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Monday, December 01, 2008
Star Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Formula for GOP recovery: traditional values PLUS limited government
by Star Parker
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Now that Democrats have won the White House and have widened their margin of control in Congress, does this signify that American voters have moved to the left?

Many Republicans question this claim. And a new report from the Pew Research Center seems to verify that America is still a right of center as a country. But the picture gets murky when you look at the details. And this murkiness presents a considerable challenge for Republicans who are trying to figure out where to steer their party.

According to the just published report, more Americans today call themselves conservative than liberal, and the relative percentages in each category has hardly changed since George W. Bush was elected to his first term in 2000.

Thirty eight percent of Americans self-identify as conservative, 21 percent as liberal, and 36 percent as moderate. This compares to 36 percent, 18 percent and 38 percent, respectively, in 2000.

But taking a closer look at what this means leaves you scratching your head. You have to wonder what it means today to think of yourself as conservative.

When asked if the Bush tax cuts should be made permanent, only 38 percent of those who said they are "conservative" said yes. And 50 percent of "conservatives" said they favor government guaranteeing health care "even if it means raising taxes."

Although 71 percent of "conservatives" said they oppose gay marriage, only slightly more than half, 52 percent, said that abortion should be illegal.

Many Republicans point to the fact that traditional marriage initiatives won in all three states where they were on the ballot -- California, Florida, and Arizona -- as evidence for the conservatism of the country. But pro-life initiatives lost in all three states where they were on ballots -- California, South Dakota, and Colorado.

What can be the message here for those vying for leadership of the Republican Party?

Some argue that the party should lighten up on the social agenda. The party is all white, they say, and there is no future without Latinos and blacks.

But consider the obvious. First, conservatives define the Republican Party. According to this study, 68 percent of Republicans call themselves conservative.

Second, it should be obvious from the above, that if conservatives are rooted anywhere, it's more in the social agenda than in the fiscal and limited government agenda. Where in the world would the party be if the leadership tried to uproot from social conservatism?

Third, consider what is going on with blacks and Latinos.

In this same Pew survey, 25 percent of all Democrats called themselves conservatives. But among these same Democrats, 35 percent of blacks call themselves conservative compared to 21 percent of whites.

Why? Blacks are social conservatives. Blacks understand the havoc that moral relativism has caused in their communities. And, this is also the case with Latinos.

As was widely reported, blacks and Latinos voted for Proposition 8 in California, supporting traditional marriage, despite the majority of them also voting for President-elect Barack Obama.

So where is the logic in Republicans abandoning social conservatism in order to reach blacks and Latinos?

It appears that the message getting lost is the importance of limited government and fiscal conservatism.

Health care is almost 20 percent of our national economy. Too many are not getting what it will mean when bureaucrats will define what health care is and when the IRS comes knocking to check on the policy you bought. Too many seem to have forgotten that prosperity is created by individual freedom and creativity and not government programs.

These are tough times and families are under duress. Perhaps it's tempting to think that opening the door to more government is a good idea. Particularly in an environment where every day another half trillion-dollar check is being cut in Washington for bailout programs.

When most Americans say they are conservative, they mean it. Too many, however, are forgetting that this means limited government as well as traditional values. We need new, energetic Republican leaders to get this message across.

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About The Author
Star Parker is the founder and president of CURE, the Coalition for Urban Renewal & Education, a 501c3 think tank which explores and promotes market based public policy to fight poverty, as well as author of White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner City Decay.
 
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A liberal's view

As a liberal, I think the republicans should more from the far right back toward the middle. When I grew up in the 60's, although republicans were primarily conservative, there were still a good number of moderates and even liberals. Today the party has moved so far to the right wing that it hardly has any moderates. The republicans have moved so far to the right that they can no longer represent regular Americans. The Bush administration was nearly fascist in its extremism.

Also, the republicans need to do something about their historic and continuing allegiance to the rich. They can hypocritically call the democrats "elitists", but it has been the democrats who have fought for the middle and lower class people, while the republicans have always favored the rich. People are not that stupid and they will soon find out that the republicans are not on their side (especially after seeing the results of the current depression).

Similarly, the republicans need to do something about their mean-spirited social policies. For the last 30 years a number of Christians have been suckered into the conservative camp, but again, these people are not that stupid and will soon realize that it is the democrats who best represent Christian values.

So in my view the republicans are progressively painting themselves into a corner. Their Orwellian logic just won't hold up (war is good; welfare is bad; science is bad, etc). and the public will not buy it much longer.


A liberal's view
Dr. Douglas lived in the 60's but never grew up. Check your history doc and while your at it check the IRS and see how much the so called rich pay in taxes. there are about 43% of the population that pay ZERO taxes and to use your saying, "People are not that stupid"

A Liberal's View
That the "Democrat's best represent Christian values" strikes me as rather bizarre. The only consistent platform that they support is "Abortion on demand". Think about what has happened to us since Roe v Wade. It would be a real stretch to think that disrespect for the most vulnerable of us is a Christian value.

Review the "Values Plank"

I think that every party member should review the "Values" plank of the 2008 Platform. Just read it over and decide if this is the tone that we want to set. It is certainly the plank that the MSM and DNC have pried up to hammer us with. If we want to widen our appeal, we need to start here, IMHO.

http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/Values.htm

traditional values most voters agree on
i do agree with jones in this article.most americans do believe in traditional values, morals, religion. the republicans hasnt or doesnt know how to present this message in a positive way instead they come off like a bunch of haters. most americans including hispanics dont believe illegals should be given a free ride into this country they didnt they had to stand in line and earn that right but the republicans cant seem to put the positive message out to the people of why this is wrong,especially when you have the dems and msm calling us racists and haters.most americans are christians but the repubs sound like zealous nuts instead of positive message on morals and values and thru setting examples . we have had our share of repub scandals. we have no credibility with the american people as a party bush hasnt closed our borders although he says beware of terrorists, mccain was for ammnesty but he couldnt get the majority of the latino vote. the american people didnt believe anything that was reported negative on obama, wright, ayers,resko,farraken,spread the wealth,change, yes we can,lack of experience doent matter etc etc.why? not just because msm and dems but because american people didnt believe us. american people want to believe in america and how great she is and can be that is why they chose to believe obama with the help of msm. we knew the truth , it was all campaign talk and he couldnt do what he said but the american people want to believe. they are tired of the same old politicians because they want to believe in something and somebody repub party has to gain credibility back.

It's about ideology
For pete's sake, is it about the Republican party or is it about ideology? If the country isn't for less government, then the Republicans lose. Period. Or just admit the Republican Party has become liberal.

I agree Charlotte

We need to be known as a party of tolerance, not division. "Haters" is exactly how we are perceived. We need to tone down the social rhetoric. If we stand for freedom, we must tolerate other lifestyles and beliefs. Tolerate does not mean embrace, but it does mean respect.

The 'church lady' stereotype is stuck to us right now, we need to shake it!

repubs values
i do believe most americans that are christians believe abortions are wrong, there are groups that use the issue for political gain, most christians believe in morals, values, do what best for our country but again groups turn these issues into us against them and the true message is lost. that is why Ronald Reagan was able to get those voters, he knew how to explain to the people and communicate his message positively to the american people, they understood him and believed him.

abortion
mabe the average person isnt bothered by abortion as much as you.

Liberal friend
I have a very liberal friend who believes conservatism is based almost solely on social issues rather than economic issues. She may not be correct, but that is the perception.

The GOP must be a party of economic conservatism. Boehner and Cantor attempted to limit pork barrel spending among the GOP, but a good number of them balked, according to a recent article online. When will the Republicans wake up and become the party of fiscal wisdom? the Dems surely won't.

Dr. Douglas (reply #2)
I'm not sure of tne new definition of "rich", but my husband is a doctor (MD), self-employed, solo practitioner in a small town. Compared to many of our neighbors, we are rich, but there are few tax breaks for us. Economic stimulus check? Nada. But my lazy brother, who chooses not to work, and is on every welfare roll that exists, got his check, and bought an above-ground pool for his 3 kids. Of course, he still can't buy groceries 'til his monthly check comes from the govt., but no matter. We have surely stimulated the economy. Maybe the pool salesman is more fiscally prudent than my brother and will SAVE his check...now that's a jump start for the economy! We, however, are overqualified economically, and get neither check nor tax break. It hurts to see money roll into your account, and know that you are going to have to pay almost half of it back in taxes the next week. To ice the cake, Mr. Obama is proposing to increase our taxes. I have a small retail gift business, and taxes have kept me from getting paid about 1/2 of the 10 years I have been open. Yet if I close, 6 people will be out of work. A tax increase is supposed to help this? I am a small business, but my revenues are close to $500k annually. What about that tax increase for people making over $250k? When my husband and I see our taxes rise higher, we will have no choice but to cut payroll in both of our businesses. This puts more people in the unemployed sector. How does this help the economy? I prefer to spread my own wealth. The taxes under the Repubs are bad enough. Don't talk to me about how the Dems are going to make it better by hiking taxes more on my small business. I didn't get a paycheck in all of '08. Who do you think is hiring all these "middle class" people? The rest of us "rich" middle class people who are about to have our taxes raised by the Dems so they can buy more votes.

maybe it's the presentation
What if, instead of building a platform about being anti-abortion, we built a platform that said we were pro-human life, from conception to natural death. We would sell the value of carrying babies to term, rather than eliminating them because they are incovenient -- instead, we would count children as a blessing and our future.We would say what we mean when we talk about choice -- choosing life instead of death for our unborn children, allowing parents to choose effective schools rather than the money sucking cesspools of the public school system. We would talk about responsibility: to our children, to our selves, for our behavior. We would talk about promoting palliative care, hospices and pain management as end of life issues. We would talk about human life being priority one -- not saving species of animals and plants for the sake of saving them at the cost of jobs and communities. We would talk about taking away property rights without compensation is theft, not environmentalism. We would talk about the traditional family, mother, father and children as the foundation of society -- and that mom and dad are important to raising children -- and two dads or two moms can try but can not replace mom and dad.

Becky, Catdude, Charlotte
Good post Becky. Charlotte, you say some good things, but I wish you would make yourself easier to read. I think the perception that the "right" consists mainly of haters is not necessarily the fault of the right as much as it is the fault of an unfriendly media. They paint us however they want. We can have the best of attitudes and hope (and we have no choice, there) but it won't always counter what is printed. Conservative is a big word, it does include the social as well as the fiscal. Libertarians are fiscally conservative but socially liberal. Populists are fiscally liberal (sharing the wealth) and socially conservative. It is a complicated picture. I am socially (pro-life) and fiscally (small government/free market/free trade) conservative. It just makes so much more sense!

Communication
The lack of communication by George Bush and his administration has been a prime factor in leading us to this democrat controlled government. There have been so many times when an explanation of WHY we must do this, what we found, what would have happenned if we did not act and just recently, the role the democrats in control of Banking and Finance had in causing this present fiasco.
Notice the media's reporting of the 550 tonnes of high grade yellow cake uranium that was secretly removed from Iraq to Canada? No you didn't, because you might have approved of something else Bush has done to protect America, something the lame-stream media could not allow to happen. Just one more instance of the "no WMD's in Iraq" media cover-up.

Bush has done more than we may ever know to protect the USA, perhaps history will reflect his success, tenacity and perseverance in "Job 1", protect America from terrorists.
For damn sure the media will not. But they will cover up for Obama and his shady past. We can only hope that Obama will change his mind on most of the issues he campaigned against.
Once you get the unreported facts and alternatives explained to you, the more Bush's policies become Obama's "change" of mind.

charlotte from Fl

I agree. Most americans do believe abortion is wrong. It is the killing of innocent human life.

However, Many of us also believe that for some unborn babies, it may be better to be aborted than to be born to crack using Liberal mother.

Both parties have traditional values
It's true, there are Conservatives in the Democrat party, but they do not screw things up for the Democrats months before an election the same way the Conservatives do in the Republican party. With the Conservatives in the Democrat party it's party first. No so with the Conservatives in the Republican party, it's me, me, me, first. Do it my way or else. With so many me, me, me, first like we saw in this last election with Operation Chaos, to other talk show host with their own personal agendas, no one was on the same page with McCain. When Obama won the nomination, it was hard to tell if McCain was going to run his own campaign or follow the lead of those who had laid the ground work for McCain to follow in their methods of attacks on Obama which were proved to be a flawed strategy labeling Obama a Marxist, closet Muslim, Manchurian candidate, and anti American. We have two major parties, the Democrats and the Republicans. The Conservatives in both parties must not screw things up for their party in elections with threats and crossover votes. Traditional values will always follow, they don't have to be forced down any one's throat.

economy, social values and conservative
Blacks, Latinos and Whites are all having same values and approaches. The diffrences in outlook on economy are defined mostly by the diffrences in income and wealth. Social and religious values differ from familily to family. A political party should teach their program and educate about economic reality in order to stop or advance certain trends. Just following moods and naive patterns of reasoning leads nowhere.

What is in a label
People are tred of the labels being thrown around. Government is not working because of these two divisions right and left. People are tired of this and want leaders who can work on problems.

One big problem the Republians have is they want their valued forced on everyone else. And when you don't join them ayou are labelled as some kind od evil. How many times have you heard a "conservative" Republian say that a moderate Republian is not a Rebublian.

End Drug Prohibition
The conservative position is to end radical experiments that have failed.

Or we can wait for the war with Mexico to escalate as the narcos take control of that government.

A conservative's view
A party that favors amassing and use government power to dictate one group's vallues to the rest of the country can hardly be considered conservative. A generation of young voters who themselves grew up in and around divorced heterosexual homes know that gays and lesbians are not to blame for our generation's failures.
The RNC has apologized to the NAACP for Nixon's southern strategy (that scared southern white racists into breaking their traditional ties to the democrat party) when the we needed the black vote. Who is going to apologize to the gay and lesbian community and the majority of Americans, especially young Americans, who could care less what sorts of civil or spiritual covenants their neighbors make?
Americans are looking for answers to real problems they face every day: health care, schools, islamic fundamentalism, fear of global warming, a weak economy etc.
How can anyone take seriously a challenge to global warming orthodoxy from an organization that places creationism on equal footing with evolution or expends enormous energy looking for bogey men in and under fellow American's beds? This is not a substitute for intelligent policy. It is mean and stupid and that is how we increasingly define ourselves.
We deserved to loose this election and, sadly, the country is worse off for it.

Here's my poll:

10% of the population is smart. (Shrinking)

38% of the population is half-smart. (Shrinking)

52% of the population is stupid. (Expanding)

Is it any wonder the democrats won?

Star is the Good Parker
Unfortunately she misses one simple fact: McCain ran away from the social conservatives AND only lightly flirted with the fiscal conservatives. (Frankly I'm with Rush Limbaugh when he says, "You can't split conservativism into two halves. It's all or nothing." But I digress.) Until we get a candidate (Like Palin or Jindal) who will run on both legs of conservatisim we will continue to lose elections.

Amen
Conservatism works. We have to demand that RINOs start acting as Reagan Conservatives.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/we-demand-true-conserva tive-leadership.html

Competence over ideology
People above all else want competent government. McCain lost because in a clunch he looked incompetent and Sara Palin looked unready because she was plucked out of Alaska not ready for prime time.

Republicans in congress lost because they were in power for all these years and made a mess of things. Far Right stuff about Obama being a muslim, communist hurt McCain with more intellident and reasonable moderates and conservatives who defected.

The conservative movement is long on demegoges but short competent leaders. The Democratic Party has become center- left and the Republican Party what is left of it has become far to the right.

Consider this there is not a single Republican member of Congress from all of New England except Olympia Snow. Virginia is now a blue state and Indiana is a swing state.

If the Republicans are to become a winning party again they must become a big tent party and that means accepting people who believe in a women's right to choose and in Gay's Right to Marrage. Lower taxes and limited government should ne the mantra not gay marrage and creationism.

Voters are not stupid
but they are terribly uninformed and are attracted to the superficial, namely, appearance, charisma, empty promises and give aways. Voters are not the self sufficient citizens of the past. It is no longer"ask not what the government can do, ask what you can do for the government.

It appears republicans are going to have to play this the same way as the democrats. Find a candidate who is physically appealing, glib and full of promises. In a compelling manner, tell voters what they want to hear then when elected, govern in a resonsible, capitalistic manner which produces conditions which are good for anyone to make it.

Ho hum
If the best the Repubs can come up with is a worked over message about taditional values and limited government, it will be a very long time before they become a majority party again. The days of paying lip service to limited government while doing nothing to achieve it are over. Besides, how do the Repubs expect to get elected by promising to reign in government services. They fooled most of the people for a long time with their phony promise to reduce the size of government, but now that our economy is in the tank thanks to GW, et. al., that tune isn't going to anymore. But keep trying all you diehard Eepubs. I'm sure there are plenty of saps out there who'll believe anything.

It's the Action, not the Word.
First, Conservatives "do not" define the Republican party. Calling oneself Conservative because it is currently a term preferred to the word Liberal, does not mean that one "is" a conservative. This is the single greatest misconcpetion presented in this article. The pollster and the author would have done better to first define "conservative", and to then have run a poll based on those definitions. All that has been demonstrated is that in the beauty contest between the two words, "Conservative" and "Liberal", Conservative is the most popular.

The proof of this is not in what people say, but in what they do. Those in Congress that systematically support the core definition of Conservative thought represent less than 1/4 of the two houses. Further, neither party has nominated a presidential candidate since Reagan that represents those values.

Bush's "compassionate conservatism" was not in any meaningful way, conservative. Yet it did thoroughly confuse the definition.

In the end, people voted for Bush, and then voted for Obama. Neither were conservatives.

This does not, as a result, demonstrate that a majority of the public actually practices the core tenets of conservative thought. And, the bottom line is, that it's what people do that counts, not what they say.

And they do not vote as conservatives. By action, therefore, this is not a "center-right" country. It only thinks of itself that way.

Why Conservatives lost
1. The media hammered Bush's every move daily.
2. ABC,NBC,CBS,CNN, election coverage Obama "Good"...McCain "Bad"
3. George Bush poor communicator
4. George Bush failed to stand up to Democrats and cut run a way spending.
5. Parents and grandparents raised in the 60s lost their way spiritually, and politically. Passed down to the children.
6. Far too many Obama supporters did not have a clue why they voted for him, or what he stands for.
7. Conservative message lost in a nation at war, greed, and move away from its foundation based on God, and freedom.

Social Conservatives
Limited Goverment- That is the kind of conservatism that appeals to many in the party.

Limited Gov't means not intruding on private family matters like Terry Schiavo. Not putting into the decisions between a doctor and her patient, and not interferring in the decisions of others (Gay Marrage). This kind of conservative is now an independent or Democrat. Their own party has kicked them out because that party is not conservative at all it is radical and retro and all about government in our lives to protect the status quo it is anti freedom and to more liberaian conservatives it is frankly offensive.

Conservatives used to believe that government should stay out of our lives, but social conservatives are all about creating a theocracy. About government tell us how to live how to love what to watch in TV or in the movies and ultimately what to believe.

Social Conservatism taken to an extreme is a cancer. What seperates a chistian extemist from a muslim extremust. Libertarians who fight back.

Dr Douglas
"... soon realize that it is the democrats who best represent Christian values."

You've got to be kidding. The truth is that Democrats, by their support for the slaughter of innocent children all the way through pregnancy and even after birth, their support for the obscenity of gay "marriage", for massive government programs, for punitive taxation, etc.... best represent Satan's agenda.

A liberal "Christian" is an oxymoron.

As to you, jim from FL, maybe people like yourself form opinions on issues they have never bothered to actually investigate.

And maybe that's why you keep voting Democrat.


Califson is right
Lets face it. Once you lose the culture you lose the conservative movement. People who are lost morally and spiritually cannot manage their own lives, thus their desire for a nanny state. How else can you explain this "messiah complex" surrounding Obama's brain dead supporters?

God save us all, and I'm moving to Idaho!

jeffjenn
You're right about one thing. There ARE plenty of saps out there who will believe anything.

Look how many of them just voted for Obama!

As to the economy being George Bush's fault, that dog won' hunt. We had excellent growth for about six years of Bush's presidency, and low unemployment, too. The housing/lending fiasco was the fault of liberal Democrats like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. It is true that Bush is to blame for agreeing with Democrats too often, by spending too much, but his tax cuts have been helpful to all of us, and it makes no sense to blame him for everything.

Republicans vs The Rest
All the trend polls are wrong because people tend to caveat and questions are incomplete. Consider abortion: Only 52% said abortion should be illegal. If the question had been should abortion be illegal, if it is funded by your tax dollars, the answer would be far different. The position being , philosophically I don't care or, I think that is the involved person's decision, BUT I do not want to pay my good dollars to fund her stupidity. The 52% answers the philosophical but not the practical portion of the delemma. The Moderate 36/38 % given for the 2 polls comports with what has been a historical trend for "fence sitters". During the Revolutionary War (for those of you who are Liberal Obama supporters that is our war for independence from England) roughly 1/3 favored independence, 1/3 wanted to remain loyal to England and 1/3 were indecisive (Moderate).It was not until the British colonial mandate forced the middle to decide on a position that independence became the majority position. Generally, there are people who select a noncombative middle position to avoid controversy and confrontation. These people untimately side with the less stressful position on them personally and avoid idealisms they do not understand or view as benign to their lives. Their passion stops at their front door.

Democrat hypocrisy
I am forever hearing the whining of liberal democrats about separation of church and state. They consistently complain about the level of influence Christians wish to "impose" on everyone via legislating morality.

Then, we have to listen to the likes of Dr Douglas from the progressive land of Oregon tell us how Democrats best represent Christian values. HUH?

First, as noted by a previous poster, on the issue of the sanctity of life, Democrats fall flat. Of course, I have altered my stance on capital punishment because I have the firm belief that ALL life has value. Even if that value comes only in the form of how we treat those that don't deserve to live.

Just as important, though, is coerced "goodness". Living the Christian life is a CHOICE I make of my own volition through the free will God has granted me. Democrats wish to usurp God's authority and make everyone be as good as they think people should be. The do this by taking, through force of law, people's income and distributing to who THEY think the "least of these" are. No choice. No free will. No selfless acts to do what is right. Only the strong arm of Democrat law making you do what they think you should do.

My faith is a personal one that calls for personal sacrifices. Daily choosing to give up what I want for what God wants for me. If I'm honest with myself, which, sometimes I'm not, I have to admit that God wants for my is ultimately far better and will bring greater joy and satisfaction, than anything I could desire for myself.

I'm disillusioned with the direction of the Republican party. But I'm not so delusional that I'll buy what the Democrats are selling.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Satans Agenda?
Annfan, I'm not sure stating that Democrats and Liberals are guilty of following Satans agenda is going to help expand the base of the Republican Party. However, what ever floats your boat.....

Gee, Conservative Libertarianism
Or strict Constitutionalism. Who'd a thunk that would be a good idea? Oh, that's right, the people in the Republican Party that were patently ignored over the last two years. Why does being right and being ignored go hand in hand? Probably because there's no power or money in doing the right thing.

CONSERVATIVES IGNORED
DO NOT BLAME IT ON GEOGE W. BUSH, NOR THE WAR IN IRAQ, NOR THE ECONOMY, NOT EVEN THE BAILOUTS.
YOU CAN NOT LOOK TO THE PROMISE OF MORE STIMULUS
CHECKS AND EVEN MORE BAILOUTS AS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, IT IS SIMPLE CONSERVATIVE HAVE BEEN TAKEN FOR GRANTED WAY TO LONG. WHY WAS AN ELECTION WITH MODERATE WOMAN VOTERS IN UNPRECEDENT NUMBERS CROSSOVER TO VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA THAT THE MARGIN OF VICTORY ABOUT 4%. THE CONSERVATIVE BASE JUST SKIPPED THE TOP OF THE BALLOT, THEY WENT TO THE POLLS VOTED IN ALL CONTEST BUT THE PRESIDENCY OR JUST STAID HOME.

Secret Message
To h*** with the polls. Americans want competent and intelligent and efficient limited government. Republicans must learn how to govern wisely not merely to be democrat lite.
By being democrat lite, Republicans have ended up making more errors than the democrats.

thanks Star
I like your points on Latinos and African Americans potentially being won over to the GOP by a conservative social vision.
Also, the GOP shouldn't give up its white base becaseu the majority of voters are white. Instead let's go back to the ideal of integration and mainstreaming.
It is really just a coincidence that the US was founded by Europeans...it isn't a bad thing...it's just how it happened. By looking for the best ideals to build on and being proud of those ideals we become good role models that others will follow. For example, making money by our own ideas and work--this is our strong point.
Liberals' weak point is their inability to describe crime if it involves political incorrectness, yet in some cases it is Latinos and African American kids who end up not living in safe neighborhoods.

Why Republicans lost.
Think back to the year 2000 presidential compaign. G.W. Bush campaigned for smaller and more limited government, lower taxes, returning power and money to the states where it can best be spent, no foreign wars or foreign intervention, no nation building, eliminating federal beauracies, fiscal responsibility, etc. Now look at his 8 years of governance, 6 of which included a Republican controlled House and Senate. No president in our nations history has ever presided over such an expansive growth in the size, power, and cost of the federal government. Two wars that were entered into and managed in the most incompetant manner, wars which we should never have started. Blustery and bullying foreign policy that has enraged the world against America. Exploding national debt resulting from uncontrolled federal government spending. And much more.

Has anyone out there ever in their lifetime experienced a period of governance so contrary to what was promised in order to secure the election? I have not. That is why Republicans lost. Not because they governed as conservatives but because G.W. Bush and the Republicans in Congress governed exactly opposite of what is expected of consdervatives.

I'm sorry Star......
but mere man will not solve our nations problems, as long as we think that we can fix the problems by our own efforts. The conservatives have to lead the way back to putting God FIRST! The country has lost it's soul! We don't need God. We don't even believe in HIM. It's called PRIDE!! "Non Serviam"
Does anybody out there concur??? Is there still a "small remnant" who actually believe in, and not just rhetorically, the Ten Commandments and the True Gospel message of His Son, Jesus Christ? By the grace of the Holy Spirit you need to come out of the "woodwork" and be ALIVE.
May God have Mercy on us all!!!

The late great USA!
Our Forefathers wanted small government because they were confident that they could make a better life for themselves and their families. Their definition of conservative included fiscal as well as social. Their knowledge came from the school of hard knocks as well as the Bible and the masters of literature and philosophy.

The people who live in the USA today have lost confidence in their ability to make a better life for themselves. They see a financial world that appears balanced on a knife edge and teetering ready to fall. Their definition of conservative is to maintain what they know, which is not arrived at by studying our Forefather or the masters of literature. The modern person is lazy and takes the easy way out by listening to TV, radio or read MSM content found in any number of newspapers or magazines. Few people actually dig into information to find what the truth might be.

This past election is proof that America is deeply troubled and divided. The country is torn between Socialism and Capitalism but it does not understand the dangers inherent in the isms. The country wants change but doesn't agree on what that change should be. The country wants hope but may not find much hope in the Obama administration.

I liked what Redlac said that pollsters should have defined conservative before conducting the poll. Absolutely! The fact that they didn't means they wanted a superficial poll that sounded good but was not truly representative of what Americans really feel. It seems Obama fits that model very well. He sounds good but doesn't really represent the bulk of America.

Our country is lost unless it reconnects to the Constitution. Conservative must mean to adhere to the Constitution that defined limited government and made manifest the rights of the people over the power of government. Unless we return to a Constitutional form of governance our country will fade from the pages of history.

Gay Conservative @7:02
AMEN!

On issues WRT to the safety and security of the United States, I'm against unilateral disarmament. However, WRT to economics, I believe that conservatives MUST lead by unilaterally disarming themselves by cutting out earmarks. We, economic conservatives that is, MUST walk the talk if we wish to have any influence at all. This is the area I believe Bush and Co. failed the most.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

JMO51
You hit the nail on the head buddy and that's why the GOP is received the way it is today. We need to get back to traditional values of limited government instead of looking like a bunch of religious zealots! Remember we do not have to embrace what people stand for but if we support limited government we shouldn't impose our views on them!

Conservatives
We can be Republicans without being conservatives. I feel the Republican party would be much more effective if we paid less attention to the "moderate" Republicans and more to the traditional ones.It is more rare to be a conservative Democrat. Not many of those. I was sad to hear that Obama wants to circumvent the constitution. The Democrats crossed over to literally force us to have to vote for McCain. Several of the other would-bes would have been a better choice. They will probably do it again next election since it worked so well this time. If we din`t realize this, we will lose even more.

AMEN STAR!
The GOP has to:
1. Get Younger!
2. Get Communicative!
3. Practice what they preach!
4. Hold Liberal Feet to the fire WHEN they screw up. Moral Relativism GUARANTEES that they WILL SCREW UP!
5. Play as a team, Conservatives splitting votes among candidates GAVE McCain the nomination. LESS ego, MORE cooperation!

If they do this, they will draw folks to them like moths to a flame.

Great article
We should not compromise our social values to win votes. The democrats do that. We need to work on perfecting our policy agenda.

Hawkeye
What percentage of the vote did ACORN Hussein Obama get?

Coincidence :)?

Maverick makes a good point
Read the posts here. Many of those promoting the conservative social agenda are fixated on what others do, and why their failure to adopt the conservative social agenda is a sign of their moral bankruptcy.

It is yet another example of the right's apparent determination to marginalize themselves into an electoral corner while the Dems are intent on expanding their coalition.

I believe these social conservatives would do well to use their agenda as a personal moral compass rather than a bludgeon with which to attack those who do not adopt their agenda.

As much as the right invokes Reagan, the reality is that Reagan rhetoric of the Shining City on the Hill and Morning in America was an appeal to the better angels of our nature rather than a characterization of those who do not share his values as morally bankrupt.


CONSERVATIVES ELECTED OBAMA

.....Post election analysis reveals that 20% of voters who describe themselves as conservative, regardless of Party affiliation, voted for Obama ...

.....This blows the theory that Conservatism has taken a hit ...what it indicates is that many conservatives have become disenchanted with the Republican Party and voted for a change .....COLOSSUS

JMO5-
Screw you, lefty plant.
Your fondest wish is that the republican party follows your advice and gets even more in bed with dems.
If this last election should demonstrate anything to republicans, it's that when given a choice between left and lefty/lite, they will vote for the genuine article every time.
Your tactics are getting lame.
And old.
I would also appreciate clarification of the virtues of being "centrist".
As near as I can tell, centrists would rather "get along" than make decisions and stick to them regardless of who might get their feelings hurt.
People who make decisions by feeling rather than thinking have no business involving themselves in decision making when it involves anyone except themselves.
By the way, as Dennis Prager points out, there is no middle on abortion.
Abortion is either something that's never a good thing, or it's something that's good sometimes.
It should never have been reduced to a mere "choice".

GOP & Dem leaders to voters: Drop Dead!
It is hard to see how much GOP leaders will try to take into consideration the center-right U.S. majority when so many of them gleefully ignore the opinions of the Republican majority. Hence: open borders and massive never-ending legal immigration.

Thomas Andres
Sierra foothills

Star
"to verify that America is still a right of center as a country."

We truly need to get away from 'cut taxes and spend like drunken sailors' and move to 'tax and spend', a sound policy.

because....


It's Republican thought that has brought on this financial meltdown. Spending more than you have will surely lead to disaster.

It was Republicans who spend more than the Democrats. They increased pork barrel spending from 3,000 to 14,000 projects a year, NOT PAID FOR.

They have engaged in a five and half year social engineering project in the Middle East that costs $120 billion a year and may well last another 100 years, NOT PAID FOR.

They have added another layer of entitlement spending that costs $50 billion a year called Medicare Prescription, NOT PAID FOR.

Mandated $4 billion a year in ethanol subsidies, as well as drastically increased cotton, sugar, soybean, corn, wheat handouts, NOT PAID FOR.

Doubled the size of the Department of Education, NOT PAID FOR.

How would you pay for all this spending? It took 210 years for the first $5 trillion and debt and only 7 years of Republican control to double it. It's nigh time for some fiscal Republicanism.

Gop
The Gop ut up a man who had an affair with Cindy while married to someone else. Yes, he married her after he divorced #1. Got it. And Palin who had the affair with Brad Hanson. I guess we are the party of double standads. (wink wink)

Republicans are OUT OF THE LOOP
Most economists, whether consevative or liberal, are in agreement on one thing. When the economy tanks and the consumer demand that has driven it for the last decade or two dries up what is needed is GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION. Not a hands off policy that allows our great nation to go into a prolonged depression in these dangerous times.

There are four sources of GNP and their rate of increase determine economic growth:
Consumption, Investment, Exports, and Government.

Consumption is declining as consumers lose or fear losing their jobs. They hold on to every penny, waiting for things to get cheaper or afraid each paycheck is their last.

Investment is down because the banking system is disfunctional and even businesses with spotless credit and great business plans can no longer get financing for new projects.

Exports are down because the rest of the world is in even worse shape than we are and the dollar is actually rising as scared money searches for the safest harbor - the United States - which props up the dollar even more.

The only component of GDP that can pull us out of recession is Government spending. The American people know this because it is obvious. Thus calls for "limited" government fall on deaf ears and WILL NOT REVIVE the republican party at this time.

The real debate is not WHETHER more government intervention and spending is required. It is about WHAT we spend the money on. If you are not in that debate, you are OUT of the loop.

Shelly
I agree with you 100%. It's unfortunate the Democrats stick to their values whilst the Republicans do not.

Too bad it wasn't the other way around, then we would live in the perfect country.

christians
The Democrats represent what I believe are the most basic Christian values, helping thy neighbor, helping the poor and helping those in need. Christianity is about more then abortions and gay rights. I can understand their position on abortion but the whole gay rights thing mystifies me. Why does it bother them so much when two people of the same sex kiss. Leave the gays in peace.

The Republican Party is supposed to be about fiscal conservatism and small government but the social conservative want the government to enact legislation regarding gay marriage and abortions. This adds to the size and reach of the government which is opposite of what the Republican Party stands for.

I want the government to stay out of my life as much as possible. I don't want them telling me who to marry, that I have to wear a seat belt or a motorcycle helmet, or that I have to put a fence around my swimming pool.

On the other hand I don't think our country can be strong unless all parts of it are strong. If we continue to have wide spread poverty, an undereducated population and a decaying infrastructure we will struggle to maintain our life style. The rest of the world is catching up with us as our country crumbles.

A simple solution.
Regarding illegal migration:
1. Close the border.
2. Allow partial amnesty provided that the migrant pays all back taxes plus a hefty fine, and voluntarily excepts permanent non- voting status.
3. Anyone in violation after a defined date will be deported- with their children, who will not be native American citizens, but unlike their parents will achieve nationalized citizenship after 10 years.
The current unemployment rate is virtually identical with the "official" number of illegal migrants.
How many currently unemployed citizens would do those jobs?
Last time I looked, roofing and hanging drywall pay pretty good.
My teen would have loved working at any of the fast food chains in our town, but she doesn't speak Mexican.

Star Parker
writes, "When asked if the Bush tax cuts should be made permanent, only 38 percent of those who said they are "conservative" said yes. And 50 percent of "conservatives" said they favor government guaranteeing health care "even if it means raising taxes."

So if 38% of people self identify as conservatives and only 38% of them want to make the tax cuts permanent, that means only 14% of the public both believes the tax cuts should be permanent and self identifies as conservative. That's not very many of us. I wonder how many moderates and liberals believe the tax cuts should be permanent? I wonder if any meaningful conclusions whatsoever can be drawn from such research. Every person that self identified had their own definition of the term, I suppose. Quite meaningless. If pro-life initiatives failed everywhere, what does that say about the so called social agenda? What is the agenda btw?

We need to separate the social agenda from the perception of a witchhunt. Support moral values, yes. But refrain from supporting laws that impose such an agenda and conservatives could become the party of freedom. Without freedom, we are doomed economically. Without freedom, the republican party will never survive. There must be an opposition to socialism and it cannot come from a party intent on imposing its moral values by force.

Hey zapdoodat-
Who wrote and sponsored all that spending?
I'm not gonna do your homework for you, but I will say that republicans who helped these initiatives pass were just trying to get along.

51 days til Jan. 20th
(annfan): "As to the economy being George Bush's fault, that dog won' hunt. We had excellent growth for about six years of Bush's presidency, and low unemployment, too."

Let me get this straight. Everything was wonderful for the first six years of GW, and for some strange reason voters decided to opt for the Democrats. Oh, I forgot - the liberal media brainwashed the electorate and convinced the public that Bush and his compatriots were ruining the country.

(annfan): " ... it makes no sense to blame (Bush) for everything."

Well, he was the man in charge, and from where I sit, he didn't seem to care all that much where the country was headed during his watch. I think he said it all a while back, when he remarked that he was looking forward to going back to Texas and proping up his feet. I say the sooner the better.

Sandra
You're not quite accurate. Democrats do NOT believe in "helping thy neighbor, helping the poor and helping those in need" - Democrats (i.e. liberals) believe in using the power of Government to force the rest of us to help the poor and those in need.

This is the fundamental flaw in liberalism.

Great Article
Thanks Star. You are right I have been concerned that the Republican party would walk away from social issues, believing the lie that these are not important to America. I actually think they were not stressed enough in the campaign. I think many did not really understand how far left Obama is on abortion, gay agenda, and the Christian principles upon which this nation was founded. These issues along with limited goverment, strong defense, and developement of our oil and gas are vital to the character, strenght and security of our nation.

I Am A John Galt Conservative
"Who wrote and sponsored all that spending?"

The Republicans and their corporate sponsors.

Let's re-iterate. George Bush(R) was President from 2001-2008.

A Republican was Speaker of the House from January, 1995 through January of just last year.

Trent Lott(R) and Bill Frist(R) were Senate Majority leaders from 2001-2007.

The Future...
I truly believe that when this National financial crisis is ended. The FDR era is over.

The citizens will see the destruction of the Federal Reserve, problems of the UN, and redistribution of wealth, that ruined this country. And reject these institutions.

They will also reject both present parties, unless one makes major reforms. Even then the hatred for politicians that lead us into this crisis will be rejected.

A new era is comming. What will it be? Depends on who sounds the bell, loud and clear. I pray it is a return to constitutional government. Or will it be dividing up the states into groups under the Federal government. Who really knows?

You who believe in limited government. The problem is just like this survey. Who defines limit government, depends where the line is drawn. That is why Republicans are now center left. All politicians have become just used car salesman. Tell them whatever, just make the sale.

John
"Democrats (i.e. liberals) believe in using the power of Government to force the rest of us to help the poor and those in need."

As do Republicans. Except it's paid for with tax cuts.

Republicans have their own brand of give-a-ways. Of course, they don't overtly talk about it, but nevertheless, it comes in many forms. One form is pork-barrel spending. From 2001-2006, with Republicans (Bush, Hastert, Lott) at the helm in DC they ramped up pork barrel spending from 3,000 to 14,000 projects a year.

This Republican spending takes money from those who have no political connections and transfers that money to those who do have political connections. In sum, it is the ruthless expropriation of wealth from the American downtrodden political strata to those in the upper political strata.

I say ruthless, because it's feeding at the government trough, at the taxpayer's expense, in a time of war. Didn't these Republicans have no shame!

Sandra
writes, "The Democrats represent what I believe are the most basic Christian values, helping thy neighbor, helping the poor and helping those in need."

Let's be very clear. As Walter Williams has stated over and over, there is absolutely nothing Christian or moral about taking from your neighbor to give to another neighbor. That is called stealing and voting on a statute to make it legal does not make it any more moral. Okay? Government spending is NOT charity. Charity comes from the heart and the government does not have one.

Sandra, "If we continue to have wide spread poverty, an undereducated population and a decaying infrastructure we will struggle to maintain our life style"

You cannot force someone to not live in poverty if that is what they choose. We give them money. Look at the results of the trillions spent so far. Likewise, I see little result from the force feeding of education for the past however many years. A person wants to learn and avails themselves of the ample opportunities or they do not and no amount of spending will force any child to learn anything. You make the error of believing more money will solve these problems because collectively we can do anything we set our mind to. A fallacy. The problems are individual and require individual solutions. Individually, we will remain the world's superpower. Collectively we will fade away like Europe into the night replaced by a more dynamic demographic.

zapdoodat
You are absolutely correct. That is how Bush managed to turn a spending surplus into a spending deficit and rack up a National Debt of over $10 trillion which is growing daily due to the bailouts which are nothing more than a government give away to the rich.

Bush is the first President to declare a war and cut taxes at the same time. Our children and grandchildren will be paying for the "fiscal conservatism" of the Republicans for a long time.

Sandra
The Republican version of 'sacrifice on the home front in a time of war'; is to go shopping.

What a great shame. Their precious tax cuts are more important than running a competent war.

JEB BUSH stupid statement
It seems that George's little brother JEB is warning the GOP not to become the democrat-lite party. I think he is about 8 years too late as the GOP is already the democrat-lite party thanks mostly to JEB's big brother George. I guess GW has the same mentality has his father. If you can't beat-em, join-em. Sure hope the GOP has finally learned their lesson with the BUSHES but I fear it has not.

Hitchiker
Have you ever driven through a ghetto? Was your mother a crack whore? Do you know who your father was? Did your school have graffiti on the walls and doors on the toilet stalls? Were they selling crack on your playground? Did you have to join a gang for protection? It is asking a lot for a child growing up in these circumstances to help themselves and as a society we have failed them.

People don't want to live in poverty. Most don't have a choice. I do agree that people need to step up and help themselves but it is really hard to get a good job in a minority neighborhood when the employers have all fled and you can't support a family on minimum wage.

Is it stealing to take from a neighbor and give it to a big investment firm or bank to bail them out?

Traditional values
The Republican Party should stand for traditional values, but with an intelligent and reasoned approach that may not satisfy the hard religious right. For example, continued opposition to stem cell research is a losing issue that few support, including conservatives. Opposition to abortion in all circumstances, including rape, incest, and th elife of the mother, is another losing issue. Same with a focus on school prayer, which even many conservatives do not find to be a major issue.

Hitchhiker


"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'"

-Matthew 25:41-45

Values.....BUT
Lets remember the values that put the GOP into power, and they were all conservative values.

However in 2006, the Dems used a different tactic, and that tactic was one of establishing a premise, attacking on a premise, and shaming the individual on that premise. Tactics of Saul Alinsky.

How many GOP's lost seats under the fog of some type of investigation in 2006 and 2008 ????
How many times did you hear......"corruption" in the months leading to the elections?
How Many Dems picked up seats under the premise of "restoring" bipartisanship and honor to congress?
(which by the way has an approval rating lower than my shoe size)

This is why you have anyone questioning anything liberally batsh!tty is attacked, attacked and attacked again. (Palin and her family as peoples evidence #1)

The conservatives of the world need to be reminded of this....because in all elections forthcoming, they need to understand the Dem tactics and be prepared to counter them.

And remember....this is all for one thing.......NOT the betterment of the country NOT the betterment of the people.....but for Power.....pure, simple, Power to move forward on agendas that are not beneficial to the US.

No....elections in the US are going to have to be looked at differently.

Because the Conservative agenda, one which is based on beliefs and values is going to go against a Liberal Agenda.....one which is based upon retaining POWER......since their true agenda is an unpopular platform.

Shelly
Shelly, honey, with all due respect, you are a brainless twit.

You’ve obviously been brainwashed by the left-leaning media and I’m guessing you are absolutely besotted by Obama’s magnificence. Hope and Change. Sounds good.

Please list just one way you have been harmed by Bush’s decision to “void the constitution [sic] and the bill of rights [sic].”

On the other hand, Obama is on record as being dissatisfied with the Constitution, because it was not written to sufficiently support redistribution of wealth. And he hopes to appoint judges to remedy that shortcoming.

The One Himself has ascertained that war is not TOTALLY bad, and he appears to have no intention to end the current war before its time (though he is thinking of starting one or two more, as in Afghanistan, maybe Pakistan).

It’s possible you are going to the wrong airports and train stations, if “postal goons” are accosting you there. Yet surely you are willing to accept some degree of inconvenience in those places if it means you are more likely to arrive at your destination alive.

“The boy king” had the country running pretty well, despite his allowing Congress to overspend egregiously, until the Democrats took over Congress two years ago. All downhill from there.

Sorry, I’m NOT buying what YOU’RE selling.

Borrow and spend
(John): "Democrats (i.e. liberals) believe in using the power of Government to force the rest of us to help the poor and those in need."

(zapdoodat): "As do Republicans. Except it's paid for with tax cuts."

Right - provided you don't count doubling our national debt during the past eight years (GW again) and running up a $TRILLION deficit this year alone. Thanks for the laugh.

jeffjenn
Thanks for the show of support! Eight years of Republican administration coming to fruition. Cutting taxes and spending like drunken sailors is going to catch up sometime.

Undermining Local MSM "News"
Here's a thought that came to mind regarding broader public dissemination of our best conservative messages, and wondering if it's been tried somewhere.

Our local MSM/Pravda-edition AP+PC-dominated newspaper could definitely benefit from some harder-edged balance to their editorial page. (Not to mention what they regard as "news" reporting, but let's not be too greedy yet.)

Kathleen Parker and George Will can often help with trying to make this nation truly a better place, but during this dreadful election cycle they were either marshmallow-soft or soft-boiled-eggheadish.

I'm thinking regular truly shaking-up doses of Thomas Sowell or Ann Coulter here locally could really help with the progress of our messages. Starting, like, NOW.

The local editors clearly are not interested in voluntarily presenting such disrespectful, ignorant and/or hateful discourse.

Does anyone out there know if it's been tried to purchase space for such genuinely balancing editorials?

I was thinking of first approaching local Republican party officials, see if citizen education might be something they could perceive an interest in funding. (Yes, I know the GOP now has a very big reaching-out and reaching-over problem.)

Thanks, all you Citizen/Dudes and Dudettes.

It's a lonnnnng way back to majority
Several of the posters have pointed out that it is not conducive to enlarging the Republican party when its members insist that those who do not accept the social beliefs of the party (apparently as listed in the party’s platform) are not welcome. “Take your evil votes and give them to some other evil candidate” is just plain unfriendly!

I’m as close to Libertarian as I could be (other than their position on war, which appears to be “NEVER”), but will vote Republican until there is a viable Libertarian candidate. But I agree that George Bush trashed the “fiscally conservative” image of the Republican party, beginning with the Medicare prescription drugs benefit, for the richest members of Medicare, obviously, since there are many programs that would cover the poorest. And he should have wielded that veto pen, early and often, to protect the Republican congress from itself. But he didn’t.

I had forgotten the media circus that surrounded all of the “corrupt” Republicans in ‘06, perhaps because no one even mentioned “Cold Cash” Jefferson, Charlie Rangel, who didn’t pay taxes on his offshore rental because all those people spoke Spanish and he couldn’t figure out what they were saying, or even the guy who replaced Mark Foley, promising a return to “family values” even as he was caught cheating on his wife.

We see the tactics of the Dems but seem constitutionally unable to mimic or counter them. It is unfortunate that the media won’t do our job for us.

It will be a difficult task to convince voters that we ARE the party of limited government and fiscal responsibility. Because we haven’t been for 8 years.

Whoever said we need to find a “pretty” candidate to charm the voters back into the fold is correct. (This explains why the media and the Left–I know, redundant–continue to attack Sarah Palin, long after she has returned to Alaska.)

Republican Party
We must return to social and fiscal conservativeism! The Country does not need two nearly identical parties!
Deano

slacker at 10:51am
You NEED to read George Will's columun that was posted on TH yesterday, November 30, 2008. The problems of the last eight years are numerous and varied but can mostly be explained by what government did by intervening.

The single greatest problem was caused when Clinton and a Republican congress removed the barriers to credit default swaps in December of 2008 as Clinton was leaving office.

I am not advocating a complete removal of rules and regulations. However, the uncertainty and the constant rule changes that are the policy du jour creates uneasiness in the market place. It's hard to play the game when you don't know what the rules will be tomorrow.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

A liberal view
The responses just don't make sense:

Becky - You whine about the horrid tax increase for people making over 250,000 a year. But in reality, Obama proposed a 3% increase from 33% to 36%! If you do the math (correctly) you will see that this amounts to a truly trivial (for someone making $280000 a year) increase of $900. Your arguments are nonsensical.

Judester - You claim I should check my history but don't even say where. If we look at the income disparity between poor and rich, it decreased since the depression but has increased rather dramatically ever since Reagan. This "Robin Hood in Reverse" tax policy is another are where people just aren't that stupid.

Vitaglubet - It's not true that liberals support "abortion on demand" and certainly not "after birth" as I think someone else claimed. People have legitimate differences on abortion, and the conservative position can be seen as consistent with Christian values. However, the rest of your ideology is not: pro-war, pro-punishment, pro-death penalty, anti-education, pro-rich, anti-social service, intolerant, prejudiced, and so on.

Polly
If you are a nice white girl who doesn't know anybody overseas or never checks out a book on Osama Bin Laden from the library, you probably have not had your civil rights violated. If you were stationed in Iraq and called your spouse back home in the U.S. there was a good chance the Feds were listening to your phone conversation. If you checked out a book and underlined a passage quoting Bin Laden you might get a visit from your local FBI agent.

Taking my shoes off at the airport and leaving my bottle of Pepsi in the trash can is not making me any safer. That is nothing but faux security to make idiots feel better. Being told if I don't take my shoes off I will have all of my bags searched and be subjected to the newest machines that show me naked is acting like a goon.

The "boy king" put our country $10 trillion in debt with the help of his pals in Congress before the Dems got in there. The Dems did not have enough votes in either house to pass any meaningful legislation. The "boy king" started a war in country that did nothing to harm us while abandoning the war in Afghanastan where the terrorist were and still are. It was the "boy king" who loosened regulations on the purchase of oil futures so that his rich friends in the oil industry could make more money while driving up gas prices.

Shall I go on?

Yet Another Liberal's View

LOSE THE STUPID "VALUES" PLANK!

No, not because it's a loser politically, as has been amply demonstrated lo this past November.

Lose it because it's hypocritical to be for limited government on the one hand, and for government enforcement all over our morality on the other hand. That's limited/notlimited == contradiction.

You think abortion is killing babies? Don't have Abortions! You think Gay sex is evil? Stay in the closet, or go form a Christian Theocracy someplace else!

I myself will never be a conservative or a republican. But while I'd like to see government involvement in some areas where most TH'ers would not (ex Healthcare) I do recognize that government can get too big, and I do see real value for the country in fighting against that.

Everyone Is Guilty of Sins & Greed!
If you want to blame anyone then let's all blame ourselves for our irresponsible behaviors because we were all too busy with our own lives. Until 2008, jobs were plentiful. The U.S. Congress forced bankers to commit fraud by drawing up fraudulent loans. The U.S. Congress allowed ACORN who was tied to Obama to commit the biggest fraud and criminal act in America's history on our country and the world! But, who cared until 2008? And, who is being held accountable at the top or investigated as the Justice Department seems to be silent on that issue. The U.S. Justices are silent on the issue of Obama's proof of natural born citizenship in violation of Article II, U.S. Constitution, even though, he's a Harvard grad and a constitutional attorney who took an oath to UPHOLD THE LAW!
The only time we wake up is when it hits our jobs and pocketbooks and we have to turn our 5,000 sq ft mansions into a tent except for those who lived within their means, but most people live on plastic. So, everyone points the finger but never cared that both dems and Republicans gave our tax dollars to their friendly lobbyists who donate to their campaigns. So, today, many voted for a man whose background remains a mystery except for his socialist radical platform and friends. We voted because the media told us we must feel guilty and redeem ourselves from the guilt of enslaving people who we didn't enslave, but our white ancestors helped free. We voted because we didn't hear Obama's words but heard what we wanted to hear - "Change is coming to America," and as Peggy the Moocher said, "Obama will pay my rent and pay my gas!" Sure, he will!

Polly
Partisanship gives everyone convenient blinders which enables partisans to avoid their share of responsibility. This meltdown was already well in play even before the 2006 election took place in November. The market started falling, and bk's and foreclosures began to rise. You can hang your argument on all the usual suspects, mind you, you just can't remotely absolve the GOP of its share of responsibility. When McCain tried to reform F&F, only 19 of the 55 GOP Senators in 2005 would support it. When proposals to rein in sub-prime lending were considered by the treasury in 2005, it caved in to pressure from banks, including WaMu, Countrywide, etc - and when new rules were written a year later - they were so watered down as to be meaningless. One of the great ironies I routinely see is the fact that most people don't understand that no - and I mean no - Congressional Action was needed to put an end to sub-prime lending. The Treasury and the FDIC both have all the power they need - but they didn't use it.

From 2002 to 2006 the economy was on a collision course with common sense. The Fed was determined to have a "consumer" recovery to overcome the market crash. To do that, it made historically low interest money available to banks who took the opportunity to increase their profits. The result was an inflationary housing spiral that exploded in 2003 and extended deeply into 2006. The Fed knew it, could have stopped it, but did nothing.

Since "every", and I mean "every" real estate boom for the last 200 years has been followed by an equivalent "bust", it begs common sense to pretend that no one could see this coming.

You are still parroting what you very likely talked about then, which was how "good" the economy was. The bottom line is that the foundation was rotten to the core - and so it collapsed.

Dr. Douglas
Thank you. Someday the "Social Christians" will realize they are not Christians at all. As a whole they need to go back and read Proverbs and Matthew to get some insight into Jesus. And they really need to stop quoting the Old Testament much of which is in direct conflct with the New Testament.

I have a friend who considers himself a "Social Conservative" with Christian beliefs but when I started quizzing him about the Bible he didn't have the answers. Quick - who was Abrahams mistress? What religion is based upon his illegitimate offspring? What was the name of his illegitimate son? Those are easy questions that he could not answer. Why do I suspect that is true of many of the Fundamentalists?

over the rainbow
I think its a case where the people -- many new or first time voters -- forgot what the left represents. And they will have to be reminded to the tune of a whole lot of "I told you so's".

Redlac
"The Treasury and the FDIC both have all the power they need - but they didn't use it."


Yea, there is irony. And the same regulators are the ones picking the winners and losers now. How ironic indeed?

jeffjenn...zapdoodoo
Under Republican administration.....the stimulus check was dangerous....not good!!! The moonies cried!!! How we gonna pay for this?? Hearings at the Capitol!!

Well, simple truth was, is and forever shall be....the libs used the opportunity to look pious by feigning concern, all the while not really caring whether or not it was going to be paid for. They were just mad that it happened under the republicans.
If this was NOT the case, then why would the moonbats initiate another one....and request one more after the big D'oh! is sworn into office?.......

Lets think about the last 2 years....with the house and senate under dim rule......all great things huh? An approval rating lower than my shoe size.....under the expert teutelage of Reed and Pelosi (2 wastes of skin) And.....the debt has been lowered with the moonies expert fiscal management....oh wait......that did not happen and.......yep its still the GOP's fault....

How much longer you going to play that card....?

Truth is that the Dimwits have been in controlling the helm since January 3, 2007. Quite a few great things happening since then aren't there?? Whew!!! Too many to list....too many to list....



Rose
Feeling better after that little rant? The U.S. Congress didn't force the banks to write fraudulent loans. What the heck are you talking about?

The State of Hawaii has said Obamas birth certificate is legitimate. The people who are stuck on that bit of foolishness really need to move on.

Do you really live in a 5,000 square foot mansion?

FORMULA PLUS FIGHT
The bias mainstream media targets the 36% who say that they‘re moderate. After all, conservatives look for conservative ideas and the conservative takes on the news in places like talk radio and conservative Web sites like Town hall. In this case you’re just preaching to the choir. Where do the moderates get their news sources from? The bias mainstream media and if the media can succeed in fooling the moderates into believing they are reporting the facts and not their liberal agenda, then their bias reporting can sway elections. That is why I believe that we must implement the ideas drawn out in Star’s article but, we must also fight the institutions that work directly against our values and agenda. Join me in my fight against the bias mainstream media at, http://stopthepresses2.blogspot.com

Get Rid of the GOP
The GOP will not be reformed. The party elites are going to continue to resist and marginalize conservatives. The GOP must be destroyed and replaced with a Conservative party that keeps the elites, the warmongers, and the RINOs out. The main reason McCain lost, besides the fact the he's a horrible person, is that he is a war hero running for office during a foreign war that is despised and hated by most Americans, and rightfully so. The GOP will forever be a warmongering party. It needs to be killed off, not allowed to linger. Do not give any money to the Republican party!

Mike
Your apparent lack of ability to grasp facts is fairly evident in your comment. Let's try this slowly so maybe you can understand.

The Dems got a majority in both houses in 2007.

The Senate was a virtual tie and no legislation was going to get out of that chamber.

The housing collapse started in early 2006 (although there were signs of it much earlier)so it was before the Dems got the majority.

The approval rating of Congress was in the toilet long before the Dems won the majority.

Bush's approval rating is now in the low 20's.

The Republicans who had absolute power in both Congress and the White House did not pass any legislation to help avoid and mitigate the problem so yeah, I think it was their fault and apparently the majority of voters agree with me.

Flamming multiculturalist liberal
“LOSE THE STUPID "VALUES" PLANK!”

Flaming Liberal, if it’s so stupid then why is the favorite partisan issue of the left to preserve” abortion at any cost, and use the same social issues for their partisan fodder? They made a litmus test of abortion with nominees, especially Supreme Court ones. And how many filibusters and maneauvers have they used because of it. They created their own namesake nemesis in Bork. The same social partisanship was a huge factor for the Fannie and Freddie fiasco.

So what you are saying is the social platform the left uses and abuses is irrelevant to the right. But if you think, as the left habitually does, that voters – moderates and independents in tow -- rubber stamped your leftist social agenda, you might have a huge suprpise in store. As usual, you and they will just go on ignoring that at any cost.

Sandra
Whew....you got your Socially conservative friend on that one.

Not knowing who Abrahams mistress was....that idiot!!!

Kinda like the same people who voted for Omama and didn't mind:
#1 His pro life stance
#2 Palin as his VP
Or the ones that:
#1 Thought that the republicans were in power in the house and senate
#2 Think its the governments right to re-distribute the wealth.


Patrick
The bias main stream media failed to report on McCain's cheating on his wife, his record of crashing three jets before he got to Vietnam, his ties to Charles Keating, and his ex-felon father-in-law for whom he worked just to name a few. The bias main stream media did not make a big issue out of Palin's ties to the Alaskan Independence Party whose founder espoused seceding from the union, didn't say anything about the fired chef who was never fired, didn't say much about her unmarried, pregnant, teenage daughter and never investigated who the contractor buddies of Todd's were that built their house.

In addition the mainstream media was complicit in the War in Iraq by their failure to ask probing questions about WMD's and Hussein's ties to terrorist.


doctorfixit
McCain lost because of three things. His pick of Palin, his erratic behavior after the economic collapse and the hateful ads he ran when he got desperate. His age and the fact that most Washington conservatives didn't like him also contributed.

Reps REALITY check 3
Star, most "black Americans maybe conservative" about the gay heterphobics trying to impose their relationships on the rest of US as "marriages" but there are some harsh realities (if the reports are true ??) that say the majority are liberals in many social issues such as child bearing and marriage, too many children born out of wedlock and mothers with children with multiple fathers, the immorality in the crack music, are two examples. Affirmative Action has passed it's time, it is unfair and I believe that is the main reason black Americans vote for democrats, that and government jobs, government grants and plans.Too many black Americans have grown up on Affirmative Action and government programs and they are afraid to let go and jump in the free market. Do you think these Administration will end Affirmative Action ?? fat chance !! Black Americans need more vocal leadership from Black American Conservatives to counter the race brokers like bsnotsosharpton and jjtheextortionist ! Where are the black conservative voices ??? they only whisper while the lying liberal leftist yell and make them selves look like they are helping while ripping off $$$.
Their is much more to the REALITY check. I would think that the Republican leadership already understands this, why they don't act on it raises many questions !! But unless today's REALITY of how things are done now a days and how the "competition" operates is addressed and the proper adjustments made, then this Republican party will continue to be the slaves of the demoncraps, at the expense of US !!

Dr Dugg
Becky - You whine about the horrid tax increase for people making over 250,000 a year. But in reality, Obama proposed a 3% increase from 33% to 36%! If you do the math (correctly) you will see that this amounts to a truly trivial (for someone making $280000 a year) increase of $900. Your arguments are nonsensical.



Dr Dugg....I hope you don't measure prescriptions for a living....If so, your last name doesn't happen to be "Kevorkian"?

$280K X 36% = 100,800 in Taxes.
$280K X 33% = 92,400 in Taxes.

Difference of $8400 or $700 per month.

But hey.....I may be wrong....there is such thing as liberal math.......which is what I assume you are using??

Go do some research on what taking an ADDITIONAL(on average) $9,000 out of the pockets of those making over $280,000.....takes out of the economy. If you figure that there are 2 million households with salaries (dual or single) of $280K or above, thats a trivial $18 BILLION out of the economy.....

Even more disturbing.....do you really think its right to have the government, the poorest run, most wasteful entity in the US take that money and put it to good use? Do you really trust that to happen??

Subject: Been there , done that
Shelly,
True conservatives were abhored at what happened and share your sentiment.

Patrick and Sandra
Both sadly live in Florida and both sadly (because they voted and hurt our country) are morons !!
McCain lost because he rather play nice then win ( he is a nice loser), the corrupted media was paid off to attack Palin, $750 million to spew lies and BS, acorn cheating and morons like you two !!

"Once you accept the Truth, everything else will be clear to you" You are both addicted to BS and Lies ! Why ??? Like all addicts you need to be told the TRUTH and maybe you will face your illness and change or you will still have to go further down before you do...at the expense of others..just like the typical ADDICTS !!

Sandra
"Feeling better after that little rant? The U.S. Congress didn't force the banks to write fraudulent loans. What the heck are you talking about?"

This statement along with your other posts are pure stupidity. Perhaps should learn what those committees in Congress actually do before opening your mouth. Your a media lemming slurping the kool aid and parroting with no actual understanding. Let me guess you think everything the media puts out there is the truth.

Pity a civics test isn't required before voting.

repubs do careabout social issues
to sandra of fl. I am a single mother raising a child as a single parent, my sons father died of a heart attack. My son makes A,s in school, doesnt sell or use drugs,doesnt steal cars,or vandalize property.I make the same income as my neighbors more or less.The excuses you give are the reason I as a responsible parent who complains when there is vandalism, drug usage or sells at my sons bus stop,teenagers hanging out all night having sex get treated as if Iam the bad person. T

Sandra
Get a life! McCain and Palin are history.

Worry about your guy, Obama. His campaign policies are bound to lead to disaster, although there are some indications that he is listening to sane advice as compared to the lunatic left.

The US will still be in Iraq and Afghanistan two years from now. Unemployment and inflation will both be much higher than now. What will you say then?

Politics!
The state of the Economy of the United States, even of the whole World seems to be the
current and dominant topic of discussion among peoples from many walks of life.
How did this happen?, who is responsible for it? when will it be resolved?,
How much more will I lose on my 401K?, are some of the many questions that are being
asked with no answers forthcoming?. The answer is Politics and Political Correctness.
Over the years, Politics has created an environment where Politicians can lie,
deceive cheat and not suffer any adverse effects. The phrase "that is Politics" has
often been used to justify irregularities and even cover up unacceptable behaviour of
Politicians. Decisions and considerations are made, not for the general good of all,
but for the particular good of the few supporters who will raise hell if their demands
are not met. Honesty, integrity, unselfishness and other associated characteristics
do not exist. When did you last hear a Politician apologize on his own for something
wrong that he did and is guilty of?, speak the truth?, or answer a question directly?.
Politics is the bane of human existence, it is like a cancer that is progressively
destroying and decaying a human being who was once very healthy and full of life.
Until and unless Politics and Political Correctness are eradicated and replaced by
honesty, truthfulness and unselfish behaviour at all times, in all places and under
all circumstances, the status quo will not change. Elections can be held and
"Dream Teams" can be assembled each time, it will only be a joke!. Changining one's
pillow to cure a headache is not only stupid, it will never work.

Ridgeway Weerackoon
lexmh2002@yahoo.com

xpressit, Mike, ProudtobeanAmerican
Great posts!

We all agree
Sandra...

You tap dance on the edge of reality don't you?

If those things were all relevant....don't you think they would have been investigated?
Fact is that they were not relevant or were proven to be false.

But I guess Palins daughter being pregnant was relevant

I guess having 234 lawyers investigating Palin and digging up the dirt and finding the firing of a state trooper trumped all the other stuff????

Fact is, if there was anything....ANYTHING that was close to be relevant it would have been investigated by the old media and it would have been topic of discussion #1 for any GOP member up until the end.

McCain was cleared in the Keating Scandal....a scandal that (whoops) 4 Democrats were involved in. Something that the Media did not report on because it cast a poor image on the true perpetrators......the Democrats.

Don't forget the Alinsky tactic......nothing to say? Just start shouting!!

The Roman
#60 post

I concur, if we compare ourselves to ancient Israel we can see a paralell. Regardless of the progressive, modern revisionist argument, this country was founded on Judeo/Christian heritage.
If you take the time to read the comments of the Founders, it's there; but others prefer to attack our Foundation by taking out of context Jeffersons ONE letter to a Baptist inquisitor.
(For example) They contend we have a separation between Church and State and church (read Christianity) has no place in the public square,
(as in Marxist Leninist USSR's constitution).
It's nothing of the kind, it was to ensure religious freedom from the State and a State run
and supported National Church, in the case of the colonies and English rule, that would be the Anglican Church of England.
When we embarked on the wholesale slaughter of
innocents via abortion on demand, we have witnessed ever increasing warnings in frequency and number. But like Israel of old, ignored them in our pride and self will, so now with this election having a choice between life and death, America chose death as personified in O's
policies regarding the most heinous methods of execution of preborn babies ever, as cruel and unusal punishment prohibited by our original Constition. We can't ask God to Bless us when
there are 50 million plus babies murdered. We are reaping what we have sown.

Sandra
I take from your Matthew quote that we should institute all these social programs cuz then we are covered?

Again, there is a difference between doing those things yourself which is how I read the scripture and instituting government programs that supposedly achieve the same result.

You quote, "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'"

You. You. You. You do understand the term You, don't you? Why have this admonishment if it is supposed to be some government responsibility to care for the poor rather than the responsibility of you and me? Find me one scriptural reference placing any responsibility on some collective group or society at large. How will you be judged if, instead of helping someone in need out of your own pocket, you simply vote for some politician promising to do it for you by taking money from rich people? But Lord, I always voted democrat is not going to do it.

Btw. I have seen it all. Is the son or daughter of a crack whore disadvantaged? Yes. Are you going to take children away from their parents if they are disadvantaged and place them with more advantageous parents? Are you going to personally tutor them all? Or, are you going to vote for some guy or gal that tells you they will fix it with other people's money and the lack of funding is why this type stuff happens? If only we had given the crack whore's mother's mother more money, this never would have happened. Ya, right.

Get rid of far right dogma....
The real failure of the GOP is it's dependence on the radical right!!! The ideal of politicizing social reforms--w/ dogma of christian only values--in a extraordinarily diverse society; dependence on the military industrial state; and contempt of socialization of essential services (unmodern, unrealistic, and unmanageable in today's society of low wage earners).

Mike
Actually, you are both wrong on how you are calculating the taxes. First, it is on taxable income so let's assume the whole $280k is taxable and after deductions which means they actually made a lot more than $280k.

If you look at the 2008 tax tables you will see that for a single making over 164,550 but less then 357,700 you pay 40,052 + .33 of the amount over 164,550. So 280,000 - 164,550 = 115,450 x .33 = 38,098. If you multiple by .36 you get 41,562 for a difference of 3,464.

So a single person making 280k after deductions pays an additional $3,464 a year not $900 or $9,000.

Reps REALITY check 1
Star, you mean well with your points and your heart is in the right place but not enough in REALITY, that is the problem with the Republican leadership, they live in a fantasy world where they do not FIGHT ! Just like Mclame who I supported as the lesser of the two bad candidates and because of Sarah Palin. Mclame, played the "nice guy" roll and obaliar cheated him right out of this election, now we are all paying the price. McCain worked hard and put in the time but he played by his own rules (the nice guy, everybody will like me rules) and now the rest of US are paying for it ! When McCain said "come fight with me," I believed him I did not know it was going to be a "politically correct" fight on one side while the demoncrats, the corrupted media, hollyweird and the race brokers, played as dirty as they could get away with ! That is not a fight that is come "martyr" with me !
Like the farmer said when his bull died no more BS ! I like Michael Steel but I have seen him as I have seen many "nice" Republicans get abused by the jerkof alan colmes, time and time again.. if Steele is going to play nicey nice, we will head for the same outcome, NICE LOSERS !

repubs do care about social issues
These neighborhoods were not always ghettos, these kids werent born a gang member, werent born selling drugs. The people that live in these neighborhoods turn their heads to what is going on they dont want to get involved or dont want to be a so called snitch. They sit back watch it happen and then cry wheres the police or govt.to clean the mess up.The kids see their parents lying, committing fraud, making excuses for their behavior and their kids behavior. I do care about people but if you lived here among this you would understand handouts and social programs are not working. That is why I am tired of being ridiculed and because I am a Republican, not politically correct for being tough on crime and a involved parent.You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink, Or God helps those who help themselves.

Flaming Lib

"But while I'd like to see government involvement in some areas where most TH'ers would not (ex Healthcare) I do recognize that government can get too big, and I do see real value for the country in fighting against that.”

What a hoot … and load of malarkey. For smaller government? Where, pray tell?

The same agenda-pushing, big-government type liberals who demand government subsidize the largest abotrtion provider in the country; who support regulating the free speech and political speech via the fairness doctrine; or who want to mandate what pharmacists must sell; or who redefine property rights to take from one owner to give to another for more tax revenue; or who now want to force doctors and hospitals to perform abortions; or who want to regulate what preachers can say from the pulpit – especially on “controversial”, political, and those social issues of the left.

Yea “we’re for smaller government….and we’re here to help.”

conservative fluctuations
Is it OK for the definition of conservative to change slightly? It will infuriate those who still cling to fundamental platforms and detest those who are watering down their stances, but I think the party and the American people should be allowed to flux a little--perhaps this is the advent of a new conservatism. The only thing to keep in mind: At what point is someone no longer conservative? When do they cross over into libertarian or flaming illuminati camp? If the definition of a conservative changes, it must be clearly stated and not become nebulous.

its relative
in the 2000 pole conservatives would be those aligning with Bush vs Gore(Dean influenced) in 2008 those aligning with McCain(tarred and feathered with Bush) vs Obama (Glowing in the adoration of the media)and the moderates and Liberals are probably likewise shifting left and right based on the relative different appearances. Did the views of the issues change that much? I think not.

To the left, to the left...
Yep, we're going left.

1. No Northeast libs have been able to get near the White House in ages, only Southern Dems Carter and Clinton, until, that is, The O Most Liberal One appeared on the scene, annointed by the Kennedy clan.

2. Prop 8 barely passed, compared to a similar measure several years ago which enjoyed an overwhelming victory.

Both Clintons were extremely effective in portraying conservatives as wild-eyed crazies to be shunned and derided. No doubt TOMLO will build upon that, only with a twist, to make it appear like his own idea.

Hitchhiker
The government is you and me. We elect the people who are supposed to represent us.

As a country we need to find a way to stop the generational cycle of poverty and self-destruction that is happening in both our inner cities and in many rural areas. Taking children away from loving parents or giving more money to drug addicts is obviously not the answer. Better educational institutions that keep children safe and off the streets is a start. Getting rid of gangs and stopping crime is a needed step. Unless as a country we fund efforts to do both of these we are doomed to failure.


"He who gives to the poor will lack nothing, but he who closes his eyes to them receives many curses."

-Proverbs 28:27

"He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God."

-Proverbs 14:31

"The wealth of the rich is their fortified city; they imagine it an unscalable wall."

-Proverbs 18:11


"There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your brothers and toward the poor and needy in your land."

-Deuteronomy 15:11

Wow, Reps drifted far-right????
How do you figure, Dr. Doug?

I remember my mom and dad having this discussion, because she was a Rep and he was a Dem. As a union organizer from back in the 30s when unions really were needed to reform the wage-slave system of this country, Dad was a Dem because the Dems had supported unions when he was getting his head busted on the picket line. But in 1972, the last national election he was alive for, he was uncomfortable with the direction of the party. He was the first person I ever heard use the word "liberal" to describe a Dem. He said the party was "swinging toward the left" and "not in a good way". I think he'd be thoroughly disgusted if he saw how to the left it is now.

Mom, OTOH, was a Rep because she was a from a small farming community in ND and thought gov't was best that governed least and took as little of her money as possible. By supporting businesses (so called "rich"), she recognized, that the R Party was assuring that she could get a job and pay for whatever she needed. She wouldn't vote Dem because the Dems always seemed to want more of her paycheck while the Reps often worked to lower taxes.

That was the Rep Party until a few years ago when they went nuts spending the tax-payers' money, making themselves look a lot more like Dems. So, if Reps have drifted at all, it's been to the left, not the right. But, I can understand where you might make that mistake, because you've been standing on the Dem ice flow as it has drifted horribly to the left. As I said, I think my Dad would be disgusted and I don't think he'd still be a Dem.

Oh, and in case you want to say I've got the same problem -- I'm a registered non-partisan, so I think my view of the two parties is pretty non-biased. I generally prefer Rep candidates in national elections because they tend to support my conservative values more -- except when they want to spend my money as badly as the Dems do.

Eliminating a Race
Abortion platform for democrats is hailed by African Americans. I am confused, why do African-Americans support abortion so much. 20 million African American babies aborted since Roe v. Wade. We are wiping their race off the map

REPUBLICANS NEED TO KEEP THAT SOCIAL PLATFORM. Even though blacks don't really vote GOP, we need to preserve that race in U.S.




Single-Issue Voters:
To many politicians the single-issue voters are dream voters. Once you promise to do the one item they want, you can move on to the next single-issue voter.

But very few of us are single-issue voters ... whom I think shouldn't be voting anyway if that one issue is all they are concerned with. We are interested in a variety of things in Washington and this country. Some of them are abortion, gun control or lack thereof, honesty in politics, small government vs. large government, bailouts, war, illegal immigration, etc.

What we have to try to do is find someone for office who represents as many of the things we want as possible.

When anyone tries to pin down why the GOP didn't win this election they tend to consider single issues. The GOP didn't win because ... (fill in your own blank). The trouble is that the GOP didn't win because they tried to stick to three or four items for the single-issue voters. Many other issues were basically ignored by the GOP and the press.

To gain again, they need to address more than those single-issue problems.

Flaming Liberal Multiculturalist
"I do recognize that government can get too big, and I do see real value for the country in fighting against that.”

That sounds like "Newspeak".
“The great enemy of clear language is insincerity.”
-- George Orwell

Inarguably, Big-Government is synonymous with bureaucracy. When have you advocated or seen the liberal left advocate limiting bureaucracy? That would be an oxymoron.

Two sides to wealth redistribution
While conservatives rant about efforts to redistribute wealth downward they blithely ignore the upwards redistribution of supply side economics.

Some examples:

100% of lower and middle class workers are subject to payroll taxes. The earnings of upper income workers are exempt after 100k.

The first Bush tax cuts, slanted toward the wealthy, were justified by tax surpluses. The bias in favor of the rich was rationalized because they pay more income taxes. In fact, the surplus was a PAYROLL tax surplus. As a result, those with the lightest payroll tax burben ended up being the biggest beneficiaries of payroll tax surpluses.

Hedge fund operators, now roundly vilified, pay the much lower capital gains tax rate on their earnings. Capital gains rates are meant to encourage and reward the risk takers who ulitmately create jobs and wealth. As we now know, the hedge fund operators were not taking risks, they were using borrowed money and passing along the risks to the next guy, ultimately the US taxpayer.

Municipal tax policies routinely favor big box retailers over small business in their issuance of tax abatements, some so liberal as to result in local taxes being added to the retailer's balance sheets. Logic dictates that government allowing some businesses to keep the taxes they collects hardly creates and even playing field.

Subsidies for oil, ethanol, cotton, sugar, etc...

Folks, it is not free markets that have resulted in middle class incomes stagnating while higher incomes have gone thru the roof, it is fiscal policy. Thankfully, in part due to the supply sider banking bailout, the American public has said no to being trickled down on.

Sandra
writes, "As a country we need to find a way to stop the generational cycle of poverty and self-destruction that is happening in both our inner cities and in many rural areas.'

You have hit upon the problem. As a country, meaning collectively. Need to find a way, as in, no one has ever found a way but, let's keep trying. If you don't know what causes the problem, why expect others to? If you don't know how best to ameliorate the problem, then how can you vote for someone claiming that knowledge? It is kind of like, hey, we can put a man on the moon, surely we can do such and such. Well, we can't. Two different types of problems. You even used scripture to tell us the poor will always be with us. I accept that. Why can't you? Do you believe we can succeed where God cannot?

Do you think perhaps, it is an admonishment to share because however you define poor or rich, the fact is, there will always be disparity. Some will always have more than others. Liberals prefer to blame inequality on circumstances rather then individual choices or such things as effort. It goes along with the belief that we are all created equal therefore we must all live in equal houses, have equal bank accounts, etc. etc. when this ignores individual effort and hard work on the behalf of those who often have more.

If you believe in the scriptures, then you know we are not all going to face an equal disposition at judgment day. Why not?

Califson and Faux Reagan
YOu are wrong it was the Republican party that was promising something for nothing. Cutting taxes in a time of war and borrowing the money from China. Talking a lot about cuting wasteful govt spending but not talking about cutting services.

Most people like their government services as long as someone else pays for it. When Republicans and conservatives start talking about cutting services instead of spending then I will believe they are really promoting limited government.

Also stop blaming the media. Fox News is the top rated Cable network and it is absolutely biased in favor of conservatives. If having the top ratings does not make you mainstream what does.

Face facts
(Mike): "Truth is that the Dimwits have been in controlling the helm since January 3, 2007. Quite a few great things happening since then aren't there?? Whew!!! Too many to list....too many to list...."

Things have been so bad since 2007 under the Dems that the voters kicked them out and put the Repubs back in control. Wait - that's not what happened. Go figure.

bryce
You have the reason!

Many phony Conservatives like saying that half of Americans pay no taxes. This is true for income taxes, but not all the others.

In fact Social Security taxes are two times more than all the taxes corporations pay.

Estimated receipts for fiscal year 2008 were $2.66 trillion. The top three sources are:

* $1.25 trillion - Individual income tax
* $927 billion - Social Security/payroll taxes
* $315 billion - Corporate income tax

You may casually dismiss Social Security taxes as not a "real" tax, but $927 billion is a real number, and EVERYONE pays that on their first dollar earned.

You'll notice that the taxes paid by individuals is nearly 7 times what corporations pay. What do you think about that?


bryce1
writes, "The first Bush tax cuts, slanted toward the wealthy, "

Why keep propagating this lie? Across the board is equal. Just because the guy making 1 million per year has more individual dollars left over from his 5% cut than the guy making $100,000 does not mean it is unequal. Just because a guy paying beaucoup taxes pays a little less and the guy paying no taxes still pays no taxes does not make it unequal. You are one of the nine guys that beat up the tenth beer drinker and are worse off for it.

Sandra
I note that none of your Biblical quotes mentioned anything about "government," nor even implied such a thing.

I'm not a Biblical scholar, so do you have one that's something like "Take--at the point of your sword--from the rich and give to those you believe more deserve this bounty and ye shall dwell in the House of the Lord forever"?

Countless studies show that conservatives/Republicans voluntarily donate far more, by percentage of income and in amounts, to charities than do the "caring" Democrats. It's no wonder the Dems count on government to do their "charitable giving."

ProudToBeAmerican on black conservatives
I've often seen you admonish others to read up on history before making broad assertions. You would do well to take your own advice.

As much as you and others would like to believe that blacks vote Dem because of welfare benefits, the fact is that like Reagan and the Democratic Party, blacks didn't leave the GOP...the GOP left them.

Between 1920 and 1960 blacks voted GOP by an average of 35% to 40%. That total dropped to 8% with the GOP nomination of Barry Goldwater in 1964, and the shift was cemented with Nixon's 'Southern Strategy' of 1968.

Further, why would blacks join a party whose 'colorblindness' amounts to ZERO black representation in Washington DC and whose adherents see us all as lazy welfare recipients?


Response to Vitaglubet
You said, "Think about what has happened to us since Roe v Wade."

So, what HAS happened to us? Nothing has "happened to us", except that women have the freedom to make their own reproductive choices without the interference of a bureaucratic police state.

You're ignoring my point
Your rationale is based on INCOME taxes. The first Bush tax cut was funded by a PAYROLL tax surplus. Wealthy earners have the lightest payroll tax burden, and yet they were the biggest beneficiaries of a tax cut rationalized by surplus in payroll taxes.

Obama & Hillary Have Much In Common
According to many news articles, Obama and Hillary and Bill have the same agendas and they are keeping their promises- 1) promote homosexual groups and appoint them into positions of power 2) promote and support abortion and infanticide 3) Obama has Black Panther friends and Hillary defended Black Panthers who committed heinous crimes according to the news 4) They both have been seen in Christian churches and that's extremely interesting since the Christian community doesn't support any of the above crucial issues to the America we knew up to 2008! Say good-bye to your country as you knew it on January 1, 2009 and hang onto your unborn children and grandchildren for life and protect your kids in schools because you may not like what they'll be promoting, but too bad, I guess, because this is what American asked for and haven't seen anything, yet, I do believe!

Redlac
I’ll grant that the Republicans didn’t do enough to stop the runaway mortgage situation. But neither did I see any Republican raving about the competent leadership of the corrupt Franklin Raines at Fannie (as did the brilliant Maxine Waters) nor attacking the regulators who warned of the impending meltdown (as did, among others, Barney Frank). And I did see many Republicans warning that Fannie & Freddie--the "government sponsored entities" that made the whole mess possible--needed to be reined in.

Between Carter’s Community Reinvestment Act and the further mandates injected by the Clinton administration, I do believe the Democrats are MORE responsible for the meltdown than the Republicans, whose sin would seem to be NOT putting on the brakes (over the objections of the Democrats). With Obama’s ACORN trainees “getting in the face” of the bankers, insisting on MORE risky loans, and with Obama’s lawsuits effectuating the same, Obama is not without fault.

Republicans did not have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, as the Democrats MIGHT have this time, and Republicans could not act at will. I don’t know what Treasury and FDIC could have done to counter the efforts of Jimmy, Bill, ACORN, Obama, Dodd, and the rest.

Do The Math
This is why social conservatives just don't get it. Take two quotes from the article above and connect the dots:

"Thirty eight percent of Americans self-identify as conservative..." and "only slightly more than half, 52 percent [of the above 38 percent], said that abortion should be illegal."

Fifty-two percent of 38 percent is 19.76 percent.

If social conservatives think that 19.76 is a majority, it is no wonder we are in such fiscal straits.




Response to Jim and Charlotte
Everybody is 'bothered' by abortion. Nobody likes it. Charlotte is right that the conservatives shoot themselves in the foot with their self-righteous 'take no prisoners' approach to family planning that would have us all living in fear of 'pregnancy police' invading our bedrooms if we so much as use a condom, or a morning-after pill.

Far more 'potential children' are snuffed when fertility clinics discard fertilized but unused embryos than all the abortions in all the first, second, and third world countries in the world put together.

Having an abortion should never be a casual decision, but it MUST remain a choice - an option.

Conservatives would do far more good in this arena if they respected the difficult choices people sometimes have to make in life rather than demonizing everyone, like Planned Parenthood, who tries to help women deal with those choices.

bryce1
Wealthy earners do NOT have the lightest payroll tax burden. You mean "percentage-wise," I'm sure.

But the payroll tax was begun as a forced retirement savings program, NOT just another welfare program. Obama hopes to change it to pure welfare by a tax increase on The Rich, which will NOT be followed by a retirement-payment increase for The Rich.

Already the poor get their payroll taxes refunded to them: the earned income tax credit.

If you want to change Social Security into one more welfare program, please say so. Don't just do it and pretend you didn't.

Again with the CRA
One more time.

Nearly 75% of subprime loans were originated in the secondary market. The CRA mandates only apply to the primary market of commercial banks, and the subprimes in their portfolios are foreclosing at a lower rate than in the secondary market. Likewise, only 20% of the subprimes in the FM/FM come from institutions with CRA mandates.

Beyond the statistic look at the evidence on the ground. In Sept there were 5 major investment banks(secondary market) on Wall Street, today there is one. Meanwhile the only major bank to fail was WaMu which had its' heaviest losses in Orange County, hardly the type of lower income area where CRA mandates are applied.

Rose
1) Nobody is "promoting homosexual groups and giving them positions of power" anymore so than any other group and probably less than most groups. Can you quote a recognized source for that statement?

2)Nobody is promoting abortion and infanticide. They are saying woman should have a right to chose to have an abortion under most circumstances. They are not promoting late term abortions or killing fully formed fetuses.

3)Which Black Panther friends are you referring to and once again cite your sources.

4)Not all Christian churches espouse your views.

You never did answer my previous question. Do you really live in a 5,000 square foot home?

Smoke and mirrors Polly
My point remains the same. The first tax cuts which most benefitted the rich were financed by the surplus in payroll taxes. A worker earning 500k who only pays payroll taxes on 100k has a much lighter payroll tax burden than a worker earning 50k whose entire income is subject to payroll taxes.

Hence, the tax cuts, funded by payroll tax surpluses, redistributed the excess to those who carried least payroll tax burden.

Sandra, I think you're forgetting ...
that the call to live a Christian life is a personal one. Is it okay for me to break into your house and steal what you have if I promise to give what I take to someone who is needy? That's exactly what you are proposing to do only you think it's okay because you're getting the government to take it. It's still theft.

My Christian faith compels ME to sacrifice and do what I'M called to do help those in need. I'm NOT called to force other's to sacrfice for what I think is important. Hopefully, you can see and understand the distinction.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

Clinton for Sec'y of State

is unconstitutional.

A violation of Article 1 Section 6.

Clause 2: No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.

The Emoluments (that's salary for the 52%) for Cabinet members were raised during Hillary's term in the Senate. Now we're gonna have both a prez and sec'y of state who are constitutionally unqualified to hold office.

We certainly are living in interesting times.

Sandra, as long as your quoting ...
scripture from the Bible, please read 2Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man shall not work, he shall not eat."

What do think of this commandment by Paul?

It continues, 3:11-15 We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right. If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

Now THAT'S tough love.

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

social agenda as government
I see it like this, the left uses religious ideas and makes policies from them, the right uses religious ideas more as a platform than a policy that would drain so many resources. The problem, as we all recognize, is that charity begins at home, not at gunpoint. The gay marriage and anti-abortion issues don't translate into the huge drains on the treasury that the nanny state policies do, but the public seems more comfortable being duped into the left's version of quasi-religious government than the right's view. Not many of us appreciate the implication that a certain percentage of the population is in sole possession of "the truth" and that we're immoral or amoral citizens. I also hate spending money on programs that show no appreciable results. It seema to be a no-win situation. GOP/DEM are different sides of the same useless coin.

This article just proves
what we have all known. Most Americans are politically illiterate.

People don’t know the difference between conservative and liberal. They only know what they hear from the MSM. Also, probably most Americans are not really familiar with their party’s political platform. They might listen to what the candidates promise, but they don’t really know the long-term positions that each party has embraced down thru the years.

When people say they vote for the individual and not the party, this is a sure sign of someone who is not paying attention to the party platform. A good example of this is practicing Catholics who embrace the beliefs of their church and then vote for a Democrat because they don't realize that Democrats are always going to support abortion on demand.

If a candidate promises something that is clearly against the party platform, he or she is either lying or in for a huge fight which they will probably lose.

Corporate Income Taxes
Corporations do not print the money they pay in taxes in their basements. Corporations can only get that money from a combination of three sources:

1) By raising prices on the purchasing customer (most likely the middle income earner).

2) By reducing payments to stockholders (again those of us with retirement accounts, pensions, and 401ks are the ones taking the hit - 70 percent of whom are middle income workers).

3) By holding down wages paid and not hiring additional workers (yet again most likely low to middle income workers).

Anyone advancing the idea that corporations don't pay their fair share in taxes doesn't understand the most basic fact about economics: There ain't no free lunch.

Taxes imposed on corporations impede their competitiveness in a global economy. US corporations already face a 39 percent income tax rate, the second highest in the world. This is the main reason our industrial base has fled our shores, not cheaper labor.

Corporate income taxes come right out of the pockets of low and middle income workers; they either increase prices on basic goods (food, gasoline, etc.), raid their retirement savings, or keep their wages low. So, anyone who thinks raising corporate taxes is helping the little guy is ignorant of basic economics.

If John McCain had been able to comprehend and articulate this very simple principle, he'd likely be getting sworn in on January 20th.

Response Patrick
Who runs this bias(ed) Main Stream Media? How does an objective person distinguish your complaints about the MSM from your own paranoia?

What convincing hard evidence can you provide that shows that the 'MSM' does anything more than reflect the collective attitudes and opinions of the American people as a whole, as it should be expected to do? And Robin Williams dissing Bush is not proof of this so-called MSM 'bias'.

FROG and others
The government already pays for many things that some people do not use. For instance:

Public Schools. If I don't have children should I have to pay to send your kids to school?

Libraries: Should I have to pay taxes to support libraries if I don't go to them?

Soccer Fields: Should I have to pay taxes to provide soccer fields or baseball diamonds so your kids can play on them?

When does the government paying for things cross the line between for the common good and stealing?


Very interesting post Hawkeye
Do you know if any legal scholars have weighed in on this?

Sandra, I fear you have ...
far too great an opinion of yourself. You have posted too much unintelligent garbage here to be able to address it all. Unfortunately, I don't have the time.

You quote scripture and attach meaning that isn't there. You make statements that others are unaware of the facts when it is obvious that it is you who is completely uninformed. And it appears that you wish to foist upon the good citizens of these United States, YOUR vision of how things should be, regardless of that outdated old Constitution.

May I submit to that you take some time to read up on things before you make any more posts. I forget the source of the quote, but you may wish to take heed: "Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth (or in this case your keyboard) and remove all doubt."

Tod Kozeluh
Lexington, KY

FROG
I love it when people rant at me.

Which scripture are yor referring to and what meaning did I attach to it that you don't agree with?

What facts am I wrong or uninformed about?

Since you have several comments here already, I doubt you don't have time to answer.

Sandra
The short answer is no, the government shouldn't be confiscating our money to be spent of things for which there is no constitutional authority. I don't know if I speak for most conservatives but, those things you listed are primarily local in nature. Most libraries, soccer fields, and even public schools came into existence without any federal dollars. The simple fact is the federal constitution does not allow for these expenditures. To the extent a state constitution does then, party on dudes. If Massachusetts wants to enact the most benevolent welfare state known to man, then fine, do it but, don't force those choices on the entire country when the constitution clearly forbids it.

BRYCE1

.....You wrote ...

....."Further, why would blacks join a party whose 'colorblindness' amounts to ZERO black representation in Washington DC and whose adherents see us all as lazy welfare recipients?" ...

.....You keep making this same stupid arguement ...

.....The reason black Republicans do not get elected to Congress is because blacks won't vote for them ...when was the last time you voted for a black Republican? ...

.....J.C Watts, black Republican from OK, a very "white" conservative State was elected to Congress for as long as he wanted to run ...while in Congress, JC was not allowed to join the Black Caucus because he was a Republican ...

.....Michael Steele was not elected because blacks refused to vote for him (they voted for his opponent) while every black Democrat in Congress would not be there if not for for "white" votes because only black votes would not be enough ...

.....So to answer your question ...blacks only vote for black Democrats because the Democrats are the Party of Affirmative Action and Welfare ...case closed .....COLOSSUS