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Monday, June 08, 2009
Star Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Civil Rights Challenge of Our Time
by Star Parker
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An incensed Andrew Sullivan -- homosexual journalist and activist -- told CNN anchor Anderson Cooper the other night that Barack Obama is ducking the "core civil rights challenge of his time."

For once, I find myself on the same page with Sullivan.

But he and I have very different ideas about what that "core civil rights challenge" is.

For Sullivan it's "gay rights." For me it's school choice.

We've got all kinds of flowery rhetoric from our president about the education crisis and the need to do everything to educate our kids. But, as is unfortunately often the case, Mr Obama's deeds are less inspiring than his words.

Most recently, and flagrantly, was the announcement that Obama would sit by and allow Congress to pull the plug on the five-year old voucher program enabling 1700 kids in Washington, DC to attend private schools. This despite a new study from Obama's own Department of Education saying that these kids outperformed their peers in DC public schools in reading. And that the vouchers, valued up to $7500 per scholarship, cost less than half the $17,000 per student that DC spends to maintain one of the worst public school systems in the country.

*** Special Offer ***

It's no secret that President Obama is very much the politician, and in this case one beholden to unions. So perhaps educating children is important to our president. But not quite as important as the perks of elected office.

But back to Mr. Sullivan, we have more than a difference of opinion about civil rights and political priorities. Sullivan's agenda not only is different from mine, but is one of the reasons I attach such importance to school choice.

Listening to Sullivan, you'd think that Barack Obama is anywhere from apathetic to antipathetic to the homosexual agenda. When Anderson Cooper asked him if Obama has "actually done anything", Sullivan darted back "No!"

But the president has proclaimed June "LGBT" (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender) month, with a long list of agenda items, including repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act.

His Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has just announced that same-sex couples in America's diplomatic corps around the world will now be treated identically, getting the same benefits, as traditional married couples.

And, a few days ago, the Obama administration announced the appointment of homosexual activist Kevin Jennings as assistant deputy secretary in the Department of Education's Office of Safe and Drug-free Schools.

Included in the mission of this office, according to the Education Department website, is "Administer the Department's programs relating to character and civics education."

Jennings founded and was executive director of GLSEN -- Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network -- whose mission is to strive "to assure that each member of every school community is valued and respected regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity/expression."

So what exactly is Sullivan upset about? This administration is assuring that children in America's public schools will be properly educated to see all forms of sexual behavior as acceptable.

But parents who don't want this have plenty to be upset about. Today's real minority group is low to middle income parents who want their children educated with traditional values.

Needless to say, sexual moral relativism is the last thing that black kids need to hear in school. Most important for these kids, who come overwhelmingly from single parent homes, and half in our urban public schools that don't graduate, is to be taught traditional values.

Of the 1700 kids in DC's soon to be defunct voucher program, 879 have been attending Catholic elementary or high schools.

Liberating our kids from the cesspools in our urban areas that we call public schools is the great "civil rights challenge" of our time.

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About The Author
Star Parker is the founder and president of CURE, the Coalition for Urban Renewal & Education, a 501c3 think tank which explores and promotes market based public policy to fight poverty, as well as author of White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner City Decay.
 
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How about
Instead of treating homosexuality as a civil rights issue, treat it as a handicap or birth defect?

instead of railing about the public school systems, promote the abolishment of truancy laws? When those laws were passed, it was to counteract the child labor "abuse" of the time. This in turn made it necessary to have "public" schools so all could comply. If you think that a lot of children would be uneducated, I would ask you how you could tell the difference?

The education of thousands of kids
..in urban school districts has long been an albatross around the necks of each presidential administration. Is a straight voucher system the answer? Would dismantling the current public system to be replaced by a voucher system reduce the classroom ratio, restore order and respect in every school, improve the quality of educational material for all, and ensure a competent administrative and teaching staff are prevalent each day of the school year?

One thing is for certain. Improvement in the system (by hook or crook) is a must-do. However, we must be certain to not throw the baby out with the bath water when we do meaning that if we design a system that is not beneficial for every kid who wants a quality education, then we will have failed.

In order for future generations to compete globally, we have to make better strides in improving our schools while making the importance of personal responsiblity an integral part of the teacher-student-parent relationship.

Tea Party WDC, 4th of July

Dear Ms Parker,

I wish you could attend the Washington DC Tea Party as School Choice is definitely something to talk about in John Marshall Park on Constitution Avenue.

I wish you would reconsider.

http://teapartywdc.ning.com/

This has NOTHING to do...
...with "equality" for homosexuals and other moral deviants, and has everything to do with the aforementioned touting their immorality as SUPERIOR to all forms of morality!

This has NOTHING to do with "the good of the nation," and everything to do with moral deviancy making itself top of the heap for as long or short a time as they can, regardless of the long-term costs to the country!

Inevitably, the usurpers will be cast down from their thrones, and at a horrific cost in lives, but they care not a whit about that! They just want to live like conquerors today... and let the Devil have tomorrow!

What one does with one's crotch
Does not belong in school under any circumstance. It is irrelevant to what will make America competetive in education again. Kids will be the first ones to tell you that.

Obama's solution
Dear Ms. Parker,
Don't you see? The messiah figures that if enough babies are aborted, there'll be smaller class size! Problem solved!

That's his Final Solution.

Waiting for his version of Mein Kampf to come out in print, and instead of "Dreams of my father," it'll say "Dreams of the Fuhrer."

Denmark Vesey
I work in an urban public high school in NJ. Here are the biggest issues:

Huge dollars poured into unaccounatble hands. Everyone in "administration" drives a Lexus!

Over accommodation of neighborhood/cultural behavioral norms. We go through phases of trying various things, such as "family lunches" at school, offering health care services at school based clinics, and bending attendance rules so that various "prefereces" are accommodated.

Hiring unsavory characters to "connect with the kids". This is on the new side and very troublesome to me.

The expectation on the part of the student body that success come easy; in fact, be manufactured and handed to them. There are some exceptions, and there are many of us who spend a lot of time with those kids to help them work around the gov't imposed mess they are in.

Schools always reflect the values of the neighborhood they are in. It isn't money, its character. It always is.

If I were a medical doctor...
... I'd prescribe diazapem for wild bill.

Take a pill, bill.

God hates Homosexuallity!
To whom it concerns,Our nation was founded by God fearing pilgrims who wouldn't have allowed such evil to be promoted in a school!If we as christians have no say as to where our tax money is spent that's representation that isn't being done on our behalf.We oppose the educating of immoral sexual behaviour to send millions of youth to hell.Obama ,Hillary Clinton and any other official in government will answer to God Almighty for promoting what God hates.Levticus18:22,Romans1:18-32,1Corinthians6.I see what Obama's agenda is and his fruits are evil!Soddom &Gomorrah were destroyed by God for homosexual and sexual perversion.Why do you think California is burning?Next God will burn the rest of the US up.Stop promoting what God hates!If you want economic recovery fear God and do what he says!Or else you'll continue to see this country suffer from economic collapse!Stop promoting gay rights and gay marriage!Marriage was ordained byGod Almighty to be between one man and one woman for their life,until death us do part!What don't you get about that?God will bring you all into judgement for promoting wickednessi.e.Homosexual agenda in schools ,fornication because you give out condoms and the pill without parental permission.Do you want to go to HELL because you corrupted the morals of minors which used to be against the law!

God hates Homosexuallity!
Seeing as you didn't give my last comment a chance to be put on the site,here it is again.I oppose the teaching of homosexualllity as a right choice and it's not a civil rights issue.Since when is sexuallity a civil rights issue?That's evil wanting to force evil down evryones throat!I object to my tax money promoting such evil!Where's my representation,HUH?I think that promoting condoms and the pill to children in a public school is corrupting the morals of minors which used to be against the law!I know God will send every teacher,politician involved in promoting homosexual lifestyle as okay and fornication as okay straight to Hell.Homosexuallity isn't a civil right!Sex isn't a civil right!

"Wild Bill"
What heap are homosexuals sitting on top of? You would think that for conservatives that talk a big game about less government in our lives, they are all about regulating the conduct of consenting adults. Ask conservatives to accept the idea of a gun lock and they get all crazy about my rights, but when it comes to the rights of Homosexuals to choose to marry who they love and are attracted to, you just accept that.

Please explain how Homosexual's getting married would in any way hurt you? Even if your holier than thou opinion their behavior is deviant, what effect that does that have on you?

Denise
Those same prilgrams were more than willing to push native americans off their land because they were in the way and as savages were not entitled to the same rights as they gave to themselves. So don't go all self righeous on us here. The fact is that homosexuals are asking for equal rights and you won't give it to them because the bible says so. This has nothing to do with the bible, it has to do with civil government and the last time I looked we don't have an official religion in this country.

So the question then is how does Homosexuals getting married hurt you? And if their behavior does not hurt you, their life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness should overide you not liking it or thinking it is wrong. It requires empathy to understand and appreciate how gay people see this marrage issue. An empathy that seem to be lacking in most conservatives.

Personal Challenge
All the information i have indicates that black Americans are more likely to favor school choice, value social and economic upward mobility, be more religious, and be more socially conservative than the average American. Can some kind articulate person explain to me why black people vote overwhelmingly for the party that makes no bones about destroying these things?

Thank God, children are grown!
I am glad that I do not have school aged children today. Although my grandchildren are ready to start school.

I am deeply concerned that providing a high quality education is now a distant second to acheiving political objectives in our schools.

Today social issues and private agendas seem to be what is important. This is confusing our young and robbing them of a good education. Teachers should be held accountable. They should not be part of any quota system. The only thing that should count is the quality of the product.

wow
This thread is full of sick and violent zealots.

I do agree. Ms. Parker, that Andrew Sullivan is being a bit impatient. Give the new President some time and he will do the right thing: work for equality.

I wouldn't worry too much about exposure to gay people at school - homosexuality is not catching. Tolerance is, though. Maybe that's what you're really worried about.

Education--about what?
Right on, Star! Education means "to lead out of
(hurtful ignorance)" Reading, writing, 'rithmatic, civics, communication skills( listening well and speaking with sense.) Bible
knowledge is a definite need. All these the
public cesspools don't bother teaching, or they
present a very flawed version of some of it.

Pistol
"Can some kind articulate person explain to me why black people vote overwhelmingly for the party that makes no bones about destroying these things?", you asked.

A LOT of us over the years have asked that same question and are just as puzzled as you. Not only do black people vote overwhelmingly for the PARTY that makes no bones about destroying these things, they also vote for those within their own community committed to the same thing. I've known more than one staunch liberal in my time who has privately admitted to me that he/she believes black America is one of the worst-led segments of the American populace.

One part of the answer is to take a look at the education system that most blacks are being schooled in. They are indoctrinated in liberal-run school districts that have dumbed down true learning. This is why liberals want to dumb down our ENTIRE public education system; when a populace does not develop the intellectual capacity to question, they are much more amenable to accepting automatically what they're told, no matter how outrageous or egregiously false. The communists didn't rigidly control the educational systems in their societies for no reason.

The only other answer I can venture is that the Democratic Party has become master deceivers, like Satan himself (no great revelation, I realize). They've been able to deceive blacks that conservatives are nothing more than wanna-be slaveowners and KKK night riders. Remember a Democratic Party ad from several years ago aimed at blacks that said, "When you vote Republican, you vote to allow another church to burn". And regrettably, blacks have bought into it. And nothing will change until, like the prodigal son in the 15th chapter of the Gospel of Luke, blacks themselves finally get fed up with eating what the pigs are eating - and realize that they need to change their thinking.

Denmark Vesey of 2:29
Your post is a perfect microcosm example of Obama's words and actions. You use positive loaded words like "compete globally" "personal responsibility" better strides" "improving our schools". Meanwhile the action you take is to vote for the man and party which guarantee the current miserable situation will get worse. By eliminating a cost effective and successful program, Obama is off to a great start.

Origin of Public Schooling
Contrary to Sandy's post above, the origin of public schooling was not in truancy and child labor laws. As early as 1650 Mass. required every community of 50 families to set up a public education system to teach the "fundamentals of reading, writing, ciphering and bible study."

This was because of a fundamental belief in the need for an educated and moral citizenry to sustain a free society.

It did not however prevent the choice of home schooling. Choice is the key here and our current public school system is clearly failing to produce an educated and moral citizenry.

I support Ms. Parker's call for free choice as a civil right. the lack of an educated electorate is what has brought us to the situation where more and more American's believe that the government can and should provide for each of them.

JMO51 -
You want to know how gay marriage would hurt others. The fact that two people want to be able to enter into the same contract of marriage in itself does seem as if it only involves those two and shouldn't be proscribed by law because it isn't infringing on anyone else's freedom.
.
The problem is that "normalizing" gay marriage will force others to participate in their lifestyle. And, no, I don't mean that straight people will have to shack up with someone of the same sex. You may (or may not) be familiar with a lawsuit in Arizona a couple of years ago. Elane Photography, a husband & wife photography team, was sued by a lesbian couple because they politely refused to photograph the couple's committment ceremony, saying "we only photograph traditional ceremonies".
.
Appallingly, the lesiban couple (with the help of well-funded activist organizations)won and Elane Photography was made to pay $6000 in damages to the lesbian couple -not to mention the legal fees they incurred defending themselves. And this happened in a state that didn't recognize gay marriage.
.
Gay activists wants society to see their union as normal and want to use government force to make it happen. Though many gay couples do just want to be able to get married and live in peace, the vocal, activist members of their ranks want to force the rest of society to embrace their lifestyle and teach their kids that it's a normal, healthy choice. To those activists, anyone who dares to disagree with them becomes a target for lawsuit. And, unfortunately, legalizing gay marriage would only make it easier for them to sue and harrass those who don't embrace their lifestyle.

Diversity is Killing America
Diversity in all forms whether cultural or sexual is killing America.

By stressing the differences and putting people into groups for the purpose of political exploitation or favoratism has been destroying America since the 1980s.

This diversity problem is championed by the left wing radicals because it facilitates their desire to destroy America.

Our President Obuma is a teacher of this deception called community activists (activism) that promotes one group over another by creating grievences between groups.

Obuma is the ultimate American promoter of hate and favoratism creating more diversity that results in more hate between groups which promotes Obuma's goal of the total destruction of America.

This is TOO Funny!
Check out this black conservative's blog on this subject! http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com/2009/06/gays-get-their- month.html

Why Blacks support the Democratic Party
As a proud conservative I would love to be able to blame the Democratic Party for the deception of the black population and therefore the affinity between the two.

Unfortunately, I put more of the blame at the feet of the Republican Party. It has failed to articulate a vision that is attractive economically disadvantaged populations for most of its history. It failed with the immigrant populations from Europe, it failed with the Black population and is failing with the Hispanic population.

I believe part of the cause is that economics trumps ideology and the Democrats have successfully convinced economically disadvantaged people that in the short term, the will be better off economically by accepting government benefits than creating a better future.

Isn't it ironic
that the two greatest enemies of American education are the teachers unions and the US Department of Education? Teachers unions (and I'm speaking from experience here) never mention the students in their meetings. It's all about teacher's issues. The US-Dept of Ed seems to exist only to devise more invasive testing, further eroding instructional time in the classroom. These test generators are, of course, highly paid political hacks. Federal bills one after the other use beautiful pictures of charming children in their TV ads and yet not a penny of these multi-billion dollar masterpieces finds its way into the classroom. While we still do not have enough textbooks for every student in the class, we have all the standardized tests and consultants we can handle and more.

Education must return to its local roots.

Sandy, I agree, end mandatory ed
and let people keep their own local taxes and pay direct tuition to the schools of their choice.

But homosexuality and school choice are neither civil rights, as they should be limited to correcting the denial of basic citizenship to people based on color and ethnicity, not personal decisions, like whom you sleep with.

Unions vote children don't
Would an excellent teacher push OBAMA to close any successful school? What kind of people are we allowing to teach children?

Stan
You are undoubtedly correct as far as you go. The GOP HAS done a lousy job of educating voters as to the consequences PC voting, and the Dems have done a fiendishly wonderful job of creating the classical image of "we are the party of the little guy". But the Dems make no bones about opposing all school choice, and the other disconnects i mentioned. I think it is just that there are so many people who have not the courage to acept responsibility for themselves. It is difficult to trust in a world one does not understand, so they choose the path of the pied piper who holds forth a vision of free bubbleup and rainbow stew. In simpler times, when most of us were farmers, it was easy to see the connection between work, good decisions and prosperity. This is not the case, here and now. So people give up their ability to choose (also known as freedom) for the false promises of demagogues.

Stan
I agree with you to some extent about why blacks have become such easy prey for liberals.

Although a large part of the reason so many blacks today ARE economically disadvantaged is because liberals have been able over the last 45 or so years to inculcate the kind of thinking in them that ENSURES that they'll STAY economically disadvantaged.

A black man I used to know during my days in Southern California perfectly illustrates the battle we're fighting. This black man was an immigrant from the Caribbean and a Pentecostal as well, so this was a man who should have known better. While this man was a successful working person, he also told me how he thought America was such a racist country. Yet this very same man ALSO told me, more than once, that in the 25+ years he had been in America, he had never once been personally subjected to any outward expressions of prejudice. And I thought to myself, "If America is so racist a country as you claim, than how is it that you've somehow managed never, by your own admission, to have been subjected to any manifest expressions of personal prejudice directed against yourself?"

How do we explain this dichotomy? It seemed obvious to me that this black man was listening to what others told him regardless of what his own real-life experience told him otherwise.

Republicans have done a poor job of selling their message to blacks, I agree, but when it comes to the capacity for barefaced and unashamed lying, liberals are the real pros here and will remain so. And again, until those that Democrats have been able to imprison in bad circumstances through believing unsound doctrimes tire of the destructive consequences enough to make a change in their thinking, like the prodigal son in Luke 15, they'll stay where they are - and continue to vote as they have.

Every child as an individual
has his own set of gifts, weaknesses, dreams and dislikes. A public school system monopoly is not fit to deal with the variety of mankind. It can teach children how to read, write and decipher numbers and memorize and understand the importance of obedience to the Constitution. So can any mother, father, sister, or brother that knows how to read, write and decipher numbers. There are excellent curriculums available which are self teaching. We no longer need schools at all.

Once a child has the basics they can follow their passion. We don't need equal outcomes in an economy. Many children love to do physical work which is very necessary and a gift. Some children love to care for others. Some children love to experiment. Liberty to the people.

I suppose there are parents that would take advantage and use their children as slaves. But on the whole a child earning money on his own at an early age to give and save and spend is a good thing.

Standshisground
I appreciate your reply.

Back in the 70's i was workinhg at Bell Labs with a very capable, well-educated black engineer. He was unable to explain why he voted straight Dem. He was aware of the social security Ponzi financing, the negative impact of dumbing down schools, but in the end it didn't matter. He said when he got down to it in the voting booth, he just couldn't vote GOP. My father-in-law was a Pearl Harbor survivor, career military, got a BSEE, woorked for NASA through the moon shot days. He votes straight Dem because TATPOTLG. Democrats are the party of the non-political unthinking short-sighted believers of the snake oil salesmen. So long as these are a majority, we have grief. Perhaps misery will make people get engaged.

The next demand
I didn't think that homosexual “marriage” would be the end of their demands:

“UK Secularists and Gays Demand Marginalization of Christians” http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/apr/07040408.html

a good summary, Star
re:
"Liberating our kids from the cesspools in our urban areas that we call public schools is the great civil rights challenge of our time."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Liberals believe that they're the ones who really care about educating children; yet time and time again, they support policies that hurt our kids, but help their political allies in the teachers’ unions.

Teachers' unions have not only crippled our school quality (resisting standards, protecting the incompetent, pushing a PC leftist agenda, fighting school choice alternatives like vouchers and homeschooling), but also are preying on taxpayers with too generous all-in compensation packages for teachers via union blackmail.

There is a perpetual urban myth that teachers are "ünderpaid professionals"-- generally they are NOT underpaid, and most hardly qualify as professionals.

http://bennett.com/blog/2007/02/the-myth-of-the-underpaid-t eacher/
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1955153
http://www.somdnews.com/stories/022107/indylet173141_32130. shtml

excerpt:
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, public school teachers earned $34.06 per hour in 2005, 36 percent more than the hourly wage of the average white-collar worker and 11 percent more than the average professional specialty or technical worker.

union-plagued public schools


There is only one area where unions have not waned in influence in recent years-- unions of those working for government who can force the taxpayer to eat their increased costs.

Consider teachers, postal workers, and bureaucrats... are you impressed with the service you receive from ANY of these "public servants?"

Postal worker clerks make exactly TWICE what their counterparts do working for the private companies... but ask yourself this-- if it is REALLY important to get it there on time, would YOU rely on the U.S. postal service?!

Teachers whine and bray perpetually about being, "underpaid professionals." Yet if you look at the average teacher salary, and especially if you factor in their true qualifications (such as Education majors-- an oxymoron to be sure), generous benefits including teacher pensions, time off, and job security versus other options, teaching starts to look pretty darned attractive!

And what of this tripe about you cannot truly test a teacher with written competency tests... how then can THEY presume to test your child's competency?

And WHY should someone who purports to teach students in H.S. not have to pass 8th grade equivalency tests with flying colors?

Something is rotten in the teachers' lounges--> all of the reflexively brayed bromides of vacuous apologia.

Sullivan needs to stfu
Like all one-issue zealots, Sullivan wants what he wants, and wants it now.

Obama has taken a hands-off approach to the gay rights issue because:

1. Gay rights are inevitable and will be brought about through the courts.
2. Referendums in numerous states make it clear the public is not ready for gay marriage, and therefore approaching the issue through the legislatures won't work...the courts are the only way.
3. Obama would expend HUGE political capital if he jumped into the fight. And since the courts are the only solution anyway, it's capital that would be wasted.
4. If Obama engaged it would give the Reps a wedge issue and distract from other key Obama policy initiatives.

But...Sullivan doesn't care about any of that. He wants Obama to be a bomb throwing radical on the issue, regardless of the consequences.

Go Get 'em Star!!!
I can hardly believe what is happening. Not just with the matters mentioned in this article, but many others!!! And, I am wondering if those who oppose are really the minority are if most just feel like there is nothing they can do. I have emailed my senators, who happen to be democrat, on two or three issues..........and their replies are basically....thank you, but this is what I am going to do and why. So I am feeling the same anymore. As long as the democrats have the power, they are going to use it to the greatest degree they can. They are ruining this country with each day.

urban myth teacher excuses
Another major myth is class size challenges. Unfortunately many teachers don't seem to command much respect from their students, so the NEA's answer is fewer kids per class, and keep the remainder on Ritalin, so the poor teachers can more easily control them.

Let's look at average high school class sizes, stats from nationmaster. Japan, 35.5 students, Hong Kong, 31.9 students, U.S. 18.3. Whose kids are doing better at math and science?

Oh and for fun, public spending on education as % of GDP: U.S. 5.85%, Japan 3.65% and Hong Kong 4.2%. There is NO correlation here between expenditures per capita and results, though other factors (race, bilingual ed) correlate highly adversely.

Now, consider the following, bearing in mind that Japanese teachers have less money and twice as many students. 35% of U.S. kids dislike school, compared to 25% of Japanese kids. 65% of U.S. kids find school boring, while only 32% of Japanese kids do. 38% of U.S. kids report high levels of disorder in their classes, compared to 17% of Japanese kids. Hmmm... pass the Ritalin.

"Gay" Rights
I suppose if a man wants to marry a man or a woman a woman that should be their right in a free society.

However, a private business owner or landowner, should have the right to hire and fire or rent or not rent to whomever hey choose for whatever reason in a free society.

education
It srarts in the first grade.You could hire people that want to be teachers to teach for two or three years before they become teachers(sort of a apprenticeship)Classes would be very small,and the only things they would teach,are the basics.Reading,writing and arithmatic.

Joel-De Oppresso Liber
Homosexuality catching, where did you come up with that twisted and irrational conclusion. Firstly, it is not easy being gay given the social rejection that is inherant in gays. Also most gay people go through some period of denial precisely because it is just so much easier to be straight. But over time the know who they are. Gay is not an ideology, or a political party or a view point. It is who you are. Straight people don't become gay by exposure and neigher does exposer to straight people make a gay person straight. If that were the case, there would be no gay people as straights certainly outnumber gay people by at least ten to one.

The Gay as threat is a convenient pretext for undermining the rights of gays when in reality thir rights come at no expense of your rights. Another big lie is that churces will be forced to marry gay people, not going to happen.

BIG LIE.

What it boils down to is whether you believe your religous doctrine should be reflected in the actions of the government. For someone who is all about limited government, it would seem to be quite logical that you would support gay's right to marry civially.

Government should stay out of the lives of citizens unless there is a compelling social interest or their rights come at the expense of others rights. Since that is not the case, you should frankly butt out of their lives and worry about the sorry state of heteosexual marrage and get your own house in order.


spending on education vs. results
(saved post-- slight edit)

Retired Geek Location: VA

Date: Apr 28, 2009 - 1:47 PM EST

America SPENDS MORE PER STUDENT THAN THE TOP FOUR RATED COUNTRIES COMBINED... SOMETHING SEEMS AMISS!

Per CBS News July 7, 2008

The United States ranks 18th.

------------------------------------------------
UNICEF rankings of educational systems in the world's richest countries, indicating the percentage of 14 and 15 year olds scoring below a minimum level in literacy, math and science:

1. South Korea 1.4 percent
2. Japan 2.2
3. Finland 4.4
4. Canada 5
5. Australia 6.2
6. Austria 8.2
7. Britain 9.4
8. Ireland 10.2
9. Sweden 10.8
10. Czech Republic 12.2
- (tie) New Zealand 12.2
12. France 12.6
13. Switzerland 13
14. Belgium 14
- (tie) Iceland 14
16. Hungary 14.2
- (tie) Norway 14.2
18. United States 16.2
19. Germany 17
- (tie) Denmark 17
21. Spain 18.6
22. Italy 20.2
23. Greece 23.2
24. Portugal 23.6


Pancho
Right on gay marrage. Wrong on the private owner. Private owners should not be allowed to descriminate everyones cash is green and as long as everyone follows reasonable rules, it should be unacceptable to choose to only hire or sell to people that you like.

It may be great when you are on top, but awful when you are on the bottom.

a cogent post I saved here

(slight edit for space and clarity)

stephen--
Location: MD

Date: Jul 30, 2008 - 5:37 AM EST

Subject: NEA and the negligence of GOP and Dems

I'm an NEA member. Unfortunately, it drifts into all kinds of extreme left positions that have little to do with the every day needs of kids. There is a learning deficit in US schools when it comes to the basics of science, math, English and most of all civics as we used to know it.

The NEA would divert resources from the basics and the teaching of American history and culture as it really was, to a scrubbed version of history and English that makes mediocre literature acceptable because of authors from minority groups who don't match up to our greatest writers in English.

History now is taught totally as the history of the civil rights movement. There is no place for patriotism or pride in the accomplishments of the military in the schools. While the NEA plays a negative role when it strays from its economic function as a bargaining agent for teachers, and focuses on lobbying and electing liberal Democrats, it is primarily the fault of local school boards, parents and state education agencies that PC education, promotion of socialist learning theories like group learning, and anti-American ideology flourish in our schools.

We will be left in the dust by China and India which do not bother with such silly nonsense, but stick to teaching hard rigorous courses and turning out well educated linguists, doctors and engineers. We will have to import all our professionals from abroad, except for lawyers and community organizers.

Our brightest kids are encouraged to become Barack Obama's, not science researchers, engineers, or historians of actual U.S. or English History.

I could go on, but I'm getting depressed!

Star is wrong
Obama opposes vouchers which is just an excuse to end the funding of public schools and plus produces dubious results. Obama does support charter schools something strongly opposed by the teacher's unions. Charters have a proven record of successes. Vouchers are a pig in a poke.

Behind every conservative voucher suppoter is someone salivating at the possibility of getting their private religious school funded by tax dollars or as an alternative exempting themselves from paying property taxes for the Public Schools. They care little or none at all for the welfare of inner city children.

At the end if the day it is all about lower taxes.

Pistol
And given how much the Democratic Party depends on the votes of black voters these days, we must expect that the Democrats will ramp up their lie campaign if need be to KEEP that voting bloc within their ranks. Democrats can't AFFORD to let the black vote get away from them - and will get as nasty as they must to keep it.

Conservatives simply can't compete with liberals when it comes to the realm of lying - namely because WE don't WANT to become comfortable in that realm while to liberals, that realm is their natural environment. Can you imagine a Republican Speaker of the House having the kind of unabashed shamelessness that Nancy Pelosi just exhibited in lyingly claiming she had no knowledge that the CIA was waterboarding - or that Hillary Clinton showed last year in claiming she had come under sniper fire in Bosnia?

I've used one Biblical analogy - the prodigal son in Luke 15 - to illustrate what conservatives are up against in blacks. But I can actually think of a better one, one I and many other conservatives who come to TownHall have used: the Israelites in the wilderness after God freed them from Egyptian bondage. They had the right kind of men in their midst that they should have listened to, like Moses and Joshua, but instead listened all too often to bad leaders in their midst like Dathan - and as a result, a whole generation died in that wilderness without ever coming into the promise and inheritance that was waiting for them.

That, unfortunately, is where too much of black America is today - and Democratic Party politicians are only too happy to be like Dathan and KEEP them in their wilderness.

Like you said and as I indicated before, only when blacks become sick enough of their misery, like the prodigal son in the far country, will there be real hope for a shift in their voting patterns. Until then, they'll be used - and discarded - by liberals like one would a cheap hooker.

Anyone who doubts the ultimate failure
of GM need only look to our public school system. The government and teachers' unions have ruined it. Money, power, and political advantage reign. What else could possibly explain the end of the voucher program in D.C.? Afraid it might be used as an example of how to cure the cancer that has plagued public schools in this country? Throwing money at the problem certainly hasn't helped. We have always undervalued children in this country and this is a prime example of how we continue to do them a disservice. It is shameful, really.

STAN, standshisground
Lots of insight in your discussion. It would be nice if we had some input from some black folks, left and right. It can't be denied that a huge percent of blacks see conservatives as racist. As noted, this is not so much from personal experience, as from erroneous perception from somewhere else. I had a conversation with a guy i met at a bed and breakfast. We talked for a while and after i agreed with most of what he had to say, he said You're not a conservative, you're a Liberal. No, I said, You are a conservative.

declining results-- SAT scores
An inconvenient truth is a long-term trend in dropping SAT scores. Most students go to public school, so they must be substantially held accountable.

It got so embarrassing that they "recentered," i.e., dumbed down, the SAT scoring in 1995 by about 100 points.

from article cited below:

* SAT verbal scores have dropped from a mean of 478 in 1962 to 423 in 1994-a drop of 54 points. The SAT mean math score has fallen from 502 to 479 - a drop of 23 points. While math scores have risen 8 points since 1984, they are still below 1974 levels.
The national verbal average has fallen 3 points since 1984.

During the same period (1960-90), spending on elementary and secondary education increased more than 200 percent, AFTER inflation. Class size has decreased by one third, enrollment has declined by 7 percent, and the number of teachers has increased by 17 percent.

Moreover, the decline in test scores came at a time when AVERAGE TEACHER SALARIES and the percentage of teachers with advanced degrees both TRIPLED.

http://www.sntp.net/education/education_stats.htm

Valerye
I agree with you. The agenda goes beyond marrage to normalization. So I have a question for you, should that photographer be able to refuse take pictures of an interracial couple bacause they find that offensive and don't want to promote the interracial lifestyle.

No churches will not be forced to marry gay couples, but could a catering hall be forced to rent to them probably yes. If a bunch of devil worshippers wanted to rent a hall they could do so as long as they don't sacrifice any animals.

As you have pointed out, the lesbian couple was able to sue without gay marrage being legal in Arizona, so gay marrage will not change anything. Most gay people just want equal rights, but sure there are some activists who want more.

Are you fundamentally opposed to the normalization of gays? How would that do any harm to you?

Valerye
My hope is that someday in this country of ours gay people will have all the rights that you take for granted. That includes the right to have their money be seen as just as green as anyone elses. This will happen bacause the biggoted homophiles will die off.

Change is difficult.

value in private schooling
Private schooling-- what a great bargain!

re:
"The average private school education costs
* $5,049 for elementary schools;
* $8,412 for secondary schools; and
* $8,302 for combined schools.

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/oii/nonpublic/statisti cs.html"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Public schools are markedly more expensive than this... in D.C. they are reportedly spending $15k per student, yet have wretched results and predictably say, "We need more $."
In fact, there is NO correlation between public school spending and measured results. Hmmm.

As for the paperwork burdens of public schools, that is part of the point-- too much $ is wasted on bureaucracy/administration
contributing nothing.

"Not to be to repetitive but private schools
have never statistically shown themselves
to be much better than public schools when
similar populations are compared."

A key point is that private schools ARE better for less $, and little of it funded by taxes, whereas ALL public school expense is everybody's burden.

Sorry, but every time someone defends public education it always gets around to fatuous, artful excuses... it reminds me of the P.O. saying they have to distribute all of the junk mail so that is why they are so expensive, but nobody will rely on them to send something that is time critical-- we all use Fed Ex, etc., when it is important.

With public education, it is ALWAYS excuses, excuses, excuses!

True Civil Rights = Limited Government
Great article, Star, as far as it goes. Substancewise, you're spot-on.

The REAL civil rights challenge is freedom v. totalitarianism. The issues Ms. Parker cites are only two aspects of that struggle, although the education issue is of particular critical importance, since not only can the institutional Left build a little empire supported by kneejerk emotional responses, but they get to directly indoctrinate the children.

The kind of "civil rights" they espouse are not true civil rights that limit government, but mobilizing the thugocracy to beat down ordinary people in the name of ostensibly righting some imaginary or historical group victimology grievance.

In the larger conflict, nearly every institution, including much of the Republican Party leadership, is now arrayed against us. We have to recognize that limited government is THE ultimate civil rights issue, & support candidates & advocates who recognize that fact & get on the right side of it.

School Choice
School Choice is one of the craziest ideas to come down the pike in a long time.

Why?

Because we are going to reward underperforming public school students with free tuition to private schools.

The private schools that parents sacrificed financially to send their children to ( to get them away from public school students in the first place).

The public school students will of course bring their problems with them. And everyone knows if only takes one or two troublesome students to disrupt a whole class.

To Pistol
Have you looked on liberal websites like AlterNet, Daily Kos, and Huffington Post? They have Comments threads just as townhall.com does. Most of the people who post there do so with a liberal point of view as is easily seen in their comments on political and social matters; I expect we could agree that they are liberal. I do not recall seeing these liberals post, on liberal websites, what I constantly see on townhall, a conservative website, posted by self-described conservatives. Let me offer you a composite of what I have seen on townhall:

"Obama is the Mulatto Messiah. His wife, Aunt Jemima, looks like a gorilla and has arms so long that her knuckles drag on the ground. Both of them are stupid and got into good schools only because of Affirmative Action. They now occupy The Black House. Already Michelle's mother has moved in with them and before long all the rest of their relations will be living there too, on the taxpayers' dollar.

"Obama's mother was trash because she went with a black man. No sensible white person would ever vote for a black president so obviously there are other reasons, for example White Liberal Guilt. Obama is not actually black---he just promotes that side of him for political gain. And, being racially mixed, he is not a Real American, therefore he is a) a secret Muslim extremist who intends to ruin this country then deliver it up to the Muslims or else b) a Communist agent but definitely c) not a Christian---whatever, just as long as we all agree that OBAMA IS DIFFERENT FROM US NORMAL WHITE AMERICANS. God intended the white race to govern and dominate because it is superior."

Then, invariably, conservatives posting to townhall assure us that they are not racist. I can only conclude that they exist in such a racist environment that they don't know the difference between "racist" and "non-racist".

Homosexual agenda
All I can say, Andrew, is pick another word for your legal, civl unions. Just leave the word marriage out of your plans, now and forever.
There is no homophobia in play here, but there is plate full of heterophobia coming from people like you.
If there is a civil rights issue in this, it is definitely the trampling of people who just want to keep their traditional word and all of its historical meanings. To them, not to you.

In my opinion, the great
Civil Rights struggle is the right to be born or the right to stay alive when others deem one's a life not worth living (think Terri Schiavo). With all the "right to die" legislation being pushed in some states, like Oregon and Washington, and, by judicial decree, Montana, the "Right to Life" of the Declaration of Independence is about to go by the boards. When that right is gone, of what value are any of the others?

Homophobia is a Misnomer
I don't fear homosexuals - I just find them offensive.

Not gonna happen...
But, but,…,then what would happen to the Lefts sacred cow of Affirmative Action in college admissions? Think about it. Given the enthusiasm with which virtually all college administrators embrace the concept of increasing an applicants chance of gaining admission if that applicant is black, it simple can not be argued that minus this process those same college administrators would then reduce an applicants chance of gaining admission if that applicant were black. Discrimination in the college admissions process is not the problem and introducing discrimination into the college admissions process is not the answer.

The problem is that too many applicants, largely but not exclusively black, arrive at the college admissions process unable to compete for admission based on merit, and that because of the poor quality of education they received up to that point. Fix that problem and the whole rationale for Affirmative Action fades away after just thirteen years as the first beneficiaries of a competitive education reach college age. That is less time than Affirmative Action has been in place during which time nothing has been done to address the root cause, and by the Lefts own ongoing rhetoric nothing has improved, things are as bad if not worse than ever so that Affirmative Action must continue on indefinitely with no end game defined or in sight.

It would seem to me that the proponents of Affirmative Action do not really want to solve the problem and prefer to simply continue to capitalize on it. And we are the uncaring mean-spirited ones with no exit strategy?

Wasting tax payer $$$$
All these homosexual/heterphobic agendas are wasting tax payers $$$ that should be used to help children, elderly and the truly needy.

The true human and civil rights are those of the unborn children and the disable trying to stay alive.

The school choice is an excellent point by Star and it shows the lack of love and the calculated camouflaged wickedness of bo who himself attended private schools yet keeps the system from instigating a program that would allow others the same priviledge. God help those children in the government schools that will no doubt be subject to the homos propaganda and indoctrination.

bo is a homosexual himself that is why he so calculatingly promotes that perverted sexual practice.

bo's strategy is to continue to put on the appearance of being level headed, smooth, cool under fire, in the meantime he himself is working deceitfully behind closed doors against all the values that make US a great nation and pushing his radical agenda which includes setting a month aside for homosexuals and more government control of businesses and all our freedoms.

bo is the worst president this nation has ever had, even worse than his idol jimmy carter. All of you who voted for and support bo have done a great damage to freedom, both economically and civil. You voted for a hyped fabricated image who in reality is a power hungry egomaniac radical....when will you own up to your mistake ?????

the homeschool alternative


Academic Performance--

* The home-educated typically score 15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests.

* Homeschool students score above average on achievement tests regardless of their parents’ level of formal education or their family’s household income.

* Whether homeschool parents were ever certified teachers is not related to their children’s academic achievement.

* Degree of state control and regulation of homeschooling is not related to academic achievement.

* Home-educated students typically score above average on the SAT and ACT tests that colleges consider for admissions.

* Homeschool students are increasingly being actively recruited by colleges.

Social, Emotional, and Psychological Development

* The home-educated are doing well, typically above average, on measures of social, emotional, and psychological development. Research measures include peer interaction, self-concept, leadership skills, family cohesion, participation in community service, and self-esteem.

* Homeschool students are regularly engaged in social and educational activities outside their homes and with people other than their nuclear-family members. They are commonly involved in activities such as field trips, scouting, 4-H, political drives, church ministry, sports teams, and community volunteer work

http://www.nheri.org/Research-Facts-on-Homeschooling.html
http://www.nheri.org/

Another Ignorant, Manipulative Leftist
lilly
Location: IL Reply #57
Is another perfect example of the leftist, lying, manipulative, intellectually dishonest leftist liberal who create hate and wars in the world while pretending to be peace lovers ! What a PHONY. To pick one post from townhall that is very crude which of course the leftist will argue that is "racist," one of their favorite MANIPULATING words while ignoring all the other intelligent posts is just another of the dishonest tactics of the left and "lilly" gladly uses it without any regards for her intellectuall honesty, a typical leftist fakeacrats.
The left's propaganda brain washing machine has made any mention of a monkey or a gorrilla to be a "racist" statement towards our fellow human beings with dark pigmentation, why ? for their convenience to manipulate and control. I know many white pigmentation humans who resemble monkeys and gorrillas. michelle obama has bad posture and her arms do sort of hang. bo has curious george ears, Bush has monkey ears, so what. I rather not criticize physical appearances because we have no control over that. the leftist fakeacrats such as david axelrod aka aselhole, joked that one of the names for the president's dog included Miss California. This is aselholes attempt to appease his homosexual/heterphobic buddies, yet noone in the media criticized this heterphobic, genderphobic preudice comment.
The leftist fakeacrats have a MONOPOLY on LYING and MANIPULATION, they are so used to it and so deep in it that they do not recognize TRUTH and HONESTY, only furthering of their LIES. All while destroying our country and our world one lie at a time !

more about homeschooling

Someone mentioned the success of homeschooling...

The NEA opposes homeschooling, as well as vouchers for private school, partly because they make the underwhelming results of public schools, at GREAT taxpayer expense, so glaring.

The typical homeschooler makes above average on standardized tests, whereas publicly schooled scores have generally eroded since the 60's. We spend $10k+ per capita on public schooling for too often underwhelming results... and there is NO correlation between the magnitude of spending and measured results.

Notwithstanding fatuous suggestions that homeschoolers will lack social skills, quite the contrary, they actually excel in team player interpersonal relations, and tend toward leadership positions when they go to college or segue to "regular school." Actually, homeschoolers participate in many group activities among themselves and others.

The NEA likes to challenge the qualifications of homeschool parent teachers, but the relative results make that challenge silly and presumptuous prima facie. Parents teaching their children, by definition, have exemplary dedication to their welfare... and their relative success is a res ipsa loquitur (speaks for itself).

Why not give homeschool parents at least a tax credit, since they are saving considerable $ and helping to minimize alleged overcrowding?

Sullivan's anger toward Obama
is very informative. It is an example of how homosexuals will never be satisfied. All of the crap that Obama decreed when introducing a national homosexual month means nothing to Sullivan. He has to have more and he is angry.

Sullivan is representative of leftists in that they too are never satified and they are perpetually angry. For some reason they seem compelled to control. They want to control every aspect of every person's life. When they achieve a goal that further forces their notions on Americans they immediately discover something else that people are doing that must be changed or controlled.

For one, I am tired of them. Their anger probably has more to do with some flaw inside of them. America is in turmoil because of them. They are a threat to the nation.




Black conservative who's making WAVES!
Be sure to check out this black conservative writer's new book and his blog, FUNNIEST on the net! http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com/2009/06/big-black-lie-i s-finished.html You will find his blogs hysterical, and the buzz on the book is "best seller!"

Skip
Would you be satisfied if it were your rights that were being limited?

Dave
So if you find interracial marrage offensive it should be illegal as well.

JMO51
I never said it should be illegal. I just said it was offensive. It's unnatural and I don't want to see it. No more than I want to watch acts of beastiality or cannabilism. Just like homos, these people need mental help.

True Marriage is between a Man and a
Woman.
That is so simple to understand that even most radical leftist can do it, yet, they, as usual, ignore the TRUTH !

Nature itself tells us that a man and a woman complete each other. Even those that leave God out of it have to concede that a man and a woman joint together form a natural union not only to create but also to fulfill each other spiritually. Is so obvious but leave it to crooked lawyers and sexually perverted "human" beings to make money off it and corrupt it.

The lying homo/heterphobics prey on the easily persuaded young about "hospital rights" for homo/heterphobic pairs, something that is easily achieved by legal process.

With the increase in homo/heterphobic monetary influence and the decline of moral values amongst the governmnet officials this perverted attack on marriage has been undertaken. This lying propaganda about "civil rights" is just another manipulation of the left fueled by the perverted $$$.

Go set up your homosexual/heterphobic centers call them "homo centers" and go have your joint union ceremonies, then go through the legal system and write up the proper paperwork so that you can pretend to be like normal traditional married couples. Each state should issue a "civil union" card to these pairs and the pairs can have rights as such. The male ? pairs will have to pay taxes as single males because they have more earning power. The female pairs can be taxed less. The pairs will also have to take the last name of one or the other or combine both last names. Hospital problem solved ! The pairs can continue to "love" each other and have $$$ and the emotional security that their pair partner will have full rights to know about them and more !
It won't change the fact that homosexuality is a perversion (nothing will), so it won't stop the attack on True Marriage in the attempt to normalize the abnormal perversion of homosexuality! which is all this is.



Dave
Personally I don't want to watch anyone having sex. Sex in public is illegal. But gays marrying is another thing. You are OK with them marrying, but no public sex.

And what makes you an expert on mental health?

Phony As A Three Dollar Bill
The gay marriage debtate is NOT about civil rights. It is about getting in on the benefits that government gave to married people that it did not give to anyone else. Marriage is simply a contract between two people to try to live together for the rest of their life. You do not need anyone, but the two people involved to make that committment. And government has not said that same sex couples cannot make that committment.

JMO51
I'm glad we agree. Now if we can just get the homos at Turner Field to agree and not kiss and fondel each other in front of my children.
What makes me an expert on mental health? Nothing. What makes you qualified to say my opinions are wrong? I'm just stating my opinion and you can't stand my excercise of free speech. Your first response was to label me a racist. That's the typical response from a lib when the don't agree with someones free speech. As far as gay marriage, let the voters decide. But libs only like democracy when it supports their agenda. You're dismissed now.

Sure, Dave

"Now if we can just get the homos at Turner Field to agree and not kiss and fondel (sic) each other in front of my children."

Right after you get all straight couples not to kiss and fondle at Turner Field, on the streets, or indeed in any other public place.

Ugh!

sedonman

I read the article, and I couldn't find anything remotely objectionable.

What's wrong with this statement, for example? “The Catholic Church has happily allied itself with just about every totalitarian regime that has emerged over the centuries in Europe.”

Or this: “It’s time for the Catholic Church – and all the other religious bodies that seek to impose their will on democratic governments – to be firmly put in their place.”

And how can you possibly disagree with this: "The Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association (GALHA) has issued a press release saying that the Catholic Church is “not fit” to run schools." Look up the goings on in Ireland!

So tell me, sedonaman, what is it in this article that is objectionable? Please be specific.

Civil Rights Issue
Why are tuition vouchers for undeperforming public school students considered a "civil rights issue"?

It should just be considered another hand out to minorities.

The Hypocrisy
Isn't it just so Democratic that the two politicians named in the article, BH Obama and Hillary Clinton, who are working so hard for gay rights and public school unions deny publicly their own homosexuality and send/sent their children to private schools?

Can You Say Cloward-Piven In Russian?


15 Things That You Must Know About ObamaCare.

READ IT NOW.

And, call your representatives.

Taxes up. The government will ration care and deny services like MRIs and CTs. Behavior will be dictated (smoking, drinking, diet, exercise, etc.). You will be paying for unions. Poverty coverage will be expanded by 150%. The working poor (150-500%) will be subsidized. You will pay for legal aliens.

If you have health insurance, you will be offsetting illegal healthcare, paying higher healthcare taxes, and higher health insurance premiums.

All to bring about a single-payer system.

Read more of this nightmare here:

http://keithhennessey.com/2009/06/08/kennedy-health-bill/



Mikhail Gorbachev, the man that destroyed the Soviet Union, is now offering to advise Obama.

How do you say Cloward-Piven in Russian?

explain, please

Tell us who cares what gay/les /humanists say? A statement. Stick it where the sun never shines;

As for the Church. Cry as much as you like; you'll never have authority to give anybody opinions about the Catholic Church. You're one hand clapping; no authority in any way, shape or form. You'll NEVER have any say about the Church, good or bad.

Star Parker: Liar

I saw the interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXkf2xaXhGA

To describe Andrew as "incensed" is just an out-and-out lie. Andrew is clearly in the camp of "wait and see." Anderson Cooper is far more incensed.

But thank you, Star, you lying b!tch, for pointing me to the interview. VERY funny to see an out