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Tuesday, July 25, 2006
Thomas Sowell :: Townhall.com Columnist
Then and now
by Thomas Sowell
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Those of us old enough to remember World War II face many painful reminders of how things have changed in Americans' behavior during a war. Back then, the president's defeated opponent in the 1940 election -- Wendell Wilkie -- not only supported the war, he became a personal envoy from President Roosevelt to Britain's Prime Minister Winston Churchill.

We were all in it together -- and we knew it. People who had been highly critical of American foreign policy before we were attacked at Pearl Harbor now fell silent and devoted themselves to winning the war.

What if the people, institutions, and attitudes of today were somehow taken back in time to World War II? What would have been the result? Would we have ended up winning or losing that war?

What about the great cry of the hour, a cease fire?

It so happens that World War II had the biggest cease fire in history. It was called "the phony war" because, although France was officially at war with Germany, the French did very little fighting for months, while the bulk of the German army was in Poland and France had overwhelming military superiority on the western front.

Famed correspondent William L. Shirer reported on the "unreal" western front, with soldiers "on both sides looking but not shooting." German soldiers bathed in the Rhine and waved to French soldiers on the other side, who waved back.

During this period Hitler offered to negotiate peace with France and England.

Kofi Anan would have loved it.

On November 19, 1939, Shirer's diary reported: "For almost two months now there has been no military action on land, sea, or in the air." On January 1, 1940, he wrote, "this phony kind of war cannot continue long." But it was now exactly four months since war was declared. How is that for a cease fire?

Did this de facto cease fire lead to peace? No. Like other cease fires, it helped the aggressor.

It gave Hitler time to move his divisions from the eastern front, after they had conquered Poland, to the western front, facing France.

Now that military superiority along the Rhine had shifted in favor of the German armies, the war suddenly went from being phony to being devastatingly real.

Hitler attacked and France collapsed in six weeks.

Eventually, by 1945, allied armies had both Germany and Japan retreating. What would have happened if we had had Kofi Anan and the mushy mindset called "world opinion" at work then?

Kofi Anan would undoubtedly have called for a cease fire.

He could have pointed out that the American response to Germany was wholly "disproportionate" because the Germans had never landed troops in America or bombed American cities, and were certainly no real threat to the United States at that point.

Much of the Japanese navy was at the bottom of the ocean by this time and most of their planes had been shot down. Why not a negotiated settlement, in order to spare innocent civilian lives?

And what if we had listened to such talk?

No doubt Germany and Japan would have signed some kind of negotiated agreement in order to get the allied armies off their backs and get some breathing room.

Both Germany and Japan had programs to try to build nuclear bombs. One of the Nazis' last acts before surrendering was to send material by submarine to Japan to help advance their nuclear program.

Any peace we might have negotiated with Japan would have given the Japanese time to develop not only nuclear technology but also war planes whose plans had been gotten from Germany, which had the most advanced planes in the world at that time.

There is not the slightest doubt that Japan would not have had the slightest hesitation to drop nuclear bombs on American cities. And they would not have come back in later years to wring their hands at what they had done, as too many American have done at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

But we didn't cease firing until our enemies were defeated. Kofi Anan and today's "world opinion" would not have liked that.

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Thomas Sowell is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institute and author of The Housing Boom and Bust.
 
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Good parable and
analysis of what is going on today. When 9/11 happened, all of America came together! Momentarily. The politicians soon got back to business as usual, splitting the country apart manipulating and controlling the masses pandering for votes, with no regard for our country. They succeeded. They succeeded in weakening America in the eyes of the world and emboldening our enemies.

Let's hope that Israel continues to ignore the bleeding heart Liberal/anti-war crowd and does the job right.

THE DEMOCRATS
remind me of a kid who gets bullied a lot and seeks to win fights by saying things like: "if you don't quit bothering me, I'm gonna ram my face into your fists until you do!" The Democrats are a paper tiger and have been since the last of the FDR libs bit the dust. It's the party of the namby-pamby hanky-twisters so out of step with the real world that it's nearly suicidal for the country to have them running the show. The American people clearly see this and the results are that since 1968, the libs have only held the POTUS seat for 12 years. That last two libs in charge have been Jimmy "52 Hostages" Carter and Bill "I got Lewinskied today" Clinton. Libs are the boy scouts of the political world, wait, more likely the CUB scouts.

It isn't our father's patriotism!
That is for sure. today folks are so worried about being politically correct and so intent on making themselves an environmental paradise that they cannot see the truly important things.
I keep thinking it is going to be a wake up call to see just how many rockets Hamas and Hezbollah have, nope they just continue on their merry little way.
I've wondered if rationing, especially gas, would not get their attention, make folks realize we are at war and have been for a very long time.

WWII
Dr. Sowell somewhat exaggerates the solidarity of the American people in WWII. Some conservatives wanted to focus on fighting the Japanese and largely ignore the Germans. Some conservatives believed that FDR knew in advance about the impending attack on Pearl Harbor. Col. Robert McCormick, publisher of the Chicago Tribune, committed treason by revealing in news articles written by reporter Stanley Johnson that the US had broken the Japanese naval code. McCormick assumed that FDR had been able to read Japanese messages prior to Pearl Harbor that disclosed the attack plans. Only the refusal of US codebreakers to testify against McCormick and Johnson (and further compromise US codebreaking activities) prevented their trial for treason. Fortunately, the Japanese intelligent services apparently did not read the Chicago Tribune. The American Left stridently opposed US involvement in WWII until June 1941, when Hitler attacked the Stalinist Soviet Union, the American leftists' true spiritual home. Then and only then did the American Left demand our entry into the war. Had Hitler not invaded the USSR before Pearl Harbor the American Left would have done what it does today -- interfere with any attempt to prosecute the war to final victory.

Our father's patriotism
The generations which inhabited this country before and during World War II did not believe in political correctness. They still had a Jacksonian bent toward foreign policy, to wit, 'Leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone, but hurt me, and I'll kill you!'. Our leaders were of the same bent.

We came out of WWII with a monopoly on the atomic bomb, but left-wing kooks quickly passed the secrets along to their Soviet pals. You see, the left was supposed to eventually take over this country. Well, it didn't quite work out that way.

Today, however, we are too consumed with political correctness and guilt over our way of life to recognize the lull before the storm. My only hope is that the idiotic Muslims do not wait until their success is assured, but do something which will finally succeed in waking up this country. I hope it doesn't hurt too badly.

I have nephews and husbands of nieces who are in their mid to late 20's. After 9/11, they were ready to 'join up', for a week or two. Then, they went back to their self-absorbed lives, content to let others do the bleeding and dying. They weren't asked to do anything.

Our 'leaders' didn't ask for any sacrifices or commitments from the citizenry. Instead, they went to work, busying themselves with:
Talking about fixing Social Security and Medicare,
Embargoing steel shipments into the country, Doling out greater largesse to the corporate farming industry,
Passing 'No child left behind' legislation,
Passing tax cuts, etc.

Five years later, we still haven't started drilling for oil in ANWR, or off the shores of this country. Our dependence on foreign oil drives our diplomacy while the Iranian mullahs plan for their bomb, so they can start Armageddon and see the 12th Imam return.

We are being led by sheep, not wolves. We invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, but left the cancers of Syria and Iran alone.

Syria, give me a break! We should have told Assad to close his borders with Iraq, and quit giving terrorists aid and comfort, or the B2's would be visiting Damascus. But no, we don't want to be seen as bullies. Same goes for Tehran.

The Europeans got upset with us when we invaded Iraq, and they lost their 'oil for food' money stream. We acted unilaterally! As a result of their complaints, we gave them the job of convincing Iran to give up their nuclear weapons program. Well, two years later, the Iranians have promised us an answer on August 22nd.

One wonders how they will answer: Will it be a mushroom cloud, or the request for more talks?

Meanwhile, North Korea fired a multistage missile toward the Hawaiian Islands, then destroyed it as soon as they were convinced the guidance had worked.

'We were ready to shoot it down'. Another capital that needs a visit from the B2's.

Really, no one believes us, because we talk and talk, but don't ever get really angry any more, because we've been taught it's not nice.

My grandchildren are inheriting one h*** of a world, and it's our fault. We were too busy doing things that feel good, not the right things.

Gee thanks, ME generation
The lack of unity in the US in the face of what is probably the most obvious threat to come along in this country's history is galling to the reasonable mind.
If the personal privations visited upon the citizens in WWII were to happen now we would probably see a revolution, thanks to the self centered left.
The ME generation has hijacked the moral clarity we used to have to act as a nation. Instead of a unified stirring in the breast of rightious anger at the self stated rise to conquest from the islam-o-jobs, we have the swill of power games and positioning from one half of our government.
Thanks, ME generation.
Thanks for all the countrymen we are going to have to bury because it will probably take the deaths of thousands upon thousands for you to wake up and smell the jihad.
Thanks for the bruising our economy is going to take as we sift through the ashes of some more buildings.
Thanks for the horrors we are going to see on TV as the innocents in other countries pay the first toll on your trip back to your senses.
Thanks for the incredibly painful paradigm shift thats going to happen when generation x, y, and so on has to wake up and find out: "It's really not all about me.. is it?"


Difference between then and now.
The greatest difference between the war then and any war now where the USA is involved, the UN was not in control at that time. America was truly a super power because of it's infinite belief in The Almighty and the desire to live a clean, moral life. We as Americans were blessed and now the mantra has been removed because of the LEFT wing liberals who have become the anything goes generation with NO morals expected of anyone. DO YOUR THING !!!!!
Bless you for your insight, keep these good articles in front of the public. It sure can't hurt anything, even though it just gives the liberals more reason for laughter. We will indeed have the last laugh unless our hearts are breaking at the true loss experienced because of them.

Then and Now
It looks like you hit on a hot topic this time!
As the old Spanish saying goes, "!No hay ciego como el que no quiere ver!" (There is no one so blind as he who does not want to see.) Some people in the United States of America are not only ignoring history, but some are re-writing it. Thank you for the nice article reminding us of how it REALLY was and what "cease fire" means!

The "ME" Generation
Great point and post. The lazy smelly hippies of the 60's who scorned "The Establishment" became the Yuppies of the 80's and reaped the benefits of a conservative economy run by Reagan (who they hated) and are now nearing retirement. They lived their whole lives never having to pot up or shut up and now want their due. These 60's liberals are shallower than the mind of Ted Drunkennedy! They're willing to appease anyone as long as they can continue riding the gravy train. America will be better off when the last of these nimrods takes the eternal dirtnap.

Goshawk
What you have described is accurate and it illuminates why Congress will not fulfill its Constitutional role of declaring war. Without a declaration of War it allows the congressmen to denigrate the President, change their minds, and second guess all Presidential decisions. This "procedure of opposition party rebuke" needs to be removed and a formal Declaration of War be a required precursor to putting our troops in "harms way".

GunnyG, please!
Gunny, that was a cheap shot at the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts. In case you haven't noticed, we are a TARGET of the Left. The Boy Scouts of America exists to grow boys into men, men who are citizens who do their duty to God and Country. If you check, lots of our Medal of Honor winners were Boy Scouts. Lots of the guys on the Wall were Boy Scouts. Lots of the guys at our military academy were Boy Scouts. Lots of our astronout corp were Boy Scouts. As a matter of fact, lots of those Boy Scouts were Eagle Scouts.

A Scout is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.

Does that sound like a liberal Democrat to you? (Of course, using both "liberal" and "Democrat" is redundant.) Those people are post-modernist moral-relativist atheistic sexually-confused self-absorbed baby-killers. They are the vanguard of the culture of death. Their greatest wish is to be nannied by a one-world government UN.

The Girl Scouts, on the other hand, are a group with an unfortunately similar name. They were never that much like the Boy Scouts to begin with and are being taken over by the Dark Side. Given their leadership and the stuff coming out of there, you might want to pick on them next time.

Lazlo
You are a carpenter--"You hit the nail on the head".

SORRY
Sir Michael, no slam on the Boy Scouts was intended. My intent was to point out that the liberals have the mental/political age of a child when it comes to foreign policy. Again, sorry.

Then and Now
During WWII those who believed in the war signed up to fight. As this is written, not one republican/conservative politician or pundit has signed up to fight; no children of same have joined. Conservative schools are overflowing.

Where are the children of the conservative/ monied elite. Those who let their sons and daughters go off to die while the children of the well off stay home and party are fools and suckers.

Claptrap
As evidenced by the 2000 election fiasco, the bulk of those serving in the military are Conservative leaning in their politics. Not surprisingly, despite the propaganda of the likes of Mikhail Moore, most of those serving in this war are lower to middle income Southern white Conservatives. I say Conservative, because even Southern Democrats, like Zell Miller, tend to be considerably more to the right of their Northern counterparts on issues of national security. This notion that all Republicans are rich is utter nonsense. Something like 51 million people voted for President Bush in 2004. There is no way that all of those could be millionaires. This "always Right" blogger cannot substantiate any of his claims. "Not one Conservative..." This is typical Leftist claptrap. The military is full of Conservatives; Many of whom grew up in Conservative homes. One of the columnists here wrote a good piece on the "Chicken Hawk" slur. It's not an argument in itself, but is simply a slur meant to stiffle a debate. I would add another angle to this slur. If it is expected that every patriotic American join the armed forces during a war, then why is it not equally expected that all anti-war subversives join some "human shield" or "diplomatic" mission to these countries our forces are presumably "oppressing?" Of course it's absurd for every Conservative (or Liberal for that matter) who supports our military efforts overseas to join the armed forces. Would we expect elderly Conservatives to do so? Would we expect disabled Americans to do so? Do the armed forces even need more recruits right now? People joined the military in droves during WWII mainly because of the draft, which was necessary because of the scope of the war. The White House has not decided to expand the military aspect of this war, making a draft unnecessary. Do people assume that a military can succeed without millions of civilians back home "makin' the bacon'" so to speak? Conservatives should trust subversive Liberals to support all of those brave souls doing their duty on the front lines? People, this "Chicken Hawk" slur is pure claptrap and betrays the critical shallowness of Liberal understanding of the world around them and the paucity of intellectual substance from which to argue their position sensibly on a matter that should concern us all very greatly as Americans.

WWII
WallysWorld, you have some good points. In spite of your good points, I do believe Dr Sowell is essentially correct. There was the treasonous episode you mention, how New York Times! There was some debate about how to proceed, but foreign policy did really stop at the water's edge those days. From everything I have read, the country was stunned and then motivated to win. The Japanese may have thought that the US would soon negotiate a peace (with the Pacific Fleet destroyed according their plan) but there was never any such notion in this country, from all I have read (and spoken with people who lived through it.)

It is worth noting that we declared war on Japan on Dec 8, 1941 and on Dec 11 Hitler declared war on the US, and in response the US declared war on Germany and Italy.

I personally question the wisdom of the "Europe First" policy. That's how it was done, and FDR did it - willingly - at the urging of Churchill and Stalin. But is that the best way we could have proceeded? I have my doubts. We abandoned our guys in the Pacific on the Phillipines and at other places. We badly undersupplied the Pacific Theatre for YEARS. Why? Operation Torch, the invasion of Africa was not until Nov 42. The invasion of Sicily was not until July 1943, and of course D-Day was June 6, 1944. Yet it was not until the Casablanca conference in Jan 43 that the allocation was changed for the Pacific Theatre from 15% to 30% of war materiel. In the Pacific the Phillipines held out until April/May 1942. The Battle of Coral Sea was in May, Midway in June and the invasion of Guadal Canal was Aug 7th. So why abandon the PI and starve the military who were actually fighting? (No slam against those in the European Theatre, but that is what & when these things happened.)

As for the sacrifices of the people on the homefront, I have seen and heard the claim that it was mostly done (rationing and all that) to involve the people in the war, that it made very little difference to the war effort. (Of course, changing over production from civilian goods to military equipment and stores made a tremendous difference to the war effort and caused shortages. I don't mean that, I mean the hardships brought on by rationing gas and butter and meat and all.) Today it is not necessary and I see no reason to put the country through all that.

I also see no need for a return to the draft. I am very proud of our volunteer forces who after all are the best in the world. I have had a mixed set of information regarding our personel needs. I read that enlistments are up and retension is better than expected. Then I read we are short of people. I don't know what the truth is here.

I do know that Hollywood in WWII and this bunch are entirely different. Where is Brigadier General Jimmy Stewart in THIS generation? Pat Tillman is the only one who comes to mind, and he came from the area of Sports which also supplied many baseball stars to WWII (eg., Bob Feller, Joe Dimagio)

Sometimes I would pay to wear Army Green again ... (Ok, chocolate chip ...)

then and now
I find it interesting how the Left can take a side on a certain issue when their person is in power and then switch sides if a conservative in power takes the same position.
Never have I seen it so blatantly than concerning the War on Terror which Israel's fight against Hezbollah is.
If you take the time and sift quietly through all the haze,smoke,talk and spin, the foundation of the Left begins to make itself known.
They are not for or against Terrorism or Democracy or anything of value. They have a goal, at least their leaders do and that is the Socialist agenda.
They will speak out in favor of Hezbollah if a Conservative speaks out against Hezbollah.
They will talk of raising taxes if a Conservative talks of Lowering them.
They speak against if a conservative speaks in favor of (fill in the blank) It doesn't matter if the opinion is right or wrong. Their goal is Socialism. And while we fight the war on terror (rightfully so) we must not forget that simple fact about the Left.

PSU CON states that the military is full of conservatives. I never said that there weren't conservatives in the military.

Where are the children of the politicians?
Where are the children of all the conservative pundits?
Where are the children of the monied class?

I cannot prove none have joined, but it would be major news if the son or daughter of a well known republican spear carrier placed him or herself in harms way.

Mr. Sowell's point was how together we were during WWII. During that war the President's children joined the military. Our current President's father was shot out of the sky during the Korean conflict. Contrast their behavior with the offspring of todays warmongering Pols.

Sir Mike
Both you and Dr. Sowell are exactly right today. Every time I hear someone start talking about "Why aren't Americans asked to sacrifice?" I want to scream!!! Pre World War 2, our economy and industry was totally consumer oriented and because of our isolationist policies our military was in horrible shape. The ration programs were needed to get and keep badly needed supplies/materials for the war effort. What folks need to realize is that at that time, we were trying to build, train, and equip our Armed Forces on the fly. Now we have a well equipped standing force that is provided what it needs by people that are in the business of supplying the goods the Armed Forces need. Times and circumstances do not demand that we go through everything that the WW2 generation had to; besides which if GWB asked anyone to do anything specific to aid the war effort the left would scream even louder about an Imperial Presidency!

Not quite always Right
Actually, Lieutenant Junior Grade George Herbert Walker Bush was shot down by anti-aircraft fire while flying an Avenger attacking Chichi Jima on Sept 2, 1944 during WWII.

Korea started on June 25, 1950.

How Americans Used to Fight Their Wars
Further to Mr. Sowell's excellent comments, specifically regarding his praise of Wendell Wilkie, FDR's opponent for the Presidency and how Wilkie joined FDR in the fight against Germany & Japan after losing to FDR, not only that but in comparison to the disgraceful performance of the Democrats & the mainstream media (NYT!) in our present war against terror, Wilkie was early let in on the secret U.S./England breaking of the Axis diplomatic codes, which the U.S. and England used to know when to avoid attacks and to be able to make many other correct battle decisions, but instead of using that knowledge in a partisan way to try to defeat Roosevelt in the 1940 presidential election,Wilkie patriotically refused to use that information to hurt Roosevelt during the election and thereby was a true hero. Compare that heroic stand to the NYT's treachery in giving out the secrets of our phone and financial spying against our enemies now and you can see how far the left has sunk in it's hatred of George W. Bush.

Then and Now
Thank you Sir Michael. Don't mind being wrong about the right war. The point remains the same.

re: tanabear and Historical analogies
Sorry, friend. A study of history illuminates wonderfully. The points are first know the history and then to select the proper events and pay attention to the lessons.

Kim Jung Il is closer to Stalin than to Hitler; both starved their own people for political control of the country, both inherited control, both were totalitarians, both fawned over by liberals, and neither are/were trustworthy. On the other hand, Kim has been appeased as was Hitler. We are only hoping that the results are not as catastrophic. Also, that we don't continue with appeasement as a policy. There were a number of times that Hitler could have been stopped cheaply; the Chamberlain "peace in our time" is simply the most famous appeasement. Hitler was allowed to run until WWII ended with millions dead. We want to try to avoid that.

Kim is also an object lesson for the future from back in Truman's day. Since Truman would not win the war in Korea, we are dealing with Kim today, only now he might have nukes as well. Note that this is a lesson about not trusting Democrats as Commander in Chief, as well.

Vietnam is also several object lessons for us: get the job done, don't abandon an ally, don't trust Democrats for National Security. Don't trust the Main Stream Media to report a war also applies. (How Tet, an overwhelming victory, could be treated as a defeat is beyond my comphrension. The have no shame and no honor.)

Basic human nature has not changed. History is available for us to learn from, if we only will.

WII and since
During WWII everyone at home knew there was a war on every single day because there was food rationing which involved having a ration book with stamps for meat, butter, and other essentials. There was gas rationing and no new cars were built. All vital materials were for the war effort and many people worked in defense plants. There were air raid practices with blackouts and air raid wardens. Every other window had a flag with a blue or gold star in it. Families gathered around the radio to listen to the war news every night and the headlines in the daily papers were all about the war. Also we knew who the enemy was and they were depicted in unflattering ways in posters and in the media. In todays wars most people don't know there is a war on and don't have to make sacrifices unless they are directly involved in the fighting or are related to someone who is. Otherwise business goes on as usual and many peopel just don't bother watching the news or being informed about the war. The enemey is not our enemy but our friend whom we are trying to liberate from Communism or from Dictators or terrorists. The wars are not declared and there is very little homefront activity. Victory in WWII was unconditional surrender but victory today is never defined and rarely achieved. To win a war, the enemy must be clearly defined, and he must be utterly and totally defeated, and what victory is must be clearly spelled out not changed every other day, and the path to that victory must be clearcut and steadfastly adhered to.

WWII and war since
During WWII everyone at home knew there was a war on every single day because there was food rationing which involved having a ration book with stamps for meat, butter, and other essentials. There was gas rationing and no new cars were built. All vital materials were for the war effort and many people worked in defense plants. There were air raid practices with blackouts and air raid wardens. Every other window had a flag with a blue or gold star in it. Families gathered around the radio to listen to the war news every night and the headlines in the daily papers were all about the war. Also we knew who the enemy was and they were depicted in unflattering ways in posters and in the media. In todays wars most people don't know there is a war on and don't have to make sacrifices unless they are directly involved in the fighting or are related to someone who is. Otherwise business goes on as usual and many peopel just don't bother watching the news or being informed about the war. The enemey is not our enemy but our friend whom we are trying to liberate from Communism or from Dictators or terrorists. The wars are not declared and there is very little homefront activity. Victory in WWII was unconditional surrender but victory today is never defined and rarely achieved. To win a war, the enemy must be clearly defined, and he must be utterly and totally defeated, and what victory is must be clearly spelled out not changed every other day, and the path to that victory must be clearcut and steadfastly adhered to.

PSU-con;
You said, "...this "Chicken Hawk" slur is pure claptrap and betrays the critical shallowness of Liberal understanding of the world around them and the paucity of intellectual substance from which to argue their position sensibly on a matter that should concern us all very greatly as Americans."

But you must understand, Sir, it is NUANCED claptrap, and NUANCED shallowness, you see. Liberal thinking may look a lot like what comes out of the back end of a horse, but you have to admit there's a lot of healthy fiber in there...

movwater and the Atomic Bomb
Right you are.

Of course, it is always useful to remember that the thing McCarthy was wrong about was the number of communists in the Federal Government, particuarly the State Department and the Truman Administration: his numbers were quite LOW.

Hey, hey, ho ho, the UN's got to go!

Don't Know Much About History
Ah yes, yet another good read from our man Dr. Sowell, I'm glad he's on our side.

Good reply from Sir Michael to the assertion that we can learn nothing from history. Man’s basic nature does not change, despite liberal wishes to the contrary. How does that old saying go? “Those who refuse to learn the lessons of history will be condemned to repeat them” (or something like that). Obviously history is important, or else the left would not invest so much time in trying to re-write it (or advocate ignoring it when it provides evidence that refutes their indefensible dogma). I’m told that in the Soviet Union there was a common saying to the effect that, under communism, it is the FUTURE that is always known and the PAST that is constantly changing.

As Usial, Dr. Sowell is right on the $
There is no doubt, given the spoiled, self-centered, self absorbed attitudes of North Americans today, that this generation would have decidedly lost WWII. They would be too absorbed in "don't ask, don't tell" to even hoist a rifle! What an incredible pack of fools! I equate the Bataan Death March(bet you lefties have trouble with that one!) to the constant barrage of terrorist attacks upon Israel, which targets unarmed innocents living in Israel. Israel is not interested in executing all Arabs, but the Islamo-Nazis are definitely interested in eradicating the Jewish People, as was Hitler. Leftists, beware the mongrel dog you lay down with, you may wake up with Fleas!


Then and Now
Another great article. I think a big difference between then and now must include the following:

1. A bigger percentage of the population was non-urban or rural. Perhaps I'm imaging this, but urbanites who can walk around the block for a quart of milk or dinner or toothpaste tend to be a little more disconnected from reality and nature. They've never witnessed an animal slaughtered or have never been dependent on growing things - the planning, preparation, nurturing, maintaining and finally the harvesting. Again, when they want something - they walk 60 feet to receive instant gratification. That is not real, not how the real world works. I can go on and on, here, but I hope you get the point;

2. Perhaps the 20-something folks in 1941 were just tougher with more common sense, having endured the Depression and still realizing that a depressed America was 1000 times better than a Nazi Germany with a good economy. They believed in the need to preserve and protect America, many of them as much as Lincoln did. I also suspect that today's affluence has made more Americans more self-centered, much like the 10,000 some "royals" in Kuwait who let us do the fighting in 1991;

3. Another variable was that 16 million Americans were involved in WWII, with 400,000 paying the ultimate price. I'm guessing that no towns and very few neighborhoods were spared, everyone knew someone killed or hurt. Therefore today's B.S. protestors and the current treason-like behavior at the NYT would not have occurred. With so much of the population involved, having lost and yet still believing in the cause - the protestors and their ilk would have received some rough treatment; and

4. Also, I think more Americans understood the value of being American in 1941 - the rule of law, separation of powers, freedom & liberty and the opportunity. Today, many view (less after 9-11) this as just a free economic zone, that is, they're here for job and have not bothered to learn and appreciate the system and culture - this ranges from the Mexican illegal immigrate to the Chinese-American with a PhD. who told me half-jokingly "Hey, looks like we got one of your planes" right after one of our spy planes was forced to land in China in early 2001. They think we got lucky here with our economy and they that they were unlucky, they completely overlook the cause being that our foundation is rooted in the constitution that provides for the above-mentioned American characteristics.

Only the name has changed
Communism has not been defeated. Nor is it dead. The main goals of communism are alive and well in today's 'liberals'. They use the same tactics and distortions and lies as they did when they were more identifiable as enemies of Democracy and Freedom.
Dialectic materialism. A rose is a rose is a rose. They want to tear apart our Republic and install a one-world government. From each according to his ability to each according to his need. That is what they are saying when they say raise taxes and extend welfare or tuition or medicare aid beyond reality. This is the Clintons and the Kerrys and every person who mentions 'World opinion' or going to the UN when talking about America's global problems. Hopefully the 'Me-First' baby boomer generation is just a bump in the road and not a mutation.
We have all fallen under the spell of the something-for-nothing crowd from time to time.

Atom Bombs
In the recent comparisons of the present situation to WWII, I object the conservative support of bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The first condemnation for the atomic weapons that I saw (I was a schoolboy during the war) was from Richard Weaver, the conservative author of "Ideas Have Consequences," who did so much to invigorate conservatism after WWII. In addition, the fact is that the Emperor was just as frightened by Iwo Jima's fight to the last man as we were. He undertook surrender negotiations, and we could have had surrender in May 1945 with the condition that the Emperor not be tried as a war criminal. Yet we needed the drama of the atom bomb to obtain the unconditional surrender we demanded (the conventional killing of the civilians in the fire bombing of Tokyo didn't do the job). But we did not prosecute the Emperor as a war criminal. So we could have had the same result 3 months earlier,without the bombing.
Wallysworld is correct in noting that FDR was cunning enough to make the Soviets our allies - we could have fought the Germans and the Japanese without supporting the Communists, but FDR knew how to neutralize the left wing in the US.
The bombing of civilians is terrorism (the North Vietnamese placed civilians all around their military targets - in such a case we must continue the attack as is the case now with clear conscience, but with heavy heart: the moral judgement is on the enemy in this case.) Here is the duplicity of the Left: violence and terrorism are only condemned when practiced against their allies, i.e. any group or regime with left wing ideology. They are not interested in preserving our Western Heritage werein there has been a distinction between civilians and combatants since the Middle Ages.

Admiral Yamamoto
A minor point but Yamamoto never made the statement attributed to him at the end of the movie Tora, Tora, Tora, although he did make statements that expressed similar thoughts.

A few years ago the History Channel had a program comparing the "reel" world with the "real" world and the director said he added that closing comment to make the point that the movie told only the beginning of the story and that defeat in one part of the war did not tell the whole story.

Clyde9

Cease Fire
The biggest ceasefire was the Nov 11,1918. General Pershing wanted to continue to Berlin so the Germans would have no doubt that they were defeated. He thought the casualties would be worth it. He was right.

Terrorism
I think this war is an outright gift to the world. Peace never won any war and I'm sure that Israel can verify that statement. To me, this is a world-wide religious war that has been challenged by Israel. They will need help to face those Islamic radicals soon and I am not looking for the United States to run around brokering PEACE.

I am not condeming the religion of Islam but I think the radical bunch of terrorists are an unknown force that will require a group of freedom loving nations to defeat it- destroy it.

I am 5 year veteran of WWII. I was part of the task force that was to spearhead the attack on the island of Kyushu when President Truman ordered the knock out and the rest is history.
President Truman was not brokering a cease-fire.

Joe D
I'm a little shaky on the dates, but Pershing might have been overruled by the Spanish flu. With the epidemic beginning to rage through the troops, their ability to continue fighting was evaporating - so finish the war on any terms at all.

"Always Right" - Hardly!
Fletch did a great job of providing specific examples of national level politicians' sons fighting in Iraq to expose "always right's" leftist lie. The one thing that he failed to mention is that members of Congress are statistically MORE likely than the general population to have children in the military, despite a large number of them being too old to have children of military age.

Left wingers continue to believe that if they repeat a lie often enough, it will become fact...just look at their never-ending mantras of "Bush Lied" and "tax cuts for the rich"

Unity of the US in war
I remember when gas and sugar were rationed. I remember when dried apricots came in a wooden box. I remember when my dad came out of the jungles of New Guinea minus hair and teeth, and weighed just 120 lbs. He could hang his hat on his hip bone. That was war! We learned patriotism at school and home. Along came Pres. Johnson, a demon disquised. Fanatical liberalism came into being; I quickly dumped the Dem. party for conservatism. As I watched the planes take down the towers, I was filled with extreme anger that they would dare such a thing. "Rejoin the Navy or join the army," I thought, but they sure as hell don't want a 63 yr. old in the service. "Oh well," came my second thought, "There will be thousands and thousands of young men joining up." My third thought was, "We can handle terrorism, but my real worry is all those stupid liberal horses' rear-ends in government." Quite a thought, there.

How Is Nothing Worth Fighting For?
A message for the ages for the Left:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." ~ John Stuart Mill


Israel Hezbollah
Tom Sowell is both right and wrong. He's right about the need for a country to defend itself outright, not by "proportionate response." Ultimately, though, he wrong, because Israel is not a true country. It was with pure arrogance that the United Kingdom and the United States established Israel without any regard for the opinions of Israel's neighboring countries. Over the ensuing decades, there have been wars and 10's of thousands of deaths. More recently, the birthrate of North America, Europe (including Russia) and Israel have fallen to the point those cultures cannot sustain themselves. Muslim and Latino birthrates have soared because those societies maintain a strong pro-family culture. Israel is now surrounded by populous, wealthy countries with huge oil revenues. Israel's remaining lifetime is not long. Israel's demise will be the end of a BIG MISTAKE.
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