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Thursday, July 12, 2007
Steve Chapman :: Townhall.com Columnist
Myths of the War on Terrorism
by Steve Chapman
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For anyone who has grown complacent about the danger of terrorism, the incidents in London and Glasgow were supposed to provide a jolt of reality. As former federal prosecutor Andrew McCarthy put it, "these foiled attacks are best understood as new rounds in a long, global war, provoked by the challenge of radical Islam." Here was proof that the jihadists are still out there, ready to strike at the moment of their choosing.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff clearly agrees. On a visit Tuesday to the Chicago Tribune, he said he has a "gut feeling" an attack may be imminent. "The intent to attack us remains as strong as it was on Sept. 10, 2001," he declared.

Well, no one in that job is ever going to say the danger has been overstated. But the truth is that intent and ability are not the same thing. Though, al Qaeda may -- emphasize "may" -- still have the capacity to mount the occasional major operation, that doesn't mean terrorism should be treated as an omnipresent, existential threat.

In reality, this fight bears only a faint resemblance to a real war. Only rarely can al Qaeda and its imitators manage a strike against their prime enemies, Britain and the United States, and even more rarely can they succeed. Like the alleged terrorists who planned to attack Fort Dix and JFK International Airport, the perpetrators in Britain were not trained professionals but bumbling amateurs.

On Sept. 12, 2001, it was easy to believe that we would suffer dozens of major attacks on U.S. soil over the next six years, and almost impossible to imagine we would suffer none. Instead of being the opening blitz of a "long, global war," 9/11 was a freak event that may never be replicated.

In a real war, such as the ones we are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, many people die, week in and week out. But John Mueller, a national security professor at Ohio State University, notes that in a typical year, no more than a few hundred people are killed worldwide in attacks by al Qaeda and similar groups outside of war zones.

That's too many, but it's not a danger on the order of Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union or even Saddam Hussein. It's more like organized crime -- an ongoing problem demanding unceasing vigilance, a malady that can be contained but never eliminated.

By framing the fight as a global war, we have helped Osama bin Laden and hurt ourselves. Had we treated him and his confederates as the moral equivalent of international drug lords or sex traffickers, the organization might not have the romantic image it has acquired. By exaggerating the potential impact, we also magnified the disruptive effect of any plots, which is just what the terrorists seek.

We do further harm to ourselves by accepting government actions we would never tolerate except in the context of war. Recently, a federal appeals court threw out a lawsuit challenging the National Security Agency's secret surveillance of phone calls made between the United States and foreign countries.

The judges' reasoning was right out of "Catch-22": You can't sue unless you can prove you've been wiretapped, but you can't prove it because the wiretappers won't tell you. The government abuses its power secretly, in the name of national security, and the secrecy protects it from having to end the abuse.

Crime is a serious national problem that used to be even worse. At the height of the mayhem, more than 24,000 Americans were murdered annually -- a Sept. 11, 2001, attack every six weeks. Yet even when the toll was at its worst, we insisted that police respect the constitutional rights of suspected criminals. We maintained the limits on the power of the president and other law enforcement officials to investigate and imprison people. For the most part, we kept our perspective.

After the World Trade Center came down, by contrast, we let ourselves be convinced that many restrictions were an unaffordable luxury. Any concern for civil liberties was met with the retort: "We're at war." And in war, anything goes.

The 9/11 attack was a crisis that has largely passed, but no one in Washington wants to admit it. It's politically safer to depict the danger as undiminished no matter how long we go without an attack. But someday, we will look back and ask if we were acting out of sensible caution or unfounded panic.

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Steve Chapman is a columnist and editorial writer for the Chicago Tribune.
 
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It's a new kind of war. stop fighting th
the last one.
Mr. Chapman says, "this fight bears only a faint resemblance to a real war."

Correction: in recent centuries, nation-states fought nation-states, especially in the West, where our own worldview was forged.
In Christianity there has always been a separation of church & state. Jesus said, "render to Caesar the thing's that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And "My kingdom is not of this world." Before them, Israel separated kings & priests. Then they practiced Judaism under foreign rule.
When Christianity was formed, Christians had no political power ao it wasn't an issue. Even after Constantine, there was a constant tension of who had what power, secular ruler or cleric.

In Islam, their prophet was their king and general. Muslims do not distinguish between mosque and state. Theoretically, there can be many "Christian nations", but only one Caliphate.
There's them & us. One Us, one infidel.

There is one war fought be a united enemy against any and all the rest.

That is why you see "foreign" fighters in various battle fields. In the west we wonder what dog they have in that fight cuz they are from another county. In Islam the country doesn't matter. It's the "ummah", it's muslim lands.

That's why Israel matters so much. In the west we notice that there was no formal state there before Israel, so let 'em be. Muslims look at the whole general territory to be Muslim land. A lack of a functioning nation with a government is immaterial.

That is why we don't know what to do woth Gitmo. What nation are these guys from? Who could surrender and declare an end of hostilities?

That is why we don't know what to do about the Geneva Conventions. They were designed for nation-state treaty signatores. But who are these guys we are fighting?

They say generals tend to fight the last war. I think that's what we are doing. We are judging this one by the definition of war as we have understood it. Where is the equivalent of Japan or Germany? I think that ancient Chinese book, "The Art of War" says, "Know your enemy."
We need to understand them better and take them on their own terms.

So, Mr. Chapman, This is a real war, but it bears faint resemblance to receent ones. Deal with it.

Interesting piece, but..
there's that pesky little nuclear dilemma. We could foil 19 such plots, but if that 20th one goes off....holy moly! It could dwarf 9/11.

I agree the war on terror has been oversold, and when it's fought in such a heavy-handed instead of a more covert way, we inevitably come off as the bad guys. For example, how did we get to the point where the jihadists can decapitate and hang our innocent civilians while we self-loathe over Abu-Garabe?!!

Our monolithic Department of Homeland Security is a joke wasting billions of our tax dollars and leaving us insecure.

Militant Islam is not going away. We definitely need to fight smarter.

Saudi Arabia - Iraq - Glasgow
Although raised in Baghdad, Dr Abdulla was born in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, where his father, also a doctor, worked. He has several relatives in Cambridge, some of them associated with the university. In Baghdad, however, he is remembered as a figure from whom classmates kept their distance. "By high school he was known as a WAHHABI," said one former classmate. "He was a SUNNI EXTREMIST." ... He was in the flaming Jeep which rammed Glasgow airport on Saturday and sources said police also suspect he was one of the men who brought the failed car bombs into central London on Friday.
- by Ian Cobain and Alexandra Topping from The Guardian

Read more about the growing influence of Saudi Arabia and its support of militant, extremist, Wahhabi (Salafi) Islam at my blog, Wahaudi.
http://wahaudi.blogspot.com

Mr. Chapman is a fool,
Fortunately, we have other sources of information regarding the likelihood of further attacks. It's also interesting to note that when such an incident happens again, he will be among the missing when owning up to his prognostications. He will ignore his bad calls rather than admit his errors.

Mr.Chapman is probably to young to remember the number of terrorist watch list people floating through the United States during the late 1970s and 80s, none of whom were caught nor even noticed until sometime after the fact of their entry and exit of the country. Con ducting mostly fund raising operations, we think...

No, Mr.Chapman is an expert, without portfolio, who listens but doesn't hear and observes but doesn't see. Except what he wants to. But evidence to him is out of place and has no meaning because he doesn't recognize it for what it is or somehow wishes for it to be something other than it is.

How could it be otherwise? How can he ignore, out of hand the number of incidents involving the killing of Americans worldwide for two decades, by the same people, supporting the same causes? How can he ignore the two attempts to destroy the towers, one of which succeeded?

It's easy. It's simply his version of don't ask, don't tell. So the problem no longer exists...

But it does exist and is coming and shall not be contained and is larger than any threat we have ever faced and requires solutions we are not yet willing to consider. I say yet because most of us don't yet have dead family members resulting from terrorist actions. When we do, if we are allowed the realization and we will, if slowly and very grudgingly, these things will change and a new attitude will than be present in the land.

Then let them (the polit-media) try to manage that!

Quite sad actually that dead bodies of innocent family members are required to reorganize a nation's priorities and shut down propaganda of the socialist media and politicians.

One further point. This is a war, declared by them against us. Their actions are acts of warfare, targeting innocent civilians who have done NOTHING, to deserve it. The enemy has thereby declared himself outside the normal boundaries of simple criminal behavior and should be given all the quarter they show their victims. None.
Those who defend or excuse them should be done the same as pollution to the gene pool.

1 thing right:not a war on terrorISM
I'll stipulate the article's title is good, "Myths of the War on Terrorism".

An "ism" is an abstract noun.
"War on Terrorism"
"War on Poverty"
"War on Drugs"
All abstract, metaphors.

Real wars have real people really shooting real bullets at other real people who really bleed.
Oh sure, nothing increases life expectancy like increasing wealth. So statictical people statistically live statistically longer in the abstract war on poverty.

But this is not a war on the abstract terrorism or terror. This is a shooting war of agression by actual Islamic radicals and we, the rest of he world, are defending ourselves in Iraq, Bali, NY, Dafur, Chechnya, London, Israel, Afghanistan, London, Somalia, Spain, Lebanon, Holland, Glasgow, Pakistan, ...

Credibility
Obviously terrorism is a danger. But the Bush administration has politicized so much, and subverted our laws to such a degree, that his credibility with most Americans is gone. Certainly any credibility that Bush/Cheney ever had with me, and it was never much, is totally shot. If Colin Powell said we need to stay in Iraq, I would believe him. I don't believe anything that comes from Bush/Cheney.

This is a real war
"In a real war, such as the ones we are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, many people die, week in and week out. But John Mueller, a national security professor at Ohio State University, notes that in a typical year, no more than a few hundred people are killed worldwide in attacks by al Qaeda and similar groups outside of war zones."

That's only true because we fight the terrorists and thwart their plans. You're advancing basically the same argument that Michael Moore made, that you're more likely to be struck by lightning than killed by a terrorist. Lightning is closer to a random game of chance than an intentional attack aimed at innocent civilians. It's like saying that the President is more likely to die of natural causes than from assassination, so we should stop all the Secret Service fuss. That argument also ignores the fact that major terrorist attacks like 9-11 have greater impacts than just body counts; they undermine confidence in our safety and hurt our economy. Even a greater number of smaller-scale attacks can be devastating, as most Israelis would agree.

We also have to fight to prevent terrorists and their state sponsors (current or potential) from acquiring chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. It's interesting that Mr. Chapman never once mentioned the words chemical, biological, nuclear, or WMD. He has to know that the mere thought of such weapons blows his entire case right out the window.

----

"By framing the fight as a global war, we have helped Osama bin Laden and hurt ourselves. Had we treated him and his confederates as the moral equivalent of international drug lords or sex traffickers, the organization might not have the romantic image it has acquired. By exaggerating the potential impact, we also magnified the disruptive effect of any plots, which is just what the terrorists seek."

No, we have finally recognized that an enemy has been fighting a war against us for many years, even if that enemy is stateless, although certainly not entirely without aid from some states. International drug lords and sex traffickers exist to make money; violence is their method of maintaining power, not their goal. Terrorists do what they do solely for the purpose of killing infidels for Allah. The only reason terrorists have a "romantic image" in the eyes of Muslims is that their religion glorifies martyrs who kill those who refuse to submit to Islam.

I think you've succumbed to the apathy that results from five years of successfully preventing another 9-11 attack. It doesn't seem like such a big deal now. But imagine the impact of a coordinated chemical attack all across the NYC subway system. Even worse, a nuclear attack on NYC or DC - or both. I'd put that on the same level as the Nazi and Communist threats.

MikraT
"... how did we get to the point where the jihadists can decapitate and hang our innocent civilians while we self-loathe over Abu-Garabe?!! "

Ask moveon.org, Michael Moore & the MSM's like the NYT and CNN.

HalO
"...in the end the Irish terrorists were brought to heel: not by punitive war on the Republic of Ireland, not by endless sweeps and raids on Ulster villages suspected of harbouring IRA guerillas, not by aerial bombing, but by a slow, patient combination of police work (lots of infiltration and informing), the offering of political alternatives and a hearts-and-minds campaign to persuade sympathizers that IRA gunmen were bad guys- criminal racketeers feigning to be revolutionary liberators."

Sorry, but the Irish terrorists were pikers when compared to the Jihadists. When you have 26% of young Muslims saying that terrorism and suicide bombing are OK to get the Islamic agenda accomplished, the sort of police work you point to will not do the job.

And the current situation is quite different for another reason. They are everywhere. Not like the IRA that was holed up in a basically surrounded enclave. The fact that they can run around the world unfettered because of PC BS will make them impossible to stop using *law enforcement*.

Lestat
Excellent post!!

near misses don't count

this article--along with much of the liberals' ideology--would be a complete joke if any of the unsuccessful attempts to kill hundreds or thousands had been pulled off.

apparently a lot Americans won't take terrorism seriously until far more people have been "successfully" murdered.


Craig C - simply wrong
"Sorry, but the Irish terrorists were pikers when compared to the Jihadists. When you have 26% of young Muslims saying that terrorism and suicide bombing are OK to get the Islamic agenda accomplished, the sort of police work you point to will not do the job." BS the Irish catholic support was way above that in 70's just do a bit of research

"And the current situation is quite different for another reason. They are everywhere. Not like the IRA that was holed up in a basically surrounded enclave. The fact that they can run around the world unfettered because of PC BS will make them impossible to stop using *law enforcement*."

Where do you get your information? Comic books or Rush? Even FOX isn't this dumb. The IRA helped the Israelis with training when they were fighting Britain, they helped the PLO, the various 70's terrorist organizations, they helped South American drug lords I could go on and on. They are an excellent analogy to the current terrorist threat and how to defeat them. Please just try to let a little reality seep in....

For Chapman to consider the...
appropriate response to the Wahabi threat to be equivalent to normal policing - is badly mistaken.

Sure, we have way more murders than terror casualties. But these are virtually all individual acts, not concerted efforts by a group. The war we are in is not of our choosing, but it is a war. The enemy wants us to convert or die. What part of "war" does Chapman not understand?

What brought the IRA to heel? Dilligent and continuing police work no doubt helped, but was not sufficient. The IRA found themselves in the same class as al Quida, bin Laden, and company. They lost the support of the public - which is essential for an organization like the IRA.

And... the IRA and their supporters saw the Republic to the south doing well economically, while the continuing violence in the North adversely affected both sides. "Cutting off your nose to spite your face."

The Islamic leaders see their youth attracted to the West, to freedom and a better life - particularly the youth in Iran and Pakistan. These leaders may well have provoked conflict with the West to rally their youth to their "traditional values."

If so, does that mean we should ignore the many provokations? I don't think we can. Any more than the fireman can ignore a call he thinks may be a false alarm.

CIA Said Instability ‘Irreversible’


CIA Said Instability Seemed ‘Irreversible’

Does anyone think a strong federal government will take hold in Iraq? Why do we keep pushing the strategy knowing it is not working?

WP-Early on the morning of Nov. 13, 2006, members of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group gathered around a dark wooden conference table in the windowless Roosevelt Room of the White House.

For more than an hour, they listened to President Bush give what one panel member called a “Churchillian” vision of “victory” in Iraq and defend the country’s prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki. “A constitutional order is emerging,” he said.

Later that morning, around the same conference table, CIA Director Michael V. Hayden painted a starkly different picture for members of the study group. Hayden said “the inability of the government to govern seems irreversible,” adding that he could not “point to any milestone or checkpoint where we can turn this thing around,” according to written records of his briefing and the recollections of six participants

“The government is unable to govern,” Hayden concluded. “We have spent a lot of energy and treasure creating a government that is balanced, and it cannot function.”

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/cia-said-instability-seemed-irreversible


Elsinore660
"If so, does that mean we should ignore the many provokations? I don't think we can. Any more than the fireman can ignore a call he thinks may be a false alarm."

Who says ignore? An invading army did not defeat the IRA. Reason, time and a combined approach did. All Bush did with the support of so many here was to play right into the terrorist hands and aid them at every turn with Bush missteps which probably explains why we have not be attacked to date but with Bush now in disgrace all bets are off.....

Phylo
"Thank you Steve Chapman for the most sensible article I've read on the issue of terrorism in some time."

That is why I suspect you get get few posters here.

Our occupation
HalO: "Occasional terrorist outrages are a fact of life in most developed countries that try to push Third World ones around."

redstatesdrink2muchkoolaid: "So many of you tin foil hat guys are still on board with the War on anti Zionism. HalO had some valid points but he did not highlight the essential issue that created the American Revolutionary's, the IRA and virtually EVERY terror group through time, occupation."

How often do I have to say this? India suffers terrorist attacks not because it is occupying something. It itself was occupied. It suffered from (among other things) Islamic imperialism. Yet it is the Muslims who are terrorizing India.

And what about terrorism in Bangladesh? Or Thailand? Or the Philippines? Or the murder of Theo van Gogh?

Get a clue, people. They want to conquer us. Complaints about occupation are just an excuse.

The problem with writing a column ...
...like this is if the jihadis detonate a nuclear bomb in LA this summer Chapman will look real silly.

Hope
Maybe if the next attack takes place in Chicago, this guy might notice. He'll probably write a column blasting the administration for not doing more to prevent it.

Elsinore660

Quoting you:
""The Islamic leaders see their youth attracted to the West, to freedom and a better life - particularly the youth in Iran and Pakistan. These leaders may well have provoked conflict with the West to rally their youth to their "traditional values.""

This is one of the most accurate statements ever made in these columns/posts. It is THE reason all these things are happening. The low intensity warfare, the call to jihad, the roundup of boys and young men to study the Koran or at least portions thereof. The emphasis on the non person of women is a rallying cry easily understood by males in any culture and creating allegiance and conformity.


Wisolman

An A bomb in LA would be terrible and no one wishes that, but it would certainly be harder still on "La Raza" and company.

It's no big deal (?)
This is an interesting point of view. It seems to me that it was the approach taken during the 90's, and in my view it was a reasonable one. UNTIL it became evident that the activity was not only repeating but escalating. Mr. Bush decided not to just do more of the same. For better or worse, he decided to try to start the process of a systemic remedy, rather than simply "responding proportionately" to attack after attack.

The author proposes we deal with it as organized crime, which would undoubtedly be stunningly successful (?). I'm not sure that they fall under our laws, but that's perhaps irrelevant (?).

The author says that AlQ hasn't really killed all that many people. Many Americans thought that 3000 in one day was too many.

Some here seem to be saying that we should just get used to it as a fact of modern life. Many Americans won't even put up with a defective toothbrush, but never mind that.

Maybe it's really no big deal (?)

CIA and Stability

John Konop reports:
“The government is unable to govern,” Hayden concluded. “We have spent a lot of energy and treasure creating a government that is balanced, and it cannot function.”

This is an accurate picture even though incomplete. Simply put, if you want a government that works in Islamic lands, you don't look for balance. That is a western concept and doesn't function under Islam. The caliphate or any similar government is based on strength and fear and Islam of which there are two branches. You don't balance them, you separate them or subdue one to the other as Saddam did.

Why has Washington been so blind for so long.??.


Overlooking a few points . . .
It was during the '90s that terrorism grew exponentially. And how were we dealing with it? The Clinton Administration treated it as a law enforcement issue and everything was done through the civilian courts. That fact flies in the face of the bulk of this article -- Chapman is proposing that we go back to that. The government is now applying more resources to the effort (including intelligence) and, if we allowed prosecutions to be done in the civilian courts, that intelligence network would be exposed and the terrorists would be able to figure out how to defeat them.

In late 2001 to early 2002, most of the public was demanding that President Bush do something about it (to the point that Democrats were afraid to go against it) and some Democrats were pounding the table about him not being able to "connect the dots" so therefore he was complicit. Okay, things are now restructured so that the dots can be connected and the same people are pounding the table about the police state. If you want these terrorists setting up shop in your neighborhoods, fine -- I don't.

And BTW -- the British Army was used against the IRA.

Hal Donahue says...
"Who says ignore? An invading army did not defeat the IRA. Reason, time and a combined approach did."

Not sure what your "combined approach" would include? Military action? No military action? Against whom?

I have yet to hear anything specific as an alternative to continuing the War in Iraq. "Redeployment" indicates what you want to stop doing. It does not say what you will do. Besides, "redeployment" really means "surrender."

You may feel that "reason" or "time" may help to dispel the Wahhabi threat. Are ya gonna bet your life on that?

Shortly after 9-11, we visited our daughter and family in Virginia. One of their neighbors was a nice Turkish couple - both PhDs in Economics. He was born here, but moved to Turkey, then returned to the US.

Of all the Muslim countries, Turkey is one of the more accepting of Western ideas. Even so, a discussion of 9-11 with the Turkish PhD wife included her statement, "There were not that many Muslims killed in 9-11."

Implication: The deaths of however many non-Muslims was relatively inconsequential.

She was well-educated, and had experienced the US personally. Do you really think "reason" or "time" would have an effect on her?

Nevermind the many who have been indoctrinated in the Wahhabi madrassas.

You might just as well sit around the fire, pass the peace pipe and sing another round of Kumbaya.


TROUBLE IS...
Were not fighting this as a global war.
Put the bombers over them and drop em till
they plead for statehood.

A better way to do things
I would like to start seeing damage estimates on the terrorists. I don't know exactly what they are, but I would be willing to bet that they are far higher than ours. But since we are only told about our casualties, it gives the impression that all we're doing is dying over there. It makes it difficult to measure any progress and some people lose heart.

onceamarine
" Why has Washington been so blind for so long.??. "

They haven't been blind. Well some of them have but many of them have known about the threat for years and deliberately ignored it.

Why? Well you see there are these investments, and business leaders that really believe, to this day I might add, that interdiction of any kind is counter profitable and not in their interests. They've done everything possible to keep us from dealing with the problem and that does include the manipulation of politicians, both democrat and Republican.

The cool thing about it is that if the public ever realizes this reality, the blame will not be shared by the Democrats since they are, connected at the hips with the socialist media and entertainment industries. And socialists protect their people and causes even if it kills an inordinate number of innocent people. Their ascent to power and idealogical triumph is their highest cause. Just as business interests are inclined to pursue profit, regardless of the damage incurred by preventing effective actions.

How much money is your niece worth? Is the life of your niece worth the political triumph of socialism? To you the answer is that there is no price high enough, she is of paramount importance....

But your aren't the one deciding this issue in either context. the truth is that if either were worried about your niece, many other things would have happened by now to insure her safety.

Is Chapman dumb enough...
...to actually believe this garbage?

Islamic terrorism against the United States was treated as a law-enforcement matter throughout the 1990s. Our flacid response to these attacks only served to embolden our enemies. The end result was a smoking hole where the World Trade Center used to be, and 3,000 innocent American civilians dead.

By now, there shouldn't be a thinking person left in America who thinks dealing with Islamic terrorism as a law-enforcement problem is the right way to go. Heck, the Islamofascists view this as a war--why shouldn't we?

The fact that this isn't a traditional conflict, where the enemy wears a uniform and marches in straight rows, doesn't mean it isn't a war.

Stephen Chapman's columns were worth reading, once upon a time, but he's gone completely around the bend. Now he's only worth reading if you want a good laugh. This column isn't just bad, it's completely ridiculous.


Phylo
Likes la-la-la land very much...

ADD
Steve, it's obvious ADD has griped the press and apparently you have been hit harder than most. I hope I didn't wake you?

Hal Donahue
I'm not wrong about the IRA. They were pikers. How many were there? In numbers? 26% of 1 billion Muslims is two hundred sixty million.
Law enforcement will help, but governmental (military) action is essential.
Last time I checked, the IRA didn't drop two of the largest sky scrapers on the planet into piles of rubble, ever.

BTW, this isn't the first time that the Islamics have become this dangerous. They started ravaging the Middle East and Europe in the 7th Century, AD. And there was no United States presence in the Arab world back then, right?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

If you check out what happened back then, it was military action, not police work that did the job, eventually.
Remember that shootout in North Hollywood, California back about ten years ago? Two guys with automatic weapons held of a couple of hundred LAPD police officers and wounded several before they were taken out.
Most police forces are not prepared to face an enemy who is armed like soldiers.

Phylo
"al queda is nowhere near the threat that Bush and Cheney have made them out to be. We' took care of the Nazi's. We took care of the Soviet Uniion. We can handle these two bit thugs."

You are correct. The US has the ability to take care of the *two bit thugs*.
But do the people have the will? There is a huge difference between WWII and now. The country was galvanized behind a popular president who was able to take advantage of Japan's stupid move of bombing Pearl Harbor.
More people were killed in the 9/11 WTC attack than the US lost at Pearl Harbor.
But this president has not been able to keep the country focused on the terrorists.
One big reason is, of course the Iraq thing. I personally thought that it was OK to go into Iraq, but not at the time, or for the reasons laid out by the Bush administration.
Strategically, however the Iraq situation has been quite effective, IMHO.
If what is needed is to kill Islamic terrorists, what easier way is there but to invite them to an area where they voluntarily concentrate into what the military terms a *killing zone*?
It sure is easier than tracking them down in their mud huts and caves.
Sure, it seems that there are so many now, because of the US presence in Iraq. But that may be an illusion. There is no real proof that those who are there fighting against US forces would not have done so anyway, in some other venue, by some other means.
Unfortunately, there are too many speaking against the WOT, with the Breck Girl even calling it a *bumper sticker slogan*.
When the public hears such ridiculous statements, and those statements are not controverted by the MSM's....well it seems another 9/11 type event will need to happen.
But the chance that the next 9/11 will be far worse is very great, and unfortunately almost a certainty. The bad guys see what is happening on the home front, and realize that all they need to do is persevere and the US will quite likely end up with *leadership* that views this situation the way you do. Isolationism has never worked for the US in the past, and with today's high tech world could prove to be fatal.
God Help The USA.

Elsinore660
"You might just as well sit around the fire, pass the peace pipe and sing another round of Kumbaya."

Great post. They will be doing the Peyote thing, methinks.

ballisticdodge
Great post.

ballisticdodge
That's the point. That's why you'll never see any serious reporting on the effect we're having on terrorist groups; any report of success helps the Bush administration, and the press considers the Bush administration a greater enemy, and more dangerous to the US, than it does the terrorists.

If you want to know what's happening in Iraq and the war on terror, you need to read blog sites. Keep your eye on http://counterterrorismblog.org/ from time to time, on http://www.michaelyon-online.com/, and visit the milblogs sometimes (try http://www.mudvillegazette.com/milblogs/ for a starting point.) You will NEVER get that story from the US press.

Oh, and none of the leftists who visit here will ever be bothered to read any of those sources. They love their ignorance.


forgot to cut and paste

Phylo
"You guys all sound like a bunch of hysterical little girls. Oh please Mr. Bush keep me safe! Keep me safe!"

And people like you sound the same way about global warming.

"al queda is nowhere near the threat that Bush and Cheney have made them out to be. We' took care of the Nazi's. We took care of the Soviet Uniion. We can handle these two bit thugs."

Essentially right, Phylo, except that to do what it takes to handle the "two-bit thugs" would enrage all the liberals and leftists (who basically control our media). Think about how enraged they were that we didn't protect a museum in Baghdad. A museum?! As though soldiers in a war had nothing better to do.

Plus, there is the Muslim immigration problem, a problem that is a bigger threat in the long run than al-Qaida. (I'm talking about Europe and not so much the U.S.) But again, to deal with that problem effectively would enrage the liberals and leftists. At the very least, European countries should demand assimilation of their immigrants with expulsion for those who can't or won't assimilate. But no liberal or leftist would tolerate such a thing, and every politician knows they would put up such a big fuss that no one wants to recommend it.

Europe will thus very likely end up Muslim (based on demographic factors at the very least), and if Europe goes Muslim, Canada being the "soggy" place it is will probably follow suit. What will it be like here in the U.S. with a Saudi Arabia right next door? Sure, that won't happen till fifty or seventy years from now, but that is the way things are heading right now.

Do you have a plan to prevent this, Phylo?

Some specifics, please?
For all of those who feel Islamic terrorists should be treated on a police v. criminal model rather than a war model, you are aware, of course, that no police force in the world is capable of controling crime 100%. A police force exists primarily to respond to crime after the fact, to try and find the guilty parties and bring them in for punishment. A military force exists to destroy the enemy's capacity to attack. So how many terrorist attacks against U.S. targets should we be willing to endure? Would one 9/11 attack every six months be acceptable losses for you? That's only 3,000 people out of 3,000,000, one-fifth of one percent of the population involved in a . . . what shall we say . . . "criminal incident," per year. That's lower than the "crime rate" of most major cities, I'd venture to guess.

Terrorism
Well, o.k., so the "war" isn't REALLY a war, it's a police action.

That means I should only take the normal precautions I usually take against criminals (i.e., lock the doors and windows, carry a concealed handgun when walking through "bad" neighborhoods, be vigilant, etc).

And the US government shouldn't monitor any phone conversations between terrorists and people in the USA or look for terrorists' sources of funding.

And the US government should not be concerned if an FBI agent notices middle eastern men taking flying lessons . . .

O.K., got it. The Chapman doctrine will keep me completely safe from "thugs".

At least, until the next 911 when Chapman, Phylo, Lilly et al start screaming, "Why didn't the government connect the dots?!"


Craig C
How I wish that I could post information as concise. I have been beat up on posts because much of my information comes from conservative sites and all I have is there word that there information is verified. Sometimes I read books on Islamic history, gather information from articles, etc. I depend on there sources being correct.

These people countering my opinion have no more than the same, someones opinion.

They rap off so called facts they with no substance.

It really boils down to one mans opinion against another.

For instances the WMD's. I've read credible articles that say that there's evidence they existed, possably have been moved, others start quoting all these pentagon sources that say that they never existed.

So, it boils down to which side you want to come down on.

Even after so one reads this post, someone will assure me that they never existed.

I've had people tell me that we have no business in the Middle East period. Sort of hunker down and wait til you see the mushroom cloud.

Well, I liked your post. I think you made your case.

Gabby
I think that it's a false assumption to assume that if we were not in the Middle East that al Queda would go away.

These people are acting like they have received some sort of revelation from God to go after anyone who doesn't see things there way.

I watched the entire history of Islam on the history channel.

The speard of the Ottoman empire.

It didn't matter whether a nation crossed them or not. They moved like any conqueror.

These people want to bring nations under there religeous system.

Wow, lot of confusion out here...
Kudos to Chapman for providing some context. Yes, there is a threat, and we should do whatever we can to minimize it and eliminate it if possible.

But we are not. In fact, it seems we are doing our level best to help OBL and Al Qaeda grow. Three weeks passed after 9/11 before we attacked al Qaeda's strongholds in Afghanistan. This allowed OBL and his crew to disburse throughout Pakistan and other neighboring countries. Our troops fought valiantly, but effectively had few high value targets to hit when they got there.

Of course, this delay also allowed OBL to move to Pakistan, where the local tribes view him as a modern day Robin Hood. Even in one of the poorest nations on earth, a $25 million bounty is not enough to help us find him...AFTER 6 1/2 YEARS.

So, realizing that cutting the head off, and killing the body of, al Qaeda was going to take more time, men, and money than expected, we do what?

We ATTACK IRAQ. Of course. Brilliant! Sorta like attacking Korea after Japan hits Pearl Harbor.

So a little over 6 years after 9/11, here's the game plan so far:

1.Invade a country that had no WMDs, nor ability to attack us, and had nothing to do with 9/11.
2. Lose military focus on the actual perpetrators of 9/11 holed up in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
2. Cost the lives of almost 4,000 brave American servicemen and women.
3. Spend close to $500 billion to help destroy and rebuild two nations.
4. Prop up two well meaning, but ineffective governments.
5. Lose the support of our allies (except, of course, that shining example of republican democracy and civil rights, Pakistan).
6. Cede the moral high ground by initiating a war that meets almost none of the Just War requirements.
7. Provide recruitment material for bin Laden and al Qaeda. Yes, occupation is a real incentive for terrorists, far more so than allowing women to show their faces in public or making R-rated movies.
8. Witness the death of several hundred thousand Iraqi's civilians...some terrorists...most not.
9. Eliminate Iran's natural enemy Iraq.
10. And after all this, we learn al Qaeda's just as powerful as they were in Sept 2001. Did I mention OBL is still at large?

The focus should have never been shifted from al Qaeda, once it was determined they were responsible for 9/11. I pray that the neo-con/PNAC/Iraq War cheerleaders realize this before they drive our country over the cliff. And, also that you vote for the one man (Ron Paul) who was wise enough to recognize this folly when it was originally foisted on us...

Peace be with you all.

Gabby
I really don't want to get into scripture because people on these sites like to ridicule Christians anyway, and I'm not going to throw pearls before swine.

But, I assume from your posts that you are a Christian.

If you are then consider that though your assessment of the condition of the US may be correct, what you are seeing is the stage being set for the tribulation. I don't know any better than you when that trumpet is going to sound,but I see Ezekiel 38,and 39 coming to pass.

Our first English Bible was translated by John Wycliffe in 1384. Our KJV came mainly from William Tyndale 1536. KJV1611 is where most of our other versions came from, with some exceptions.

I said all of that to say that when Daniel prophesied the end times, when Ezekiel prophesied the end times, when John prophesied in Revelation, there was no Islamic threat, there was no Israel gethered in the homeland, there was no America.

These people that scoff at the Bible and say we wrote history into it know not what say.

The Arab nations came from Ishmael. The jewish nation came from Abraham.

Abraham was promised a son, whos blood line would produce the Christ.

Abraham rush things because he was old and produced a child Ishamael.
Ishamael was not the promised seed, it was Isaac.
This is all explained in Genesis 17-26.

Two nations were born out of Abraham, the Arab nations and the Jewish nation in about 1966BC.

The Arab nations have despised the Jew for 1000's of years.

When you look at Ezekiel 38,39 what you see is several countries who will come against Israel to destroy them.

Who do you think they are?

They are Gog, which is Russia, Persia which is Iran, Cush which is Sudan, Put which is Libya, and parts of Egypt, and Ethiopia.

All of these other than Russia are Muslem nations.

Iran has vowed to destroy Israel and they will try.
I don't have time to go into the rest.

But, at no other time in the history of the world has the events that are mentioned in the Bible been brought together as they are now.

As I said, I'm not making predictions, but Iran is going to have the means to take Israel out soon, and they will try.
This hatred goes way, way, back.

People kept thinking that it's all about a few miles of land.

People don't understand that when the nation of Isreal rejected Christ that they were scathered.

They have been brought back into the land of Israel by the hand of God.

God's getting ready to bring this thing to a close.

Never in the history of the world have so many nations had so much power to destroy as they have today.



Gabby
Sorry, I just caught something.
The Jewish nation came from Isaac.

Both Arabs and Jews came from Abraham.

Gabby
I caught another point that I want to be clear on.

In the 4th paragraph I state Islamic threat.

I am not suggesting that Islam did not exist before that time.

Islam’s founder lived from 570AD – 632AD.

The first real threat from Islam came with the Ottoman Empire 1350 – 1913

I was speaking of our present day threat with the Middle East.

If I missed anything else, well I did this late, you'll have to cut me so slack.

cfountain
Regarding your beef that in response to AlQ terror "we do what? we attack Iraq", you might want to think of it this way: the initial battles of WWII (or WWI for that matter) were not fought in Japan or Germany.
No one "attacked" Gettysburg. It was a battlefield. Iraq is a battlefield.

SunThe1
You're right, but no one wants to see it that way.

When you have a culture that thinks the way Iran or al Queda, you have one of two choices when they threaten your survival. You attack and destroy, or you try to change there way of thinking by a regine change.

This attitude of live and let live works fine until someone decides that they don't want to let you live.

We had to pick our battlefields. In this case we took on Afghanistan and Iraq.

Regardless of what some have been saying, Iraq was a potential threat to the security of the USA.
Just because they were not launching missles in our direction did not mean that they were not a threat. Israel didn't do anything to them, but it didn't stop them from lobbing a few missles there way, paying bombers to kill Israeli's.

Iran needs a regine change. Soon they will have nuclear capabilities. Some have said that it doesn't matter because they are not foolish enough to use them, oh yeah! They have sworn to take out Israel. You think that they fear retaliation. If they die doing this that get a one way ticket to heaven.

It is the fanatics that are doing this. Iran's citizens fear these nuts too. All these countries citizens fear these nuts.

The comment about helping al Queda grow, well propaganda is a great tool to use when you are waging a war. Certainly al Queda is going to use it to gather support. Muslins can hate each other, and kill each other, but if there is one thing that unites them it is there religion.

Anyway, you made a good point.

The Leftis see....
the light at the end of the tunnel.
And i see the them ruling the country till the end of civilization.

Of course the light is civilization burning.
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