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Wednesday, August 20, 2008
Terry Jeffrey :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama and Pro-Life 'Liars'
by Terry Jeffrey
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In an interview with David Brody of CBN on Saturday, Barack Obama leveled a startling charge at the National Right to Life Committee.

Brody brought up the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, noting "there was some literature put out by the National Right to Life Committee. And they're basically saying they felt like you misrepresented your position on that bill."

"Let me clarify this right now," said Obama.

"Because it's getting a lot of play," said Brody.

"Well, and because they have not been telling the truth," said Obama. "And I hate to say that people are lying, but here's a situation where folks are lying. I have said repeatedly that I would have been completely in, fully in support of the federal bill that everybody supported -- which was to say -- that you should provide assistance to any infant that was born -- even if it was as a consequence of an induced abortion. That was not the bill that was presented at the state level. What that bill also was doing was trying to undermine Roe vs. Wade."

The federal Born Alive Infant Protection Act sought to protect babies who survived late-term "induced labor abortions." The act said a born baby -- living outside her mothers' womb -- would be treated like a "person."

U.S. Senate Democrats unanimously supported the act because it included language they said prevented it from having any impact on Roe v. Wade. President Bush signed the bill in 2002.

In January, I reported in this column that Obama opposed an Illinois state version of the Born Alive Infant bill in 2001, 2002 and 2003. But I initially got one thing wrong.

I reported that in 2003 the bill was assigned to the Illinois Senate Health and Human Services Committee, which Obama then chaired, along with an amendment that added -- word for word -- the federal language Democrats said protected Roe. Both the bill and the amendment were sponsored by then-Sen. Richard Winkel, now an adjunct professor at the University of Illinois College of Law.

Relying primarily on the Illinois Senate's online bill tracking system, which says the bill was "held" in Obama's committee, I initially reported that Obama had not allowed the bill and amendment to come up for a vote.

After that column was released, I discovered this was wrong. Obama did call a vote on Winkel's bill and amendment.

To correct the record, I wrote a second column, citing former Sen. Winkel and Sen. Dale Righter, who was the ranking Republican on Obama's committee.

"I just read a copy of the Illinois Republican Staff analysis on SB 1082 (93rd General Assembly) and, contrary to the bill status report on the Illinois General Assembly Website, it shows the bill -- as amended -- was in fact called for a vote in committee on a motion to recommend the bill for passage to the whole Senate," Winkel wrote me in an email. "That motion failed 4-6-0 along party lines, and the chairman, then state Sen. Barack Obama, voted no. The result is that the bill died in the committee."

What about the comparison between this Illinois bill and the federal bill? "The amendment made my bill the same as the federal bill," Winkel told me.

Righter backed Winkel up. "I have full faith and confidence in what our files show absolutely," he told me in an interview.

That full faith and confidence was vindicated last week by records made public by the National Right to Life Committee. Its Website posted copies of both the "Illinois Republican Staff Analysis" to which Winkel and Righter referred and the relevant "Senate Committee Action Report" of Obama's Health and Human Services Committee.

Both show that in March 2003, Obama's committee unanimously approved Winkel's amendment to make his bill the same as the federal bill. (This vote, Republicans tell me, is a procedural courtesy Illinois Senate committees often extend to a bill's sponsor.) The committee then voted 4 to 6 to defeat the bill as amended. Obama voted no.

As noted in the materials the National Right to Life Committee posted on its Website, this record seems to contradict what Obama told the Chicago Tribune when he ran for the Senate in 2004.

"... Obama said that had he been in the U.S. Senate two years ago, he would have voted for the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, even though he voted against a state version of the proposal," the Tribune reported on Oct. 4, 2004. "The difference between the state and federal versions, Obama explained, was that the state measure lacked the federal language clarifying that the act would not be used to undermine Roe vs. Wade, the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court opinion that legalized abortion."

In January, when I wrote about Obama's 2003 committee vote against Winkel's bill, Obama's campaign press office did not respond to my repeated requests for comment. This week, it did.

The campaign does not contest that in 2003 Obama voted against a bill in his committee that was substantially identical to the federal bill. His position, the campaign says, was that the same legislative language could have had a different consequence on the Illinois state level, where there were abortion laws that might be affected, than on the federal level, where there were not abortion laws.

Pro-abortion absolutists should be pleased with Obama. There has never been a presidential candidate more demonstrably committed to their deadly cause.

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About The Author

Terence P. Jeffrey is the editor-in-chief of CNSNews

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R.C.
I am flabbergasted at how you speak of "gentler" ways to kill a human being! The act, in itself, is criminal, and the Roe vs.
Wade decision is not an excuse. That law is a dreadful mistake.

If I understand you correctly, the abortionist doctor must make sure the child is dead before it fully exits its mother's womb.

I am at a loss to understand how anyone can, in good conscience, condone these killings of growing human beings.

No one will EVER disprove that life begins at conception. That includes you, Planned Parenthood, everyone else who condones abortions.

The very great majority of abortions are sought by those who willingly had sexual relations...they know how babies are conceived.
What right do they have to kill another, separate, human being, because they wanted only pleasure without responsibility?

The whole bill is cruel
Shame on the Religious Right for forcing this awful bill on the American people. Obviously, no one has read the bill upon which this bill in ILL is modeled. The intent of the bill is wonderful, but the effects of the bill as written are terrible. No one should have voted for this bill. The intent was to avoid torture of babies that are born alive, but the effect is to force "overkill" of fetuses that "could" be born alive. Prior to this bill the intent of many doctors could have been to make as gentle an abortion as possible and when the abortion failed, to allow the fetus a peaceful death. The bill as written takes away the possibility of using a gentle abortion due to the fact that such an abortion could result in a live birth that would then result in a possible lawsuit for the doctor for failing in his abortion effort. As a result of this bill more aggressive means of abortion must be used to assure the fetus dies.
Many people such as myself believe the bill could have been written in a much more loving manner and could have allowed the gentle death of fetuses that would die no matter what is done to save them. We have forced our doctors to go from gentle methods to aggressive methods. http://www.prolifeismurder.com

http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-2TjBrmQlabMmkPXFrSmHjB_fBgzs yDOJmsQ-?cq=1&p=1

Obama's Reasons for Nixing Born Alive
They keep changing. The latest and for the very first time is that the bill was unnecessary. Then comes the recoding about the burden on the mother's decision.

Obama is sooo busted.

BO an abortionist?
There are many who would like to adopt new born babies. So why not let them? It is the best alternative since deciding to abort your baby only buys you a reservation in Hell - both in this life as well as in the life to come.

It could just be also that BO's adamant position on abortion may have been derived from possibly his mutual decision to abort one or more children prior to his marriage. Perhaps he is justifying his being "stuck" with a mountain of guilt to hide. We know that BO is a liar and professes to be a Christian, but I'm not sure where in Christ's teachings, abortion is ever condoned. Does anyone out there know if BO was ever personally involved in an abortion?

Who is lying?
Obama speaks with forked tongue...frequently.

Anonimus
Love your posts!

Yes, abortion IS about money. If the woman can't pay, no go.

The quacks who perform these awful "procedures" are in no wise humanitarian, else they would do their dirty work for free. They're perfectly willing to take taxpayer money if that's what it takes, but they never work for free.

I didn't think "rights" were necessarily obligations for others to fund.

Jim
Your agreement or lack thereof on the humanity of the unborn isn't important. It really is tragic that the only thing that defines a person's worth or humanity these days is the convenience of those whose obligation it is to protect that person.

It is a FACT that unborn babies can be operated upon to correct certain birth defects.

Now what? Still not "human" in your eyes?

Diane
If you can sleep well at night after agreeing with this monster, then you are one as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypDwNpgIUQc

ABORTION
The biggest losers in the abortion fight are the blacks. 16,000,000 black babies have been aborted since 1973. 512 of every 1,000 black pregnancies end in abortion.
How can Black-Americans support a man whose is committing genocide to their race??

Murder is murder, abortion is abortion

LC Location: MD
Reply # 2
Date: Aug 20, 2008 - 8:51 PM EST
Michael and Jim

Yes, you're right. Abortion is murder. It is what it is.

As a woman I will apologize to Michael and Jim for stupid women everywhere!

=========

You don’t have to apologize to me, we are all just giving opinions. I just hate it when people can not discuss real life problems, without getting mad at each other.

I am a great sticks and stones person, I can’t imagine getting upset at what anyone says, unless it was a mean and nasty threat to my Most Beloved Sweetie. Otherwise, give your comment, don’t get mad, try to learn, try to teach.

I can’t imagine that anyone ever changed their mind on abortion, by reading comments on TH.

But I will admit that I do get upset when people say they like the idea of throwing a new born into a trash can, rather than an abortion.

I don’t agree at all that Abortion is murder. Murder is murder of a live breathing human, an abortion is an abortion of a fetus, that is not yet breathing. It can only be murder if the fetus has become a child, but that is to late to call it an abortion.



Merle
Your right. But the Liberal Socialist twist any situation to fit their purpose. As an example, they tell you that the human inside the mothers body is not truly alive, or that it is a mere fetus, not yet a human being so therefore it's not murder. But when a pregnant mother is murdered and the unborn child dies as well. A Liberal judge calls it a "double homicide!"

Michael and Jim
Yes, you're right. Abortion is murder. It is what it is.

It is vile. It is ugly. It is wrong.If pro choice people had to witness a partial birth abortion would they change their stance?

It truly is a moral dilemma. Pro life means back to jabbing yourself with knitting needles, or whatever,to do away with the unwanted. Pro choice means partial birth, and doing nothing for infants who survive the "procedure".All of this is just wrong!

It is a Solomon decision. But if there were to be compromise , could not everyone agree that if one were to choose the death of a pending baby,it should at least be no later than the third month?

With all the knowledge that women have, with all the birth control available,this could be the rule.It's not perfect, but women have the responsibility to do as little harm as they can. Whether they like it or not....., WOMEN ARE RESPONSIBLE for making the decision to kill or go full term To wait beyond the third month is just selfish and souless. There are no shortages of adoptive families.

The idea foisted upon women that "Our bodies are our temples", and we have the right to do as we choose.That is just bogus bull touted by gutless Women's Lib groups like N.O.W.They say nothing about honor killings right here in America. Complete silence on their part. But if someone is denied a partial birth abortion...,they are all over it.For shame!

I am sorry that this has turned into a tome but...,women's liberation has done such damage to morality. they embrace a lie as their mantra.

I always wondered why in this debate we have pro life and pro choice. Why is it not pro life and pro death?

As a woman I will apologize to Michael and Jim for stupid women everywhere!


right to live
I have always been under the impression that after a baby is born it has it's own right to life. To let it die would be the same as letting someone who has been in a horrible car accident die without trying to help them. Some people would call this murder.

Jim
"What the lady does matters not, except for her pleasure.

If the man has a climax, there is a chance for a pregnancy."

Wow! So much for equality of the sexes! Right out the window, under the bus, over the shark and straight to the moon, Alice! The woman should not be held responsible for her actions! "Girls just wanna have fun!" Right?

If women need to have their "right" to be irresponsible protected by law, how are we supposed to consider them responsible enough to vote? Babies are all evil men's fault! Men should just be castrated, then women would never have to face the "horror" that is pregnancy! Stupid, liberal, truth-fearing / hating weakling. You are either an effeminate castrated boy-toy or a feminazi tool. Doesn't matter which.

Last words: get lost "jim," we don't want your kind here! We prefer the kind of people who think with their brains, not with their emotions.

For Jim
You write:

A man should mention the word abortion only if the lady he got pregnant wants one. The lady should mention the word only if she wants one."

OK.

My questions:

An irresponsible and knocked-up single woman should only mention the term "child support" if the father of her child first says he wants to make the choice to provide it?

Let's see you answer that one. Since you're so much in favor of the mother having the only vote in the decision to kill her unborn child, this one should be easy.

I hate this subject, but I hate the kind
of thinking posted by many of you, even worse.

Anominus Location: AZ
Reply # 4
Date: Aug 20, 2008 - 5:35 PM EST

It's only the man's fault the woman got pregnant? Again, nonsense! The child is as much a product of the man's actions as the woman's.

=====

What the lady does matters not, except for her pleasure.

If the man has a climax, there is a chance for a pregnancy.



Personal View and some good reading
I'm not big on forums but I always take the time to post my views on this subject because in my personal experience The abortion issue is what has made me one of those "Right wing nut jobs"
At the age of 19 my 20 yr old girlfirend was in my room telling me she was pregnant. Without thinking I said what most 19yr-old liberally educated\indoctrinted youth would say "Are you getting an abortion?".
Without a word she walked out. Well to make a 20 yr old (and growing by the day) short: I married her.
First. Some reading. For any liberal out there that has an open mind (I've yet to find any but keep looking) and for any conservative that once to shore up his ideological base I suggest a reading of the desenting opinion of Roe-Vs-Wade. Try reading what these guys in black robes had to say about the case and why they thought it should not be. Granted all you need to do is read the Conservative\Liberal forums or read the political section of a decent paper to see what they saw but knowing that our current political climate was forseen by these men as the end result of Roe-Vs_Wade should be a real eye opener to anyone that actaully is able to think without propoganda and cares for "true freedom". If you can read this and not believe Roe-vs-wade needs to go maybe some time in China or Russia is in order.
On a more personal note. The mere thought that I mentioned abortion before he was born makes me want to throw up. How SELFISH I had been? Abortion is cold blooded murder. I'll accept people that are Anti-gun or Pro-McCaid-Feingold and even count a few among my friends but I don't befriend murderers. I don't bat an eyelash telling Pro-murderers what I think of them. Socially or professionally. Don't expect me to take your view as your opinion. It's rubbish. Pro-Choice bahh Pro-Murder is more like it and I'll never be civil when dealing with such vile SELFISH scum.

Kevin
"As always, it's all about the money."

Actually, it's not all about the money. This is a grand social engineering experiment for liberals. The purpose of institutionalizing abortion was to make it affordable and easily obtainable to specific groups of people. This is all about eugenics and the supposed "betterment of the species." Read up on Margaret Sanger, the founder of the abortion industry, if you haven't already. There is a reason why they offer free abortions in third world nations and to certain ethnicities.

So, while the Democrat party may support the abortion cause for the money, the individual liberal supports it because it degrades the value of the human person and makes his life that much easier to control, in the long run. Humanity is nothing but a commodity to a leftist in power. In China, they force abortions because they have too much stock of a certain "commodity."

Obama-ites to the Rear!
Obama lied - babies die.

Jim
"I agree completely, “'Where we would be if Hitler, Stalin, Mao (or any other historical figure) had been aborted.'”

So should we just abort all babies to avoid the possibility of them growing up to be evil? Or is this your theory that "babies who are 'wanted' don't grow up to be evil dictators?" Nonsense. There will be good and evil until the end of time. Currently, there is abortion, which is evil, as are those who support it.

"You can, and that’s the way it should be. Abortion is not reason enough to make a decision as important as your vote."

Apparently, you missed the key term of that comment: Equally important. Each of the issues that I previously listed are all part of the moral fiber of America. Pull out one strand, and the rest will unravel. Besides, pointless, wholesale death of innocents caused by the foolish and selfish acts of others seems like a pretty worthy cause to consider in one's vote!

"A man should mention the word abortion only if the lady he got pregnant wants one. The lady should mention the word only if she wants one."

It's only the man's fault the woman got pregnant? Again, nonsense! The child is as much a product of the man's actions as the woman's. If the abortion decision is entirely up to the woman, why is it that the man is the one required to pay, not only for the abortion, but also for child support and all healthcare costs if the woman decides to keep "her" baby?

It is not up to you to determine what topics are "taboo." If you don't want to be involved in this debate, perhaps you should go elsewhere. I'm sure dailykos or huffpo have enough sycophants in their forums to bow and scrape before your awesome powers of "debate."

To Diane
Do you likewise support the rights of Islamic men to kill the women in their family for any infraction against their honor, real or supposed? Maybe women should keep their noses out of that issue as well?

The fact is, abortion is not about women's rights. With modern technology, preventing pregnancy has never been more simple and more reliable. EVERYONE should be working to reduce abortion. As the old saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

The reason abortions still exist is because the Big Abortion lobby stands to lose billions of dollars if abortion does indeed become rare.

Doctors, nurses, clinics, Planned Parenthood, NARAL, and others have become WEALTHY by promoting and providing abortions, and they are not about to allow anything to threaten their livelihood. As always, it's all about the money.

It's time to become civilized and stop killing our children for money. Preventing pregnancy rather than ending them should be the wave of the future.

jim
Issues? Issues!? We are discussing the most important issue of all! What kind of character this would-be president has! And why he should not be allowed to be in control of the most powerful nation on earth.

He is a liar, a fake, an Islamic terrorist sympathizer. An anti-American activist,a Liberal Socialist/Communist, a supporter of the Nation Of Islam ( a black Islam Hate group. And yes he has admitted to infanticide! Any one of us could go on and on about this monster the Liberals are trying to push on us!

His stance on abortion, although horrendous, and makes him an enabler of murdering babies. It is only one of a long list why he should not be president!

You must be a Liberal or a complete dolt!

Barry on abortion/Diane the Ditz
Barry has no core. the idea that he can be FOR partial birth abortion, or letting those that survive an abortion lay there to die...,it just shows a narcissistic emptiness.

And Diane...,puhleeeeze spare me the bull about the hardfought battle for abortion rights back in the day.That does not mean that if a woman is so freaking self centered AND dumb that she waits 6 or 7 months to have an abortion, that it is her right to have it. It is not! I think she has forfieted her precious rights. Sticking a pair of scissors in the back of an infants head to pull him from the womb has NOTHING to do with Roe v Wade.

Maybe I misread your comment.


Anominus Location: AZ
Reply # 2
Date: Aug 20, 2008 - 3:24 PM EST
Who can say where we would be if George Washington (or any other historical figure) had been aborted.
=======

I agree completely, “Where we would be if Hitler, Stalin, Mao (or any other historical figure) had been aborted.”

===========
Anominus Location: AZ
Reply # 1
Date: Aug 20, 2008 - 3:48 PM EST
Subject:

Why can't we have multiple issues of equal importance?
=========

You can, and that’s the way it should be. Abortion is not reason enough to make a decision as important as your vote.

A man should mention the word abortion only if the lady he got pregnant wants one. The lady should mention the word only if she wants one.



And BTW Jim:
Why can't we have multiple issues of equal importance?

The most common issues have already been listed in previous posts:

National Defense, Abortion, Immigration, Traditional Marriage, Taxation, Heath Care, Poverty, Free Enterprise, Religious Rights, Free Speech, among others.

Consider these issues to be a part of our national "self-portrait." Each are equally important, otherwise you end up without a nose, or an eye, or an ear. I am not a big fan of Picasso, so I hold each piece to be necessary.

Jim
"I guarantee you that I would not care one bit. My mother had another half-dozen children who would speak in my place. (My Dad said he had one and a half dozen children.)"

Of course you wouldn't care - you would be dead! You equate yourself with your siblings? Each person is unique in what they accomplish with their lives. Who can say where we would be if George Washington (or any other historical figure) had been aborted.

"And by the way, what about all those children who were not born as a result of all your sexual activity? Where are they hiding, and what are they saying."

What sexual activity? Some of us really do believe in and live a life of abstinance and self control.

"The bottom line is, there is absolutely no difference, one year later, between the actions and words from a fetus that was aborted, and all those seeds that were never given a chance to become a fetus."

Actually, the difference is that there is no way to force a fertilized egg to attach to its mother. There is no choice involved here, aside from the choice to engage in sex. Abortion is the decision by a consenting adult to have a developing human removed and destroyed. It's all about intent, just like determining what is murder and what is accidental death.

"You know some people have told their doctor that they have memories from before the womb, they remember being a seed."

Ok, and? One more reason to believe that life begins at conception, and therefore protect it whenever possible.

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - In order of importance!

To Jim
I admit that I'm a one issue voter. If both candidates are pro-killing babies, then I choose neither.

Litmus Tests
Anyone proposing any one or more of the following has failed my litmus test.

1. Not finishing what we started in Iraq or withdrawing on 16 mo. timetable regardless of consequences.

2. Nationalizing health care.

3. Increasing taxes or confiscating corporate earnings to fund vast increases in government programs for favored projects and programs.

4. Favoring big government solutions to any real or preceived problem.

5. Thinking the US should seriously consider donating 2-3% of GNP to fund a UN worldwide war on poverty. BTW: Didn't LBJ declare war on poverty with slick Willy declaring unconditional surrender naming poverty the winner when he signed welfare reform.

6. Telling one and all that past assoications with rabid racists, bomb throwing terroits, avowed communists, and convicted political fixers are just distractions from a discussion of the issues. None of the above should in anyway reflect on the charater or judgement of the Messiah.

7. Railing against "special interests" running Washington DC but being a complete toady to the NEA, big labor, trial lawyers, Moveon.org and environmental extremists but somehow not seeing these as "special interests."


In short BO has cranial rectial inversion on almost any issue before the electorate and fails all my litmus tests.


Think again Peppermint Patty

Peppermint2 Location: KY
Reply # 3
Date: Aug 20, 2008 - 12:48 PM EST

oh, and btw, Where would you be speaking if your mother had left you for dead in a linen closet?

==========

I guarantee you that I would not care one bit. My mother had another half-dozen children who would speak in my place. (My Dad said he had one and a half dozen children.)

And by the way, what about all those children who were not born as a result of all your sexual activity? Where are they hiding, and what are they saying.

The bottom line is, there is absolutely no difference, one year later, between the actions and words from a fetus that was aborted, and all those seeds that were never given a chance to become a fetus.

You know some people have told their doctor that they have memories from before the womb, they remember being a seed.


One issue voting?
Oh, I get it. It's like all those progressives who would never vote for a candidate who steadfastly and without reservation supports the campaign in Iraq. It's like the pro-abortionists who would never vote for a candidate who declared his intention to work for the overthrow of abortions-for-convenience.

"Therefore, you have no excuse, every one of you who judges. For when you pass judgment on another person, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, practice the very same things."
Romans 2:1

Diane
You say men shouldn't be sticking their noses into the abortion debate.

Fine. We'll leave aside the question of whether or not you believe women somehow get pregnant apart from a man's participation...

Do you submit then that women should not stick their noses into child support issues?

jim of CA
Ditto what dreadnaught said to you as my answer back to you.

oh, and btw, perhaps you should think before you speak. Where would you be speaking if your mother had left you for dead in a linen closet?

Certainly you wouldn't have the freedom to speak your mind on TH or anywhere because you as a human would have been thrown away.

The Messiah has no clothes
The "messiah" is a lying, anti-America, half-baked believer infanticide.


To Jim of CA


Your post:

"Most of you indicate that you would not vote for anyone who would permit abortions.

"Is there any other item, subject, title, position, or what ever you would call it, that is as important to you as anti-abortion?"

My own attitude; both to your question and to the item, subject, title, position-- working toward an election outcome;

We all must have such "items"-- but here we're really discussing ONE-- and it's abortion. Both as a heinous act and as pertains to our presidential candidates.

Also to WHOM a president names for the Supreme Court. A crucial decision.

There's no need to bring up any alternative political cause, though for myself-- immigration policy and illegal immigrants is SECOND in importance. The most important is PRO-LIFE.

We're sick and tired of the LEFT having the sole right to apply litmus tests on abortion. From now on, WE Pro-Life Americans are applying this litmus test to YOUR candidates ---->

NO! to any abortion enabler! No! to any Supreme Court Justice who legislates from the bench in FAVOR of extinguishing innocent human life in the womb! OUR LITMUS TEST. Any objections, Jim?


one-issue voting
If something as important to many pro-lifers as the value of human life, makes them one-issue voters, then, count me as one of them. I'm supposed 'feel ashamed' because I place such high value on human lives?

I do look at all of the other issues, however, as a faithful Catholic, the pre-requisite (sp?) HAS TO BE THAT THE CANDIDATE be first and foremost Pro-Life. Pro-life does NOT mean only anti-abortion. It also includes anti-euthenasia, anti-embryonic stem cell research, etc.

Yes, I'm currently aware that McCain has been in favor of emryonic stem cell research, and yes, it concerns me. However, for the best chance to make our country move towards a culture of life, McCain's my only option this year.

re 'at least this author is consistent'
mrbmrb,

you said "there is a lie in the first three paragraphs of this article and the lie is magnified continuously and regularly throughout the article. . "

you are another lib lier calling truth-tellers liers. you have no proof for your accusation.

Obama lied children died.
Is it just me???
Or does Obama seem to be lying about everything.

Anytime Obama says:
"Let me be crystal clear about this..."
or
"Let me clarify this right now..."

- its code for "Okay, at this time, im not sure exactly what I should be saying right now to straddle the fence and play to both sides, but here goes...".

He sure does alot of crystal clearing and clarifying - but things are always so muddy with him.


Think before you comment


Peppermint2 Location: KY
Reply # 1
Date: Aug 20, 2008 - 11:48 AM EST

besides the abortion issue.

=====

I didn’t ask , “besides the abortion issue,” I asked what ONE issue do you consider as important as the abortion issue. What other one-issue would assure your vote or non-vote, if abortion was not under consideration.

In other words, do you consider abortion to be the one and only one, most important issue in the national or the International scene.

Would your vote be changed by any other one issue you could mention. Forget abortion for the moment, as you anwer this question.


jim
yeah, other issues: raising taxes on people, refusing to drill offshore for oil, taxing oil companies further which will further raise gas prices for us at the pump, national health care for illegals paid by the tax payer, the world poverty tax: that's just a start besides the abortion issue.

at least this author is consistent
there is a lie in the first three paragraphs of this article and the lie is magnified continuously and regularly throughout the article. .

Well, let’s try again.


Let’s assume that both the Pres. and VP candidates from both parties are well educated, all have 30 years of honorable political and military service to their country.

All of the personal items, family, law abiding, and on and on are acceptable to 99% of the people.

Now let’s assume that the candidates from Party A are firmly against Abortion, and the candidates from Party B are pro-choice.

You as an anti-abortion activist, would without a doubt would vote for Party A, because of the Abortion issue.

Now let’s assume that for some reason, the issue of abortion had never been mentioned, so was not a subject for discussion in this election.

Now tell me the one, and only one, National or International issue that Party A was for and Party B was against, that would determine your vote.

That is, some other National or International, not personal or political, not abortion, that would determine your vote.

I want to hear some issue, other than abortion that is of utmost importance to you.

Or am I to assume that you are ashamed to admit you are a one-issue voter?

Obama and the right to life
I may be wrong but it seems to me that when Rick Warren asked the question about abortion.
The most troubling thing Obama did was treat it as if we were talking about manufacturing. The scientific prospective or the theological perspective. (what in gods name does he think we are talking about).. Automobiles
He has two children and then coldly and calculatingly dismisses babies in that way.
That made my blood run cold.

THE PEOPLE'S PARTY OF ILLINOIS
Those of us in in the People's Republic of Illinois who have followed the Messiah's career know the supreme irony of a puppet of the radical Chicago Dhimmicrat Machine calling anyone a liar.

In addition to opposing the Illinois Born Alive Act, he has vehemently supported partial birth abortion in lockstep with the views of his Chicago handlers.

In his spare time, when not voting present 130 times in the Illinois Senate, he has never found a new tax or increase on an "old" tax he didn't like.

Caveat emptor - "Let the buyer beware."

0blahma matches Clinton
in lying--at least.

Prevention
Prevention in these discussions rarely makes an appearance; abstinence, condoms, birth-control pills, IUD, diaphragm, sponge, spermicide and vasectomy are all viable alternatives to abortion.

babies die
because selfish women find it easier to kill them than to wave goodbye. There are any number of families that will gladly adopt an unwanted child, no matter what the circumstances of its conception were. Rape? Alcohol fueled stupidity? Doesn't matter, someone will come forward to adopt. Don't believe me? Go to any news story concerning an abandoned baby/child. Switchboards light up with people willing to take the child, no questions asked about circumstances of the child's conception.

He lied, babies die. He's not fit to be dog catcher, but then people would line up to protest him if he euthanized unwanted dogs.

Paul
I like your new saying "Obama lied babies died:
Quite apt.

I guess it's above BO's pay grade to answer about abortion, but not above his pay grade to decide NOT to protect babies aborted who remain alive.

It makes one think he'd tear a baby right out of his daughters' wombs if they were so unfortunate to become pregnant. He did say he did not want them saddled with that.

This guy is a monster and this subject can include men since there is NO RIGHT to abortion in the Constitution as Diane claims there to be but a trumped up right by leftist judges.

To Diane
The sanctioned death of living humans is EVERYBODY'S business. Suggesting that only women have a right to weigh in on it is like claiming that only soldiers have a right to speak up about war, that all the civilian peace advocates have an obligation to just shut up.

It's a LOT like suggesting that only property owners should have the right to vote on certain matters. Or that lower income people have no right to vote on income taxes, since by and large they pay none. Perhaps only men should be allowed to speak on matters relating to paternal rights and responsibilities?
Would you advocate these things? Then something is wrong with your principle.

We are NOT one nation of women, plus one nation of men. We are NOT one nation of blacks, plus one nation of whites, plus one nation of everybody else.

We are ONE NATION, and we ALL have the right and responsibility to weigh in on national-level issues. If you can't cope with that, move.

I continue to be astonished at the number of progressives who reject the principles of democracy.

Diane, The abortion issue is not ...
... about women's rights. That is NARAL propaganda.

The Abortion issue is about defending helpless children against murder.

No amount of whining from irresponsible women will change the real debate, and no amount of NARAL propaganda will change the immorality of abortion.

I guess we can now say...
"Obama lied, babies died"

Diane
As a woman I guess I have a right to stick my nose in the abortion issue (although I believe men have as much right to discuss the issue). The article isn't about abortion, it's about infanticide. And it's about Obama lying again. Even if the Roe v. Wade language wasn't in the state bill doesn't it seem as if someone who believes in caring about the "least among us" would rather save the life of a baby than think "oh my gosh, if I save a baby's life then maybe some woman somewhere can't have an abortion! Best let the baby die." But the wording WAS there. And he still voted against saving the life of a baby. And he still lied about it.


Diane
35 years ago, men AND women lost a part of their souls. There is nothing feminine about taking a life, so the term feminist is a misnomer. As a woman, I understand the fear a woman may have when she finds she's pregnant--especially if it's the result of a rape or incest. But in weighing one life against another--or one innocent victim against another--I can't see that removing the life of one balances the equation. And women who unthinkingly engage in sex for pleasure with no thought to the results should never use abortion as an answer.

Diane
We will never cease to fight for the lives of those who are least able to defend themselves against the selfish pleasure of people like you.

Rick
The peace of Christmas carols is not temporal peace; it is personal peace. This explains how someone who is undergoing horrendous experiences, such as life-threatening illness or the loss of a child or war or flood or pestilence, can have peace within them. But that is not something that a purely secular person seems to understand. That is the peace that Jesus gives.

Abortion Not Up For Debate
Abortion rights were won by women 35 years ago. As a feminist, I will wholeheartedly fight to honor the rights women have already won. Now, what the law has to do is make sure illegal abortions are not being performed, eh? So, what you men need to do is take your nose OUT of the abortion issue.

to Rick
The acceptance of abortion as the norm has contributed to the increased violence of mankind. When you disregard the sanctity of life at the most basic level, you create a society that values some life (self) above others. So it is no longer "wrong" in society to destroy life that is deemed inferior or unwanted. If society allows a mother to destroy her closest kin (a child) out of convenience, why is it so wrong to kill and murder people that you don't know, don't like or find detestable?

The Rape of McAmnesty's Daughter
Don't you remember during the primary campaign a reporter asked McAmnesty what he would do if his daughter were raped (say by an illegal alien he has let in, as so many American women have), and she became pregnant? He said they would seriously discuss abortion! Now he lies and tells the evangelicals just the opposite! All the time looking for an abortionist running mate! "Do as I say, not as I do!" If he is not dumped in St. Paul, you will have an abortionist as your Presidential candidate, and that is a fact. Why no outrage about that, Terry?

Make no mistake about it, McAmnesty is a liberal Democrat, and would have made a fine VP choice for Kerry, a job which McAmnesty tried hard to get. On the abortion issue, as with so many others, he is simply lying to the people who want to vote for a real Republican.

Give Obama a break...
...he may have voted against those Born Alive bills not because he was against them but, because he could not understand them. Since when is it a crime to be stooopid?

Murderer Osama
Obama is as much a murderer as is Osama.

Obama lied
The point here is Obama has lied on this matter.

The point here is Obama knows no other moral reality except the political exigency to become elected.

That is why he is the perfect Democratic nominee! Democrats undermined the war, push the homosexual agenda, and would kill their mothers, as confirmed by their blood thirst to kill unborn children, to gain the Whitehouse.

the origin of abortion
Since some are not smart enough to know abortion is murder perhaps they should be made aware of the origin of abortion....According to Enoch the prophet of god, a fallen angel taught mankind abortion...
Enoch book 2 parables...69:1... And the fifth was named Kasdeja: this is he who showed the children of men all the wicked smitings of spirits and demons, and the smitings of the EMBRYO IN THE WOMB, that it may pass away,..... THIS IS ABORTION...
If this doesnt convince men that abortion is evil there is no hope for them..Judgement is here....better wake up.

the one and only ten
Jim's -Subject: Is abortion the only one?

Jim you use one 10 times in your priggish demand.

1- Frank Davis
2- Ayers
3- Saul Alinsky
4- Rev Wright
5- Fathead Phleger
6- The Abortion Lie
7- The Public Funds Lie
8- The Bogus Race Card
9- His Iraq Policy
10-His Total Lack of Experience


Is abortion the only one?


Most of you indicate that you would not vote for anyone who would permit abortions.

Is there any other item, subject, title, position, or what ever you would call it, that is as important to you as anti-abortion?

Is there any other "one-idea," "one-action," "one-item" that would cause you to vote, or not to vote for someone?

Don't tell me about the candidate's background, their experience, their education, their past preformance, just tell me about the one subject that would out weigh all others, to get you to vote or not vote for someone.

One and only one.


Obama's website
Obama's website defends his vote against the Illinois legislation by stating it did not protect Roe vs Wade as the Federal legislation did. The clear implication of that defense is that he would have voted for it had it included the language of the Federal legislation. Now, confronted with that lie he claims the Federal clause was insufficient protection at the State level. Even were that so, certainly the Committee Chairman (Obama) could have offered and an amendment that WOULD have afforded the protection he felt necessary.

Paygrade
What was Obama's "PAYGRADE" when his wife Michelle announced that she had his human baby daughters growing in her belly.


Obama must have been reading
the recent book, "Ready, Fire, Aim," because this seems to be the procedure he uses in answering questions.

VP Huckabee: MCCAINS ONLY HOPE.
Most American's DO NOT favor abortion. Nor do they wish to align themselves with factions dedicated in butchering innocent babies inside and outside the womb. And NO, that baby is NOT the women’s body; it is a separate body with a separate heartbeat and separate brain activity. And YES, the unborn baby FEELS PHYSICAL PAIN as it is being ripped out of what should be the safest place on earth - mother’s womb!

The Planned Parenthood abortionists lie to young women all the time just to get their money, while those ex-mothers and ex-fathers suffer emotional distress as they realize everyday that they have just allowed a child killer to convince them, not only to take their money, but also to kill their precious little baby. Abortion STOPS A BEATING HEART and the future of a civilization.

People weep and wail over the loss of a High School football player destined for a great professional career who had been gunned down by a random shooter, but yet we will never know the great deficit future generations will suffer for the loss of over 50 million innocent babies in this country alone. Shame on America for tolerating this horror… and shame on its’ citizens for tolerating their personal complacency. Pro-choice is a lie - Babies do not choose to die!

Away with this archaic freakish, barbaric practice! It will soon be done away with, along with these fake pro-abortion polling numbers! As long as the president chooses judicial nominees his Vice-president better be pro-Life if he is ever going to win an election.

"A nation that cannot protect its most innocent and helpless citizens and the sanctity of human life is a weak nation that will utterly collapse economically, socially, relationally and entirely." - HMH

ATHEISM is a CATASTROPHIC FAILURE. Get out while you still can.

http://www.evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#facts_about_evoluti on
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