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Sunday, August 03, 2008
Steve Chapman :: Townhall.com Columnist
Rx For Economic Pain: Deal With Reality
by Steve Chapman
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Former Texas Sen. Phil Gramm got in trouble when he said Americans are mired not in an economic contraction, but a "mental recession." He soon had to step down as co-chairman of John McCain's campaign for committing the ultimate political sin: telling the truth about a misperception that happens to be very popular. In politics, after all, it doesn't matter who's right -- it only matters who has the most votes.

Americans feel as though the economy is in a recession and want the government to do something about it. In reality, it is expanding. In the second quarter, it grew at a respectable inflation-adjusted rate of 1.9 percent, double the pace of the first quarter. Unemployment was up, but it's still a pretty mild 5.7 percent.

The recession cures being bandied about by the presidential candidates and others miss the real source of our current pain and what can be done about it -- which is not much.

"There's a great misunderstanding of what's happened," says economist Allan Meltzer. The main trouble, in his view, is not that Americans are suffering from weak or negative economic growth. It's that they have suffered a loss of wealth, a very different ailment.

Meltzer, a professor at Carnegie Mellon University and a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, explains that the loss stems from two major factors. The first is high oil prices, which are the equivalent of a huge tax increase. The second is the housing bust, which has vaporized more than a trillion dollars worth of assets.

What does all this mean? Our standard of living has declined. Or to put it bluntly, as Meltzer does, "We're poorer than we were, and it's unpleasant, but it's a fact." We can no longer afford all the things we used to, because so much of our income is now going to pay for gasoline.

In the past, we might have cashed in our rising home equity to keep consuming at the same rate as before, but you can't do that when your home equity is shrinking. Plus, we are under pressure to save more, since we can't count on real estate profits to finance a comfortable retirement.

When the economy contracts, the government may use sound monetary and fiscal policy to help revive growth. But when wealth goes up in smoke, the government can't necessarily bring it back. If it tries, the effect is likely to resemble what happens when you give a recovering alcoholic a drink: deceptively pleasant at first, but ultimately calamitous.

In the 1970s, the Federal Reserve reacted to soaring oil prices by creating more money and spreading it around. When you have more money, it doesn't hurt so much to fill your tank. But when everyone suddenly finds themselves with more money, the consequence is inflation. In the 1970s, instead of seeing just the price of gas climb, we saw the price of everything climb.

Today's Fed faces the same temptation. It could ease today's discomfort by rapidly expanding the money supply, and some experts (including Meltzer) think it has already made that mistake. This course is particularly tempting because it could also keep home prices from falling further.

But the remedy is illusory. Homes are not worth what they used to be, and for the Fed to attempt to disguise the fact would create even more uncertainty in a turbulent market. That, in turn, would merely postpone the day when prices hit the inevitable bottom.

When you have a loss of wealth, the best way to cope is to accept it and adapt to a lower standard of living, sooner rather than later. Sending out rebates, eliminating gas taxes, bailing out homeowners and accelerating monetary growth, among the proposed remedies, do exactly the opposite. They spare us the obligation of dealing with reality by making us feel richer so we can keep on as we were before.

But they don't change the stark fact that we are poorer now and will remain that way for some time. And they ultimately backfire by wasting money, igniting inflation or both.

In the long run, we will adapt to the new realities, the economic impact will moderate, and the pain will fade. Till then, our least destructive option is to do something no politician would dare suggest: Suck it up.

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About The Author
Steve Chapman is a columnist and editorial writer for the Chicago Tribune.
 
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America is being destroyed by design
The thugs that run the economic and monetary system Ben Bernanke, Hank Paulson, Barack Obama, and John McCain are purposefully trying to destroy the United States of America and its currency.

They want to destroy the dollar and create hyperinflation in this country.

Cheerleaders like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Neil Bortz, Andrea Mitchell, and Wolff Blitzer are nothing but a bunch of Benedict Arnold parasitic whores for this socialistic / facist, illegal alien loving government.

Screw Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Neil Bortz, Andrea Mitchell, Wolff Blitzer and the US congress....



So Sam
What is your solution?

So Sam
Forget Sam:

His third paragraph by itself shows him to be a "...glittering jewell of colossal ignorance"

Solution..
Tell congress to take their bags and leave Wahsington..... Democrats can turn off the lights and Republicans talk in the dark.

What a joke the congress and our elected officials are.

Is our country supposed to be slap stick comedy for the rest of the world?

Maybe Nancy Pelosi will marry a "HORSE" in the house of representatives floor. Or will Harry Reid propose his gay marrige with "BARNEY FRANK" on the house floor. Is that legal? Why of course its Washington D.C. If 30 million illegals can come into the country why not Harry Reid get married with Barney Frank. Two gay lovers.

Propose your marrige Harry Reid to Barney Frank. I bet Harry Reid likes to play footsie in the bathroom with Larry Craig. The United States is becoming the "laughing stock of the world".

......

Sam
Many of us here on these threads support gay marriage you scuzzy bigot.

Many gay soldiers are fighting right now (this second) under "don't ask, don't tell" to give you the luxury of lively freely in GA and posting your bizarre, incomprehensible posts.


Learn to write a solid, straightforward sentence without the bellyaching while you're at it. Present your case without the cheesy histrionics. And stop dissing gay marriage (remember that brave gay soldier fighting so you have the freedom to scribble your 2-cent opinion on a 2nd rate website).

Obama Has A Yellow Streak
LATEST NEWS FLASH!!!

"Obama Backs Away From McCain Debate Challenge"

It seems the Messiah has a yellow streak running down his back.

After that debacle he had in his last debate with Hillary, I'm not surprised that he is refusing to debate McCain on the ISSUES.

...that and his inability to support ANY ONE SIDE of an issue from one day to the next...

Steve Chapman writes,

"Americans feel as though the economy is in a recession and want the government to do something about it. In reality, it is expanding. In the second quarter, it grew at a respectable inflation-adjusted rate of 1.9 percent, double the pace of the first quarter."


----------------------------------

This is a (willfully?) devious description; devious by the omissions.


"Americans feel as though the ecomony is in a recession..." There it is again... IT'S ALL IN YOUR MIND. Higher gas prices, higher grocery bills, paycheck totals remaining the same.... IT'S A MENTAL PHENOMENON. Banish these negative thoughts and the problems will simply go away!

"In reality, it is expanding.... it grew at a respectable inflation-adjusted rate of 1.9 percent" - That 1.9 percent "expansion" was actually supposed to be much greater. BILLIONS of dollars in "stimulus checks" flooded U.S. mailboxes, a stimulus to restart and rev up an ailing economy. BUT AVERAGE AMERICANS PAID OFF CREDIT CARD DEBT AND PUT IT INTO THEIR GAS TANKS instead of buying the latest piece of hip technology or spreading it around the mall.

That 1.9 percent "expansion" was actually a failure. All economists expressed disappointment. It was intended to STIMULATE. We barely managed to beat the lousy first quarter EVEN THOUGH WE FLOODED THE CONSUMERS WITH CASH. Trying to "SPIN" this bad economic news for the sake of making a feel-good political point, playing politics with the economy, is smarmy and devious.


You are proving yourself to be one more conservative hack writer, Chapman, writng what you think is expected of you instead of laying it on the line and telling it like it is.

Half right
The unwillingness of politicians to undertake constructive action to deal with economic problems is the stuff of legend and has been for decades. In fact they created a lot of problems by practically mandating financial institutions to engage in affirmative action lending (aka sub-prime mortgages). Add to that the homeowners who irresponsibly tapped into equity to finance day to day living expenses and the result is a highly leveraged housing market. When prices are rising, such a condition can be manageable, but the housing market like the overall economy is cyclical ie what goes up must come down & vice versa. Over the last 20 years or so home prices have risen steadily overall with a number of areas showing price inflation that would make a bannana republic's currency look stable. Rising prices are the result of demand increasing faster than supply and these "hot" markets also saw a building boom that enabled supply to catch up to demand, and usually overshoot it. When this happens, downward pressure is exerted on prices.
The author cites a vaporization of assets, but that is just on paper. Only a small percentage of us actually sell our houses and that is the time when gains or losses are realized. Of those sellers, almost all show a gain, particularly if they owned the home for any length of time. Remember, every transaction has two parties, the buyer and the seller. In the recent past, the sellers had the advantage, but today in many but not all places the pendulum has swung back to the buyers' market territory. Also,in the past half century, I've seen such large swings at least three times. BTW no evaluation of the economy is universally applicable. Even in boom times there are failures and in a bust, some profit handsomely.

Ranger29
And you are obsessed w/ McCain....

That is something to laugh about...

....

They never understood that what goes up
MUST come down. Unless you are in outer space.

Its the Boomers who know this because we had Depression Parents who beat it into us, that you have to know how to *live poor* for the times when it will be necessary. You have to know not to invest your sense of self in belongings, to make your self-worth dependent upon appearing at a certain restaurant or watering place every year or every day, or clutching that starbucks cup in the elevator, or paying $3.50 for a pound of Politically Correct Butter Substitute instead of 99 cents for the store brand. You have to learn how to walk to a nearby church if you cannot afford to take the subway or drive to your regular church. And you have to learn, above all else, that nothing lasts forever.

If there is nothing you can do, hunker down until things change again, for they certainly will.

That is what Generation Whine never learned and their GrabbyBaby offspring who are making their lives a living hell because of it are simply pounding the nails into their self-esteem.

A house built on sand will fall when the winds nd storms beat against us. Too many of the Generation Whiners are discovering that because they were taught that there are no losers, only winners, their houses are built on quicksand.

will
You completely misunderstood this column. He said that there isn't a recession, BUT that we have another problem: less wealth. Nowhere did he say this lesser amount of wealth was all in our minds. The whole point of his column was to argue that having less wealth is not amenable to government action. One could quibble about whether the expansion is actually a recession, but that's a side point. His main point was that we have less wealth and the solution is not, as you suggest, to "banish these negative thoughts," but "to accept it and adapt to a lower standard of living."

Sheesh!

Oncealwaysa Marine
Don't stutter Marine. Tell us what you really believe.

Whether or not
one agrees with Chapman's analysis, his proposals for dealing with reality are bang on. I join JFP and AudiR10 in remembering that these cycles come and go. The virtues of savings, of steering a middle course, of investing for the future, of living within your income provide a financial flywheel for times like now. We are coming off 25 years of continuously expanding prosperity fueled by the Peace dividend collapse of the USSR and the productivity kick of the computer revolution. Our economy is now up against grim reality caused by arrant foolishness by govt and the general population alike. This is America, and there has been plenty of opportunity for the wise and foresighted to be ready for a hunker down period. We ants will do ok. Its going to be a long tough winter for the grasshoppers.

will
No, "many" of us on these threads DO NOT support "gay marriage" (whatever that is) YOU and the other Left wing looniessupport it, but the majority here are still in their right minds.

Within means...
Surely this "loss of wealth" won't lead people to live within their means...saving and spending cash only, without borrowing, may actually come (back) into vogue...

Pistol - post #16.......
BULLSEYE

We've Been Duped
Phil Gramm was right, in a sense, when he said that the current ecomomic downturn was "mental". He certainly didn't mean that the downturn in the housing and mortgage markets is all in your head, or that fuel prices aren't high. In a large part, it's the mental outlook of the people that drove us to this point.

The economy rides on the confidence of investors and consumers. The Democrats and their media have made it their agenda to play down the economy at every turn, ever since President Bush took office in 2001. For example, when the stock market hit 10,000 during the Clinton years, the media showered Clinton with accolades, all but crowning him as Lord. A good economy is a good thing when a Democrat is President.

In contrast, as the market hit 12,000, and 13,000 and up, during the Bush administration, the media gave the news a brief mention followed by comments like "...despite the rosy picture, other economic indicators are not so promising...blah, blah...jobless recovery...blah blah...", or they would follow with a story about layed-off workers to reinforce the sense that only the rich benefit from such economic good news.

A couple of years ago when the economy was really ticking along, we were constantly bombarded with the "poor economy" mantra from the left. Now that the Democrats have control of the House and Senate, and consumer confidence has hit the skids, guess what? It's still Bush's fault!!




We've been more than duped.....
We've been more than duped. We have been lied to by politicians, especially the liberals / Democrats so openly I cannot understand how anyone believes anything that comes out of "Washington"! The only thing that should come out of Washington are all the Politicians. And we should get replacements for all Republicans & Democrats; but only after we completely change the terribly broken "political system"!

Chapman is wrong
Chapman says there's nothing the government can do about the current economic problems. That's wrong.

The biggest (by far) economic problem we have is not the real-estate meltdown. That's painful, but it was coming. Bubbles always burst sooner or later.

The biggest problem we have is this energy-shortage thing. Even Chapman realizes that if all your money's going for gas, you can't buy anything else. High energy prices will end up ruining not only the US economy, but the world economy.

This shortage is the government's fault. The gov't didn't make the shortage -- the shortage is caused by worldwide economic expansion coupled with OPEC's strangle-hold on world energy supplies. But the gov't is preventing solutions to the problem by barring building nuclear plants, barring oil drilling, etc., etc., etc.

The gov't should not only get out of the way of energy production, they should encourage it by extreme tax breaks and whatever else it takes. If they had taken the mega-billions they mailed out in the "stimulus package" and used it to build giant coal liquefaction plants, they would actually be doing something about the economic woes.

No, it's not that the government can't do anything about the current economic woes. It's that they WON'T do anything that's the problem.

Ooooh little man, good civics lesson.

F- for you! LOL

ranger hal
The right wing is responsible? You blithering idiot! The right wing, as you call, them has been warning against bloated governmennt, government intervention and empowering the government to do anything other than what is specifically enumerated in the Constitution since the mid '50's. Who fought against Social Security, MediCare, Medicaid and every other looneytoon socialist piece of nonsense since the '30's? Huh? Genius! Go ride your rocking horse ranger hal.

The solution
In 2004 all of the commodity markets skyrocketed. This was the result of the Bush administration/Federal Reserves' policy of weakening the dollar by printing more of them. They falsely assumed that you can correct a trade imbalance by trashing your own currency. Many foreign governments, who have tied their currencies to our own, have urged this administration to strengthen the dollar, but to no effect. The best way to correct a trade imbalance is figure out what you have the most of, and produce and market it. Guess what? We lead, or are near the top globally, in reserves of oil, coal, an uranium. But the liberals in ALL branches of the government over the past several decades have seen to it that we can't recover, develop, and sell it!!! Politicians !!!

The solution
In 2004 all of the commodity markets skyrocketed. This was the result of the Bush administration/Federal Reserves' policy of weakening the dollar by printing more of them. They falsely assumed that you can correct a trade imbalance by trashing your own currency. Many foreign governments, who have tied their currencies to our own, have urged this administration to strengthen the dollar, but to no effect. The best way to correct a trade imbalance is figure out what you have the most of, and produce and market it. Guess what? We lead, or are near the top globally, in reserves of oil, coal, an uranium. But the liberals in ALL branches of the government over the past several decades have seen to it that we can't recover, develop, and sell it!!! Politicians !!!

economic cure
One Tax and Done can become law by writing a single bill:
Effective December 31, 2008, all existing federal taxes, fees, and charges are repealed, and are null and void.
Effective January 1, 2009, all federal tax revenue shall be collected using a single full-income tax levied on living persons. there shall be no exemptions or deductions. There shall be no spending in excess of tax revenue except to fund the national defense during time of declared war.
A three-fifth (3/5) majority vote by the Senate and the House of Representatives is required to increase tax rates.
Sixteen percent (16%) of all tax revenue shall be placed in a separate account not accessible to congress, to fund Social Security and Medicare.
The official definition of income is this: Income shall include, but not be limited to, wages, salary, tips, royalties, stock options, inheritances (not including primary family residences bequeathed to spouses; or family farms or small family businesses bequeathed to family members), all interest including that from municipal bonds, dividends, capital gains (not including increase in assessed value of family home), pension payments, welfare payments, food subsidies, clothing subsidies, housing subsidies, all benefits and perquisites of public office, profits received by owners of small businesses, and proceeds from all criminal actions.

Nation of Whiners? Suck it up? Not!!
The truth? Yes, people should try to prepare for rough times, however, they are not whining when gas prices have risen to the $4.00 mark, other prices are also rising partly as a result, and they are working their butts off, unlike politicians, particularly members of Congress, who just left on another 5 week vacation!
And for Phil Gramm, a former member of this institution, who still gets all the perks and has lived off government at taxpayer expense nearly his whole adult life, to say we are a nation of whiners, is incredibly galling! He should have said that Congress is an institution of whiners. That would have been more correct.
Phil Gramm is just plain wrong to have made that statement. Jusk ask Newt Gingrich.
We may not be in a recession, but the economy is like a drunk man on a tightrope who, so far, has just enough mental clarity to barely stay on the rope, but his is teetering from side to side a lot lately. People are concerned and rightfully so.
And, rather than telling the American People to "Suck it up" both politicians, and commentators of all stripes should be presenting and supporting viable solutions. And they do exist!
One, is the Fair Tax. Implementation would get rid of the Income Tax altogether. This would give an instant raise to workers and employers, which would spur tremendous economic growth.
Another solution is to drill now in Anwar and off our shores, as well as develop all forms of energy now. In otherwords, "Fire on all cylinders" where energy independence is concerned. As for relief being ten years away, if we delay, relief will still be ten years away, so let's start now, so that ten years from now, we will see relief. Oh, and actually, coastal drilling, per oilmen, will get us some relief in only two years.
All we need is politicians who will stop whining, and actually work, and listen to the American People, instead of vacationing at our expense!

Herbert Hoover Economics
Chapman gives us the typical Herbert Hoover approach to economic recession and depression: wait for the boom of the business cycle to reappear. Unfortunately, most Americans who need immediate relief do not have the big money and savings that these right wingers and neocons appear to have. Chaka Z.

What's Wrong with Savings?
Chaka Z,

Yeah, I have some savings because I don't spend my money on dub deuces for a leased Cadillac Escalade that gets 10 mpg. What's your solution, to raid the stock of those who have lived within their means during boom times to reward the profligate spenders?

Chaka
Since I see you're also a Kansas, I looked at today's Hutchinson News a bit ago...there are nearly 3 full pages of help wanted ads, including many that would be part-time or weekends...anyone around here not making it because of high gas prices needn't blame the governemnt...they can simply go to work and make enough to pay for what they want on their own...

chaka zulu: misconceptions about Hoover
Hoover was not the do nothing president that our teachers have made him out to be. As president he signed into law the Smoot-Hawley tarrif, which greatly exagerrated the effects of the depression. Chapman is right. We need to suck it up and weather the tough times. Governmet interferece has never made things better, just prolonged the inevitable suffering, or made it worse. If the liberals in congress would push for agressive oil drilling, deregulate the process of building refineries, and push for the development of nuclear power as a source of electricity, then there would be no "energy crisis". If the Bush and the Federal Reserve hadn't started printing excess dollars in 2004 to cheapen the currency, then we wouldn't have the inflation that we do. To ask them to interfere in any other way is to compound the problem. They just need to fix what they've already broken, leave industry and business alone, reduce some of the taxes and regulations, and the recovery WILL hasten.

Maybe Congress Has it Rightr

Some $1 trillion in market value of American real estate and mortgages and their derivatives has evaporated. That's $1 trillion we no longer have to pay back.

We paid providers for goods and services in dollars. The providers took those dollars and invested them in our mortgages, sold in bundles of prime, mixed with subprime, borrowers, termed collateralized debt obligations. The subprime borrowers, as planned, reneged on their promises to repay the mortgages. The CDOs are now sold for about 22 cents on the dollar.

Now we should rejoice about the losses of "sophisticated" investors, bcause our government's con job relieved us of our obligation to make good on these dollar I.O.U.s which our creditors foolishly lost in the market.

We set up instability via 125% loan to value mortgages. so that when these borrowers defaulted, a $1 trillion excess profits tax could be levied on all holders of our dollars who invested in our real estate paper. We have taught investors to buy American corporate assets, not real estate CDOs, to thereby obtain safety, profits, and the added advantage of representation in congress via K Street..

However, we must now limit the damages if the dollar is to continue as the world's reserve currency. If that goes we can no longer levy world taxes via dollar inflation.
That means helping out borrowers who, with a little help, can pay a loan 3% to 5% on peak market value, thereby preventing foreclosure so that a new buyer can pay exactly the same mortgage payment at 65 as the old buyer could pay at 3%-5%.


Illusions and Card Tricks
Set aside the talk for a moment, and just look at the trends. Since 2000, the federal budget increased from $1.85 trillion to $3.25 trillion. Deficits and debt increased from $5.2 trillion to $9.6 trillion. The balance of payments/trade deficits increased from a previous high of $100 billion/yr in 97 to $800 B/year in 06 & 07. The dollar which purchased 1.2 euros 5 years ago, now purchases only .66 euros. The cost of fuel increased from $25 per barrel to $125/$150 per barrel. The costs of health care have increased by 78% over the last 8 years. Food costs have also risen more rapidly than peoples income. These are facts - not fiction. We now work for government until July 15. These are all records - and none of them are good.

Now, boomers have started to retire, and when the 75 million have retired over the next 15 years, costs of entitlements as a proportion of the federal budget will increase from 40% to 60%.

Illegal immigrants flooded into the US as we made no meaningful effort to enforce our immigration laws. Since most are poor and unskilled, costs of services have risen for state after state, and in 30 years, 1/2 the US population will be non-Europeons, and 1/2 of those will be hispanice.

Neither McCain nor Obama, nor the GOP or the Democrats, have had a single substantive discussion about what to do - nor how to do it.

The partisans are simply whistling in the wind. The three largest sources of new jobs are 1) health care due to agin population which increasing numbers can no longer afford; 2)government employment, due to the most rapid expansion in spending in our history; and 3) trade - which is a result of a dollar that has lost almost 1/2 its value in the last 5 years. And which, if we strengthen the dollar, will decline again.

And this is supposed to be a "healthy" economy.

It's all about illusions and card tricks.


Classic Conservative Talking
The fact is that during the good years incomes were flat for the middle class. People who had the same jobs a few decades earlier could rely on their defined benefit pension plans, but industry with the help of their Republican Freinds in Congress were able to push changes that allowed industry to design pensions that protected them more then their workers in generated great fees for wall street. Banks smarting from the housing crisis are relauctant to lend either to qualified home buyers or to small businesses and that is dragging down the economy and the stock market. This is a triple whammy for those people near retirement.

They cannot rely on the appreciation in their homes for retirement income. Their pension plans that were tied to stocks are worth less, and the cost of everything related to gas, food, and other goods have been rising sharply. Meanwhile McCain is proposing tax cuts that would put most of the cuts in the hands of the top wage earners. Obama's plan instead gives more to middle income wage earners and has less of an inpact on the deficit. By the way none of the people who got us into this mess will have to return one penny of the money that they made for example steering people who were eligible for FHA loans into riskier and more expensive subprime loans. The officers of Banks who fail or are baled out will certainly leave with fat Golden Parachutes.

People at the bottom and the middle will bear the brunt of Capitalism gone wild (Enron Loophole)Phil Gramm style.


We've only just begun
"Americans feel as though the economy is in a recession and want the government to do something about it."

Americans feel the way they do because st present there is a lot of uncertainty about where we are headed as a nation. As long as that is the case, people are going to be concerned and feel insecure about their future.

Then when all you hear from politicians and the media is how bad things are, is it any wonder people are in a funk about the economy. Phil Gramm's great error in judgment was not so much telling the truth about our economic reality as it was telling the American people that their sense of angst about our economy is unfounded, that it's all in their head and to quit whining.

The real truth is that those in office are afraid to tell us the truth. They don't want to have to answer for the mess we're in and for the tough times that are headed our way.

Steve
I am always amazed by Americans,who think that they understand economics.China has growth of 9.7% and they are facing a "Recession".Yes,even in an "Olympic" year.I don't know when the American Economists are going to start factoring in "Globalism" and it's "Affects" correctly.I "Hope" very soon...

Dems solution to S.S. and Medicare
Mother nature has joined with Pelosi and Reid to institute the Dems. solution to the nations entidlement programs. The 2 aXXXX in congress will not let any form of energy cost reduction plans to be voted on. Mother nature gives them a heat wave, and guess what the old, poor and disabled have started to die. That with universal health care will insure there is no problem funding both progrms. Vote Democratic- kill off the old and infermed-remember one day you will be old if you do not contract a dehabilitating injury or disease in which case you will be given physician assisted suicide.

Economy sucks
The government does nothing to help the American Citizens... We would be better off if we did NOT have to support these millions of illegals in our country who think WE owe them a living..and all the free services. We pay out more and more in taxes for our over crowded schools, our packed hospital emergency rooms etc. STOP paying for free services for these illegals and we'd save billions.
Why would we want to build more refineries when the ones we have are NOT working at capacity now. Diesel fuel has increased so much in price because our oil companies have cut back on how much they produce...Also trying to make it lower sulfur. They created a mess with the gas and their prices. WHY do we need 3-grades of gasoline and diesel...why not produce only 2 grades of gas diesel and save our oil!! I see no benefit for 3 grades of gas.

Right On Dave M.
Subject: So Sam
Forget Sam:

His third paragraph by itself shows him to be a "...glittering jewell of colossal ignorance"
Yes, Sam's third comment does show him to be ignorant. If he did some real research; he'd find that his claim has no basis whatsoever, especially concerning Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly.
I can appreciate your off the cuff honesty, reality and sarcasm too.
Lyndsay

Chapman's list
The author just gave us a long list of what is wrong. But he forgot to put in one more missing piece. The enormous deficit fueled mainly by Bush's voodoo economics. His big tax cut and fighting a war at the same time. One of the reasons we pay more for gas because our dollar is so weak.



Vodoo Economics, WOW....................
chicaree
Location: OR
Reply # 1
Date: Aug 4, 2008 - 5:35 PM EST
Subject: Chapman's list
The author just gave us a long list of what is wrong. But he forgot to put in one more missing piece. The enormous deficit fueled mainly by Bush's voodoo economics. His big tax cut and fighting a war at the same time. One of the reasons we pay more for gas because our dollar is so weak.
..... Who doo, the Vodoo in Economist. Bush, Bush, No Congress. Yeahhhhhhhhhh .............
I take it you hated your Stymulus check so much, that you sent it back to Washington, right!
I take it that, you cannot understand why your paying so little in taxes to live in this great nation. You offered to pay more anyhow, telling them you did not need the extra buck or two you got.
While not agreeing with the why we are in Iraq, I fully support our troops, sons daughters and friends over there. Do you or are you an only child isolated from any harm.
Oil prices have risen in regards to the demand and use of it. Today we have two nations with bigger populations than us, but nearly as many automobiles and theirs are growing in demand for them.
So it is a sellers market and that is that, right. WRONG!
Had Congress not blocked OSD for Oil infavor of sandy beachs only 6-10 people see at any one time. We today would have been producing enough oil to satisfy our needs and this shouting and screaming would not be taking place.
Had Congress pushed to auto industry to stick with the fuel economy deadlines they accepted, we would not be here. Had Americans invested in the big three instead of Honda, Toyota, Nissian and Mazda we would have not gotten here.

Don't be so sure...
"In the long run, we will adapt to the new realities, the economic impact will moderate, and the pain will fade. Till then, our least destructive option is to do something no politician would dare suggest: Suck it up."

We have two political candidates who clearly want to be a "significant" president. That means more and more spending, which is what put us in this economy to begin with, under Bush. I expect the government to push up inflation even higher after the election, so that we'll probably see $200 a barrel oil within six months. I mean, they just passed a mortgage bail out bill, right?

Recession or Not...
You folks are arguing over whether we are in a recession or not...the point is moot. The question should be, can the government, through more programs, actually help? Many Americans are under some delusion that by pulling more dollars out of circulation and then redistributing a portion of that to others who did not earn it(yes, only a portion...the agency in charge of the program will take a big chunk)will somehow help the economy. If you believe government regulation, subsidies and programs are the cure, please examine the historical data on countries such as France, China, USSR...or just look at the shape of certain areas of the US which have more government intervention. The government will only shrink the GDP through additional taxation. We must reduce expenditures if we want to climb out of the hole.

Oncealwaysamarine

YOu said it all. And got it right.

Scary world.

Chicago Realism at its Best
Try taking peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to work. There's protein; there's something for your sweet tooth; and a little practice--some of us will need a lot of it--in self-control.

SELF DISCIPLINE.

sacrifice...The pre-mature martyr in me loves that word...

Minky, Post#28
Great post and you're absoulutely correct. Here's a prediction: if Obama gets elected, the economy (and the war) will all of the sudden get better, at least according to the MSM.
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