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Sunday, May 18, 2008
Steve Chapman :: Townhall.com Columnist
Unwise Haste on Gay Marriage
by Steve Chapman
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In the old story, a preacher gives an inspiring sermon, which he concludes by asking his congregants to stand up if they want to go to heaven. Everyone rises except one nervous-looking fellow. "Brother," asks the incredulous pastor, "don't you want to ascend to paradise when you die?" Says the holdout: "When I die? Sure! I thought you were getting up a group to go right now."

That's pretty much how I feel about the California Supreme Court's decision granting the right of same-sex couples to marry. The destination is a good one. I just wish the court weren't in such a hurry to get there.

In recent years, the country has been moving at a steady pace to affirm a once-unthinkable concept -- namely that as a matter of both individual rights and social good, gays should be free to make the same commitments as heterosexuals. According to a 2007 CBS News/New York Times poll, 60 percent of Americans now support allowing same-sex couples to enter into civil unions or marriage.

Radical changes don't happen overnight. But the speed of this one has been impressive. It's been only 22 years since the U.S. Supreme Court said states may criminalize homosexual conduct. It's been only 15 years since the Supreme Court of Hawaii shocked the country by ruling that gays might have a constitutional right to marry.

It's been only eight years since Vermont became the first state to admit same-sex couples to the rights and responsibilities of matrimony through civil unions. It's been only three years since California followed suit by letting gays enter into domestic partnerships.

But all of a sudden, the justices have discovered that their state constitution not only allows but requires that marriage include homosexual couples -- even though in 2000, 61 percent of the state's voters rejected that option.

The majority is not always right, and in that instance, I thought the majority was wrong. But democracy doesn't say the people will always be right. It merely says they have the right to decide most matters of public policy. Here, by contrast, the California Supreme Court says the citizenry has no right to define marriage the way it has been defined by custom and law for eons.

At stake was not whether gay couples may acquire the rights and duties of marriage in a state-sanctioned framework. As the court acknowledged, they can already do so under the domestic partnership law. But it's not enough for them to get the substance of marriage. The court said they must also get the same terminology.

It reached this conclusion through a lot of philosophizing about "the right of same-sex couples to have their official family relationship accorded the same dignity, respect and stature as that accorded to other officially recognized family relationships." But the state constitution (like the federal one) does not traffic in mushy terms like "dignity" and "stature." When a court puts such heavy reliance on amorphous concepts, it telegraphs that it will not be tied down by the actual words of the state charter.

For further proof, consider that while the California constitution forbids discrimination on the basis of "sex, race, creed, color, or national or ethnic origin," it does (SET ITAL) not (END ITAL) forbid discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. The justices somehow found something in the document that the authors thought they omitted.

Prudence and caution, which are virtues in the executive and the legislative branch, are no sin in the judiciary, either. What those attributes dictated here is that the court give civil unions a fair interval to show their merits or flaws in practice, rather than rushing in to pronounce them inadequate.

The justices would have been wise to mark time while the people of California continued on their path toward full equality for gays. Instead, the court has practically exhorted them to stop the journey. Opponents of gay rights have mounted a drive to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot in November, which stands a good chance of passing.

The exercise may end up not only overturning the Supreme Court's presumptuous decree but hardening public attitudes against the whole idea for years to come. In time, Californians would probably be inclined to embrace gay marriage. But if you insist they go there today, don't be surprised if they refuse.

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Steve Chapman is a columnist and editorial writer for the Chicago Tribune.
 
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You WANT it?
You just want homosexual "marriage" a little later? Who is this character Chapman writing rot like this on a conservative website?

Marriage redefined by judicial fiat
"Gays should be free to make the same commitments as heterosexuals." They have always had this right. There is no sexual orientation test for marriage in California or anywhere else."

However, every state has an eligible-marriage-partner test. To be eligible, the partner must be an adult, consenting, unmarried, nonrelative of the opposite sex.

Marriage is a mating relationship, like hooking up and cohabitating. The difference is that marriage is a mating relationship with a commitment to permanence.

What the CA Supreme Court decided, imposing their personal opinions over the existing law, was that marriage should include a non-mating relationship. That misses the whole point about why states honor marriage--we want to encourage mating couples to make permanent homes for their children.

Since marriage now means, in effect, any relationship any number of people want to call marriage for any reason, how can legal marriage now be denied to siblings, groups, or mere friends who perceive a tax benefit?

Couples who have been together
for 10, 20, 30, 40+ years....

Should not have to wait any longer.

Chapman's Strange Slant???
You think it is a good idea for later, even if the majority is against it, but when judges (lower case)
who apparently think like you do, force it on everyone...

Now it is bad?

What kind of pseudo logic is this?

Minus Stars?
Hey, townhall, please give us a mechanism for minus starts!

"Calling Steve Chapman", this is Huff'n'Puff, you will be happier on our site!"

"Calling Steve Chapman", this is "moveyourbowellson.org, you will be happier on our site!"

Please tell me this is a complete spoof, ala "Loyal Democrat" style.

I love how 6 out of the 7 judges
on the CA Supreme Court were republican appointees, and then republicans call them ACTIVIST JUDGES. That ACTIVIST governor (Ronald Reagan) was one of the culprits who went around picking those losers!

Thursday's victory for gay rights was MADE POSSIBLE with the help of Ronald Reagan.

Will, will make his will known...
Such perseverence!

Regular as clockwork.

I feel sorry for you, up to the point where you try to force others to declare your sad state as normal.

I cannot declare your condition normal, but I will pray for you to see the light, and accept Jesus as your savior.

So, DailyKos has bought out TH . . .
. . . who knew?

RINO's on parade.

The majority WAS right.
"The majority is not always right, and in that instance, I thought the majority was wrong."

Why, exactly? What is right about homosexuality? What positive does it contribute to society? Diversity for the sake of diversity is not necessarily a good thing.

I have homosexual associates and friends. I like them. They're respectable human beings. I hang with them. They sometimes come to my home and enjoy our hospitality. But I will not condone their sexual proclivities (no more than I would straight adultery, fornication, or the committing of incest).

Look, whether you use a Biblical argument or a Darwinian one (e.g., the first generation of any species born homosexual would become naturally deselected), the normalization of homosexuality does not seem to have any positive benefit. It is not equal to heterosexuality. Anyone saying that can not back it up. Heterosexuality is the reason our species has been able to exist through the millennia. Again I ask, what positive does homosexuality contribute to society? To the species? Nothing. We exist and persist as a race IN SPITE of it. It is a dysfunctional behavior, no matter how "beautiful" it might seem to the homosexual. It is simply not equal to heterosexuality.

If people are really concerned about keeping the gov't out of the bedroom, then how's about keeping the bedroom out of gov't? If the gay lobby's so concerned about people judging what goes on behind closed doors, then why don't they keep it behind closed doors and stop shoving it down our throats in the wide open? The gay lobby would get more sympathy from me if they did.

Who knew?
Six out of seven Ca SC judges appointed by Republicans. Just proves you can't trust a lawyer. There are signs that after the debacles of the last 40 years, conservatives are finally waking up to the fact that the constitution can be saved only by selecting strict constructionist judges. I doubt McCain knows this, or maybe he just doesn't care.

Its the law
Its called, The equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_protection.

Historically our government under the guidance of the genious of the founding father always proceeds the people in the practice of the proposition that, "all men are created equal".

In this time when the religious fundamentalists of America are taking us backwards as fast as they can we need the courts more than ever to protect the rights of all American and to continue the American practice of continually broadening and not restricting the rights of all Americans. I am proud today to be a Californian.

Hastening toward Gomorrah
Oh yes! Let's hurry to get homosexual marriage approved in all 50 states so that we can start the next attack on societal morality. Let's see...who/what will we be wanting to legally marry next? Multiple partners? Family members? Children? Pets? Don't laugh. The door has been kicked open. The camel's nose is under the tent. Traditional marriage is under attack and losing on just about all fronts. We had better learn to love the smell the fire and brimstone in the morning.

Gay Marriage
I am rather unconvinced that it is a proper function of the government to sanction marriage. However, it is a proper function of government to protect children by encouraging stable families. Where is the ethical and moral balance struck?

I am persuaded that there is a genetic component to homosexuality. Clearly, any such gene must be recessive. The benefits this characteristic might confer to siblings, cousins, etc. is not clear to me (or, evidently, any substantial consensus of researchers).

Finally, it is my observation that homosexual relationships seldom demonstrate the stability (and concommitant "success") of a heterosexual marriage.

This is a curious subject and worth some study. I solicit comments and suggestions for further investigation.

speed in gay marriage
sometimes speed in getting married is essential even if the couple os a traditional. in the case of the gay couple one or the other may be pregnant and they want to be sure thr baby has a legitimacy..

Professor

This is just plain silly,

"it is my observation that homosexual relationships seldom demonstrate the stability (and concommitant "success") of a heterosexual marriage."

Of course Gay relationship are not as stable as heterosexual marriages, THEIR NOT MARRIED.

One of the benefits of marriage to loving couples and our society in general is that it makes relationships more stable.

Understand. Any comment.

By the Courts?
Has California and America become "We, the people, by the courts?"

writeone
No, California and America has been, from day one "We, the people, by the courts?"

Here is how it works:

The Constitution and The Bill of Rights define how our government works and guarantees us certain freedoms.

The people vote for their representatives who pass laws that are favored by the people who voted for them.

The courts make sure that the laws passed by the representatives do not violate the rights guaranteed by The Constitution and The Bill of Rights.

Its called Democracy and its designed to protect Americans from people like you who think they should have the right to decide how other Americans live their life.

Marriage is a Government-Run Institution
So, why is everyone all up in arms? You CANNOT get married anywhere in the country without getting a state-issued marriage license. This license is what really consummates a union. Whatever ceremony you have (religious or not) is another affair.

Whatever attributes and additional significance people want to attach to marriage is irrelevant. If two adults want to get married, I say let them. No one can quantify or provide a single shred of evidence to support the notion that a "traditional marriage" is in any way harmed by a gay couple getting married.

The only "harm" comes from irrational emotions.

murraba
Ask a stupid question again, no matter HOW many times you get told!

1. Being gay isn't a choice, like religion is. Sexual orientation is fixed. And you being confused by a person PASSING, still doesn't mean THEY changed. They just had a compelling reason to fool you.

2. Restrictions on marriage have been based on status. As already closely related, already married or not old enough. Period. The accepted concept of marriage to make two non related, consenting adults primary kin, does NOT CHANGE with a GAY couple marrying.

3. So bringing up anyone or ANYTHING else that can't consent (including an additional spouse to the two) is stupid. Don't anybody else bother to ask the same tired and stupid question, ok?

4. The justices acted well within their powers and are not doing exactly what they had to. Prop 22 was bad law, and the STATE nor any of you has a compelling reason for the ban. Sorry, 'we don't like THAT kind of sin' isn't legitimate in CIVIL marriage. And neither is 'they can't procreate'.
Specifically because this isn't stopping anyone who can, nor is there ANY infringement on the freedom of any other citizen to marry.

I think Chapman is Correct
The lawsuits brought in California were expected but short sighted. I too am a firm believer in equal protections and equal treatment for all. However, there is a sizable number of people who cannot move beyond the yuck-factor of gay sex, and thus oppose anything that give gay people a shred of dignity.

I fear that there will be a backlash and it will blow up in the organizers' faces to the ultimate detriment of gay people. Of course, the backlash will have lots of help from homophobes, false information and distortions from the Family Research Council and other rabid anti-gay groups, etc.

I agree that the majority is not always right (global warming being an example) but the will of the people has to be respected. Quickly over turning a voter-approved measure is very risky. Doing so in a cavalier manner leads to hurt feelings and outrage which often leads to more bad laws with worse effect than the original.

The issue is...
...the preservation of our Republic.

Even if all but one Californian voted to treat one subset of human beings differently than another subset of human beings, they would still be wrong. We are indeed fortunate that sometimes our courts do, albeit seldom and narrowly, rule in favor of freedom and justice.

justice is as justice does
Okay, so heterosexuals set up the institution. It's not like it used to be, even 40 years ago.
Things will and MUST change. And no matter how muc opposition you have, what COMPELLING reason is there that isn't applied to heterosexuals?
Procreation? Heteros who don't or won't can marry.
Sinners? All manner of sinners can marry, regardless. And not just once, but once and again.
Children are better off with married parents? Agreed, but being a man/woman model isn't always or necessarily THE BEST. Because heterosexuality doesn't indicate CHARACTER or the ability to raise a houseplant.
Being married parents PERIOD, gives children security and support, gay or not.
Because marriage IS life and love AFFIRMING, there is no compelling reason to ban a gay couple from that intent and purpose. And the reasons you give, are contradictory, hypocritical and not equally applied.
They are not. And the courts have ALWAYS had to step in when fairness and justice failed for suspect minorities.

civil rights history lesson
Some of you really need to go back to school and learn about civil rights and human rights, and you really need to learn about gay people a lot better. Your ignorance is deadly.
When these long time couples get married, and the whole world sees it. And the voters get their way in November to DIVORCE these couples, then you won't be able to blame gay people for not being legally married or wanting to be, will you?
And such actions against couples who deserve to secure each other and their children, will look mean in spirit and risky for them in practice. And the gay children that will be born into your family won't thank you for turning the clock back on marriage and family not seen since slavery. Because it's not only going to affect gay people any more than racism only affected blacks.
We all lose when you enact laws for the sole purpose and distinction of ANIMUS and fear.

GGGman
The legislature (representatives of the people) voted TWICE to allow gay marriage and EXEMPT any religious institution that didn't want to marry the couples. The governor vetoed in until the CASC voted because litigation was pending.
At EVERY level of legal process, the issue has been decided. 'The will of the people' wouldn't have gotten a LOT of milestone human rights issues right.
So trusting the will of the people on this was impossible BECAUSE of the obvious animus towards gay people. That's precisely the point. You can't allow laws to go through with that animus at their foundation. And the Constitution requires a number of protections, and these are legitimate for gay citizens as well. The state attorney (representing 'the people') had no compelling argument. And 'the people' don't either.
I was there among a huge number of gay people to rally in West Hollywood. There were many I'd known for years, a good many with their young children in tow. These are the gay couples most on this thread don't really see and don't want to know. And making law from what you don't want to see and hear is even worse. The justices aren't making their own rules. They are calling out 'the people' on bad law. And 'the people' need to realize it and quit piling on bad law after bad law designed to exclusively complicate the lives of gay people.

let no man put asunder....
When the couples marry...don't vote to divorce them.
What would that make 'the people' look like then?
And what exactly will doing such a thing do for marriage at large? This is actually progress in the right direction. They held flags in a ceremony that allow legal marriage in other countries and MA...and guess what?
No adverse affects to society or children.
But the adverse affects of NOT being able to marry are well documented. In fact, a lot of people do mention those adverse affects all the time.
It's no longer a theory what would happen if gay people could marry.
Why discuss this as if it is?

Scriptural Context Not Complete Without
sssteverrr

...these:

As Paul states in 1Cor6:9 "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

and, as Jesus Himself said in Matthew 19:4-6: “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”


Pentagon balked on gay partner travel

Should tax payers pay for this?

Politico-Prior to the Easter recess, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was forced to intervene with Defense Secretary Robert Gates in order to get Democratic Rep. Tammy Baldwin’s domestic partner on a military flight for a congressional fact-finding trip to Europe.

The speaker succeeded, but the issue continues to simmer for both sides. The Pentagon appears to be self-conscious about transporting gay domestic partners at a time when it continues to enforce a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy in its own ranks. The speaker is sensitive to the gay rights issue but doesn’t want to be drawn into a situation where it appears she is dictating policy for the use of military planes.

Under House guidelines, members of Congress may take their spouses with them on military flights if there is room for them and when it is “necessary for protocol purposes.” Although Baldwin, the only openly gay woman elected to Congress, exchanged wedding vows with Lauren Azar in 1998, her home state of Wisconsin does not officially recognize same-sex marriages, and military officials were apparently unwilling to consider Azar a “spouse” within the meaning of the House guidelines.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/pentagon-balked-on -gay-partner-travel