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Thursday, April 30, 2009
Terry Jeffrey :: Townhall.com Columnist
Notre Dame's Greatest Comeback
by Terry Jeffrey
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Countless American Catholic boys have on some fall Saturday in their young lives been thrilled to witness -- in person, on radio or on TV -- a Notre Dame comeback on the football field.

Now, a rising generation of American Catholics may witness a Notre Dame comeback of a higher order.

This comeback is not about touchdowns and field goals. It is about faith and country.

Our nation is now heading deeper into a cultural war that has already divided our society for decades. Whether Notre Dame's current leadership likes it or not, the school is inextricably involved in this war, which is a conflict over fundamental questions of morality on which the Catholic Church takes an inalterable stand.

There is only one question: Whose side is Notre Dame on? Does she stand with her church on the side of right? Or does she stand with those who would defend the indefensible?

Shall it forevermore be legal in America to kill an unborn child? Shall the government grant cohabitating homosexuals the same legal rights as married couples, including the right to adopt children?

The Catholic position is clear: Abortion and same-sex unions are wrong and must never be legalized.

President Barack Obama's position is equally clear: Abortion should be legal, and homosexual unions should have the same legal status as marriage.

In 2004, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops published a document -- "Catholics in Political Life" -- clearly stating the bishops'

understanding of how Catholic institutions such as Notre Dame should deal with politicians who defy fundamental moral principles.

"The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles," said the bishops. "They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions."

Nonetheless, Notre Dame announced on March 20 that Obama would not only give the school's May 17 commencement address, but that he also would receive an honorary doctorate in law.

This threatened to send a scandalous message to every young Catholic in America: The church does not take seriously its own views on the right to life and the sanctity of marriage.

A few years ago, Notre Dame's decision might not have elicited a sustained reaction from American Catholics. Yet, now it seems to have awakened a sleeping giant.

It started with Bishop John D'Arcy of Fort Wayne-South Bend, in whose diocese Notre Dame is located, announcing he would boycott the school's graduation, noting that a bishop "teaches not only by his words -- but by his actions."

Then Cardinal Francis George, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said, "Whatever else is clear, it is clear that Notre Dame didn't understand what it means to be Catholic when they issued this invitation."

Then Bishop Thomas Olmsted of Phoenix sent a letter to the Rev. John Jenkins, Notre Dame's president, stating that Notre Dame's invitation to Obama was "a public act of disobedience to the bishops of the United States."

By the end of April, more than 40 Catholic bishops had spoken up against Notre Dame honoring Obama.

Lay Catholics were being heard, too. The Cardinal Newman Society, an organization dedicated to "renewing and strengthening Catholic identity at America's 224 Catholic colleges and universities," organized a petition campaign asking Jenkins to rescind the invitation to Obama. More than 340,000 people have signed that petition.

On Monday, Harvard Law Professor Mary Ann Glendon announced that she would not accept Notre Dame's Laetare Award, which she was scheduled to receive at the same ceremony where Obama would receive his honorary law degree. In a letter to Jenkins, Glendon said she was "at a loss to understand why a Catholic university should disrespect" the bishops' request that those who defy fundamental moral principles not be honored by Catholic institutions.

Notre Dame expects Obama to wear its traditional academic robe when he receives his honorary doctorate. As reported by Edwin Mora of CNSNews.com, this robe bears Notre Dame's coat of arms -- with the words "Vita, Dulcedo, Spes" -- inscribed on its chest. These words, which mean "our life, our sweetness and our hope," come from a traditional prayer to the Virgin Mary.

"The combination of these phrases with the symbol for the university indicates the dedication of all Notre Dame's activities, intellectual, spiritual, athletic and so on, to Our Lady," explained an article in the February 1931 issue of the Notre Dame alumni magazine.

How can granting an honorary law degree to a pro-abortion politician be dedicated to Our Lady? It cannot be.

But the cause of taking Notre Dame back, of remaking it into the institution it once was -- where there was not only a Fighting Irish football team but a fighting Catholic tradition -- most certainly can be.

That would be Notre Dame's greatest comeback of all time.

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About The Author

Terence P. Jeffrey is the editor-in-chief of CNSNews

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©Creators Syndicate
Who's this 'We', kemosabe?
7Sticks has a pretty funny definition of religious freedom. You're free to worship as you wish, as long as 7Sticks approves. You say you are a secular Jew, would you say that someone could go into a synagogue, erect a golden calf, start sacrificing to it, and the Rabbi and the rest of the temple association couldn't object, couldn't even say that that wasn't Judaism? No one is forced to be a Catholic and you can leave anytime you want but you have to meet certain minimum standards.

Who's this 'We', kemosabe?
7Sticks has a pretty funny definition of religious freedom. You're free to worship as you wish, as long as 7Sticks approves. You say you are a secular Jew, would you say that someone could go into a synagogue, erect a golden calf, start sacrificing to it, and the Rabbi and the rest of the temple association couldn't object, couldn't even say that that wasn't Judaism? No one is forced to be a Catholic and you can leave anytime you want but you have to meet certain minimum standards.

7Sticks: How many legs
does a dog have if you call its tail a leg? Still four. Someone is free to call themselves Roman Catholic all they want and no one will stop them. Doesn't make them one though. I think you might be happier in a Unitarian church. As I understand it, you don't have to listen to bunch of gasbags, or even just one, there.

Dangerous Hate Crime Legislation passed.
Dangerous Hate Crime Legislation passed.
Dangerous Hate Crime Legislation passed.
Hate Crimes legislation has just passed in the House of Reps.

Hate Crimes legislation will be twisted and misinterpreted to mean anything.

The purpose of hate crimes legislation is to take away our freedoms. INcluding freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

Hate Crimes legislation is intended to silence the pulpits around the country.

Do not let the Senate pass this legislation.

OBAMA has promised to sign it

7 Sticks
You are on planet earth.

Troll Alert
It appears the trolls are alive and well and seem to be up early in the morning competing for the gold star they must get for being first to post their moronic drivel.

Who cares what a self-described secular jew thinks about the position of the Catholic church. If you don't like it, don't listen. No one is trying to foist their beliefs on you, keep walking until you find a set of beliefs with which you are personally comfortable.

The larger issue here is context. As much as Father Jenkins is misguided in his invitation to the Abortionist-In-Chief, this did not occur in a vacuum. Notre Dame, as a bastion of Catholic thought, lost its way a long time ago. Attempting to show the requisite liberalism that is so de riguer they have infested the institution with shows, plays, policies, classes and other items with philosophies totally out of sync with church teachings. The invitation to the Commander-In-Chief Baby Killer is merely the most current capstone.

"Eternal Damnation" is non-negiotable!
that's the beauty of it all!

Notre Dame either
represents Catholic values, or it does not. I'm not Catholic, but i respect and approve the contributions they have made to the education of Americans. Parochial schools in Washington DC are attended mostly by Protestants because they do a far superior job to the Public schools. My grand daughter attends a Catholic school in Norfolk Va. Tuition is about $2500/yr. The level of scholarship, discipline, and protection of the students from bullying and criminal behavior is far superior to the public schools. My grand daughter loves it.

It is difficult for me to understand these yahoos who seem to think they must attack religious people, on the grounds they are preventing a theocracy. We have survived 300 years of religious people amongst our population, with no sign of them making me go to church yet. On the other hand, free expression of religious beliefs are often attacked as offensive. Get a life, folks. A Statue of a man with an elephant head or a closed for Yom Kippur sign do not offend me, and i distrust the mindset which does find these things offensive.

Obama's has refused
to sign a bill authorizing medical help to babies which survive an attempted abortion. How anyone can go along with letting a live new born baby die of deliberate neglect? How can anyone trust a man who will support this? And then a so-called CATHOLIC University gives this man an honorary doctorate? This does not sound like the Catholics i used to know.

As a Traditional Catholic....
I tired of so-called Catholic institutuions which capitualte to culture relativism and bestow honors on those who are in direct opposition to Church teachings.

I am pleased to finally see Prelates and laity alike band together to stand for truth, and what is right.
Sadly, many young Catholics are confused by the seemingly endless ambiguity and double speak that often eminates from the heirarchy regarding serious cultural issues.

A "Catholic" institution of higher learning is not exempt from following the immutable and timeless teaching of the Church handed down from Christ to the Apostles. It is charged with their reenforcemnt in order to asure properly formed Catholic consciences. That however is not the case, all to often.

At a recent event where President Obama spoke at Georgetown University, his staff asked that all religious symbols including a large Crucifix be covered over so as not to be seen in the background. The College administrators, instead of politely refusing, did as asked.

I have to wonder whether President Obama would require the same were he speaking at a Muslim institution. I doubt it. I also doubt that the Muslims would have obliged him.

'Reverand' Jenkins?
I suspect that, 'JENKINS', may be MORE than he appears. Perhaps his CLOSET should be looked in to. Gay Marraige is verrrry tempting, to some people. OBVIOUSLY, the man is NOT a Christian. If EVERY CHTISTIAN, turned their backs, on the supporters of INFANTICIDE, it would end. If they were SHUNNED, this practice, ITSELF, would be terminated. To honor someone, who doesn't even support giving MEDICAL ATTENTION, to a BABY, that SOMEHOW, has survived the Abortionists' KNIFE, is beyond belief. This guy-JENKINS-cries out for an investigation. Mark my words.

Mac
You make great points especially at the end. What do you suppose the chances are that a muslim university (Sorry about the oxymoron) would invite a jew or christian to speak at any event it had let alone a commencement? Notre Dame is pathetic.

Are These Universities Catholic?
I thought these institutions, like all Catholic or other parochial schools, were first charged with perpetuating their faith and somewhere down the line of priorities (if at all) providing educational opportunities to non-catholics or forums for those not a member of the faith. Take a trip to BYU and see whether or not a non-Mormon is treated the same way as a Mormon. I think what you're seeing in the ND story is the result of years of admitting non-catholics to a catholic institution thereby rendering its philosophy and teachings indistinguishable from any other university.


Not one human being,
not even the arrogant poser aka the POTUS, is more important than honoring the Creator of the Universe. Until Notre Dame gets this right, nothing else they have to say matters.

I am not Catholic
However, I am surprised and disappointed that this school is letting Obama speak. There are going to be protesters at the commencement, I just hope they remain peaceful. If just one person gets out of hand, the MSM will eagerly focus on that individual to confirm their stereotypes about "crazy" prolifers.

Father Jenkins
I would be very surprised if ND retracted their invitation, but who knows, the Catholic Community, including the Bishops have come out and taken a stand. I wouldn't want to be in Fr. Jenkins shoes right now. I believe he will be removed because of this, last night on EWTN an Ill.Bishop put Fr. Jenkins in the same catagory as the Sex scandal priests. Fr. Jenkins has flunted his agenda in the face of the church after being told by the bishops not to do it. What he has done with Obama is not setting up a dialouge, he has stuffed it in the face of the church and said "What are you going to do about it?" I think he will find out.

UNPRINCIPLE NOTRE DAME
Like all real leftists, Father Jenkins hides behind a conservative cowl.

Why is this man still on the job?

Because Notre Dame has no real principles apparently.


STAND UP AND FIRE THIS MAN AND KICK OBAMA OUT OF THE HALL.

ROWDY BOOTS

I'm Not A Catholic
. . . but I count on the Catholic church to maintain its faith witness. I was very disappointed in the Notre Dame invitation, but gratified at the response of the forty bishops and millions of Catholics who objected to this insult to not only the Catholic, but the whole Christian faith.

P - I - M - P
Fr. Jenkins is the moral equivalent of a (see title) - selling the integrity of the institution in his trust, and allowing it to be used as cover for the evil intent of the President, for a few minutes of press notoriety.

Rebuke is not sufficient - fire him, and cancel the invitation immediately.

odd
The churches teaching on the death penalty is as clear as its teaching on abortion and yet Jeffrey leaves it off the list of issues on which Notre Dame should take a stand. Probably just an oversight on his part?

Just kidding, obviously he is a hypocrite who puts his political affiliation above his religions one. Though wouldn't it have been nice if it was just an oversite and he really considered his religion to be more important than his politics.

Notre Shame
The institution must rescind its offer to BO and Father Jenkins should be removed as president. Outrageous to invite this abortionist to any university. He is a fraud. Where is the birth certificate?

Catholics and Democrats
The fact that Catholics voted for Obama in droves suggests that, to a majority of them, it is more important to be a liberal Democrat than a Catholic. The liberal promise of "Big Government will take care of you" brings out a greediness that trumps religion. The "Gimmee" generation(s)will sell their birthrights (souls) for free potage. It is time for Catholic Clergy and Lay leaders to stand up and be counted and to remind the church members of their doctrine and standards. The political donations of Catholic business titans should reflect their faith's standards and not pony to whoever will grant favors for them or their industries. Can Ctholics unite for the right or has their faith become irrelevant? The first big demonstration of Catholics standing up should be the immediate firing of Jenkins and denying Obamama a catholic (worldwide) Catholic (religion) pulpit. Wonder what the Pope thinks of Jenkins flaunting abortion and gays in the very face of the famous "Touchdown Christ", arms up streched, overlooking the Fighting Irish football field? Catholics, stand up for your beliefs or ask to have your names stricken from the rolls of the Church.
BUZZ in IL

Taking a Stand
The Catholic Church and all of it's institutions need to take a stand on their values and beliefs. This position can be communicated in an effective manner without being "in your face". Failure to take a stand indicates a lack of faith in your beliefs and a lack of integrity with the church's values.

Blessing in diguise

Now that the fat's in the fire; we can all get on our knees and pray:

Pray the moment comes; if this travesty is permitted to take place --even as the protests are made public--

PRAY for grace from heaven, that the entire graduating class of Notre Dame greets Barack Obama with a jeering riot of catcalls and rotten tomatoes, endless hoots and a Fighting Irish storming of the podium --Notre Dame is the venue par excellence in America where this demonstration should burst out.

Let's see then, if the pissant media puts all of it back on page 88 of the Wa Post, and Obama returns to DC a proud man. It might prove a great rush of fresh air for this country.

Reply # 24 Date: Apr 30, 2009 - 2:04 PM

Dream on.

The real problem
“The Catholic position is clear: Abortion and same-sex unions are wrong and must never be legalized.”

The real problem is that people of faith believe they should manipulate the law to respect their faith, but usually only on issues of faith that don’t affect them. That’s why heterosexual Christians are so vocal about same-sex marriage, but silent about adultery and divorce. While they know they’ll never want to marry someone of the same sex, they want to keep their options open to divorce (if they haven’t done so already) and commit adultery (if they haven’t done so already). I suspect quite a few vocal critics of abortion have had abortions themselves because “well, my situation is different.”

I wonder if God sees through this faux conviction of faith? I’m willing to wager that He doesn't. Let’s see people of faith put their convictions to the test and lobby for outlawing divorce and adultery, with severe punishments if the laws are broken.

Reply # 26 Date: Apr 30, 2009 - 2:37 PM

Spot on.

What Else Did He Leave Off The List Lon
"The churches teaching on the death penalty is as clear as its teaching on abortion and yet Jeffrey leaves it off the list of issues on which Notre Dame should take a stand." Canon law runs several thousand pages at least. Wouldn't including everything made the article a little long?

For Melissa in PA and Robert in AZ
I can remember a 1995 visit to Calgary (the city where I was largely raised), seeing an article that Calgary's CATHOLIC School Board had decided to add option of "non-religious education" (my first reaction on that, "isn't that ALREADY available through Calgary PUBLIC school board?") as well as 1987 Parliamentary (about 45% of Canadians, and the MP's representing them, are Catholic) vote on abortion laws (where the decision reached was to remove all-and-any)--and find it stunning that this pattern is being repeated in the US.

Jeffrey, Your Conduct Is Despicable
The reason that Obama should not speak at Notre Dame is his position on abortion, not gay 'marriage'. After all, he says he is against gay marriage, too. And of course I believe him. Your snide accusations of sin against all who disagree with your views are despicable on two counts; because they are mere groundless character assassination against innocent people, and because they demonstrate just how small a person you are, who needs to belittle the beliefs of others.
At least a dozen times I have pointed out that nobody wants to make homosexual conduct illegal, any more than they want to make adultery or divorce illegal. Your response is to say I never answered your question. You are dishonest, Jeffrey.

The people can be heard
If the university will not rescind the invitation to Obama, the graduates and their families should not attend the ceremony. What better way to make your point, than to refuse to acknowledge or honor the presence of the man? Yes, it's graduation, but it's only a moment in a lifetime. Stand up, prove that you have the courage of your convictions, and stay away from the ceremony. Otherwise, you're just talking, and the Zero knows it. BTW - so does GOD.

Tears of 'Our Lady'
That's what happened when Pope John XXIII opened up the windows
in Vatican 2. Like I always said, when you open the windows anything can get in. I know he can't be faulted, but the 'cafeteria catholics' couldn't wait to rip apart the church. However, they have no idea that Jesus promised that the 'gates of hell shall not prevail
against it.'
Their is an old legend of Napolean, who asked a catholic primate
how for centuries the church could not be destroyed, he replied
that he didn't know because they have been trying to destroy it
themselves. Let all those destroyers out there, You Will Never
Destroy It.
So when the great emancipator is on that stage getting his acclamations, Our Lady wil be softly weeping, like she did at Fatima;
knowing that this individual is the most hideous creature along side
King Herod. Imagine this man advocates that a baby born in a botched abortion, voted for the act of depriving food and sustenance to that baby. At least, Herod killed them with a sword.
I have been spreading the notion that this man's actions are succeeding because God is permitting it to happen. God has been offended too long and there is only way to get our attention.
By the way, Janet Napolitano, I am a rightwing extremist. God Bless
America!

SAME ANSWER
Why is the GOP dying...compromising their values.
Why is the Catholic Church dying...same answer.









Bottom Line
This is my view of the beliefs of a traditional Roman Catholic.
The Catholic Church is not a democracy. Being perceived as wise, or caring, or even tolerant by the secular or liberal intelligencia is not important to the Church. Garnering good press is not important to the Church. Demonstrating "diversity" by providing a forum and recognition for folks who espouse views in conflict with Church Doctrine is not important to the Church.
Spreading the Word of God is important to the Church. Simply put. Father Jenkins has failed in his duties to his Church and his flock. He should resign or be removed.
The Doctrine of the Catholic Church is not subject to a plebiscite. It is not malleable based upon the whim of secular liberals. It is certainly not a set of “guidelines” to be shaped by personal interpretation. I, and all "Catholics" believe it to be the Word of God.

Bring In The Shrouds!!!
Notre Dame must surely be planning on covering up all of its religious icons, statues and periphernalia when the Great Pretender arrives. He has decreed it!!

All crosses and crucifixes must be tucked under robes and clothing. The possibility of Obama suffering burns is a risk he's not willing to take.

Obama has advised that all kneeling benches be freshly oiled so that all participants can assume the supplicants position as they pray to him.

The required dress for the day will be appropriate socialist khaki coveralls free of slogans and in a color-coordinated scheme so as not to clash with His HOLY Muslimness' after-commencement attire.

He has also requested a wash basin for the audience to enjoy the sight of his hand-washing ablutions after the address. For as he says: When in a quasi-religious institution, you can't be too careful.

Bus loads of ACORN-Obama worshippers will be brought to Notre Dame, seated throughout the area and will be receiving a special honorary award from Obama. Why waste a fiasco?

Robert of AZ
And I understand your modus operandi: keep repeating falsehoods enough so that people think they’re true. And so long as I visit this filthy website to bring truth, I will continue to point out the hypocrisy of people of faith.

While nobody wants to make homosexuality illegal, the author contends that Catholics, at least, must make same-sex marriage and abortion illegal. Please see the quote I displayed. Get help from a friend or colleague if there are words you don’t recognize or understand. Clearly, the author believes that manipulating the law, which must be adhered to by all persons, regardless of their faith, or lack thereof, is ok, even for religious purposes. That is patently unconstitutional and un-American. We do not make our fellow citizens obey our own religious strictures against their will. We are not Saudi Arabia or Iran, where the law reflects religious teaching.

I noted that Christians appear less interested in making sins illegal that might have broader appeal than, say, same-sex marriage. I cited divorce and adultery, two sins that many Christians happily engage in. I am happy to read any explanations for why Christians make no efforts to make some these horrible, family-damaging sins illegal, yet have worked to make, or keep in place, laws to make same-sex marriage illegal. I anxiously await, from you or anyone, an explanation for why same-sex marriage must be illegal, not just frowned on, but divorce and adultery can be legal, but frowned on.

My hypothesis is that Christians have targeted same-sex marriage because it doesn’t affect them (mostly) and also makes them feel better about their own sins. But I don’t think God and Jesus Christ are going to pat you on the back for railing against something that you don’t want to do anyway. That lacks the essential element of sacrifice necessary for “credit” for good behavior.

Rev. John Jenkins
Resign now you should be excommunicated.

ANOTHER
Catholic in name only

What about Bush?
Catholics say they are against killing, including capital punishment. Yet I can’t find anything on the Internet, no story, where Catholics objected to George Bush speaking at commencement in May of 2001, and receiving an honorary doctorate. Yet Bush presided over 152 executions, more than any other state in the country, during his time as governor. And there’s evidence to suggest he didn’t much care. Obama is not directly responsible for the loss of one human life. George Bush could have saved 152 but didn’t. Where was the outrage?

“[In June of 2000,] the Chicago Tribune published a compelling report on an investigation of all 131 [at the time] death cases in Governor [and former president George] Bush's time. It made chilling reading.

In one-third of those cases, the report showed, the lawyer who represented the death penalty defendant at trial or on appeal had been or was later disbarred or otherwise sanctioned. In 40 cases the lawyers presented no evidence at all or only one witness at the sentencing phase of the trial.

In 29 cases, the prosecution used testimony from a psychiatrist who -- based on a hypothetical question about the defendant's past -- predicted he would commit future violence. Most of those psychiatrists testified without having examined the defendant: a practice condemned professionally as unethical.

Other witnesses included one who was temporarily released from a psychiatric ward to testify, a pathologist who had admitted faking autopsies and a judge who had been reprimanded for lying about his credentials.

Asked about the Tribune study, Governor Bush said, "We've adequately answered innocence or guilt" in every case. The defendants, he said, "had full access to a fair trial."

There are two ways of understanding that comment. Either Governor Bush was contemptuous of the facts or, on a matter of life and death, he did not care.”

http://www.commondreams.org

Jeffrey Ignorant of Texas Law
The Governor of Texas cannot grant pardons or exemption from capital punishment under Texas law. This makes your entire post pointless.

Must read book for Catholics
“George W. Bush during his six years as governor of Texas presided over 152 executions, more than any other governor in the recent history of the United States. Bush has said: "I take every death penalty case seriously and review each case carefully.... Each case is major because each case is life or death." In his autobiography, A Charge to Keep (1999), he wrote, "For every death penalty case, [legal counsel] brief[s] me thoroughly, reviews the arguments made by the prosecution and the defense, raises any doubts or problems or questions." Bush called this a "fail-safe" method for ensuring "due process" and certainty of guilt.

He might have succeeded in bequeathing to history this image of himself as a scrupulously fair-minded governor if the journalist Alan Berlow had not used the Public Information Act to gain access to fifty-seven confidential death penalty memos that Bush's legal counsel, Alberto R. Gonzales, whom President Bush has recently nominated to be attorney general of the United States, presented to him, usually on the very day of execution.[1] The reports Gonzales presented could not be more cursory. Take, for example, the case of Terry Washington, a mentally retarded man of thirty-three with the communication skills of a seven-year-old. Washington's plea for clemency came before Governor Bush on the morning of May 6, 1997. After a thirty-minute briefing by Gonzales, Bush checked "Deny"—just as he had denied twenty-nine other pleas for clemency in his first twenty-eight months as governor.”

- Sister Helen Prejean, in the New York Review of Books, January, 2005. This excerpt is from her book, The Death of Innocents.

Sister Helen Prejean is a member of the Sisters of St. Joseph of Medaille and lives in Louisiana. She is the author of Dead Man Walking and The Death of Innocents: An Eyewitness Account of Wrongful Executions.

What is a Mind For, After All?
So, how far do you really want this to go?

1. No politician may speak at a Catholic institution unless he has declared himself to be anti-abortion on terms commensurate with those of the Catholic Church?

2. No professor teaches or does research at a Catholic university unless (ditto, see Item 1)?

3. No Catholic agency employs a physician, nurse, social worker, administrator, CPA, or janitor unless he (ditto, see Item 1)?

4. No Catholic university or college shall have books in its library containing any thought that is not commensurate with teachings of the Catholic Church?

5. No practicing Catholic may vote for any politician who has not declared himself to be anti-abortion?

6. No Catholic may read a book, magazine, or newspaper, or see a movie or play, that contains material counter to the teachings of the Catholic Church?

I have a graduate degree from a Catholic university, which later employed me. A crucifix hung on the wall of every classroom. I NEVER encountered the bigotry and closed-mindedness now recommended to Notre Dame.

jeffrey a swine from IL


There he is; trashing the pearls.

Jeffrey still squawking the same tired and boring routine:

"I anxiously await, from you or anyone, an explanation for why same-sex marriage must be illegal, not just frowned on, but divorce and adultery can be legal, but frowned on."

Simple answer:

It's still a free country. Those sinners who legally offend God must confess their sin or be damned. That easily covers legal sins like divorce and adultery. Everybody knows the rules.

Gay marriage OTOH, is neither legal nor is it valid. Shacking up with your gay fiends, however, is legal.

Nevertheless, indulging in that crap, as well as adultery, will result in your damnation. That's REALLY what you're ("anxiously awaiting.)

"Christians have targeted same-sex marriage because it doesn’t affect them (mostly) and also makes them feel better about their own sins."

Go ahead and feel better about your sins, then. God is your judge, not Christians.

more from IL?
Are you another swine out of IL, lily?

You must be. You apparently support this leader who keeps life support away from dying infants? You think you see bigotry when free Americans denounce that? A swine.

Robert in AZ
You are one helluva masochist, boy.

“To distance himself from his legal and moral responsibility for executions, Bush often cited a Texas statute that says a governor may do nothing more than grant a thirty-day reprieve to an inmate unless the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles has recommended a broader grant of clemency. But any time he wanted to, Bush could have commuted a sentence or stopped an execution. By the end of his governorship Bush had appointed all eighteen members of the board of pardons. He could easily have ordered a thirty-day reprieve and gotten word to the board that he had doubts about the fairness of a case and wanted an investigation and hearings. But the Texas pardons board has been a farce. The full Texas pardons board never meets to consider a death sentence. A few of them talk to one another on the phone. Sometimes. No one knows whether the clemency appeals are even read. As governor, Bush did nothing to reform the board's procedures.

In the Henry Lee Lucas case in 1998, Bush showed where the real power lay. He intervened with the Texas pardons board before they had a chance to make a recommendation, and after his intervention, the board handed him the decision he wanted: a 17–1 vote for commutation of Lucas's death sentence. The Henry Lee Lucas case gained national attention when it came to light that Lucas had been condemned to death for a Texas murder he couldn't possibly have committed, since he wasn't in the state at the time. Additionally, it was clear that Lucas would never be a threat to society because he was already serving six life sentences for other murders, which he may or may not have committed, since on a fairly regular basis he confessed falsely to hundreds of murders. Bush pointed out that jurors at his trial "did not know" certain facts that later came to light.”

- from Sister Prejean’s book

jeffrey now a crusader
The swine whom we cast our pearls before is crusading against the death penalty!!!

Wow, Jeffrey!

". . . the case of Terry Washington, a mentally retarded man of thirty-three with communication skills of a seven-year-old. Washington's plea for clemency came before Governor Bush on the morning of May 6, 1997. After a thirty-minute briefing by Gonzales, Bush checked "Deny"—just as he had denied twenty-nine other pleas for clemency in his first twenty-eight months as governor.”

Terry got his 37 minutes of consideration, Mr. Crusader. I suggest you ask whether he gave any of his victims a 37-minute stay of cold-blooded murder? His execution was legal, wasn't it? His appeals were turned down weren't they?

Find out, Jeffrey--if his jury panel sleeps at night; now that Terry is room temperature. Better yet; go to Crawford TX, and keep Bush awake nights, with your pipsquealing.

Dreadnaught
What does the abbreviation, “MI” mean to you? Illinois?

Your post is meaningless. What a surprise. More nothingness from a doddering old fool. You say it’s a free country, people can sin. But only if they’re heterosexual. Does that make any sense? Of course not, but that’s of no consequence when you’re trying to protect a dying catholic church from its own insanities. Bush kills inmates: good; Obama kills….no one: bad!

Christ: “Divorce is dreadful, to be avoided at all costs”
Catholics: “Cool, let’s keep divorce legal! Let’s worship Rush Limbaugh, he’s been divorced three times!”
God: “Thou shalt not commit adultery!”
Catholics: “Cool, let’s keep adultery legal and do it, often if possible!”
Christ on homosexuality and same-sex marriage: “[silence]”
Catholics: “Oh my God, we’ve got to stop same-sex marriage, we’ve got to make it illegal!”

I didn’t say anything about my sins, Dread, I’m referring to your sins. You think opposing same-sex marriage offsets your divorce and unfortunate bouts with adultery. Maybe it will. But I doubt it.

Jeffrey the Hypocrite
You say that Catholics are hypocritical for not making adultery and divorce illegal. You're ridiculous, since if they tried to do so, you would condemn them for bringing their faith into politics. And you talk about them making gay 'marriage' illegal, when it's never been legal anywhere in history until a few years ago. Every time you open your yap you demonstrate your bigotry against Christians and your poor misuse of logic.
And as you say, "Bush often cited a Texas statute that says a governor may do nothing more than grant a thirty-day reprieve" This is in fact the law. Then, you criticize him for not going beyond his legal function to instruct the board. You cite Prejean's book as a source for this, without mentioning that Prejean's book is by an extreme anti-capital punishment activist whose prejudice against capital punishment does not make her a reliable witness.
Now, if he did try to influence the board, you would criticize him for usurping their legal prerogatives, wouldn't you? Isn't your main charge against Bush ever and always that he acted beyond what his actual legal powers are? Hypocrite!

Dreadnaught I'm shocked
I thought you'd take the Catholic stance: that capital punishment is wrong.

"The Catholic bishops of the United States have provided careful guidance about this difficult issue, applying the teaching of the universal Church to our American culture. Along with the leadership assemblies of many Churches (for example. American Baptists, Disciples of Christ, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians), the U.S. bishops have expressed their opposition to the death penalty. First articulated in 1974, the bishops' position is explained in a 1980 statement, Capital Punishment. Individual bishops and state conferences of bishops have repeated in numerous teachings their opposition to the death penalty.

In their 1980 statement, the bishops begin by noting that punishment, "since it involves the deliberate infliction of evil on another," must be justifiable. They acknowledge that the Christian tradition has for a long time recognized a government's right to protect its citizens by using the death penalty in some serious situations. The bishops ask, however, if capital punishment is still justifiable in the present circumstances in the United States."

Jeffrey Clam Up

Jesus: "Cast not your pearls before swine;"

Swine:

You say it’s a free country, people can sin. But only if they’re heterosexual. Does that make any sense?"

NO, never said that. If we sin, we repent or we's damned. That make any sense?

" . . . you’re trying to protect a dying catholic church,

The Church is protected by God. The Church can never die, or lose versus the powers of hell.

The Church is inured to persecutions, atheism, ignorance and many more trials. God bless her!

"Bush kills inmates: good,"

In your dreams. Bush never killed anybody.

In fact, they were CRIMINALS for whom he refused clemency, --LEGALLY, Oaf!

"Obama kills… no one, bad!"

Stupid; his votes have been important advantages for every abortion clinic. It's a farce even to call them "clinics." As president, the SCUMBAG'S first order of business was to send our tax money to FOREIGN abortion enablers! All killers!

Christ: “Divorce is dreadful, to be avoided at all costs”

He said nothing of the sort. He DID say *marriage only between a man and a woman from the beginning,* Swine.

Catholics: “Cool, let’s keep divorce legal! Let’s worship Rush Limbaugh, he’s been divorced three times!”

If you don't like it suck a lemon, Goofy.

God: “Thou shalt not commit adultery!”

Catholics: “Cool, let’s keep adultery legal and do it, often if possible!”

S u r e . . .

Christ on homosexuality and same-sex marriage: [silence]

Christ: "Keep my father's commandments." Christ's apostle Paul: "You're damned and reprobate, for the sin of sodomy." Paul only acts as spokesman for Our Lord.

"Catholics: “Oh my God, we’ve got to stop same-sex marriage, make it illegal!”

Damn rot, stop it while we can, Swine-O.

It's insane, invalid and SQUALID & unnatural. And diseased; mustn't forget that.

Toodle-ooo, Swine Flu.



bishops
"acknowledge that the Christian tradition has for a long time recognized a government's right to protect its citizens by using the death penalty in some serious situations."

Dying on the cross next to Jesus, the Good Thief acknowledged freely; he and his fellow thief being crucified, were paying the price for their crimes; but Jesus was innocent.

Jesus didn't denounce sentences of death right there; where His word would have been definitive DOCTRINE. He knew what JUSTICE means; even though He Himself was sentenced unjustly.

Bush was an authorized servant of the people of TX; he upheld their laws; he believed in their justice.

ND playing catch up
“The Catholic position is clear: Abortion and same-sex unions are wrong and must never be legalized.”

Notre Dame is just accepting the reality of life in the US, and that includes accepting, even encouraging, gay people to get married and settle down. Catholics used to dislike divorce, even that’s ok now.

“Take gay marriage, legal in Massachusetts, Connecticut and now Iowa, with Vermont coming aboard in September. At its low, in 2004, just 32 percent of Americans favored gay marriage, with 62 percent opposed. Now 49 percent support it versus 46 percent opposed -- the first time in ABC/Post polls that supporters have outnumbered opponents.

More than half, moreover -- 53 percent -- say gay marriages held legally in another state should be recognized as legal in their states.

The surprise is that the shift has occurred across ideological groups. While conservatives are least apt to favor gay marriage, they've gone from 10 percent support in 2004 to 19 percent in 2006 and 30 percent now -- overall a 20-point, threefold increase, alongside a 13-point gain among liberals and 14 points among moderates. (Politically, support for gay marriage has risen sharply among Democrats and independents alike, while far more slightly among Republicans.)”

Abcnews.go.com

Capital Punishment
I understand the Catholic Church is against it. So am I, although I recognize that the Scriptures do not compel a person to believe this to be wrong, as they do adultery, homosexual activities, and theft. I believe it is wrong because I have no faith in the government to make a wise decision about ending a person's life. If I trusted government as much as Jeffrey and some liberals seem to, I guess I'd have to be for it.

Jeffrey/MI
You are living proof of the adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

1. There is a huge difference in Catholic moral theology between abortion and capital punishment. Abortion is malum intrinsice, intrinsically evil, which means that in each and every instance it is wrong, no matter the circumstances. No pope or bishop has described capital punishment as such. Pope John Paul II and the American Catholic bishops teach that, under the circumstances of contemporary life, there is no need to use this formerly licit form of protection. They explicitly admit that this is not a teaching derived from revelation, as is the immorality of abortion (and all killing of the innocent), but a pragmatic application of Catholic teaching to a particular time and place. Such judgments are as good as the reasoning on which they are built, just as would be a bishop's assessment on e.g. the economy. The big difference? For the sake of argument, if both Presidents Bush and Obama were Catholics, Bush would not be in 'sin' if he advocated capital punishment, not even if he carried them out, because a Catholic can, in good conscience, dissent from the pope and bishops' non-infallible teaching on this matter. But no Catholic no where can be in good conscience supporting abortion, because it is part of the infallible (from Revelation, constantly held through 2000+ years of tradition, but not 'declared' infallible, like the Immaculate Conception and Assumption)teaching of Christ through his Spirit-filled Church.

2. Plus, even if for the sake of argument, they were equally bad, 153 executions of guilty-as-tried convicts pales in comparison to 25 million + executions of innocent babies.


Jeffrey/MI continued
3. What Bush [reluctantly] did only pertained to him, the other 49 governors, and the POTUS, i.e., executives of government. What Obama does not reluctantly, but exuberantly like a cheerleader supports, even 1 minute prior to birth, affects boys, girls, young men and women all of whom can contribute to a pregnancy, and engraving abortion into law says 'no big deal.'

The Christian Church, Jeffrey
. . . Catholic or otherwise, doesn't decide what its policies are by reading the polls. So what is your point, presuming you have one? And black voters have a higher disapproval of gay marriage than white voters, but I notice you didn't mention that.

Also, quoting from Sr. Helen
Prejean's books is futile. Last time i checked she was not a sometimes infallible pope. Ergo, her musings are as good or not as mine. One could very well argue that she violated a cardinal rule of ministry, overstepping emotional boundaries, whereby you lose your objectivity, your ability to minister as other, absorbing the grief of the person you are supposed to be ministering to.

Thanks JMartin
You explained the source of the Catholic teaching on capital punishment far better than I did. I doubt it will have much effect on Jeffrey. He is a professional hater of organized religion, especially Christianity. P.S.- he's not fond of Orthodox Jews, either.

JMartin
My point is not which is graver, Obama’s opinion about the legality of abortion or Bush’s actual killing of prisoners, but rather, aren’t both objectionable enough to merit condemnation.


Church opposes abortion, death penalty -- but experts see difference

By Agostino Bono
Catholic News Service
June, 2004

WASHINGTON (CNS) -- Abortion and capital punishment are hot political potatoes which divide more than unite U.S. voters, but opposition to both is clear in Catholic teaching.

A major difference between the two issues is that accepting the abortion teaching is more important for adherence to one's Catholic faith than following the teaching on capital punishment, said several theologians and experts in Catholic social thought interviewed by Catholic News Service.

Another difference, outlined in the "Catechism of the Catholic Church," is that abortion is always wrong, while there may be circumstances -- although "very rare" in modern times -- when state-approved capital punishment is possible.

Catholic teaching sees a common theological base for opposing both.

The catechism discusses abortion and capital punishment as part of the church's adherence to the Fifth Commandment, "Thou shalt not kill."

Regarding abortion, the catechism says that "human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception" and that "this teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable."

Regarding capital punishment, it says that in today's world "the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity 'are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.'" The quote within the quote is from Pope John Paul II's 1995 encyclical, "The Gospel of Life."

hypocrite after all



"Cast not your pearls to swine," (Jesus Christ.)

The swine still insists Bush "killed" convicted, sentenced, duly processed murderers.

Bush never judged them; nor did he sentence a single criminal. All were given due process; he refused to commute sentences of death to life in prison.

Not one of them met execution at Bush's hand. He could have intervened. That wasn't his job as governor. It certainly took nothing away from lawful citizens. Or from effrey.

Jeffrey,
Jeffrey
Location: MI
Reply # 2
Date: Apr 30, 2009 - 9:43 PM EST JMartin
My point is not which is graver, Obama’s opinion about the legality of abortion or Bush’s actual killing of prisoners, but rather, aren’t both objectionable enough to merit condemnation.

Jeffrey,

Did Governor Bush actually 'pull the switch,' as they say, or push the button to drip the poisons, or however they performed capital punishment in TX when he was Gov.? No, I didn't think so. He performed his office through several levels of intermediaries, as President Obama is doing with the fedgov in his support of abortion. So, to that extent, IF one were to agree that both cap punish. and abortion are wrong, then both or neither are complicit in the evil-doing of others.

You ask: "aren't both objectionable...?" Yes, I would say that both are objectionable. But then, in your (intentionally?) convoluted sentence completion, you add "enough to merit condemnation?" There is no doubt from the Catholic moral theology standpoint, Mr. Obama's opinion deserves "condemnation;" it certainly does not merit an honorary doctorate of laws from a college named after the Mother of Jesus. Whatever Mr. Bush did or said regarding capital punishment, it deserves a lower level of rebuke than the objectively-always evil of abortion. (FYI: The only cases for which i personally sadly agree to the need for capital punishment is in the case of a life-sentenced murderer who kills a prison guard, police officer, or anyone else in trying to escape from prison. This does not over-value the life of those people; it coincides with the teaching of John Paul II, who taught that the only exception to a ban on capital punishment would be in the case of someone who could not be kept in prison otherwise. I would lump Osama bin Ladin and Timothy McVeigh into this category.)

Ps Jeffrey, Robert/AZ
Jeffrey,

The article you cite from "Catholic News Service", Agostino Bono, is worthless as authority. Frankly, from your comments, you sound more educated on the issues than Bono. Actually, the content of his piece more makes my point than yours.

Robert/AZ, thanks for the compliment. You've done a fine job opposing the Jeffreys of the world all day. Those of us on this side of the issues complement each other. If you are like me, you do it on the local as well as the national level. I know we never persuade the 'Jeffreys' of the world. But you never know who else, even on a one time lark, reads these comments, takes the argument to his or her church, or union, or precinct, and wins one for the Gipper. but frankly, the main reason i do this, is for fun, which i suspect is why Jeffrey submits his too.

How Bout We Talk About Actuals
Since Catholic schoolteachers are fired on the spot for marrying divorcees, what should we do with educators who honor the most powerful advocate for abortionists and euthenists in country?

The answer is obvious, and I am rooting with Terry for a Notre Dame comeback, but down in the pit of my stomach is a feeling that there will not be a just or fair outcome and that the well connected will walk, as usual.


Image Over Substance
In a May, 2001 letter to the ROMAN Catholic priestly hierarchy, Josef Ratzinger-then Prefect of the Office of the Doctrine of the Faith-directed that 1) Homosexuality and pedophilia will be kept secret, and 2) You (perprtrator and victime) are not bound to tell the truth. If the perpetrator or victim spoke of it, they faced excommunication. This so-called "holy" man was instructing people to lie, and obstuct justice.

In 1962-forty years prior to Josef Ratzinger's directive, Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani sent a letter to the ROMAN Catholic priestly hierarchy directing them to 1) Keep secret homosexual behaviour, and 2) Sex with brute animals.

Secular historians and theologians have well chronicled ROME's perversions for several centuries. The truth is that the priestly hierarchy is replete with homosexuals, pedophiles, and those who have sex with brute animals.

Since 1950 alone, ROME has paid out over 2.7 billion dollars in claims to those who have been brave enough to speak out.

And Notre Dame?

Image Over Substance II
When Ratzinger visited America in April, 2008 one of his many messages to America was that America was to blame for the sexual perversion in the "church."

My question to the lying Mr. Ratzinger is simply this: How do you explain ROME's perversions prior to the birth of this country?

It is this citizen's view that Notre Dame is doing very much in line with the Vatican's sick collection of minds. They preach one thing while they conduct another. Nothing new here.

sick anti-catholic out of control

N. Carolina is home to a whole gaggle of bigots; and this one seems out of control. Fulofgumapunk is his handle, I think.

Somebody throw him a baby-back rib off that porker Jack Chick is barbequein'-- he got religion with his swine flu.

TO: dreadnaught
A rabbi once said, "Ignorance is bliss only to those who are ignorant."

That's indeed true of people like you who-unable to refute facts-choose to name call demonstrating more about your ignorance, than about anything you know.

You're right about one thing, I love barbeque-with hush puppies, cole slaw, and a great big glass of ice tea!

Now you can go back to your dark room and your laptop and pretend like you rule the world.

Dear NC Bigot


You stated no facts I need refute. Just typical anti-catholic hate speech. The proper reaction to bigots is pray that God will forgive them their stupidity.

You like speak more from stupidity than actual hatred. But here we are in a thread about a Catholic university. Up pops Jack Chick in the form of a crude sap; calling other folks ignorant.

REPEAT--you stated no facts.

Bishop support
I donot know these Catholic Bishops who are standing for what the Bible teaches and their church, that has a reputation for the sanctity life and same sex marriage, but my Baptist hat is off to them. At least they stand by their convictions, not like a certain mega church Baptist pastor in California who urged his congrgation to vote for propsition 8 then back pedaled and apolgized to his homosexual friends. I can't speak for my denomination, but I am not proud of Rick Warren. He has certainly compromised what we Conservative, Bible believing Christians have stood for, ever since there were Baptists.
I am praying he will get his act straightened out. If he doesn't we should censure him and excomunicate him from the denomination.

Ex-Communicate all of them!
The members of the administration of Notre Dame that extended the invitation to Obama and every Catholic that participates or attends should be tossed out of the Church. They should be ashamed of themselves and I hope the graduating students show enough spine to boycott the ceremony or at least turn their backs on the Obamasiah. Notre Dame's money from the Church should also be cut off--as should Georgetown's!
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