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Tuesday, February 06, 2007
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
All the "News"?
by Thomas Sowell
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The latest in a long line of New York Times editorials disguised as "news" stories was a recent article suggesting that most American women today do not have husbands. Partly this was based on census data -- but much more so on creative definitions.

The Times defined "women" to include females as young as 16 and counted widows, who of course could not be widows unless they had once had a husband. Wives whose husbands were away in the military, or in prison, were also counted among women not living with a husband.

With such creative definitions, it turned out that 51 percent of "women" were not living with a husband. That made it "most" women and created a "news" story suggesting that these women were not married. In reality, only one fourth of women have never married, even when you count girls as young as 16.

While the data quoted in the New York Times story were about women who were not living with a husband, there were quotes in the story about women who rejected marriage.

What was the point? To show that marriage is a thing of the past. As a headline in the San Francisco Chronicle put it: "Women See Less Need for Ol' Ball and Chain."

In other words, marriage is like a prison sentence, complete with the old-fashioned leg irons with a chain connected to a heavy metal ball, so that the prisoner cannot escape.

This picture of marriage and a family as a burden is not peculiar to the New York Times or the San Francisco Chronicle. It is common among the intelligentsia of the left.

Negative depictions of marriage and family are common not only in our newspapers but also wherever the left is concentrated, whether in our schools and colleges or on television or in the movies -- most famously, in the "Murphy Brown" TV program that Vice President Dan Quayle criticized, provoking a fierce counterattack from the left.

The New York Times was not the first outlet of the left to play fast and loose with statistics in order to depict marriage as a relic of the past. Innumerable sources have quoted a statistic that half of all marriages end in divorce -- another conclusion based on creative manipulation of words, rather than on hard facts.

The fact that there may be half as many divorces in a given year as there are marriages in that year does not mean that half of all marriages end in divorce.

It is completely misleading to compare all the divorces in one year -- from marriages begun years and even decades earlier -- with the number of marriages begun in that one year.

Why these desperate twistings of words and numbers by the left, in order to discredit marriage?

Partly it is because marriage is a fundamental component of a social order that the left opposes. Moreover, marriage is seen as one of the social restrictions on individual free choice.

These are not new ideas, even though they may be more pervasive than in the past, simply because the intelligentsia is larger and more vocal today.

As far back as the 18th century, Rousseau said that man is born free but is everywhere in chains. In other words, the social restrictions essential to a civilized society were seen as unnecessary hindrances to each individual's freedom.

It never seems to occur to those who think this way that if everyone were free of all social restrictions, only the strongest and most ruthless would in fact be free, and all the others would be subject to their dictates or destruction.

Marriage and family are also barriers to the left's desire to create a society built to their own specifications. Friedrich Engels' first draft of the Communist Manifesto proclaimed the end of families but Karl Marx thought better of it and took that out.

In one way or another, however, the left has for more than two centuries tried to undermine families -- including today redefining the words "marriage" and "family" to include whatever kind of people want to live together in whatever way for whatever reason.

If "marriage" can mean anything, then it means nothing.

The New York Times' long-standing motto, "All the News That's Fit to Print," should be changed to reflect today's reality: "Manufacturing News to Fit an Ideology."

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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"Why these desperate twistings"?
Mr. Sowell asked the question:

"Why these desperate twistings of words and numbers by the left, in order to discredit marriage?"

In the words of one of my favorite early SNL characters, the "church lady,":

"Could it be----SATAN??"

Traditional marriage and family life are the 'last, best hope' for the raising of well-adjusted, contributing, happy (and dare I say religious and righteous) children, and thus for society as a whole. The Devil does not like that, as he wants all men and women to be miserable, like unto himself.

I especially liked Mr. Sowell's simple statement:

"If "marriage" can mean anything, then it means nothing."

Father Lehi
Nice post Tricia. It's always good to hear someone quote Lehi's explanation of how God's plan works (not the part actually in quote marks). And thankfully it's guaranteed to work, as long as you know and follow the plan.

NYC and their compatriots
on the left want to think marriage is a thing of the past to once again attempt to brainwash people into thinking that marriage is not a fashionable thing to do. It's better to remain single, unfettered, alone, and stalking the streets at night for a one night stand. Then, mama gets pregnant, raises the child herself and takes the child to the local socialist school where said child is indoctrinated further into the elitist idea of what our society should be.

Mom has to go to work, so there is no one there, either Mother or Father to teach, guide, and promote moral and ethical solutions to problems for the child.

But, never mind, the Nanny state can take over the indoctrination. Soon we have a whole society of brain washed individuals who don't know right from wrong, don't make moral judgments and know nothing about ethics. All these individuals will learn is that they evolved from monkeys.

Marriage
TriciaCT puts it well "Traditional marriage and family life are the 'last, best hope' for the raising of well-adjusted, contributing, happy (and dare I say religious and righteous) children, and thus for society as a whole."

Dare I say the watered-down, luke-warm brand of Christianity which has been fed to the masses for a couple decades has contributed to the self-serving, self-centered if-it-feels-good-do-it attitude? Yeah, I dare say it.

God loves us, but He doesn't want us to be happy if that means sinning. While you can draw your own conclusions from that statement, the Bible is very clear on this: God wants us all to repent and be saved.

Good column Thomas !

Peppermint
I couldn't agree with you more with your assessment.

And while reading this column, my mind drifted to the question. Why? Why would the left want to do these things to our (their) own culture? We all know that the Left is hell bent on establishing socialism. But I'm beginning to think it's more than that. You and I and most normal people know exactly what socialism/communism is.
A method of dictatorship that reduces the role of society to that of an Ant Colony!

So why would good Americans want to do this? In fact, why would any intelligent, true Freedom loving person even consider socialism?

I'm coming to the conclusion that Liberals don't want just socialism, as we know it, they want a form of socialism of their own design! One that that basically allows an "anything goes" type of socialism.
In their warped minds, Liberals actually think that this type "wide open, no restrictions" type of culture would be allowed by those in power.

So my next questions are, why do those in power actually push this agenda.? Making the Left leaning Liberals feel like they're really accomplishing something? In my opinion, and looking at from the view of those in actual power, it boils down to this.. Let the fools do our work for us! Let them feel good and keep them happy! LET them think that they're really creating a better society! When the time is right and enough restrictive laws are in place. We simply lower the hammer on them by force and stop all their nonsense! And there's not a damn thing they can do about it! They will then become our slaves to our beck and call!

I may be wrong here. But it makes since to me. I can see no other reason for these things to happening.

Freedom redefined
The laxity of any social structure as desired by the left is what they call freedom. Freedom from any strictures on "what I want, when I want it, how I want it." Their first fallacy is to decouple rights from responsibility. That allows them to define narcissism as a noble pursuit because their selfish desires are defined as freedom.

Family requires, by definition, giving up their style of freedom. Marriage, truly undertaken, is losing one's individuality to couplehood. The left misses the point that both individuals in the marriage are enhanced when absolute individual freedom is replaced with a strong responsibility for the welfare of the couple and the other. Strong family units threaten liberalism because strong family units are self-reliant and self-sufficient while contributing to the strength of other families and social structures. Good families produce workers with good work ethic and high productivity. Self-centered narcissists are not productive unless it in their own narrow self-interest. Strong families and strong extended families take care of themselves. Weak families require welfare and social security. Strong families are self-reliant. Weak families "take a village" to sustain the weak individuals.

Liberalism must break down the family to raise up strong, centralized government control over our lives. Strong families don't need strong government.

Everybody Wants What I Want (or else)
It's no surprise to this old spinster (by choice) that the people who have the microphone assume that everybody would be much happier if we all wanted what they want.

I grew up in the Fifties and at that time the other side had the microphones and THEY were the ones who assumed that everybody would be happy if only we all got married and had a house in the suburbs, four children, a mortgage, two cars, and a life completely devoid of all stimulation save baby talk, Tupperware parties, and the breathless anticipation of Ole Massa, er, Hubby Dearest, coming home when we'd frisk around his feet like a happy puppy dog, fetching his pipe and slippers and newspaper and sitting up and begging until he had a moment to pat us on the head. The Leave It To Beaver Family was THE ONLY THING we all wanted, and if a girl wanted to live in an apartment at the Plaza Hotel and be a DJ, the answer was to confiscate those issues of Tiger Beat and get her a subscription to Modern Bride. Travel? Don't be silly -- travel is for wealthy people! College? Only if you can't catch A Man in high school. Face it, sweetie, your sole hope of happiness is in that suburban kitchen, laundry room, nursery and garden! Now put away your brother's Lincoln Logs and pick up that dolly! WE KNOW BEST!

The only thing that has changed is that the other side has the microphones now, and they are the ones screaming that there's only one box and every woman and girl will be happy only if she climbs into THEIR box. WE KNOW BEST! shouts the New York Times. Your only hope of happiness is to live a life of totally unfettered behaviour, beholden to nobody, living in a nice apartment in New York and being a DJ! Put down that dish mop and pick up that wrench! Give me that copy of Modern Bride this instant and take this Cosmo Magazine!

Well, fellas and galls, we didn't fall for the Mommy Myth and we're not going to fall for the Floozy Fantasy either. As the new version of Little Red Riding Hood says, it's not as easy to fool little girls as it used to be. Put out the options and give us your best argument, and take it as read that we're going to choose our own path to happiness.

And just relax. The time will come when y'all will have the microphone again and you can have the happy task to trying to stuff all females into YOUR box again.

It's all quite simple
If marriage is a thing of the past, then all objections to gay marriage go away.

That's the real point of this kind of nonsense.

self destruction...
San Fran & NYC = Sodom and Gomorrah all over again.

Steve L.
Bingo! And don't forget to add polygamy, pederasty, and even bestialgamy.

anti-socialist:

What about Whollyweird?

Surprise, Surprise!
1. Why does anyone ever expect anything else from the NYT than editorializing from "news" articles? They've been doing it for decades.
2. Mr. Right, you really lived up to your handle with that post.

Clue: it was a fluff piece
All newspapers put "human interest" stories on the front page. Stories that are not really news but might amuse the reader.

For the first time ever....
....I have a problem with Dr. Sowell; albeit a small one. Why does he use the word "intelligentsia" and the “left” synonymously? Doesn't the word imply that these people have some semblance of intelligence? Are not the "intelligentsia" a self titled group of "thinkers" who want to impose, at best, socialism; and, at worst, communism? Are not they diametrically opposed to the free, capitalistic society? Not all on the left are that far left. He should separate the two groups continually in any discussion.

ALSO, in my opinion he should use the word "pseudo" as a pre-fix to the word "intelligentsia"; always, every time "intelligentsia" is used it should be "pseudo-intelligentsia". These people are not the great thinkers of history; they are nothing more than parrots.

Conform or die!

Audi10:

I thought your remarks above are the most insightful I've read on this topic in a long time, and I read all 300-odd comments following the original Times article, plus several hundred more on TownHall-related stuff.

Not only insightful, but side-splitting. I'm still missing keys here because I can't stop laughing.

It appears that within every culture there is a dominant subculture -- for a while, at least -- and that subculture proselytizes everybody else until some of them can't stand it any more. I grew up in the heart of the baby boom, and felt that the 1950's were a swell time to be a kid, but knew it couldn't last. The conformity was too intense.

There is an inherent tension in this regard within our relatively free society. If you allow people to do whatever they want, some of them are going to opt out on the mainstream pursuits. Some of the mainstreamers are going to take this as a threat and try to bring the weirdos back in line. Anti-socialist likening NYC and San Fran to Sodom and Gomorrah is an example. Lighten up already! Those are delightful metropolises, fonts of culture, with millions -- yes millions! -- of pleasant, witty, learned, respectable people amongst the sinners.

Just a wild guess, but do you suppose Pumpkin Pass is completely sin-free? Or that a few rustics don't yearn for big city lights from time to time? And still come home uncorrupted?

It puzzles me why all this debate about the "sanctity of marriage" and the one-size-fits-all philosophy of respectable lifestyles never mentions the Islamic world by way of comparison. Women are kept in their place there. People live under the watchful eye of an omnipotent deity every minute of every day -- and stop to pray five times each day to be sure of it. Tens of millions of Muslims insist that the good old days were 1100 years ago when Islam reigned supreme; that there's little worth knowing that's been discovered since.

It really works beautifully for them, doesn't it? Look how peaceful, orderly and contented they are.

AudiR10
Question I've always had - are you are racy as your handle?

But to your post - I agree that trying to fit everyone into a box is wrong. But I think it is reasonable to say that if you are going to enter into the institution of marriage, it would be best for you and the institution if you submit to the marriage - whether you are the male or the female. Just like if you want to join the Catholic Church, you need to acknowledge the supremacy of the pope in all matters religious. If that isn't for you, be a Methodist or a Unitarian or an agnostic or an athiest. But if you don't think the pope is the religious father, you are not going to be a good Catholic. Just like you can't be a Boy Scout unless you take the Boy Scout Oath. But not all boys are Boy Scouts and that's all right. Not all women are designed to be Susie Homemaker. The fact that you don't aspire to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen doesn't make it wrong for those who do.

I've been married a long time to a great, strong woman. I grew up around strong women - grandmothers, aunts - and they chose to use their strength to support the marriage and family. I've also known strong women who chose not to be married. They used their strength in other ways no less noble. Which is right? They all are.

The Black Cherokee
intellegensia are the "useful idiots" that Lenin used to get the Commies into power in the former USSR. They are ones to want society to be nice and equal, etc, etc ad nauseum.

Of course, once Lenin was in power, the useful idiots got a bullet behind the ear at the Lubyanka.

Check my blog for an article on the joys of Socialism as described by Hitlary and experienced right now in Zimbabwe.


Divorce
Great piece here by Sowell because he identifies the source of the motivating factors behind printing the NYT article. Marx and Engels. Americans have always gravitated to the winning side and the NYT wants everyone to believe non-marriage is the winner , so it must be better. In a Communist society everyone has to work so they can earn their piece of the pie--the Communist believe non-workers and poor leadership caused Communism to fail in Russia. They refuse to even consider it is a failed ideology. After all, "It takes a village". Individual attainment of wealth cannot be tolerated. In recent years the Law has attempted to make divorce too expensive to even contemplate. The unintended consequence is , it has made marriage too expensive to consider. Divorce can now rob (note my choice of word)a working man of his wage for years. I know Army Officers that have lost half their retirement pay for life and $50,000.00 in child support and alimony for up to 8 years just to rid themselves of a wife that drinks too much or lets herself "go". Young Officers see this happening and opt out of marriage. Military retirement is viewed as Community property. This is not just a military problem it is happening all across the country in the civilian world as well. Earning a good living is hard enough, don't couple it with the unknown of a financially crippling alimony when the mystique of love has vanished.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics
The three kinds of lies, according to Mark Twain, with statistics being the worst. Just one more part of the "news" media's detailed plan for MISreporting the news, in their effort to subjugate the masses to their liberal way of thinking.

My favorite example of statistical abuse by the media, though probably not designed for political purposes, was a story claiming that, among heart patients (people who had already had at least one heart attack), simply waking up was just as likely to cause a heart attack as having sex. (Apparently, merely waking up creates a minor shock to the body that, in some cases, I forget the exact numbers, but the percent of heart attacks caused by waking up was statistically the same as the percent of heart attacks caused by having sex. The statisticial fallacy here is that people wake up AT LEAST ONCE every day (most people that old probably wake up two or more times per day), but that people of that age have sex, at best, once a month. So, even though sex occurred about 1/50 as often as waking up, it accounted for the same number of heart attacks! I'd say that DEFINITELY makes sex much, much more dangerous (to a heart patient at least) than waking up.

Regards,
Trevor

A little multichoice quiz
Q: What is the difference between the New York Times and The Onion?

(a) The Onion is usually more accurate in its reporting
(b) The Onion at least ADMITS to being a parody, not fact-based
(c) Both (a) and (b).

The way the NYT has been going lately, the above quiz has actually become valid.

the wisdom? of AudiR10 and Tomgee
So good to hear from the "enlightened" that those of us who choose to believe in (and live out) the virtues of the traditional married lifestyle, are just misinformed and narrow-minded. This has always been the tactic used by opponents of traditionalism.

Interestingly, they are being just as narrow-minded as they accuse me of being. Just because I believe that traditional marriage is the best way to individual happiness (and societal order), does not mean I reject different choices for others. In fact, if one would not be happy married with children, then they should by all means stay single, there are enough unhappied married people out there.

I think most traditionalists are like Mr. Right. We accept that not everyone fits the same mold. In my experiance, traditionalists are far more tolerant than they are given credit for. It is a mistake to think that choosing an alternate path makes you more tolerant and enlightened. Nor should you imply that someone else choosing the more traditional path makes them less so.

Audi, there is a cynicism in your humor (admittedly, often the mark of good humor) that belies your claim of self assured happiness. And your attempts to put me in the box of "wanting to grab the microphone back" from the libs, is the same thing you accuse others of trying to do to you.

Tom, comparing the Islamic model to the traditional marriage model is a false premise. We live in a free and Christian nation. Free to live any way we want. And if you want to live in the moral cesspools of NYC or SanFran ("delightful metropolises, fonts of culture, with millions -- yes millions! -- of pleasant, witty, learned, respectable people" - give me a break!), feel free.

Just understand that Christians understand the fallen nature of man and will always seek to guide others toward redemption and victory over their basest instincts. That is why we speak up, out of love for others and concern for their true happiness, not because we want to "impose" any beliefs on them.

In the meantime, enjoy whatever lifestyle brings you happiness and peace. Just stop lecturing and pretending that your choices are superior.

zzzzzzzzzz

Married To My Best Friend For 30+ Years
Mr Sowell, I applaud your bringing the shining light of truth to the forefront of this vicious and constant attack on the sanctity of marriage! Until each of us speaks up and defends our ideals of marriage and the family unit being sacrosanct, we will continue to be bombarded with these accepted "facts" from the mainstream media. I am proud to be married to my best friend and I realize how blessed I am to have him in my life. Funny, I haven't noticed any ball or chains or leg irons from day one. Ours is an equal partnership, where responsibilities for the success or failure of the marriage are evenly distributed. When one of us falters, the other picks up the pieces and we resume our pace. My husband is devoted to me and I to him. It works out well that way. He is a tremendous source of strength for our family, regardless of whatever boulders may thrown in our path. And again, sir, thank you for proving that age old cliche that "liars figure and figures lie."

not peculiar to the NYT or SFC...
quote: "This picture of marriage and a family as a burden is not peculiar to the New York Times or the San Francisco Chronicle. It is common among the intelligentsia of the left."

And also to single men everywhere! :D


re: Peppermint
quote: "It's better to remain single, unfettered, alone, and stalking the streets at night for a one night stand."

Do you really believe that's what it is like to be single?!? If so, you really need to get out more.

NY Times Motto
How about "All the news that fits."?

the "S" word - submission
Donaldd mis-states - "The Southern Baptist Convention many years ago tried to put wives into submission to their husbands. Well, you can guess the backlsh."

Actually, the SBC changed the "Baptist Faith and Message" to quote Ephesians 6, "Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands as unto the Lord." The media and other elites indeed went nuts, but only because they did not include the rest of the quote (also from Ephesians) "Husbands love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her." This is the only model for a sucessful marriage, two individuals putting their spouse above themselves.

The cultural elites say that the key to happiness is to love yourself more than others and make personal happiness your goal. The Biblical model is to love and serve others first and personal happiness will follow from that.

zzzzzzzz

P.S. Taking Biblical passages out of context is a favorite tactic because it is easy and makes you sound smart. Actually digging down and finding the real answers in the Bible takes time and is hard work, but it is evermore worthwhile!

zzzzzzzz

re: singLOUD
I would note that there's a difference between "submit" and "love". That's not exactly taking it out of context to point that out.

Donaldd
Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

Yes, Women got the right to vote in 1920. Yes the country is made up of a female majority.

No, that's not when things changed. I seem to recall that in the 40s and 50s women, even those born after 1920, still held to a traditional standard of behavior.

I can think of no one off the top of my head who (A) wants to take the right to vote from women, (B) take women out of the workplace, or (C) see them reduced to the position of chattel they hold in strictly Islamist countries, which is how the Left has characterized marriage.


John Galt
No of course I don't think that is what it's like.
I was using hyperbole, or being sarcastic to make a point, that's all. Geesh!!

Marriage obsolete?

I see the typical liberal attitudes Sowell mentions in many of my old college buddies from the '60's who went on to become college professors. "Everyone is good, do only what feels right (good), eschew convention and norms, tolerate anything, believe in nothing, stand only for equality of outcomes for all, no matter what."

I couldn't give a fig if others want to view the "ideal" society as a classless, colorless, sexless, defenseless, egalitarian Utopia. Our media can push this agenda all they want. My friends can live without mates, making use of turkey basters instead of "chaining" themselves to a husband. I am happily attached to my spouse of 30 years.

Marriage, like any other good thing, does not come either cheap or easy. It requires work and diligence. But above all it is a commitment. Ya know, a legal contract? You sign on the dotted line for the long haul, no matter what. You work together, you enjoy the good times and support one another through the bad.

Your reward is a friend for life, probably the only person with whom you can be utterly free. FREE. The Leftists do not understand what freedom is, what it means, or how to achieve it. They never will. Because inherent in the concept (of freedom) is the imperative that you give up some of your own wants and needs for the sake of someone else -- a "higher good". I enjoy the freedom to put someone else ahead of myself, and the rewards to me are incalculable.

AudiR10: Really?
After reading many of your posts on the subject of men verses women, you seem to be an extremely angry “yenta” of the middle aged variety who blames an entire gender for not wanting to fight over the privilege of basking in your goddess-like presence. The problem is the fact that your apparent state of “singlehood” is of course totally due to the apparent short comings of the male of the species since you are so perfect in everyway, shape & form. Maybe if you didn’t take yourself quite so seriously, you might not be quite so angry at men in general…But that would detract from your quality time spent in your cloister with like-minded, enlightened “female intellectuals.”

Women limited to boxes? We minimally franchised, expendable males are expected to operate within the “box” created by feminists and their duplicitous self-loathing male counterparts (with their misdirected sense of chivalry), i.e., American Society's slavish preoccupation with its main post-modern domestic policy: providing for the emotional, physical, financial & responsibility-free well-being of its virtuous female electorate. Examples? Artificially enhanced lifespans, no-fault divorce (i.e., alimony, child support, child custody, paternity fraud, etc.), affirmative action/quotas, Female-only technical scholarships (e.g. Intel), VAWA, welfare state, Title IX, taxpayer-funded abortion on demand in perpetuity (43M+ and counting). Plus the aforementioned progressive taxation system (top 50% (majority=MEN) pay 96% of all income taxes) has been put in place by the Democrat party that penalizes men while financing said female-centric welfare state, abortion industry, divorce industrial-complex (women initiate 80% of all divorces), child custody monopoly, etc. What a fine society radical feminists and their duplicitous self-loathing males with their misdirected sense of chivalry have created for the minimally franchised, expendable male taxpayer. The clear majority of wealth redistribution is male to female. Social security is just one facet of the pro-female welfare state. Sounds like a "Woman's World" to me- financed on the backs of men.

The advantage of family
One day, you will have to depend on someone else. Few ever keel over dead while tending their gardens, and your odds are not good on being one of them.

Friends are eventually going to have their own problems and their own families with their problems.

Same goes for lovers who are not married to you.

Social workers have tens or hundreds of other people with their problems, and has all kinds of regulations in helping you. Plus, when it is someone else's money, you have to account for what you did with every penny.

Dogs and cats don't make a lot of money, and can't help you buy your heart medicine.

It is far better to have family, preferably your own family---nieces and nephews tend to prioritize their own parents, as you would expect your own children to prioritize you over your brother or sister.

Back to the future
Thank God for "The Right". Just think what America would be like if it wern't for the wonderful, uplifting oh so righteous "Right".

1.Slavery still practiced
2.Women still considered property without the right to vote or own property
3. No intergration so no Sowell
4. Government still controlling the bedrooms of the country

But the "Right" fought hard against those closeminded "lefties" and now Minorities and women can be full participating members of society. Thank God for the very Christian, oh so righteous, "Right"

submission vs. love
John writes, "I would note that there's a difference between "submit" and "love". That's not exactly taking it out of context to point that out."

Actually, there is very little difference between loving and serving. People who object to the word submit are those who can't imagine submitting out of love instead of being forced to submit. Also, the command to love is to love "as Christ loved the church" i.e. as a servant. When a wife chooses to submit to the servant leadership of her husband, both benefit because they are giving, not taking. Those who do not understand servant leadership will never understand Biblical submission either.

As sdan points out, it is a shameful irony that so many do not realize that true freedom and peace and happiness can only be achieved by putting others first (love, serve, submit).

Of course, I could be wrong. I have been married for 25+ years and am so blessed to have a limited understanding of what it takes to make this work. However, I know that it is not so for everyone. Two of my college buds got married and lived the dream for 27 years. She just left him to "find her own way" because she "needs her freedom" and "deserves some happiness." I don't understand her.

I do know that happiness is not found in pursuit of happiness, it is found in putting others ahead of yourself.

zzzzzzzzzzz

clarifications

Donaldd & Happy Jake:

The world, lifestyles, etc. have been changing all along. If that weren't so, history books would be a big snooze. I enjoy the reading of history for the mental exercise of imagining myself dropped into a time machine, emerging in different eras and seeing how much I would recognize and how well I could get along. Among the Founding Fathers, I'd guess that only Ben Franklin would be unsurprised at the effects harnessing electricity has had upon today's world.

American women officially started agitating for more rights, including voting, in 1848 with a convention in an upstate New York small town. Abigail Adams suggested as much in a private letter to her husband John while he was away at the Constitutional Convention in 1789.

Feminism was upstaged by westward expansion, the struggle against slavery and industrialization for two generations, but it didn't go away.

The lifestyles of 1789 in America would have been unrecognizable to their European ancestors of two hundred years earlier, as they were to the earlier arrivals living farther west in tepees.

Marriage based primarily on romantic love hasn't been around forever, either.

singLOUD:

I never suggested that practitioners of traditional marriage are "misinformed and narrow-minded." I only suggested, as Mr. Right did, that it's not for everyone. You unwittingly demonstrated my point about taking offense too easily but I agree that traditionalists are more tolerant than they're given credit for. I'm fairly traditional myself and glad for it; was less so when younger which I'm glad I grew out of, but I've been "tolerated" in every time and place I've been to -- foreign countries, the rural North, South, East and West, as well as the moral cesspools that you tolerate so reluctantly.

Always right
I really want to respond to that post. It's obviously sarcastic, but so poorly written that it's hard to discern exactly where the sarcasm lies.

The post seems to be based on a silly notion that our country's history has been dominated by the same political polarization we see today. It's as if, in "always right"'s world, everyone from ages past would filter nicely into either the "liberal" or "conservative" side of our modern mindsets.

In his world, those who fought for the abolition of slavery were liberals. I wonder if he's ever heard the name William Wilberforce before? And for his views on women's rights, methinks he needs to be slapped in the head by Dorothy Sayers.

Bones
Wilberforce became an elighented Tory after his spiritual conversion and Sayers was a Christian Humanist. Enough said.

The Black Cherokee
The word "Intelligentsia" implies all those negative things you asked him to spell out -- the self-exaltation, the fakery, the posturing, the elitism. Calling them "intelligentsia" is no more calling them intelligent, than calling people "liberals" is calling them truly liberal.

By the way: if vegetarians eat only vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?

A.R.
And clearly, as a crusader for the abolition of slavery and an "enlightened Tory", Wilberforce would be solidly in your camp.

bones, get a clue
You wrote, "those who fought for the abolition of slavery were liberals."

Um... no. They may have described themselves with words that sound like "liberal", but they were in no sense liberals as currently conceived. In fact, the abolitionists had a lot more in common with today's anti-abortion activists than with any other modern group you could name -- the same tactics, the same religious beliefs, the same stridency.

You also wrote, "I wonder if he's ever heard the name William Wilberforce before?"

I have. Wilbeforce was a member of a fairly new religious sect in his day, who called themselves "Evangelicals." And yes, it's the same movement that still call themselves "Evangelicals" in modern America and Britain. It was a pretty radical form of religious expression in its day.

Abolition was driven, in Britain, by a coalition of religious activists drawn primarily from two fairly radical groups, the Evangelicals and the Brethren (derisively called "Quakers"). It was driven in the US by similar groups. It was almost entirely a religious movement, and opposed by anti-religious pragmatists.

inkling
I think you need to re-read my comments. I was making almost the exact same point to "always right". Or, at least, I was trying to make that point.

only women are avoiding marriage?
I've seen various people writing about this story and the flaws in it, but one thing I haven't seen is that it implies that this is happening because women are waking up and deciding its not worth being married. Well, even if you accept the statistics, nobody seems to be mentioning that it also means that 51% of MEN are not married - at least, not to women. Of course, the fact that men would want to avoid marriage is not a story that fits the Times' agenda.

singLOUD
Reading quite a few of these posts and posts on many other websites I had gotten the feeling that I was part of a very small crowd who had an understanding of the word submission that went beyond handcuffs and ballgags. Your clear explanation of the whole context of the oft misquoted passage from Ephesians is wonderful. I also liked your reference to servant leadership.

I have had a worklife with more careers than most and I have held jobs from factory rat to CEO. I also have had a small farm most of my life and have nearly always had some kind of livestock around, preferably horses. Oh, and I'm also married. My most successful tenures in business came after I discovered servant leadership. When I viewed my mission as one of supporting and enabling my staff to do their most brilliant work and all I had to do was point them in what I perceived as the right direction, companies were successful beyond expectations. If you want to train a horse to do what you want, you must submit to the rules for working with a horse. One of the trainers I worked with referred to it as allowing the horse to succeed. In my misspent youth, I tried to muscle horses to my way of doing something. Now, I have learned (sometimes painfully) that understanding what makes a horse tick and satisfying their needs and overcoming their fears (in other words, submitting to the rules of horsedom) makes them not only do what you want a lot faster and safer, they are a much more reliable companion in all circumstances. You can't even run a computer without submitting to the rules for making it work. And you are correct in pointing out that true happiness can only be achieved when you understand true submission and service. I have never been more successful nor have I assisted in the success of more other people than when I have sought to serve.

Rick
I thought the same thing and I'm trying to find an article I read a few months back where a poll of men stated overwhemingly that getting married was financially dangerous to them. They did not want to lose 50% of what they had earned in a divorce that usually leaves the men worse off and paying for years.

I have an old friend who's wife went off the deep end, and he divorced her. He paid alimony and child support until it hurt. He gets remarried and the ex takes him BACK to court to have his new wife's wages assessed for more money. Needless to say, they had to flee the State! (Cal)

As you stated, THAT info doesn't fit into their agenda.

donaldd
Wrong again! Sowell takes issue with the intellectual dishonesty of the NYT, with its deliberate choice of flawed methodology and shoehorning of conclusions into its predetermined premise in order to push its political agenda. Sowell could have written his "fluff piece" on any number of NYT articles.

Fall of the West
Dear Dr. Sowell,

Please stop pointing out that if all of society's rules were eliminated, and the maximum of personal freedom achieved, that we would devolve into chaos and the strong would brutalize the weak.

I'm planning on forming my own empire when that happens, so the less said about it, the better. I want the Marxists in this country to succeed, so the Republic will fall, and I can form an army of post-Apocolyptic bikers, who will terrorize the weak. I plan on starting on the very liberals who make it possible, just for poetic justice.

I will have a position available for a chief advisor to the Emperor, if you're interested.

Bones
Perhaps what you wrote was so poorly written, Ol inkling couldn't find the "essence"

theBaron
Where's the rally point?

3 Words Which Caused My Divorce....
Mother-In-Law. True.

Anyway, those who have read me know I'm on the Right, but is it really a liberal agenda why most women do not chose to marry? I think it's truly a No-Party phenomena.

Look at the world and what's out there for both guys and gals who wouldn't mind a commitment. People are fickle, entirely too picky and completely imperfect themselves. You know the old saying, "Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?" Well, seems the streets are rolling with herds of cows in need of milking, fast.

It's literally a miracle getting a rose and a box of chocolates on a date, being driven to a movie, have a nice dinner and a peck on the cheek goodnight. Instead, it's being picked up to go to a bar, get wasted, watching him check out every female who walks by, you go to bed together, and the next day, you wonder why they haven't called you.

Our value system has gone down the toilet, that I think may be a causal factor from Leftist ideals. But still, in all, it's slim pickings out there for both guys and gals, Lefties and Righties. Everyone's heart gets broken and no one wants to take a risk on a long shot. Trust is out the window, love is bargained, any conflicts are not reasoned with compromise and it winds up becoming a war.

People just are different today. Women who have self confidence and can hold their own perhaps don't want to take the risk of marriage or haven't met the right guy yet. I'm happy that the world is a place where I don't have to marry and I still can survive and be self reliant.

But I wouldn't mind getting married again. I'm sure a lot of unmarried women who are self reliant wouldn't mind meeting Mr. Right (or Left).

The problem is, love has been so polluted.

Always Right
OK. There is one issue we can move to the present day.

Senator Robert "I look nice in a white sheet" Byrd is on the left today, yet fillibustered against the civil rights act of 1964. So, I do NOT think you have proven that somehow all good flows from the political left and the right is Satan's lapdog.

Another Take
I read the Times's article. I wonder why the reporter assumed that it was women that caused the supposed reduction in marriage. Why couldn't the article have been titled "Men are Sick of Putting Up With Women's Whining"?

GunnyG and Demosthenes
You both have it right and you both understand. Marriage is a dwindling institution of our society and it is all an unintended consequence of the divorce laws. I recently saw a poll that indicated 40% of young men questioned said "they would never marry". Primary reason given was the possibility of losing all they work for, to include their home, if they were to divorce. Reasons for divorce and scenarios supporting divorce are too many and too varied to consider them all. The young men stated "Living with a woman, even if for an extended time, is preferable because to leave her only requires one of you to pack your belongings". Sex has become equivalent to a hand shake in bed and many girls are willing to "move in" when asked. Divorce laws favor women, men know that, and they are willing to avoid financial ruin and just "shack up". Too bad, I have been married 46 years and I could not imagine living any other way.

I think you've missed the obvious...
marriage obeys the laws of supply and demand. On the demand side, there always has been and always will be a (probably) small amount of women and men who don't want to marry. My guess is that these days the fact that fewer women marry is related to the lack of supply of suitable males.

My analysis indicates that the problem is that the supply of males has ben contaminated by the presence of too many liberal men. I mean look at Clinton, apparently lots of women (at least in press corps) wanted to sleep with him, but not even Maureen Dowd is stupid enough to want to marry him. Since my analysis is based on the same post hoc ergo propter hoc as Global Warming (ok, so global warming doesn't even have the post hoc part right), I expect 3,500 scientists to write to the UN agreeing with me.

The Liberal Agenda
So, where is this all heading? Let's see...

1) Liberals think marriage is a dead institution
2) Liberals think children are a nuisance best avoided or aborted
3) Liberals think you should "die with dignity" when you become old enough to be a burden to society
4) Freedom to liberals means being free to choose to be whatever gender you want to be, to distribute as much pornography as possible, and to redefine any institution into whatever makes you feel better about yourself at the time

With this kind of philosophy, it's only a matter of time before there are no more liberals, since their only form of reproduction is indoctrination, but eventually there won't be any children left with liberal tendencies to be indoctrinated.

Forget about all the concern over marriage, abortion, porn, etc. We've got to head 'em off at the pass and prohibit cloning - it's the only way they will be able to stick around for more than 50 years!

Of course, this assumes anyone will still be around after the Islamo-terrorists get the bomb. Why do they hate us? Maybe it's because of what they see us doing with our freedom?

Warrior
We're coming up on 17! Congrats to you and the missus.

My wife told me two things when dating.

1. "You want the milk? Buy the cow."

2. "You mess around on me one time, I'm gone."

Heeded to the both (even in Thailand)!

Dad was right, find a keeper and...KEEP HER!


Always
Did you really find my sarcasm unclear, or are you just getting your digs in?

ScottA
On the money, except for one thing: they control education and mass media. So they can continue to manufacture their own type by way of propaganda.

So, all, if you object to liberalism, let's make vouchered education a priority. Bring the free market to education, and liberalism will vanish in a generation.

I'm Sorry, I Just Gotta Say It
-- as everyone should know, the leading #1 cause of divorce is MARRIAGE!

Mr. Right

Ah yes....Rules. Not the favorite topic amongst liberal-minded thinkers. Problem is, life as we know it (and perhaps as hidden) is run by rules. Natural Law (gravity, light, energy, etc.) and Moral Law (good, evil, right, wrong).

As you have succinctly noted, a person functions best -- whether dealing with horses, employees, children, or a mate -- by following well-understood and immutable rules. Modern secularists hate these ideas, because their own inchoate concepts about that which is right and that which is wrong are as fixed as Jell-O nailed to a wall.

Supports Gay Marriage
I also feel that by depicting marriage as a "minority" choice, the NYT strengthens the case for Gay marriage, which has been opposed because it would undermine a fundamental institution of society. Attack its importance by showing that most people don't engage in it, and this argument loses its justification.

However, as Sowell points out, the Left's support of Gay marriage is also really an attempt to destroy the institution by eviscerating it- removing its fundamental meaning and thus negating it by making it all encompassing.

So I guess it's all about denigrating a foundation of our culture to allow Liberalism free reign for social engineering.


Both men and women consider it a burden
If marriage wasn't considered a burden by both sexes the divorce rate would be much lower. Couples call luxuries necessities and use this phony excuse to farm out their kids and devote themselves to jobs instead of raising a family. If they would rent a home instead of buying do with one car and that could be a used one, and not buy all new furniture and all the latest gadgets then one could easily stay home and raise the kids while the other worked but no they buy into the Madison Avenue spin that they have to have it all and give their kids short shrift, devoting themselves to buying everything advertised on primetime and thinking there is nothing wrong with debt and nothing good about saving money.

Prof Gene, GunnyG Demosthenes Warrior
"it is all an unintended consequence of the divorce laws. "

"Couples call luxuries necessities and use this phony excuse to farm out their kids and devote themselves to jobs instead of raising a family"

You have to go farther back than either of those, to the early part of the 20th century. Marriage fundamentally changed with contraception. Whether you think it good or bad, that is when the relationship between husband and wife changed - every thing else came as domino effect. 1930 Lambeth Conference made it "theologically" ok for the majority of the population to contracept. Before that it was considered evil. Ghandi said it was unmanly to not wrestle with the devil.

Donaldd
I'm a Southern Baptist and a woman and I've never felt like the SBC was trying to force me to subjugate myself to my husband or any other man. I've been married 21 years. Submission is not about subjugation. Subjugation is the relationship between a slave in the Old South and the master. The Biblical word "submit" does not have the same connotation.

Submission is a voluntary state whereby you think of the other person's needs before your own. As men are called to love their wives as Christ loved the church, even to the point of dying a horrible death, submission doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. If your husband loves you even to die for you, submission shouldn't be a problem.

Remember that the Bible must be taken in context with itself and the clearest pictuer of a honorable Christian woman actually appears in the Old Testament, in Proverbs 31. Does this sound like a woman who appears to be subjugated? It doesn't to me. She sounds like a woman who is respected for her skills by her family and community, but also submitted to her husband.

I would note that this works out in a variety of ways, but that the married Christians I've known in my 30 years of Christianity have never expected the wives to be bare-foot and pregnant in the kitchen. As just one example of how that works out in modern day America, in Alaska (where men are men, but women win the Iditarod) -- I am the duly elected Building and Grounds chair for our church for the next three years. I have three guys (one of them my husband) on my committee. That may seem very modern and feminist, but it really stemmed from practical considerations, not male-female traditional roles. Of course, this is Alaska, where a Proverbs 31 woman might do the family auto mechanics and build the family home with her own hands because her husband is off to the North Slope making the money to pay for the materials. Proverbs 31 women are about submission as servants and the respect their skills earn them, not necessarily about the actually activities they engage in.

Dorothy Sayers
I wouldn't say that Sayers was a "Christian Humanist." She was a relatively old-fashioned High Church Anglican, and a strong lady--she had to be, because she was married to a handsome ne'er-do-well and she was the basic support.

I am also a widow, with a 41-year good marriage behind me. Looking around now, the demographics are really against my finding good male companionship. Unfortunately, the main thing it takes to make a good marriage is good people.

Ever lowering standards
This "news story" is just one more example of how the NYTImes has crossed the line from journalism to propaganda. I can't imagine why the remaining legitimate journalists who work there don't just quit in disgust. Having the NYTimes on a resume is becoming a liability.

Every time I hear this story, I marvel
at the emphasis on single WOMEN.

Excuse me, but isn't there approximately equal numbers of men and women?

So unless there are a few Ladies out there with male harems, there are about the same number of single men, who are not asking these ladies to marry them.

And when they talk about these 15-year-olds without a husband, did anyone point out that they probably have a daddy.

And if their Mom watches Jerry Springer, they probably have two daddies!

There are other reasons for not...
... getting married, or at least for waiting to a later age to do so than a jaded view on marriage. As a 35-year old who's never taken the plunge, it isn't that I'm against marriage altogether (previous joking notwithstanding), it is that I am enjoying being single and I am not willing to "settle". I've seen the baby boom generation's tendency for divorce and the effect on children, and I'm not wanting to follow in their footsteps.

Because of our increased options in education, the job market, life span, health issues, etc., we have the freedom to wait rather than feel like we need to get married so young. I believe that if people are more mature when they get married, there is a *better* chance of success. I'd much rather a couple get married with both possessing a mature sense of love, respect, and, yes, sex than to get married too young to know what they really want or need.

That awful NYT
I opened up this column because I have had the news on, and am hearing over and over
and over news about the murderous astronaut, Guiliano's wife's book, Haggard's re-
conversion and I said to myself that I am sick of news that isn't news worth listening to,
especially 3 or 4 times in one hour.. Maybe Sowell will have something that is actually news.

Instead I find out that a columnist is once again assessing something from the NYT,
(negatively, of course, since this is Town Hall) and that the posters are once again accusing the NYT of being inaccurate, communistic, intellectually dishonest, politically biased, etc. etc. I find this rather amusing because I could say the exact same thing (swapping communistic for Nazi-istic) for the majority
of those who post, making the accusations. The difference is that the posters have never
been accused of being the best newspaper in the world.

I am going to throw this out - will someone tell me "using some actual proof" how you have come to determine that the NYT is a communistic rag. Perhaps
you might start with a dictionary definition of Communism and then go into your harangue
(oops, excuse me, your explanation). I thought the era had ended where everything evil was
was considered communistic. In fact, I think it has. It is only in Town Hall where I find the term
used any more, except occasionally where it is actually used correctly.

Oh, gotta go. Something is on TV that is actually newsworthy. The Ku Klux Klan is making a
comeback. I wonder if they are Republicans or Democrats.

Demonsthenes
A quote from your response to AudioR10: "the problem is the fact that your apparent state of “singlehood” is of course totally due to the apparent short comings of the male of the species." Then in the next paragraph you go on to prove the shortcomings of the male of the species. Or at least yours. It provided a terrrrrific laugh.

First of all, men do not pay 96% of income tax and yes I
know you don't say that exactly; you only make it seem
like that is what you are saying. The statistic, which
comes from a Rush Limbaugh site making it suspect
enough, says that 50% of the wealthiest people in the
US pay 96% of the taxes. That happens to include me;
that happens to include my daughter; that happens to include nearly all of my female friends.

There is also implied, within your misogynist complaints,
that women who stay home with the kids are somehow
not entitled to any of the family fortune because they
did not "earn" any of the money.

The rest of the rant is nearly incomprehensible, but I
think if you would re-read it yourself you would discover
that you wrote some stuff you probably didn't mean to.
For instance - no-fault divorce has been a real loser
for women, not the other way around. Alimony has become
much, much less common these days reserved almost exclusively for those women who did not work outside the
home during marriage and the older she is, the more
likely she is to get it (because of her lack of job
opportunities).

The only clear majority of wealth redistribution from male to female is at the time of death, not divorce. Females almost always end up with the short end of the stick financially in a divorce unless the man happens to be exceptionally wealthy and exceptionally wayfaring.

And I still haven't figured the problem with Social
Security, especially is the context of its being the
woman's fault, but then I really don't care.

My suggestion is - get a life, try loving someone,
and if that is not possible, kiss your gun or cuddle with
all that money you get to keep for yourself because
you, by gummy, would not dream of doing something so
stupid as getting married.

And, hey, it would be stupid, considering...

Mr. Right
There is little that I disagree with in your posts on
this site (with one major exception) even though I am
a raving liberal.

I could go through a whole litany of what liberals are
about as opposed to what the posters on Town Hall tell
the world what we are about, but I have a toothache
and I am about to search out the medicine and then go to
bed.

I could not, however, let the strong families, weak
families statement stand: "Strong families and strong extended families take care of themselves. Weak families require welfare and social security. Strong families are self-reliant. Weak families "take a village" to sustain the weak individuals."

I grew up in the 40's and 50's, so I have been
there, done that as the saying goes. And if families
ever had a village to help them raise their children,
it was then.

Back then, everyone had the same belief system, and if
they didn't, they at least kept it to themselves.
The home, the school, the church, and your neighbors
were all teaching the same basic principals.

Sex before marriage was bad, babies without marriage
made you an outcast, teacher was boss at school,
petty theft and other crimes were punished, television
programs were clean, society directed boys to become
breadwinners and girls to be homemakers and mothers.

Parents had all sorts of help. "Self-Reliant" families
is a fallacy in the same way that the "self-made" man
is. It is ignoring all those things within society,
government, genes, environment, peer pressure or peer
competition that makes us what we are as individuals or as a society

Feelings...oh oh oh feelings....
Lemonade - Since your rant did not (and could not) dispute either Dr. Sowell's facts or his conclusions, it seems your sour mood reflects little more than your feelings. Thin gruel, indeed.

Pitiful. Typical.

GnuCarSmell
Since I was not writing in an attempt to dispute what Dr.
Sowell said about marriage, it would make sense that I
did not do so.I happen to agree with him that marriage is
the backbone of any society, and I myself have recently
celebrated 35 years of said institution.

I was not even writing to defend the NYT, although it is
so very predictable that a Town Haller would put a negative spin on anything they print that I don't know whether to groan, yawn, or puke when it happens.

My primary reason for writing was to once again re-iterate that most Town Hallers don't have a clue as to what makes a liberal tick. They assume that we are all New Yorkers or Californians, and they in addition assume that all New Yorkers and Californians are alike. You don't even need to know the issue to know this is not only an incorrect assumption but an absurd one.

If you want to sound intelligent why don't you point
out something that I wrote that is incorrect. Take any
sentence and just tell me where I am wrong. These are
not "feelings;" I checked out everything I wrote.

If you want to read a "rant" read the post
by Handy right after yours. Now that is sour grapes.
I hope he stays single, giving some lucky girl a chance
at happiness, 'cuz she won't get it with him.


Lemonade
Dr Sowell is not a "Town Haller". He is a respected economist, syndicated columnist, and professor. Town Hall carries his column, true, but his scope reaches far beyond this site and its readers.

If you take issue with his premise, then by all means, make your case. Otherwise...




Mondamay
For the record, when I was speaking of Town Hallers, I was
speaking primarily of those who post on a regular basis
on Town Hall. I was not excluding Sowell necessarily but
that was not who I was addressing at the time.

Everybody --
-- can we get out of "meta-posting" mode (where all we do is post postings about other posters' postings) and get back to TOPIC??

Maiwage!
The only thing standing in the way of government controlling and manipulating children to indoctrination is the family.

I read that NYTimes story and now it makes me sick to see how the data can be manipulated to support a conclusion.

This is worse than the journalist who commited plagirism. Does this journalist still have a job? I feel sorry for her next employer. Once again, the NYTimes has picked a winner.

SP's at work

This is another example (of many many) secular progressive thoughts. As others have suggested, these people have no vision beyond their nose, no consideration of the long term effects.

Dennis Prager explains this very well in another recent segment on Demographics. Mark Steyn poses a real world scenario as the end result of SP thinking. If we push for so many of these "left" ideals, we will reap the fruits of these approaches, i.e. we will lose at the polls. So many of these left ideas lead to slowing or even reversing population growth whereas the muslims use their baby factories to increase their populations the end result will be countries that have major votes that are insistent on sharia law. Then the lefties will be under those laws along with the rest of us all to the worst in our current system. To me this is the worst scenario, having muslim clerics in the courts, VOTED IN UNDER OUR DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM ! ! Find and read Mark Steyn's book, our way of life depends on it.

Ed

Wrong Priorities
If one has his/her priorities in order, a lifetime of connubial, and every other kind of bliss is readily available.

On analyzing the lefties, a single root cause continues to rear it's ugly head: wrong priorities.

Self cannot always come first and have that individual experience any kind of happiness. There would never be "enough" of anything.

Right priorities:
1. God
2. Country
3. Family
4. Team (job, etc.)
5. Self

See how self should be last?

And THAT (me FIRST) is THE Problem, disagree if you feel that is wrong. And that is entirely the lefty agenda.

Maiwage
"I read that NYTimes story and now it makes me sick to see how the data can be manipulated to support a conclusion."

Try listening to Rush Limbaugh. You can be sick every
week day of your life.

And if you like to watch him on the computer/tv, you
will have the pleasure of watching a big fat blob on
top of it.

Lemonade -- Please --
quoth Lemonade: "And if you like to watch him on the computer/tv, you will have the pleasure of watching a big fat blob on top of it."

You know, Al Franken already ran the "Fat Rush Limbaugh" jokes into the ground. FYI, he's lost a lot of weight since publication of that book. Your point was made already, and this sentence wasn't needed.

And again, I'll thank everybody to stick to TOPIC. Personal listener preferences are NOT the topic.

Geez, I've never seen a forum get so badly side-tracked (who am I kidding? this happens ALL the time!)

You are right Unca Alby
At least about the badly side-tracked forums.

But wrong on Rush Limbaugh. Did you see him do his
infamous Michael J. Fox imitation. That was a long time
after Al Franken's book. He is once again a big fat blob. (I toned that down from slob to blob, being the generous person that I am).

There are many things you might say that would convince
me to apologize, but it won't be about Rush Limbaugh. I
consider him to be the single most destructive pundit in
the US and he has been for probably 20 years.

But if I get out of line elsewhere, do drop me a line.



Ah Yes --
I've heard it said he's the "most dangerous man in America."

He reminds people of that with pride.

BUT THAT'S NOT THE TOPIC!!
SHUT UP, UNCAALBY!! BACK TO THE TOPIC!!

What's the problem?
Sowell is the sort of writer who generally says all that can be about a given topic.

To Lemonade: Your first post contained "Instead I find out that a columnist is once again assessing something from the NYT,
(negatively, of course, since this is Town Hall)"

It was upon this statement that I based your (absurd) complaint.

Given that the NYT has been consistently losing readers and revenue for years, the burden of proof is upon those who insist that the NYT is still a quality product (that would be you).



Ya gotta be creative
Ya gotta be creative to make the facts fit your politics. That's what make the NYT great.

http://www.givemetheinfo.com/blog/blogger.html
A family Energy Farm, biodiesel, ethanol

Why Tommy Can't Read
The principal scandal here is that "Dr. Sowell" failed to read the NYT article accurately.

The above fact could be verified by Dr. Sowell as follows (I believe he lives near Stanford): Hire a Stanford student to critique his article for its accuracy re the NYT article. This would cost about $100.

Oh, and be sure to report the results to your readership.

If Sowell doesn't want to do this, I'll contribute $10 toward hiring a smart student to do the job. Who else will contribute $10? I mean this for real.

Sowell's job performance at times is an embarrassment.

Another take on the family
I just finished reading a book from 1905 called "Heretics" by an English Author GK Chesterton. One set of heretics from his time that he responses to are people who want to re-engineer the family (so Sowell is correct in saying this struggle is centuries old).

Chesterton makes a great point that the family is not great because it is the most comfortable or "best" place to raise kids, as some people were saying in defense of the family. Instead he points out that the family is necessary because you don't get to chose it. In other words, by being born into a family you have to learn to get along with people who you may not have chosen. This develops character and teaches us how to love people who are not always lovable. It also teaches us that we are not always lovable.

He makes the point the families and small towns are places where men become men precisely because they have to learn to respect their neighbor. In a society where we only hand out with people that we like, then we never get challenged to think that we might be wrong.

By the way, it is also one reason we should all make the point to have friends who are not conservative or hold the same beliefs as us.

Marriage: Preservation or Re-invention?
Marriage: preservation, destruction, or reinvention?


I respect syndicated columnist Thomas Sowell, a Senior Fellow at Stanford's Hoover Institute. But I think he sometimes is guilty of assuming the worst about--and over-simplifying the opinions of--those he disagrees with.

For example, in his column Feb 6 column, he asserted a recent New York Times (NYT) article--alleging that more than half of American women now are not "living" with husbands--is yet another in a long line of NYT "liberal" opinion pieces masquerading as "news" stories. Sowell asserted the Times' "real" motive was to continue the long "liberal" tradition of trying to destroy the institutions of marriage and family, dating--according to Sowell--back to the first draft of the Communist Manifesto in the mid-19th century. For the moment, I'll assume Sowell could cite other specific examples to substantiate his opinion, and that the NYT may indeed be guilty of distorting statistical data in order to create a more "newsworthy" story in this case.

Nevertheless, I still think Sowell's critique--at least in this case--is as simplistic as the "agenda" he perceives in the NYT article. I think it would be far more productive for Sowell to assume the NYT might actually be concerned about modern factors impacting these tradtional institutions--including not only advances in women's rights and opportunities, but also even bigger demographic and other sociocultural changes--and engage NYT in a genuinely open-minded discussion. These changes include, but are not limited to:

- the dramatic increase in average life spans in most "developed" nations (for example, from about 50 years to about 75 years in the U.S. over the past century or so); and

- the dramatic increase in geographic mobility also over the past century or so--as evidenced by the decline of "extended" families living in close physical proximity, the resulting increase in smaller, more scattered "nuclear" families, and now fewer two-parent families--as more nations become more "developed."

While I suspect Sowell would primarily blame this--at least in the U.S.--on the cumulative negative impacts of "failed" New Deal and Great Society "welfare state" policies of the 20th century as well as increasing personal irresponsibility, I think he would also have to acknowledge that the economic growth and development resulting from our very "success" as a free market economy have also contributed to this. Furthermore, I think expecting rich mothers to stay home with their kids, while demanding poor mothers go to work--which some "conservatives" seem to suggest--exemplifies the problem rather than a solution.

In fact, I think the changes resulting from our very economic "success" over the past two centuries have been just as "radical" in their own way as Sowell's perception of the NYT agenda. I would also argue these changes have not all been simply a matter of individuals' each exercising "free will"--as I suspect Sowell might--but have been compelled to a large extent by the increasingly rapid transitions from hunting and gathering societies--the "norm" for most of human history, until the "invention" and gradual evolution of agricultural societies (starting roughly 11,000 years ago)--followed in increasingly rapid (and over-lapping) succession by the much more recent evolution of industrial and now still evolving "post-industrial" societies.

I think all of these changes have been driven initially by the interests of a powerful few rather than for the benefit of the many, and that most individuals have had widely varying degrees of "free will" when deciding how to respond to these changes--with most humans throughout history having a range of "free will" comparable to choosing between a rock and hard place. And while I don't think what we now call economic "globalization" is a new phenomenon, I do agree that it is even further accelerating the pace and magnitude of change.

It is in this sense that I also think we all have been (and are being) forced--both individually and collectively--to try to "successfully" adapt to an ever-increasing amount and rate of change. From this view, I think it is obvious why we might need and even be forced to "re-invent"--rather than “destroy“--marriage and the family--which were "invented" and "institutionalized" long ago when average lifespans were much shorter and most people did not move more than 10 miles from where they were born.

As a result, I would agree with Sowell if he thinks 1970s "no-fault" divorce "reforms" failed in the sense that many middle-aged women with little or no work experience other than being wives and mothers saw their standard of living permanently decline if they did not remarry for money. In fact, I personally experienced the unintended negative consequences of no-fault divorce--not directly, but through my parents. I increasingly had to help support my mother as she aged, which inadvertently partly impaired my own ability to get married and have children.

But I would still disagree with Sowell if he thinks proponents intended to "destroy" marriage rather than eliminate some of the pain and stress of divorce. I acknowledge that reinventing marriage can be as painful as trying to preserve tradtional marriage, but that the latter will get increasingly difficult--due, I think, to future economic growth and technological change. Furthermore, I think re-invention needs to incorporate not only longer life spans and advances in reproductive technology, but also the latest scientific biological and psychological research on marriage, mating, and child rearing to prepare us for living longer and possibly much more differently than most humans in the several million year history of our species.

This means I think no-fault marriage should be improved rather than discarded, while also believing (without hypocrisy in my mind) that everyone should also view divorce as a last resort and avoid pregnancy if not ready and able to raise children, while also acknowledging what I think is an unavoidable range and complexity of opinions on reproductive "rights" vs "responsibilities"--a context which may also perpetually change due to economically-driven "reproductive" technological change alone.

Similarly, I think it will be increasingly necessary to "re-invent" many other "traditional" political, socio-cultural and economic institutions and norms--especially if "unfettered" economic growth and development is our highest priority--and as paradoxical and/or disconcerting as that might seem to Sowell, some other "conservatives", some "liberals", and even myself at times. This is why I think many--including some so-called liberals and conservatives, if not Sowell himself--would also like to slow down the pace of economic-driven change at times.

Finally, this is also why I think I can understand how the accelerating pace of change can make it difficult for Sowell, as a syndicated columnist, to find ways to be "print worthy" on a regular basis--especially when combined with my feeling that "traditional" journalism itself has become as much or more a form of show "business" instead of its "traditional" roles as guarantor of at least the semblance of equal as well as free speech, and a non-governmental check on possible abuse of government and private power. Show business in the guise of journalism might explain why Sowell--as well as NYT--is at least occasionally guilty of using principle to at least partly disguise expediency, but thereby perpetuating polarizing, unproductive--and I think increasingly anachronistic, but unfortunately still "entertaining"--"us vs. them" arguments simply in order to meet a deadline and sell newspapers.

Muslims in U.S. military
On I somewhat (I think) related tangent, Report on Feb 8 ABC Evening News about Muslims in U.S. military pointed out that even highly-ranked Muslims at Pentagon received death threats and were subjected to other abuse--usually anonymously--after 9/11, which still persists today despite internal military efforts to stop. Story suggested this type of treatment was even worse for Muslim women in military, and focused on ordeal of one female in the Marine Corp in particular.

Values
The "feel good" and "we can make a buck" moral code is not working. We need to turn towards the values that work. This may not placate Islam but it will surely make this a better country.

For 21st Century Centrist --
No offense, but let me know when a Cliff Notes version of your posting is out.

Cliff Notes of Marriage by 21C Centrist
Unca Alby,

Point well taken. I wrote this for another purpose, and rather impulsively posted it--as is--to this blog when I discovered it through T. Sowell website. Otherwise, I may not have posted at all.

Best wishes

Other alternatives than the New York Tim
The collective bias of the Mainstream Media is fast leading to an exodus of readers to find other, less indoctrinal media for their news source.

The Times is leading the print media in this exodus, losing readership at (what is to them) an alarming rate. "All the news thats fit to print" has become such a parody if itself, the masthead should be removed, and replaced with "What we think!"

Part of the problem is liberal Journalism schools producing clones who all want to "make a difference." If you want to make a difference, JOIN THE PEACE CORP!

The answer is Citizen Journalism, the gathering and reporting of news by ordinary citizens. A new, and interesting excursion into Citizen Journalism can be found here: http://www.hinzsightreport.com

Citizen Journalists are being actively sought to report the news, even that news the New York Times does not see as fit to print!

Walter & Thomas for Prez & Veep
I see mallard fillmore is promoting Walter Williams for Prez....this is an idea I had years ago. I proposed that Mr. Sowell and Mr. Williams run for high office and I didn't care which was prez....they could trade off every couple months if they liked. These two guys make so much sense...people think I'm very smart when I quote them every day.

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