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Tuesday, November 28, 2006
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Who really cares?
by Thomas Sowell
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More frightening than any particular beliefs or policies is an utter lack of any sense of a need to test those beliefs and policies against hard evidence. Mistakes can be corrected by those who pay attention to facts but dogmatism will not be corrected by those who are wedded to a vision.

One of the most pervasive political visions of our time is the vision of liberals as compassionate and conservatives as less caring. It is liberals who advocate "forgiveness" of loans to Third World countries, a "living wage" for the poor and a "safety net" for all.

But these are all government policies -- not individual acts of compassion -- and the actual empirical consequences of such policies are of remarkably little interest to those who advocate them. Depending on what those consequences are, there may be good reasons to oppose them, so being for or against these policies may tell us nothing about who is compassionate or caring and who is not.

A new book, titled "Who Really Cares" by Arthur C. Brooks examines the actual behavior of liberals and conservatives when it comes to donating their own time, money, or blood for the benefit of others. It is remarkable that beliefs on this subject should have become conventional, if not set in concrete, for decades before anyone bothered to check these beliefs against facts.

What are those facts?

People who identify themselves as conservatives donate money to charity more often than people who identify themselves as liberals. They donate more money and a higher percentage of their incomes.

It is not that conservatives have more money. Liberal families average 6 percent higher incomes than conservative families.

You may recall a flap during the 2000 election campaign when the fact came out that Al Gore donated a smaller percentage of his income to charity than the national average. That was perfectly consistent with his liberalism.

So is the fact that most of the states that voted for John Kerry during the 2004 election donated a lower percentage of their incomes to charity than the states that voted for George W. Bush.

Conservatives not only donate more money to charity than liberals do, conservatives volunteer more time as well. More conservatives than liberals also donate blood.

According to Professor Brooks: "If liberals and moderates gave blood at the same rate as conservatives, the blood supply of the United States would jump about 45 percent."

Professor Brooks admits that the facts he uncovered were the opposite of what he expected to find -- so much so that he went back and checked these facts again, to make sure there was no mistake.

What is the reason why some people are liberals and others are conservatives, if it is not that liberals are more compassionate?

Fundamental differences in ideology go back to fundamental assumptions about human nature. Based on one set of assumptions, it makes perfect sense to be a liberal. Based on a different set of assumptions, it makes perfect sense to be a conservative.

The two visions are not completely symmetrical, however. For at least two centuries, the vision of the left has included a belief that those with that vision are morally superior, more caring and more compassionate.

While both sides argue that their opponents are mistaken, those on the left have declared their opponents to be not merely in error but morally flawed as well. So the idea that liberals are more caring and compassionate goes with the territory, whether or not it fits the facts.

Those on the left proclaimed their moral superiority in the 18th century and they continue to proclaim it in the 21st century. What is remarkable is how long it took for anyone to put that belief to the test -- and how completely it failed that test.

The two visions are different in another way. The vision of the left exalts the young especially as idealists while the more conservative vision warns against the narrowness and shallowness of the inexperienced. This study found young liberals to make the least charitable contributions of all, whether in money, time or blood. Idealism in words is not idealism in deeds.

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About The Author
Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Very informative Dr. Sowell
We've know for a long time that Liberals 'Talk' but Conservatives 'Do.' It's so easy to try and tell others what to do with their money while hording their own.

And of course we can expect the Liberal posters here to attack the new book and probably the author himself. Facts mean nothing to a Liberal.

Excellent!
C'mon, now. Lefties are too busy protesting to do anything else.

He forgot Kerry
I remember it came out before the '04 election that Kerry had given a pretty pitiful sum to charity the previous year. It was so low that it should have embarrased the Demo party. I remember it being under $1000.00. Well under. If the Demos were actually capable of being embarrassed, he would have declined the nomination over that alone.

The only reason this sticks in my head is because when I heard what Kerry gave to charity, it was right after I had written a $2000.00 check to a Tucson charity that helped Somali refugees out. I compared that with the fact that Kerry is worth 30,000 times what I am worth, and the $2k was about half of what I gave that year to charity.

I'm not trying to brag, I'm just stating fact. Liberals seem to think the only charity out there is Uncle Sam, and they forget where he gets his money.

Yes I am too a narrow-minded bigot.
We do understand the danger that liberal blood represents to the national emergency blood supply: it's all HIV infected.

And of course liberals have more money. Gays don't have children, you see (children are very expensive).

And liberals give puh-lenty to charity. It's called taxes.

Hope that clears things up.

J
http://forgottenprophets.blogspot.com

What if our kids never learn to give?
Most of the liberals I know are both too young and too foolish to understand the principles involved in giving. As they mature, there is always the hope and the prayer of our nation that those dazed and college-confused young people will begin to finally realize the principle of reciprocity in their lives. If they don't, God help us right-thinking baby boomers as we age uncomfortably in their midst. All talk and no action makes for a bunch of boring blowhards. Does kind of remind one of Al Gore and John Kerry---doesn't it?

Fletch

Excellent post... why don't you have a blog? :-)

- Primus54

Another myth
Here's another myth: liberals are more open-minded than conservatives. I had a chance to test this thirty years ago when a professional soccer team came to town. At that time, not many knew much about soccer, but I naturally assumed that liberals would support the team and conservatives would see it as a threat to the American way of life. But it was the conservatives who attended the games while the liberals stayed away.

Fletch / Peggy
I agree with Primus54. Excellent post!

Peggy:

Right on! The young college brainwashed Liberal idiots live in La La Land. Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Hillary and now Poleski. Are their hero's!

Liberals love Mankind and hate People
The problem with the Liberals (and with all Canadians in politics, because they are socialists) is that they embrace Mankind the group, and either they deny the existence of, or despise, individual people.

I have told numerous residents of Kanukistan that when the terrorists blow up the building they are working in, many of them will die on the telephone trying to get TheGovernment to come and save them.

Liberals believe they are "doing something about World Hunger" when they buy and wear a We Are The World t-shirt, and members of Liberal churches march through the streets -- past those who need their assistance -- yelling through their bullhorns that famous statement that Jesus never made: "Force the Government to Feed My Sheep!"

Conservatives are quietly helping their neighbours one by one, when they are made aware of the need. When somebody finds an abandoned baby, it's Conservatives who light up the switchboards offering to take that baby in; the Liberals are out screaming that if we only had 'affordable' abortion, these problems wouldn't arise.

Liberals believe everything can be solved by A Program. Conservatives show up at the door with groceries.

And the reason is that Liberals and Socialists cannot see individual human beings; to them, because there is no Individual, there is no Individual Responsibility. Liberals demand that some other Group create A Program to Do Something. Conservatives say "What can I do?"

Fletch,So true...
Great post, Fletch. Whenever the subject of "what liberals do" comes up, I am always telling the story of my Mutti. She had to use welfare for a time...couldn't hold a job that paid too much, couldn't own a car-it was an asset. So, how does that exactly help? Any money she made that was above what the state allowed would be taken back to pay for what they gave! And the neighbors would lie in wait to turn her in when they saw her driving My Gramp's car because God forbid, she was getting over. Amazing mentality, that. My Mutti was smarter than they were and ditched the system. We struggled, but were beholden to noone. It can be done on 9k a year with 3 kids, rent of 375/month...back in 77-83...I look back and I don't know how, but she did it.

Great posts..
Fletch, Peggy Audir10 - great posts!

As my grandfather (who escaped early Nazi Germany & entered the US legally) told my mother: "When people begin voting themselves entitlements, they creat a dependent society, submitting their freedom to a group of elitists, thus forming a slave state".

Superior Liberals
Liberals are SOOOO much better at:

Kumbayah singalongs

Handwringing

Holding memorials

Feeling good about themselves by giving away other people's money

Their "caring."

In the words of Winston Churchill, "...anyone who is not a Socialist at age 20 doesn't have a heart. Anyone who is a Socialist at age 40 doesn't have a brain."

Put simply, Liberals are emotionally arrested juveniles no matter what their age.

Another excellent column by Dr. Sowell; supporting the obvious with real data.

Yep. They love humanity and hate people.

Belief
A Liberal believes in himself in that he can help you, a conservative believes in you in that you can help yourself.

Fletch
I've got to agree with Primus54. I've enjoyed reading your posts for a while now. It would be nice to see them all in one place. You clearly enjoy writing!

I'm going to foward this one to my liberal brother.

AudiR10
You are absolutely correct, and have boiled it down to the main point. Liberals don't believe in the individual. Teddy Kennedy is waging a war on the individual.

This is why liberals love labels. "Big Tobacco", "the poor", "Big Oil", "the underprivileged.” If they can just get us all into groups, they can tell us how to think and behave.

AudiR10
As it seems you do not like Canada very much, why do you live there?

And what is your opinion of foreigners who immigrate to America and then criticize it?

Deornwulf,
or put another way, with a liberal its about the liberal (i.e. look at ME, look at the good things I am doing, although not with my time or money). Conservatives can sometimes get over themselves long enough to actually try and do something that will actually be in someone else's interest.

You gotta love libs
They are so busy patting themselves on the back for their compassion that they do not have time to reach in their pocket to help.
Those who build homes are greedy developers, while the caring, compassionate watch their property values go up by preventing those deveopments. Those who provide food for a country and the world are greedy ranchers and farmers, while those who dump wolves to eat their livestock, and mice to stop their irrigation of fields are concerned about the rights of "endangered species" as they watch their own property values go up and up.

Sowell scores again!
It'll be interesting to see how the whiny libs try to squirm out of this one. The facts are there, read'em and weep. Then, for God's sake, just shut up!

Dr. Sowell
the blog idea is tantalizing. Have you ever considered it? I always look for your remarks in here and am disappointed when you don't write. So.....a blog could get us over the empty spots.

What a bunch of baloney.
Sowell made a fair enough point but is wrong when he asserts that “While both sides argue that their opponents are mistaken, those on the left have declared their opponents to be not merely in error but morally flawed as well”. Those on the right think the same way. Consider how this thread quickly degenerated into a very low form of liberal bashing. Neither side has a monopoly on generosity, charity or selfishness. As long as both sides fail to acknowledge the good qualities of the opposition and the short comings of themselves, no one can claim even the most remote aspect of moral superiority.

For the record
I am a college student AND a conservative...I don't call myself Republican because I don't agree with the actions of most Republican politicians, but then, I don't really agree with politicians at all, so perhaps that is a moot point. My purpose for writing this is to let the other readers here know that there are some college kids who understand that the liberal agenda is nothing but a ploy for more power. We are few and far between, but we do exist, and fortunately for me, there is a much higher percentage of people like me at Auburn University, where I go to school.

Past that, Sowell has been one of my favorite columnists for a long time now, and this particular column is a shining example of why. He calmly explains the shortcomings of liberals with only fact, not emotion. Cheers Dr. Sowell!

Liberals don't need charity
They would rather use the force of government(guns) to take your money and give it.

So noble...

Fletch
Great post. Let me add one about who really cares. I think the "English as a Second Language" and/or "Bilingual" programs in schools can safely be labeled a liberal idea. Individuals like me are labeled racists by the likes of Geraldo Rivera when we oppose these programs. Their reasoning is that we must hate hispanics if we don't agree to "help" these children.

The reason I oppose these programs is because, like it or not, this is an English speaking country. The longer it takes for these kids to learn the language, the further they fall behind. I saw this in our school system. I said to my wife that our kids will have a life long head start on these kids. Not to mention that studies have proved us right-that immersion is more successful than bilingual education.

So Fletch, in keeping with your theme, which is more compassionate. Having a child learn this country's language as soon as possible giving them a greater chance for success as an adult, or keeping them in a program that is less hard on them only to handicap them for life? Once again the conservative position is not only more practical but more compassionate.

In 2004...
...I remember reading about John and Teresa's tax return for income made in 2003.Their income was 5 million dollars.Of this,they paid 12% in income taxes,while the vast majority of Americans were lucky if they could get 15%.Makes you feel all warm and cuddly,doesn't it.

donalddd
Keep complaining about the economy, the numbers are not on your side though.

I love how you can rebut Prof Brooks 10 years of research with 'that statistic is BS'.

Liberals DO have a different worldview, and that is the state is some kind of higher-power, higher than the individual or God.

I am beginning to see Ann Coulter's point.

In our sue-happy culture, tort reform is necessary.
GO read Elders article, or wait for the 'settlements' which will come for Mike Richards' hecklers...

Would you rather small business close down and everyone loses their jobs? Is there something wrong with AD&D insurance?

Spot on, Dr. Sowell ...
... but my particular ax to grind is the liberal leaders of (most of) our churches who are preaching that paying taxes for liberal social programs equals charity.

The government has no compassion and no love, as the numerous failed programs of the "New Frontier" and the "Great Society" have amply demonstrated. And, paying taxes (under threat of criminal prosecution) is not charity.


SoonerJJ
Donald: Like Sowell says, put it to the test if you know how. You have no evidence--only examples that only occur in an extremely small percentage of the population. Jobs lost overseas? For example, I'll bet you didn't know we IN-SOURCE more jobs than we outsource and they are great jobs. The evidence is pretty easy to find.


Defining Liberalism

.....Dr. Sowell...

.....A Liberal is someone who is generous with my money.....COLOSSUS

Donaldd:
As far as Kerry's "giving" to charity, I don't count the money he has given to palestinian groups that in turn give it to terrorists.

For the liberal...
...charity does not begin at home. It begins in the county seat, then the state capital, and finally in Washington. It is easy to characterize yourself as compassionate, when it is someone else's money that is supporting your 'compassion'.

The difference between conservatives and liberals is that liberals see people as totally dependent on others, mainly the G, in order to survive. Conservatives know that given the right impetus and help, a person can learn not to just survive, but to thrive!

Sowell Is Too Kindly Toward Liberals.
Liberals are a large group, and therefor internally diverse. Sowell seems largely to take the position that most liberals are mis-informed about their own goodness and careless of the consequences of their bad policies.

Some are. And many of those can be reasoned to advocating less destructive social actions. (Winston Churchill's quip about socialist at 20 and conservative by 40 comes to mind.)

But if one spends some time observing behaviors in our bluer states (e.g., Massachusetts), one concludes that many liberals are probably consciously pursuing a much more openly anti-social agenda. There we see many more laws and much more regulation simultaneously accompanied by much more anarchy and open disdain for _any_ laws.

Much as we see with Congressional scandals, many liberals smirkingly advocate a double ethical standard. They don't mind having lots of laws because they plan to ignore them anyway. Laws, instead, are there to cripple and exploit those foolish enough to obey them. Indeed, to many liberals, "ethics" are there to cripple and exploit those gullible enough to be responsible.

At the national level we see a Devil's bargain between many "liberal" leaders who lust for power, and many "liberal" voters who lust for wealth. Much like the Perons of Argentina, the bargain offered by the Pelosi's effectively says "Make me your dictator, and we will use our brownshirts to confiscate your neighbor's property and give it to you." (And bitter justice, the fools who voted for that will learn once again that there is not much honor among thieves.)

Sowell is too kindly toward liberals.

baseballdoc
.....Bush must be the most liberal president we’ve had in year.........
...................SHAZAMUS

When they're in the s**t
Conservatives say "How do I get out of the s**t".
Liberals say "who s**t on me"?

who would Jesus bomb?
and other snied bumper stickers like "hate is not a family value" take everything out of context.

Maybe Jesus doesn't approve of our military intervention in Iraq. No one knows the mind of God - even Pres. Bush or Pelosi for that matter. But if God desires for us to show justice and mercy maybe He also doesn't want us to turn a blind eye to oppression -- which is what most liberals support...let big bad America keep its stinkin' nose out of everyone else's business.

I'm sorry to see the expression "compassionate conservative" going out of style in the Republican party...I'm sure it's much more compassionate to be enablers in a welfare state! Help those less fortunate...invest in the charities that you know are responsible and ultimately effective, rather than supporting big gov't that can mess up any good intention. It's too bad we can't go on the internet to examine a pie chart for every government program developed to help out the disadvantaged. How much of the pie do you think would go the admin. costs compared to program costs?

Take charitable donations off of Schedule A and put them on as credits; then you might just see more donations from the liberals.

Baloney Baloney
One thing that has been left out so far is that liberals seem to be unable to think things through to the logical, real-world, conclusion. They live in the "ideal" world. That's why they think their policies can and will work, in the face of the preponderance of evidence.

Liberals think conservatives are mean-spirited and say the most vile and nasty things about conservatives to prove their point. Liberals believe they are morally superior to the evil conservatives because they support broad, government solutions to broad problems, and think that anyone who is against their policies are mean and evil. After all, how can anyone be FOR war or AGAINST helping poor people.

It's easy to be against war or for helping poor people; it's harder to do something about it. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan than to do some actual research. Feelings can be reduced to a slogan. Real-world solutions take longer to explain.

Conservatives believe the better way is to look at reality. They ask, "What is the end result of the policies I am advocating?"

Liberals advocate "compassionate" polices toward others that they would not teach their own children. Would they allow their own children to soak off them for life? Conservatives understand that the better way is to teach a person to fish than to hand them a dollar. It's how most people would teach their own children to be self-reliant.

The difference between the feelings of moral superiority is that liberals feel they are enlightened - they know what is better for GROUPS of people and are willing to make those rules, and the excuses, for the individuals in that group, with other peoples' money. If you disagree with their flawed premise, you're a bigot-homophobe-misogynist-hater, even if their methodology has proven to have the opposite effect of what they want to achieve. It's the THOUGHT that counts. We MEAN well.

Conservatives don't feel MORALLY superior. They believe that their METHODS are superior because they look at the RESULTS of the actions and policies they advocate. It's the RESULTS that count.

Donaldd
Are you a straw man?

I was just thinking about this idea....
Think about it...the basis of liberalism and their mantra, started in the '60's is 'if it feels good, do it.'

And that's what so many of their ideas do...FEEL good. They don't really DO any good, whether it's foreign aid or affirmative action for example. Only if it FEELS good...
no intelligent thought
no logic
just feeling good.

And we all suffer for it.

Concrete comparison
Dick "the devil incarnate" Cheney and his wife Lynne - donated EVERY PENNY OF THEIR INCOME LAST YEAR TO CHARITY.

Bill Clinton - donated used underpants and tried to claim they were worth $200 a pair.

Donaldd's Remedial Math
Donaldd, you wrote this little gem:
"The last time I donated blood no-one asked me if I was Conservative or liberal. That statistic Is BS."


A statistical study is based on a population *sample*. There is no need to poll every single person who donates blood.

Donaldd, Ignorance is bliss
Donald has obviously never run a business. It is illegal in Michigan to hire anyone unless you have Worker Comp. You even have to claim subcontracted labor unless they send you a certificate of insurance. I'll bet most states are the same.

My credit union offers AD&D insurance. I'll bet most do. Anyone who wants it can get it. It's called self-reliance.

Ignorance is bliss. It's easier to repeat a mindless slogan that to do some actual research.


Missing something
Aren't the article and commentaries missing an important part of the book? One of the main findings of the author was that religious people tend to give more than secular people. Since conservatives tend to be more religious than progressives (in the modern age, anyway), this translates to conservatives being more charitable. In an October 2003 article by Arthur C. Brooks in the Policy Review, he states that religious liberals give and volunteer at rates comparable to religious conservatives. It's not so much about politics, it's about loving your fellow man, and religion (when used properly) is great at encouraging that.

Thanks Fletch!
"Socialist “solutions” have never worked. Conservatives look at that historical fact and suggest that we should toss the drowning man a life preserver instead of an anvil. Liberals look at that historical fact and claim that conservatives simply didn’t give them enough anvils!"

That's gonna be hanging on my wall as soon as I finish typing this. 40 pitch.

Donaldddd
1)Employers are required by law to carry workers comp insurance in most if not all states.
2)Insurance companies are NOT the tooth fairy. The money they pay for settlements comes from premiums, paid by businesses. Businesses get the money to pay premiums by raising prices or foregoing other expenses like raises for employees. The bottom line is that consumers pay the cost of litigation.
3)The actual number of workers harmed by chemical exposure is often overestimated due to the disproportionate publicity these cases recieve in the MSM and by trial lawyers trolling for paychecks.
4)How many insurance company financial statements did you base your statement on? Please name one. They're public held companies who are required to publish financial results.
5)Recommended reading for you :"Elements of Style" (it's not about fashion) and a dictionary.

Liberals are generous too!!
With OTHER people's money, that is.

Thanks Frey
You made a point I first thought of when I read the article, and lost when I started reading comments.

I prepare tax returns for people. The biggest charitable contribution is usually a church, usually well over $500 per year.

I wonder what the charitable giving would be without church. I'm willing to bet that it is still higher for conservatives than liberals.

pbanks7
You said, "Liberals advocate "compassionate" polices toward others that they would not teach their own children. Would they allow their own children to soak off them for life?"

Well, they are allowing this. I worked at a university for 8 years and I saw it every day. But the adults are ensuring the retroactive soaking of their children by compassionately fighting social security reform tooth and nail.

Donaldd's illnesses
"Many on the job related injuries and illnesses do not appear until some 30 years later. As in Mesothelioma or Asbestosis and lukemia from benzene exposure."

This exposes one of the left's many problems. They think that someone,(which ends up being all of us in the grand scheme of economics) should pay for illnesses that are supposedly caused by what we did in the past. Just like reperations. With the diseases that are mentioned above, the products and workplace environments and materials were the top of the line and the best of their time. Since then we have learned the things that can cause problems and technology and manufacturing has changed to counter the problems. I'm sure that in the future we may find something that we are using now that will have caused serious health problems in the people of the industry. Which is why products are not rushed into the marketplace as much anymore. "lawyers" like that sokolove jerkoff should be barred and then tarred and featherd for destroying our society with his stupid law suits. Free Market will work every time.

Liberals think very short term
and they are arrogant. the problem is they don't realize it. Simple.

Libs view paying taxes as charity
A couple of years ago I was watching tv with my wife. Oprah was interviewing the cast of "Oceans 12", and we were treated with the ingenious observations of renowned political thinker, Matt Damon.

He noted that, as a wealthy person, he should be in favor of the Bush tax cuts, but he opposed them because of all the good that could be done with the money he got to keep.

A couple of weeks ago, Rosie O'Donnell made a similar comment on "The View" - some mindless blather (I realize that following "Rosie said" with "mindless blather" is a redundancy) about giving a million dollars to the government for every million you're worth.

My question to them: What is preventing you from taking the money you are no longer forced to give to the government and donating it to charity?

Concerned about homelessness in America? Hold off on buying that second villa in Italy and donate to a homeless shelter.

Losing sleep over the plight of the hungry? Dump some of your entourage and donate their "salary" to your local food bank.

After hurricane Katrina, multi-millionaire celebs were crawling over each other to get in front of the camera and ask US to help. We responded generously. Many Americans donated more than they could safely afford to. I recall Sandra Bullock donating a million dollars and challenging others in the entertainment industry to do the same. How many took up her challenge? Few, if any.

These Hollywood libs seem to think that they are doing everyone a great favor by paying their taxes. What they fail to understand is that the government is expert at the inefficient use of money. Most of the money budgeted for government social programs is devoured by the bureaucracy and never makes it to those who need the help.

By contrast, my local food bank relies on volunteers for about 95% of their labor, is 100% reliant on charitable donations for their budget, and can usually get 7x more food for a dollar than the retail grocery shopper.

Hmm... Should I lobby for a tax increase to subsidise food stamps? Or donate to the food bank?

For thinking people of conscience, the choice is clear. The attitude common among the type of libs mentioned above flies in the face of reason. They can rest easy and smugly knowing that they gave at the office, and that they would willingly give more if the government would just take it.

Fletch
I don’t understand what part of my comment you claim is baloney. I made a single point and you said it was correct. There was no further implication in my comment. Yes, I think much of this thread is unabated liberal bashing on a petty level and that is just baloney. You seem to have gone to great length to point out the flaw in my comment. You were on the verge of equivocating and to what end? The only way to disagree with my statement is to claim that all liberals are bad and all conservatives are good.


corection
The Rosie comment should have read: give a million for every 20 million you're worth.

MSM has the same attitudes
I remember once, long ago, a TV commentator saying that Jerry Ford, then president, was hypocritical because he'd give the shirt off his back to help a poor kid, but would then turn around and veto some big social bill from congress. The TV guy couldn't understand that it is more charitable to help people with your OWN money or time, then just spending OTHER people's money.

Add me...
to the list of Fletch fans.

I particularly like his comment that the term "compassionate conservative" is redundant.

I very much dislike all the adjectives people think they can put in front of "conservative" to obtain some specific effect.

When the Dems thought they were going to nominate Howard Dean they invented the term "fiscal conservative" to disguise the reality that Dean is a tax-and-spend liberal. This came after the term "neo-con" was invented to describe a non-traditional conservative.

We true conservatives should have been worried that GWB was going to be too politically correct when he felt compelled to describe himself as a "compassionate conservative", as if to acknowledge and agree that the leftists' bigoted stereotype of conservatives has credibility.

We are conservatives. We are not embarassed or apologetic about it. We are confident about it. Our confidence is based in self-reliance, which breeds self-assurance. We don't need the approval of libs, moderates, or even other conservatives to know when we are doing what is right.

Fletch:
What about Ted Kennedy's tax returns?

Mike R
I know what you mean to say, but you're off target. Liberals actually do think they are better or superior beings because conservatives are evil or greedy. Conservatives don't think they are better or superior we just think we are right and you guys are naive and ignorant and dangerous. See the difference? We think that we can "fix" you by showing you facts, results, and history of how wrong most of your ideas are. You think that conservatives should naturally "feel" like you do because you are right. You rarely have facts on your side. Liberals are more into the "ought to" world where everyone acts like they "ought to". Things "ought to" be the way you want it. If conservatives disagree with you then you think we must have something innately(sp?) wrong with us.

Also, I notice that liberals call us haters and mean-spirited when we quote back what you guys actually say and show or talk about what you guys actually do. You say it is out of context or we're trying to sling mud. Hilarious. The only reason you get away with it is because the Old Media is on your side. When they die out, it's the trash heap of history for your kind.

One Sided Statistics
Firstly, to base an entire stance off of one view point seems, ehh... a bit redundant. I'm sure anyone with a fifth grade education can plagerize someone else's work. This argument, for that very reason, is the very reason why politics and government in general have yet to work in mankinds history.
Mudslinging and name-calling are great distractions, but is anything really being accomplished in this country? Oh, that's right, baby steps, baby steps.
Another misconception Sowell fails to make apparent to the reader is some of the illogical fallacies the actual author of "Who Really cares" makes.
After visiting the site one will see that the entire arguement is based on the democrat "idea" aka stereotype, that liberals enjoy taking taxes and redistributing them throughout society at equal levels. Sounds like a pretty crappy way to run things, eh liberals? Problem is, this "conventional wisdom" has always been challenged and will continue to be challenged by those who believe in freedom under one's own individual rule rather than under a privileged class of people. Liberals don't want to become equal in terms of dummies all doing the same things, they want equal oppurtunity for everyone, not just white middle class males. Problem is, even they don't have equal oppurtunity to pursue individuality - just look at any WMCM homosexual, you think he's accepted?
"The conventional wisdom runs like this: Liberals are charitable because they advocate government redistribution of money in the name of social justice; conservatives are uncharitable because they oppose these policies. But note the sleight of hand: Government spending, according to this logic, is a form of charity." - Who Really Cares

Firstly, most liberals or more precisely labeled "other people besides the norm of conservative values and ideals" are far too broad of a category to simply be labeled communists. Most right wings today would put anarchists, socialists, gays, pot-smokers, college professors, artists, commune-dwellers and even libertarians in this mis-identified group of liberals.

Secondly, writing off donations on taxes is only one way of donating your time, money and blood to a cause. Fighting for other's rights, organizing peacful protests, visiting speakers, reading to children, helping family members and neighbors, creating a piece of art for the benefit of humanity's collective conscious and working on re-education literature are not even mentioned as ways giving one's "blood" or "time." True, they aren't giving to a specific "tax-deductible charity organization", (Thanks bobby dylan)which makes them that much more conservative. If the idea of conservatism is that less government is better, then contributing to governmental procedures should also be something "all o' ya'll" should be against. (I use that term mainly because of my audience here)

But due to time and internet "space" the most important problem with this piece of "literature" is how one-sided both his and his source material's arguments and data are. He fails to give perspective on true compassion and work, and instead insists on one type of charity - tax deductions. Instead of arguing about who gives more, why aren't you arguing about something important? That's right, we've lost touch with humanity in this Fat Amerika, and have forgotten what living in a ghetto is like. But don't worry folks, the people living in ghettos - they made bad choices during life, and that's why they still live there...
Whatever makes you sleep better at night guys...

daveyjones
speaking of smoking pot... not sure what your mishmash means but

the guy spent 10 years on this book. 10. i'm sure he figured out how to be objective to suit even a picker of nits like yourself. i understand that he leans left and assumed that the research would back up the assumption. That's the point of his study. The people identified THEMSELVES, comrade. I know, I know, it is awful to label ourselves. (snicker) ESPECIALLY when the "L" word comes up. You're a knee slapper alright. America with a "K"! Oh you...

P.S. - Jesus said the poor will always be with us. And with Liberal ideas they are sure to stay that way.

Come out, come out!!
Where are Kimberly and Phylo? They don't like facts so they stay away, I guess. The Triple- L Syndrome must be killing them...

daveyjones
What are you smoking?

And you commit a more egregious illogical fallacy when you off-handedly assume that "conservatives" are only interested in "equal opportunity" for "just white middle class males."

Personally, as a libertarian-conservative, I'm much more interested in "freedom of opportunity" for "Americans."

By your "logic" I would assume that "artists" who craft figures of the Virgin Mary out of elephant dung or weld together indiscernible mountains of scrap metal are somehow benefiting the collective conscience of society, in as much the same way as the average American who donates a portion of his earned (not government-subsidized) paycheck, sometimes in lieu of but also frequently in addition to his time, to a children's hospice? Perhaps a thesis on "Fat Studies" should be considered on par with donations to the Salvation Army, since a 300 page discourse on being a fat-@ss benefits our collective conscience just as much as providing warm coats in the winter for families that might need a little bit of temporary help.

Taking a tax-deduction is hardly lending justifiability to the government sanctioned rape of the taxpayers. I see it more as a reduction in government revenue, owing to the ineptness and waste of the government compared to a private organization with similar intentions.

Fletch
“We've know for a long time that Liberals 'Talk' but Conservatives 'Do.'”
“Facts mean nothing to a Liberal.”
“We do understand the danger that liberal blood represents to the national emergency blood supply: it's all HIV infected.”
“And of course liberals have more money. Gays don't have children, you see (children are very expensive).”
“The young college brainwashed Liberal idiots live in La La Land”
“Put simply, Liberals are emotionally arrested juveniles no matter what their age.”
“They are so busy patting themselves on the back for their compassion that they do not have time to reach in their pocket to help.”


These statements were the ones I was addressing. They are not COMPLETELY ACCURATE by any stretch of the imagination. They are insults and exaggerations. In short, unabated liberal bashing.

My comment about Sowell’s statement is not absurd. There are many on the right who contend that the left in not only in error but are morally wrong. That can be seen in this thread alone as well as TH in general. To deny such is to demonstrate the inability to perceive reality. I have no difficulty in comprehending. You have not refuted my statement. You have danced around it with hedging and veiled insults. I stand by my charge that neither side can claim the moral high ground.


daveyjones
Glad you've taken time away from your Monkees reunion tour to grace us with your presence.

Apparently, in reading the article, you missed this sentence; "Professor Brooks admits that the facts he uncovered were the opposite of what he expected to find -- so much so that he went back and checked these facts again, to make sure there was no mistake."

Sounds like a liberal getting educated - ie. accepting the facts as they are and not necessarily how they want them to be.

As for your closing guano drop, er, comment regarding ghetto residents; a few questions: How many of those ghettos have been governed by democrats for the last 30-40 years? How many of them have been represented by dems in congress for the same period of time? If liberal social policies actually help, why are there still ghettos? If said policies worked, shouldn't the entire city of Detroit be a vast expanse of exclusive, gated communities by now? They had, after all, implemented every liberal policy imaginable by the mid 1970s. Now, 30 years later, the entire city is a slum. But the two couldn't possibly be connected.

It seems to me that the only mistake ghetto residents have made is continually buying the lies told to them by their elected officials and continuing to give said officials control of the purse strings.

I preface my next comment by saying that I in no way endorse a move back toward segregation.

In many ways, blacks in America were better off in the 1940s and 50s than they are today. They owned far more businesses in their communities. The rate of poverty among blacks was only slightly higher than that of whites. And their divorce and out-of-wedlock birth rates were the same as whites.

Then, on the heels of the civil rights movement, the "Great Society" was born. and with it came the construction of government project housing. Blacks were recruited to live there and be put on the dole as if they were being done a favor. The facts now show this to be one of the greatest acts of oppression in the history of the USA.

Prior to the "heartless" welfare reform act of 1997, many welfare recipients never knew there was a better life to be had. Not everyone being weaned from the welfare rolls will succeed. Many people who never accept welfare will also fail, though not for lack of trying.

The fact is, if you want to learn to ride a bike, someday you have to take the training wheels off. Libs, like yourself, want to have the training wheels welded to the frame.

MikeR
I stand by my charge that neither side can claim the moral high ground.

What kind of position is that? Sounds like moral relativism to me, and moral relativism is primarily responsible for the current sorry state of society.

Regardless, libertarians recognize that their ideology does not necessarily have a moral high ground, but an intellectual and rational high ground. Morality isn't the business of government whatsoever.

But the gist of the article is not that conservatives can claim the moral high ground, but that liberals go out of the way to make everyone believe they have the moral high ground, but the reality of their existence and the results of their programs reveals that they are no more moral, and sometimes less moral, than the supposedly evil conservatives. You need to read Sowell's Advanced Economics, where he explains how liberals don't think beyond "Stage One" - how they conceive a plan to benefit society that backfires and produces the opposite results, such as the case with price controls. The irresponsible failure to weigh consequences produces the immoral result despite the moral intentions.

liberalism
It's also the case that liberal policies discriminate terribly against the middle class. Liberal "compassion" to one group often comes by way of discrimination against another.

The liberal idea of giving is that it should come out of someone else's pocket or be taken away from someone else's opportunities. That's why rich liberals (like Bush, Gore, Kerry, etc.) are so fond of racial and gender prefereces. Their own kids have more opportunities than they deserve, due to wealth and connections. It's for someone else to make the sacrifices to promote their social goals. And they could care less about the situation of the average middle class American.

Nee
Speaking of the loyal opposition, has anyone seen liberal-dialogue lately? Maybe they all got sick of the partisan attacks; I know it's been harder for me to take lately.

Not that I'm complaining, after all, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

more information is needed
Sowell is of course correct that there are many policies whose worth depends on their effetiveness. But he oddly abandons this principle when "proving" that conservatives are more compassionate than liberals. What counts as charitable giving and action in these cases?

Someone above scoffs that liberals are too busy protesting to do anything else (including presumably acting charity) but are the protests effective ways in bringing about change that helps those in need? If so then this would indicate that liberals are heavily committed to acting charitiably.

In the US we tend to count giving to religion as charitable giving, but in a town in which the church is part of the social life of the town, then one gets credit for charitable giving when one is contributing to ones own social life, an odd sort of charity. SO if the issue is who does more to help the poor, then one certainly needs a more effective empirical analysis than this one. And it should obviously be one that includes both private and public activities (at least if one is counting time given as part of ones charitable activities).

So Sowell is certainly right that ones presuppostions should be put to empirical test. At the same time one should not cherry pick the emprical tests that say what one wants, and dismiss the ones that say what you don't. That should be a good non-partisan principle that conservatives and liberals could agree to.

the myth of liberal compassion
Liberals think they're more compassionate, and the liberal press presents it as fact, but I think the majority of Americans know that liberals are not as charitable as the rest of us.

Liberals' desire to outsource charity to the government is just another aspect of their goal to reduce personal responsibility, grow and empower government, and reduce freedom and power for Americans.

George Bush is a perfect example of this liberal point of view.

http://freedomistheanswer.blogspot.com/

charity
God helps those who help themselves...I give freely of myself for my own direct benefit. My social betterment is for the good not only of myself but for the countless consumers and producers dependent upon me. Society's collective conscience is eased, since society is no longer burdened with sustaining and providing for me. I demand tax-exempt status!

Fletch
It’s you who is kidding yourself. You wrote “The second (and more important) difference is one that you’ll have difficulty comprehending but it is nonetheless the case: each of those criticisms of the Left are COMPLETELY ACCURATE.” I picked out some that came before my original post that were irrefutably wrong. Yes, there were only seven, but that is a great deal more than none. Now you quibble about the significance. You made the statement “Can't liberals do basic research either? In a word: no (else they wouldn't be liberals).” Now you say “I am not arguing that all liberals are completely blind to the facts”. But that’s what you did. That is kidding yourself. Finally you write that “Sowell’s comment survives scrutiny” because he (as well as others) “was discussing groups in GENERALITIES” and “the fact remains that these TENDENCIES are demonstrably linked to the groups in question”. I have done nothing other than argue against such generalities because they are misrepresentations. That has been my point from the start. These ‘generalities’ and ‘tendencies’ are the favored tool of racists. They are used constantly by elements of the liberal movement to malign conservatives. This was pointed out by some of the commenters on this thread. My point has been simple. In your effort to defend Sowell or refute me, you have done nothing but twist and stretch your arguments to fit. That is kidding ones self.

Lon
Regarding your question/statement "...are the protests effective ways in bringing about change that helps those in need? If so then this would indicate that liberals are heavily committed to acting charitiably."

You are acting on the assumption that change in government social policy has the ability to change lives for the better when recent history would show that the inverse is actually true. In fact, it appears that ship last sailed during the civil rights movement.

Can you, please, identify ONE cause taken up by liberal protestors in the past 30 years that has made life better for the people they claim to be helping. Wouldn't their time and money be better spent helping said cause directly?

Many libs thought last year's Live8 benefit concert was a phenomenal success. Despite the fact that exactly NONE of the money was going to be spent to help the suffering people in Africa directly. It could have been used for irrigation or potable water systems, electricity, roads, mosquito abatement, AIDS education, anything. Instead it is all going to PACs that will use the money to lobby the G8 governments, (read: the US) for aid. As usual, they just don't get it.

Fletch Nails It (AGAIN.)
He wrote: "...Dr. Sowell was discussing groups in GENERALITIES and, while discussions of the individual members of such groups in absolutes is impossible, the fact remains that these TENDENCIES are demonstrably linked to the groups in question and, therefore, Sowell’s comment survives scrutiny and yours does not."

It is legitimate - and frequently helpful - to discuss groups in generalities, as long as one is careful to keep in mind that individual members of any given group may exhibit characteristics considerably removed from the norm of said group.

It is also important to have your factual "ducks in a row." For example, the statement "American Blacks have a genetic proclivity toward tribalism," may SOUND about right. But is it actually true? Has anyone done studies? Are they peer reviewed?

There HAVE been studies on the effects of "Minimum Wage" laws, State Welfare programs, etc. In spite of increasingly mounting evidence showing not only the fecklessness of these programs but also the actual DAMAGE they do, Liberals continue to promulgate them.

fletch!
Well, Fletch, what more can I add to the discussion which you haven't already addressed quite sufficiently. I enjoy all of your FACT-based arguments and rebuttals . . . but the best was your comment on Teddy Kennedy's "consultancy research" tax deduction. HA HA HA! I laughed myself silly.

Something to consider
Private charities are much more efficient than gov't handouts. Of every dollar spent on gov't entitlement programs, less than 20 cents is paid to recipients. Of every dollar donated to private charity, 80 to 95 cents reach recipients. Yes, there are exceptions and scams, but on the whole the averages stand.

Liberalism can be defined as the uncontrollable urge to take someone else's money and use it to do the wrong things for the right reasons.

You completely missed the point...
Donaldd:

Regarding your "Sowell Sucks" posting...

By citing supposedly "uncompassionate" legislation and policies passed during the Republican reign as "proof" that conservatives are the real Scrooges, you have not only missed the whole point of Sowell's column, you have actually *reinforced* it.

Sowell is talking primarily about how INDIVIDUALS behave...not their governments. He suggests something positively frightening to the average liberal: Instead of focusing on the government and its policies as the litmus test for "compassion"...let's see how people actually when it isn't just ideology anymore...it's THEIR OWN money, time, and resources.

And what is the typical liberal defense whenever they've been exposed as less than consistent? Why, change the subject of course. Which is precisely what you've done. The topic is individual behavior when it comes to charitable giving...not government policies. Please re-read the last sentence until you understand it. Then lather, rinse, and repeat.

Conservatives have always felt that it is the role of individuals - not the government - to be the primary dispensers of charity. Sowell simply points out that, on the whole, conservatives seem to walk the talk in this regard.

Liberals, of course, are positively gleeful about being "charitable" with resources that are not their own via taxes and legislation. But I don't call that charity, because charity is not charity at all without the element of free will in the act of giving. When there is a gun to my head, it is called robbery...or perhaps taxation...but it is not called charity. And make no mistake - the charity liberals espouse is almost always the charity of legislative compulsion rather than individual generosity.

So comparing liberal legislation to conservative legislation - while perhaps an intersting aside - has very little to do with Sowell's point which is simple: Liberals talk a good game about compassion, but lets look at how they fare as INDIVIDUALS to see if the walk substantiates the talk.

And guess what we find. To draw from the book Old Testament book of Daniel, the liberal demographic has been "...weighed in the balances and found wanting."

Clearly there are variations. We can all cite generous liberals and miserly conservatives. But that isn't the point. The point is that on the whole, the data indicates the conservative demographic is more generous and "compassionate" than the liberal demographic as measured by their INDIVIDUAL actions.

So, unless you care to conduct your own poll or income tax audits of several thousand conservatives and liberals, please don't bother to spout a bunch of legislation as proof of anything that could refute or support the findings that Sowell cites.

P.S. Yes I've given blood, and no I've never been asked concurrently about my political affiliation. But it doesn't take too much effort to surmise that such questions can be asked at some later date...such as during a polster's telephone interview.

Fletch - Liberal slayer!
I have been telling Fletch that he needs a blog for quite some time. Glad to see everybody else joining the bandwagon! I understand that the work situation makes it difficult to contribute on a regular basis. I hope things work out so that you can find the time.

Reply to Mike R
Your biggest complaint today seems to be that the posters here are being "excessively" critical about liberals. Have you read HuffPost lately? Or DailyKos? While I(and many other conservatives) find liberals to be wrong and are critical about their ideas, liberals find conservatives to be evil. And not just the rank and file libs, but even the head of the DNC. Would you like a link or do you recall the evil rant by Howard Dean?

So, to summarize:

Conservatives believe libs are - wrong and ignorant.

Liberals believe conservatives are - evil and wrong.

An ignorant person can be provided with knowledge and hopefully, if they are not to brainwashed by liberal propoganda, might change their mind to believe the truth. An evil person is damned and beyond hope.

TRUE THEN, TRUE NOW
Another amazingly brilliant article by Dr. Sowell! This quote reminded me of another brilliant article I read published in 1884 about this exact same situation...

"Those on the left proclaimed their moral superiority in the 18th century and they continue to proclaim it in the 21st century. What is remarkable is how long it took for anyone to put that belief to the test -- and how completely it failed that test."

Anyone interested in American History should check out this story: "Davy Crockett vs. Welfare"
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/ellis1.html

Fletch,
I've enjoyed reading your comments (and those of DocNoleCat) from before the TH makeover in July. I also think you should start a blog. Most of us do a weekly post. There are even some of us (Celtic Dragon) who have gone a couple of months between posts. And, yet, if you look at her blog, you'll see that even after taking a couple of months off, she still got comments on her post. Think about it. If you have any questions, just drop by my blog (by clicking on my name) and I'll be glad to answer them.

Steve
I became soured on big charities when Carter was running for President.
I had more financial responsibility than finances back then so I split $100 between charity & politics.
I sent $50 to the United Crusade and $50 to the RNC.
And then the United Crusade made a humongous contribution to the Carter Campaign!

Since then my charity is limited to Disabled American Veterans & Boy Scouts of America.

Another example for MikeR
Another example for you would be Speaker Pelosi. She doesn't just believe the Republicans/Conservatives are wrong, she believes they are corrupt. I am sure you have heard her many times go on and on about the Republican Party of Corruption in Congress.

Nobody here is calling libs criminal because they are less charitiable.

I wonder??? Does Pelosi realize how unbelievably hypocritical she is about the Republicans when she recently recommended 2 truly corrupt liberal congressman to leadership posts - Murtha and Hastings. Murtha being a unindited co-conspirator in a federal bribery case while serving Congress and Hastings being 1 of only 7 federal judges to be impeached! I bet she doesn't get it, which is funny but also kinda sad.

Wrong Professor, But who cares?
Liberals are much more generous with other peoples money than conservitaves. But who cares?

Libs do think they are superior
Enviros want to use the land/property that someone else has bought and paid for, they immediately attack the owner who wants to use it for the purpose it was purchased, as greedy, uncaring, selfish, a hater, etc. They of course are so wonderful they are willing to let the ownere continue to pay the taxes, and maintain the property, all the libs want is for people to recognize how caring and wonderful they are. Those whose property increases dramtically in value because they have kept a "greedy developer" from building more homes are doing it for the "wildlife". Somehow their property never affects anything negatively and is off bounds.

A good idea to a liberal
is anything that hasn't been tried before, sounds really good in theory, and involves distribution of the burden as far away from them as possible.

Morality
FLETCH:
I enjoyed all of your comments and ripostes. I always read Sowell, but this is the first time I have read the comments, and the first time I have read your posts. It will not be the last.
You are correct about GENERALITIES and TENDENCIES, and I say that in spite of the fact that I am a retired college professor, and a libertarian-conservative.
Even apart from their obvious ineffectiveness and waste, how MORAL are policies that use armed robbery (taxes) to take money from one who needs it and earned it and give it to one who only needs it? It is more legal than using a gun would be, but let's not call it moral. Ayn Rand used to complain about the Robin Hood syndrome as being a curse on our society, and she had a good point.
By the way, several of your antagonists could profit by someone's suggestion to consult The Elements of Style and a dictionary. You, on the other hand, do not need them -- you can pass your old copies on to someone who does.

Wingo & Sedonaman
Wingo, you really had me with your Clinton Charitable underwear comments until you mentioned you watched Rosie and "The View." I must question your sanity.

Sedonaman. The Kennedy clan has paid about $150,000 in estate taxes over the years. This was in one of Bernard Goldberg's books or the "Do as I say, Not as I do" books. Kennedy is constantly railing about "paying your fair share" but his family has driven a truck through every loophole to avoid their "fair share." Loopholes they were not forced to take advantage of.

Cookie
I caught the clip of "the View" on Hotair.com.

Hey libs...and donaldd
you ALL love to state your political positions when polled!
When giving blood, you have that
"I bleed and vote green" button clearly displayed!
That's why the evidence is so clear.

Full disclosure
I may have actually caught the Rosie comment on television while playing one of my favorite games. It's called "How long until Rosie utters the stupidest phrase imaginable." The game is great fun and rarely lasts for more than a minute or two.

This is illustrated in my own family
I have a brother in law who is a flaming liberal. He has a personalized license plate that says "lftwing".

He makes more than twice as much as we do. His biggest "charitable" donation was giving to the campaign to elect Howard Dean. I am not kidding.

We believe in giving freely of our own resources to help others through charity and service.

He believes in TAKING freely of others money to fund government programs.

Of course he does his best to make every claim he can to get every dime of taxes he may have over paid back from the IRS. Odd how most liberals don't send in extra money to the government they feel is so underfunded. Were I to believe in government as much as I do in the various charities I support I'd send the IRS an extra check rather than try and get the government to take more of my neighbors check.



Morality, indeed!
Leroy, you and I are on the same page.
The simple fact is that voluntary participation is morally superior to coerced participation (or non-participation) in any activity. And, as a result, the final outcome is always superior by any measure. This is true for charitable giving, enlistment in the military, volunteerism in non-military venues, religious affiliation (or repudiation of it), drug/alcohol use/gambling, virtually everything. If one thinks about it, government compulsion on one side or the other of all of these things is very similar to slavery, in that there is one small, elite group deciding what is best for all the rest of us and making the rules.

And of course this is the ultimate moral justification for the free market: nothing happens at all without the willing participation of a buyer and a seller.

Mike R, your argument fails because you are comparing apples to oranges, so to speak. Statistical analyses never apply to individuals -- of course there are generous people who are "liberals" in the vernacular. I'm sure there are individuals who consider themselves conservative and never give a penny. There are always people on both ends of the statistical curves. The interesting part of this study is the difference in the skew; that is, how the distribution of liberals' giving compares to the overall bell shaped curve, and the distribution of conservatives' giving against the same curve. The bottom line to this is one can't argue against statistics by saying "But not ALL xxx do yyy."

Fletch, they are all correct: your written word is eloquent and delightful. Keep it up.

A Hard Sell
Sowell is right as usual, but selling Conservative ideas is a challenge. Liberals can get away with empty touchy-feely slogans because the media is on their side and will never investigate consequences or demand actual results. John Stossel is one of the few exceptions and deserves major props.

Conservatives came up with "compassionate conservatism", but that phrase was quickly mocked. Talking about "empowerment" might be helpful for awhile, but conservatives generally need to come up with a good strategy that can cut through the clutter.

It's like when I first saw Bill Clinton at the Democratic Convention for the '91 Campaign. He brought tears to my eyes, and I wanted him to be President. Then I turned 15 and realized he was full of crap. But I'm one of the lucky ones who got away from that mindset. Others are not so lucky. Conservatives must help them help themselves! If not us...who? If not now...when? Sorry...I got nothin'.

Confirmation of "A Conflict of Visions"
Dr. Sowell: Thank you for bringing Arthur Brooks book "Who Really Cares" to our attention. Your description of Who Really Cares caused me to have a flash back to your book "A Conflict of Visions".

At present I am producing two, one hour, programs for Biddeford, Maine Public Access Television each week. The first show develops the consequence of the "New World Order". The second "My Government". I have started both shows with the information that all individuals are essentially "CONSTRAINED" or "UNCONSTRAINED". My next effort is to explain your books development of the meaning of the terms in 4 to 5 minutes or less. My reason for doing this is to demolish the ability to hide behind the Democrat, Republican and other valueless identifications.

Please keep sharing your insights with us.

Wingo
Reminds me of the old "Capitol Gang" show on CNN-my turn to admit watching a bad show/network. Like "The View," The CG was always 3-1 or 4-1 liberal vs. conservative. Every once in a great while 3-2. This, of course, is CNN's idea of balance. Keep watching so the rest of us don't have to.

seansfm
You are right, it is a hard sell. The best analogy I have heard is comparing Conservative vs. democrat to a strict parent vs. a permissive parent. Who are the kids going to love more, the permissive parent in the home or neighborhood who let's you drink underage in their house or smoke pot? Or will they like the parent who is no nonsense, who expects a lot of you. The kids I grew up with who had more permissive parents are a more dysfunctional group as a whole. I might not have liked my parents rules growing up but now that I am raising 2 sons, I'm glad they were more on the strict side. So if you are feeling rather than thinking through the issues, it is easy to side with a democrat. The conservatives are more like the strict parent, thinking, realistic, aware of consequences. Once I started thinking, my conservative side was finally allowed to emerge.

Cookie
I am not sure I like your parent-kid analogy. I don't any analogy that compares the relationship between government and the people with parents and their kids. We are not the government's kids; we can take care of ourselves.

As far as the strict vs. passive parenting, I believe research indicates that a balance is important. Being too passive is bad but so is being too strict. It is important to be in the middle.

A pretty good list Fletch
This list of what liberals believe and is accurate is just about on:

-government charity is an effective means of solving/mitigating societal problems
- the minimum wage helps the poor
- foreign aid has been successful at solving or mitigating international problems
- Welfare is an effective means of protecting the weakest in society
- capitalism has harmed the workers of the world
- Western Europe has demonstrated the effectiveness of a social safety net
- the average American worker has seen no benefit from the growth in the economy
- free trade harms American workers
- protectionism (tariffs, subsidies, etc.) helps American workers
- anti-trust laws have worked to protect the American consumer

However, to be fair there are some pretty dumb things conservatives stick to:

- Immigration is bad for the country because immigrants will destroy our values, make our streets less safe with drugs and violence, and ruin our economy.
I am not making that up unbelievably. Many conservatives really believe those things.

- The U.S. Constitution needs to be amended to prevent Gays from marrying. That will help stop our country from going into a cultural wasteland.

You know that I am not making up that absurb belief.

- The harsher the sentences for a crime the better it will deter crime.

I know liberals can be too lax on crime, but many conservatives believe in approaches that are harsher than research indicates is best. In other words, a "lock 'em up for good" approach is not good either.

There are a few others, like the War on Drugs, but I'll leave it there.

Excellent blogs
Redhead - I too would forward several of these comments to my liberal brother, but I no longer speak to him since he said (about the murdering, cowardly thugs who flew the planes that day) "it took a lot of courage".

Manx re:immigration
Conservatives, in general are not opposed to immigration. Those who are find themselves in a tiny minority. What we are opposed to are wide open borders (it's a dangerous world) and ILLEGAL immigration.

We understand that America is the greatest nation on earth and, because of this fact, that people are literally dying to get in.

We also understand that one of the most important things that sets us apart from the third-world toilets these people are fleeing is the rule of law. There is a process (horribly mired in bureaucracy as it may be) whereby people may enter our country legally and become citizens. Those who think they can jump to the head of the line subvert the system do not respect our laws and, therefore, should not be allowed in.

Another thing that helped America become great is the concept of the melting-pot. We welcome all who wish to enter legally with open arms and offer them every opportunity afforded to anyone living in our great country.

What troubles us is the number of immigrants who come and refuse to assimilate. There is nothing wrong with bringing the language and culture of your former homeland with you and passing them on to your children. There is something wrong with one who doesn't bother to learn the language and culture of his or her current home. If you are going to make a life here, you do yourself a great disservice by not "melting in."

Cookie re: the View
If you ever want to catch the lowlights, Allahpundit regularly posts the juicier clips on Hotair.com.

Manx
My point was that it is easy to side with someone who promises you everything you want or desire-liberals. It is tougher to say no and be responsible-Conservatives.

Fletch rocks!
...aside from Sowell's on point as usual article, for what it's worth, I'll throw in my vote for Fletch to start that blog. I'm a young conservative who simply appreciates the clarity that a remarkably sharp intellect brings to the very messy political table. I come here often to read and occasionally learn something. I'm quite comfortable writing nothing, despite the fact I love to write. This is the first time anyone has inspired me enough to actually write here. Fletch, you bring a level of discourse to this arena that is sure to put serious cracks in if not entirely demolish the most ardently stubborn liberal fortressess ever constructed. I'd actually pay money to read a debate between you and some of the more "confident" liberals who post on this site. Liberal Slayer fits you...like a glove.

In response to jcthosmasva
The good stuff my friend…

When I made the comment that conservatives are interested in equal opportunity for people of similar interests, I was just basing it off of say, the last eh… 5,000 years of how “social Darwinism” to rationalize the killing of other cultures. You might say it’s the way of the world, I would say it’s the way of man – and this needs to be changed. I’m glad you’re a libertarian-conservative, you probably believe Bush is the best president in the last century because of his faith based values, his strong ties to BIG oil companies or his ability to spend billions and get nothing accomplished. That’s conservative and libertarian! I mean, it’s the absolute definition!

As for a dung pile representing religion and tradition, yes I believe there can be some social benefit from it. If someone is able to learn and grow from this “pile of crap” then this certainly does fall into the category of effective social change. As for being a fat-butt, this seems to be the exact opposite of your libertarian-conservative viewpoint. Yes, they could be helping society in some ways, but are they taking more than they are inputting?

“Taking a tax-deduction is hardly lending justifiability to the government sanctioned rape of the taxpayers. I see it more as a reduction in government revenue, owing to the ineptness and waste of the government compared to a private organization with similar intentions.” As for this… muy bien. We agree on something.

In response to ScarlettPimpernel
Try reading first, pothead. Ahem.

The guy spent ten years on his book, eh? That’s quite a feat, even if he was a rich liberal snob, (as everyone here seems to hate…me too!) how’d he manage to live, take care of family, have a job? Hmmm… maybe he’s independently financed by some big time oil tycoon, who is obviously liberal. Die liberals!
As for my argument, which you clearly couldn’t read because of the lack of THC, it was based on where he got his info, and how you shouldn’t write a column based on what one side of an argument is representing. If this was a book review, it’d be different. People identifying themselves, all 48% of the voting population, that must make this book 100% true! No, I was pointing out what the guy missed, and how the argument couldn’t have possibly encompassed truthfully how much everyone gives.
Preciate the sly remark on Amerika, comrade. Mr. Abbie Hoffman would be proud of your good taste.
Jesus is with the conservatives clearly. Good riddance to all of those old-fashioned fads. Liberals, or socialistic yuppie bastards as you would probably call them, do not represent my opinions at all. They want more government, just like everyone else on this board. Go bush and go amerika!

In response to Fletch


First, what does the theory of relativity have to do with him citing governmental documents as his primary source? You’re absolutely right, buddy, the government is always right, keeps great records, is infallible in court decisions and never helps big government before poor people. Never. Also, gravity is not a universal law, and it is only appropriate under certain situations, just like any viewpoint. Where is that 12 story building? How big is a story? What’s at the bottom? See, many possible difficulties can come up with any type of argument.

Oh, I’m trying to put an end to all social programs. I just enjoy arguing with people who have way too much freetime and one-sided opinions.

Eh, he does make the connection between liberal and democrat, and if he didn’t make it clear enough, then it was directed towards the first 83 comments bashing democrats.

You’re idea of a free market doesn’t exist man. Try opening a hamburger shop, or a shoe company. Try making a living with music. It’s simply harder today than it used to, as half of our money goes to help out the big businesses who “put so much into” our economy. In reality these gigantic corporations take away from the people and put into the hands of corporations, which too, have been “people” since the late 1800s. You’ve been reading a ton of Ayn Rand lately, huh? My point is government intervention is worse now than ever, and you’re conservative idea of a free marketplace doesn’t exist in America like it should.

The point of me using the communist tagline, was to point out a earlier posters grouping skills. I truly do know the difference, I just like to poke fun at people who call liberals commies.

Who’s to judge what is viable to protests for? You? The Pope? Jesus? Bush? I guarantee if Bush jumped out of a building 12 stories high there would be a trampoline underneath with soft foam for him to land in, all fine and dandy. If you were to jump out, the whole world might collapse at the loss of such a fine thinker. Again, viewpoints are relative based on the experiences you are taught and given through your life’s social interactions. They are not natural. I repeat, they are not natural.

But oh, you talk about subjectivity in the next paragraph! So, you already know about how your interactions and experiences in the world are different from everyone else’s! So you must already know that what applies for you wouldn’t necessarily apply to someone who has never used electricity! Good job! (You must have really liked my first arguments to change so quickly in the same comment!)

No, it’s cool to post a list of someone else’s work and call it your own. Again, I wasn’t denying the potential truth the study offered, I was simply POINTING OUT certain aspects that would make this very unscientific.

I’m glad you think all poor people are stuck on cigarettes and heroin. It’s got to be true, and it has to be liberals’ fault for pushing these drugs! (At least by your argument) But my argument was that the social constructions of America actually were and are enforced to keep minorities from achieving as much power and wealth as the majority. Why is the middle class shrinking? Why do we have so few minorities in congress and the house? Why have we never had a president that wasn’t a white male protestant, except JFK, who was catholic? Because what happened in our past still affects us today.
If conservatives haven’t forgotten about the poor, then why no tax cuts? Why no job training? Why no fair trials? Or, better yet, why make a minimum wage that is unable to support it’s own workers? Good job conservatives! Keep the little man your number 1 priority!

Fletch...
I tell you, you are right up there with my man who uses his talent on loan.... Very eloquent and completely sensible rebuttals. DJ has the Triple-L syndrome(la-la-land)and is suffering form blindness due to the RCG Syndrome(Rose-Colored Glasses)Keep up the good work!

the most patience award goes to
Fletch. What he said.

Davey Jones, read Adam Smith to understand capitalism. One can open any shop one likes fairly easily and quickly. The problem is making a profit. This is made even more difficult because of taxes, licenses, regulations, healthcare etc etc. If we actually did away with more of these hindrances (which is the conservative approach, no?) then it would be much easier to make your own money. You, for instance, could open up a "Radical Revs!" shoppe selling Che Guavara t-shirts, black hoods, and those chinese suits that Chairman Mao wore. You would be supplying the needs and desires for people like yourself. These are called "customers". They, in turn, would give you money or other trade items that they stole from their well-to-do parents.

I can't spend all day teaching you useful things to make you happier but I will help you out: The reason we have had white men as President is that the country, and don't tell anyone this, has been at least 80% white for years now. Trust me, as soon as Ken Blackwell or Michael Steele or someone like them runs, I will be very happy to vote him or her into office.

And I don't know why you hate big business so much. Who do you think hires people?

One more thing, the top 15% of wealthy people pay 85% of our taxes. Is that fair? Do you think they use 85% of public services?

Learn and you won't have to be a hater.


Did anyone find this thread useful?
Not much content or stimulation in this thread.
Almost as boring as an astrological discussion ("Are Sagittarians or Scorpios more caring?")

Perhaps the distinction between "Liberals" and "Conservatives" is not so useful anymore? Perhaps there are better distinctions to think about and to discuss?


Liberal/charity Paradox
One of the many things that gets lost in the debate between liberalism and conservatism is that liberalism encourages uncharitable behavior. After all, if you truly believe it's the government's place to provide for the needy, then it's not your responsibility, is it? Liberals feel no need to give to charity because in their minds, they have already done their part by paying the huge taxes required to fund the government programs that the liberals favor over private sector charity. Along with this thought process comes a certain dehumanization that degrades society as a whole. If it's not my problem to help the needy, then I need not see them at all, let alone see them as people and members of society and it angers me when I encounter them by accident. Given the liberal/big government induced dehumanized state of mind, it's easy to transfer that anger to the needy and accelerate the degradation of society.

Lower Liberal Largesse
I wonder what would happen in the more 'compassionate' European countries if they had to completely step out from under the defense umbrella of the US and expend huge resources to develop and maintain their own conventional and non-conventional military assets. If some ultra-superpower were to provide America a similar defense umbrella, would we not then be able to more effectively "promote (not provide) the general welfare" of our citizenry?

Politicans CAN Correct Mistakes
President Kennedy once said:

"The difference between a MISTAKE and an ERROR is the WILLINGNESS to CORRECT it.

Accordingly, the test of a politican's motives in making a mistake is one of choice. Sadly, all politicans have egoes and pride, so they usually are quite unwilling to correct anything. This, at a minimum, tends to result in some very poor policies and decision making.

Cochise I agree
Abortion is wrong plus it tends to kill off future voters.

Social Security also. If not reformed soon it will crash and leave many seniors out in the cold due to economic ignorance and stubborness of many politicians.

Interesting Spin
This is an interesting spin on the book. From the articles I've read there are four categories of givers, and they fell in this order:

1) Religious Conservatives
2) Religious Liberals
3) Secular Liberals
4) Secular Conservatives

(and from what I've read the difference between 3&4 is greater than the difference between 1&2, though the largest difference is between 2&3)

To take these results and say Conservatives are more giving than Liberals is misleading. One could effectively argue that the Republican Party's ability to sway a large number of Religious voters over the past couple decades on one or two issues (homosexuality/abortion?) is the reason behind the difference. Remove those two issues, and there would likely be different results.

Do the giving habits of those who would be voting Liberal if not for those two issues really belong on the Conservative side of the balance sheet?

John Kerry -- 1995-1996
"Note the significant change that occurred once his returns came under scrutiny during Kerry's 1996 Senate campaign"

Something else happened in 1995 besides Kerry's Senate campaign that may have made a difference in his tax returns. He married Teresa Heinz. Who is noted as a philanthropist.

Liberal/Progressives in their own words
I have often heard this from such folks:
"I shouldn't HAVE to give to charity--the government should do all that".

The inability to perceive any difference between widespread compassion and cold bureaucracy is a hallmark for members of the progressive camp, it seems.

fletch v slabo
Wrong again slabo. I can't believe I read 'most' of that. Match goes to Fletch. Hands down.

A Note about Democracy
Whether Sweden is a duly-elected democracy is irrelevent. India is also a duly-elected democracy, and ranks 159th in per capita GDP. Even China beats them out (118th) with Communism.

(Of course, both countries are expanding their free markets, and are thereby experiencing their first real growth in decades.)

Whether it's a democracy or not, it's still socialist. Just because you can vote for your slave-masters doesn't mean you're free.

A Note about Scientific American
Well, slabo, as a matter of fact, sarcastic remarks about "intelligent falling" etc. (good one, I gotta remember that!), Scientific American *does* lean left on any issue that strays from the hard sciences.

That's one of the reasons I canceled my subscription decades ago.

In particular, illustrated in that very article presented by slabo, they believe the State should pay more for Basic Research. I.e., like many liberals and conservatives, they firmly believe in Big Government, so long as it spends money the way *they* think it should be spent. (Think about Dr. Sowell's book, "The Vision of the Annointed" -- they believe themselves part of the "annointed elite" -- hey, they're *trained scientists!!* -- who *should* have the final say in how *your* money is spent.)

So everything in their article centers around how wonderful the Nordic countries are because they out-spend the English-speaking ones in RESEARCH.

That's about all they care about. Get more money so they can play with their science toys. It doesn't matter who's robbed to get the money, just so long as it goes to science.

Fletch vs Slabo
...yeah slabo, I'm sorry but I must second Solid Action on this one. You've lost in a huge way. As your personal jabs increase, Fletchs' clear mastery of weilding facts has left you bleeding profusely. Similar to a ufc champion delivering elbows and fists to the head of his far weaker adversary, we only have yet to see you "tap out". Considering that some are rendered unable to do so, the ref often has to step in to "protect" the obtunded opponent. Guess who you are?

fletch versus slabo
Slabo wins in the "cut and paste" and "reacting emotionally" category. Meanwhile, Fletch wins, hands down, in the "ability to think and then respond substantively while being grounded in empiricism" category. Kudos to Fletch!

not misleading
to John:

You posit that it is misleading to assert that conservatives are more generous than liberals because the issue is more fairly defined as the difference between the religious and the secular.

You accept that the religious give more than the secularists. Most accept that more liberals are secular while more conservatives are religious. Ergo, logic would seem to indicate that conservatives are more generous than liberals (as a group, if that needs to be said).

This is a simple statement of fact while your contention is an explanation of why it is so. Neither negates the other.

fletch v slabo
Game, set, match to fletch.

BTW slabo- the United States of America is not a democracy; it is a Representative Republic, as in Republican Party.

We're losing
We the people are losing...the liberal agenda is gaining ground. Look around you. Liberal supreme court justices unashamedly admitting their role is to make law as they see fit, Democrat majorities in both houses of congress, Democrat majorities in state legislators, the complete rejection of logic and reason at the UN, leaks of classified material to the NYT given a free pass because it damages Bush, the complete rejection by the majority of the country in realizing we are in grave peril, and it is all made possible by a willing, ubiquitous, liberal press and the dumbing down of our educational system. If the 06 elections taught us anything it is the power of the press. The press trumped the blogs, talk radio, NR, etc….Unless a teacher comes along we limited government conservatives are doomed. In fact it is probably too late.

The true Americans
Our country is based on personal responsibility, capitalism and the freedom to choose our religion.

How then can the very liberal call themselves Americans? They want the government to be responsible for taking care of everyone, they persecute anyone who owns a company and isn't paying enough in taxes (so they say), and want us to be secular when it comes to free will in choosing our faith.

I do notice when liberals talk that there is a condescending attitude toward others and how much smarter they are.

The article Mr. Sowell writes is indicative of the true American: charitable and giving. I guess that makes me a true American! Plus that makes me conservative!

Amen!

Barb Fadrowski

The sense of personal responsibility
The impulse to undertake personal acts of charity come with the sense of one's personal responsibility as both a competent moral agent (i.e., you consider yourself to have the power to decide what is right and wrong, and necessarily judge *YOURSELF* as well as others) and a capable social actor (which means your belief that what you do - for good or ill - make an impact upon the community of which you consider yourself a part).

Apart from the religious psychopaths among their ranks (f'rinstance, the ones who are convinced that the recent manifestations of homosexuality among their leadership are caused by demonic possession), conservatives tend to think in terms of individual rights and responsibilities. "Liberals" speak instead of "privileges" and "entitlements" rather than rights, and are far more interested in excusing people's disabilities than calling upon them to exercise their capacities.

The "Liberal," holding that the individual is helpless flotsam (or worse, the cruel, greedy capitalists' jetsam) awash in the vast ocean of humanity, don't consider even their own personal capabilities to be efficacious except as worker ants in support of "the Movement" (whateverinhell that might be). They really don't believe in human autonomy. Not even their own.

Not all putative "Liberals" are necessarily uncharitable weasels, of course. Strange to the modern social conservatives' consideration of the despised self-identified "Gay community," from the early days of the AIDS crisis their charitable conduct in support of each other has been exemplary. Comes of a conscious sense of solidarity in a persecuted minority, I suppose, as well as a recognition of the fact that if they were to rely upon their heterosexual "Liberal" co-religionists, they'd all be dead and incinerated before the week was out.

--
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