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Monday, October 15, 2007
Star Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Sen. Clinton ignores Social Security crisis
by Star Parker
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The lack of attention by candidates of both parties to the huge entitlements crisis facing this country has been, to say the least, troubling.

But Sen. Hillary Clinton, in an interview with two Washington Post reporters the other day, put new spin on this. Clinton is now not merely avoiding addressing this difficult problem, but also rejects the premise that the problem even exists.

Speaking with the Post's Dan Balz and Ann Kornblut aboard her "Middle Class Express" bus in Iowa, Clinton announced that we have no Social Security problem.

"I do not believe it is in crisis ... I reject the conventional wisdom and the Republican talking points that Social Security is in crisis. I do not agree with that."

Balz expands on Clinton's remarks in his blog, quoting her as saying that "To me Social Security is not a front burner issue ... I don't want to get into negotiating over Social Security while I'm trying to do health care, change our energy policy, and move back to fiscal responsibility and get us out of Iraq."

Ironically, it was not Republicans, but her husband Bill, who declared the Social Security system in crisis as his lead message in his State of the Union address in 1999.

President Clinton said in that address to the nation, "...by 2013, payroll taxes will no longer be sufficient to cover monthly payments. And by 2032 the trust fund will be exhausted, and Social Security will be unable to pay out the full benefits older Americans have been promised."

The latest report of the Social Security Board of Trustees, issued earlier this year, confirms that the problem still looms large before us. This is no partisan document, but a report on the data cranked out by the actuaries at the Social Security Administration on the state of the system.

It concludes that the state of the Social Security system remains "problematic" and that "Social Security's current annual surpluses of tax income over expenditures will soon begin to decline and then turn into rapidly growing deficits as the baby boom generation retires."

In that State of the Union address back in 1999, President Clinton outlined his own plans for how to address the Social Security crisis.

Those plans never crystallized, however, because Clinton soon thereafter wound up with his hands full, and his attention diverted, as the result of a scandal concerning his activities with an intern named Monica Lewinsky.

Apparently Mrs. Clinton was paying as close attention to what her husband was saying about the state of the Social Security system as she was to his after hours extra curricular activities with this young intern in the Oval Office.

The fact is that the Social Security problem, together with Medicare, is enormous, and together they amount to fiscal quicksand upon which our financial future precariously sits.

Economists from the Wharton School of Business and from the Cato Institute recently estimated in the Financial Analysts Journal the massive scope of our national debt and deficit if we properly accounted for the liabilities in Social Security and Medicare. National debt amounts to $64 trillion, or five times our gross national product, and our real deficit is $2.5 trillion, or the size of the whole federal budget.

Anyone who follows Mrs. Clinton's various proclamations and proposals over time will not be surprised that facts and truth are not her priority. The priority, of course, is saying whatever it takes, in her estimation, to get elected.

It makes sense that Clinton wants to push an issue as important as Social Security to the sidelines. The collapse of our entitlement programs testifies to the failure of government planning, and grabbing power and government planning define everything that she is about.

While the senator tells us that Social Security is not in crisis, she is proposing massive new government programs, including a hundred billion dollars plus in health care spending and $20 billion in a new government giveaway for retirement savings, that will sink us only into a deeper financial black hole.

Sadly, these burdens will disproportionately fall on the low -and middle -income families that Mrs. Clinton takes politically for granted. Thirty four percent of our Latino population and 32 percent of blacks are under 18, compared to 22 percent of non-Hispanic whites.

Worse, Mrs. Clinton's message to folks who need to hear that their ticket to prosperity is exercising personal responsibility in a free country is that without being dependent on government, their future is hopeless.

How the Democratic Party has changed since that January in 1961 when President John Kennedy made his inaugural appeal to "Ask not what your country can do for you -- ask what you can do for your country."

A far cry from Mrs. Clinton's "...fairness doesn't just happen. It requires the right government policies."

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About The Author
Star Parker is the founder and president of CURE, the Coalition for Urban Renewal & Education, a 501c3 think tank which explores and promotes market based public policy to fight poverty, as well as author of White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner City Decay.
 
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See, this is why I'm no Accountant
I just noticed my decimal point was off.

Oh well. Make it $10,000 instead of $100,000, and adjust all the other sums accordingly, and the point is still valid.

jim -- in case I missed it
First off, my condolences on the loss of your loved one.

But more importantly to the discussion, anecdotal evidence doesn't count. You might as well tell us that you bought $10,000 worth of Lottery tickets.

The vast majority of the people in the system will contribute in for up to a half century of their working lives, then die a few short years after they retire and start getting benefits out.

Although that is changing, in that people live a lot longer than they used to. Nevertheless, there are still lots of private vehicles that outperform Social Security by leaps and bounds.

Further, you don't really "own" that money. You get whatever you get by virtue of the good graces of Congress, and whatever their current whims are. If they decide to pass a law where you aren't eligible anymore, then **poof** that money evaporates. Such as, in response to people living longer, they decide to raise the retirement age.

Another consequence of not owning that money, you have no control over what happens to it after you're gone. Disposition of the money is literally at the whim of Congress. Private accounts can be willed to children, regardless of their circumstances. You can not only take care of yourself for your own retirement, you can help your kids out in the event you don't make it to retirement age.

Just in case you missed it
jim writes: Monday, October, 15, 2007 1:06 PM

My goodness, my Sweetie and I paid nearly $10,000 into that scheme over the years, and by the end of 2007, I (we!) will have collected only $197,992.80 since we started to receive that money. It took us nearly a year to receive all that we had contributed. Terrible investment.

Sully -- on Ponzi Schemes
quoth Sully: "No matter how much one paid into social security, one should get back what they put in...otherwise it is just a ponzy scheme."

Well actually it's a Ponzi scheme regardless of how much you get back. What makes it a Ponzi scheme is the fact that every previous investor receives a "return" which actually comes from the investments of every new investor.

E.g., Mr. Ponzi is able to sucker 100 people into "investing" $100 each, on promises to make them $200 in a month or something. There will be a "cover story", such as oil wells, foreclosures, penny stocks, what-have-you. In modern "ponzi schemes", there might actually really be such an investment vehicle, a product being sold; like soap; which might even make the scheme "technically" legal. But, in the Ponzi's scheme's purest form, actual product is not necessary.

But back to our story. Mr. Ponzi now has $100,000 from 100 investors.

So then, during the next month, he finds 200 people and sells them the same swindle. He now has $300,000 -- out of which, he can now make good on his promise of $200,000 to first group of 100. And some "consultancy fees" and "expenses" can come out of the remaining $100,000.

The first group is now ecstatic. They've doubled their money! They're singing Mr. Ponzi's praises! They're writing glowing testimonials! They're helping to sell the scam to another 400 suckers.

Which provides the money for the second group, the 200 people. Another group of happy customers!

As should be obvious, the only way this plan will work for everybody over the long haul is if Mr. Ponzi can somehow find an infinite supply of new suckers.

And there you have Social Security in a nutshell.

Here We Go ...
Today the first "baby boomer" signed up for Social Security benefits.

The news report opined that the flood gates are open now, and there will be hundreds of thousands "a week" signing up from the baby boomer generation!

I think we ought to tar and feather every stinkin' one of those DC dogs and run them out of town on a rail.

eastlake
the indians win, the indians win. But as I said before we have put less into our 401 accounts than we paid to ss and have thousands of dollars more that we own and will not lose and can pass on to our kids. Both my wifes parents and my parents died after paying for years into ss and died before collecting a penny and could not leave as inherintence to their heirs. The system is certainly flawed and the idiot missus clinton says their is no crisis.

One other thing
I can't believe the old lady klinton disagrees with her drunken womanizer Willy the Worm Handler. Maybe she's growing what he never had?

Wildwest
If they want to shut down Social security tomorrow I'm fine with that. Just give me what I did pay into it plus what interest I would have collected for the last 43 years ( from14 to 57) and what my wife has paid and the interest she would have earned and we'll put it away and I guarantee it will be there for my kids when I die. If I die before I collect, My kids won't collect a thing as long as I live another 4 years. Go Indians!!!

Hunter/Tancredo "08"

Also True
The other aspect all the preceding rants didn't really address is the purchase of a majority vote. With so many people on the take - so completely dependent on this arrangement, real or not, the Dems have a sure lock on a segment of society - and the votes therein. The revolution baseballdoc suggests is the fear that keeps this scheme in perpetuity. It is a form of brinksmanship: run this country to the edge to ensure a solid voting block and hope that balancing act don't tip before you (1) retire from office and (2) die fat, old, and happy. But the rest of us who outlive this involuntary, statutory imposition will have one helluva mess to clean up. Thanks, there, you all!

Even if *I* expose this truth, and even if I'm right on the mark, ain't nuthin' I can do about it but wait it out. Same with you. People like Hillary probably know they are engaging us, involuntarily, in a grand hoodwink, but given that she has minions in the millions lapping up the "fair share" entitlement, she's quite safe. Being on the younger side of her, I judge that I am not so safe. Uh, thanks again.

Social Security Ponzy Scheme
No matter how much one paid into social security, one should get back what they put in...otherwise it is just a ponzy scheme. It is my money that I worked for! Someone else does not deserve to get it just because they are less fortunate. If this were a private company doing this to consumers, the government would look into them and screw them for screwing their customers. Only in a "democrat world" does my money not belong to me, but to someone else. This is what I am supposed to retire on, but than when you get there the gov't tells you that you already have enough money. Total BS!

baseballdoc
my grandmother haqving minimal education and work skills never earned more than minimum wage and never paid more than the minimum amount towards social security. She retired early to to "medical disability" yet collected ss from age of 58-98. She maintained that until the day she finally died that she would never collect all the money she paid into the fund and that the govt stole her money. She never believed that she collected more in her first year than she ever paid in. Telling her how much we were now contributing she claimed the young owed it to the elderly to provide for their welfare. But like all those elderly living on ss they can collect enough to satisfy their needs and rely on congress to annually give them more money. Oddly enough my grandparents had enough money they didn't need their social security to cover their retirement but that didn;t stop them from crying about how the govt cheated them out of ss money

CIVIL WAR

.....The Surest way to start a Civil War is for Congress to tell millions of seniors that they were sold a bill of goods and that the Government pension plan (SS)that they depended on all for those years is going to be shut down ...

.....politicians would be fleeing DC for their lives as millions marched on the city .....COLOSSUS

Hoover, Schlesinger, Townsend
I did a little looking on Google and could not find it, but somewhere in the vast resources of my brain, I remember reading that President Hoover had designed a retirement plan for citizens of the USA, and it seems I read it in a book by Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.

Now if you ignore “vast resources” “remember” and “I read it in a book” you can believe the rest of that sentence. But if you can find Hoover’s plan, post it please.

For another example of an attempt for a pension of some kind, The Townsend Plan called for a guaranteed monthly pension of $200 (a quite-considerable sum in 1930s, which would have enabled its recipients to have lived a relatively middle class lifestyle) to every retired citizen age 65 or older, to be paid for by a form of a national sales tax of 2% on all business transactions (in reality a concept somewhat akin to a value added tax), with the stipulation that each pensioner would be required to spend the money within 30 days. (Get that? Spend it in thirty days, or else!)

Dr. Townsend published his plan in a Long Beach, California newspaper, as a kind of extended "Letter to the Editor," in early 1933. He was surprised by the swift and massive response the letter generated.

Liberty Dave -- "Earning" Social Securit
quoth Liberty Dave: "Social security is just another form of welfare, a way for the government to take money from you and give it to someone else that didn't earn it."

Actually, as originally envisioned, the beneficiaries *would* have "earned" it, having previously paid into the system. And those who pay into it now are promised to be beneficiaries later.

It's still a Ponzi scheme; it still pays less than a meager savings account; but at least it's not *quite* the same as welfare or wealth redistribution.

Of course, in order to "save" it, that's exactly what they plan to turn it into.

Why do we let the government...
...take away our right to invest the money WE EARN they way we want? I just can't understand how anyone anywhere can think that's an acceptable government philosophy. It's just crazy. It's so against freedom and liberty it's sick.

Social security is just another form of welfare, a way for the government to take money from you and give it to someone else that didn't earn it.

Social security is just another FDR communist born program that Karl Marx and his followers would be proud of.


Wingo
When Bush mentioned fixing SS, all I heard from aunts, uncles and parents was, "It's my money, I paid it in and I will get it out!" They were ADVOCATING what President Bush said but WOULDN'T LET HIM IMPLEMENT IT!

Georgetwin
I'd love to see the pitch from the SS bank, trying to sign up new customers.

"The money IN your account will earn 2% interest. We will tell you how much you can withdraw and when, if theres any left for you. Any bank employee can access your money at any time if they want to take the kids to Disneyland, install a swimming pool or buy a Chalet in Aspen. Oh, and if you die or switch banks, your money stays here, with us. Now all I need to do is poke you with a sharp stick and shove ticks down your underpants while you sign on all 58 dotted lines. Thank you for your business."

Hillary’s Base is Clueless

How can you talk about SS when a good part of Hitlary’s base pays their utility bills in cash? They have no clue whatsoever about government finances.

Their answer to their base is “you just go on with your lives and let “us” take care of the government’s business”.

The Mood
Rasmussen Reports has just issued an important new analysis of data about attitudes toward the leading candidates for President that bears further discussion.

The Rasmussen data show that opposition to all of the leading Presidential candidates--both Democrats and Republicans--has been growing throughout the campaign.

Overall, five of the seven leading candidates, Democrats and Republicans alike, have core oppositions of over 40%. The two candidates whose negative ratings are under 40%--Thompson and McCain have core opposition of 39%.

Indeed, the average hardcore opposition to the seven candidates is up to 43% from 38% in August.

Their positive rating (core support) is now only 23%

The implications of this are clear. The American people are reflecting frustration, not only with the individual candidates, but also with the process.

Other polling, by Rasmussen and others, show the President and Congress, as well as institutions like the Supreme Court have significant negative ratings. Just 21% believe the country is moving in the right direction. The Rasmussen numbers on the candidates show that the cynicism of the American people is only hardening and deepening.

GunnyG
Social Security in a SACRED COW to The Paleo-Liberals New Dealers. She WILL NOT TOUCH IT! What’s funny is if these Liberal Idiots went to a Bank and were offered an account with 2% interest, THEY WOULDN’T GO NEAR IT! But Dolly and Kahryl and other Soreass Shills think this is a GREAT IDEA!

Hillary
Lets face it Hillary wants to be Queen. King? Her friend Pelosi now wants to tax 401's and give to the needy. She actually said there are 12 million undocumented workers out there who need out help. So she now wants to take the few bucks that some working America might have been able to hang onto. Hillary says she can't believe how mean spirited we are about amnesty. That idiot Geraldo says we are racists. Reid says he can't believe we would do this to our youths. Our youths? I figure that as wealthy as these people are they could let the illegals go home and send them some of their millions if they are so worried about their welfare.

Hillary and Social Security
Of course Hilary is not concerned with Social Security. According to Dick Morris (and one should suppect that he should know) she will be making such sweeping changes to the tax structure that American tax payers will cover any shortfall, by increased FICA contributions. Get ready to grab your wallets folks!

Polly
I'm sure you caught the sarcasm. Government is a ponzi scheme. SS is fine - except we took the money we promised we wouldn't take and spent it somewhere else. Then, of course, we have those other pesky entitlements. Medicare, Medicaid and the "New" Prescription Drug act passed literally in the night with little debate and a vastly underestimated cost tacked on. I'm always amused by those that claim that if party x or party y is elected, that the country will go to h--l in a handbasket. From where I sit, it already has gotten there. Most of the voices on this type of thread represent the opinions of the minority who keep hoping that somehow something will change. Of course, it never does. Not in any meaningful way. The GOP has its shot and blew it, now the Democrats will have their's and they will most certainly blow it as well. Conservatives are simply left mumbling to themselves. Having hope in the Republican party is no more justified than having hope in the Democratic party.

Here's Where A Lot ...
... of our Social Security is going:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/bankofamerica.as p

And, there's plenty more sites to back this up, that is IF anyone REALLY cares!

The Only Way ...
... to stop the runaway freight train that SS has become is to FORCE THE POLITICAL PIMPS IN DC TO STOP RAIDING THE FUND FOR THEIR "PET" LIBERAL LUNATIC GIVEAWAYS AND "DONATIONS" TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES WHO REMAIN WILLING TO CUT OUR THROATS AND STAB US IN THE BACKS ... AND

PAYBACK INTO THE SS FUND WHAT THEY HAVE STOLEN/DIVERTED OR "BORROWED" FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND NEVER BOTHERED TO PAY BACK.

I'd like to see Hellory Ramrod's stinkin' mansion in NY be put on the auction block; revocation of her private use of the Secret Service to "protect" her nasty hide and that she be required to repay every stinkin' criminal dime that she has wrested from an honest taxpaying person's pocket.

Finally, I'd like to see her nibs in a really nifty set of black and white stripes next to that rotten slimeball husband of hers! Life, plus 99 years - THEN SHE'D HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT - AT LEAST AS TO HER "COLLECTING" ANY SOCIAL SECURITY!

one thing, Eben
Those nasty tax cuts have ALWAYS resulted in increased tax payments to the Treasury. Tax receipts DOUBLED under Reagan.

Unfortunately, the government just can't take in enough money to offset the spending ability of a corrupt, wealth-redistributing Congress.

If you don't like big government, run for office. It appears that becoming a Representative or Senator magically transforms almost anyone into a power-obsessed big-spending government-lover.

Wolfgang
Actually, SS was originally intended as a cushion for widows and orphans of men killed at war. FDR expanded it to include all elderly, which may have worked, somewhat, until LBJ raided the trust and put it in the general budget. Now the money that was supposed to help Granny buy cat food is being spent to install gold toilets in the Robert Byrd Memorial Museum Honoring Excessive Government waste.

I would prefer a flat or fair tax, myself. But if we are going to continue being taxed at current levels, we should at least get some say as to where our money goes.

I propose a questionaire that we submit with our annual tax return. Spending for military, border security, law enforcement and other things the governmet is constitutionally authorized to do would be automatic. Each taxpayer would get to determine whether we wanted pay to make sure corporate farms aren't growing corn and whether or not to promote sodomy under the guise of modern art. Every dime would be allocated by the people through the questionaire, and congress wouldn't be allowed to spend it on anything else.

I also propose we abolish federal withholding so taxes are all paid on April 15th, and that election day be moved to the first Tuesday following April 15th.

With these simple changes, I guarantee we would see a massive uprising from the working people who make this country great. Nobody, not even liberals, would tolerate the cr@p we are being spoon fed by our beloved representatives if their shenanigans were to be exposed to the light of day.

Sorry, Wolfgang
When your Social Security dollars buy I.O.U.s (government bonds), the money is IN the general fund. There's nowhere else for it to park. They get it, they'll spend it.

Abolish Social Security Now
Social security is the biggest ripoff ever dreamed up by the socialist known as FDR.
I say abolish it now! Once benefits are drawn, they are taxed. Now that makes alot of sense. Double taxation!

Eliminate SS now and pay those are current recipients their due until they die, out of general funds. I am 54 and have been paying in since I was 17. I would gladly give up my share to eliminate the retarded tax on my income called FICA. I figure that in 20 years, assuming I saved all of the SS monies I would have paid into the corrupt system, I will still be ahead of the game and it will be mine, not the governments, not paying for some lazy dumb slob who sits on his or her butt all day, not paying for some socialist "Pork Project" or paying for illegals who use dummy SS numbers.



Alien Abduction
I have 30+ years before I retire, so I have a good deal of time to save my money.

My 401k is currently earning 19% interest. The last SSA statement I received said I should expect my "benefit" payments to be about 75% of what I paid, a 25% LOSS! Assuming, of course, that a few minor "fixes" are made. I think, even IF the "fixes" are made, the reverse will probably be true and I'll be seeing at least a 75% loss if I get anything at all.

This is unacceptable! Not only do I not believe I'll collect a dime from of the money I've been paying in since I began working at age 14. I DON'T WANT IT! And I'd like the stupid gonvernment to stop taking my money when they know with a surety they won't be able to keep their promise to pay me back.

I have no faith in the government's ability to fix anything. I have greater faith that I'll be abducted by aliens and taken care of by them. The occasional anal probe I receive couldn't be any worse than the screwing we're all getting from the government right now.

But Global Warming . . . .
Social Security won't be a problem for years. The real crisis in our world is global warming. Within three billion years we'll all die from it!! Really! I don't just think it, I feel it is true!!!!!

Maybe conservatives should try pushing for privatizing (carbon credits) global warming and the liberals would see it as a bad idea.

Fix it?
I was fixed. Remember. We doubled the payroll tax under Reagan. Problem was, we cut taxes but not spending so that the deficits ballooned. So, we dumped the social security surplus into the general fund to help hide at least some of the deficits, the rest of which we borrowed from Foreign countries. Then, we got to Bush. George cut taxes - but increased spending. That also led to deficits - big ones. So we kept right on taking the SSS money to mask the true size of the deficits - and then borrowed another $2 trillion plus from our good Chinese, Japanese, Saudi etc. friends so that future generations could pay for what we don't want to pay for today. "The free lunch".

Don't you just love it?

Now I know people love those tax cuts. Unfortunately - they don't like spending cuts to go along with tax cuts. We all like to pay ourselves on the back because the tax cuts help the economy. Shhh - don't say anything about all that borrowed money though.

And then, we tend to pretend that a $100 B or so a year in tax cuts can compete with the Fed. Let's see - the Fed reduced the cost of money, ignored subprime lending, and sat around while housing bubbled vigorously and inflated. This provided trillions in free non-earned money to spend - and the consumers spent it.

So tell me - which is really responsible for the economy - the Fed, or a government that gave it a stimulus that was less that 20% of the stimulus the Fed gave it.

Ah well - we all get a free lunch - so why complain.

Granted, the price of borrowing was the sell out of manufacturing to the Chineses and Japanese, and the cost of propping up the Saudis - but that's ok, we're ok now - so, Like Hillary, why worry about it?

Social Security, What a disaster
I will certainly agree that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

My goodness, my Sweetie and I paid nearly $10,000 into that scheme over the years, and by the end of 2007, I (we!) will have collected only $197,992.80 since we started to receive that money. It took us nearly a year to receive all that we had contributed. Terrible investment.

It turns out my Sweetie only worked a couple of years that required donations, and while I worked at The RAND Corp., non-profit companies could not contribute to Soc Sec. I retired from Pay-Roll jobs and stopped contributing at age 50. There was no way to contribute from income received from real estate investments, thank goodness. So you can see how we have suffered.

Of course we have paid $15,770.40 into Medicare, from our Social Security checks, and I haven't the slightest idea what we have collected in Medical payments.

I am now on my own. I would exchange all of this for just one more hug and kiss from my Sweetie. I remember all the time we spent on frivolous things like eating and sleeping, when we could have been hugging and kissing.



NO PROBLEM FOR HILLARY

.....Government run pension plans are not a problem for Socialists like Hillary ...in fact they are the cornerstone for their Socialist Utopia .....COLOSSUS

Enough Already
Social Security can be "repaired." How? First, eliminate the assinine rule that penalizes recipients from continuing to work by offset their Social Security by the amount they earn. Instead, just continue taxing them as any other working individual. that, alone, would restore billions into the "trust fund." Second, restore Social Security to what it was originally intended to be - a cushion for the elderly. Remove all of the welfare payment programs that have been tacked on over the years and put them into a separate fund that has to sink or swim of its own accord. Third, tighten up the record keeping and eligibility requirements. There are too many documented instances of immigrants, including illegals, who never even paid into the system getting benefits - while those who HAVE paid in run afoul of bureaucrats who say that they are missing one quarter out of the forty required for eligibility. Fourth, a specific law has to be passed stating that Social Security tax receipts cannot be place into and used in any general fund. Put the politicians' feet to the fire.

Polly, re the CSR from_Hell
Polly, you point out: "It would be even worse if the government were allowed to "invest" that money in the private sector. If their ability to regulate and reward private industry leads to corruption (and it does, BIG TIME), their ability to direct investment into favored private businesses would be even worse."

Thank you! This is the most horrifying of all notions floated for 'saving' Social Security! If you think "corporate social responsibility" is bad now, just wait till the SS trustees have the power to buy stocks, & of course attach politically correct strings to the privilege of having one's stock held in the SS portfolio! It would be a Title IX spread to all issues & all industries! Don't go there!

Plain fact is, as you indicated, apart from the foregoing there is no realistic way for government to invest funds for a real return; the money just gets spent today & then beaten out of a new group of taxpayers again tomorrow.

gunny g
again social security only shows the govt can't be trusted to to run any program. We have put less money into our 401 than we have paid into social security and still have many more thousands of dollars that we actually own. Based on soc sec projections, if we put no more money into our 401 and it accumulated no additional interest we can withdraw withdraw an amount equal to ss for 24 plus years. But if we die all the accumulated ss deposits will be lost to our heirs, but there are many thousands of 401 funds that can be passed on. But the dims are still too stupid to understand this. And of course the missus clinton can't bear the thought we can survive without her "guidance"

quarryb
I was about to add that link for Fred, nice to know others pay attention as well.

'Our' SS system was of course one of many programs that has put us on the path to socialism, and anyone who dared speak out against them in the early 20th century were treated much like McCarthy was during the 50's. Ostricized by the media and fellow pol peers, they were beaten down and either forced or voted out of office so there was no dissention for fear of the DNC.

This party has held sway over both DNC and GOP candidates by the sheer power of the socialist media and elitists who are pretty much exempt from the responsibilities of thier actions.

Much like I argued with my sister about how she raised her toddlers, they were given the rights of a teenager but none of the responsibility of them, now those kids are unruly, immoral, lazy, selfish, self-centered adults, raising a progressively worse generation of children of their own. Sure. Let's 'entitle' them with our hard earned money, so they can use that cash for drugs, alcohol, further debasement of their minds and bodies, and empower them to neglect or throw away thier children if they so choose.

How many other programs need to be scrapped? And why do we let those who broke the programs, fix them? Would you take your car back to a mechanic who charged you loads of money to fix a problem that never got fixed? If you do, expect to spend twice as much, and don't cry if the problem wasn't fixed the second time either.

You can't mend it; end it!
FICA, Socialist Insecurity, was created in 1935.
All those years, SS was collecting far more than it disbursed, while promising future benefits to the taxpayers. Where did that surplus go? It was "loaned" to the general fund, & spent buying re-elections. The general fund would now have to redeem the bonds it sold to the SSS to pay back those "loans," w/ taxes paid by present taxpayers who had no say-so about this.

Hillary, of course, wants this not to be a campaign issue now, but another rationalization for raising taxes later when she's in the Oval Office.

IMCO, we need to:

-nix any expansion of dedicated FICA taxes right off the table; in fact, the long term goal should be phasing them out. There should be no excess FICA tax collected above the amount required to pay current beneficiaries; that money will just be 'loaned', spent, & then require repayment with even more taxes.

-freeze SS benefits expansions of any kind; if any particular services are to be added, fund them from the general fund. Particularly, a means test should be phased in for COLAS and other additional benefits to wealthy recipients.

-go ahead & be paying off the 'notes' out of the general fund to make up SS shortages. Wasn't that supposed to be the idea?

-phase out new enrollments in the SSSystem. Phase in payment of current benefits out of general fund money. Cut off the phoney lying promise of 'contribute now & you'll get paid off later' that imposes this crap from the past on us.

-Phase in personal investment/savings accounts on the IRA/401(k) model. There is no good reason not to.

The Socialist Insecurity system is defended so rabidy by the elite because it creates dependency on government, future fiscal crises, & occasions for general demagoguery. As such, it needs to go to the trashbin of history with the other relics of FDR's reign.

Sadly, it looks like Kahryl will win
Back when FDR presented Social Security, it was to be a retirement plan. Back then, Americans had not been brainwashed into accepting the "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" precept. No one wanted to be on "charity." Remember "pride"?

After years of Leftist attacks on the evil Rich (versus the noble poor), even my sweet baby sister says "Because you can afford it more easily than I can" when questioned about fairness of our progressive tax scheme.

So now, why not officially make SS a welfare program? Eliminate the taxing cap, but don't increase the SS payments to those who pay an extra TWELVE PERCENT of ALL of their income. Nice tax increase. But it's okay because "From each according to his ability" is now accepted.

Proof: VOLUNTARY privatization of Social Security was demonized by the Left and NOT demanded by the people, then abandoned by Bush and the Republicans.

There is no way for the government to NOT spend the "Social Security Trust Fund." The cash simply buys I.O.U.s (government bonds). It would be even worse if the government were allowed to "invest" that money in the private sector. If their ability to regulate and reward private industry leads to corruption (and it does, BIG TIME), their ability to direct investment into favored private businesses would be even worse.

So the only answer is to turn SS into just another welfare program. Yep, that'll work until most everyone now in government is OUT of government. Any collapse then is not their problem.

Gag Reflex
Anybody but me have the gag reflex kick in with the Hillary quote that mentions fiscal responsibility and 'trying to do health care' in the same sentence?

Why 'save' a scam?
I always chuckle when I hear about the Socialist Insecurity system facing insolvency or going broke, because of the phony premises implied. How can something that never accumulates or holds real assets go broke? How can a Ponzi scheme be solvent?

The recipients & the AARP that fraudulently speaks for oldsters keep insisting that they paid in, were promised it, & are 'owed' it. Well, boo hoo. Take it up with FDR! Okay, you paid in, now point to that sack of money, those securities or assets we can cash, to pay you what you were promised by dead politicians. That's right, it was spent, decades ago, & it's gone. We don't have it, & no, we aren't better off or wealthier for it having been taken away from you & spent either, so we don't 'owe' it to you on that theory either. You've been ripped off, & we disclaim & dispute any obligation to continue the scam just to cover you.

Wonder when the future AARP members are going to go to the leadership and say "If our money hadn't been siphoned off into this rathole you defended in the 2000's we could have been moderately wealthy now instead of barely hanging on. Why did you do this to us?" A hi price for a few motel & airline discounts.

She should take care of social security
before making healthcare insurance mandatory. We don't need healthcare insurance. We might need social security when we get older. The older you get, the less likely anybody wants to hire you & the more prices on everything goes up. The more she makes mandatory now, the worse the situation will get in the future. If the Republicans make it mandatory to carry healthcare insurance, then Hillary will win the election as there won't be any good reason to vote for her opponent. Hope Ron Paul wins the nomination as his emphasis on more freedom & smaller government is unlikely to make such foolishness as 'healthcare insurance' mandatory! I think he would be the most likely of the bunch to be able to beat her.

How can we get rid of SS
Social Security is and was a disaster from the Start. I wish we could go back in History and hang the SOB's in Congress who gave it to us - of course it was a Democrat in the White House, don't know who controlled Congress. I would rather see Congress come up with a one time check for everyone and then eliminate it for good. And then outlaw Government from participating in these types of programs. Does anyone have any wonderful ideas on how we could get rid of Social Security? This was not the function of Government, and it started us down the path of Socialism. Then we could concentrate of Medicare and Medicaid next. This is one of my favorites. From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn't writing about the United States.

This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

I wonder where we are within the above sequence; My guess is from complacency to apathy - not far off to dependency and bondage. What do you expect with Socialism which is what the Democratic Party is providing us now.


To $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Glad to see you have come to realize the mistake you made. However, why are you continuing to accept the money? If you feel as strongly as you do about it send it back. I revoked my "benefits" (share in the spoils) long ago.

From THE 10 PLANKS OF THE COMMUNIST MANAFESTO

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Americans know this as the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913; The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State "income" taxes. Absurdly referred to as "paying your fair share".

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.

WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested!! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.

Left needs to distance itself...
...from the social security issue, has it will bring about revelations concerning their use of the peoples money. Just as any investigation into Americas entitlement programs, human services programs, will reveal the lefts control of their taxing cash cow. A tax on our societies passions to secure power, and profit. The left adores the fact that we are a giving society, and many would bend over backward to help their neighbor. Just as our individual passions adore the fact that, if we do not need to exert extra energy to assist others, our personal lives are better. This gives us the ability to retain, increase, our possession, has a tax dollar here or, there, is not a big problem. This liberal left ideal has helped them to profit, and secure power, as it has also helped in destroying personal responsibility for community, state, and nation. You bet your bottom dollar Hillary does not want to raise this issue, because she wants you to keep on gambling. Betting your last dollar, speculating on their claimed ability to fix your neighbors problems.

loco
That's the beauty of the liberal's Ponzi Scam, no one knows but the Shadow!

Speaking of Shadows, check my blog for the first of three parts on the Shadow Party.

What ever happened
to Gore's LOCKBOX?

svpallava
Thanks. It must be a child running that bot for the level of thinking involved with those posts.

GunnyG, I've seen Kahryl before
She is a spammer (posts the same bakvas on multiple column-answers--even when the "answer" is irrelevant to the column)!

Independent Thinker
Man you got THAT right. Kahryl is just another "gimme-gimme" libcommie.

Cut taxes now
Soc Sec takes 6.2% of the paycheck, the employ matches this. This collects about $800Billion a year. Soc Sec pays out $650Billion a year. Net profit to Mother Gov't of $150Billion, annually, with a promise Mother Gov't will pay it back later as if a loan, and with a "generous" 4% interest.

First things first, we need to reduce this alure of easy money. Cut Soc Sec taxes to about 4.9% (with matching), or better, raise them to 8.8% with no matching. Then gov't momentum to keep this tax shell game going will cease. And our willingness to blindly pay only half the cost will be challenged. We're being robbed today, right now, by the arrangement.

Social Security was too cute by half, and it has worked for several generations. It was that smooth.

Social Security
There is no SS trust fund!!! Presently, more is coming in than is going out. That excess is being used for general expenses. But that excess is shrinking as more are drawing SS, and when it is gone (the same paid out as is paid in), then the gap will be filled by general funds. There is NO money accumulated to make it up. The trust fund, sometimes called the reserve, is a fiction that continues to be prepetuated. Talk about whistling in the cemetery!

Somebody suggested...
that we take the cap off contributions.
Sure! Then that will make it just another welfare system.
And no doubt, rather thaning being paid out according to the level of our contribution, we'll have any pensions deducted and paid the differencee. So we'll pay in according to our capacity to pay, and get paid according to our needs.
Hmm. Now where have I heard that phrase before?

Oops,
he = she. Although maybe I was right the first time!

pianogirl
LOL!

They sure got THAT right. Anyone endorsing this idiot needs a CAT scan to see if they have a brain! he has NO EXPERIENCE whatsoever. Neither does that empty suit Oblahma.

Simple solution
There is a very simple solution. Totally privatize social security. It was done in Chile. It works. Not only does the average WORKER in Chile (that worker distinction is important because non-workers haven't done as well) have a much better, more secure retirement and usually something to pass on to their heirs, the savings rate in Chile is much higher than in the U.S., the investment rate is higher and the Chilean economy is the strongest in South America. It is not utopian because there are problems if people make bad choices or if they don't want to work but overall the average citizen is better off than the days prior to privatization.

Unfortunately, the primary reason it won't happen here is BOTH sides of the aisle. There is simply too much political power in the FICA box of your payroll deductions and politicians of every stripe are loath to give that up.

Hey
Love the pic that goes along with this article. It says "A SS" with a photo of pandering Hillary standing in front of it.

$$$$$$$$$$$
Well you may have been a late bloomer, but you are starting to see the problem that true conservatives have been screaming about for years. In its simplest form, todays politicians and judges don't give a rats a-- about the Constitution.

I once read a good argument against entitlements:

If your neighbor came and took your car because he thought there should be more "equitable" distribution of the wealth, everyone would call it theft. If 10 of your neighbors got together and took your car, your house and all your furniture, it would be considered a criminal gang, but if 50 of your neighbors get together and petition the government to take your property for the same reason, it's democracy, and we think it is just fine. It's all theft no matter who gives the approval!

Lets go back
Let us go back to the Johnson administration. LBJ is the one who placed the trust fund into the general fund to help pay for the Vietnam war. You remember him..another liberal do gooder

$$$$$$$$$$$
I'm not against helping those who need it. But when a better way exists to do something and stupid liberals like Hitlary still keep doing the same old thing, and get the same old result, it's just plain stupid.

Of course, if we WERE allowed to invest OUR OWN MONEY as WE SAW FIT, then that takes away the liberal's number one vote getter: "Vote Dhimmicrat or the GOP will steal your Social Security."

Correction
In my post to Gunny, I meant to say that "this in no way INvalidates the that Social Security is a disaster of biblical proportions.

Gunny
Congress now participates in the Social Security system they once exempted themselves from and have done so since 1984! When the old Civil Servant Retirement System was eliminated for everyone hired after 1983! Of course this in no way validates that the Social Security systems is a disaster of biblical proportions! Nor justify its continuation in any form.

NO TO SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE
I am a recipient of Social Security and Medicare - trapped by my own ignorance in the past but now realize that these fraudulent systems are nothing short of theft from the American citizen's personal income. Both systems must be totally eliminated! The government has no right to confiscate my money at the point of a gun for the "good of society" or to force me to save for retirement or force me to provide for my medical care. Further they have even less right to steal my money and give it to others - regardless of their needs. By what right does another person's needs constitute an obligation on my part to meet those needs? By what right and by what authority authorizes the government to dictate how we provide for ourselves? Where in the Constitution is the Federal or State governments authorized to steal from its productive citizens and give it to other citizens with needs of any kind? Where in our Constitution is the government obligated or even authorized to act in such an altruistic manner?

The very idea of altruism is one of personal and individual conviction and in no way includes the concept of a governing body taking by force the resources of one citizen for the benefit of another citizen. We have come to think of these socialistic programs as "entitlements?" No one is entitled to the resources of another person regardless of how needy they may be! By what right does the government rob from the rich and give to the poor? There is no sense in attempting to resolve the fiscal problems - this will only further aid and abet the government to continue to act like "Robin Hood."

go to the fairtax
the only way to fix things is eliminate the SStax, income tax, etc., and replace it with one retail sales tax. Then when new programs are introduced, the sales tax must make the contribution. in this manner, the Heinzs and Kerrys will have to pay their share since they are mostly exempt from this earned income stuff when their income comes from their trust funds.

Dolly Dingaling
Please go back to the Daily KoS with the other children, you're out of your league here.

Even the NYT gets it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/washington/09econ.html?ei =5088&en=ec2d242da8699725&ex=1310097600&partner=rssnyt&emc= rss

You cut taxes and the economy grows. Economics 101 stuff.

Bob
Indeed.

I find two things funny about liberals and The Great Ponzi Scam of 1935.

One, they wrote THEMSELVES out of it.

Two, they made it MANDATORY!

If liberals come up with plans that are so GREAT, then WHY must they make them MANDATORY!? Wouldn't people FLOCK to a good thing?

TSP rocks and if people were able to transfer their Ponzi Scam holdings into a TSP account, AARP and the Dhimmicrats would lose a milk cow. Not to mention that the HEIRS would get something where very often, they get NOTHING!

Klinton Logic?
Q: How do you salvage an existing (Social Security) entitlement program?

A: You ignore the problem, then, generate yet more entitlement programs (Hillarycare II, Baby Bonuses, Gov’t Subsidized 401(k) Retirements, …) that in the end will surely be mismanaged, underfunded, and increase the deficit even further!

Go Figure!?

http://klintons.com

Viable solutions - Part Two
When a Social Security recipient, by reason of disability or retirement begins receiving benefits, the amount is based on prior earnings and the full amount is paid as scheduled.

One year later, a COLA is added to the monthly amount, said COLA being based on the 1'st Qtr CPI as determined by the Federal Government. The same takes place each year thereafter.

Present beneficiaries being unaffected, all new recipients shall continue to have the same COLA benefits added. But the calculation should be on the BASE amount, the amount first earned and NOT an increase on the total of the prior years benefit total.

The difference is individually marginal but the difference on an exponential scale is huge. Put this COLA revision together with my prior uncapping the contribution limits for earnings abouve $97,500 znd you have what I say is a VIABLE SOLUTION which is simple to implement and can be written into law with little or no effort.

AARP won't complain, present recipients are untouched, Employers have no beef, we don't have to revise or revamp the IRS, and it will be well received by the people on their way up the ladder as their 6.2 contributions might be subject to reduction once the money begins to flow.

And I will say to those at or above $97500 in earnings, "Ask not what your country can do.............."

Or just plain, TOUGH

It's my non-expert, non-economist and non-actuarial opinion that these two ideas could save Social Security

As an added afterthought, the top available benefit for Social Security would NOT be increased to reflect the added assessment.

I do believe that the benefit could, by virtue of this strategy, eventually be increased for all of the new beneficiaries.

uwcharlie
No sweat, my pleasure.

Whenever some stupid libturd starts shooting off their mouths like that, I simply refer to the TSP which is PRIVATIZED but overseen by the Feds. Unlike The Great Ponzi Scam that is SS, it can't be skimmed by the politicians for their pet projects. Also, I'd REALLY like to see the figures on how many people and their heirs get screwed on the Ponzi Scam.

Also, liberals like to tout unions. I then point to the American auto industry, the airlines, contruction trades, and any other industry where the unions have gotten their claws into. They consistently underperform the non-unionized private sector as well as turning out a sh*ttier product.

Also, ALL, check my post for Part One of a new series.

Viable solutions
There are other ways of addressing the future needs of Social Security which do not have an extreme impact on present beneficiaries, only a very modest and hardly significant impact on new entrants and something which I believe most of us could get behind to salvage this program and take it well beyond the predicted date of downfall.

First, lift the cap on the individual highest income earners. The OASDI tax rate for wages paid in 2007 is set by statute at 6.2 percent for employees and employers, each. Thus, an individual with wages equal to or larger than $97,500 would contribute $6,045.00 to the OASDI program in 2007, and his or her employer would contribute the same amount. The OASDI tax rate for self-employment income in 2007 is 12.4 percent.

Beginning with 2008, remove the cap of $97500 and let it free float to all earnings. But DO NOT assess the Employer. Instead, consider reducing the 6.2 percent assessed to the employee to a lower rate and possibly, depending on the income generated, consider dropping the 6.2 percent to all income earners.

This takes nothing away from the Employer thus removing any corporate objections. It has the potential for decreasing the burden on people earning below the present cap of 97,500 and as far as the earner who foots the additional 5%, it is bearable. It simply means that their paychecks won't go up after the present cap value although the SS contribution will slightly reduce.

Anyone who objects, TOUGH!!

Thanks, GunnyG
Thanks for bringing down another stupid liberal like Kahryl who have nothing better to do than make silly suggestions to raise taxes and completely put the economy in the toilet. On the other hand, we do need stupid people like Kahryl to make perfectly clear just what the libs have in mind for us. Way to hit yourself in the face with a pie, Kahryl! I love it when a plan comes together!

Kahryl
In a nutshell, you show the same lack of brains that all liberals show.

Here is what you bleated:

1. Raise taxes

2. Lower benefits

3. Raise the retiring age

Raise taxes on the people AND employers. How original. Of course it stifles the economy but you lib/commies don;t care. Monney just grows on trees.

Lower benefits. Absolutely and totally stupid. You're an idiot. If you got a CAT scan, it would show an empty cavern. You want people AND their employers to be FORCED to pay into this PONZI SCAM and get LESS in the end! Yeah, 1984, I get it. "Less is more."

Raise the retirement age. To what? 100? I get it, Catch-22. Just keep raising the age until NO ONE can collect!

You'd have people be FORCED to contribute to a fund easily skimmed by politicians, that returns a measly 1-2% when the Thrift Savings Program, for example, returns 7-9% and it...GOV'T RUN!

I wonder how many people pay into this Ponzi Scam and never collect? They die before they retire, are divorced, their kids are over 21, and Uncle Scam keeps the dough.

Wow, that's SO FAIR of the leftists.



OF COURSE it's not a Crisis
Unless all the estimates are ridiculously optimistic, there is just no way Clinton will be in office when the whole thing implodes under its own weight.

So, when the whole thing implodes, it'll be somebody else's problem.

By the way,
"Ironically, it was not Republicans, but her husband Bill, who declared the Social Security system in crisis as his lead message in his State of the Union address in 1999."

This is a lie. Bill Clinton does not once use the word "crisis" in his State of the Union message, nor does his tone suggest that Social Security is in crisis. He simply says that it faces long-term problems, as any of us know.

Here is his address for those interested:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9806EFD91230 F933A15752C0A96F958260

So what does Hillary think should be done about Social Security? It's true that it's definitely a back-burner issue for her. The position she has been hinting at should surprise no one: raise taxes on high income earners:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21268578/

I agree with Kahryl's plan
Raise taxes and lower the benefit or virtually eliminate it by age for those forced to contribute the lion's share.

Let the public know that it's a leftist welfare program that is going to cost them more for less or no return.

I support this idea for the same reason the Democrats recently wanted to institute the draft.

A crisis?
Something that will become a problem in 25 years is not a crisis. A crisis is a problem that is damaging us right now. So, no, social security is not in crisis.

Of course, there's no time like the present to do something about it. Here's 3 brilliant ideas to nudge the finances of Social Security back into the positive:

1. Raise taxes

2. Lower benefits

3. Raise the retiring age

Or some combination of the three.

The biggest source of the deficits SS will be experiencing soon is that retirees are living longer - thus a greater percentage of an American's life will be spent drawing benefits from SS.

Obviously if people are living longer, they'll be able to work longer on average. So personally I favor solution 3 the most.

When social security was introduced, 65 was a very advanced age. Now the majority of people live many years drawing benefits. Let's update SS to reflect modern life spans.

There! Problem solved. Was that so hard?

And even if we foolishly decide to ignore the problem, it will resolve itself by default - benefits will be lowered sharply whenever SS runs out of reserve money, to match its revenue. Social Security won't collapse, it will just suddenly shrink.
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