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Tuesday, September 04, 2007
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
No "Health Care"?
by Thomas Sowell
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


During the first 30 years of my life, I had no health insurance. Neither did a lot of other people, back in those days.

During those 30 years, I had a broken arm, a broken jaw, a badly injured shoulder, and miscellaneous other medical problems. To say that my income was below average during those years would be a euphemism.

How did I manage? The same way everybody else managed: I went to doctors and I paid them directly, instead of paying indirectly through taxes.

This was all before politicians gave us the idea that the things we could not afford individually we could somehow afford collectively through the magic of government.

When my jaw was broken, I was treated in an emergency room and was given a bill for $50 -- which was like a king's ransom to me at the time, 1949. But I paid it off in installments over a period of months.

Like most young people, I was lucky enough not to have any heavy-duty medical expenses that would have required major operations or a long hospital stay.

That is still true for most young people today, which is why many people in their twenties do not choose to pay for medical insurance, even when they can afford it.

They know that, in an emergency, they can always go to an emergency room. And today the idea that you ought to pay for that out of your own pocket is considered almost quaint in some quarters.

It is not uncommon -- especially in California, with its large illegal immigrant population -- for hospitals to have to shut down because so few people pay for the emergency room care they receive.

There are, of course, people with huge medical bills that they cannot possibly pay. Believe it or not, that also happened back before the modern welfare state.

Some hospitals -- whether public or private -- could absorb such costs, with the help of donors. There were people with polio living in iron lungs, which is why rich and poor alike gave money to the March of Dimes.

But that is very different from hospitals being stiffed every day by emergency room users whose only emergency is that they want to keep their money to spend on fun, instead of on doctors.

The biggest of the big lies in the "health care" hype is that a lack of insurance means a lack of medical care. The second biggest lie is that health care and medical care are the same thing.

Doctors cannot stop you from ruining your health in a hundred different ways, so statistics on everything from infant mortality to AIDS are not proof of a need for government to take over medical treatment.

Few people show the slightest interest in what has actually happened in countries with government-controlled medical care.

We are apparently supposed to follow those countries' example without asking about the months that people in those countries spend on waiting lists for medical treatments that Americans get just by picking up a phone and making an appointment.

It is amazing how many people seem uninterested in such things as why so many doctors in Britain are from Third World countries with lower medical standards -- or why people from Canada come to the United States for medical treatment that they could get cheaper at home.

Government price controls on pharmaceutical drugs are more of the same illusion of something for nothing.

People who are urging us to follow other countries that control the prices of medications seem uninterested in the fact that those countries depend on the United States to create new drugs, after they destroyed incentives to do so in their own countries.

Since it takes more than a decade to create a new drug, a politician can be elected president by hyping price controls on drugs, spend eight years in the White House, and be living in retirement before people start to notice that we no longer get the kinds of new medications that successively conquered deadly diseases in the past.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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BS Artist -- Paranoid
no bs artist writes:

"Unca Alby is paranoid!"

Unca Alby responds:

No, I'm only one noid.



no bs artist: "See why health care is so important conservative sheeple?"

Yes, it is far too important to leave to the control of government.

Call your congressman
I desperately need the Bush plan for a tax credit since I pay for 100 percent of my insurance. I am disabled with intractable pain. NO, I get no disability payments. Just the pain. I can type about a hour a day right after I inject.

Reality Check
Like many members of the Ultra Priviliged class, Mr Sowell, as a tenured Professor at a major university has what is known in the business as an "executive plan" for his insurance -- so called because only SR Vice Presidents and up get this plan. For him, unlike 98+ percent of insurance holders EVERYTHING is paid, no co-pay, no deductible. Just like Rush Limbaugh who stated the other day that a lot of us probably go to the doctor when we aren't even sick to read the "free magazines" since "someone else is paying for it". He also said recently that he showed up for an 11 oclock appointment and THE DOCTOR WAS WAITING FOR HIM! Why? he wondered do all those other people not just make an appointment instead of sitting there? Welllllll, the doctor doesn't cancel his whole morning because WE are coming. Then he moaned about having to fill in his medical history. BOY! what crap you people do to get something for free! ( The doctor AND a nurse helped him fill in the forms, poor baby. But I'm paying for it, why do I have to fill in these forms? They have nothing to do with insurance, MORON. ) I pay 575 a month for which I get TWO office visits a year with a 35 dollar co-pay. Once I use those up I start in fulfilling my FIVE THOUSAND DOLLAR DEDUCTIBLE!! Once that is fullfilled I only have to pay 40 percent of my charges. God forbid my doctor to whom I am REQUIRED BY STATE LAW to see every 30 days in order to get my pain medicine Rx renewed find out I have insurance. As it is I get a discount from the 230 dollar office charge. Of course, I DO get to read the JAMA he is nice enough to put out for us. Face it, Tom, you don't have a clue about the facts so write about something you understand. Old baseball statistics. Very old.

Unca Alby is paranoid!
What's the matter Unca Alby? Did your private, cheapskate HMO deny you the meds you so desperately need for your raving paranoia? Do you also see government black helicopters in the sky too? See why health care is so important conservative sheeple?

Universal healthcare works NOT
MagAodh writes: Monday, September, 10, 2007 5:09 PM

"Suck eggs

Universal healthcare works when the people using it pay into it, as my grandparents did when the NHS was formed. What causes the breakdown is freeloading immigrants who don't pay for the service and demand treatment. You know just like the illegal immigrants in the USA do."

Read a bit more on the UK system - the first thing that happened is that the escrowed surplus was used to keep the cost down, and facilities were left in disrepair and new ones weren't built when the surplus ran out. Then, it was too late to jump the premiums up to cover the shortfall and costs that rose due to inefficiencies in the physical plant.

I agree on the freeloaders, but that's not the initial problem. The government is NEVER more efficient at things private industry can do.

BS Artist Can't Help Himself
quoth BS artist: "I really haven't argued for or against socialized medicine."

Ah, so you noticed.

bsa: "All I tried to, conservative sheeple,"

As I've said, you just can't help yourself. All you've tried to do is spew invectives and insults. If it wasn't health care as topic, you'd spew insults and invectives over something else.

bsa: "is point out that health care/medical care has gotten very, very complicated since 1949."

Which is entirely BESIDE the point.

bsa: "In the good old days ... There were no complicated insurance forms, no co-payments, noco insurance, and no deductibles to worry about."

And how much of this is thanks to government involvement?

How much insurance would be involved if employers didn't have a tax break to purchase insurance? How much insurance would employers purchase if they didn't need it to attract employees? How much would they buy if there hadn't been a wage freeze that prevented employers from using higher wages to attract employees?

And, how much would a doctor's visit cost if it weren't for 85% of the population now being insured, and thus insulated from price increases in health care?

Government creates wage freeze -- creates tax breaks for employer-paid insurance -- creates a situation where people have come to EXPECT health insurance in lieu of wages -- add Medicare to the mix, where the government out-and-out PAYS for health care -- consumers have no idea (or interest) in cost savings --

What we have is a situation where consumers are doubly-insulated -- insulated from increases in health costs, thanks to insurance and Medicare, then insulated from increases in insurance costs, thanks to employers and taxpayers paying most of it.

-- and this CAUSES an inflationary spiral in both health and insurance costs.

THAT is the POINT.

It's not the complexity that causes problems -- it's the government involvement.

To set the record straight
I really haven't argued for or against socialized medicine. All I tried to, conservative sheeple, is point out that health care/medical care has gotten very, very complicated since 1949. In the good old days all you had to` was walk into your doctor's office, stick out your tongue and say "ahhhhh" and just pay a measly little fee for care. There were no complicated insurance forms, no co-payments, noco insurance, and no deductibles to worry about.

Suck eggs
So this person writes about health care in other countries but has never used it. Well, the stats he quotes for the UK apply equally to the USA. A quarter of doctors already here come from thirld world countries. The same problems that affect the NHS in the UK, plague the emergency rooms he mentions in the USA.

Universal healthcare works when the people using it pay into it, as my grandparents did when the NHS was formed. What causes the breakdown is freeloading immigrants who don't pay for the service and demand treatment. You know just like the illegal immigrants in the USA do.

No matter which healthcare system you use, both are broken by the freeloading immigrants coming to the UK and USA for better lives. Mr Sowell needs to do more research before spouting off on how much better the broken healthcare system is in the USA, than other broken healthcare systems in other countries.

Unca Alby
Thanks, but the parable was not mine. So if my stealing it, is enough permission for you to steal it....go ahead!

It was from a Dr. Hedges Lowell E. Hedges, a retired associate professor of teacher
education and a former superintendent of Elgin Local Schools.

I have no idea where Elgin is.

RD

Re: voice of reason...
PHASE 4 (paradise)
-Eliminate the FDA.
-Ban all government licensing schemes for doctors.

The practice of medicine is nothing but a state-sponsored guild that stifles the free market, innovation, and sound practices by cornering the market for medicine.

Speaking of Sowell on Medicare
quoth BS artist: "I bet he has great healthcare plan called Medicare."

If you'll check, you'll find that Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute in Stanford, Calif. He has also been an associate professor at UCLA, Brandeis University, and Cornell University, as well as an economist at the US Department of Labor.

Medicare? At a prestigious institution like Stanford? Highly unlikely.

BS Artist --
Must be suffering from some sort of psychosis that forces him to spew insults. We should pity the poor soul, rather than bothering to argue.

Then on the other hand, perhaps he comes here to vent. The Internet version of "kicking the dog." So by insulting everyone here, he is able to go to work and not insult his boss. In which case, we should charge him for the service.

Ultimate healthcare solution is ......
! For all the conservative sheeple that should solve the healthcare dilemma very nicely. At least there will be fewer conservatives to act like the whiny crybabies they are.

Realitydweller -- Great Parable!
I hope you don't mind if I steal it?

BS Artist Fails to Read
quoth BS artist: "As I suspected conservatives just want everyone to up and die."

I will refer you to my posting of Sunday, September, 09, 2007 6:44 PM regarding ''Typical Liberal "Arguments"''

''The main thrust [of liberal "arguments"] is that, without Government to supply the goods or services, or coerce others to supply according to its dictates, or pay for it all from the taxpayer funds, then those goods or services will not be available. It can not happen without Government to make it so.''

Well, one thing is certain. "no bs artist" certainly lives up to his self-admitted liberalism. Clearly, he believes that without government coercion, no good things can happen.

He is, as Larry Elder would put it, a "toe-tag liberal."

And, having made up his mind so he can no longer be confused by facts, it is futile attempting to convince him that his beloved government is the CAUSE of the health care problems. How can our beneficent and omniscient government, which so generously persuades us to be good (OR ELSE!), possibly be the CAUSE of our problems? Impossible! At least in the mind of liberals.

And -- I might add in passing -- he has YET to produce ONE rational argument in favor of socialized health care. This is why he can not run out of "ammo" or "gas" or whatever. Reason is limited. Insult, invective, ad homenim, and baseless accusations have an infinite supply.

...double post...
grrrr

Part 4
With that said, the young man sat down at his desk and continued to rub
his painful back. And I was silent in my chair. For I could visualize the
supposedly "free corn" being fed to our nation's people and our growing
addiction to the "free corn". And I could see the gate being slammed shut. We,
the people of the United States of America, because of our ignorance of history,
because of our addiction to the supposedly "free corn," could soon be prisoners
of liberal socialism.

As I ponder the building of the fences, I remember the old adage:

There is always free cheese in a mousetrap.


RD

Part 4
With that said, the young man sat down at his desk and continued to rub
his painful back. And I was silent in my chair. For I could visualize the
supposedly "free corn" being fed to our nation's people and our growing
addiction to the "free corn". And I could see the gate being slammed shut. We,
the people of the United States of America, because of our ignorance of history,
because of our addiction to the supposedly "free corn," could soon be prisoners
of liberal socialism.

As I ponder the building of the fences, I remember the old adage:

There is always free cheese in a mousetrap."

RD

Part 3
He said, "After the hogs get used to your free corn, you put up a length
of fence along one side of the feeding area. The hogs get used to it. You
keep giving them the corn. Then you put up another section of fence at right
angles to the first. You keep giving them the corn. The hogs get used to the
second fence. Then you put up another length of fence at right angles to the
second section. You now have a U-shaped fenced area. The hogs get used to that
section of the fence. You keep giving them free corn. Then you put another
section of fence with a gate in it, making a closed area except for the gate.
You keep giving them corn. Now, the hogs no longer are out in the fields,
working to find their own food. They keep coming into the area to eat the free
corn. They get used to the fenced area with the open gate. Then, one day you
slam shut the gate when the hogs are inside the fenced area. The wild hogs are
caught - they are your prisoners."

"This is what I see happening in America today! People are being offered free
corn by the government. People are being blind to the fences being built around
them by the liberals - the socialists - and that is what frightens me! Just
like it was happening in my homeland. The American people do not learn from
history. And history shows that socialism/communism does not work. Take note of
Russia. Has socialism been the best thing that ever happened to that country?
Absolutely not! But socialism is what the American people are being fed, and
they don't realize it. All they can focus on is the 'free corn.' They want
more and more of the free corn. And this free corn is being fed to us little by
little, and soon the gate will slam shut. I am very frightened, and also
amazed, that the American people don't see what is being fed us, and for what
purpose."
Continued below

Part 2
I understood then that the wild hogs were really the people of his native
country and that the free corn was the enticements that the Communists were
giving to the people.
"That's correct," the young man said. "Now, the hogs will not get anything
to eat unless you give them food. You are in control. They depend on you to feed
them, or they will starve. They can't get out into the fields and forests
anymore to find their own food. They have probably forgotten how, as it is. They
are your servants, your prisoners. They must obey you. Or else they starve."
"The hogs," he said, "were so accustomed to having the free corn, that
they ignored the building of the fences that would eventually trap them. When
the gate slammed shut, it was too late for them to realize what they had been
blind to. The free corn was enticing, so effortless to obtain, but eventually
the cause of their loss of freedom. The fence had been built; the gate had been
shut."
At this point in our conversation, the young teacher loudly exclaimed,
"So what?" I said. "That's normal for any animal."
Continued Below

Why Nationalized Anything is Bad Part 1
Here is something I was given by a friend a while back. Makes one think....maybe even a liberal....

"Several years ago I was supervising a beginning teacher in a city school
system. One day during our end-of-the-day feedback conference, the young man
gave a facial grimace and began to rub his back. I asked him if he had strained
his back in the school lab. After a long period of silence, he sat down at his
desk and explained that he had immigrated to the United States because of
political problems in his native country. The discomfort in his back was caused
by a bullet wound he had received while fighting the Communists who were trying
to take over his country's government.
Then he asked me a surprising question: "Dr. Hedges, do you know how to
catch a wild hog?" The question was completely out of context regarding the
day's classroom and lab teaching. I replied, "I'm not sure what you are talking
about. Tell me."
"First," he said, "you find out where the wild hogs are roaming and
feeding and then you put some corn out in the field. Soon they will come to eat
the corn. You keep putting out the free corn. More wild hogs keep coming to eat
the corn."


To be continued below....

no bs artist
has a good handle. If he were a real bs artist, at least his arguments would be attractive enough to be convincing to Barnum's suckers, but alas, they are indeed ugly!

Here:

"no bs artist writes: Sunday, September, 09, 2007 11:12 AM

This old horse just won't die
Greetings and salutations medically unenlightened sheeple. How many of you sheeple who hate government have medicare, medicaid or are collecting some sort of social security benefit? How many of your parents or even your grandparents are still alive thanks those evil entitlements called medicare, medicaid and social security????"

Why are these things called "entltiements" when the taxes taken from you for them are promoted as "insurance" premiums put in a "trust fund" to be returned to you as "earned benefits"? And why can't we choose to pay our premiums to a private company?

We conservatives would just like you liberals to "just up" and follow the Constitution, which happens to be the law of the land. May I suggest that you get some real art lessons and stop chewing on your crayons and marking up the walls?

BTW, how many question marks does it take to show that you are really puzzled?

RIP Unca Alby
As I suspected conservatives just want everyone to up and die. No need for any nasty old health care and the only ones who will make any money are the undertakers. OK which Republican candidate has put forth any type of plan to deal with health care? I want to know. Well????? I'm waiting. So we dump all those modern evils like Medicare and Social Security? Then what? Your capitalist utopia sounds really, really expensive. Only the rich get to live and the rest of us get to be remembered in the past tense. RIP Unca Albly.

4. Tort Reform
Some sort of "Loser Pays" situation to discourage frivolous lawsuits.

BS Artist Runs Out of -- Not Gas
bsa: "Why do you vote for conservatives and Republicans who basically give you the finger,"

You might have noticed that Republicans lost Congress in 2006, essentially because Conservatives are sick and tired of Republicans who act like Democrats.

bsa: "let you sheeple twist in the wind, and` screw you the remainder of the time!"

Continuing with the ad homenim.

bsa: "So far not one single Republican candidate has any ideas of what to do about health care"

Not entirely true.

bsa: "and Sowell is just plain stupid and ignorant!"

More ad homenim.

bsa: "I bet he has great healthcare plan called Medicare."

How much are you willing to bet? We can find out easily with a simple e-mail. There's a link right up there towards the top.

bsa: "If all you can do is` call me a few nasty names,"

Oh, you mean like "stupid", "ignorant", and "sheeple"? Now now, why would you think I would stoop to your level?

bsa: "then you're more pathetic that I thought. "

Oh, and add "pathetic" to the list of names I have NOT called YOU.

bsa: "Now who's running out of gas??????"

Well, GAS you've certainly got a lot of.

But I didn't say you would run out of gas. I said you'd run out rational arguments.

I'm still waiting to see you present even the FIRST one.

BS Artist wants Suggestions
bsa: "Well, what can I say,I'm just a miserable interfering liberal who thinks a little too much."

I have no argument with the "interfering liberal" labels, but I have to wonder about the "thinks" part.

bsa: "The problem with conservative sheeple like you"

ad homenim. absence of argument. still.

bsa: "is that every problem is black and white--there's nothing `in between."

It's the shades of gray that's killing us. We're trying to go to lighter shades (less government) and you're trying to go to darker shades (more government). Your way makes things worse.


bsa: "Pray tell me,` what great solution do conservatives have to the health care dilemma?"

1. Phase out Medicare & Medicaid
2. Phase out Social Security
3. Phase out employer tax breaks for health insurance.

The idea is to remove the insulation between the provider and consumer. The more insulation that is provided by government, the higher prices will go, and/or the worse the service will get. This has been demonstrated historically EVERY time it's been tried.

Even in your socialist paradises -- they are looking to free market alternatives because their socialized systems are KILLING them.

We should be learning from their mistakes, and avoiding the pothole they're already in.

Unca Alby
Well, what can I say,I'm just a miserable interfering liberal who thinks a little too much. The problem with conservative sheeple like `you is that every problem is black and white--there's nothing `in between. Pray tell me,` what great solution do conservatives have to the health care dilemma? Why do you vote for conservatives and Republicans who basically give you the finger, let you sheeple twist in the wind, and` screw you the remainder of the time! So far not one single Republican candidate has any ideas of what to do about health care and Sowell is just plain stupid and ignorant! I bet he has great healthcare plan called Medicare. If all you can do is` call me a few nasty names, then you're more pathetic that I thought. Now who's running out of gas??????

Typical Liberal "Arguments"
Poster "no bs artist" make the typical liberal BS arguments.

The main thrust is that, without Government to supply the goods or services, or coerce others to supply according to its dictates, or pay for it all from the taxpayer funds, then those goods or services will not be available.

It can not happen without Government to make it so.

Thus, statements like, "How many of your parents or even your grandparents are still alive thanks those evil entitlements called medicare, medicaid and social security????"

In other words, were it not for "Beneficent and Generous Government Mandates", the senior citizens of today would all be dead. Either from untreated disease or starvation.

Without Medicare to pay for granddad's health care, no one would.

Without Social Security to pay granddad's rent and buy his groceries, he'd be living in a cardboard box and eating dog food.

Such is the state of affairs in this day and age where people can not even imagine surviving without having the Government there to prop us up. To buy our milk for us. To fasten our safety belts for us. To school us. To show us the difference between Right and Wrong.

It is truly a sad state of affairs.

BS Artist Breaks Promise
BSartist: "This old horse just won't die"

You've broken your promise.


BSartist: "Greetings and salutations medically unenlightened sheeple."

So believing in government control constitutes "enlightenment"? How -- illuminating.

You should change your nom-de-blog to "No Freedom Artist", since that's what you advocate.


BSartist: "How many of you sheeple who hate government have medicare, medicaid or are collecting some sort of social security benefit?"

So because there is NO CHOICE whether or not to PAY INTO the system, means we're supposed to LIKE IT? How naive can you be?

BSartist: "How many of your parents or even your grandparents are still alive thanks those evil entitlements called medicare, medicaid and social security????"

My dad was on a privately funded pension until the day he died. He saved his nickels and pennies and accumulated a small fortune, most of which from his salary while working and private pension. His medical care was paid for by privately funded medical insurance, and he was very happy with it.

If he had had to depend solely on Social Security, he'd would be living with me or one of my siblings. Most people living solely on Social Security do not fare very well, unless they have family to take up the slack. My dad, with his private pension, was able to live in his own two-bedroom house.

My dad survived the Depression and fed and clothed 7 of us. He knew how to stretch a dollar. He had sense enough to make his own way in the world, and pride enough to do it on his own.

Unlike today's modern "welfare queen", which BS Artist wants all of us to become.


BSartist: "Are you ready to just chuck those evil entitlements in the trash that quickly?"

You dambetcha. Along with the taxes that fund it all. In a heartbeat. When we can spend our money according to OUR own wishes INSTEAD OF YOURS, then we'll all be better off.

correction
"now" dependant

no bs artist writes: Sowell is trapped
Just because Sowell picks up his grossly overpriced product that he is forced to pay for at gun point does not mean he is a hypocrit. If he did so without paying for it, then yes.

Explain to me why you believe giver-ment is more efficient than the private sector. Please use Katrina as an example and discuss Home Depot and Wal-Mart that had supplies shipped to the site before the storm hit and then how giver-ment trillions later still hasn't done a blessed thing two years later, while hundreds of millions was spend on porn, jewelry, hookers, etc. Your tax dollars at work. You want politicians running your health care? In England you can't get a hip replacement until you diet and reach the weight that the state says they want everybody at from now on. Your health care is not dependant on PC adherence. Is this the type of social engineering you want for health care. Edwards is presently campaigning for an identical system.

Explain why you believe paying the Feds as gate keeper is cheaper than you paying the doctor directly. It hasn't worked the past 40 years so I'm wondering what you see as new on the horizon.

Nobel economist Milton Friedman, “Put government in charge of the desert, and two years later you'll have a shortage of sand”.

This old horse just won't die
Greetings and salutations medically unenlightened sheeple. How many of you sheeple who hate government have medicare, medicaid or are collecting some sort of social security benefit? How many of your parents or even your grandparents are still alive thanks those evil entitlements called medicare, medicaid and social security???? Are you ready to just chuck those evil entitlements in the trash that quickly? Yeah, right, when pigs fly. Typical conservative hypocrisy. I bet Thomas Sowell regularly cashes his social security check and probably has medicare, but he just won't tell us because he's trapped in his l949 all is well time warp.

Oh well, this is a hot topic that just refuses to go away.

CYA -- Lawsuit Protection
butterbarre writes: "These days, there is the obligatory CAT scan, MRI, etc "

These are CYA tests. (Cover Your Assets)

It's that one in a million chance that the CAT or MRI will turn up something more serious than the routine diagnosis that will generally be adequate the other 999,999 times. If they don't perform these tests (plus X-rays etc.), and that one in a million happens, then there's a 100% guaranteed lawsuit in the works.

All of this works to make everything cost more. Doctors would rather do tests they know have an extremely low chance of turning up anything and billing the insurance company, than do any sort of prudent cost savings. It's safer to just spend the money.

And since the patient isn't paying anyway, who cares, right? The patient will agree to anything, so long as it doesn't come out of *his* pocket.

The Halcyon Days
lilly wrote: "In the 1950's my pediatrician used to make a house call for $7. We paid it out-of-pocket. I also recall that in the early 1960's we were paying that same amount, $7, for an office visit to a board-certified internist".

Ah, yes, the halcyon days of the 50's and 60's. I remember hopping on my $20.00 Schwinn bicycle and going to the Sinclair station so I could buy a gallon of gas for 25 cents so I could mow lawns for $2.50.

The median family income in 1955 was $4919. In 2005 it was $67839. Did the obstetrician who delivered you have to pay $100,000 malpractice premiums? I assure you that the majority of lab tests that you dismiss as routine were not even available in 1955. Say the internist paid a housecall then because of a bad headache. Take two aspirin and get plenty of rest was about all you got for your 7 bucks. These days, there is the obligatory CAT scan, MRI, etc and a panoply of migraine meds and pain meds - which will later be shown to rarely cause organ damage, necessitating another round of "routine tests" and lawsuits.

Considering the matrix of factors causing exponential increases in cost/price/value, the $218 office visit seems like a real bargain, especially if a third party picks up 80% of the tab.

The US maternal mortality rate in 1940 was about 50 per 10,000. Currently it is about 10 to 45 (depending on one's race) per 100,000. Such progress comes with added cost that goes beyond adjustments for inflation.

BS Artist Forgets the Source of Problems
bsa: "Forget the government for a minute. How many of you sheeple right now have to wrestle with getting through to your own PRIVATE health insurance companies for anything."

Forget the government? Does this mean I can have health care with NO government interference? NO subsidies? NO decisions made based on recent lawsuits? NO extra unnecessary expensive testing for purposes of "CYA"? NO red tape? NO price caps? NO government bureaucracy?

Your arguments, such as they are, remain irrelevant. "Forgetting the government" in health care is like ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the back seat of your Toyota Prius while driving uphill against the wind on a low charge. The government is the SOURCE of the problems.


bsa: "It's a shame ignorant shnooks ..."

Once again, failing to produce even so much as ONE rational argument, the ad homenim breaks out.

BS Artist Promises
quoth bs artist: "Ok, sheeple let me give this old war horse one last time"

Promise?


bsa: "This is not 1949. In more times you could pay for your own health care yourself. Heck, alot of doctors even made house calls. Yes, Uncle Alby, healthcare for African Americans during that time was incredibly shabby and practically nonexistent in some areas of this country."

As I've said -- you've run out of rational arguments. This issue of "racist lack of health care for blacks in the last century" is not relevant to the issue.

The issue is, in 1949, before the creation of Medicare, before the huge intrusions of government into health care, people *could* get affordable health care. Doctors *did* make house calls.

People went to doctors upon *necessity*, not upon whim, because they paid for it out of their own pocket. And doctors gave people a break when they couldn't pay.

Plus all of these expensive procedures had not been invented yet. And lawsuits were no where near as prevalent. So doctors could diagnose a minor treatment, and give patients a minor treatment, and not fear for losing their careers to a lawsuit because they didn't happen to give the patient an MRI.

Also many of these life-saving expensive techniques had not been invented yet. People have complained about some procedure they couldn't get for one reason or another -- in 1949, the life-saving procedures weren't invented yet, so you'd just die anyway.

Yes, racism existed. Black doctors existed as well, so where's your beef there? Certainly some areas got better health care than others. So what?

The Free Market does not promise that everyone will be treated equally. But everyone overall will get *better* quality health care. The average is higher. The government can only promise equal treatment for all if everyone is treated equally poorly.

Unca Alby
Good catch on the double posting issue. I'll be more careful myself but it sounds to me like the Web Master has a bug to fix

One last try .....
Ok, sheeple let me give this old war horse one last time before putting him out of his misery. This is not 1949. In more times you could pay for your own health care yourself. Heck, alot of doctors even made house calls.Yes, Uncle Alby, healthcare for African Americans during that time was incredibly shabby and practically nonexistent in some areas of this country. African Americans were even used as unwitting human guinea pigs for dangerous tests without their consent or knowlege (ever hear of Tuskegee) Now if that bothers you, it's not my problem.

Forget Watergate --Richard Nixon should have been impeached for helping create ghastly HMO system. Talk about government interference!

Forget the government for a minute. How many of you sheeple right now have to wrestle with getting through to your own PRIVATE health insurance companies for anything. Isn't it frustrating having to press ONE for YES and TWO for NO all the time until maybe you reach some ignorant bureaucrat with a pulse. How many of you sheeple have to fill out endless paperwork with your own HMOs or insurance companies in the hope your procedure will be approved? Remember to dot those i's and cross those t's now.

It's a shame ignorant shnooks like Thomas Sowell are given free reign to influence this great, God fearing nation to cow the sheeple into total submission. Oh well, I tried,but you sheeple won't listen. Yelling at me isn't going to help. Remember, you'll be sorry someday and by then we'll be referring to all of you in the past tense.



Sorry
Sorry about the double post. Impatients with my Web Browser response I quess. If I say it twice is it twice as true?

ALL: A Note on Double-Posting
I've noticed that the most recent change to the Townhall website leaves your message in-tact in the Comments box, even after a successful posting.

Previously, after a successful post, the Comments box would be cleared.

I think this is why there has been this rash of double-postings. People see their words are still there, and mistakenly believe it didn't go through. So they hit "Post" again.

So, this is just a note for people to be a little more careful. Check to see if indeed your comments were posting before posting again.

BS artist
bs artist writes: "No Uncle Alby, I haven't run out of ammo."

Then why are you making this entirely asinine comparison to racism of 1930's?

Every era, every community, every group, has got good attributes and bad attributes. Just because we admire the good doesn't mean we want to emulate both the good and the bad. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. Does that mean we should ignore his admonitions against slavery and his failed attempts to outlaw it?

If you have rational arguments, then use them. Resorting to ad homenim ("close-minded conservatives" ... "conservative sheeple") demonstrates that you have no rational arguments. All you have left is passion. Passion without a rational foundation is dangerous.

Sorry
Sorry about the double post. Impatients with my Web Browser response I quess. If I say it twice is it twice as true?

Another Contributor to high Med costs
One other contributor to increased medical costs directly attributable to the government funded approach is the increase in unnecessary consumption that should be expected when the consumer thinks it is somehow 'free' or will be paid for by somebody else’s money. How many people trek in to the Doctors office because they have a 'cold' and are looking for a magic antibiotic pill which (a.) is not effective against whatever virus has beset them and (b.) will be taken for no good purpose until the cold naturally wanes and then stopped leaving whatever uninvolved bacteria survives more resistant to that antibiotic than those which succumbed to it and thereby requiring more R&D dollars to fund newer antibiotics?

Now, I know that while under viral attack the bodies defenses against bacteria may be compromised and the doctors use this as justification for keeping their patients happy with possibly unnecessary treatment. And I know that the above scenario is not characteristic of most doctors visits. But I also know that it and similar others occur because a consumer unburdened by payment concerns is not a wise and prudent consumer.

Another Contributor to high Med costs
One other contributor to increased medical costs directly attributable to the government funded approach is the increase in unnecessary consumption that should be expected when the consumer thinks it is somehow 'free' or will be paid for by somebody else’s money. How many people trek in to the Doctors office because they have a 'cold' and are looking for a magic antibiotic pill which (a.) is not effective against whatever virus has beset them and (b.) will be taken for no good purpose until the cold naturally wanes and then stopped leaving whatever uninvolved bacteria survives more resistant to that antibiotic than those which succumbed to it and thereby requiring more R&D dollars to fund newer antibiotics?

Now, I know that while under viral attack the bodies defenses against bacteria may be compromised and the doctors use this as justification for keeping their patients happy with possibly unnecessary treatment. And I know that the above scenario is not characteristic of most doctors visits. But I also know that it and similar others occur because a consumer unburdened by payment concerns is not a wise and prudent consumer.

Insurance vs Collectivism
I refer all you Liberals back to my previous post on how the financial viability of insurance depends on the likelihood of the insured event occurring. Some posters site less likely catastrophic events requiring hospitalization and/or long tern care as justification for insuring against likely routine events, but the financial viability of insurance breaks down when all participants can be expected to collect on it. It changes from self funding insurance to government funded collectivism.

The problem with that is the required supporting bureaucracies, HMO’s, insurance companies, et. al. greatly increase the costs of those routine events so that the total cost of all healthcare goes up. You can make the argument that such increased cost is acceptable as it protects those unfortunate enough to be beset by catastrophe but that is like saying that the government should pay for household items because it would protect the victims of household theft. True enough but neither practical nor necessary. Insurance limited to less likely catastrophic eventualities worked in the past, as Dr. Sowell points out, and we can have a rational discussion about how that protection might be extended to those who truly can not afford it without immediately resorting to complete and unavoidably more expensive government funded universal healthcare.

To do the latter and to then blame greedy capitalists for all of the increased cost is self-servingly short-sighted. A large part of that increased cost is due to all of the additional middlemen who thereby have their hands in the till. Another is the skyrocketing cost of malpractice insurance which is subject to the same financial reasoning as explained in my original post. Finally, the remarkable modern improvements in medical diagnostic and treatment options from which we all seek to benefit with healthier and longer lives have to somehow be paid for no matter the distribution process.

The Halcyon Days
lilly wrote: "In the 1950's my pediatrician used to make a house call for $7. We paid it out-of-pocket. I also recall that in the early 1960's we were paying that same amount, $7, for an office visit to a board-certified internist".

Ah, yes, the halcyon days of the 50's and 60's. I remember hopping on my $20.00 Schwinn bicycle and going to the Sinclair station so I could buy a gallon of gas for 25 cents so I could mow lawns for $2.50.

The median family income in 1955 was $4919. In 2005 it was $67839. Did the obstetrician who delivered you have to pay $100,000 malpractice premiums? I assure you that the majority of lab tests that you dismiss as routine were not even available in 1955. Say the internist paid a housecall then because of a bad headache. Take two aspirin and get plenty of rest was about all you got for your 7 bucks. These days, there is the obligatory CAT scan, MRI, etc and a panoply of migraine meds and pain meds - which will later be shown to rarely cause organ damage, necessitating another round of "routine tests" and lawsuits.

Considering the matrix of factors causing exponential increases in cost/price/value, the $218 office visit seems like a real bargain, especially if a third party picks up 80% of the tab.

The US maternal mortality rate in 1940 was about 50 per 10,000. Currently it is about 10 to 45 (depending on one's race) per 100,000. Such progress comes with added cost that goes beyond adjustments for inflation.

Uncle Alby
No Uncle Alby, I haven't run out of ammo. I just find it frustrating dealing with you closed minded conservative sheeple who fight even the simplest healthcare suggestion like, oh, getting a check up tooth and nail. It's sheeple like you and Thomas Sowell who refuse to believe the whopping costs of healthcare and go through life with blinders. And yes, African Americans like` Sowell received shabby medical treatment simply based on race alone way back in 1949. Heck I'm surprised Sowell even survived to a ripe old age given all the horrible things he suffered when he was young. I'm willing` to gamble that he has those evil entitlements like Medicare and Social Security.

Then again, what do I know. Go ahead, get sick and die. It's what you conservative sheeple deserve anyhow.

Priorities
My wife and I attended a block party on Labor Day. A conversation ring went around by which we talked about ourselves and our children. One couple described the adventures of their globe hopping daughter. She had recently been scuba diving at a resort island off the coast of Australia. While walking down a path a feral dog came out of the bushes and bit her foot. She went to the emergency room and got the requisite evaluation, stitches, tetanus shot and prescription for penicillin. And the bill came to...$10.00. Everyone clucked in unison how wonderful that was. As an OB/GYN, I couldn't help but floating one in the punchbowl by asking, "Is the rate at the resort $10 per night? How much do they charge for scuba tank refills?" I wondered if she had needed re-attachment of an amputated great toe if the service would have been available at all.

People simply want their income for discretionary spending on cars, houses, vacations, cell phones, etc (it is a rare Medicaid obstetric visit that goes by without a couple of incoming phone calls interrupting the patient's query of "When are you gunna gimme an ultrasound so I can find out the sex of the baby? When are you gunna get one of those 4D ultrasounds so you can gimme pictures like my cousin got?"

Sowell nailed the problem right on the head.

BS Artist
bs artist writes:
"I would like to ask if Thomas Sowell is also nostalgic for the awful lives African Amerians had way back in 1949. Does he miss lynchings and segregation too?"

You've totally run out of rational arguments I see.

Come back when you've thought up something rational.

free medical care
As a conservative and primary care physician, let me weigh in with a couple of observations. Dealing with government discounts, late payments, red tape and misguided directives costs me a lot of time and money. In fact, many of the people on subsidized care misuse it by coming in for minor complaints that they dont need me for. Many of them do indeed fail to take care of themselves.

I allow payments on an installment basis as little as $5 (five) dollars per month. You would be amazed at how many people think this is outrageous.

As with all limited resources price is the best way to ration these services. Every person must stand on his own two feet and accept the consequences of his actions. For the truly needy, the handicapped, and the chronically ill we can and should make ample provision.

Insurance for catastrophic care is the best option. For the colds, the routine annual exams, and minor concerns, Pay cash.

What Hillary and John etc. dont see or wont acknowledge is that by separating consequences from actions at the public expense we only encourage irresponsibility. Free maternity care to indigents is one reason why the illegitamacy rate has skyrocketed. Law doc

What about food?
We need food more urgently than we need medical care. We're all just a few missed meals away from incapacitation. We need the tumorous States' homewoners' association (i.e., the Fed'ral gov't) to get involved.

Let's start by letting employers provide all-you-can-eat (with certain restrictions) food passes as a tax-free benefit to employees and their dependents.

Then, let's create a myriad of laws regulating the companies that pop up to administer the benefit: privacy laws, must-cover-those-with-unusual-diets laws, etc.--things that de-incentivize the consumer from paying attention to the cost.

Use your imagingation from here. Imagine what happens to grocery stores, restaurants, etc., 10, 20, 30, 40 years down the road.

Intreresting radio show yesterday
The speaker has family in England and visits regularly. She reads the two major newspapers daily. She pointed out that England has now slipped to 40th in the world with hospital beds per capita putting it in third world status. Additionally she said that 1 person is in the paper everyday who has died because they could not live to the scheduled appointment.

Yesterday's death was a women suffering convulsions and they were getting worse and the doctor said sorry you must wait the five days when we can schedule you. She died in a convolution. Her doctor’s comment was that it is too bad, but he had no choice but to schedule her in line.

Also, they just cut back sharply on ambulances.

Finally she stated that they passed a law this week wherein if you want a hip replacement and don't loose weight or meet other benchmarks that you remain at the end of the list until all no patients for such exist (in short, no care ever as somebody always gets put in front of you).

This is giver-ment care's inevitable result. Healthcare run for political correctness. And this is not crazy talk, John Edwards is campaigning on the same concepts wherein you will be forced to go to the doctor once a year and do whatever the giver-ment tells you regarding your health. Sorry fat folks, smokers and others, your goose is cooked.

Conservative Death Wish
Man all you staunch conservatives either know the secret of eternal life or you love playing Russian roulette with your health. Remember we're all just an accident, doctor's visit or lab test away from a disaster. What happens when you've exhausted whatever savings you've got in footing the titanic sized bills yourself? Maybe just like the dinosaurs conservatives will eventually become extinct. So long suckers. One thing that won't be missed are conservative reactionaries who just` love making life hell for everyone.

I would like to ask if Thomas Sowell is also nostalgic for the awful lives African Amerians had way back in 1949. Does he miss lynchings and segregation too? Also many times white doctors refused to treat African Americans outright. There was no patient's bill of rights and African Americans were either ignored or received woefully inadequate medical attention.


Sheeple, healthcare these days is all about the Benjamins, period.

No BS artist...
Got a question for you. If you want Universal Health Care, what do you say to someone who doesn't want it and doesn't want to pay for a service he doesn't want or need? Don't give me the BS about not wanting to pay for roads, cops, firemen, and defense, which are all necessities for a civil society. Health care is a commodity, that requires training to develop needed skills and medical knowledge, experimentation, facilities to practice, and pharmaceuticals and techniques to develop. It is an industry that requires capital to function. It is not a right.

The Constitution specifies that the federal government can only spend tax dollars on certain things, as outlined in Article 1, Section 8. If Congress deviates from that article, any such expenditures is a violation of civil rights. This puts socialized medicine, including Medicare, as a civil rights violation. You may want it, but it's still a violation of your civil rights. This is because the government is taking your money away to spend on someone else's health care. It's not right. It's theft, and it is utterly immoral.

So I ask again, what are you going to do or say to someone who doesn't want the service and doesn't want to pay into it? You gonna put him in jail? You do that, and you'll be deprived a taxpayer. And for what? Because he wouldn't toe your utopian line? Isn't that fascist?

Rich D. September, 05, 2007 6:43 PM
Rich D.'s comments are quite correct about the mess with insurance.

Unfortunately, it's going to be unlikely to fix this situation. Like many other things wrong with the world, it has morphed into people's expectations for the way things SHOULD be.

"Free" Bennies from employers has become another "entitlement." People can not imagine a world without them. Even when you explain that they'd get the money *instead* of the bennies, and they could spend it on bennies if they wanted, or spend it on something else, thus effectively making them *richer* (part of being wealthy is having more *options*), they still won't go along with the idea.

They want their bennies, even if it means being worse off in the long run. This is part of the problem.

$20 Aspirin?? OK - Here' why...
Why does a hospital charge $20 for an aspirin?

The process is called cost accounting. Look at the process of getting an aspirin to a patient.

The doctor ($A per hour salary) spends N amount of time ordering an aspiring.

The nurse ($B per hour salary spends) O amount of tine entering the order.

Pharmacy clerk prints the order - $C per for P time

Pharmacist dispenses the med: $D per hour for Q time

Runner moves the med: $E per hour for R time

Nurse gives to Patient: $B per hour for S Time
Nurse records action: $B per hour for T Time.

Emergency Room costs: $F per hour for U time.

SO, what does it cost to get the patient the med: (cost of med) + ($A*N) + ($B*O) + ($C*P) + ($D*Q) + ($E*R) + ($B*S) + ($B*T) + ($F*U) *1.10% (see previous posting) = $20.

Actually, I bet the above equation yields a number greater than $20 for most hospitals, but $20 was their conscience limit.

Smart hospitals do not charge $20 for an aspirin. The hospital I worked for worked on a basis like: ER Room charge = ER room cost + average cost of meds dispensed * 1.10%. We would post a $0 for the cost of the aspirin (you have to track EVERYTHING given to the patient for legal purposes) on the bill: people always feel good about paying $0 for something.

Bottom line: You pay the $20 cost of getting you the aspirin, whether or not you see it on the bill.

Doug writes:
Tuesday, September, 04, 2007 4:28 AM
Health care vs. medical care
Dr. Sowell is correct as usual. Health care consists of more than medical care.
...I don't want to pay taxes so some 350-pound beer-swilling, chain-smoking couch potato can have bypass surgery, then go home and trash the surgeon's work by resuming the same self-destructive lifestyle that destroyed his heart in the first place.

================================

Regular exercise and healthy eating and other lifestyle habits are keeping those at our home well, too. And we are very unhappy to have to be responsible for those who don't take care of their health. These abusers are responsible for the large increase in health care premiums for ALL of us and yet they continue to expect and demand immediate care - while continuing to not take care of themselves!

Correct again!
As usual, Dr Sowell is correct.

I have worked in 1) Insurance, 2) Hospital; Finance; 3) Hospital Finance Consulting for the past 30 years.

Medicare and Medicaid do not cover the COST of the tratments provided. Let's say that as a hospital I charge $10.00 for a service. That's my PRICE. If I calculate the COST, it is $7.00. (Cost of materials+cost of labor+cost of facility). Medicare usually pays $6.00; Medicaid usually pays $4.00. I lose $1 or $3 for every patient that walks in the door. If those patient comprise 40% of my patient population...

If I LOSE money on 40% of the patients, where do I get the money to get me to break even? CLUE: I raise the cost on anyone that is NOT Medicare or Medicaid. Do the math.

If I am to survive, I cannot 1) lose money or 2) break even. I must MAKE money. Even as a "not for profit" (and I worked for a STATE medical center for 10 years), you must make break even + 10% JUST to be able to afford new technologoy, expand services, add needed personnell, etc.

If you do not believe these numbers, please check the number of hospitals that have closed their doors over the past 10-15 years. I'll guarentee their Medicare/Medicaid ratio was hogher than 40%.

Sigh
Companies began offering benefits during Roosevelt's War (just got more attention) because he forced companies to freeze wages in a stupid attemp to fix the depression that he helped make worse. The wimpy companies (instead of just resisting) pleaded that they needed to reward workers, so he "allowed" them to give benefits instead, starting another one of his sorry messes.

Why, friends, why, is health insurance different from life, car, homeowners, disability, property, liability, G&I, etc. - all sold on the open market by competing companies licensed to do business in your state? Why?

Companies should cease offering "benefits" and just pay the wages and let the workers decide how to spend it. Watch the competition increase and the prices fall.

Health Care Costs
I know a woman who, when she was in her early twenties, was involved in a very serious accident. She survived, but was left with a brain injury. By the time her care was complete (it involved multiple operations, a lengthy hospital stay, physical therapy, occupational therapy, etc.), $4-5 million dollars in costs had been incurred. (I'm told this is par for the course for people who have brain injuries.) Not surprisingly, she was extremely thankful for her health insurance. It is one thing to have to pay out-of-pocket for routine medical expenses, but doing away with insurance to the point that not even catastrophic incidents would be covered is very unwise. It would be difficult to impossible for all but the wealthiest among us to cover such costs without insurance -- even on the "installment plan."

Dr Sowell's Truth Serum

Why can't we inject everyone with truth serum?

Dr Sowell is right on the money.

Where are Jeffersonian principles for improving medicine in this country instead of lookin to proven failures in other countries>

A nation of WE not a nation of ME
You don't want single payer healthcare no problem just pay way more because nobody has mentioned the record profits that insurance companies are making by eliminating the sick people from their roles. I have worked at Blue Cross and the lowest administrative cost plan was Medicare by a factor of 10. So why not make everyone eligible for Medicare and let the private companies try to compete on price or service. Good luck competing against a pool of 300 million people on price. Try to get an individual policy if you have any pre-existing conditions like diabetes, heart disease or cancer. No company will write you a policy at any price.

Grumpy Old man
Thomas sowell is an out of touch old geezer who starts every story with "when I was your age...."

Eulogy for Mr Staunch Conservative
The only good thing about all the uproar I've caused that maybe there might be fewer conservatives around to whine and complain about evil liberalism. Here is the eulogy you should get as a reward for being such staunch conservative;

Today we mourn the loss of a truly great American, Mr. Staunch Conservative. Although Mr. Staunch Conservative desperately needed a brain transplant he refused to accept any medical entitlements from the evil federal government which could have made his transplant possible. Mr. Staunch Conservative
was a steadfast foot soldier against that evil witch Hillary Clinton and her army of flying monkeys. Imagine, the nerve of Hillary and the federal government making medical care mandatory. What next--free public schools for the kids?! We don't need no stinkin' healthcare for everyone. Mr. Staunch Conservative devoted his life to that most worthy cause that healthcare just isn't for everyone. Rest in peace Mr. Staunch Conservative. Your will not not be in vain.

Oh I believe that Mr. Sowell is getting on in years. How much money does anyone want to bet he has those government entitlements like Social Security and Medicare. The only bright spot is perhaps fewer shrill conservatives. This liberal isn't going anywhere and if I can do it on someone else's dime, the better. Deal with it sheeple.

a few more observations
to no BS artist,
Sowell and Smith are not setting prices, the insatiable demand for a "free service" is most certainly setting prices.Furthermore under the Big Brother system the Feds decide worthiness,the Feds man worse than dumb and clueless.
Lilly,
Cheney has a "private" government insurance as does Congress. You Madam are not entitled to their insurance.
Furthermore, do you know anyone denied care due to lack of funds?
Georgia gal,
it violates patient and doctor rights.
Hustler
correct, equal at bottom, the Feds will not belong to our plansam russo

oldsocialworker
I never met a social worker who was not a flaming liberal. How do you manage to reconcile conservatism with socialism?

By the way, you cannot claim any success with that former addict, even if they have been sober for the intervening years. There is more to turning your life around than that. Clearly, this particular individual was still possessed of 'stinking thinking.'

The Purpose
The purpose of NHC is not intended to be a means to better healthcare. It is a means of making all of us, save the elites, equal at the bottom. It will remove one more vistage of a class society.

We will not revolt because we could not give up our air conditioning long enough to fight, much less risk anything for our freedom.

TWO GUN

.....Most people do not buy insurance because they want to cash it in like a lottery ticket ...normal people who buy insurance hope they never have a car accident or get a serious illness ...the policy is a safety net in case of an unwanted contingency ...

.....If you want to play what ifs ...what if we are invaded by aliens from another galaxy and they eat us all for lunch? .....COLOSSUS

lilly writes: 05, 2007 6:51 AM

That Was Then, This is Now
In the 1950's my pediatrician used to make a house call for $7. ……Few people today could possibly stand to pay their medical bills out-of-pocket. This is a ridiculous idea.

DESKJOCKEY RESPONDS

This is usually the consequence of years of left wing solutions to interfere with the market place. Then they claim the solution to the damage they did must be yet more of what they did.

Of course the answer is simple, stop Medicare, Medicaid, senior drugs, FDA, doctor prescriptions, taxpayer subsidized corporate plans, free hospitals, states demanding coverage for things nobody wants from the insurer, yada, yada. Quickly you will see doctors leaving the profession, hospitals closing, doctor skul enrollments drop and folks able to go the doctor for $20.

The giver-ment has created 95% of demand that doesn’t belong in the market place. Therefore price must rise through the roof to try and satisfy demand as no amount of supply will ever satisfy the ever increasing demands giver-ment makes such as our recent senior drugs that will add a billion a year to the formula in no time. Now giver-ment says because we made it so expensive you need us to steal yet more of your neighbor’s money to pay the cost.

Why not get rid of the bogus demand and prices will fall sharply back to market rates.

No BS Artist - Self-Worth
It's sad that your feeling of self-worth depends on what you can afford.

But to use this to justify theft is indefensible.

Michael Moore
Moore needs a break on his health insurance can't imagine his is cheap...

Analogies
I know its a worn out one but a good one - why not nationalize car insurance? Those mean insurance companies waste so much money on advertising and executive bonuses. Not to mention if I get caught drunk driving they'll cut me off! Speeding is too expensive also.

Now if the government could provide it for "free" I wouldn't have to worry about getting sued and my auto would get fixed if I wreck it and I don't have to worry about how bad I drive - gee a risk free life! Nirvana on Earth!

For prudent people being responsible (financially on the hook) for their own car encourages them to drive sober and safely. Taking risk out of healthcare (or any other aspect of life) takes out the incentive to worry about risk in day to day decision making thus costs society dearly.

No BS Artist - Who's dumb and clueless?
How did Thomas Sowell and Adam Smith set health care prices? Who has increased the demand for health care? Who has made it more expensive to be a doctor with outrageous malpractice insurance premiums? Who pushed for HMOs which force doctors to see upwards of 10 patients per hour? Who has made it so expensive to develop new drugs because of potential lawsuits and FDA approval procedures?

There are huge economic consequences to the mass manipulation of the health care industry. Now you are surprised because the laws of supply and demand work?

Do you seriously believe that more interference from the government is going to erase the unintended side effects of decades of bad policy?

Doesn't this remind you of the terrible agricultural problems in the Soviet Union in the 1970's? Central planning from the government resulted in crops rotting in the fields for the lack of transportation while the farmers themselves were starving. This is only one example of disasters caused by leftist elite's naive belief in their superior intellect and policies.

The left's central planning in meddling with the health care industry has worked wonders, hasn't it?

So now you want the sheeple to rise up and DEMAND the health care that is their RIGHT.

At what point do you believe in the suspension of property rights? In cases of life or death, or lower? And if so, how much lower?

Used to believe in NHC till I saw it
I don't suppose anyone will ready this now, but for the record, I'm pretty much a liberal and used to be a firm believer in the concept of socialized medicine. Then my UK friend's mother got cancer. My own mom died of cancer in 2001. She was first diagnosed in the early 90's and was treated promptly and aggressively.

My friend's mom waited forever. She checked into the hospital for tests that would have been done outpatient here, and sat for FIVE DAYS waiting her turn, which never came. So she went home and came back later. Then there was another wait for treatment. When she was declared terminal, the family moved her to a hospice and the staff had her taken off nutrition and hydration, even though my friend, her only competent relative (her husband has Alzheimer's), was not comfortable with that decision. She said she would have had to go to court to start the feeding back up. Talk about backwards!

It's likely that even here, she wouldn't have made it - it was a pretty nasty form of cancer and already metastasized when diagnosed, but after watching the agony of my friend and her family and the utter incompetence of the system there, I will never be able to support fully socialized medicine again. When government pays, government calls the tune - I'm not prepared to give up my autonomy in something as vital as end-of-life decision making.

I do think that as we provide a basic education for all children, we should do something to ensure that all children under 18 have access to preventative medicine, immunizations, basic dental and eye care so that they have a chance to make the most of the opportunities they have as Americans, but that can be done in other ways than by nationalizing the health care industry.

That Was Then, This is Now
In the 1950's my pediatrician used to make a house call for $7. We paid it out-of-pocket. I also recall that in the early 1960's we were paying that same amount, $7, for an office visit to a board-certified internist.

Fast-forward to 2007. I am now sitting at a desk with statements from my insurance company that they have recently paid $746 for lab work---nothing exotic, just routine tests. Luckily, I did not have to pay it out-of-pocket because I have that evil Communist thing called: medical insurance. BTW the blood for the lab work was drawn during a routine office visit that no longer costs $7---that part was $218.

Sowell is a smart man. He probably knows that a day on Intensive Care nowadays runs around $2000, and EVERYTHING, every pill and shot and machine and plastic tube, is billed extra. One thing that is billed extra is surgery (and extra-extra for anything they implant inside you) and, for example, the cost of a defibrillator-pacemaker, like Vice-President Cheney has, runs around $75,000. As a federal employee, Cheney has medical insurance and probably did not pay his costs out-of-pocket even though, with a reported $8 million a year still going to him from Halliburton, he could well afford to.

Few people today could possibly stand to pay their medical bills out-of-pocket. This is a ridiculous idea.

Still waiting on the Hillary people..
...to answer a simple question about UHC. If I don't want it, can I simply opt out of it and not pay taxes into it? So far, all I've heard is crickets.

Though I do get a few people around my area that assert the "need" for Universal Health Care. At which point I say to them, "What are you going to do if many of us simply don't want it, and refuse to pay into it?"

On it's face, Universal Health Care is an outright violation of civil rights. The Constitution doesn't provide any provision for Congress to allocate money in this fashion, including, among other things, Medicare, Social Security, public education and welfare spending. Why is the health care, the education, the retirement, and the economic well-being of other people my fiscal responsibility as a citizen?

cHRONIC AILMENTS
And of course you are 100% sure that the single payer will pay...eg no dialysis after 55 no by-pass for smokers or the obese, gov. selection and rules for ALL transplants, and Mr. cRONIC AILMENTS, when the single payer (the govenment) refuses to pay for your chemo. or surgery, where will go to have it done?? The US?
When medicare refuses to authorize a surgery or treatment what then? Please do no try to tell me they don"t refuse...John Edwards has already stated to be "in the system" annual check-ups..if not
By the way the fore-mentioned are part of the wonderful British system.
Sam Russo MD

Chronic Ailments
I've seen this figure on both the conservative and the liberal side of the Health Care Debate: 10% of Americans make up 90% of the Costs. These are people with chronic ailments (think Tony Snow with cancer, or Christopher Reeve after the accident; also people with god-given diseases like asthma, Parkinson's disease, diabetes). America has decided that, for most (not all) of their fellow Americans, such people will have the treatment they need even if they lack the funds to pay for it. Health Insurance Companies make money by keeping that 10% of people off of their plan. As time goes by, the health insurance companies get better and better at excluding the likely sick. What are those people to do?

When Thomas Sowell was young, people with cancer or insulin-dependent diabetes or Parkinsons' disease just died. Now they can live monthes or even years after diagnosis .... but it costs tens of thousands of dollars per year to do so. With private health insurance companies dropping individuals with chronic ailments, and with the costs being so incredibly high, what are these people to do? And that, my friends, is where the desire for Universal Access to Health Care is coming from (otherwise known as Universal Health Care, or Single-Payer Health Care).

Problem w/ 3rd Party payers
The problem with 3rd party payers is the third party payer selects how much of a procedure they are going to pay. The medical provider then has to make up the difference in what they receive from insurance or Medicaid/Medicare by charging out of pocket payers even more money. Say a knee replacement is $5000 (I pulled a number out of the air). Medicare/Medicaid or insurance will pay maybe $3500. The medical provider is out $1500. In order to make up the $1500 the provider raises the price of knee replacements from $5000 to $6000 or more. 3rd party payer systems are terribly inefficient, terribly expensive, and are dangerous to the consumer's life and limb because of the quality of service.

Unfortunately.....
I am so favorably impressed with almost all of the previous comments, not only with their opinions on this matter but with the apparent in depth understanding involved in this issue.... unfortunately it seems that they are very,very outnumbered by their fellow citizens.
The mind-set that exists today has been very carefully cultivated for 30 years or more by the left. The so called average citizen believes very strongly that virtually every aspect of his medical care is owed to him or her simply as a birth right. They do not or will not understand that many individual people from the taxpayer to the physician at the bed-side will trully be stripped of certain freedoms to which they are entitled by the Constitution. That their own rights under a government system will likewise be jerked from them ie right to pick a doctor, to pick a hospital, the right to redress if the system harms them, the right NOT to participate in the system, and on and on.
I have been in practice for 35 years.
I cannot accept payment form a medicare patient, if I refuse medicare's 50% reimbursment,I cannot buy my own insurance after 65, that's right I MUST BT LAW take medicare as my primary insurance, need approval to order or recieve certain tests that medicare deems appropriate,a doctor not in the medicare system cannot take me as a patient OR accept money from me.
Almost none or my patients believes any of these things when I explain it to them....I am quitting the practice of medicine...probably 7-8 years before I would have and I have vehementely discouraged my children from going into medicine.
Unfortunately the American public cannot see past the 'IT'S FREE' part and will not recognize their mistake until they suffer under such a system and can't get out.
Who knows maybe this will be the very first government run system that works...UNFORTUN....
SAM RUSSO MD

Sowell- Health Care
What an eloquent description of the state of affairs within US health care. If only people would read again... there would be no Hillary for President.

Sorry about the double post ..
..

Dear no BS artist,
I am sorry that you have had to spend so many years of your life exposed to the dark side of our semi-capitalist healthcare industry.

Capitalism - even semiCapitalism - is not for the faint of heart. There are tough choices involved. It is not a panacea by any means, and often leads to inequity.

But, consider that the utopian alternatives of the Left have been miseable failures.

We live in a world of scarce resources. Health care is (and always will be) a scarce resource. This creates the unpleasant fact that we have to allocate our utilization of such resources. Price plays a role in this process.

The alternative to the gritty reality of Capitalism (as you describe) is the even-grittier reality that results from Govt control.

If you are offended by the unpleasant image of 'bean counters' getting their grubby paws on the health care industry, you should be doubly offended by the picture of Govt bureaucrats doing the same - with resources that are made even more scarce by their meddling!

Dear no BS artist,
I am sorry that you have had to spend so many years of your life exposed to the dark side of our semi-capitalist healthcare industry.

Capitalism - even semiCapitalism - is not for the faint of heart. There are tough choices involved. It is not a panacea by any means, and often leads to inequity.

But, consider that the utopian alternatives of the Left have been miseable failures.

We live in a world of scarce resources. Health care is (and always will be) a scarce resource. This creates the unpleasant fact that we have to allocate our utilization of such resources. Price plays a role in this process.

The alternative to the gritty reality of Capitalism (as you describe) is the even-grittier reality that results from Govt control.

If you are offended by the unpleasant image of 'bean counters' getting their grubby paws on the health care industry, you should be doubly offended by the picture of Govt bureaucrats doing the same - with resources that are made even more scarce by their meddling!

no bs artist
Most of what you've described is directly attributable to the oligarchy lawyers now enjoy and the Age of Entitlement that ushered it all in. That is why the DSM IV (once reviled by my profession) rules all in mental health now. Since everyone is entilted to anything they want, perfect medical services, complete comfort, desirable results, etc... depite personal effort- care providers are in defense mode at all times.

Without clearly defined yet dehumanized practices and procedures (bureaucracy)- you will be torn apart in court. Liberalism has brought this about, I'm sorry to say.

Ditto
Health care and medical care are not a right... period. I'll pay for my needs, I don't want to pay for anyone elses, or give socialists anymore power than they've already stolen or deceitfully conned out of the sheeple. Go Dr. Sowell!

No BS Artist, part II
Medical care is not a right. Medical care requires that someone else must provide that care. Someone else must provide the materials for that care.

Are you going to force them to give you care at the price you want to pay?

No. Instead, you want to force everyone to pay to make those doctors, nurses, facilities and medication available.


It all sounds so nice in the abstract to repeat platitudes like "Free Health Care for All". It is much different when you bring it down to the personal level.

Who owes you a heart transplant? Do I?

Before you jump to any conclusions, this is not just a dry intellectual argument for me. I will most likely require moderately expensive medical care for the rest of my life.

I bursting with agreement!!!!!!!!!!!!
"That is still true for most young people today, which is why many people in their twenties do not choose to pay for medical insurance, even when they can afford it."

I cannot tell you how many younger people I have occassion to know/work with see their health care as the responsibility of the government and their entertainment/leisure as their priority!

I remember in 1992 I met a young man whom I had worked with from 1985-88 (drugs, alcohol, "mental health" issues, etc...) at a gas station. He was thrilled to see me, and even more pleased to tell me that he had fathered three children with two different mates- they were all living with his mother. Having just had my first and only child, I asked him if he was concerned about the cost of raising children. He puckishly placed his hands gently on my cheeks so that my attention would be trained only upon his face, and said, "Haven't you ever heard of social services, medicare, and medicaid??"

Over the years, I have seen an exponenetial escalation in fun lovers who spare no expense on fun, yet cannot afford food, health care, and often housing. Thomas Sowell totally gets it.


Government Health Care
It's high time to remember,(and you can take this to
the bank), From the president that taught us well
that the Government is not the answer to our problem
the Government IS our problem.

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'".

Ronald Reagan

Wake up America

Get a clue No BS Artist
no bs artist writes: Tuesday, September, 04, 2007 8:50 PM
Join me on a reality break sheeple......

"Sorry sheeple, runaway lassiez faire capitalism doesn't work with health care."

How can you say that with a straight face? Do you even know that "lassiez faire" means? Eliminate the FDA, Medicare and Medicaid and we can start, mind you, start talking about lassiez faire capitalism in the health field.


But this point is far more important.

I HAVE NO RIGHT TO ANYTHING YOU HAVE, EVEN IF IT MEANS MY LIFE.

That's right. The doctors and nurses in that hospital are not yours to order around. You do not own the drugs in the pharmacy.


personal responsibility

Yes, government healthcare has unintended consequences. Look how medicare part D plan have increased the cost of medicare recipient's medications. It is my empression from talking to my patients that medication prices have gone up 25% since medicare began paying for prescriptions.

I would like the government to perform an ad campaign regarding the importance of good health behaviors. Education is cheaper and more productive than paying for healthcare. Many , many people have little regard for disease if they are feeling good. Perhaps they don't trust doctors and the healthcare system enough to pay money for a painless illness like diabetes and high blood pressure. These diseases are painless until you get your first complication, but then it is too late to cure.

No health insurance requires personal responsiblity. Some people want the government to solve their problems like obesity.
crherrerahot@hotmail.com

Ever doubt it's really about control?
Here are some choice quotes from the gender-neutral political action figure, John Edwards discussing his "universal" health care proposal:

"It requires that everybody be covered. It requires that everybody get preventive care."

"If you are going to be in the system, you can't choose not to go to the doctor for 20 years. You have to go in and be checked and make sure that you are OK."

"The whole idea is a continuum of care, basically from birth to death."

How long before the elitists decide which behaviors are destructive to the collective?

Edwards' plan includes mental health "care." I can't wait to see what government mandated mental health care "checkups" are like. Anyone ever see One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?

How can a thinking person not be terrified of leftists in power?

(shudder)

Join me on a reality break sheeple......
about healthcare,ok? I have been working in a hospital billing office for 26 years and I've seen some horrible changes in that time. In the late 70's and the early 80's the DRG system (DRG means Diagnostic Related Group) came to be. See a bunch of bean counters got together in a board room and gave every single condition, illness and disease from athlete's foot to a stroke a numerical code and an allotted amount that you, the customer-er-patient- needs to recover, provided you have no other pre existing medical conditions or unforseen complications. For example, if you are a 35 year old male with no other problems and are admitted for pneumonia you should be out of the hospital in 5 days tops. Maternity is the most dicey of all conditions. When I first started the average normal delivery stay was 3 days, 7 days for a C section. Now both mother and child are kicked out in a day for a normal delivery 2 days at most for a C section. In fact my hospital closed down its maternity ward--it was just way too expensive to maintain. Isn't that sad? Even hospitals have to toe the bottom line and economize to trim the fat as much as possible.

Did I forget to mention other little unpleasant facts of modern medical costs like deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance. Most doctors aren't even going to ask you to stick out your tongue and say "Ahhhhh" unless you can stick out your health care insurance card first. Gee, in all his misty eyed nostalgia, Sowell doesn't understand squat about the facts of modern health care. Sorry sheeple, runaway lassiez faire capitalism doesn't work with health care. Can any of you just whip out $100,000 in cash for a hospital stay? I didn't think so!

Hey brainsnotrhetoric
(Boy, here's some irony for you)

I'll bet you can't guess what RHETORICAL device this is:

"Yeah back in 1949 when you were forced to use separate water fountains, bathrooms, hotels, entrances, hospitals and still almost 20 years till you had the Right to vote in all 50 States..."

I'll give you a hint. It starts with red and ends with herring.

Wow, you chuckleheads are really lowering the bar...

As usual you are on target!
Dr. Sowell:

As usual you are right on target. But a target the government and politicians do not want to admit to, talk about, or do anything reasonable about! Socialized health care! Bah Humbug! And may we pass a law forbidding anyone (no exclusions for the politicians!)from going anywhere but the US to get healthcare services; AND all the politicians have major health problems and have to wait months, no years, for treatment; if they live that long! IMHO! :-)

Yo, baseballdoc...
.. forcing everyone get insurance is not the way to go..today I'm forced to carry auto insurance to protect the the innocent person if I get in an accident, not to cover my loses..now you want to force me to get insurance to cover my loses if I get sick..what if I never get sick, what if I never incurr a loss through health?? not fair to penalize me for someone else's bad health habits by spreading the costs around, that only works if everyone is assured of having a loss at some point.

Govt Crapola
This all started with price controls during World War II when companies used benefits added to controlled wages to attract workers. Unions (socialist concept) took from there and added to contract negotiations. From there, Johnson added Medicare and Medicaid and finally Bush with the Pharma add-on. The theme for all this is govt interference and socialism. Anything touched by govt turns to expensive crapola. Call those who want this system what they truly are - THIEVES.

socialized medicine
As the Supreme Court ruled in Canada, access to a waiting line is not the same as access to health care. Yet, so many seem to want the access to the waiting line that will INEVITABLY result from socialized medical care.


Vic
I didn't say anything about Republicans, or Democrats with this issue.

My comments were directed toward Mr. Sowell's comments opposing price controls for drugs.

We're in agreement about other things.

dogjudge
All of that is wonderful but the Dem congress along with Bill Clinton gave the drug companies longer patent rights AND on top of that gave them the ability to even extend that patent by making a minor change to the drug that really has no impact on it's effectiveness. That significantly drives up the costs by delaying the entry of "generics".

Pharmaceutical Companies and Drug Prices
I won't get into some of Mr. Sowell's arguments, but there's a pretty large one when it comes to drug pricing.

No argument about the length of time that it takes pharmaceutical companies to develop and test drugs. It is huge, no argument there. (I won't go into those drugs that the government develops and turns over to the drug companies for free, that's another discussion.) Millions and millions of dollars.

Part of THOSE costs could be mitigated by reducing some of the FDA oversight in these areas which is absolutely stupid. Unfortunately you have to have worked with the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA to understand this silliness. Example. Formulations once made CANNOT be changed without the approval process have to be done again. For the active component of the drug, that's understandable. For something such as a red color that is ridiculous and only drives up the cost of the drug.

Now about price controls.

The pharmaceuticals are given product protection and simply allowed to charge whatever the market will bear. That's great up to a point.

The government DOESN'T allow consumers to band together to leverage lower pricing.

Until this market is free to do that type of thing, pharmaceutical companies are free to gouge us to their heart's content.

Medicare
I wish medicare was free.Between my wife and me it costs us about 3600 dollars a year.Now I realize that is not much money to alot of people,but it is to us.This does not include dental care glasses and medicines.I could go to the V.A. for help,but I prefer to leave that to vets that really need the care.Doctors will only take so many medicare patients as they are not reimbursed at a very good rate.

We should
holler loud, say we DONOT want SOCIALIST health care + all the other socialistic entitlments.

If any state should decide to secede from the union, that is where i'll move.

Elaboration correction
"Yet they were able to afford health insurance."

This should say that they were able to afford healthCARE, because they didn't have health insurance.

Health Cost
Dr. Sowell; an interesting though provoking article. Reading the comments on this subject from your readers, it appears there are primarily 2 groups commenting.

1st group = people who graduated at least from high school before 1960.

2nd group = of people graduating after 1960.
The opinions expressed from group 1 generally show people who are independent, & believe we are responsible for our own well being.

The 2nd group generally have been taught in school etc. that Government shall and should be responsible for all aspects of our lives including health care. I believe the single biggest cost of health care; Doctors Fees, Hospital Cost, Drug Cost, and other cost not mentioned is, Government induced interference period.
The time when we the American People looked to ourselves for solutions to everyday problems is long gone. Giant Government ( Big Brother Is Here) apparently it's what most Americans want in todays Society.

Elaboration
"Interesting observation... would you mind elaborating? I am honestly curious to hear more."


It currently costs billions over the course of a decade to get through the regulatory costs of bringing a drug to market. This prices out what would be low cost innovation. It also artificially protects big business, because small businesses wouldn't be able to pay for the regulatory costs. (our system-fascism)

In most of the rest of the world, prescription drugs are cheaper, however, governments set the price, barrely making it possible for a company to break even. (socialism)

Prior to the creation of HMOs, Medicare, Medicaid, a prescription drug benefit, etc...our healthcare system was more timely and efficient then the rest of the world, but, as a % of GDP, took up only as much resources as the socialized countries.

Now, in America, while we are still timely served, we are so only by paying though the nose, and only if done through a method that further enriches big businesses.

I'll give some examples so nobody thinks I'm making crass generalizations:

My grandparents raised 7 kids on a single income from the local US Pipe company. Yet they were able to afford health insurance. For checkups, when her oldest 3 were still young, she was able to send them to the neighborhood doctor and get charge $5. Adjusted for inflation, thats about $50 now.

There was one instance in a snow storm where 3 of her kids became sick. She called another neighborhood doctor. The doctor made a house call and charged her $2. Adjusted for inflation, thats about $20 now.

How common is it now, for someone without health insurance to get an emergency house call in a snowstorm for $20, or 3 checkups for $50?

This is what was available prior to government intervention in our healthcare system, back when our medical system more thoroughly resembled a free market.

It Ain't 'Insurance'!!! Part 2

That is why medical insurance worked for Dr. Sowell and others in the past. It did not insure them against the almost certain prospect of needing the services of a doctor but against the less likely and more financially catastrophic prospect of being hospitalized. As the coverage is expanded to include more and more likely occurrences the financial viability of insurance breaks down. It is burdened even further by all the middlemen, insurance companies, HMO’s et al that such a system requires and who all add further to the total cost.

Absent the financial viability upon which the concept of insurance relies what we are left with, by whatever name you choose to use, is some form of collectivism. The merits of that constitute a whole other discussion. The point here is that we can not hope to deal with it rationally if we persist in thinking and talking of it as some form of insurance.

It Ain't 'Insurance'!!! Part1
Part of the problem in these discussions is that we think and talk of it as ‘insurance’ without understanding that such schemes violate the basic parameters by which the financial viability of ‘insurance’ depends. Insurance works financially only when that against which its participants are being insured is less than likely to occur to all of them. Insurance companies call it ‘actuarials’. The idea is that those who are concerned about the financial impact of certain untoward events besetting them pool their money so that it can be used to offset such costs by those unfortunate enough to require it. They are happy if and when those costs are larger than the premiums they have paid into it. That additional money is available to them from the premiums paid by the more fortunate participants who are, themselves, happy to have escaped misfortune and who consider the peace of mind the coverage they paid but did not collect on to have been to have been worth that cost . The insurance companies are happy when there is enough left over, along with whatever return they have been able to garner by investing that money before it needed to be paid out, to cover their costs and provide them an acceptable profit. Even ‘life’ insurance fulfills these parameters because it does not insure one against the inevitable prospect of dying but against the less likely prospect of doing so soon after gaining the coverage and before the premiums paid grow larger than the policy returns. Ironically, if you die young you win, if not, you lose.

Loyal Democrat
Man Atlas isnt gunna just shrug he's gunna chuck the whole shebang

It's not enough...
The government should provide unlimited free health care as a means to ease the burden on people who feel health insurance cost too much. There is no reason any American should pay for an expense that they feel is too high.

Likewise, many Americans find that auto insurance premiums cut into their savings. Some people have high rates because of an accident or DUI, and they cannot easily afford the added cost such a record incurs. To remedy this, the government should step in with unlimited free car repair. People will obtain relief from high auto insurance rates, and the government can handle all aspects of the auto repair industry.

Finally, homeowners insurance is quite expensive as well. In order to alleviate that problem, the government should step in and repair damaged or worn properties. All house repair could then be conrolled by the government, and the citizens will get a break from expensive property insurance rates.

It is time that we make the government take care of the expenses that we find troublesome. Nobody should be liable for their own upkeep, and the adoption of a national comprehensive health, auto, and property coverage is the next logical step to reaching utopia.

Mandatory House Care
and everyone should be entitled to a hybrid, a 25,000 square foot house, and a staff of people who will do jobs Americans don't want to keep the house clean, lawn mown, and landscaping.

Libs are phonies. They cannot argue ideas without inserting class envy while they are themselves rich.

Put another way
Washington we dont want no stinkin UHC or any more hep thank you very much

Extortion Insurance
I'd like to see an Insurance plan that protects me from extortion. It should provide me with a sufficient armed force that makes it impossible for any organization to extort my hard earned dollars. OH OH am I asking the very extortioners themselves to protect me. My oh my I do have a problem.

mandatory legal care
$ush proposed mandatory legal care. Everyone must see a lawyer. The entire legal system would be run by the govt who would set fees and cap lawyer salaries at $200,000. per year. This is a far more appealing govt plan than anything for health. Govt control of lawyers would be far more beneficial to our society. In fact this would mean a lowering of many costs that are now added to the cost of goods and services to fund millionaire lawyer salaries

A quote...
that seems to cover most of what ails us in the good ol' U.S. of A.:

"Most men do not desire freedom. They only wish for a just master." - Salus

Quoted from memory, so don't beat me up if I misworded it.

Trust the Govt?
If the IRS can't even keep secret tax payers' social security numbers, why on earth would anyone think our govt can run health care?

And just how hard is it to get Health Care? I can get fired tomorrow AM and by the end of the day have a job with a health plan. Come on, we just have too many lazy people being told the rich take it from them...and its OK to take money from the ones who provide the jobs?

An answer to health care needs--
As a former member of Gen. Patton's old outfit, the Third Armored Division, I get a little help from the VA on rare occasions and have access to Medicare, which I don't use other than to get a WMCA gym membership. I beat the entire system, however, by staying superbly healthy. I never need the assistance of a doctor for anything serious, and I never use pharmaceuticals now that I have learned how to use cutting-edge nutrition and intense, Max Contraction style exercise to keep my body as healthy at 72 as it was at 30-35.

I am deeply disappointed in people, young and old, who are too lazy or indifferent to read about and apply the latest findings in the science of anti-aging as developed by organizations like The Life Extension Foundation (lef.org). People who refuse to take the time to read terrific books like those by Dr. Perricone, Dr. Jordan Rubin and Suzanne Somers will become victims of the evil system designed to quickly and expertly relieve them of their money and their lives.

Were the powers-that-be willing to promote and finance wholistic preventive health care as any sane person would, our present lousy health care system would be barely used and, thus, under no pressure to enter the hellish gate to full-blown, national socialized medicine.

As most bloggers on this site know well, our current system is rooted in profound ignorance and corruption beyond compare. And, sadly, that is highly unlikely to change in our lifetime. So, let us now promote our own health and that of our families as best we can using excellent, cutting-edge nutrition and the most innovative twenty first century exercise protocols while sharing with others as opportunities present themselves.

Here we go again - - -
- - yet another case of "required-reading" for the Hillary R. Clintons, John Edwards, et al.

And their multitude of sympathizers in leftist poltics, the media and those who want-something-for-nothing.

As usual, Dr. Sowell nailed it. But, who, except for the choir, are listening?

cost almost zero dollars
I have come up with an efficient, easy way to cut costs for medical care. When Health Care becomes free for everyone, people will be so happy — that includes the patient, the doctor, hospital, pharmacy, laboratory, and everyone else who is in the Health care System, except of course all the insurance people.

And remember that includes the one or two people in most Doctor’s offices who fill out insurance papers. Millions will become unemployed.

But since all the people and all the organizations still in business will be so happy because of the single payer idea, to administer the system, will cost almost zero dollars.

I propose that we let each doctor and medical organization write a check on a government bank account at the end of each day. There would be no need for paper work, therefore no cost to administer such a system, thereby cutting the cost for the government operated health care system in about one-half of what it costs now.

If all those people are so happy, they will also be honest and truthful, right?

Easy Way to Low Cost
affordable Health Insurance is very simple.

Enlist at 18 in the service of your choice, spend 20 to 30 years and retire. Then take up the health insurance.

Of course, you might get shot at and hit, but you take your chances.

Love to see the Mickey Moore's of the world try to survive that little scenario. LOL

Insured Are The Suckers
At this I point I really feel that those of us with Health Insurance are the suckers. John Stossell needs to do an undercover investigation in which he sends out a supposedly uninsured penniless indivdual with vague symptoms through the maze of government provided healthcare. I want to know if the less convenient aspects of "free" healthcare in this country are a good tradeoff for not having to pay a dime for my family's healthcare. My gut instinct is that the inconvenience is worth the huge savings.

One thing is for sure, with our country adding approximately 100 million inhabitants primarily from the 3rd world every 30 years or so through legal and illegal immigration there's going to be a lot more new "Americans" waiting to receive their "free" healthcare in the emergency rooms, hospitals, and clinics of this country. Perhaps I should join them.

Serious healthcare issues!
Healthcare is not a right! It is a personal responsibility to take care of yourself & your loved ones. Having worked in ER's for over 25 years, it is truly shocking to see how many people do not have even a basic understanding of the human body. I had a patient once who came in complaining of a fever. A 31 year old male who did not know enough to take a tylenol. He'd only had the fever for an hour and was crying, scarred and would I please call his mother!!!

Another thing that constantly amazes me is the overwhelming majority of whiners out there who complain about abuse of power, the Patriot Act overreaching, etc. And yet these are the same people who are willing to give the gov't healthcare system the most intimate details of their lives and manage this info confidentially. You've got to be kidding me! We've created a world where everyone feels entitled. Many patients who come to the ER cannot believe that the service isn't free. Try getting a copay, it's like pulling teeth. Most patients expect meds on discharge. I had a couple actually upset that their child was not given an rx. It has become an expectation. I could rant for hours on the abuse but the important point is No One is Entitled to free healthcare. It is your responsibility to care for yourself. A case can be made for subsidizing those with chronic/congenital disabilities/deformities etc and the military but to have the expectation that the gov't is everything to everyone is just ridiculous. And frankly I am not willing to pay for it!

Serious healthcare issues!
Healthcare is not a right! It is a personal responsibility to take care of yourself & your loved ones. Having worked in ER's for over 25 years, it is truly shocking to see how many people do not have even a basic understanding of the human body. I had a patient once who came in complaining of a fever. A 31 year old male who did not know enough to take a tylenol. He'd only had the fever for an hour and was crying, scarred and would I please call his mother!!!

Another thing that constantly amazes me is the overwhelming majority of whiners out there who complain about abuse of power, the Patriot Act overreaching, etc. And yet these are the same people who are willing to give the gov't healthcare system the most intimate details of their lives and manage this info confidentially. You've got to be kidding me! We've created a world where everyone feels entitled. Many patients who come to the ER cannot believe that the service isn't free. Try getting a copay, it's like pulling teeth. Most patients expect meds on discharge. I had a couple actually upset that their child was not given an rx. It has become an expectation. I could rant for hours on the abuse but the important point is No One is Entitled to free healthcare. It is your responsibility to care for yourself. A case can be made for subsidizing those with chronic/congenital disabilities/deformities etc and the military but to have the expectation that the gov't is everything to everyone is just ridiculous. And frankly I am not willing to pay for it!

Another nail hit squarely on the head...
...by Dr. Sowell. With John Edwards proposing a $90 to $120 billion per year program of universal health care (as reported by Time) with more Democratic "plans" to follow, I have to wonder where (and if) all this will end.

When a "government plan" (an oxymoron if ever there were one) is proposed to cost $100 billion per year, you can bet it will be 3-5 times that in practice. We cannot, as a nation afford universal health insurance any more than we can afford another "war on poverty" (also in Edwards' and others' bag of promises).

Folks, if you can see the handwriting on the wall ("Big Government: You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet!"), you need to start a "War on Illiteracy," and quick!

Thanks, Dr. Sowell, for the most rnjoyable expose.

Cheers,

Ron Albright

http://www.ronalbright.com

Moonkeeper
Interesting observation... would you mind elaborating? I am honestly curious to hear more.

govt enforced health treatment
states mandate that while riding in myour automobile you must always buckle up and some states infact ticket non-compliers. Yet many states simultaneously allow motorcyle riders to cruise about with helmets. When these riders get into accidents and those incidences are increasing yearly, the costs are even more astronomical. Many lack insurance and injuries to the head are the most costly to mend if they can be mended. Why are those riding motorcylcles allowed to put themselves at a higher health cost risk that society must pay for. There is however a very simple solution. You ride your motorcycle without a helmet and you lack sufficient insurance you assume full risk. Let motorcylce riders be held accountable for their own actions rather than billing society for their folly

less you need, the less you pay
Seventy years ago I remember going to the doctor maybe 3 times from a few years old to when I left home, and it cost about $1 each visit.

My sister had an appendix operation that cost $25.

Just remember, in those days 100% of the people DID NOT have health insurance. Today’s problems started because health insurance came into existence, not because insurance is lacking for some people.

Fifty-five years ago I spent two days in a hospital in Santa Monica. I had no insurance, and that cost me about $100.

Twenty years ago my wife cracked a rib, and her night in the hospital in Rancho Mirage cost $1,500, insurance paid most of that.

Today that wouldn’t get you from the parking lot to the cashier.

I just can’t wait for a Socialized Post Office. This idea that I must pay postage for all the mail I send, and pay each and every time I send it, is just ridiculous. Why not pay an annual fee (camouflaged in my taxes) then I would be able to send all the mail I want to send, needed or not.

Free health care (or any other free Government item) means that if you don't want it, or don't need it, your tax bill does not go down. If you pay for your own health care and your postage, the less you use, the less you need, the less you pay.

crescen7 writes:A simpler plan
This is an excerpt from; A simpler plan...and it reminds me of a solution from an old movie released in 1973...Soylent Green, I guess if they cannot outsource the elderly to India, there is always Soylent Green ha ha...Did you forget China? Great place for outsourcing don't you think! For those who do not know what Soylent Green is look it up on the net.

A possible market based solution is coming from foreign markets. Amazingly, there are now full care nursing facilities marketed to aging American and European citizens thriving in INDIA!! One can receive full nursing care there for about $600 a month. Medical "resorts" are springing up all over the world.

Insurers should be able to allow the option of getting foreign based care. (of course standards would have to be established) Any amount of competition which would add to the "supply" side of our scarce resource of medical care would be helpful.

health insurance
asnother scam pushed on the working people is how hospitals transfers funds. My wife works at a hospital. A portion of every years increase in the amount we paid for health insurance was to help pay for all the care given to indigents and those without insurance who came for "free" trteatment. The govt mandates care and the the wage earners continue to support those unwilling to take care of their own needs. This notion of "entitlements" is absurb at is basis. Why are those unwilling to ber productive citizens always benefit at the expense of those willing to do all the work. Yet govt has told several generations that no matter how many poor decisions you make, no matter that you are ill-prepared to become producers, we will always save you. Again those on the left are willing to bankrupt all to save those who have elected to be losers in our society

The obsession with dis-ease and
"have to have" health care in this country drives me nuts. I've watched realtives, in my own and on both sides of my family, fight various cancers, and the resulting toll it took on them and their families emotionally and financially was awful with and without medical insurance. I made up my mind long ago never to fear death that much. When it's time, death comes to all of us, young and old no matter what you do or don't do. Health care? You want it, you pay for it on your own or do without it. Either way, you won't ultimately cheat death.

I'll repeat myself
Every time I see a post on Townhall about socialized medicine, I always post the same thing:

The reason socialized medicine looks so good to some people is because its being compared to what we have now, which is a fascist medical system. A free market system would blow them both out of the water.

Correction
Close the door to access to "free" health care by illegals.

Providers are not the crooks
Health care providers are not the "crooks" that drive up costs. Aside from the reasonable view that providers have spent a lot of time and effort to learn their skills (at considerable expense), and we CERTAINLY demand that they be infallible, why should they not be allowed to earn a wage?

Look at the real "crooks"....We need TORT reform, a free market (No Mandates from Government & Insurance companies) and to close the door on access to health care by illegals.

Insurance should be for catastrophic coverage only, and should be a competitive market (across state lines) to keep costs reasonable.

The dirty little secret no one wants you to know is that providers do not want the Medicare/Medicaid and Insurance dollars. Most reimbursements require extra staff & time & money to process the paperwork, to get low-ball fees (they are capped) that are slow to be paid out to them.

Look at the government's track record for the military and you'll see an example of what UHC would be like. Been there, done that. You don't want it.

The $20 aspirin
sedonaman quotes his wife on this topic:

"1. Wages and benefits for the doctor, the nurse, the pharmacist, etc. who give it to you;

"2. Malpractice Insurance in case you are given the wrong medicine and/or the wrong dosage;

"3. The aspirin for others who can't or won't pay for their own;

"4. Administrative costs."

BINGO!!!!! We ALREADY HAVE cost-sharing regulated into our "health care system." We share all the costs, for the treatment, regulation, and lititgation burdens of everyone, whenever we pay a bill, whether it's our insurance premium, a co-pay, or a hospital bill.

We are doing the same thing, BTW, when we buy a bottle of 100 aspirin for $4 at WalMart. If you think you aren't paying WalMart's taxes, its start-up fees in infrastructure improvements for the city, its special assessments to the county for parks and schools, and all of its operating costs, including those regulated by the state (and not the market) like wages, benefits, environmental recovery fees, and those same quantities in the costs of everyone WalMart contracts with -- well, if you think that, you don't know jack.

Increased regulation, buried in cost-sharing, makes prices go up. Period.

Our Expectations
Part of the health-care problem is our expectations. We expect to live to a ripe old age ... and we'll go to great lengths (expense) to make it happen. Heart transplants? Years ago, we would have simply died when our hearts gave out. Now, we shop for new hearts ... and go on living. We are helping to drive up the cost of health care with our desire to live for as long as we can ... at any cost.

Theft by hosiptals or by gov't?
No argument Ron about the high bills for medical care. Why was the bill so high? Many hospitals are treating the 12 to 20 million illegals and guess who is paying the bill? Right those of us with insurance or private pay.
Also, the great gov't programs, like Medicare and Medicaid, have such low pay scales the Medical industry are required to accept by law. Therefore, the increased costs are passed on to those with insurance or private pay. I have watched health insurance premiums skyrocket over the past 7 years. They are becoming worse because of the increased amount of single payer (gov't) and uninsured. The cost to the private individuals and companies providing health insurance is increasing at a staggering rate, because the gov't is playing with the pricing and pay scales.
The old market driven system (before Medicaid and Medicare) delivered much the same care at a less expesive price. Other increased costs are the advanced technologies now available, but again the gov't payscale to and provider does not usually cover the cost of service and guess who is paying the bill again. Yep, the US taxpayer. We pay it in payroll taxes and again in the insurance premiums or deductions we pay or have deducted from out payroll.

the government machine
Hospitals have greater and greater technology because both the government and the people demand it. For example, a mother came in to the ED for the 3rd time in 2 weeks because her 9 y/o daughter had leg pain. Her daughter is a competetive ice skater. The mother was demanding an MRI and pain medication. Afterall, her daughter already had several x-rays, they showed nothing, so surely the MRI would reveal the truth. When the doctor told the mother to have the girl rest, she went ballistic. These types of demands happen over and over again, much to the physician's detriment.
Regulatory agencies that now publicly report hospital data force the hands of the healthcare workers to meet the measures set forth by such agencies in order to receive their share of market basket reimbursement. That translates into millions of dollars that are at stake. Actually, aspirin is just one such measure.....so if you are having chest pain and don't want to pay $20 for an aspirin, my recommendation is to chew one before the ambulance arrives. By the way, most physicians (at least in NY) must pay a certain percentage into a general fund that then is distributed to the hospitals in order to cover the costs of indigent patients. And most importantly, you CAN negotiate payment terms with a hospital and a physician.....moreover I would like to see the real statistics that say mandatory coverage for everyone will make them healthier.....and by the way who actually has the final say on how long we SHOULD be living?????????

Paying for Mr. Couch Potato
Doug writes, "I don't want to pay taxes so some 350-pound beer-swilling, chain-smoking couch potato can have bypass surgery, then go home and trash the surgeon's work by resuming the same self-destructive lifestyle that destroyed his heart in the first place."

I don't either, but assuming that you have medical insurance, you're paying for him anyway with premiums that are higher than they should be. My insurance provider, Kaiser Permanente, has a vigorous preventative care program, and I would hope that any national system (and some such system---probably a government-private hybrid---seems nearly inevitable at this point) includes a well-thought-out set of carrots and sticks to encourage better lifestyle choices.

Theft by hospitals
I recently had a serious accident. The hospital bill was $72,000. My insurance paid $29,000 as settlement for the entire bill. This hospital attempted to steal $43,000 from me as a private individual. Private health care is ridiculous unless the providers stop acting like thieves. Similarly, such attempted thefts make insurance almost a necessity. One of the previous commenters suggested negotiating a bill. I'd prefer honest bills rather than negotiation with a bunch of crooks.

ONE SOLUTION THAT WOULD WORK

.....But will never happen ...

.....I presented the problem of health care and health insurance to my computer COLOSSUS and the following is a summary of a lengthly print out ...

.....Health insurance should be modeled on Auto Insurance and should be administered by the States ...

.....All working adults 18 and up would be required by the State to carry mandatory health insurance ...the unemployed or indigent would be covered by medicaid ...

.....Just as Auto insurance does not cover routine maintenance ...replacing tires ..oil changes etc ...neither would health insurance cover the cost of aspirins and bandaids ...

.....There would be a large deductible for long term or catastrophic illness or injury ...which would vary depending on the plan and the premiums paid ...

.....With a large pool of workers all paying for their own health insurance the premiums would be low enough to be affordable ...just as everyone can afford their own auto insurance ...

.....Most important of all ...keep the Federal Government out of Health Care ...the FDA should be replaced by an independent laboratory financed by the drug companies to regulate and insure quality ...similiar to the UIL laboratories ...

.....I know that our all powerful Federal Government will never allow this to happen but it is a plan that would work if it were not for the fact that slaves cannot tell their masters how to rule .....COLOSSUS

What stats?
Our life expectancy in the US is twice Africa's.

Where does the figure come from that we get less life expectancy?

Two generations ago in 1910, 90% of the US pop. lived on farms, and people had a life expect. of 41 years. My father's mother died at 28 in childbirth in 1910, my mother's father died at 36 (heart, but maybe allergy) in 1915, my mother's mother died of stroke at 41 (childbirth) in 1921 (my father's father lived till 96 and died in 1974).

Now 90% of the US pop. lives in urban/suburban areas and women have a life exp. of 78 and men of 72, but if you are over 60 and relatively healthy today, your exp. is 85.

Our cell division limits us to 100-120, unless we can get cells to be viable longer or we become cyborgs, a la Star Trek.

Just say NO to government's 'Healthcare'
Insurance costs more than what I would spend by paying for medical care as needed. It would even be pricier if the government was paying for it. Taxes would go up while quality of care would go down. Some people will go to a hospital for the least little health problems, things that people used to take care of themselves. Most everybody could learn to take care of their OWN healthcare instead of clogging up the hospitals which makes it take longer for those with serious medical problems to get treated quickly! Prescriptions usually don't cure anything. My dad had a table full of prescription drug bottles & died anyway! Stay away from any prescription drugs, hospitals & allowing the government to take control of how you care for your health! I stay healthier just by staying away from the 'medical establishment' & their prescription drugs. Agree with Mr Sowell that medical treatment was cheaper before it was taken over by the insurance companies.

Honey West...
...They bill you for their expenses.They may have a machine in their hospital that costs 1 million dollars,even though you didn't need the machine.But the few people who did need the machine could not afford to pay for it,hence the cost is spread around to all patients.We have always had socialized medicen,it was just a matter of bookkeeping,thats all.

No Healthcare
Yes yes all true. Unhappily, the number of Americans reading such truths are few. That is the reason for most of our ills, pun intended.

No such thing as national health care

You will not let the giver-ment redistribute your money for somebody’s new car, taking an extra week of vacation, working only 10 hours a week, buying Nikes for the kids, sending the kids to summer camp. So giver-ment tells its voters, I’ll steal money for you but I won’t tell them what you want it for, I’ll tell them that it is to keep you alive. Certainly nobody will mind having his money stolen to keep you alive.

So, buy that new car and instead of paying for your health care this year, I’ll steal the money from your neighbor to pay for your health insurance. My slogan is vote for me get your new car for free.

Health comes before food, housing, utilities, clothing. If you are in great pain, all you want is for it to stop, not a new dress, or steak dinner. Therefore it is the first dollar you will spend. If I pay that for you, then you free your dollars up for your wish list. All entitlements are merely money for a new car or longer vacation, never the phony reason given that would be covered by your first dollars.

Also, Honey West asks why an aspirin cost $20. The hospital calculates all the people it gives an aspirin to, let us say 20 illegals, then charges the one legal guy who will pay for them. When the 20 people become 30, 40 and the one guy refuses to pay $40 for an aspirin the hospital closes as is happening in border states.

No such thing as national health plan

You will not let the giver-ment redistribute your money for somebody’s new car, taking an extra week of vacation, working only 10 hours a week, buying Nikes for the kids, sending the kids to summer camp. So giver-ment tells its voters, I’ll steal money for you but I won’t tell them what you want it for, I’ll tell them that it is to keep you alive. Certainly nobody will mind having his money stolen to keep you alive.

So, buy that new car and instead of paying for your health care this year, I’ll steal the money from your neighbor to pay for your health insurance. My slogan is vote for me get your new car for free.

Health comes before food, housing, utilities, clothing. If you are in great pain, all you want is for it to stop, not a new dress, or steak dinner. Therefore it is the first dollar you will spend. If I pay that for you, then you free your dollars up for your wish list. All entitlements are merely money for a new car or longer vacation, never the phony reason given that would be covered by your first dollars.

Also, Honey West asks why an aspirin cost $20. The hospital calculates all the people it gives an aspirin to, let us say 20 illegals, then charges the one legal guy who will pay for them. When the 20 people become 30, 40 and the one guy refuses to pay $40 for an aspirin the hospital closes as is happening in border states.

Another gimick
Just another way to extort money gain power and control us. And we fall for it every time. They say people get the kind of government they deserve. Wake up America

Third party payments
If people had to pay wage taxes on their health insurance premiums, we'd suddenly see an outbreak of more rational choices: higher deductibles and co-pays, less unnecessary office visits and procedures, more self-insurance for the little stuff. We must make the consumers of services financially responsible! Why this simple truth evades lawmakers is beyond me.

This goes for Medicare and Medicaid, too. Higher financial stakes will cut down on abuse. Those who require 100% free care can receive theirs at government clinics (shudder).


Benefiting the giver
.
As a former government employee, I can say that ***government gives out benefits to benefit the giver, NOT the receiver***. That's why government is inefficient at most things.


President Reagan said...
Like President Reagan said,
"They [Democrats] are the same people who rediscover poverty every election and promise to cure it. They've cured it so often that they've now made a profession of it. They thrive on failures, on righting wrongs, on aiding victims, and so forth. It must be understood that success in those tasks would put them out of business. No matter how many programs are set up and operating, their proponents never claim success for them. To do so would be to say the problems have been solved, meaning the programs are no longer needed. And the programs, not the problems, are their very reason for being."

Honey West
Of course it's ridiculous, the $20 aspirin (and they won't let you bring your own, or even your own prescribed medications). But it's not just the aspirin, it's the pharmacy to dispense it, the doctor to allow it/prescribe it, and the nurse to bring it and the water with which to take it. And the fact that they have to make $$ where they can, having "negotiated" near give-away prices with the Government and the insurance companies.

If you were paying your own bill, I'll bet you could negotiate THAT price down.

Health Care
Speaking of challenging our neighbors on their behavior (inkling_revival), many of our 'friends' help their parents become 'impoverished' so that they - the children - can get their parents money and put the financial burden of their - the parents - care on the government. Despicable! No wonder nursing homes are springing up all over and end of life costs are skyrocketing.

$20 Aspirin
.
"Why in the world does an aspirin--cost $20.00 in a hospital?? lets start with that!!!!"

My wife is an emergency room nurse. She explains that the $20 is not just for the aspirin but for many other things as well, such as:

1. Wages and benefits for the doctor, the nurse, the pharmacist, etc. who give it to you;

2. Malpractice Insurance in case you are given the wrong medicine and/or the wrong dosage;

3. The aspirin for others who can't or won't pay for their own;

4. Administrative costs.

It costs a lot of money to run any business, and its overhead expenses have to be amortized over everything the workers do.

When Government "helps"
I would point out that after Government began programs of grants and loans for students' college tuition, colleges began raising their tuition. Tuitions have risen at a rate several times the rate of inflation. (My out-of-state tuition at a Kentucky college was $500 in 1962--and I'm not even an illegal alien!)

So are colleges as greedy as doctors, hospitals and pharmaceutical companies? Or has a college education improved as much as medical care has improved in the last half-century? (Ha!)

Of course, many students, too wealthy for outright grants, left college with huge loan indebtedness. But, as with medical bills, many of them just didn't bother repaying their loans, while others paid (or are paying) for years and years after graduation.

Why aren't those who are anxious to get the greedy insurance companies out of the loop asking for direct payment by individuals to their doctors? Unthinkable!!


Inkling revival, krystalbird
Regarding the off-topic comments and outright deceptions of both "nobsartist" and "brainsnotrhetoric," recall the words of wisdom from Dr. Sowell posted just yesterday in his "Random Thoughts" column:

"One of the painful signs of years of dumbed-down education is how many people are unable to make a coherent argument. They can vent their emotions, question other people's motives, make bold assertions, repeat slogans-- anything except reason."

Hospitals will accept less
renny and others have commented on doctors accepting less from cash patients. The truth is, you can negotiate the prices of health care with the provider, even if it's a huge hospital. They will accept less than the posted price if you sit down with them and negotiate. You just have to have the stones to ask.

High costs due to litigation
lodestar wrote at 7:58 AM, "our costs are 2x ANY other system per capita with no greater life expectancy"

...and we have 75% of the lawyers on the planet. The two are related.

Health care costs are high for several reasons, including the deliberate shortage of doctors. But one of the largest and most preventable costs is the rise in malpractice litigation.

I live in Pennsylvania, where a number of doctors have chosen to go out of business because the cost of malpractice insurance has rendered their practices unprofitable. My family physician, a man who deliberately underbooked so he would have more time to spend with each patient, chose to retire early and move to Tennessee to teach at a medical college because his practice lost money one year.

We have nobody to blame but ourselves, sadly. I remember verbally reaming a person online for choosing to get rich by suing a doctor; I called him a leech, and explained that MY medical costs were high because of his greed. We need to be candid with our neighbors about this, because too many people will sue the doctor just because they can.

Tort reform is the way to go.

And we watch the left create another lie
The improperly named "no bs artist," at 5:26 AM this morning, rang a bracing wake-up message by posting an altogether-too-common attempt to rewrite history from the left.

Bs artist attempted to blame HMOs on Richard Nixon, saying it was the first instance of medicine for profit "blessed by Richard Nixon."

It's a lie, as usual.

A) Medicine has always been for profit. HMOs were an attempt to change the incentives in favor of preventive care.

B) HMOs were a free market alternative until TED KENNEDY championed a bill forcing employers to offer HMO coverage.

Nice to know the Lie Machine is still churning out nasty stuff, though. Wouldn't want bs artist to lose his identity...

The problem is insurance
When I retired, I gave up my dental ins. because it would be $600 for $1000 coverage. As my typical dental history is two checkups a year, I elected to pay cash for them.

Now I pay 1/2 the "ins. price." My dentist says I save him waiting for the ins. $ to come in, don't take up the time of his employee who does nothing but file and chase ins. money, and he knows my check won't bounce.

I don't know if I'll get the same break with another dentist when he retires, but I know others without ins. who make arrangements to pay meedical bills by installment. I don't know if their total bills are less than ins. claims, but I wouldn't be surprised.

A History Lesson
I'm a bit surprised that Dr Sowell neglected to mention the fact that health insurance was included in employee compensation as a response to Federal meddling with the economy. During WWII, the FDR admin clamped wage controls on employers, ostensibly to prevent profiteering supported by a tight labor market due to the war effort. Employers reacted by adding non-wage compensation, including health insurance, which was called hospitalization because coverage was intended to only protect empolyees from catastrophic high dollar hospital care. Over time, led by union demands coverage became more generous until we arrived at the time when most people interpret the phrase health insurance to be semantically equivalent to unlimited access to free medical care.