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Monday, March 31, 2008
Star Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
An open letter to John McCain
by Star Parker
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Dear John McCain,

Every relationship requires effort. I want to do my part. But there needs to be common ground to start with, and you're making it harder and harder for me to find where it is.

I'm an optimist and a woman of faith. I believe we are strong because our nation is meant to be, as President Reagan often reminded us, a "shining city upon a hill."

You spoke in Los Angeles the other day about our country and its place in the world. You talked about political, economic and military strength, and international citizenship.

I strained to hear you mention our moral uniqueness -- our being that "city on a hill." But I heard not a hint.

President Nixon once observed that Americans often make the mistake of thinking that conflict in the world is the result of misunderstanding rather than difference of belief.

Because you seem not to appreciate that our beliefs make us different, you suggest more talk. You propose more international compacts and organizations, as if we don't have enough.

What exactly are the values we would share with others in your concept for a League of Democracies? The European Union countries can't even agree on a common constitution.

A 2000 survey of the United States and 14 Western European democracies checked the percentage of residents who never attend church. France was highest, with 60 percent, followed by Great Britain (55 percent), Belgium (46 percent) and West Germany (30 percent). The European mean was 36, more than twice as high as in the United States, which had 16 percent.

In 2004, the European Union rejected Italy's nominee for justice minister of the EU, Rocco Buttiglione, because he is an open Christian who condemned homosexuality.

We, of course, should strive for peace and seek commerce with all. But let's not forget who we are and seek some pseudo-tranquility by compromising ourselves and becoming more like others. Remember, John, "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

I, like most Americans, share your deep concern about the threat of terrorism and radical Islam. I agree we should engage this aggressively.

But I'm afraid I don't share your sense that this is the "transcendent threat" of our time.

John, half our country today is ready to vote for a presidential candidate, be it a white woman or a black man, who favors promiscuous use of government power to pretend to solve every domestic challenge we have.

Both these candidates want to nationalize health care, raise taxes to deal with our Social Security and Medicare crises, and onerously regulate the mortgage industry. Both condemned the Supreme Court's decision banning partial birth abortion. Both reject the only hope we have for addressing our education problems: school choice.

I appreciate your concern for how we are treating the 600 or so detainees we are holding in Guantanamo.

But have you thought about the 2.3 million of our own citizens -- 1 percent of our adult population -- in prison? Ten percent of black men between 20 and 34 are in prison or jail.

If millions of low-income Americans would hear a genuine and aggressive message from our leadership about how conservative and traditional values address their problems, they'd be less susceptible to destructive illusions peddled by those like the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

While you spoke in Los Angeles, Social Security and Medicare trustees issued a report. These systems are bankrupt and in the red by more than $50 trillion -- several times our gross domestic product. This is more than a cash flow problem; this is a misuse of government crisis. Is this not a "transcendent threat?"

Our incidence of out-of-wedlock births -- almost 40 percent -- is 10 times greater than 50 years ago. Do you see breakdown of the American family as a "transcendent threat?"

How can we light the path to freedom for others when we are so clearly losing the way ourselves? I think the "transcendent threat" is the dimming of that light from the city on the hill.

I hope you can still listen, John.

Your fellow conservative,

Star

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About The Author
Star Parker is the founder and president of CURE, the Coalition for Urban Renewal & Education, a 501c3 think tank which explores and promotes market based public policy to fight poverty, as well as author of White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner City Decay.
 
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Like democracy
John McCain is a mess, but better than the rest.

AAaaahhhh.

If you support Obama your low income?
Where have people in the name of the Reverend Wrights tapes gone and become destructive. Have there been riots because of Reverend Wright? Who has suffered that we know about other then Obama because of his association to the Reverend. To imply it's only the low income people who could be susceptible by Reverend Wright, due to their low income sounds like we're dividing the classes of peoples intelligence, based on the monies they make. At what level would you consider to be low level. Would it be below fifty thousand a year salary. Or would it be below thirty thousand a year salary. The media hasn't reported any destructive behavior, by anyone who was exposed to Reverend Wright, so how did you arrive at the conclusion that it had to be low income people who were the only ones susceptible to Reverend Wright. Governor Richardson endorsed Obama, is he low income in your eyes. Is he susceptible to destructive illusion because of Reverend Wright. What about all of the other endorsements Obama has gotten. Not to mention the Super Delegates and the voters. How do we know if their low income, and how do we know if their susceptible to destructive illusions because of the tapes of Reverend Wright. That is what you based your susceptible theory on isn't it, the tapes. It has to be the tapes your basing everything on, because all other low income people who aren't memebers of the Reverends church have to also fall into your theory about destructive illusions. In other words, only if your low income and just happen to listen to the Reverend Wrights tapes makes that person susceptible to destructive illustions?

Star,
What a thoughtful and well written piece. I applaud your effort but I am afraid it will fall on deaf ears. Mccain does not share Reagans or our vision of America. He is a political opportunist who values media and elitist adulation. The spiraling demise of the middle class and the destruction of our culture are not what he is all about. While we all agree that terrorism is a threat, so too we should agree that the financial collapse of our nation is also a threat. How can we protect ourselves when we manufacture nothing, our dollar is falling and our debt is owned by other countries? How do we morally raise our children in a society that does not value life, frowns upon the traditional family and belittles those who believe in God? How do we light the torch of freedom in the world when we have politicians trying to deny ours?

I am afraid, Star, that the light from the shining city upon a hill is not seen by someone who is blinded by ambition.

McCain's fate is sealed
Iraq is now a civil war even by the admin's standards. Iraq as the frontline of the WOT, and the success of the military 'surge' are central to McCain's campaign. Both have been revealed for the house of cards they are.

She didn't hit the half
of how bad his speech was. Here's a link to the full text on his own website: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/Speeches/872473dd -9ccb-4ab4-9d0d-ec54f0e7a497.htm

Read it; it could have been co-authored with Obama, Hillary, Kennedy, Gore, Schwarzy, and Lieberman.

Getting approval from foreign nations for our own military ventures (a la Kerry); globull warming BS (a la Gore); no Alaskan oil development (all the libs); amnesty (again) for illegal aliens; nothing about the economy (of which he admits he knows virtually nothing); and on and on and on.

The guy's a liberal running in the wrong party; Schwarzenegger Redux; a Lieberman clone.

Why is the GOP running this numbnuts?

Excellent Article
John McCain's idea of reaching out is this: He reaches out to liberal Dems and Conservatives reach out to him.

The man is mediocre at best. He gives the impression of not quite having all his faculties. I'm not saying he's senile but he's not sharp, either.

When he gives a speech he's a crashing bore. He may end up winning in November but it will not be with my vote. Still waiting for him to address McCain/Kennedy.

an Obligation of EVERY CITIZEN

What McCain and every GOP contender up and down the line must get back to is the facts that made the USA Great.

1. 100% personal responsibility in all things.

A. get an education,
B. get a job, show up on time, do your job
C. earn promotions and advancements
D. LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS
c. MAKE SACRIFICES to save and invest
D. STOP HAVING KIDS YOU CANNOT AFFORD
E. Obey all of the laws
F. Respect the rights of all other citizens
G. Keep your property in good repair and clean
H. Keep the public square clean
I. Stop excesses which destroy the lives of others.
J. Meet every single one of your obligations
K. BE factually informed.
L. Be prepared to pay for your criminal conduct

McCain is a liberal
As a conservative who will I support? Not the liberal McCain'

A Strong USA deters evil

Before we go chasing evil around the world
to snuff it out.

McCain needs to get back to basics.
A strong USA will deter most evil attacks.

Strength:
Inspire every citizen to take 100% personal responsibility in all things.
Stop making everyone else pay for the criminal conduct of other citizens
Stop making everyone else pay for those who make bad choices and dump all of their misery on the rest of society.
Economic Strength.
Military Strength.

the USA has lost its way. 50% of USA Citizens have become parasites on the other 50%.


ENOUGH of Reagan , turn the page

Lawdy: We are sick and tired of all of the
Reagan tripe:

Turn the PAGE OR GET A NEW BOOK.

WE NEED LEADERSHIP: Not just someone to blow up the evil guys.

We need someone with the guts to enforce every single law in this country.

We need someone to say::: ENOUGH of the parasites who dump their self made misery on the rest of the citizens:

WE need our BASIC RIGHTS back.
Stop the assault on our personal daily lives.
Stop the assault on our religious freedoms.
Stop the assault by the parasites on the responsible citizens.
Stop the assault against this nation by illegals.
Stop the psycho hype, fabrication, distortion, exaggeration of issues that affect less than 1% of our citizens.
Stop the destruction of our economy with phantom energy policies and global warming policies.
STOP turning control of our nation over to the corrupt rape for rice UN.

Deterring Evil?
Iran is frequently cited as the exemplar of an evil regime on these pages. Events of the last week have revealed that the mission in Iraq has degenerated into a civil war in which all of the warring factions have strong ties to Iran. To make matters worse, we have now taken sides, and the side we picked is the one with the strongest connections to Iran.

Events of the last week have changed everything. Two central pillars of the McCain are the success of the 'surge', and Iraq as the frontline in the WOT. Neither can now be argued. Iraq is a mess, and it's just getting messier in the leadup to the election.

FUNNY ELIOT SPITZER VIDEO
Check out this funny video on youtube. Dr. Phil comes to the rescue to cure Eliot Spitzer of his "issues". It's hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1iZH9MOEkk

The Relationship
In addition to having common ground or not, it is difficult to have a relationship with someone you feel has stabbed you in the back (or "slapped you in the face", or whatever) repeatedly in recent years. Then, when you're really trying to make the relationship work, for the good of the country, despite your doubts and difficulties, they do it again and again by appointing people and associating with people who are the antithesis of almost everything you believe in and that you think is right and necessary for the country.

PLEASE!
Will you people PLEASE get off of the Democratic Talking Points Memo about Iraq? Gawd, we've heard it so many times anyone over the age of 8 has to know it's the best use of propoganda since Nazi Germany! Holy cow people, think for yourselves, will you, and stop quoting Murtha, Pelosi, Reid, et. al. on the war! Maybe, just maybe, the Democrats are telling you the truth about the war while lying about EVERYTHING else, but doesn't that take a certain amount of cognitive dissonance to believe? When was the last time the liberals were right about anything?

WHO?
Mc KAIN - working with libs on making US look like 3rd world countries

Ms. Parker
You speak for me. It looks like McCain has the top of the ticket locked up. Would you consider the VP slot?

maverick
Check the statistics on the number of people killed and damaged by black on white crime. Men like Wright increase and rationalize this behavior. Its quite as rotten as the folks 200 years ago who said slavery was perfectly OK because black people were inferior. Ideas influence actions. The ideas don't have to be accurate.


McCain and the CFR
The speech in LA comes right from the CFR manifesto for one world government. That manifiesto calls for an American population to be brought to it's knees, begging the international elites to give us back our security and prosperity. McCain, like Bush, Cheney, and the Democrats are traitors to America as we know it, but you see, they believe we'll thank them in the end.

McAmnesty's Religion Flip; Bomb Iran
At the start of his campaign last year, McAmnesty sought and received the endorsement of the late reverend Falwell, famous for his assertions that "God does not hear the prayers of a Jew," and "Jews do not go to heaven." This year McAmnesty sought and received the endorsement of reverend Hagee, a notorious hater of Catholics and Jews. In addition, McAmnesty recently switched from Episcopalian (my sect) to Baptist. Isn't it a little strange to be switching religions at age 70, unless the reverends offered him a "convert or die politically" choice. Let's have a full media investigation of that, and also the sanctity of Edmund-Hillary.

While you're at it, ask Beach Boy McAmnesty why he thinks "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" is funny. I think it's exactly how his "foreign policy" would be conducted. STRAIGHT TALK!

If John doesn't believe

If John McCain doesn't believe than acts of hosility to Christians in the public square will increase. Our rights as parents will continue to erode through the public school, as it is Christians are penalized by having to pay the cost of public education while they pay for their own child's religious or private education.

Nor will we ever get school choice but instead we'll continue to be economically punished for trying to live our faith.

The coldness, the inhumanity that is acceptable, tolerated as part of life will increase.


We all want to get
our house in order as Star suggests.
It sure as hell isn't going to happen with either of these two democrats.
They will never fix SS, because it gives them governmental power over us, same for Medicare and all the other programs that are breaking the bank. Now they want to add more. As B2slim stated half of the citizens live off the other half. We are being enslaved to the gov't program by program, most of which are useless sops to keep order amongst those who view themselves as professional victims.

This was brought to us by liberals and their useless idealogy, they can't compete unless mommy holds their hand.

Just do good.
This sounds very self satisfied and smug.Every Nation thinks they are unique and special.The amount of people attending church seems to have no relationship at all to the quality of their morals and ethics, this is a romantic supposition not supported by facts. The Shining City on the Hill uses more of the world's resources than any other Nation, has an obesity problem while other nations starve.This City wastes energy while others are cold, drives high fuel consumption cars (even to church) while others cannot afford to transport basic food. This City, is happy to use violence against others as the solution to almost every problem. This is a City which has sells its Democracy to the highest bidder, which allows the Presidency to be bought. This is a City which treats politics as if it were a football game and would rather vote for the least good than see their side lose. Certainly there are bits of the City that shine, we have freedom of speech and a system of law that is more just, more equitable, more open than any of the ancient religious systems. We can sometimes make the lame walk, the deaf hear and the blind see but this is due to medical science, not religion and is more available to the rich than the poor. Certainly we are smart, we have managed to grab a bigger piece of the world's pie than any other Nation but that is not a shining example. So lets not delude ourselves about shining cities and pretend we are holier than thou. Moral and ethical standards are inbuilt(By God or Nature) so why not just do good for its own sake.

who is Amnesty Juan?
(data per the National Journal)

re: liberal voting records

Year-to-year Senate voting scores can reveal consistency or change. McCain, for example, grew increasingly less conservative over the years. He started with annual conservative scores consistently in the 80's when he first went to the Senate in 1987, dipped to the 70's during the mid-1990s, into the 60's in the late 1990s and into the 50's starting in 2004. Only a couple of Senators who claimed to be Republican were voting left of him by 2006.

Obama has been the #1` most liberal Senator, with Shrillary not far behind, and she has been moving leftward (to her real core) since feigning being a moderate when first elected. Hussein and Hildabeest have NO differences on key issues.

Ergo, essentially we have a Hobson's Choice among 3 libs... pick your relltive poison. On one critical issue they all agree-- all 3 believe in embracing ILLEGALS and making them voters and citizens promptly, thus assuring the demise of America into a declining, balkanized, third world welfare state in short order. Bien venido, amigos!

Star -- Poor Article
McCain is on the membership list of the CFR, along with other notables such as Gingrich, Clinton, Barone, Gigot, Bush, and swarms of others who want we little people to do as they want - open borders, "free" trade, keep the oil flowing from the mideast, etc. For him not to mention that city on the hill is part of his strategy. The Demo candidates do not wear their religion, or lack of, on their sleeve. It'll bring havoc as it did for Romney, the better candidate. You think McShame wants to offend leftists? No, he'll do most anything to get a vote or get in front of a camera. THIS is his dream come true even if he fails to get elected.

Mitt might run w/Amnesty Juan
Although it seems likely that Amnesty Juan will go down in defeat (no tears here... he is just a little right of Shrillary), it also now seems likely that Mitt will be his running mate, which sets him up to be the main man in 4 years. Juan needs Mitt to appear more conservative and to have somebody who understands the economy, which is surely sliding badly... that usually decides elections.

The only thing that might stanch the most liberal Senator among all 100 being elected is that racist church thing... I wonder if over the coming months and more people learn about Rev. Wright that the swing voters will not become anxious.

Regardless of which lib wins, it will be important that conservatives try to support people for/in Congress who can help check the left and save us from the Reconquista and Hussein's socialist agenda. Recall how Slick Willie backed into the W.H., thanks partly to gadfly Perot, but the prospect of Hillary Care so spooked America that we sent real Republicans to control Congress in '94. The result was that good things resulted (welfare reform, spending restraint, balanced budgets) despite Slick Willie being in the W.H. He then shifted his focus down to Monica's face, which did us no harm.

If you want to get involved to save your America from the ILLEGAL alien incursion, here are links for the official contact sites of Congressmen, and free targeted e-mails you can send from NumbersUSA. Bookmark them and bark at Congress often. YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE! Middle Americans just like YOU stopped scamnesty last year, but the fight goes on... the other side is monied and organized, and the left wants them voting ASAP:

http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

did Amnesty Juan get the message?
He claims that he got America's message about enforcement against ILLEGAL aliens, but
Amnesty John has learned NOTHING! McVain has appointed Smilin' Juan Hernandez to be his "Hispanic outreach adviser." (As if Amnesty John needed to reach out to ILLEGAL aliens?!) Hernandez (still a Mexican citizen) is one of the leading vocal proponents of open borders, naturalizing ILLEGAL aliens, and the Reconquista. That is tantamount to appointing Castro as your adviser on limiting government influence in our lives! As for McVain admitting his mistake about scamnesty, he sarcastically quipped: I'll build the damm wall if that's what they want! Real genuine commitment there, Juan!

McAmnesty hardly votes conservatively most of the time: he is a RINO/CINO who has voted left of most Republicans (45 of them) in the Senate, and gleefully crossed the aisle (a short walk for him!) to put his name on conspicuous anti-conservative bills. He is Presidente Jorge Redux-- a neoCON/CFR, open border, globalist.

I believe STRONGLY in supporting responsible candidates for Congress who advocate the rule of law and truly clamping down on ILLEGALS, but Amnesty John will would not be in sync with them. Like Presidente Jorge, this "man of principle" made a Faustian deal and sold his soul (forget what is instead good for America!) for Hispanic votes and personal aggrandizement.

pick your poison
re:
(question posed to me yesterday, different thread here)
"What I want to know is, would you rather see Obama in the White House, or McCain? I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bath water."

I voted for Presidente Jorge twice as the putative lesser evil-- been there, done that! Twice burned, shame on us! Jorge let the neoCONS/CFR/PNAC/AIPAC ilk talk him (and con us) into a profligate, endless war against the wrong Islamics (REAL agenda to establish permanent bases to protect Israel's flank), spent money and grew government like a drunken sailor 'Crat, and worst of all, embraced ILLEGALS like they were his favored relatives. Jorge told them down in Mexico early last year that he would work for THEM to assure passage of Kennedy-MCCAIN (read: Scamnesty). In 2004, he surreptiously committed to send S.S. funds southward to Mexico.

Oddly and ironically, we were better off with a Republican Congress serving as a check on lib Slick Willie than we have been with the CINO, stubborn dunce who followed him. We forced welfare reform, balanced budgets, and limited govt. on Slick Willie... CINO Jorge reversed that progress with big govt./ bloated budgets and fiscal irresponsibility, this sullying the conservative image by only pretending to be one. Amnesty John has already proven that he relishes that iconoclastic role. Both are avid quislings on the single biggest threat to the socio-economic well-being of America-- the ILLEGAL alien incursion and pervasion (which ILLEGAL aliens call the Reconquista).

kapahulu
You said everything I have ever thought about McCain. I hear a lot of people criticize his liberalism, but almost no one has addressed the problem of his lacking "faculties" as you put it.

I agree, he seems almost senile. This really scares me. I have put forth the theory before that he got the vote because the Dems somehow managed to infiltrate the voting process. I just have not talked to any conservatives (or even moderate Republicans for that matter) who are really enthusiastic about McCain (save for a few imposters here at TH). So where did all his supporters come from?

I think this whole primary election is a fraud.

Open letter.................
B2slim writes: Monday, March, 31, 2008 3:10 AM
an Obligation of EVERY CITIZEN

What McCain and every GOP contender up and down the line must get back to is the facts that made the USA Great.

1. 100% personal responsibility in all things.
`EXCEPT IF YOUR A BUSH REAGAN REPUBLICAN.'
A. get an education,
`IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT.'
B. get a job, show up on time, do your job
`MOVE TO INDIA, BY A LANDROVER, AND WORK FOR NOTHING'
C. earn promotions and advancements
`LIE ABOUT YOUR SUPERIOR AND STAB OTHERS IN THE BACK'
D. LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS
`GET OTHERS TO PAY FOR YOUR MANSION IN A MONEY QUICK PYRIAMID SCHEME'
c. MAKE SACRIFICES to save and invest
`LIVE ON CREDIT CARDS OF OTHERS'
D. STOP HAVING KIDS YOU CANNOT AFFORD
`GET FIXED AFTER YOU'VE ENGINEERED SELECTED ONE OF EACH'
E. Obey all of the laws
`WHICH APPLY TO YOUR WEALTHY STATUS'
F. Respect the rights of all other citizens
`UNLESS THEY ARE DEMOCRATS, GAYS, CATHOLICS, LUTHERANS, ETC., ETC.
G. Keep your property in good repair and clean
`YELL AT YOUR ILLEGAL LAWN PEOPLE'
H. Keep the public square clean
`LOL LOL, Im sorry I can nolonger type I'm laughing to much to go on.
I. Stop excesses which destroy the lives of others.
J. Meet every single one of your obligations
K. BE factually informed.
L. Be prepared to pay for your criminal conduct

B2slim your one funny dude. LOL

Hard to say which is more saddening...
The hatred of some people for McCain...

Or the apparent hatred of some people for this country...

a waste of good ink...
Star, you are a real conservative and McCain is a real politician. He doesn't care about conservative issues and principles. He only cares about doing and saying whatever will get him elected. He will shamelessly pander to every ethnic group or organization that will give him the opportunity.

He continually trumpets his military service as the reason he should be President. I served in the military too, but that doesn't qualify me for the White House. He avoids issues because stating a position might offend someone.

Like all his fellow liberals, McCain feels an obligation to apologive for America instead of speaking of its greatness. A real conservative would speak of its greatness and ways to make it even greater. We have three liberals running for President. This election is a lost cause for conservatives. The people have spoken and they are ignorant. They always have been and always will be.

Butcher
Your writing style (or lack thereof) is almost as bad as Robert's.

Btw - when using a contraction to say "you are" the proper word is "you're" not “your”.

Sounds like you were one of those people not able to afford an education. Of course, you should have learned this in elementary school.

how we got stuck w/McAmnesty
re:
"I just have not talked to any conservatives (or even moderate Republicans for that matter) who are really enthusiastic about McCain (save for a few imposters here at TH). So where did all his supporters come from?

I think this whole primary election is a fraud."
******************************

The process is surely flawed... Florida, once again, really decided the whole thing. RINO gov. Crist wanted to be VP (figuring McVain would croak, probably), so he threw his support late to McAmnesty... then recent RNC (Rino Network for reConquista) Chairman Sen. Mel Martinez told the Hispanics (in Spanish no less) to vote for McAmnesty because he had proven his love for them with Kennedy-Mcamnesty-- even though the reality is that middle class Hispanic citizens have little in common with ILLEGAL aliens except language and ethnicity, broadly speaking. It seems that ethnicity/tribal allegiance is stronger than patriotism-- see also Iraq and the Balkans.

The MSM also greatly aided and abetted Juan McAmnesty... they love him for being a gadfly who feigns being a conservative (see posts below about his actual voting trends), but is in their PC camp on ILLEGALS, the environment, and liberal social issues (heck, I agree mostly on the latter 2). they kept telling us that McAmnesty was "electable"... exit polls showed that people voted for Amnesty Juan because he was seen as electable, ALTHOUGH they did not see him as sharing their values (he embraces ILLEGALS, and loves the profligate neoCON war of choice against the wrong bad Arabs).

Pot, meet kettle.....
"... all you can do is repost the same stuff on different threads."

So says the Townhall coward.

SoonerRed
Don't confuse the lack of respect with hatred...that's the tactic of a liberal and it won't work on us conservatives. If you want McCain hate, log onto the KOS and read postings of the truly insane. Also, please spare us from the condscending "we hate our country tripe". Again, log onto a looney left website if you want to real America hate.

If McCain had the intellectual honesty to run as a Democrat, I would respect him. He's a career-elite Washington politician and nothing more.

Lets see in the next election
we can choose: A racist socialist master BS artist, A feminist socialist professional BS artist, or a Liberal hawk novice BS artist. I am just thrilled! The good side of all this is when we become just another third world country everyone will have to find someone else to blame for all their failings.

Lets see in the next election
we can choose: A racist socialist master BS artist, A feminist socialist professional BS artist, or a Liberal hawk novice BS artist. I am just thrilled! The good side of all this is when we become just another third world country everyone will have to find someone else to blame for all their failings.

No Comment
Much ado about nothing.

LOL....
Butcher your comments to B2slim remind me of an old saying with you playing the lead role.


“There are none so blind as those, that will not see”

Amen!
And I'll add that I am going for a third party which is pro-American that is not trying to get my vote by fear but by what I believe in - the Constitution.


McAmnesty
How ARE we, who are conservatives supposed to vote? John McCain, who is probably the lesser of three evils - is a liberal in sheep's clothing. When he commits to "No Amesty - no guest worker amnesty and starts addressing the current economic problem and actual conservative values he might get my vote. However I believe John McCain's ego will prevent him from listening to any advice from a good VP (suggest Condi Rice who has had more experience with foreign relations also as a national security advisor than McCain) and Rommey as Sec of economics we might have a chance. If he picks one of his cronies, i.e. Florida's Crist or his amnesty buddy - Juan Hernnadiz or Mexico's Martinez - we will be doomed by a doddering old fool. Saying that, either the lying Billary duo or a questionable (on religion or his actual feelings toward American values and principals) Obama would be absolutely disastrous taking this country into a third world socialist/marxist country. See Obama's voting record - he's definity into making this a socialist country (his change) and Billary is not far behind.

What, are you joking Star?
"I hope you can still listen, John.

Your fellow conservative,

Star"

And so if McCain starts SAYING all the right things in accordance with the above, then he'll havve your support?

Please tell me that you are not that fickle! That goes for the rest of America wishing that the GOP was what it was back in the '70s and '80s too!

Time to give it a rest. The GOP Has slidden just as far to the left as the Democratic party has with the difference being that it simply started further to the right.

No, this is no longer about GOP v. Dim, although in choosing "the lesser of two evils/horrors/diasters" the Democratic party will never win out. No, rather this is now about "us vs. them," "The People" vs. the politicians, the political elite that now have all but insurmountable power over us.

Don't think so? What can we do about what they do, namely ignore our, again, "The Peoples," wishes, and do what they want anyway only entrenching them further. Been to the Hill lately? Take a look at all the security! If that's not a political elite eerily digging themselves in, then I don't know what is!

McCain is McCain. He's not going to change dear. Your asking him to alter his rhetoric to make you feel better is more frightening than much else.

Does the GOP Want To Survive?


It's really up to Sen. McCain. If he wants our votes, he has to earn them.

He said he heard us after the last amnesty fight. He heard two things right. We want the border secured and we don't trust them. There apparently was alot he didn't hear.

He hired Juan Hernandez, who represents foreign nationals illegally in our country as his hispanic outreach, instead of reaching out to someone from "You Don't Speak For Me" a group of citizens of hispanic descent who oppose illegal aliens.

He said a couple of weeks ago he would sign McCain/Kennedy if it were put on his desk.


If he wants my vote, there are a couple of things he could do.
1. Publicly dismiss and disavow Juan Hernandez and the Reconquista for which he stands.
2. Apologize for conspiring in secret with La Raza and Ted Kennedy and trying to jam amnesty down our throats.
3. Pledge to veto ANY amnesty bill.
4. Pledge to enforce the laws, including deportation, which is the penalty for illegal aliens.

It's up to Sen. McCain, he can represent the interests of American citizens and uphold the rule of law or he can continue to court the favor of liberals and illegal aliens.

I will not vote for the latter.

Not Voting For Amnesty

McCain keeps saying "Secure the border first". We know that he means amnesty next. The plan is to get the border state Gov's to declare the border secure. Conveniently, they are all on board the cheap labor express. Then his good friend Ted Kennedy will bring back McCain/Kennedy and McCain can provide his good friends across the aisle with their new permanent majority.

I will not vote for amnesty.


http://townhall.com/columnists/AmandaCarpenter/2008/03/28/b loggers_press_mccain_adviser_on_immigration
“John McCain’s position on immigration is very clear and this a question that gets asked at townhall appearances everyday in media appearances and has answered the question at least a thousand times before the New Hampshire primary,” Schmidt said.

He explained, “Any person who supports John McCain’s campaigns is a subscriber to John McCain’s views"

A vote for McCain is a vote for amnesty.

7 Months to November
Anyone predicting this election today is engaging in illusions. Polls already show that Obama has substantially recovered from the knock he took from Wright. He and McCain are virtually tied nationally, his lead in NC is back to double digits, and Hillary's lead in PA has slipped back to 10 points, at 49 to 39, from 19 points. Further, he leads in Indiana and Oregon, and in the Texas caucus's by 58 to 42. Other than than, all that is left is W.VA, Ky, SD, Montana, Guam and Puerto Rico - hardly states that will tip the nomination. The author is counting chickens before they're hatched. The general election is still 7 months away, and it remains to be seen if McCain, currently the beneficiary of the Democratic nomination fight, will perform well once that fight is over. His performance in the GOP debates was never particuarly strong, other than, perhaps, on Iraq. On the economy, he was generally mute or said little, and he did not demonstrate that he was particuarly fast or effective at repartee.

He has one message, and that is foreign policy. Yet, I wonder if that will be enough. Certainly, a majority of Americans don't think so, as 42% list the economy and 18% list health care as their number 1 concerns, as opposed to 21% listing Iraq.

If he isn't a quick learner - and I wonder about that, and if he cannot make strong and rational comments about economic and health care issues, then in the end, he may simply not have all the issues necessary to win in 7 months. Like some, I wonder about his intellect. He's ridden the POW image and his military background a long time now - but it takes more than that to be an effective President.

Screw the GOP Virginia Patriot
People need to begin to think independently and not think that a single party is the key to all of their biggest woes like some Pavlovian trained canine.

That's the problem with America, no one thinks independently anymore. They all wait for someone else, Rush, Hannity, Oprah, or some other celebrity or religious leader to tell them what to think.

The people of this country are losing their freedoms. Once gone we/they will NEVER get them back in this day and age where "mob control" can virtually be achieved with a "finger on a button."

We're on the verge of going bankrupt as a nation, seeing a depression that will make the depression of the '30s look like a church picnic, and blending in with the rest of the world's defunct globally centralized government.

The answers are NOT in a party!!!

Anyone looking to the GOP, now gone the way of the Democratic Party, for help and solutions, is merely deluding themself and adding to the problem. The two party system feeds right into the hands of the enemy. But hey, our educational system facilitates allegiance to it, so hell, what do we expect.

And speaking of hell, ... expectations may begin there.

Read this if you dare!
I could say this with a little more tact. I could speak like an educated man and back up my words with facts and logic. But all of that would be wasted on those people that I want to talk to. The rest of you please excuse me. Anyone who wants to vote for Hillary or Obama are big babies. You are simply looking for the lost mother or father that you never had to take care of you. You think this country owes you something. Wrong! It is you that owe this country! Where is your pride? Where is your brain? If you keep electing these Socialist you will never reach your full potential. Our forefathers were brilliant when they set up this system. And you idiots are trying to wreck it for your children and theirs. To all of you conservatives who don't want to elect McCain I sympathize, but you don't really have a choice and you know it. We must elect him and put as many true conservatives in congress that we can. Then we must fight him tooth and nail for every stupid liberal thing he tries. Then hopefully in 4 years we get another shot. Understand? To those who do lets get to work.

Strange how Ayn Rand
got it right! Where is John Gault when we really need him? Are there any left?

McCain's true Achilles heel
Was exposed this last week in Iraq. What he will be trying to sell as the WOT has turned out to be a civil war. Also, it's going to get worse again, most probably at the time of their provincial elections which coincide with our Presidential elections.

bryce
It is hilarious watching you and others of your ilk.

You sit around just waiting for any bad news from Iraq so you can come on here and post your talking points.

And every time - it is the end of the world - it is civil war.

You are our enemy's best friend.

I fully intend on voting
this november for Mitt Romney. I will either vote for him as Veep, or as a write in. There is a huge groundswell, were Mitt will carry several states, denying McCain the presidency, if Mitt gets written in, as we are planning on doing.

Mitt will right the ship. Just do it, or you lose. Sitting out is not an option, but writting Mitt in, is. He has my vote in Novemember, either way.

Primus this time it is civil war
For two years now the administration has been saying Iraq was not a civil war because despite the sect on sect violence, the fighters had not coalesced around a single leader, and the fight was not for territory but ideological. The fight in Basra was between fighters loyal to al-Sadr and fighters loyal to al-Hakim, and the fight itself is over control of the oil fields. This is not Al-Queda, and not attacks on civilians.

I ask you, what defines a civil war and how does the definition apply in Basra?

Like many here
I, too, see this election as a very real and critical showdown between the GOP and conservatism.

Three possible outcomes:

1. McCain wins, conservatism is taken as irrelevant to GOP success, and there's no more home for conservatism.

2. McCain loses, the GOP misreads the message AS USUAL, and the GOP continues rushing leftward.

3. McCain loses, the GOP correctly reads the tea leaves, and tries to regain its conservative foundation.


If #1 happens, then 2 possibilities devolve:

1A. Conservatism is dead in America. The Fat Lady's sung, the Great Experiment is over, and it ended in failure.

1B. A new party rises, based in traditional conservatism, just like the GOP originally evolved from the WHIGs (and for essentially the same reason).

IT IS TOUGH TO LEAD

....WHEN YOU DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING ...

.....Great Article Star ...

.....Not to defend McCain but his idea for a League of Democratic Nations is a back door scheme to get us out of the U.N. which would be a good thing by degree ...

.....Personally I would prefer a President who recognized the uniqueness of America in the World and would take a strong stand on American sovereignty ...that Shining City on the Hill that Reagan spoke of seems so very very far away .....COLOSSUS

I couldn't have said it better myself.
Nicely put Ms Parker. If more people start giving Mr McCain constructive criticism, hopefully he will hear us and unify his messag to what people want in a president, and most importantly, respect that message and act upon it.

What happened to the Constitution?
One of the fundamental principles of Conservatism is adherence to the Constitution. Where in the Constitution does it grant the government the power to do social engineering? I understand Liberals can justify anything, but what happened to Conservatives?

Conservatives are supposed to oppose social engineering by the government, not merely substitute their agenda for the Liberal's. Instead I hear Conservatives rattling off their list of social ills with the expectation that Republicans are going to go to Washington and fix society's problems.

As a Conservative, I am here to tell you that government is not the answer. If you want to solve problems like teen pregnancy, drug use, falling education levels, etc., then you are going to have to fix society. You can't look to government to solve these problems.

If you want to solve problems, do something. If you don't like what is being taught in your school district, run for the school board. If you can't run for school board, find out who is and support the people who agree with you.

If you are concerned about problems like teen pregnancy or drug use: volunteer, organize, donate, and support organizations that address these issues. If all you can do is sit at your computer and whine that a candidate isn't promising to solve whatever social issue is your hot button, then you are a part of the problem.

You also aren't a Conservative. If you want society to change, go out and change it. Then you will truly be a Conservative.

To BrianR in answer to your post of..
1:45am "Why is the GOP running this numbnuts?"
No one in
Because the GOP has slidden so far down the slippery slope that it has become the "Garbage Only Pile" (GOP). There is no room in the Republican Party for a true conservative. Most of the politicians from both "parties" have lost any Moral Courage they may have ever possessed.
May Almighty God have Mercy on our once grat country!

BRIANR

.....As I have explained in the past I cannot be an idealist because I am a Computer and thus restrained by logic ...

.....You have the human defect of idealism which is influenced by emotional irrationality ...

.....Your conclusions 1A & 1B are not logical:

...1A ...Conservatism has never been the majority of the Republican Party ...it is a wing of no more than 30% of the Party and it would not die if the Party disolved ...

...1B ...A new Party rising from the ashes would join with the Green, Libertarian & Constitution Parties as a minority Party with no National influence ...

.....The Logical course of action if McCain wins is for Conservatives within the Party to stay united and work together as a bloc to move the Parties Platform to the right of Center and to elect as many Conservatives as possible in all local and national elections and to work for more Conservative Judges ...

.....My logic tells me that victory can never be achieved by surrender .....COLOSSUS

More Gimme isms
Thought proving article until it came to the million black men in prison part. A president is not our elected God. Not to solve everyone's personal problem. Where is the do-nothing congress in this? Where is personal responsibility? If these million men marching in prison need inspiration, it is called the Bible, or whatever book that inspires. So it takes a fatherless, mixed race to inspire criminals to be responsible? Gimme a break!

butcher
You can't really believe the ignorant sophistry in your post, can you? You can't really be that incredibly dull, can you?

First of all, during Reagan's term, we saw the longest period of sustained growth in American history, which benefitted all Americans.

Secondly, there are no 'cash reserves' in the SS trust fund, and there never have been. Those funds have long been included in the the general fund, or spent, by liberal Democrats who controlled both houses of Congress for 40 years. Get a clue.

Thirdly, the people who can't make change for a dollar or do math were educated in the public school system, which has been, for decades, inflitrated and controlled by liberal Democrats.

As to your foolish reference to the Matthew Sheppard incident, how embarassingly uninformed can you be? That has long since been proven to be a drug deal gone bad, and had nothing to do with anything gay at all.

Butcher, my suggestion is that you actually attempt to do some research on real facts before you once again open your big, fat trap and insert both feet.

JJBIENER 11:21

.....Right On Bro .....COLOSSUS

Star Parker
Excellent article!!

Roman, Bballdoc
Roman, I couldn't agree more. As a matter of fact, that ties into my response to Bballdoc.

BBdoc, I agree that conservatives have never made up the majority of the GOP; this schism between conservatives and Country Club/Rockefeller Repubs isn't new. It's been going on for 50 years.

However, the conservatives ARE the bloc that contribute the money and volunteer the time and manpower that make possible any victories the GOP manages to eke out.

Further, as I live in California, I've seen the end result of your "strategy" of trying to move the party to the Right from the inside: a state GOP that's nothing more than the Dem-Lite Party; Sacramento GOPers who conspire with the Dems to assure the security of their own seats while being satisfied with permanent minority status; a purportedly GOP Governator who's as liberal as they come, proposes his own Leftist agenda, and treats conservatives like they have rabies.

No, there's a reason the GOP's known as The Stupid Party, and it's that they have to have their feet held to the fire from time to time to remember that conservatives are needed for their victories.

They didn't learn a thing from their butt-kicking in 2006. They haven't learned anything from history: Reagan won two landslides on conservative values; Bush 1 won his election on Reagan's coattails, and lost when he ran as his more liberal natural self; the Gingrich Revolution of 1994 that took Congressional majority for the first time in over 30 years, then slowly lost it as the GOPers slid back Leftward. Jindal and Palin take the governorships of Louisiana (a Dem stronghold) and Alaska on traditional conservative platforms at the same time the national GOP's going down in flames and shedding membership like a mange-ridden dog loses hair.

The history lessons are there, and they're very clear, but the GOP simply ignores them.

McCain should heed Parker's gracious adv
Star--I pray that McCain will "see the light" in your words. The government cannot change the hearts of its people. Only God can. And that is why those who call themselves conservatives should speak out about the true condition of our "shining city on a hill." It should be of concern to all that we have been allowing the meaning of words to be changed by liberal thinkers. And to see other words substituted by the "parroting" of the media. In Victorian times the word "virtues" defined the character of society. It has been replaced by the word "values" first used by Nietsche. They do not mean the same. One is absolute. The other allows for relativism. Conservatives who truly believe the principles of our Constitution must acknowledge that they cannot be changed without weakening our society. John McCain must be urged to listen to the wise words of those who have the public "pulpit" such as Star Parker and others. There are many of us (born pre-World War 2)who agree. Yes, there is something wrong about our society and our government today, but it cannot be "fixed" by any more government solutions. Only the hearts of citizens who love this country and are thankful for all its blessings will be able to bring about the right kind of change.

Open Letter to John McCain
Dear Star,

Your open lettr to John McCain letter touched me deeply. Thank you for hitting the nail on the head.

I want a leader who will talk about and address these issues. Someone who will put us back up on that hill. We are different from the rest of the world, and we should be proud of that difference. It is why people want to come here, why we have succeded where others have failed.

It is time to face reality and to face head on the problems mentioned in your article. Please continue to challenge Senator McCain and get an answer from him as to how he will confront these most important issues.

I want a president who will face up to the rest of the world, and who thinks that we are the greatest country in the world!

Thanks for your insight and common sense,

Patricia B. Cagle
pbcagle@co.dekalb.ga.us

BrianR-Primus
McAmnesty McMidget’s Speech sealed his fate.

Robert’s Mommy sealed his Depens.

Star Parker
Bravo!! John McCain needs to pay heed to this.

Will he?? Probably not. To the detriment of our country.

USA in trouble
Why has it come to this? Three of the worst candidates are the only ones left.How sad it is to say that someone that doesn't understand what the american people want,as to immigration is the best of the three.The other two are supporters of amnesty too.

jax33
"How sad it is to say that someone that doesn't understand what the american people want,as to immigration is the best of the three."

I don't think you know what "the american people" want re immigration, and it is presumptuous in the extreme for you to try to speak for them. A small group of political activists and their followers have managed to demogogue the immigration issue, but I think the results of the primaries are pretty clear. The majority of Americans favor a more broadbased solution to illegal immigration.

For future reference, "No Amnesty" is not a political position. It a slogan. Slogans don't solve problems.

Politics is the art of compromise. It is not an exercise in didacticism.

jax33
"How sad it is to say that someone that doesn't understand what the american people want,as to immigration is the best of the three."

I don't think you know what "the american people" want re immigration, and it is presumptuous in the extreme for you to try to speak for them. A small group of political activists and their followers have managed to demogogue the immigration issue, but I think the results of the primaries are pretty clear. The majority of Americans favor a more broadbased solution to illegal immigration.

For future reference, "No Amnesty" is not a political position. It a slogan. Slogans don't solve problems.

Politics is the art of compromise. It is not an exercise in didacticism.

Silly Article
With all due respect to Mrs. Parker, this is one of the silliest things I've read in a while. John McCain is avoiding the religious rhetoric of Bush, that won over so many religious conservatives, and put a man in the White House for two terms who did ANYTHING BUT represent the Republican Party. McCain is already in deep enough because he wants to maintain Bush's fiscal policies, and his foreign policy - both of which are actually Democratic, liberal policies. The idea that we should spend outrageously, and interfere in the affairs of others. Neither of these are Republican, small government ideas, but Democratic, big government ideas. George W. Bush got away with it because he catered to the religious right. Jesus would want us to spend more. Jesus would want us to invade Iraq and liberate the poor "Mohammed-deluded" people of Iraq. John McCain isn't flying that self-righteous flag, and that's why he's taking so much heat. When push comes to shove, most Republicans will support McCain with their vote anyhow. And things may get worse. The GOP is going to keep taking heat, because we aren't sticking to our principles of smaller government, and more liberty.

jax33
"How sad it is to say that someone that doesn't understand what the american people want,as to immigration is the best of the three."

I don't think you know what "the american people" want re immigration, and it is presumptuous in the extreme for you to try to speak for them. A small group of political activists and their followers have managed to demogogue the immigration issue, but I think the results of the primaries are pretty clear. The majority of Americans favor a more broadbased solution to illegal immigration.

For future reference, "No Amnesty" is not a political position. It a slogan. Slogans don't solve problems.

Politics is the art of compromise. It is not an exercise in didacticism.

JJBeiner
I think the American People spoke pretty loudly on amnesty and illegal aliens when they forced Congress TWICE to back off from passing it into law.

Res ipsa loquitur.

JJBeiner
Brian said it all where were you when the American people told congress no amnesty

McLame, McAmnesty, McFraud
McAmensty will do as he pleases and the people be d@mned. He may be the lesser of the evils, but not by much. I believe he is as evil as the other two Socialistic decievers. 2008 is lost to us bite the bullet and see if WE THE PEOPLE can change it, So many of you know what is going on share it with your families, email to every person in your address book, discuss it with your kids, grandkids, write to your newspapers, go to your party and get involved email those in office, pundants talk show hosts read some history, some of the books out today are pretty good, be informed, educated in reality and most important don't be APATHETIC. Thats how the polititians stole our vote to begin with

McAmnesty isLiberal as they come
How he loves to reach across the isle, but beats down his own party, he despises the real conservatives and you are right he will say ANYTHING to get into office, like I said in my last post we’ve lost 2008 but it is up to us to change the system before we get worse in 2012, A quote by Alexander Tyler over 100 years ago
"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money (entitlements) from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependencybacktobondage."

2008 is lost to the people GOD HELP US
McLame can't be trusted
You all got that right, I am wondering if he isn't the 2008 version of the Manchurian Candidate, scary and as for a vote how can we vote with the choice presented to us by a manipulated Primary system. No matter who gets in we get the same deal and it ain't a good one folks. I say NO AMNESTY. Drill for oil under the ice he refuses to consider this believing the hyperboli on global warming. This will be our economic downfall. get involved in your party at the grass roots level and change the d@mn system.Term limits on the crooked Congress as well.

JJBiener
Thank you for getting across the phrase I was having such a hard time finding - social engineering. I get the impression that alot of the so-called conservatives here want government to institute a Christian, moral society. That's not going to happen. If you want a Christian, moral society, you can't use government and force or coercion to do it. You must go out, as individuals, or as groups of voluntary members, and persuade people - the Christian, conservative way.

Brian & Jax
"I think the American People spoke pretty loudly on amnesty and illegal aliens when they forced Congress TWICE to back off from passing it into law."

"Brian said it all where were you when the American people told congress no amnesty"

I didn't hear the "American People" say anything about "amnesty". To the contrary, I heard a bunch of self-appointed demogogues threaten a few politicians to derail the legislation (which wasn't even amnesty to begin with). If you believe that was the voice of the "American People" you need to your ears checked.

JonathanCid
These people AREN'T conservatives. While they may have different policy goals than Liberal Democrats, they use the same methods. Those methods are in no way conservative or Republican. When it comes down to it, they are the real RINOs.

Actually, JonCid
True conservatism is NOT an ideology that believes in using government force to implement a social vision; your own approach is more aligned with true conservatism, which is a philosophy based on small government, individual responsibility, property rights, fiscal responsibility, border security, Originalist and Constructionist interpretations of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, gun rights, and federalism.

The GOP and MSM have made a concerted effort to recast conservatism as a form of religious fundamentalism in an attempt to minimize and marginalize conservatives.


Why is it...
...that people who disagree with me insist on misspelling my name?

Oh, please, Beiner
On the one hand, conservatives are irrelevant, yet on the other hand this meaningless minority managed to derail amnesty in Congress.

So........ which is it?

And btw, amnesty is amnesty, regardless of how you try to parse words in such a Clintonesque manner.

If it walks and quacks like a duck, it's a bloody duck.


A sad state--
To me it is a sad state of affairs, when we have the 3 choices that are in front of us for POTUS.
They all, as many have said and witnessed, pander to the illegal alien supporters. None of them seem to understand that outsourcing of good jobs, open borders, higher taxes, wasteful spending, etc. cannot keep the USA in good shape for very long in the future.
Many people that I know are very worried about the futures of their children, and some that have grandchildren if the present trends continue.
Many of us have wondered if common sense is now extinct. However, I believe that there are many good conservative people on this thread that are a lot smarter and conservative than the 3 yahoos we have running for POTUS. But I also think that the 3 yahoos running for POTUS pretty well know that they have a large group of sheep and lemmings that will vote for them no matter what.
We all remember the old bromide, "praise a fool and perhaps you can make him usefull".


JJBiener
Exactly. Hopefully in the future those of us who are real conservatives can regain the Republican Party leadership and put the party back on the track of smaller government, free markets, individual liberty, and obedience to the Constitution.

As for now, the RINO religious-right (and I myself am religious, and a seminarian, but I don't associate with the coercive religious right) is running the GOP and it's because of this special-interest group that we've had eight embarassing years for the pary and have had to turn to John McCain to try to salvage this election. Mind you, I'm not defending McCain. I'm afraid McCain is another Bush waiting to come along and keep spending up, keep a completely unbalanced budget, and ruin countless lives in a continuing war with no clear purpose other than to "destroy the evil Islamists." This does seem more like an ethno-religious attack on Iraq that is all too convenient for the religious right.

Just as I read all these posts against "amnesty". It's absurd to say that a mother with three starving children should be sent back to a country where she will have to seel her two girls into prostitution along with herself, and where her son may thrown into a human trafficking ring, where she has no protection - and this is the Christian thing to do? WWJD? Jesus would be outraged at the blatant xenophobia. If someone is a REAL criminal, send them back. If someone crossed the border because they were desparate, and nobody checked them because we have a broken SECURITY system that is OUR fault, don't get angry at them. We should be welcoming these people with open arms as long as they are no threat. God will judge each and every single one of you crying out for their crucifixion.

Brian
"On the one hand, conservatives are irrelevant, yet on the other hand this meaningless minority managed to derail amnesty in Congress."

Actually, that isn't what I said, but I am not surprised you interpreted that way.

"And btw, amnesty is amnesty, regardless of how you try to parse words in such a Clintonesque manner."

Some people believe words have meaning and they should be used correctly. That takes a certain degree of intellectual rigor which not everyone subscribes to.

"If it walks and quacks like a duck, it's a bloody duck."

A case in point.

Incidentally, Biener
Happy about the spelling that time?

Anyway, on amnesty:

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. Jan. 14-17, 2008. N=1,393 adults nationwide. MoE ? 3.

65% want the number of illegal aliens decreased.

There's lots of polling data out there, and none of it supports your posit.

Here's a link to a lot of recent polls:http://www.numbersusa.com/interests/publicop.html

Facts are sometimes inconvenient things.

Star
John did not hear a word you said.

Juan isn't going to listen
It's evident, look at who he surrounds himself with.
conservativebase.org

Star...
Amen.

BrianR
I know you aren't Macs biggest fan, and you're in good and crowded company.

You offered three scenerios earlier, I'd like to offer a fourth although I'm not trying to sell it to being as likely as yours.

McCain wins but conservatives are able to get some fire power into congress with the message that they are there solely to ride herd on Mac.

Now I have little real optimism on this because McCain has shown time and again he will not be lead to the conservative trough to water.

Interesting, Leroy
The Congressional aspect would actually be more effective against the Dem, because for some reason the GOP always plays better defense than offense. Look at the Gingrich Revolution in the mid-terms during Clinton's first term.

The flaw in your proposal is that, particularly for the first year, the congressional GOPers aren't going to oppose "their own" President. Look for amnesty to be shoved down our throats in Year One.

It's an interesting proposal, but I think ultimately unrealistic.

BrianR
Apologies, seems things get away before I finish.

At any rate, I was only wanting to wrap by saying that even though McCain maynot be coerced into doing things possibly a congress with heavy conservative leanings could limit the damage until the next cycle.

Although to be honest with you, between the three Democrats in the race, Hillary, Obama and McCain, Obama may be the most easily manipulated strictly due to his lack of experience. From that stand point a conservative congress may have better luck at damage control with him.

Any way you look at it I must admit, this is going to be a rather interesting ride.

leroy writes: "McCain wins but

conservatives are able to get some fire power into congress with the message that they are there solely to ride herd on Mac."

I would certainly agree... Problem is, finding those Conservatives who will actually do it!

Right here in PA, for example, Specter is running yet again, but only on the good days does he even rise to the level of RINO. The rest of the time he's pretty much a lib who is sitting on the wrong side of the aisle.






Leroy, Anne
Leroy, sorry to step on you there. Obviously, I thought you were done talking.

I actually agree with your assessment on the "three Democrats". I think Obama's such a rookie that he'll not be very powerful, and I don't think Clinton wants to go down in history as the First Woman President Who Also Lost A War. I think a lot of what she's saying is just preaching to her choir. She's bad, don't get me wrong. But I see McCain as the biggest danger because of his arrogance coupled with the message the GOP gets from his election. Very problematic long term.


Anne, Specter's a GREAT example! Back when he last got elected, he was going to lose his committee chairmanship because of his liberalism, but he promised to straighten up and fly right, and they let him stay.

Another broken promise from a GOP political hack.

JJBiener & JonathanCid
I applaud your comments regarding illegal immigration. Sadly the conservatives use the Christian ticket to endorse their agenda, but not what the Bible says!

It is also not uncommon for a small group of vociferous people to raise a storm, claiming they represent the view of Americans. And polls...we saw you can shop a poll supporting your view at a dime a dozen. I have participated in polls, and realize how skewed questionnaires can be. The questions are so tightly structured, so that you can never express an exception or a middle ground view. So a question like "do you support illegal immigration?" will get a majority of negative answers, but it does not address the many culpability, justice issues etc. that relate to illegal immigrants in the US today.

To the "representatives of the American" view who seek support from Congress etc. consider Tancredo's failed bid & Huckabee's falling numbers as soon as the Tancredo supporters in his camp forced him to change his position on Illegal immigration....Maybe it was God....

baseballdoc
With all due respect, your logic requires rational thinking informed voters. They are far and few between. The same phenomenen that gives us stock market bubbles and crashes swings its way back and forth amongst the political parties. The difference is the irrational exhuberance in the market is by a relatively small subset of educated and knowledgeable folks compared to the general population. Some might say it is the informed knowledgeable voter that, at the margin, makes the difference in the elections. I believe that influence is minor. The true swing voters, the ones that make the difference in this age of universal suffrage are the same ones that cast ballots for tv idols.


liz
writes, "Sadly the conservatives use the Christian ticket to endorse their agenda, but not what the Bible says!"

I think the ones you are referring to represent a relatively small subset of christians. They are loud though. I believe in unlimited legal immigration and zero illegal immigration. Welcome all through the gate and have a really big fence to make sure everyone coming in gets documented.

McCain is 71!
I wouldn't hold my breath expecting him to: a)change; b) listen to anyone; c) care about what you think.

Disappointed.

Brian
"There's lots of polling data out there, and none of it supports your posit."

Really?

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll:

"Creating a program that would allow illegal immigrants already living in the United States for a number of years to stay in this country and apply for U.S. citizenship if they had a job and paid back taxes"

Favor 80%
Oppose 19%
Unsure 1%

CBS/NYT Poll:

"Overall, would you say most recent immigrants to the United States contribute to this country, or do most of them cause problems?"

Contribute 57%
Cause Problems 28%

"Do you think illegal immigrants coming to this country today take jobs away from American citizens, or do they mostly take jobs Americans don't want?"

Take unwanted jobs 59%
Take jobs away 30%

"If you had to choose, what do you think should happen to most illegal immigrants who have lived and worked in the United States for at least two years? They should be given a chance to keep their jobs and eventually apply for legal status. OR, They should be deported back to their native country."

Chance to Keep Jobs 62%
Deported 33%

"Would you favor or oppose a program allowing people from other countries to be guest workers in the U.S. for a temporary period of time, and then be required to return to their home country?"

Favor 66%
Oppose 30%

LAT/Bloomberg Poll

"One proposal would allow undocumented immigrants who have been living and working in the United States for a number of years, and who do not have a criminal record, to start on a path to citizenship by registering that they are in the country, paying a fine, getting fingerprinted, and learning English, among other requirements. Do you support or oppose this, or haven't you heard enough about it to say?"

Favor 63%
Oppose 23%

I can post more if you like, but I think the point has been made.

Brian R. Obama'r rookie status...
I find it hard to agree with the assessment that Obama will do little harm because he is a rookie. Rookies can be very dangerous when they have a powerful rod to wield. If elected President he will be the commander in chief, have veto power and a tremendous deal of power of executive appointments etc. With a 20 year alliance with a man like Pastor Wright, who Obama claims is a mentor, I will be wary. In addition Obama has proven far left liberal in his positions supporting sex ed. for young children & unrestricted abortion, whatever the age of the fetus.

Hitchhiker...
Hitchhiker,

Your comment calls for a response because there are a rabid few who would hold your view!

I do not support illegal immigration. If you read your Bible (not listen to talk radio, Tancredo or your neighbor who can't get a job, because the illegal is more reliable and efficient), you will find that it refers to how strangers have to be treated, and about justice where civil laws are broken.

Many of those who think differently from you, are asking for just that. Fair treatment and justice, especially because there have been serious lapses in enforcement before, because the government found it convenient. Ultimately we are dealing with human beings and families whose lives and futures are at stake.

If your ancestor immigrants were forced out because the native Indians had been more effective, or because your ancestors were Irish, Italian or Chinese, and you had a real grievance, I would have taken the same position.

I have a sister in law
who has milked the system most of her 37 years. She had children by a deadbeat who is now serving a long term prison sentence for assault. Both of the children have been taught to milk the system and "use" other human beings.

My s-i-l burned herself out with alcohol and drugs... and proceeded to get a Dr to diagnose her as bi-polar... and 100% disabled.

Her two children are able bodied and in their early 20's. They resist looking for work. My mother in law used her influence at work to get them jobs in a very good company. They soon tired of it and pretty much rejected the idea that someone had a "right" to make them work for a living. Both have been in trouble with the law. Both use drugs and drink. Both are sexually immoral. Both are abusive toward my in-laws. Both have stolen....

Recently, Obama and Hillary apparently agreed that inheritance taxes should be raised to 45% to fund healthcare for the uninsured... to include these two immoral people who refuse to work for a living.... who have had great opportunities dropped in their lap only to refuse to do their part.

This is precisely why we can't afford for liberals to regain control. To make their system of provided everything to everyone... they MUST get in the business of running people's lives even more.

As Jefferson said, a gov't with the power to provide you with everything you desire is a gov't powerful enough to take everything you have.

reply to: JJBiener
About your selective stats suggesting Americans might be somewhat favorably disposed to ILLEGAL aliens... I can provide NUMEROUS surveys/polls which show a different humor entirely. One key is how the questions are asked... consider one of yours:

"Overall, would you say most recent immigrants to the United States contribute to this country, or do most of them cause problems?"

That is a vague/misleading and loaded question... most people think of true legal immigrants when they see that, but the game being played is to conflate them with ILLEGAL aliens. Demographically, America DOES need EDUCATED, skilled immigrants who want to assimilate-- see college educated engineers, computer specialists, etc. Those true immigrants contribute more than they take back in services.

But the vast, madding crowd of ILLEGAL aliens are typically ignorant and indigent when they arrive, so they inexorably have concomitant tendencies toward pandemic social pathologies and become HUGE net users of govt. services.

I will post other survey stats shortly which suggest a whole different perspective from a clear majority-- much depends on the agenda of those doing the polling.

JJBiener
I actually started reading comments from the bottom up, so I'll confess I don't know what the polling beef with Brian was about. I will say, however, that you can find a poll that says anything you want it to say. Without knowing too much about what your position might have been, I see that yours were sponsored by organizations like CBS, CNN, NY Times and LA Times, which are not exactly bastions of journalistic neutrality. I would have to imagine that viewers/readers will mirror what they're fed on a daily basis. I'm guessing Brian will be right back with opinion polls from Fox.

the views of the body politic
The general public clearly favors REAL immigration reform (BUT not Scamnesty posing as "C.I.R."). Poll after poll shows that Americans want well-enforced, sensible, and sustainable immigration laws and LEGAL immigration of the educated and skilled who can be positive contributors on balance.

* 89% of Americans think illegal immigration into the U.S. is a problem (30% "extremely serious," 33% "very serious," and 26% "somewhat serious." (Time Magazine)

* 82% think that not enough is being done along the borders to keep illegal immigrants from crossing into the country. (New York Times/CBS 2007)

* 68% feel that the number of immigrants who cross the border, whether legal or illegal is “too high”. (Polling Company)

* 62% oppose making it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens of America. (Quinnipiac Univ.)

*71% believe that illegal immigrants should not qualify for in-state tuition rates at colleges and universities.

*77% oppose making drivers' licenses available to illegal immigrants.

*71% favor requiring foreign visitors to carry universal I.D. card.

*77% say that employers can require English-only on the job, and 89% favor making it the official/only language of government.

The PC ilk, the MSM, ethnocentric Hispanic groups, and the open borders, globalist, miscreant employer types barrage us with disingenuous info, but Middle America IS righteously indignant about ILLEGALS. If not stopped and reversed via enforcement of EXISTING laws, which would lead to attritive repatriation, they will morph us into a third world barrio.

JJBiener writes:
Monday, March, 31, 2008 3:47 PM
Brian
"There's lots of polling data out there, and none of it supports your posit."

What a crock! Are those the percentages that killed the "Amnesty Bill" last year? Are you quoting polls of hispanics?

I think that you have the percentages right...just the favor and oppose in the wrong positions. It wasn't a poll that rose up against the Washington establishment. It was 80% of the American people minus illegal aliens.

Alisa, Lodestar
The purpose of my post was to point out that you can make the polling data say pretty much anything you want. Brian claimed that all the polling data supported his position. He even provided a link.

The problem was that the link he provided was to a site that cherry-picked only those poll stats which supported a particular position. What I did was go to another site which had more poll data and cherry-picked poll data which opposed his position.

The point was that no one can claim, "The American people believe..." with anything approaching accuracy. Certainly not based on polling data. So Lodestar, your post is no more valid than Brian's or mine. You will see what you want to see in the numbers. Just don't think you know what Americans really want.

lodestar...my...my...
Lodestar,

"pandemic social pathologies"???and you take of vague, and misleading loaded questions????

You have got a problem brother...do you judge what you believe??? when you can write such "loaded generalizations" that don't mean a twit in terms of conveying anything of value.

I guess the Irish potato farmers when they came to America were wealthy, "lacking in pandemic social pathologies." The only reason they could not use the govt. was because you did not have a welfare state. The illegals cannot access welfare...so I guess there is some correlation:) that you will not care to admit...

lodestar even with those polls
we cant get the extortionists in washington to do the right thing. We need to clean house. But it aint gunna happen. An object in motion tends to stay in motion... unless a lot of energy is applied in the opposite direction.

The Democrats Outsmarted Us
Star-

I agree with you on everything in this article except for when you call McCain a "conservative" by signing your fellow conservative. Perhaps this was a joke?
McCain is not "conservative" and everyone knows it. By Democrats crossing over to voter for him in open elections, liberal states being moved to vote sooner in the primary voting schedule, and the "conservative" vote fractured and blindly backing other various candidates, McCain came out ahead during the Republican Primaries. Now the liberals and Democrats have two candidates to choose from in November. Either way, they win. They outsmarted us. Can anyone smell the beginning of a new third party?

Well Done Star !

2,300,000 Americans shouldn't be sitting in Prison.

They should have had a Family and a Government... Bent on making sure these once innocent children, didn't pick up that one-way ticket to Hell!

Obama and Clinton will just add to those numbers, and John McCain is already too concerned with his own legacy to give a damn.

Millions of Americans are not eligible to work, and are sucking America dry because of a felony prison record... And all John McCain cares about is G-D Global Warming and helping illegal aliens get a welfare check.

Sickening!

Question for Star???
If Star does not agree with the 'promiscuous use of government power to pretend to solve every domestic challenge we have.', why does Star believe that we should use the government power to address out of wedlock birth? Or any of the other issues she brought up?

Star is requesting the governement and our leaders to step in on moral issues while condemning the idea of the government stepping in on financial issues.

I understand her letter and it is heartwarming and well written...my question is: What does she want John McCain to do about it?

I hope she isn't advocating telling our allies that we are morally better than they are? Is she wanting McCain to give speaches on how important it is to go to church? Is she wanting McCain to set up gov't programs to help out all of the 'misled' felons serving time in prison?

She is condemning government intervention and in the same breath asking for it.

The breakdown of the American family is not caused by the government, it's caused by parents.

I like her eutopian outlook. I just don't understand what she is looking for or why she thinks a politician/government should provide it.

The best strategy
I think at this point, the logical thing for limited government conservatives to do is focus on the Senate races. The reason is that Daschle and Reid, thinking only of the short-term, implemented a 60% majority rule for the Senate. The majority still needs 60 votes for any and every little thing, internal and external. (The House is a lost cause because it is majority vote).

Identify Republican Senate candidates who are willing to think in terms of limiting government versus solving social problems. Find and remind them that their position hinges on fidelity with you, and that the screws McCain puts on them (if he gets elected, which is questionable) will be nothing compared to the screws activist conservatives in their district will put on them should they fail to adhere to limited government standards. Life won't be easy for them for the next four years, but the President will eventually go away; you will always be there. This is their chance to be heroes.

The good thing is that Senators are generally individualistic in their behavior, whereas Representatives are very much "team players," exhibiting solidarity. I won't go into the reasons for that here, but given that Senators are individualistic, they are more willing to break ranks with a Republican President, which would be necessary in the next four years if McCain gets elected.

Think about it: A mere 40 solid conservative Senators can stop everything that a liberal House, Senate, and President try to do for the next four years.

...
In re-reading my post, I must note an obvious pitfall: Individualistic Senators may become so arrogant that they break ranks with their voters. Even so, I think it is our best shot.

Sick & tired
What about getting the systm CHANGED, it's time we voters get a say who runs and unless we change the primary system we are screwed. Take it back from the party bosses and make it short and sweet this thing has been going on since super tuesday, enough already!!! All on one day and the people won'r be subjected to months and months of B---S---. Think of all the millions of dollars going into the tv adds and all the mud slinginG we are subjected to. Sick of POLITICS AS USUAL. I want my vote to matter and right now it is as worthless as a the bums we are suposed to vote for. It's up to the people to change it or just continue to be one of the heard

reply to: liz
re:
liz writes: Monday, March, 31, 2008 5:25 PM
***************************************************

I would try to reply to your post that appears to attack my points, except that your post is unintelligible... I teach business and econ at the college level-- I could recommend grammar and diction options for you.

You make some comment that ILLEGALS cannot access welfare, which is both untrue (see anchor babies as a gateway) and largely misses the point. Legally, ILLEGALS are not supposed to be able to receive what we commonly call welfare, but they are regularly devastating social service delivery systems in many areas--> hospitals, schools, law enforcement, etc. are facing daunting burdens without corresponding taxes or insurance to cover them.

You also seem to liken poor Irish who came here long ago to ILLEGAL aliens today, but the Irish came here legally, and the America they came to then was vastly different. As I said below, today's America DOES need immigrants-- provided that they are educated and skilled. By contrast, social pathologies DO correlate to poverty and ignorance-- hence high rates of crimes, gangs, illegitimacies, dropouts, etc. among ILLEGAL aliens, and the poor generally-- NOT opinion, but probative fact.

thank you, Wobbie...
for validating one of my points! If you were more cognitively endowed, you might have realized that I was making the point (countering "liz") that one cannot liken ILLEGAL aliens coming here today to poor Irish of 100+ years ago, who immigrated LEGALLY to an America with a totally different economy in terms of sophistication.

Hey, Wobbie-- is "liz" one of your phantom alter egos here?! That would explain her incoherence and vacuity!

Shame on me... I forgot and fed the trolls!

Grandma I agree
With most of your post regarding that we should go back to only one primary day. This nonsense and pulling out the files over months and months has become sickening. We know that Obama has a racist friend and minister in Wright and also Al Sharpton. We also know that HRC & Bill have enough scandal to fill a book, so have them sling it before the primary and be over with it. Of course would all of this have come out if there was only one date? We can only guess.

One disagreement, you said "It's up to the people to change it or just continue to be one of the heard."

We need to be one of the "HEARD," but NOT one of the HERD! We need to be listened to!

Stupidest analogy award of the year
"I appreciate your concern for how we are treating the 600 or so detainees we are holding in Guantanamo. But have you thought about the 2.3 million of our own citizens -- 1 percent of our adult population -- in prison? Ten percent of black men between 20 and 34 are in prison or jail."



lodestar writes: "Shame on me...I forgot

and fed the trolls!" Yes you did! :-(

We're all pretty much hoping that if we simply ignore them, they'll just go away....

Kind of like the illegal aliens who can no longer find work. No work, no reason to stay. hehehehehe




lodestar: And one more thing... :-)
When was the last time one of those trolls you fed actually posted something that was accurate, and worthwhile???

Heck, most of them aren't even coherent!






Bravo
Well said Star. You cvered everything well.

Rockhead J Squirrel Scribbles:
I admit that your post have little
lodestar writes: Monday, March, 31, 2008 7:16 PM ...

coherence in them, hence your babbling to some person who is not on the thread...and so I really dont read them for a "Lot" ...but

you are very not informed on the concepts of Irish and now Mexican immigration.

it fits your incoherence on names. I dont know if you are having a "lumberjack" moment (ie old and having some mental problems) or are the "BrianR" problem...trying to be a tough guy by insults.

It is humerous in either fashion...LOl

But you dont understand the immigration issues.

F minus for you

Robert

Your post are always sickly HUMOROUS.

lodestar: I was just going to post

something to you and noticed that our resident limited troll.. whom you've fed...(shame on you!)
just gave you an "F."

Just so you know, that "F" is for

* * * * * * * * * F A B U L O U S! * * * * * * * * * *


I'm just so excited about your "FABULOUS" that I forgot what I was going to share with you...


Oh, no more feeding the trolls! :-)



brian r, queev7...
I guess i forgot..that you live in calif.,brian.
Great state..huh?! smile. Becoming a 3rd world
situation here, wouldn't you say?

comservative solution: I went to the local water co. today to take care of business--closed!Caeser
chavez holiday!All we need is to come up with about 200 non-heros like chavez..and close the gmnt. down! We all form our own militia..put up our own state border fences!Just Imagine--50 states with a fence around it! By gawd Iam going to get security one way or the other!And you beter have at least 6 I.D.'s or Iam gonna blow your brains from here to eternity with my daniel boone rifle ! And I dont care what color your skin is--polka dot,striped or both!
GLOBAL WARMING-- shut Al gores big mouth up! With all that hot air shut down we'll probaly go artic in less than 30 days!!
queen7-- I was considering write-in for Mitt too! But give the guy a break-- he probably got asked a million times why he looks so good for an ol geezer of 60/61 yrs. of age! And just about as many questions about where he buys his MOUSSE(sp) for his hair!Also tired of explaining the math of how 85% of the people who are liberal
in a state can win more battles than 1 governor!
Real difficult math for most bloggers that I have read!
elvis

sorry..spelling
Was bad in my last blogg! Thats because I have a
degreee from HARVARD AND YALE!
elvis

Hal / Robert
You mentioned the outlook in Basra? How is it looking now that Sadr has issued a cease fire? Is it holding up? Is he knuckling to Maliki's authority? This is the first sectarian threat to the federal government being handled by the federal government. The outcome is very important and so far we have maintained a fairly lassez faire approach and Maliki seems to have taken the reigns. A good sign I would say.

I don't think many people realize how much actual control has been ceded to the Iraqi's. The MSM is trying hard to keep up the defeatist attitude until November. The effect Iraq ultimately has on Iran could be completely different from what many might predict.

hittchiker

In an effort to curb the growing violence, two senior Shiite lawmakers close to al-Maliki -- Hadi al-Amri and Ali al-Adeeb -- traveled to Iran and asked authorities there to stop the flow of weapons to al-Sadr's Mahdi Army, according to two officials.

The lawmakers -- both of whom have close ties to Iran -- also asked the Iranians to pressure al-Sadr to come up with a face-saving initiative, according to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.



you got the facts wrong as did mccain.
maliki sent envoys to sadr and used iran to help him get a cease fire.

sadr is the winner here.

he was told by maliki that he was through in basra.

lets look at the result.

sadr controls everything he did before the offensive began and forced maliki to have to back down.

now what concerns me most is that iran has become the power broker in iraq.

is that what we have shed so much blood and treasure for?

to allow iran to dictate what goes on in iraq.

i mean do you realize that maliki and most of his government officials were in exile in iran during saddam's rule and that sadr stayed.

sadr is considered a hero for doing so and now he has backed down the maliki government.

at this point he has more power than maliki not only militarily but politically.

what a mess we have caused.

I'm embarrased for the author
This is one of the worst written pieces I've seen anywhere for some time. I can't resopnd to it because I have no idea what the point of this is. The article rambles aimlessly from one point to the next, and most of the points are only vaguely related to each other. If she had a point maybe she can try again to say what it was.

Constitutional duties of a president
Star - the president is not constitutionally required to figure out why 40% of babies are born out of wedlock, or why people tried to buy homes they could not afford or any other socio-economic issues you have listed. The president is however, required by the constitution, to be commander in chief. That is why McCain should focus on his constitutional duties and allow the socio-economic issues to be handled by other govt. officials like congress men and women. As for looking for common ground - how about asking what you can do for your country instead of what your country can do for you - huh? Finally, Barak is bi-racial, not black....just words!

Sarah: BHO, who also said that...

if one of his daughters made a mistake.... he wouldn't want her PUNISHED with a baby....

And who also equated VD with a pregnancy....


Same guy who voted... in his state... for medical treatment to be withheld from any baby who survived an abortion.


Funny thing for a guy to say whose mother clearly made a "mistake" but chose NOT to abort him when the father abandoned them...



Lodestar, if you were Irish...
If you were Irish, there was a time you could not get employment. There were signs for hiring and it would state "Irish need not apply"...There is a close relation to the Hispanic situation and the Irish (or other immigrant groups that were treated badly) situation, in that the government impliedly permitted Hispanics to cross the border, for various like cheap labor. So the question of legality and illegality in such a case can be disputed. Both groups were discriminated against. After a process of integration they were able to contribute to society and were able to establish themselves.

Anti-immigrant sentiment is hardly the hot issue it is projected to be. If it was John McCain would not have won a state like SC! A conservative state that would have hardly supported the McCain if they were so against his position on immigration. I strongly believe we will see the Hispanic vote make a decisive impact on the election in November. They will also vote in members to Congress who will take a pragmatic and just approach to dealing with illegal immigration.

Those voicing anti-immigrant sentiment who contact their senators or representatives are a relative few, compared to those who do not bother. It is clear however that those who do not bother have an opinion as well, and what we are seeing is that they would opt for a just solution. The hatred seen by the few who voice their opinion can hardly be said to be the opinion of the majority.

Future elections will prove what is true...At present, McCain's nomination has proved it. Similarly, Tancredo's bid demise and Duncan Hunter and Huckabee's losses, though they had an anti-illegal platform, reinforces this position even further.

Queenmum
I've been considering the Mitt option myself. I haven't decided what I will do regarding POTUS as yet, it depends on his veep choice.

seesthelight AMEN

Wondering why we are in the mess we are in? It's because we have turned away as a people from our judeo/christian heritage. We have been a blessed land for most of our history, til some 50 years ago when God was slowly removed from the public square and humanisms god of self replaced Him.
We can come up with schemes and ideas about how
to overcome the terrible situation we find ourselves in but nothing will come of it unless
God is for us. I think He's lifted his hand
maybe not completely but enough to allow us to do that which is right in our own eyes til we
are so down the only way is to look up to Him
and pray for deliverance. We believers have
to decide to start on our knees, praying as He
told us in 2 Chron. 7:14 that he forgive us and heal our land. It's the only answer, the only option, anything else is gum on a leaky dam.

Sarah
The President is more than just Commander in Chief. He is bound, by oath, to uphold the constitution. The constitution gives us rights to free speech, to peaceable assembly, to firearms, to choose our own religion, to vote, to own property.....

It is much more than a document about military defense. I agree that we should not be a "nanny" state, but the economic security of our nation is as important as national defense, and the moral character of our people is the lynchpin to our defense of freedom and of our way of life. No one piece of the puzzle can exist without the others.

Please stop trying to denigrate those who have not been blinded by party rhetoric. Some of us have been in politics a long time and frankly, it is tiresome.


liz: Your post is fraught with

inaccuracies...

First of all, those whom you refer to as "Anti-immigrant sentiment" is actually "Anti-ILLEGAL Immigration."

There is a HUGE difference between being "anti-immigrant" and "anti-illegal immigrant."

And it's NOT a difficult concept to master.

And, I'm not sure why you think it "is hardly the hot issue it is projected to be."

You've obviously forgotten how the American citizens faxed, emailed, petitioned, and called their Congressmen to veto the "Amnesty Bill."

You say, "I strongly believe we will see the Hispanic vote make a decisive impact on the election in November."

Now would that be Hispanics who are American citizens who are eligible to vote? Or would that be illegal aliens who are not eligible to vote, but will obtain illegal fraudulent documentation?


"They [legal or illegal aliens?] will also vote in members to Congress who will take a pragmatic and just approach to dealing with illegal immigration."

Exactly what would you consider a "pragmatic and just approach?"

Here's an idea that's pragmatic and just, dealing with people who break our laws and come here ILLEGALLY.... send them home!



P.S. I fixed your spelling errors. Your welcome.

Liz
First, the Irish did not come here illegally, so what is your point.

Second, 85% of the American people, including an overwhelming majority of legal immigrants, were against the amnesty bill.

Third, Mccain won S.C. with less than 1/3 of the vote and he did not win the majority of republicans. That means 2/3 of the people voted against him, and about 80% of republicans.

Immigration in the 19th and the early part of the 20th century was highly controlled. Ever hear of Ellis Island? The reason we took in so many people was because we needed workers for the factories. Ever hear of the industrial revolution?

The estimated 20 million illegal immigrants in our country today have driven down wages, driven up crime rates, bankrupted school systems and closed hospitals. They have also taken employment from millions of Americans.






boomerbabe
actually most of the irish arrived before there were any immigration laws.

the first broad restrictive immigration law was the reed-johnson law of 1924.

there were other laws prior to this but they were aimed at asians.

religiouslib
It is quite messy. I have to say, though, that avoiding messes is hardly a good national security strategy, post 9/11. You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

If Sadr does come out smelling like a rose, how is he going to move forward? Seek political power himself or more probably using proxies. Perhaps he has just made one out of Maliki. That seems the Islamic way. The real power lies in the hands of the clerics anyway.

I think it is still hard to predict the eventual outcome. There is no question that Islam and sharia would be important. Traditionally, the more radical elements have been kept in check by monarchs or dictators who carefully balanced the people's desire for Islamic law with their desire for commerce and technology from the West. How is a republic going to balance that? With many countries finding themselves increasingly pressed like Pakistan, Egypt, Lebanon, but most troubling the rise of pan arab al queda has necessitated a different approach.

The post Saddam Iraq, however it turns out, cannot possibly be any worse than the former regardless of what many try to claim.

How is a free country to react to the country that created it, gave birth to it, and helped it stand up and start walking? We are not nearly as disliked as Sadr would like the world to believe. He is merely using us as a convenient lever to extract power for himself. He has to present himself as the savior to his people and we are very handy and easily roused up against in any Islamic country. He is merely exploiting the situation as al queda did before him. Since they have been marginalized, he is moving to consolidate his power and territory that he can just as the kurds and sunni have.

Not enough space to go into all that could happen. I still think the cost was and continues to be worth it in the long run. The american public hates the long run. We have 30 minute attention spans.

2,300,000 Prisoners...

Most of these folks were slapped on the wrist for one or more previous offenses, and then proceeded to committ worse offense as a result.

Like that nice Psychologist's dog, they learned that crime is rewarded and reinforced in America.

Are we sure we want to Slap 20 million "illegal" aliens on the wrist?

religiouslib
I am sorry but you are only partially correct. Ellis island opened on January 1, 1892. Many of the Irish came through there and many were turned away because of illness and an inability to work. While the Reed-Johnson law of 1924 more broadly restricted immigration, there were restrictions before then. Reed-Johnson simply made those restrictions law. The Irish who came before there were actual laws did not come here illegally. The millions of Mexicans crossing our borders are violating the law, hence they are illegal.


yes or no, period !
Your either for illegal immigration or your against it! Period! And any spinning is pure BS!
we are for illegal hitting somebody or we are not! We are for illegal taking money from someone or we are not.etc!
Solutions can vary all over the place..but the
law has to be respected! And kennedy/mc cain..no!
elvis

Robert,
I thought your Huckabee was against illegal immigration? Didn't he sign a contract saying that he would deport illegals? Was he not telling the truth? And I thought Mccain had heard the american people on this issue. Is he lying too? Imagine that.

hitchhiker
very impressive.

you have a good handle on it, i agree with your synopsis up to the conclusion. lol


i believe maliki was also using this moment to marginalize an opponent (using us as his proxy ace in the hole).

i believe malike is more influenced by iran than the nationalist sadr.

sadr has the masses behind him even now more, and in reality, his political block in parliament is pivotal to getting anything getting done.

here is my concern.

it appears to me that no matter what we do, this is going to end up as an islamic republic with nominal civil laws but run by sharia law.

now i agree that it is no worse than saddam, and i will agree that there is a glimmer of chance that this could turn out good for america.
i will rate that glimmer at 20%.

most americans, including myself, don't think this war has been worth it because it is obvious by now that iraq is such a mess, they really don't represent to our national security.

they are so busy settling their own scores they could care less about us.

now i think we should pull back to edge of the country and use special ops to stay after "real" terrorists.

by that i mean the foreigners that are the suicide bombers not the iraqis fighting each other.

we keep enough of a force to step in if things start to get out of hand but other than that we stand back and let them settle it.

i am sure you don't agree but at least its a plan.

i still see no strategic plan from bush or mccain other than "maintaining order until...."

well there is my assessment.

thanks for your thoughtful and civil response.

i love throwing ideas back and forth.

Robert,
Here is your reality. People in California, Arizona and Colorado, just to name a few, have overwhelmingly passed laws to keep illegals from receiving benefits and being allowed to take jobs from Americans. Liberal judges have thwarted the will of the people and have struck down many of these initiatives.

Whole communities are going bankrupt giving illegals free medical care and schooling. By the way Robert, can you just walk into a hospital and get free care? And can you go to a neighboring state and get in state tuition? Oh, and can you just not pay your taxes or apply for a loan without a social security number? Just asking.


Anne: thank you for correcting my typos!
Anne, thank you for correcting my typos...You do a good job of that for many on the site:)

I blog a lot, work etc. so I tend to get careless unless I think the meaning is completely off. I may refer to the McCain/Kennedy Bill and then refer to McCain and forget to delete the "the." But thank you for being so picky, and gracious! gracias...

Hitchhiker Iraq is not just messy
It has become a disaster. Despite the admin's efforts to paint this mission as a war on terror, the events of last week make it clear that it has become a civil war.

As bad as it is for the US to be taking sides in a civil war, the side we're backing has even stronger ties to Iran than al-Sadr.

And to make matters even worse, while the admin's has been playing see no evil in terms of sectarianism, the Iranians have recognized the conflict for exactly what it is, and have been supporting all of the involved parties. The result is that no matter which faction comes out on top, the Iranians have the war in Iraq.

You're not his fellow conservative, Star
Because John McCain is, by no definition of mine, a conservative. While he is not the full blown leftist fascist that Hitlary is, or the complete communist that Baracka is, not to even mention the possibility, even probability of his Islamism, John McCain, is, nevertheless, at best, a corrupted capitalist..corrupted by liberalism.

My Letter to John:
Dear Senator McCain:

I would certainly like to believe that you are a "real" conservative; unfortunately, we both know that's not true. I will vote for you in November, not because you have inspired me as a leader or because I have confidence in your ability to make decisions, but because I see you as the least harmful to America.

When you have announced your VP, I will decide if I will contribute to you. Especially in this time of market unstability, Mitt Romney would be an excellent choice. If Rev. Wright's hate-filled Anti-American sermons are not an important issue, the Mormon religion wouldn't be either. America could certainly use Mitt's expertise right now.

If you should become the POTUS, I will respect you because of the office you hold, and for no other reason. I ask that you conduct yourself with dignity and excellence. We also ask that you maintain our Founders' intention when they wrote the Constitution; it's perfect clarity of promising our soverienty and our God-given rights. Do not diminsh them.




Robert
We're not leaving Iraq in substantial numbers any time soon no matter who wins the election.

Try googling Iraqi constitution 2008. You will find virtually nothing because the amendments that everyone agreed were essential to victory in Iraq 3 years ago have yet to even be addressed in committee. No oil law either.

The Basra debacle has shown that the so-called Iraqi Army, actually just a collection of militas, is incapable of taking out minor mortar positions without US help. They have no air power, heavy artillery, or self sufficient supply lines.

Most importantly, and most depressing, Iran has played this adminstration like a cheap violin since they foisted the double agent Chalibi on Cheney's office. And now, whoever wins the provincial elections, SCII, JAM, DA'WA, it doesn't matter, they're in Iran's back pocket.





bryce
so then why don't you think we should get out in a careful organized way?

we are simply paying money to all sides to get them to stop fighting.

a reporter for world news was on with john stewart and said he spent a day with an officer walking around with a backpack full of money, paying off iraqis for deaths in thier families, even those who the officer knew had been shooting at and killing americans.

its like we are bribing them.

we are playing both ends against the middle and its going to catch up to us.

that is why i sometimes think i would rather have mccain elected this time so he has to deal with the war and economic disasters bush is leaving the next president.

religiouslib
I agree with everything you're saying, in fact I think the chances of US friendly secular gov't are dashed. But here is the dilema. Whatever happens in Iraq, it is our doing, we overthrew the gov't and promised Iraqis a better life. If we pull back and let them settle their own scores the civilians we're supposed to be liberating will pay the price. So, while I can't say I like the idiots in the WH and the Pentagon putting us in this position, IMHO we have a moral obligation to stay in significant numbers until the Iraqis truly can govern and protect themselves.

Well Robert
As I said in an earlier post, none of the candidates will pull out of Iraq anytime soon. They're called campaign promises.

FreedomKnight Shining Light is Dim
Wow. Don't hate America because she's beautiful. And America IS beautiful. Don't be a hater.

Our Constitution and our Bill of Rights are not Top-Secret; the whole world has the opportunity to be as productive and prosperous as we are. Those documents are the recipe; ANY country can see what made us really great. The reason third-world countries live like that is because dictators are allowed, by their citizens, to dictate. America fought her revolution and she won her independance. Recall, the REVOLUTIONALRY WAR? Our ancestors broke off the chains that bound us. Our BRILLIANT founders built excellence.

This is a FREE society, which entitles you to leave if you hate the American way of life. You are free. You can leave at any time to travel abroad to people who are in dire need of your help. YOU can help them; go make a difference in the world's problems since you know what they need. Go solve problems, since you seem to have it all figured out....

The reason America consumes so much energy is because we are productive. Free people are free to come up with the coolest inventions. Don't hate American because we are ingenious.

We Were Right
George W. Bush did not lie the United States into war in Iraq. He never told the people of the United States that we were going to war because Saddam Hussein had WMD. All of the representatives who voted to give George W. Bush the power to go to war in Iraq were neither fooled nor confused. The war in Iraq was the result of a very clear and worldwide agreement that no one knew whether or not Saddam Hussein had WMD. That is what the UN resolution was all about.

We watched news report after news report about weapons inspectors trying to do their job in Iraq. We heard time and again that Saddam Hussein refused to allow the weapons inspectors to do their job. We remember the UN resolution which stated that if Saddam Hussein did not allow those inspectors to do their job that we would go in.

No matter how the media and the Democrats and the America haters try to spin it, they cannot change the fact that Saddam Hussein chose to break that resolution, to defy the will of the modern world, and bring war to his land. In the age of terror, we were right not to ignore his old world mentality. We saw what he did to the people of Kurdistan. We knew what he was capable of. The world had every right to demand certainty. The world did demand it.

John McCain was right about the surge. I will vote for because of that and because he is a better choice than either of the Democrats. I hope that he picks a Vice President who is strong on the military. Mike Huckabee proposed Reagan-level military power and a Veteran's Bill of Rights. If he is on the ticket, I will vote easier.

The chief argument for war with Iraq
Was the meetings with AQ in Prague, roving chemical lab, aluminum tube, mushroom cloud as smoking gun argument. To say that the war was not sold on WMD and links with AQ defies reality.

As to the success of the surge, have you been watching the news lately? The surge was all about the big boogey man AQ and fighting the terrorist there so we would have to fight them here. Well, as we now see, this is, despite admin assertions, alway was, a civil war. The 'surge' is a fantasy.

However, upon reflection the 'surge' was in fact a success for some in the region. Al-Sadr was able to make a deal to protect his forces while the Americans took care of AQ.

And as I have been saying, the ultimate winner in the whole scenario is Iran.

liz: Please........

185 words about your inaccuracies and assumptions regarding ILLEGALS, and YOU focus on me correcting your spelling?

Apparently you missed that I was focused on your accusations regarding those who are "anti-immigration" when IN FACT, they are actually "Anti-ILLEGAL Immigration."

I am not, nor do I know anyone who is anti-immigration. I AM, however, VERY MUCH opposed to anyone entering my country ILLEGALLY.

How about this......as of Nov. 2006,

"Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens .... it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001."

Opposed to the total U.S. troop deaths in Iraq during the SAME PERIOD were reported at 2,863.

There is a HUGE difference between being "anti-immigrant" and "anti-illegal immigrant."

OR... how about the $300 billion a year illegal aliens cost this country???

OR... how about the Americans whose identity has been stolen, and lives ruined by illegal aliens?

Or... how about the disease that's brought into our country by illegal aliens, such as drug resistant tuberculosis, and lets not forget leprosy...


Again, I ask, exactly what would you consider a "pragmatic and just approach?"


Will he listen?
Not likely...

reply to: liz
re:
liz writes: Monday, March, 31, 2008 10:12 PM
Lodestar, if you were Irish...

*************************************************
Actually, I am a good amount Irish... it is RIDICULOUS to conflate the poor Irish of long ago with ILLEGAL aliens. They came LEGALLY to an America that was agrarian-based... they already spoke English... they RELISHED the idea of assimilating and becoming Americans, and there was no welfare state for them to leech upon.The uneducated like Andrew Carnegie really could do very well via hard work and brains. Today's advanced service economy will not make socio-economic successes of willfully culturally disparate ignorant, indigent Hispanic ILLEGAL aliens.

As for how hot anti-ILLEGAL sentiment is and how to explain McAmnesty's nomination, he did a mea culpa and pretended to have clearly gotten the message form America-- what, pray tell, was that message?! Then he got a huge assist from the MSM (embracing the iconoclast CINO) who kept telling us he was "electable." Exit polls showed that those who voted for McCain did NOT think he shared their values, but thought he would protect America, AND they believed he had reversed course and would stop ILLEGAL aliens.

The Hispanic vote was just 6% in 2006; it is racist to assume that they would all vote pro-ILLEGAL. Half of them in Az. voted for tough new anti-ILLEGAL state measures in '06, which are resulting in repatriation back to Mexico from Az.

As for the demise of Congressional candidates Hunter and Tancredo, we do not elect members of the House-- never have. Too obscure. Mitt came close and was conspicuously anti-ILLEGAL; McVain flip-flopped and said he would enforce the law. Next attempted point? Congress was BARRAGED with opposition to Kennedy-Mcamnesty, and pols said it was the hottest topic wherever they went; Shrillary stumbled badly on the drivers' license issue; her worst tactical error per the MSM.

the red herring "racism" tag
Some from the left/big govt. side like to vacuously assert that it is simply a vocal minority of "racists" which opposes ILLEGAL aliens. This is red herring, arrant nonsense. There are myriad surveys, even by bastions of liberalism like the N.Y. Times (see my post here: Monday, March, 31, 2008 4:34 PM) which clearly show that a substantial majority wants ILLEGALS stopped from coming here, and if presented with alternatives to naturalization, much prefers them.

"Racism" truly is a loaded and vacuous calumny term... about half of Hispanics in Az. (the state most plagued by ILLEGALS, so it knows their socio-economic burdens best) voted for TOUGH new anti-ILLEGAL alien state law measures in '06... are we to assume that all of those Hispanics who voted to stanch ILLEGALS were racist?!

Many of us simply do not want ignorant, indigent, willfully culturally disparate ILLEGALS of ANY ORIGIN coming and staying here, because they presage a plethora of socio-economic ills. This includes the 20% who overstay visa's as well as those who jump the border, which are just the start of serial lawbreaking and pandemic social pathologies, including felonies such as identity fraud, tax dodging, welfare fraud and rampant proclivities to crimes, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, dropouts.

don't just curse the darkness...
... get involved to save America! Middle Americans JUST LIKE YOU have stopped scamnesty so far, but it is an ongoing challenge against monied, powerful, organized special interests! As Mexifornia residents can attest, we risk losing America soon due to ILLEGAL alien voter fraud and the Reconquista. The left is not waiting for them to become citizens-- why be bothered by that mere technicality?! They load them up in vans and hand them instructions in Espanol on how to vote. It is "40 acres and a mule/we're your friends" all over again.

Many RINOS/CINO'S are utter fools to speak of capturing some of their votes because of purported "conservative social values." [What, pray tell, is "conservative" about wanton penchants toward crime, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, ignorance/dropouts, barrio blight and balkanization, tax dodging, and identity fraud?!?!]

Legal, middle class Hispanics sometimes vote as conservatives, but ILLEGALS will vote 95:5 for entitlement government, thus soon inexorably morphing America irretrievably into a welfare state third world country, partly because they will insist that their myriad indigent, ignorant relatives all come here as well. Even a lib demographer has admitted that ILLEGAL immigration is the "the mother of all unfunded mandates for government largess."

If we do not stop ILLEGALS soon, it will be TOO LATE. Join the fight by rattling cages in Congress; you can reach them directly here at their official sites, or send targeted free e-mails via NumbersUSA... bookmark the sites, and get involved:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm
http://www.numbersusa.com/index

the high costs of "cheap " labor
Heritage estimates a cost to America of $1.4 million PER ILLEGAL alien household in deficit taxes alone versus govt. services used over a lifetime. Harvard economist Dr. George Borjas calculated that legal and illegal immigrants suppress wages by $200 billion annually. Many billions of illicit earnings are sent back to Mexico, causing a loss of economic benefit here.

Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich reported in October 2007: "Illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact”. Costs in L.A. alone are more than $1 billion annually for ILLEGALS-- Public Safety cost there alone is $220 million, Health Care $400 million, Welfare $440 million.

Taxpayers across America are made to provide ILLEGAL immigrants S.S. benefits, education, housing, welfare, child care and medical care. Instead of encouraging them to learn English and assimilate, their myriad progeny are often taught in their native languages. Bilingual "education" has proved to be a failure in Az. (and rejected) and elsewhere.

“The non-assimilation problem is made worse by the divisive activities of radical Hispanic groups (La Raza, MEChA, LULAC, ADL, SPLC, et al.) financed by the Rockefeller, Carnegie, Mellon, and other wealthy foundations.” These organizations view the immigrants as oppressed victims and change is needed. One change, supported by illegal aliens, includes the reclaiming of the American southwest for Mexico.
http://www.minutemanproject.com/newsmanager/templates/mmp.a
sp?articleid=302&zoneid=

Illegal immigrants annually cost American taxpayers $200 Billion in revenue lost by suppressed wages, and $20 Billion for food stamps, medicaid, welfare, and free lunches.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

In addition to the above costs, $231 billion is spent for teaching English, Anchor Babies, Incarceration, and Social Services.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

RINO's misread tea leaves on ILLEGALS
The RINOS like Amnesty John have been committing slow death by a thousand cuts via embracing ILLEGALS. Because miscreant employers want to milk the "cheap" labor (which is ACTUALLY VERY EXPENSIVE to America all-in socio-economically), the Chamber lobbies buy the pols. RINO's like Presidente Jorge and Amnesty John made Faustian deals some time ago to get Hispanic votes, which matter somewhat in Texas and Az. The trouble with that reckoning is that middle class Hispanic-Americans have little in common with the ILLEGAL alien horde. About half of the Hispanics in Az. voted for tough new anti-ILLEGAL sanctions in 2006 which are causing ILLEGALS to vamanos back to Mexico.

The aspect of this that the left does not yet quite get yet is that while the ILLEGALS WILL indeed vote for big entitlement government, 3/4 of America opposes making them voters. Gov. Spitzer was first chagrined in blue state New York for his drivers license/voter fraud scam attempt, and even the left admits that Shrillary's equivocating on it wounded her badly-- her biggest tactical mistake to date).

Wanting to stanch ILLEGALS is NOT "a fringe conservative issue," but righteous indignation that will be felt in a number of election contests going forward. Many 'Crats elected in '06 like Heath Shuler opposed ILLEGALS and ran on that. A key part of the anger at Presidente Jorge is about his willful nonfeasance on this issue. Amnesty John is simply paying lip service when he feigns, "We got America's message about enforcement." We should vote for candidates and support those in Congress who will STOP ILLEGALS (see posts to follow for how YOU can get involved to save your country).

Amnesty John is Presidente Jorge redux
It is AMAZING how myopic many people are about ILLEGAL aliens. Their apologists like to proffer the disingenuous drivel that their transgression (border crashing) is akin to jaywalking, but by definition the following are almost universal among ILLEGAL aliens-- identity and tax fraud, driving w/o licenses or insurance, tax and S.S. dodging, social service fraud and enervation/decimation, and socio-economic blight spreading like a cancer.

Another big fraud-- we need their "cheap" labor. First of all, only their miscreant, lawbreaking employers benefit-- our hotel rooms and food are no cheaper to the consumer. ACTUALLY, we cannot afford that labor, because today's advanced service economy benefits on balance ONLY from educated, skilled immigrants who want to assimilate and learn English ASAP.

The left at least "gets it"... they KNOW that ILLEGALS will vote for big entitlement govt., which is why they want to give them licenses ASAP (voter fraud). Fully 75% of Americans oppose this scheme, but the pols seek to cram it down on us anyway. A plurality is so naive that it imagines that Amnesty John will enforce the border! I guess that is why he hired Reconquista poster boy Smilin' Juan Hernandez to be his Hispanic outreach amigo. How much more can Amnesty Juan reach out?!

It is essential that we keep barraging Congress to assure that we stop scamnesty which Amnesty John and the left favor. You can rattle those cages in Congress continuously at their official contact sites right here-- bookmark it and bark at them daily! It was Middle Americans JUST LIKE YOU who derailed Kennedy-McAmnesty only months ago, but they are continually trying to sneak scamnesty by again in various bills.

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

lodestar
i do not for a minute doubt your sincerety in your beliefs.

my problem is that the stats you use are simply inaccurate.

heritage, v-dare and numbers usa skew their statistics to satisfy the people who support them, conservatives.

here are some links to other statistics.
you probably won't belive them because your mind is made up on this issue but i live in san diego and the newspaper is moderate-right and has over and over again condemned the statistical data that you use as false and misleading.

here on the border, things look alot different than what you claim.


here are some links.

this first one shows more americans by a 2% margin support earned path to citizenship.

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

next link is about medical care

WASHINGTON – Less than 1 percent of Medicaid spending went to health care for illegal immigrants, according to a study that the researchers said defied a common belief that they are a bigger drain on taxpayer money.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070314/news_1n14i mmig.html

anyway i put these out there for you to examine just to have another perspective.

lodestar
i find it interesting that mccain and bush and the sand diego newspaper all agree on immigration and all of them have experience living in a border state.

Illegal immigrants not cause of budget crisis

April 1, 2008

For those convinced that illegal immigration is responsible for so many of society's ills – from crime to pollution to crowded schools – it is easy to conclude that California would not be facing an $8 billion budget gap if the state wasn't home to so many illegal immigrants. It is undocumented immigrants, the argument goes, that put the Golden State in the red by taxing our schools, prisons and social services.

What nonsense. In fact, those who think that way and blame illegal immigrants for California's economic crisis are making – to quote Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger – a “big mistake.”

“There is always a time like this where you start pointing the finger at various different elements of what creates the budget mess, and some may point the finger at illegal immigrants,” the governor said. “I can guarantee you, I have been now four years in office in Sacramento, I don't think that illegal immigration has created the mess that we are in.”


here is the link

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080401/news_lz1ed 1bottom.html

You've opened my eyes Robert
Robert, thank you for that insightful and information packed rebuttal to my post. Your command of the issues is unassailable. I can only hope that in the future I am more prepared and do my research a little better. When you examined my post and dissected my points with the precision of a brain surgeon, I was truly humbled. Above all, it is your command of the english language that impresses most. I got chills down my spine when you said, "gullible." Brilliant my friend. Truly brilliant.
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