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Tuesday, December 26, 2006
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
A dangerous obsession
by Thomas Sowell
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The media and academia are continuously obsessed with "gaps" and "disparities" in income. As one talk show host put it, "It makes no sense" that a corporate executive makes over $50 million a year.

Ninety-nine percent of all the things that happen in this world "make no sense" to any given individual. Do you understand how your automobile's transmission works? Could you repair it if something went wrong?

Do you understand how aspirin stops headaches? How to make yogurt?

Years ago, a famous essay pointed out that nobody knows how to make a simple lead pencil. That is, there is no single individual anywhere who knows how to grow the wood, mine the graphite, produce the rubber, and manufacture the paint.

Complex economic processes cause all these things to be done and coordinated by a wide variety of people, just in order to produce something as simple as a lead pencil. Multiply that by a hundred or a thousand when it comes to the complexity of producing a car or a computer.

If you cannot understand something as simple as making a lead pencil, why should you be surprised that you don't understand why someone is making a lot more money than somebody else?

Moreover, if this obsession with income disparities is to be something more than mere hand-wringing or gnashing of teeth, obviously the point is that somebody ought to "do something" to change what you don't understand.

Usually that means that the government -- politicians -- should impose policies based on your ignorance of what is going on. Can you imagine anything more dangerous than allowing politicians to decide how much money each of us can earn?

Of course, such political control of incomes is usually advocated only to deal with "the rich." But, when income taxes were imposed in the early 20th century, they applied only to "the rich" and they took a very small percentage of their income.

Once the floodgates are opened to this kind of political power, however, we have seen with the income taxes that they not only spread far beyond "the rich," they took a serious share of even middle class incomes.

Moreover, the income tax has spawned an intrusive bureaucracy, creating so much complexity and red tape that millions of ordinary citizens have to go get some accountant to fill out the forms for them -- and then sign under penalty of perjury that it was done right.

If you knew how to do it right, you wouldn't have to go to somebody else to have it done, would you?

Incidentally, it took a Constitutional amendment to enable the federal government to impose an income tax. The people who wrote the Constitution were wise enough to understand what a dangerous thing it would be to allow government to take money from people just because those people had it.

Unfortunately, "progressives" were foolish enough, or envious enough, to single out "the rich" for a process that would inevitably spread across society and become insatiable in its demands.

Today's "progressives" want to expand political control of incomes even more. They call it "social justice" but you could call it Rumpelstiltskin and it would still mean politicians deciding how much money each of us can be allowed to have.

It is also worth noting that the people who are said to be earning "obscene" amounts of money are usually corporate executives. There is no such outrage whipped up when Hollywood movie stars make some multiple of what most corporate executives make.

This is social or ideological bias added to envy and ignorance. It makes quite a witches' brew on which to base national policy.

Lofty talk about "social justice" or "fairness" boils down to greatly expanded powers for politicians, since those pretty words have no concrete definition. They are a blank check for creating disparities in power that dwarf disparities in income -- and are far more dangerous.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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I have no problem...
...with how much someone else makes! A person is only worth what his employers are willing to pay him...and if a CEO makes the company a gang of money, then he is worth every penny that the company pays him. Seems simple enough to me.

But our "progressive" friends see no problem with trying to rob someone else of their cash...just so long as THEY are exempt! I don't see Rob Reiner, Babs Streisand, Jean-Francois Kerry, or Teddy Kennedy lining up at the IRS offices trying to give any extra money to the G! They will go thru hell and high water to keep their money safe from the government, while braying for the OTHER rich folks to have to pay more in taxes. These clowns can't figure out how to decipher a copy of the Constitution, so why should THEY have any say in the financial matters of the citizens.

Flagwaver
When i got my first job i was really hot when i found out some other guys were getting more money for the same work. Then i remembered how great it felt and how lucky i was to get a much better job than i anticipated. Right then i decided that someone else's better luck had nothing to do with my good luck. Guess i was a natural born optimistic self-confident conservative. And next time i negotiated salary, i was somewhat more experienced and tougher.

Flagwaver
Your so right! In addition, the Liberals never question the outrages salaries (of our tax money) the politicians pull down for producing absolutely nothing! If politicians were actually paid what they were worth. They would have to pay us to take a chance on them.

You wanna lower taxes?
Fine, cut the military budget.

Sowell writes, "Today's 'progressives' want to expand political control of incomes even more. They call it 'social justice' but you could call it Rumpelstiltskin and it would still mean politicians deciding how much money each of us can be allowed to have." But where does your tax money really go?

According to the "Analytical Perspectives" book of the Budget of the United States Government, Fiscal Year 2007, 30% of the budget goes to current military expenditures, while a further 19% goes to paying past expenditures (veterans' benefits among other things). The United States currently accounts for 48% of the world's military spending as we fight this "War on Terror" against poorly trained, poorly educated Islamic fundamentalists armed with obsolete Soviet equipment.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2007/index.html

But of course it's convenient to talk about taxes as though we're talking about the pet projects of ivory tower elites or the social redistribution aimed at the undeserving poor.

Why look at the facts when it's easier to just blame the usual suspects?

Asgeorge -- Serious Question:
Yah, that's a nice little website there, it even includes spreadsheets so you can do your own percentage calculations.

It shows (2005 numbers) a total Discresionary and Mandatory military of 19.58% of total budgetary outlays.

So I don't know where you're getting this 30% number from.

We can argue whether it makes sense to out-spend adversaries, both current and potential -- and we can certainly make an issue over how much we spend to protect current allies (so they don't have to) -- but I don't think that's the point today.

I've asked this question on these forums before, and if I got a serious answer, I must have missed it.

My question is this:

What part of the Federal budget expenditure would you cut OTHER than defense?

Considering that, regardless of whether we spend too much or too little, or how we rank in the world -- among everything else we spend money on, defense is at least mandated by the Constitution, while nearly everything else is not. In other words, at least we're SUPPOSED to spend money on the military.

Assume your assessment is correct, and a third the budget goes to the military. Most of the rest goes to things where the Constitutionality is questionable at best. WHICH OF THESE do you want to see cut?

Another complaining diatribe
Look, the Left is going to be the Left no matter how illogical or inconsistent their ideas are. Therefore, Republicans need to engage in a little political jiu-jitsu to finally end the Left. Remember, a Leftist can never be convinced...he can only be stopped.

I propose that Republicans regulate minutely any and all left-wing commercial enterprises: universities, Hollywood, the media, publishing, law, etc. Every Leftist idea should them be applied to these enterprises.

1) Tuition, book, a fee controls for all universities. No textbook can cost more than $10; no fee can go above $5; no tuition price for any university can go above $5,000. Sell this to the public as making education more accessible.

2) Limit the salaries of entertainment executives and lawyers. Neither can make more than $50,000 per year. Sell it to the public as a way of reducing the costs of legal and entertainment services.

3) Limit the costs of advertising. No commercial can cost more than $25,000. Sell this to the public as reducing consumer prices.

These are nothing more than applications of good, Leftist principles. And if the results are what conservatives predict, then so what? Financially bankrupting left-wing commercial interests is a net public good anyway. Is anyone really going to miss some crappy commecial, ambulance-chasing lawyer, or another literary symposium on 'deconstruction?'Of course not.

Continually complaining about the Left without actually using government power to deprive the left of its financial support is guarnateed to go nowhere. Likewise, applying fair, Republican principles to people who will never reciprocate those principles is a suicide pact.

Heck, I still don't understand why, if the US military is 70-90% Republican, the armed forces haven't been used to seize power from the Left. Look at how successfully Pinochet got rid of his Leftists. All he needed to do was kill and exile 26,000 people. Much the same could be done here with comparatively fewer costs.




What else to cut
The budget for the "War on Drugs", Medicare, Social Security...How is that for a start?

And yes, defense is fine, but that's precisely what's at issue here. Does it really make sense for us to account for 48% of the world's military spending given the nature of the people we are up against in this "War on Terror" (sorry, it's a ridiculous phrase so I've gotta use quotation marks)?

Or consider this...A little while ago, a study found that to date the Iraq War had cost $11,300 per household. That figure will no doubt balloon as the war goes on. That money has to come from somewhere. Would you rather have your cash or this debacle on your television screens each night?

AsGeorge writes:

"Why look at the facts when it's easier to just blame the usual suspects?..."

As did UncaAlby, I too visited the site and read the same 19.58% outlay for military expenditures.

Your above sentence is just further exposure of an innate mental incapacity to treat "facts" as "facts".

One cannot debate when we can't even agree the grass is green. And you wonder why "Progressives" are seen as intellectually dishonest creatures by we conservatives.

Just further evidence that liberalism is a mental disorder.

Military spending
1) Yes, it does make sense for us to account for 48% of the world's military spending. That is because the military is staffed by Republican-Americans who desereve to earn the rewards that military service provides. Taxing some New York liberal scumbag so some kid in Lubbock, Texas has a decent living in the service is perfectly okay with me.

2) The "War on Drugs" must not be cut. If anything, it should be expanded. Remember, the vast majority of dealers and users are Democrats anyway and the War on Drugs is the perfect vehicle to put more Democrats in prison...where they belong.

The only thing better would be a death penalty for drug dealing.

Disengenuous AsGeorge
Again you quote "48% of all world military spending" (I won't challenge this number, by the way), but you then make the leap that all of this goes toward the "War on Terror".

I guess our military's presence in Germany and S. Korea, to name a few, is free? We don't spend a dime there, right?

And for the record, other than Canada which protects our northern flank, I would cease spending another dime on protecting countries who have the means to protect themselves, especially those nations who can usually be counted on to be obstructionists to American interests.

One thing we can agree on... I'd like to see our current conflict renamed the "War Against Radical Islam" which is far more accurate. Unfortunately, the "usual suspects" could be counted on to obstruct such a name as being rascist and non-PC.

Figures
"Again you quote '48% of all world military spending' (I won't challenge this number, by the way), but you then make the leap that all of this goes toward the 'War on Terror'."

No, I didn't. I said, "Does it really make sense for us to account for 48% of the world's military spending given the nature of the people we are up against in this 'War on Terror' (sorry, it's a ridiculous phrase so I've gotta use quotation marks)?" The "War on Terror" is presumably the PRIMARY use of our military resources right now; thus the "given..." part of my query.

Here's more clarification about those figures:

http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm

"'Current military' includes Dept. of Defense ($449 billion), the military portion from other departments ($114 billion), and an unbudgetted estimate of supplemental appropriations ($100 billion). 'Past military' represents veterans’ benefits plus 80% of the interest on the debt."

Note that Iraq and Afghanistan will require supplemental appropriations to be decided later, as they have in past years, and are probably underestimated.

what about the stock market?
I usually agree with Sowell but he missed one important market, the stock market.
Sowell writes, "Can you imagine anything more dangerous than allowing politicians to decide how much money each of us can earn?". They do. It's called 401K's. Most companies 401K's offer only mutual funds for employees to "invest" their retirment money. Even if a person has money outside of the corporate world, try to invest in a rental property and call it a 401K. You can't. The Gov won't let you. They force almost all retirement money into the stock market. But mutual funds (MF) aren't accountable to the public like individual stocks are. They can loose value, the MF managers can trade the fund into huge losses. All the while financial advisers will be telling you to "stay the course". This just a minor correction. According to a recent news story on CNN, Wall street paid out 24 BILLION of dollars in "bonuses" (google CNN wall street bonuses). Where does all of that money come from. You and I brother, who have paid their hard earned money into MF 401K's. They are STEALING your money and most people are not even aware of it. If you don't think there is a huge amount of 401K money in the market, check out the Dow- max- linear chart on yahoo.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI&t=my&l=off&z=m&q=l&c=
Just wait until all of those baby boomers start taking that huge-bulge back out of the market. The gov will be part of the biggest redistribution of funds ever in the history of the country. Most of us will loose our retirement when the market crashes.
I don't have any problem with anyone making 40 million. As long as it is in a free market. Not the gov forcing billions into the stock market so a few can get 24 BILLION dollars in bonuses. If you are still skeptical about how crooked the stock market is and the fact that the gov supports it, google "sho list". And then start reading articles about how the SEC does not force borkers to cover SHORT transactions. Some stocks have been on the sho list for YEARS. More wall street stealing at the little guys expense.

So...
"A little while ago, a study found that to date the Iraq War had cost $11,300 per household."

I think I saw a different study that said the war cost an average of $26,844.27 per squirrel. Now that really ticks me off.

nutcase…
Robin Hood took back from the government what the government had confiscated from the citizenry. He, then, returned it to the rightful owners. Robin Hood should be the role model for conservatives.

Asgeorge
Why don't you just save yourself some time here and convert to Islam today, since you are so worried that we are actually spending money to defend our way of life!!

Add to your list of programs to cut to the dept of Educ., Dept of Energy, Dept. of Housing and Urban development, and everything else that does not deal with defense, immigration control and disputes between the states.

Darfur, the military, and leftists
What is needed now in Darfur is a massive military presence from outside to prevent more bloodshed. Unfortunately, that is impossible because of the views of liberals and leftists, who are so anti-military.

How does it feel, Asgeorge, to be saying to the victims in Darfur that they should hope for nothing from us?

Rich
nicely put.

Some idiots will never get it. That's why I only put forth "conversion" efforts to libdolts who have the potential to become right-wingers. The others I merely bash for the fun of it.

Asgeorge is just another mewler repeating the words of others, like a good parrot. What he and the other parrots DO NOT realize that cutting defense spending accomplishes NOTHING since the money is NEVER REFUNDED, merely spent elsewhere as Drop-Trou Bubba showed us.

You want to cut taxes Asgeorge?

1. NO MORE health care for illegals. NONE. ZERO. NO Emergency room visits, nothing.

2. NO MORE welfare. You want a check? If you can function, you can pick up garbage along the roadside, etc.

3. NO MORE Social Security TAXES. YOU plan for YOUR retirement. 401K, TSP, Pension plans, IRA's RIRA's, etc.

4. NO MORE Earned Income Credit. That is simply a socialist redistribution of OPM (other people's money). If you don't make enough, work two jobs. Live within your means. You know, the way THINGS USED TO BE.

One more comment

If there was instant peace worldwide and there was never a need for army or navy..imagine...

1972 over again only much worse..
instant increase in unemployment due to no need for soldiers, no need for defense industry, , instant increase in welfare and other such programs for those instantly unemployed unable to find jobs.
As always the social services budget far exceeds the miltary budget. For 2007, ALL defense spending is proposed 17% of budget, welfare - 13% , medicare- 14%, medicade- 10%, social security- 21 %.



This goes on in NYC..
ALL the time. Billionaire Mayor Bloomberg reaching into my pocket for his "social programs". If I want to give charity, it is MY business how much to give. But with the government in my pocket, I have to support drunks, drug addicts, and pay for abortions. These are all "illnesses" caused by bad behavior. Why do I have to pay for "people" with no self control??

Asgeorge not looking
If you want to know what else to cut, all you have to do is to read the U.S. Constitution, something most liberals have never done, or, if they have, do not possess the intelligence to understand what it says. A quick primer that even the dullest of liberals can understand, if they want to:
1) The constitution spells out quite succinctly the powers of the federal government. These powers are limited and finite, because the authors had a strong resentment of concentrated central powers.
2) The Constitution spells out the rights of the people, which are many. It says that any power not specifically noted in the Constitution belongs to the States or to the people (you can look it up).
3) National defense is the main responsibility of the federal government, all other things being moot if it is ignored. Yes, it is expensive, and there is doubtless waste in the defense budget, but it is allowed by the Constitution.
4) The word 'education' doesn't appear in the Constitution. The federal government doesn't have the power to regulate education in any way, or to tax citizens to pay for it.
5) The phrase 'health care' does not appear in the Constitution. The federal government DOES NOT have the power to regulate it, or to tax citizens to pay for it.
6) Food stamps, WIC, agricultural subsidies, re- building New Orleans, et al, well, you should be getting the picture by now. You can scream and shout, bury your head in the sand, whatever, the feds DO NOT have the power. If you want them to have the power, amend the Constitution. It's just that simple, YFI.

GunnyG
I'm stuck here at the office while everyone is on holiday, and I'm crabby as heck.

Your post brightened my miserable day. Run for office, you have my vote! Merry Christmas!

Tom Breyer
Great post! By the way, although academia is dominated by liberals and leftists, it is not run in any sort of liberal fashion. In academia, the rich get richer and the poor poorer, but no one (except me) complains. Academics who get big grants are those who most likely received them in the past, and such people also went to elite schools, which mostly rich people go to. It's welfare for the rich.

One might assume that the average leftist academic would cheer at the prospect of some poor kid going to mediocre schools and ending up with a Ph.D. But no. Liberal academics will always see such a person as tainted by their having gone to mediocre schools. They will always see them as inferior to those who went to better schools.

Shells
Same here.

Check my blog (click on my handle).

Got three new ones up. Just doing my best to gut-punch the left into submission.

Gunny G

Boy, that sounds awfully harsh - actually expecting people to take responsibility for their own lives and fates.

Bob
LOL!

Expecting people to pull their OWN WEIGHT!

What WAS Miles Standish thinking when he told the Pilgrims, WORK or you ain't getting any chow!?

I would bet a YEAR's salary that if, IF, you put welfare recipients who were clearly able to work, to work picking up trash, cig butts, gum, sweeping streets, emptying trash cans, etc, that they'd have JOBS at Burger King, Walmart, slaughterhouses, and other "odious" places in a DAY!

Gunny: looked at your pics
and now I am sick.

the 'i love ny' was .... more than wrong.

Something bad WILL happen to these (people? nah, animals.)

I was thinking it is time for the SA fault to let San Fran slip between the waves and wash all that gunk out to sea, but that would be pollution.

Then, maybe the islamists would attack THEM instead, but ... the islamists only attack those they disagree with... but there is at least ONE Jew in Berkley which makes anything they do okay.

G*D please - forgive me my thoughts...

But those idiots know NOTHING about history. Especially history of socialism or communism. Course how could I expect them to know about history when they don't have any empathy, sympathy or even common sense.

Just glad I don't live there.

Paying for social programs
Those liberal states -- Massachesetts, New York, California -- they vote over and over to pay for social programs and education. It's their money, they they vote to pay it in taxes and have it spent by the government. Millionaire Mike Bloomberg (billionaire doesn't alliterate) pays far more tax by living in NYC than he would in Bozeman. It's his choice.

It's true that we cannot have a completely flat society where everyone has the same income, but there are a few things to do to make America less rocky: restore the full capital gains and estate taxes, make income tax more progressive, equalize funding for education. Making a pencil is harder than this.

RE: War on Drugs
Tom Breyer writes he believes MORE money should be thrown down the rathole of the "War On Drugs".
Mr. Breyer, it is my humble opinion you are a well-intentioned individual who really hasn't the time in his busy day to find out what the WOD really is.
First, on its face, it is against the grain of freedom. No one has ever been able to explain to me how someone else should have the power to dictate to a citizen what substances said citizen can or cannot stick into his or her own body, as long as said citizen does harm to no one else.
Secondly, the government is in on the dealing themselves. If they wished, they could eradicate every coca plantation in South America and every poppy field in Afghanistan without too much trouble, but then they will also eradicate local economies.
Besides, the DEA does not WANT the flow of drugs to be entirely stemmed. That would put them out of a job. They LOVE playing cops and druggies.
Thirdly, the most harmful drugs now available, with the single extreme exception of methamphetamine, are produced by pharmaceutical corporations and advertised on television.
The "War On Drugs" as it exists now is a cruel charade without discernible benefit.
Only drugs that cause people to be violent or psychotic should be controlled.
The list of such compounds is no where near as long as the list the DEA is after.
Let's get it under control. It's a bigger waste of money than welfare.

Just a thought
You should have seen the ones I DID NOT POST!

Frigging revolting. Believe me, I hope that when the last good American leaves the Bay Area, that a nice 10.0 hits and they just frigging GO AWAY!

I find it disturbing that these drones can enjoy the freedom that American offers and espouse a system like Communism/Socialism that STRIPS away rights and freedoms faster than Drop-Trou Clinton switching one fat intern for another!

Outrageous Compensaton
A twenty six million severance package for getting fired! Come on the playing field isn't level and who is benefiting? Follow the money. The govenment,(lawyers), get half. Lawyer-agents get 10-15%.

How do you think politicians raise millions for reelection if not for looking the other way.

The bottom line is the consumer pays for evrything so you can look at this as an additional tax by the govenment.

The Left
"It is also worth noting that the people who are said to be earning 'obscene' amounts of money are usually corporate executives. There is no such outrage whipped up when Hollywood movie stars make some multiple of what most corporate executives make. This is social or ideological bias added to envy and ignorance..."

Enough said! The Left's hypocrisy and utter lack of thought knows no bounds!


For Liberalgoodman
"equalize funding for education"

What the bleep does that mean? Take away the power of the states to spend their money the way they see fit? Why, that would entirely evicerate the U.S. Constitution and our system of government which is based on federalism. Try googling federalism, idiiot, and learn how the government is supposed to work. Because it danged sure doesn't work that way now.

Robert E Lee
Don't forget the overpaid dopers in sports today.

MULTIPLE MILLIONS a YEAR to play a GAME that returns NOTHING but mental masturbation to the viewers plus endorsements to the sheeple?

For Songsport
As for your specious comments on the War on Drugs: the government, that is, "we the people" have the power to make laws to provide for the common good. Drugs are illegal because they are not a public good. You would know that if you had ever spent a day in abuse/neglect hearings seeing what happens to the children of drug addicts. As a former prosecutor, I made it my special mission to go after drug users AND drug dealers. (And guess what, crime dropped immediately, including domestic violence and burglary.) Because the users sell to others to make customers to support their habit (it's like seeing the first cockroach in your kitchen), they lie to their loved ones and steal from them first, then they start stealing from the rest of us. Meth addicts are paranoid and violent, therefore dangerous to society. Meth labs kill the environment. Plus, drug users demonstrate on a daily basis that they have no respect for the rule of law, therefore they are dangerous to our way of life. So, don't try that libertarian nonsense on me. Drugs are harmful, people who use drugs become socially harmful, a drag on our economy, a physical danger to us, and eventually steal our money through useless social programs to treat them, or by the more direct method of just breaking into our houses. I feel no pity for drug users. Period. They made the decision. They know the facts about drugs. Yet we have to pay for them? Disgusting.

TomBreyer
You are a compadre after my own heart. Post more so i can enjoy as much of your good sense as i do the contributions of GunnyG, Skip, Flagwaver, BrianR, Peppermint and dozens of others who love this country and realize she is not just worth defending, but must be, or we are lost.

for TomBreyer
I think I love you.

TomBreyer
D*mn good post. I missed that earlier this AM before the God of Coffee had kicked in.

I think that we should tax registered liberals about 90% to pay for the military since THEY refuse to serve on the levels of us right-wing warriors.

I think about 90% should suffice. Just enough for them to eat, pay bills, and buy a few of Mao's books. But NOT enough left over to allow them to send idiots like Hitlary and Brackish Osama any contributions.

GunnyG
2 days at least. Finding out they don't like picking up roadside trash would be so exhausting they would require at least 12 hours sleep before going out for that better job.

For GunnyG
I happen to be retired Air Force intelligence. I don't support drop-trou or Al-Gore. I totally support the War on Terror, which I agree should be called the War on Radical Islam. As for the idiot who wants to cut military spending, he did call himself "As*george". We spend a lot on our military because otherwise the world would be a totalitarian slave labor camp. Look at the percentage of GDP that European nations spend on their military. They can only do that because we swoop in to save their asses. They are waiting for us to do something about North Korea, and Iran and the nukes. Everyone is waiting for us to do something about Darfur. Our military did more than the U.N. even thought about doing after the tsunami. I could do on but I know I am preaching to the choir when I talk to you GunnyG. I just wanted you to know that I loved your metaphor "gut punching the liberal left into submission". Keep up the good work. I am currently reading Witness by Whittaker Chambers. I spent 22 years fighting the cold war as a Russian specialist. The guy in your pictures who is wearing the CCCP t-shirt needs to read Witness. The first guy holding the sign: even his hair is red. The hippie playing the wooden instrument: Loser. Knowing that socialism and Marxism has killed millions of people, these people must be especially dense. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Let's hope the majority of us STAY the majority. Yeah for red staters!

Drugs
"A is A" We will always have drugs, do you want them with or without crime?

What is so hard about that? I am certain we could do this and benefit from the mistakes other countries have made thru legalization.

I am for addicts being able to go to a clinic rater than stealing from you and me.

VILLAINS
Mind you the only villains are executives, It's OK for those with a 52 shirt and a 5 hat (athletes), entertainers and politicians to make the big bucks. If your work produces a product or service that's meaningless as defined by the liberal MSM.

Take the minimum wage as an indication of the liberal thought process. If a small business has only 10 minimum wage employees the proposed legislation would increase labor costs by ($2 x 10 =$20) $20 per hour. That's ($20 x 40 = $800) $800 per week or ($800 x 52 = $41600) $41600 per year. The minimum payroll tax would be about 7% so ($41600 x 1.07 = $44512) the actual cost would be $44512 annually. Even a flaming liberal idiot should understand why the cost of the employer's product or service would have to increase.

What is broadly overlooked is if the product or service is used by other businesses the cost increases will drive up the prices of their products or service even if they have no minimum wage employees. The net result will be to increase the cost of all good and services that will bring about the "need" for an additional increase in the minimum wage. A wage increase that is not offset by increased productivity that is set by a third party, government or a union, is a cost to be paid by ALL consumers.

Only two segments of society will benefit from a minimum wage increase, i.e. liberal politicians will be elected and the IRS will find more individuals in a higher tax bracket.

Income
The people here in South Carolina don"t make a huge amount of money. Over here in Columbia,SC Security Officers are paid about 8:50 an hr and these are people who protect malls and buildings and even arrest people. They put their lives on the line everyday for that amount of money. Radio Disc Jockeys make about 8 or 9 dollars an hr and people think they make big money because they are playing music. Some of them make a huge amount of money like Rush Limbaugh, Howard Stern,etc. The Jews run all of the Media

liberalgoodman
That's right, take more of the money from "the rich". That has worked so well in the past! Raise taxes back to 70% and see how much goes offshore. See how many professionals simply work less and live more modestly. Ever hear of the Laffer curve? Or does the liberal mind detest facts so much that it will not compute? Lowering tax rates increased the Federal take for the last two years and the "rich" saw their portion go from 64 to 66%. And, for God's sake, what right do you ever have to lay claim to my amassed fortune on the day of my death? I will have paid taxes on the money earned (Fed, state, local, double FICA, medicare) and on the interest it has earned (capital gains) my entire life! Now you want to take half of it? For what? Haven't I paid enough? Isn't my money mine, to do as I see fit? Is that not the basis of our society, the sanctity of private property? Of course, if you are very wealthy, you will pay an estate attorney to get your money into tax-free trusts. The whole system makes me sick- never work, never save and you will be given money taken from me at the point of an M16. If you love socialism so much, why don't you explain why it has never worked, comrade?

Poignant Thoughts

This article is timely and eminently pertinent to the issues of the day. Patriot Thomas Sowell crafts gems of thought reminiscent of Patriot Thomas Jefferson who is widely credited as saying:

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.”

=====================

Some other statements credited to Thomas Jeffeson:

“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.

History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is.

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

If God is just, I tremble for my country.

It is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong.

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God.

Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.

Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.

That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.

The advertisement is the most truthful part of a newspaper. “

"Rand"y
No sweat, I know where you are coming from.

Thanks for the service, I know some former CI-types who followed and harassed KGB weenies. Tough duty!

I was going to say, "stomping the left into submission but had to get kimder and gentler after my recent exile to Siberia."

No libs to bash there, just hard-working tree-cutting VRWC types!

Didn't they try that in the USSR?
Wasn't the entire premise of the old Soviet Union based on making sure that no one had any more than anyone else (excecpt the ruling elite, of course)? Why do people think that something that failed miserably after a 50 year trial will magically work here? Anyway, most academics have never held "real" jobs, so they would be the last people to make these kinds of decisions.

CVN65
NICE ONE!

I freaking agree 100%! I'm telling ya, it's going to take MILLIONS of US marching on DC to get rid of the bullsqueeze! Red Nancy is GOING to raise taxes come h*ll or high water and we would ALL do well to remember drop-trou klinton's statement on the budget surplus.

"Maybe I raised taxes too much!"

Rand"y"...please note CVN65's wicked gut punch. Libs will flee this post like Frenchmen runing from hot water and soap.

tanabear
Income equality peaked in 1968 and the gap between rich and poor has been growing slowly since.

Gee, you don't think that the creation of LBJ's entitlement society had anything to do with it do ya? Why work when you can get welfare, medicare, medicaid, HUD, subsidized housing, food stamps, and get MORE of it all for each rugrat the ol lady squeezes out!

Thomas Sowell's Column
My comments involve a question ... I have tried to print out this column, but all that prints is the advertisment at the top right of the column.
What am I doing wrong. I would appreciate any assistance you might offer. Thanks

Gunny
And don't forget that "transfer payments" are not counted as income----even if it is income.

I've lost count...
... of how many like minds I read in the comments to Mr. Sowell's spot on piece. I'm so relieved to know I'm in such fine company - TomBreyer, is one name I remember, and the brilliant scholar who posted the Thomas Jefferson primer. I'm in awe. Perhaps we won't lose this country afterall - wi' all these fine minds on the RIGHT course.

Sekhmet
Right, forgot that! thx.

Which leaves THOSE lucky recipients for MORE OPM (other people's money) under that HUGE SCAM called earned income credit aka redistribution of OPM for votes.


education
Sowell points out the problem of ignorance. The solution is education. Movie stars and "atheletes" produce individual obserable results that are easy to understand. ie. He bats .370 and throw down a runner stealing second, therefore he is worthy of high pay.

Most people have no idea what hedging a company's currency risk means, why it is necessary, or that if it isn't done properly a company like citicorp could lose billions. They aren't aware that the people doing this work 90 hours a week, and have to make decisions in minutes not hours and often times with imperfect information.




Military spending
The concept that since the USA spends 48% of what the world spends for military expenses doesn't reflect the true spending.

We are amoung the highest costs of things, so our spending is much higher. In Iran the cost of fuel is less than 20 cents a gallon. They can drive their military vehicles for about 90% less than we spend for fuel. Their soldier get paid less, and the vehicles they build cost less, because thier workers get paid less.

Then answer isn't to just cut what we spend, but to equalize what the costs of things world wide is. Just because bread cost 5 cents in some part of the world, doesn't mean that it is too cheap there or too expensive here, it just means that labor in that place is cheaper than it is here!

A dangerous obsession
An eye opener! I've never understood how a picture gets on my t.v. screen. Excellent point by Mr. Sowell.

Income
Income is earned, not distributed!

Misc comments
Sorry WillBest but I have to include athletes on the list of the overpaid. To get paid what they make to play a game is just obscene. I love sports but haven't been to any professional game in almost 20 years.
=================
To those who would de-fund the WOD I have to assume you are expecting that the cost of the drugs will go down and all those drug abusers will eventually, and more quickly, bring on their own untimely drug induced demise. Great by me but what happens to the people they kill or maim on the roads before they kill themselves? How about the damage to their families before they go? We need to fight the WOD smarter and more efficiently.
=================
Sawdust, the Founding Fathers had a different idea of power than our current government has. Since the federal government does tax and run all those programs, and gets away with it, then they do have the power. Having the power and having the right is something else.
=================
GunnyG. Retired Marine, with a handle like that whoda guessed.

What to Cut
How 'bout the department that builds hurricanes and blows up levvies? Don't remember the name of it...

The liberal (aka socialist) mindset
The most succinct description of the liberal approach to the role of the federal government I have ever read goes something like this:

If it makes money, tax it.
If it continues to make money, regulate it.
When it stops making money, subsidize it.

The government camel manages to stick its nose in everyone's tent. To complain about the CEO's salary is nuts. IF the CEO of GM decided to take his entire salary and distribute it evenly among the 100,000 employees, it works out to about and extra 60 dollars a year, or about $0.03/hr. Big deal. It's just jealousy that someone else has more. We all cannot be CEO's, there would be no one to do the actual work.

liberalgoodman
Now there is a misnomer!

It's true that we cannot have a completely flat society where everyone has the same income, but there are a few things to do to make America less rocky: restore the full capital gains and estate taxes, make income tax more progressive, equalize funding for education. Making a pencil is harder than this.

I'll write this real slow as you do not be able to comprehende things at a normal speed.

Why tax someone for being smart in investing? Investment drives this economy. Tax it too far and people quit investing. This would put us back at 1977 and 10% inflation and unemployment around 14%.

Taxing my estate. Taking 50% after I die and try to help my children means that I will do my best to be Kennedy or a Kerry or a HIlton and set up tax free trust funds and foundations for my progeny. But only if I get rich enough to afford it.

Progressive tax rates... Need I elaborate? But, really, taxing the most productive at obscene rates merely makes the tax payer try to move it around so he doesn't have to pay as much. See list above.

A flat tax would be the only way to level the paying field. And the other thing that should be done is to get rid of the with holding taxes. Make everyone have to write that tax check every three months just like small businesses do. That would make everyone more fiscally responsible (read conservative).

Oh, and by the way... Millions for defense, but not one red penny for tribute!

CEO's salary
If a CEO thought he/she may not get a big bonus even after being fired they may run the company a bit better. The company may be more profitable, employees may make more money, stock holders may get higher dividends, maybe the company would have to reduce employee benefits and lay off workers. But then, hey, that CEO job, that's high stress and they deserve a big salary and bonus no matter how bad they run the company.

Income by Rock
Rock, you're right about wages in Columbia SC. I worked in retail mgmt and property mgmt. Never made more than 30K (late 90's), but did alright there due to lower COL.
One thing you said sounds oddly out of touch with your post. You go to talking about DJ's and what they make, then segued into Talk Show Hosts. Different animal entirely. DJ's are local, good talk show hosts are syndicated nationally or internationally and earn big-bucks, which is alright with me. I just cannot for the life of me figure where you got that the Jews run all of media. I am a contemporary of Rush's, grew up in the same area in SE MO. Neither he nor his family as far as I know are Jewish. To the best of my knowledge, neither is Hannity, Greta, O'Reilly, etc. I won't call your last sentence racist, just stupid. Sounds like you've been listening to skin heads and liberals.
Taproot

false~!
1. the income tax was not enacted as a redistributive measure, it was instituted to build up our military

http://www.salestax.org/library/skousen_16history.html


2. japan has had income controls for years...they seem to be doing fine

http://web-japan.org/factsheet/employ/wage.html

3. i dont advocate income controls, and few americans do...what is necessary is organized action by the MAJORITY - ie: working people forcing employers to pay them better and cut salaries to executives and management - instead of asking the government to do it for us.
But that requires education, and telling the truth, which Sowell seems to oppose. He'd rather everyone just smile and look happy, stay in line and salute the flag, and don't complian that you dont have health care while your boss is playing golf and drinking martinis.

Pointing out wealth disparities - and the FACT that workers produce much greater value than they are paid - is meant to inspire grass roots democratic change, not to get the government to redistribute wealth

scandanavia
the problem with the fabulous wealth equity programs are that the countries doing it are going out of business. they have little productivity, little room to rise above one's circumstances, and they don't contribute much to the rest of the world. they have appallingly slow growth. If tourism ever dropped off they would be bankrupt in no time. If I were a bum i would head not to Hawaii but to Sweden.

Bravo TomBreyer
Make a pencil?
People are only as much as they know.
Each thing learned becomes part of the person and makes them more.
Brains develope just like any other organ.
The more you use it the stronger it becomes.

________________________________
GunnyG
Do you mean to imply that ending Welfare would end our need for illegal Mexicans to do work Americans won't do because it is easier to rely on Welfare?

_________________________________
We need the Fish & Game Dept. to fix this.
OPEN SEASON!
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200612/NAT20061221a.html



Disgusting spending?
We spend more on education, K-12 (1.5 to 2 times) than we spend on the total military budget and that doesn't count how much is spent on higher education. I am amazed that the liberals complain about the military spending being worthless yet they never complain about the educational spending being worthless.

Dollar for dollar, we receive more benefits from the military spending than we receive from the educational spending. Perhaps if our liberal friends would hold the educational spending accountable for their results (similar to their accountability of the military spending) then we would have better discipline and more intelligence from our future leaders.

Gunny G
Alas, maybe you should run for office...along with TomBreyer's post, yours rocked!

Just in case someone tries to skip it(ie-a lib) they might read it here:

1. NO MORE health care for illegals. NONE. ZERO. NO Emergency room visits, nothing.

2. NO MORE welfare. You want a check? If you can function, you can pick up garbage along the roadside, etc.

3. NO MORE Social Security TAXES. YOU plan for YOUR retirement. 401K, TSP, Pension plans, IRA's RIRA's, etc.

4. NO MORE Earned Income Credit. That is simply a socialist redistribution of OPM (other people's money). If you don't make enough, work two jobs. Live within your means. You know, the way THINGS USED TO BE.

Jack: minimum wage
Very good analysis on the true impact of minimum wage hikes, but you missed one key point: Many union wages are indexed to the minimum wage, and so any hike in the minimum wage also raises the wages of union workers who make nothing close to the minimum wage. Worse, it magnifies: If the minimum wage is hiked from, say, $4 to $5.50, then a $20 union wage becomes a $27.50 union wage.

Try magnifying THAT increased cost all across the board!

We are seeing this happen here in Colorado, which approved a minimum wage hike in November. My wife teaches computer apps, and was teaching a bunch of bank execs, who were mystified by the increased cost of parking downtown. She pointed out that it had to do with the minimum wage hike, to which one guy responded, "Yeah, but that doesn't take place until January." My wife replied, "Yes, but they have to raise parking rates *now* to cover the increased payroll NEXT month." Stunned silence ensued, probably as each man in the room thought to himself, "Oh CR*P... what the heck did I vote for???"

Empyrius
You're not giving religious people a very good name... how am I supposed to argue, when I talk to my agnostic and atheist intellectual friends, that religion is every bit as much the province of people with brains, when you spew such idiocy?

My god... did your parents have any children that lived? Best part of you ran down your Dad's leg...

Is empyrius serious?
If so, I would like to meet face to face. I served in the military, proudly, I might add. Your comment that "...as long as they got an endless supply of ignorant peckerwoods and poor blacks to kill for them...." reminds me of one Jonn Kerry, who was not satisfed to lie about me and my fellow soldiers in Vietnam, but had to lie about and insult the fine young men and women who serve us today. I am white as can be, so I guess that makes me an ignorant peckerwood. This ignorant peckerwood will challenge you to any standardized IQ test for $100 a point, more if you can afford it. Do't know if you are from the US, couldn't make a lot of sense out of your post. But I'll tell you something about the fine soldiers who serve today. A couple of years ago, I thanked an obviously new soldier for serving, and made the comment that the world would likely become a very dangerous place in the next few years. "Yes, sir, that's why I joined" was his reply. I've said basically the same thing to every soldier I've met since then, and received the same reply every time. Regardless of where you live in this world, you should thank God for these fine young men and women, not insult them. As Tony Blair recently said to the British, "Only two defining forces ever volunteered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."

empyrius
I'm afraid empyrius is serious but very enlightened about the intelligence and quality fo the American militery today. When I joined the Navy, during the Cuban Missle Crises, I too joined because I thought the world was going to become a very dangerous place in the very near future. The difference was that of the 60 some in my Boot Camp company there were only about half, or less, of us that had graduated from high school. Now most recruits have high school and some college behind them. They are educated, intelligent, and know what they are getting into; well they know as well as anyone who has never actually been in combat can know. Their whole life changes the first time they hear, "incoming!" for real.

The current crop of American military men and women have my greatest respect. Every time I have the opportunity to tell them face-to-face I make the time. That is the absolute least they deserve and more than we got when we got home from Vietnam. Hopefully they will never have to come home to an ungrateful nation or have to listen to an idiot like empyrius rant.

Empyrius, I am a non-denominational follower of Christ with a strong Pentecostal background. Your off the wall ravings give us all a bad name. There are a few countries that will suffer the wrath you describe but it won't be the United States.

empyrious correction
First sentence should have read, "...very unenlightened..." Need to proof my work better.

The government turns all things to dung
This is a paraphrase of that well known thinker and intellectual, Ringo Starr. Still another insightful thinker concluded that the government that governs best, governs least. If Americans were not brain dead or salving their guilt, they could see ever so clearly that what free enterprise can produce, both efficiently and at a low price, government can replicate at five to six times the cost and with no quality assurance (at all). We are governed by morons because we are morons.

Makes sense?
A better question than "why should a CEO make $50 Million" is "Why should the goverment (some politicians who create nothing) be able to DICTATE how much anyone could make, or impose any of hundreds of rules and regulations.

Those who complain about the percentage of the budget is for the military need to ask "what is the proper function of government." That proper function includes ver few things; defense against foreign aggression, protection against internal aggression (police), adjudication of differences (courts). There is very little beyond that which is proper for any givernment...and I don't care if 99.9% of the public wants it.

The Constitution deliberately limits goverment and NOWHERE in it does it say anything about wealth distribution, social engineering, or thousands of other things our government is sticking its nose into.

STGCS(SW) Ret.
STGCS(SW) Ret.
You caught it before I could get it in..lol.
I don't know if you could call empyrius unenlightened as much as just ignorant. No stupid, just unknowledgeable about the quality of the people serving today. Your rating says much about your intelligence and education, your warfare designator says much about your desire to excel.

Thank you for your service & sacrifice to our country and for your fellow citizens.

Taproot
USAF - 71-76
USN(E) - 81-84
USN (O) - 84-94
ARNG (E) - 99-05

Empyrius
Empyrius, I cannot let stand your ignorant and prejudicial attitudes about our military men and women. Not only are they volunteers who know what they are getting into, they do it with no expectation of reward, other than self-satisfaction.
I thank each and every one who comes through my airport security checkpoint, and am so thankful that these fine men and women willing put themselves into harms way to protect us back here.
I have served with them, lead them, and know them to be very educated and highly motivated. Almost all had a HS diploma, many a Bachelors, some a Masters and a few a PhD/EdD. These were enlisted personnel, the officers had even more.
I believe you owe our military personnel, past, present and future an apology and a heartfelt thank you that you can make such an a$$ of yourself due to their sacrifices.

Taproot
USAF - 71-76
USN(E) - 81-84
USN (O) - 84-94
ARNG(E) - 99-05

Makes sense
Impact, you are exactly right. If the federal government followed the Constitution, life would be a lot different today. Much better, in my opinion. If I ever lose it like Richard Speck, I'll go after politicians instead of nurses. I don't see any way of regaining control with so many sucking at the government teat, which has been the Dems' plan all along, I'm sure.

Flame
It's pretty simple why the libs aren't complaining about how much is spent on education. They complain about not enough being spent. The more that is spent, the more they have to indoctrinate our youth, starting at an evermore early age. More money thrown at the gov't schools the better in their views.

I don't know who said it, but it sure rings true.
"I love my country, but fear my government." I have spent the past 35 years, off and on, serving the government in one capacity or another, and I fear it myself

Taproot

Impact
Well said.

Taproot

Taproot
Thanks, and thank you for serving, and serving, and serving...

I see you like to mix it up with some mixed service and broken service. I got out in '74 after 12 years (STGC). Seven years later I found myself back in (STG1)for another 10+. Finished up teaching at SWOSCOLCOM, NETC, Newport, RI.

I have become what seems to be a rare critter. I finished my BS degree just before retiring and my masters degree after I retired. I'm a conservative college professor without a PhD. Yes, we do exist. From my observation there are not many retired military who are liberal, Democrat maybe but not strong liberal Democrats. Many of the faculty members in the department where I teach are ex-military or retired military. Other departments have a high percentage of ex-military or retired military also.

It Ain't Exactly Rocket Surgery

If a shoemaker is making one pair of shoes a day and I can provide him with a couple of new tools and a streamlined process that increases his production to three pairs of shoes per day, wouldn't that be worth it to him to pay me, say a pair of shoes every other day? And if I made this deal available to dozens of shoemakers around the country who accept my proposal, guess what? Shoemakers make MORE money, people get cheaper, better shoes, and I GET RICH without making a single pair of shoes myself. And my ingenuity and creativity is totally misunderstood by everyone except shoemakers. (And some of THEM won't get it.)

How about if I invent a cure for AIDS? Should I get a dime or a dollar from every patient cured? Or should I just be thanked and let go?

Human nature is such that bright people strive to work SMARTER while dull people just continue to plod along. Who is worth more money in compensation? And if millions of dullards want to spend their money to watch guys in shorts dribble and dunk, is it so unreasonable that the best dribblers and dunkers get paid more than average?

When it comes to economic understanding, there are the truly bright guys like von Mises (http://www.mises.org/), Sowell, and Walter E. Williams. Then there are the rest of us.

There are some fairly bright folks who espouse communism/socialism. But communism/socialism is contrary to human nature and will NEVER work outside of a convent. I wonder why otherwise bright people continue to beat a dead horse. Do you suppose it's because Liberalism truly IS a mental disorder?

If liberals could eschew communism/socialism they would find a lot of common ground with some "libertarian" conservatives.

STGCS(SW) Ret
Yep, I kinda enjoyed making the rounds. Decided against the Corps since they are part of the Navy. If you taught any OCS classes, I might have had you as one of my instructors when going through OCS at Newport in 84.
How did you get a professorship with only a Masters? I thought you had to have or be near a PhD for that, or is my ignorance showing?
You must be teaching at one of the schools where conservatives aren't a rare breed.
Taproot

TomBreyer : War On (Some) Drugs
quoth TomBreyer "2) The "War on Drugs" must not be cut. If anything, it should be expanded."

Someone said something about beating a dead horse, and the WO(S)D could certainly fall into that category.

We have been expanding the WO(S)D for more than half a century, and usage has remained surprisingly level. The only thing we have to show for all the Billion$ spent is an ever-increasing prison population, consisting mostly of Hispanics and Blacks.

quoth TomBreyer: "Remember, the vast majority of dealers and users are Democrats anyway and the War on Drugs is the perfect vehicle to put more Democrats in prison...where they belong."

I have to believe you're joking here.

Conservative professor
I was teaching ASW operations, equipment and tactics at department head school from '88-'91. I retired from there mostly because I was too old to be riding old frigates and that's all they offered me. The chances of making Master Chief were slim to none with the force reduction. The last 2 selection cycles they only picked up 1 surface designated E-9 Sonar Tech each time. By then I was in my 40's with an outdated NEC.

I started part time at the college and when they had an opening I applied and was hired as a full time Assistant Professor. I can only teach undergratuate classes and will never make full professor, maybe Associate Professor but that's a long shot. I'm not getting rich but I'm doing what I want where I want so it works for me.

War on drugs
I remember when Fred Thompson retired from the Senate and went into TV (Law & Order, I think) there was a promo in which someone asked him about the war on drugs. Well, he said, we always have to have a war on something. And it seems to be true. Aside from the federal government not having the power to tell people how to treat their own bodies, as opposed to other bodies, it is a huge waste of money. As it is currently administered, the only people who benefit are drug sellers (from artificially high prices) and Congress (who are surely paid to keep the war going).

War On Drugs Is Wrong

No person has a right to interfere with what I choose to put in my body - either for recreation or medication. They DO, however, have a right to sanction my behaviour towards themselves, their families, and society at large.

Because some people respond dangerously to others while "under the influence," many folks mistakenly go after the substance involved. In doing so, they exercise POWER but not RIGHT. They also abuse logic.

Many thousands of people are killed or horribly injured each year by abuse of automobiles, yet nobody is advocating the banning of automobile use - presumably because they, rightly, recognize that the automobile serves a positive function in society, and abuser can be taught better driving habits. Teaching people to drive better, however, requires access to automobile use.

Many researchers have determined that there are a myriad of benefits to responsible alcohol use. I suspect that there are also benefits to responsible recreational drug use, but who can say, since for these many decades such use has been banned. Thus "studies" are nearly impossible to conduct.

I would suggest that a more ethical drug policy would be enactment of severe sanctions against those who commit mayhem while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Thus a person could choose to enjoy a beer while driving knowing that only his BEHAVIOUR would be scrutinized, not his diet.

I don't see such an enlightened approach happening anytime soon in this country, since we don't have the political will to properly sanction even abject murder or child rape as it is.

BlueBustard:"War on Drugs is Wrong"
Drugs = evil
War on Drugs = good

Woe unto them who call evil good and good evil.

2 words:
crack baby

Mountain Rose

Drugs are NOT evil. (Look up evil.) Can you say that morphine is evil? Look at the immense good that its use has provided in the relief of pain.

Also, don't forget that God, in His ultimate Wisdom, neglected to put a high fence around that famous tree in the Garden. He thus gave us our most precious freedom of all - the freedom to fail. The freedom to fail IS the freedom to succeed.

And Who Said,

"...The sins of the father shall be visited upon the son for seven times seven generations?"


MountainRose -- What is Evil?
Are guns evil?

Cigarettes?

Trans-fat?

Driving without a safety belt?

Would you like to hazard a guess as to the ratio of the number of people who died due to injesting marijuana compared to the number of people who died injesting aspirin?

No, MountainRose, you're supposed to be conservative, yes? Not liberal. That is, you're supposed to be smart enough to not assign a "moral value" to inanimate objects, the way, for example, liberals like to demonize guns.

quoth Mountainrose: "Woe unto them who call evil good and good evil."

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

I Erred
My biblical remembrance garbled the part in the Essene Gospel where Jesus referred to the forgiveness of sins of "seven times seven years" with the Ten Commandments where it was "even unto the third and fourth generations."

Uncle Alby- the next time a person's
life is devistated by cigarettes, or by owning a gun for protection, I will call them evil.

Illegal drugs like heroine, crack and PCP make people unable to live normal lives.

If you want to justify your dope smoking, be my guest. But I hope you get caught. And I hope you never succeed in legalizing it.

Just as I hope the libertarians never succeed in legalizing prostitution and all the other distasteful practice they want to "decriminalize."

If you worry about overcrowded jails, then let's speed up the death penalty. Let's follow Iraq's example: Sadaam will be dead within 30 days.

I don't buy the nonsense that we should not enforce the law because people will do it anyway. If we go by that foolishness, then we may as well abandon all law, and just live by the law of the jungle.

How long before we would start seeing vigilante justice? I don't think it is far away now!

UncaAlby
In the end times, we will witness a rise of people who call evil good and good evil.

Hey, that is happening now!

Hold on to your seatbelts and get ready for the Tribulation.

Oh yes, and you better be sure you have chosen wisely. I can't make your choices for you: I can only point out what God says.

Then we will have the chance to see who has the correct interpretation.

Mountain Rose
Your oversimplistic mindset is preventing you from seeing the point.

Again, is morphine evil? Morphine IS illegal - under some circumstances. By your logic, therefore, morphine is evil, despite the fact that it has eased untold pain, made possible healing that would have otherwise been impossible, and so on.

Here's the point: THINGS are not evil. Not guns, not knives, and not drugs. BEHAVIORS are evil - and sometimes people.

you wrote:

"Illegal drugs like heroine, crack and PCP make people unable to live normal lives."

Incorrect. What makes them unable to live normal lives are their own addictions, compulsions, and inner demons. What is evil is the proclivity of some people to abuse substances, to run away from pain or problems that they should be strong enough to deal with.

But you go ahead and be simple-minded, blame the drugs themselves, and refuse to be a grown-up. Just realize that by doing so, you thus empower government tyrrany over your own life. Aren't you proud?

Mountain Rose: One more thing
"Oh yes, and you better be sure you have chosen wisely. I can't make your choices for you: I can only point out what God says."

No, you can only point out what other HUMAN BEINGS have told you that God says. Happy to let other people do your thinking for you, aren't you?

And you say you can't make UncaAlby's choices for him... but you sure seem eager to have the government make YOUR choices for you! At the very least, you seem eager to have the government make *my* choices for ME, and I refuse to knuckle under to that; that is the very definition of tyranny!

disappearing posts
How typical of this land of 'free speech.'

CEO's Vs. Pop Stars
Interesting how CEO's are vilified for making money, but pop stars are not vilified to the same extent for making even more money.

Empyrius
Oh please. As if anyone considers your blather significant enough to censor.

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence." But given your earlier idiocy, I can see where you would jump straight to conspiracy theories.

And yes, this is a land of free speech, freest of anyplace in the world. If you don't like it, feel free to absent yourself from it, and don't let the door hit you in the a$$.

STGCS(SW) Ret.
You know, There are only 2 kinds of ships, submarines and targets!

Anyone who says that our military is uneducated never saw what it is like to go through NNPS.

social justice
The government can't be in the business of dispensing mercy and fairness(social justice). Govt is the business of upholding and enforcing law.

Churches and people and families dispense mercy ie social justice. Only love and God can motivate us to care for the aides patient, the alcoholic, the illegitimate.

There is no 'fair' way to dispense money toward a social problem. Every malady in society would cry "injustice!" if even a dime more was given to a competing cause.

As a mom, wife, sister, daughter, aunt and friend I know that I'm the vehicle for social justice. If I take care of my kids and raise them the best that I can, hopefully they become good citizens contributing to society. If I help my alcoholic brother, hopefully he won't be a menace to you thus draining resources. If I love my gay brother hopefully he won't feel rejected, depressed and stop contributing to society. If I shield my parents from pain and concern hopefully they'll live long happy lives and need less from the system.

You can't institutionalize mercy/fairness (ie social justice), because mercy comes from love and love comes from God. The government can't love you and they can't sanitize your bad choices. We all want someone to stop the insanity of bad choices, but we won't go so far as to call it a 'bad choice' AND we don't want to be the first one to stop making bad choices. It's so intolerant of anyone to expect us to make good life choices. The government is there to subsidize my bad choices.

If you make stupid choices in life you should pay the consequences, not me through social programs ie social justice. If you gamble away your savings and a man becaomes rich because he invested his savings, why should he be penalized for your stupidity? There is no 'fair' in life. We can only hope to make good choices consistently.

There is a more sinister undercurrent in the social justice movement, it's an attempt to replace the mercy of God through churches and people with governmental social programs. It can't be successful because it never asks anyone to change.

dbz77 don't forget the
sports stars. Talk about overpaid!

It always makes me smile
To see the Hollywood political know it alls pontificating. I don't know why they command such ridiculous sums of money, they are actually today's version of the court jesters or fools.

Farmer's Wife
You miss the point: No, they are NOT overpaid, because what they get paid is determined as a function of the exact same market that determines the salaires of CEOs, rock stars, movie stars, and the rest. These market forces are impersonal, and are the aggregate of millions of tiny economic decisions, made by individual consumers. Every person who watches a football game on TV, every person who buys a basketball jersey or a baseball card, helps set the wages earned by "overpaid" sports stars, just as moviegoers and DVD buyers set the salaries of "overpaid" movie stars, and consumers of every known product set the earnings packages of "overpaid" CEOs. This is what a free market economy DOES.

Do you get it yet?

Meg

You nailed it, kiddo. Individual choice, individual liberty make the whole thing work (or not work.) Do positive things on the individual level ONLY.

The word "government" itself means: INHIBITING - like a "governor" on a school bus engine. And so it justly and rightfully should be similarly constrained, "government" should be governed (by the governed) in such a way that it makes only negative interventions, and NEVER positive interventions, in lives of the citizens it deigns to protect.

A proper government should prohibit certain actions but should never mandate positive actions. For example, "Thou shalt not kill," but NOT "Thou shalt help flood victims." Leave the crack babies and the flood victims to the charities. If no charities rise to the occasion, perhaps the poor suffering blighters aren't worthy of charity but rather a kick in the pantaloons. (Next time, build on higher ground.)


FergusMacLennan got it
but since I DONT' do any of those things, as far as I am concerned they are overpaid. If more attention were paid to academics in high schools the students might at least be literate and know some American history.

Thanks Fergus
Now I don't have to go into detail to explain to Farmer's Wife. Referencing my first post, "It Ain't Exactly Rocket Surgery," I wrote:

"Human nature is such that bright people strive to work SMARTER while dull people just continue to plod along. Who is worth more money in compensation? And if millions of dullards want to spend their money to watch guys in shorts dribble and dunk, is it so unreasonable that the best dribblers and dunkers get paid more than average?"

You said it much better.

patriotically deluded ones
While there is nothing new with the poor fighting for the rich mans’ benefit, to say what ‘we’ did to the Native ‘Americans,’ African ‘Americans,’ Central Americans, South Americans, Pacific Islanders, Asians; always cloaked under the mindless moniker of God, freedom, and ‘democracy’ is not only hypocritically disgraceful, it is an affront against the very life, teachings, death, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

And any who kill another and invoke God at the same time only repeat a timelessly worn-out battle-cry of conquering nations.’ As has been empirically proven so far in life, violence ever begets further violence, and the corruption of Scripture has only led to the U.S. being a bloodthirsty war-like nation whose need for continued monetary profits, economic markets, and natural resources, has kept us in a virtual state of perpetual war since this nation was founded: indeed, at what time in our nation’s history have we not been fighting somebody or another? Our genocidal war against the Native ‘Americans’ lasted for centuries, our ungodly practice of slavery lasted likewise for centuries, only being abolished after the North could no longer tolerate the Southern aristocracy for making so much ‘good’ free money. No sooner had ‘we’ thoroughly vanquished the Native ‘Americans’ in the late 1800s we then went about the task of stealing more land and resources from the French and Spanish.

And in the 20th century American imperialism continued at a unparallel pace, as we set up murderous dictators in nations the world over, and then murdering them if they did not our bidding, Saddam Hussein being the most recent example, and virtually every nation in the Western hemisphere having felt the unholy might of American militarism. And of course, as always, God-fearing grunt patriots lead they way . . .

FergusMacLennan, Sawdust, STGCS(SW), Taproot: patriotism is commonly the first refuge of murderous scoundrels . . .

May Christ forgive you.

Peace

Typical Drug "Logic"
I asked a simple question -- How many people have died from marijuana, compared to aspirin? Do you happen to know? Would you CARE to know?

I'm sure somebody knows the answer.

But in response to my post, MountainRose decided to ignore the question and climb up on her podium and commence with the bible-thumping. I can just smell the brimstone from here.

Nothing wrong with that, mind you. It's just entirely irrelevant. The Bible makes no mention about PCP, crack, or heroin, and I would have to presume therefore that God doesn't particularly mind.

But any way, to my subject line -- Drug "Logic".

I bring up marijuana, and MR mentions that PCP, crack, and heroin users are "unable to live normal lives." That is a typical absense of logic; nevermind the limited factual basis.

Marijuana, compared to other "recreational pharmeceauticals", is probably the most benign substance on God's green earth. Heroin, among other things, has problems to be sure, and probably should be regulated -- but how does the necessity to regulate heroin translate into putting people in jail for marijuana?

It doesn't. But that's all we hear from the drug warriors.

Estimates are that 15 to 30 million people in the US use marijuana regularly, and only a couple million use heroin. So why are we using heroin as a rationale to prohibit marijuana? Except, perhaps, it's difficult to justify a larger budget for something with so few abusers?

It's sickening. The thousands of lives that have been ruined, destroyed, not by the "evil" drugs, but by the drug warriors; by the busy-body "moralists" who've never met a vice they wouldn't prohibit by force of law. The "do-gooders" who feel they can't get to Heaven unless they drag everyone else in, kicking and screaming, as well.

That's the typical logic from the gun grabbers as well. That's why I used that example. Liberals feel that guns are "evil", and so must be controlled or banned. Conservatives are supposed to know better than that.

We want to assure that the citizenry keeps their right to bear arms, to have rifles, pistols, and be able to carry them without fear of government intervention. And so the gun grabbers will talk about "Assault Rifles" and "Bazookas", and "Tanks". SO, because we rightfully don't want Joe Blow running around with a Tactical Nuke, we therefore make it illegal to own a six-shooter.

The logic also makes its way into banning cigarettes -- safety belts -- helmets -- what color you can paint your front door ("My GAWD, what if somebody paints it POLKA DOT with STRIPES!? We can NOT ALLOW that!") -- you name it.

Ladies and gentlemen, we are slowly but surely losing our liberties, make no mistake. I wish I could stack up our Freedom Accomplishments against our Control Accomplishments without getting depressed.

What was that about boiling a frog?

WOW, empyrius!

Settle down, man. I've got to re-read your post before I can respond to it. I noticed a couple of gems in there, but they seem to be hidden in a veritable landslide of contradictory verbiage and assumptions....

More later

For Meg -- Future vs. Past Tense
quoth Meg: "There is no 'fair' way to dispense money toward a social problem. Every malady in society would cry "injustice!" if even a dime more was given to a competing cause."

Not "would" cry -- DOES cry!

What was that about the Republic lasting until the people figure out they can vote themselves part of the treasury?

Empyrius
When you wrote "what ‘we’ did to the Native ‘Americans,’ African ‘Americans,’ Central Americans, South Americans, Pacific Islanders, Asians," you put the word "we" in quotation marks.

I am quite glad you did that.

Leftists like you absolutely adore bemoaning what "we" did to the Native Americans, and endlessly bring up the notion of reparations for what "we" did to the innocent black Africans who were kidnapped, brought to America, and sold into slavery.

The simple fact is that this implied responsibility of the latter generation for the sins of the former is complete fiction, first, last and always. Neither I nor anyone I know ever bought a slave or massacred a Native American. You continually evoke God, Christ, and the Bible, and yet you ignore the fact that sins are individual things; despite the delusions of leftists ignorami like yourself, there is no reality to this concept of "group sins." If and when God judges me, He will judge me for *my* sins, not my forefathers'. All else is a fantasy concocted by people who apparently find comfort in feeling imagined guilt for things they never actually did, rather than confronting their real guilt for things they actually did.

Unfortunately, this same, ignorant perspective informs the entirety of your posting. What little point you might have had to make, where Iraq and recent conflicts are concerned, is tarnished by association, and by the continuity of your thinking. You ignore the real faults and virtues of the rationale for war in the Middle East, favoring instead the castle you have built on the sand of your ignorant assumptions.

Finally, and most egregiously, you buy into the tired old "violence begets only violence" nonsense. The point is not that it's not true; the point is that violence is so much a part of the human condition that the implied remedy - forswearing all violence - is a ludicrous invitation to annhilation. Violence may beget violence, but violence is sometimes - and sadly, far too often - the only sane response to violence. "Turn the other cheek" may be the perfect, Christ-like response to violence on an individual basis, but for a nation to adopt that approach would be madness. A nation has a responsibility to protect its citizens, and any nation that fails in that responsibility is damned.

As for the rest of what you wrote: blow it out your ear, and worry about the beam in thine own eye. Get thee behind me.

People Do It Anyway
quoth MountainRose: "I don't buy the nonsense that we should not enforce the law because people will do it anyway. If we go by that foolishness, then we may as well abandon all law, and just live by the law of the jungle."

Strawman.

Actually, the original argument would also be a strawman, but erecting another one against it doesn't prove much.

It's not a matter of enforcing or not enforcing a law based on how many people follow it.

The fact that so few people follow a given law is merely a side-effect of a bad law. That's not the only side-effect of bad laws, and laws being bad isn't the only reason people break them.

How many people deliberately drive on the wrong side of the street? How many people deliberately skip through red lights? How many people walk into a convenience store and relieve the clerk of the cash register? etc.

How many people violated the 55mph speed limit, vs. how many people violate today's speed limits?

Good laws don't have as many problems with enforcement. The 55mph law, for example, was virtually unenforceable, because almost no one followed it. If the police were to ticket everyone going 65 or higher, there would have been public outrage. Nevada handed out $5 tickets, which most people didn't mind (much), just so they could tell the Feds that, "Yes, we're enforcing the law, please give us our highway money."

So, let's not say that a law should or should not exist based on the percentages of the people who follow it -- instead, lets look at the percentages of the people who follow it (among other things), and ask ourselves, WHY are so many people disregarding this particular law?

Is it inconvenient? Is it enforced? Have the people been informed of the law? Does the law contradict or supersede some other law? Or is it, perhaps, just a bad law?

If it's a bad law, repeal it. Drug laws are bad laws, and should be repealed.

empyrius
I like the point you make about invoking God while commiting murder. There is a fine point that God put upon it if you believe what the bible says, (Matthew 5:38) I paraphrase, "Resist not evil - turn the other cheek." God, or Jesus, as you wish, does not, however advocate "Wimpism." A person (or nation) can develop personal power to such an extent that none dare challenge him in unrighteous combat. In such cases (Aikido comes to mind) it is possible to walk through the valley of the shadow of death, fear no evil, preserve your own life, and still do no harm to others. Unfortunately, America is only a blue belt.



Your most obvious error is your reference to "American imperialism" as if it were a recognized fact or a formalized long-standing element of American policy over the many decades of this county's existence. Such is not, nor has it ever been the case. Let me remind you that America is now and has always been a conglomeration of saints and sinners, knights and ladies, religious and irreligious, inspired and uninspired, all railing against tyranny of any sort. We haven't had TIME for proper imperialism. That's not to say that we haven't dabbled in it, but we remain rank amateurs in the grand history of imperialism. We are a country that fights internally amongst ourselves so much that it is rare indeed that we ever have presented a unified face to the rest of the world.

And there was NEVER a unified effort to emasculate the American "Indians," steal their land or their cultures. There have been shameful instances of abuse of these indiginous peoples in this country, but there has never been an agreed-upon policy except to honestly deal with them. That policy has been administered over the years by INDIVIDUALS, some of whom have performed poorly. That doesn't taint the entirety of the United States of America.

But mostly you talk of the US as if it were the same entity for all of its existence. It remains an accretion of ideas and people - with all their inspirations, frailties, genius and corruption. What inspires the greatness of this country is its institutionalized individual liberty. The institutionalization of individual liberty was - and remains - a revolutionary concept in the history of man.

So we zig and zag our way through life.

Addendum

And regarding "Imperialism," we totally subjugated Germany, Italy, and Japan at the close of WWII.

Who controls those countries today? And how did they come to do so?

The Drug War
1) The issue is not whether drugs allow people to live a normal life. The issue is that people with heavy-duty drug habits cannot hold down a job. If they can't hold down a job, then they either become wards of the state, starve to death, or wreak havoc on their loved ones because of their indigent status. It is simply not possible to take a libertarian approach to the drug problem and claim that allowing people to "take" whatever they want is reasonable. Externalities are too great.

2) The issue is not how many people die taking aspirin as opposed to marijuana. People who are "on" aspirin can still run a cash register, or drive a truck, or process an order, or try a case, or even perform surgery. People who are high on drugs cannot do these things. In other words, basic human functioning is not impaired when people are taking aspirin.

3) The fact that we have had a drug war for decades yet drug use keeps going up is not the proper way to measure the success of the War on Drugs. Basically, the real purpose of the drug war is to keep drugs out of the hands of the middle class, because it is the middle classes that hold American society together. The drug war is effective at keeping drugs out of the middle class because middle classes have a lot more to lose than the poor (who are largely dysfunctional and lack responsibility) and they don't have the resources of the rich (who lack accountability because they can buy their way out of trouble.)

Drug use continues to go up in this country because the number of rich and poor people also keep going up. The rich and the poor are not affected by the incentive systems setup by the drug war and, frankly, who really cares? Is it really a loss to society if a prostitute or a Paris Hilton-type gets addicted? Prostitutes produce nothing and Paris Hilton's money will continue to be employed whether or not she OD's. The same cannot be said for the accountant with two kids and mortgage. His loss is devastating.

Think of it this way. Is the War on Crime a failure because the prison population keeps going up? Should we therefore end the War on Crime?

4) I am completely serious when I see the drug war as a vehicle for putting Democrats in jail. After all, the vast majority of people arguing in favor of "prison reform" or ending the Drug War are Democrats. Why is that? Why would they make such arguments unless it was benefitting them in some way? Well, it must be because they know Democrats are more likely to be criminals, more likely to violate the law, more likely to chaff against social norms, and, therefore, more likely to end up in prison. So in arguing against the drug war, the Democrat wants to free more Democrats for political gain. Therefore, the drug war must never end and it must be expanded.

Capitalism Is A "Coined" Word

And I reject its use. Marx used the word originally to distinguish between "state" capital and "private" capital.

EVERY economic construct in the history of man utilizes "capital" to make itself work.

A word that means everything means nothing.

A More Reasonable Construct Is

"Libertarian Economy." Free people get the job done with a surplus.

The tired old liberal story about "teaching a man to fish" is bested by the libertarian ideal of simply learning to fish more fish than you need to survive - an excess of fish.

What's to become of the excess fish?

Why you trade them for shoes........

Addendum

My daddy used to sit in the boat and hum....And catch many more fish than we could eat.

He would give the excess fish to neighbors.

He used to tell me, "Bub, you gotta hold your mouth right and hum the right tune in order to really bring them into the boat. Then GIVE THEM AWAY or else you'll ruin your life with greed.

Eat beef now and then or die of rightousness.

Sowell's disdain for workers
I can't help but wonder what happened to Thomas Sowell growing up which makes him so contemptuous of the working poor.

I can't help but wonder how he is so oblivious to the destruction of the middle class of America today by the corporate elite and their puppets in Congress.

There was a time in this country not too many years ago when a man could have one job for 20 to 30 years, buy and pay for a decent home in a good neignborhood, educate his children and pay for their college and retire and take care of his health care in his declining years. That's disappearing for the average worker.

If you don't know it, you ain't paying attention to what's happening to personal savings and REAL home ownership.

You people who spew "liberal this...liberal that" who are looking for someone, anyone but the real culprits to blame, scapegoats and bogeymen, ARE the problem.

If you're one of them DIDIOTS - that's an idiot who has nothing much more than "dittos Rush" to say, then you are beyond help anyway.

Good luck in your future. You're going to need it.

continuing discussions
Leftists are as corrupt as conservatives, one millionaire politician or another, their differences are less than nothing. They distract the masses with insignificant ‘issues’ such as global warming, abortion, same-sex marriage, flag-burning, and other such meaningless political minutiae. In the meanwhile “the top 5 percent [of the American population] has more wealth than the remaining 95 percent of the population, and the richest 10 percent own 85 percent of all stock” (http://[DELINKER]multinationalmonitor.org/mm2003/03may/may03interviewswolff.html).

This is the true cause of ‘our’ endless wars, and the media/industrial/military conglomerates with the blessings of the government have programmed the masses with patriotism in a base subterfuge that has blinded us to the true terrorists—our oligarchical government and the Ivy League co-opted scholars and their billionaire funders. Verily they recycle the same people and the same money between top university posts, and top government think-tanks, that do nothing other than perpetuate the status quo.

Capitalism needs people to exploit, that is what capitalism is, you live you die, and either the government or the banker gets your property and money, or a lawyer divvys it up for the children. You pay taxes upon taxes, to support the government to wage more wars and make more laws. The middle class pays the lions share of the taxes, and the richest are barely taxed at all. Insurance is a massive scam when the only insurance we should actually have is each other. Lawyers are a completely unnecessary component of a truly civilized society, and if we do ever collectively live long enough to have a civilized nation upon this planet the day of the lawyer shall be naught but a hideous memory of our barbaric past. Truth finding tribunals is all that is needed.

Just b/c there has always been rich poor does not mean there always has to be rich and poor. The Old Law is dead, long live the Word of the King. You cannot pick and choose which laws befit your government, and which are fallen by the wayside; when to sacrifice a baby or a ram or the son of the poor man . . .

Or put in another way, “Today the top 400 income earners in the U.S. make as much in a year as the entire population of the 20 poorest countries in Africa (over 300 million people). But in America, national leaders and mainstream media tell us that the only way out of our own economic hole is through increasing and endless growth—fueled by the resources of other countries” (http://[DELINKER]www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/1.html.

Or in an even starker statistic, “In the United States wealth is highly concentrated and very un-equally distributed: the richest 1% hold one third of the total wealth in
the economy” (Wealth inequality: data and models¤. Marco Cagetti; August 17, 2005).

Americans are relentlessly impelled to be good little consumers for whose benefit? Americans have been sold the lie that only the promise of money and profit can bring the necessary forces together that shall make possible the manufacture of pencils and computers, when in truth only by the spirit of cooperation shall humankind be able to survive the 21st century. Indeed, as the worldwide population increases politicians shall soon begin to say that war will be necessary to eradicate large numbers of humanity to overcome Malthusian prognostications, as we have so often been told that only war-making, and the promise of profit, breeds technological innovation.

Our blinding patriotism has left us blind to the overwhelming laws that now stifle the common man, indeed the U.S. has more laws than any nation in the history of our world, and we also have the largest bureaucracy, and the largest police force known to mankind. Our prison system is overflowing with drug and drug-related (notably gun charges) offenders (aye a prison population larger than India and China combined), who would otherwise never have had any legal issues if drugs were decriminalized; and yet the paranoid mindset of middle America still suffers of the propaganda such as Reefer Madness that old money perpetrated upon the masses.

For all of the money spent on building more prisons, hiring more worthless prosecutors and public defenders, and hiring more ex-military dudes to be prison guards, America could have instead utilized those untold billions to have offered the training and education to make all U.S. citizens doctors/engineers/mathematicians. Yet, we need to have a servant class eh. If all were compatibly educated wherefore then would be the cotton pickers, janitors, and plumbers. Your glass-ceilings and stained-glass ceilings are not solely feminist issues but rather the very issues that keep the poor locked into despair and lack of opportunity; in order for there to be rich there must be poor, tis the law of economics. The question is moot whether they, the poor, are in Africa, South America, or urban America; the left-overs of the white man’s capitalist exploitation are felt worldwide.

And as far as buying into "violence begets only violence" ‘nonsense’ there has never been an age of peace, to contrast the notion that violence begets peace, so holding the dictum that peace does beget peace, is an as of yet untried ideal. Or, if we do subscribe to drolmorg’s assertion that ‘life ain’t nice, and never has been,’ we are then placed no higher on the scale of life than merely self-reflecting animals whose only real accomplishments are Beethoven’s ninth, and the fact that we can know kill by remote control. Progress? Nay! Religion is left as a useless tool to appease your guilt and not otherwise commit suicide.

Finally, I do appreciate your thoughts there BlueBustard, as well as the other militant posters here; rattling cages is fun, as Christ himself was the ultimate non-violent cage-rattler 2000 years ago. If one reads the book of Isaiah meticulously one will find that humanity shall come upon a point to where through a universal movement of peace we may be able to circumvent certain eschatological Apocalyptic interpretations of Scripture. The choice is ours, yet pre-emptive wars of choice shall never get us there. As BlueBustard noted, it is the individuals choice to not kill for the government—period! As one stands before the One and only Lord Almighty, ‘just following orders’ shall be no defense.

Peace

corrections
Just b/c there has always been rich [&] poor . . .

the fact that we can [now] kill by remote control

Leftists gripe? Guess what!
Santa, in the form of our federal government, disappoints us conservative kids every year. A stocking full coal was NOT on our wish list.

We do have a Wish List, though, and apparently it's too tall an order for Santa.

Please let us have all our Constitutional rights back. Please give back to us the money which rightly belongs to us. Please help us preserve our wonderful country.

The liberal Scrooge, Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, has a "coal in your stocking" agenda.

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Yes! OUR things!

The lib posters echo the same mindset. Geez! It reminds me of a cult...one which insists a government must decide how we spend what we earn.

For all of you who have posted very intelligent and sense-filled reasons for conservatism, I couldn't ask for better! Anything I'd like to say would be repetitious, yet here I go.

For anyone who is outraged with the mindboggling salaries of some people, they can be effective. Just don't go to ballgames and movies, don't buy every new electronic device on the market (you're kids don't need it all either), AND if the cost of housing has reached beyond the good salary a HUSBAND earns, the price will simply have to come in line with what the average person can afford.

I believe the two-income household has contributed to the overpriced market. Ergo, the mom-at-home family still has to meet the current market value.







Glad there are Rich people
I am very glad that there are people who make a lot more money than I do. I'm a self-employed housepainter, and the more rich people there are in my locality, the more painting jobs I get. Simple as that.
I don't begrudge how much they make, I charge what my service is worth, they charge their customers, clients, employers, what they are worth.
No poor person ever wrote a check to me.

Legalize Drugs??.....
About 70-75% of the inmates in jails are in for drug related offenses (possession and/or usage). Legalizing drugs would empty our jails. Making it possible for violent felons to do long, hard time!! But it would put the druggies out on the streets. Pick your poison. I vote for keeping violent felons behind bars for a longer time.

asgeorge
I have an even better idea, how about we cut off all the programs not listed as functions of the federal gov't. You want to point at the military, but national defense is one of the jobs of the federal gov't. How about we cut out all social spending? You won't find those in the constitution. Or get rid of the Dept of Education? I know you liberals always want to slash the military, right up until you need us to defend you and the country. Then, you'll sit back and point fingers and blame the military for not being prepared.

gamecock
You think Sowell has didain for thepoor workers? Please explain how so? In fact, Mr Sowell supports our free market system that allows these poor the upward mobility in society. That means they have the freedom to work and learn, then tomorrow, they can get a better job or better pay for their efforts. Would you prefer a socialist system that does not reward them for their efforts? You ask why people can't afford to live off 1 income as they did in years past? Quite simply, our gov't has gotten so large that it always needs more of our tax dollars to pay for itself. If I didn't have to pay for all the taxes in our country, I might be able to let my wife choose to work or stay at home. Medical care would be cheaper as well if the gov't got out of it. That's why it cost so much, because Medicare will pay the cost, so they charge what the gov't will pay. Guess what, the gov't is paying w/ my money, and yours and everyone else who pays taxes. A smaller gov't would make it easier to see the world you are dreaming of, but socialism won't. That simply makes everyone the same.

Gamecock1969

You obviously have never LISTENED to Rush Limbaugh. If you had, you would know that he is very upbeat about America - VERY upbeat.

The degredation of our currency you describe occured during the fifties through early eighties. It was a willful, intentional debasement of our currency conducted by politicians who controlled the printing press in the basement. They merely printed more money in lieu of tax increases - thus they were able to spend more in secret. Who paid for that? You and me through debased currency.

When Nixon killed the meagre linkage between our currency and gold, that just about assured the death of the dollar.

And don't get me started on the "Fed!"

!!

Lydia
Usually you delight me with your comments. However...........

Today you dissapoint me. If you did any research at all you would find Bill Gates and his foundation donate better than 50 million dollars a year to grade school and intermediate education right here in the goof ol' U.S.

Maybe ya ought to pick on someone else. Bill does more than his fair share when it comes to domestic charity.

And by the way as far as I can figure out, he votes Repub. As I am a Microsof Partner I can vouch for these figures. While I disagree alot with some of his business practices, I commend him for his charity work. He and his mother have been instrumental in getting computers into low income school districts. I recommend you look it up.

gamecock1969
Hmmmmmm...

I'm confused asshat. How is it the ownership of private homes per capita is higher now than in the history of this country if things are as bad as you say they are?

You need to look up a few facts before you spout your socialist BS here. We deal in facts, not fantasy. Perhaps you need to show us a link to never never land where you got this BS idea.

It is a known fact everywhere in my universe that there are more homes owned by low income and middle class people than there has been since the beginning of this country. In short, anyone whith a 40 hour a week job can own a home in this country provide they are willing to keep the bills paid. Where exactly are you getting your info from, the defunct Soviet Union perhaps? Cuba? China? or another one of your so called utopias?

In short, you are full of guano!

A dangerous obsession
BlueBustard
"The degredation of our currency you describe occured during the fifties through early eighties."
WRONG! The purchasing power of the US$ instantly fell from ~$20/oz of gold the day FDR issued the EO that forbid Americans to own gold coins--1933--followed by the SCOTUS 'Gold Clause' decision ca 1936. Off the gold standard, the US$ has continually depreciated by, so far, ~95-97%. google AIER and ask for their latest Book of Charts.
Fiat currency is the politicians' life blood. And that is why families NEED 2+ incomes to survive and to pay ever-increasing taxes.


Child and slavery Threat To Justice
http://www.controlcongress.com

This was a very interesting article I found on The Conservative Voice. Do you think slave labor should be a moral issue in trade deals?

TCV-In the US, slavery was outlawed at the national level in 1865. “Oppressive child labor” was outlawed at the US national level in 1938. Yet child labor persists around the world as national and multinational companies seek lower labor costs and greater profits. Adult consumers around the world benefit with cheap goods made with child labor.

Will worldwide morality over this issue become so great that all countries will banish child labor forever as they did the once prevalent black slavery? Or will the benefits that accrue to consumers and corporations by child labor prevail? Will economics trump morality or not? Stanly asked. Read the rest of this entry »


stuff
1. there have been as many right-wing dictators (suharto in indonesia, bautista in cuba, christiani in el salvador, samoza in nicaragua, pinochet in chile, not to mention, hitler, mussolini, and franco) as leftist ones, if not more...

2. members of the working class work longer and harder than any rich man ever will, and are lucky if they can save a dollar a day

3. if you think we should reduce government spending, do you support?:

* no subsidies for any industry (sugar, oil, tobacco, etc)
* legalized drugs
* an end to corporations, which would not exist in a "free" market as they are created only though LAWS and create imaginary entities of limited liability. In Adam Smith universe, there are no corporations, only individuals.

if you do support these things as I do, I hope you will speak out about it

Pointing out that there is inequality of income and power and wanting to do something about it does not make one a socialist. Siding with the rich on every issue does not make one a conservative.


drugs
1. a true conservative position is to legalize drugs. The constitution does not give congress the power to legislate on this issue, and in a free country, adults can do what they want. "Keeping the middle class productive" with jail time for stoners sounds a lot like tyrannical, communist social-engineering.

2. no effort to eradicate native americans and their culture? You are not well-schooled in american history, friend. There sure was.

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/Histories__Narratives__Documen/Documents_on_Native_American_G/Revised_Apology.pdf

3. What you call "reality" is just the state of nature. We don't live in that - we are civilized. So once human beings "fell from innocence", there's no more "war of all against all" - we live with rules, agreements, ethics. Leftists envision using our creative powers , intelligence, and compassion to mold a society where people suffer less. Right wingers envision making money for the few who are ruthless enough to claw their way over the decent folks to the "top".

4. Jesus (yeshua ben yossef) is in our side. Read the beatitudes.



capitalism
let's get this straight:

In a capitalist economy, there will ALWAYS be a vast majority of working poor and a minority of rich. That is what capitalism means: that capital (ie: investment, not labor) determines who controls production and who gets the profit. Without a vast underclass, who's gonna work in factories? Who's gonna pick up trash? You can't have a capitalist society of rich people, or even of middle class people. You can't have a capitalist society of small-business owners only. There will be and must be more workers byowners, and by a very large ratio.

So you might think this is fine, and that's valid (though i disagree). But dont give us this crap that capitalism is going to allow workers to get more and more money and one day they are all going to be rich.

Here's the reality: It's labor unions, more than any other institution, that have improved the standard of living here over the last 100 years. Without them, the government and capitalist owners were quite happy to have 7 day workweeks, 14 hour (or more) work days at the lowest possible wages. There were no safety regulations. There were no paid vacations. All that was fought for, at great cost to life and limb, by unions.

There's nothing socialist about it. The union members were defending their interests by organizing themselves, just like corporations do.




1971 book: political conspiracy exposed
Subject: Gary Allen: None Dare call it a conspiracy (1971)

text online:

http://reactor-core.org/none-dare.html#chapter4

A political conspiracy is far more lethal than a criminal conspiracy (eg Cosa Nostra)

The scheming of the Wall Street Bankers, International Bankers, Federal Reserve and Industrial monopolists and their useful idiots (ie socialists) have created blood and horror...

anyone who wants to know why both Democrat and Republican parties are tools of the conspirators should read this book - and I challenge anyone to refute the facts in this book...

well done America - since WWI the US has pushed country after country into communism to enrich the corrupt capitalists and bankers

WWII was another victory for the communists

each "revolution" and war was planned and financed by these boys...

every American should learn more about the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) ; Trilaterial Commission and Bilderbergers and Federal Reserve - since these are the real governing institutions of the USA...the White House is a diversionary tactic...
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