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Monday, August 25, 2008
Star Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Morality and liberalism, John Edwards style
by Star Parker
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Certainly we've not heard the last about the John Edwards scandal. Despite the former presidential candidate's public statements of remorse, there remains far too much that doesn't add up.

For instance, we're being asked to swallow a bizarre story that a member of his campaign staff is the father of Edwards' mistress's child. Either John Edwards is not done lying to us or we don't fully appreciate the scope of the behind-the-scenes moral depravity of his self-righteous campaign.

Let's assume for the moment that no legal infractions occurred and that Edwards' lapses were exclusively moral. What is the relevance of this behavior to his qualifications as a political leader and possible president?

Scandals in the private lives of politicians are, sadly, hardly rare. There is a line of reasoning that suggests it's prudish to see them as relevant to the man's fitness for his job.

As put in a recent op-ed by a university journalism professor: "history is full of courageous leaders who in their private lives were terrible and abusive spouses and parents -- depressives, drunks, bullies. Individuals have a way of partitioning their lives, handling one set of duties commendably and another abysmally."

I would argue that for liberals, typified by John Edwards, such partitioning of private from the public is highly unlikely, if not impossible.

Why? Because to be this kind of liberal you've got to stand traditional morality on its head.

Traditional morality is a bottom-up process. It starts at the individual level. The Ten Commandments are addressed to "thou," not "We the People." It begins with individuals taking personal responsibility for the moral tone of their own lives and the social reality that results is the collective product of that individual behavior.

Traditional guidelines are to love our neighbor, our brother. Not mankind. The focus is specific and individual, not vague and abstract.

But liberal politics are top-down. Despite the pretense about being driven by caring about people, unique individuals are at the end of the liberal food chain. Liberal politicians make broad pronouncements about our "social" problems and propose social engineering programs that will allegedly fix them.

Candidate John Edwards called poverty "the great moral issue of our time." And his antidote for solving this moral crisis was massive government programs with the modest objective of eradicating poverty in 30 years.

How particular individuals who happen to be poor actually behave, which is where the real moral issues lie, is of marginal interest to this liberal mindset. Their interest is the grand solution from above that will supposedly change the condition of the poor individuals below, who are viewed as innocent bystanders in their own lives.

It never seemed to interest Edwards that Lyndon Johnson declared war on poverty in 1965, and more than 40 years and $10 trillion or so later, it accomplished nothing.

When I was on welfare, I'd deal with indifferent bureaucrats who had little interest in me personally. They were just doing a job, no different from any civil servant in the post office or the department of motor vehicles. But behind the faceless bureaucracy was a grand liberal vision. For me, it was all irrelevant. It was just a system to work to get a check.

Ironically, Edwards' marketing of his "moral" crusade was his Two Americas pitch. Get people on board by inspiring envy, chucking the 10th commandment out the window. And use political power to finance the massive programs with other people's money, which can be reasonably viewed as theft.

In an interview last year, Edwards was asked what he thought would most outrage Jesus about American life today. His response: "Our selfishness; ... our focus on our own short-term needs." Not only was this guy, in the midst of an adulterous affair, oblivious to his own hypocrisy. He saw himself as master of the universe, who had to lecture the rest of us about how we behave.

So it shouldn't surprise anyone that during a campaign defined by pronouncements of morality and compassion, Edwards was being immoral and cruel to the real individuals around him and closest to him.

For liberals, individuals are footnotes to their own grand schemes and ambitions.

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About The Author
Star Parker is the founder and president of CURE, the Coalition for Urban Renewal & Education, a 501c3 think tank which explores and promotes market based public policy to fight poverty, as well as author of White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner City Decay.
 
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Great article!
Star lays it all out plain in this one. The scummy Edwards lectures us on compassion while treating his own family with cynical contempt. How do we get these evil slimeballs in public life anyway? Does politics simply attract evil people?

This is the morality of the Democrats
Look at all of them Billy Boy Clinton and his immorality, B. Hussien and his association with demostic terrorist William Ayers and Bernadine Dorn, and his deal with Tony Resco, and his hate America church of the Rev. Jemariah Wright. The Democactic party is a scourage of America, and should be destroyed. It is the party of Marxism.

Excellent Article !

Sadly, I have come to the belief that politicians are the scum of the Earth.

Both parties have members that fully exemplify this behavior.

Example:

Why do they spend Millions of Dollars to obtain a job that only pays $265,000 ?

Could it be, because they expect to make Millions in graft, corruption and kickbacks?


I think so.


The Sceptical Rodent









Idiocy on Parade
The mere insinuation by a conservative writer that the Democrats are somehow morally inferior to their Republican counterparts is too absurd to warrant a real counter.
Suffice it to say that the hypocrisy demonstrated by the Craigs, Foleys etc. is even more insulting. Then you have Newt who was sleeping with his secretary while his wife was seriously ill and then slick Johnny McCain who's very ill wife was inconvenient and had outlived her usefulness to his career.
Let's leave it that both parties can offer plenty of examples of the conceit that influences the behavior of men in power. I have more of a problem with McCain hiring Randy Scheunemann as a consultant despite his standing as a lobbyist for the country of Georgia. For $290K he almost succeeded in getting the Georgians into NATO. Pat Buchanan said it pretty well. As an Independent I find this ridiculous glass house mentality by both sides enough reason to join neither party.

I'm ready for this DEBATE
Johnny Diddled a "RICH","YOUNG", "BLOND", "CHICK" every weekend and some weekdays named Cindy for a FULL YEAR. Edwards had a 1 or 2 night stand and confessed to his wife and RENEWED HIS VOWS. Johnny DIVORCED his wife after she had waited faithfully for him for over 5 years.

Hypocrite!!
Johnny had an AFFAIR for a year!
He did not confess to his wife that waited over 5 years for him. He divorced for a young chick with Millions.

Bad behavior analysis
Amazing. Posters here try to justify the bad behavior pointed out in the column by Ms. Parker, by immediately pointing out the bad behavior of someone else, as if that somehow negates whatever point the author is trying to make.

Past bad behaviors by people in both parties have been well publicized. Posters here still bring up McCain's affair nearly 30 years ago and point to it. Yet none pointed to JFK and the various bimbos he ran through the white house. And Teddy Kennedy and the tragic end to one of his flings is well known.

A very good article for all to remember. the tale about hypocrisy and arrogance and those who believe they can get away with anything. Good column, good points.


Yes Anderson. the jnik/rogue
rants are typical lib deflection mechanisms. They can't dump their losers (BJ,Teddy,Barney)like conservatives do, they keep voting for them which says all we need to know about them.

Oh and I almost forgot
Edwards actually improved his stock with the dims by this scandal. Its in their DNA.

Hey, broshow, RogueCowboy, jnik, et al
I agree that repubs have behave badly as well as dems (as if two wrongs make a right), but that's not the issue with me. What I find outrageously hypocritical is when a repub goes astray, it is front page news in every MSM/Liberal paper for weeks on end, and is the lead story on every network news program. But when blow-dry Johnny Edwards does it, the MSM keeps it under wraps for months, only reluctantly going with the story after a supermarket tabloid scoops them on it. Defend John Edwards' behavior all you want, but how can you defend that kind of journalism?

What is hypocrisy to a Democrat?
Isn't it a part of the Democrat playbook to go along to get along? In their bible doesn't it say, "Thou shalt commit falsehood and insist that the lie is true, until you get caught and then and only then shalt thou tell futher half truths" (which are all lies)? I believe I read that in the Cherry Picker's New Global version, where it also read in the footnotes: parts of this book may or may not be true and determined by consensus of the party elites.

Liberal expressions!
The wonderful thing about liberal moral and principles is how it comes with such elasticity so that it can be stretched to the point of not even being recognized anymore when the need arises, and then just like that it can snap back into shape without detection or anyone else being the wiser. It's like all of the wonder of a child playing 'hide and seek' standing in the middle of a room with a sheet over its head saying, "You can't find me!" It just warms my heart - liberal morals that is. In the same child like fashion where the one justifies battering a child by saying, "He hit me first," the Dems have cornered the market on their ability to point out their list of Republican sinners, while it's not only unworthy of news coverage when a liberal does wrong - it's even justifiable. The Republican (Devil) made them do it!

Liberal hypocrisy: More than the MSM
Beyond the MSM covering for the left, the liberal establishment does not punish leftist miscreants.

I suppose that since the Dems do not claim to be moral, (after all, there is no right or wrong), they can never be hypocrites.

Only those who strive to live by a set of rules and fail can be accused of hypocrisy.

Not about that
You libs are missing the point of Star's argument. Sure, plenty of Republicans have behaved badly. They're human. But this doesn't change the fact that conservatism is based on the idea of individual responsibility and virtue, which, when practiced, radiates out to create a better society. Meanwhile, liberalism attempts to treat society (in the abstract) first, without taking individual behavior into account. This top-down approach simply doesn't work. THAT'S the point of the article.

Why so much about Edwards?
Because, but for the grace of God, this clown could have been President. During a campaign for the highest office in the country, he had the arrogance to think he was invisible in his personal life. Had it been left to the MSM, he would have been. Usually, when a Republican gets caught in an obscene moment, he is run off by the Republicans, who are heartedly supported by the holy Democrats. Sen. Craig has been a sorry exception. However, it is highly doubtful, despite whatever story about his future Craig is spinning today, that Craig will be re-elected. Sen. Vitter is another pathetic exception. But then, with $90,000.00 of cold hard cash in his freezer, Congressman Jefferson is going strong. If he keeps getting his trial set off, he may die in office.

Ratas
I see you, Apollo, and other intelligent posters have not had the problems I have suffered with TH. If I have to go through one more handle it will be a personal comment to TH and its monitors.
The Former Constant Gardener

indyconantidim
Even Teddy and Kerry could carry Mass. for Obama. Do you think Obiden will make a difference?

Where in Texas are you? You can give a general geographical area so Sugary Sweet can't locate you!

BROSHOW
said it best---our political system as now constituted makes it the equivalent of a camel passing through the eye of a needle for ANY politician to escape unsullied.
From the huge perks of office (any office), to the obvious sexua attraction of power and money, our system defies any one in office to walk the straight and narrow, let alone accomplish any of the goals that most of them spout in their original campaigns ("I'm for change; smaller and less intrusive government; help for the middle class; tax reform; etc., ad infinitum").
It has nothing to do with being Republican, Democratic, Independent, or Communist. It has everything to do with being human.
These people are (mostly) intelligent folks who have had successful careers up to the point of being elected....there must be something added to the drinking water of the halls of congress which leads so many of our "best and brightest" down the road of idiotic behavior.
VOTE 'EM ALL OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm surprised the left even
cares about infidelity.

A current actress just took a passion for some European guy with a wife and several children, one an infant, and they just boogied off to the accolades of the tabloids and the actress' announcement that she didn't mine being a homewrecker. Since she isn't fat and always wears makeup in public, the 'bloids have no reason to find anything morally disagreeable in her behavior, let alone his.

I would almost expect the libs to inform Elizabeth Edwards she's too old and sick to be a wife--letters to People affirmed that Matthew Broderick deserved better than "old" Sarah Jessica Parker--and should just get out of the way for her virile still sexually predacious husband.

After all, the sexual revolution that has helped disintegrate minority communities is also busy letting boyfriends pressure junior-high girls into *threesomes* and bestality in the name of emulating internet pornos.

Seniors are celebrating graduations by posting sex acts on the net--uninformed of how such acts, if not depraved, can deprive them of later careers in medicine, law, and education.

John Edwards, reprehensible as he is philosophically, only lived out the sexual rev. promise of no-strrings-attached *liberation* without consequences--which the MSM almost gave him an entire pass on while, at least, the tabloids got the story first and right.

Rogue Cowboy
John McCain and his first wife are friends.
John McCain says that the biggest regret of his life was the end of his first marriage and his behavior at the time. He ADMITS it.He takes responsibility for it.He was not running for President 30 plus years ago.And had just returned from 51/2 years in a prison camp.That might mess with your head a bit and skew your behavior, don't ya think?

In contrast...,Edwards WAS running for President. His wife has cancer . AND he has three children who have to bear his shame.When the press confronted him he hid in a bathroom!

Morality
Most politicians get into office with slick promises that they have no intention of keeping. Actually they generally have NO WAY of keeping them. This makes them immoral from the time of their campaign and election.

Hey, Jaybird, the answer is yes. Where else can you make over $200,000 a year for no real work and the opportunity to steal and chisel the American people.

Politicians are hos.

Edwards affair is chump change
John Edwards is a dishonest lawyer who made personal millions by convincing juries to express their sympathy for women who miscarried or bore deformed children by stealing money from doctors, as though the doctors are God and caused the deformities. He is a man with no conscience.

Nobody who knows how to read a man's eyes doubted for a second that Edwards not only lacked a conscience, but was probably sexually immoral in the extreme. His posturing about morality was just an extension of the posturing of his career -- pretending to defend the angels in order to make himself rich -- and his affair is just the tip of a completely corrupt iceberg.

Much better men than Edwards have been trapped in an affair; I'll wager a fair sum of money that this wasn't the first (or the second, or the third) and that
Mrs. Edwards knew all about them.

We are all well rid of these poisonous fakes.

oh my
I like the way Inkling revival put it. I have a hard time not chuckling about the whole tawdry mess. The only bright point to me is that NewsWeek gave Edwards their first perfect 100 on the shame scale. That small thing may have been their most honest moment in a long time.

There's a difference`
People who are saying "the Republicans are just as bad" are missing the point of the article (or deliberately ignoring it, if they're Democrats.)

Human beings behave like human beings, so it's never a surprise when one of them commits a sin. However, one party recognizes the importance of individual character and builds policy from the ground up, attempting first to reform the inherently corrupt human character.

The other party does not even acknowledge that personal sin exists (to them, "we're all human" merely excuses their weakness, conferring no obligation to try to reform themselves) and builds policies based on broad, purely theoretical "moral" concerns that have no effect in the real world because they're based on a faulty model of human character.

The former party -- the Republicans -- punish lapses among themselves because they know the struggle to reform one's character is the central story of humanity, and must be continued. Their policies, based on a sound understanding of human character, make sense.

The Democrats reward moral failings among themselves. Their public proclamations of dismay are theater, for the sole purpose of gaining partisan advantage.

They are not the same.

Start, Thanks for the perspective of
your wonderful article.

In this context, Michelle Obama's comment that for the first time in her adult life she was proud of her country has an interesting texture. That comment was widely criticized, rightly so, because there is much to be proud of in America and she couldn't find any of it. The message missed by the MSM in her statement is that it is up to Washington to make Americans proud of their country. How sad that Michelle thinks it is up to the chattering class in Washington to make us proud of our country.

She clearly believes that the American people aren't generous, and so Washington must help people in need. As you note inserting Washington into such transactions (as usual) does harm.

Something is lost when one donates (actually gives their hard earned money to the government under threat of violence) through Washington. It creates corruption, waste, and fraud. It is used for things – say, subsidize partial birth abortion -- that are morally repugnant to many. In contrast individuals donating to charity ensure that the money is well used.

Even more important is that Washington takes away the joy of giving. Donating directly to someone often gives the donor more than the recipient – that joy of giving. It reinforces our humanity and connection to community. A "donation" through Washington denies that pleasure. Thus the do-gooders of the nanny state steal pleasure from generous people.

Finally, Americans donate less and do less good as a consequence of Washington’s interference. Washington takes so much money for God knows what that there is little left to donate. Americans believe they’ve already given to charity through Washington and that government should be taking care of the problems. Thus politicians trying to do good in Washington (charitably) or trying to buy votes with taxpayer money (realistically) do great harm to this country.

Edwards, Liberalism
All the posters who point out Republican foibles are correct. I defend no man who cheats on his wife regardless of party. But as aluded to in some of these posts it seems that Republicans handle these scandals better. They do not defend the actions and in most cases the political career of the man is over. As to Star's other point she is dead on. Liberalism treats compasssion impersonally from top down. It has been reported that there is more personal charitable giving in the more conservative states. I believe this to be true. The liberals would rather have the government handle it even though the government will be more inefficient in the results. But at least they can claim to be doing something without opening their own wallets. I love it when the liberals say they only want to raise taxes on the rich. Usually we middle class are the ones who get socked.

Look
at all the help Hussein gives to his brother.

Your Cheatin' Heart
Many politicians have cheated on their wives or had some deep dark secret lurking in their closets, just like many average citizens do the same, but until former President Clinton came out of the closet by media exposure as well as a former Congressman who's alleged 18-year-old friend was found dead and buried in a park which lost all attention in the media as not important, I guess, which is a sad commentary for our country, the fact is that some are forgiven and others aren't forgiven. I heard a popular radio talk show host say that Edward's wife had some blame and wasn't totally innocent - Good grief, how would a male radio talk show host know what it feels like to be married with children and have a horrible illness while her husband allegedly has a fling and allegedly lied end up blamed for any of a husband's immoral acts or lies? The pain of his wife and his kid's knowledge that their dad allegedly may have a baby on top of that? Isn't the pain and the embarrassment in his wife's heart and spirit enough to prevent such cruel and ridiculously stupid comments by a man who sits on the radio and makes comments without much thought about what he's saying on such a matter and who wouldn't have a clue how a wife and her children are torn up or feel by such pain, as well as the lies. Some times, silence is golden!

Somebody is not thinking clearly
Rose wrote: "the fact is that some are forgiven and others aren't forgiven." She was referring to Rep. Gary Conditt and President Bill Clinton.

Rose, Conditt and Clinton were not exposed for adultery. Conditt committed a MURDER, a felony. Clinton committed PERJURY, a felony, and he bribed, encouraged, coached, and threatened others into committing perjury as well, which is also a felony (coaching others to do it).

In general, public figures who argue publicly on the basis of morals are subject to scrutiny of their morals. However, the real, hard looks are saved for those who commit crimes. Adultery, while reprehensible and destructive, is not a crime. Perjury and murder are.

Silence is golden
Parker is probably right. We probably haven't heard the last of Huntergate.

But we may heard the last of this insufferable poseur.

He won't be speaking at the Democrat convention, and that means we get the added bonus of not having to hear the talking heads on the liberal news issues platitudes about what a great defender of the poor he is, blah, blah, blah...

The left won't admit it but a similar thing occured after Clinton got caught with his pants down. Despite their 'victory' in the Senate impeachment trial over those evil Republicans the fact remains that after Monicagate Clinton's career as dominant force in US politics was over. And we didn't have to hear about him every day from the lib media.

Let's hope Edwards, who was never a dominant force, is now so marginalized that all we ever hear about him from now on is Huntergate.

@Impeachbush
Please do us the favor of reading the posts before your own; every point you've made or attempted to make save one (the Hillary bit at the end) has already been addressed in some degree. And considering what I have read about McCain's history in office, I'd be willing to state that your comparison of conservatives to liberals is residing on shaky (presumably ~7,7.1 richtor) ground, as McCain is not a conservative by the general definition. McCain is a republican - he has a particular political affiliation. Republican and Conservative are descriptive words giving unique information; it is inappropriate to use, either directly or by implication, the one as an alias for the other.

Face it--
As an acquaintance of mine has indicated that he believes that most , but not all, politicians are one step lower than drug pushers or street walkers. Unfortunately we still usually have these types to vote for. So what is the answer?? Do we "draft" someone who we know is pro America 100%, who by the way might not want the position or do we continue down the same road with self serving parasites on every ballot?? What is the answer??

Great article as usual by Star.

impeachbush
And just what's wrong with McCain using Hillary's own words spoken unfavorably against Obama in HIS campaign ads? Hillary knew darn well when she spoke those words that if Obama wound up as the Democrats' nominee, those words would re-appear in the campaign ads of whoever wound up as the Republicans' nominee. If a politician doesn't want to be held accountable for his/her public statements and votes, then that person should do everyone a favor and pick a different profession than elected office.

If you have a problem with the words Hillary (and for that matter, Joe Biden) spoke against Obama in their campaigns (and for that matter, favorably about McCain), then take that up with Hillary and Biden. Only to liberals is it considered dirty politics to - GASP! - actually have the words THEY THEMSELVES SPOKE remembered by others once they've been caught in their lies. I guess you're one of those who thinks it was unforgiveable for the American public to actually REMEMBER those very famous 11 words Bill Clinton spoke to the nation on January 21, 1998 - ON NATIONAL TV! Well, I say, if you don't want to be embarassed by what comes out of your own mouth, then keep it zipped in the first place. Of course, this is one of the biggest pathologies with liberals today: they love to hear themselves talk, so they can't keep their mouths shut.

Excellent article
Miss Parker. Truly Edwards narcissistic selfish needs were put above his family and their needs, especially his wife's. This is a vile man IMHO. But, that is what most democrats are, vile.

I agree with yoru friend
"most, but not all, politicians are one step lower than drug pushers or street walkers."

I agree: after all, pushers and street walkers actually provide the product or service that you pay them for. Sadly, this is not true of most politicians.

Excellent article
I was particularly struck with the difference between individual and collective (government mandated) morality. "Traditional morality is a bottom-up process. It starts at the individual level. ...It begins with individuals taking personal responsibility for the moral tone of their own lives and the social reality that results is the collective product of that individual behavior."

Welfare doesn't change lives because the government simply mandates the transfer of money, but there's no individual involvement. Our nation was founded on Self-Reliance and doing the right thing person to person. Star shows great wisdom here!


One Difference ...
between liberals and conservatives is that conservatives basically believe that you marry for life. Sometimes it doesn't work out but you try.

The liberals believe that marriage is only a convienience to be used until something better comes along. It is perfectly okay for the men to have affairs. (It is still up in the air as to whether it is okay for women's affairs.)

Grumpy:
There has been several polls taken as to respect for various professions, including streetwalkers, etc.

The very bottom are politicians and lawyers. Sometimes one and then the other are on the bottom. The third from the bottom is journalists. All three are behind streetwalkers, etc.

One journalist explained why this is so. All three professions make their living by lying.

Standshisground and impeach bush:
It is only true mudslinging when the opponent tells the TRUTH about you.

pols, "drug pushers" & "street walkers"
Below is the understandable yet unfortunate insult. A predictable expression of frustration.

It is LEGITIMATE to be disappointed at the HUMAN NATURE of our politicians.

It is NOT LEGITIMATE to put THEM (OR George Washington, OR Jefferson, etc etc) at the level of the aforementioned modern-day scum.

Our founding fathers found a REALLY GOOD (no, that phrase is not to be found in the Constitution...ha!) mix of reponsibilities/powers and limits thereto.... That these are regularly trotted out by the press is nothing new (how else would they sell papers...report the weather?!), nor nothing to disparage/discredit "their" (read: our) system.

Dissent is healthy and necessary to the degree it remains constructive to the - pardon, but I lack better words at the moment - American body politic (that is to say: "Socialism? No thanks!"). Please remember this when making such yammering statements!

Key Difference
Ms. Parker tries to make a point without saying so. Most conservatives believe that mankind is corrupted unperfectable; thus we expect failings of one sort or another amongst all of us including our leaders. Most liberals beleive that man is perfectable given enough education or toys and thus must define morality downward in order to make it work.

Guess who's viewpoint the argument over whose John is worse supports.

impeachbush:
Out of curiosity, what is your main problem with Bush? He certainly has made mistakes but you seem to have far more issues than that for your dislike.

As far as I can see, he hasn't done a much worse job than any other President that I've lived through. Yet you seem to believe he is the worst one in history.

Why do you believe so?

45caliber
GREAT interpretation of what mudslining in politics really is!

jnik: So, it's okay to be ...
a lying, cheating, stealing, drunken, degenerate liberal.

The Democrat party only punishes (maybe) the revealed miscreant if there is political fallout.

They have to hide their true beliefs from the people, and the MSM is complicit in this deception.

Are these _your_ personal values? Are you proud to point to these liberals and wish you and your children would model their behavior on these people?

Big ideas need to start small
John Edwards, for his moral shortcomings, has his heart in the right place. But like all liberals he thinks poverty can be overcome only by massive government investment. The Great Society has taught us that isn't true. When you build a massive bureaucracy for something it tends to get worse. And it gives the government more power over peoples' lives, in this case the desperately poor. And despite how bad these programs perform, we as taxpayers keep footing the bill. And people like John Edwards thinks it's worth it. But any true believer in freedom and democracy wouldn't help people by throwing money at them. They would help people by leaving them alone and protecting their individual rights.

Impeach Bush
Where do you get your "FACTS"? My God...,you are broken and cannot be fixed.

There is nothing to be said to you that will change your thinking. But I do know that you're just wrong.

impeachbush and 45caliber
impeachbush:

Let me see if you're consistent on this point. You want to put all the blame on George Bush for the 9/11 attack. All right, so be it. One question: if Obama is elected, if there is a major terrorist attack on American soil on or after 9/11/2009, I assume that by the same measure you hold George Bush 100% responsible for the 9/11/2001 attack, you will likewise hold Barack Obama 100% responsible for any major terrorist attack committed during his watch as president on or after 9/11/2009, RIGHT?

45caliber:

Well, I said a couple of days ago I was looking forward to the Democratic convention. Well, after a couple of minutes of listening to Nancy Pelosi, I HAD to turn the sound off: the needle on my crap detector was threatening to explode!

LC
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if impeachbush turned out to be Cindy Sheehan's long-lost twin sister!

To impeachbush
New Orleans was not right before 2005. People should not live below sea level in the hurricane zone.

impeachbush
Take it from someone who lives back and forth in two states, was born in New Orleans, and is in New Orleans frequently, New Orleans' problems are not due to Katrina. Get over it. You didn't have to live with it before Katrina, during Katrina, or after Katrina, so you have no standing to judge or complain.

Political morality
Gee. All of you are so pious. How many others are each of you having affairs with? And for Caliber45. Both President Bush were elected to be "deciders" and make those decisions. It is only the opinion of the losers that they were wrong. Between 1992 and 2000, my wife and I lost $4,200 a year under Clinton's "so called balanced" budget. By predicting a large increase in taxes, then settling for less that the highest, but still higher than preceding year, is not a balanced budget. Even chopping the middle grades (officers and enlisted) out the military, not buying needed equipment to replace obsolete, and chopping the intelligence services is not good management. Richard Clarke had info but Clinton would not act on it. Bush administration was in office from January 2001 until September 2001 so hardly had time to act. Osama and his stooges did their training and planning on the Democrat watch. Jimmy Carter proved that "talking" to terroristic nations does not work in Iran and Panama. And we still have problems there. Putting anti-missile missiles in Poland corrects mistake Kennedy made in removing our missiles from middle east and Europe. We would not be fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq if that mistake was not made, and we also have had Castro borthers with Communism 200 miles off our shores. So dont'g get your panties in a wad. Both parties can and do make mistakes. So start voting more intelligently. Only wrong vote I ever made was for Clinton first time.

Political morality
Gee. All of you are so pious. How many others are each of you having affairs with? And for Caliber45. Both President Bush were elected to be "deciders" and make those decisions. It is only the opinion of the losers that they were wrong. Between 1992 and 2000, my wife and I lost $4,200 a year under Clinton's "so called balanced" budget. By predicting a large increase in taxes, then settling for less that the highest, but still higher than preceding year, is not a balanced budget. Even chopping the middle grades (officers and enlisted) out the military, not buying needed equipment to replace obsolete, and chopping the intelligence services is not good management. Richard Clarke had info but Clinton would not act on it. Bush administration was in office from January 2001 until September 2001 so hardly had time to act. Osama and his stooges did their training and planning on the Democrat watch. Jimmy Carter proved that "talking" to terroristic nations does not work in Iran and Panama. And we still have problems there. Putting anti-missile missiles in Poland corrects mistake Kennedy made in removing our missiles from middle east and Europe. We would not be fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq if that mistake was not made, and we also have had Castro borthers with Communism 200 miles off our shores. So dont'g get your panties in a wad. Both parties can and do make mistakes. So start voting more intelligently. Only wrong vote I ever made was for Clinton first time.

impeachbush (and others)
You said: "Where in the world have you been these past 8 years, besides in TEXAS? The man has destroyed our country. Look at Wall Street, look at the real estate industry, look at the oil industry, look at our manufacturing base, look at our devastated military, look at our devastated Constitution--what have I missed? Oh yeah, look at Ground Zero in NYC. He and his incompetent "adult" administration closed their eyes and ears to every warning that was given to them leading up to the fateful day of 9/11/01! Instead of having the Midas touch, this idiot literally destroys everything he touches! He destroyed your State while he was its Governor, leaving it in debt up to the gazoo"

I was asking for your proof. So far all I've ever seen you make are statements. See my reply on the next post.




impeachbush (and others) 2
Wall Street seems to be doing fine. It is as good or better than it has ever been. It varies more but that is normal, not destruction. I learned a long time ago that buying stocks are a gamble, not a sure thing.

The real estate industry problem is due to Clinton. He had a bill passed that requried the banking industry to loan to people who normally would not get loans. And those are the problem people now.

What exact oil industry problem are you talking about? The price of gas? That is due to the Mid-East, not anyone in this country, unless you wanted Bush to declare war on them.

Our manufacturing base is doing much better that it was. I've had a job the last several years where before I didn't.

Our devestated military has nothing to do with Bush and everything to do with Clinton. Clinton almost shut it down and didn't bother to replace their old equipment. Bush just inherited it and has actually built it back up some.

Our devestated Constitution? Are you sure you haven't mistaken Clinton for Bush? Clinton himself made the statement that the Supreme Court wouldn't let him do what he wanted so he had to come up with some other way to get around them. Clinton and the Dems are the ones who are blowing up the Freedom of Religion, the 2nd Amendment, the Freedom of the Press, the Right to Assemble (without a government permit), etc. About the only amendment that I know he and they didn't break was putting troops in private homes. If you listen to the news, the Dems are very worried that Bush might appoint a pro-Constitution judge rather than one who believes the Constitution should be ignored.

The Trade Towers? Do you have proof that Bush and party ignored warnings on it? I've not yet seen any.

Texas is in debt? News to me. Last I heard we had about 14 billion to the good, unlike California, for instance. The big argument here is whether to give it back to the voters or save it for the future.

impeachbush:
You still failed to provide any proof on anything. So Bush was handed a report about Bin Laden. It certainly didn't list the World Trade Center - and the U.S. is a big place. What exactly was he supposed to have done to stop it? As far as the FBI being in New York, this is the first I've heard of it. I always thought they were there just like they are in other cities. Who and how many went? Where were they at the time of the attack? What were they supposed to do about the airplanes?

You failed to even address any of my other comments with the exception of saying everyone was blaming everything on Clinton. Unlike you, I've been watching him since he was in college telling all the girls there that they'd better go to bed with him or he'd remember it when he was President and get back at them. I'm not saying he was the worst President in history but he was certainly the crookedest one. I only blame him for things he did - which covers nearly every major felony the laws list. So did Hillary for that matter.

Star is a light in the darkness
She has really distilled some of the most pertinent facts about this episode. Character counts. MORE than anything else. If a person can lie, cheat, & harm those he claims to love, what will his conscience say about harming the masses?
It needs to be acknowledged, and I challenge atheists, who have any integrity, to prove otherwise, that there is a substitute for the 10 Commandments when it comes to a guide for personal morality. Even if you don't believe in God, you can see the result in every corner of the world when we ignore the basic rules of decency.
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