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Thursday, April 02, 2009
Steve Chapman :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama's Losing Bet on Detroit
by Steve Chapman
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If you had bought $1,000 worth of General Motors stock in 2000, your holdings would now be worth less than $40, for a loss of 96 percent. You could have made worse investments in that period -- with Bernard Madoff, for one -- but not many.

So anyone looking to participate in a viable business would look a lot of other places before they would look there. But the United States government thinks GM might just be a really smart place to put its money.

In its final weeks, the Bush administration lent the automaker $13.4 billion, along with $4 billion for Chrysler. On Monday, President Obama gave GM 60 days to come up with a better plan before deciding whether to sink more cash into it. But he placed a large bet on its survival by promising to guarantee all GM and Chrysler vehicle warranties.

He also held out a shimmering vision of the Big Rock Candy Mountain, expressing faith that his policies can lead to "a 21st-century auto industry that is creating new jobs, unleashing new prosperity, and manufacturing the fuel-efficient cars and trucks that will carry us towards an energy-independent future."

Truth is, that industry already exists. The Big Three just don't happen to be a part of it. The United States has robust, job-creating, fuel-efficient automakers, in the form of companies like Toyota, Honda and Subaru.

But they don't count in the eyes of this president, presumably because their employees don't belong to the United Auto Workers union. So he apparently couldn't care less how much they resemble what he fantasizes GM and Chrysler will soon become.

And a fantasy it is. On what basis could anyone expect GM or Chrysler to achieve greatness? It's like expecting a glacier to appear in Phoenix. Just because it happened a long time ago doesn't mean it's going to happen again anytime soon, if ever.

At one time, GM accounted for 60 percent of the cars sold in America, but its market share has fallen to 22 percent. It has lost money for four straight years, including a staggering $31 billion in 2008, and things are only getting worse. Sales in February 2009 were less than half what they were in February 2008.

Chrysler has not exactly set the world on fire either. It torched $8 billion last year. Some of its investors now value their stakes at pennies on the dollar -- or nothing. Its U.S. sales have plunged by nearly half over the last decade. In this year's Consumer Reports rankings of the 10 worst cars, seven are GM or Chrysler products.

The administration's own industry task force doesn't share Obama's unbounded optimism. In a report released this week, it noted that GM's supposed salvation, the plug-in hybrid Chevrolet Volt, "will likely be too expensive to be commercially successful in the short term."

It ridiculed GM's own cheery forecast, which assumes rising profits "despite a severely distressed market, lingering consumer quality perceptions and an increase in smaller vehicles (where the company has previously struggled to maintain pricing power)." Even under generous assumptions, it said, GM would keep losing money.

Given all these sad tidings, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that the only hope is bankruptcy court -- where it could shed some of its obligations by stiffing creditors and rewriting union contracts. Obama seems to think the auto industry is too important to be subjected to such an indignity, though he has not ruled it out.

But to survive in the long run, a company has to provide consumers with products they want at a price that yields healthy profits. That is exactly what GM, like Chrysler, has consistently been unable to do.

In those circumstances, neither bankruptcy nor any other course offers a plausible route to prosperity. Plausibility, however, is not a consideration among politicians determined to keep the Big Three in business no matter what.

In recent months, we've been told that ambitious federal action is needed in the financial sector because unregulated commerce produced disastrously perverse results. But in the auto industry, competition has functioned reliably to reward sound companies and penalize bad ones. So clearly, there are only two occasions for massive government intervention: when the market fails, and when it works.

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Steve Chapman is a columnist and editorial writer for the Chicago Tribune.
 
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The fallacy of bankruptcy stigma
preventing folks from buying cars is going to ba an excuse to have a special bankruptcy so the UAW is not injured. Truth be told, folks would rather not purchase anything built by UAW. The Union is blamed for the financial crush by many would be purchasers.

Chrystler never did learn to build a good car comprable to foreigh design.

Battery powered cars are OK but no particular savings when it comes time to replace those batteries.

The new marketing technique of payment rebates in the event of job loss was copied from a Korean car. Obama has no business in this game as he has a major conflict of interest. The UAW.

Don Jones
TownhallPlus.com

Government bailout of
failing industry always fails, except in those rare cases when there is a temporary cash flow problem and a viable profuct. GM and Chrysler suffer from unfunded pension entitlements. These are not temprary and will get worse. Trying to save jobs with taspayer money is crazy because it is counter-productive. Bankruptcy is the answer. No jobs would be lost, because the same number of cars will be sold, thus manufactured. They just wouldn't be manufactured by GM. The jobs would move to Honda and Toyota in Alabama(?) or Kentucky or wherever those plants are. Maybe a few people would wise up and learn if one is going to be greedy, its best to be smart about it and not kill the golden goose. The big danger to us all is that America is in the same shape as GM. The unfunded entitlements of social security and medicare/medicaid are piling up. When the bill comes due, we are bankrupt. Dumbo says pretty things, but you can't take golden promises to the grocery store. And we will need wheelbarrows to take "money".

Bailout cont'd
But look on the bright side. The bankruptcy of the Weimar Republic canceled the war reparation payments leveled on Germany by the winners of WW1. Likewise, when the dollar approaches worthlessness, our government can pay off all those loans we owe to the Chinese, socail security payments will be a breeze. Of course, the problem will be whether to buy a ham sandwich and a beer, or two beers with that "guaranteed check". I figure i'll be paying off my mortgages with pocket change in a couple years.

Why not break it up?
If a company is too big to fail, isn't it too big to exist?

The government broke up AT&T when it was a government-regulated monopoly, so -- even though it's anything but a monopoly -- why not break up GM?

Instead of just forking over money, a bankruptcy with government oversight would have allowed them to sell off successful divisions, close down the unsuccessful ones, and end the era of the union having a stranglehold on a giant corporation. The UAW would have to renegotiate contracts with many smaller companies instead.

And while we're at it, let's break up a few other companies that are "too big to fail," starting with AIG. And some banks like B of A and Citigroup. Let's go back to the time before we had interstate banking, when banks were small and state-chartered. That system worked well for a hundred years, and then someone decided every town in America needed a B of A.

Don't worry
Howie Long's ad campaign will save GM--not. Not any more than the traitor Mellencamp's xenophobic "Our Country" campaign.

We are not happy until You are not happy
That is the motto of Air Canada, who are facing bankruptcy for the second time -- not having learned anything from the first round -- because the government of Canada guarantees that they do not have to care about what the customers want and they make it clear to such customers they have left, by charging for everything including pillows and blankets, and treating every customer request with disdain. (My own favourite AC story is the day I checked in and found out the plane was going to be two hours late departing and phoned Mama from the gate -- thus imparting this news for the first time to the people already at the gate waiting. We all ended up flying home on Delta.)

A company that is protected from its own stupidity by a benevolent government that believes it exists for some reason other than to satisfy the customers and sell product, is a company that trades solely in arrogance and unkept promises. Air Canada proves that every day.

You know
GM already makes a bunch of fuel efficient vehicles and that isn't working for them. Clearly that isn't the only issue. They also have quality brands like Cadillac and Buick. They also sell well overseas. I'm thinking their problems are a combination of their in-house entitlement obligations and U.S. government meddling in what they can and can't build.

I would also add American manufacturers have a good reputation when it comes to trucks and SUV's and that many people still buy and use those -- the idea that because small car sales were up for a couple of quarters when gas prices rose suggests there is no need for larger vehicles is idiotic. I undersstand that those who live in large cities and inner suburbs see lots of small cars. But where I live (regional population about 350,000) the vast majority of vehicles are trucks, vans, and SUV's).

My Tingless Leg Syndrome

It seems to me everyday that the Goobermint says one thing and does another is April Fool's Day!

I have for Politicians:

Who read the Constitution?

Who read a bill before passing or signing it?

Who actually PAY taxes?

Who keep campaign promises?

Who actually cuts both the budget and deficit?

Who don't interfere in private enterprise?


My leg is tingling in hope for ONE man or woman to do the right thing for a change!


the appropriate rap on GM and Chrysler
Hello--Ford didn't take a government hand-out. Can someone please indicate what they are doing right and if we can expect them to survive and prosper. Ford is a no BS company and deserves kudos
grace ann

The almighty Messiah
Obama in all his worldliness believes that he can change the world, he said so. Well guess what I'm not buying it Mr. Messiah. As far as I'm concerned you and Mechelle might as well stay over there in Europa and dont bother coming back...

Robert
I "Hope" your "Stupid" thoughts aren't meant to be shared by everyone. The President and First Lady have done nothing to earn your "Hatred". If you know what I know you better "Pray" that they not only return but with many gifts. You give "Dumb As" a whole new meaning.

HENRY FORD HAD IT RIGHT

.....He predicted that the unions would ruin his company and he held out as long as he could ...

.....Combine union excesses, weak management, and massive government interference and the American Auto Industry was infected with a terminal disease and to a long and lingering death ...

.....OBAMBI efforts to revive this zombie are nothing more than a scheme to use taxpayer money to save the UAW ...anyone who believes otherwise is a fool .....COLOSSUS

Killer
How can we miss you if you won't go away?

Killer in GA
I dont hate Obambi (Your Messiah). I just dont like him or follow him like a Mindless Zombie such as yourself. You and the Mindless who voted for this man boy and Believe his slogans "Hope and change" and "We are the ones we have been waiting for" are truly pathetic and in need of some serious de-programing. You my friend are seriously ate with the Dumbas. You might first try using your real name if you were given one by your parents, then again your parents might of just given you up as an Orphan at Birth.

Real Progress
If Obama wants real progress in the auto industry mess he should get Ron Gettlefinger(UAW Pres) to step down. LOL

THE PUBLIC PREFERS BIG CARS

.....But government, through its energy policy of GREEN at any cost, is going to force the public into small, expensive, inneficient mini-cars, by refusing to use our own natural resources of oil and gas ...

.....Every year our government puts more and more oil rich federal land off limits to developers ....the goal is to drive gas prices up to $4.00 a gallons or more to force car buyers into smaller cars ...

.....We are being manipulated like sock puppets by our government ...we have only two choices ...we can give in like good little citizens and live the lives that our government decides for us ...or we can rise up and throw the bums out and take control of our government back .....COLOSSUS

The Two Faces!!!
There is no doubt how this Economic Crisis has effected Major Corporations,But to Slam GM makes you to be an udder fool when as many have said and seen the effect on Honda,Toyota,Volkswagen Ect... and to say that GM is the fall guy for bad business displays either that you are Ignorant or just Stupid. The fact that you and so many have memories that reach your attention spans just points out that, one you don't know what the hell your talking about as usual. Go back and look at the cars that from the early to mid 70's on GM ,Ford,Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth, American Motors have built cars that equal any Foreign brand when it comes to Gas mileage. All the American Manufactures went through down sizing before from 1978 through the late 80's,even trucks were down sized, though we still had full sized trucks for heavy work. But going into the 90's Americans started wanting Big again and we went through the SUV craze that made for mid to large sized Vehicles again with no regard to gas Mileage. But people rarely look back when it comes to finding out that when we were producing these types of Vehicles weather American or Foreign nobody cared about gas because prices were not a huge part of the equation, But all of a sudden when gas prices spiked everybody was on the Slam American Auto Manufactures for gas guzzlers, But the truth is Nissan,Toyota, Honda when it came to Big Trucks or SUV'S had very poor gas mileage and in some cases much worse than the American made Trucks/SUV"s. So really the down fall that has people scrambling around has been made of our own greed for excess and that to say that our Car Manufactures should be blamed is ludicrous. It sounds like Typical finger pointing by Liberals who are stuck with a big SUV. Its also funny that small cars in the 70's & 80's got better mileage than Cars now.

Obama's Losing Bet on Detroit
If you bought 4,000 cans of beer at $1 per can and returned them for deposit you'd have made
$200. Better investment

$.02
Mr. Chapman apparently misses the fundamental aspect of Obama’s activities.

This is not about a thriving, prosperous auto industry; Obama doesn’t care whether the auto industry lives or dies let alone whether it achieves greatness. This is all about getting control of the means of production. GM and Chrysler just happened to be the first to go (unwittingly), hat in hand, to “the one” for assistance. Now Obama has control of a good portion of the means of production in this country… more are certain to come into his grip.

Obama’s desire is to be the “organizer” of a planned society. Controlling the banking and manufacturing industries is foundational in achieving that goal.

Pistol-Lulu-Denise-USVet-BDoc-Clyde-GAnn
and many others.

GM has released a photo of the prototype for its new Obamamobile.

http://www.rhoadescar.com/jumpshow.htm

Repeating a Bald Faced Lie..
hogrider states:

"This is all about getting control of the means of production. GM and Chrysler just happened to be the first to go (unwittingly), hat in hand, to “the one” for assistance. Now Obama has control of a good portion of the means of production in this country… more are certain to come into his grip.

Obama’s desire is to be the “organizer” of a planned society. Controlling the banking and manufacturing industries is foundational in achieving that goal."

This is without a doubt a outreageous bald faced lie repeated by the far right wing fringe in an attempt at fearmongering among the masses.
It pleads total ignorance to the history of bailouts in the u.s. Mr. Hogrider do your homework for you keep repeating and dispensing such ludicrous false propaganda.

Georgetwin
Rhoades Car or Road Scar? LOL


While it probably meets Uncle Sams emissions controls (except in CA after eating a double hot bean burrito) it might still be lacking in regulatory safety standards such as side impact air bags and stability traction control.

I wonder if it comes in canary yellow?

a
I am sure GM is well aware of it's slothlike abilities to adjust to their shrinking marketshare. Whining union heads tend to put up a fuss when divisions are threatened into extinction.

l;ithium dangle
so the 24/7/365 black victim shows up to post the talking points his masters and betters at moveon tell him to post.

Odd how those lies you fully buy into concerning your black messiah and false god are accepted without question.

But to date there is no proof of any intelligence from flap ears. There is no proof he has a modicum of knowledge of history or economics. But there is the proof that he is a full blown socialist determined to remake america into the third world toliet he envisions with himself in charge.

But that won't bother you. A welfare loser like you will feel right at home living in poverty with your monthly handouts for ribs and 40 0z bottles of malt liquor.

But what are you going to do when flap ears destroys those paying taxes and your handouts end.

But then you can start your next career, dumpster diver

the auto dilemma
seems flap ears, the socialist messiah is confronted with as serious dilemma. Does he save the auto industry or does he save the union?

With his desire to destroy capitalism it seems flap ears has decided he is now qualified to be the leading ceo of all of america. With no actual work experience and no administrative knowledge flap ears thinks he understands everything and knows better than all of america what is best for the country.

But it seems all that matters is that he and his horse faced loser wife, living large while the trolls sing of their un dying love is all that matters.

But in a throwback to the old days, flap ears will turn detroit into a company town, where ceo messiah, owns all the homes, and allows the workers to live in gov't owned housing and use their pay vouchers to shop at the companies goodwill stores and eat at the companies soup kitchens.

T
A "Fool" never "Changes",it is the nature of being the "Fool". You have no Clue of the times in which you live. But you will!

GM
Don't sell GM short. They do make some great cars, even efficient once. And they normally sell a lot of them. Indeed were it not for the UAW sucking the life blood out of the enterprise in return for substandard menial labor, hence low quality, the company would do very, very well. Witness their success in China and South America. The bottom line is that UAW must go, and that can only be accomplished through a bankruptcy. I hold some GM bonds and I will not voluntarily exchange them for equity unless UAW is out!!!

killer the clown
so the hahvad grad with his delusion of those attending that ivy league bastion of knowledge all have iq's in excess of 160 shows up to blather once again.

Seems odd that one of the elites doesn't have a more suitable nickname of skippy or old swimmer like fellow alumnus kennedy.

But killer does prove no correlation between iq and common sense.

I have never understood why
folks badmouth American built automobiles.

I've had at least one dozen new cars and trucks built by all three major companies and never had one mite of problems. I've bought used cars when I was a poor, young sailor that looked like the were on their last legs and drove them for two-three years with only minor repairs.

I rented a 2007 Pontiac wtih around 2000 miles on it when I was working in WVa. It had almost 11,000 on it when I left the state. I have never owned an automobile that hung on curves so well, not even my wife's corvette. It had the power and pickup of a sports car. Only thing wrong was it had a bad blind spot from the rear view mirror. I would have bought one the next year had I not had a nearly new Silverado, Z-71.

Bought a Toyota in the middle 'Seventies. It lasted three years to the month, then door panels came loose as did the dash and it was impossible to keep the wheels in line. The car then had less than 60K best I recall and had always had recommended maintenance.

I rode in lots of top-of-the-line foreign automobiles during my years in Europe. I thought they all rode as rough as a horse drawn road wagon. Wife's Gran Marquis rode a lot smoother.

I have a chore for you,
please honestly try it.

The next time you go for a drive, a block, a mile, an hour, look at all the cars you can look at while driving safely, and let me know if you ever find a car exactly like yours, unless you are at a car dealer's or a rental car lot.

Henry Ford is praised for inventing the assembly line, and an assembly line is intended to build copies of exactly, or almost exactly the same product.

Now I have worked on assembly lines building Diesel Engines, and at another time, building kitchen stoves. Let me assure you that when the exact same product is being built, twice the number of products will be built in the same time, and in the space and investment needed to build if that line tries to build a dozen different items.

I don't remember the exact details, but some years ago I read a story that said GM could build hundreds of thousands of different vehicles in any one year. Just imagine the cost of a car, when millions are the same, rather than millions being different.

I can remember our 4-door 1927 Buick that could hold a family of 8 with no problem. Between the front and back seat was room for a bench for 2 children, and the back seat held 4, easily. Every year we drove from PA to Ind, with luggage on the rear bumper, on the roof, and bolted on the running board. So you can see our Buick looked different from others.

When the brakes on our 1927 Buick overheated as we crossed mountains in Pennsylvania, the daughters were of no help at all, but the boys did help cool the brakes, a little!


jim
I could see where the girls might have a problem helping with cooling the brakes. . .

My best friend's dad used what was called lamp oil to run an old Chrysler during WW II when gas was rationed. He cut the oil with gas and drove the car over 20 miles to work every day. He said he had to stop to cool the engine block when he got to the top of one big hill about three quarters of the way to work. I don't recall when he traded that car off, but it was after WW II.

I never seen any automobiles from the 'Twenties, but there were hells of cars left over from the 'Thirties when I was a kid in WVa. I remember all as being roomy and confortable -- except the trucks, which were not made for comfort.

One really nice car was the Terraplane(sp) It even had small flower pots between the doors and a soft cream colored upholstery. Think I only ever seen two of these.

You want smaller cars.
If you understood the basics, that four cylinder engines get better milage than larger engines and that lighter cars show better mileage on the Federal Test Schedule, then you would understand why the imports you admire get better mileage. Even then, they don't get much better mileage. A Ford Mustang and a Chevy Camaro, muscle cars, get 30 mpg which is better than almost all of the assembled-in-USA imports you like. Another bugger is that people like American pickups because they are better designed. The imports you like are not even imported as pickups because they can skirt the tax laws. They are mostly small and lighter and have four cylinder engines, so mileage is higher than full sized pickups. Do you want to deny people who need a full size pickup the right to buy one? the one they want? one designed in Detroit?
I am an automotive engineer by education and it is my feeling that the Japanese have never built a pickup that is as good as any made in America. They know how to make a good Diesel engine though; I wish they would import those. Even better, I wish we could buy the German, TDI engine without having to buy the German car. Import those, they are the best engine made in the world today, or ever.

Sooner or Later?
The Big Three have, effectively, been bankrupt for years. Had future pension and health care costs been funded annually, the idiocy of management’s surrender to the UAW would have been obvious. The monthly “bailout” payments of $3 BILLION simply to stave off the bankruptcy that must ultimately occur is hopeless. Bush didn’t have the balls to refuse to begin the charade in December. Let’s see how long Obama’s dedication to the UAW lasts. Unfortunately, it may be longer than our great nation can afford.

Ken
I'd take a Tundra over my Ram 1500 (made in Mexico) any day of the week. Next truck will be the Tundra or the Titan.

"Japanese have never built a pickup that is as good as any made in America."

Motor Trend declared the 2008 Tundra the best pickup in the US. Trailer Boats voted it the best Tow Vehicle of the Year in 2007 and Truckin' Magazine also voted it the best truck of the year in 2008. Canadian Driver voted it the best 1/2 ton truck. So obviously there are those that don't share your opinion.

Toyota doesn't build a 3/4 truck like Dodge or Ford or GM, but most people don't drive 3/4 ton pickups either.

Grace Ann
Ford revamped their quality control to such an extent that they were comparable to Japanese quality--the days of Found on the Road Dead and Fix or Repair Daily were over. They built cars people wanted.

Chrysler--terrible service, with little else to offer outside their big gas guzzlering trucks and SUVs. Price is an issue too. How many can afford to pay 45,000 for a new Dodge 2500?


US Vet
"Go back and look at the cars that from the early to mid 70's on GM ,Ford,Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth, American Motors have built cars that equal any Foreign brand when it comes to Gas mileage."

American cars in the 1970s basically were crap. They were big, ugly, gas guzzlers and the Japanese came in and ate their lunch in the market share game. The head of GM at the time (early 1970s) said that no "real" American would buy a Japanese car--guess they proved him wrong didn't they?

Japan's TQM (invented by an American--William Edwards Deming)and building cars Americans would actually buy killed the so-called US automakers. What exciting car did the US have in the 1970s outside the Mustang? The Aries K? The Impala or better yet the Vega and Nova? Remember what people said Ford stood for?

And another thing? "our Car Manufactures?" The "Big-Three" are no more American than Toyota. They are multinational corporations which try--and failing at this point--to add value to their company and stockholders. They have no loyality to any state, only to profit. GM closed plants in the US and built news ones in Mexico just as Toyota went over 10 years before it built a plant again in Japan--building new ones in the US, Thailand and elsewhere.

domestic autos
I am a car guy...have owned mostly domestic cars and trucks...also road race a ford mustang. The problem is one of perception...it is going to be hard to get folks to try an american car but if they look at "Consumer Reports" they may be pleasantly surprised with the varity of domestics on their best buy lists. Bottom line...I think its time give our domestic industry a break and buy american. I will concede the point that the premium japanese cars are excellent however please note that most of the BMW,Audi and Mercedes models are leased not purchased...there is a reason for that, high maintenance costs.

Seadog
"I have never understood why
folks badmouth American built automobiles."

You sure your American automobile is American built? Many GM products are made in Canada and Dodge builds many of its trucks in Mexico.

The poor quality of "American" cars is well known. This has changed at Ford, but Chrysler still builds crap. I've had to rebuild the trans in a Plymouth Neon twice and it has less than 80,000 miles. And a series of problems with a Dodge 1500 from the power steering, water pumps, a pump in the trans, and on and on. Well since Fiat was once said to stand for "Fix it Again Tony," it is buying a stake in a company that has a similar track record in quality.

As for Toyota, this isn't the 1970s.

Don
"I think its time give our domestic industry a break and buy american."

They aren't American, they are multinationals. And buying a product simply because it is "American" is economically stupid. You owe the "American" car companies nothing. If they produce a car that is comparable in quality and price to "foreign" cars, you should buy it. If they don't, you shouldn't. A product could be made on pluto by little furry creatures from Alpha Centari as far as I care.

There are some 17 or so car makers in the American market today--that is probably way too many. Some are going to fail. In the 1960s there was 7 major (American) car makers in the US market--that went to 4 and then to 3, if it goes to 2 or to 1 or to none, it will not be the end of the world.

You are right on the Europeans though. They build even worse cars than the Big Three do.

What a Smoke Screen
I have had 45+ years associated with the Auto Industry. Believe me, this entire fiasco with GM is based only on protecting the hundreds of thousands of retirees and their cradle to grave healthcare. If you think Gettlefinger cares a whit about the current workers, your drinking the kool aide. Everything the Union and their Dem allies do is to protect those retirees. The worst of the lot are the 30 and out people, many who are in their 50's and a decade from Medicare. These ex-employees and their families have the very best healthcare insurance available, all paid by GM.

The Union will never, never, never negotiate on those expensive healthcare benefits. They do not fear bankruptcy because they believe that our new Socialist Government will continue to bail them out. GM's per vehicle cost problems could be quickly solved by establishing a realistic healthcare beneift for those retirees not yet eligible for Medicare. But, the Union will never, never, never take even one step toward agreement on a realistic retiree healthcare benefit including co payments and resdtrictions equal to other common plans.

Why blame only the car companies?
In the real world of a capital market, some companies would produce one entry in market for those consumers that prefer a product one way, and other companies would come along to produce products for consumer with other requirements. Our government has forced the American companies, through, CAFE standards, to produce cars for the whole range of customers. This forces them to manufacture cars that are unprofitable due to their cost structures. If GM and Chrysler were allow to just make the cars they can do well, then they would be kings of the SUV part of the market and could be profitable. The Japanese carmakers in American could serve the rest. Our government meddling in the market is as much to blame for this crisis and anything Detroit did or did not do.

Poor Traitorous Rethugs
As of today, the DOW, NASDAQ and S&P 500 are all higher than they were on January 20th.

..................Jan. 20.....Today
DOW.............7949......8057
NASDAQ......1440.......1620
S&P 500.........805.........843

Obama approval at 66%
Michelle @ 76%

God, you people LOSE again!

Barry
Does not the non-"American" companies in the US also have to abide by the CAFE standards and are they asking for a bailout and rushing toward the cliffs of extinction?

Personally, I think there should be no CAFE standards. If you want to build a car-tank that gets 15 gallons to the mile, great! More power to you and if people are willing to buy it and spend the money for the gas--GREAT!

But don't blame the Big Three's problems on CAFE and the Congress.


Stock market vs unemployment rates
Stocks may not be the best measure of a country's economic health. Many of our large multinational corps get more than half of their revenues/profits from overseas. They can also shift operations overseas if tax laws become onerous. Statewide and national unemployment figures are bordered and boundaried. The county I grew up in is nearing 20% unemployment. How do you think the unemployed are feeling about the DOW being up or down 100 points. It is in the Socialist State of Oregon. I wonder what the Socialist State of Wisconsin's unemployment rate is? Plus good old Lou chose inauguration day vs election day as his baseline. Money started running from the market on that day in fear of socialism. You deserve the politicians that you elect. When two or three cities have two or three million die in a mass fatality attack we can all talk about how socialism kept us safe.

Lou
You surely don't believe Obama's massive spending had anything to do with the recent stock market surge. Today's market surge was a reflection of Congress finally ending the Mark to Market accounting rules, something the Democrats demanded be implemented after the Enron scandal.

Stock Market volaltility (it has oscillated about 6000 points since Jan 20th) isn't a sign of strength, but uncertainty. It could very well lose 500 points tomarrow when it absorbs the news that Obama will go along with an EU mandated World Financial Regulatory Czar.

So, since Obama has been sworn in, the Dow is up 98 point, or 0.1%. You should also point out that Obama has borrowed and his party has spent about $5 trillion since Jan 20th.

My bet is that this is a Fools Market. The institutional investors are desperate to regain some of thier lost capital, and are driving up share prices to lure suckers like you into rebuying stocks. When the market hits a certain point, the large institutional investors will sell off in a hurry, leaving the Obama Little Guy holding nothing but junk.

An investor would be smart to keep all or most of his portfolio in cash, or gold if he can afford it. You never know what Obama's teleprompter will spew forth next.

JPK -Nice try liar
If the market was down, you'd be the first one to blame it on Obama. Try being less transparent next time, and please, no more cut-and-paste.

Luo
You think the market is up? Tell that to the million of investors who are still sitting on 401ks and mutul funds worth 15% of thier 2007 value. If a net change of +0.1% is what you call an up market, you are deluded.

BTW, my previous post was my own. Just yesterday, the March unemployment figures came in. Over 700,000 jobs were lost. Now that is change we can all believe in.

Sell your GM's
First let me apologize to Ford Motor Co. for anything I might have said in my comments here on TH. I had grouped them with GM and Chrysler when speaking of auto companies that took "bail out" (union payoffs) monies. I was wrong. Ford did not take any of the "bail out" money, which is one thing they did right and I salute them for it. Having said that I will encourage everyone to;

1. sell their Chrysler and GM
2. not buy another Chrysler and GM

I know I will not be putting any money in their pockets. This is one way I can show my lack of support for Obama's Socialism/Fascism. Oddly enough this "bail out" was supposed to stop bankruptcy...now they are speaking of "controlled" bankruptcy. So now we not only have gumminit controlled auto industries, but gumminit controlled bankruptcy? Or is it simply that Obama wants to make sure that the UAW doesn't feel the pinch when these auto companies go under because of the UAW? It's just a political pay off.

The #1 Selling Car In Iraq & Lou

Is the Hummer.

Lou, Jr.: Of course the NYSE has increased. If the Goobermint took the toxic assets off of your books, your stocks would rise. Have you seen the increase of another ~600,000 in unemployment? Have you noticed that the overwhelming majority have seen no increase in their home values, an improvement in the economy, an approval of Obama's job performance, or in their pocketbooks?

Have you noticed Dodd's disapproval rating?

Are you aware that Murphy only holds a 25 vote margin over Tedesco even though 5000 Military absentee ballots have yet to be counted?

Did you notice that Obama broke his campaign promise, i.e., no one making less than $250K would may another penny in taxes? Who do you think pays the taxes on cigarettes in order to save the children through S-Chip?


Your posts have been a nice try, but Monica hasn't returned the cigar.

I love it, BO
telling Detroit how to build autos. He and his "commission" barely know where to use the key let alone look under the hood.

The unions AND management have destroyed GM. Lousy designs, poor quality for 30+ years, and greedy union bosses have converged to bring down this once-great company.

Sad day in America. Almost as sad as the day BO snookered the electorate.

Unions have been diminishing over the
past 20 years and it's obvious why..just look at GM and Chrysler..the Unions have destroyed them and now Maobama wants them to STOP making the only autos that have been their best sellers SUVS and Trucks..Unions inhibit growth and innovation..and all they do is whine..I am so Glad that I bought my Lincoln Navigator the other day..it has helped a REAL AMERICAN company that isn't taking bailout money..I'll be glad when they dissolve the bloodsucking Unions..it'll be ok for their Messiah will create welfare for those losers

The Issue
I am not a fan of BO whatsoever. However as a native Detroiter I can tell you that losing all those jobs will result in a meltdown of the Metro Detroit Area. There are thousands of retirees and employees who invest their pensions and paychecks into the economy everyday. With the loss of Chrysler and GM, the 10% unemployment in Michigan will skyrocket resulting into a worse situation than we are already in. There are cities and subdivisions in Metro Detroit that were built on middle class paychecks. If all those employees lose their jobs, talk about a bigger burden on the economy with all those unemployement checks. I think Obama is just trying to ensure that all those employed still have jobs.

Saying that BO has no room in forcing GM and Chrysler to develop smaller, fuel efficient vehicles. The trucks and SUVs are GM's and Chrysler's best selling brands. I own a Dodge Ram 1500 and can honestly say its one of the best vehicles I have ever owned. It currently has 190,000 miles and shows no signs of letting down anytime soon. Owning trucks and SUVs is a necessity in the cold ridden states in which Winter consumes most of the year. The real issue is that banks aren't letting anyone get a loan unless they have a credit score of 720. The whole car industry has seen sales numbers drop.

Whiners Keep On Whining

It started with the Great Society, then The Dumbing Down Of America, and continued with parents' giving their children everything even if it bankrupted the households. Now, we have the whiners, who have never done anything, demanding even more.

Take a look at the New York Time's slime of the clownish behavior in London during the G20:

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/protesters-fail -to-bring-down-global-capitalism-with-costumes-puppets/

And, guess what? The whiners are coming to New York City in September for the next G20 meeting.

Jeanne, you have targeted something no
one is thinking about. Many folks are not scared if the companies file bankrupty. They will still buy cars from and American manufacturer. However there are many more that hate the UAW and are more likely not to purchase if there is a Union around.

The best thing O can do is take the companies bankrupt and not save the unions. However they are going to do the opposite. They are going to let then go bankrupt on the rest of the creditors however they are going to preserve the UAW because Obama owes them big time for his election and hopeful re-election. BIG MISTAKE

Don Jones
TownhallPlus.com
Come see us.

Reply to Jeffrey #31
You state that Bush wanted to give Wall Street Billions-Maybe so- but a democrat Congress said noway. So you admit that Congress controls the purse! Very good. But the democrat controlled Congress owns the TARP1 plan. 212 democrats in Congress voted for it and 73 voted against it- 75% to 25%. 125 republicans voted for it and 123 voted against it - 50% /50%. The dems passed it , as well as all the other followon bailouts and they own them.
You also stated that all these problems happened on Bush's watch. The UAW controlled auto manufacturers were in trouble for the past 15 years. They were hemoraging money in good years and bad years. Even when the economy boomed from 2003 through 2007 the big 3 were burning through cash at a tremendous rate. So you are wrong on both points.

kenneth
exactly how many retrired workers are staying in detroit. Reports say any and all who can escape have done so.

But detroit's real problem is the dims and their mismanaged rule and reliance on a welfare state.

Saving the auto unions is on par with saving detroit. Both are parasites, the unions bleed the companies and the citizens have embraced the entitlements they demand but cannot earn.

But saving detroit will cost many more billions than saving the auto companies and in return what will be left, just another city where welfare thrives. The history of the past 30 years condemns detroit to it's own fate

The Genuine Cactushead
I am talking about Metro Detroit which includes the 4 surrounding counties of Wayne County where Detrot is located. Most of the employess of the big 3 do not even live in the parameters of the city of Detroit. Most employees make up the middle class which surrounds Detroit. As someone who lives in Arizona I would not expect you to know that.
I agree, the City Council of Detroit is a joke. The Dems in power there aren't even in touch with reality.

1978 Caddy was the greatest car ever,

Akagi Location: GA
Reply # 38
Date: Apr 2, 2009 - 1:58 PM EST

American cars in the 1970s basically were crap.

==========

Why of course they were, that's why my 1978 Caddy was the greatest car ever, for 350,000 miles and 22 years.

I rented nearly 1,000 cars in the '50s to the late '70s, and I wish I had kept a record of the problems with various models.

Would not take a Chrysler with more than 5,000 miles.

No Ford with over 10,000 miles.

No GM with over 20,000 miles.

Since I rented five or six times a month, they did what I wanted.

I know that I told my rental agency, that I would never take a Jap car for any reason. they were junk for sure.

I was well aware of the change in quality, and in gas mileage, as it went down, then up, then down again. I drove every size and model car you could imagine, but never a Jap car after the first few. Of course that means I don't know about them in the late '70s when I heard they were becoming OK.


Meanwhile, TRILLIONS to banks
There seems to be a lot of hatred directed toward American industrial companies who've received bailout money. What about the big banks and insurance companies, whose over-leveraging and outright scams are partially responsible for the collapse of our economy? Compared to them, GM and Chrysler's loans are chicken feed.

Here's a link to an excellent Letter to Bank of America ($150 billion in taxpayer money) by BOA customer and economist Don Cooper, followed by an excerpt.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/cooper/cooper11.html

"I will start you out with an introductory rate of 10% APR. I reserve the right, however, to change this rate at any time and without notification. Like right now. It just went up to 15%. See how that works? Now as you make repayments to the federal government I will calculate my share of those repayments and apply my entire share to your calculated accrued interest for the year first before I apply any of it to the principle. BTW, your APR just increased to 20%. This is in the best interest of BOA so that if you have other loan payments to make, you won't be overburdened by unmanageable principle payments to me."

Obama
I think Obama is spending too much. Just wanted to share an interesting Obama website that gives an informative, objective daily analysis of Barack Obama.
http://www.thebarackobamawatch.com/

THANK YOU
THE ONLY THING I AM GLAD PRESIDENT OBAMA HAVE DONE IS SLOWLY DESTROY THE UAW AND THE OTHER UNIONS THAT HAVE BRIBED CORPORATE AMERICA FOR MULTIPLE DECADES. OTHER THAN THAT OBAMA IS DESTROYING THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE, HE IS A HATE MONGER AND A RACIST PRACTICING BLACK GENOCIDE, OPPRESSION AND DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

FORD
I drive a 2001 Explorer Sport. I change the oil every 2500 miles and never had a problem with it. Never. 112000 miles and still going strong.

kenneth
believe or not I am a former resident of detroit, but that was back in the late 60's while I attended college there.

But I remember the good old days, when the auto industry was going full guns, the tigers were winning and motown was great music.

alas those days will never return and people like my sil are stuck owning homes they can never sell in neigborhoods that continue to decline

Coleman young was an unmitigated disaster that started detroit on it's path to failure and despair.

And I doubt there is any way to pull detroit out of the hole they have dug for themselves

Barry's bet
In view of the fact Barry O. is gambling with taxpayer's money instead of his own,it's a no-lose situation for him.

The True Story Of The Year!!!

I just returned from picking up my son at the airport; whereupon, I met the "Forrest Gump" of AirTran. This lovely, young African-American woman served as the meeter-greeter, counter agent, peanut provider and forgotten baggage representative for AirTran. When we were forced to meet last to discuss my son's lost baggage, she asked him to name some of the identifiable contents. He replied, among other things, that his luggage included an Ipod charger and speakers. And, how did this lovely woman respond? "That's too bad, you could have sent them to Queen Elizabeth II!"

What a wonderful treasure this young woman is and could she have responded is a more pointed manner?

Poor Traitorous Rethugs, Civil War
Former House speaker Newt Gingrich is warning of a third party mutiny in 2012 if Republicans don't figure out a way to shape up.

lolololol. Rethugs. The gift that keeps on giving.

Lou, Jr.
"Poor Traitorous Rethugs, Civil War
Former House speaker Newt Gingrich is warning of a third party mutiny in 2012 if Republicans don't figure out a way to shape up.

lolololol. Rethugs. The gift that keeps on giving."


Well, if they are so "poor", then they won't have to pay for your welfare, will they?

As a fiscally-conservative (Constitutionalist) Independent, I won't be paying either.


Prosperity?
That word should not appear in an article about Obama's politboro taking over GM. Talk about a 'zombie' carmaker? I envision UAW workers with Mikey Moore sized waistbands parked on idle machinery reading comic books until such time as Uncle Sugar gets the gear in place to produce the American equivalent of the Lada. Should happen about 2015?

A better scenario would be to have broken them up six months ago and sold off the pieces to sucessful car companies like the aforementioned overseas marques. As a sun belt GenXer who left the rust belt in the mid-80s, it is hard for me to summon an ounce of pity for Detroit.

Once again Conservatives are right

GM and Chrysler should have went into bankruptcy and emerged a stronger, viable car company.


CAFE standards the problem?
Some idiot wrote
"
Our government has forced the American companies, through, CAFE standards, to produce cars for the whole range of customers.
"
Well, last time i checked there are lots of SUV's and trucks sitting in dealers lots waiting for consumers. In fact the largest drop in sales is in large vehicles. So before you open your yap and regurgitate Rush's talking points, think.

"Bailouts" throwing good money after bad
Thanks for the column. To hear two new "parody" songs that also spoof the "bailouts", including those of the "Big Three", visit bailoutbluesband.com
"Musical" tea parties...

G.M.
Mans assininity to man is to replace a failed bookkeeper with another one.Business 101; consult with the greatest car man Lido Iacocca,first to gain your guidelines,then make a descision, its called a search team.The search team has to be experts in the field,not amatuers or failures.

As a Fiscal Conservative American
I find it truly frightening that anyone in our country would back the things that Obama did in Europe this week.He has blatantly coddled the Europeans fascist and said "America is to blame for the ills of the world" and we will make amends by giving taxpayers money to the IMF..creating monetary tax abuse to our Children and Grandchildren and then the loons in the Democrat party pass a 3+trillion dollar deficit in our country yesterday..burdening all 3 generations coming..He also gave away our Sovernity of our American Business away to the EU to control our salaries and to dictate which American company is viable or should be closed..this is a man standing with a white flag surrendering to the fascist saying "We give up" and will no longer be #1 in the world..we'll allow the world to dictate to us how we run our country..WELL I HAVE NEWS FOR MAOBAMA THE LOSER..fiscal Conservatives will stand up and say NO YOU CAN'T!

Chrysler
First off,I used to think autos[and most all other stuff]made in Japan was junky stuff. That was a bout 40 years ago. Now I think that most of their autos are of good quality,and another thing you can get parts for them going back 30 years or so,try that with Chrysler. I have a 92 Voyager,and 2 years ago I needed a fuel pump for it. Well guess what.the Chrysler parts man told me that they didn't even list most parts for anything THAT OLD. I had to settle for a poorly made after market pump that is noisey and I am wondering when it is going to quit on me.So much for Chrysler's crap. Do you think I am about to go out and buy a new van made by Chrysler? If you do then you most likely think that the earth is flat to! A Nissan parts man told me they, in most cases could go back 40 years,30 at least. I have a couple of Honda motor cycles ,that are around 35 years old and can get just about anything I need to fix them. All I can say is for the big three in Detroit.wake up and smell the coffee. But I most say this ,I like the Voyager Van for the way it is practical,etc,but I am sure there are others out there that are maybe even better.
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