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Monday, June 15, 2009
Star Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Obama fast tracking the nanny state
by Star Parker
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President Obama wants health care reform this year.

He said at a town hall meeting the other day that he won't tolerate "endless delay" and that we probably won't reform health care if we don't do it this year.

Now why is that Mr. President? Will Congress be on vacation for the remaining three years of your term?

Consider that it's not unusual to take a full session of congress -- two years -- to pass legislation a fraction of the size and consequence of health care reform. Yet our president is demanding that a bill to overhaul a $2.5 trillion sector of our economy -- one sixth of it -- be considered and passed in a few short weeks.

It ought to be clear that this is not about taking an honest and sincere look at how to make this a better country and how to do a better job at delivering health care to Americans. It's impossible to look at something this massive and deal with it in such a short time frame.

This is about raw politics. When Mr. Obama says that if we don't get "it" done this year we probably won't get "it" done, he doesn't mean reforming health care. He means reforming it the way he and Ted Kennedy want to do it. Government run, nanny state health care.

To pull it off, they have to move fast.

First, the White House knows that Mr. Obama's honeymoon won't last forever. While his personal approval ratings remain high at 60 percent, his disapproval rating now at 33% is almost twice where is stood last February. And, in latest Gallup polling, the majority now disapprove of how Obama is handling government spending. So the White House wants action now on health care while their man is still popular.

Second, the White House knows that next year is an election year. It will be far more difficult to get Senators and Congressmen to play ball.

Third, they know that the big reason that Hillary Care failed in 1993 was that the American people were given an opportunity to look at it and consider it. They don't want to make the same mistake of giving voters a chance to actually understand what is about to happen to them. They know that the more Americans have an opportunity to take a look at the bureaucrat run, nanny state health care freight train, the more likely they will jump of the track.

Breathlessness is a great political technique. Telling voters that the world will end if we don't get X passed now.

This is how the $800 billion dollar "stimulus" bill got passed earlier this year. We were flashed images of the Great Depression of the 1930's and told our only hope is the stimulus bill.

Now, three months later, it's clear that our current economy bears no resemblance to the 1930's, that signs of recovery are emerging, and thus far only 6 percent of the $800 billion "stimulus" pot of political lard has been spent.

The trillions in new debt have been piled up at such a dizzying pace in the last few months Americans are numb. The federal government take from our economy has jumped from one fifth of it to one fourth.

Now, Mr. Obama and his Democrat colleagues want to layer on a new government health care plan to "compete" with private plans. "Compete" means raising taxes a few trillion dollars to provide subsidized insurance, and in some cases, free insurance, through a government plan in which all Americans will eventually wind up. And putting federal bureaucrats in charge of approving what health care procedures we are permitted.

The health care nanny state freight train is moving. Will we wake up before it's too late?

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About The Author
Star Parker is the founder and president of CURE, the Coalition for Urban Renewal & Education, a 501c3 think tank which explores and promotes market based public policy to fight poverty, as well as author of White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner City Decay.
 
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Obama and cronies
Obama and his ilk are determined to ruin our country. Nanny state be danged. That may be his goal, stated or otherwise, but the ultimate situation will be the destruction of the USA.

Obama and cronies
Obama and his cronies are determined to destroy the USA. Not just remake it. They are out to destroy the USA as it has been. What will emerge if they succeed will be a dictatorship.

The hand is quicker then the eye
Place your bets because President Obama is betting that he can get fast track passage on the Health Care Reform draft bill by October. He figures if he got the stimulus bill passed on a fast track passage by blaming Bush, he can surely get fast track passage on the Health Care Reform draft by saying it's for the children. What he didn't say, is that it's the children and their children who will be paying for it years from now. By now every American ought to be able to put two and two together and see it's nothing but control of our lives is what President Obama is after. President Obama is a control freak, plain and simple. President Obama said he doesn't want to take anything over, which is smart because if he did it would have to be funded by the government. By taking a share of businesses and banks, it doesn't add to the debt. This way the businesses and banks can foot the bill and it isn't shown as being a program of President Obama which adds to the debt. Taking a piece of the pie is better then eating the whole pie because then it would be yours. President Obama doesn't it all, just 60%.

Insurance Profits or Public Healthplans?
How long has the USA needed a health care reform bill? since 18 years ago, when I can remember but it could be earlier.

What is the hold up? Elected leaders play politics and 'big business' in form of 'insurance providers' always wins because they can lobby greedy congress people into voting against it when they find the proposal does not meet their 'profit margin' preference.

Americans need a government option in any plan that is put forward. Not because it will be the most effective or efficient but because 'free markets' means insurance providers who are making a profit - make it IMPOSSIBLE for costs to ever stablize. After all, a free market means demand will control price and so far, the rising cost and difficulty in access have made it difficult if not impossible for the average american to afford healthcare without it being a 'job benefit'. And with the rate of unemployment rising......then most americans will find themselves without insurance.

NO TO INSURANCE AND YES TO GOVT. HEALTHCARE - it's simple and this time the GOP won't have the opportunity or political capital to fight for insurance 'profit margins'.
YES WE CAN!

What's the delay already???
Hurry up, hurry up. Don't read it. Just sign it! Come on no time to waste. Deliberating on every little detail is so right-wing. You don't want to be thought of as right-wing do ya?

If we get everything done now maybe the voters in 2010 and 2012 will forget how we made a mess on things in the first few months we were in power. Besides I'm sure that we can blame everything costing more on Bush. Anyway people love big government and want us to run as much of their lives as we can.

So stop with the questions and the reading and the thinking already and just sign on the dotted line. No no... don't use ink! Sign it in your children's blood please. That's better. Now you just wait and see; Uncle Barry will make it all feel better.


Sheik
Be careful what you wish for. Once the government gets it hand on your health care it will look like the rest of the government programs: U.S. Postal Service, Medicare, Medicade, Veterans Health Care, and Welfare to name a few. Which one of these programs that the government performs:
1) pays for itself
2) is better than private industry
3) Is efficient
4) Makes better decisions than you do for yourself.

If this bill passes within 10 years there will be rationed care to help pay for it all.

Sheik
Your wrong. Millions of American familes find that they can afford having health care that aren't provided by their primary job. They go out and work for it at part time jobs, taking extra time and making the sacrifice to protect their children. Some actually give up watching American Idol and Saturday football in order to do it becuase thay want to do right by their family. Imagine that. What's the world coming to? I'll tell you. More are counting on a government plan so they don't have to miss American Idol. It's too important to them, or to long to wait until they advance to a job that provides it. They just want Nanny Government to give it to them It doesn't matter if others pay for it for them, or it doesn't matter to them what it turns out to be in the long run.

Nanny State is great
Wealthy elites and Corporations have enjoyed the benefits of the Nanny State for decades.....if its good enough for them, why should'nt the taxpayers get the same benefits?

Thanks to Conservatives who've granted sweetheart tax abatements for corporations to freeload, created tax loopholes for corporations to have a mailbox in the Caymans as their corporate headquarters, have given massive tax breaks to unworthy billionaires, and "overlooked" the hundreds of billions parked by elites in "tax exempt" Swiss bank accounts like UBS....why should'nt Amerian citizens enjoy some gravy themselves?

Let's remember its not the wealthy elites or the corporations who offshore profits to evade taxes that make America work. Its the hard working citizens.

A nanny state is always welcome and needed to protect from American citizens from the massive injustices and hardships of life when people become elderly and infirm and need a helping hand or have been dealt a bad hand in life.

Full Single Payer Socialized medicine is now needed to relace the failed Capitalist model of private insurance and to come to the aid of those who are sick or in need of care.

I tried my best...
To warn all the people I knew last year not to vote for Obama because they had no idea what he was all about or the plans he had for America. Now we know: he is anti-American and with Hillary Clinton's help he will turn us into one of the biggest communist nations in the world (totally dependent upon government).

Slowly the brilliant shine is beginning to wear off the Obama image because the people are not buying the liberal spin on his policies anymore (as published in most major news broadcasts). I fear that it will be too late (as Ms Parker points out) to do anything to prevent the Obama mess because the American people are waking up too slowly! Obama is insisting this wrecking ball medical plan go through now without review and it will help destroy our way of life: rest assured.

God help us and everyone please continue to pray for our country and our leaders.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber


Joel-De Oppresso Liber


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Single-Payer Does't Have The Votes
Plus, the public option and healthcare benefit taxes are in trouble, as well...

Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) said this weekend that he opposes a public option plan for consumers in a healthcare reform plan to emerge from the Senate.

“I don’t favor a public option,” Lieberman told Bloomberg News in an interview broadcast this weekend. And I don’t favor a public option because I think there’s plenty of competition in the private insurance market.” …

“We have a unique opportunity, a real opportunity to do this year what we’ve been trying to do for years, which is to reform American healthcare,” Lieberman said. “I think the one thing that will stop that is pressure on the so-called public option.”

Other Democrats in the Senate, mostly from the red states, have also retreated from the public plan. Mary Landrieu (LA) and Ben Nelson (NE) have not quite announced opposition to it, but have sounded skeptical notes. Even if Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins join the Democrats, it would not take more than the three Democrats to uphold a filibuster on the entire bill, and we have yet to hear an explicit stand from other red-state Democrats such as Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor (AR), as well as Max Baucus and Jon Tester (MT).

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/14/lieberman-opposes-pub lic-plan-in-obamacare/


Sen. Dodd (D-CT) is opposed to taxing healthcare benefits.

http://www.fox8.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-health-overh aul-tax,0,194840.story

The plan most bandied about is the Kennedy-Dodd proposal, which resembles the UK system. If you are not familiar with the horrendous British system, please review the NHS's criticism of itself. Further, read Tom Daschle's NIGHTMARE of a health program that he decribed in his book, "Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis." It is as though he wrote it while sitting in the offices of the UK's NICE Board.


How Old Are You, First? 3?

The "Nanny State Is Great" is probably the most absurd declaration that I have seen posted on TH and that is saying a lot.

Most Americans do not want the government overseeing their lives from the cradle to the grave.

Why Don't They Start With Subsidies?

The sugar ($3bn), corn ($5bn) and tobacco ($10bn) all get subsidies from the Federal government. In fact the same Democrats that scream for healthcare "reform" just voted for the Farm Bill, which includes the subsidies in the dollar amounts that I specified.

Subsidies keep the prices artificially low, which insures that more of the product will be consumed or used.

Start by cutting the subsidies. The EU is way ahead of the United States on this issue.

Get health ins. by:
Working for an employer for 36 years. 1.(Pvt. ins.)
Serving in the dreaded "military" and being injured. 2. (V.A. health care.)
Serving in and retiring from the dreaded "military reserves". 3. (Tricare.)
4. Medicare.
Can you say four health insurance plans?
The progressives "gave" none of these out of the kindness of their hearts, or their greed for my vote.

Understand Obama's Agenda and Beliefs

1) Barack Obama wants to accommodate the Citizens who refuse to provide for themselves, by stealing from those Citizens who do provide for themselves and 'Spread the Wealth'.

2) Barack Obama wants to redefine 'Perverted Behavior' as good, so that those bound by perversion can have 'Self Esteem'.

3) Barack Obama wants to declare that 'Good is Evil' and that 'Evil is Good', in order to destroy any moral codes, values and the idea of right and wrong.

4) Barack Obama wants to perpetuate Racism and Bigotry as necessary to achieve 'Equality' and therefore bring about 'Social Justice'.

5) Barack Obama is against 'Equal Rights' and 'Protections', provided by the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights for every Citizen in America, because he 'Feels' that certain races, genders and sexual preferences should have 'Special Rights and Protections' other citizens should not have.

6) Barack Obama believes that a 'Certain Class of Citizens' (babies), should have no 'Rights or Protections' in order that another 'Class of Citizens' can kill them.

7) Barack Obama has great 'Empathy' for criminals, rapists, murderers but NO 'Sympathy' for the victims of those criminals.

8) Barack Obama 'Feels' that America's enemies, who have 'Sworn' to kill and destroy all of America's Citizens should be treated with 'Honor and Respect', even if that means the 'Destruction of America'.

9) Barack Obama wants to view America's veterans as potential terrorist who must be constantly monitored. At no time does Barack Obama treat Veterans with 'Honor and Respect' except to pay lip service during a photo op. (thanks Russ)

10) Barack Obama is 'Ashamed' of America, because its Citizens have created the most powerful and free Country in the history of mankind.

11) Barack Obama believes that 'Socialism', which has caused over 100,000,000 deaths by murder and starvation, is the 'Best Approach' for 'Change' in America.

Ultimate Liberal Fascism!!!!!
This is PEOPLE CONTROL!! The man is an absolute sociopathic control freak. Your life as you know it is over. It will start slowly until you are like the boiled frog.

EVERYTHING will be linked to health care once it is under federal control. If you eat what they don't like, smoke, drink or engage in recreation THEY don't like they will either tax your health care benefits at high levels or try to deny you care.

I used to be an insurance adjuster in the early Clinton years. We had access to all sorts of stats. One of the safest sports in accidents or deaths PER CAPITA is hunting. More people die while FISHING, SKIING or even PLAYING NON-PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL each year than die from hunting accidents.

These accidents are blown out of proportion in the press because if it bleeds it leads. Most involve heart attacks or injuries falling from trees. Accidents involving weapons are the rarest of all.

Now if you want to hunt your going to pay a special added premium for the duration of the season. God forbid if you're taking a teenager to hunt with you!! The premium will cost more than the total costs for the season combined.

Ditto for training young drivers unless in an Obamawagen and bubble wrapped for safety. He wants to bubble wrap the world. EVERYTHING will be viewed from the standpoint of how it impacts health care.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Healthcare
Thousands of words about how wrong this man is for America. No words on how to take our country back from this immature, ignorant, racist man. You people who put him in office, how do you live with yourself? Admit your mistake and ask God for forgivness.

Healthcare Reform
Get lawyers out of healthcare and cap lawsuits, then see how many lawyers find work elsewhere.

Doctors spend more time and money ordering unnecessary tests and follow-up visits just to protect their butts.

Barack Obama's Eclecticism

Barack Obama's beliefs and understandings of everything, seems to be based on 'Eclecticism'.

Barack Obama's knowledge is 'Superficial', he selects what appears to be best in various doctrines, methods, or styles, in everything from 'Economics' to 'Religion'.

It is evident to any thinking person, that Barack Obama has NO core standards, principles, values or belief system.

Barack Obama has even implied, that Jesus Christ - God in the Flesh, who dwelt among us - had a poor, incorrect, or perhaps 'Warped view', about the path to Salvation.

John 14:6 (New International Version)
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

In an interview in 2004 with Cathleen Falsani a Chicago Sun-Times Columnist, Barack Obama stated: "So, I have a deep faith, I'm rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place."

Barack Obama has an untenable theological position, that all people of faith -- Christians, Hindus, Muslims, animists, everyone -- knows and follows the same God.

Barack Obama describes his father, after whom he is named, as "agnostic." His paternal grandfather was a Muslim. His mother, he says, was a Christian whom Obama described as "a lonely witness for secular humanism" In his 1993 memoir, Dreams from My Father.

Many Members of his 'Chosen Mentor', Jeremiah Wright's church were Muslim.

Barack Obama my strive to be 'All Things, to All People', but that doesn't work with God.


Freedom: Now and Forever
One of the things that has driven me nuts (short drive) for years is those idiots who want socialism/communism always try to force it on the rest of us who don’t want it. If these people are so enamored with socialism or communism why don’t they just go to those countries that are already socialist? Go ahead and live in Cuba, North Korea or Vietnam if you love the communist/socialist style of government. Just leave me alone!

What gives you the right to steal from me?

What gives you the right to force controls on to me that I do not want?

What gives you the right to take my freedom away from me?

I can almost guarantee that some moron liberal will respond to this by calling me a cry baby. In anticipation of this let me say, try pushing your totalitarian agenda on me face to face and we will see what happens.

Obamunism Coming to America

Many estimate that over 150,000,000 have been killed by the Marxist doctrine of 'Coercion'.

There are many 'flavors' of Marxism - socialism, nazism, fascism, maoism, ObamUnism etc, all require a collectivist society and participation by all.

All have more similarities than differences - all have been tried (except ObamUnism) and all failed for the same basic reason.

Extreme Coercion on those who do not wish to participate.

The attempts to force individuals who do not wish to participate in collectives, have resulted in a number of deaths which 'Boggles' the mind.

Collectivism is not compatible with the free will of the individual or individual rights, such as private property, self determination or the right to pursue individual happiness.

What will ObamUnism bring to those who do NOT wish to participate - only God knows.

obama's health care
1. 99% of the Dems. will not read the plan.
2. Most Dems. will follow dear leader barry over the cliff and kill American in the process
3. We heard the crying about the loss of union jobs from the left what about the potential loss of 0ver 2 million jobs in the health insurance community ? Does the left care ? No.
4. Those in favor of the government plan should remember your POLITICAL leaders will not participate. Did Teddy follow his OWN medical plan ? No !!! Yet he wants you to follow a plan he won't practice for himself.
5. Barry and the left are willing to destroy a viable industry for the benefit of 47 million where up to 20 million of these are ILLEGALS.
6. Barry and the left are full time radical socialists.
7. They want to pass this health care plan immediately and have no clue as to what will happen. They have done this in the recent past and all we have is a massive debt with no positive results.

The Left
What the Left cares about is how they look at any given moment and the future be damned.

Will Pelosi...
force the house to vote on this bill in 24 hrs? What happened to the UHC earmark in the first stimulus? Obama knows that the love fest will soon end and everyone will see that the emperors new cloths for what they really are.

Star Power equals...see the light power.
Keep it up girl...you are so right in this analysis! You are a marvelous writer and thinker!! We need to look at this very carefully as you point out so well!!

maverick, exactly right
"What he didn't say, is that it's the children and their children who will be paying for it years from now."


I was still using training wheels when Nixon created Amtrak, which was supposed to be profitable by 1976. Fat chance. $30bn later, there is still no exit strategy and I am paying for Amtrak.

Now Amtrak is like Social Security -- don't touch it. In fact, Biden added billions to the stimulus bill for this loser.

Star is correct
Star is correct. Obama understands the extent of the forces of special interests that are behind our failing healthcare system. And he also know that Republican alternatives are in fact just smoke and mirrors aimed at putting a monkey wrench in the works. If that were not the case, Bush and the Republicans would have put through their own more market based approach when they were in power. But instead they did NOTHING.

Using labels like Nanny State only deflect from a serious discussion about a serious problem that has been ignored for too long. If as the expression goes the devil is in the details, you would think that Star and her ilk would wade in, but no. Instead we just get the same old same old sorry baloney. And to top it off Star as usual mischaracterizes or wildy speculated in the negative assuming that a public option would mean everyone would be in it. Why would they unless it was a great option, and then if it were how can you say that it would be a lousey option in which government official make your medical choices, if that were the case people would get out.

Either the plan would be good and people would want in or the plan would be bad and people would want out. It can't be both.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber
I am a Disabled Vet, and except for the Audiology Clinic which is efficiently run, I avoid the Dallas VA like the plague. It is a nightmare trying to get treatment, because of the bureaucracy, constant turnover in medical personnel, lost records, red tape, and wait s of weeks for appointments, long waits for scheduled appointments, I once did not get seen until 2 p.m. when I had a 9 a.m. appointment, longer waits for walk in care, lost prescriptions etc.

Wrat Wrangler
Made up non-sense. But even if it did come to pass you could simply opt out of the public option. So this is just another big lie.

JMO51
Wrat Wrangler
Made up non-sense. But even if it did come to pass you could simply opt out of the public option. So this is just another big lie.

Don't bet the farm on that.

JMO51 - Opt In Or Opt Out?

A public program will crowd out the private sector. Employers will dump their employees into the public program. You will end up with nearly a complete single-payer system.

The ones that will not opt-in are wealthy individuals and doctors that go Galt, like they do in the UK.

Unfortunately, the public program will lower the medical care for everyone.

Economics, my dear, economics.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber
I don't agree with you. I wish you were right because we would be a better country if you were, but no. Back when the Republicans and their special interest friends and financers in the insurance industry were using scare tactics to do in Hillary care. The Republicans claimed to acknowledge the problem but to have cheaper more market based solutions. But when it was all over and Hillary Care was defeated with it went the alternative plans. During the years of increasing Republican Power they did nothing on this issue. (Except the drug benefit for seniors put throught by Bush that I am gonna guess you don't like.)

We have columnists after columnist here on townhall writing about health care and I have yet to hear in any of them a conservative apporcah to solving the problem. It all about Boggie monster Obama and his socialist nanny state gonna come after you healthcare plan.

So I would like to challenge anyone here to suggest a conservative alternative. And just to get the ball rolling I will start by citing what Romney did in Mass.




Joel:
You have been lucky. What scares me about government run health care is that my general care physician has told me that if it comes to pass he is leaving the active practice of medicine for a teaching position he has been repeatedly offered. I have had this man as my doctor for 15 years, and trust him implicitly. I don't want to have to back to the VA, or start over with a new MD.

sad
The government already has in its power to reduce the cost of health care significantly - reduce regulations and cap punitive damages from lawsuits. Perhaps 40% of you healthcare dollar is attributable to these 2 things.

SFA1973
And what is you basis for that assumption, the secret scare monster he really has another agenda.

In case you forgot this is a Democracy, and if people don't like the plan they will press the politicians to change it. The biggest danger for conservatives is not that the plan will fail, but that it will be a big success.


SFA1973
You know the doctors said the same thing about medicare and you know it turned out very well for seniors. As to your personal problem, I understand. But compare that with people losing their homes when they get really sick even when they have insurance and I say you will be ok and will find another private doctor and anyway my guess is that your MD is full of it when he says he will leave his practice.

JMO51
Tell me program that the government has ever gotten rid, because the people told the Congress to cancel it.

david golf
More Right Wing Propoganda. Yes, lawsuits add to costs but not by anything appoximating 40% and Obama has said he is open to limiting lawsuits. As to the Regulation stuff, baloney. Of course, if we take away the regulation that says Doctors need a license I but costs will lower significantly.

JMO51:
Medicare is so efficiently run, that it is going broke.

Check THIS out!
A guy who LOVES Obama, and a MUST see! You will get it, when you get on the site. http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com! HYSTERICAL stuff!

St. Denis In Obama's Red America
The only way a public system would edge out provide ones is if they were superior in terms of price/quality of care. And it is likely that the employer based system is likely to collapse anyway and conservatives have been calling for that so that individuls can use market forces to control costs.

More big lie speculation.

JMO51

I suggest that you read the Kennedy-Dodd health care bill, which is the one most promoted. It closely models the proposed healthcare system after either the UK or Canadian systems, both of which are disasters.

You would do yourself a favot by studing the NHS' criticism of its own system and the NICE Board in the UK.

The UK routinely rations, denies or creates extended waiting periods relative to healthcare.

If you need a hip replacement, you will have to wait at least 15 weeks.

Certain types of breast or stomach cancers? Medication denied. The government only permits "feel good until you die" drugs. You cannot even buy the drugs privately.

If one of your parens has a macular degeneration in the UK, he/she will have to lose sight in one eye before medication is allowed to save the remaining vision.

There is a long list of horror stories and Canada is not much better.

Further, countries with socialized medicine have extremely anemic growth in GDP. In the EU, for example, the GDP grows a pitiful 1.9% per year.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber
Thats your view and you are certainly entitled to it. Now lets leave it to the voters as this is a democracy. No scarey monster stuff, just the plain and simple truth about you view and lets see what happens.

How's this for a bumper sticker?
The government took care of Terry Shiavo
Now they want to take care of you.

JMO51:
You ever been in VA Hospital?

Barack Obama's Lying Friends


Who Didn't Know Barack Obama Wanted to Change the Constitution?

Any thinking person knows Barack Obama has NO Standards, NO Ethics, NO Principles, NO Values and NO Repect for what has made America the Greatest Nation in the History of Mankind.

Everything is 'Relative' to Barack Obama, dependent upon who he is talking to or what situation he encounters.

Even Barack Obama's most ardent Supporters, Followers and Worshipers, cannot predict what he will do next, on a day to day basis - his only 'Truth' - is the 'Obama Current Truth'.

Barack Obama's 'Clarion Call' to his Supporters, Followers and Worshipers about the Obama 'Current Truth', seems to be based on a Kris Kristofferson song - paraphrased:

'Yesterdays 'Truth' is dead and gone
and tomorrow's 'Truth' is out of sight
And it's sad to 'Lie' alone.
Help me 'Lie' to win the fight.

I don't care what's right or wrong,
I won't try to understand.
Let the devil take tomorrow,
in this Fight,
I need some 'Lying' friends.'

Could It Be Any Clearer?
I am waiting for the typical American to weary of the " Chicken Littling" our our society and start rejecting a motivation by crisis mentality. It has been said that it is much harder to sustain negativity than its counterpart. I am praying that this axiom proves true soon before our national train hits an open switch.

more redmeat,
ms.parker cont to feed the hungry lions more redmeat ,only because it work so well the last two elections.....dont come up with real solutions just keep the bumper sticker coming and the talking point and sarah..by the way where is joe the plumber????did he quit the gop????

Costs Will Go Down???
Government almost ALWAYS makes erroneous projections. We can talk about USPS or Amtrak, for that matter. Personally, I think the Amtrak example hits the ball out of the park when it comes to demonstrating the abject failure that is the government when it comes to spending money and making projections.

Nearly 40 years ago, Nixon nationalized several rail lines in order to save the railroads because the number of riders had decreased dramatically. He claimed that Amtrak would run at a deficit for 3 years and then become profitable. The sad fact is that we have sunk $30bn into an enterprise that will always be a drag on the wallets of taxpayers.

If anyone believes Obama's statements that costs will decrease and the quality of care will increase, please locate the 7 lost states and determine if all of the "created" jobs have gone there and taken those "shovel ready" jobs with them. All of the reworked sub-prime mortgage holders are probably there, as well. Only about 19,000 mortgage holders have benefitted from Obama's mortgage bailout even though 5mn projected.

I could cite example after example to demonstrate that the Feds almost always get it wrong, but why? We aleady KNOW that most of the programs and policies being proposed not will not live up to projections.

Care will be rationed. Costs will not decrease in the percentages that Obama claimed. In fact, I doubt that there will be savings at all. And, years from now, taxpayers will still be paying, disproportionately, for the "We pay as they go" ObamaCare.

How Is What I Proposed Propaganda?

I linked the information relative the positions of various Democrats.

Further, I lived in the UK and in France. I have seen socialized medical care up close. Even the middle class will dig deep into their pockets to pay for private doctors and clinics.

Further, the top marginal tax rate in France is 50% plus a 19.6% VAT tax (for everyone) on all consumption of goods and services.

Why are taxes so high in the EU? The money attempts to pay the atrocious entitlement programs.

Go live over in the UK and France, then come back and extol about the horrific British system and the "Tale of Two Classes" in France.

I do not know where you got the idea that I am responsible for providing your healthcare. Where does it say so in the Constitution, eh?

Finally, I am not a Republican, you moron.

Change of status
JMO51 When I went to be last night the United States was a Republic. Now it is a Democracy?? How did that happen?

LET'S WAIT
"Telling voters that the world will end if we don't get X passed now."
Since Obamba's Muslim brothers say that the 12th Imam (Omamba?) will destroy the world on August 22, 2009, passing X will not stop it, so why rush into X. Let's wait at least until september before doing anything. In the meantime, THE LEGISLATORS CAN READ THE BILL, WHICH THEY DID NOT DO BEFORE THEY PASSED THE PORKULUS BILL.

Perhaps the railroads would have provided better and cheaper service if they hadn't been forced to hand half of their operating capitol to government as taxes.


lloyd the loser
the fool shows upo to babble more nonsense.

So tell us bright BOY since your messiah is working to socialize america and tax every loose dollar he can find, what type of future lies in store for the republic.

More than likely you are just another ghetto creature unable to earn your way through life so why would you car how the gov't spends money or who pays the taxes.

But in your pathetic world the messiah is promising more handouts to losers like you.

But socialism only works as long as there is a tax base to plunder. Flap ears and the clueless dims have already unleased new fees to cover up[ there real purpose which is new taxes and revenue for the gov't.

But you need ,not worry another of you heroes, bro rangel is proposing a new tax of some $800 billion. But since you don't pay taxes that doesn't concern you.

But what will you do when you and the rest of the losers find out bro o will need to ration more of the things you think will be forever free and being too dumb and too lazy you will be unable to acquire on your own

A Mixed Bag
http://andthepointis.wordpress.com/2009/06/15/a-mixed-bag/

Very good readings--
Star is on the money again and the thoughtful conservative posts here were informative also.
One area that has not been discussed is the fact that illegal aliens and their anchor rats seem to always be in the ER for one thing or another. Just think if the borders stay open and if dingle barry gets his way and amnesty is given. Where are enough doctors going to be found to deal with all these illegals and us legals??? And guess who is going to pay!!!

JMO51
If you think universal health care is the answer to higher costs, consider the case of an Oregon woman recently diagnosed with lung cancer.

Upon applying to OregonCare (or whatever it is) she was DENIED the medicines necessary to treat her cancer because said treatment was...TOO EXPENSIVE! However, she IS eligible for their assisted suicide program. She was not given the dignity of making her own decision to continue treatment or not. Nope, some faceless bureacrats made the choice for her. THIS is compassion? THIS is "access"? THIS is "choice"?

Don't even go there wrt insuarnce companies declining payment for certain things. If the insurance says "no" you at least have the option of paying yourself. Under ObamaoCare, not so much.

Anyway, the EEEEVIL Big Pharma Corporation that makes the medicine she needs heard of her plight, and is now providing the medicines she needs, FREE OF CHARGE. They didn't organize the community or plunder anyone's pockets. They willingly and freely sacrificed their own profit so as to spare this woman's life. In other words, they are extending charity in the true meaning of the word.

What would YOU have done?

purelypolitical.newsvine.com/_news/2008/08/ for the story.

Naive, or nefarious?
The UK and Canadian systems are not necessarily disasters. For all we know, they may keep more people healthier per dollar than any other systems.

But those plans represent the idea that a central government can make market decisions for every one of the citizens in areas that amount to significant fractions of the GDP. That thinking has been disproven every single time it has been tried in the past 100 years, and the best counter-examples are those countries giving their citizens the most economic freedom and best rule of law.

Are the proponents of stuff like national health care just naive, or are they nefarious? Altruistic or conniving? Proletariat or bourgeoisie?

Skeik
All that sounds just dandy, Except the goverment has never run a single operation efficiently or at a profit.

Whats needed here is simple.

Raise deductables, This forces consumers to take charge of their lifestyles and make healthier choices. Which will lower costs.

Remove regulations that eliminate competition.
If providers have to compete, And consumers have real choices, Prices will drop.

Anyone watch the Beck show a couple months ago ?
He had an MD on who wanted to create his own clinic that would be self insured.
Each member would pay $79 per month. Our governemnt said no way. UNLESS you raise your rates $33 per month to be "fair" to insurance companies.

I personally think Obama wants to rush this through because MOST Americans who have health care are not unhappy with the care they presently receive.

But Obama is doing not a single thing to correct the real problem here. JOBS.
Other than government jobs that is.

The complete and total destruction of Special interest groups and term limits on elected officials is the only remaining move we voters have of ever regaining control of our lives.

The private-sector solution is SO simple
There are obviously many people who reflexively and mindlessly hate Big Insurance, mainly because they make an Evil Profit. The solution is so very simple:

Those who hate Big Insurance and and the Evil Profit should band together and start their own healthcare insurance company. They can carefully operate it without a profit and they can extend all benefits to anyone who wants them. They can elect a CEO, who can serve without salary or with a salary that meets his or her barest needs.

People will flock to enroll in their programs because THEY will care, unlike the profit-making companies. And since their premiums will obviously be lower than any of the profit-making insurance companies, they will put those companies out of business in short order.

Utopia will be achieved without the involvement of giant Government bureaucracies.

Hey, YEAH, they can name their company Utopian Healthcare!

Do it, people; you know you want to.


Dems have been The Party of No
One solution Republicans suggested many years ago was to let individuals fully deduct the cost of their medical insurance, just as businesses are allowed to do (at least until The O & the Dems start taxing that, too). It would be a step toward affordable individual ownership of healthcare insurance.

The Democrats refused. Why? Too expensive.

(Not said: "It would give individuals TOO MUCH POWER. Power that WE, the politicians, should wield.")

HEALTH CARE
Obama wants all the say so.Full control.

Does it matter what we think?
The public was outraged about the stimulus bill and told their Congressmen and Senators. Something like 80% of the feedback to Congress was negative. So what? They did it anyway and now we see what a farce it was (and the public knew that all along). So, it does not seem like Congress will respond in any case no matter how much we disagree. It is time to actually elect people who are conservative and will vote that way in the face of the nonsense they hear inside the WDC bubble.

SF1973
get hold of you senator if Dallas VA is so bad.
those congressman love to go in there and investigate the VA.

Teddy Waitress Sandwich Kennedy
How many remember in 1972, Ted brought in
HMOs as the greatest savior of the nation's
healthcare.He brought them in so he could blame
them for all that has gone wrong with health-
care in the intervening years.
Is it just a coincidence that 1972 was the last year doctors made house calls? I remember when you could pay a doctor with a chicken and
a broken wrist(exam,x-ray,setting,and cast)cost
$60.00.
I didn't sign on for this crap.
Boldfinger
Casper,Wyoming


STAN:
The Dallas Va has been run the Congressional wringer for its lousy care, efficiency, malfeasance, and apathy, with no discernible effect.

HEALTH CARE
The health Care package they want to pass they say is for the 47 MILLION who are UN-INSURED now
Here's a FACT ... approx. 30 MILLION are ILLEGAL'S and that number will DOUBLE in the next few years. Just look at MEXIFORNIA they are supporting 8 MILLION illegal's and along with a lot of other foolish and some very STUPID laws they are 24 BILLION in the RED and asking American's across the country to BAIL-THEM-OUT. THE912PROJECT and TEA PARTY MEMBERS stood up and VOTED DOWN all of their proposed TAX INCREASES to pay for individuals who INVADED their state and lowering their standard of living. The ONLY way this Health-Care-Crime SHOULD BE EVEN CONCIDERED is if the ELITE in Washington, GIVE-UP their TRIPLE AAA Health Care Package and are on the same plan they are trying to put all of us on.

I can really see that happening, can't you ?

What makes them more important than you or me ?

THEY DO ... IN THEIR VIEW WE ARE ONLY IMPORTANT AS LONG AS WE VOTE FOR THEM AND PAY TAXES ! ! !

VOTE IN 2010 & 2012 AND TAKE BACK AMERICA, FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR CHILDREN, IF NOTHING ELSE.

Us History repeats
The Populist Party in 1890 Mary Ellen Lease:

Wall Street owns the country. It is no longer a government of the people, by the people and for the people, but a government of Wall Street, by Wall Street, and for Wall Street…Our laws are the output of a system which clothes rascals in robes and honesty in rags…the politicians said we suffered from overproduction. Overproduction, when 10,000 little children stave to death every year in the US. And over 100,000 shop girls in New York are forced to sell their virtue for bread.
There are thirty men in the United States whose aggregate wealth is over one and a half billion dollars. There are a half million looking for work…We want money, land, and transportation. We want the abolition of the national banks; we want power to make loans direct from the government. We want the accursed foreclosure system wiped out.. We will stand by our homes and stay by our firesides by force if necessary, and we will not pay our debts to the loan-shark companies until the government pays it debt to us.
The people are at bay; let the bloodhounds of money that have dogged us thus far beware.

lloyd the loser
another typical retard from the left who thinks that to oppose your messiah is to advocate for war

But fools like you still fail to answer the questioned raised concerning your love god's out of control spending, printing and borrowing money.

So tell us bright boy, are you happy that your children and grandchildren will be paying more just so losers like you can have more today.

That is if you acknowledge you have children. You sound more like another absentee daddy who thinks society should raise you offspring since you obviously lack the intelligence to man up to your own responsibilities.

But it seems you are in favor of the gov't wasting money and btw, justify the $45 trillion spent on entitlement programs started with the johnson's great society socialism

But you are more than likely another who believes that losers like you need affirmative action in order to get a job you can't qualify for.

But then how typical for the losers from the left. In your world gov't is the answer as long as real earners are paying for it.

So tell us bright boy what are you and the fellow losers going to do when the handouts stop.

Wes, your
post #75 is dead-on accurate.

Remember Arnold the knight on a stallion that charged into Sacramento to slay the leaches that were sucking the citizenry dry.

Now look at him. The favorite pet of the teachers union. The Governator has been reduced to a submissive puddle of whimpering goo.

Witness this America. Learn from this other 49. If the citizens of a foreign country to demand free stuff... and the democrats give it to them, you are all doomed.

Like Poland of WW2, the states that have allowed the invasion of millions from elsewhere are experiencing a mass exodus of their own people. And like Warsaw in 1940, signs and products were printed in a foreign language as verification of the conquering.

Sorry Poland
to compare you to California. You tried very hard to prevent the invasion of foreigners.

"Nanny State"
Ms. Parker, your use of the term "nanny state" connotes something benign. That is misleading. There is absolutely nothing benign about the raw thirst of Barack Obama for absolute power. That man is a danger to this country.

http://www.periodictablet.com

"Nanny State"
Ms. Parker, your use of the term "nanny state" connotes something benign. That is misleading. There is absolutely nothing benign about the raw thirst of Barack Obama for absolute power.
http://www.periodictablet.com

theodore
"There is absolutely nothing benign about."

There is absolutely nothing benign about the Republican party's nanny-state either.

Do you realize that the Republicans actually added another whole layer of entitlement spending in 2003? Yes, they added Medicare Prescription, that costs $50 billion a year. That entire cost has been dumped onto the national credit card.

Part of that Republican spending program forbids the government from negotiating drug prices to get the best deal for the taxpayer.
The Republican mantra is "what ever the taxpayer will bear", instead of the more free-market lyric of "whatever the free-market will bear."

Another part of the deal was to make it a felony for an American to go to Canada and purchase their drugs at a cheaper cost.

Talk about a Nanny-state. It's a Republican Nanny-state where the protected are Big-Pharma companies.

A Conservative Plan For Health Care
1. No health care on the public dime for illegals ... ever. Deport and build the fence.

2. Tort reform. Eliminate so called pain and suffering awards, cap damages to direct economic loss, elimiate contingency fee arrangements for lawyers in civil cases and make class actions illegal.

Bang. Problem fixed. Next.

the nanny state is a real misnomer
socialism decides that the earners will be forced to take care of the losers the gov't enables.

There is no reason why able bodied persons live like parasites off the earners. The basic idea that earners are somehow responsible for the losers too stupid or too lazy to take care of themselves destroys society.

Yet the lefties seem to think that somehow those who succeed have broken the rules while the losers never had a fair chance.

But the lefties never understand personal responsibility and taken charge of your own life.

And meanwhile flap ears gives billions to acorn whose only goal is more handouts for the parasites and their willingness to register voters just to make sure the dims have a growing population of those willing to reside on the dim plantation of entitlements

Obama
has one thing on his mind....to destroy America and the American culture.

Republican-Style Nanny State
Republicans have created a Nanny State culture with massive tax giveaways to unworthy billionaires under Bush. As billionaire investment guru Warren Buffett remarked-he pays less in taxes then his secretary who nets about 37K a year.

They have forgiven massive Wall Steet debt for thieves cooking the books and gambling away investor assets even as they have reaced into taxpayers back pockets and pickpocketed billions to give away and prop up these failed enterprises.

They have carved out loopholes in tax law to allow corporations to create their corporate office in the Caymans and pay zero in taxes while citizens pick up the burden for these slackers.

They have not cracked down on billionaire thieves like Madoff who parked billions of stolen assets in secret Swiss overseas bank accounts like UBS so that it can only be accessed by his family and investors got cheated.

They have allowed corrupt and incompetent CEOs to ruin corporations like GM and then walk away with millions in golden parachutes and bonuses.

Total corporate fawning and welfare that has ruined the economy and will inevitable drive up taxes for the rest of us who are not elites.

Democrats are at fault too, but in different ways and to a lesser extent. That is Capitalism folks. Its permanently riddled with fraud and corruption. The big fish run the show while the honest American worker and family is punished for being middle class of poor.

Socialism as Christ practiced is the fix to mop up the corruption and restore moral integrity and punish the modern day pharisees for their wickedness and sin against our nation.

original meathead from az pt.2
you sound like such a hateful person...i told you i work for a living,pay taxes,have my own house,so the govt gives me nothing.....the difference with me is i know the govt will always have handouts, but the question is who and what should get it...i would like to see my tax dollars spend in this country instead of in iraq.....meathead your such a robots..were you outrage when billions in cash just disappear in iraq?...i dont think so,but since we have a black president your concern now?.....do me a favor go have a tea party with rush and shawn, if you know what i mean......i know what ppl like you really represent its call hate and lies....talking about spending and everything else is only cover for your hateful feeling..hater

first #8: read this
We the people pay all taxes, and we are the only ultimate source of all tax revenue. Regardless where government initially collects it, all tax money ultimately comes from us, the people.
Since we the people are the one and only source of all tax revenue:
There should be only one tax to collect all tax revenue.
It should be a single, simple, fair, direct, graduated, individual, full-income tax levied on living persons for each level of government: One Tax and Done.
You cannot convince a person or corporation to start a new business or expand an existing business, increase jobs, and hire new employees, when you tax away the capitol he is using to operate his PRESENT business
The best thing that government can do to help the country, the people, and even government, is to repeal all of the many hundreds, or thousands of existing taxes, fees, and charges. These taxes are the federal deficit. These taxes are the high price of everything. These tax eliminations are spending cuts. Every tax that is eliminated is a tax that we the people no longer have to pay. These taxes are the difference between the price we pay for health care and everything else, and the price we would pay if these taxes were repealed. Eliminating these taxes will remove them from the price paid for everything by everyone.
One Tax and Done will provide many benefits to all, even government:
One Tax and Done will reduce the price paid for everything by one-third.

loser lloyd
The GAO estimates that up to 10% of the non-stimulus money, and the other bailout monies was be stolen, misappropriated, or just plain lost. Thats 10% of $1.4 trillion.

lloyd says...
"i am a working taxpayer who is willing to pay my taxes to work for america and the american ppl.."

lloyd, there are plenty of other countries where you can go be a good little socialist. Why try to change this one when there are so many options? Heck, you don't even have to learn a 2nd language if you don't want to!

Meanwhile, the founding fathers of THIS country built a framework where WE could choose what to do with our resources. Once you get your money you can hand it out to all the poor people you want. It's your choice. The brilliant men who set this thing up never intended our government to take money from us at gunpoint and redistribute it as they see fit.

But listen, for the most part this is still the land of choice, at least for the next year or so. So feel FREE to get out.

Research the Fair Tax
Do you want to keep your entire paycheck?
Do you want to get rid of the IRS?
Do you want to control when you pay taxes?
Do you want to take power back from the federal government?
Do you want greater freedom for you and your family?
Do you want to be more prosperous?
Do you want to see businesses flock to this country?
Do you want to see our economy boom?
Do you want more of the freedom that our Constitution guarantees?

These are simple questions, and The Fair Tax has the simple answer. What drives prosperity? Freedom. Once the repeal of federal income tax withholding becomes an established fact, you would immediately be keeping every single dollar you make (Fed). The dollar as vote would stay in your hands where it rightfully belongs. And then you will be the one to decide where your hard-earned tax dollar goes, not some fat-fingered politician who thinks he knows best!

Contact FairTax.org. Be sure to find out what it's all about and you will become an advocate for freedom.

Please explain to me...
When someone says the healthcare system in this country is broken, what do they mean?

2 of my sister in laws have had breast cancer and also one of them has had a brain tumor. My mother has had 3 kinds of cancer, one of those being colon cancer. All of them have survived. It has been at least 5 years for all of them and they are still around. My father had colon cancer 30 years ago and died with in 4 years of his surgery to remove the cancer. Seems to me things have gotten better. Also, none of these people are well to do, just your average american. So what is broke?

poor poor paul,
who wants to change anything?????paul i said it and i will say it again the us govt will always have handouts that include repigs and dems...so stop complaining about it, as if you had a repigs president it wouldnt happen...under bush,reagan,clinton,bush 2 we had them...stop showing your self to be a meathead, believing in repigs redmeat....are you a hungry lion????

lloyd the loser
last night you were claiming the country had a surplus in the treasury befor bush came to office.

I am still waiting for you to provide your proof this existed.

The fact remains you are just like your messiah a clueless troll. But you have substantiated one fact.

You know nothing about what flap ears is doing and how the economy works. But you hav e admitted you voted for flap ears based on race issues alone.

But like others who show up to defend the messiah you see no problem with his using as mentors and substitute daddy;s anti-semites 'nd overall haters of whites.

Or are you going to tell us that wright and farrakhan are persons of love and compassion.

But last week, wright again showed the world he is a real hater when he had his anti-semite rant.

But point out why we shouldn't show flap ears the same disdain he shows for this country .

Alas you are that stupid you have no idea what your messiah and god posing as president stands for.

In your pathetic existence all flap ears represents is pay back for imagined sins of whites. But what will yopu do when the repubs gain control of congress in 2010 and they impeach the corrupt acorn fool from chicago.

You will join the chorus of america being racist rather than the congress led by repubs saving america from the socialism you and flap ears long for

Churchill Q. Washington
How about just making taxes voluntary?

cactus head
surpus's Read Alan Greenspan's book, 'Age of Turbulence.

We start on page 213, enter George 'W' Bush.

"The other issue looming large for the Fed was the disappearance of the national debt. Strange as it may seem in hindsight, in January 2001 the possibility was real. Nearly a decade of rising productivity and growth and budget discipline had put the U.S. government in a position to generate surplus's 'as far as the eye could see,' to borrow the phrase coined by President Reagan's budget director David Stockman in projecting deficits nearly two decades earlier. Even allowing for the recession that might now be setting in, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office was getting ready to raise its projection of the surplus to a stunning $5.6 trillion over ten years. This was $3 trillion higher than the CBO had forecast in 1999, and $1 trillion more than it had predicted just the previous July."

Let's not forget that Ronald Reagan appointed Greenspan to be Chairman of the Federal Reserve.



Zapddat
The Fair Tax is completely voluntary. Only when a purchase is made at the retail level, on new items only, is the tax assessed.

the original meathead from az pt.3,
confused redmeat eater you are one sick person....you are just making up things that you know nothing of...i know President Obama is going to be great because you did the same thing to President Clinton...yes i said it surplus and the repigs spend it like drunken sailors...next up what a sad bunch of hypocrite....keep on talking about rev.wright and see how much elections you will win with that.....the american public knows the difference between President Obama and all the others you have try to link to him....i want to see you guys keep this up to 2012.....so we such link the rightwingers who have kill cops and shoot up the jews museum to rush and shawn and beck because we know they read their books and listen to them on hater radio....

Churchill Q. Washington
Aren't Business to Business transactions excluded from the fair tax?

If I want a new car, a start my own taxi service, and buy myself a tax free car. My dream was always to be a taxi driver.

With the IRS gone I'm on easy street with my tax free car! Yippeee!

It will suck for all the old people who will now how to pay a fat tax on their medical bills. Suckers!

To First:
First writes:

"Republicans have created a Nanny State culture with massive tax giveaways to unworthy billionaires under Bush. As billionaire investment guru Warren Buffett remarked-he pays less in taxes then his secretary who nets about 37K a year."

Me:

There are 135 million people that pay taxes in the US.

The average income for an individual in the US is $29,000/yr.

In 2007, federal income tax revenue was 2.56 trillion dollars.

If you multiply the average person's tax bill, let's say $9,000, by the number of tax payers, you only come up with 1.22 trillion dollars.

A simple question to you:
Where is all the other tax revenue if the rich don't pay taxes???



Let's say the average tax amt. a person pays is 9,000 dollars,


zap @ 2:14
It appears your reading comprehension skills could use a little work.

You quote from Greenspan, "Strange as it may seem in hindsight, in January 2001 the possibility was real. Nearly a decade of rising productivity and growth and budget discipline had put the U.S. government in a position to generate surplus's 'as far as the eye could see,..."

We NEVER had the surplus, just the POSSIBILITY that it could happen. Then we had two events, the dot-com bubble burst Clinton recession and that little problem we had on 9/11.

To describe you accurately as clueless would be way to generous. Try thinking next time.

Zapddat
You will pay taxes on your new taxi, since it is the finished product. However, it is the parts makers and various assembly companies that will not have to pay, making the final cost to you much cheaper than it otherwise would have been and so the price stays the same ('revenue neutral'). YAY!

Can you clarify that last comment?


Zapodat
You asked why not make it voluntary.

I said it is completely voluntary.

Did that answer your question?

texas tea party
"In 2007, federal income tax revenue was 2.56 trillion dollars."

This is a lie. People like you also spout that 50% of the people pay no taxes.

"people making less than $20 k pay no income tax."

True, but a person making $20k pays $3060 every year in social security and medicare taxes.

Estimated receipts for fiscal year 2008 were $2.66 trillion. The top three sources are:

* $1.25 trillion - Individual income tax
* $927.2 billion - Social Security/payroll taxes
* $314.9 billion - Corporate income tax

You may casually dismiss Social Security taxes as not a "real" tax, but $927 billion is a real number, and EVERYONE pays that on their first dollar earned.

You'll notice that the taxes paid by individuals is nearly 7 times what corporations pay. What do you think about that?

The Social Security and Medicare tax collected each year is nearly three times larger than the tax collected on corporations, and yet, you may be a 'whiner and moaner' about the dreaded corporate tax.

Churchill Q. Washington
"You will pay taxes on your new taxi, since it is the finished product."

You do not understand the Fair tax, my friend.

B2B transactions are not taxed. If I start a taxi service, my new car will not be tax. Go and read Boortz's FairTax book.


lloyd the loser
you know nothing. The idea that morons like you project great things for your messiah is both premature and totally delusional.

The reason you admire him is that he is just like you another black with a hatred of america.

And like your messiah you admire the rev, I hate whitey, wright and louie, I hate the jews, farrakhan because they represent the same views you have

BUt no president has ever spend the way you god is spending money. But I posted yesterday you have no clue how much a billion is let alone how much a trillion is.

But again why would you care. You pay no taxes or would be concerned how flap ears is growing the deficit and how massive tax increases are coming for all.

And you own no real wealth or you would be concerned how how it is at risk. Many amewricans have lost not only the equity in their homes but large portions of their retirement accounts.

But alas you remain too stupid to understand that.

In you pathetic world all you care about is more handouts for parasites like you, too stupid and too lazy to provide for themselves.

As for violence I am sure you are a first hand witness to such activities. Blacks victimizing other blacks is the leading crime throughout the country.

These days the police are in danger of being shot by blacks and hispanics/illegals. But in your world that is justified since losers like you already believe the police are blatant racists

kingrex
"We NEVER had the surplus, just the POSSIBILITY that it could happen."

Yes, and Bush and the Republican party squandered it. How much damage was done to the economy from 9/11? Didn't the USA go from Pearl Harbor to Tokyo Bay in three and a half years?

If so much damage was done on 9-11, how do you explain the Republican party's domestic spending binge?

No We Will Not
This health care Debate, reminds me of the Texas Automobile Insurance debate. X Insurance company offers you "full coverage" to protect your auto from loss, and tells you that the same premium you paid the first day is the same premium you are paying two years later that now only covers the "actual cash value" of your car. X President is selling the same Lie, and if the People in Texas fell for the Auto Ins. scam, I think they will buy this lie for $19.99 and get the President and Democrats for just shipping and handling.

First
Please read up on real capitalism because it is infallable. Real capitalism is many small businesses competing for the services of a informed buyer. All the things you hate about capitalism have absolutely nothing to do with capitalism. Communist Russia is more capitalistic than the industries Warren Buffet and a George Soros "made" their money. The reason they were able to make huge amounts of money is because they used the government to create and increase inefficiencies in the market. It was the government that made them billionaires. The sociopath George Soros couldn't run a lemonade stand, unless he was stealing from competing ones. Warren Buffet is an insuranceman. There's a capitalism market. Madoff was able to do what he did because he had the creditability of being the Chairman of the stockmarket and the backing of the US government (they keep on approving and legitimizing him).
Your second logic flaw is "there are sociopaths in big business stealing money and the solution is to kill big business with an even bigger government." Where do you think the sociopaths go? They never go away. They flock to power like fly to horsecrap. So if you create a big government guess who will be running it in 5 years? The Madoff family. I get that you hate capitalism (because you don't know what it is), but I don't get your solution (huge government=utopia).

Zapodat
I just attended a Fair Tax forum and your example was cited as a common misperception. True, B2B are typically not taxed with the FairTax. But in the case of your taxi, you will not be 'adding value' to the product as such.

In either case, why should that represent a problem to you?

Churchill Q. Washington
"But in the case of your taxi, you will not be 'adding value' to the product as such."

I am adding value, not a 'manufacture' value, but a 'service' value.

zapdoodat
Congratulations, you incorrectly attributed to me the following:

"people making less than $20 k pay no income tax."

Never wrote it.

zapdoodat:
"You'll notice that the taxes paid by individuals is nearly 7 times what corporations pay. What do you think about that?"

FYI, corporations NEVER pay taxes, only consumers. Corporations pass along their tax burden on to the consumer. That is why having high tax rates always fail to accomplish their intended goal.

I say eliminate ALL of it and have 2 rates:

25% income tax rate for anyone over $100,000.
10% for everyone else.








Zapodat
"But in the case of your taxi, you will not be 'adding value' to the product as such."

I am adding value, not a 'manufacture' value, but a 'service' value.

***********


Gee, I like the Fair Tax even more!





texas tea party
"Corporations pass along their tax burden on to the consumer."

So...let them pass it onto their customers.

Corporations use government resources, let them pay.

Churchill Q. Washington
"Gee, I like the Fair Tax even more!"

It gets even better.

I buy a house as an investment, and my brother buys a house as an investment. We rent it out to each other. No fair tax need apply!

Here We Go Again
"Corporations pass along their tax burden on to the consumer."

So...let them pass it onto their customers.

Corporations use government resources, let them pay.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The corporation will not pay the tax ultimately. You will. The corporations pass taxes onto the consumers ... ALWAYS.

Corporations use government resources?

Like what? Natural resources?

If the consumer is buying goods from the corporation, he is using government resources, as well.

Jason
Capitalism is not infallible because people are not infallible. While it is the best system that helps the most people, it is open to abuse, as history shows.

One of my favorite posters here, Voice of Reason said, "I believe that the strenth of Capitalism - which is the bedrock of American values - is NOT that it is utopian. In fact, its success comes from the fact that it is consistent with human behavior."

Zap
I understand why you despise Republicans because of how irresponsible they've been. A large number of us feel the same way.

You seem to be saying however, that you prefer to live under the larger in scope Democrat irresponsibility.

JMO
This subject is precisely why we have a Constitutional Republic rather than a democracy. If our "representatives" truly believed in the Rule of Law we wouldn't be having this discussion because the Constitution would have protected us from being looted to serve a super special class.

Mob rule is just another form of tyranny.

lobaazul
"You seem to be saying however, that you prefer to live under the larger in scope Democrat irresponsibility. "

I am being 'fair and balanced.' Many people here bash only the Democrats, so I will bash the Republicans, fairly.

poor meathead from az,
it took sometime, but finally you show yourself for who you are a racist and a President Obama hater.... did you read frank rich this weekend....there is no winning with ppl like u .....your know different to the man who kill the black security guard....i bet you were cheering him on.......hater

St. Denis In Obama's Red America
"The corporation will not pay the tax ultimately. You will. The corporations pass taxes onto the consumers ... ALWAYS."

Once again, let the consumer of the corporation's products pay the tax. If I do not buy the company's products, then the company can't pass it on to me.


"Corporations use government resources?"

uhhhh....ROADS, for one. Who builds roads and who has to pay for them.

Once again, you must be a Republican, you believe in Big goobmint, you just can't be bothered paying for it.

Choosing Sides
Results of the Gallup poll released today:

Those identifying themselves as Conservatives is 40%.

Moderates lose points and log in at 35%.

Way down at the end of the pile are the Liberals, who pull in a whopping 21%.

The poll also demonstrates that people are LIVID about higher taxes.

2010 predictor.

LMAO, zap

I am not a Republican. I am a fiscally-conservative CONSTITUTIONALIST.

If you do not like the tax code, take it up with the Democrats. You know the ones that take donations from Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Google, etc.

I Love Big Government?


ROTFLMAO, I hate the Federal government. I would drastically cut every programme except the military.

Listen up, everyone! ACTION ALERT!
Everyone-- just think about the people of Iran who are opposed to Ahmadinejad, demonstrating in the streets of Teheran. Compared to all the dangers they face by publicly opposing Ahmadinejad's "re-election", is it so hard for you to shoot off a few e-mails or make a few phone calls, from the safety and comfort of your home or office?

Send out e-mails to the Blue Dog coalition and Senators up for re-election next year (Hugh Hewitt's blogs have links to these Senators & Reps), to your own Senators & Reps, and even the Big House itself. Tell Congress and BHO that you oppose Obamacare.

Remember Obama's weakness-- he can't stand the thought that his popularity might be dropping. Start e-mailing and phone-calling now!!!

Anne, Where's Obama's Outrage?
"I've been watching some of those cowardly Muslims on the streets of Tehran the past few days. Where's your support?"

Of course, we support the protestors. Unfortunately, no one here is surprised since it is par for the course for the Mullahs and/or Ahmadinejad to steal the election.

Where is Obama's support?

His silence is being criticized by many around the world. The Telegraph in London is calling him a flat out coward.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/nile_gardiner/blog/2009/06/15 /the_iranian_election

State Says No & Iran May Get Us $$$

The US State Department has refused to condemn the Iranian governments crackdown on the protestors. Two to three million people are at the rallies and the military has opened fire on the crowd.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/15/good-news-state-depar tment-refuses-to-condemn-iranian-crackdown/


Further, it is up to the Blue Dog Democrats to block Iran from getting American dollars through the ridiculous proposal of the pols in Washington to bailout the IMF.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/15/will-the-blue-dogs-ke ep-iran-from-getting-american-cash/

St. Denis In Obama's Red America
"I would drastically cut every programme except the military."

How about the CIA, NSA and the VA?

Would you cut the interest payment payouts on all the US Treasury Securities we've sold the last eight years?

St. Denis In Obama's Red America
"If you do not like the tax code, take it up with the Democrats."

Has no one told you that the Speaker of the House was a Republican from January, 1995 through January, 2007?

Misplaced liberal hatred
All of this complaining about corporations not paying taxes, etc. is just a manifestation of liberals strange hatred of the rich. Here's an example:

Their hatred of oil CEOs making too much money is well known.

The total salaries of the top 5 oil company CEOs are approx. $200 million/year.

So, if you take 200 million people that drive and fill up their cars 40 times/year. That is less than 3 cents per fill up from each person that goes to the oil CEOs.

And THIS is what drives their hatred toward the oil CEOs???

You all need to find a new boogey man...




Oh, please, zap

The Democrats have controlled Congress for over two years. Besides, the manner in which corporate taxes are passed through onto the consumer has been around forever.


Unlike Obama, I would uphold the Constitution's Contract Clause. The interest payments would continue pursuant to their contractual terms, but no similiar contracts would be made in the future. The old contracts would die out.

"How about the CIA, NSA and the VA?"

It is my opinion that they are related to the military in that they all work together to defend the nation. National defense IS a Constitutional responsibility of the Federal government.

texas tea party
"The total salaries of the top 5 oil company CEOs are approx. $200 million/year."

When CEO's go for all the compensation they can get, it's called capitalism, when unions grab all the compensation they can negotiate, it's called socialism. So much for the free market.
Hypocrite!

Socking It To The Rich...

Will result in you being socked, as well.

Dan Mitchell has another of his indispensable videos on economics from the Center for Freedom and Prosperity. This time, Dan goes after a staple of American politics — class warfare. Once thought mostly dead, this cheap populism arose again with a vengeance in 2008, at first fueled by John Edwards and adopted by Barack Obama. But as Dan points out, the data shows how damaging that kind of economic policy can be to standards of living, employment, and wealth creation:

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/15/video-class-warfare-e conomics-wont-work/

Unfortunately, the next few years will provide a laboratory for a full-fledged pursuit of “soak the rich” economics, as if we didn’t have enough evidence of it from the 1970s and before. Videos like these will become more important as we remind people that all of the pain we will suffer from these policies will be entirely self-inflicted, which may create an even stronger impetus for the return of fiscal conservatism.

St. Denis In Obama's Red America
" National defense IS a Constitutional responsibility of the Federal government."

So is providing for the general welfare.

"I would uphold the Constitution's Contract Clause."

You should have told Bush and Paulson. Paulson told top bankers last fall, that "they would have to accept government investment for the good of the American financial system."

Hugo Chavez, Venezuela's socialist president, found this a stunning move. He said, "Bush is to the left of me now!, Comrade Bush announced he will buy shares in private banks. Viva La Revolution!"

zap!
Is there ANYTHING in my last comments that went anywhere in the remote vicinity of the topic of unions????

I didn't say a WORD about unions. I just addressed the topic of left wingers and their wealth envy problem!!!

Stop reading into posts and start reading posts!

"Curiouser And Curiouser"
"Senator Charles Grassley has demanded records from the Obama administration over the dismissal of the Inspector General for Americorps and raises the possibility that Barack Obama broke a law he co-sponsored in the Senate that protects the independence of the IGs. The firing comes as the Obama administration cut a sweetheart deal with a major Obama backer that allows him to receive federal funding as mayor of Sacramento, and fails to repay taxpayers for the money Kevin Johnson admittedly took illegally ...

Hope and change! It looks very suspicious. The administration has overtly interfered with the IG in his investigation, and now has tried to fire him, apparently for reporting to Congress. If so, then the White House has abused its power on behalf of a campaign contributor and political ally — an act that would make Richard Nixon blush. I doubt this Congress will hold Obama accountable for it, but kudos to Senator Grassley for not letting it go."

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/15/the-curious-firing-of -gerald-walpin-gets-curiouser/


Why aren't the Libtards screaming? After all, they demanded an investigation when Bush fired the US Attorneys.

The difference is that the US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President. An Inspector General does NOT.


C'mon, Libs. Prove that you are not hypocrites.

"Curiouser And Curiouser"
"Senator Charles Grassley has demanded records from the Obama administration over the dismissal of the Inspector General for Americorps and raises the possibility that Barack Obama broke a law he co-sponsored in the Senate that protects the independence of the IGs. The firing comes as the Obama administration cut a sweetheart deal with a major Obama backer that allows him to receive federal funding as mayor of Sacramento, and fails to repay taxpayers for the money Kevin Johnson admittedly took illegally ...

Hope and change! It looks very suspicious. The administration has overtly interfered with the IG in his investigation, and now has tried to fire him, apparently for reporting to Congress. If so, then the White House has abused its power on behalf of a campaign contributor and political ally — an act that would make Richard Nixon blush. I doubt this Congress will hold Obama accountable for it, but kudos to Senator Grassley for not letting it go."

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/15/the-curious-firing-of -gerald-walpin-gets-curiouser/


Why aren't the Libtards screaming? After all, they demanded an investigation when Bush fired the US Attorneys.

The difference is that the US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President. An Inspector General does NOT.


C'mon, Libs. Prove that you are not hypocrites.

lloyd the loser
so trolls like you believe the dribble that passes for journalism from the nyt's. Who read the article to you, you have proven you lack the mental acumen to understand anything that is going on in this country.

So tell me bright boy where did I post anything about that hater who killed the guard at the holocaust museum.

But in your pathetic world ifg you don;t love and blindly follow the clueless messiah yoiu automatically hate him'

'That I see him as a clueless fool determined to destroy america because he believes in socialism with himself as dictator certainly means I see him unfir for office.

But I and others love this country even more than we can't stomach that fraud from chicago that you worship.

But lloyd the loser has yet to make his case for the messiah. You have yet to answer any questions concerning what flap ears is doing to the economy.

But then again you can't explain what you are that stupid you don't understand.

Have you figured out how much is a $triilion and that flap ears is running up the l;argest deficit ever seen in this country.

But to repeat why would you care. When you pay no taxes and have no real wealth, you have nothing to lose.

I would be willing to bet that many earners in this country lost more wealth in the past 6 months than you have earned in the last 10 years

oh wait affirmative action losers like you already can't earn what you are paid

But your jealousy of those who actually earn a salary and pay taxes really bothers you. I would ask you to man up and assume your responsibilities but first you would have to be a man and that you will never be


5 Hour Speeches
Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez said on Tuesday that he and Cuban ally Fidel Castro risk being more conservative than U.S. President Barack Obama as Washington prepares to take control of General Motors Corp.
During one of Chavez's customary lectures on the "curse" of capitalism and the bonanzas of socialism, the Venezuelan leader made reference to GM's bankruptcy filing, which is expected to give the U.S. government a 60 percent stake in the 100-year-old former symbol of American might.

"Hey, Obama has just nationalized nothing more and nothing less than General Motors. Comrade Obama! Fidel, careful or we are going to end up to his right," Chavez joked on a live television broadcast.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ObamaEconomy/idUSTRE5520GX20 090603?feedType=RSS&feedName=ObamaEconomy&virtualBrandChann el=10441

On Bush...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/vene zuela/3207978/Hugo-Chavez-celebrates-comrade-George-W-Bushs -conversion-to-socialism-following-financial-crisis.html" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/vene zuela/3207978/Hugo-Chavez-celebrates-comrade-George-W-Bushs -conversion-to-socialism-following-financial-crisis.html

Comrade Obama is a poor ignoramus...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/22/chavez-obama-a-poo r-ignor_n_177814.html

Chavez celebrates Bush's conversion...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/vene zuela/3207978/Hugo-Chavez-celebrates-comrade-George-W-Bushs -conversion-to-socialism-following-financial-crisis.html" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/vene zuela/3207978/Hugo-Chavez-celebrates-comrade-George-W-Bushs -conversion-to-socialism-following-financial-crisis.html

On Obama...

http://swampbubbles.com/20090604/venezuela-chavez-says-comr ade-obama-more-left-wing



Zap, when you give 5 hour televised speeches, you have a lot of dead air space to fill up with invective.

Zap
" National defense IS a Constitutional responsibility of the Federal government."

So is providing for the general welfare.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Review the caselaw interpreting the "general welfare" clause. It is not a catchall for ridiculous crap like socialized medicine.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I would uphold the Constitution's Contract Clause."

You should have told Bush and Paulson. Paulson told top bankers last fall, that "they would have to accept government investment for the good of the American financial system."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who helped draft the AIG bailout? Geithner.

Who was Fat Al Gore's partner in the carbon credit crap scam? The Naked Emperor Hank Paulson.

Where was Paulson before he became Treasury Secretary? He was the Chairman of Goldman-Sachs.

Who was the only non-governmental individual that sat in on the TARP meetings? Paulson's successor at G-S.

Did G-S take TARP money? No. It just took $8bn from AIG, instead.

Who is continuing to support the financial institutions? Geithner.

The bottomline is that they are Opportunists without party affiliation.

Read "Opium for Opportunists" and you will understand how Opportunists always prevail. Just like George Soros, who made $1.2bn dollars last year by shorting the US dollar.

Rash and irresponsible
It is time for the Republicans to stand up and tell the truth. The excessive spending, pushing agendas and not reading bills is ridiculous. We must demand that our representatives act in an intelligent manner.

Lloyd NY
Please list the downside of OBAMA's bill.

Zapdoopdat---Socialist tyranny.
Socialism- Government power is exercised by compulsion,force, conquest, or legislative usurpation.
All power is concentrated in the ruling elite.
The people loose inalienable rights.
Government follows rule of elite instead of rule of law.
The people are structured into social and economic classes.
Problems are solved by the government issuing edicts, creating more bureaucracies, and charging the people more taxes to pay for these services. Taxes become oppressive.
Freedom is never considered as a solution.
Transfer of power becomes violent.
THose in power revel in luxury while the lot of the common people is one of poverty, stringent regulations and excessive taxation.

The Real Agenda

Last Thursday at a town hall meeting in Rio Rancho New Mexico President Barack Obama was asked why, when “so many people go bankrupt using their credit cards to pay for healthcare. Why have they taken single-payer off the plate (audience applause), and why is Senator Baucus on the Finance Committee discussing health care when he has received so much money from the pharmaceutical companies? Isn’t it a conflict of interest?” (more audience applause)

“Healthcare is one-sixth of our economy, so it is a complicated and difficult task. Congress is going to have to work hard, and everybody is going to have to come at this with a practical perspective as opposed to being ideologically pure in getting it done… Why not do a single-payer system? … A single-payer system is like, Medicare is sort of a single-payer system, but it’s only for people over 65, and the way it works is, uh, the idea is you don’t have insurance companies as middle men. " - Barack Obama

Question: More than 80 House Democrats are supporting a single payer, Canadian-style, Medicare for all healthcare system. It's HR 676. Why don't you support it?

Pelosi: "I've always supported single payer."

Health insurance companies will be eliminated, people will not have a choice, bureacrats will run the system, rationing will be necessary to pay the tab, and our healthcare will be ruined.


Obamanation downturn
OBAMA IS RUSHING TO GET HIS PROPOSAL OF A NATIONAL HEALTH CARE PASSED BY CONGRESS. WHEN ALL THE LIMITATIONS THAT CURRENTLY EXIST AROUND THE WORLD IN SOCIALIZED MEDICINE COUNTRIES ESPECIALLY AMONG THE GAYS THAT ARE BORN WITH A CONDITION NOT COVERED BY THE HEALTH PLAN, HOW MUCH WILL THE GAY COALITION BACK THE PLAN OF OBAMA? IT WILL ACTUALLY BE A DOSE OF MEDICINE FOR THE ANTI-AMERICAN COALITION OF HATE THAT IS TRYING TO FORCE GAY MARRIAGE DOWN AMERICANS THROATS TO HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE THAT FORCE THOSE BORN WITH PRECONDITIONS TO WAIT IN LONG LINES BECAUSE THE MEDICINE IS UNIVERSAL. REALITY IS THE ONLY THING THAT WILL OPEN THE EYES OF THE SOCIAL JUSTICE ANTI-AMERICAN AMERICORP MEMBERS.

St. Denis In Obama's Red America
"National defense IS a Constitutional responsibility of the Federal government."

Are you saying the $120 billion a year social-engineering experiment in the Middle East is for national defense?

And, Who Is Stopping It...
Howie Klein has a rundown of all the money that the people who are blocking real reform in health care have received from the health care industry.

Arlen Specter (R-D- PA- $4,026,933)
Max Baucus (DLC- MT- $2,833,731)
Mitch McConnell (R-KY- $2,758,468)

And when you just go right to Big Insurance, the non-presidential candidates who got the biggest legalized bribes were the 7 senators who have been tasked with the job of killing single-payer:

Ben Nelson (DLC-NE- $1,196,799)
Max Baucus (DLC- MT- $1,184,113)
Joe Lieberman (DLC- CT- $1,036,302)
Arlen Specter (R-D- PA- $1,035,530)
Chuck Schumer (D-NY- $981,400)
Mitch McConnell (R-KY- $929,207)
Chuck Grassley (R-IA- $884,724)

Obama does not have the votes in the Senate and he will be unable to achieve a single-payer system with only House Liberals.

And, Who Is Blocking It...
Howie Klein has a rundown of all the money that the people who are blocking real reform in health care have received from the health care industry.

Arlen Specter (R-D- PA- $4,026,933)
Max Baucus (DLC- MT- $2,833,731)
Mitch McConnell (R-KY- $2,758,468)

And when you just go right to Big Insurance, the non-presidential candidates who got the biggest legalized bribes were the 7 senators who have been tasked with the job of killing single-payer:

Ben Nelson (DLC-NE- $1,196,799)
Max Baucus (DLC- MT- $1,184,113)
Joe Lieberman (DLC- CT- $1,036,302)
Arlen Specter (R-D- PA- $1,035,530)
Chuck Schumer (D-NY- $981,400)
Mitch McConnell (R-KY- $929,207)
Chuck Grassley (R-IA- $884,724)

Obama does not have the votes in the Senate and he will be unable to achieve a single-payer system with only House Liberals.

Thank God.

Joycey
"It is time for the Republicans to stand up and tell the truth. The excessive spending, pushing agendas and not reading bills is ridiculous."

They are going to be looking in a mirror when they say this, right?

The Real Agenda
Last Thursday at a town hall meeting in Rio Rancho New Mexico President Barack Obama was asked why, when “so many people go bankrupt using their credit cards to pay for healthcare. Why have they taken single-payer off the plate (audience applause), and why is Senator Baucus on the Finance Committee discussing health care when he has received so much money from the pharmaceutical companies? Isn’t it a conflict of interest?” (more audience applause)

“Healthcare is one-sixth of our economy, so it is a complicated and difficult task. Congress is going to have to work hard, and everybody is going to have to come at this with a practical perspective as opposed to being ideologically pure in getting it done… Why not do a single-payer system? … A single-payer system is like, Medicare is sort of a single-payer system, but it’s only for people over 65, and the way it works is, uh, the idea is you don’t have insurance companies as middle men. " - Barack Obama

Question: More than 80 House Democrats are supporting a single payer, Canadian-style, Medicare for all healthcare system. It's HR 676. Why don't you support it?
Pelosi: "I've always supported single payer."

Health insurance companies will be eliminated, people will not have a choice, bureacrats will run the system, rationing will be necessary to pay the tab, and our healthcare will be ruined.

Zapdoopdat---Free market- Freedom
ON our Liberty Bell are the words--"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." These Words are a command from God to the Israelites.

Fundamental to the People ruling themselves is a strong commitment to morality. Ben Franklin, "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt, they have more need of masters." John Adams--"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
The land is owned privately not by the government.
The main thrust of government is from the people upward.
The government is limited by the principle of law and not the whims of men.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE


Sorry
for the double posts. I keep getting the insufferable "No page to display" junk.

Long overdue Health Care reform
"The United States in particular stands out as having the most severe health care access problems related to cost, the greatest medical expense burdens, and the most pervasive inequities in care between adults with above-average and below-average income."

(Comparison of Health Care System Views and Experiences in Five Nations, 2001: Based on Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey)

The Republicans and the Right obviously do not consider the millions of poor Americans (and there are millions)as deserving of proper health care. T o them poor Americans are less than human. Why they'd spend more on their family pet.

Says something about the "Christian" society we live in, eh? Guess we aren't our brother's keeper?

What would Jesus do?

Zap
Why do you support the Democrat Party?
A majority of politicians in this country are scoundrels. Including and most prominently your precious.

If you care about this country you will stop supporting socialists.

Joycey
"A majority of politicians in this country are scoundrels. Including and most prominently your precious."

Where were you the last eight years as the country was slowly and inexorable brought to its knees under the Republican party's malfeasance?


ralph the retard
why haven't you lefties told the parasties in this society they have an obligation to take care of themselves and prepare to take charge of their lives.

Exactly why haven't you trolls pushed the importance of getting an education.

Why do you trolls continue to tell the earners they have an obligation to bail out the parasites who have a lifetime of making bad choices they can't pay for.

Why haven't you lefties told the parasites that having a moral code and taking care of their own responsibilities.

But I see you are another who thinks the earners must be burdened with even higher taxes to take care of the losers

But your messiah has also said that even drug addicts should have access to quality health care even though they are in the midst of committing suicide

As for me, I say screw the parasites. If you are that concerned liquidate your wealth if you have any and take your bleeding heart and reward the losers you want want to enable.

You have never made your case for having a bleeding heart. But are you also telling the parasites they need to help themselves.

And what of those who are not christians, exactly why should they subscribe to your phony posturing about helping the poor is a religious obligation

Obama Nanny State (Health Care)
There will be NO public health plan, if the average citizen has anything to say about it. The majority of people want control of their family's medical options. For those that really believe this is sound judgment or that they won't lose control of making choices for plans, treatment, and physicians if the federal government takes over (i.e. U.S.P.S., Amtrak, GM, Chrysler, Banks, Insurance Companies); then I have a plot of land in the middle of the Atlantic to sell you...

Per my earlier comment on selling a plot of land in the Atlantic to those true believers in the administration’s health plan offer: As with all the current governmental decisions; only "AFTER you've signed onto / bought into the public health care plan"-- Then I'll take time to clarify all the details: "The land I will have sold you, just happens to be several thousand feet deep, somewhere close to Atlantis." Good luck in building on it...

Reply to RALPH in FL
You said:
"Long overdue Health Care reform
"The United States in particular stands out as having the most severe health care access problems related to cost, the greatest medical expense burdens, and the most pervasive inequities in care between adults with above-average and below-average income."

(Comparison of Health Care System Views and Experiences in Five Nations, 2001: Based on Commonwealth Fund 2001 International Health Policy Survey)

The Republicans and the Right obviously do not consider the millions of poor Americans (and there are millions)as deserving of proper health care. T o them poor Americans are less than human. Why they'd spend more on their family pet.

Says something about the "Christian" society we live in, eh? Guess we aren't our brother's keeper?

What would Jesus do? "

Jesus was a Socialist. He came to love and care for the sick, the weak the needy and the dispossed. He did not come into the world to kiss the feet of wealthy corrupt elites like Ken Lay, Berni Madoff, Hank Paulson, Dennis Koslowski, Michael Milken, Leona Helmsley, and others whose staggering greed and callousness stinks all the way to heaven.

Christ would have abhorred the wickedness and corruption and naked greed of the false God "Capitalism". He would have upended the table of the money changers again. He would have seen Capitalism for what it is (a marriage of convenience between corruption and avarice) and the Satanic nature of the GOP and the sinful pride and greed and callousness of many "leaders" who defend torture, love war, and relish inflicting hardship and injustice on American citizens. He would have seen all of it and rebuked them for their cold heartedness and cast some into the sea or the lake of fire.
LiberalsLikeChrist.org

First

You are delusional. Jesus was not a socialist.

He did not force anyone into following him. He lead by example.

You socialists lead by force.

To Joel the Oppressor in NV
You said:
"Please cite the chapter and verse where Jesus or one of the Apostles state that the GOVERNMENT should own/control everything. I will not hold my breath while you search for that which does not exist.

Christ commanded us as INDIVIDUALS to CHOOSE to help the poor PERSONALLY, not to have the govt FORCE those with money to aid others."

I like your excuse to be selfish. Very clever but it will not fool God or any thoughtful Christian....only yourself.

Here's a start to help you out:
http://www.jesuschristsavior.net/Beatitudes.html

Let's remember that it is not the GOP warmongers but the Peacemakers who will be called children of God. All that Satanic waste of public tax money on war, weapons and funding torture and fomenting violence, dirty coal and nuclear tech, is an abomination before the Lord. The government should be providing healthcare, creating jobs, shoring up the land and infrastructure, making college free or inexpensive, protecting the planet, creating green energy, funding social security and giving a helping hand to the needy in other lands.

Render to God what is God's and to Ceaser what is Ceasers. This is Christ's call for citizens to pay taxes to the government to see to the tasks of public policy are met. Healthcare is an obvious government job especially as Capitalists have abused the public and fleeced policy holders while denying the poor and the ill.

Here's another resource for you you can read without space limitations here.
http://liberalslikechrist.org/LLC_JavaMenu.htm

Sharon
It happens already. and as Obama has said if you like your current plan you can keep it. Kinda like if you don't like the post office you can use fedex or UPS. More freedom.

That means you will have the opportunity to choose whether you want you healthcare decisions to be made by a government employee accountable to elected officials or a insurance company whose boss gets a bonus based upon how little they have to pay out.

Joel
Jesus's time was very different from our own, but I would bet that if he were to return today he would find himself less interested who or who helps the poor than that they get help. Would Jesus be a socialist? No he would not care. Would he be a liberal? Yes.

JMO51

Please read my post containing Obama and Pelosi quotes where they say that their aim is for a single-payer system.

Of course, I am thankful for the Democratic and Republican senators that are against it even if they are in the pockets of the insurance companies.

Jesus would not be a Liberal. He abhors abortion and homosexuality.

JMO51
I doubt that. He believed that it was the individual's decision whether or not to help the poor, not the government's. If he had believed thst, he like as not would have said it.

Jesus would NOT be a LIBERAL!
First: Liberals do not believe in the Bible as the pure and authentic word of God. Jesus did> He said that He was the fulfillment of the Word of God.

Second: Jesus was God in the form of man who came to Earth as a baby, to die for the sins of all mankind. Liberals do NOT admit to any sins -especially the sin of abortion.

Third: Jesus would not condone abortion in any tri-mester let alone in the third tri-mester, and he would not condone letting a living breathing child die in a custodial closet in a hospital as Liberals do.

Fourth: Jesus had no use for massive centralized government like the Roman Empire was and like America has become. He also did not care a whit about government programs ... he said render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's and render unto God that which is God's.

Fifth: Jesus IS the Messiah / not Obama like most of your Liberals think ... and Jesus IS God / not "like" a god as that idiot down at Obama HQ's said on TV the other day. What an embarrassment.

Jesus would also NOT be a conservative by the way ...

Jesus was and is the SON OF GOD ,,,and welcomes all who repent of their sins and take up their cross and follow HIM.

Jesus said ... I am the way the life and the truth ... NO MAN comes to the Father EXCEPT by ME!

Repent for the time is at hand when all men will be judged by the LORD and Savior Jesus Christ.

USPatriot56

Joel
"Please cite the chapter and verse where Jesus or one of the Apostles state that the GOVERNMENT should own/control everything."

Please recite the chapter and verse where wealth is redistributed from the bottom to the top as the Republican party does?

Jesus would not be a Liberal
First: Liberals do not believe in the Bible as the pure and authentic word of God. Jesus did> He said that He was the fulfillment of the Word of God.

Second: Jesus was God in the form of man who came to Earth as a baby, to die for the sins of all mankind. Liberals do NOT admit to any sins -especially the sin of abortion.

Third: Jesus would not condone abortion in any tri-mester let alone in the third tri-mester, and he would not condone letting a living breathing child die in a custodial closet in a hospital as Liberals do.

Fourth: Jesus had no use for massive centralized government like the Roman Empire was and like America has become. He also did not care a whit about government programs ... he said render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's and render unto God that which is God's.

Fifth: Jesus IS the Messiah / not Obama like most of your Liberals think ... and Jesus IS God / not "like" a god as that idiot down at Obama HQ's said on TV the other day. What an embarrassment.

Jesus would also NOT be a conservative by the way ...

Jesus was and is the SON OF GOD ,,,and welcomes all who repent of their sins and take up their cross and follow HIM.

Jesus said ... I am the way the life and the truth ... NO MAN comes to the Father EXCEPT by ME!

Repent for the time is at hand when all men will be judged by the LORD and Savior Jesus Christ.

USPatriot56

Realistic
Is there any reason for the President to believe that the Repub Party will act in good faith? We know that Limbaugh will oppose anything and everything that comes out of an Obama White House. We know that Republicans will not cross Limbaugh. We know that the Repub Party has totally opposed everything so far. By the over-the-top snarkiness in this column, Repubs like Parker don't appear ready to offer anything but opposition. So, why wait?

Where's the birth certificate?
There is a solution to the Obama problem.

And if all of you really wanted to solve the Obama problem, you would be be active in forcing Obama - the fake POTUS - to release his long form birth certificate, his college transcripts, and his passport information.

Why whine, when you can help rid the nation of this facist fiend in president's clothing?

Simply visit http://www.worldnetdaily.com and get in on the fun. Save America.

WHERE'S THE Birth Certificate?

USPatriot56

us patriot 56
"Fourth: Jesus had no use for massive centralized government like the Roman Empire was and like America has become. He also did not care a whit about government programs ... he said render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's."

Jesus was ambivalent about 'massive centralized government,' hence the statement 'render unto Caesar....."

You'll notice that paper currency has 'The United States of America' printed on it.

Now go, and render unto Caesar what is justly his.

To be fair
I should have also added that Democrats don't act in good faith when they're out of power either.

us patriot 56
"WHERE'S THE Birth Certificate?"

President Hussein has intentionally not released a copy of his birth certificate. His strategy is to keep the 'Moron brigade' distracted.

Do you think his strategy is working?

USPatriot
If the State of Hawaii says that he was born in this country, why shouldn't that be enough? There was a birth announcement in the Honolulu paper announcing his birth.

Where's the birth certificate?
There is a solution to the Obama problem.

And if all of you really wanted to solve the Obama problem, you would be be active in forcing Obama - the fake POTUS - to release his long form birth certificate, his college transcripts, and his passport information.

Why whine, when you can help rid the nation of this facist fiend in president's clothing?

Simply visit http://www.worldnetdaily.com and get in on the fun. Save America.

WHERE'S THE Birth Certificate?

USPatriot56

Jesus is NOT a LIBERAL
First: Liberals do not believe in the Bible as the pure and authentic word of God. Jesus did> He said that He was the fulfillment of the Word of God.

Second: Jesus was God in the form of man who came to Earth as a baby, to die for the sins of all mankind. Liberals do NOT admit to any sins -especially the sin of abortion.

Third: Jesus would not condone abortion in any tri-mester let alone in the third tri-mester, and he would not condone letting a living breathing child die in a custodial closet in a hospital as Liberals do.

Fourth: Jesus had no use for massive centralized government like the Roman Empire was and like America has become. He also did not care a whit about government programs ... he said render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's and render unto God that which is God's.

Fifth: Jesus IS the Messiah / not Obama like most of your Liberals think ... and Jesus IS God / not "like" a god as that idiot down at Obama HQ's said on TV the other day. What an embarrassment.

Jesus would also NOT be a conservative by the way ...

Jesus was and is the SON OF GOD ,,,and welcomes all who repent of their sins and take up their cross and follow HIM.

Jesus said ... I am the way the life and the truth ... NO MAN comes to the Father EXCEPT by ME!

Repent for the time is at hand when all men will be judged by the LORD and Savior Jesus Christ.

USPatriot56

DemoCare
lower health costs by

Killing MORE Babies- no care for preemies

Killing Grandma- off to hospice we go

Invest in hemlock if this passes

RE Joel the Oppressor
"Yes, I was wounded several times and my sergeant didn't think I would make it...": maybe he should have called a medic?

Well SAid!
Our Commander in Thief is rapidly losing what credibility he had when he assumed office. His regime is little more than a pack of wolves circling the herds of cowards in the Senate and House. They fell for his wholly unbelievable line on the porkulus bill and Obozo, like a petty burglar, is returning to the scene of the crime.

PERILS OF SOC HEALTHCARE
so... it's no surprise the DEMS want the Soc Healthcare since it targets most harshly CHILDREN/SENIORS as well as the PUBLIC at large.... what does it mean??


how many people don't know that an EAR INFECTON LEFT UNTREATED will result in PERMANENT PHYSICAL handicapping of your child/person.

How many people DON'T know THAT allergies and asthma LEFT untreated will result in PERMANENT HANDICAPPING and/or death and even more so in children?

YOU CAN bet the DEMS knew and are still willing to sell down the river the PUBLIC BY insisting on dragging it's feet on kicking out the soc healthcare and bailout.

HOW MANY people don't know that the longer the DEMS drag their feet on KICKING out the bailout the HIGHER TAXES will have to go to offset the spending spree these WASH DC SLUGS are on.

Geightners so-called fix?? it's creating a re-inflation bubble scheduled to burst worse than the one we are in and it will occur in 7 years.

why is that relevant??? ONE YEAR LATER... the bill for the bailout becomes due and payable and if the USA CANNOT PAY?? WE will be bankrupted just like CUBA with a built-in SOC HEALTHCARE for POPULATION CONTROL.

Obama, Leader to ruin
"Big Ears" and his socialist, liberal cronies only want to drive us to moral and financial ruin with such policies and stupid programs as so-called "health-reform" better known as socialized medicine and "cap-and-tax".
This latest piece of socialist evil to be forced upon us is just another one that will bring programs will simply not work and will only cost us more money and drive us further into ruin.
It's well known that the private business sector with its competetion is the only solution and NOT Big Government.

Funny bumper sticker
"Please don't tell Obama what comes after a trillion."

Obama is a Communist.
Obama Fast Tracking Communism. He now has 28 Czars and counting, and is now about to start a new agency to deal with nothing but credit card regulation. The reason that the nation is Bankrupt is a Direct Result of Funding all the Other Worthless Agencies and Departments, and then enforcing all the rules and regulations they pass so that the agencies and their employees have something to do. They identify the problems to solve, then create an agency to deal with the problems, and then create the regulations to justify their employees and payrools. This is exactly how Socialism Works, and This Is Exactly what is wrong with the U.S. today, and Obama is just expanding it Faster and Wider than anybody else in the history of the United States. He must be stopped. In 2010, get out the Vote and Vote No To Socialism at every level of government and oppose any politician who in anyway, supports Obama and his policies.
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