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Tuesday, June 12, 2007
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Bipartisan betrayal
by Thomas Sowell
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With immigration, as with other issues, the most important decision is: Who is to make the decision?

It should be too obvious for words that decisions about who is to come into the United States and live among Americans should be made in the United States by Americans.

In reality, however, for years that decision has been made in Mexico by Mexicans and by others who chose to cross the border from Mexico into the United States with impunity, knowing that even if they were caught, they would at worst be turned back -- and could try again.

Many would not even have to face that. They would be released within the United States, with instructions to report back to the authorities for legal proceedings. But why should they be expected to obey that legal requirement when they did not obey the law against crossing the border in the first place?

None of these facts is news. Nor is it rocket science to figure out what the consequences have been and will be.

Both political parties know what is going on and both parties choose to see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil. Neither wants to risk losing the Hispanic vote, though it is doubtful whether all Hispanics are in favor of open borders.

The net result has been empty promises about controlling the border, paired with various schemes to legalize the illegal immigrants, and washed down with fraudulent statements that insult our intelligence.

The first of these frauds is the argument that the economy "needs" illegal immigrants to fill "jobs that Americans won't take." Both parts of this argument ignore the most obvious three-letter word that is left out: Pay.

Virtually any job is a job that Americans will not take, if the pay is low enough. Nor is there any reason for pay to rise if illegal immigrants are available at low pay.

Then there is the "family reunification" fraud which claims that we cannot in good conscience keep out the families of illegal immigrants who are living in the United States but must let those families reunite.

With all the nations on the face of the earth, why is the United States of America the only country in which someone can be united with his family? Illegal immigrants can reunite with their families back where they came from.

The grand fraud of all is the claim that we must have "comprehensive" immigration reform -- that is, simultaneously deal with border control and the legal status of illegal immigrants already here.

There is no logical reason why these two issues must be dealt with together, though there are political reasons why elected officials want to do so. Passing border laws described as "tough" gives Congress political cover when they legalize the illegals.

It allows Congress to be on both sides of the issue, which is where most politicians want to be on most issues.

From the standpoint of the country, however, it is urgently important that the two issues be taken up separately, with border control being proven to be established first.

Otherwise, the American people get promises from politicians with a long track record of broken promises, especially on immigration, while illegal immigrants get their benefits up front and irrevocably for themselves and for the additional millions more who will cross the border.

Last year, the sop to the American people was the promise of a fence on the border. This year, the big question is: "Where is the fence?"

That will still be the question ten years from now, if we let the politicians soothe us with words.

The one encouraging aspect of the immigration issue is that the combined efforts of the White House and both Houses of Congress, together with most of the media, have thus far failed to turn the immigration fraud into the law of the land.

It is a disgrace that they have tried but a healthy sign of the commonsense of the people that they have still not succeeded.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Kudos for President Bush
We should applaud President Bush for his efforts to make amnesty a priority by ramming an unexamined immigration reform bill through congress. The President was elected to ensure that the world’s indigent are content, and he knows that since we are able to service the needs of our southern neighbors, we are obligated to do so. Thus, we simply have to make all illegal aliens into citizens, and we must do so immediately.

Bush knows that America was founded as a means to provide an economic safety net to the world. Our Continental Congress had dreams of a land where free people could create a myriad of government programs that would someday allow foreigners to homestead on our land and live off of the efforts of American workers. Throughout our history, American soldiers have died fighting with just one cause in mind: full U.S. citizenship for any foreigner who demands it. The beaches of Normandy were stormed 63 years ago by Americans rallying to the spirit of La Raza, and our boys defeated the Nazis so every alien would feel free to come to America in order to enjoy a full battery of social program benefits.

So the xenophobes and racists need to cease the critique of our president and representatives. These politicians weren’t elected to promote the desires of the American people; they were elected to protect the rights of every person to share in the economic prosperity enjoyed by the legal citizens of our nation. We owe the world a living, and thankfully these bold men are forcing us to meet our obligation.

President Bush has an addiction.
He has an addiction to a drug that is sweeping the Nation.

And that drug is illegal aliens.

As We All know that someone's addiction affects more than just the abuser. It affects Everyone associated with them. It destroys Families and their Homes and leaves the abuser without any credibility because of the lies perpetrated in order to fulfill their wants.

Well, Our Home is in disarray and President Bush still refuses to admit his problem. It's time for an intervention of Epic proportions.

It is time for those of Us Who have supported him through these years to confront him and state that his problem shall no longer be overlooked and swept under the rug.

President Bush's insistence on carrying on with this charade is an abomination to the Rule of Law that he swore to uphold.

You have a problem President Bush and the first step is to admit it.

Screw Job
This is a screw job, plain and simple. This is a joke to the elected leaders of congress. Don't know if you heard someone ask McCain just the other day why they aren't building that wall they voted for? He responded with some smart aleck reply, which I couldn't understand, but the press just laughed.

Shamnesty is Congress saying, "How 'bout this? For our own enrichment, we spent this nation into bankruptcy, starting with the social security fund (snicker). Now we are so hopelessly lost that the only way to screw things up worse and, with some luck, obfuscate our role in the systematic destruction of our economic system, is to add eighty million poverty stricken Mexicans. Then, in the end, we can confess and tell angry Americans that we only did it to save the social security system because it needed more workers to support retirement. Sure, there's no chance the move would work, but we don't tell the suckers that. 'Sorry', we'll say. 'It was just an honest mistake, Mr. taxpayer. So, here, stick this where the sun don't shine. And while you're at it, stick that knife in deeper and twist it around. I've got a chauffeur, a mansion in a gated community, a ten million dollar campaign...er retirement fund, and a pension the likes of which none of you will ever see.' Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha."

By the way
These guys have been propping up Mexico ever since Clinton approved that overnight twenty billion "loan" to Mexico on the eve of some giant balloon payments due to major US banks. If Mexico had defaulted, major US banks would have been required to reclassify the loans and become technically insolvent.

What do you think will happen to any loans we've made to Mexico once these "New Americans" stop sending their earnings back to to that corrupt country? Yep, time for Uncle Sam to step in and loan Mexico some more money - which we'll never see.

The US government's entire approach to fiscal matters is bass ackward and is leading us into socialism.

Must Stop this insanity
If we cannot stop this amnesty bill we have obviously already lost our will to be a nation.

"comfortably numb"
When will Americans wake up? I get so frustrated sometimes I think we're just getting what we deserve!! Unfortunately even those who are following and fuming about the actions of our treasonous representatives are going to reap the "rewards" that the ignorant, "tolerant" and self proclaimed compassionate deserve.

If Americans don't start paying attention to what our politicians are doing to the Constitution and to this country, they will soon wake to find themselves in the minority as English speaking, taxpaying, law abiding inhabitants of this once great country.

In the last elections Democrats patted themselves on the back and gloated over their wins and Republican losses. They wronglfully claimed a mandate stating that their gains represented a shift in the mindset of this country. Then they threw hissy fits when President Bush refused to cut and run from Iraq, saying that he was ignoring the demands and will of the American people.

Funny, they don't seem too concerned about the will of the American people when it comes to legalizing law breaking illegals. Now we're nothing but a bunch of racists, hell bent on keeping the poor folks down and out!! Where did all the concern for the voting public go??


What I like best about the whole thing
is that Reid (D) declared scamnesty dead for this session and called on Pres Bush for help... AND GOT IT!

So many (R) can't get phone calls returned, but Bush almost IMMEDIATELY notified the press of his 'disappointment with the American people, and promises to pass it.'

Too bad he can't hear the screaming by the majority of the American people! He must just be TOWN(hall) deaf!

I love you Thomas Sowell and I'm not gay

I have read almost all your writtings. some how books have influance me. damn I am drunk, but not as drunk as the democartic party. I listen to their debat last night and wanted to puck! Vomite! I spell better when I am sober and when drunk I still think better then these phoneies.

Your Friend: Greg

I love Thomas too and I am not drunk
We killed it for now. But it will be back. It all makes sense if you know what the plan is. I hope you will check out these links. It is all going according to their plans.

http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/general/bush%27s_new_world_order_legacy_2007060365/ (read everything on this site because it explains the background of it all and how it all got started with Rockefeller)
http://www.vdare.com/misc/070416_sheehy.htm
http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2005/july05/05-07-13.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44841
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44965

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070430-4.html (for those who say I am delusional, this is from the whitehouse website. Is it in the constitution that we are supposed to advance a globalist agenda by economic integration with the EU? Bush is not only moving the NAU along but doing a lot towards eventual one world gov)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55923
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56014

All the top tier candidates are for this agenda. Rudy is in, McCain is endorsed by the Trilateral Commission. Romney is heir apparent to the Bush dynesty, and sorry Fred is a member of CFR. No member of CFR will ever enforce our borders and be for the interests of American citizens.

Tancredo and Duncan Hunter (my favorite!) are good candidates. If you want the opportunity to vote for someone who will actually work to preserve our national sovereignty, territorial integrity, and the welfare of AMERICAN citizens I suggest you make a lot of noise. Bush is so stupid, he actually thought he could cram this outrage down our throats. I guess that is reasonable since he has been getting away with murder. Slowly killing our country day by day by stealth.

Those quislings in Washington noticed our outrage. We need to keep it up and I say expose the big plan behind their disgusting actions!






I'm quite serious about this
Try to recall anyone who voted for this scam. It'd be nice to succeed, but just the attempt sends the message I want delivered: try this again and you may very well lose your cushy job.

amen, Mr. Sowell
and here's more of what I think -- since I can't seem to sleep these days anyway, so consumed and disgusted as I am with this whole immigration farce:

I strongly oppose this new immigration legislation.

CURRENT immigration law is not enforced. A slap on the wrist to employers hiring illegal immigrants substitutes for the penalties current law requires. Sanctuary laws circumvent deportation of known illegal aliens. The legislated fence is a joke, occupying a fraction of its 700-mile length, and its further construction is in jeopardy (and the original 700-mile length reduced) for lack of will/and or funds to complete it.

Can anyone seriously think that somehow, miraculously, an immigration bill sired by, OF ALL PEOPLE, Ted Kennedy, is going to be an improvement?

Well. Let me offer a little straight talk of my own. If this bill should pass, the only aspects of it that WILL be enforced are the ones most damaging to the wallets of ordinary Americans: chain migration and the subsequent massive increase in social service costs.

Thusly, this bill portends a descent into socialism. And I'm tired of hearing -- as Sen. Kyl likes to say (good man otherwise that he is), that this is the best we can do under a democratic-held congress.

This bill is designed to promote a permanent underclass, easily manipulated by an unholy alliance of self-serving business owners and political elites -- dismissive of the concerns of ordinary Americans. No, this is not the best we can do.

Moreover, its implementation will be negatively transformative of the American character as America would become increasingly populated by a people whose culture eschews civic virtue -- witness Mexico’s notoriously corrupt civic culture and U.S. crime statistics that support this conclusion. The very presence of illegal aliens belies their tractability!

I suggest the bill be ripped up. Fund and enforce laws on the books. Make incremental changes only with considered debate -- committee hearings and due diligence -- so that the American people have a seat at the table.

Do not try again to cram down our throats an indigestible slop such as this bill is.

Maybe then we'll trust you guys in DC again.

But I doubt it.

Thank you for allowing me to vent.




oops
DR. Sowell, not Mr.

The Big Question
Mr. Sowell writes:

"Last year, the sop to the American people was the promise of a fence on the border. This year, the big question is: "Where is the fence?""

Yeah, where is it? Oh, that's right there are 11 miles of it in 2 years according to Duncan Hunter.
So, it is plain for all to see that the government has no real intent of building that fence. The bill from 2 years ago was a fraud. Now, the pols want to perpetrate another fraud on the American people with this latest bill.

Well, the American people said NO, but our Mexican president Jorge Bush doesn't care what we Americans want.

Jam your pols offices with more faxes through numbersusa to fight this again. We need to let the pols know and Bush that we won't take this.

http://peppermintsplace.townhall.com
I have an article posted on my blog about this
"Americans Kill Bill". Come on over and add your comments.

passport office
Did you happen to notice they gave up trying to process passports of Americans with supporting documentation in English? They couldn't handle it.
But we are supposed to believe they can handle 12 million illegal aliens without documents, of 100 different countries in 100 different languages and that they will do it in 24 hours per person and protect our security too, just like they did when they sent Atta his documents 6 months after he was dead. Can I sell you a bridge to Alaska?

Where's the fence?

Why a comprehensive bill?

Bookshop Santa Cruz in Santa Cruz CA sells a
Bush count down watch for how long Bush will be in office. I am thinking of buying one, and I'm not a democrat.









I wonder
if we would have the good sense to recognize a politician that would actually DO something about this problem and then get behind him (her?).

For the life of me, I can't imagine what these bozos in Washington are thinking with this bill.

I suppose I can understand the Dems figuring on swelling the ranks, but the Republicans? WTF?

And I don't really buy into big business/cheap labor argument; if this scam ever happens, the new "legals" will then be entitled to minimum wages (another scam, BTW), health benefits, vacation pay, etc. Where's the upside there?

Long post, but no cut/paste
As always, a good job Dr. Sowell. Here it is; “Illegal Migration, scene three, Take 4”. I expect the same actors to play their parts as in the Ann Coulter column. We will have the typical liberals screaming racism or that new word that they have come up with since “racism” has been overworked to the point of being discredited, “nativism”. This is a relatively new term coined by the liberals with a meaning that is roughly equivalent to racism in most liberals minds.

Most liberals arguing for this bill are doing so strictly because the Democrat Party wants this bill to assure a continuing supply of voters for the future. Since the Democraps want this bill, they will be here in force to argue for the bill.

The last group of people arguing for uncontrolled border crossing are the ones like Forrest who base it on religious principles. We must show compassion for these poor immigrants and allow them in the US to work.

The only group not represented on TH that want this bill are the corporate bigwigs of a certain few industries that benefit from a continued supply of cheap labor. I would not expect them to be here because in doing so they are openly admitting that they are in violation of the current law.

What we have not seen from any of the posters, or from any of the politicians supporting this bill, is an answer to the concerns raised by the people who are opposed to this bill on the grounds that it can not be enforced as written. Examples include the 24 hour limit on “research” to determine suitability of giving them legality in residence. I am still waiting for the politicians to provide an answer to Senator Sessions’ 20 concerns. The only thing you get from the polls like Graham is “you conservatives don’t know what’s good for you, or you are all racists”.

To the charge of “racism”, my reply is that this argument is without merit and bankrupt. It shows that the person making the argument has nothing to offer and should be denied access to the discussion.

To the charge of “nativism”, my reply is that if you mean it in a way corresponding to “racism”, then it is the same reply as above. Your argument is bankrupt and has no validity. If you mean it in a way that says you hold your country dear to your heart and believe that it’s citizens should have precedence over foreigners when making decisions about the country and it’s makeup, then my answer is “ok, that is fine”. That is the way it has been in all countries since time immortal, it is normal.

To the politicians who would like uncontrolled immigration with the intent to acquire more voters, I have this to say; you are traitors to the United States and have violated your oath of office. It would be nice if the average citizen recognized this and voted you out of office, but I do not expect that to happen. What I have found is that Democrat supporters will support Democrats regardless of what they stand for. As in days of old, they would vote for a “yeller dog” as long as it had a (D) after it’s name.

To the Republicans supporting this bill I have this to say. Republican voters are not like Democrap voters. They will NOT vote for anyone as long as they have an (R) after their name. You saw a little of this in the 06 election but you chose to ignore it and blame it on the war in Iraq. Conservatives will do one of three things in the 08 elections with regard to RINOs and liberal Republicans. They will stay at home, they will vote for a third party candidate, or as a last resort some will vote for the Republican because the Dem is even more odious. The end result is that you Mr. Liberal Republican will lose your most precious commodity, your elected office.

And finally, to the posters like Forrest who believe that the borders should be open to all and the current laws should not be enforced for “humanitarian” reasons based on morality of their religion, I have these points to say.

As to the “humanitarian” reasons for opening the border, we can not support the entire world. To attempt to do so will only result in our own collapse and failure. It is the reality of the forces of socialism., for this is what that is. What we should be doing is encouraging true capitalism and removal of corruption in the Hispanic communities. In the long run this is the only thing that will relieve the suffering of these people. If we collapse the borders we will collapse our own nation and we will revert to socialism even more so than we currently are. After that we also will fail economically and become a poor nation of suffering bread lines.

As for the disobeying of current laws to allow uncontrolled border crossing I repeat that if we allow some of the population to decide what laws to obey we allow all to decide what laws to obey. At that point, we have no law. We have anarchy and chaos. Justice Lewis Powell said the following, "laws must be obeyed, for if each person were permitted to decide which laws were good and which were bad, social chaos would necessarily result.” This is the same position taken by Socrates when he argued against escaping from his prison before taking the hemlock prescribed as his death sentence.

As for disobeying the laws for religious reasons, my recollection of the bible is that nothing in the bible states that we should disobey laws regarding immigration or anything close to it. Jesus did advocate helping your fellow man, however, he did not advocate breaking the law to do so. There are so many different ways to help these people without breaking the law. Jesus said “render unto Cesar” and St. Paul also said that the laws should be obeyed. And on top of all of that, as I said earlier, morality based on religion really should have nothing to do with the law in the United States. To do otherwise is to invite the formation of our own “caliphate” here. We learned long ago the dangers of religion and the law and that is why it was incorporated in the first amendment.

Where's the fence?
Peppermint

You have the same idea I had -- contact the politicians with fax, email, etc. with one message:

Immigration -- Where's the fence?!

Makes a good chant at politcal events as well...

Once More
I wrote this comment for Buchanan's article but it applies here also.
Leadership
All the leaders are on the wrong side and they control the press and its propaganda machine. Bush, Kennedy, McCain and the MSM is a formidable alliance to beat Joe 6 pack and his pro American buddies who are essentially voiceless. We can place calls and write e-mails in between working for a living while the Rodents of the Republic gnaw away at our sovereignty on a 24 hour a day shift. Rodents always do their most damage while the workers and builders of this great nation are nestled in their pillows resting from a hard days work. Deals will be struck, spin will be rationalized, and the American citizen will awaken to a Mexican breakfast of 2 helping of over easy citizenship, with 3 strips of brazen amnesty . We need leadership and we need a voice--we need to rock Washington like it has never been rocked. Every Senator that votes to destroy our sovereignty must be treated as a leper. We need to make a solemn promise to work (all of us, regardless of state) to unseat the traitors and drive them back into their respective States in utter shame. They are not American; they have warmed their hands at the fire of greed and profit, and for that we must extract our pound of flesh.

Hey Greg
1:40 Tuesday morning! Get it together, man. We need you on the front line.

Bipartisan betrayal
When I was inducted into the US Army I took an oath to "protect and defend" the Constitution and the US from enemies, foreign and domestic. I think the president also does, and would HOPE that the members of congress--Senators and US Representatives would. Why are these people now ignoring this oath and instead deciding to allow anyone who wants to enter our country to do so-- legally or otherwise? Maybe it's time for all loyal Americans to read the pre-amble to the Declaration of Independence where it says that if the government fails to protect it's citizens the citizens have a right to throw off that government... next year at election time remember who sold our country out for a vote! Mr. President---and the members of congress... you work for US (that's the CITIZENS of the USA) not those of every country who envy our lifestyle and want to steal it... if they don't like the way things are in their countries---go home and change them, even by combat if necessary. WE had to fight for our independence and for our continuing freedom.

Sowell just raised the cost of the Bill
Normally I’m happy with Sowell. Today I’m mad. How could he write this today of all days? He knows full well Bush is going to the hill with his check book today to buy 10 or more votes. When Bush did the CAFTA vote buy it cost us $50M per vote.

But this is much bigger and involves more people, so I suspect it will cost $100M/vote and with just 10 votes that is $1B for more taxpayer pork. Sowell knowing this article will be read by some of our congress critters will only make them demand even more money for their vote. Shame on you!

Well Said:
With all the nations on the face of the earth, why is the United States of America the only country in which someone can be united with his family? Illegal immigrants can reunite with their families back where they came from.

I believe THAT is what most Americans (including me) think. Unfortunately, politicians don't think or act like most Americans.

Where is the Fence?
It is being built around GW's ranch, and you can bet it isn't virtual.

scam...
sham... We all know that any bill with Teddy Kennedy's name attached to it cannot be in the interest of any of us. How do they keep electing this man?! And they talk about the intelligence of republicans.

The article was right on and the comments posted here matched it.

It took six years...but George turned out to be really his Father's son. What a shame!

Dr. Sowell writes:
"Both political parties know what is going on and both parties choose to see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil. Neither wants to risk losing the Hispanic vote..."
Excellent statement as to what the pols really intend on doing.If they can't get the Hispanic vote through amnesty,they'll do nothing rather than risk taking a stand.




The nature of the beast
Mexico was conquered by the Spaniards. The Indians never had any education, the Spaniards were the land owners and ruling elite. The Mexicans were also conquered by the Roman Catholic church. The Roman Catholic Church, along with the ruling class made a fief of Mexico, Central and South America (essentially). As most subjugated peons would do, the Mexicans learned how to milk the government system. Nepotism, slacking at work, and generally engaging in "screwing the Spaniards" (ruling class) became ingrained over several centuries.
Just in case you may think that I'm throwing all Mexicans into the same kettle, I'd like to add that I pastored 70-100 Mexican migrant workers for six years. I've prayed for them, wept with them, and been their friend while struggling to speak Spanish well enough to actually communicate.
Many of them are better "Americans" than many Americans I know. However, watching the wearing down of the American People's better judgment by politicians makes me want to puke. Any bill that smacks of any amnesty and capitulation will embolden the worst of the aforementioned Mexican impulses. In the name of compromise and compassion, America is being asked to ignore poison in the food. How utterly sad.

Solution to Problem
Mexico, like Russia, has some of the richest deposits of mineral resources in the world (gold, copper, oil, silver, magnesium, bauxite, etc...); we import 25% of our oil from Mexico.

They can have California if they give us thier the northern half of thier nation (where most of the mineral deposits reside).

STEVENS
Senator Stevens in AK is subject to recall. It is a very small state and you might get enough petitions out of the major cities to put some real fear in him. He is very suspect on immigration.

Warrior - Right on!
Isn't it interesting? Our weasel politicians are blatantly ignoring the collective will of the American voter - in an effort to pick-up more voters! They never cease to insult our intelligence, and we the people always bite the bullet. What is the proverbial straw that will break the camel's back?

What I'm wondering...
Is why repubs/cons who oppose this bill take this thing so personally. I mean if you got your own job, home, car and family and are doing well,
exactly how does putting these people, who want the same thing, on a path to citzenship affect YOU so negatively, and make you react to THEM so harshly?

I have actually seen opponents of this bill suggest that snipers and land mines be put on the borders to stop illegal lpassage into the
U.S. I have seen suggestions that 12 million illegal immigrants be rounded up like cattle to
be deported.

What this amounts to is abject xenophobic hatred
of people that dont look like yourselves. admit it.

The arrogance of Congress
Contrary to popular belief and mythology, and recent comments by the Senate Majority Leader, Presidents have very little control over what legislation passes Congress. The media has created this fantasy with such lines as "the President's Budget, the President's bill, the Presidents (fill in the blank.) The scary thing under our form of government Congress, the House and Senate, hold most of the power with the Judiciary playing a close second.

So Congress has proposed another immigration bill that makes promises similar to those made in the mid-1980s. The problem is not the legislation then or now, it is the failure of government to act in the best interest of the American people. Why have we so long tolerated the Supreme Court's interpretation that any "person" within the United States has the same rights as a citizen? That is the ultimate folly in this illegal alien gain. It is the ultimate folly in our war on Islamic terrorists who make it into the USA to does us great harm.

Legalizing law breakers
Sorry, but one more thought. If we allow illegal Mexicans, Central Americans into our country and because they are here give them special rights towards citizenship what country's citizens to we stop from doing the same?

Left Angle
What THAT amounts to is abject xenophobic hatred
of people that don't think like yourself. admit it.

Keep contacting
your congressfolks!

When the furor has subdued, when the phone lines are quiet, when the e-mails have desisted, then this Dracula-clone bill will rise from the grave to suck the life out of the USA.

So keep up the pressure - like a vitamin - EVERY DAY!!

Those dwelling on Mount Olympus in the sanctified halls of the Senate have been wearing the purple too long.

They no longer see themselves as Americans or as representing the people who elected them or even as bound by their constitutional obligations.

Rather they see themselves as so superior to and so far above the 'nativist, racist, bigoted, stupid' unwashed masses that they are under no commitment to represent their interests. They instead are committed to represent those who literally 'pay the freight' - those corporations, chambers of commerce, and lobbyists who have bought them.

And so they smugly and arrogantly proceed along, confident that the voters have nowhere else to go. This 'scamnesty bill' is but the latest and clearest example of their contempt for the American citizenry.

They foolishly ignore Thomas Jefferson's view that there should be a revolution every 20 years.

The revolution is overdue, simmering and bubbling, and about to blow the cover off the pot.

It is 1775
The days of peace are nearly over. More often than not the very people we once supported for political office are turning against us. The byproduct of this is the erosion of faith in our form of government. Not because it isn't a good Constitution but because we've seen how it has been perverted and ignored without consequence.
This immigration bill is just a symptom of a much more dangerous malady; a fatal one at that.
Write, phone and fax if it gives you comfort. It's the opiate that makes you feel like you've done something worthwhile.
The pols are learning there isn't much downside to voting any which way they please. If they get thrown out of office there will be a lucrative private enterprise job, usually a lobbyist, waiting for them when they get out.
This "power of the people" junk we are being fed, even on Townhall is our opiate. Time to go cold turkey and admit the peaceful revolution we thought we had won the right to in 1776 and 1783 is now ended. It is 1775 again!

This should be required reading for
President Bush (for whom I twice voted) and every member of Congress. Thanks again, Dr. Sowell, for stating so succinctly the position held by the majority of US citizens.

Bush...
will be reintroducing the bill

LEFT ANGLE
You start out with a very good question. But to raise a couple of examples of extreme views and imply that those of us against this bill share those views examplifies why so little gets done through civilized debate these days. I can oppose this bill without demonizing Mexicans, and you should have the common decency to oppose my views without putting the words of extremists in my mouth. Grow up.

Sowell For President
Both of the major parties have been sadly off-course for many years, and on many more issues than immigration. It has been encouraging to read the wisdom of Dr. Sowell as he takes on the failures of the 536 WE have elected to go to Washington as OUR representatives to write legislation for the common good. It is past time to take back our nation.

Sowell for president!

Why
"Is why repubs/cons who oppose this bill take this thing so personally?"

It is because they don't want this country to go the path of Canada and Belgium, two countries continually on the brink of disunion because of linguistic differences.

It is because Bush "buddy raped" them on the very last subject they were prepared to defend them on, namely the War on Terror and border security.

It is because giving amnesty to 600,000 illegal immigrant felons is a wonderful way to spike crime rates and increase incarceration costs in an overstrained prison system.

It is because adding 12 million people who hate the U.S. and the freedom and capitalism that form its culture while at the same time whining for handouts and rent-seeking will destroy the social fabric of the country for generations.

That's why.

Left Angle
Left Angle, why don't you let a couple families of the illegals move into your basement. They'll let you know what time they want breakfast and also when to take their kids to school. Be sure to see if you can add them to your health care insurance so their needs will be taken care of.

Isn't it funny how these Lefties are incapable of argument unless they're calling all of us names.

When these fools start actually taking the illegals into their own homes and paying all their costs for them, then we can actually listen to their ridiculous words and consider whether to take them seriously or not.

Liberal Democrat....
...apparently has no clue as to our real history. Show me the signed name on either the Declaration of Indpependence or the original ratified Constitution of the United States that was anything but:

1. white
2. male
3. formerly British citizen
4. under British rule/law
5. native to well established British colonies
6. risked EVERYTHING including his very LIFE to establish this nation in the first place
7. to escape tyranny and oppression for their own people
8. last but certainly not least, EARNED HIS RIGHT TO BE CALLED AMERICAN!

Show me in the Declaration of Independence any reference to any other country other than Great Brittain.

Never was it the intent of the colonials to provide for the welfare of other countries. It was always their intent to provide for themselves. PERIOD!

Yes, there were other colonies: French, Spanish, Dutch, etc. However, NONE of them had anything to do with the building of this country. ALL original thirteen colonies were originally BRITISH!

Liberal Democrat, you not only are highly naive of our own history, you have a very dangerous mindset. NO COUNTRY ON THIS EARTH has or ever has had the power to accomodate ALL of humanity. To attempt to do so is to endanger your own. GROW UP, LITTLE ONE! And read a freakin' history book (not a lefty looney one, either-they don't give a damn about this country as you have demonstrated you don't care either).

and ROCKER
Please! You giving economics lessons to Dr. Sowell? He wrote the book.

Left Angle
You are just another liberal dip.

If I didn't like someone because they looked different than me, or thought different than me, I would not like modt of my faamily,and friends, and neighbors. Everyone in this country is different. Right up the road from me are some people from Tiawan. I think they are great. My grandson is married to a Mexican.

But these illegals are I-L-L-E-G-A=L!! They broke into our country to plunder our resourses. They have no respect for our country or it's laws. They are going to ruin our economy.There is a huge difference in coming here legally, and working to be an American, not breaking in and stealing everything they can, and killing our citizens. Big difference,

oh, one more thing....
you and your partners in crime (aka amnesty supporters) keep bringing up race by calling real Americans xenophobes. Illegals come from 57 countries worldwide. I'd hardly call that being racist. Seems to me YOU are AMERICAPHOBE! This is NOT a racist issue, it isn't even a party issue-IT IS AN AMERICAN ISSUE AS IT AFFECTS ALL AMERICANS (whether or not some believe that is irrelevant). It is a matter of our sovereignty and our RIGHT TO SURVIVE AS OUR FOUNDING FATHERS ENVISIONED! And if you wonder what that vision was, just read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

To Loribme
You instructed LD to "read a freakin' history book (not a lefty looney one)". LOL, I wasn't aware that you could find a history book that wasn't "lefty-looney" unless it was over 100 years old. And BTW, LD is supposed to be sarcastic humour directed at the liberals and not to be taken serious by conservatives.

Loribme
I so agree with you. I myself am of such a mixture, that I sometimes can't figure out whether to do and Irish jig, or an Indian rain dance.

My ancestors came here from all over Europe, and some were here waiting for them.

This whole racist thing is so stupid I can't believe it. All anyone know how to do anymore is to play the race card. No matter what the problem, play the race card. I'm sick sick sick of hearing the same old argument.

Because they have no logical argument,they call names.If the law, or even our Constitution, or Declaration of Independence, doesn't back them up, then call names. The best they can do.

Rocker
I'm not certain what you were trying to express but before you discuss economics, you should learn to spell 'business' correctly.

BG writes: "Senator Stevens in AK is...
....subject to recall."
==================================================

I may be wrong, but I'm still pretty sure that no Senator or Congressman is recallable. In fact, I'm almost positive that only the respective legislative bodies themselves can remove a member (regardless of what the other body or the people may say or want).

Please, someone correct me if I'm mistaken; or, let's get it straight that we, as an elective population of the United States of America have NO CONTROL over our elected officials once they are elected (at least until the NEXT election when our collective short memories forget why it had been desirous that they were to removed).
TBC :>)

Why Dr. Sowell
you, sir, are nothing more than an ignorant racist white supremacist cracker incapable of writing in more than one syllable. I should know, I've been called the same.

Everyone knows in order for the GOP to survive we must attract people who don't subscribe to our values. If we must change those values in order to attract more voters then so be it. The important thing is that our governing majority have an (R) behind it. Not the direction our country goes.

It's much like being a Catholic. More people would become Catholic if it weren't for that Pope guy. It's about time they dump that whole Jesus thing and go with Muhammad as their prophet and embrace that whole convert or get head-lopped thing. Look at all the Muslims we could attract to our faith if we just change what we have faith in. As heads roll, collections go up and up and up.

Comprehensive Immigration
How about these two elements as the two fundamental legs:
. Border Security
. Demand that Mexico get its own economic house in order.

The problems with Mexicans are within their own country, They are run by an elitist and very rich element who continue to prevail through the tool of internal corruption. The elitists control money and all the positions of power and they like it that way. As long as the underemployed and undereducated can escape to the USA and send money back to support families, the elitists will not have to worry about keeping them fed.

Mexico is blessed with an abundance of natural resources and natural beauty. Its people, excluding the elitists, are also a wonderful natural resource who can be led to build the economy of Mexico.

Kilroy
Shows how much you know. Dr. Sowell is a blackman.

Like the rest of your horse manure statement, you do not know what you are talking about!!

Rocker
Dr. Sowell is an expert on economics. You have picked the wrong horse to ride in this argument.

You guys never cease to amaze me.

rocker
how am I going to move my lawn to Mexico?

nanna -- try reading before spouting off. You do "our" side a disservice.

"It allows Congress to be on both
sides of the issue, which is where most politicians want to be on most issues."

Complete turnover is what it's going to take. The character advocating violent revolution sounds like an FBI plant. I understand they used to do that among lefty organizations in the sixties to flush out dangerous nuts.

Loribme: google the word "satire."

Again, Dr. Sowell hits the mark
The problem with this "blanket amnesty" chimera is that there is no way that the government can properly screen even those who might wish to go through the protocol proposed for legalization. And this would surely be a minority of these immigrants. You're talking about a government that was completely overwhelmed by a rise in passport requests - a rise that they KNEW would happen and when it would occur. Instead of preparing for the onslaught due to a change in laws, they sat on their hands and, when the million new requests/month started flowing in, they were befuddled. And, now, 6 months later, they are saying they "might have to change the law." Such is active state government at its worst.

And this is the bureaucracy that proposes to screen 20 million people in a timely fashion to make sure they are not criminals or terrorists? This - fully aside from the point that this country cannot afford such a mass influx in this economic climate - should certainly give pause.

Once again, Dr. Sowell, well done!

Cheers,

Ron Albright

http://www.ronalbright.com

Another super column!
And the following is what I just sent off to Kay Bailey Hutchison, a US Senator from Texas (don't think John Cornyn needs one).........

Please, don't cave to the pressure. Remember these things:

Teddy and Dubya's terrible bill SHOULD be called: The American Sovereignty Forfeiture Act.

They're not called “illegals” for nothing.

Referring to an illegal alien as an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a bank robbery an “unauthorized withdrawal.”

98% of those illegal immigrants arrested on the Texas-Mexican border were not prosecuted for illegal entry between 10/1/2000 & 9/30/05 (The Facts 4/7/007).

Rather than the pending Piece-of-Crap (pardon me, but that's what it is), simply ENFORCE THE EXISTING LAWS - period.

Neither my wife, Dr. Dorothy M. (last name), nor I will ever vote for someone who cares more about illegals in this country that they do American citizens.

Again, Senator, the Simpson-Mazzoli act of '86 should have been enforced years ago (when the illegals were only about 3-million)!

Don't pass this new thing -- it's an abortion.

Don't Punish American Business
Think what will happen if the Feds do start cracking down on those who hire illegals but don't secure the border. All the illegals will then have to go on welfare.

The only practical solution is to build the fence and reduce the flood to a trickle,then ignore the ones here unless they cause a problem. They would still be illegal so if they engaged in any criminal behaviour they should be tossed back over the wall and face serious prison time if ever caught in the U.S. again.

AFTER we do this we can think about a program to allow those here to register and start on the road to citizenship.

You guys are all mistaken!!

Our esteemed leaders know best.

They understand that first and foremost, they must consider the well-being of poor Hispanics before they consider the well-being of Americans. It is obviously our moral imperative to pay for healthcare, schools, lawyers, foodstamps, welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, and many others programs that these undocumented Americans need.

They understand that the desires of American business for cheap labor trump the American workers desire for a fair wage. It's supply and demand. If you want to lower wages, flood the market with cheap labor.

They understand that American workers are satisfied with their lot. Just give the American a football game to watch and a beer to drink and they will be happy, even when their shrinking salary has to bankroll the illegal behavior of the undocumented Americans from Mexico.

Truthfully, liberal and conservative Americans alike should be furious at this garbage, and from what I gather, most Americans are furious. These politicians simply don't care. They will not have to live with the consequences. If they lived more like the common man, they too would be furious.

The bottom line is that when they consider this bill, it does NOTHING to help the American worker. It does very little to help America.


I also worry about the powder keg that is building. Even though they are trying to avoid this, they are legalizing TWO AMERICAS, and that arrangement will NOT work.

The border fence and Dr.Sowell
I don't have any major ojection to a border fence, but I don't believe that is the best way to stop illegals from entering.

Since this article is by Dr. Thomas Sowell it is appropriate to discuss his preferred method of reversing illegal immigration, and that is with policy.

If we deny these illegals the benefits of our society there will be no incentive for them to come, and there will be incentive for illegals who are already here to leave.

We keep hearing about how it's impossible to find 12-15 million illegals and send tham back to their countries of origin, but this excuse ignores the method they used to get here in the first place; self motivation.

Because of the weak-kneed, corrupt, PC attitude of our pols in DC and throughout numerous cities and states, the word is out that the US will not enforce its immigration laws. The word is out that instead, the US will encourage, condone, enable, and support violation of its laws by rewarding the violators with free health care, welfare payments, free education, and exemption from all of the ordinary rigors of society that citizens must comply with, such as paying taxes and being licensed to operate a motor vehicle (how do you revoke the license of an illegal who has no license?).

As Sowell pointed out several weeks ago, the best way to deport illegals is to deny them jobs, deny them free health care, deny them welfare, and lock them up when they violate ours laws by driving without a license. In fact, we should lock them upanytime we encounter one that is hereillegally just for violating our border.

The same people who are telling us they can't "find" 12 million illegals and deport them refuse to even take the ones they do find into custody.

When we stop rewarding these lawbreakers with social benefits and start deporting the ones we do catch two things will happen. The word will get out that the free lunch in the US for illegals is over, and they will stop coming, and many (most?) of the ones who are already here will leave on their own.

And if we need more labor, skilled or unskilled, all we have to do is increase the quotas of how many immigrants we will accept LEGALLY, and reward those who respect our laws and customs by applying for legal entry and naturalized citizenship.

And the best thing about this approach is we don't need any new legislation to do it. This can be done simply by enforcing the laws that are already on the books.

So the next time some group of political hacks in Washington DC tries to tell you they want to make a deal, enforcement in return for amnesty, understand that this no deal. THEY ALREADY OWE US ENFORCEMENT. Tell them you want a different deal. Tell them you'll let them keep their jobs only if they actually start doing the job they should have been doing all along.

Warrior, Grumpy, USA Eagle, & all,
You guys are correct in all respects, but the idea that we can remove a Senator with some recall vote isn't going to happen, and it will not fix the main problem. The fact that both parties totally ignore us, as Dr. Sowell said, is what I have been saying on this site for a while now.

There is only one solution to the mess and only one way to get a message sent to these elites. That is to DENY THEM THE THING THEY WANT MOST, THE PRESIDENCY!!

I urge you to visit my website JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG. On my site I clearly explain how the two parties have manipulated the election process to assure themselves continued power. In that atmosphere, sustained by a complicit MSM, they have no fear of being held accountable to the actual owners of this great nation, we the American people.

Our only hope to reclaim the inheritance we were given is to not elect another elite, Dem or GOP, to the Presidency. If anyone has a better solution, I'm waiting to hear it. Unless and until we send this message, loud and clear, we will consign the country and our children to more of the same big government, less personal freedom, and greater influence of the internationalist cabal that hates America.

More of the same will never produce a different result! How long is it going to be before we figure that out? For those on this site who are still looking to the Republican party to save the day, I can only ask, What are you thinking? Neither party can or will change its stripes, and even the new darling of the GOP elite, Fred Thompson, is no different.

This is the election and now is the time to make ourselves truly heard. Let's take away the Presidency from them all. Imagine the shock throughout the political world, here and abroad, when everyone watches the election returns and sees the Dems & GOP out of power. It will definitely be the beginning of the re-establishment of the birthright which has been stolen from us and will put a big fat NO to those elites who are pushing the New World Order.

Please, visit my site and see the possibilities, gain hope and encouragement from the fact that we do have a choice and we can stop the elites from any further sell out of our nation. It is a guarantee that we can break their hold on power and restore the Constitution, rule of law, and will of the people as the principles by which we govern ourselves as a free people. Check it out, send me your comments, but let's stop believing the Dem/GOP propaganda and reject the myth that only they can rule, only they are smart enough, wise enough. Check it out, you won't be disappointed. Thanks, Joe

Immigration Bill
Immigration Bill, 3 sentences. Starting June 30th, all employers and individuals found to be employing illegal immigrants will be fined $10,000 per day/per occurrence. Starting July 1st, the Federal Government will be providing free buses to five locations along the Mexican border, until school schedules negate our ability to continue in the Fall. We will be providing the opportunity to register for worker permits, providing verifiable documentation of identity is provided at these 5 sites, along with willingness to submit to a retinal scan. Permit to be issued upon verification of said documents only, not at sight, along with the completion of a background check.

To algib
"Illegals" can not get welfare. Their children, if born in the US, are now considered citizens and are elligible for foodstamps and other programs for childrern. This is why the anchor baby program is so popular.

Immigration
When I consider what this bill is and what it will do to the country, I can only wonder how our leaders can be so damn stupid and irresponsible to the rest of us. It reminds me of the saying "Whom the gods would destroy they first make mad." Apparently the gods start at the top, with the illuminati, the elite, the intellectuals.

Most of us do understand what our leaders are thinking of. The Democrats want to finish off the Republican Party by getting more and more people in this country who will vote only their perceived well-being and "rights" - Democratic. The Republicans want cheap labor and greed trumps common sense and decency and love of country.

We need to keep screaming. With "One Way, My Way" Bush, some Democrats, some Republicans, the news media, and Hollywood (plus La Raza, et al. organizations)pushing for the bill, the citizens who pay taxes, build and maintain this country are going to have a tough time stopping this scam. If we don't stop it, our country is doomed.

As far as being convinced this bill is "good for us" there's no way I'll buy that. (Exception: if God Almighty were to stand on a stack of Bibles the size of the universe and swear this is what should be done, I might reconsider.)

We need to tell them to stick this bill "where the sun don't shine" at the speed of light, if I may mix my metaphors. And keep telling them.

The Founders on Government
This is what it our founder’s said, in case you’ve forgotten- “Whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light or transient causes: and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

Where's the Democracy
opposed to this bill. Bush wants to force it on us a anyway and he is now going to use our tax dollars to buy the politicians that are blocking it. Is this democracy? Is this what our men in uniform are fighting for. Are they behind a government that instead of representing the people is forcing them to pay for their own destruction. Did they sign up for the armed forces to defend this country or participate in dismantling it?

Let's all face it, we do not have a democracy, we have a corrupt oligarchy that is working ever harder to make sure we have NO voice in government and NO freedoms. Not only are they trying to destroy this country's sovereignty buerve America or destroy it?

The American people are against this bill because they have the common sense to see that it is the end of this country. It is the end of everything that makes this country what it is. The
rank and file of the armed forces must act. The politicians think they can get away with sellit also silence all voices of opposition by destroying talk radio with the equal time laws. Let's face it, things are headed in one direction and unless we turn them around there will be no America and there will be no freedom and down the road there probably won't be any American people.Let's face it, the government is too corrupt to turn around with "elections" and "political parties". Let's face it, those who tell us to have faith in these things are analogous to the hijackers on 9/11 who told the passengers to not resist, to stay in their seats and everyone would be OK. Let's face it, those passengers are far from OK and we will be far from OK unless the rank and file of the military stand up and stop this train wreck of a government.

So just what are you men in the military being loyal to? Do you believe in the eradication of the united states? Do you believe in the eradication of freedoms? Do you believe in the eradication through redefinition of the American people. Do you believe anyone in the world who moves here is an American? Do you believe that allowing millions of foreigners who cling to their own culture and language , who are extremely hostile to you and your ethnic group is protecting you and your children's future? Do you doubt that when mexican soccer fans chant "Osama, Osama, Osama" during a match with a US team that they are anything but hostile? Do you believe that it is racist to pay attention to such things or do you believe it is common sense? Do you believe that people who have rallies in the streets of our cities and wave the mexican flag around are going to want to preserve America or destroy it?

The politicians think they can sell us out because they see no higher authority to stop them. But there is a higher authority and they need to be reminded of that, that higher authority has and always will be the American people. That is the very thing this bill is designed to change.
This bill amounts to nothing less than treason. It is time for the men in the military to act. They must recognize that while they are told that they are fighting to preserve this country those in charge do not believe in preserving it. They need to arrest and execute the criminals so we can get men in there who believe in preserving this country the way that they do.

AMERICAN DREAM - NO TAXES!!!
NOT TO PAY TAXES FOR 5 OR MORE YEARS, JUST $5K FINE - ONLY ILLEGALS/CRIMINALS, NOT AMERICAN CITIZENS.
LIBERALS KNOWING IT, MUST LIKE THAT:
95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.
75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.


correction
The first sentence was somehow deleted. Upwards of 80% of the American people adamantly oppose this bill yet the government wants to force it on us anyway. This is not democracy, this is Oligarchy. This is not in any way American.

Where's the democracry-re-edited
Apparently, I made a few more errors, hopefully this will be better

Upwards of 80% of the American people are adamantly and vehemently opposed to this bill. Bush wants to force it on us a anyway and he is now going to use our tax dollars to buy the politicians that are blocking it. Is this democracy? Is this what our men in uniform are fighting for. Are they behind a government that instead of representing the people is forcing them to pay for their own destruction. Did they sign up for the armed forces to defend this country or participate in dismantling it?

Let's all face it, we do not have a democracy, we have a corrupt oligarchy that is working ever harder to make sure we have NO voice in government and NO freedoms. Not only are they trying to destroy this country's sovereignty but they are also trying to silence all opposition by reviving the fairness doctrine. Do the men in the armed forces believe in dismantling this county and obliterating it’s freedoms? Is that what they are fighting for? Are they fighting for a “north American union “ where America disappears? The American people are against this bill because they have the common sense to see that it is the end of this country. We believe deeply in this county, we hold it very dear. The politicians don’t, they want to destroy it.

The rank and file of the armed forces must act. Let's face it, things are headed in one direction and unless we turn them around there will be no America and there will be no freedom and down the road there probably won't be any American people.Let's face it, the government is too corrupt to turn around with "elections" and "political parties". Let's face it, those who tell us to have faith in these things are analogous to the hijackers on 9/11 who told the passengers to not resist, to stay in their seats and everyone would be OK. Let's face it, those passengers are far from OK and we will be far from OK unless the rank and file of the military stand up and stop this train wreck of a government. Let’s face it, America will end if this bill or anything like it is passed. It is time to act.

So just what are you men in the military being loyal to? Do you believe in the eradication of the united states? Do you believe in the eradication of freedoms? Do you believe in the eradication through redefinition of the American people. Do you believe anyone in the world who moves here is an American? Do you believe that by allowing millions of foreigners who cling to their own culture and language , who are extremely hostile to you and your ethnic group you are protecting you and your children's future? Do you doubt that when mexican soccer fans chant "Osama, Osama, Osama" during a match with a US team that they are anything but hostile? Do you believe that it is racist to pay attention to such things or do you believe it is common sense? Do you believe that people who have rallies in the streets of our cities and wave the mexican flag around are going to want to preserve America or destroy it?

The politicians think they can sell us out because they see no higher authority to stop them. But there is a higher authority and they need to be reminded of that, that higher authority has and always will be the American people. That is the very thing this bill is designed to change.
This bill amounts to nothing less than treason. It is time for the men in the military to act. They must recognize that while they are told that they are fighting to preserve this country those in charge do not believe in preserving it. They need to arrest and execute the criminals so we can get men in there who believe in preserving this country the way that they do.

My "house" analogy
Imagine the US as your house, and someone walks in the front door without knocking, brings his whole family in, sets up their own living arrangements in your den, steals the food from your refrigerator, invites all their friends to join them, and demands that you add them to the deed as part owners.

It think THAT captures the reality of the situation.

Ah-nuld gets it!
In a statement Wednesday 6/6 supporting Bush and scamnesty, Schwarzenneger made the amazingly hilarious observation that “We don’t have enough workers in Silicon Valley”.

There you have it, folks, straight from the Governator. Illegal aliens; writing the programs Americans won’t write!

I’m not making this up.

Rocker, get a clue...
All the jobs won't be outsourced to India, or some other Country, unless you can prove to me that my next house will be built in India, and shipped across the ocean in whole to my lot in Texas. Of course, the concrete for the foundation will have to be poured in India too, but my only problem is how do they dig a hole in my yard all the way from India?


Perfect summary
I quote from Mr Sowell:

'The net result has been empty promises about controlling the border, paired with various schemes to legalize the illegal immigrants, and washed down with fraudulent statements that insult our intelligence.'.

And:

'Last year, the sop to the American people was the promise of a fence on the border. This year, the big question is: "Where is the fence?"'

A perfect summary. This summarizes the situation so well. Its George Bush' job to build the fence. And George Bush has no intention of implementing the security, punitive and control aspects of the new bill. And I detest his arrogant remarks about opposers of the bill not wanting what is best for the country.

Its patently clear George Bush doesn't want what is best for the country.

legalizing rape
Today, our President addressed Republican senators at a weekly luncheon:


Respected Senators and friends,

America has a serious problem, and I stand before you today asking for your help to fix this terrible problem.

Each day in America, thousands of women are raped. Although these rapes cause great damage to the women and their families, although these rapes cost the American taxpayers billions in hospital and legal bills, we must remember the real victims...the rapists.

Most of these rapists are hard working people. Some of these rapists were sexually abused themselves. Some were reared in violent households. For these reasons, we must treat these rapists with decency and respect.

In the spirit of decency, I ask you to support the Kennedy-McCain Comprehensive Rape reform bill. This bill would bring millions of rapists out of the shadows to get right with the law, unburdening our overworked legal system.

Right wing talk show hosts would have you believe that this is amnesty. It is NOT amnesty. These rapists would have to admit their crime and pay a $1000 fine. Does this sound like amnesty to you?

In return for their coming out of the shadows, we will give them access to lawyers, healthcare, foodstamps, and Medicare, and other programs to help them adjust to life in America as a rapist.

Opponents believe that the bill will encourgage others to commit rape which is flat out wrong. We will prosecute future rapists to the fullest extent of the law. Trust me this time!

I know that your constituents have been are impassioned by this debate. I know that they argue that the victims of the rape are actually PAYING for the rapists to continue to live freely amongst us. I tell you that they will soon become dispirited and give up their fight.

And if they don't, well, screw them!!! They shouldn't fight back on this. They should sit by meekly as we thrust our huge comprehensive plan into their pusillanimous little throats.

Ha! I made a funny. Heh-heh!! Screw 'em on the rape bill. Shhhhh....


March for America Events June 14, 15, 16

March for America June 14, 15, 16 Washington D.C. and state capitols across the country. Be there or be without a country.

http://www.lframerica.com/march2.html

Things are worse than you think
In the 1950s there was a successful Bracero program. My grandfather's farm in the Rio Grande valley was able to hire legal laborors from Mexico. They worked very well and were able to return to their families in Mexico. No sneaking. Little illegal immigration.

JFK sold out to the labor unions and changed the Bracero program. Caesar Chavez drove the nail into the coffin. Since then the system has been broken. No one wants to fix it. Liberals cried over human rights abuses, and there may have been some, but my Grandfather's workers were paid well and in full, as were those in farms around there.

Now Mexico is more corrupt than ever before. No economy can succeed without property rights and the rule of law. Oil is vital to Mexico's welfare system. Instead of infrastructure and justice, the Mexican government has wasted oil revenues on socialistic programs.

Worse, Mexican oil production is declining. The wells are running dry. Mexican economy will go from bad to worse.

http://www.energybulletin.net/13855.html
the trend continues:
http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=40538

We need the Bracero program back and we need the wall. Farmers need good workers, and Americans need secure borders. We need to prepare for an even greater invasion of desperate, hungery workers willing to take good American jobs for half the wage. There must be some way of importing those whom we need, not receiving those whom we do not need or want.

Things are worse than you think.
DocJ

Mark K
Have you seen the size of some of the backhoes they're making in Japan right now?

rocker
They say that ignorance is bliss. If that is true, they you sir, must be a very happy man.

Look, I think that most of us "far-right nut jobs" and "bigots" would agree that there are millions of illegals who work very hard at low paying jobs.

We appreciate the fact that millions are hardworking people who simply want a better life.

We DON'T appreciate the elevated crime levels. We don't appreciate the gang grafitti and gang violence. We don't appreciate overcrowded hospitals. We don't appreciate that many hospitals have closed due to illegal immigration. We don't appreciate the increased DUI accidents and deaths. We don't appreciate the overcrowded schools. We don't appreciate the added burden on ALL social programs like free and reduced lunches, Medicare, Social Security, and MANY others.

We don't appreciate lower wages for Americans due to an overabundant supply of cheap and illegal labor from Mexico.

This is the trade-off, and MOST Americans do not like it.

In your world, you would allow ALL people from South America and Africa and China and Europe to come to America. Unfortunately, your ignorance doesn't allow you to see that having such unchecked immigration would leave America in the same shape as the countries that these immigrants wish to leave.

vic
7:13 post Excellent

Rocker, that's a riot, your analogy
No, your analogy adjusted for reality, as seen here in LA over the last 30 years:

Imagine a city that is clean, functions well, and has a budget in the black and healthy infrastructure including schools and healthcare. Unwanted invaders take root in large numbers, spraying graffiti all over the place, forming large gangs of roving thugs, committing crimes that tax the police and court systems, flee across the border when necessary to avoid prosecution, cause complete collapse of the healthcare system by overburdening it without paying a dime toward its costs, flood the schools with illiterate kids who don't speak English destroying the educational system, drive without insurance, and increase costs to the point where the city and country have to raise taxes to try to stop the flow of red ink.

THAT, bud, is real life.

I thought the point is clear...

Actually there were several things that my last post tried to convey:

1) You don't stop a crime by legalizing it. Our leaders know we are overrun with illegal aliens and their solution is to magically make what was illegal legal. Gee, that will really solve the problem.

2) Americans are being screwed. Illegal aliens are breaking the law, but Americans are the ones who are paying (literally) the consequences for their crime.

3) Despite the obvious and predictable revulsion of the American people, the elite politicians don't care. In their ivory towers, they don't have to live with the problems that their legislation will create. Oh, they hear us fine, but they think they are smarter than us.


What all of the
proponents who scream "jobs Americans will not do" miss is the fact that Americans did, in fact, do these jobs in the past before the Mexican illegals came in and agreed to do them for 1/10th the wages. It is just as Ddr, Sowell said, you are leaving out the "pay" portion of this.

In the 33 years I've been here
LA has gone from a beautiful world class city to being, in East LA and the San Fernando Valley, a third-world s**thole.

I've LIVED in third-world s**tholes that were better cities than LA now is.


To Virginia Patriot
Thanks

Huh??

Hmm...your right...all of my worldly success is due to...um...illegal aliens.

Thank you Mexico. If you hadn't sent millions of the poor to the US, Pointguard would be poor himself.

As for the Iraqi comment, you are absolutely right. They don't like bombs going off...but I have a secret for you. (I'll whisper it hear for you: America isn't the one bombing innocent people in Iraq. That's why most Iraqis plead with American soldiers NOT to leave. They are scared about the future with Islamic fanatics controlling Iraq.)


Just curious
How many of you people that are enraged by President Bush's actions on immigration voted for him in 2000 and 2004?

Any regrets? Any questions about your own judgment?

laughs at point guard
elevated crime levels, what a joke

ask a cop what group is causing the crime 99% of the time he gets a distress call

its so shameful the way townhall attemtps to create these false perceptions.

The immigrants that some want to deport, work the hardest, provide the most service,and reap the least benfits of anyone in America

God cannot be pleased with this continuous shameful display of misinformation at townhall

point guard
the city of Las Vegas literally had to shut down in fear during the NBA all star game

tubbs
I voted for Bush twice, although I am not "enraged" by his actions on immigration. The reason I'm not enraged at Bush is that he has always advocated a "guest worker" program. He has always favored an immigration policy that I considered to be at least in part, amnesty. So I knew this position was part of the package with Bush.

Immigration was not a consideration in 2000 or 2004 because there was a strong, conservative majority in the House that has been the strength of the conservative GOP since 1995.

And this was verified by the House GOP's ability to stifle amnesty in 2006.

It has only been the reversal of control of the House to the Democrats that has made this issue relevant today and, not coincidentally, with the Dems in control we get a bill that only 26% of the people support.

To rocker
You obviously fall in the category of Democrat supporting the bill because the Democrats want it. This has nothing to do with Iraq. And BTW, bombs were going off in Iraq long before the US got there, they were chemical in nature and killed thousands.

To Forrest:

You should go back and read my 7:13 post. I had some stuff there for you.

A real immigration program.
An 8 step program.

1. Increase the penalties for hiring illegals with guaranteed jail time for knowingly hiring an illegal. Time to be served by the company CEO.

2. Seal the border using what ever means is determined to be the most economical.

3. Require the “national ID program” that was formulated out of the 911 Commission report to go into effect using IDs that can not be easily counterfeited. Make counterfeiting IDs a Federal felony punishable by the same punishment as counterfeiting money.

4. Eliminate "anchor babies" and family preferences for legal immigration.

5. Create a "guest worker" program that incorporates the following:
- Adequate research to verify personnel are not criminals or terrorists.
- Issuance of a "guest worker ID" that meets or exceeds the requirements of 3 above.
- Assures pay that meets the "prevailing standard" for the job as used by the government under the Davis-Bacon act.
- Eliminates use of ALL public resources other than emergency health care. The resources needed by the workers to be negotiated with employers by contract.

6. Revise the citizenship/immigration law to assure a balanced number of people from all countries that does not overly favor one ethnic group. Make skills a priority for immigration rather than family or "asylum".

7. Make it a Federal felony to provide hiding and assistance to illegals.

8. Make it a Federal felony to NOT enforce the law, for both local and federal officials, including politicians. Make it an impeachable offense for the President or Federal court officials to knowingly flout the law.

wiseone
good job wiseone, I voted for Bush twice too, and if he could somehow run again like FDR then I would vote for him again. He's awesome and he has my complete confidence respect and trust unlike say townhall and Dr Thoams Sowell, who have demonstrated a severe lack of integrity in my estimation.

still waiting on Sowell to write an article about a Latin American he admires, c mon SOwell, I know you have it in you, I can feel it

Bush
Was just on Fox news, he was on his way out of the luncheon. He said that with out this bill, It would be harder to enforce the law on the border. Can you believe that??

What in the world does an immigration law have to do with enforcing the law.? Nothing. He really is saying "I won't try to enforce the law if you don't sign this bill."

let me get this straight...

According to Forrest, we should accept illegal immigration (and all of its problems) because we have problem (perhaps a bigger problem) within our own population (in this case, he is referring to the crime in our black communities).

Brilliant!! I agree that the way that you improve crime and poverty in a country is to import 10-15 poor people from another country!!


By the way, I KNOW we have other problems in America.

Most problems are caused by poverty...which is a tough problem. How do you get poor people to stop doing the things that make them poor???? Oh, I know. Give them welfare so they are dependent on the government. Then lower standards at schools (you know, to make it fair for everyone because minorities can't make it without lowering standards).

All of this will really help poor people. Ha!

Okay, now I am rambling. Back to the point. There IS a problem with elevated crime where there illegals are settling. That isn't because the illegals are Hispanic. It is because they are POOR!!!! You are truly naive if you can't see that crime is elevated.


To rocker
I haven't seen any "hatred" by posters on this site. TH is pretty quick to get rid of such as that when it is found. The poster and all their works are removed and banned.

Accusations of "hatred" are just another way of saying "racism". That is the last resort of a bankrupt arguement. Please see my 07:13 post.

forrest is shameful
forrest writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 1:34 PM
laughs at point guard
elevated crime levels, what a joke

ask a cop what group is causing the crime 99% of the time he gets a distress call

its so shameful the way townhall attemtps to create these false perceptions.

The immigrants that some want to deport, work the hardest, provide the most service,and reap the least benfits of anyone in America

God cannot be pleased with this continuous shameful display of misinformation at townhall
-------------------------
It's shameful that you use God to justify criminal identity theft, slavery and trafficking of women, the largest influx of narcotics any nation anywhere has ever faced, and the desire of the nation's wealthy to continue to garner wealth through the degradation of the middle class. Somehow I see your foundation in any perspective of God as circumspect.

correlation between crime and poverty
I dont dispute that.

however controling for poverty it is still signifigantly more severe in groups other than Hispanic, rendering the entire premise of a crime problem due to illegal immigration as ridiculous

MSM says
MSM says "Bush has to get the bill passed or he will be a lame duck". Someone else responded "if he needs a victory, let him build the fence in a record amount of time and the people will be cheering him." But nooooooo, not Bush. When in a hole, he keeps digging.

Did you see where National Guardsmen were being paid to escort illegals across the border and they were trying to sign up more of their group to do the same?




What we could do...
As Dr. Sowell points out, the attempt to be "comprehensive" is a pitfall. C. Krauthammer has said the same.
Methinks step-measures would be more sensible, and would be less fraught with potential unintended consequence.

In my view, congress should scrap the current bill, and introduce one that would do only the following:

1. Set up a guestworker visa that is completely unlinked from immigration/future citizenship. It's good for 6-12 months, and you have to keep your whereabouts known (like greencard holders do now). Failure to leave when it expires or to comply with its rules puts you on a list for deportation and not getting another card. Ever. If you are here without a card, you are deported and put on same list. This would not prevent you from ALSO getting in the pipeline to eventual immigration/residence/citizenship. (You get in the already exiting line for that).
This card should cost about the same as a driver's license. No huge fees involved, no back taxes: that simply discourages people from getting one. Coyotes will make them a better deal.

2. Give employers a way to verify that social security numbers are valid (for employees that have them), and a way to verify that guestworker visas are valid. Then prosecute them if they hire people who are not documented.


This would require large $$ appropriations for setting up the necessary databases and systems to issue said cards, to identify duplicate and nonvalid social security numbers, and to prosecute employers caught hiring people who are not properly documented. (That is, $$ to enforce). Money well spent.


To Forrest
From a NYC newspaper from 2004 (Hardly a den of uncontrolled conservatism)

• In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.
• A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.
• The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious reentry following deportation.

rocker
rocker writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 10:32 AM
economics 101
BuckBean writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 9:49 AM
and ROCKER
Please! You giving economics lessons to Dr. Sowell? He wrote the book.

Dr Sowell is letting his ideology cloud his judgement. He know that americans wont do these jobs at that pay and if he raises the pay too much, those jobs will disappear and move to mexico, india etc in large numbers and the economy will tank.

rocker writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 12:13 PM
Wrong on many counts
Rob writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 11:51 AM
Rocker
Buckbean is right. You need to research. Industries like agriculture and construction hire cheap labor illegals here. They grow crops and construct here. They cannot move the land and bulidingds to Mexico or anywehere else. They are the ones that put out the rumor that Americans won't do the $7 an hour apple picking job. Right now a bushel of apples cost the company about $20 to grow and harvest. There net profit is about $60.

1) Agriculture can be moved. Food can be imported. apples can be grown cheaper in other parts of the world.

2) I would like to see proof of the profit margin you cite there. Agriculture in this country is heavily subsidized by the government which implies there isn't much money to made in it unless at avery large scale. Which is why the illegals are hired in the first place. Your facts are wrong, but I know most of you dont care about facts anyways and even when you are proven wrong, you always have your fall back arguement "they are here illegally".

rocker writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 12:55 PM
My "city" analogy
Imagine the US as your city. It is dirty and unkept. buisnesses are dying due to poor work habits of the city residents. One day some people sneak into the city. they start cleaning the city and working in these businesses. Buisness is good and soon everyone is benefiting. The city residents get bigger pays, pay less for food and have a clean city. Time passes. Soon they forget how it was before the people sneaked it. they become ungrateful to these people.

This is where we are now. How will this story end?

rocker writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 1:06 PM
pointguard, whats your point?
Are you trying to say that illegal aliens are rapists? this is the kind of analogy that makes people call you all bigots.

rocker writes: Tuesday, June, 12, 2007 1:23 PM
Pointguard: i bet the iraqis
dont apprecaite the US in thier country either. I bet they dont appreciate bombs blowing up every day in thier cities and people getting killed in hundreds. Dont see your kind protesting that.

You have it easy here. the reason you all are able to enjoy the lifestlyes you do is because of the illegal aliens. You all are just greedy. you want everything and give up nothing.
-----------------------------------------------
No, my family has given many sons and daughters to this country throughout the past 200+ years. Simply because you are too ignorant to contemplate that possibility isn't my problem.

I live in San Diego, California. I've watched every single construction company (during the last 15 years) except those requiring bonded workers go out of business or switch to illegal labor to avoid taxes and insurance required for American citizens. Funny how all the wealthy neighborhoods become more gated now and the middle class is expected to put up with clown houses and criminal drug sales as a norm in our community. The cops will not even come out anymore to run off the drug dealers. As recent as last month, Hispanic women were rescued from enslavement in a side-canyon as chattel for illegal aliens.

As for your poor concept of agricultural economics, there isn't a place in the world with the production capabilities of North American agriculture. Illegals are hired because society has allowed the poor welfare instead of making them work as a consequence of their education and abilities. My grandmother had no problem picking strawberries and cotton during her childhood and up to the age of 30, but today society allows the crybabies to get away with whining because of victimization conditioning. Honestly, you're arguing the wrong side of the coin. Simply because you want them to come into America will not change the fact that illegals will be used as slave labor, will continue to draw in more cheap illegal labor, will con