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Tuesday, January 02, 2007
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
The real issue at Duke
by Thomas Sowell
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In the wake of recent bombshell revelations in the Duke University "rape" case, even some of District Attorney Michael Nifong's supporters have started backing away from him.

It was not just that the head of a DNA laboratory testified under oath in December that he and Nifong both knew back in April that there was no DNA from any of the Duke University lacrosse players found on the body of the stripper who accused them of rape -- or even that the DNA of other men were found in her underwear and in intimate areas of her body.

What was really damning was that he and Nifong had agreed to keep this fact secret, despite requirements that exculpatory evidence be turned over to the defense. Moreover, last May District Attorney Nifong filed a statement saying that the prosecution "is not aware of any additional material or information which may be exculpatory in nature."

But he already knew what the DNA evidence was before he signed that statement.

The leading newspaper in town, which had supported Nifong in its editorials before these new revelations, now called his actions "flawed" and "inexplicable."

Nifong's actions are inexplicable only if you assume that his purpose was to get at the truth about what actually happened at the party where the stripper claimed to have been raped.

That assumption has never been made in this column. From day one, I have never believed that this case was about rape, about the Duke lacrosse players or about the "exotic dancers" or strippers.

District Attorney Nifong's actions are perfectly consistent and logical from start to finish, once you see that this case is about Nifong's own career.

Let us go back to square one. Where was Nifong before this case came along?

He had worked in the District Attorney's office for years and was appointed interim District Attorney himself only after the previous District Attorney left to become a judge. Now Nifong faced a tough election against a woman he had once fired and who would undoubtedly fire him if she became District Attorney.

Where would that leave Nifong? Out on the street at an age when most people are not likely to be starting a new career. His pension as well as his job could be in jeopardy. Moreover, his opponent was favored to win the election.

Then along came the Duke University "rape" case, like a deliverance from heaven.

Politically, the case had everything: white jocks from affluent families at a rich and prestigious university versus a black woman who was a student at a far poorer and less distinguished black institution nearby.

Above all, there were black voters who could swing the election Nifong's way if he played the race card and conjured up all the racial injustices of the past, which he would now vow to fight against in the present.

Who cared whose DNA was where? This case could save Nifong's career. There was nothing "inexplicable" about what he did. Despicable yes, inexplicable no.

His inflammatory outbursts against the Duke students in the media are not inexplicable. Neither was his failure to follow standard procedures in presenting the accuser with a lineup that included only white Duke lacrosse players.

The standard procedure of including in a lineup people who are not suspects in the case is intended to test the accuser's credibility. But why would he risk having the accuser's credibility tested before his election?

It was not a question of winning the case. It was a question of winning the election. As for the case, that was not scheduled to come to trial until a year later.

If you cared about justice, you would want to go to trial much sooner, either to nail the Duke students if they were guilty or exonerate them if they were not. But nothing suggests that this was Nifong's agenda.

Now that so many of his misdeeds have been so widely publicized, Nifong's agenda has to include keeping his job and avoiding disbarment or even being prosecuted himself.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Just another
case of a politician seizing power at the expense of all involved. Just how many lives has he ruined for his political career? I hope he burns for this.

Lessons we should learn from Duke

1) Associating with immoral people (strippers) can get you into hot water.

2) Next time rent a DVD. Those people are unsavory as well, but they can't make false accusations about you.

3) If you lie about rape, you will be exposed by DNA or lack thereof.

4) D.A.s should be certain that they have some evidence and a credible witness before they set out to ruin the lives of citizens.

5) Government should consider reinstating some of the old blue laws. It helps to protect us, by clearly defining the shady side of life, so we are warned if we choose to dabble there.

The end justifies the means.
Regardless of what insignificant procedural circumventions he might have employed, Nifong should be exonerated from charges that he made errors because his intentions were good. Nifong saw another case whereby whites should add another reason to hang their heads in shame, and he did his best to see that fair play would be delivered to the black community.

Through Nifong, the poor black community finally has a DA that will stand up to rich whites. As for the Duke students, it matters not that they might have been dealt a taste of injustice, for their prosecution is payback for similar injustices performed by whites against blacks for so many years. Innocent blacks were once railroaded, so it is only appropriate that some innocent whites suffer the same treatment. Otherwise, those in the white community will never be able to offer relief to their conscious for the evil things the white race has done throughout time.

Nifong is a hero in the black community, and deserves to keep the job he was duly elected to hold. To remove him from office would just be a slap in the face to the the black community that put him there, and such a removal would be just another example of black disenfranchisement. As described by Reverend Jackson, blacks are kept away from the voting booths by hoses and dogs whenever it comes time to cast a ballot. It is a shame that when blacks finally manage to fight their way into the booth to cast a vote, their desires are overturned by trumped up charges by those that will do anything to protect rich white kids.

It's time for the white community to stop these rascist assaults against the black community by attacking Nifong. Let him prosecute the Duke students as he sees fit. The only travesty will be if a "not guilty" verdict is read.

How Sad
How sad that someone feels that he has to ruin other people's lives to chalk himself up.

Assume he did not prosecute..... Some would say that he is doing a cover up, that he is falsifying evidence to save rich white people at the expense of poor black people..... He was screwed either way.

I hope these young guy's...
...have learned a lesson. Morals are designed for the preservation of mankind. These punks have had to learn a little enforced humility. The worst way to learn about humility. Who was it that said,"humble yourself and you will be exhalted. Exhalt yourself and you will be humbled"? Best place for them after they get this cleared up would be a few years in the military as buck privates.
As for Nifong? Well we've been enduring that kind of tyranny down here in Texas under Travis Co DA Ronny Earl for years. He's much worse than Nifong because he is wily, crafty and smart. He knows how to use and skirt the law for political gain (but 1 day he'll get his, too). But Nifong appears to be a real bone-head.
Some NC Congressman has requested that the Justice Dept investigate Nifong but I doubt they will. That just wouldn't fit in with our Presidents "new tone" method of dealing w/the opposition. DD
http://streetlevel.townhall.com

LD
"...blacks are kept away from the voting booths by hoses and dogs whenever it comes time to cast a ballot. It is a shame that when blacks finally manage to fight their way into the booth..."

The satire is too funny. I did get a good laugh on this one you wrote. You need to write a book.

MountainRose - - "Blue Laws"
quoth MountainRose: "1) Associating with immoral people (strippers) can get you into hot water."

WHY?

ANYone can be falsely accused of rape, or any other crime. As a matter of fact, it happens all the time. DA's are supposed to have the good sense and skill to separate the wheat from the chaff.

The only reason this case had any "legs" at all was exactly as Dr. Sowell described. It fit with the liberal anti-wealth anti-white agenda.

These kids could have been accused of rape by a black woman on the janitorial staff, and it would have fit even better. Nifong would have a platinum mine -- but instead, he got this case, which was merely a silver mine. But beggers can't be choosers, huh?




In this day and age, you can be accused of all sorts of heinous crimes, from rape, to child molestation 20 years ago, to homicide. Your good name and reputation can be shredded to pieces, and YOU have to spend time and money to clear yourself.

District attorneys are supposed to get to the TRUTH, and prosecute based on the TRUTH. Not on politically correct fairy tales.

District attorneys are supposed to be the GOOD GUYS.



I think the Duke boys have a clear-cut lawsuit in the makings right now, and/or Nifong needs to face serious penalties. He caused them all sorts of unnecessary grief and dragged their names through the mud. This is abuse of power at its worst.

Nifong needs to be strung up by his short hairs. This could happen to anybody, anywhere -- and the people in the business of policing need to be put on notice that they can't get away with this kind of garbage.

And even if Nifong *is* strung up, there are *still* going to be people who believe the Duke boys were guilty, and that the only reason they weren't put in jail is because they're white and wealthy. Reputations are fragile things: once broken, you can never really put them all back together again.




And *you're* worried about "blue laws".

That's like a guy who gets shot during a convenience store robbery while buying cigarettes, and you're going to lecture him on how he should have quit smoking anyway.

Sheesh!




The corrupt da
is not an exception in our country. If you don't have money to defend yourself don't expect justice.
Good thing or these Duke boys is that they have rich parents who can afford to defend them and get them out of this mess they are in.

The boys should not have played with fire. They got burnt and will not be able to come out of the ashes of their not so smart activities.

But, hiring a stripper is a far cry from raping one.
This DA wanted the votes of the black community to stay in office.

Corrupt politicians obviously have no lows to which they will stoop to hold onto power.

pitbull
I think you have it wrong. I don't think what nifong did was to benefit the black community. He doesn't care about "righting wrongs" of the blacks.

This is pure and simple political corruption to keep himself in office. He has made a big mistake.

Loyal Democrat
"blacks are kept away from the voting booths by hoses and dogs whenever it comes time to cast a ballot."

THIS INJUSTICE MUST STOP!

Thankfully, the democrats rightfully take power soon from the selected repugnikkan government. Comrade Pelosi and Commissar Rhodam-Clinton will restore power to the People and make sure that hoses and dogs are turned only on white heterosexual male voters, active members of the military, and other racists and thought criminals.

Nifong is a moral mutant
Hey gang, that's the inherently evil and inevitably corrupting One Ring of "government" Power for you. Nifong is merely playing the role of Gollum in the Duke lacross drama.
I'm with Peppermint. Nifong should throw his pathetic and evil little Gollum self into the fires of Mount Doom right along with the One Ring.
Dr. Sowell is smack dab on point. Question is, what are the rest of us lemmings doing following and obeying moral mutants like Nifong? Hmmm?! Gollum, gollum!

Contact the NC State Bar
I urge everyone who has followed this case and has concluded that Nifong is corrupt to contact the North Carolina State Bar (www.ncbar.com) and demand his dismissal and disbarment as I have done. This man is an unprincipled criminal who has no business conducting business in a courtroom in any capacity.

These liberal democrat prosecutors have got to be publicly opposed and ousted whenever possible if we are to maintain any kind of integrity in the judiciary of this nation. Otherwise these malicious prosecutions of the type this case represents, including the border cases involving the agents and many similar such, are to be curtailed.

A real question
I know that Dr. Sowell has followed this more closely than I but I thought I saw a report last week that Nifong had been brought up on charges by the bar association or some judicial review board or something. But I didn't pay it much attention, unfortunately and can't find it back. Does anyone else have any info on that? I believe Dr. Sowell's analysis of this case is right on point. Justice would be for Nifong to be taken down on this.

Nifong - Give him the hook
Thanks to Grubby for reminding us all to get actively involved. Contact the North Carolina Bar, and ask them to give Nifong the hook.

Thanks to Loyal Democrat for the excellent compilation of socialist/Marxist rhetoric.
Satire is a powerful weapon for showcasing the enemies of freedom.

Now mind your Mama
and stay away from Black women! That's the sad conclusion to this disgusting job of railroading -- that it will feed the beliefs of the people who believe that Blacks and Whites should not mingle because this kind of thing is inevitable. And as I found out by the time I left Atlanta, if you are not a racist when you start mingling your affairs with theirs, you will be when you leave off.

Every time something like this occurs, and it's more frequent than you probably know, it reinforces the line between White and Black and gives both more reasons to avoid one another. Keep this up, Mr. Nifong, and segregation will return to the Old Confederacy. Or perhaps that is in fact what you want....

It'd be an interesting reverse twist, wouldn't it?

As for those who say "keep your nose clean and you won't be charged" -- do note that one of the young men charged in this travesty can prove he was not anywhere near the frat house when this alleged crime occurred, and it didn't do him a bit of good. When they're out to get you, they'll get you.

Another thought
Throughout this whole thing I was and still am trying to work out the stripper's motive for doing this. Sure she could have been thinking of money but from whom? and how much? Publicity maybe? Infamy?? Its not clear to me what she would stand to gain. Its certainly not guaranteed that she would gain financially. I can not help but speculate that it is as least possible that Nifong put her up to this! Certainly he had a lot to gain. I hasten to emphasis that this is pure unadulterated speculation on my part and nothing more. But it does seem to fit well.

Mr. Right - here's your answer:
Yes, the NC State Bar, which licenses and disciplines the state's lawyers, has filed a 17 page complaint against Nifong charging 4 violations of professional conduct, including expressing an opinion that a crime had occurred and the defendents were guilty and for prejudicing the legal processs against them and accused Nifong of "dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation". In addition, it was just announced that Michael Page, a Durham County commissioner, after the release of evidence as much as exonerating the Duke Lacrosse players, was quoted as saying "It's not going in our favor at this point", the word "our" meaning the African American community, which Page represents. In its complaint, the State Bar recounted that Nifong had immediately after the story of the alleged rape came out, said that "the Lacross players were a bunch of hooligans" and said he wondered "why one needs an attorney if one was not charged and has not done anything wrong". Based on Nifong's inappropriate comments this soon after the accuser came forward, campus women's groups posted the names of the entire Lacrosse team demanding action and of course, the wimp Duke president and most of the Duke faculty immediately demanded the players all be disciplined, and the Duke president had the Lacrosse coach fired and the entire schedule of games cancelled. It is to be hoped that the parents of the accused players will institute fat lawsuits against Nifong, Duke University and President Broadhead.

AudiR10..
It's amazing at how Democrats are fanning the flames of racism vs trying to eliminate racism.

Waco proves your final paragraph. Democrats, if they haven't got any real evidence on you will have you murdered.

Enough

This:

"Moreover, last May District Attorney Nifong filed a statement saying that the prosecution "is not aware of any additional material or information which may be exculpatory in nature."

But he already knew what the DNA evidence was before he signed that statement. "

should be enough for a charge of perjury against Mr. Nifong.

Many cases have been thrown out on lesser technicalities than this

Pitbull
Hey, some great points...and about your neighbor...you really should print LD's posts and slip that inside the newspaper you borrow.(;

I live in the triangle area,and,it certainly was all about power. What the girl thought she could gain is a direct result of her culture still teaching and blaming white people for all the wrongs suffered some 145 years ago. This is what politically correct in our schools and society is creating. An absolute lack of moral conscience,no responisbility for the choices made. It is always somebody else's fault. Nifong should fry,those boys still deserve to be treated with respect and the girl?She should have her children taken from her, and go to jail with Nifong....

Nifong needs to be charged and tried
according to the laws he disregarded and Yes, The Duke LaCrosse Team and Coach need to be awarded lawsuits against the School, Nifong the DA's office, and the Really the "DRIVE BY MEDIA" which was complicit with the smear campaign waged by Mr. Nifong.
I say to the accused GO for the DEEP POCKETS.
It is time to teach the media Thugs a lesson.

Loyal Democrap sounds like Kimberly
with a new handle and hits early and runs away like "she" did as well. Anybody else see a pattern here?

Unintended Consequences
Nifong's handling of this case was unquestionably reprehensible. For a DA to publicly pursue a case for blatantly political motives is something deserving of serious punishment. There is, however an aspect of this case which makes Nifong's offenses far worse than merely political. The message sent by this travesty is to all real victims of sexual abuse that they will be discouraged from reporting the crimes for fear that they will be tarred with the same brush that besmirched the accuser in this case. And people wonder why rape is one of the most underreported of all crimes.

Mr Right
Yes, the NC Bar is going after Nifong, all I remember is for his statements to the press. In my opinion he should be made to pay all legal bills of anyone involved in this matter, after he is disbarred. He is scum, and the black voters who were reeled in by his actions are not much better. I find it hard to believe that they won't eventually go after his handling of the DNA and the lineups, we'll have a good chance to see how lawyers stick together to protect their own.

To all
I don't think Loyal Democrat is joking. Scary, huh?

Is Loyally Dim the face of Dems?
Does the end really justify the means, LD? (01:13 post) If you really believe that and you represent the Dem party, this country is in peril. Think about the actions that might result of carried to the extreme:

-We might see preferential placement of inferior students and employees, simply because of ancient injustices.
-We might see an indicted President elude impeachment conviction simply because our 401Ks are doing well.
-We might see politicians reversing their steadfast positions on national security issues simply because an election is approaching.
-We might see the wealthy minority persecuted by a greedy majority.
-We might see judges 'manufacture' new laws based more upon their personal opinions than on the original intent of established law.
-We might see innocent lives terminated for convenience or parts.
-We might see government seize and re-appropriate personal property to the highest bidder.
-We might see a corrupt and valueless political party resort to race-baiting, class warfare and demonization to achieve political power.

But wait! This must be a parody. No one with a moral compass really believes that the ends justify the means. Certainly no one would never admit it.

Loyal Democrat
is pure satire. The writer perfectly summarizes and encapsulates those positions that conservatives routinely ascribe to Democrats. To the extent that Democrats actually hold the positions that LD writes here at TH, no Democrat who has the political sense God gave a turnip would actually give such positions voice.

I don't know of any Democrat who actually holds the very stereotypical (from a conservative's point of view) positions about which LD writes.

Don't feed the trolls!

Dig Deep
Mr. Sowell is an American of African descent. His view is not a lost echo in an empty attic, there are many Black Americans that see the issue exactly as Mr. Sowell. Being a racist is offensive to the vast majority of our people--Black, Brown, or White. There are literally millions of warm and wonderful friendships among the races in this country. The ignorant, ill informed, lame, and lazy may not be fully integrated into our Society but the vast majority of all races understand and assimilate as one people. That is our present and our future--a few idiots like Nifong and Jesse Jackson are a dying breed. Hug someone of another race today, wish them a happy 2007, enjoy what is left of the Bowl Games, and the Judicial system erase Nifong and thwart his misguided ambitions.

To Loyal Dem
You were being sarcastic right? Even for sarcasm, that was over the top. Do you have even one actual event you could link us to?
If there is any justice, not only will Nifong end up out of a job, he should be sent to prison. He and other lawyers need to be aware that justice is a real thing, not to be spit on.

Nifong needs jail time
As a life long North Carolinian I am ashamed and disgusted by this entire event. This man used the system to keep his job by using race politics. He says that is not what he was doing, but unless he thinks we are all as stupid as the lot who elected him, he would be sorely mistaken.
I have maintained from the beginning this was a lie. As soon as footage of the guy at the ATM, the cab driver's testimony, and the accusers many varied versions of the events came to light it was evident this was all a farce.
The facts are, Nifong never interviewed the accuser, she had made this same claim of being raped by three white men in the past, she got pregnant two months AFTER the alleged rape, and now she can't remember if she was penetrated at all, which DNA evidence proved she was penetrated plenty BEFORE the alleged rape.
As much as Nifong deserve to go to jail so does this fine upstanding 28 year old college student/unwed mother/stripper. Considering she has made this same claim in the past and filing a false police report is a crime, I see no reason to wait for a third strike.
The citizens of Durham may have made a very expensive mistake by electing Nifong. I hope they have to pay til it hurts.

Re DA Nifong, etc
The plot line as Mr. Sowell presents certainly is logical, given human nature. It could be a "Shakespearean" play on the dangers of unbridled desires of all kinds- no winners here, only peoples lives messed up, some more guilty than others. (How guilty are Nifong's children, the cab driver of the Duke student, a student or two who went to the party perhaps not knowing what was to take place, people on the lacrosse team who didn't go to the party, the lacrosse team coach, and his family, all of the rest of us needing to deal with stereotypes of different kinds?)
Years ago the cries of the Civil Rights movement were things like, "Justice for All, or No Justice at All", and the speeches included desires such as "a person is judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin". I think those things are still true, and all suffer when we as a society do not humbly seek to make them real.

pitbull
Reminds me of the Walter Matthau (sp?) movie where he secretly syphoned gas from his mileage conscious neighbor's car for a few days and then drove him nuts by putting extra gas in the car. You've got to get some copies of the Washington Post and the LA Times to add to the Terrorist Times he's now getting.

Are you Kidding me
I was reading the comments of Loyal Democrat and I started laughing. Surely this was someone making a joke and when I got to the last paragraph it would be exposed. Imagine my surprise when I finally figure out that this is an actual post. The makers handle of Loyal Democrat is a perfect discription of why the Afro American community votes over 90 % for dems and what a wonderful job they have done of creating an entitlement society. Must be a leftover juror from the OJ Simpson trial.

Nifong
Nifong should be jailed, or at least disbarred for his antics.

Ingman
No, he was not screwed. He was placed in a touchy high-visibility situation where the truth, clearly and plainly told, would save his uh reputation. If he lost the election, bad luck. Doesn't happen to incumbents enough to keep them responsible to the electorate.

I Can Only Hope
...that women who cry rape receive MORE scrutiny.

Peppermint
Whenever i see LD has posted i head there first. He/she is great. Have you noticed that the Lefties stay well clear of LD's posts? Liberalgoodman came out in support of LD once, if my memory is working this morning. So i got to laugh twice.
The kicker is that every wild statement from LD, such as actions to intimidate and physically prevent black voters from voting, i have seen elsewhere on TH. Granted, hoses and dogs were not specifically mentioned, but Bull Connors, the original hose and dog fellow, was mentioned not too long ago. It would be wonderful if LD would give us his position on neocons, some of the conspiracy theories, minimum wage, and immigration. Some of this stuff has been covered, but its still on the front burner and his input would be welcome here.

Stripper
I've said from the beginning that the dancer/stripper/??? probably got beat up by her p**p for not bringing home enough money.

Comment

LD may be satire or he may be serious, I lean toward satire.

BUT... If you think the thoughts are over the edge, take a cruise through moveon.org or DailyKos or several of the other "progressive" websites, which will make LD look like John Birch or Ronald Reagan.

UncaAlby, Rose
Now don't get into a spat. There is enough truth in each of your positions to allow for recognition of it. A person does not have to ask for trouble to find himself up to here in it. And if he does ask for it he is more likely to get it. And by the way, i have attended 3 celebrations in the last couple years where there were strippers. These were held in private rooms in public places and were racy, but with no chance of anything as serious as a rape charge. I was not part of the entertainment committee. I got over interest in strippers after my experience with Val Chessie in Juarez in 1954. After Val, its been all disappointingly downhill.

A Comment on DA's
I was formerly an elected DA in another state (not NC although I live here now). I have been watching this case with great interest. As a woman who was the first elected DA in my district out west, I really felt for Freda Black when she lost to this maroon Nifong. She deserved the appt by the outgoing DA who she had just helped win the Mike Peterson case (the nationally televised staircase murder case), but instead the good ole boy appointed another good ole boy to take his place. Freda would have won but for the small portion of black voters who voted for the black lawyer running who had NEVER practiced criminal law. So, there is a lot of stupidity going on in Durham. But anyone who lives in NC knows that Durham is a racist mess. And the rampant crime makes it a dangerous city as well. Some of the murder cases that come out of there are amazingly weird.
Now for Nifong. He has been violating the canons of conduct for DA's since this case began. The fact that he would collude with the DA lab tech to withhold exculpatory evidence will, I predict, will the seal on his doom. As an officer of the court, he cannot "commit a fraud upon the court" which he has done by signing a document stating that he is unaware of any further exculpatory evidence. By doing so, he has commited fraud, violated the ethical code, violated the constitutional rights of the accused, and committed perjury. He is in big trouble. I hope the NC bar takes care of this by disbarring him, and he then needs to be prosecuted. I say I hope the NC bar takes care of it. I became a little disillusioned with the bar taking care of its own after thousands of people at Bill O'Reilly's request filed grievances against the two defense lawyers who represented Westerfield. If you remember, it came out after trial that the two lawyers had tried to bargain with the DA to take the death penalty off the table in exchange for information on where the little girl's body was. The police found the body on their own, so the DA did not accept that deal. But then, during the trial, the two lawyers not only accused the parents of being at fault, they called an expert insect witness to "prove" that the body must have been placed there during a time that Westerfield was locked up and he was therefore innocent. The CA bar refused to take any action at all.
As a DA, it was my greatest honor to serve with the other elected DA's in my state who were the finest public servants it was ever my pleasure to know. A DA bears a great burden for the safety of the community, and a great task of seeking justice for all, especially the accused. People are always surprised when I tell them that the DA's main duty is to see that the accused gets a fair trial. Nifong has certainly not done this. He is a shame to his profession.
While watching from my university spot, I was not surprised to see the Duke president and faculty howl for the boys' heads on a stick. That is what white liberal academics do. They see everything as race oppression. This case, stripped to its basics, is just another rape case of she said, he said. In those cases, one must always ascertain the credibility of the accuser. To read that Nifong, for months, had not bothered to interview the accuser, told me everything I needed to know about his ethics. I hope for DA's everywhere that he is dealt with as he deserves to be, and that the profession will be exonerated from this vicious smear. It has been my experience that every time the race card is played in the criminal justice system, the justice part disappears.

TAP001
I too see a similarity between the posts of "Kimberly" and LD. I am still trying to decide if LD is simply someone with no life or someone who feels there needs to be more rancor on these boards.

I have some liberal friends in the academy who espouse similar views, but LD seems wayyy too eager to distill all this pap down to its stupidest essence. Hence there is no credibility, but his/her posts are always functional as comic relief.

Nifong
Unless Nifong is disbarred this entire event will further help to establish that attorneys are among the most corrupt of people.

myths
1) All white, male lacrosse players from Long Island are rich.

I grew up on Long Island, my friend was actually the director of operations for Major League Lacrosse. These players are not exactly lawyers and doctors now. They get paid only so much for each game.

I'm sure their parents had money to get good lawyers. But did the alleged rape victim have a lot of money? No, she had her skin color and genitalia, and that's all the currency she needed to get lawyers on her side.

2) If you play with fire, you'll eventually get burned.

Sometimes a big fiery meteor just screams down from the sky and hits you on the head. The argument, "if you didn't do this, perhaps this wouldn't have happened to you" is crap.

I suppose all women who are raped are raped because they're out in little dresses and miniskirts?

Imagine if someone said to the black stripper, "well, if you hadn't been a sex worker, did drugs and stripped for rich white guys, you wouldn't have gotten raped." There would be a s***storm of controversy around that supposedly racist comment. No matter what, SHE'S THE VICTIM. It's sad.

3) All crimes committed by white people against black people are hate crimes and all crimes committed by black people against white people are just the manifestations of society failing the black man.

I don't think I need to elaborate on this one.

and some attorneys
are among the noblest of us.

Chuck
All the stripper wanted was to punish the frat boys for malicious treatment. Can't be sure of anything is this mess, but there are indications she was jeered and called nasty names. Cool thinking is not indicated as one of Mangum's strong points, and she may have had chemical help in reaching the state of mind she was in as she left the frat house. I doubt she had any idea of the hullabaloo she was raising. For that matter, i don't think Nifong did either. Or the frat boys. The tragedy is as Audio notes, the situation reinforces the separation of races in our country. With 13 percent of the country believing Elvis is still alive (or so they say when asked by pollsters) there are plenty of people out there who will decide to believe almost any side of any tale, no matter how unlikely. Bitter folks on both sides will use this incident to increase bitterness.

Randy,
another bogus case would be the Rolando Cruz case her in IL. The DA in this county, who at the time was just the lead prosecutor from the office, is poison. He kept GOP Topinka from winning the governorship because his reputation preceeds him.

The Cruz case was prosecuted 3 times, the guy was on death row for 13 years (overturned 3 years ago). Sherrifs lied on the stand, stretched evidence etc...Like sadaam, Nifong will meet his end but most likely at the botton of a bottle, a broken man. I hope you are not offended that most people do not believe prosecutors are members of an honorable profession.

Way to much misconduct on a regular basis by too many. As they say," one bad apple".

Re: Loyal Democrat
Well I guess Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson wasted a scholarship that could have been used on a more respectable person that doesn't flatback for a living and then lie about it. What is a real disgrace is the young lives and the families that have been ruined publicly and financially by a melodramatic scum attorney that just happens to be the district attorney. Where are all of the chanting blacks crying for justice over the wronged sister now Bro. They're distancing themselves just like the brother in the watermellon patch that spotted the snake and yet you still have the brass ones to preach your victimization smear. You're willing to convict three innocent youths for what you perceive as some injustice done to your race even though it is a gutter crawling hooker that has brought these charges against them without the benefit of evidence. Remember Tawana Brawley Bro? Here is the whitemans' worst fear...another preganant burden on society producing more spawn with short heels. If we only knew way back when what we know now we'd have picked our own cotton!

Why all this rightousness indignation...
..about "rich, white kids," hiring strippers to perform at a college party?

Do you really believe that "only" rich, white kids engage in this type of partying? If you do, you live in a cave! These things go on, weekend after weekend, all over the civilized world. And guess what? These types of parties are hosted by "black" fraternities as well.

This is common in college settings and never makes news unless some a**hole DA has an agenda to further his career, not to mention that the MSM delights in running a story like this over and over and over. It fits right into their game plan as well; sticking it to anyone who is successfull or of the so called privileged class, unless of course, it happens to be a notible Democrat, then it would be, cover it up as much as possible.
I bet that if this so-called rape scandal happened to a bunch of Grambling football players, you would probably wouldn't be aware of it at all.

Drewrush
"Rand"y sounds pretty cool. Anybody remember the old radio show "Mr. District Attorney" which started with the star reciting his DA oath? The last part went something like "It shall be my duty not only to prosecute lawbreakers to the full limit of the law, but also to protect with equal vigor those innocent of any crime". The good guys always won in those days, and moreover, they were always good. At least on the radio.

"Rand"y is right
Nifong should be disbarred and prosecuted.

The defendants should file a civil suit against Nifong, Durham, Duke U. and the "stripper".

One thing, though: Rand-y posted, "Some of the murder cases that come out of there [Durham] are amazingly weird."

I've heard of many criminal cases that were unusual or strange or incredibly stupid, but not "weird". It seems a strange adjective to use in a murder case (sorta "X-File").

Shouldn't make light of Loyal Democrat
It would be easy to make light of "Loyal Democrat" and their beliefs. It would be easy to dismiss LD's position as a minority view or even as satire. To do so would be wrong. I can assure you that many liberals belief what LD stated. Some on the Left actually know better but are more than willing to prolong the lies.

Remember a lie told often enough and long enough soon becomes the truth. [paraphrasing Lenin}

The Thing Sowell Doesn't Get
All District Attorneys are on a parallel with Nifong. It is the nature of the elected office holding beast. District Attorneys DO NOT CARE about a person's innocence or guilt. They only care about whether or not they can obtain a conviction to parade out next election. Assistant DA's are even more cold blooded because all they are interested in is getting a conviction and getting another gold star by their name on the chart in the DA's office. Perry Mason does not ride to the rescue of innocent victims of justice miscarriage. The innocent usually go to prison. England did away with the office of district attorney many years ago because they saw it was more political than just. District Attorneys, like Congressmen and Senators and all other elected officials have to show the public they have been working hard for them during their tenure in office and, just like the other poiticians, they don't give a ghoddamn if they ruin someone's life if it helps them get reelected.

Nifong
was just taking his marching data from The People's Republic of Boulder DA Alex Hunter. The one who did everything to obfuscate the investigators whenever they got too close to FOB John and Patsey Ramsey.

Fletch
You state exactly my take on LD. Every once in a while i urge caution in expressing these conclusions. As soon as your opinion is unanimous, the fun will likely be over.

Fletch
Nice to see you posting again, man! There were some economic threads going over the weekend that could have used your touch...

The sad state of North Carolina
I have lived in NC for 50 years under a government that had many good years, but now this one-party system has us at the point of ruin.

Nifong is an example of how politicians close ranks and pretend everything is OK - "we are in charge." Well one party does NOT work, whether Mao, Stalin, or Sadaam. Under a 2 party system Nifong would have backed off months ago.

I shudder to think what will happen if this deteriorating political condition does not turn around for Tarheels.

Loyal Democrat's
tongue-in-cheek parodies of liberal posts are way too realistic for some of the less discerning conservative posters.

In that vein: NIFONG FOR US ATTORNEY GENERAL!!!!! Alberto Gonzales isn't liberal enough. We need a new AG who will uphold the constitutional rights of ALL illegal aliens, terrorists (captured and free) and black criminals who have been convicted and incarcerated illegally!!!! FREE ALL BLACK AND MUSLIM INMATES NOW!!!!!!!

I always
suspected that Michael Nifong was the usual run-of-the-mill democrat leech in search of personal aggrandizement masquerading as public service. Dr. Sowell's column demonstrates that Nifong's rich-Duke-kids-in-custody machination was not too-far removed from William Jefferson's (D-La) 90 grand hidden in his freezer. Both were diabolical. Nifong's was political power; Jefferson's was greed.

Suppose that the stripper making the allegations had been white, and that she had been enrolled in a lesser school than Duke, and that those against whom the allegations were made had been black Duke basketball stars - does any body then believe that Nifong would've lambasted those students in the press as "Hooligans" and "Thugs"? With an election to be won, and the black votes needed to do it, Nifong would've thrown the white stripper to the dogs, i.e., to O'Reilly's secular-progressive pitbulls of the press where her entire sexual history would been made public along with her name, and the completely exculpatory DNA evidence.

Nifong's a North Carolina Tarheel, and he ought to be tarred and feathered and run out of his DA's job on a pole.

Loyal Democrat...
... is as reprehensible as Nifong. Paraody or not, spewing such inanity is reprehensible. Rape is bad. No one deserves to be raped. I'm certain she didn't choose that. But. She chose to be a stripper/hooker. She chose to take money to strip for a party late at night for a group of college athletes. She chose to have sexual relations wi' numerous men prior to taking her clothes off for money late at night for an off campus party of college athletes. And, yes. She chose to file false allegations when things went awry. Sorry, folks - call me a traitor to my gender, but women do NOT have to choose to be strippers or hookers in 1007, 1507, and particularly in 2007. There are myriad respectable jobs. Get one. Get a job you won't be embarrassed to tell your children about. Get one which won't place you in such precarious circumstances. Boys will be boys and they have to answer for their own bad choices, but girls don't HAVE to help them by foisting culpability on them for theirs.

some thoughts..
You know who I want to see do her 'rage' thing is that brunette, Wendy Somebody who defended this skanky ho. When is common sense and common decency going to take over this disease of Political Correctness? I've HAD it. I don't care what color she is, she's a drunked tramp who is now about to give birth...and I bet she doesn't know who the dad is. Poor kid.


When will this be over?
Why are we still reading about the Duke non-rape case? At least this DA is being brought out in the public's view. His strategies were sure to include forcing the defense to submit to a plea bargin so he could have chaulked up another win. That will change for sure now that he's witheld evidence, or the lack there of. I hope the true "victims" that have been on the defensive for months end up owning most of that county, the DAs personal property, and what ever they can get from Duke University. This case has been a prime example of how unjust our justice system has become.

Intentions justify everything/anything
Observation on LD's post:
He labeled it "ends justify the means," yet when he defended the point held often by liberals, it's titled incorrectly.
"Regardless of what insignificant procedural circumventions he might have employed, Nifong should be exonerated from charges that he made errors because his intentions were good...he did his best to see that fair play would be delivered to the black community."
In this case, the ends were actually criminal. Yet simply because his intentions are good its ok.
Funny how that logic can be so convincing to a liberal, even when criminal activity is the result as long as intentions are along the party line.

Mr. Nifong is despicable
Imagine, ruining the lives of 3 young men, based on flimsy evidence. Just to save his own career.

AND, this is yet another reason for men to stay away from strippers...I bet those guys are cursing the day they went to that party...

AND, here is another thought - if strippers are acting provocative and sexy - why should anyone be surprised if aroused man assaults her? If she doesn't want to be touched, she shouldn't be acting like a tramp around a bunch of young, drunken college guys. I think women who engage in that type of behavior are ASKING for it.

Then they cry, RAPE, RAPE, RAPE!!!!! And it's all the guy's fault.

As for those unfortunate Duke guys, why even give the appearance of impropriety? I'm sure they are innocent, but they wouldn't be in this hot water if they hadn't attended that party.

I'm sure I'm going to get blasted for what I just said, but I stand by it 100%.

Reminds me of the Kobe Bryant thing...what on earth was that young woman doing in a hotel room with a man she doesn't know?!

Cherokee
I have to agree with you. Many posters are saying that this is a Parody and find some humor in it. Perhaps I've lost my sense of humor when it comes to dealing with Liberals. Even Fake ones! I find nothing worth praising in LD's posts. As you say "reprehensible."

Loyal Democrat writes:

The end justifies the means...............
I have long suspected LD of being a conservative stooge,or some kind of bizzarro universe refugee.I can't take such idiocy seriously,thanx LD for my daily belly laugh.Keep up the good work!

Sadly
this prosecutor is not the only politician who will do or say anthing to get elected. Consider, during preelection, the search for dirt and if not any can be found, the manufactoring of dirt to defeat an opponent. Issues if importance to the country no longer matter very much if a flaw in character or behavior is found than magnified by a stupid, lazy, partisan press. (Why does anyone read papers any more?)

Based on LDs logic..
considering the acts of Nero, Hitler, Reno & those who murdered 13-year-old Jesse Dirkhising, it would make sense to execute anyone displaying homosexual tenencies, don't you think LD?

The end justifies the means....

I am certain that Loyal Democrat is giggling over all of this, though in the past (s)he has reacted negatively directly to me. It's that "title" of his/her post. I cannot shake the suspicion that this person (as I have noted before) actually believes the shyte they spew, because this is the number one battle cry of all leftists and liberals, tied up with a neat little bow. It invariably covers a multitude of their sins, whether of omission or commission.

Indeed, LD could never explain how any sense of justice derives from such a morally bankrupt philosophy. It is the very antithesis of fairness and justice. The fact that this person continues to prowl these boards, whether seriously or in jest, proves that he or she has no intellectual honesty or integrity, and certainly no courage.

Loyal Democrat
Loyal Democrat is joking? In the words of Vizzini from the Princess Bride, "YOU'D LIKE TO THINK THAT, WOULDN'T YOU!!" You just can handle it when brave progressyves speak truth to your corrupt kkkapitalist power. You can't handle the truth.

This is nothing more than a Klan Lynchin
Seriously, switch black and white through all of the actors and go back a century.

You had young black men falsely accused of rape - try the Scottsboro Boys for a good example. You had violent white men threatening violence and people responding to it.

You also had "Uncle Tom" black folk who pandered to the white racists.

And how is this all morally different? And wny shouldn't we treat the black racists with the revulsion that we treated past generations of white ones????

Re: Loyal Democrat
All the speculation about LD has been interesting, but if LD actually believes that DA's engage in honorable crusades, s/he obviously needs to read more about how the One Ring injustice system actually works. The best way to get an education as to how the court system actually works is to read U.S. Supreme court decisions, where five bright majority minds often argue with four bright dissenting minds, all using the exact same talking points, historical references and moral platitudes to accomplish exact moral opposite agendas.
Nifong has been already been anointed with absolute immunity from lawsuit for all of his prosecutorial decisions, even if they are intentionally malicious and criminal. Go to http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/supreme.html, put the correct numbers in the “Citation Search” boxes, and read Imbler v. Pachtman, 424 U.S. 409 (1976). First the judges anointed themselves with absolute immunity in Bradley v. Fisher, 80 U.S. (13 Wallace) 335 (April 8, 1872), Pierson v. Ray, 386 U.S. 547 (1967) and
Stump v. Sparkman, 435 U.S. 349 (1978). Then they spread the immunity disease to prosecutors in Imbler, then they spread it to presidents in Nixon v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 731 (1982).
What Nifong may be in trouble for is violating the professional canons by lying to the public and trying to manipulate public opinion against the accused to unfairly obtain a conviction instead of playing by the rules.
The law profession can hassle its own, but I predict any private civil action against Nifong will fail. Read the above cases (both the majorities and the dissents), and weep.
If all Americans would read U.S. Supreme Court decisions for a hobby (as I do), the legal-profession culture would be politically unable to maintain their commercial monopoly on access to justice.
Judges and prosecutors like Nifong pull this kind of moral-mutant psychopathic civil-rights-violative crap hundreds, perhaps thousands, of times per day in America and it never receives the publicity of the Duke case, although I'm truly glad for the Duke defendants.
The proof is in the cases. With the above information it easy for interested individuals to read them.

Nifong
Loyal Dumbocrap

And Clinton didn't lie about Lewinsky, either. Only under oath, and was fined some $ 90,000 for PERJURY.

Nifong committed perjury when he singned a statement that he didn't know of any further info that would exonerate the accused, it's that simple, when you sign that kind of statement as an officer of the court, and it's not true, you have committed perjury. He should be tried for perjury, and disbarred, and have to pay substantial damages to the young men whose lives he tried to ruin.

The Old Coot.

Loyal Dumbocrap
You probably think that retrobution for slavery is a good thing. Fine, you find a living ex-slave, and a living ex-slaveowner, and I'll make him pay.

You're typical of the Marxists in this country, two wrongs make a right as long as it makes you feel good.

Tell you what, why don't you give those poor, down trodden people all your money and possessions, and then maybe you will have some credibility.

The Old Coot.

Chuck
I think gently99 is right about the accuser's motive. Those kids probably did call her a N****R.

In her mind and others, that is justification enough for any punishment. I teach school and I have had outraged students totally disrupt class when they learned that there is a river and a country named Niger on the map. There is a limit to man's knowledge, but there is no limit to ignorance.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO MIKE NIFONG?
Nothing. This will all vanish like a fa#t in the wind.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE 'STRIPPER'?
She will be interviewed in silhouette or with her face and voice obscured on Oprah, Larry King, Anderson Cooper and probably walk away with some kind of book deal.
Think Jim McGreevy on this one, readers.

dUKE
I love it that the "Loyal Democrat" is ready to try and convict people not because of evidence, but so it makes Blacks feel better about Whites and the past. Does the end justify the means if it is the Republicans doing the justifying...I don't think so. Communism was great at justifying the ends, perhaps the "loyal Communist...I mean Democrat" would like to go back in time to the Soviet Union. I can't wait until someone tries to ruin your life and reputation for their gain...let's see if you have the same feelings than...

Also Loyal Democrat = Treasonous Leftist

Loyal Democrat?
"...blacks are kept away from the voting booths by hoses and dogs whenever it comes time to cast a ballot. It is a shame that when blacks finally manage to fight their way into the booth..."

The only things keeping Blacks away from the booth is their feet. I haven't seen any hosings since the 60's, maybe you have somewhere but it would have been on EVERY news station.

I'm sure you think it is also right for people like Rev. Al "Tawana Brawley" Sharpton and Jesse "Hymietown" Jackson to spread their brand of Racism around by intimidating others. Both these two fools and Nifong are totally out of line. Prosecuting innocents for the crimes of others in the past is not what our country is about.

Also...maybe they don't teach you this in school, but more white people were enslaved in the 1700 and 1800's in Northern Afica than blacks were taken to be enslaved in America. But that doesn't fit the leftist, liberal template of White = bad, Black = good.

Nothing like convicting people because of there color...the same thing that used to happen to blacks in the South. It will never even things up...but apparently it makes you feel great....can you say reverse racist....look in the mirror.

My Hat's Off To Loyal Democrat
Please keep up the good writing.

Nifong is a worm
A waste to humanity.

Ken -- The "N-Word(r)"
Wait until you need to explain the definition of "niggardly".

-- which I'm surprised --
-- got past the Townhall filters!! --

gently99 -- Spat?
quoth gently99: "Now don't get into a spat."

Spat? What spat?

We're having a discussion, is all. Nobody calling nobody no bad names nohow.

I have a lot of respect for a lot of MountainRose's opinions (although she mistakenly thinks I'm a "nice guy" when I'm actually rather mean and nasty -- just ask my kids!)

BUT -- she can be a little "holier than thou" sometimes, and wants to use the power of government to enforce it.

To me, that's no different than Sharia law, just using a different Book as your source material.

Loyal Democrat
You have to be out of you're ever living mind!

Your post on 1/2/07 at 1:03 am is unbelievable.

I haven't read the rest of the posts yet. Hopefully they will get better than the garbage you posted.

Shall we hang you for a crime you didn't commit, because someone else done someone else something wrong at some other time? That'll sure show them we mean business!

predictions for nifong in 2007
please do not post any vitriolic messages about my lack of punctuation, improper spelling, or idiotic ideas. i'd hate for anyone to waste time hating me when i won't even notice, because i don't come here often. however, after reading the comments you all have posted about sowells article, i just had to get this off my chest. i predict, due to my time spent in the lower areas of society and getting to know how those people think, that in the coming year someone will come out with a book deal exposing how nifong, or someone close to him, set up those boys for the express reason to gain media attention. it's all about the money, folks....i thought from day one that this smelled like a set-up. follow the money, and see who profits from the actions. we've already seen how the other girl in the case was trying to get money out of her involvement in the case. and oddly enough, once she was rebuffed in the media she turned against the alleged victim. i'm not saying the guys were smart for hiring a stripper ("exotic dancer" my hairy butt), and i'm not saying they didn't talk smack to her. all i'm saying is that it's mighty odd that such a thing could happen just when nifong needed it. and the alleged victim isn't getting any money from anyone....i wonder how long it will take her to turn on whoever suggested she do this? nifong or not....someone put the idea into her head. i'm just waiting to see who her accomplice is. ps-if the head of the dna clinic testified, but agreed to not say anything while those boys were dragged through the mud, why hasn't he been fired and prosecuted? would you like that to happen to you? because, if it happened there.....it can happen anywhere.

Nifong
The justice/jurisprudence system has got to hang this rotten skumbag in the most visible and crushing way, or his actions will be used to justify jury malfeasance for the next 10 years. To say nothing of lowering the public's high opinion of lawyers.

L.D.
O.K. I've read through the whole thing now.

Maybe LD is a parody. If so he is pretty good. Problem is there are people around who think just like him.

I hope Nifong gets prison time for this and has to pay $$ for the costs and damage he has done. Unfortunately D.A.s have gotten away with this type of thing before. Sad!

Loyal Democrat is actually the FBI!
I have been observing the behavioral pattern of "Loyal Democrat" over the past few months (at least it seems like a few months).

I have come to the startling conclusion that whoever this is, he/she/they is/are attempting to subvert Townhall.com letters to the editor into a tool to toy with/manipulate the psyches of the liberal trolls who fall into the Townhall.com pool after skipping off the ionosphere of Moveout.org, etc., (e.g., Kimberly and Tanabear), subtly convincing them that Townhall is being taken over by persons who think like they do.

This can only be an FBI plot.

If you don’t believe that the FBI would stoop so low, please read Ann Coulter’s column on Kwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnzzzzzaaaa,
(or however it’s spelled, the spell checker just crashed). There might be too many letter a’s there.

Or maybe Karl Rove has decided to amuse himself with a new toy. Wow, just think. Karl Rove reads what I write.

Border Guards
This case has some similarities to the railroading of the two Texas Border Guards now facing 12-13 years for trying to stop an illegal drug runner.

UncaAlby
UncaAlby writes: Tuesday, January, 02, 2007 1:46 AM
MountainRose - - "Blue Laws"
quoth MountainRose: "1) Associating with immoral people (strippers) can get you into hot water."

WHY?

ANYone can be falsely accused of rape, or any other crime. As a matter of fact, it happens all the time. DA's are supposed to have the good sense and skill to separate the wheat from the chaff. The only reason this case had any "legs" at all was exactly as Dr. Sowell described. It fit with the liberal anti-wealth anti-white agenda. These kids could have been accused of rape by a black woman on the janitorial staff, and it would have fit even better. Nifong would have a platinum mine -- but instead, he got this case, which was merely a silver mine. But beggers can't be choosers, huh?
*******************************************

Hi UncaAlby!

Why? Because by her chosen profession, this woman is signaling that she is a low-life.

The Lefties have done such a job on our culture, that people forget to avoid unsavory characters for the very reason they may get you in trouble.

A sort of "profiling" in your personal life.

Of course a char-woman could do the same thing, but since she is in a decent job instead of taking off her clothing and doing lap dances, I would be less worried about her doing the same thing.

You know, in the old days young people had chaperones to prevent things like this from happening. Chaperones not only prevented sexual behavior among youths, they also were there to protect the kids' reputations from false accusations.

UncaAlby
"I have a lot of respect for a lot of MountainRose's opinions (although she mistakenly thinks I'm a "nice guy" when I'm actually rather mean and nasty -- just ask my kids!)

BUT -- she can be a little "holier than thou" sometimes, and wants to use the power of government to enforce it."
**************************************

Just saw this post, and want to point out that my call for a return to "blue laws" was a small part of my suggestion.

Most of what I advocate is a return to wisdom, where guarding your reputation from a trashy woman is as instinctive as guarding your health from "second-hand-smoke."

These boys are suffering far more than they would have under an old-fashioned system where they avoided "fallen women," knowing that unsavory people can get you entangled in trouble.

It is too bad that no one warned them.

In fact, now days many universities are switching to dorm rooms where a boy and a girl live together in the same room. Already it is impossible on some campuses for a girl to find a dorm where she does not have to shower with the guys.

It is a dispicable, topsy-turvy system, and our kids are being stripped of defenses that we took for granted when we were young.

And then when things like this happen, the Left refuse to admit that their failed policies facilitate travesties like this one.

gently99 - strip joints have been
around forever. At least there are a lot of witnesses to prove you just sat and looked.

There is a thriving porn industry. You can rent a DVD and never have contact with the trash who make them.

To invite a woman who is no better than a prostitute into your home is foolhardy, because at the very least, she can go through your belongings and steal stuff.

The MSM has done a good job in convincing people that "nice" girls strip too. Well, it ain't true, no matter what Demi "the Hoe" Moore wants you to think.

Mountain Rose
With very few exceptions, and none in decent economies like the USA has, strippers and prostitutes are involved in slow suicide. Drugs and foolishness prevail. They are not necessarily actively dangerous, but they are loose cannons, self-hating people that often do hateful things to themselves and others. Best to stay far far away. There are outfits in the states that provide "strippers" to bachelor and bachelorette parties, and the entertainment at a promotion party i attended in DC was "strippers". I use quotation marks because they didn't strip completely. Not much different from NFL cheer leaders, actually. But its a slippery slope, heading into degradation and usually early death. While i was still in my 20's the basic sadness, and waste of an often beautiful child of God became my main reaction to this sort of thing. Tragic squandering of human potential.

sbmcgraw
The woman you asked about is Wendy Murphy. She is a contemptable, man hating psychopath. When her face appears on screen I leave the channel.


Bill O'Reilly has her on his show frequently. I think he figures that she is obnoxious enough to hold viewers. Who knows?


I am confused about something. In your post you referred to a s#*nky ho. The other night I attempted to post a comment in which I referred to this degenerate creature as a sk#*^ ho.


When I tried to submit the post the remarks I had made suddenly became highlighted, and a message above the box said that the word s***k is not permitted on Town Hall.


I really do not know what is going on here. I am going to try to submit this now. If it won't go through I will edit out "the word", and try to asay it another way.


Well, it happened again. How does this make sense. Is this political correctness unevenly applied? The word is commonly used and is not profane. It is derogatory, but how does it make it into ANY post here? ?????


Yossarian -- So what of it?
Is being spoiled, overprivileged and/or white a crime in this country now? Does it merit jail time? Does it merit court time and legal fees? Does it merit having your life ruined?

Because if it doesn't, then your comments are entirely unjustified and baseless.

Republicans got whupped last November, this is quite true. But certainly not for defending people who are clearly innocent of their accused crimes.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

sbmcgraw and Skip
So the "hoe" is preggers. Perhaps she was out looking for a rich daddy for her baby, forgetting that there are such things as DNA out there.

I guess she works nights and doesn't get a chance to watch Gerry Springer.

Skip- regarding the word "sk@nk"- I have had the same problem, so I use the "@." Works good.

And they call me prudish!

Don't trust DA's or Cops
I have a friend who is being falsely accused by his ex-wife of some heinous things. The DA and the cops have lied to him, lied in court and the system has taken her side at every turn. She is essentially using the system to bludgeon him. The injustice is maddening! The legal bills have driven him deeply into debt. I used to believe that the system, for all its flaws, essentially worked. Now I don't believe that. I will never again give a cop the benefit of the doubt and will assume they are lying to me unless I know better.

Help him. Help who?
Yossarian,
Since when did liberals abandon due process and the concept of innocent until proven guilty? Oh wait, I keep forgetting that modern liberals = Marxist/Stalinists. I had you guys mixed up with the likes of John Locke and Thomas Paine. Sorry, you are beyond help.

Skip -- Townhall Filter
The townhall filter is imperfect at best. A few months ago, you couldn't say words like "responsibility" because "pons" was embedded, which apparently is Spanish profanity. Or something like that, I don't remember the exact word.

Just work around it until you get your posting in. It's not hard.

Yossarian- I wouldn't go counting
your Senatorial chickens until they "hatch" Senator Tim Johnson out of the ICU.

All it takes is for the Republican Governer of his state to appoint a member of the GOP as his replacement, and you have a 50/50 split in the Senate.

And of course, the tie-breaker will be Dick Cheney.

The talk show hosts are too polite, but unless the DimDems can pull off a "Weekend at Bernies" with him, he is likely going ot have to forfeit his seat.

Boo Hoo, Bub!

Regarding the "S" word
I thought it was just slang for nasty, dirty, filthy and unclean. I can use all of these words and no one objects. Why would Sk@nky be any different? Perhaps I could say skunky instead? It seems about the same!

Yossarian "Debate" Tactics
First of all, Katrina is not the subject matter today. The subject matter happens to be a group of people falsely accused of a heinous crime, simply for political gain. This group happens to be white males -- but that's NOT supposed to matter.

Bringing up Katrina is a very typical tactic -- when you get cornered, change the subject, then go back on the attack. I fear you'll find that tactic won't work very well here.

But since you brought it up -- speaking of Katrina -- where was the black governor?

Where was the black mayor? And his completely non-executed "disaster plan?" And his underwater school-busses? (Maybe he'd heard one too many stanzas of "Yellow Submarine" and got confused? Easy mistake, could happen to anybody.)

As it so happens, government at all levels were caught with their pants down. And we really shouldn't be surprised, because government almost *always* gets caught with their pants down when the unexpected happens. But beyond that, the people who didn't leave town when they could have are, IMHO, stupid. It's not like they didn't have a whole week's notice.

You don't need to be any particular race to be stupid. Just try ride out a category 5 hurricane, and you're qualified. Bill Engvall will come up and say, "Here's your sign."

As to FEMA, in 1994 we had a huge earthquake over here in California. The media interviewed all sorts of people complaining about FEMA's non-response -- it was very reminiscent of the complaints in New Orleans. Only in this case, the complainers just happened to be white.

This piece of information I render for the other readers here who might be interested in knowing. Because I can tell already that it's a complete waste of time on Yossarian.

"There are none so blind as he who WILL NOT see."

Yossarian- what do you mean "stunt?"
Yossarian writes: Wednesday, January, 03, 2007 12:15 AM
Mountain Rose
If the governor DOES pull a stunt like that, '08 is going to make '06 look like a Repugnantcan cakewalk. So, in the immortal words of Chimpy-in-Chief, Bring It On!!
************************************

What the heck are you talking about fool?

The LAW of the land states that the Governer appoints a replacement if a Senator is unable to assume his post.

Who do you think a Republican would appoint; a member of the Green Party?

I know the Left is fond of making up laws on the spot to suit their current whims, but you take the cake.

Yossarian- it takes one to know one
"There are none so blind as he who has his head firmly wedged betwixt his butt cheeks".
******************************************

After reading your posts I was wondering where your head was, but now that you have recited that charming ditty, I can see why you are not using yours.

Yossarian

Sakahachi, punk

Re: Yossarian
I'm new at this talk string stuff. Can somebody explain to me why anybody would bother to respond to the manipulative, self-evidently-narcissistic, willful ignorance of the logical-fallacy-laden blather of such as Yossarian? I would be willing to bet money that s/he has never so much as read a Supreme Court opinion all the way through in his/her life, and is completely ignorant of such concepts as procedural due process, substantive due process, rule of law and playing by the rules.
Seems to me that in a forum and atmosphere where most posters are at least making some semblance of an effort to rationally discuss society's problems (and possible solutions thereto) that a name-calling sophist wannabe (not enough intelligence to make an effective sophist) like Yossarian is so out of place as to be ignored by all.
It is plain to see Y's only contribution to the mix is disruptive ad hominem folly. Maybe Y is the FBI. Read a book sometime, Y. Maybe start with Thomas Sowell's or Walter Williams' books on Economics 101. Perhaps then you'll feel better about yourself and not be so anxious and needy to disrupt adult conversations by displaying all your childish attention-getting mechanisms.

Re: Yossarian - - Part II
Sorry, Y, that last post is probably over your head. Let me try something a little more suited to your level, so you can understand it and let the conversation move on: "I'm rubber and you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you." Crawl back under your bridge, troll.

Truth matters
It is so refreshing to read what Dr. Sowell has written. It should horrify us that a district attorney would deliberately prosecute anyone he knows the evidence appears to exonerate.

It matters whether the woman was actually raped. If so, whoever raped her should be prosecuted. But it also matters if she knowingly falsely accused these men. Truth matters.






Re: Yossarian -- Part III
Sorry Moki, I really did like your post. Truth is not words we speak. Words are measuring units of human ideas. Truth = existence/reality, and yes it matters huge.
I promise this is my last comment on Y, folks. It's just so funny I had to sssshhare (that's touchy-feely socialist lib lingo). The amoeba lacks the brain cells to understand whether he's talking to a conservative ("contard" in libspeak, see http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=contard)
a libertarian, an anarcho-capitalist, or an anarcho-Christian. Can you see the aliens being greeted by an amoeba like Y?! Now THAT's funny! Bring on the asteroid, we are unworthy of life!

Yossarian- silly child
Do you actually think anyone would expect a Republican Governer to appoint some Leftie Loser just because some DimDems might get their knickers in a knot?

The law is the law, regardless of what the Lefties want.

I know this will make the childish extremists throw a temper tantrum, but tough patooties!

By the way, as of 12/28/06, he was still in "critical condition:"
http://johnson.senate.gov/~johnson/releases/200612/2006C28A11.html

My Condolences in advance!

Yossarian- smells like what?
Yossarian writes: Wednesday, January, 03, 2007 12:47 AM
Mountain Rose
Nope, my head's not there, smells too much like a mountain rose.
**********************************
Gee, I thought your head smelled like a prairie pizza!

Able Goodman
posted that prosecutors are immune from civil suits ["Nifong has been already been anointed with absolute immunity from lawsuit for all of his prosecutorial decisions, even if they are intentionally malicious and criminal."]

Although I know that government employees are immune from civil suits, I don't think that malicious and/or criminal prosecution falls under that immunity.

I believe that Nifong could be sued for violation of civil rights in federal court, although I can't cite a case or statute (I'd have to do some research).

Tit for Tat - -
- - is futile.

No matter how infantile you get in insulting a troll -- trust me on this -- he'll stoop even lower.

Best thing to do is ignore him.

How in the world
can Mr. Y post such stuff while Pistol, BrianR, GunnyG and other more or less intelligible and reserved posters get sent to Siberia?

Please read the immunity decisions
DavidMac -- The official immunity cases I cited are worth reading — honestly. There are dissents in the cases involving judicial immunity — the best, in my opinion, is William O. Douglas in Pierson — and since judges are the players who did the self-anointing, those cases are expecially enlightening.
Imagine how much worse things would be if non-government criminals could anoint themselves with "legal" immunity for their malice and crimes!
I know it's tough reading material with paragraph-long sentences, but it's worth doing. When I first started learning how to to legal research back in 1980, I was actually forced to use my a finger to track the punctuation through some of the sentences across the page. Now I can read half-page sentences just as easily as "see Spot run."
For any person who takes the trouble to read the cases, I think it's safe to promise that you will find reading the Supremes is enlightening and, therefore, empowering. As voters, it gives us a little more accurate picture of what we need to try to accomplish politically.

Able Goodman
If you want to read a case on Judicial Immunity try "Sparks v Duval County" in SW somewhere around 1960-70. It will make your blood boil.

Able Goodman

You wrote: "I'm new at this talk string stuff. Can somebody explain to me why anybody would bother to respond to the manipulative, self-evidently-narcissistic, willful ignorance of the logical-fallacy-laden blather of such as Yossarian?"


I am not new to "this talk string stuff", but relatively new to TH.com. I am recently retired and have more free time now than at any time since I graduated from college 35 years ago. Still, I find it amazing that many players here have so many (apparently) random moments to devote to this enterprise.

I enjoy this pastime in moderation, but learned quickly that the Internet's anonymity is the merry playground of many an arrested adolescent -- to say nothing about the ACTUAL adolescents.

My answer to your question (see above): I don't.

Nifong / Duke Rape Case Has One Surprise
Dr. Sowell does a fine job of clearing the nonsense and getting to the simple truth, and bravo for his early and consistent suspicions about this case. The Nifong RapeGate scandal is and will continue to be harmful to us all, particularly in the areas of sexual assault and race relations, wouldn't one think the abuse of such issues itself constitutes a "hate crime". But I digress, my point is that to me there seems only one surprise in this scandal. Sowell clearly describes how an attorney is willing to undertake a planned, consistent, and long running abuse of monopolistic legal privilege granted solely to attorneys for the sole purpose of his career. No doubt the American public's near universal derision of the legal profession reflects their understanding of this fundamental concept: Lawyers lie before a courts, deceive the public, and abuse their self constructed monopoly for the legal resolution of business, family, and criminal disputes for their own benefit. The only surprise here is that a few lawyers in NC filed charges against Nifong. It is virtually unheard of for a large firm lawyer, or governmental attorney, to actually be held to any sort of justice - though whether Nifong ever receives a punishment worthy of his crimes is doubtful. Sadly, the American system of "justice" is merely a playing field where purportedly opposing lawyers enter into a business model indirectly involving their clients - and for any other profession or industry - this construction would be rightfully characterized as extortion. The magnitude and frequency of large law firm misconduct is rivaled only by the corresponding failure to investigate, prosecute, and protect by the State Bar Associations, Attorney General(s), and the DOJ. Apparently, the North Carolina Bar realized something had to be done to protect their franchise. I won't applaud them unless and until they get real results. But I'm surprised they did anything. Sadly, Nifong's conduct is child's play compared deceit in the private sector and the Ostrich Mentality at the DOJ. Try reading some materials at BankruptcyMisconduct.com

Sdan and "random moments"
In some cases, mine for example, the "random moments" may not be anywhere near as numerous as you think. In my own case, I have been researching law as a serious hobby since 1980, when, as a nonbar pro se, I won a fullblown federal trial with over 200 exhibits, prevailing in an unprecedented issue on every point I raised. I have a computer full of Supreme Court decisions, so a lot of my stuff is copy and paste, an enterprise which, in my case, takes a tiny fraction of the "random moments" it might take a person unfamiliar with legal research. BTY, I would love to see even more URLs in talk string submissions. I, for one, bother to read them.
Maybe the mystery isn't as profound as you suspected. :-)

Able Goodman

I spent two years over at PBS.org (under a different avatar) discussing a book and PBS series written and produced by an acquaintance of mine, Dr. Armand Nicholi, who is a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. The thread is now closed (http://discussions.pbs.org/index.pbs) (The Question of God), but was a great discussion while it lasted. There are over 38,000 people on those boards, but many are dominated by the same players, and not a few have a blatant political agenda. People such as yourself -- open to honest inquiry -- seem to be a decided minority.

My own experience here has been that I simply cannot keep up with some who seem to use these boards as a chatroom. Throughout my working career (which involved studying medical histories all day for almost 30 years), I promised myself that I would spend more time reading for pleasure, and that is exactly what I am now doing, and loving it. All non-fiction, and one text invariably leads to another. I remain active at home and doing some volunteer work and just drop in here as time permits. Many of the columnists at Townhall.com have their own individual blogs, accessible from the home page, and from there you can spend many hours reading and posting, though often (again!) with many of the same folks.

Questions for Yossarian

Are you trying to replicate the Trump-Rosie feud?

Can you engage in dialog?

Can you grant the posters here civility in your responses?

Inquiring minds would ike to know.

These people are positively civil compared to some other sites.

Yossarian - getting back to as requested

Questions for Yossarian Part II

Are you trying to replicate the Trump-Rosie feud?

Can you engage in dialog? (Alternate spelling per Random House College Dictionary)

Can you grant the posters here civility in your responses?

Inquiring minds would like to know. Yes, I had a typo and should have proofread my post

Your name calling is disappointing and off the subject. Thanks you for replying.

Request: By illiterate contards, do you mean illiterate ignorant conservative?

Am I to assume your answers to my original questions are no and no?

The people on Townhall are positively civil compared to some other sites.

Are you serious?
Two wrongs don't make a right, however, some of you here betray your prejudice feelings because you are not seeing the facts.

Nifong was not in this for the black community. He was in it for Nifong. Yet you continue to talk about what black people hoped to gain from this.

As a black conservative, yes, I get tired of blacks WHEN they blame whites for all of their problems. I also get tire of opportunist like Sharpton and Jackson. I am sure that most of the black community in Durham did not want innocent people to be punished (some of them probably know what that is like). The probably thought (given what they were told at the time) that the guys really did do it.

So please, stop making assumptions about what the black community hoped to gain from this. If this were a black man raping a white woman, you all would want justice as well if you thought the man was guilt (as you should). Hopefully if he was innocent you would want him let go. Why do you assume that the black community wants any different.

Some of us are mean and simple minded but so are some members of other groups. Yet you feel entitled to take out your frustrations with "black rage" on the entire black community when all of us are not out to get "whitey".

Of course, you will never hear the true feelings of the black community because it is not news and it does not fit the liberal agenda. If you want to be angry, be angry at the accuser, Nifong, the Black Panthers, Sharpton, Jackson but don't pass blame on the black people who only wanted justice when they thought that a wrong was committed. We don't all blindly play the race card.

I agree with Heather
As another African American conservative I can say that I have yet to speak with anyone - black, white, or otherwise that thought this case had any merit or wanted those boys convicted to "get back" at people.
Please understand that there are A LOT of African Americans who think like Sowell and other rational people. You won't hear our voice because the media doesn't like what we have to say.
For the record - every African American person I know didn't think the way the media portrayed blacks about Katrina, OJ, or anything else.

Packrat - - -
You are wasting your time, amigo. See my posting titled "Tit for Tat".

UncaAlby
Thanks for the advice.

You are right.

Nifong
Nifong's misconduct doesn't surpise me. Corruption by govt. lawyers is an old tradition in N.C. I have exposed N.C. Att. Gen. Roy Cooper's fraud on the US Supreme Court for 14 months without objection from Cooper. Cooper is now in charge of the Duke case. Good luck! The mainstream media won't cover my story.

Chris Langdon

Shameless plug
Check out http://www.mormoncentury.org for sociopolitical commentary in a rational and faithful context.
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