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Thursday, February 26, 2009
Steve Chapman :: Townhall.com Columnist
Misstating the Constitution
by Steve Chapman
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Legend has it that Abraham Lincoln once posed a riddle: How many legs does a dog have if you count his tail as a leg? Came the answer, "Five." Replied Lincoln, "No, four. Counting a tail as a leg doesn't make it a leg."

Tell it to the sponsors of a bill to give the District of Columbia a full-fledged member of the House of Representatives. They resolutely dismiss the hurdle presented by the Constitution, which says, "The House of Representatives shall be composed of members chosen every second year by the people of the several states." Not "states and any other entities under federal control," but states, period.

The District is a unique enclave, set apart by the founders as the seat of national government. But for this purpose, the advocates assert, it is functionally no different from Maine or Montana.

The fantasy has captured many minds. The House passed a similar bill in 2007, Barack Obama has endorsed the idea and the Senate is expected to approve it this week. To maintain the current party balance, the House would expand from 435 members to 437, with Republican-dominated Utah getting an extra seat to match the one given to the Democratic-leaning District.

The bill is pretty much a sure thing to become law. But it won't banish the reality that the District is not a state and can't be treated as though it were.

Capital residents used to understand this vexing constraint. Decades ago, they wanted the right to vote in presidential elections. So they proposed and, in 1961, got a constitutional amendment to reach that end.

In 1978, Congress approved another amendment, this one to give the capital the same representation (a House member and two senators) it would have if it were a state. The measure died in 1985 after being approved by just 16 of the 38 states needed for ratification. In 1992, a similar amendment went nowhere.

The result has been intense frustration among Washington's inhabitants, who have to bear the same burdens as other Americans -- paying taxes, being subject to military conscription, enduring life without a secretary of commerce -- but have no say on such matters in Congress.

They are entitled to elect a House delegate who enjoys the same prerogatives as other members -- except the power to vote on floor legislation. Getting a House member who can't vote is like being invited to don a wet suit before entering the hot tub. District license plates carry a protest motto: "Taxation without representation."

Dissatisfied with the status quo but unable to alter it with a constitutional amendment, Washingtonians finally exclaimed: Amendment? We don't need no stinkin' amendment!

The rationale is that the Constitution, which provides for the capital, gives Congress the power "to exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District." Therefore, it may do just about anything it pleases, including give the District a vote in the House.

But the argument proves too much. The same provision gives the national legislature "like authority over all places purchased … for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock-yards and other needful buildings." If Congress can give the District a voting representative, it may give voting representatives to Fort Hood, the White Sands Missile Range and the Rock Island Arsenal. Which, obviously, it may not.

Washingtonians imagine they are victims of an injustice caused by a mere oversight, insisting that the framers never meant to disenfranchise them. Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University (location: Washington, D.C.), punctures this beguiling myth.

"The absence of a vote in Congress was clearly understood as a prominent characteristic of a federal district," he wrote last year in the George Washington Law Review. "Moreover, being a resident of the new capital city was viewed as compensation for the limitation. The fact that members would work, and generally reside, in the District gave the city sufficient attention in Congress."

A proposal by Alexander Hamilton to give the District congressional representation failed. So the founders knew what they were doing.

If Americans think they were mistaken on this point, the way to correct the error is a constitutional amendment. For the president and Congress to pretend none is needed betrays an alarming casualness about the Constitution. If they can look there and find the authority to give the District a seat in the House, they can probably also find a five-legged dog.

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Steve Chapman is a columnist and editorial writer for the Chicago Tribune.
 
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The constitution is clear...
on this subject. D.C. is not a state and is not entitled to voting members of Congress. That is what the constitution says. If Congress overrides the constitution then we are truly on our way to becoming a lawless county. The Consitution is primary law and should be treated as such.

The Quote
As I understand it, the quote about tails and legs is more properly attributed to Samuel Langhorne Clemens (Mark Twain, for those of you in Rio Linda!).

Virginius, Thanks for bringing that into
this discussion. Our Founding Fathers really understood the nature of man and the proclivity of governments to assume power.

Constitutions were America's gift to the world. The colonies disliked intensely British government, which made up the rules as they went along. The colonists and later the Republic drafted written Constitutions, contracts as it were, between the governed and the government.

If one bothers to read the words of our Founding Fathers, like Washington's Farewell Address that you just posted, it is abundantly clear that the government violated the terms of the contract. It therefore seems to me that we the people and the various states need to take it back.

From Federalist #45" "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State."
Does this argument in favor of the Constitution look anything like the US today? If not then the contract is null and void and we need a Constitutional Convention.

FlagTag
If the states call a convention then the states pick the delegates. There are more red states than blue states and I would argue it would be to the advantage of conservatives to do it.

Also the states ratify the changes in their legislatures taking it away from the Congress.

The Framers did provide this mechanism as part of the Constitution so why not use it?

Akagi, Wolfpack
I went to the UNR.

The president should ignore the rulings of the court. The problem is that the president bows as if SCOTUS has the final word and then implements their silliness. While you can say SCOTUS hasn't any power and that is true. But if the president puts the power of the executive behind their rulings, as he does, then they have that power.

With Gitmo, for example, Bush should have told them to pound sand. The court reached too far and Bush should have decided on his own that they were captured on the battlefield; that they were POWs; and that they weren't on US soil. Thus the court had no jurisdiction.

The remedy in that scenario is if the Congress -- not the courts -- the Congress, that branch of government closest to the people felt he acted unconstitutionally then they impeach him.

The court should have no say, or at a minimum they should be ignored if they stick their nose in it, and that's what makes me say they are not the preeminent branch of government and that's not what the Framers wanted.


Lenard, Inherently Good
doesn't mean that they don't make mistakes. God (can I still say this in America) made provisions for mistakes.

I believe therefore that those elected for the Convention will rise to the occasion.

The Federal Government -- all branches -- got us into the pickle we are in by essentially eviscerating the Constitution. I think the document is in fine shape, but our implementation is now so flawed that one no longer connect government to the Constitution. In essence the contract of the people with their government has become null and void because the government is not living up to its terms.

If the states call a convention then they take matters into their own hands and away from the Washington politicians. How is that any riskier than the path we have taken? In fact I see little risk in the path we are taking -- we will be a soft socialist country without a doubt. At least a convention provides us with hope.

Part of the brilliance of the document was to require great deliberation to change it. Let's look at the matter of DC for a moment. It is clear that the Framers intended a Federal Space apart from the states of the union. That is as clear as a bell. Their wishes were enshrined in the Constitution.

The liberals in Congress, wanting more power, simply ignore the document and pass a law overriding it. There was no deliberation; there was no respect for the document.

So what do we have that is worth preserving here? We can preserve the Constitution in a museum but we no longer follow the tenants given by the Founding Fathers. Let us not kid ourselves about that.

U.S. Constitution Obligatory Upon All
George Washington's "Farewell Address" of 1796 addresses the importance of the US Constitution:

"--Respect for its [the U.S. Constitution's] authority, compliance with its Laws, acquiessence in its measures, are duties enjoined by the maxims of true Liberty.--"

"The basis of our political system is the right of the people to make and to alter their Constitution of Government."

"But the Constitution, which at any time exists,
till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole People, is SACREDLY OBLIGATORY UPON ALL.--(emphasis added)"

"The very idea of the power and the right of the People to establish Government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established Government."

"All obstructions to the executions of the Laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, controul (sic), counteract, or awe the regular deliberations and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency."

"They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force--to put in the place of the delegated will of the nation, the WILL OF A PARTY (emphasis added); often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community;--"

"However combinations or associations of the above descriptions may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which CUNNING, AMBITIOUS, and UNPRINCIPLED (emphasis added) men [and women] will be enabled to subvert the Power of the People, and to usurp for themselves the reins of Government; destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.--"


Constitutional Convention NO!
The last constitutional convention we had was in 1787 and they completely rewrote the constitution. Not that the Articles of COnfederation were worth keeping, but do we want the US Constitution as we know it to go away forever?

There's a scene in the series "Jericho". After limited nuclear attacks on US cities by what might be shadow forces in the gov't, a reformer declares himself President and calls a constitution convention. One of the series regulars attends. He and a co-attendant are discussing how the 2nd Amendment went bye-bye with only 20 minutes of debate, to which he opines, well, does a repressive government really want its citizens able to protect themselves?

Yeah. That's the nature of constitutional conventions. Even states like Alaska who wrote a potential for a decadal constitutional convention into our constitution continually see the voters voting it down because constitutional conventions usually result in the destruction of the original constitution to be replaced by something quite different.

We need to get back to what the US Constitution from 1787 says; not rewrite it. NO to a Constitutional Convention!!!!!

Whole point of DC
DC was created so that no state would have the undue political power of having the national capital in its borders.

We've all seen how state capitals get undue treatment in some states. Example -- Alaska. Juneau is the 3rd largest city in the State, but the economy would dry up and blow away if we pulled the capital out of there. We the people voted for that 25 years ago, but the costs were too high. Now Juneau is complaining that Sarah allowed commissioners to put their offices in Anchorage, which (being on the mainland) is at least accessible to Alaskans. It's hurting Juneau. The legislators are considering laws to force Sarah to make the commissioners have offices in Juneau. Of course, there is that still valid vote of the people to move the capital to the mainland that is an obstacle for them.

Would we want that for DC -- for Delaware, VA and Maryland to be able to exert undue pressure on DC because the district is within their borders? I don't think so.

It should also be noted that DC residents weren't expected to spend their lives there. It was thought that you'd come to work for the government while "your man" was in office and then you'd head home when he did.

I know a few people who work in DC; none of them live in DC. They commute from Maryland and VA -- where, not too coincidentally, they can vote.

Whoisnt - commonwealth
There is no difference between a commonwealth and a state in the U.S. To Englightenment writers like Locke, Hobbes, and others the term "commonwealth" meant an organized political community. We call that a state today. Officially Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Virginia, and Massachusetts are all commonwealths. When they became part of the United States, they merely took the old form of state in their title.

Today, commonwealth also means a political unit having local autonomy but voluntarily united with the U.S. These are Puerto Rico and the Northern Mariana Islands. Alaska has, at various times, asked to be allowed to vote once more on statehood with the choice of commonwealth status being permitted this time, as it should have been in 1958.

Constitutional Convention? No!
elko.mike
Guess who would pick the delegates for a new convention. We have a lot more to lose by doing that than now.
The Naziwannabes could use a new convention to take ALL our rights away all at once, instead of a little at a time like they are trying now.

Mike
So it was Elko. How's Northeast Nevada these days?

So a Wolfpack or a Rebel fan?


echo (almost wrote Elko)
So used to typing that city.

The SCOTUS has no army, no police, it is totally dependent on the Congress for its budget. A president can simply ignore a decision by the courts--which Ike thought about doing in Brown v. Board (a decision he opposed)and Jackson did as well in Cherokee Nation v. Georgia.

The court depends on the executive to execute its decisions and it can simply select not to do so.

Government Monopoly Schools
Democrats and Democrat Lite Republicans never have let a little thing like the Constitution stop them before. Look at the unconstitutional (illegal) Federal Department of Education and Indoctrination and the No Child Left Behind Policy.

Goodness
Inherent goodness, if any, has been trumped by the desire to put other people's stuff in the mob's pockets and/or the desire to make everyone march in lockstep with the mob's vision of America. That is why the mob (50.01%) wanted to destroy the republic with its inconvenient rules and replace the constitutional republic with a "wonderful" democracy. Democracy allows three wolves and a sheep to vote on what to have for dinner.

Constitution?
In case everyone hasn't noticed that primary document of republican government is more observed in the breech by even those sworn to preserve and protect it.

elko.mike
Your statement concerning "the inherent goodness of man" is proven false by the need to correct a problem. If man is inherently good, why do so many in this country do wrong? If there were already so many intent on doing the right thing, they would already be doing it. Furthermore, why then would anyone have to be taught right and wrong, as it would be an intrinisic part of out nature to do good. You would do well to give your statements deeper probing.

Democrats
never have let a little thing like the consitution stop them before. Look at all the powers they have taken away from the states. They have always wanted power, and are never going to let this opportunity get by them.
Kirk

akagi
I disagree, that the states have to take it,but again that's dependent on the military leadership. That unfortunately is an unknown, but it sure would be good to have a general idea.

What to do about where we are
Hardly anyone likes where we find ourselves.

It seems here there is broad agreement that the Constitution isn't being followed. So we are making up the rules as we go along.

However, we are terrified of the alternative. Well what choices do we have?
a. Try to make it work
b. Have a revolution
c. Have a Constitutional Convention

The principles have been so fouled that we no longer have a set of guiding rules. The principles of government upon which this country was founded are but a fond memory. We don't like the status quo -- none of us. The only reason to continue in misery is that our misery is insufficient to spur action.

Have a revolution. Thomas Jefferson thought it a good idea. I personally think it a bit radical of a remedy for the current circumstances.

We can have a Constitutional Convention. According to the rules this is weighted by the states and not the population. Thus, smaller and more conservative states won't be overwhelmed. I believe in the inherent goodness of man and therefore the participants in such a Convention will do their duty. I honestly have hope that they will rise above it all, fix our document, and let us begin the great journey of this country from a new place of consensus.

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

running our national goernment now? Friends or Foes? In just 5 weeks they have crammed more down the throats of Americans than any other administration.

WHERE DOES IT STOP? WHEN DOES IT STOP?

I am begining to believe this Muslin Kenyan born President and his Democratic socialist lovers are comitting a power play of the highest order, Alinsky style. It is treason!

Get a rope !




HD74
Too true

Hitchhiker
With all due respect,we have enough problems here in the People's Republic of Maryland without adding the District's welfare population...

Why not ...
Why not Gautanomo Bay? Might as well include all of our enemies...

Solution
I say the place to start is anywhere with one serious challenge to the Feds. For example, we could file suit in Federal Court demanding that the unconstitutional (illegal) Federal Department of Education and Indoctrination cease and desist.

It is not easy to herd cats and it is not easy to organize one focused counter-attack. However, it needs to be done, and it may not matter a great deal just what issue comes first. The schools are higher on my priority list than DC, but we need to focus somewhere.

Constitutional convention
A new constitutional convention sounds worse that what we currently endure. Occasionally, someone will give lip service to the existing "living document", but guess who will attend the convention.

About all we have are people who were warped in government monopoly education and indoctrination centers and people who were warped in private schools by "educators" who were warped in government monopoly education and indoctrination centers.

Enjoy the bread and circuses while they last.

Publius, Look at Hitchhiker's Post
where he is arguing that we don't follow the rules anymore (there is a Constitutional rule regarding a Federal place apart from the states). It is now moot.

Where are we? We have a written document that nobody follows anymore, so what good is it. Everyone appeals to the Constitution to make their point, but the fact is we are just making up the rules. Why bother?

That's why I suggest we scrap it and start again. Or we can use it for a first draft and mark it up. The principles, not the document, were sacred. We now follow neither and perhaps a Constitutional Convention will fix it.

More Jefferson:
"On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." --Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823. ME 15:449
Far too many in government accept the concept of the Constitution as a living document. That is wrong.





Solutions
We could divide and distribute DC or we could encourage the religion of peace to destroy it with a nuclear device--a peaceful one. But how can we get Federal officials to actually honor their oaths to protect and defend our not-a-living-document Constitution?

Politicians are too busy buying votes with unconstitutional money-spreading programs, and the 5-4 DC Supremes are too busy writing new laws or protecting and defending the erroneous decisions of dead judges (precedents).

Much Ado About *not much*
Most who have read my incoherent posts hereon have figured out how I feel about Wash D&C (&) is not a TYPO..I did my *years of Penance* and my Youngest works for DOD there now..Never saw a place I utterly DESPISED but DC.
I agree with Hitchhiker and Akagi on the "divvy up" solutions.. Hell of it is I doubt that VA or MD want the problems associated with that cess-pool. CHEERS

Akagi
writes, "There is another way. I don't think the Constitution defines the boundries of the Federal District--the Virgina section was returned in 1847"

That is the simplest, cleanest way to eliminate the whining about the disenfranchisement of the poor sobs in DC. Simply divvy it up among the surrounding districts and make the jurisdiction the surrounding states. The need for a separate district apart from state jurisdiction was made moot in 1865. The feds are everywhere. The have offices in my home town. All over the capital city of my state. What is the friggin point of a District of Columbia?

elko.mike
Everything you said is true, BUT, the Framers were of a different mindset than the bunch we have in office nowadays. They were determined to preserve liberty, not expand government. Jefferson himself said that the government which governs least governs best. We didn't get the monolith federal government we have now until after the mis-named Civil War, when Lincoln initiated the growth of government that the Framers tried so hard to avoid. I'm just not confident that our rights would be protected with socialists like The Glorious One, Comrade Pelousy, Land Deal Reid, and the rest of the ratpack in Washington involved. We may be throwing out a Constitution that has worked pretty well, relatively speaking, for over two hundred years for something that none of us would want to live under.

Steve Chapman
writes, "For the president and Congress to pretend none is needed betrays an alarming casualness about the Constitution."

I gotta agree with TrueLib on this one. The tone of the column, especially this line, betrays an alarming casualness about the constitution on your part. It's been sliced, diced, and chopped into fine powder to be used in liberal bongs long long ago. We face an uphill battle to educate enough citizens to even start a movement that might possibly gain enough traction to begin a slow process of reversing the trend and starting a new beginning on a course back towards the piece of paper you seem to fear we are in danger of leaving. That boat sailed eons ago and has been banned from any friendly port for the foreseeable future. As Tim Allen once said, "Never give up, never surrender" but, let's be honest about the state of the battle. Constitutionalists are currently members of Picket's division marching up Cemetery Hill.

Akagi, A final word from Jefferson
who said co-equal branches had co-equal capability to determine what was Constitutional. I believe impeachment by the representatives closest to the people was the ultimate arbiter and makes sense for the style of government that was crafted.

Jefferson:
"My construction of the Constitution is . . . that each department is truly independent of the others and has an equal right to decide for itself what is the meaning of the Constitution in the cases submitted to its action; and especially where it is to act ultimately and without appeal."

—Thomas Jefferson to Spencer Roane, 1819. ME 15:21

Akagi, I believe you are wrong
First if SCOTUS is the weakest branch of government, then why is so much invested in electing justices? Further isn't it the ultimate in power to say who can do what in the government. That hardly seems like the weakest branch to me.

But why don't you argue this with Jefferson? He didn't like it and certainly disagreed with your position.

"To consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions [is] a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men and not more so. They have with others the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps. Their maxim is boni judicis est ampliare jurisdictionem [good justice is broad jurisdiction], and their power the more dangerous as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves."

Lenard
I am aware of nullification and I am aware what happened. Andy Jacosn used the threats of violence. See how well a state saying it didn't recognized US law over an issue--Kennedy sent the 101st Airborne to Ole Miss, LBJ nationalized the Alabama National Guard, we know what Lincoln did, courts have rules a farmer can't grow his own wheat on his own land and a state can't pass its own laws in regard to medical marijuana.

The states have zero checks on what the central government does--it does as it wants and the states just have to take it. I would say the states are like an abused spouse, but an abused spouse can leave, the states are more like a kidnap victim.

Publius
That's what I'm saying. Let us put it all on the table. I don't know how to unwrap all of the bad court decisions and precedence otherwise. Let's start with a clean slate and define the country we want rather than letting a few judges construct it to some personal agenda.

By the way, there was quite an argument at the Constitutional Convention and beyond as to whether a Bill of Rights was required. In Federalist 84 Hamilton argued against it and I believe he was right:
"I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and to the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed Constitution, but would even be dangerous ...

For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? ...

Why, for instance, should it be said that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed?"

In the Legal Tenders case in 1871 SCOTUS found that because the Bill of Rights were express limits on Congressional powers there must have been powers granted that were not enumerated. Thus the Bill of Rights caused the court to decide that Congress had powers beyond those which were enumerated.

How are we to remedy all of this other than blow it up and do it again?

AKAGI
The three branches of the Federal government check each other, the states and the people are also checks( I'm sure you're aware of nullification). As to being crushed by the federal government I think that's dependent on military leadership.

Not to be trusted
What I find most frightening is the competence displayed by the DC voters in re-electing convicted crack smoker Marion Berry.

EM
Marbury v Madison was intended to happen. The framers could never have included judicial review in the document itself or it never would have been ratified, but without it there was no reason to have a SCOTUS or the lesser courts as they would be powerless--not weak, but powerless. The framers intended for the courts to have this power. The judicial branch is still the weakest branch, but thankfully it has the power of judicial review. I can think of many bone headed and idiotic laws and acts that would still be with us if not for judicial review. Without it, there is no check on the other two branches by the courts, do you really believe the framers intended this to be the case?

Reba
Good idea, but everyone's pal--Lincoln--pretty much set fire to the 10th Amendment. You can try to excercise your rights as a sovereign state, but the Imperial Federal Government if it so desires will just crush you. It may only act like the mob and use money to blackmail you or have the Federal courts strike down your laws or like Mr. Lincoln did it may just send troops to crush you. The states aren't sovereign any longer, but slaves to the Imperial Federal Government--told what gas they can burn, where they can put their voting places, what roads they can build and on and on.

A US state is no different than a prefecture in Japan or a province in China--they exist for the convience of the central government. This BS about Federalism is just that BS.

The US stopped being a Federal Republic somewhere around April 9, 1865.

Why do we still have "the District of Co
It was carved out of swampland that VA and MD didn't care about enough to keep. It used to be a square, ten miles on a side, but the VA part went back to VA in 1846(see wiki).
For representation purposes, give it back to MD, and let them run it.
We aren't going to have any attacks on Congress that prompted its creation. Well, maybe we will, but the DC police would probably turn their backs. We don't need MORE congress, we need less.
tom

Flag
"The VIOLATE it to serve their purposes..."

And they have been doing so from day one. Jackson, Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, Nixon, Clinton, Bush and on and on. Why are you suprised?


Willis
"No proof that Obama is a natural born citizen. Ineligible Senators appointed to the Cabinet by using the "Saxby" dodge."

No proof he isn't either. And more evidence that he is than he isn't. In fact there is not a shread of credible evidence that he was not born in the US. And as I often point out, George Romney ran for president in 1968 and he was born in Mexico. If she had lived in the US for 14 years, Hsiao Bi-Khim could have run for President (she has now given up her US citizenship for poliitcal reasons) and she was born in Kobe, Japan. As for the Saxby Dodge, Nixon did it too didn't he?

It was under Nixon that DC got counted in the electoral vote--1972--given 3 Electoral College votes to equal the smallest states in the Union.

You should probably see someone over your ODS.

Voting
In 1970, in Oregon v. Mitchell the SCOTUS overturned the law which would require all states to register and allow to vote all of its citizens between the age of 18 and 21. In 1971, the 26th Amendment to the US Constitution was ratified which made the above decision moot. Hopefully, the SCOTUS will strike down this law as well if it becomes law. And why should Utah get the extra seat--isn't Wyoming or Montana or Alaska or a host of other small states as deserving? Why should DC get voting representation (the DC delegate can vote in committee just not on the floor)and not Guam or American Samoa, The US Virgin Islands, The Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands or Puerto Rico?

If the US Congress wants DC to have a voting representative just like say a state like Alaska (only 1 at large district)then there is a way to accomplish this--amend the Constitution.

If the states say "no thanks," well tough!

There is another way. I don't think the Constitution defines the boundries of the Federal District--the Virgina section was returned in 1847. Since much of the Maryland part is not used as part of the US government operations, much of this can be returned to Maryland's jurisdiction--leaving just a tiny part still part of DC. Some government offices would be in the Maryland part--but so? This is the case now--both the CIA Headquarters and the Pentagon are inside Virginia.


para_dimz
I wasn't meaning to imply that you didn't know the proper definition, and I apologize if it came across that way. It just sets my teeth on edge when I read or hear something about "assault weapons" when the reference is to legal, semi-automatic firearms. I'm glad to see that you and I are on the same side.

Misstating the Constitution?
The politicians don't "misstate" the Constitution. The VIOLATE it to serve their purposes and "to hell with the country". They pervert the Constitution constantly. So much for their OATH of OFFICE. (To PRESERVE, PROTECT, and DEFEND the CONSTITUTION of the UNITED STATES.)

How can anything better be expected of traitors to the U.S. of A.?

Ignoring the Constitution
No proof that Obama is a natural born citizen. Ineligible Senators appointed to the Cabinet by using the "Saxby" dodge. DC as a state. The Democrats don't care about the Constitution unless it's to give rights to criminals and deviants, as a means to take property from it's owners, or as justification to re-define marriage.


SUPPORT YOUR STATE'S SOVEREIGNTY

I just read the website for the Republican Liberty Caucus and watched the video by Rep Sam Roeher, Pa. urging support for State Sovereignty. A bill for State Sovereignty was presented this week in the Texas legislature with six sponsors and is assured to pass. Tennessee and Oklahoma have recently passed the State Sovereignty Act for their states and at least half of the states may have some sort of sovereignty bill up for consideration this year.

This is the way to go, support our states to pass the State Sovereignty Act as per our 10th Amendment to the Constitution asserting the rights of it's citizens and the authority of the state's government against unwarranated inference by the federal governmnt.

I urge everyone to check out this website provided by Baseballdoc: If Washington D.C. won't listen to us, support your state for State's Rights. Viva La Independence.

http://WWW.RLC.ORG

Then go to the link "ISSUES".



The Constitution....
...doesn't matter to the Democrats. If they want something they'll go after it and won't care if it's unconstitutional. They hate the Constitution anyway. I'm surprised someone didn't slip something into that obese stimulus bill that no one read that abolished the Constitution. Even if Obama caught it, he'd willingly sign. It just gets in their way anyhow! They'll pass the legislation to give Washington, DC a full-fledged member of Congress and the Constitution be damned!

Publius4254
I am aware what is defined by the term "assault weapon" when the government says it wants to ban that type of weapon. This definition stands opposed to the correct definition you posted.
All machine guns are assault weapons but not all assault weapons are machine guns.
The truth is any firearm can be used in an assault. The degree of effectiveness is the variable, is all. Looking at it that way maybe Holder's statement is more alarming that initially thought.
Glad you defined that for those who may be new to the subject.


elko.mike
I think it actually started before M vs. M with the First bank bill in 91 and then the Alien and Sedition Acts. I have to agree with Publius here, that now is not a good time for a CON CON. There are other options(Nullification to start with) but it requires strong state governments (Oklahoma for example which passed HJR 1003)and that requires changing the makeup of states, which requires moving to select states, starting with Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee, and Virginia (My first tier 4),and basically so changing the demographics of those states so as to "own" them.

Mr. Chapman is, for once, right
However, the same goes for the myriad other things the Congress does these days with without Constitutional authority, for example, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, laws against various forms of discrimination by private employers, federal drug laws. Why limit the outrage to this one subject?

Taxation without Representation?
What gets me is this notion DC residents have that they suffer from taxation without representation. Since most residents are Government employees, these people are paid FROM taxes! Yes, the government takes "taxes" out of the paychecks of government employees, but in reality the money they "pay" in taxes is just making a U-Turn. It comes from the government, and it returns to the government. This is fuzzy bookeeping and nothing more and it adds ZERO revenue to the treasury. Government employees are well paid, have great benefits, and enjoy lifetime job security, all at taxpayer expense. And on top of it, they are also UNIONIZED!!! I have no sympathy for them.

para_dimz
While you and I see eye-to-eye on the gun issue, I need to take you to task for one thing. What Holder is calling for a permanent ban on is not an assault weapon, which is defined as a selectiv-fire, full-automatic-capable, military shoulder weapon. These weapons have been controlled for years and you need a special permit to buy one, after an extensive background check. What Holder, and his boss The Glorious One, wants to ban are semi-automatic versions of those military arms, guns that operate the same way as millions of other non-military guns. If they can ban the semi-automatic, military-style guns they can ban the others, since they operate the same way. The term "assault weapon" was coined by the far-left MSM to demonize legal, semi-automatic rifles so that the ignorant public would be more amenable to their eventual ban.

elko.mike
On the surface a Constitutional Convention might seem like a good idea but there is a very big problem that we would have to deal with. Once a Convention is convened everything is on the table. There is no authority for restricting it to one or a few issues and leaving the rest alone. That means our rights undher the Bill of Rights would be under the gun. Do you really think that, in the current political climate, our gun rights would survive? Or our rights against unreasonable searches and seizures? Or our right not to testify against ourselves? I have no confidence that those rights, and the other rights we now have, would make it through a Convention unscathed. I agree that things are bad right now and something needs to be done, but I don't think a Constitutional Convention is the way to go.

It would be nice
It would be nice if the Constitution actually mattered, but in all honesty it doesn't. Those in power today are usurpers, nothing more, and to pretend that they are anything less is a denial of reality.The number of those in Congress who call themselves conservatives who actually look to the Constitution in their decision making can be counted on one hand.

Correction, I meant
SCOTUS rather than POTUS -- sorry for the clutter.

Like a STOP sign
The Constitution is clear as a bell what is says and what it means. But any more these days it doesn't STOP a thing.
ONe day they STOP. Next day they roll through. Next day they don't even slow down. Then finally they race through.
The cop behind the sign is us.
I wonder if the congress has any inkling that large parts of the law abiding, constitution loving citizenry are preparing for a real, honest to God shooting war?
You think they'd know. You think they'd be a little more hesitant.
But indeed, no. Today Holder is calling for a permanent ban on the sale of assault weapons using the Mexican drug war as an excuse.

IGNORING THE CONSTITUTION?
Since when has this become an issue? Both corrupt parties have been ignoring the Constitution, rule of law, and will of the people for decades. The only time they even mention the Constitution is when they need a sound bite for some TV appearance.

It is well past the time where we do the same thing and then expect a different result. As long as we keep voting the lesser of two evils, we will get evil. In 2010 we need to change our thinking and vote for Independents and third party candidates so that we can begin to break the immense hold on power that the elites have created for themselves. If we fail to make significant changes to this obscene power structure, we will see the end of freedom and a future in the New World Order/One World Government Euro-Socialist Utopia that the elites want to establish regardless of our birthright.

If you want to see how the elites have pulled off the greatest ever scam, visit my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG. The site is available for two more days, so check it out. Thanks, Joe

Steve, Marbury v Madison was ground zero
for the loss of the Constitution. Jefferson warned us about that years ago. Interestingly the Framers intended for POTUS to be the weakest branch of government. Jefferson himself said that it was up to each branch to determine what was Constitutional. Congress, using impeachment powers, was to be the pre-eminent Constitutional authority. When POTUS assumed judicial review and the right to determine Constitutionality for itself we began a long process of Construction -- proxie amendments -- by the courts.

What's the remedy? We have two. Jefferson thought a good revolution every few years was necessary as freedom is purchased with blood. The other is to call another Constitutional Convention under Article V, wipe the cruddy court work away, and start over.

Or we can live in the United Socialists of America.

What Constitution?
Since when has congress or the president, or for that matter, the Supreme Court let a little thing like the Constitution stand in the way of their decision making?

hogrider
Good question, and there wouldn't be a chance in h*ll of that happening.

DC a State ?
The constitution is clear.But what does our socialist president do? He ignores it and leads our congress the same way.Nice !

Just remember
A government that is big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have.

The Founders were very much aware of this and were very careful in how they crafted the Constitution, which specified the government's boundaries in exercising power over our every day lives.

Over the years, particularly starting with FDR, have been gradually tearing it up, placing judges, who instead of referring changes to the constitution to the proper legislative process, improperly legislate from the bench to satisfy personal political philosophies.

RJT_Jr
Do you suppose such an effort would be in play if DC were predominantly republican?

DC a State
Since the democrats want DC to have a voting member of Congress, then either DC becomes part of Maryland and we do away with any federal Districts, or the Census goes back to the Commerce Department and not one in the White House can have any input to the numbers. The way things are going, the democrafts will get 400 new seats in congress and the republican with get 37. Democrat districts will have 100000 citizens each while republicans will have 4000000 each. That way, the democrats will always be in the majority no matter what the actual country wants. Remember, the real conservative republicans want smaller government while the democrafts only want more power.

What Constitution?
I know we used to have one, but where is it now? Our Founders had learned from the Greeks, rejected democracy, and formed a constitutional republic in Article 4 Section 4. However, the mob did not like all the restrictions of a republic as they wanted to vote other people's stuff into their pockets and force everyone to march in lockstep with their vision of America. Now, we have the mob rule of a "wonderful" democracy. Now, the left and right wings of Control Freaks Unanimous fight over which way EVERYONE has to jump.

Enjoy the bread and circuses while they last.

rivenburg
The Glorious One knows that the vast majority of military members will not obey any order to disarm the citizens or fire on the citizens of this country. That's why he wants his Civilian National Security Force, his personal brownshirt army that he feels should be as large, well-equipped, and well-trained as the military, to do his bidding. I don't think this poser knows just yet the depth of resentment that he will generate if he proceeds in any attempt to disarm the populace, but he will find out if he tries it.

OBAMANATION
Dispite having many lives sacrificed for the United States Constitution to protect and defend the rights of Christians. Those that hate the word of God, try their best corrupt the courts, using all idols they have at their disposal. The Obamanation have the power of the presidency, and the activist congressional members whom worship the president. Civil servants, judges, law enforcement agents, social workers, and community activist close court access to prevent the rights of Christians.

Challenge Obama
With all of the lawsuits against Obama building from within and outside of the military, and all of the unconstitutional government control that has been happening for several decades now, it sounds like it is close to the time when the people need to stand up and physically challenge the authority of the federal government.There are now 22 states that have written letters to the federal government telling them that they have over abused their Constitutional authority and powers.It is time that the people take a stand with weapons and challenge the federal government. We have over 350,000,000 people at our disposal for our civillian militia. We need to get the federal government out so a real, Constitutional government can be put in its place and our nation can become strong and regain its wealth once again. The federal government has controlled the people for too long now and it is time to rein in on their parade. The federal government needs to be stopped and all of the Congresspeople who work for the Obama leadership need to be taken out as well. We The People must have a Constitutional control of our government.

On the issue of statehood
WE could get into redefining states casually in a way libs wouldn't like.
Main & Hampshire, these shouldn't be states, they should be counties. I live in a county bigger then both. Why cant my entire county get full representation? The predominantly liberal east coast is over-represented since they have a swarm of tiny county sized states getting full representation. if the libbies want to redraw voting, we can start redrawing states. The south west could gain 10 states easily this way. They wouldn't be liberal states either.

Trulib
What do you think 100 million gun owners that fawn over the constitution will think of that attitude?
The 10,000 or so big Barret .50's in circulation domestically are unstoppable.

The military is already discussing whether Obama's legitimate, the lawsuits from them are piling up.
Him ordering them after masses of US citizens will snap that camels back. No government can continue when it's military and it's citizenry doubt it's legality.

"State"
I believe the founders knew exactly what they were doing when they denied DC representation in congress, so I don't in any way support this measure.

The definition of "state" needs to be cleared up however, or we could begin to see a groundswell of support for exactly what the author says we would not see, calling for represntation in congress for ALL government installations.

We have in this country several commonwealth governments who do not call themselves states. If we use the Constitution as our guide and declare only "states" are entitled to representation in congress, we could get rid of a lot of the libs in congress, as an overwhelming percentage of these come from commonwealths.

We need to more fully understand what the founders meant by "states" when they wrote the Constitution. We do know, however, they did not consider DC a "state."

DC as a State?
Don't they have a right to vote as citizens of Maryland? And our reps vote (or should) in their home states. Why not give statehood to cities that are larger than DC? New York, Boston, Los Angeles etc?

if they want to vote........
There is one very simple solution to voting and representation. MOVE to a state. Last time I looked we weren't Cuba, yet. One has a choice to live wherever one wants. This feeling of entitlement is just too much.

Mike Church said on his radio show that the dems in Congress have forsaken the Constitution and we may need non-Constitutional means to fight this power take over before we become Cuba. How long of taxing the top wage earners, you know those who produce jobs, before they pack up their businesses and move to more tax-friendly and work friendly areas of the world? Then whose taxes will they come after? Think people!! THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.

I second that to the webmaster . . .
of this site. While I do appreciate the time and effort (and philosophical viewpoints and opinions) it seems that this site could be improved for those of us on dial-up. Believe me, I would scrap dial-up in a minute if any other option were available to me. Maybe you could make suggestions to help us out.
Once again, thanks for a good site.

DC?
I still can't figure out why ANYONE would live in DC. The only residents should be the presient and the VP. I could not imagine living in a town that has to shut down everytime the Prez goes out. Everytime some shmoe (visiting dignitary) from out of town decides to make a visit to DC.
Yuck. DC is a mess and people WANT to lib=ve there? LMFAO

Just another example
of how this so-called President and the Congress are using the Constitution as their own private toilet paper. Nothing in the Constitution gives them the authority to do this but, what the h*ll, they'll do it anyway. Why? Because they want to, that's why. We are quickly converting from a Republic to a dictatorship.

We are a nation of laws

...or we are not. The lawlessness of Congress and our new POTUS is becoming legion and needs to be stopped by the people.

We don't need mob rule in this country, and, in fact, we are a republic, and can't allow the mob rule of democracy to overtake our laws.

A constitutional amendment is the only legal way to cause this change to DC. Period.

We are a nation of laws

...or we are not. The lawlessness of Congress and our new POTUS is becoming legion and needs to be stopped by the people.

We don't need mob rule in this country, and, in fact, we are a republic, and can't allow the mob rule of democracy to overtake our laws.

A constitutional amendment is the only legal way to cause this change to DC. Period.

Get Real
Waa waa waa. More "Constitution" blather. Will you all quit pretending that thing has any relevance today. The sole reason for the Constitution was to limit the power of the government. Does anyone seriously believe there are ANY limits on government power now?

The end game will be the return of military forces from around the world and a huge push to disarm the citizenry. Waste of time to complain. We voted for it.

the problem
is not taxation without representation. the promlem is representation without taxation, and now that the democrats have taken over, representatives without taxation. i have a suggestion. make dc a separate country, and give them all the congressional seats, the scotus, and presidency as well. it would be a very good riddance.

Excellent Analogy Mr. Chapman
The founders knew exaclty what they were doing when they denied the residents of the District of Columbia a voice in Congressional matters.

The Democrats just want to give it one because most of the residents there are members of one or more of the Democrats "Victim" groups and would always vote for a Democrat to represent them.

Like you said, if they want their delegate to become a representative with an actul vote in Congress, let them pass an amendment to the Constitution.
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