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Monday, June 25, 2007
Star Parker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Michael Moore's latest scam
by Star Parker
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


What's the difference between art and propaganda? The artist wants to communicate and share and the propagandist wants to manipulate.

Michael Moore is a talented filmmaker, a great marketer, and a superb propagandist. Those skills have now been invested in his latest film venture about health care, "Sicko."

Part of the shtick, of course, is the portrayal that he's a man on a mission. A social crusader -- a kind of Ralph Nader whose medium is film.

"I mean, it is really disgusting," he says, "when a guy in a ball cap with a high school education is the one asking the tough questions....Criticize me? No. Somebody, really should show up and say, 'Thanks.'"

But a lot of people are showing up and saying "thanks." It's why Moore, from what appears to have been pretty humble working class beginnings in Flint, Mich., is now a multi-millionaire and far from being a simple guy in a ball cap. Folks are saying thanks by plunking down fistfuls of dollars to see his films and buy and rent his videos.

Moore's last film, "Fahrenheit 9/11," a broadside attack on the Bush Administration and the war on terror, grossed $220 million worldwide and cost $6 million to produce.

Is he a social commentator? A man who lives to reform?

No, this is an entrepreneur from the far political left with a business model that is serving him very well. The usual left wing Hollywood con artist, who talks socialism and gets rich off capitalism.

Moore's films are to social commentary what pornography is to human relations.

Find vulnerabilities and hot buttons, stimulate, provoke, exploit and sell tickets.

I've had a chance to see "Sicko" because I was on a TV panel that hosted Moore as part of his promotion campaign.

The film, which cost $9 million to produce, and likely will generate nine figure revenues, is out of the usual mold.

It pitches socialized medicine by cherry picking stories that allegedly testify to the success of the government-run systems in Great Britain, France, Canada, and even Cuba, and then finds horror stories to show how bad things are in the U.S.

I shot an e-mail to a friend, an American, now a long time resident of Great Britain, and asked about their National Health Service. Here's the response:

"If you end up with an exotic disease that requires a lot of care, you're screwed. For example, the waiting list for any kind of major surgery is long and for things like knee replacements you can wait for three years. Alzheimer's drugs aren't available on the National Health Service because they're too expensive. More and more people are paying for private health insurance cover, and more and more companies are making it part of the perks package. So, Britain will end up with a two-tier system before too long where the "rich" get good private cover and the poor or uninsured have no alternative to the NHS."

Moore and his rich left wing Hollywood buddies won't have to worry about the inevitable shortages and distortions of socialized medicine. They'll simply be living in their own private care universe.

Cuba? Call any Cuban expatriate here, and I've talked to a few, and they'll tell you that the shoddy local care is never what a foreign visitor would see. What we do know is that Cuba has the highest abortion rates, highest suicide rates, and lowest fertility rates in our hemisphere. And we also know that any Cuban that tries to exercise free speech, like Michael Moore luxuriates in here, would soon become a non-person.

We do need health care reform in the United States. But problems get solved through analysis and integrity and not with sensationalism and exploitation.

We already have massive government involvement in our health care markets and there is good reason to believe that this is at least part of the problem. A third party payer system subsidized by the tax code and a patch work of state regulated programs and, hence, no national market.

Government run Medicare and Medicaid are in fiscal crisis and rote with distortions, waste, fraud, and abuse

Michael Moore thinks health care should be free. Why doesn't he distribute this important work explaining why for free? After all, he's said "...I made this film because I want the world to change."

When word got out the other day that a pirated edition made its way onto the Internet, his friend and distributor, movie mogul Harvey Weinstein, went into high alert taking online countermeasures to prevent distribution.

Moore himself, ever cool, said, "The more people who see it the better, so I am happy this is happening."

So give it away for free, Michael. You'll be ecstatic.

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About The Author
Star Parker is the founder and president of CURE, the Coalition for Urban Renewal & Education, a 501c3 think tank which explores and promotes market based public policy to fight poverty, as well as author of White Ghetto: How Middle Class America Reflects Inner City Decay.
 
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We don't need more from Moore...
Star, I caught you on Ba-ba Wa-wa's show, the View, this past week and thought you did a great job. The audience must have been selected from an extremely liberal cesspool. You are too good and bright a person to be on a liberal clap trapper show? such as that piece of trash.
Michael Moore said to you that he is Catholic!!????!! What a poor excuse he is as a representative of the Catholic Faith. You should have exposed him and stopped him in his tracks by asking him what he believes about the Eucharist in his Church.
Please don't judge the Catholic Church by characters like Moore, Teddy "Chappaquidick" Kennedy, Biden, and dissidents all. The Holy Spirit guides the Catholic Church until the end of time. And woe to those bad catholics who constantly try to tear down Christ's Church instead of building it up as Jesus commanded.
Star, you are more Catholic than many, many of those people who are Catholic in name only. They need our prayers and you need your own TV show!

Moore as lousy propagandist
I heard Star was going to be on the View and tivoed it. What struck me was the fact that Star couldn't get a complete answer out without Joy Behar or Baba Wawa interrupting her. It gets annoying how they pick one tiny phrase and blow it up while completely missing the gist of the answer.

Moore, on the other hand, is given to complete fabrication and gets challenged by no one. He indicated in his interview that Nixon was a leading proponent of HMO's and that they were invented in his term. He actually purported to have found some tape that no one else has apparently heard. Actually, HMO's have been around in this country since shortly after the turn of the 20th century. The first federal laws mandating HMO's as part of a smorgasbord health-care package by employers were enacted under Jimmy Carter. Moore starts from a faulty premise and cherry-picks pseudo-facts on which to base illogical, pre-concieved conclusions. He's only made a few movies but they all follow the same pattern of disinformation and distortion. It started with "Roger and Me" and his template has never changed. Since he fits the leftist template, however, he is accepted in Hollywood and thus, the MSM. And the propogande goes on.

I have a favor to ask of Moore and his ilk. I am tired of them telling us that the U.S. is the lousiest place on earth and that every other country, including tin-pot dictatorships like Cuba, is better than we are. If they truly are better than the U.S., move there. Then we wouldn't be bothered by your propoganda - you'd be locked up or at least shut up. But since you are already in the greatest country on earth, work to truly make it better, not imitate all of the failures around the globe!

Surely...
...having "no alternative to the NHS" is better than having no alternative. I've lived under both systems and know which I prefer. The US system is great as long as you have insurance and don't mind forking out a considerable sum once the insurance company can work out a reason not to pay.
As the author correctly states we in the UK have the option of private health care for non-emergency conditions and from my experience it is a lot simpler to deal with than the health insurance policy I had in the US.

Mr. Right is Wrong on this one
Sorry to step on your toes so abruptly but this is a subject that is more than just a little familiar to me as I'd been in the health care delivery system since the middle 1950's and have had a hand in this out of control health system of ours from the days of the $5.00 office visit and $10.00 a day hospital room. It was a time when group health insurance was just beginning to make it's way.

It was to my great distress that I found myself in charge of the largest Medicare fiscal intermediary in the entire USA in the latter 1960's very soon after Medicare and Medicaid became household words. This put me in charge of more than 200 of the most ill-informed personnel ever assembled to manage a health care delivery system, a group that had been quickly cobbled together to get a mega-large cost plus government contract to "manage" a system that was out of control from the day it began.

After months of grappling with this horror story, I was told to leave well enough alone, and the words are fresh in my mind when told "Don't rock the boat" when attempting to establish much needed fraud detection, incomparable fraud, a great deal of which was coming directly from the medical and hospital community itself. I won't get into Ross Perot's fine contribution to this terrible blight on our history but that's another story which may never see the light of day because of the precious few of us who were there when he hijacked the system.

What many of you don't know is that, within no more than a few months after Medicare began, hospital room rates in most major California cities doubled, then tripled. That was also true of doctor's fees as everyone had caught on quickly and were reaching out for the brass ring.

Non existent extended care facilities were popping up everywhere and they'd send a bus out to skid row, round up the drunks, putting them into hospitals for the required 3 days and then transferring them to the ECF for another few weeks. It was a great solution for the homeless and the greedy operators of the ECF's who were aided and abetted by physicians eager to get their under the table kickbacks.

Of course, this wasn't just happening in Los Angeles, word spreads quickly and soon the same thing was going on all over the USA. Computer systems were so completely fouled up, they had been patterned on models from IBM where Perot was the chief coordinator for Medicare. Then he formed EDS and the rest is history. Perot didn't just rescue our guys from Vietnam.

Okay, back to Mr. Right. His summation of HMO's is partly correct. Henry J. Kaiser did, in fact, establish the Kaiser system before and during the World War 11 war years and there was also the Ross-Loos Clinic in Los Angeles that operated a scaled down version of health maintenance.

And Michael Moore's revelation about Nixon's role is accurate except for Moore's "discovery" of secret papers. Unless, of course, Congressional Records and Laws passed by Congress are SECRET. For it is entirely true that the Nixon Administration passed laws which set the HMO's in motion. You can verify this here:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/democracy/doctors.under.the.knife/stories/hmo.history/index.html


The above article is undated but appears to have been written in the late 1990's, see the accompanying chart.

and here:

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/print.php?pid=4092 Big Secret????

Nixon's plan received only lukewarm reception but was soon followed by the ERISA Act of 1974, an outgrowth of Bobby Kennedy's investigations into misused pension funds.

Any of you who were involved in corporate management may remember the furor brought about by ERISA and the mountain of paperwork which it engendered. But the mandate of ERISA forced employers to now recognize the HMO and required that it be offered. The administration of these was assigned to the Department of Labor. But unfortunately, no such subdivision was ever created and there was no one at the Department of Labor ever hired to do this job. So much for unintended consequences.

Suddenly, the same creeps that had built the ECF's now had a chance to take America to the cleaners again and HMO's began popping up all over the country, to the point where insurance companies developed their own HMO's to compete.

The law firm which I was associated with in California was already the most feared by the insurance industry. To our credit, we had done some pretty decent things to change shoddy claims practices in the health insurance industry and set our sights on the HMO's. They very cleverly hid behind ERISA and, quite honestly, we gave up the crusade as it was simply not cost effective to pursue. I retired in 1983.

Send a camera crew up here to my little paradise in the forest on Vancouver Island and let me assure you that we can quickly dismantle "SICKO" for the fabrication that it is, better still, let me do an interview at a large medical facility just South of the Canadian border. Every day, the parking lot is full of cars.........with Canadian license plates. Moore's credibility would be reduced to a comedy act.

And while I'm at it, the Senior Medical Policy Advisor for Hillary Clinton's failed universal health care plan in the early years of the Clinton Administration was still in medical school at Harvard, he had yet to become a doctor.

He's now in practice and is also writing for the New York Times, Atul Gawande is his name and you'll surely see this name again as the subject of Universal health care takes center stage.

Thanks for reading, if you managed to get this far.


PJAL
I stand corrected. I thought, incorrectly, that HMO's were forced upon us in 1977 instead of 1974. Perhaps I shouldn't be posting here while under the influence of insomnia.

michael moore
michael moore and truth: polar opposities. Michael moore and self promotion and distortion: hollywood and liberal truth

No such thing as a free lunch
If you think its expensive now, just wait until its "free". We'll still end up paying for it, just indirectly through higher taxes, and it will suffer the same problems all gov't programs have w/ waste and abuse. We see SS heading for disaster, as well as Medicare, and somehow we think we can also afford another program of similar fashion? Can Amercians no longer do simple math? I have a suggestion: let Moore set uo a fund for the unfortunates in his area and pay for their healthcare out of his pocket. Lead by example.

Free ???
First of all, there is no such thing as free healthcare. Somebody pays. What they are really saying is they want it free for themselves...and don't tell them about somebody else paying. After all, it is the government.

The most insidious concept is "the right to health care." Having a right to anything that someone else has to provide, as opposed to the right to free speech which requires only that someone else do nothing, is that the one required to provide the healthcare now has no right whether he wants to provide it.

What does one call someone who must provide a service for free or at whatever price some third party, such as a government beuarocrat deems appropriate, decides? The word is SLAVE.

IOW, every government program that mandates that some people pay for anything for use by others is just another notch down the path to total involuntary servitude; i.e. slavery, there the most incompetent dictate to the able.


at a local hospital
a lady on medicaid arrived in the ER via ambulance.....she had a splinter in her finger.
that is a true happening.

one nurse was mad enough to bite nails

every damn entitlement produces fraud. ENOUGH IS
ENOUGH......

Who's the propagandist here?
Star Parker: What's the difference between art and propaganda? The artist wants to communicate and share and the propagandist wants to manipulate.

Phylo: I agree Ms. Parker, and this piece of yours falls squarely in the latter camp.

Let's look at the facts:

First, several times she criticizes Moore for making money. What exactly is wrong with making money? It's not hypocritical to want socialized medicine and still be a capitalist. There is no reason why these two things cannot co-exist in a productive and healthy society.

Ms. Parker no doubt realizes this, but she wants to play to the populist sentiments of her readers by attacking "the rich". Funny how Republicans will happily play the this card whenever it suits their needs.

Second, she criticizes Moore for cherry picking stories and then does some cherry picking of her own by using an e-mail from a friend as evidence that the British system is a mess.

She then uses that anecdotal evidence to explain why socialized health care will result in two separate health care systems; one for the rich, one for the poor. Forget for a second that she's sounding an awful lot like John Edwards, and think about how much better that would be than what we have here; which is health-care for the well-off, and nothing, zip, zilch, nada, for everyone else. At least in Britain, everyone has health care coverage.

Third, and this is a particularly shameful bit of propaganda, she uses the lack of free speech and high abortion and suicide rates as evidence of the lousy health care in Cuba. Huh? And these things have exactly WHAT to do with health care?

If these are your best arguments against Michael Moore's film, Ms. Parker, I'm very encouraged about it's prospects for changing the way America thinks about health care.

Phylo out.

vespanat
If the British system (NHS) is so great, why do you need private insurance? Why do the royals use private medical care?
When I was in the US Navy my ship made an extended stay in Portsmouth for some yardwork. Three of our sailors were injured (broken bones, rotator cuff tears etc). They were given a choice of using NHS or being medevacced home. They chose going home.
Canadians cross the 48th Parallel in great numbers to receive needed care here in the USA, because of the long waits, and quality of care.
After a rotator cuff repair, I did a little checking. In Canada, it would have taken me three-four months just to get the MRI done, and another five-six months to have the surgery. My MRI took three days to repair, and the surgery was scheduled for ten days later, mainly because it took that long for my employer to approve my leave of absence. Total cost $80.00 for the rental on one small piece of equipment. I think I'll stay with US healthcare as it is instead of a national non-care system.

Observations.

It will never ever cease to amaze me... just how easily some people fall for such obvious and blatant propoganda.

Star Parker... you are quickly becoming a national treasure. You go, girl.

Michael Moore... talking socialism, getting rich off capitalism. Nuff said.

Phylo... you really need to stay on your meds.

YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh
YouLibsMakeMeWantToPukeOrCry. I'm not sure which. I know you want to raid my wallet, to help pay for all your grandiose plans. Please tell me just one of your programs that has worked the way it was supposesd to, at the cost it was supposed to.

socialist libs
How are you being treated in the ward?
Hope you rest well & be sure to take your medicine.
Good luck to you

phylo
Who's the propagandist? Moore, that's who. All his movies have been nothing but biased propaganda pieces promoting a leftist agenda. Since you say in Britain at least everyone has healthcare coverage, they should since they are paying for it. That coverage comes from their pockets via taxes. It would be the same here, but end up being another gov't program running over the budgets. We can't handle the pending disaster of social security, medicare and medicaid, so why would you think another gov't program that entitles everyone to "free" healthcare? It doesn't add up. Rather that attack Ms Parker for pointing out the obvious on Moore, why not call Moore out for these tactics of cherry-picking? He's done it in all his movies. We should ask why don't more Americans have health insurance? Are they setting aside the money to pay for it, or spending it on other things and hoping nothing happens? Its called personal responsibility. We don't more gov't, we need less.

YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh
I realize that is asking a lot, expecting you to open your mind, but give it a try!

YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE!!!!!!!

youmakemelaugh
Sorry pal, I wouldn't give Moore a dime of my money to support his trash. The guy lies and makes no bones about it. When he and all his lib buddies in Hollywood leads by example, then maybe I'll listen. Until then, its just more hot air from the leftist elites.

RE: YMML
"HMO " Started with NIXON, FEB. 18, 1971"

Actually, that is factually false, but what else could we expect from a kooky commie like yourself?

In all fairness, the decline of the US insurance/health care system began in FDR's era.

You see, FDR, like all Keynesian idiots, thought the best way to "help" the economy is by placing the entire government under complete government control. During the Great Depression, FDR mandated wage and price controls (under the auspices of "making things better"...10 years of "making things better" we needed a war to REALLY make things better). Since the employers could no longer use higher wages as a means of attracting valuable employees, they began offering company health insurance policies. Of course these policies only existed as long as you worked for that company, and were canceled as soon as your employment at that company was terminated.

This, of course, led directly to the "problem" that HMOs were aimed at solving -- the "problem" of your health insurance being tied to your employer.

Now, of course HMOs have their own series of issues, which makes the current health insurance problems the PERFECT example of the Law of Unintended Consequences in action.

FDR should have kept his Stalin-sympathizing meat hooks of the US economy, and that would have thwarted the need to "fix" the BS he began.

Correction
"You see, FDR, like all Keynesian idiots, thought the best way to "help" the economy is by placing the entire government under complete government control."

Was supposed to read:

"You see, FDR, like all Keynesian idiots, thought the best way to "help" the economy is by placing the entire *ECONOMY* under complete government control."

Universal Health Care in 1 Easy Lesson
From Yahoo! News, today: "Travelers trying to comply with the more stringent passport rules have been stymied by serpentine lines and four-month-long backlogs."

For "passport" substitute "universal health care," and imagine yourself facing a four-month-long backlog for an appendectomy.

Wish I'd Said That
Star Parker says...

"Moore's films are to social commentary what pornography is to human relations."

Great line!


Phylo the Fizzy
Phylo, with his usual acerbity, attacks Star Parker (not her argument). Phylo writes, "several times she criticizes Moore for making money. What exactly is wrong with making money?"


Actually, Parker never stated that "making money" was wrong. She was pointing out the hypocrisy of a man who hates the capitalistic free-market system but who also uses that same system to make oodles of money.

Phylo also claims that it's Star Parker who is the propagandist. What Filo misses is her point. Moore is the "hot button pusher" propagandist.

Moore is the propagandist who claims that nationalized health care systems are superior to market-driven health care systems, and "proves" it with anecdotal evidence. As Star pointed out, Moore cherry-picks success stories about the socialized systems "and then finds horror stories to show how bad things are in the U.S."

Philo, read pjal's comment at 5:14 AM. It's a first-person account of what happens when government attempts to manage health care systems.


Bman
I hate to tell you this, but I am a school teacher (History, Gov't Eco), and an Adjunct History Instructor at a local Community College. You might not believe this but most teachers work their asses off trying to get our students to learn. I do agree with you about Federal intervention in education. We don't call No Child Left Behind. We call it Every Child Left Behind. I am so tired of teaching to a test to make the Feds happy. We are teaching a test not content.

Sick of bad healthcare
I am sick to death of hearing about the US healthcare system and how bad it is....Please for all the experts (translation: Idiots) out there, go to another country for your healthcare.....I am in healthcare and wouldn't set foot anywhere else BUT the US for my care. And because Star Parker is probably limited to a certain amount of text in her article, she couldn't possibly include all the stories about the failed health systems elsewhere.

RE: YMML
Open a freaking history book, kiddo. Every single thing I stated is a DEMONSTRABLE fact. Unfortunately for kooky commies like yourself, those things called "facts" are TERRIFYING.

It is utterly unfair to start at the 1970s, and had you the IQ of a flea, you'd know that. The HMOs were created in order to solve the problem that policies that your Stalin-sympathizing idol created. Spin all you want, but that can't change those facts.

The way you avoid REAL truth makes me think you are, yourself, Michael "I cannot tell a truth" Moore. He represents the DICTIONARY DEFINITION of traitor -- even going so far as to blatenly flaunt travel prohibitions to an enemy nation. Had Bush the testicular fortitude he claimed to have when he was elected, he'd have issued an Exectuive Branch arrest warrant and tossed that treasonous and libelous slime ball in prison where he has long belonged.

Moore the great prophet
What we all miss with Moore is that he is the Left wing prophet. He is laying the ground work for what the Left wants to brings us, not themselves. Moore, Gore, Edwards, the Clintons, most of the Hollywood left no full well they will never have to wait in line for surgery under a national health care program. Yet they all support an agenda that will take from the "rich", not them they can afford to protect their wealth from the taxman, but anyone making more than about $60K filing jointly.

If you plot the increase of health care cost vs the intervention of some government supported or managed health care and one will note that there is a direct correlation.

Yet my greatest giggle, in all this are the trial lawyers. Trial Lawyers are the single largest group supporting the Democratic Party. If government runs health care, who will trial lawyers sue for malpractice. With government run health care ultimately doctors, nurses and all health care workers will be either employed by government or their salaries will be controlled by government.

The number one treatment today for most ailments is not surgery but medicines. If the government regulates cost what incentive will there be for pharmaceutical companies to invest in new drugs or "stem cell" research.

By the by, how many of you out there know what stems cells are?

YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh
I think you failed Poli Sci 101 or never took it. The US is not, nor has it ever been a democracy. The US is a Republic with representative democracy. We elect Senators, and Congresscritters to represent specific states and districts to theoretically represent the wants and desires of the people. They don't necessarily do so, but they are supposed to.

MakeMeLaugh
You need to read, "Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Man" by David T. Hardy and Jason Clarke. It would answer all your moonbat rants.
I realize that is asking a lot, expecting you to open your mind, but give it a try!

You can also visit Moorelies.com and Mooreexposed.com

Moore is an idiot who makes millions off even bigger idiots.



Moore Is A Liberal Liar - Is That Redund
01. Like Star says, why doesn’t Lard Boy Moore show HIS FILMS for FREE is he so passionate about changing the world.
02. There is a Heart Attack that would drop an Elephant heading towards Lard Boy Moore. When it happens, LET’S SEE IF HE FLIES TO CUBA FOR MEDICAL CARE!

PS Complete Subject Line
Moore Is A Liberal Liar - Is That Redundant?

Bman
Bman: What part of SC are you from? My first job out of College was as a Deputy Sheriff with the Richland County Sheriff's Dep't in Columbia. I still miss SC, and try to visit whenever possible. Great people and a great place to see.

Scams and Leisure Time
OPINION: ITS ALL ABOUT LEISURE TIME
Leisure time. Sounds great doesn’t it. The short spells that intermingle with working for life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is the reward. Especially when it’s shared with other leisured friends that are blessed after their efforts. Unemployment causes leisure time as well.
Hunting and gathering is a simple way of describing our daily survival. One way to make a living is to entertain those that have leisure time. Enter Michael Moore, Bill Maher, Rosie O’Donnell and a variety of successful entrepreneurs who zero in on those confused by too much leisure time.
The disciplines of daily life, hunting and gathering, security for our family, are understood by the responsible sane however we all have a curiosity for things that could titillate and bring laughter and joy. Many things like war and crime do not have reasonable quick explanations to ease our anxiety when they come close to home. So there are others that can create one of many explanations, and in so doing make a profit. The above mentioned trio has, to me, a common thread of using a talent that takes advantage of illiteracy in the subject they focus upon. Not surprising is that the illiteracy is theirs, as well as the captured audience. Adolescent naivety... sells.
One most important aspect that insures their success is they are protected by freedom of speech no matter how repulsive the message.
Bill Maher has made a good living for years trashing Jesus Christ on stage. Strange that his cowardice ‘freedom’ doesn’t attack Muslim lunacy as well. Fear of Fatwa death contract may play a role in this. Although he may now defend this notion that he has mentioned it, after twenty years past Salmon Rushdie’s ‘death contract’ has faded. Rosie O’Donnell has so many unhappy personal mental problems to hide that the stress of hiding them is the foundation of her celebrity as well as her adolescent education of American History that is exposed. The fact that we see it and she doesn’t is the shtick that sells her. Michael Moore has a mix of both personalities, and to pick any subject of domestic anxiety, true or false, can be milked by injecting it on film to be enjoyed by loads of illiterate adolescent minds with plenty of leisure and cash for a ticket.
Investors, slick in this knowledge and selling this profile of digression-of-reason, will keep it flowing on TV and film, however the proliferation of electronic communication will create in many others...the great yawn.

Bman
I was assigned to ships homeported in Charleston, limited duty at NAVSTA Charleston, and Shore Duty at the Weapons Station, so I know the area fairly well. Love going down to the Battery, Isle of palms, and Sullivan's Island. Charleytown hasn't been well represented since Mendel Rivers died.

Lying Little Repub rots in H*11 !
And this is an example of how kind, generous, and understanding libs are.

STAR! JUST FOR THE RECORD
I do admire you, Miss Parker - since your involvement with "Project 21" -
I have first heard about you from Rush...
Hapeau bas!! :):):)

KEEP ON

Aside to YRMML:
ANOTHER name change?!

Why do you need so many aliases?

MM
As a conservative, I truly don't understand the fuss. Just ignore Fat B@stard. He's been discredited, selectively clipping interviews for his movies, saying he has no investments when he does, claiming to be from Flint when he isn't.

Think of his effectiveness in 2004, when he made the virulent anti-Bush movie. How'd that work out, Fatass? Nobody with more than five brain cells takes him seriously.

Reality always skews Left
Roman writes:
"Star, I caught you on Ba-ba Wa-wa's show, the View, this past week and thought you did a great job. The audience must have been selected from an extremely liberal cesspool."

Yeah, called America.

YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh
You would know facts, if they bit you on the butt. Ad Hominem Attacks yes, facts no.

Icedog-
"Moore is an idiot who makes millions off even bigger idiots." -excellent assessment!
Michael Moore may be the best thing we have going for us! PLEASE PLEASE tell me most people -liberal OR conservative - with half a brain can see through this guy's ridiculous assertions! CUBA's health care superior to the USA's! Are you kidding me?! I know several missionaries who go there regularly, and they assure me, the average Cuban citizen would be more than happy to swap health care systems with us!



YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh
He should have gotten more examples of how the "universal healthcare system" works around the world.

Except that it does NOT work. You want to see government run health care, YouMakeMeWantToPuke, go to your nearest VA Hospital. As a Veteran, I know from experience how bad it is.

Perhaps, laughing-poster,
you might try debating w/o villifying all who disagree with you and confusing anecdotes for empirical evidence. Personally, I've only flagged a post as offensive once, a couple of weeks ago when someone- I can't recall whom- posted the same 2000+ word cut-and-paste rant for the third time. That's the argumentative equivalent of a three year old's temper tantrum.

As for those four examples which demonstrate the inferiority of the US health care system to all the others in the world: That must be why people are just STREAMING out of this country in order to obtain medical care!

ATTENTION
The dolt posting under YouRepubsmakemelaugh is a 15 y.o. troll. Keep that in mind when you read his posts.

Bman
No no my friend, you have it all wrong. In socialist/communist countries, SOME PIGS are MORE EQUAL than others. Thus, the workers suffer equally while the party members get the best medical treatment that a capitalist society can offer.

Moore is a Nazi Propagandist
Michael Moore is a Nazi propagandist, which explains the dishonesty of "Sicko".

The truth is socialized medicine in Canada and Britain is so bad that it is literally deadly to patients.

The massive numbers of Canadian patients in US hospitals prove Canadian 'medicine' is a moral horror. Life saving surgeries that are common in the US, and are routinely done for poor people free of charge, require years of waiting in Canada. Many Canadians die waiting for routine cancer treatments and surgeries.

The quality of Canadian healthcare is worse than in many 3rd world countries. Most good Canadian doctors have left the country because of the problems of socialized medicine. Many of the doctors left are incompetent or butchers (by US standards).

In Britain, much the same is true. Shortages of doctors are now so acute in the UK that the majority of new doctors are graduates of medical schools deemed "unsatisfactory" by the AMA. That's right, most new doctors in the UK can't get licenses in the US because their medical education is so bad.

As to Cuba, calling its 'doctors' "doctors" is a grotesque lie. Throat slitting criminals is a better term.

Michael Moore's movie is a moral atrocity because it can lead some unsuspecting person to believe good medical care is available in places like Canada, when in fact such treatment is likely to end at an undertaker.

Bman
"Why did Castro fly in a doctor from another country to "fix" him if the health care in Cuba is so great?

Gee let's Guess!!
I'm not his Doctor."

Gunny did warn you about the intellectual capacity of the sophmore you are debating. Next will come the "I know you are but what am I" argument.

when i saw
mickie moron er i mean moooore talking on television, watching his mouth(maybe it wasn't)
and the people he adressed.......well i hope
none produce any children..

YouMakeMe...
It's not a matter of having an open mind. When someone has been thoroughly discredited, as Moore has, he is no longer afforded any benefit of the doubt in future endeavors. And that's the difference between Libs and Republicans. When our guys get caught, they are shunned and told to go away. When a liberal is caught lying, cheating, and/or stealing, it is treated like a resume enhancement. They achieve even greater heights.

JeffRob
Thee's only one logical fallacy here:

"The audience must have been selected from an extremely liberal cesspool. Yeah, called America."

Do you see it yet? Let me help. "America" doesn't watch "The View" (or any other show). CERTAIN Americans watch certain shows. The ones who watch the view are generally liberal, and likely unemployed.

I checked...after the great Rosie came on, The View "soared" to 3.4 million viewers (or 1.1% of all Americans). By comparison, a recent RERUN of 60 Minutes drew 7.4 million viewers.

Because a few people with no job watch this vapid show proves nothing, except how sad their lives are.

HMOs
I thought the first HMO (employee health plan) was set up by Kaiser (the ship builder) during WWII? That's when health insurance began to be a fringe benefit offered to compete for workers... HMOs were set up to save money - control overutilization - you see employer's quickly figured out that when you offer something for free the consumser doesn't care how much it costs or if its necessary. The HMO model makes sense however its an easy scapegoat when someone doesn't get what they need.

National Healthcare would only bring more control over our lives - it would justify government telling you what you could eat, drink etc. The government would have a financial interest in your health - In England Moore would be denied certain services because he is too large and thus a too much of a risk to waste money on - (you think American HMO's have mean cost benefit analysis) - just try justifying getting a man with a BMI of 45 angioplasty in jolly old England...

YMML makes me laugh
First he asks me to prove what any 4-year-old could look up in 2 minutes on Wikipedia, then makes wild claims about a "super top secret behind closed doors and no one heard" conversation during the Nixon presidency.

Uh huh.

I think I hit it right on the head when I identified you as Michael Moore. You are a slime bag, plain and simple. If someone offered to pay you $100 million to utter a single truth, you would be fully incapable, instead creating your VERSION of truth..."truthiness", in a word.

I'm sorry FACTS scare you. That you are so frightened that your love affair with communism...as it applies to OTHER people...isn't drawing more people to your side. Perhaps it has something to do with the more than 100 million murders committed by your ilk in the 20th century alone.

YMML
YMML says, "Stop the Repub Rant and SEE THE MOVIE!
Try opening up that closed mind!"

What a riot! Open your's first. Actually listen to what the man has said in the past, then check the facts. He's been proven wrong in his other movies, so why should I listen to him now? Once a liar, always a liar. I'd be a fool to listen to anything this guy or you say. You are obviously an indoctrinated socialist who has given up thinking for himself. Too bad for you, maybe you can go live in one of your socialist dreamlands and let us know how its going? If you believe your own tripe, then show us and leave. If you bothered to check any facts, you would have seen that I am right about these gov't programs. As I said, the big 3 we already have are dying because of cost overruns and impending financial woes in the near future. Can you read? The word has been out there for awhile, especially on SS. Exactly where do you think all the money to pay for a universal healthcare system will come from? Before ranting like a typical lib, try and think this one out for yourself. There is no magic tree where this money will come from. I'll let you stew on it awhile. Maybe your mom will tell you the answer.

GunnyG
It's good to see you back, and in fighting form, I've missed you.

Response to YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh
YRMML types, "DocNoleCat -PROVES BushCo doesn't WORK -- "Travelers trying to comply with the more stringent passport rules have been stymied by serpentine lines and four-month-long backlogs." -- All you prove is that Bush's lunatic responses are destroying our system."

Now, take a deep breath, YRMML.

Whether or not "more stringent passport rules" are in fact a "lunatic response," what we see happening is that the federal government bureaucracy is apparently incapable of rapid response to an increased demand in a commodity (passports) that they control, even when THEY THEMSELVES CREATED THE INCREASED DEMAND.

Now, if the feds can't respond rapidly to a foreseeable (because self-created) demand for a limited-market product(passports), why do you believe that they COULD respond rapidly to all the unforeseen changes in demand for a product that affects every single American?

I'll go even further. You, YRMML, obviously believe "BushCo" is equal parts incompetency and insanity. Think of your ideal federally run "universal health care." Now imagine "BushCo" in charge of it. Why do you want to give ANY administration that much power?


Bman
YouMakeMeWantToPuke wrote:

Why did Castro fly in a doctor from another country to "fix" him if the health care in Cuba is so great?

Gee let's Guess!!
I'm not his Doctor.

Maybe Castro flew in a Spanish doctor because he knew his was undertrained, incompetent, inept, and maybe qualified as a Medieval barber-surgeon.

How many have seen sicko?
Um, who cares? You have a LOOOOOOONNNNG history of totally fabricating your movies. Were the court system in this nation not totally broken, you'd have been sued into poverty a decade ago. But NOOOO! Here in the year 2007, you could use CGI graphics to superimpose Shrub's head on some kiddie-porn rapist, and claim it is a true documentary about how he's a child mollestor even though it is the DICTIONARY DEFINITION of libel.

From your BS "Bowling for Columbine", where you spliced together various words Heston said at different times to make it as though he were some crackpot Nazi to the ridiculous lies and kooky unproven conspiracies of "F-911", you are a known liar.

All one needs to know that this "documentary" is also an outright fabrication is the fact that you claim that the Cuban health care system is better than our own. Such a claim is ridiculous on its face, and has ZERO bearing on reality. Period. End of sentence.

You are a shill. You are the modern day Joseph Goebbels. You entire purpose for doing what you are doing is NOT to "help" anyone except your favorite band of fascist dictators.

Repeat your lies all you want. That, though, can NEVER change the FACT that they are lies.

Like I already said, had Shrub the testicular fortitude a president ought to have, he'd have tossed you in prison months ago for treason. Maybe in a couple of decades you coulc get out and do a movie on the US federal prison system, with first hand experience.

Am I a terrible person?
When I see a liberal defend Michael Moore's movies and his character, I have to laugh a little inside.

It's like watching a puppy getting their head stuck inside a paper bag. It's funny at first, but then you just start feeling sorry for their lack of cognitive development when they walk into walls and stumble into furniture.

The difference though, dogs grow up to be smart.

OK, let's cherry-pick
1. Naples, Italy. Friends; husband was a low-paid American clergyman with a local Baptist church, and was NOT eligible for the health care options available to Americans posted to Naples by the federal government.

This family therefore had to rely on Italian national health care if anything went wrong. Son, eight, broke his arm and was taken to the ER on Monday evening. Family was told to bring him back on Thursday, because that's when they set broken bones.

2. Yokosuka, Japan. Wife of a fellow Naval officer was pregnant, and learned in her fourth month that she had a complication that would mandate constant monitoring and bed rest from her sixth month on, and would probably make the delivery difficult. If not handled properly, the delivery would have been more likely than normal to cause her to bleed to death.

The Navy hospital in Yokosuka couldn't handle this problem -- not surprisingly, since military medicine doesn't specialize in pregnancy complications; and even Stateside, for active duty members, typically has to contract them out to the civilian medical community.

This wife made one visit to a local Japanese obstetrician in the national health care system. He was an English-speaking doctor who had worked with Americans before; the source of her discomfort was that his attitude about her problem was along the lines of "the life of woman is hard, we hope you don't have to die, stay in bed and come back when your labor starts."

She and her husband worked with both their families to get her sent back to the States to a civilian hospital for the rest of her pregnancy. Very costly. They're probably still paying it off.

Worth it? Not to nationalized health care. Japan and Italy are both in the forefront of science and technology, developers of medical instruments and procedures, with highly respected research institutions and physicians. But that doesn't translate into availability of the best medical care to clients of the national health care systems.

In the US, the latest modern care -- drugs, diagnostic tools, practices -- IS available to us. However, as I've pointed out elsewhere, the modernity of our medicine isn't what makes it so expensive. Rather, it's the bureaucracy that attends the socialization of medicine that we have already accomplished. We don't HAVE a free health care market today; we have one in which the government intervenes to effectively set the price of services, through Medicare and state health care programs.

And keep in mind: ANY program, government or private, that has to make payments for services will function to ration those services according to a target model based on averages, and bounded by the payer's bottom line.

This is the immutable logic behind "my insurance doesn't pay for that." Well, Medicare doesn't "pay for that" either. Medicare produces waiting lists, as anyone with an elderly relative knows; and there are innovative, expensive, and exceptional procedures it won't pay for at all.

Universal availability is incompatible with exceptional treatment, AND with instant treatment. So the more socialized medicine becomes, the more you'd better hope your health problems are all the kind that you can wait to have fixed, and that don't require anything extraordinary to address.

I rest my case:
"People can come to Cuba and see any doctor under "universal healthcare"."

See what I mean about YMML/Moore's inability to tell the truth. This is 100% DEMONSTRABLY false. Yeah, "universal health care". You get cancer, they "universally" say "sorry, your treatment is too expensive"...that is unless you are some superrich elite, or are being used as a propaganda tool.

"Dr's can come to Cuba to operate under "universal healthcare"."

Yep, they sure can. Just don't expect sterile hospitals, modern medicines, and any decent equipment. Cuban hospitals are 3 steps below Korean War MASH tents.

"Maybe not better, but an IMPROVEMENT!"

In the United States, it is a FELONY to deny needed treatment, even if the patient is an illegal alien with no hope of ever paying. And, oh yeah, you are treated by doctors who have actually gone to college to get a medical degree, have the best equipment on the planet, and work in a sterile environment. Yeah, Cuba has that...NOT!

"See the movie for yourselves, don't rely on uninformed repub rants."

See the movie if you like science fiction. Anyone who thinks ANYTHING vomited from Moore's huge pie-hole is anything but a lie is too stupid to be allowed to vote. His lies aren't even SLIGHTLY believable if you have an IQ exceeding room temperature.

You May get Whiskers in a few years
How many have SEEN SICKO................
and how many are just repeating the "Repub rant"?

A. I haven't, and won't. His other "documentaries" have been thoroughly discredited.

Talking points are worthless without facts to back them up. You would think all you "smart" repub's would want to decide for yourselves, wouldn't you?

A. Where are your facts? Are there hordes of people I don't know about flockin to Cuba, the UK, and Canada for medical care?


YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh
So the next time you need major medical care, haul your sorry butt to Cuba.

Democracy:
"Democracy is about the power to meet the needs of you and your community as a whole."

Stalin agreed with you. The ~20 million people he murdered, however, didn't.

"The word democracy itself is derives from the ancient Greek demokratia, meaning " the people rule"."

And the Greek philosopher Aristotle called democracy nothing but anarchy by another name. I'll take if from a guy who had an IQ of about 240 over you, a person with an IQ barely rivaling that of a flea.

"It is time to use our Representative Democracy and make "Universal Healthcare" a priority."

Indeed. I can't stand not having to wait 7 months for an MRI. This "oh, you can have your MRI tomorrow at 8:00 AM" BS is really irritating me!

"Since you have offered nothing but talking points without even seeing the movie, you offer nothing to a real debate."

And yet the talking points are at least honest. You can't say the same about your beloved movie.

I rest my case:
Like I have said before, you want to see government controlled medical care go to your local VA Hospital. The VA here has lost my records, one day the records existed, the next they didn't, and they have no idea how to find them. What makes this even more interesting is that I am a Disabled Vet, and w/o records there is no way for the VA to refill my meds. The bureaucrats told me to have my personal physician forward copies of my records to them, so they could have a set. At least my personal physician knows and prescribes what I need. Unfortunately the meds I should receive at no cost due to my service connected disability, now cost.

You may get a license someday
Just when I though you couldn't get any dumber, I saw this:

"Democracy is about the power to meet the needs of you and your community as a whole. That is what truly makes it a Democracy. Choice under "free market" depends solely on the freedom to choose based on money and/or power. This "free-market" logic doesn't belong in a Democratic Healthcare System."

The United States is not even a democracy, and never was. It's a Republic. Ask your teacher about "The Rule of Law".

You should ask about the Constitution in Social Studies. Look up "free health care".

BTW, in a Democracy, if 51% of the people are okay with it, it's the law. Under that system, we'd STILL have slavery.

YouMakeMeWantToPuke
I HAVE been to Cuba, and you can have it.

Learn Some Poli Sci
YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh writes: Monday, June, 25, 2007 1:51 PM
beowulfe - since you like Stalin......
Please leave the Democracy of America

Again the USA is NOT a Democracy. It is a REPUBLIC.

Been to Cuba?
"Since I really don't think ANY OF you have been to CUBA or seen the MOVIE, case closed on that subject. Nothing but swill on your parts. YOU KNOW NOTHING!"

Apparently I know a HECK of a lot more than you do.

There are a little over 1.2 million Cubans in the United States (as of 2000). Why didn't Moore interview even ONE of them to see how the REAL Cuban health care system works? Instead Moore relied upon the PR campaign by Fidel Castro. He saw only what Castro wanted to see. If you are basing your account of the Cuban health cares system by Moore's account, they it is YOU who IN FACT, knows nothing.

"Th movie rationally exposes that "free-market" health care doesn't belong in a Democracy."

And the Transformers movie exposes how we need to prepare ourselves for an invasion by evil machines that want to kill us. The only difference is that Michael Bay claims his movie is fiction, whereas Michael Moore FALSELY claims his movie is a documentary.

And cut-and-pasting the same discredited drivel doesn't changed the fact that it is discredited drivel, kiddo.

ymml
Silly child, will you never learn?
Your words,"People can come to Cuba and see any doctor under "universal healthcare".

Dr's can come to Cuba to operate under "universal healthcare".

Maybe not better, but an IMPROVEMENT!

See the movie for yourselves, don't rely on uninformed repub rants."

Guess what, people can see any dr they want here in USA as well. The only thing is they have to pay for it. By the way, what type of gov't does Cuba have? And exactly how much freedom do they have? If you don't know, look it up, or ask your mom. If their healthcare was all that great, Castro wouldn't have had to bring in drs from other countries.
USA has better doctors because their in an incentive to become a doctor. It pays very well. Now, if you think its better to put your healthcare in the hands of someone who is paid as little as the gov't can get by with, then by all means go ahead. Just remember, you get what you pay for.
And, I'll say it again, no I will not see your hero's movie because I already know what he will say. He is a liar and I will not give him any of my money to promote his lies. You are the one uninformed, and from the looks of it, in no hurry to learn anything about the real world. Maybe when you grow up and have to work for a living, you'll change your mind. Or just become another leech off society.

By your measure...
Hey, YMML, it is YOU reading Stalin's talking points kiddo. If you think Stalin lovers ought to leave the US, then you should set the example and GTFO. I'm sure your boy-toy Fidel would welcome you with open arms in your beloved Cuba. You get all that "universal health care" you think works so great and everything!

YRMML
I would like to apologize for all the conservative posters who have been criticizing your semi-illiterate comments. I’m sure that from the perspective of your mom’s basement, your ideology and opinions make perfect sense. It is wrong for the other posters to poke fun at you.

To all the conservative posters here...shame on you! Would you go to the Special Olympics and boo a double-amputee for a slow run time?

MRB7420- Got thrown out...............
No, Castro does have a problem throwing out Naval Personnel at Gitmo.

BTW, when are you leaving for the Socialist "Paradise?"

nanna
Thanks. Yeah, mooks like Youmakemecrap are a joke. Whether he's 50 or 30 physically, he's got the mental age of 15 and it's locked in!

You want more fury? Check out my new story line on my blog. Ripping liberals into the gutless pile of crap they are.

Thigh Master
Good points about "fairness". I think you missed the salient point of the Fairness Doctrine (FD), which is "liberals must be overrespresented in mass media".

Let's talk about newspapers and magazines. Are Newsweek, the LA Times, the NY Times, etc conservative or liberal? (Hint: liberal). Does the FD apply? No. Bceause it's "printed material".

How about TV? Same questions for ABC, SeeBS, CNN, and their ilk. well, 90% of reporters admit to being registered Democrats, but there's no bias. Does the FD apply to these? Nope. they're already liberal, so this doesn't apply.

Now let's look at talk radio. The higher-rated shows tend to be conservative commentators. So, obviously, on top of funding NPR with taxpayer money, on top of launching Air America, now we need to muzzle Rush Limbaugh.

Clear now? Of all major media, the ONLY one that the FD applies to is the one where there are more conservatives than liberals.

The whole idea is stupid anyway. Is it "fair" that more people want to watch the Super Bowl than a rerun of Gilligan's Island? Is it "fair" that Katie Couric makes $15M a year, 37 times as much as the POTUS, and her show comes in third of three every night? (Note to SeeBS - I'll do her job for $1.5M and still come in third, okay?). Liberals just have their panties in a wad because somebody conservative wants to talk, and worse, somebody wants to listen (unlike Air America). Note to liberal fascists - good luck controlling the Internet.





ThighMaster
PLEASE post a SPEW ALERT next time. Calling weenie bot YMML, you make water in your pants was SPOT-ON for that teeny-bopper bedwetter! Kudos.

AZPhil
If the commie libsquirts take over the Internet and Talk Radio, we'll still the word out on a low tech scale. They'll never win.

ThighMaster
Thanks, for the defense. YouMakeMeWantToPuke would last about five seconds in a real debate. Like most libs, he resorts to the Ad Hominem Attack, and calls it fact and legitimate debate. As my logic prof said many years ago the Ad Hominem is the weakest of the Logical Fallacies as it indicates a very weak argument or a weaker mind. In YouMakeMeWantToPuke's case, I'd definitely say the latter.

youmakewaterinyourpants
"This "free-market" logic doesn't belong in a Democratic Healthcare System."

WHAT A DIAPER LOAD!

This "free-market" thing is what gets doctors to IMPROVE their skills and go back for MORE education so that they can earn MORE MONEY! It's called incentive.

If you want a doctor to cut on you who doesn't see the need to improve their job skills have at it. Me? I'll take the ortho who did my shoulder arthoscopy. The BEST GUY on the EAST COAST and available through Tricare Prime!

youmakemefeel sad foryou
Your rant, "All the ranting can't change that. Since you have offered nothing but talking points without even seeing the movie, you offer nothing to a real debate."

So far, you are the only one ranting. Since you keep saying the same thing over and over, you are the one ranting. Do you pay for your own healthcare insurance? If not, then how do you know its better in another country? Have you gone to Cuba to see for yourself? Just because Moore says it doesn't mean its true. Before you believe everything you read, try checking it out for yourself. All I hear from you is telling us how good it is everywhere else, but you don't actually have any experience to back that up. If you're so gullible that you automatically believe it just because Moore says it, then you have a lot of growing up to do. I've mentioned a few times already that you libs never seem to explain how this universal healthcare is going to be funded. Care to enlighten us? Just because its called "free" doesn't mean it is. Drs, nurses, exams, medicines, machines, hospitals cost money and somebody has to pay for that. Care to tell us who will pay for it? Before you repeat the same mantra again for the hundredth time, try and think it through.

You May Get a Girl Who Doesn't Inflate
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the democracy, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisble, with liberty, justice, and free health care for all.

YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh
Michael "Michelin Man" Moore has done America a great service. NOW we understand why all those people in need of medical treatment are building rafts to escape Miami and head south.



afsarge
I suspect that YouMakeMeWantToPuke has never had to pay a tax bill in his life. Free universal healthcare is neither. Taxpayers would get stuck paying the bill, and get none of the benefit. YouMakeMeWantToPuke does not understand the concept of TANSTAAFL.

HMO's and
Wackos telling Quackos how and what to prescribe to Sickos is the great failure in HMO's. We all know medical Doctors, Nurses and other personnel associated with medicine should be the ONLY people involved in the health care of patients.

Doctors and Nurses spend more time with paperwork than with patients and are dangerously overworked to meet quotas established by HMO's whose ONLY CARE IS PROFIT and NOT one whit about the healthy outcome for the patient.

I'm fortunate to be covered for any medical treatment I WANT FROM THE DOCTOR I CHOOSE and I do not even pay for the visit. ALL PAYED by my insurance. My R/X is inexpensive also, i.e. a $100 prescription costs me approximately $15...not too shabby. How does this happen? I am a retired U.S. Marine. I have the same insurance as your politicians have.

I would like to address the 40,000,000 + uninsured about Health, Life and Dental Insurance as an idea, not only a way to insure them but, every American born citizen from birth to death and every Legal Immigrant with a Legal Workers Permit or Visa who swears allegiance to and assimilates into the United States of America.

Every American citizen will be taxed through their Social Security Number at birth. The parents of the children will be taxed according to their income until the children reach the age of majority. If the children are not gainfully employed or attending an accredited Vocational School or College at the time they reach majority they will automatically be called for National Service and Military Service in the U.S. Government or enlist in their choice of Military Service.

All other American citizens and immigrants with Legal Workers Permits who are gainfully employed will be taxed through their Social Security Number or Legal Workers Permit Number for their Health, Life and Dental Insurance according to their income.

When the American citizen or legally working immigrant becomes temporarily unemployed for any reason their insurance premiums will be paid with funds collected by their employers until employment resumes there or the worker attains employment with another employer.

During times of unemployment the American citizens Insurance Premiums will be paid by the U.S. Government as low interest loans to the American citizen until employment is attained. At this time low interest loan will be paid by monthly installments from their checks until the loan is paid in full.

My approach also is to appeal to illegal immigrants who are involved in this dilemma of the uninsured, to announce themselves to the nearest local government their desire to speak English, assimilate and swear allegiance to the United States of America to begin the process of becoming legal workers and eventual citizens of our country.

Otherwise the illegal immigrant will not be covered by this insurance and will pay for any treatment received and sent back to their country.

YRMML

I have three questions for you;

1. Are you Michael Moore?

2. What are you smoking?

3. When are you moving to Cuba?

Oh, laughing-boy:
Remember what I wrote 90 minutes ago about people repeating the same thing over & over?

Now try holding your breath 'til we give in.

Will
It's not easy being open-minded to a guy who was caught lying about Columbine, meeting Roger Smith, and cutting off Congressmen's answers to make them appear different.

Also, his source for how great Cuban health care was CASTRO! No Cubans in Miami, no Cubans in Cuba, just Castro. Of course it's great health care for him - he contracts out to Spanish (i.e., competent) doctors. I'm just saying using the guy who's been dictator for half a century doesn't add to MM's credibility, and he was startnig at zero.

And I'm not in a frenzy, fake or otherwise. I just don't want to see this stupid movie. I'd rather spend the two hours whittling or something.

FromTheTop1
At what rate would you tax everyone? You maybe a reired Marine, be able to afford a 40-60% tax rate, but I know I can't.

will
You are as off base as you can be.
your comment, "You guys are reacting (& salivating) to the mere mention of Moore's name. You are trained sheep. Don't think, spout the party line (or what you THINK the party line is)"

Is this your 1st day on this site? Otherwise you wouldn't say such nonsense. In case you missed it, most people here, "conservatives anyway" do not spout the party line. If you're looking for your sheep, check your boy ymml and you'll see your party line. If you like Moore's movies, fine, watch them, but don't tell me I need to watch his movie to see what he has to say about our healthcare system. When they guy has been outed as a liar in his past movies, why should I give him the benefit of the doubt now? And just because the critics love him doesn't mean anything. They love every movie he makes because they think like him. The guy has made a fortune off mischaracterizing America, the 2nd Amendment, the president, and basically every other topic he makes a movie about. Sure, I could pretend he would actually make a movie devoid of his liberal bias, but then I'd be foolish to think that.

More laughing points!!
Yeah, it's about how the free market doesn't belong in health care. Uh huh. And your lover demonstrates this by flat out LYING. Yeah, REAL persuasive argument, kiddo.

There is only one of 3 options for YMML. He is one or more of the following:

1) He is really Michael Moore on a propaganda campaign here on the TH message boards in hopes of ginning up more viewership for his most recent crockumentary.

2) He is really dumb enough to think that 2 + 2 really does equal 5 in Cuba.

or 3) He's just another Marxist of the Ted Kennedy type who thinks that Marxism ought to be imposed...on OTHER people...so that those other people are never able to pull themselves out of the third-world poverty and challenge the elitist power he clings to.

Perhaps he's all three. I don't know.

Here are some FACTS from a doctor from Cuba that defected in 2000:

"By the time Dr. Cordova started practicing in 1992, equipment and drugs were already becoming scarce. He said he was assigned to a four-block neighborhood in Havana Province where he was supposed to care for about 600 people.

"“But even if I diagnosed something simple like bronchitis,” he said, “I couldn’t write a prescription for antibiotics, because there were none.”

"“Actually there are three systems,” Dr. Cordova said, because Cuba has two: one is for party officials and foreigners like those Mr. Moore brought to Havana. “It is as good as this one here, with all the resources, the best doctors, the best medicines, and nobody pays a cent,” he said.

"But for the 11 million ordinary Cubans, hospitals are often ill equipped and patients “have to bring their own food, soap, sheets — they have to bring everything.” And up to 20,000 Cuban doctors may be working in Venezuela, creating a shortage in Cuba."

And guess where THIS was sourced from? From that "wacko right wing rag", the New York Times!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/weekinreview/27depalma.html?ex=1338004800&en=93765aa2237c194c&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

Bman
I'll help him pack!

health care
Many years ago I found myself in a bad situation - I was pregnant, a mother of one son, and my husband decided to leave me (and not pay child support.) I had an entry position job making $830 a month, my house payment was $410. My job offered health insurance for a fairly small cost. Throughout these years, I sought work that offered this benefit. I supplemented my income with roommates and odd jobs I could work in on weekends. With hard work, life eventually got easier.
Today is no different. If health insurance is a top priority in an adult's life who is able to work, they can & will get it. It may mean working at a job you find less enjoyable, or it may mean giving up a new car for a used one - whatever. The problem is that this is not a top priority for many people until they are hit with an illness. Young adults, in particular, are willing to take the chance of not having insurance. Also, because 42(?) million are uninsured does not mean 42 million are without care or swimming in medical debt.

will
How many times can you be lied to before you stop believing a person? Twice? Five times? 100, 500? If you caught your wife cheating on you for the 40th time, would you give her "just one more chance"?

Moore has been exposed for literally hundreds of blatant lies in his crocumentaries...why do we need to "reserve judgement"?

Visit Moorelies.com or Mooreexposed.com

RE: will
"Is it POSSIBLE to reserve comment until
we've actually seen the film?"

Let's imagine for a moment that some guy robs a bank, then gets caught and sent to prison. After serving his sentence, he again goes out, robs a bank, and sent back to prison. After serving his sentence for the second bank robbery, the very first thing he does is rob yet another bank, and gets sent to prison.

Now during a parole hearing after robbing 3 banks, this guy claims "But, but, give me a chance! You don't know that I'm going to rob another bank!"

If you were on the parole board, would you say "You're right! This whole parole process is stupid, everying ought to just be let free as soon as they come up for parole?"

THAT is EXACTLY what you are saying when you say "see the film first". Michael Moore has a known history with his books and movies of totally and eggregiously fabricating the so-called "facts" -- slapping together a collection of outright lies and conspiracy theories and calling them "documentaries". Even left-wing PBS labeled is last "documentary" a "crockumentary". The guy is a professional liar with a stated anti-American agenda. His goal is NOT to tell the truth, it is to rip apart this country, and make as much money from stupid people as possible. Plain and simple.

Free
The first word in "free health care" ought to tip people off right away - it's not free. SOMEONE has to pay for it, and that someone will be taxpayers (i.e., not YRMML). It would be great to live in a world where expensive medical equipment and medicine just materialize out of nowhere, but we don't.

And why stop at helath care? Let's reform legal care. I want OJ's defense team, not a public defender. I want a will written for free, free divorce lawyer, and a free title company when I buy a house.

That's different, because it's not a matter of life and death, right? Yeah, I guess OJ wouldn't be inhaling cyanide gas now if he had had a public defender.

Oh that's right - Congress is full of lawyers and hardly has any doctors (one I know of), so never mind. No sense regulating OURSELVES - just others.

Healthcare: Us vs. Cuba
Discussing whether the US has a better or worse healthcare system then Cuba, is the equivalent of asking, which is better, left-wing government controlled healthcare, or right-wing government controlled healthcare.

There was a time in this country in which someone without health insurance, could call a neighborhood doctor when their child was sick, during a snowstorm, and have the doctor make an affordable house call ($2, or $10 if you adjust for inflation).

There was a time in this country when a parent could send three kids to the doctor for check ups, the doc would make their appointments at the same time and charge the parent for the price of one (which would have been $5, or around 25 if you adjust for inflation).

Since that time, we have passed medicare, medicaid, HMOs, and a prescription drug benefit. The end-result is the most expensive health care system in the world.

Arguing between the US healthcare system and the Cuban healthcare system is like arguing whether socialism or fascism is better. The arguement is a moot point because free-enterprise, as proven by our country's history, prior to government intervention on a grand scale, is what works best.

MRB7420
Actually, Ammerican service people have not been well represented since Mendell Rivers left congress, although I doubt that the present congress would let him remain as Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

Clyde9

A couple of points
1. Parker identifies Moore as being a poor blue-collar kid from Flint. In reality he grew up in the well-to-do white-collar suburb of Davison. He is a classic example of a lazy, fat, spoiled, child of the sixties that had everything provided for him, giving enough leisure time to document his total inability to appreciate or even recognize the free market economic system that took very good care of him then and has since made him rich.

2. For YRMML. I don't know anything about it other than what I've read in this article and thread, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Nixon invented the HMO. It fits perfectly with the rest of his thoroughly incompetent domestic agenda. This included arbitrary "price-wage" freezes, which resulted in the first-ever shortages in peace time, the EPA, and OSHA. If you've noticed that these are all LIBERAL initiatives go to the head of the class. Also, be informed that Nixon bragged that his economic policies were driven by the fact he and his advisors were Keynesians.

When Nixon added obstruction of justice and bribery to his repertoire the Republicans in DC told him they would NOT save him from impeachment (the way the Democrats would letter save Clinton) and he was forced to resign.

So you can save the criticism of Nixon. It doesn't apply to conservatives. He was never one of us and we are the ones who forced him to resign.

3. Finally, the free market works as well in health care as it does in any other industry. And recent history has shown that the more it is subjected to government regulation and interference, including intrusive litigation, the worse it performs. Just like any other industry. The big lie that propels the national health care movement is that private sector health care doesn't work when it is actually the government-run/regulated/litigated parts that are broken down and corrupt.

If Canadian or European style socialist health care were superior to ours we would not have Canadians AND Europeans coming across our northern border to pay cash for health care they allegedly can get for free in their own countries. I live in a border state (Michigan) and I meet these people every week.

Will
"The guy DOES have talent"

Well, Al Capone had some organizational skills, too, but I remain skeptical of his morals.

"And take what you can from the movie"

I would rather be on a 600-mile drive across the desert with a broken radio and only a Michael Bolton CD than watch anything this lardass produces.

Interesting fact:
"I live in a border state (Michigan) and I meet these people every week."

The state of Michigan provides more MRIs to Canadians than the entire nation of Canada. There is as much as a 7 month wait for an MRI in Canada. I could get an MRI tomorrow if I needed one in the US though. GG "universal health care"!!

YouRepubsMakeMeLaugh
A Waste of Oxygen and Skin!

Cookie
allow me to steal from Walter Williams in saying, "go to the front of the class"!
Good post!

will
Cheney is not the decider. Quit posting pure stupidity. Quite frankly who gives a rat's *** if it was posted in some rag somewhere? Nobody. It's all conjecture, nothing more. Can't believe the stuff people fall for with little or no proof what so ever. AMAZING!!!!

Will
Nobody's asking you to believe anything Bush says. However, he is "the decider" about troops, not Congress, because he is Commander in Chief.

If yuo want to believe what MM says, fine by me. But he has a long track record of lying in his movies.

GWB's credibility was shot (to liberals) before he took office, because he won the electoral vote and not the popular one. Yes, Florida was close, and yes, GWB still won. He was the thrid or fourth president to lose the popular vote and win the presidency, but to hear liberals tell it, this was as rare as a sighting of the Abominable Snowman.

Jan
Your post was on the money. It's about priorities. I am friends with a couple here whose husband cannot seem to stay employed. She is self employed. She was complaining about not qualifying for assistance with medical insurance. Yet she has the money to send her two children to private school. She could buy more insurance than she would ever need with the tuition of even just one of her kids. Ridiculous. People need to learn you have a right to what you can pay for. PERIOD! But then again these are the same people who will tell you the economy is bad because they lack the intelligence to prioritize and manage their money.

Bman
Thanks!

I see naptime is over for YRMML. Be prepared for more drivel.

Parker's Tired Tactics
There, you go, Star. If the message is threatening to the conservative world view, blame the messenger. Suggest that Moore is insincere, point out that his movies have been profitable (imagine that), and that he is really a "socialist" despite his capitalist success.

Furthermore, engage in the usual conservative tactic of pointing to real or alleged faults in other countries' health-care system while ignoring the myriad reasons why polls show that the majority of Americans favor a national health care system. And also ignore the fact that thanks in large-part to wholesale purchase of congressional votes by a rich, powerful---and unnecessary----health insurancePa industry, the United States is now the ONLY advanced industrialized country (out of more than thirty) without such a system.

Are all of those other countries "socialist"? Of course not. Do they simply fail to see the "benefits" of a health system based strictly on profit? Hardly. They all left such systems behind in pursuit of something better. Are their current national systems perfect? Of course not. But by studying what has gone well, or not so well, in each country, we have a golden opportunity to create a system as good or better than any that have gone before.

Rocker
I don't need to waste two hours. In five minutes, i learned this:

Michael Moore says he's from Flint, when he is from affluent Davison.

Michael Moore says Roger Smith wouldn't talk to him, when the latter did at length.

He made up a story frmo whole cloth about the day of the Columbine shootings.

He claims to have no investments, but his Form 1040 says he does - LOT.

He wants everyone else to hire minorities, but refuses to hire any himself.

Hey, fool me once, shame on you, fool me 350 times, shame on me.

Johnin Oregon
Be careful...when the flood of Canadians overwhelms Washington's doctors, Oregon will be next!

YRMML-Will-Rocker
All these ALCOA triplets need to do to; to go from STUPID to CRAZY is screech for Ron Paul!

Johnin Oregon
I just saw this: "blame the messenger. Suggest that Moore is insincere, point out that his movies have been profitable (imagine that)".

No one is 'suggesting he's insincere' - we are flat out saying he has a proven track record as a liar, and why should this movie differ from the rest?

I don't care if his movies are profitable. I care that they are propaganda masquerading as documentaries. Therefore, I don't go see them.

Notice this is different from when liberals don't believe something. When Ann Coulter came to speak in Tucson, liberals showed up and threw pies at her. If Michael Moore showed up here, I would just stay home (besides, he might view pie-throwing as just a nice greeting).

Bman
I didn't know asses would go through the Townhall censor!

The NHS

"Sicko" "...testifies to the success of government-run systems in Great Britain..."

A few examples of that "success":

Diabetics over a certain age, (60 or 65, I believe) are denied insulin--it's considered "a waste of money."

People who smoked and now suffer lung problems-- ditto, besides, it's THEIR FAULT, so let 'em die.

Overweight people denied joint replacements -- they're too fat. (Never mind that confinment to a wheelchair is at least partly to blame for the extra pounds.)

The National Institute for Clinical Excellence (NICE)* has banned a drug which can delay the onset of Alzheimers. The cost? Two pounds fifty pence (just under $5) A DAY.

*NICE -- creepily reminiscent of C.S. Lewis' "That Hideous Strength".

Will
I agree with you: "The Constitution must ALWAYS win, hands down."

Now, and I think you alluded to it as well, the problem (one problem of many) is with activist judges. As a conservative, I wholeheartedly agree with your quote above, BUT I want judges to stop "finding" things in the constitution. Their 'penumbras' and other such legal nonsense is just that. This is a reason WW3 breaks out every time a Republican president nominates someone to the Supreme Court - liberals know what a ridiculous foundation Roe vs. Wade sits on, like bales of straw in a flood plain. Liberals can have all the abortions they want for all i care, but let's quit pretending it's a constitutional right. Some (in D.C.) are trying to interpret the 2nd Amendment as saying the states can issue guns to people. If you want to live by the Constitution, I'm behind you 100%, but it is not a living document.

Cowboy
If Dick Cheney propagandizes, he's pi$$-poor at it - i can go months without seeing him on TV.

ThighMaster
You have to know it; before you can tell it!

BMan
Speaking of "it Takes an Idiot", I have had the exact same theory about the Dixie Chicks latest album. It went something like double platinum the first few weeks out, then nobody ever bought it again. There was also a large disconnect between radio airplay and sales, which are usually somehwat correlated. Maybe all the liberals who normally turn up their noses at country music, and couldn't tell a banjo from a bass, went and bought a few copies each, then threw them away. it's a pet theory of mine.

Back to "It Takes an Idiot", what's funny is that it is likely the best-selling book of all time that wasn't written by the author, and wasn't read by the buyers! How ironic is that?

Gretchen
Thanks for the glimpse into the rosy future of socialized medicine. I can't wait!

One for Will
Why is it OK for Michael Moore to become fabulously wealthy trashing America with his for-profit propaganda but it's a moral abomination for millions of ordinary people to make a "profit" by providing health care that saves and improves the quality of lives?

will
I don't know where you get your information on Jefferson but you are incorrect. I often find that to be the case with Jefferson and liberals. Liberals love to expound on Jefferson and pick and choose his writings, deeds, and words. More often than not they are downright lies or taken way out of context. Like George Washington and the Cherry Tree story. Let me get you started on your education. Jefferson was not the original liberal. He was the original libertarian. Jefferson also expounded and knew the benefits of Christianity on society, government, and civilization as he himself was Christian, but also admitted his own weakness' often got in the way of that.

rocker

Re: your comments about Moore being right.

The best I can say about Michael Moore is that he’s like a stopped clock, which is right at least once a day. But in Moore’s’ case, it’s not that often. Viewing his 3 most “notable” so called “documentaries”: Rodger & Me, Bowling for Columbine, and Sicko will attest to that. Lots of lies, half truths, distortions, and deliberately omitted facts. I realize Libs frequently come up short in the common sense department, but attempting to defend Michael Moore is a job only the delusional or the mentally retarded would take.
LMAO

Michael Moore
is a big fat stupid idiot.

Or, he's a big fat liar telling lots of big fat stupid lies.

Take your pick.

And pjal's post should be required reading for anyone thinking about universal healthcare in this country.

Phylo
Phylo, you say that Parker "several times" "criticizes Moore for making money" but there are only two references of any kind regarding Moore making money: 1. "Moore, from what appears to have been pretty humble working class beginnings in Flint, Mich., is now a multi-millionaire..." and 2. "Moore and his rich left wing Hollywood buddies won't have to worry about the inevitable shortages and distortions of socialized medicine." Those are not criticisms of making money. And, there is nothing wrong with making money.

Second, the email from her friend in Great Britain is only one of many that can be produced that would say the same thing: YOU KNOW THAT.

Last, the high Cuban abortion and suicide rates have everything to do with health care, not to mention the sickness of the system in general.

Phylo, you are just trying too hard to justify the unjustifiable, liberalism. Give up.

Wiseone
I can field that one for you. You know how certain kinds of speech (meaning conservative)have to be curtailed?

In the same vein, certain kinds of profits are okay; others are not.

For example, a drug company does research and discovers a new drug. let's say the research costs them $25M dollars. they want to recoup some of that cost, so they charge a certain amount for the new "wonder drug". that's bad.

If Rush Limbaugh has a contract worth millions to be on the radio, that's because he's "greedy".

If oil companies find, drill for, ship, and refine oil and it costs them $30M one year, and they charge enough to make $1M on a $30M investment, that's price gouging.

BTW, oil companies made about a dime per gallon on gas in 2006, much less than the federal taxes on that same gallon. But the taxes are used for noble things like, uh, well, never mind that.

If Barbra Streisand charges $1000 a ticket (and I think that is a low estimate) to hear her sing, that is just "the free market".

If George Clooney makes $15M for making a movie, that is just "the free market".

if Bill Clinton makes $10M for a single speech, that is just "the free market".

Now do you understand, wiseone?





I get it now
AZPhil,

Thanks. I needed that.

BTW - I too would rather listen to Michael Bolton try to sing "When a Man Loves a Woman" than watch one of Moore's flicks.

I find it curious that YRMML keeps harping at all of us to see this piece of garbage when we all know that (1) this is exactly what MM wants and (2) it will add to MM's profits which will then encourage him to produce yet another piece of garbage, and so on...

cowboy
According to you, "Art is what Angilina Jolie does.
Propaganda is what Vice President Cheney does."

Got any examples of that? Art is in the eye of the beholder, according to the art teacher. But what propaganda has Cheney put out? If that's all you got, then its weak. So far, every Moore movie has been nothing but leftist propaganda promoting his ideology. Or if you want bad forms of propaganda, how about when our democratic senators announce the war is lost? Was that the kind of propaganda you were thinking of?

Wiseone
I heard that atrocity a few years ago. If i were Percy Sledge, i would have put a contract out on Bolton after that.

Thighmaster
Dang it! You are so funny! I blew ice tea everywhere over that last post! Your killing me! LOL!

Robert
Since you're way off topic, this will give you something to think about:

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

Not that this has anyone to do with Michael Moore, but neither did your post. In bad news for you, conservatives can write stuff down now, so history doesn't restart at dawn every day now.





you repubs make me laugh
""CASTRO CAN SEE ANY DR.
That is one of the PLUSES of "UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE".
GET IT NOW!

YouR dumb spin just proves NOTHING!""

15 years old. No. Maybe 10 or 11

So any cuban under the great universal healthcare plan they have can fly in doctors from all over the world? outstanding. And, its free. Absolutely free. I'm in. beam me up scotty.

Bman
If Sharpton and Co. want to complain about whites oppressing blacks, I'm surprised they haven't burned down Mike Bolton's house by now. "Georgia", "When a Man Loves a Woman" (he doesn't buy her Michael Bolton CDs), "Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay". At least Michael Moore makes his own bad movies; this jackazz has to take good stuff and destroy it.

BMan and Wiseone
Good news!

In 1994, Bolton lost a lawsuit filed on behalf of Grammy-winning soul group The Isley Brothers on the grounds that he plagiarised their music in his song "Love is a Wonderful Thing." The courts decided on behalf of the plaintiffs, awarding them $5.4 million in damages and future royalties from the song.

Hitchhiker
Yeah, the Cuban health care system is great IF you are the dictator. Otherwise, questions remain.

afsarge
If Cheney was built like Angelina Jolie cowboy would believe his "art" too.

Will
You were the one who said we should go strictly by the Constitution. Now, maybe we shouldn't have NEEDED the 13th, 14th, 15th, and 19th Amendments, but the fact is, we did make the amendments.

If we are following the First, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments to the letter, the "Fairness Doctrine" should be DOA if it gets out of Congress.

You can pass state laws regarding "gay rights" all day long. All i am asking is not to just "find" the invisible ink sections of the Constitution any time you want a new "right", like abortion, or next, health care. And interestingly enough, the same activists who "find" all kinds of rights no one else can see are the same ones who read a few words called the 2nd Amendment, and immediately start trying to restrict gun rights, a ridiculous juxtaposition if I ever saw one. the only reason they haven't had more success is the will of the people, and frankly, because most 2nd Amendment supporters are armed.

If i wanted a 28th Amendment, it would be in the same vein as the 22nd - term limits for Reps and Senators, max of twelve years each. But if i were on the SCOTUS, i wouldn't just "find" that buried somewhere.

Wiseone
Jolie is a head case, but she does have some nice lips.

AZPhil & Will
AZ, thanks for re-inforcing my earlier point-with some details. Moore has been proven to be a liar and to be deceptive thus he is no longer afforded any benefit of the doubt. I will not give my money to a proven liar.

More Wacko's For Moore's Ego...
I took an independent poll of Moore's core supporters. Of the few I could locate... There is a common theme.
All of Moore's supporters I found, fall under two distinguished groups of people: "Alcoholics" and "Adult Children of Alcoholics".
Both groups fall into one sub-category... "self-absorbed narcissists".
Now look at the Democratic field and tell others what you see.

It never fails
Every time one of these Hollywood bimbos gets a little fame going she deludes herself into thinking the public "respects her for her mind".

It never occurs to them that what they all have in common is sex appeal.

Apparently in the the liberal world it's fine to make a starlet into a wealthy star because of her sex appeal but it's thoroughly evil and chauvinistic to actually express any lust for her body.

No part of Jolie's body, including her lips, makes her politics any more noteworthy than anyone else's.

I think she'd make a good sociologist.

YRMML...
Why does he even waste his time posting here? He is either a child.....or an adult with the mentality of a child. His postings are not only drivel...nonsense, but so immature that nobody could possibly take him seriously (even if he DID have an argument worth of debate). I just don't understand these libs who feel they have to post here at Townhall. He must be a glutton for punishment because he keeps getting his butt handed to him. same goes for Phylo and Hal Donohue but at least they present themselves in a more respectable manner.

Wiseone/ThighMaster
I agree with you about Angelina's politics. The only compliment you'll hear coming from me about her willbe in reference to those nice lips, not what utterances come out of them.

Thigh - thanks for mentioning Rosie O'Donnell, MM, and sex in the same sentence - I need to drop a few pounds anyway.

Hey ThighMaster: We all know that

Michael-The-Mooron has never seen a "fact" that he didn't fracture, or totally break altogether.

There were fifty-nine out and out documented lies in Fahrenheit 9/11...

Who in their right mind would believe anything else Michael-The-Mooron would try to dump on us?

Oh yeah, YMML and a few other imbiciles.



Michael who?
Star Parker got it right. Michael Moore is a slug.

"Topless Bikinis for Battered Women"

Pa-lease... look it up!

And, by all means, TAKE YOUR TIME!

Take a LOT of time....








Sorry, it was supposed to be............
Roberto: Do you know who Walter Mitty is???

But, it picked up a subject line from Kevin McCullough's column yesterday....

And, by the way, it was a good column that some posters quickly took right into the gutter... so don't bother


ThighMaster: Did you happen to see

Michael-The-Mooron's response when someone asked him if he'd consider moving to Cuba because the healthcare is so great?

What a blubbering idiot! I had to laugh out loud.

I'm still wondering why he DIDN'T have a gastro-bypass done while he was there...

And, of course, my very favorite was Fred Thompson's 38sec. video in response to Michael-The-Mooron's challenge to a debate about Cuba's healthcare system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdAm6UY4xOE

Fred got a standing ovation,,, right in my livingroom... (just like Dennis Miller after his little treatise about Harry Reid. LOL)





Thighmaster: One would think, but

apparently not.

But, what was it that P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

At least we all know where the suckers are. They're the liberals and they're following Michael-The-Mooron. LOL









A question
I thought MM was going to go to fat camp and hire a personal chef after his bogus 9/11 movie? He should move to Cuba, they will starve him since there isn't enough food in the entire country to feed him.

Here's what I wish
to everyone here extolling the benefits of the private health insurance market - they he be diagnosed with cancer (and a case in which the morbidity is low, and that he survives.)

Now, what happens to the person who has such a diagnosis? OK, let's say that this person had insurance. Yes, the insurance will be good for the rest of the term, and perhaps for another term. Then the "fun" starts.

You see, every few years, the insurance companies play a game with their customers. The ones that are still considered "insurable" (no pre-exisiting condition) will be offered to join another plan. Those who are considered to be "uninsurable" will not be offered to join the plan. And those insurable folks will be not be able to join another plan with another insurance company (or the plan that they join will not cover the pre-existing condition.) Even if this person tries to get hired by a employer that has a so-called "good" plan, will not be able to get covered under the employer plan.

I ask this question - what is this person supposed to do? And it's a very important question, BECAUSE THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME!

How did I deal with this situation? Very similar to the way that hemophiliacs and other folks with "uninsurable" situations do - they play the game. Part of this game is to not be as economically viable as what they could be. This should be an anethema to the supply-side conservatives, but it is not.

A simple first step to our nation's problem could be to let everyone buy into the federal employee's plan, and give everyone the tax benefits of insurance (or alternatively take away the tax advantages of employer provided converage.) At least the insurance companies would not be able to deny coverage (and in the process be able to slim down its bureauracy so that it doesn't have to concern itself with the costs of underwriting and investigation of pre-existing conditions.) With this in place, the private health care system MIGHT be in the ballpark with Medicare For All. Why hasn't the Republican Party taken the step to introduce this into law?

Of course, the next step would be to somehow make it so that working class folks could afford the plan - which would need to subsidized in some sort of way like the earned income tax credit to give people the proper inentive to continue to work. Then somehow put in a mandate like the one that Romney had done in MA, so that folks don't wait until the house is burning to buy insurance.

But then again, once these reforms would be put in place, I have a hunch that folks would realize that the insurance industrial complex would just be sucking off of the system, and it would be converted into Medicare For All. And this is the reason why the Repubs have not tried to reform the system.

Of course, in 2009, the system will be reformed.

swampwiz
No one said our system doesn't need to be reformed. But by reform, we don't mean convert to socialized medicine. We already have that in the form of medicare & medicaid and we see how well the gov't runs those programs. What we need is less gov't intrusion. Why do we think the costs of healthcare sky rocketed out of control? When you mix insurance companies & gov't together, you get over inflated costs that average joes can't afford. When the gov't/insurance will pay X amount for a procedure, the cost will always be X amount. There is no incentive to charge any less. If we switch to gov't controlled medicine, what do you think will happen to all those company plans? They will disappear. Why offer a plan when the gov't will pick up the tab? What will "free" healthcare be like? Visit a clinic that offers it, mainly one being used by our illegal aliens. Remember, just because its "free" to them, doesn't mean there is no cost to someone else. Be careful what you wish for.

youmakeyourselflookfoolish
Will you ever learn? How many times do you have to be slapped down before you get it? You have yet to argue a single point w/o falling back on your silly rants about "repubs". Maybe someday you will graduate high school and see what the real world is like. Until then, you have no clue what real life is all about. Just because you mommy takes care of everything for you doesn't mean you will be coddled all your life. You will learn one day. As I've asked over and over, how will such a plan be funded? Can you answer that or keep spouting your juvenile nonsense? Do you even have a job? If you ever get a job and start paying taxes, you will learn just how great paying all those taxes for all these programs really is. Tell you what, if you're so interested in paying for someone else's bills, you can pay for a few of mine. Give me your account info and I'll set it up so you can hook me up. How bout it pal? Can you sign me up for the universal bill paying plan?

thighmaster
well said, but i would add one more statement.
The "little" people in the democrat party as well
as the socialist liberal party(SLP) will get the
same treatment as those in the GOP, but by then
it will be to late to change.
I hope you in DEM party & SLP party understand
that is as true as true can be....THINK ABOUT IT

YouMakeMe...
You do make me laugh but I do feel sorry for your children-oops, check that, You killed them in the womb like a good, "clear thinking" liberal. Never mind. That's why your party is dying a slow death-you are killing your replacements.

YouMakeMeWantToHideMyWallet
Our resident TH troll has spent quite a bit of time extolling the virtues of the movie "Sicko".
You can boil down his beliefs to this, in his own words:

"Democracy is about the power to meet the needs of you and your community as a whole".

No kidding?
I didn't realize that...are you a Constitutional scholar?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that America was a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC whose PRINCIPLES are those expressed in the Bill of Rights!
Do you see anything in there about "meeting the needs of the community"??
Americans have the right to PERSUE happiness, not to have it given to them (at someone else's expense).
What you are espousing is SOCIALISM, and I say no thanks. Good news for you "Laugh"...you can always move to Canada or France to get your needs met.

Anyway...keep your grubby hands OFF MY WALLET.

PS: Every time I hear about Michael Moore it reminds me of H.L. Menkin's line:
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public!"

Moore's New Project
Has anyone heard about Michael Moore's next project?
It's about a fat Canadian hypocrite who makes millions off gullible American fools with slick propaganda about the inherent corruption of our system.
He's so rich that he sits around eating steak and lobster and caviar all day, when one day he gets so obese that he gets congestive heart failure!
He needs an ambulance, a highly skilled paramedic, an talented OR team, an internal medicine specialist, and a cardiac surgeon to save his miserable Canadian bacon...BUT there are none of these available in the US because socialized medicine has become the model for healthcare since the release of "Sicko"!!!!
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