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Sunday, January 04, 2009
Steve Chapman :: Townhall.com Columnist
Why the Senate Should Seat Burris
by Steve Chapman
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One of the axioms of American democracy is that we are a government of laws, not of men. We are supposed to follow the requirements of our Constitution and statutes even when they yield results we dont like -- say, freeing a person who appears guilty. We are about to find out if Democrats in the U.S. Senate want to follow the rule of law or indulge their own preferences.

The dilemma arises because of Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevichs decision to appoint a replacement, Roland Burris, for the seat left vacant by President-elect Barack Obama. I have no desire to be represented in Washington by Roland Burris, but then, I have no desire to be represented in Springfield by Blagojevich. The truth, though, is that both were chosen by legitimate, democratic procedures, and until they are removed by legitimate, democratic procedures, we -- and the Senate -- have an obligation to put up with them.

Given his pending indictment and impeachment, it took a lot of gall for the governor to act. But the facts remain: He is the governor, and state law confers on him the unchecked authority (and, by implication, the responsibility) to fill a vacant U.S. Senate seat when the term has less than two years to run.

The Illinois General Assembly could have acted years ago to require special elections in such circumstances, or it could have acted last month. But it didnt. Which means Blagojevich has every bit as much right to name a successor as he does to veto legislation, administer the budget and sleep in the governors mansion.

Democratic senators find these facts inconvenient. So, in a show of unity, they say they will refuse to let Burris take his seat. In the event he shows up on Capitol Hill to begin his new job, The Chicago Tribune has reported, "armed police officers stand ready to bar him from the Senate floor."

The senators insist they may shut the door to Burris because the U.S. Constitution says, "Each house shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members." But that doesnt mean the right to exclude anyone they wish. If it did, a Democratic Senate would be perfectly entitled to refuse to admit any Republican, and vice versa.

What it means is that the Senate may ensure members meet the requirements established in the Constitution. Each senator is supposed to be at least 30 years old, a U.S. citizen for at least nine years and a resident of the state he or she represents.

In a 1969 case involving Adam Clayton Powell Jr., who was barred from the U.S. House of Representatives because of corruption allegations, the Supreme Court said that "in judging the qualifications of its members, Congress is limited to the standing qualifications prescribed in the Constitution" and that "since Adam Clayton Powell Jr. was duly elected by the voters of the 18th congressional district of New York and was not ineligible to serve under any provision of the Constitution, the House was without power to exclude him from its membership."

Nor does it matter that Powell was elected by his constituents and Burris was not. Its not Burris fault that there was no election. Like Powell, he secured his seat under the procedures set out by his state.

Its far more plausible to say that the Senate isnt obligated to accept Burris if his appointment involved illegality -- say, if he promised Blagojevich something tangible in exchange, as the governor allegedly sought from other prospects. But so far, no one has alleged, much less proven, anything of the kind. Its one thing for the Senate to conduct an investigation to remove all doubt. But it shouldnt use that pretext to endlessly delay what it cant legally prevent.

If the Senate thinks Blagojevichs presumption is intolerable, after all, it has another option, and one explicitly sanctioned by the Constitution: Seat Burris and then expel him.

The problem is that would require a two-thirds vote, and Republicans might not be willing to go along. For that matter, some Democrats might balk at inflicting such a harsh punishment on someone whose only sin is an excess of ambition and vanity -- which is not exactly rare in Washington.

When faced with a result that accords with the law, senators have a duty to accept it. In this instance, it wont be pleasant. But if the rule of law only told us to do what is pleasant, we wouldnt need it.

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Steve Chapman is a columnist and editorial writer for the Chicago Tribune.
 
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Of course it took a lot of gall

for the governor to appoint anyone to fill Marxist Obama's seat.

And there is no doubt, "gall" and "hubris" is something Blago has more than his share of....

Never the less, he is STILL the gov. of Ill., until such time that he's impeached, or whatever they decide to do.

Now, you want to talk "hubris" and "gall?" Someone could write an entire column on Reid and Pelosi, and .... okay, the ENTIRE DEMO party.


However, it's a good thing for the demos in both the House and the Senate that the Supreme Court ruled, in the case of Adam Clayton Powell Jr., that regardless of corruption allegations they could NOT bar him....

Otherwise, at least half of the left side of the aisle, in both the House and Senate, would be barred from being seated.


OR, you want to talk "hubris" and "gall?


Someone could write an entire column on deranged-IQ29! LOL



Burris/Obama
One more reason to seat Burris...Obama is Burris in 30 years. Freaky but true. Actually, Obama lost to friggin Bobby Rush. Burris at least did some public service. Maybe Burris for President....sorry, got caught up there for a moment.

Burris is a legitimate Senator
Reid painted himself into a corner when he was quick to say 'he would not seat anyone who was nominated by Blogo' because......Blogo is still the governor of IL and he has not been impeached yet - something that is becoming less likely as Fitzgerald calls the case 'complicated'. Obama should not have asked Blogo to resign in public because he knows all the favors they owe each other. This is what ticked Blogo off and he decided to go all out and outperform his fellow democrats by doing his duties including - appointing Burris. Now if only Burris was white, it would make it all easier for the liberal white democrats to stop him. The fact that Burris is an old black guy who has earned his position by fighting for 'blacks' and their 'civil rights', makes it impossible for Reid and Pelosi to pick a fight about sitting him. Blogo should milk this fact as much as possible and directly ask Reid why Burris should not have a seat at the all white senate. Does anyone see the irony? Black is the new Camalot. It's our time now, he argued as he got 99% of blacks to vote for him and win the primary over the white lady - and he was not joking!

Seat Burris and then expel him
Yes, indeed, the Senate should seat Burris, and then, as its first order of business, they should vote to expel him by two-thirds vote, as the Constitution expressly authorizes in Article One, Section Five, Paragraph Two. Even thought there might be an argument that the Powell case is not directly applicable in this situation, seating and then expulsion avoids any drawn out legal wrangling over this point.

I think your speculation that Republicans might not go along is clearly wrong. Even if Senate Republicans were unprincipled enough vote to seat Burris for the sole purpose of embarrassing Democrats, which I contend they definitely are not, surely they would realize that such a tactic would be completely transparent and would undoubtedly backfire.

And as almost every Democrat in the Senate has already indicated his or her willingness to refuse to seat Burris, surely they would be just as willing to vote to expel him rather than "balk" at a "harsh punishment" that would certainly be no harsher than refusing to seat him, and would clearly be in line with express Constitutional language, and therefore undoubtedly legitimate.

Losing patience with Harry Reid
What's missing here is the legitimate need to be assured that Burris' appointment is not tainted by the kind of deal that Blago was willing to make. Democrats and the country would be remiss to lack vigilance when these suspicions have been raised.

That being said, once the nomination is vetted there is no stopping Burris from taking office. It doesn't matter how mediocre or unelectable he may be, there have been plenty of poor appointments by governors over the years.

Perhaps this will be the tipping point in pushing aside Harry Reid as ML. How can he be so hardnosed on Burris when he lets Karl Rove get away with contempt and lets Bush get away with war crimes? Better to have had Hillary as majority leader (but that's water under the bridge).

This whole issue is just like
the democratic party, a chinese fire drill caused by the players themselves. For Reid to "encourage" Blago to NOT nominate a person of color shows the racial bias that has been rampant since the civil war in democrats, after all, which party fought integration in the 40's, 50's and 60's harder than democrats? Which party has a sitting member of the senate who was/is a master of the KKK? There is only one aspect of this farce that I find truely disturbing, and that is the idea put forth by Rush that this should be a "black only" seat. If the people of Illinois want that then they should make it known in a special election, otherwise the Senate is for Asian, black, Am-Indian or any other group that can mount a credible candidate.

Robert...
...those were the two most intelligent postings I ever saw you make! Congratulations!!!

The author is right that the Republicans should vote to seat Burris.Upholding the rule of law is more important than politics.

Of course,Burris' is the Dems baby.Let them ban him if they wish,and the Pubs should just sit back and watch the show like the rest of us.

The Corrupt Congress
headed by Reid & Pelosi don't want him seated because he probably knows a lot about Hussein that would be harmful.

I say put all the Chicago thugs in a sack and shake it until one falls out. No plus or minus doing that.

Relativism, par excellence
Two wrongs make a right?

I'm an active member of an organization seeking to destroy one form of injustice in American society.

Others must adhere to my philosophy, understand my rage and acquiesce to our organization's methods of addressing these "injustices."

This a a good person to vote on, have as a shining example of Constitutional Government and keeper of our societal mores?

C'mon. Anarchy a la Saul Alinsky is fine and in safe hands...long live Black Power!!!!! SDS and the Weathermen, too.

Blago strikes again
Does anyone really think Blago appointed Burris because he thinks the man will be an outstanding seantor in the remainder of Obama's term? No, this is an exercise in spite that includes a large dose of the digital salute. It would have been better had Burris declined the "honor", but he didn't and left the Senate with a mess.

That Blago is beneath contempt is obvious, but as Chapman has noted, he is still the legally elected Governor of Illinois. The Senate should seat Burris and afterwards investigate the details of how Blago chose him. Then, and only then, should the Senate decide whether Burris should stay in the Senate. Of course, given the snail-like tendencies of the Senate, Burris' term probably would be over before they came to any decision.

MIA

M. I. A.

Famed Navy Pilot and world renowned raconteur has been reported Missing In Action.

This condition, and direct violation of the "Uniform Code For Town Hall Trolls",
The 'UCFTHT', existed for most of 30, & 31 December 2008, and a large portion of 1 Januanary 2009.
[ We here at CWI, pronounce 'UCFTHT', as 'Uk - Phtut'

Our searches revealed...

An un-named source told our group, Commie Watch International, that wobbie was on one of his many secret missions, and could give no further details.

We however have obtained another secret video, from one of our 'Dark Birds' flying in the Scranton, PA neighborhood where the Scranton VFW is located.

This video, clearly shows wobbie and hul drunkahooey, intimately holding hands as they stagger down the street toward the nearest motel.


After hours of extensive analysis, we at C. W. I. ( Commie Watch International ),
have concluded that wobbie and hul started celebrating New Year's Eve, about two days earlier than most.


More news, as it develops.


Interesting
I believe the Congress has refused to seat members based ontheir own criminality. But can the Senate or House refuse to seat a member who is not himself criminal but was lawfully appointed by someone who is very likely criminal. ( Remember the verdictis not yet in, no matter how likely it may be.) It's academic to me, obviously, buT I think Steve Chapman is right. Anyone who has ever asserted his or her rights under law must logically agree with Chapman. Legally he can appoint. He did. End of story as far as I can see.

Why Senate should seat Burris
It is funny that we are a country of laws and not men only when it suits but not all the time.We also need men with character but on that score we do even worse.This is a power play and nothing else and an I dare you as we used to do as children on the play ground.The sad thing is that people are stupid enough to vote for this kind of representation and we have only ourselves to blame.

TOWNHALL

TOWNHALL suffers embarrassment from the same deluded person (replies 1 and 2) once again.

If a computer worm was infecting the site would the problem be fixed? Of course. Sadly, this deranged individual continues to post. How long has this been going on? Two years? Longer?

Blagojevich's biggest sin in the eyes...
of Senate Dems is that he got caught, his second biggest was making the Senate appointment in spite of being told not to by his "betters" in the Party and now they have to prance around declaring how righteous they are. Keeping up appearances is all it amounts to.

I agree with Chapman. Blagojevich is still the Governor of Illinois, let his appointee be seated in the Senate.

Given the recent media spotlight...
...and the MSM's typically slobbering 24-hour-a-day coverage of this appointment, Burris is probably the only Chicago politician of the last 160 years who DIDN'T buy his office.

something that I find amusing..
coming from Dems that are saying Burris should be seated is that he won't run for the seat again when he finishes Obama's term. They say, oh well, you know he is 70 years old and at the end of his public career and he is a nice guy, so just let him have his day in the Senate.

That is the amusing part when you consider the age and length of careers of many members of the Senate. If Robert Byrd at 90 something isn't ready to retire, what makes anyone think Burris is. At 70 he is still a youngster and has at least another 20 or so years.

Upland Wm: Burris' appointment is nothin

more than Blago spitting in the eye of the dems.

But, this is NOT as much about Burris as it is Blago and Obama and the whole Chicago-Ill-demo political machine, which is pretty much like Saddam's "wood chippers."

Now, if you want to talk about who is qualified and who isn't qualified, we can pit Burris against the NYS favorite appointee, Caroline "ya know" Kennedy Schlossberg ... "ya know!"

If Rodent Reid wants to bar anyone from the Senate, he should start with Schlossberg, should the NYS gov. actually be stupid enough to appoint her. The stupid broad hasn't voted in the past 12 elections, and she can't even articulate beyond that of a 12year old "valley girl".... and I thought they were "out" years ago... ya know?

They must seat him
because he is Black.

If they do not seat him they are Racists.

Remember, from now on Blacks get everything they want the nanosecond they want it -- and you CANNOT say they are unqualified or undeserving, lest the cry go up YOUARACIST!

The era of BigBlackBrother is here and the sooner you learn to shut up and go along, the safer you and your family will be.

Re: It is not his fault!!
The only reason why the congress especially the senate will not seat this guy is becuase of all the crap that is going on in Ill. And for these Demo. clowns not to seat this gentlemen it only speaks to what the Demo. party is full of-you guessed it!!!

If the Constitution matters...
Why do we concern ourselves with the Constitutional requirements for Senators while the President-elect won't produce documentation to unequivocally prove that he is has met the Constitutional requirements to be President? Maybe this Burris matter is just a diversion? After all, they are ALL -- Obama, Blagojevich, Burris -- Illinois Democrats.

Bottom Line
The bottom line is that as long as this farce keeps going on the MSM is reporting it, as long as the MSM is reporting it, people are thinking negative thoughts about the Dims. Ovomit is being hurt ever so slightly, but hurt none the less. As long as this is happening we aren't being screwed over quite so much as we would have been otherwise. Let's keep it going folks.

I Smell Manipulation
I don't trust this guy. I think he is setting up our sensibilities for he upcoming GOP fight in the Senate over Frankenfraud. The Republican should and must use their lawful filibuster power to keep this Bozo out of Congress. But watch Chapman and his league McCain-esque rinos urge us to just sit by and let it happen.

Corrupt
This crap of the politicians making law which seems to be in conflict with the Constitution must stop, but it will not until the voters start electing people of good charater.
In Massachusetts the DEMONcRATS made a law that favored them, when it became apparent that the Republicans might benefit by it they wanted to change it......
When will the American voter become more famuluar with the process of government and our constitutioal form of government and start making good choices in the voting booth!
"WE" only have ourselves to blame!
p.s.
OBAMA, WHERE IS YOUR LEGAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE?

Lawful
The Illinois Senate had a chance to vote in favor of a special election to seat a new Senator. They failed to do this because it "might" allow a republican to win the seat. They, instead elected to let the law stand "as is". There is no choice other than to allow Blogo's appointment stand, and Burris will win any constitutional battle to be seated.
Harry Reid is doing his standard "Constitutional Authority" doesn't matter, and we are letting him.
This and many other reasons will ultimately lead to some kind of revolution.
My vote is "LET THE REVOLUTION BEGIN"

And all the while
Brigade size UN troops are building up at various strategic locations all over the US to train police against "Civil Unrest" and enforcement of "Martial Law".
ARE YOU READY?

Use Reason Please!
The Governor of Illinois has been accused by the U.S. Attorney in Chicago of trying to sell a Senate seat in Illinois.

Mr. Burris has been appointed by said Governor, but don't the people of Illinois and the United States deserve to be assured that this man didn't "buy" this seat as well. Any appointee by Gov. Blagovich needs to be completely investigated before being seated in the Senate.

Okay
Former Senator Barack Obama agrees that the Democrat-controlled U.S. Senate should deny the Illinois Senatorial seat to Governor Blagojevich-appointee Roland Burris.

HOW DARES HE? HOW DARE THEY?

The Constitution lists only two entities that select members of the Senate:
The people vote for the candidate in an election.
The Governor of the state selects the candidate for an interim appointment.

The Constitution does not give Senators from one state the right to select the Senator from another state.

If a Senator commits a criminal or treasonous act while a member of the Senate, he can be removed from office through an established process. If his constituents vote him back into office, he cannot be denied the seat.
That does not apply in the case of Roland Burris. He is not in the Senate, so he cannot be penalized for any act in the Senate.

It would be more appropriate for those senators to reject the re-election of “I-found-more-votes-in-the–attic-of-the-strip-club” Franken.

What American democracy?
When was Article 4, Section 4 of the Constitution repealed? It states that we have a constitutional republic, which is a government of laws, not of men like democracy. All it takes in a democracy is to buy and steal 50.01% of the votes and any group can force other peoples' stuff into their pockets and/or force everyone to follow their vision of America in lockstep.

The belief that we have a democracy has given us government monopoly education instead of free choice under a voucher system. This government monopoly indoctrination system in turn is rapidly destroying our Constitution which did establish a government of laws and not of pressure groups.

Liberals ALWAYS hate the rule of law.

Liberals want to do things their way - NOT by the rule of law.

Pelosi and Reid DO NOT like the adulation that Barack 'Narcissist' Obama is receiving from his 'Cult of Personality' followers - it will continue to be interesting.

Blago is obviously a 'Crook' that Obama supported and campaigned for BUT he is the Governor.

No Burris Left Behind!
"in judging the qualifications of its members, Congress is limited to the standing qualifications prescribed in the Constitution" and that "since (Blowdryovich) was duly empowered by the Constitution of Illinois to appoint a Senator, the (Chamber is) without power to exclude him from its membership."

I have no desire to have Burris join the Dims in the Senate, but when Dingy Harry says that "they can do whatever they want to do" (as he just stated), I have to say, "Go Burry! Go Burry! Go Burry!"

Yep, Dingy Harry and his Merry Band of Libtards "can do whatever they want to do" at taxpayers' expense. Only a pseudo-King and despicable Senator would describe the people, who actually pay his salary, as Smelly Tourists.

Any boss in the real world would have given Dingy a pinkslip a long time ago. In the meantime, I hope that Dingy can read my middle finger from his throne in DC.

American Government NOT a Democracy

Constitutional Republic

The framers of the US Constitution feared that the American form of government might turn into a Democracy ruled by mobs instead of by law.

The simple analogy of the difference, is a lynch mob - the one being lynched has a vote but the mob has more votes.

America was founded on the rule of law to insure the individual citizen rights and protections under law.

Pure Democracy can create rights and take them away based on who is in power.

The long ardous journey towards the ideal of a Constitutional Republic is now being turned around by Democrats by adding rights to selected 'collective groups' with policies like 'Affirmative Action'.

Selected groups are given 'rights' by 'Affirmative Action' that deny 'rights' to other individual citizens - this is 'racism' in its purest form.

This 'racist' approach is deemed necessary for the 'Sacrifice for the Common Good' of society the hallmark cry of 'collectivism' and the various strains of Marxism and Barack Obama and his supporters.

James
As it stands now, Gov Blutarsky(easier to spell) has not even been indicted, yet tried and convicted. Since the presumption of innocence extends to crooked sleazebags(think OJ ,"Cold Cash" Jefferson, and Bubba) there are no legal grounds to deny the appointment. Only after investigations and any criminal proceedings that may result prove that the law was brroken can corrective measures be initiated.

Retired Geek at 10:53
Unfortunately, we have degenerated a long way over a long time from a constitutional republic toward an unlimited de-mob-ocracy. Everyone "educated" in our government monopoly schools (and/or by teachers who were) states that we have a democracy, and that includes our outgoing and incoming Presidents. Today's Republicans are also part of the problem. Keep fighting back!

Some people think that they can "uplink"
their names, but their ideas ALWAYS give away their true idenities.

Incompetent Potion Number 29, try: REAL JET PILOT. Absolutely, all of us will fail to recognize you as long as you post no comments.

"Uplink"? Didn't you receive my Christmas gift of a year's supply of aluminum foil?

Harry Reid and his Klan of Fifty

Harry Reid made it clear to Gov. Blagojevich, a few days before the good Governor was charged with trying to sell the Obama Senate seat that he did NOT want Jesse Jackson, Jr., Danny Davis or Emil Jones (all black).

"Inside Sources say the Senate majority leader pushed against Jackson and Davis -- both democratic congressmen from Illinois -- and against Jones -- the Illinois Senate president who is the political godfather of President-elect Barack Obama -- because he did not believe the three men were electable."

Reid accomplished the almost impossible

Harry Reid has accomplished the 'Almost Impossible' feat of having less regard for the law, less responsibility and likability than Rod Blagojevich.

Liberal political incompetence is breathtaking.

Is Harry Reid a racist also?

Save yourselves some time
Smart people here – also some whiners.

Smart people adapt to the given and work toward forming it to their needs. Whiners do the following:

> Stay kindergarten, like making up silly names for our new President. (Ovomit? Really?)

> Believe using Obama’s middle name “Hussien” will scare us into thinking he is a radical Islamic terrorist – as if Americans couldn’t possibly believe “Hussien” is as legitimate a middle name as “Walker” – and just happens to belong to a brighter guy.

> Think we really won’t have a President until he produces his birth certificate (this one makes ALL of us laugh.)

Some helpful hints to keep you going…

> Obama IS your President so you impress no one by claiming he isn’t. You WILL send him your money and you will NOT leave the country, participate in armed revolt or stop paying your taxes. So get used to it – then work, as is your right, to change your President to someone you prefer next time (and good luck with that!)

> Al Franken may soon be a Senator. Then again, he may not. Unless you live in MN, while your opinions may mean something – your allegations, accusations and indignance mean nothing. (Remind Ms. Coulter)

> America is not a White Christian country. It is now a wonderful amalgam of races, religions, cultures and beliefs. This “chaos and discomfort” is actually our strength. Relax about it.

Happy to help, now go get ‘em.

Democracy vs. Constitutional Republic
All we have to do to get our republic back is to force the 5-4 DC Supremes to honor their oaths to protect and defend the Constitution. Due to current circumstances, I guess we first need to figure out how to get Hell to freeze.

william, speak for yourself
"You WILL send him your money and you will NOT leave the country, participate in armed revolt or stop paying your taxes. So get used to it"

My problem isn't necessarily with POTUS (no slur there, mind you), but with the legislators that are not voted for within other states, but have ultimate control of what WE THE PEOPLE are able to do (ie. Liberty).

Think Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Charlie Rangle, Frank Dodd et. al.

These people have a great amount of control over what all of us are free to do. So don't belittle whatever revolt might ensue as they continue to over-reach.

Faubus, Wallace and Reid
blocking entry to a minority.

"In judging the qualifications of its members, Congress is LIMITED to the standing qualifications prescribed in the Constitution."

What part of LIMITED does Reid fail to understand? I know that he is limitedly-challenged, but I didn't know that he was brain dead.

Weeks from inaugurating the first African-American as POTUS, the TYRANT and his white colleagues are hanging a "No Coloreds Allowed" sign on the US Senate.

If nothing else (I am obviously LIMITING myself here), Reid has failed miserably in public relations. A BIG FLAT, RED "F". Smelly Tourists, who pay his freaking salary? Barring the only African-American, who will be seated regardless of what Reid does because State and Federal law controls, to the His Throne Room? Who's next? "Only Ignoramuses Need Apply" so as to keep Dimwit Dingy company?

And, some only thought that Murtha was bad...

"...makes ALL of us laugh."
One reason why both the left and right wings of Control Freaks Unanimous are so contentious is that too Americans many have laughed at the Constitution. With an almost unlimited democracy, far too much is now riding on every election. The group which buys and steals 50.01% can force everyone to march in lockstep with the majority. Individual freedom has been diminished and anger has resulted.

I do not laugh whenever the left or right ignores our Constitution.

Wm. in CA, darling!
"Obama IS your President"

Really? I must set my watch forward. I didn't know that it was 12:01 PM on January, 20th.

Seating Burris
The answer to Chapmans stupid argument. Al Capone was asked why he moved from N.Y. to Chicago,he answered that in order for him to succeed: he had to have it a crooked enviorment.I believe old Alphonse was correct.Anything goes in Illy,short of HONESTY.

AND?
Another post says...."And all the while
Brigade size UN troops are building up at various strategic locations all over the US to train police against "Civil Unrest" and enforcement of "Martial Law"."

The Constitution, I believe, says there is to be no foriegn troops (bivioucked..sp)on U.S. soil.

With(no birth certificate) Obama having been elected president by the liberal jerks, the United States of America is about to become non-existant!

Wanna bet that after Obama returns from Hawaii his "birth certificate" will suddenly appear?

Lemmings
Gee, thanks to your aw-shucks-that's-just-the-way-it-is article, I'm thinking now that we should all just jump over the cliff together with the rest of Obama's cronies, crooks and lemmings.

Geek, poorgrandchildren, garryb
Retired Geek and poorgrandchildren: Outstanding discussion relative to the differences between what the U.S. is supposed to be (a Constitutional Republic) and what we have descended into (a democracy).

Oh how I hope a lot of people start doing their homework and wake up to this most significant of issues.
************
garrb - 9:51 AM post ... do you have a reference for this? While my "guts" tell me something is going on, maybe you could point me in the right direction so I don't google myself to death.


Wm in CA
"Al Franken may soon be a Senator. Then again, he may not. Unless you live in MN, while your opinions may mean something – your allegations, accusations and indignance mean nothing. (Remind Ms. Coulter)"

My dear Caliberalfornian, you seem to be blissfully ignorant of the fact that with Franken as senator, we all get him, not just Minicaliberaforniawannabesota.

What is this, and who wrote it?

--
No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, … … … 

and been nine years a citizen of the United States and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state for which he shall be chosen.
--

I read this somewhere the other day and it seems to me that if this is true, it will be difficult to seat Sweetie Kennedy.

Blago's Three Ring Circus
I propose that Blago withdraw Burris and instead appoint Al Franken, Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, or Caroline Kennedy to Obama’s seat. If we are going to make this a circus, we need the clown car. Discuss!

Democracy and Poverty
I realized in 2008 that our almost unlimited democracy Big Government is not waiting to create Poor Grandchildren. It is charging right ahead and creating poor grandparents.

Reader from DC
Mr Chapman
Hear! Hear!

Burris is a Democrat, but...
Why does Chapman presume that he is "someone whose only sin is an excess of ambition and vanity"? From all outward signs, this career public servant is qualified for the job. Why should he not take it?

Today on FoxNews Burris' attorney was interviewed, and he was totally aghast at Harry Reid's behavior. I would say to him: Take a good long look, sir, and see just who the real racists are in this country. Looks like Robert Byrd is not the only grumpy old racist in the Senate!

Al (Always Learning)
Here is one link

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/7/us_army_denies_unit_w ill_be

Here is another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTMq0C0OKNg

and another

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZW71e_3ZWc

There was another source when I was reading portions of BBC.
They were matter of fact about it, but I realize they don't understand
our Constitution. I didn't write down the link or anything.

I also read the source article from Army Times, and have personally seen quite a few
"Blue Berets" roaming the airports ( I travel allot).

Voting Dead
Just goes to show you the voting dead never could pick a good candidate, no matter how many times they vote in each election. Nevertheless, the very active voting dead of Illinois did elect Blago & he is innocent only IF a court of law finds him guilty. Harry Reid better find a good rathole inwhich to pound sand because the law is the law & the governor is the governor. It is the job of the governor to decide who replaces the Mesiah. A blind pig can do a better job than some of your past elected masterpieces, so what is the big deal anyway?

Democrats and the rules
Ann Coulter recently wrote a piece here about Democrats stealing elections. Pretty well researched stuff, noting that it is not inconceivable for them to refuse to seat someone. The only difference is that in the past it was a Republican that wasn't seated. Dems don't think the rules apply to them - just listen to Harry Reid today.

Chapman, wrong tense
I must disagree with you Mr. Chapman,the very premise of this article is that we are a government of laws. That premise has been proven incorrect and thus this article has no basis in fact. We saw how the "law" works when it came to the Clintons, we saw how it worked with Gerry Studds, Ted "the swimmer Kennedy", and all the rest. We have numerous examples of government and the political class exempting itself from the laws that apply to all the rest of us. The United States government of the last 100 years has become the largest criminal enterprise in this nations history.

Illinois politics? The idea that the state of Illinois somehow evolved "democratic" processes is a bad joke and another statement with no basis in fact. Illinois is simply a corrupt and decrepit microcosm of everything wrong with party politics in the US.

We were once a nation of laws, past tense.

DON'T TREAD ON ME!

More rules
It is also a Senate rule that appointees must be certified before being seated. Dems will use every minute of the 90 days allowed of investigation of an appointee during which the Illinois House and Senate will doubtless impeach and convict Blago, making the matter mute.

In the meantime, the GOP, if they continue down this road, will be perceived as the party supporting an appointment that has virtually no public support.

The GOP's knack for being on the wrong side of an issue is staggering.

We were once a nation of laws
Yes, we were once a constitutional republic (Article 4, Section 4). We have now degenerated into an almost unlimited democracy. Mob rule!

Thank You Mr. Chapman
For the excellent reminder that the United States of America is (so far still) a nation of laws despite all of the efforts of the Democrats.

The United States Attorney Fitzgerald (already tainted, in my mind, by his actions in an earlier Washington DC case) gave a press conference making some very prejudicial statements, basing his public statements on some selective telephone recordings which he played for the crowd.

I do not understand the Democrats who normally cry "innocent until proven guilty" in this case.

My main question is why did the US Attorney arrest the elected Governor of Illinois and give his press conference prior to having his case ready? I wonder if it had anything to do with protecting other Democrats who might get caught on tape saying something that might embarrass them?

Senator Reid says he did not say anthing to the Governor about the Governor not choosing a black man to replace Senator Obama and Governor Blago's staff says he did -- I want to hear that tape.

Add an F
It would seem we have gone from a "Nation of Laws", to a "Nation of Flaws"! I would also remind William that today is the 4th, not the 20th, and ask why he objects to anyone insisting documentary proof of eligibility from anyone elected to office! Surely, we cannot hold Reid and his ilk to the Constitution and not bother with such a clear Constitutional requirement as "Natural Born Citizen"! Much was said, a few years back, about Schwarzeneggar, (SP?), and the Presidency! Surely, SOMEONE has standing to demand adherence to the Constitution!

garryb -- TX

Date: Jan 4, 2009 - 2:31 PM EST Subject: Al (Always Learning)
*************
Thanx for the links! I will begin checking them out as soon as I am sure the Phil. Eagles are going to lose!


COME ON, SOMEONE READ THIS!!!!
Read this and tell me how anyone is elected to the Senate.

jim Location: CA
Reply # 56
Date: Jan 4, 2009 - 12:56 PM EST
Subject: What is this, and who wrote it?

--
No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, and been nine years a citizen of the United States … … …

and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state for which he shall be chosen.
--

I read this somewhere the other day and it seems to me that if this is true, it will be difficult to seat Sweetie Kennedy.

That's copied from the Constitution, in case you never read it.


jim: okay, I'll bite! WHY would it will
be difficult to seat Sweetie Kennedy?

I believe she's old enough, and as I recall she's actually lived in NYS for a long time, which of course, is MORE than Hellary did when she ran for Senator from NYS.


Ha ha
"One of the axioms of American democracy is that we are a government of laws, not of men."

Someone forgot to tell that to George Bush, the dictator wannabe.

What goes around comes around, what's good for Karl Rove is good for Harry Reid.

I suspect the "unitary executive" powers will be expanded even greater than Cheney ever imagined under Obama.

Reap what you sow.

Blago,Burris & Reid,The Weasel
Hotrod is probably no dirtier than any other politician in Chitown.Look where dirt got B,Hussein.

I hope Reid,the Weasel, will try to stop Burris from being seated. The Black Caucus will be on him like white on rice. Um...that may be hard to do.

Hotrod,like any other crook,is innocent until proven guilty,so let him appoint anyone he wished to. It is just too delicious that he appointed Burris.

That just brings out the racism in the Democrats if they refuse him to be seated. I cannot wait to see the fur fly.

The Senate hands are tied
How do you blame the Senate Democrats if they want to bar Burris, with Blagojevich under possible impeachment. It's a bitter pill to swallow allowing Burris into the senate picked by Blagojevich who is under investigation for attempting to sell a senate seat. Blagojevich had the authority to pick a replacement and thats what he did. Can we say that Burris and the Senate Democrats are caught in the middle. Still, Burris will show up, and if he's smart, will have all his documents certified. What the Senate Democrats do is still food for thought. Burris never should have gone before the media to plead his case, he should have gone to the Senate Democrats to stop a possible in house war between the white and black Democrats. The Democrats should welcome Burris in the Senate, after all they did put a black man in the Presidency. If the Democrats can live with President elect Obama in the office as President, they can live with Burris in the senate.

NEWSFLASH this just in

MSM declares Barack Obama the greatest President Elect in history.

MSM spokesman said when Barack Obama investigated himself and found himself Not Guilty of any wrongdoing in the selling of his Senate seat, he set a new standard of openness and integrity.

follow the rules
If Burris were connected to the Blogo scandal, refusing to seat him might make sense. He has not been accused of being connected. Apparently, he is very experienced in a variety of governmental positions. The law allows the Illinois governor (and nobody else) to appoint its Senator. Given that Burris is not connected with the scandal, he should be seated.

Caronine Kennedy, on the other hand, is a joke. He interviews showed that she is a first class idiot -- and it casts doubt with me that she ever "wrote" any of the books she is credited with "writing."

Amend the Constitution

Anne Location: PA
Reply # 72
Date: Jan 4, 2009 - 5:15 PM EST
Subject: jim: okay, I'll bite! WHY would it will
be difficult to seat Sweetie Kennedy?

Read this from the Constitution, then read the whole sentence.
=========

and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state for which he shall be chosen.

Article 1, Secton 3 of the Constitution says,

“No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, and been nine years a citizen of the United States and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state for which he shall be chosen.”

That’s hard to read and understand isn’t it?

====

That's just one of many amendments that are needed.

For example, what is an Establishment of Religion, and what is a "well regulated militia?"

And by the way, those first so-called Ten Amendments do not amend anything, they are the Ten Additions. And on and on.


Libs believe in race cards
The idiots of the US were dumb enough to elect dirty Chicago politics by putting obama in the White House so let the mayhem begin.

Blags pulled a fast one on his critics by playing the race card but that was expected. Libs breathe the race card that is how they operate. Blags appointing a black to turn the tables was as predictable as the sun rising in the east. Who is going to stand in the way of a black man? The blacks will all rally around him and so will the guilty whites. Those who still want to oppose Blags on this will now get the racist cards hurled at them.

Denise... You Rock !!!

Denise
Location: LA
Reply # 43
Date: Jan 4, 2009 - 11:14 AM EST Subject: Some people think that they can "uplink"
their names, but their ideas ALWAYS give away their true idenities.

Incompetent Potion Number 29, try: REAL JET PILOT. Absolutely, all of us will fail to recognize you as long as you post no comments.

"Uplink"? Didn't you receive my Christmas gift of a year's supply of aluminum foil?


~~~

Hmmph!

This old rat sees he has serious challengers, for 'wobbie' spoofs !

BRING IT ON !

I may lose the title, but I will LMAO, ( and, this old fat arse could stand to lose a few pounds. )


I love my own spoofs, but I love new ideas even better !

Thank you, for the laughs.

( For One-liners, I think Georgetwin nails that one. )

~~~

OBTW, I sent wobbie, a 'double wrap' tin foil hat with new transmitters. He loved it.

When he walks down the street, hand-in-hand with hul, they look like the "Tin Man and The cowardly Liar" from the 'Wizard Of Odd'.


The Barn Rat

Go ahead set Burris
He couldn't possibly be worse than Al Franken. I would personally be insulted if I were appointed to the senate. My God!

Jim
This interpretation might prove easier:
So, "No person *is going to be* a Senator who *has not reached* the age of thirty years *old*, and been * a U.S. citizen for nine years*, and *who won't, once elected* be *a resident of the state he is elected to represent*." Its the same statement, in essence and despite the use of the double negative to create the intended positive, is clear in its intent.

Or: Any person who is going to be a Senator must be 30, a US citizen for a minimum of 9 years, and, once elected, a resident of the state he will be representing in the Senate, without exception!

Same message, different wording. 18th century legalese designed to eliminate loopholes within one long sentence.

Decent article

This is probably the second Townhall article I've agreed with. But he is right - there's no legal reason not to seat Burris.

I suspect that Reid et al. don't want him because they fear (this seems to be their primary emotion) that the republicans will smear him relentlessly leading to a loss of the seat in 2010.

Amend the Constitution
Hi Jim: Just turn the words to a positive tense:
In order to be a Senator, you must:
1. Be at least 30 years of age.
2. Be a U.S. citizen for at least 9 years.
3. Be a resident of the state you are being elected from. In other words, you cannot be elected a senator from New York if you live in Vermont. In Hillarys' case, NY law allows you to establish residency on or before election day and I think the Clintons bought their house a couple of months before that in 2000.

As for "Establishment of Religion", the 1st amendment says: "Congress shall make no law repescting the Establishment of Religion, nor prohibit the free exercise thereof". So Congress cannot pass a law that says that the Protestant denomination or the Hindu religion, for example, shall be the official religion of the U.S., nor can congress pass laws that prohibit a person from worshipping as the person sees fit.

The word "regulated" in the phrase "a well regulated militia" means: "educated or trained in a like manner" This was the meaning of "regulated" in 1789; unlike today where the word implies some sort of GOVERNMENT rules, regs and control.

The first ten amendments are also known as: "The Bill of Rights" and are part and parcel of the Constitution as almost half of the constutional convention delegates in 1789 would not ratify the Constitution without the Bill of Rights.

Hope this helps.

Oops
Respecting, not repescting

The Democrats are wrong on this one.
The Democrats are so very wrong on this one. Blago is the governor and is legally able to do this since Illinois choose not to have an election. The governor is under suspicon but has not been impeached. Mr. Burris meets all the requirements of the constitution to be a Senator. And, from my limited knowledge, it appears that Mr. Burris has is quite qualified and even has more public service/government service than our president-elect.
Harry Reid has let power go to his head and is talking out of another orifice of his body. He needs to have someone explain the constitution to him. If this is a sign of what's ahead, it is going to be one hell of ride.

"well regulated militia"
It does not matter what this means. The Ninth Amendment says that we have our rights even if the Founders failed to mention them at all.

Amend the Constitution

Joesolis Location: CA
Reply # 84
Date: Jan 4, 2009 - 9:21 PM EST

Hope this helps.

jim Location: CA
Reply # 78
Date: Jan 4, 2009 - 7:35 PM EST
Subject: Amend the Constitution
=======

I knew all those things, but my point is, why not make it more understandable.

You know as well as I do that you can get a million arguments on each of those points.

I would prefer that the body of the Constitution be amended, so there is no argument on what it really means. Of course you must keep all the previous copies, so that it is possible to see what was changed from this to that.

And wow, do I ever get a fuss when I suggest this, but I want it to be easy to read and understand by all. If there are multiple interpretations due to changes is the use of language, that causes a lot of problems.

Of course if it was easy to change, the Libs would have destroyed it by now.

if you can rearrange the words, so can I

Joesolis Location: CA
Reply # 84
Date: Jan 4, 2009 - 9:21 PM EST
Subject: Amend the Constitution
=======

Sorry, I forgot to add that if you can rearrange the words, or change their tense, so can anyone else, and that is what causes a lot of problems.

What the originals wrote elsewhere is again open for argument. And if it is not in the Constitution it is not the law of the land.

Of course, different Supremes at different times will read it differently, and that is also a problem.

I don’t expect that it could ever be written to eliminate all arguments. After all, Libs see only what they believe, and A Conserv believes only what he sees.

Reid's real fear
Dr Douglas touched on what is really at stake here. It's not Reid's racism but his concern that the seat will go to the Republicans in 2010. I believe the assumption is fairly safe that Burris would win the Dem primary (advantage of the incumbent, and, yes, race) but he would be in a weak position for the general election. I don't have statistics on (re)election success for appointments but I'd think they're not as good as for someone who was initially elected to the position.

MSM Out-To-Lunch On This One Too
Where is the MSM ? Are they still burning with love of their 'messiah'? You know if these derelicts were Republicans,the media would be all over it.

This is what we've come to expect from them,though. They report nothing negative about Democrats and nothing positive for Republicans. That has been the story for years.

Hotrod is a crook,but he may be the cleanest of them all. If they have been bugging his communications since 2003,he must not be too bad or he would have been stopped before now. Wouldn't he?

Franken-stein will be seated. Caroline will be seated. Burris will be seated. They are Democrats and thats all that matters. They deserve to be seated.

Harry Reid will shut his mouth,kiss their rings and lead them to their seats. Then he will go to his own seat,crawl under is and lick his wounds,like the weasel he is.

The MSM will sleep through it all.

Senator Burris or No Senator?
There is absolutely no legal reason why Mr. Burris should not be seated as the Jr. Senator from Illinois. Gov. whoosits (Blago) may have made the appointment to gall the party, those against him, etc. - but he is still the govenor of the state. Whatever else floats about him - the stench of corruption - notwhithstanding, we are a nation of laws and traditions, and must respect the "govenor's" choice. The Illinois legislature dragged their feet with the usual in-fighting and muscle flexing that characterizes today's political scene. Rather than immediately take action, call a special election and take the matter out of Blago's control. By the time any of them realized which end was up - Blago - who is cunning and stayed alert had the winning hand.
As for Burris, the man appears to be qualified for that office. Certainly more so than Caroline Kennedy who only has a name to offer the voting constituency.
I say, seat him! Not because he's the right "color" to balance out the squares, but because his service record recommends him. As a Republican, I would have preferred to see what a special election might have produced - but that's what fairy tales are made of.

Bill Richardson
Richardson is another Democrat with a history of wheeling and dealing. It has come home to haunt him and make him bow out of the messiah-elect's cabinet appointment.

To be selected ,an appointee must have a dubious history . Just look at who has been selected already. Not a clean on in the bunch. Richardson's problem must be serious.

BEBOLA, best evah?
I think the MSM of the Arab World would disagree with the MSM of the Libtard World. It seems that Arabs feel "betrayed" and have chosen to publish PEBOLA's dismal attempt at playing golf in shorts while "innocent" Palestinians are being "murdered" by the "evil vomit" that they claim is Israel. Israel fires missiles, but Palestinians NEVER lobs rockets at Israel on an almost daily basis.

Obama's attempt at "rebooting" the Middle East "conversation" won't even travel the distance of his 20-yard drives.

What evah happened to Obama's Wet Dream Team's discussion of a "major" global speech in an Arab capital?

REALITY sucks, PEBOLA, which means you should probably stick with b-ball since I can KICK a golf ball further than your drives and reboots.

Hoping-and-Changing-and-Hoping mean nothing to terrorists that are hoping to change the landscape of America or Israel with a nuclear weapon. All the hope and dope won't change reality. And, pretty English words spoken in an Arab capitol will not change the hopes of those, who seek change in our destruction.

BEBOLA, best evah? Yep, and Blago is the most ethical politician in office.


Hey, Rat.

I'm one of those liberals
but I agree with this article. We have to follow the law, and Blago had the right to pick a senator to replace Obama.

It was foolish of Reid to say that he would not seat anyone. OK for him to call for Blago to resign, but not to refuse to seat a Senator.

Special elections, although nice theoretically, come with a very high cost. The government has to administer the election; the politicians have to raise money and campaign (out of cycle); people and companies lose time/wages/labor while going to vote. And this takes time, too, meaning that Illinois is not fully represented for a couple of months.

Burris Has Too Much Clean Laundry!
The democrats can't support Burris because he doesn't have any dirty laundry to bring to Washington D.C. Most of Obama's anti-American associates and appointees appear to have dirty laundry when they are ready to be anoninted by the Chosen One. Burris is not a part of that club, so they probably don't want him to play. After all, Pelosis spends about $6,000,000 jetting from home to Washington D.C. every year paid for by the American taxpayers. The U.S. Congress just gave themselves a hefty raise and went on vacation again during another economic crisis on the backs of taxpayers. And, a reporter of a major newspaper could care less about the abuse of our tax dollars that they're using and we're stolen from the American people or the socialist road we're headed down because she was enamored by Obama's glistening pectorals while the rest of the media was in love with his body. So, there you have it. The tax dollars are only for those who are chosen and are already in office or wealthy and know each other or someone knows somebody - I think that is a song - and nothing will change until someone in the Justice Department finally decides to uphold the laws of campaign financing; donations involving favors; valid birth certificates, and so forth, but don't hold your breath!

Impeachment, Conviction & Removal
So many of the "intelligent" commentators are saying, if he is IMPEACHED. What happened to Impeachment, Conviction AND Removal?

Talk about a quantum leap. The "brilliant" type seem to skip from press conference to good riddance in a nanosecond. How does "impeachment" alone prevent Blago from doing anything? Did I sleep through Al Gore's presidency within a presidency when Clinton was impeached? If an IMPEACHED President can continue his constitutional duties, how can Dingy Reid bar a DISGRACED Governor from naming a Senate appointment?

If Blago doesn't resign, he will likely be impeached, convicted and removed from the Governor's office. Until then, he is the Governor of Illinois and Dingy can keep putting his foot in his big, fat, stupid mouth.

Reid: Franken? Yippee! Burris? OMFG!

What a hypocrite!

William in CA
It seems socialist democrats are now suffering the same thing socialist republicans suffered. Whining and hand-wringing over the idea that someone could actually actively dislike their guy. Distress at the obvious lack of respect being shown their guy. Insults, name-calling, claims of corruption, claims of illegitimacy, blah, blah, blah, etc. ad nauseum. Gee this crap sounds remarkably familiar, didn't we just hear 8 years of the same crap from the left? Are not your statements the same as ones made by republicans during Bush's terms?

You wrote "Obama IS your President so you impress no one by claiming he isn’t. You WILL send him your money and you will NOT leave the country, participate in armed revolt or stop paying your taxes."

How wrong you are! You have not been paying attention! Money and wealth are already departing this nation in record amounts, the wealthy are also leaving. I suspect that in the next few years their will be a much larger number of ex-patriate Americans living abroad. Within the next 2 months I will be one of them, Obambi will not be my president, and I won't be paying US taxes or sending him my money. As far as armed revolt goes, I wouldn't count on that either, for the first time in many years I have seen the tone of discussions about the future of the US include serious discussion about revolution. I suspect that Obambi has changed his tune recently just because of that.

I support a short rope and a tall tree for about 95% of the criminal political class that inhabits DC.


DON'T TREAD ON ME!

on another front
Roland Burris is at least a selected Senator as Al Franken.

my 2 cents
You can't make this stuff up so let's enjoy it. What Blago did was legal and it was smart and it caught his fellow dems completely by surprise but it was NOT illegal.

His saying on tape what he wanted for the Senate seat was spuid but it was not

my 2 cents
What blago did was not illegal. he said he was going to do something illegal but he did not DO it, so he has not broken a law.

What he DID do was to expose democrats as the priceless chumps they are, especially in Illinois, home state of out prez-to-be.

And this is just the beginning

a curious thing...
...watching Harry Reid dismiss the newly appointed senator Burris from the state of Illinois.

Over the past two years the American public has been dished up persistent catterwauls from the Left (Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, et al), Democrats, Liberals about their allegations of "Culture of Corruption", the republican party.

However, I have not heard one reference to "corruption" in the past few months when we've been introduced to alleged corrupt behaviors by the likes of:
Charles Rangel
Chris Dodd
Governor Bill Richardson
Governor Blagojevich
Harry Reid's (wholesale dismissal of Illinois senator Burris)
William Jefferson's indictment
Governor Eliot Spitzer
John Edwards
Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick
Twelve Democrats in Philadelphia in July, 2008 (below)
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080711_Scandal_in_t he_statehouse__12_Democrats_face_corruption_charges.html
Eleven Democrats snagged in CORRUPTION CASE in New Jersey
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/08/a-closer-look-at-the-n j-democrat-corruption-case/

The list of RECENT Democrat corrupt politicians is longer than this. Has one mention of "Culture of Corruption", or, anything akin to same even been hinted at?
Not from the Left----it's simply, "Business as Usual"

clarityseeker...
don't forget the female Democratic Legislator (in Philadelphia?) that was photographed stuffing bribes into her Wonder Bra.

"We are a government of laws, not of men
The problem with that statement is that men make laws. The laws do not make themselves. Therefore, we are a government of men who can change the laws, subject to the approval of the court system who determines the constitutionality of each law passed. Ergo, we are a nation of men who draft, vote, and pass laws.

Burris was not chosen by any "legitimate, democratic procedure." He was chosen because of his cronyism, his loyalty to a corrupt man whom he gave at least a minimum of $10,500 in campaign contributions and served as chair of Friends of Blagojevich. That Senate seat was still bought and paid for. The Senate, all of them, now have an obligation to do the right thing and not seat Roland Burris. The laws in the Constitution allow the Senate to block this appointment and refuse to seat Burris.

Regrettable
What is a shame is that Illinois' population is not growing fast, and what increase there is is concentrated in Chicago and the suburbs. The downstate area is losing influence as their share of people decreases. That is why the Chi metro area keeps electing nitwits, for they have 50% or more of the people, and they love tainted, corrupt, and lowlife politicians.

Do it legally
Thus far, no one, including the Governor of Illinois, has been found guilty of anything. The Governor is completely within his rights to appoint Burris, and, as far as I can see, the Senate must allow him to take his seat. This process is not about moral purity; it is about legality and conformity with the Constitution.

To jim
No Jim, actually it's not that difficult to read, I suggest to you, that you consider whether or not your difficulty may be due to the fact that you are not as intelligent as you think that you are.

to pusherman
Honestly why do you speak (type)? You spoke of the laws in the Constitution but did not cite any, nor will you be able to as none exist. BTW the word you want to use powers not laws.

Chapman is SOOOO wrong
First of all, being a damned-Yankee from Illinois & a Republican to boot, Chapman should be familiar with the fact that the Republicans in Congress refused to allow the duly elected representatives of the southern states to be seated after the Great War of Northern Aggression. The house of Congress have done the same thing to individuals a number of times since.

The Powell case was wrongly decided by the Warren Court -- not exactly known as a bastion of constitutional orthodoxy. The lower court had it right - the case is not justiciable.

You see, the House of Representatives was not (and the Senate is not) amenable to a court order. If the court says to seat Burris & the Senate refuses, there is not a thing the court (or anyone else) can do about it. They can't hold the Senate in contempt. They can't lock them up. They can't install Burris at gunpoint. They can't do a damned thing.

In this case, Reid is right. They have the Constitution on their side.

Seating Burris
When the Supreme Court held that Adam Clayton Powell had to be seated they stated that the Congress could disqualify a person only for violations of the standards set forth in the Constitution. In the case of the Senate Reid could lawfully stop Burris from taking his seat only of Burris was under thirty years of age, had not been a citizen of the United States for at least nine years, and was not an inhabitant (citizen) of the state of Illinois at the time of his appointment. Since none of those qualifications appear to have been violated Reid has no legal authority to deny the seat to Burris. If he tries it Burris can take him to court and wipe up the floor with him. The fact that Blagojevich is under investigation makes no difference.

Race
I'm sick of Blacks being appointed to whatever because their Black. This man is not the most qualified. Obama won because he was Black. What a pathetic reason.

To Corbett
Sir you are so wrong on so many points. First it was Southern Aggression by the attack on Fort Sumter, and Second once we realized that slavery was in fact an vile, evil thing we had every right to come in and rescue our citizens from slavery, Citizens, not property. All the South had to do was give up our citizens. As to Reid having the Constitution on his side you are absolutely wrong, which probably why you failed to cite any particular section from it, as there is nothing to be found to support your statement. All qualifications being met, Article 17 applies.

No longer a nation of laws

The Burris appointment really illustrates how the concept is "a nation of laws" is just a myth.

First we have the Black politicians of Illonois stating any appointment by the Governor will be tainted and that the Governor should not appoint anyone.

Then the Governor appoints well known black man. All of a sudden the Black politicians of Illonois support the Governor appointing a replacement Senator.

So much for their integrity.

Like it or not there is only one Governor at a time and Gov. Blog is the only person in Illonois with the power to appoint a Senator.
Thats the Law!

Then we have the State's Attorney General refusing to follow the law and certify Burris.

Appearently this lawyer trained public servant doesn't care about our "nation of laws".

Next we have the Sen. Reid and the Democrats in Washington refusing to obey the law and seat Senator Burris. Again the senators don't care about "a nation of laws".

So anyone who still chooses to believe we are a nation of laws, I say, want to buy some swamp land?

Chapman is Such a Pansy
As usual, Chapman's insight is about as helpful as asking why everyone can't just learn to get along.

Sorry, but lecturing the Democrats on matters of constitutionality is an exercise in futility, since the last Democrat in Washington concerned with the rule of law probably left town before FDR was sworn in. Problem (for Republicans at least) is that it doesn't seem to harm the Democrats to behave as they do.

While silly little men like Chapman bleat on about quaint and increasingly irrelevent notions of constitutionality, the Democrats go along their merry way doing whatever the heck they feel like, with no negative repercussions whatsoever.

It is a waste of time to continue harping on constitutionality to a nation that either has no clue what it means or, if they did, are still perfectly willing to ignore it, so long as they get their payoff.

Why don't you either find something helpful to talk about Chapman or just shut up?

To Lenard
If you think the War was about slavery, you certainly know less about history than you know about the Constitution -- and your knowledge of the Constitution is abysmal.

The war was fought because people in the south believed in the Declaration of Independence -- they believed that a free people had the right to determine their own form of government. They also believed that states, having voluntarily entered the union, could also leave. Since several states had ratified the Constitution with that explicit proviso, this was a reasonable position.

The north was interested in keeping the south in the union because most of the taxes were paid by southerners & most of the federal money was spent in the north. Lincoln said he's introduce a constitutional amendment that would legalize slavery in perpetuity and abolitionists in the north supported secession because they knew it spelled the end of slavery in the south. (With the south out of the union, no fugitive slave laws would apply. Thus it would be too expensive to keep slaves.)

You should also reflect that no nation except the US needed a war to end slavery.

Do be so good as to know what you're talking about before you speak again.

To Lenard, continued
As for the Constitution, you may have heard of the "separation of powers". Clearly you do not understand what this means, so I'll explain it to you. (Don't feel bad, Earl Warren didn't understand it either.)

We have three co-equal branches of government -- the legislative, the executive & the judicial. By co-equal, we mean that no branch can boss the other around.

Now assume for a moment that Earl Warren was right & the courts could order the House of Representatives (or in the present case, the Senate) to seat someone. The branches wouldn't be co-equal, would they? There would be one boss -- the judicial branch. If the judicial branch could force the others to follow court orders, then all this "separation of powers" goes out the window.

Let's assume that the courts do order the Senate to seat Burris. How are they going to enforce the order? They can't arrest the Senators & hold them in contempt. They can't send in federal marshals to force the Senate to seat him at gunpoint. What can they do? Nothing.

This is what the appeals court had sense enough to say in the case Chapman talks about. But Warren never was very big on constitutional law. He was big on raw power & tried to usurp it in any way he could. But just because Earl Warren ignored the Constitution doesn't mean that we should.

To Publius4254
You say that if Burris took Reid to court, he's wipe the floor with him.

Pray, what can the court do if the Senate refuses to seat Burris?

They can make a ruling, but they can't enforce it. Are they going to hold the US Senate in contempt & lock up the Senators? Can't do it -- the Constitution specifically prohibits it. Are they going to send in federal marshals to force the Senate to seat him at gunpoint? Not hardly.

So what can they do?

here's another question for you. If we have three co-equal branches of government can one branch give orders to the others? Wouldn't that mean that the branches are NOT co-equal?

If, under our Constitution, ANY branch is the boss, it is the Congress because only the Congress can remove members of the other branches. It certainly isn't the judicial branch.

To Jeffersonian Constitutionalist
We haven't been a nation of laws since FDR. In fact, Lincoln destroyed our Constitution, so we haven't really had constitutional government since 1861.

But as for Reid refusing to seat Burris, it is the Senate's prerogative. He wouldn't be the first person they refused to seat by any means. "Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns & qualification of its own members..." And if the Senate determines that Burris is not "qualified", then they have a perfect right not to seat him.

Personally, I think he is as qualified as any of the other jackanapes in the Senate, but it's not my call.

Corbet & Removal from the Senate
"If, under our Constitution, ANY branch is the boss, it is the Congress because only the Congress can remove members of the other branches. It certainly isn't the judicial branch."

No. The Senate will, eventually, have to seat Burris, who has consitutionally-appointed by the Gov. of Illinois (warts and all). The only hope Reid has is to seat him and then seek removal for which he will need the approval of 3/4s of the Senate. Unless, it turns out that Burris paid Blago for the Senate seat, good luck getting 75 Senators to agree on anything.

To Denise
You make the statement that the Senate will eventually have to seat Burris. But you give no reason for that conclusion.

I'm saying that the Senate can do what the Senate wants -- and there is nothing the court can do about it. The court CANNOT order the Senate to seat Burris.

Questions for Corbett..fountain of
Knowlwdge!? Why do you suppose that Reid, who
in my opinion is no puritan of ethics,is opposed to Burris?
What is a jackanapes?
Are you the supreme source on the Constitution?
I will admit Iam no Costitutional expert,but I have read many peoples comments that seem to be
sharper than me but they don't agree with you
on some matters !
As for the civil war- you and others make interesting points but Iam a little more studious on that subject. Yes, money matters
played one of the roles but not the only matter as you must surely know!
As for your somewhat veiled sarcasm and air of arrogance it is demeaning to a person of your knowledge ! Just cool it! Because I enjoy reading your comments but when you start
slamming others who disagree...it is a turn
off!
elvis

see what grade you get.

Lenard Location: MD
Reply # 15
Date: Jan 5, 2009 - 3:03 PM EST
Subject: To jim
No Jim, actually it's not that difficult to read
====

Turn in an English Comp paper with a sentence like that and see what grade you get.
===========

Article 1, Section 3
No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, and been nine years a citizen of the United States and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state for which he shall be chosen.
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