to be stupid and vindictive, wouldn't you love to know her and try to understand what awful thing about her life that has put her in this place? Besides, as many here have said with perfect reason, "Lilly, go someplace else".

One angry man
I saw the 60 minute and Fox news interviews of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

MY GOD WHAT AN ANGRY MAN! Jezzzz.

HE IS BITTER, AND EVERYONE COULD SEE IT AND HEAR IT.

Was the last Supreme Court Justice confirmation hearings difficult and he is white? Sure he is black and people are prejudice but could it be that people don't like his personality? Is it always about being black.

I'm left handed and have brown eyes, is that my excuse for everything bad that happens to me. Frankly he sounds very ungrateful and arrogant. Not that there is a problem with that.

Really, he has what I would politely say are "Personal Issues". Issues of the past. MOVE ON Judge Clarence.

Of course this is Townhall and all racism is liberals fault, right? Nothing good came from giving minorities an advantage they would never get otherwise?

As far as the Anita Hill accusations of his sexual harassment in the work place, is it possible he did that? (YES) I know he denies it, but it's possible something happened? It's possible right? or are conservative men unable to sexually harass woman? (We know that's not true, unless they are Gay.)

Fact, he is partly a result of affirmative action. That in no way takes away from his legal prowess & intellect, only that he benefited, RIGHT? YES?

WHY SO ANGRY? I get it, he was discriminated against due to the color of his skin? or personality.

I would not hire him regardless of color. He seems, just from the interviews, like someone I'd not care to work with or have a beer with. Of course his staff says he is great. Surprise!

Dave Chappell would be a lot more fun.

Uncle Ruckus
WTF are you talking about? This is America, please speak English.

Lilly
There is the real probability that Thomas was applying the law the way it was written. You would have him rule in a manner that guarantees an outcome you perceive to be desirable. His job is to apply the law. Much law as written does not produce perfect results. It is the legislature job to fix that,not the judge's.

Thomas Hate pt 1
Of course the left hates Judge Thomas. But most of all blacks hate him worse and then Communist(D) Party members hate him worst of all. Why all the hate and vitriol? Because he doesn’t toe the party line on the issues that the minority victim dejure (pt 5 of the types of liberal on Burt’s column yesterday) wants. He doesn’t like quotas, set-asides, or so-called affirmative action under other names such as "diversity". As the Chief Justice said in the last case, "The best way to end discrimination is to quit discriminating". Like it or not, the law of the land through the 14th Amendment AND the 1964 Civil Rights Act is that NOBODY will be discriminated against because of race, religion, or national origin. ATTENTION Lilly! Nobody means nobody, including white people. It is not OK to discriminate against white people any more than it is to discriminate against black people.

As for Anita Hill. She got what she wanted. She got her day in the sun and a cushy job for which she was more than likely totally unqualified for. From seeing the news account clippings of that hearing my opinion was that she was a colossal liar. My opinions haven’t changed over the years. In fact, since the Bork hearing and the Thomas hearing, I have come to the conclusion that Senate confirmation hearings are a colossal waste of time and money, and possibly unconstitutional when used as a simulated court hearing (another story). Every Senator in those hearings had made up their mind long before they sat down at these hearing as to how they would vote. The hearing is only posturing for the camera in an attempt to justify that vote to the public, and get free publicity. BTW, why is it that you don’t see the Republicans retailiating in the hearings over communist judges like Ginsberg. They should have hit the Communist(D) in the hearings for her just like they hit Bork and Thomas.

pt 2

One other myth about Thomas that this column did not explore is the one that says he is "following after Scalia". In my opinion he has passed Scalia long ago. I have come to the conclusion that Scalia is a CONSERVATIVE judge vs an originalist or textualist. What that means is that Scalia is more like O’Conner in the way he reaches a decision in case. He knows what outcome he desires and he tortures the reasoning out of the case and what every precedents his clerks can drudge up. It’s just that the outcome is one that most conservatives can live with. A prime example of that is the California medical marijuana case. Scalia voted with the majority in ruling that the federal laws were ascendant over the CA law because of "interstate commerce". This may have been more of a "stare decisis" thing for Scalia but that is another different story. Striking the federal marijuana laws would have been a victory for the 10th amendment and would have also struck ALL federal laws, as well as the federal farm quota systems and price supports. I would have loved it.

LILLY
Contrary to liberal belief, the purpose of the law and judges is NOT compassion. The purpose is JUSTICE. Take a look at the images of Themis, Goddess of Justice. Why is it that she has a sword in one hand and scales in the other while blindfolded. Even a raging liberal like you should be able to figure out the symbolism there.

You're right,Lilly...
...Thomas is one of those Uppity Negroes who had the audacity to leave the plantation.

The Cyclist
Thomas, Sowell, Cosby, Hill, Powell, Williams and Formula One sensation Lewis Hamilton, among thousands of others who are upstanding citizens instead of cheap thugs or racial whores, who speak English instead of Ebonics, who dress like adults instead of sluts or circus clowns and who can actually express a reasonable thought without including a flurry of four-letter words are plain and simply just not black enough.

Honorable and Admirable
Watched several interviews and can only conclude the man is honorable and admirable. The book's on my reading list.

What I don't understand, knowing what I do, is why anyone gets upset what the media might say about him, his bitterness etc. He isn't.

Great column, Doc!
Clarence Thomas' book is DEFINITELY on my reading list!

A humble suggestion: why don't you and Justice Thomas collaborate on a book, or a series of articles?

Perhaps you can explore Economics and Objective Law? Or, the unintended economic consequences of non-objective Law?


Lilly: David Brock repented!
He went over to the dark side to found hillary's attack dog, Media Matters. He still trashs people, but from the left side of the aisle now.

It was Don Imus and now they're after Limbaugh.

Sellouts
I have often heard my black friends refer to conservatives blacks as sellouts. I always ask "sellouts of what?" Aren't we all Americans?
We have come a long way from the days of blacks not being allowed to vote, to the time when most whites were angry that a black man would not run for president, Colin Powell.
I am proud that Condi Rice is the face of American foreign policy,that the premier voices of economics are Dr Sowell and Walter Williams.
Funny how when Cosby points out the failings of the black community, he is excoriated for it.
Could it be because many of us white folks were saying the same things 40 years ago and they still haven't gotten their act together thanks to their liberal "friends"?

Men like Justice Thomas are the best friends the black community ever had, someday hopefully they will wake up that fact, grow up and tell the liberals to shove their paternilism where the sun don't shine.


Clarence Thomas vs. Kennedy
I realize that a sitting Justice of the SCOTUS cannot debate another sitting Justice on live TV .. but,

Justice Thomas is invited to join the exclusive, fictitious and thought-provoking Touchstone series of debates, along the lines of "Sowell vs Krugman".

http://voice.townhall.com/g/3956455a-0c4a-493a-a3ff-3cc03ca 78418


lilly
Roberta Roberta: Hal you mom (lilly) will make us watch Nancy Pelosi tapes ;for hours if she catches us.
Hal: Shhh! She thinks we are just taking a bath.

I Wish I Could Meet Him
I would give anything to meet Justice Thomas and shake his hand. He is one of my heroes.

Justice Thomas
is someone I admire. There were many obstacles to overcome and reporting on them does not mean he is bitter. If he had omitted that hate filled congressional hearing he would have been criticized and people would ask why did he omit it, what is he hiding? By writing about it, he is criticized as being bitter. If only we had people in congress with half the character of the justice and the author of this article. God bless them both.

Obviously, I have no way to "prove"

this, so anyone can take or leave it....

But, my dear friend who worked at the EEOC for Justice Thomas (not Justice then, of course) said that she saw Hill pretty much throw herself at Justice Thomas numerous time.

AND, Hill was absolutely furious that he was married to a white women!

Now, it appears that the same liberals who were willing to destroy a man for idiological reasons, and marched anita hill out to do their dirty work, are the same ones who so willingly cast aspersions and accuse Justice Thomas of being angry, etc.




PATRICIAN'S PLANTATION
Need to ask: How many members are there to the Hyannnisport Afro-American Yacht Club and are they opposed as well to the eco-frienddly Wind Farm on Nantucket Sound? Being "Nothing Personal - Only Politics!" the Patrician keeps everything calm and serene in the harbor for all the Special Priviladge-Crats can enjoy of lazy summers by Naragansett Bay. No Kopeckne's, Bork's, Sowell's, Thomase's, or Bush's need apply when other clubs are equally good somewhere else. But make no mistake about it on the Patrician's plantation all the help have "Affirmative Action" to mop floors and set the table in the Big House.

Basketball Referee
Some of us know this: but in the evening CT referees basketball games near his home and asked some young Black players a simple hypothetical Affirmative Action question; If I referee a game between an all black team and an all white team should I referee the game different because one team is all black? The true spirit of the young American black mind came forth refusing special treatment in sports or any other endeavor! Plantation-Crats dominate the racist liberal wing of the Democrats and Ted Kennedy is the KKK Supreme Wiard.

A True American Story . . .
As a Caucasian resident from Georgia more than half a century ago, I can testify to the kind of limitations African Americans had to face in those days. Segregated schools were not equal. The social and economic structures made it almost impossible for black people to rise out of poverty. The story of Justice Thomas is truly an inspirational American story. His grandfather is the real hero in the story.

If Joe Biden, Ted Kennedy (moral judge of other's morality), and the rest of the Move-On-To-A-Socialist Dictatorship.Org. crowd succeeds in achieving their goals, America will lose its greatness. What they cannot achieve at the polls they try to achieve by making sure that activist left-leaning judges sit on the bench and make America a "people OF the government, BY the government and FOR the government."

If they can elect enough left-leaning Presidents (Hillary, Edwards, Biden, Obama, etc.) they can re-shape the Supreme Court to do their bidding. I certainly hope that America wakes up before this happens.

So Hillary has (temporarily) moved to the political center? She is counting on people believing it. Once elected (hopefully it won't happen) she will return to core beliefs.

Mr. Ellison...
I have seen you post here quite a few times, and it certianly occurs to me that if anyone is the Uncle Tom... it is you. You come here to say the things that your Democratic masters want you to say because they cannot say them in public themnselves. The Dem masters love people like you. All you know is as long as you tow their line, one day they may recognize you as the good little slave (of the mind) that you are and give you a chance at sitting at the table with them. Why don't you for once in your life, just stop and take a look at someone not for the color of their skin but look deep into thier soul and see who they really are as an American. Of course you should start with looking in the mirror and see if that person you see is really being honest about who they are and what they stand for. Second, if you read the Constitution you will see that there is no special requirement or qualification to be a SCOTUS justice. The president really can nominate anyone they see fit to do the job. What is nice about Justice Thomas and most refreshing to see is that he does not have the Ivory Tower background that the left demands a justice should have. He sees the world through the eyes of the common man and sees the constitution through the eyes of the founders. He takes his oath seriously and knows and RESPECTS his limited role in our government. You should rejoice in the fact that their is at least one person in Washington who actually respects you and your right to live your life (regardless of your color) with limited interference from the government.

P.S. Don't you dare come with any rascist remarks here, because you have been told this by a black man who bought his freedom from the plantation a long time ago.

One of the greatest...
No one is good enough for idiot liberals. They would rather see their liberal heros affirm such Supreme Court great moments like Kelo, Roe V Wade and McCain-Feingold than embrace a man who staunchly defends the Constitution for what it says.

It would be easy to say that Justice Thomas is a great model for Blacks, but easier to say that he is a great model for all.

I too would like the privilege of shaking his hand. There aren't many in this world that I feel that way about.

note even worth an original post
I guess this is going to be Clarence Thomas month on Townhall.com. As I have noticed many columnist have written columns about this loser because of the release of his book. This man is such a loser that he's not even worth an original post. This is what I wrote on other threads where the columnist and posters worshiped at the feet of this unscrupulous man:

Clarence Thomas is the lowest of the low. Here's a man that benefited from Affirmative Action in the 1970's, then turns his back on the same programs that help him get in the position he is in today! By doing this, he has tried to prevent other African Americans from trying to achieve as he did. He then goes onto criticize African Americans for being "Victims" for fighting for the very programs that benefited him. LOSER!!!!!

These hypocritical 1970’s self hating black conservatives truly amaze me. They are truly the vermin of the African American race

free man
You wrote a paragraph on my little sentence. Ok.

I don't really have time for you but:

1) What plantation???? I understand that black cons got tired of being called "Uncle Toms" by some liberals. So to be clever, they developed this "plantation mentality" Cliché. But don't ever call me a slave. How dare you sir or woman?? Who do you think you are??? These are my beliefs. I belong to a party with which I share similar political principles and philosophy. Can I not think for myself? Am I somehow unable to think for myself because I am African American? Am I not being honest?Why does it bother you that I am a Democrat? The nerve of you.

Ad to call me a "Uncle Tom" also???? Who the hell do you think you are?

Also, did you read the comments of Vicon Anita Hill at all? Bet you didn't. As for Clarence, I don; think he was qualified. Many didn't. I would have loved to see A. Leon Higginbotham on the SCOTUS. That is a real man and intellectual giant. He went to Yale aw also. Yet he supported AA??? Interesting????

As far as racist, African Americans can be racist you know. I consider you ignorant, arrogant, and very bitter. You better look in the mirror your self. Are you really "free"???

Next time, don't ever address me like that. Check yourself first man or get checked.

lilly
Why white liberals think when a black person says something on the issue of race, it like tablets from on high.

Thomas job is not to be compassion for the downtrodden, or to make sure he leaves the ladder for someone else, whatever that means, It's only to interrupt the constitutions.
Justice souter once said when he rules he always rules for the little guy! Sounds real nice doesn't.
Justice Roberts said of the same question, he rules for the which either is constitutional.
I don't know about you, but I'll take the person who rules for the constitution, and the order of law; The other way leads to tyranny.

Brocks is a liar, enough said. He will never have back his credibility.

I see sandy burglar is now working for the Hillary again, I guess Bush should rehire Mr. Libby if we go by how Dem's do things.

The ladder deal, We have a Black lady(and family) who moved in to the neighborhood after Katerina, to finish up her PH.D.
She watched how people were in the neighborhood with their families, and would talk to us about how we raised our kids, my neighbors kids even though their all married, they all come back almost daily to see their mom.
She said in the Black family they expect the one who makes it should have to take care of the rest of them(even distant family), meaning she does all the work, and they reap all the benefits, she isn't going to move back now, and doesn't want others in her family to mooch off of her.
She does want to start her own family however, but doesn't want her kids growing up in that culture.

free man
Round and round we go where it stops nobody knows? lol. Why does it constantly escape conservatives like you that African Americans generally support the democratic platform? There is no "plantation of the democratic party" Most African Americans are not for the abolishment of Affirmative Action, are for universal healthcare, are supportive of government funded programs like welfare, social security and Medicare and are against war in Iraq or anywhere else for that matter.

So why, my god why are black conservatives like you (who apparently "bought your freedom", lol) surprised when blacks support democrats. Can you even give me one legitimate concrete reason why blacks should support Republicans given their political stance over the past 40 years? And please don't give me any of that "content of our character rhetoric" that conservatives constantly use to disarm blacks, Martin Luther King supported Affirmative Action in case you didn't know.

Mt. Thomas...
You sir are a disgrace. I happen to be one of those so called self hating black conservatives. What is so amazing to me is the fact that obviously do not have the brains or common sense of a gnat. If you would happen to know any black who actually lived during the segregated past, and I am not talking about the 1960's, I am talking about the turn of the last century, you would find why us black conservatives believe what we believe. My grandfather who was born in 1900 to a former slave who was able to purchase his freedom based on his craft as a stone cutter, who later bought the freedom of his family, went on to buy and own property which he willed to his church (which he helped found) and family on the agreement that the ground that the church stood on would always be there as a burial site for his descendents. So they would have a place to come see who they are and where they came from. My Grandfather helped found the NAACP, fought as a 40 year old man in World War II, help found one of the first black baseball teams in Maryland, marched with MLK and lived and died as a true Abraham Lincoln Republican. You sir are the self hating black who despises the fact that their are black people like Clarence Thomas who realized that returning to the roots of his childhood was the only way to realize who he was and to truly live as an American. If you want to be a socialist slave to the liberal white master, be my guest. But don't you dare come here and point the finger at me and people like me who have decided to buy our freedom with blood, sweat and tears from the likes of you and the Democratic/Liberal plantation.

Ellison
Cliche'? I have read more lame cliche's with your name on it then I care to mention. But I am not here to argue with you. I discovered who I was a long time ago the first time I looked upon my great grandfather's tombstone (that he carved himself before he died) and found out the incredible sacrifices that he made in order to make sure his descendents knew where they came from. You can believe what ever you want, that is your right but don't you impune Clarence Thomas becuase he chose to think for himself and understand the true problems of liberalism and how it was destroying everything that his grandfather and mine alike worked their lives to build.

Free Man
You're obviously a man with passion. You're right about Anthony Thomas. He's an entitlement guy. The country still owes him for slavery.

There are many black leaders in the liberal/progressive movement. It doesn't help for you to use the "White Masters" comment while challenging another poster about his racist remarks.

free man
Lol, your post is very humerous.It's hard to take you seriously. But I'll try. What your grandfather and relatives did seems very admirable. But I have no idea why you think it's relevant to this discussion. Are you trying to say that African American democrats are lazy and don't value hard work? I don't get it. I guess all those black DEMOCRATS in congress and our proud presidential candidate Barack Obama got to where they are by being lazy if that’s your logic.

Also republicans in the early 1900's were allies of African Americans and were completely different from republicans we have had since the 1960's. Remember Barry Goldwater opposed civil rights legislation in the 1960's and it was all downhill from there. You do know this right?

As for the NAACP that your grandfather help found, you apparently are under this delusion that they still support republicans. Well that may have been true in 1900, but this is the year 2007! And the Republican Party’s agenda and loyalty is completely different than it was 107 years ago. Come into the future my friend.

thomas
yes, MLK supported affirmative action, but he was also the recipient of affirmative from certain members of the female gender. So if MLK words are to be taken as the model, maybe you be so lucky or maybe unlucky depending on how you view it to be the recipient of the affirmative action from the female gender since MLK approved of such, not by words, but by actions.



You left yourself wide open for this. You better think before you write.

Mr. Thomas
Mainly because blacks do not understand or have a link to their past. To most of them, the Democratic party does not exist prior to JFK. most do not know about the rascist and segregrated past of the Democratic party and and don't know that without the Republican party Affirmative action and the Civil Rights movement would not have existed. They don't know that blacks almost unanimously supported the Republican party until the depression era when the Democratic party set out to strip black support from the Republican party. The legacy that has been left in the wake of the "Great Society" has done more damage to the black family then almost slavery itself. I know, I have seen it with my own eyes in my own family. Now trust me, there are things that I do not like about the modern day Republican party, but I do know this, that the Government, (which only gets its power and money from the citizens of this country) cannot provide for me and my family like I can and I refuse to kid myself into believing that it ever could.

Lily
You have quoted Brock as telling about a campaign to smear Anita Hill in which he played a dominant role. How can you know that is true because he is a self admitted liar????

Thomas
I am in the future my friend. My Grandfather despised what the NAACP had become. He quit the orginization because it started to sell its support to the highest bidder and lost sight of the princials that it was founded upon. And if you want bring up Goldwater, then I will bring up Fulbright.

thomas
Do you do research before you write? Does not sound like it?

It is said and is true that before you criticize a point of view, one should make sure one understands it. One way of doing that in good schools(i dont now if you went to one) is to take opposite position of your own and debate it. So to help you become sharp as a tack, a good egs of proper affirm action, I ask you to make the same argument that Goldwater made when he opposed the civil rights act. This will take some research.

free man
Obviously your devotion to the republican party, has allowed you to completly disregard the lack of value many conservatives have for human life. Republicans support moronic wars, and preemtive invasion of other countries. What is your moral position on that "Free Man"? Should we "plantaion blacks" support that as well: The murder of innocent civillians based on faulty information?

freeman and anthony
Before you compare Fulbright and Goldwater, do some research.
Briefly, Fulbright was captive of being a southerner; Goldwater's oppositon to civil rights bill was principled and he feared what Sowell et al feared , the curse of affirmative action; that is preferences based on race and demotion of merit and the use of such laws to interfere in the private sector. Goldwater turned out to be quite accurate in his predictions as Sowell, Williams et al have so well documented.

Anthony writes
"Come into the future my friend. " Anthony means the same policies that the dem party and black elite have been favoring for years. Here is the recent past which does not bode well for the future:

1. Destruction of black family.
2. Single parenthood
3. Hi crime rates in the black community
4. Highest per cent of killings of police in black community
5. Blacks have highest dropout in elite colleges because affirm action scraped the barrel to have a black face
6. Jesse JAckson and Sharpton, two thugs, are now the face of the black community
7. Calling any black that thinks out of the box "Uncle TOM"
because of limited vocabulary of so called educated blacks.

Did I leave anything out.

These are all good reasons to continue the policies that led to them. So says Anthony.

Mr. Thomas
You want to talk about human life? Lets talk about the blind support of abortion at will that the liberals of this country want enshrined as a right in the constitution. What I care about is the United States of America and the constitution. The constitution calls for the President to defend this country against all enemies. If you actually bothered to know the history you would know that the invasion of Iraq was not preemptive. What would you call the bombing of Iraq by Bill Clinton? What would you call the 13 UN Resolutions that Saddam broke promising severe consequences if he did not adhere to them. Remember, Desert Storm only ended based on a cease fire agreement which Saddam broke. We had the right and authority to resume hostilities at anytime. As far as the loss of human life in the war, I blame Saddam, not the US. I blame the terrorists not our President. It does not matter to me what party the President is from during the time of War. I supported Clinton when he bombed Iraq, because I felt that he felt it was the right thing to do. I supported him in Bosnia (which we still have troops there) because he said it was the right thing to do. I would have supported Al Gore if he would have gone into Iraq, because everyone knew that with Saddam in power, he would have undermined (just like Iran is doing) any attempt for us to defend ourselves against Al Qaeda. Mr. Thomas, for me, we can debate social issues all day, but without this countries ability to defend itself we won't have a country left.

Len
I know what Goldwater stood for. I just did not feel like arguing it. I just wanted to illustrate how easy it is to bring up a name and throw it out there when you can't make a true argument. The liberals have been trying to tar Conservatives with Barry Goldwater for 40 years because it helps to change the focus of the argument and it gives them someone for blacks to hate. The Democratic party has (very succesfully)been able to focus the problems of the black community on dead white men and on conservatives.

anthony thomas and ralph ellison
I guess in your world justice thomas just isn't black enough. He was appointed to the supreme court to render decisions facing all of america and not as the special rep for the black community. But like all libs and their muddled thinking what you can't win at the ballot box you expect the courts to give you. It is a very sad commentary on the part of blacks that the turn their back and ridicule a man of accomplishment because blacks always label conserv blacks and black repubs as no better than house n*ggers. Blacks always claim that the likes of the revs jackson and sharpton and that the ncaap also doesn't speak for them but yet they still dance to the tune these frauds continue to play. Even the moron reid who complained about justice thomas flawed legal renderings couldn't cite one example of thomas ever using faulty logic in reaching decisions and reid is at least a lawyer. That blacks are so vocal in their opposition to judge thomas proves they will believe anything and everything their dim masters will spoon feed them anmd accept as truth.

Justice Thomas
I haven't watched "60 Minutes" for years and for the Obvious reasons! For some reason I tuned in when Justice Thomas was being interviewed, purely accident-didn't even know he was on, and outstanding individual as you are!

Too back we do not have more like you and Justice Thomas to Lead this country!

Wildwest: On Jackson & Sharpton
you stated:

"Blacks always claim that the likes of the revs jackson and sharpton and that the ncaap also doesn't speak for them but yet they still dance to the tune these frauds continue to play."

I would tend to agree with "blacks" making that
claim. The only people who keep misrepresenting
Jackson and Sharpton as "black leaders" are conservatives and republicans. Maybe you should ask some black folks that you know personally
what they think of the two. I doubt very seriously if you will find any that would label them as such.

Clarence Thomas is a hero
He took verbal abuse by supposed leaders of our country that would have been unbelievable if we had not seen it played out on our televisions.
He stood much taller and more honorable than any of his accusers.
Affirmative Action has not only taken incentive to work hard away, it also minimizes accomplishments of those who do acheive. I worked with a wonderful black physician, who was very talented and did great things. But she was never sure in her own mind that she was that competent because she went to medical school by AA.

Re: Justice Thomas
Pardon my poor spelling and Grammar OOOPS!

Free Man
Bless you! You are wasting your GOOD breath on folks who will never think differently. The bashers, name callers, arrogant so and so's who will always be victims, but call themselves something else. "Enlightened" I believe the something else is. The "younger" generation cannot fathom what went on before, and actually doesn't care. As your previous poster pointed out - that was 1900, this is 2007. As the old saying goes, "there are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see!
One is always hopeful, but also wonders where the downward spiral of this nation will ultimately take us.

Lonestarblues
Hey, my friend! You will LOVE Thomas' book! I could barely put it down (was up til 4 a.m. reading it!) I sent copies to both my sons, too. I agree with your assessment. I just don't get the 'he's angry and bitter' meme that is out there. I guarantee no one that says that has read his book. Enjoy reading it!

Left Angle - - - on Jackson et al
The problem with Jackson and his ilk is not the black population at large, most of whom are getting a little tired of seeing him in front of a microphone every time something happens --

The problem is that the MSM continuously *puts* a microphone in front of him every time something happens.

And I expect the MSM is a little tired of that also, but they're afraid that if they don't, they'll get blasted for racism. So they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. They've grown accustomed to poking mikes in front of them, so, they'll keep doing what they're used to.

Why Liberals Get Vitriolic irt C.Thomas
quoting Anthony (not Clarence) Thomas:
"Clarence Thomas is the lowest of the low. Here's a man that benefited from Affirmative Action in the 1970's, then turns his back on the same programs that help him get in the position he is in today! By doing this, he has tried to prevent other African Americans from trying to achieve as he did."


Clarence Thomas is the "poster boy" for what's wrong with Affirmative Action.

Lowest of the low? Are you saying he is not competent to do his job? Are you saying he was too stupid to get into Yale? Are you saying that, but for AA, he'd out somewhere today cleaning toilets? Which is all he's qualified for?

Come on.

And believe me, I have heard blacks accuse Justice Thomas of being incompetent, essentially because they disagreed with many of his rulings.

So what liberals are saying, in effect, is that Clarence Thomas is incompetent and got where he is because of AA. Right? Thank you, this is exactly the problem with AA. It promotes race instead of competency. It promotes "equal results" over equal opportunity.

So what liberals are complaining about in "pulling the ladder up behind him" is that they want to have MORE incompetent blacks, such as Clarence Thomas, in positions of power and prestige?

(Of course, it can be added as a footnote that to liberals, *all* conservatives are incompetent!)

A.T.'s 10:30 a.m. post
Thankfully, it sounds as if you're running out of steam!

Vitriol part II
Dang I hate this 2000 character limit!

But wait a second. Isn't it *racist* to say that Clarence Thomas is incompetent, simply because he's black? I happen to think so. Indeed, I happen to think he makes a fine judge. I think he's intelligent, articulate, and I also happen to agree with many of his rulings.

In which case, he clearly did not *need* AA to get to where he is. I believe he's written that he's run into exactly this problem: people assume he's incompetent because he's black, and, were it not for AA, he *would* be out somewhere cleaning toilets.

As a matter of fact, *nobody* needs AA if they're intelligent and willing to put in the work that's required. AA is simply another useless "feel good" program. Liberals get to "feel good" no matter how much real harm they do.

And there you have the source of the vitriol directed to Clarence Thomas. He is the living embodiment of that paradox.

He's either an incompetent who got to where he is thanks to AA because he's black, and they can't admit to putting incompetents in lofty positions, or he's a bright, intelligent, hard worker who never needed AA, and to call him incompetent because of AA is racist, and we certainly can't have that either.

He either "pulled up the ladder" to prevent more incompetents from getting there and liberals *need* more incompetents, an untenable position, or the ladder was never needed in the first place and *should* be removed, an equally untenable position.

So you can see why liberals get their shorts in a bunch over Clarence Thomas; or any other successful black conservative for that matter.

free man


"If you actually bothered to know the history you would know that the invasion of Iraq was not preemptive."

Whaaat!!! You've completely lost me sir. How was the Invasion of Iraq not preemptive? Iraq has never attacked the United States! Therefore our invasion of the country was not based on any sort of retaliation like when we retaliated against the Japanese in WW2.

The Invasion of Iraq in 2003 was based on the faulty intelligence that Saddam had weapons of Mass destruction, which to this date, we have not found. George Bush refused to allow the U.N. to finish their inspections. These inspections could have verified this information before the US decided to invade a sovereign nation.

Republicans keep changing the agenda. When the Bush Administration sold us on this war, it had nothing to do with what you mention, or what most republicans mention to date. It had to do with WMD's and that Saddam was an eminent threat, but there was no threat was there?

"What would you call the bombing of Iraq by Bill Clinton?"

Not a full invasion and occupation like we are involved in now.


"What would you call the 13 UN Resolutions that Saddam broke promising severe consequences if he did not adhere to them."

This is completely irrelevant! We did not allow the UN to finish their inspections before we invaded the country. It was an act of brutality.



free man

"I would have supported Al Gore if he would have gone into Iraq, because everyone knew that with Saddam in power, he would have undermined (just like Iran is doing) any attempt for us to defend ourselves against Al Qaeda."

Al Qaeda/ Iraq, Iraq/Al-Qaeda, here we go with this again. There was no connection between 911 and Iraq. Have you read the 911 Commission report? Obviously not.

Most of Al-Qaeda are in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan. But we won't invade Pakistan because we are cowards and they have a nuke, we won't invade Saudi Arabia because of our oil interest in their country, and we already have invaded Afghanistan.

Speaking of black leaders.
For several years I played tennis with a man (name withheld) who was one or two steps below Secretary on Nixon's cabinet.

This man happened to be a Jew (for those of you who thinks Nixon didn't like Jews), and he often had to meet with Stupo Jesse Jackson.

He said that in all his years in government (he was a lawyer at the Nurmburg trials) he never met a more dirty mouth person than Jackson. He would come into the office and spew all kinds of filthy language, including long Anti-Semitic harangues.

==================

And by the way commenters, use your return Key, over and over.

No one has time to read all this fascinating stuff in detail, so if the paragraphs are short, they can be scanned, if they are long, they should be, and are skipped.


FREE MAN

.....I see we have something in common ...we have both been attacked by Ralph Ellison and Anthony Thomas ...I have been called a racist by both of them because I am a purveyor of the truth as God gave me the wisdom to see the truth ...

.....the truth can be a harsh master ...especially when emotions crowd logic out of your head ...I try to use logic to see objective reality and I have to admit that I do not always like what I see ...

....I think both Thomas and Ellison have become embittered and warped by their hatred of whites ...they have an "its us against them" mentality ...that is why they castigate Clarence Thomas and call him an "Uncle Tom" ...in their eyes he has gone over to the other side and is a traitor ...

.....I think Clarence Thomas is a great man who has overcome obstacles that most of us will never know or face ...he has found the truth and the truth has set him free .....COLOSSUS

Damned with faint praise
Why do I get the feeling that the same idiots damning TH for their coverage of a positive Conservative Black Man would lavish nothing but love on the Nation or the KOS for articles gushing about Barak Obama or MLK?

Maybe the columnists at TH are writing lots of pieces about Justice Thomas BECAUSE THEY LIKED THE BOOK AND WANT TO PROMOTE IT! I'd rather have a few more pieces like this than the whining about everything not Leftist at the Nation.

Ralph and Anthony - GET A LIFE. If you don't like the articles here, don't read them! However, respect the First Amendment, PLEASE!

Uncle Alby: a response.
thanks for your response.

I believe that Jackson and Sharpton are political activists that stand up for
black causes, but to call them "black
leaders" is a stretch. I dont think you would find many blacks who would discribe them as such.

Yes, they both are publicity hounds, but that is a two way street because I also consider them "lightning rods". The fact that they are both famous does bring publicity to whatever cause they are protesting, and that can be both good and bad. the good is it puts the spotlight on the problem. the bad is it puts the spolight on them.

I respect Justice Thomas and his accomplishments, however i disagree with his politics. I watched his 60 minutes interview and was rather shocked to hear him echoing typical
repub/cons rhetoric on race. He made two statements that blacks i have talked to found very offensive:

to paraphrase he stated:

" On affirmative action I do not drink the koolaid of liberals."

" I am criticized within my race for being " a uppity black who wandered to far from the lib/dem plantation."

I can understand why blacks view him as they do.

Wildwest
"I guess in your world justice thomas just isn't black enough"

Nope gotta wrong. Obviously you didn't read my post. I don't like him because he is a hypocrite. I never once said he wasn't qualified for his job because he benefited from Affirmative Action. (that maybe your interpretation) I said it was low, and hypocritical of him to try to abolish a program that he himself has benefited from. He looks down upon and criticizes African Americans who have fought to keep Affirmative Action so that many others may succeed as he did. That’s why he is a low life. Period. Reread the post.

Unca Alby
"Are you saying he is not competent to do his job? Are you saying he was too stupid to get into Yale? Are you saying that, but for AA, he'd out somewhere today cleaning toilets?

No, that maybe your interpretation of Affirmittive Action. I am saying it is low of him to try to block others from trying to acheive as he did. That's it. See my post to "wildwest" above.

Nothing to add
Dr. Sowell you have very eloquently described Justice Thomas, all other add ons pale by comparison.

baseball doc
Thanks. As you can see by Mr. Thomas' response that his arguments are the typical left rhetoric. I guess this is what helps him and Mr. Ellison sleep at night.

Sowell and Thomas
If we could clone, Thomas Sowell and Clarence Thomas are two men that would be among those that it would be absolutely essential to include.

Just think of the tremendous advantages, everyone would see if we had dozens of such intelligent and far thinking men.


These are men whose epitath will read, "They Did While Others Only Said".

Deornwulf
"Why do I get the feeling that the same idiots damning TH for their coverage of a positive Conservative Black Man would lavish nothing but love on the Nation or the KOS for articles gushing about Barak Obama or MLK?"

Actually no you’re wrong. If that were the case I would be posting there all the time. Not here.

"Maybe the columnists at TH are writing lots of pieces about Justice Thomas BECAUSE THEY LIKED THE BOOK AND WANT TO PROMOTE IT"

It has nothing to do with that. From the moment I actually read some of the post on Townhall.Com, I have been compelled to fight the hate, misinformation, and lies that I have encountered in hopes that reasonable conservatives hear me.

When I see posters comparing Al sharpton to Barack Obama I have a problem; When I see people posting things like "blacks are lazy" because of the platform they support, I have a problem; When I see the malicious distortions of African American history by townhall columnist and pandering blacks like Sowell and the like, I have a problem; when I see posters saying things like their was a connection between Saddam and 911, I have a problem.


I post to fight the malicious lies and distortions that are peddled on this website about various issues. If you really think liberals are "idiots" like many Th posters, you should go fight them on the Daily Kos, as I fight people like you on this website. That would actually be the challenging thing to do.

Spite vs. criticism
Jet Pilot and Lilly, thanks for showing us spitefulness so we can see how it differs from honest criticism. You accuse him of being bitter without citing one example. You accuse him of being arrogant, but cite no examples. The accusation of his having “personal issues” is really cheap. It is unfounded and unworthy of public debate.

The notion that imposing consequences prove a lack of empathy is unclear thinking. The law should be a vehicle for doing what is right. The examples Lilly cited are things which could seem inappropriate taken out of context, but in the law, context is a crucial consideration. Empathy means truly understanding how another person feels and then doing what is best for all concerned. Sometimes what is best for all is not what the individual wants.

Racism is real, and no amount of posturing or bureaucratic affirmative action will make it disappear. Decent human beings treating one another with dignity and respect is what will end racism, providing a stark contrast to the ugliness that is racism.

Concerning Justice Thomas’s having allegedly benefited from affirmative action, would someone explain to me how a program that began in 1977 could benefit someone admitted to Yale in 1971? His views on affirmative action are that “…it does blacks more harm than good in the aggregate.”

Affirmative action as it is currently practiced creates a permanent entitlement of money and recognition for its recipients, without regard to ability or effort. Over time, that leads to an erosion of the work ethic and a sense that success is purely a matter of random luck, and that personal effort has nothing to do with it. That attitude in turn leads to embittered feelings of victimhood among a large segment of the population. Does this sound familiar to anyone besides me?

quickie quiz
Q: Who said it?

'In a 1995 interview with the Sacramento Bee, he defended affirmative action explaining that without it "THERE ARE UNIVERSITIES IN CALIFORNIA THAT COULD FILL THEIR ENTIRE FRESHMAN CLASSES WITH NOTHING BUT ASIAN-AMERICANS."

A: Bill Clinton

Source - 'OK, Let's Finally Talk Honestly About Race', Charles Krauthammer, Chicago Tribune June 23, 1997

free man
"Thanks. As you can see by Mr. Thomas' response that his arguments are the typical left rhetoric"


If facts equate to "left rhetoric", then, so be it. There is nothing that I have posted that isn't true. If there is something that I have posted that isn''t true,please provide your facts.

anthony
explain why there is any need for further affirmative action programs. The great society of lyndon johnson was supposed to end all those barriers that plagued society. Yet 40 plus years after those bills passed it appears that aa will not end for as justice o'connor proposed before leaving the court that it continue for at least 25 more years. MLK envisioned a world where people would be judged on character not color. AA if it continues for the proposed 20 plus more years only talk of a country where aa determines opportunity and nothing else. It would seem that this is the only criteria that determines whether or not blacks can achieve. But it is also a two edged sword. Blacks who find success will always suffer from the under current that alone they could not succeed but rather rose to success merely because aa gave they an advantage they were unable to earn on their own

Anthony -- There Are Only Two Ways
-- to look at it.

Is he competent to be a Justice on the Supreme Court? Yes? or No?

Keep in mind we're talking the highest court in the land. You can't say "sure, he's bright"; we're talking BRIGHT here. Being competent to marry people in a Las Vegas drive-through chapel don't count here.

Was he competent to get into and subsequently graduate from Yale? Yes? or No?

If the answer is Yes, HE DIDN'T NEED AA. If the answer is No, HE SHOULDN'T BE WHERE HE IS.

If the answer is Yes, AA is (at best) another useless policy that makes liberals "feel good" about themselves, without really accomplishing anything. If the answer is No, the AA is (at worst) putting incompetent people into positions where they don't belong, setting them up for eventual failure.

That's the problem. AA is bad regardless of which answer you choose. And there are *only* two possible answers.

And even if you try to argue that he's fully competent but wouldn't have gotten in without AA (suggesting that Yale is so racist they'd bite their own backside to keep blacks out, were it not for AA, and/or that everyone along his career in a position to promote him was similarly racist -- both positions being provably false), then AA GENERATES THE PERCEPTION that blacks in high position are incompetent, and could not be there on the strength of their own hard work and intelligence.

Don't you think blacks have enough to worry about, working hard, getting ahead, climbing over obstacles, without all their hard work being summarily discounted?

Just like people discount Clarence Thomas -- clearly, if he had any brains he'd be a liberal, right? So there y'go, AA has given you exactly what we warned you about, so many years ago; an incompetent supreme court justice (i.e., conservative).

Plato's Republican
"Concerning Justice Thomas’s having allegedly benefited from affirmative action, would someone explain to me how a program that began in 1977 could benefit someone admitted to Yale in 1971?"

Get your facts straight, It began in the 60's.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761580666_1/Affirmative _Action.html#S1

Also it was not just about is college attendence, it was also his employment post graduation in various agencies.

Tony Tommy
Please do us ALL a big favor and provide PROOF of posters citing the racist filth you prescribe they do. Names, dates, etc... Personal observation is that most of the racism is perceived. But I may be wrong - pretend I am from Missouri - Show me!

You refer to Thomas Sowell as "pandering". I am truly curious. How is he pandering? What defintion do you use? While I don't agree with all his writings, I do find him to be intelligent and well-thought out.

As for fighting liberals on sites such as the Daily Kos. It's not possible. I have been banned on two occasions for just ASKING QUESTIONS of other posters to clarify their statements for me. You can't fight a battle if you are not allowed on the battlefield. On the other hand - enjoy your battle on TH. We may not agree with you but you have a voice.

Thank You
Dr. Sowell. I will be purchasing this book ASAP. This thread has been interesting. On one hand, we have Free Man with the insight and wisdom that only age and experience can provide and on the other hand, AT is back defending handouts and set-asides. Tell me AT, how can you decry racism in the 50's and 60's by whites (against blacks) but turn around and defend racist programs like AA that give blacks an unfair advantage over whites? How can you defend govt. handouts like welfare, free health care, etc. that have have caused the catastrophic destruction of the black family unit? Why do you support AA? Is it on the basis that you believe that blacks are unable to compete equally with whites and asians and must be given an unfair advantage? What does that say about any goals that you have achieved? When will it all be enough? When can we finally put all of that behind us and try to live as MLK intended? What is the "final payoff" that you are looking for, what is it that the American people owe you that will finally curb your need for special treatment? Nam 65-66- a spew alert next time, please.

Question for A.A. Opponents..
"Have white males not received in past and continue to recieve presently "preferential
treatment" in u.s. society?"

Hiya, mrs Paddy!
I look forward to reading it all the more then.

The other thing I came away with from the interviews is he is just plain down to earth and genuine, so unlike so many politicians in DC. How he keeps himself separate from that is remarkable and reassuring.

(BTW. Got Uncommon Descent. Read the Denton paper so far. Very interesting. Verges on emrgent behavior, or what Hayek would call spontaneous order.)

Anthony Thomas
The problem is, either you do not know or are willingly distorting the truth yourself. The basis for your arguments are from a position of victimology, classism, and socialism that only serve the group think mentality that the liberals want to impose on the country. People like Dr. Sowell and Justice Thomas are not panderers. Who are they pandering to? They go about their lives regardless of what anyone may say about them good or bad. They are just sharing their experiences and thoughts in hopes that others may learn a little more about who they are as 1) Americans 2)Black men. They are not seeking elected office, they are not trying to make anyone be anything other than the best that individual can be... without the help of the government or anyone else other than God and family.

Wildwest
"explain why there is any need for further affirmative action programs"

The mainstream white establishment is still racist against blacks. Abolishing Affirmative Action will allow mainstream white America to continue its discriminatory practices without repercussions. The only reason blacks have some of things we have today, is because it is illegal for whites to discriminate against us.

"MLK envisioned a world where people would be judged on character not color"

Well this is what he said:

"Whenever the issue of compensatory treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree; but he should ask nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic.A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for the Negro" to compete on a just and equal basis"

Martin Luther King

"Blacks who find success will always suffer from the under current that alone they could not succeed but rather rose to success merely because aa gave they an advantage they were unable to earn on their own"

That's your racism not ours. African Americans rarely think that other successful African Americans only achieve because of Affirmative Action. That's what some white people think of blacks, not what black’s think of blacks. You guys have to deal with your own perception of African Americans, we have enough to deal with.



peso george
Does not care if there are different religions, he just wants them all to live under one world government!

HUNTER 2008!
http://www.gohunter08.com


peso george:
borders? We don’t need no stinking borders!

left dangle
make your case with examples rather than throwing out a baseless accusation. Prior to the lib nonsense of rectifying what they viewed as unfair by pushing to impliment programs that made pc decisions rather than making decision based on merit and actual accomplishment. Putting unqualified candidates into any program doesn't guarantee success but insures failure. But the libs also have the answer to get areound that. They merely lower the barrier to judge success

Lonestarblues
Hi back. I'm sure you'll enjoy My Grandfather's Son....much easier reading than Uncommon Dissent LOL. I have to set it aside now and again because it makes my head hurt! Ha.

From what I read in his book, though, I'd say Clarence Thomas is the real deal and I'd love to meet him in person someday. It is, indeed, a major accomplishment to maintain his private life and dignity in the Swamp.

Enjoy!

Anthony Thomas
OK

1) No one ever said Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. That was a lie of the left, but it is known that Saddam was meddling in the Isreali/Palistinian conflict by paying $25,000 to families of suicide bombers. Do you think he would not do the same for the Taliban in Afghanistan against the Allies? Or in Pakistan against Mushariff?

2) Since Al Qaeda is in mainly every country throughout the Middle East and Southeast Asia, do you actually believe that they were not in Iraq or had any contact with Saddam before 9/11?

3) Saddam attempted to assassinate a sitting US President and shot at our planes in the UN Sanctined No Fly zones. Are these acts not acts of war?

CVN65
"Tell me AT, how can you decry racism in the 50's and 60's by whites (against blacks) but turn around and defend racist programs like AA that give blacks an unfair advantage over whites"

Black people cannot impose racism on whites in any form or fashion. We have no power to do that. And African Americans have no advantage over whites in any form or fashion in this country. You hire yourselves, employ yourselves, and admit yourselves to the most prestigious colleges and Universities. African Americans are not the gatekeepers of America, and all Affirmative action gives us is token presence in establishments that mostly whites dominate.

"How can you defend govt. handouts like welfare, free health care, etc. that have have caused the catastrophic destruction of the black family unit?"

None of this has caused the breakdown in the black community, blacks own individual failures have.

"Is it on the basis that you believe that blacks are unable to compete equally with whites and asians and must be given an unfair advantage"

No, it is on the basis that Blacks have historically been hated by whites, and there is not sufficient evidence to suggest this has changed.

"What does that say about any goals that you have achieved?"

I know what it says to me. The question is what does it say to you.

"When can we finally put all of that behind us and try to live as MLK intended? "

Well a start is when people like you stop trying to destroy Affirmative action.


Repubs/Cons Practice "Tokenism"
tokenism:

"Tokenism refers to a policy or practice of limited inclusion of members of a minority group, usually creating a false appearance of inclusive practices, intentional or not."

face it repubs/cons, people such as Thomas, Rice,
Powell, Steele and Sowell, etc. black conservatives, are convient "tokens" trumped up by your the republican party to show a false face of "diversity", when nothing could be further from the truth. Repubs/cons are notoriously hostile to minorities and their agendas.

Truth be told such persons as thomas, rice, powell, steele and sowell are actually rank
"opportunist". they know that if they remained within the ranks of democrats, they would be
one of many standouts among minorities..by becoming "black republican conservatives" they have a tendency more to "stand out" because
of the lack of minorities in the repulican party,
and they know it. In a sense, it's a great career move. becoming a black conservative republican that is.

Question for AA Proponents
quoth Left Angle:
"Have white males not received in past and continue to receive presently 'preferential treatment' in US society?"

Whether true or not, how is this relevant to the future?

Anthony -- still --
"Black people cannot impose racism on whites in any form or fashion. We have no power to do that."

That is complete nonsense. (I had another word in mind, but TH would censor it.)

"And African Americans have no advantage over whites in any form or fashion in this country. You hire yourselves, employ yourselves, and admit yourselves to the most prestigious colleges and Universities."

And so you're saying there are ZERO blacks in positions to hire, employ, or admit?

Again, complete nonsense.

"African Americans are not the gatekeepers of America,"

America has no gatekeepers, except in your own mind. If you set out to do something, nobody, NOBODY can stop you.

Left Angle
What would you call Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton? Who the Democratic party has set up as theer race attack dogs.

How many blacks did Bill Clinton have in high positions? How many does Hillary have?

Your token argument is lame.

LOL the Race Baiters have arrived
I see while I was at the doctor's office this morning the race baiters have arrived. Ellisson and A. Thomas. Category 5 of the liberals from yesterday. OK guys, since ya'll don't believe in the 14th amendment and the 1964 civil rights act, through your own words, then lets repeal them.

And Ellison, if by some very unfortunate happening Clarence Thomas was afflicted with dementia in his old age, Anita Hill wouldn't be fit to clean the drool from ether end of his body.

Uncle Alby: a response...
notice to to many people on the right answered the question a asked?

Why is that?

Because they KNOW that the U.S. is a "white male
preferenced/superiorty" dominated society. that is simply a fact of life. thats the pecking order
here in the U.S. Simply put white males dont spend to much time thinking about it because, its simply something that is their birthright and they take it for granted that the best of everything is there for the taking.

Reverse discrimination is a joke...the "good ole boy" connection among white males continues to exist to this day as does "institutional racism". the only difference in todays society is that it's done in a much more subtle fashion.

it's revelant to the future as long as repubs/cons "pretend" it no longer exist.

Destruction of Black Families
CVN65: ''How can you defend govt. handouts like welfare, free health care, etc. that have have caused the catastrophic destruction of the black family unit?''

AT: ''None of this has caused the breakdown in the black community, blacks own individual failures have.''

This phenomenon was helped along by the welfare programs that encouraged out-of-wedlock births and paternal abandonment; by paying for it.

You get more of what you subsidize -- Econ 101.

Of course, out-of-wedlock births and paternal abandonment leads to all sorts of problems.

Indeed, these "individual failures" you speak of did not happen at explosive rates UNTIL the welfare programs got under way. Before then, blacks enjoyed strong family connections.

Blacks *still* enjoy strong family connections, strong religion, strong work ethic; but only where there is no welfare dependency.

Welfare robs people of this self-sufficiency.

Why this is surprising to anyone remains a mystery.

Left Angle -- You are being Disingenuous
LA: "notice to to many people on the right answered the question a asked?"

This is disingenuous. How many people are sitting by their keyboards waiting for questions to be answered?

How many liberals have answered MY question?

I remember asking Anthony Thomas, or anyone else by extension of the medium, a few pointed questions. It was three days and twice more asking before he finally broke down to answer.

Unca Alby
Look Unca Alby, I'm not even going to debate you if you don't think that whites control this country. I admitted in my post that blacks have token presence, and yes, if you want to say that for every 10000 white Corporate CEOS, there maybe one black one, fine. If you want to say out of the 100 senators an in Congress, we have yes one (WOW) ok. But let’s not play this silly game and pretend that whites don't rule, control, and run this county. This is just a simple fact. It has nothing to do with your perception or mine in any form or fashion.

Lilly - last night - Oh, forget it......

...You would never understand anyhow. You don't have it in you to understand. You never had someone to teach you discipline, or if you did it was by hitting you in the head instead of on the arse.

So your parents and grandparents did a poor job of raising you. Well, you have company. The absolutely worst president in our history also had a Mamuh, who did a p!ss poor job of raising him, Jimah Catuh. He was raised by an avowed socialist bordering on communist who got him educated, but standing on his head when it comes to reality. Yes, you do have a couple of fine examples to look up to. Why don't you and Jimah go out together on your next trip to say, Venezuela, and stay there for a few years.


Left Angle -- on Questions and Answers
LA: ''Reverse discrimination is a joke...the "good ole boy" connection among white males continues to exist to this day as does "institutional racism". the only difference in todays society is that it's done in a much more subtle fashion.''

Well it must not be so subtle, since you're so sure it exists that you'll be able to give me a nice long list of examples, yes?


LA: ''it's revelant to the future as long as repubs/cons "pretend" it no longer exist.''

Point to anybody, anywhere, at ANY time, who ever said that racism "doesn't exist."

What has been said -- REPEATEDLY -- is that racism is NO LONGER A SERIOUS OBSTACLE TO SUCCESS. *Especially* in America. More so in America than probably anywhere else on the planet.

That, being one of my questions to Anthony Thomas -- to give me a list of concrete examples -- his very best, most sincere response was, "Oh, well, they WATCH ME in the convenience store like I'm a criminal or something!"

Oh, well, excuuuuuuuuuuuse ME! In this day and age, you can BUY the danged convenience store, then run it any way you like!

I'm not looking for examples where racism is "inconvenient" -- there are plenty of examples of that -- I'm looking for examples where somebody has to clean out the toilets because "The Man" won't let him use his Degree in Mechanical Engineering. Or examples where somebody can not get a degree in Mechanical Engineering because "The Man" says he's supposed to be cleaning out toilets.

Not a race debate...
This article was written by a great man (Dr. Sowell) about a great man (Clarence Thomas), but for some reason it has become a race debate.

Juan Williams, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder, Armstrong Williams, Michael Steele, Barak Obama (to name a few)...these are men who followed the "Cosby" model for black advancement in America. You dont' hear these men whining about racism. Those of you that want to follow the Sharpton/Jackson/gang rapper model...go ahead. You're doing more to keep racism alive than anyone and you're keeping yourselves down.

Anthony - - -
AT: "Look Unca Alby, I'm not even going to debate you if you don't think that whites control this country."

So, you surrender AGAIN?

Gee, you're no challenge at ALL!

Seriously ---

It's not a matter of "who 'controls' this country." This is a Capitalist (mostly) country. Nobody is in "control."

Again, in playing the quota game ("Oh my, there aren't enough black senators!"), you're using the tired old "Equal Results" nonsense again. If Equal Opportunity is supposed to mean Equal Results, why aren't there 85% white players in the NBA? Come on.

Of course part of the problem is so many blacks do so poorly in K-12 -- and part of that problem is the public school system that doesn't expect anything from blacks. Blacks in private schools do much better -- and they get these degrees, and these jobs, and these CEO positions. Blacks who come here from Africa get these degrees, these jobs, and these CEO positions.

Then after they get those degrees, and those jobs, statistically they do JUST AS WELL as their white counterparts.

It's not racism keeping blacks down -- it's failed social policies you and other liberals don't want to let go of. When you see those policies fail, you just "blame racism" then ask for more of the same.

At some point you need to step outside this liberal mind-set and recognize what works and what doesn't work. Modern liberalism DOESN'T WORK.

Anita Hill
I remember listening to Anita's complaints all those years ago and thinking - so what?

I have worked with men all my life and I just didn't think her complaints were that big of a deal, even if true. Further, I didn't believe she would stay working with him, even follow him into a new postion, if she were so offended.

I have read many of Sowell's books and found them incredibly good. His thought process is brilliant. I really wish I could think and write like that.

Anthony
So whites run the country. Granted. That means that whites have screwed up black Americans. Right.??.

Good to have somebody to blame for all those failures. Now if the "Rev's Jackson and Sharpton ran the country and not some conservative blacks everything would be just fine. Right.??.

Just where do you stand.??. Some people believe you pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. Course we have examples like the Kennedy family where they only have to show up more sober than drunk to have a seat in congress.

So what do you think about all the unemployed Black Americans with little chance of a half way decent job because the Migrant foreigners have taken them.??. Just what do you believe or believe in.??.


orlandocajun -- on Race Debates
"Not a race debate..."

Of course it's a race debate.

Liberals get their shorts in a bunch any time they see a successful black conservative. They can not FATHOM how it could be POSSIBLE for ANYBODY, least of all a BLACK person, to be conservative.

And so -- almost on cue -- the accusations of pandering, "House Negro", etc., will begin to fly. Liberals will complain about how much money Sowell makes at the Hoover Institute -- and ignore how much money ANY prominent Democrat makes (generally a lot more, but nevermind that!)

Which, if it hadn't turned into a race debate for other reasons yet, will certainly turn it into one then. It never fails.

Actually, I'm rather surprised that no one has actually come out and thrown the "uncle tom" epithets yet. Too soon, I suppose.

Unca Alby
In fact I'll take this a step closer prove this. In 2000 when George Bush was "elected", every single African American in congress objected to his election due to voter black disenfranchisement in Florida.

At the time, there were no African American senators in office. The Blacks in Congress needed the signature of ONE senator to contest the election of George W Bush. Not one senator, democratic or republican came to the aid of the African American community, or the African Americans in Congress. This was a slap in the face to African Americans. But more importantly it is an example of how powerful whites are, and how powerless blacks can be. As I said earlier, blacks havetoken presence, but whites rule this country.

Affirmative In-Action ...
One need only read the comments from the Left to this article to appreciate the extent to which the Left is driven by the very stereotypes, prejudices, judgementalism and ad hominem arguments they otherwise so self-righteously preach against in the rest of us.

Given the enthusiasm with which the officials of our institutions of higher learning eagerly implement Affirmative Action by giving preferential treatment to the admission of blacks because they are black it is impossible to make the case that without affirmative action these same officials would then deny admission to blacks because they are black.

The problem blacks face in admission to institutions of higher learning is not racism in the admissions process but whatever has been the root cause for their not being otherwise as qualified to gain admission on the basis of academic merit as has their competition. This can and does affect applicants of any ethnicity. To the extent that racism in their prior education may be a primary cause for it disproportionately afflicting blacks, the effort needs to be placed on overcoming such racism where it occurs and not compensating for it after the fact with reverse racism where racism does not otherwise obtain.

I could better accept affirmative action in college admissions as an interim compensation for past sins if those who were promoting it were as concerned with correcting its true causes as they are with compensating for them after the fact. Once blacks have available to them an equal opportunity to gain as good an education as have those of any other ethnicity the need for affirmative action in college admissions would disappear within twelve years. That is less time than affirmative action has already been practiced.

Jan -- My Thoughts Exactly
Jan writes:
"Anita Hill
I remember listening to Anita's complaints all those years ago and thinking - so what?"

My thoughts exactly. I'll ask again -- what exactly is Clarence Thomas supposed to have done that's so horribly wrong? Tell dirty jokes?

Well, I'm glad *I'm* not running for office, coz I used to tell some whoppers. And the ladies were the ones who laughed the loudest.

Anthony -- Disenfranchisement
AT: "In 2000 when George Bush was "elected", every single African American in congress objected to his election due to voter black disenfranchisement in Florida."

Which was a completely baseless accusation that was never proven. It wasn't proven because it didn't happen.

Name *ONE* person came forward and claimed that they were not allowed to vote. Not *inconvenienced* now -- again, this "watches me like I'm a criminal" stuff doesn't count -- but actively *prevented* from voting.

In the mean-time, Al Gore tried everything he could to prevent the absentee ballots from being counted, knowing that most of them were from the military, and the military tend to vote Republican. And also demanding recounts in mostly Democratic districts -- the Panhandle, for example, tends to vote Republican, and they didn't ask for any recounts *there*.

AND -- several news media outlets went down to Florida and FINISHED THE COUNT. They looked at all the "dimpled chads" and "pregnant chads" and everything else, and as it turns out, out of TEN POSSIBLE WAYS OF COUNTING, there was only ONE that might have pointed to a Gore victory.

So -- at least try to get your facts straight.

Anthony Thomas
You say whites run this country, that was true at one point in time, but since we are talking about 2007... This country is run by the making of money. You will be hard pressed to fnd any employer who would not hire a person regardless of who that person is if they thought that person could make them and/or their company money. At least that is the way it is in the private sector. Now in the public sector it is a different story. AA has done wonders to put people into jobs that they do not deserve. Been to the Department of Motor Vehicles lately? Been to a public school lately? Many of the people that exist in these jobs no matter what their color is could not last in the private sector. The private sector is driven by results period. If you demonstrate to an employer that you have what it takes to make them money and/or be successful at what you do, you wil have a job. AA does not make people successful. Hard work does.

Unca Alby
You have completely changed the debate. My original point was that blacks have no power to discriminate against whites. You called this "nonsense". Now you are saying I'm asking for "equal results" and so fourth. I wasn't even concentrating on that. That's a totally different angle and debate.

Anthony Thomas
Blacks make up about 10% of the U.S. population. Yea, whites control the country. Should we abandon our democracy to suit your race agenda? If the ratios were reversed, of course blacks would control the country.

You have to admit, all of the positive strides towards racial equality were then made in large part by whites. You sound to me like the biggest racist on this site, and ironically, you claim that it's impossible for blacks to discriminate against whites.

Liberalism to Conservatism
Like Thomas, I was also a liberal in my youth. During the confirmation hearings, I took joy in watching the panel of Senators condemn this man. I thought it was funny. I thought it was great material for Saturday Night Live. One of the counterpoints I heard to those hearings, an argument that formed a phase in my gestation cycle to Conservatism, was that these Senators could not defeat the prospective jurist on merit. Due to this fact, went the counterpoint, they decided to invoke character assasination. I paid little attention to the counterpoint. The Senate panel was issuing compelling material that backed up my rock and roll credo of the time that everyone was doing it, so why can't I? The counterpoint lacked titillation. It was boring and endless. Then, Thomas hit the floor with his passionate rebuttal. I watched the entire rebuttal without moving a muscle. Could it be that rock and rollers were wrong? Could SNL be wrong? Could everything I've thought be wrong? As I said, this moment didn't instantly change my way of thinking, but it was a large cinder block in the foundation to the transformation.

Unca Alby
"Which was a completely baseless accusation that was never proven. It wasn't proven because it didn't happen."

Well once again, you've swayed from the original point. My point was not to debate results of the Florida coup, but to show how powerful whites are in relation to blacks. Once again, you avoid the main point I'm trying to make.

Well since you bring this up:
"Name *ONE* person came forward and claimed that they were not allowed to vote"

There were hundreds of complaints in florida , mainly black neighborhoods about poor, inefficient voting machines, people being knocked off their registration for asanine reasons, etc. Do I know the all names of the thousands of individuals in Florida who came forward , obviously not. but you need to get your facts together. In fact, provide them as I do:

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_681500368_1/Disputed_Pr esidential_Election_of_2000.html#S3

Anthony - -
AT: ''Unca Alby
You have completely changed the debate. My original point was that blacks have no power to discriminate against whites. You called this "nonsense".''

Ooooo kaaaaay ---

How is it NOT nonsense?

The only way your statement makes sense would be if there were NO black business owners, NO black politicians, NO black taxicab drivers, NO black CEO's, etc.

Then you could say "whites rule this country." As it is, no you can not say that.

But let's take it at face value -- let's suppose you're right, and there's some cabal of whites with the intent of keeping blacks down -- WHERE are their efforts being successful?

What is keeping YOU from saving up your money and buying a Burger King franchise? What is keeping YOU from buying a dilapidated, run-down house, fixing it up and selling it for a profit? What is keeping YOU from starting a business selling useless knick-knacks on Ebay? What is keeping YOU from running for mayor, assemblyman, governor, senator? And maybe even winning, as so many have indeed done?


AT: 'Now you are saying I'm asking for "equal results" and so fourth.''

When you whine about how many black senators there are, then yes.

Unca Alby: I stand corrected...
I cant point to a single "concrete" example of racial discrimination in the U.S., it's all a figment of my imagination..

furthermore I have come around to the repub/con
view on race in the U.S. that:

"racial discrimation in the U.S. is a thing of the past. The U.S. is a colorblind society where each person is judged on the content of their character, their abilities and qualifications.
The fact that the vast majority of minorites support the democratic party is because they
make promises to them and deliver handouts in
return for their vote thru govt. entitlement programs. the bottom line is that blacks and hispanics are basically lazy and do not believe in "hard work".

In fact most hispanic and black males are criminals, that commit most of the violent
crime in the U.S. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are the face of black leaders in the U.S. who are actually "race hustlers" who use the "race
card" of victimization at every turn.

White male dominance of america is just another excuse.


thanks ucle alby for making me see the light.

lmao

Rilaly
Welcome to the Matrix my friend.

Anthony - - - Cool Down Period
Anthony, I like you. You argue honestly and without the ad homenim that so permeates these threads. So let me apologize up front if I sounded harsh at any point. This impersonal forum makes it easy to sound angry and start into personal attacks and what-not. I do not intend that, but re-reading some of my posts, I think I might have started down that road.

So I'm going to take a cool down period, and let you have the floor. Enjoy.

Unca Alby
"let's suppose you're right, and there's some cabal of whites with the intent of keeping blacks down"

I never said anything like this. Once again, changing the debate. My original point was that whites have more power than blacks and that blacks do not have the power to discriminate againt whites.Only tokenism is accepted. That's it. Thats all I was saying.

A T & the other Liberals posting
It's obvious you hate republicans first & then any other conservative; especially black ones.

Who was the democrat President who first closed down segregated schools in Little Rock, Arkansas.whoo ???
Oh thats right it was President Eisenhower, but he was a Republican! Can't be can it?

Please for once get off the socialist play book page what ever. AA as a concept in its time was a tremendous Idea,but as with most government programs; It soon became a farce.
BTH AT quite asking every one to define their positions, how about you define yours fore once, other than platitudes.

Left Angle - - -
LA: "I cant point to a single "concrete" example of racial discrimination in the U.S., it's all a figment of my imagination."

Well it's about time you came out and admitted it!

Also add the thing about the failed liberal policies that cause out-of-wedlock babies, paternal abandonment, etc., that leads to crime in the inner city, that leads to a disproportionate number of minorities being incarcerated.

Also add the drug war which also leads to much the same result.

You forgot that point. If you're gonna come clean, you gotta come clean on everything. Otherwise, I'll think you're just being sarcastic, instead of actually trying to seriously answer the question.

Or -- were you going to opine that because 12% of the population is black, that any more than 12% of the prison population being black indicates systemic racism? More than 12% of the criminals being black has got nothing whatsoever to do with it, huh?

Maybe what we need is prison Affirmative Action -- and lock up 85 white people for every 12 blacks -- and while we're at it, lock up one female for every time we lock up one male.

Yah, there y'go! That's makes as much sense as most other liberal "feel-good" policies!

Oh wait, you *were* being sarcastic, weren't you? Gee, you really had me going there for a bit.

free man
I hope you understand that I will never tolerate the language you used to attack me. Better check yourself.

And what does your g-greandpa have to do with anything?

As far as Clarence, who really cares????

Tom/Rush/TH/60 Min helped Clarence sell books. Great job!!


Anthony Thomas
Anthony, I still do not understand your use of the word "tokenism'. Affirmitive Action does nothing to combat that. Matter of fact it perpetuates it. Mostly in the public sector. With AA, all an employer has to do is hire a minority in some low level position, to fill a quota. It does not guarantee any promotion or success within the company or organization.

If you take a look at the need for high skilled labor in this country, any employer who still tried to practice any sort of discrimination would more or less find themselves out of business. I know in my profession (which is technical) we have a very tough time filling high paying positions with any qualified person white or black. My employer has done a great job in hiring blacks that are qualified to hold their positions in accounting, engineering, project management and installation/service. But it still comes down to one thing...hard work. If they do not perform they are replaced with the best person that can be found.

AT
Don't these people at TH get tiring. Leave it alone. Let them wallow in their ignorance.

As for baseballdoc, he sure nuff is a racist. No doubt about it. Then he has the nerve to atttack us as being "unfair" to him as if he is a victim. I think he suffers from a "trailer park mentality". I don't have patience for people like him. That goes for len too.

I've got a story for you about him. I'll save that for later. It will crack you up!!!! Really shows you the "man" he is.

Also, what happened to your Phillies???? Lol!!!

C Thomas = achiever; A Thomas = loser
Welcome to half the Twilight Zone --- For your consideration; on Town Hall today we have two men; both black; both intelligent; both surnamed Thomas. One of these men has attained the pinnacle of the legal profession - Supreme Court Justice. The other, an unknown named Anthony, has attained... what?

Apparently all Anthony has been able to attain is a feeling of jealousy and envy toward the other Thomas. A sad human being, this Anthony Thomas; so much potential wasted on bitter invective directed toward a man whom he has probably never even met.

ANTHONY!! Wake up! Get out of the Twilight Zone and go DO something with your life! The opportunities in this country are LIMITLESS for a bright man of color like yourself. Go to school! Learn to spell! MAKE something of yourself! If C Thomas can do it, A Thomas can do it!!

You're welcome...

Racism not color-blind
Racism is "enjoyed" by members of all three races (and their various sub-races).
(KKK Byrd, Louis Farrakhan, & those involved in 9/11 are examples of racists from each of the three races.)

phileo
"ANTHONY!! Wake up! Get out of the Twilight Zone and go DO something with your life! The opportunities in this country are LIMITLESS for a bright man of color like yourself. Go to school! Learn to spell! MAKE something of yourself! If C Thomas can do it, A Thomas can do it!!"


Ok, I don't know how to really take this post. There insults mixed in with compliments. So I do thank you for the compliments. However.... last time I checked, I could spell, I did graduate from college, and I do posses a job and have made something of myself. So as far as your suggestions, I have done those things you have asked of me, your welcome, lol.

Ralph ellison
"Also, what happened to your Phillies???? Lol!!!"


lol, ah man, its a depressing time here in Philadelphia, all our sports teams are blowing it. I'm sure your preety happy about the Redskins so far though.

WHO ARE THE RACISTS?

.....COLOSSUS SPEAKS ...

...Q. ...Who are the racists?

...A. ...A person who feels comfortable among and prefers to be in the company of his own ethnic cultural group to the exclusion of all others ...

...B. ...A person who believes that his race is superior to or inferior to others ...

...C. ...A person who uses his race as a weapon to gain advantage over or to harm others ...

...D. ...All of the above ...

.....If the answer was D ...

.....is it possible for a person of any ethnic classification not to be a racist? ...

...Yes ...No ...

.....COLOSSUS

anti-social, for your information...
There is only ONE race - the human race. I extend my personal invitation for you to join.

You're welcome...

Unca Alby
"This impersonal forum makes it easy to sound angry and start into personal attacks and what-not"

Believe me I undersatnd. I always have a target on my back due to my views.