Join The Debate!

this is scary

As long as the Washington DC political elites of the Democratic and Repuplican parties run this country we will only see government further alienate the average citizen. However, I do not believe the "Two Party System" will lose control any time soon. They are and have been building a neo-colonial empire for decades and centuries. They are and have been inviting the ruling classes of every country in the world to grow rich with them. The global economy is a global empire and America is the throne of that empire for now. There are two truths to an empire that I know for sure:

1) The average person become worse-off the larger an empire grows and the longer it is in power.

2)Empires always fall.

Something about Sowell's comments

Have also horrified me and made me realize that the State's brainwashing has been very successful with some.

"The military have been criticized for everything from not protecting an Iraqi museum while being shot at to not being as nice to the terrorists imprisoned in Guantanamo as people in safe and comfortable editorial offices would like."

not being nice to the "terrorists". So innocent until proven guilty in a court of law doesn't apply to Thomas Sowell. Those people in Guantanamo Bay are alleged "terrorists", since they haven't even been given a fair trial, until the Supreme Court recently said otherwise, and yet Bush has said that he's going to try to find a way out of that.

"More dangerously, TV reporters broadcasting from where shells are falling blithely say such things as "the shells are landing about five miles north of here."
Does it ever occur to them that their internationally broadcast comments will reach those who are doing the shelling, who can adjust their range accordingly and then kill more efficiently?"

Does it ever occur to Thomas Sowell that TV reporters serve a valuable service to those who live, play, eat, etc. where the shells are falling by telling them that they need to get the hell out of there.

Draft

I am a retired air force officer who volunteered in 1967 in the middle of the Vietnam War. As a father, I was exempt from draft. As the sole surviving son of an infantry officer killed in WWII, I was exempt from combat. By 1969 I was in a weapon systens officer in an F4E fighter squadron with a volunteer statement for South East Asia. In 1971, I arrived at rocket city, DaNang AB, RVN.

Do we need a draft? Not for me. (Yeah, I'm from the South. My Great grandfather rode with Nathan Bedford Forrest and was listed as KIA in 1863. He died in 1913.)

Unlike WWII or my generation modern weapon systems require skilled operators and maintainers. To attract and retain this high tech work force is expensive. A major F15 pilot makes $85K and can receive a $25K annual bonus for extending his commitment for seven years. Technology is replacing war fighters. Would a draft spur volunteers to land the best jobs thereby reducing manpower costs?

If we reinstate the draft, we should eliminate all deferments and exemptions. College deferments are a corrosive element that fuels class warfare. Why should little Buffy stay at Princeton when Mike gets drafted? Eliminating college deferments would also make the ROTC debate more interesting. Would this change the anti-ROTC bias?

There are two major benefits to broad miliary service: responsibility and experience.

Any military veteran will tell you that they were challenged by their service. A service member is expected to be a team player and use their inititative. Officers, even Lieutenants, are expected to lead. In combat, you find bonds of friendship and loyalty civilians will never understand. Service makes you better.

After WWII, no one could run for office without a war record. In the 50s & 60s, congress was filled with people who had volunteered to serve and did so with distinction. It was great to have the adults in charge - Bob Dole, Sam Nunn, Dan Inoyue, and many other veterans - of both houses. They asked hard questions and made the tough decisions based on the national interest rather than on partisan politics. Draft or no draft, those days are gone forever.

Arch

re: draft is slavery

I would like like to say i am sorry to everbody else for sinking this low and uneducated but "BillRight" your a moron.

re: risenodoz

"Most Americans are also too self-centered (and rich/risk adverse) to ever risk their life for the good of our country (myself included)."

Speak for yourself. I volunteered.

Do I have to tell you what I think of your willingness to admit what a gutless wonder you are? Stay out of the way of the men, sonny. If you haven't learned enough manners to not criticize your elders, at least learn enough not to criticize your betters.

And by the way, we did not use French mercenaries in the Revolutionary War. The French sent aid, including military forces, after "Gentleman Johnny" Burgoyne surrendered at Saratoga, NY. There were French troops at Yorktown and the French navy kept the British navy from reinforcing, supplying, and evacuating Cornwallis at Yorktown. (Back then the French still had intact spinal columns. They came to our aid in support of their ongoing conflict with the British.) The Brits DID use mercs - German Hessians. Study some American history.

No Draft...Mercenaries

Riddle me this:

There are not enough jobs in Mexico so Mexicans come to America to get jobs. Americans complain (especially conservatives only because a majority of the conservative vote is from areas of the country where most labor is unskilled) that this hurts our laborers and makes them lose their jobs. Most Americans are also too self-centered (and rich/risk adverse) to ever risk their life for the good of our country (myself included).

Furthermore should any further problems arise (iran/hezies) there stands a good chance that our military would be spread to thin to be fully effective.

So why don't we hire these Mexicans as mercenaries? They would be much more willing to risk their lives and they wouldn't cost nearly as much. We did use many French mercenaries to win the Rev War, so it's not as foriegn as one might think.

-Always be thinking

Universal boot camp

Rather than a "Universal Service" for 2 years or 4 years or whatever, I would like to see boot camp and basic infantry training for 3-6 months. Graduation would be required to vote - disability only as an exemption. Perhaps it could be accomplished in several sessions to accommodate students' summer vacation schedules. Build some of the history and civics lessons into it. In basic we had classroom time on First Aid and the UCMJ, so why not some basic classroom covering history and civics in this scenario as well? Make it mandatory to attend by, say, 25? But only graduates can vote, hold federal jobs or be elected to federal office. Make this the replacement for the current boot camps in the military services and allow the various branches to *accept* enlistment from among the *graduates.* Fill the military academies from the graduates. Keep our military force volunteer and free of those who don't want to serve. Just make them do the 3-6 months boot/basic & infantry training, say sometime between age 16 and 25

As far as handling today's youth, I have faith that the DI's are still able to cope with raw recruits as they were "back in the day," whenever that was. Y'all know what I mean.

Of course, enabling legislation would require amending the Constitution - for the voting/jobs/office part, that is. The business about Amendment XIII and involuntary servitude is fodder for the sophomore bull session. Federal regs already (and have for many years) require 6 years of military service for all able-bodied male citizens.

Even without the vote/jobs/office carrot/stick, I can still see merit in requiring basic & infantry training. We would have an immediate pool of people with basic rifleman skills, people who could more rapidly join the fight in any future need. People would know which end of a firearm is which, adding to both increased firearm safety and violent crime reduction.

Learn from Dr. Sowell

If you read this column regularly, you will come to learn that intentions alone are insufficient to determine action. That is the trap of liberalism, that you don't dare fault a person for the bad results of their actions if you see that they have good intentions; to which I say, bunk.

I aim this point at those who suggest compulsory service of one brand or another. Remember that you are asking that this service be in some FEDERAL capacity. Think again what you are suggesting, because it is bad. When you put any thing, any person, or any amount of money in federal hands, you are asking for it to be mismanaged or abused. Our military is the only federal government program that does it's job properly and efficiently ($300 hammers aside).

I can appreciate the suggestion that teens facing a minimum two-year stint in service, will see an incentive to prevent it from becoming four years by graduating. I also know that those liberal forces who derive their power by controlling others would use this system as they use every other, and that for every intended consequence there are up to five unintended ones.

A better, more consistent, and more elegant solution to many of the problems and sub-problems addressed by posters on this topic would be the abolition of the Deparment of Education, and the immediate institution of a comprehensive educational voucher system enacted by each state, or preferably each county, with NO federal control or oversight whatsoever.
Parents given the freedom to choose how their children are educated will gravitate towards those schools which reflect the values they wish their children to gain. Patriotism would increase, respect for authority would increase, critical thinking would increase. Hundreds of new schools would appear almost instantly built on principles of hard work and discipline, rather than political correctness. The teaching of Reaganesque self-reliance would replace the public school vision of victimhood and outcome-based education. Self-esteem would become authentic because it is based on measurable achievement through competition, rather than the hand-holding and hand-wringing of the nanny state. As a result, military recruitment would thrive because kids would be raised and taught why this country is great, and who it is and always has been that made it that way.

Of course, this would seriously hamper the efforts of the GLAAD/NOW/NARAL indoctrinators, so you can bet their lobbies would go into full attack to prevent it, as they have every time it has been proposed.

Military Draft

Consider a Universal National Service plan. Every one not too demented or physacally unable, over the age of 18 would be required to serve 2 years in the service of the US of A. The first six months would be a basic military training program and the remainder some sort of public service. Those that found the military to their liking could contiinue for the remainder or sign up for a full term: become volunteers in the all-volunteer military. The howls from the first selectees would be deafening, but after that we could expect a "I did it,so can you: Stop whining" response.At the very minimum all citizens would have an appreciation of what the military is about.

Draft

As a 20 year old in the Marine Corps, I can say that I certainly believe that compulsary military service would be beneficial to the individual American teenager (it certainly benefited me!), however the overall quality of the armed services would suffer. Our society simply isn't as patriotic as it was 65 years ago, and the majority of Americans are out of shape wimps. (Sad, but true) As the global war on terrorism continues, the burden will remain on willing young men and women who recognize the tremendous threat to America. The others will continue to sit idly by as we struggle to defeat America's enemies.

It is never black and white...

I am an Army Captain getting ready for my second year long trip to Iraq. My first tour was for fourteen months in Baghdad. I served as an enlisted soldier first and was afforded the opportunity to go to West Point. Later on I was able to go to grad school. In trade I gave more of my time to the service and accepted greater responsibility. I was born in Detroit and grew up in North Las Vegas. My family was not wealthy and I was in need of some discipline and an opportunity to grow up. This is my background, so upfront you can understand the lens I look through.
There is merit to both sides of the argument of whether or not there should be a draft. There is plenty of support for not having a draft. As far as the military being a dead end or a trap for minorities and the poor, I disagree. Like anything, your return investment follows the line of what you put in. I started out as a seventeen year old Private First Class in the Artillery and now I have two engineering degrees and I fly twenty-eight million dollar helicopters. I vividly recall several high school teachers telling me I had thrown my life away by joining the military. When I returned home after flight school as a Lieutenant, those same teachers told me that it was probably the best thing I had ever done, as I was a seventeen year old know-it-all in need of discipline when I left. I took advantage of everything I could and I have moved up in life. There are plenty of people who go to college and never finish or amount to anything. Opportunity is only half the equation. There are also the requirements of discipline and maturity to follow through and see those opportunities to fruition. Success is there for whoever is willing to work for it no matter what color or gender you may be.
A draftee military is not an ideal, but neither is a volunteer force that is overextended, over worked, underpaid and used as a punch line on both sides. The current stop-loss policy in effect in the Army is for all intents and purposes a draft, albeit an extremely selective one targeting people who have already done their part and for whatever reason wish to leave the service. The greatest benefit I can see to reinstituting the draft is the lessons the draftees will learn. For example, life is precious in America. We value all human life. We value being polite to the point we will not allow people to say what is on their minds as it may offend someone. We even strive to not maltreat animals and there are laws that protect them from undue harm. The rest of the world is not this way. Life is cheap. All life… men women and children are all worthless, though the men tend to be worth slightly more I am afraid to say. One of the greatest lessons that I took away was really how good we have it. In some places people wonder if they will eat tomorrow, or if their neighbors are going to kill them over religious differences, or if their daughters are going to be raped because one of the rival family clans still feels slighted. We worry about who will win American Idol and our poor are the most at risk to die from complications of obesity. It sounds absurd until you put it in context and until you live it, you cannot truly appreciate it. Due to my assignments, I have lived in Germany for four of the last six years. I get to see firsthand the abortion that the European social system really is. It sounds good until you find out the tax rate is up to 50% and gas is €1.30 a liter (roughly $6 a gallon). Unemployment is around 11% and welfare and immigration are huge challenges. Based on my experiences from traveling the world and seeing things for myself and not just believing what CNN or Fox News told me, I knew instead of just thinking that America, though imperfect, had it better than anyone else in the world. What we have is precious and worth fighting for. All of us. My belief is that initially a compulsory service would be very painful, but as time went on and it was more accepted it would become less so. I also believe that the only way to accurately judge something is to find something else to compare it to. Service outside of the US would do this. Soldiers are all ambassadors, and all those who believe their views are not being presented to outsiders enough will get that opportunity. I hope they are not crushed when they find out that much of the world does not care what we do, it will be wrong no matter what. This again comes from my own personal experience. Many of those who hate the way things are done would come to find that our ways are not so bad, and many who feel we do no wrong will be exposed to new ways of thinking. Either way I believe all will come back with a greater love of their country.

... what he said ...

Buck nailed that one.

Military Draft

I read Mr. Sowell nearly evry week in the Champaign News Gazette, and enjoy his articles. With regard to his article on the draft. Particularly with regard to sacrifices at home. I know we are not makeing nearly the sacrifices our families made during WWII. I just wanted to remind everyone there are families making sacrifices, and thoughs are the families of our service personnel. A well written article.

tired ..

I'm tired of menck. I'm tired of attacks on the noble in favor of the effete. The only talking points I've seen here come from the lefties. "Cut and run" is a term that has a visceral connection to those of us who did not.

Talking Points Memo

"The fact that they didn't cut and run..." - body bagger.

I'm so tired of that phrase. Maybe you didn't mean to parrot the Republican talking points, but whether or not you did, I hope you're not suggesting that it is always cowardice to refuse to kill other people.

Here goes the blame game again

...I get so tired of hearing about "marxist loving lefties".....don't you all get tired of saying that rant over and over again? I certainly get tired of reading it. Try a different ideological take, please, just for the sake of opening up a different dialogue.

And as for lefties against the military? Where the hell does that come from? I have heard of lefties complaining of placing the best fighting forces in the world in an unwinable situation in Iraq, that we went in without proper body armor, and with incredibly poor civilian execution of this conflict, we now see what we have sown in Iraq. That is what we complain of. We didn't need to fight this fight, and we have handcuffed our soldiers who are no longer soldiers but policemen in the middle of a sectarian war. And if you want to call support for Bush's follie in Iraq patriotic, then you ought to turn in your citizenship ASAP because who needs fools like that. You complain of poor homeland security when the total annual budget for homeland security is spent in 63 hours in Iraq. Ok patriots, is that money well spent defending us?
Is it? Your faux patriotism makes me want to vomit.

And as far as Mr. Sowel's column goes....I would only think there would be a greater outcry against the Iraq war IF there were to be compulsory participation in the armed forces. As some of you suggest, if there were to be another terrorist attack in our country, I can guarantee you will see a huge uptick in volunteers, conservatives AND liberals. Cons don't have the corner on patriotism, you only think you do.

Except

"They were pretty bad; mostly just cannon fodder."

Except for the ones that distinguished themselves time and again in service for their country.

Shame on each and every one of you for bad mouthing the men and boys who served their country. They may not have liked being where they were, but they did the best they could under extreme conditions. In two world wars, in several "police actions", our brave soldiers, marines, and sailors protected this country.

Too bad you people forgot that.

Wondering ...

what happened to my 1:30pm post? Was it cut for slicing Mencken and quoting BlueBustard? Others have. Was it cut for being too long? Others are longer. Was it cut for talking about my son in the Marines? Others have. Was it cut for talking about my time in Vietnam? Others have. Was it cut for not talking about the draft? No the draft was central to the post. Life is full of mysteries.

There do seem to be a lot more vets

coming out of iraq and running as dems? Let me guess, all your hypocritical statements will go right out the window as soon as the rethugs start swift boating them.

And how about all those young conservatives that fight so valiantly from the keyboard front...why don't you push them to go fight...I am sure more than one of you on this board is a chickenhawk.

And obviously you have all missed the articles in the army times about the lowering of recruiting standards...you can be up to 42 and go now, or a white supremacists or drug dealers or car thieves...but god forbid you are gay or believe in helping people not oil companies.

@csg

First of all, your quotation is not a Biblical reference. The point I was trying to make was that modern American conservativism is dominated by a Judeo-Christian theology that drives not only grass-roots voter participation, but also high-level government policy. Perhaps you are not familiar with President Bush's Faith-Based and Community Initiatives:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/

To claim that the values imbued by Judeo-Christian theology are what make the Republican superior to all other political movements, while simultaneously perpetuating Marxist ideological tenants, is nothing short of hypocrisy.

Take it from a Libertarian who has watched Republicans jettison more than one principle to gain majority status, this behavior doesn't surprise me at all.

I don't see

For Goshawk

I don't see many of the sons and daughters of Congress going into the military currently. In fact its a news story when McCain's son joins. Before we have a draft we need to see the chickenhawks from both parties commit their blood to the venture.

Per Reuters:
"The percentage of members of Congress with children serving in the military is only slightly above 1 percent. Sens. Christopher Bond, a Missouri Republican, and Tim Johnson, a South Dakota Democrat, have had sons serve combat missions in Iraq, Time said."

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyid=2006-07-29T193028Z_01_N29240690_RTRUKOC_0_US-CONGRESS-MCAIN-SON.xml&src=rss

For Mencken

What you fail to comprehend is, that is exactly what we're doing. Standing by Principle. Loyal to our country and to the men and women who defend her. Unwilling to "sell out" to world opinion, or bleeding heart Liberals that want to blame the worlds problems on us.

Or What?

@FeedFwd

"We need to grow up in this country. Whether the schools or government jobs or private jobs, we need to be able to say to somebody that "you just don't cut the mustard. You must go until you acquire the proper skills, motivation, and attitude to contribute. Until then, hit the road." Then we need to stop providing so many safety nets for these irresponsible people and let them take personal responsibility for themselves or suffer the consequences of failing to do so."

And then what? So you let them starve to death?

Sounds like Social Darwinism to me. I thought conservatives rejected Marxist theology.

Mt. 5:42. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

Is. 58:66. Is this not the fast which I choose, to loosen the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and break every yoke? Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into the house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Is. 58:10. "And if you give yourself to the hungry, and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then your light will rise in darkness, and your gloom will become like midday.

Yeah, Jesus would just love to kick these dead beats down the road.

Flunkees

...maybe this new band of students who cannot get out of highschool, due to a test ,( I hear that it's a racist test) can get the option of taking it again or join the Army...say you flunk it 3 times....oh no, there's that "3 strikes..." thing showing up again...forget it!

Women

I agree with Dr. Sowell that the military could use a few more good men. I think the real problem is our women, who often talk their children out of volunteering. I've seen it with my own step children, who are patriotic, but don't have enough gumption to risk their mother's potential pain. It's basically the NIMBY response. It's unfortunate for the children, too, since a dose of military discipline might well stimulate their decisiveness and creativity, as well as satisfying their need for adventure, which, in turn, will likely bode well for the rest of their lives. Rather than trying to talk them into the service directly, I indicate how well I think of the military by, among other things, always buying dinner for men and women in uniform who happen to be present when we are eating in restaurants.

No Draft!

TO: All
RE: We Can Do Better!

Universal Governmental Service!

After graduating HS, or dropping out, immediately go into the government for a period of 2-4 years; depending on the work you end up doing there.

First phase is 'boot camp'. As in the Army.

Then you go on to whatever sort of training your 'selected' specialty requires. You could go into the Army. You could go into another military service. You could go into GSA or forestry or whatever. It would all depend on a combination of apptitude, skills and the needs of the service.

At the end, you get out and you have funding similar to what Nam vets had for advanced education; academic or vocational.

We argued this in HS debate back in '68-69. Interestingly enough, it's coming up THIS year too.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Draft

I spent six years in the Marine Corps, including Vietnam.

I used to think a draft was a good idea, but frankly today's military is far better than it could possibly be if watered down by draftees.

Rather than a draft, I suggest we go back to teaching history and civics in grade and high school so some young people might come to understand what patriotism and voluteerism is all about. That got lost somewhere over the past few decades.

The Military Draft

In his dissembling column on the military draft it is unclear as to whether Dr. Sowell favors the draft or not. He is, as usual, factually inaccurate regarding the average college student's access to ROTC. My guess is that over 90% of undergarads going to public institutions have access toROTC programs. Those attending private institutions become the next generation of Wolfowitz's and Cheney's. Military strategists who returned their draft notices stamped "Return to Sender Address Unknown".

The rich in our society view military duty in the same light that most of us view bungy jumping. It is a voluntary and, in some ways, admirable endeavor. It can generate a slight amount of jealousy and resentment in those standing on the sidelines. While Justin and Britney argue loudly about the war in the Student Union, Juan and Jamal get to patrol Fallujah. Anyway, they volunteered.

Draft

I spent 23 years in the AF and can assure you that draftees and other malcontents are more trouble than they are worth. One jackass can create more problems than you can imagine as was seen during the Vietnam War. And one other thing what do you do about gays? Right now they are exempt but what about in time of a draft? Until these questions are answered I say rely on the volunteer system just pay the folks what they are worth. WWII was a totaly different kind of war where huge resources and manpower were needed. This war against islamic radicals is small and relys as much on intel as brute force. Like Dr Sowell I cringe when some pompas ass sits up in Congress and passes judgement on some GI who has a half second to make a life & death decision. Rather than a draft how about an IQ test before someone is allowed to vote.

Mr Sowell is correct

Mr Sowell is correct in that by instituting a mandatory service obligation, even for just two years of service, the military would be badly damaged by it.

Anti-war crowds will protest/riot/sue or just plain run for Canada. Those of us in the military (I currently serve in the Navy as a recruiter until I go back to a ship in two years) will have to suffer from the severe drop in quality of new recruits. It's hard enough to get this current crop of young people, who VOLUNTEER to serve, to follow orders sometimes. Image what it'll be like with a whole lot people who already hate the military? Having those people around will severely damage the military's morale.

Unless you want to wear the uniform then you should not even be allowed to touch it. Plain and simple.

A couple points

Great piece -- as usual -- from Dr. Sowell.

Two points, from the perspective of a retired naval officer with 21 years active service:

1) "Compulsory Service" is seen for the oxymoron it is if you take a moment to ponder on it.

2) The military Services are not there to help anybody "grow up" -- that's your mommy and daddy's job. If that job has not been sufficiently accomplished for any reason prior to one's arrival in the military, military training, discipline and comradery can do a fine job of encoraging one to reach previously unattained levels of maturity. But the military's interest in doing so is to make one useful to its purposes once one is there -- at the very least not a danger to one's brothers and sisters in arms while engaged in often dangerous activities. Good leaders apply that at the personal level to inspire individuals reach their potential. To the extent that happens, it's a win-win all around.

Salute

My thanks and prayers go to our military and the service they provide. I support my ROTC program, I have a daughter that has been involved since 6th grade, now a junior. The dedication that is shown to community during the year by these high schoolers is heartwarming. I only wish it had been available to me when I was that age. I was to young for Vietnam and to old for Desert Storm.
Character and a sence of belonging is what the military provides and what is needed for most of todays citizens of all ages.
We are in a war that is not of our design and that makes the talking heads afraid. As the British learned during the American revolution the style of warfare has changed, we as modern Americans need to reconize that. I don't think that we have seen the last attack on our soil.

NO DRAFT

I am currently a member of the United States Army. Todays military is purely a volunteer force, and it needs to stay that way. I take a solemn pride in being able to do what few want to, and fewer still can. We are the best military in the world because every single member wants to be there. Fill us full of draftees, (especially the whiny collegiate party types that think they have everything figured out), and out effectiveness will go down the toilet so fast it will make your head swim.

I don't want most of todays youth in my Army. They do not deserve to be there. I would rather have 1 volunteer watching my back then 10 draftees.

Many people have the misconception that those of us in the military were either too dumb to go to college, or were forced to go by a local judge.

I would love to have words with anyone of that belief. Most professional Soldiers these days have just as many Degrees as an equivalent member of the business community.

'nuff said,

Chris

Military Service in the Congress?

Well, let's see how much different they are than...say Teddy Kennedy... John (3 quick purple hearts and I'm home) Kerry the self inflictor...Anybody know anything about Murtha...other than he disproves the old adage 'Once a Marine'?....John McCain, a sure enough Viet Nam Hero, but since going to congress...well, just as Kerry and Hanoi Jane have their pictures in a prominent place in Hanoi, so will McCain have his picture prominently hung in Mexico City someday....No, I think a taste of the Potomac is mesmerizing to anyone who has dared go to Washington and I don't think military service has much to do with it....

The best incentive to serve

I think we ought to modify the Constitution such that no one is a citizen who hasn't served a minimum of 2 years in Federal (not necessarily military) service (or 10 years in the National Guard) following their 18th birthday. Can't vote, can't hold public office, can't hold a civil-service job, can't get a Government grant to go to college; all you get to do is pay taxes. You'd have people lining up to join - especially all the wannabe politicians. Boy, wouldn't a dose of rigorous mental and physical discipline with patriotic education do wonders for them?

Refer to the immortal Robert Heinlein's masterpiece "Starship Troopers" (the book, not the surround-sound abortion that was the movie) for a complete description of how such a system would work.

Socialism and the Military

I think the ultimate irony is that the American military is probably the most socialist organization in the world. Yet most socialists have nothing but contempt for them.

The glaring class disparity...

and contempt between those who serve and those who don't has never been more obvious then today. Service members are generally less affluent, have fewer opportunities for education or advancement, and as Jimmy Carter observed, also tend to be Southern and patriotic. What a shame that such a pack of sniveling ingrates as we see in some Universities and other communities has seen fit to profit from the military's sacrifices while maligning and disparaging those who serve.

No draft

Strongly against the concept of a draft unless in an actual major war situation. Historically those that were drafted were indeed the middle class and poor. Upper middle class went to college. The wealthy went to college or had cushy jobs in guard units which (then) did not go into combat. Its too easy to abuse, and has had an amazing track record of actual abuse, back to the days of the Civil War, where wealthy individuals could get out of service.

Having said that if there was universal service, where EVERYONE was forced to serve I would be more for it, but I think you'll find the military itself is opposed to a draft.

NO ON THE DRAFT!

Who needs deadheads that were FORCED to go into the military? No thanks. It was a different breed of Americans way back when.

However, I'd like to see something along the lines of Starship Troopers that additional rights are given to those who serve.

Here is an excerpt from Neal Boortz that says it better than I could but he forgot to mention serving their nation.

"It is completely absurd that the vote of someone who has squandered every educational opportunity placed in front of them, who has failed to develop a work ethic, who downloaded a litter of skateboard riders and graffiti artists they can't afford to raise, and who now depends on legalized plunder for their very existence, should count as much as the vote of someone who works hard, agonizes over choices and makes the right decisions, provides for their own family and plans for the future without having to dive into someone else's pocket."

"Somebody's Gotta Say It" by Neal Boortz. Regan Books. Spring, 2007

Jim

I predict very few if any. They will expect our military to "Protect" their sorry tails!

Dr. Sowell

Too bad the dunderheads we elect to office don't have Dr. Sowell as an advisor.

The wisdom that he shares with us through his writings is truly priceless.

Thanks

Jimmy Carter,you took my line........

However,I can add that the South is where America's great warrior class has consistently hailed from-
At my nephew's recent commencement exercises from a high school in Texas, I had the unique opportunity to witness one of the most outstanding displays of patriotism that I have ever seen- (I am from California)
My nephew is now proudly serving his country as an elite Army Ranger.
Honored to follow in the footsteps of his older brother-

Our Nation would cease to exist were it not for young MEN such as these!
What a remarkable contrast to the spoiled, selfish, me-first, anti-war children that fill our colleges and universities today.

Good analysis of

the conditioned state of mind the Liberal universities are inducing into society. Several of us vets have discussed on this forum, the downfalls of having a draft today. And, of course, the usual Liberals show up who always believe they have the true answers. Because they have this "Vision" of what the world should be. Throwing caution to the wind as they proudly display their ignorance. Just as you said.

They ramble on with their idiotic ideology about war and peace, when in reality they have no true understanding of either. Many of them claim that what the Middle East does is none of our business. I mostly ignore their child-like rants because I know one day, Realties of the real world will slap them upside the head.

Draft

In 1942 some of my friends were drafted. They had no idea what part of the military would be their final destination.
I enlisted in the Army. In my company, when we arrived in North Africa, about 85% were draftees. There were some good men in the draftee group. Somehow, those of us who were volunteers had a different outlook on what had to be done. It was as if those of us who shared a common sense of duty were raised differently than the others. Our all volunteer Military is the very best. I agree with you about the ROTC.

Sowell column on a draft

As WWII veteran I know what the draft did for me -- it heopoed me to grow up.

That's why almost all my contemporaries agree that we should have two years of compulsory national service for every kid who turns 18 and can pass a physical. Give them food, clothing and walking sround money, and the tough love of military discipline. Should any want to enlist in the real military they could be transferred and brought up to pay scale.

Benefits? It would teach the kids that they can amount to something, discipline themselves and find direction in their lives.

Not long ago I was astounded by a black woman, half my age,in local government, who espoused the concept of compulsary national service, partly because it would help overcome the entitlement mentality.