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Wednesday, December 12, 2007
Terry Jeffrey :: Townhall.com Columnist
In Defense of the CIA
by Terry Jeffrey
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Water-boarding Abu Zubaydah as a last resort to find out what he knew about pending terrorist plots was a justifiable act of self-defense.

Two weeks before the September 11, 2001 attacks, according to the 9/11 Commission, a foreign intelligence service issued a report on the following topic: "Consideration by Abu Zubaydah to Attack Targets in the United States."

That threat should have been taken more seriously.

The commission described Abu Zubaydah as a "sympathetic peer" of Osama bin Laden. In the years before 9/11, he operated the Khaldan and Derunta terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. "While the camps were not al Qaeda facilities," the 9/11 Commission said, "Abu Zubaydah had an agreement with bin Laden to conduct reciprocal recruiting efforts whereby promising trainees at the camps could be invited to join al Qaeda."

Some of the terrorists Abu Zubaydah trained and directed were American citizens.

On Nov. 30, 1999, for example, according to the commission, Abu Zubaydah placed a call to one of his lieutenants, Khadr Abu Hoshar. It was intercepted by Jordanian intelligence. During their chat, Abu Zubaydah told Abu Hoshar: "The time for training is over."

The Jordanians interpreted this as a "go" signal for an attack. They arrested Abu Hoshar and 15 others. "One of the 16, Raed Hijazi, had been born in California to Palestinian parents," said the commission. "After spending his childhood in the Middle East, he had returned to northern California, taken refuge in extremist Islamist beliefs, and then made his way to Abu Zubaydah's Khaldan camp in Afghanistan, where he learned the fundamentals of guerilla warfare. He and his younger brother had been recruited by Abu Hoshar into a loosely knit plot to attack Jewish and American targets in Jordan."

This Northern Californian, according to the commission, spent the late 1990s working as a cabdriver in Boston, traveling back and forth between there and Jordan "gathering" money and supplies, recruiting would-be terrorists in Syria, Jordan and Turkey for Zubaydah's camps, and finally returning to one of those camps to get specialized training in explosives.

The foiled plot involving Hijazi and Abu Hoshar, according to the commission, aimed to attack the Radisson Hotel in Amman, the border crossing between Israel and Jordan, two Christian holy places and an airport. The idea was to hit them "at a time when all these locations were likely to be thronged with American and other tourists." Abu Zubaydah approved the plan.

After he was captured, according to the commission, Hijazi's little brother bragged that the terrorist group's motto was: "The season is coming, and the bodies will pile up in sacks."

Two weeks after these terrorists were detained in Jordan, Customs arrested Ahmed Ressam trying to enter the U.S. from Canada. Ressam had a bomb in his car that he intended to detonate at Los Angeles International Airport. The August 6, 2001 intelligence briefing prepared for President Bush said that Ressam told the FBI that "Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate the operation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning his own U.S. attack."

In the spring of 2001, the alarm was sounded at the White House about Abu Zubaydah.

"On May 29," the commission reported, "[Richard] Clarke suggested that [then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza] Rice ask DCI [George] Tenet what more the United States could do to stop Abu Zubaydah from launching a series of major terrorist' attacks.'"

In an email to Rice and her then-assistant Stephen Hadley, Clarke said: "When these attacks occur, as they likely will, we will wonder what more we could have done to stop them."

After 9/11, Congress authorized war against al Qaeda. The following March, Abu Zubaydah was severely wounded while being captured. Reports in the Washington Post and New York Times over the past week have revealed that after Zubaydah was nursed out of a coma in Pakistan, officers of the Central Intelligence Agency tried to get him to reveal what he knew about terrorist plans against the United States. He was not forthcoming.

Eventually, he was flown to another country where he was water-boarded for 35 seconds. John Kiriakou, a CIA interrogator who had failed to get valuable information out of Zubaydah by softer means, and who did not participate in the water-boarding, told the Washington Post that the waterboarding "was like flipping a switch."

Afterward, according to Kiriakou, Abu Zubaydah surrendered information that "probably saved lives."

The CIA inspector general, the Justice Department and both the House and Senate intelligence committees are now launching investigations of why the CIA destroyed videotapes of the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah and another detainee. We are about to see an election-year politicization of intelligence gathering that will amount to a war-time criminalization of intelligence gathering.

Sensible Americans should have just two words for CIA officers who got information from Abu Zubaydah that "probably saved lives": Thank you.

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Terence P. Jeffrey is the editor-in-chief of CNSNews

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everybody's talking too much
There is much too much talk coming out of our intelligencec services. How do all these stories leak out to our "friends" in congress? As Rowan Scarborough states in his hair raising book- SABOTAGE "signifcant elements within the CIA are underminig both the president and national security through leaks, false allegations and outright sabotage." Does anybody with half a brain think it's a coincidence when pictures of detainees with underware on their heads or talk of secret holding cells show up on CNN. While dedicated operatives risk their lives out in the field there are other members with a liberal agenda leaking to the press. I for one am not impressed by ingrates who had parents flee the 12th century to come to this country can now pose as Americans. Speaking as someone who was at ground zero on 9-11 and lost countless brave brothers -if one American life can be saved I could care less what hapens to these america- hating cockroaches.

This entire issue is more political
cr*p from the Lamocrats. It never ceases to amaze me on how far these traitorous scumbags will go to try to enhance their political position. Water boarding is NOT torture, no matter what these idiots say. In 2002 when these interrogations took place 90% of the scum who are now screaming never opened their mouth AND most of them knew everything that was going on. They knew then that if they opened their mouth it would be political suicide. So now that the public has “forgotten” about 9-11 they can go back to being America haters and foreign worshippers. They can use anything they think will harm Bush.

Anyone with any brains at all know why these tapes were destroyed, they are just not saying it. They were destroyed to protect the agents involved. It’s not protection from the terrorists that they needed, it is protection from the left wing idiots in our own congress that they needed. They being experts on the CIA knew that there are, in fact, two CIAs; one that wishes to accomplish the clandestine goals that strengthen America, and the ones who care nothing but for supporting the Lamocrats.

Riggmaster & Vic are dead on..
I agree that a big "THANK YOU" is in order.

Frankly if taking jumper cables to a suspected terrorist's testicles can prevent another 9-11 than I say Red = positive, Black = negative...

DEM UPROAR
What a crock, If the LIBS are so upset about someone detroying documents or tapes they need to bring the MASTER DESTROYER back to the Courts and do what he said hye would do. You LIBS know what Im talking about, SANDY BURGLER, you no the DEM who stole all those 9/11 documents and destroyed them so BILL(THE SCUD) CLINTOON would not get in trouble. He still has to take a Lie detector test like the DEM PARTY said he would. So where is the outrage of someone that is so dear to you LIBS heart. The BURGLERMEISTER is and will always be a CROOK. WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE FROM YOU BLEEDING HEART LIBS. about BURGLER.

Add my name to the thank-you note
The problem is that we'll never know exactly what mayhem was prevented thanks to the waterboarding of Zubaydah and others, because it fortunately didn't materialize. And it's obviously harmful to publicize the information obtained, as doing so alerts the enemy that it's time to change tactics--as happened when the fact that we were intercepting cell phone transmissions was aired.

I really don't care that Zubaydah was waterboarded. The technique is not life-threatening. And since it appears to work, I really don't care how life-threatening it may appear to the suspect under interrogation. After all, it's Al Qaeda who's threatening OUR lives, and in no uncertain terms.

I really don't care that the tapes of the interrogation were destroyed, whatever the reason for it. I think Vic's right, but another possibility is that there may be information on the tape that could jeopardize ongoing covert activities if made public. That's also happened before, to our detriment.

To criminalize intelligence-gathering in wartime is to simply concede defeat, which is probably the game plan of the Hate America crowd. I hope all those folks advocating for kinder, gentler interrogation techniques enjoy all the kindness and gentleness shown to them under Sharia.

CIA, thank you
Dear officers of CIA, who did waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah and others, thank you for doing so and saving American lives. It is the political correctness of liberals of this country which could prevent you from doing your job and get us all in trouble. They (liberals) do not understand that we are at war, and do not take the terrorist thread seriously. Instead they are playing election year political games. Thank you for doing your job again.

Simulating drowning...
Is NOT cutting off limbs, skinning alive, attaching electrodes to body parts and inflicting pain, or raping a beloved family member and then squeezing the life out of them before your eyes.

We Americans DO NOT KNOW what true Torture is.

For many of the liberal Left, these are examples of "Torture:"

It's having to go back to the family dinner table once or twice a year and being civil to those that you are related to by blood and genetics, not proximity, chance or ideology.

It's being "silent" and standing still for the National Anthem before a sporting event.

It's being stuck somewhere with people you don't know and they are listening to Rush, or Glenn, or Sean, or Laura, or any number of "talk radio" personalities and guess what, they aren't changing the station for you, 'cause they want to hear what they have to say.

And oh, by the way, the Islamic Fascist terrorists HATE you, the "godless, hedonistic, self-worshiping, liberal" more than they hate me, a woman of conservative values and faith.

vkus
Please read the column again, and again.

There is NOTHING in that column that proves that the information that was obtained by torture would not have been obtained by other means, nor is there ANY indication that there was necessity of time (The typical ticking bomb scenario cited by supporters of torture). The author makes one comment. "John Kiriakou, a CIA interrogator who had failed to get valuable information out of Zubaydah by softer means, and who did not participate in the water-boarding, told the Washington Post that the waterboarding "was like flipping a switch." We have NO idea whether continued soft means would have worked.

More to the point, since all of the information that was gained is classified, there is absolutely no reason to believe that the information gained was actually of any value. Keep in mind that the CIA already broke the law by destroying tapes that were supposed to be preserved.

I'm not asking you to take my word for gospel. I'm asking you to be skeptical. I'm not accusing you, but I find it interesting in discussions such as this. Some folks are more than willing to believe the absolute worst about Clinton. They then turn around and turn a blind eye to anything that this administration does.

The same agent who talks about all of this, has said that waterboarding was involved. He says, as does many other sources, that waterboarding is torture. Torture is unacceptable. Period.

I have a cartoon
in my head of leading democrats saying " but we're better than that to waterboard" as bombs explode them and the buildings around them.

You GO CIA
All we hear is that we must save our men from being tortured by the enemy. and if we do it, they will too!! What a bunch of hooey. These terrorists already torture, and behead our guys.

These terrorists are animals, with no conscience what so ever, from killing babies, and serving them for dinner to their parents, to whip them into line, to torture of any kind to anyone who gets in their way.
I say do what it takes to get them to talk, and I don't think waterboarding is torture. Just scares them into thinking they are going to Allah, which they aren't as anxious to do as they claim.

Waterboarding is not torture
I can tell you that waterboarding is not torture and has been done to our own service men as part of the preparation for war. For true torture go back and watch the videos of the followers of the religion of islam sawing off heads. I am not weak of heart and I could only watch it once. If you haven't seen it you have no business commenting on anything we do to prevent further attacks. These people are the most ruthless enemy we could have. There will be a moving coming out soon titled "Charlies War" after the book of the same name. Check out the book (I'm sure the movie will gloss over much of the details) and learn what the Afgans did to Russian prisoners.

A note on intelligence gathering. I have seen many experts making statements about how certain more aggressive interrogation techniques do not gain reliable intelligence. This is somewhat true if that is the only method utilized. However, most experts know that you never use only one source of information. When conducting interrogations you test the subject on known facts to test the truthfulness of any statements he might be making. Then that information is put together with other intel to attempt to complete the puzzle. That being said...NO INTEL is 100%!! There is always an element of doubt but taking away any piece of the puzzle increases the chances we could be wrong. Let our people do the work and try to keep us safe.

dogjudge
yeah, let's talk them to death, then they can't blow themselves up.

YOU don't consider it torture
You know it's funny about laws.

What YOU think really doesn't matter. Just because YOU think you should be able to go 55 doesn't make any difference to the cop who pulls you over because you are supposed to be doing 40.

The same thing holds true with waterboarding.

The fact that a bunch of people on this site feel that waterboarding isn't torture really isn't germane. The FACT is that according to various international treaties and laws waterboarding IS torture. Various people have been tried and sent to prison for using the technique.

Next we'll hear you folks moaning when the people who committed these acts end up in prison.

A crime is a crime. Fortunately, the world has already decided in many cases what torture is and isn't.

What some of you think is fair retribution is really immaterial. As aside. Try to remember all of your comments when someone you know has been captured and some other country is thinking about using the techniques you feel are acceptable.

Stateless
When you are a Stateless combatant you have no rights under the Geneva Con. . These terrorist should be thankful for the water boarding. I think personally they did not deserve water boarding. No interrogation should be necessary. Just a firing squad with the other terrorist watching. Oh, I almost forgot, rub them with a ham first. I'll bet one of them would start talking.

dogjudge
You must be a defense lawyer who represents pedophiles. Perhaps we should be limited to multiple choice questionnaires. Or will a man who is known to blow up innocent civilians respond to "Please" if asked nicely? A Conservative who speaks mere words--like Ann Coulter--causes tremors and convulsions with the least Liberal amongst us. Should we outlaw her, too? If we were waterboarding every detainee in Gitmo or elsewhere, I could maybe empathize with the position. This issue is because we are needlessly limiting those people putting their lives on the line to protect us from an enemy who cares not a wit about human rights. Muslim rights--not women, not children--just Muslim men.

LL in La.
Defense lawyer who represents pedophiles? No ACLU. And since most of my clients are current, or ex-Republicans, I'll have no problems staying very rich. Apparently you have run out of the ability to discuss facts and issues, so you disparage someone with personal attacks.

See the rest of your logic isn't really pertinent, is it? Since Gitmo, and the other secret prisons, aren't open to visits, we don't know how many prisoners have been tortured. Do we?

As for your final argument about the type of people we may be torturing, it really is irrelevant. None of these people have been convicted, many haven't even been charged with anything.

It's also interesting how we've gone from, "We don't torture" to "Waterboarding isn't torture" to "We only torture when there's a ticking time bomb" to "We only torture high profile detainess" to "We only torture those folks who are Islamofascits" to "We only torture those folks who are . . ."

There have been charges that the US torture some folks, never got any information, and then released them. Funny when it went to court, the administration didn't want the facts to come out. Their argument to stop the trial was that state secrets would come out. Interesting. State secrets would come out in a trial when the person involved was never charged, and was simply released.

dogjudge
You seem to think that words speak louder than actions. International treaties go out the window in war time. You can call water boarding whatever you want its still better than getting your head cut off. By the way you could argue that war is a crime so do both sides get brought up on charges at the end of hostilities?

Semper fi/par
"international treaties . . ."

I don't know if you truly believe this, or what.

Let's assume you are correct.

You want to explain to me why there are soldiers who are in prison because of Abu Graib, My Lai, etc., etc. My guess is that those soldiers might disagree with you about that point.

Think about what came out about Abu Graib. Care to tell me one thing that was brought out that would rise to the level of waterboarding? So if soldiers are in jail because of Abu Graib, why wouldn't people go to jail because of waterboarding?

Water boarding
Have you noticed that the liberals who scream about waterboarding think that it's all right for Islamo-fascist-terrorist-murderers to behead innocent victims.

Ron
Care to give us a source for that ridiculous piece of information?

RON
The islomafacist isnt the DEMS terror problem, hell they think GWB is the terrorist. I spent 22 yrs in the military and I was waterboarded because before you can be it you have to do it. I am here to tell you that you will rat your own mother out if you have the info the need to get her. It saved American lives back then and it saves American lifes today.


So my little minded DEM friends keep on whining because the DEM LED CONGRESS had a chance to make waterboarding outlawed and they couldnt do it. Nancy P. knows that it works because she was briefed, hell they all know it works they just want to try and make the American People believe different for political purposes.

Chuck
"The Democrats had the opportunity to . . ."

First of all, you care to give me some references to where you think waterboarding is LEGAL? There are a variety of places that state that waterboarding is not legal. Additionally, the McCain bill, which the President signed, outlawed "enhanced interrogation techniques". That includes waterboarding. The President issued a signing statement, but that statement has not been tested in the courts. Very doubtful that it would get past the courts, obviously my opinion.

Finally, your inference is that ONLY the Democrats are opposed to waterboarding. Sorry, but you are very wrong there. McCain feels that it's torture. Lindsey Graham, another strong supporter of the President also feels it is torture. Many, many other REPUBLICANS feel it is torture.

So please don't try to make this a Republican versus Democrats issue. It isn't.

MLD
Im not surred of you so bring it on

dogjudge
My reference to you sir is me. Hell if you DEMS can spew hatred toward the troops and Nancy P. new, then what are you whing arse LIBS crying for.

Waterboarding WORKS and if you dont think so let me WATERBOARD YOU.

This isnt a DEM against REP thing here, it is a DEM against AMERICAN thing here. We will do whatever it takes to save Americans lives because GOD knows you LIBS favor the Terrorist over America, hell just ask the terrorist they will tell you that. Wait until the elections and every TERRORIST out their will be backing the DEMS just like in previously elections.

Chuck
Please re-read my 12:19 post about Abu Graib, etc.

I also served in the military, AF '67 to '71. Funny how they had a LOT of things that covered our conduct when it came to wars, etc. Funny how those things, and more are still in existence. Funny how recently the military went out of it's way to distance themselves from the issue of waterboarding and other "enhanced techniques".

So please take your John Wayne/Rambo BS and go away. What you are suggesting would put you and any others who tried it in jail for a long time.

dogjudge - military training
if what you say is true and there are articles to support what you say about waterboarding, then why aren't the military trainers jailed for torture?

there can't be an exemption from torture, can there?

i do not think that chuck is lying.

a good friend of mine was a navy seal during the vietnam era and he described the interrogation techniques he underwent which included "the water cure"

As for the tapes...
Unless there's some law that the CIA must document these sessions on tape, then they are under no obligation to keep tapes they may have made.
Destroying such tapes is therefore MOOT.
No crime, no nothing.

moses
I don't make those laws. Nor do I enforce them.

My easy assumption is that the people who submit to these types of things are doing so voluntarily, hence there isn't a liability.

From time to time, you get drill instructors (or whatever they are called depending on your branch of the service) who cross the line with recruits. They DO end up being charged and the appropriate actions being taken against them. The types of things that these folks commonly are charged with don't even get close to what would be considered torture. At the same time, once in a while, people do die.

Just because our folks are submitting to these types of things doesn't necessarily logically extend that the practices are not torture.

dogjudge
I still stand on my argument. The only reason you don't see my point is because not enough Americans have been killed yet. Wait until a city gets smoke checked then watch the attitude change.

TORTURE, that’s what!!!


Torture has been a tool of war for thousands of years. In the beginning they threw stones, then someone made a slingshot. Someone found that if they put a wall around a town, the stones and slingshots were on no value.

Someone then designed a catapult that could cast large stones over the wall, but they used pots of boiling oil to dump on anyone trying to climb the wall. Then the catapults got bigger, and the wall was no longer much value, so neither were the pots of oil.

When the soldiers met on the open field, bows and arrows, spears and swords were the weapon of choice, until someone invented the gun, so there went the bows, spears, and swords.

Next came balloons that could float over the city and drop bombs, then airplanes with bombs that could dissolve a city, and on and on, but you get the idea.

Stones, sling shots, catapults, boiling oil, bow and arrow, spears, swords, and on and on.

Which weapon was the first to be invented, and has supplied needed information for thousands of years, and has not been replaced with any newer, advanced weapon.

TORTURE, that’s what!!!

Semper fi/par
Easy response.

Nazi Germany and WW II.

People went to jail and were executed for behavior considered unacceptable. Taking orders from superiors was never considered a justification for committing these acts.

Hopefully, your assessment about what would happen in retaliation to another attack is wrong.

For now, this is the exact type of thing that many are trying to fight against.

Nazi Germany
They were the losers. You only become a war criminal when your side loses. Allied forces committed plenty of war crimes in WW2. They did not go on trial because they won. They bombed Dresdin just to kill civilians. There was no military targets. The Army Air Corps bombed Japanese cities with fire bombs because they knew it would do the most collateral damage. Those Air Crews did not come up on any charges for their atrocities. The Manhatten project that developed atomic weapons did not get charged for the bombing of Hiroshima or Nagasaki. All bombed knowing that civilians lived there. The orders issued to infantry to take no prisoners. No charges. Allied forces did what was necessary to win. Thats War. So you see it's not so easy. Do you win or lose.

dogjudge
I was in the military from 71-94 and I was waterboarded and I also administered it. Some of your best AF officers/pilots have been through something familiar to waterboarding.
I dont know why you would think that someone would do something to me for what I was instructed to do since your DRIVE BY MEDIA already tells the terrorist what is happening all the time. This is why I call you LIBS,
COWARDCRATS. No one has ever died from WATERBOARDING but they sure have DIED from TERRORIST ATTACKS and Waterboarding is what will same your SORRY ARSE of we ever get info on another attack to the COUNTRY. You Libs think that you are doing this country a favor by telling the enemy what we would do to them. so why dont you go back to your WATERBONGING and leave the security of this country to the people who really care about it.

dogjudge
Also what happened at ABU GRAB was HAZING I know because I did those things in college. You mean to tell me that you never had a set of PANTIES put on your face before, if you went to college you did. Most of those who got in trouble were also what the Military calls WEEKEND WORRIORS/National Guardsmen or RESERVES not active duty. If you had followed any of the trials you would have found out that the reason why they did allot of those stupid things was to take pictures back home to bragg and make fun about it. They thought it would be cool to show off to their friends.

RAMBO IS A MOVIE TERRORISM IS FOR REAL. SO SUCK IT UP AND MOVE ON. DOGFUDGE

Chuck
You apparently have a whole lot of anger directed at the wrong people. People who are on the side of the US. Unfortunately, you feel that even those folks are for your ideas, or against your ideas.

The ideas that you've expressed here would put you in jail, if you were still in the service.

Have a great day!

Please
Dogjude go away, the Supreme Courts havent even stated that WATERBOARDING is illegal. Also my rage is directed at the same people who would rather see this COUNTRY DEFEATED just because they hate GEORGE BUSH now you can spew all the garbage you want but we (REPS) know who the enemy is and it is AMONGST US NOW. Why would someone care what is done to a TERRORIST who has KILLED AMERICANS.

chuck
I care what is done to terrorists. I think they should get the firing squad they so richly deserve. Rub a ham on them first.

Dogjudus
First you have to take into account that dog is from the aclu. You know the aclu those folks who do all in their power to undermine America and our way of life. I would board dog just to get him to scream the truth about the aclus plot to help turn our great country over to the socialist.


Amazing Knowlege
Zippidty Do Da!
Just how do you know that Waterboarding and probably other forms of Torture was used as a LAST RESORT to obtain what information.
Please document your source and list the information obtained (BOTH THE STUFF THAT WAS FACTUAL and the STUFF that was hokey as a 3 dollar bill.

Observation
This is interesting. I happened to pick up a second-hand paperback which I'm now reading, a novel that starts out with Jews in Spain during the Inquisition. A major character is tortured as the Grand Inquisitor tries to extract information from her. The torture that is described in detail is "the water torture". It seems to be essentially the same thing as water-boarding. The book was written in 1979---there is no way this is any kind of political statement about the Bush II administration. The practice is described as an example of the sadistic torture that was used in the Spanish Inquisition. No matter how ambitiously the right-wingers now try to diminish water-boarding (on another thread this week it was laughingly called "a swirlie"), it clearly is torture. If we torture our prisoners, then we have no right to claim moral superiority in any regard at all. Our national honor has already been stained; we need to discontinue this practice immediately.

To chuck re "It works"
I was a child during World War II but I remember hearing about some of the tortures used by the Japanese on our prisoners: 1) A prisoner was secured to a pump with his mouth over the spout, and endless amounts of water were pumped into him. 2) The prisoner's fingernails were pulled out using pliers. More recently, an Italian friend has told me what Mussolini's people did to a person they wished to persuade---they would force a large dose of castor oil down his throat then shut him up in a small cell with no toilet.

To use your word, these tortures "worked". But some practices are so vile that decent people don't use them. It is not morally OK to do something just because it "works". If I kidnap your daughter and bury her underground in a box while demanding ransom from you, that might "work". Last year I read in my local paper about somebody on the wrong side of town who kept a stun gun handy and gave her newborn infant a shock from across the room every time he woke up crying during the night. That "worked" like a charm: it silenced the baby. Whether a thing "works" cannot be our standard.

Screw them ALL
Screw the ACLU, screw the Democrats, screw the "runaway" judges, and screw our traitorous media!
Somethings are simply NOT revealed and should NOT be revealed, and/or debated, until after a war is won. WE ARE engaged in a war, a struggle against an ancient mentality embedded in ignorant fanatics who desire nothing more than to bring about the orthodoxy of their "cult" religion, Islam, which calls for, nay DEMANDS, that ALL peoples of this earth embrace the dreams and schemes of Mohammed!
You don't win with a divided population and a divided population is exactly what the Democrats and their media lackeys have desired and yet desire. Oh, and it is not only over the issue of the WOT that the LIBERALS (now calling themselves "progressives"...TR is spinning in his grave) seek to weaken this nation through divisions; they seek the weakening of the public wiil in order to enslave the US people in servitude to an all powerful Federal government...you slaves work and send your hard earned wages to the Federal government and in its infinite and benevolent wisdom it will redistribute the funds to everyone in support from craddle to grave; of course, the government will eventually tell you where to work, in what line of work to toil, and where to live...pssst...the Soviet/Communist system was a miserable failure, and the Communist Chinese "warlords" would not be around today absent the loosening of the yokes upon their multitudes.
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