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Saturday, July 19, 2008
Salena Zito :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Hatfield 'n' McCoy vote
by Salena Zito
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“The Appalachian voting bloc will be critical in the … 2008 presidential election,” former Democratic National Committee executive director Mark Siegel says.

Yet his broad statement comes with its own geopolitical caveat: location.

“It all depends on what part of Appalachia you are talking about,” says Siegel. “If they live in Pennsylvania and Ohio, then, yes, without a doubt they are the key voters. If they live in West Virginia, then no, because for the Democrats that is not a state that is in play.”

Appalachia is not a single state but a region that has its own unique frame (or perhaps frames) of mind that extend well past the borders of West Virginia and Kentucky, the states most often associated with the term.

As a geographical entity, Appalachia cuts a diagonal path from western New York to Alabama and Mississippi. The regions and cultures that go along with it include big swaths of Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, Maryland, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Tennessee.

Who are the people that live, work, raise families, go to church, defend their country and die in this region?

According to U.S. Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., the bulk of them descended from Ulster Scots (lowland Scots who migrated to the Ulster plantation in Ireland) -- a hybrid people, “strong and unfulfilled,” who came to America looking for a new start.

Descendents of the great Scottish warrior William Wallace, these immigrants brought with them a distrust of a heavy-handed government, a demand to worship God as they saw fit, the right to bear arms and the zeal to protect their country -- far more than any other ethnicity.

Many of those core values remained with these people as they settled in Appalachia, even as they married other early settlers such as Germans, Welsh and Native Americans.

Exactly who are these voters today?

In the Democrats’ primaries, they were the white lower- to middle-class voters in Ohio, Western Pennsylvania, Western Virginia, Kentucky and West Virginia who went heavily for Sen. Hillary Clinton.

They are not activists who attend rallies and speak out -- but they will vote.

They are hurting economically, the people most impacted by spiraling gas prices because they drive -- to work, to shop, to the doctor, or to care for an elderly parent -- and they have no alternatives.

Government has forgotten them in many ways and taken them for granted in others.

These voters are dedicated to family, country and God. That is not to say they wear those things on their sleeve for all to see; they don't talk about those things unless asked.

They are simple people who want their leaders to be honest with them.

All of which is why they became Reagan Democrats: Reagan sided with them on love of country and on economics. Today, the question is whether they will give that same level of support to John McCain.

Many of them respect McCain’s service and dedication to country -- but their pocketbooks have been emptied, and it happened on the Republicans’ watch.

“Economically, they should be voting Democratic,” says Siegel. “In terms of social values, they should be trending Republican. They are a very difficult political target.”

Political analyst and numbers-cruncher Michael Barone has noticed problems for Obama among this voting bloc, which he refers to as “Jacksonian” -- for the famed Scots-Irish president who was a friend to the warrior class in Appalachia.

“I don’t know if it is enough of a problem yet, time will tell,” Barone says. But he believes the challenge for Obama is that he is viewed as an elitist by many of these people.

Along with that, a tinge of racism is at play. But clearly it goes beyond that, to Obama’s style, his substance and the way he carries himself.

Everyone thought Karl Rove and George W. Bush were crazy to spend time and money in West Virginia in 2000; a Democrat-blue state, it only went Republican in 1972 and 1984. What Democrats missed was the change in their party from Bill Clinton to elite -- and it cooked Al Gore and sank John Kerry.

No academic has scientifically determined if Appalachia’s Scots-Irish heritage can predict its natives’ voting patterns.

That means the hows and whys of their vote remain wildly unpredictable -- as well as crucial to Obama and McCain, both of whom can claim Scots-Irish heritage.

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About The Author
Salena Zito is a political analyst, reporter and columnist.
 
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Liberal Elites
...like Obama and the super-arrogant Senator Webb,have no empathy for true-blue,God -loving Americans.They have been in their bubble too long.

It was no more than a blip on the radar when Webb's right-hand man was caught trying to take a gun into the capitol building.

A Republican would have been drawn and quartered by the media. Double standard to the utmost.

Let the Democrats play they 'class card'again this year. The Republicans will accept them with pleasure.


Neither Liberal R or Liberal D
Both Obama and McCain have no intention of enforcing our immigration laws or defending the country from the illegal alien inundation. They both are pandering to LaRaza.

America is worth saving. Vote American.

Scotch Irish were DEPORTED to Ireland...

Get your facts right. The British had conquored Scotland but weren't sure they could hold it, so the shipped everyone there over to Ireland. They did the same thing later to the Arcadians - who were shipped from what is now Nova Scotia down to the swamps of Louisana, where they became the "'Cagins."

In both cases, a people's inability to defend itself led to this -- and that means guns. The Arcadians gave up their guns as a sign of loyalty to the British and that was their downfall, I suspect the Scotch Irish made similar mistakes.

And don't underestimate Guns in this election...

Guns, butter and Rx
a potent mix for the electorate to consider.

Pirate...
...Please. The proper term is "Scots-Irish".

"Scotch" is an alcoholic drink.

Appalachian voters
"but their pocketbooks have been emptied, and it happened on the Republicans’ watch."

What an asinine statement! The appalachians were a fiercely independent and proud group. They made homes out of wilderness with little more than hard work and a shrewd intelligence. Their troubles began when coal was discovered and unscrupulous men bought up the rights to mine for coal on their land and ended up either owning the land or rendering it unfit for farming or anything else,which led to the virtual enslavement of the appalachians. They either mined coal on the company's terms or they left Appalachia.

Then comes Lyndon Johnson (democrat by the way) with his wonderful government freebies and destroys all remaining traces of pride.

The most powerful tool of the democrats is Revisionist History.

How do they vote this time?
There is a constituency which was accustomed to voting Democratic in the '90s but switched to GWB for 2 election cycles. Some of them may, upon reflection, consider that they made a big mistake, narrowly turning elections that negatively affected not only them, but their country and the world.


Appalachian Voter
Well, That's me in a nut shell...

Descended from both William Wallace and Daniel Boone,my family's fought in every war this nations seen including the Revolution and Civil War.

That arrogant,snake oil salesman,liar, Obamination won't be getting my vote nor my families.
(Never went for the Billary BS. either.)

We're
PRO AMERICA, PRO GUN AND PRO FAMILY...

John McCaine isn't my first choice either...UGH, this year is horrible.

Which ever POTUS it is, IMHO, we're screwed, but, maybe we can get the House and/or Senate back and put them in a stalemate..
If McCaine gets in hopefully we'll get more traditional judges in the SCOTUS.
That's about the best we can hope for.

Edna,
in North Carolina



try to see this absent a political bias
Anyone trying to define this bloc of voters in terms of his own political biases and orientation is only fooling himself.

I don't know how this bloc will vote in November.

I think they are hurting economically, and it is not a stretch to speculate they may blame the Republicans for that. We've had a GOP president for almost eight years, and a GOP congress for much of that time. So it is more than reasonable to believe these people will hold that party accountable for their cost of living increases, especially on energy and food.

But they do love their guns and America(as I do), plus, they are religious. The remarks by Obama about Americans in times of economic distress clinging to guns and religion, was probably offensive to many of these folks.

It smacked of elitism and arrogance.

I suspect McCain will do pretty well with this crowd, but the poor economy will peel away a significant number of these folks to Obama.

Scotch Irish werer not deported
The Scots lowlanders were offerred land in Ulster after the English had defeated the large Irish Catholic landowners in Ulster. They migrated to Ulster because they correctly saw a chance to get a better deal in life. Ultimately the English underlying ownership of the land in Ulster created a less than satisfactory situation and the now Scots-Irish began a mass migration again. This time to the frontier regions of America. No one disarmed any Scots in Scotland or Ulster or America without a fight to the death, so while I agree with your Second Amendment sentiments, your facts are not factual.

Jerabaub good synopsis.
You're completely right we're hurting financially but the Senate and House are to blame not the President so much.
He's got a war to fight. He's learned the power of the pen(veto's)finally.

Congress keep sneaking in all these bills over loaded with their own states interests, hidden deep in pages 1,458 in small print ie...the money to build a Woodstock Museum (Billery's finest hour)
They've been trying to take away our choices in medicine, education, language, and give them to the ILLEGALS running across our border in record numbers.
The "politically correct" bull pucky" is killing America!

Obamination's statements about being bitter, and every kid has to learn Spanish crapola.

It's about Mexicans getting welfare, higher taxes, gun laws,compulsionary school, and vaccines. The list goes on for pages.

It's true that government uses power. Ben Franklin set up the postal service in part to deliver his Pennsylvania Gazette newspaper.But there are limits!

There comes a time though, and our brilliant Founding Fathers foresaw this, when Government goes too far and takes for granted the peoples silence for acceptance...
Well, I think the Appalachian voters have just about had it.
I know I have. Voices (translate to votes) will surprise people if not this election but soon.

If Obamination get in he'll be easier to get rid of than McCaine after 4 years.
In 2012, after our country is deflated in moral and spirit from these turkeys it'll rise up and act. I have faith in it.

The Do Nothings/Know Nothings
You guys in the Congress and the media should climb down off your DC and NY high horses every once and awhile and really talk to people in this region when it ISN'T election time. You know, every once in awhile some Presidential candidate will blow in and out of Memphis or Nashville looking for some money and support and the Barone clones will pour over the eight years ago census data and try to analyze who we are but you guys don't have a clue...and we know it. You think we don't know that do-nothing Senator Obama has socialist tendencies and do-nothing right Senator McCain is talking the talk but can't be trusted to walk the walk? We're fed up with the whole lot of you: DC and NY media and Congress. In case you haven't noticed our 2 presidential candidates are members of the 14 percent approval-rated Congress and right now, as far as I'm concerned Used Car and Snake Oil Salesmen are held in higher esteem than the NY and DC media. Good thing pollsters don't survey "approval of the media."

Laura Cap
You go girl...I'm with you 100%

Gore thought
he had West Virginia in the bag in 2000 because he and Bubba had carried it in the previous two cycles. But the folks had grown tired of the condescending lies from those two. They had figured out for themselves what Gore's stance was on coal and gun ownership. He was toast. Irrespective of all the hullabaloo about Florida, West Virginia's five electoral votes is what put GWB in the White House.

People from Appalachia and the South
provide much of the cannon fodder for the Yankee government's overseas adventures. Wait until they start saying "Hell No! I won't go!" as so many of the "elite" already do...

Gore is a 4 letter word
Al Gore is useless and just a fear mongering fool! He's a 4 letter word I'm too polite to say.Hypocrite is most polite
I cringe at the thought of him getting the Nobel Peace prize (well, they haven't had that one right in decades)I went out to dinner with some blinded Gore idiots I know they day he got it and left early cause they wouldn't shut up. He's in league with PETA, the Humane Society and tree-huggers from ELF and Greenpeace.
He rates up there with the UN (corrupt, and UN ethical)Whichever candidate said they'd be happy to see it fall in the river (Huckabee I think)Had that one right.
If I can be so shallow as to say get your ugly mug off my front page I'd be a happier American. Oh yeah, the 1st Amendment gave me that right...Get the devil off my front page and go bury yourself in the bogs Al Gore.


I'm Scots-Irish thru and thru . . .
. . . and for the past three years, have been exercising my independent thought in support of the Constitution Party, and now support their presidential nominee, Chuck Baldwin.

I refuse to be led over the cliff by the liberal Obama or the liberal McCain. In good conscience, I haven't supported Republicans for three years due to their un-Constitutional manipulations, and as a Christian, could NEVER support a Democrat and their non-Christian platform (Luke 11:23).

It's obviously time for a new Reformation. Vote for Chuck Baldwin (www.baldwin2008.com) and the Constitution Party for a truly fresh new perspective (www.constitutionparty.com).

Edna
Appreciate your comments.

Obama has made some very foolish comments.

And Congress does have alot to answer for.

BUT, I am not nearly as forgiving of Bush as you seem to be.

And stumbling upon a policy of a temporarily effective surge strategy, after floundering and failing for four years, is not necessarily a glowing recommendation, especially when we sacrifice so much, and spend so much, on the aftermath of removing a dictator that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11, and in fact was considered an infidel by Bin Laden.

In my modest opinion, neither Congress nor the President have served our Republic well.

I suspect that
the Appalachian vote will depend heavily on the status of the war at election time. Being steeped in a patriotic/warrior culture, they like the idea of "winning." I put "winning" in quotes because I don't want to start a tiresome debate on the definition of the word. Let's just say that the presently encouraging situation gets even better by election day, and Obama keeps chanting, "Pull the troops out." Draw your own conclusions on how the vote would go.

michigander
I think Obama will have to change his position from pulling our troops from Iraq regardless of circumstances, to one nearer "as conditions on the ground warrant".

He may already have amended his position on this.

McCain probably has a slightly stronger hand to play on Iraq, for his position is our commanders will determine when our troops will leave...which probably will be what Obama will adopt(if he hasn't already).

But, to the extent Americans pay attention to the news, when you have Al Maliki himself suggesting Obama's timeframe of sixteen months for American troop withdrawal as "realistic", I ain't exactly sure the Iraqis are not indirectly endorsing Obama, and repudiating Bush(who after all was asserting there must be no timeline).

Iraqis did back off saying they endorsed Obama.

But their comments sure as hell were not a put-down of Obama, for sure.

I suspect some troops will begin to come home before the election...and the decline in violence will be one reason why. Plus, I think Bush will do this in order to give McCain some wiggle-room in calling for more troop withdrawals, to take that issue away from Obama.

Should be interesting.

Democrats CONTROL Congress!!!!
One of the greatest truths of our Federal government that excapes the people is that the CONGRESS has much more control and effect upon the national economy than the President, period!
The President makes suggestions to the Congress on spending, but Congress decides the national budget.
Democrats have had control of both houses of Congress since 2006, and had they been more focused upon the needs of the American people than their vendetta against Geo Bush and his administration, we would not be where we are today with energy prices and ergo economically because the great damage was done to the economy by eneergy prices; it had weathered all else and thrived...heck, technically it is still hanging on!
The last two years of every Presidency is tagged "lame duck" because Congress feels ever so much more willing to buck him; well, the Democrats are to blame because they could have been doing positive things these last two years, but they decided to do NOTHING and leave it to the electorate to blame Bush!
The most effective years I've seen in Federal government during my life were those in which a Conservative controlled Congress negotiated with a centrist Democrat in the Whitehouse during the Clinton years.

Reply to railfancwb
Your statement about the "yankee government" is hilarious. It denotes that people "north" of you enjoy the BS that's going on in Washington. As a "yankee", I can assure you that many people here are fed up as much as you are, and that will be reflected in the Nov. election when Nobama loses.

These folks in the Appalachia region will vote overwhelmingly for McCain, even though they have to hold their noses. I sense however, that many of them are sick of both parties. Yes, I think the Hatfields and McCoy's will be on the same page this year and cost NObama the election, just as they cost Kerry in 2004. One thing for sure about people here in "yankee" land, we can tell a stinkin varmint a mile away, just as your kin can!

Tired of the price
of being lied to from so many quarters it's really very difficult to know where our votes should go. I would happily move to a third party if I didn't already believe that would only throw it to Obamination. The man scares even more than Hillary did, and we all need to know they both studied under the same father of Socialism. He doesn't offer a single thing I want from a President and, unfortunately, McCain offers little more. Tough choice nothing or little more, but that's what we have. I do believe it will only be 4 years in any case. Four years we need to spend on our knees to pray for a future worthy of our kids and grandkids. So much work, so few worker bees. We need to work for what WE want, not what DC wants. Let's pick who needs to be voted out. Let's get rid of the race whores - like Jackson and Sharpton. We need to wake up. Don't let them use the color of our skin to hate each other. I believe God loves each of us and America, too!

charlie
Democrats can rightly be blamed for lots of things.

But it is the Executive(the President)that submits budget requests to Congress to fund the government, from foodstamp programs to Dept of Defense.

The Executive department decides how much funding it wants for the myriad of departments..and congress accedes in, changes, or cancels, those funding requests.

GOP has controlled Congress for six of the eight years Bush has been president.

So I think it a bit unfair to blame all the problems besetting our Beloved Republic on those nasty Democrats.

I blame Congress(both Democrats and Republicans), and I blame G.W. Bush.

Instead of maniacal obsession on Iraq(which had nothing to do with who attacked us on 9/11), Bush could have made a crusade on the issue of energy, its availability, and costs.

I know environmental extremists control the Democrat Party, but for 7 of Bush's 8 yrs in office, he did not even think it important enough to rescind his dad's prohibition on drilling on our continental shelf.

Where were his priorities?

ex-Wyomingite
I agree on Pelosi. She is in the clutches of environmental fanatics. She likes it that way.

On the war, I think both candidates will come to about the same conclusion...which is that troop reductions can begin(I won't say "withdrawal" because some neocons may go into shock over such a concept), contingent on conditions on the ground.

Given that the duly elected leader of the nation we liberted from oppression wants us to seriously consider a timeline for(gasp)withdrawal, I don't think the descendents of William Wallace are going to object, one way or the other.

After all, our Commander in Chief constantly invokes the goal of a "free and democratic" Iraq making its own decisions.

Well, its leader says he wants a definitive timeline for our withdrawal

He wants our money, but not our security arrangements.

Now, who woulda thunk that? Cough.

Politicians
I believe JFK was the first and last senator elected President. He had the same charisma (if that is what it is),but not much substance. He had no record to run on,just like our 'esteemed'messiah.

Now,JFK may have become a good president had he lived. He made some blunders and he made some good decisions. All was not Camelot,no matter what the fawning liberals say.

The problem with electing sitting senators is they usually have a history. If the congress is popular,well and good. If they are ,as they are today,down in single digits,it may not be well and good.


Sick of the bashing in NC
Jerabaub,
I'm not quite as forgiving to Bush as you think. I do believe that he floundered and messed up in some things.

I however place a most of blame on Congress both this current one and the one before.
They're elected to represent us Americans. We wanted justice after 3,000 humans died and didn't want it to happen again (still don't).

President Bush's hands were tied when he wasn't given full support after 9/11.
Congress wasn't fully cooperative they didn't want to get blood on their hands.
NO president wants to be a war time president but when congress voted to ok this action by a (2/3 majority as in the US Constitution) they then should have fully committed to it. They weren't and floundered greatly.(still are)

Pelosi (another useless POS in my book) wants nothing more than to bash the POTUS to get everyone off their ratings and apathetic congressional performance.
Like I said before we're screwed this election the best we can hope for is getting congress in a stalemate and get a real American hard core Constitutionalist in 2012.
Media is just gang-banging the warped views the libs want us to believe..I for one have their number and refuse be politically correct or brainwashed.

Our brave men and women have paid yes. The tree of liberty needs to be watered by the blood of patriots to advance freedom.
Saddam is gone,Iraqi's are voting and slowly taking charge of their country.
Yes, the economy is being brutal to floks like me but I thank my lucky stars and thank god daily that I am an American and am free.
America is still

Dear Friends, There is Hope afterall.
I find myself in complete agreement with ex-Wyomingite's 10:09 posting to E.D.(at least to the extent ex-Wyomingite is correct in his assessment of the position of the Constitution party).

And friends, I now must leave you(don't all start clapping at once).

Time to watch some Sunday news programs, especially McLaughlin Group which begins in a half hour.


Rowly, 2 U.S. Senators went direct...
....from the Senate to the Presidency, this from the Senate site:

"While 15 of the nation's 41 presidents served in the Senate at some point in their public careers, only two—Warren Harding and John F. Kennedy—won their presidential races as incumbent senators."

wobbiehal scribbles:
Subject: Virginia Patriot Vote for Barr he will
be rejected by 99 percent of the American people!

As you are you American Hating lib shill. I just need to figure out who is more of a commie, you or HaL Doofus, oh wait a tic, he is you, you are him, it is you commie! Wobbie is the fat arse seat buffer! LHAO
LOL

If you want to support people who ARE proud of their country:
http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseacti on=home.main&tp_preview=true&x=7959345
http://www.patriotsrevolt.com/

If you want to support people who are NOT proud of their country:
http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/688061/3111928/

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

Laura Cap
Did not know if you have seen this, but they are now down to 9% and sinking.
Which is on track with my approval rating with both POTUS candidates!

http://www.taxpayer.net/search_by_category.php?action=view &proj_id=1094&category=Wastebasket&type=Project

If you want to support people who ARE proud of their country:
http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseacti on=home.main&tp_preview=true&x=7959345
http://www.patriotsrevolt.com/

If you want to support people who are NOT proud of their country:
http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/688061/3111928/

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

elitists vs everyone else
at what point did elitists ever show anything but disdain for the great unwashed of this country'

The elitists always assume they have not only the superior levels of education but are better suited by everything to be able to make choices for all and that their prescriptions of their being in charger to make decisions for everyone else should never be questioned.

But in b hussein we have something that goes beyond mere elitism. We have an ego that exceeds if that of the self-centered bubba.

It seems the only thing that has any meaning in b hussein's life is b hussein. Everyone else is secondary to his ambition and his goal of making everything about him.

I guess the dims will see many more be thrown under the b hussein bus if it furthers his career of being him.

The media has bought into the idea he is the coming messiah sent to save us from ourselves. The question remains can we save ourselves from the ego, the attitude and the lack of substance of b hussein

WHY THEY CAME
They came to this country searching for FREEDOM from GOVERNENT CONTROL.

jerabaub, you wrote...
"I think Obama will have to change his position from pulling our troops from Iraq regardless of circumstances, to one nearer "as conditions on the ground warrant."

Probably. But don't you think it will be seen for what it is. McCain will have him wearing a "flip-flopper" sign around his neck like an albatross.

By the way,
I believe Maliki's recent utterings are largely for home consumption. I have no verifiable source (for obvious reasons), but Maliki's "back channels" are reportedly telling the White House that there will be no big push for a premature & wholesale evacuation of US forces.

I live here
My neighbors are EXACTLY what this article describes. We are those " Americans who cling to their religion and guns with antipathy for those who are not like us." Those not like us are the democrats and Obama.

They have done everything they can to take religion out of the public view and religate us to some back water bunch of Christian kooks who actually believe in GOD. They have done everything thay can to completely nullify the Second Amendment and but for one vote on the Supreme Court in the Heller decision, WOULD HAVE GLEEFULLY DONE SO. They have said we are "in fly over country" and obvious hicks who are "not with it" as far as the "new World order" of things stand. And they are right about that.

We are also NOT WITH the democrats. They DO NOT represent our values. We are not like the blacks and Hispanics. We can not be bought off with promises of government welfare. We have and will continue to take care of ourselves and we don't need or want the government in our mountains or our lives and we will vote, but it will NOT be for the democrats. They are our and our nation's mortal enemies.

I Was Born In New York City
but I have lived in the San Francisco Bay Area all my adult life. Yet, the things people here are saying resonates with me. I guess it's because I lived in Ohio from the ages of 9-18, and much of the values of that state have rubbed off on me, though it took me many years to realize it.

When I was younger I took pride in being liberal and thinking government should solve our problems. As I've gotten older, I realize I have nothing in common with liberal ideologies. While I probably don't look anything like most of you, I am one of you. I am an American who is proud to be so.

So it scares me when I read about people like me who love America as I do who are so ambivalent about Obama winning the Presidency. For a true patriot like myself, nothing is scarier. I know folks don't like John McCain but at least it's obvious he loves this country, no matter what his other shortcomings may be. It's just as obvious to me that Obama feels a lot of disdain for us and for America, the greatest country God gave to man.

I am pissed about the whole immigration thing as well, living in an area overrun by illegals. Yet I think we can hold McCain's feet to the fire about this. With Obama, not so much. Further, he will turn this great nation into an appeasing socialist state. I must do everything in my power to make sure that doesn't happen. I hope some of you will join with me.

audax
I was not sure and that is why I only said 'I believe JFK was',instead of saying 'he was.'I knew there had not been many.Thanks.

What do the democrats not understand?
We backwards Appalachian types regard ourselves as the ultimate decision makers regarding our personal welfare. We take personal responsibility for our food, water, shelter and safety. We don't want, and will not tollerate the dam government getting involved in any of that because it is none of the governments business. We have always done it with or without the governments permission and we are not asking for permission to continue to do that. We are simply going to continue to do it and if the government gets in the way, then we'll deal with it the same way we have always delt with governments who have tried to run our lives. Many of us will die doing that, but after all, we are just lowly Scotts, so who cares? Most of us don't care and think it's a good way to die since we are surely going to die anyway.

THAT is what sets us apart from the eletes and urban dwellers who have forgotten what freedom taking personal responsiibilty for your life and belief in a supreme God can bring. We accept the fact of our death. We don't have all that much to live for anyway. We don't have any money, power, or position. I don't know anybody around here that wants any of that. All we want is to be left the *ell alone and for the dam government to stay out of the way.

We'll fight in their wars and pay most of their taxes, but we'll also fight them in our mountains if necessary. Unfortunately, it appears more and more as if we are going to have to do that. If it is destined to happen, then so be it. It sure as *ell won't be the first time we've had to do it and most likely won't be the last. Such is the destiny of a Appalachian Scott. It must be something in the water up here in these mountains or the clean fresh air we breathe. We see the BS coming from Washington very clealy. We've seen it all before and we are buying NONE of it.

Jim Webb's book
Zito's column quotes Jim Webb but doesn't mention the book where he wrote these ideas. It is Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America. I have a review of it here: http://www.logicmazes.com/reviews.html#born

By the way, the comment writers here who want you to say Scots-Irish instead of Scotch-Irish are the same ninnies who want you to say African Americans instead of blacks.

mcains choice
of vp will be crtical for this region. if he chooses an elitest like romney , he will lose this area! i've been talking with my family, we're spread from north carolina, west to texas and new mexico .none of them like romney doesn't mean that they'll vote for obama, lot's of them and their neighbors just won't vote . we feel that we'll keep on going no matter whose president.

At last some respect
For oh so long the political parties of this country ignored the Appalachian are because lets be honest certain areas always voted the same way every time. That is no longer the case as we see how many of the states that were once safely in one parties column in some cases are now safely in the other parties control. Many blue color workers in this area of America will be the deciding voters for the next president. People are no longer blindly following the party line of the last 50 years .Things are becoming more important to them such as morals and what direction this country will go. So I for one am happy to see this portion of the country not being taken for granted by ether party this election

Touche' Black prince
What you said in your 2 posts are how most of us freedom loving "fly-over" hicks want

Right On !
Reinforcing what Ken(VA) stated:
Good on the "Hatfields" and "McCoys". By being loyal to God and country, and not to a particular party, they will reach a status that every voter desires : To not be pigeonholed as left/right/up/down. Therefore neither party can take their vote for granted and will have to
work harder for it.

Black Prince
That was a good post. Having said that, not all urban dwellers are libs, we take care of our self’s and our own and also do not need government interference to live our lives.
Of course I and mine are descendants of Appalachian peoples, so maybe that’s just where the independence comes from.
P.S. Don’t worry about wobbie (ranger29.) He has been mad all his life because he has never had the b@lls to be independent.

If you want to support people who ARE proud of their country:
http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index.cfm?fuseacti on=home.main&tp_preview=true&x=7959345
http://www.patriotsrevolt.com/

If you want to support people who are NOT proud of their country:
http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/688061/3111928/

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.htm l
Free Ramos and Compean

We
are blessed with a daughter in law from the mts
of KY and all I can say it "yep" she and her family personify that spirit we are talking about.
I always refer to myself as being English, because that's where my grandparents (both sides) and mother were born, however I learned that her grandfather was Ulster born so I guess
I've got that blood running in my veins too. There's Welsh on my Dad's side. I grew up
in S. Mass., and believe me, we were drilled on
the American Revolution by the old Yankee teachers I had. Most of my neighbors as well as teachers descended from the early settlers,
mine came over on later boats. But I have the
same inborn disdain for the elites and government interference as several posters.
And reading the posts of Cynthia, Black Prince, Laura Cap and Edna (tell us how you really feel Edna),and many other conservative posters, no matter how we all got here the bottom line is, WE ARE AMERICANS made of the stuff that
founded this land and created the greatest
document (outside the Bible) ever, the Constitution. The libs/leftists are nothing but ingrates, always bashing this country and it's warriors. Yes, the U.S. isn't heaven on earth,
no place inhabited by man could ever be, but
we are pretty close given the form of government
God gave us. We have forgotten Him and the elites disdain Him and now we are paying the price.

Tea Party ...thank you but....
I leave the sugar coating to the politicians

Rowly....Thanks..
...was just observing...didn't know myself so looked it up. I thought there were more than two, so it surprised me.

Robert
Ranger29
Location: TX

Reply # 6
Date: Jul 20, 2008 - 3:05 PM EST Black Prince the problem for folks
like you is that most Americans want a better life then barely surviving.

That has been the American dream

Robert

Dear Robert,

We are doing far more than simply surviving and it's difficult to comprehend to use your words " a better life" than what we have. It's why we live here in these mountains--for the good life. No crime. We can walk anywhere at night with no fear of being mugged. The whipowills are non-violent. If we have a flat tire there will be three people stop to help us and none will try to rob or carjack us.

I have to lock my car at church on Sunday during the summer because if I don't, somebody, or more likely several somebody’s, will fill it up with fresh from the garden tomatoes, squash, peas, beans, okra, corn, cucumbers, onions, etc. Since I already have more of that that I can use from my own garden, I lock the car.

Children can play here without fear of being kidnapped. There are no strangers here because if we see one, we'll come right up to him and ask what he is doing here and he had better dam well have a good reason to be here or he'll wish to god that he did have one. The sheriff and the judge are on OUR SIDE. The sheriff won't arrest us for killing some knucklehead that needed killing. He'll put it down as a suicide because if you mess with people up here, you are committing suicide. The judge will second that. Life is good here.

Part of the problem we see is people like you who are never satisfied and always want MORE. Life is not about getting more Robert. It’s a pity that you, and many others like you, don’t understand that.


Robert patr two
The Anerican dream is about family, friends, God, country, motherhood, apple pie and coffee Robert. It's about living a good and productive life. It's about being a good friend. It's about helping young people understand values in life so they can live a good and decent life too. It's about sitting with them on the front porch with a big pitcher of iced tea and showing them how to play Wildwood Flowers or Amazing Grace on the guitar, or banjo, or fiddle.

For us, it isn't about big houses, yachts, vacations to the Bamaha islands, a trip to Disney Land or how much stock is in your investment portfolio. My Timex keeps as good time as a gold Rolex. I have no need for a gold watch to make a statement about who I am because everybody around me already knows who I am and I certainly do. They know it if I'm hot and dirty from honest work, and they know it at church on Sunday morning dressed in my Sunday best. I don't owe anybody anything except the light bill that comes each month. I have all a man needs to live comfortable and well.

I have a life Robert; not a lifestyle. Get a life and you'll understand the difference. It's a shame more Americans don't know and appreciate the difference any more.

Scots-Irish
Why did many Scots-Irish leave Ulster for America? They were diligent and industrious in working the land they rented. When the time came for the leases to be renewed, the landlords' agents looked at the improvements (paid for by the tenants) and determined that the rent should be increased. In other words, "You will pay a higher rent because you have put so much into the property." It certainly was a less than satisfactory situation, as Nickel commented this morning (7:18). Rather put up with this extortion, they left.

Robert-Abbott (2:07 pm): I have Scots-Irish ancestors, and I learned sixty or so years ago (long before the PC foolishness of saying "African-Americans" arose) that Scotch is whiskey, and the people are Scots. Even the Scots in Great Britain have preferred to be called "Scots."

I also am a native American, because I was born in this country, of English, Scots, and Welsh ancestry. None of my ancestors were there, waiting for my British ancestors to arrive.

Yo Jerubub
Bush's faults are largely for not using the bully pulpit to explain why Iraq needed addressing after it had been ignored by his father and Clinton. He was left to clean up the mess. Forget it's direct implication in the 9-11 attacks. Stopping with Afghanistan, would have been like taking out one of many cancerous tumors in a patient and ignoring the rest, when they are just as life threatening. To continue the cancer analogy, leaving Iraq to stand would be like getting a group of doctors together to diagnose the patient, yet despite the unanimous agreement, decide to ignore the other tumors. Besides, we are there and on the verge of turning the country to a U.S. friendly govt.

Proud Scrappers
Our ancestors came here because they valued freedom above all; they refused to live under tyrany. It's in our nature, our genes, to fight when our back is up against the wall. Can you imagine the small group of assorted civilians putting up a fight against the British? The Boston Tea Party? These brave people are OUR ancestors; I believe we should value and preserve our freedoms they fought so valiantly to give us. We are a nation of scrappers, especially in Appalachia and the South, and I doubt we will hand America to Obama to reshape into something new & improved, something socialist. We'd rather have McCain beside us in a foxhole, and we could trust him to watch our back. Obama, not hardly.


Instead of believing a liar
As one shows himself to be, read for yourself what the platform of the Constitution Party is.
If this is not Scots-Irish, nothing is.


http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

The Constitution of these United States provides that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." The Constitution Party supports the original intent of this language. Therefore, the Constitution Party calls on all those who love liberty and value their inherent rights to join with us in the pursuit of these goals and in the restoration of these founding principles.

The U.S. Constitution established a Republic rooted in Biblical law, administered by representatives who are Constitutionally elected by the citizens. In such a Republic all Life, Liberty and Property are protected because law rules.

Ex
"Vote for a bunch of cranks calling themselves the "Constitution Party" who apparently believe the United States Constitution gives them the right to stick their heads up the vaginas of America's women and their noses under the covers of America's beds?" =quote

I don't think that quite represents the Constitution party. But even if it did I will vote for Chuck because he believes in the Constitution. Unlike McCain this man has principles, and has yet to steal from the American people.

I can't deal with any more back stabing from one who has already wiped his patoot with our Constitution.

Nor will I go with a liberal fascist. Thats what this hillbilly thinks!

138PM
Yep, Mr. Cherokee,
It seems you are a hillbilly too. What HE said!

Correction
Mr.Prince, not Mr.Cherokee

Kudos to Zito
This is one of the most honest Column I have seen in a long time on Townhall. Honest and unbiased it presents the challenges for both candidates. Just my opinion, but I think in this election these people are going to vite their pocket books and support Obama.

Why didn't they say that?
>The U.S. Constitution established a Republic rooted in Biblical law<

Point me the place in the Constitution where it states:

This document is rooted in Biblical law.

Why did they purposely omit any mention of the Bible, or Christianity or any other religion as the basis for their document? Could it be the memory of centuries of religious wars in Europe were still fresh and, in their wisdom, they reaslized a new nation, rooted in secularism as law, would better provide life, liberty and property for all citizens?

Wimp ,not as our president
Is this how we want our POTUS to Talk not likely...What a wimp

JERUSALEM – The 9-11 attacks were carried out because of a lack of "empathy" for others' suffering on the part of al-Qaida, whose terrorist ideology "grows out of a climate of poverty and ignorance, helplessness and despair," Sen. Barack Obama explained in largely unreported comments eight days after the mega-terror attacks that rocked the nation.

Obama went on to imply the September 11th attacks were in part a result of U.S. policy, lecturing the American military to minimize civilian casualties in the Middle East and urging action opposing "bigotry or discrimination directed against neighbors and friends of Middle-Eastern descent."

Article found here:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 70119

The real problems
They lie in the ones making the major policy of the day. Senate and congress. Wake up people!

Ralph, step away slowly from the koolaid
I can't believe you think the homebase of Al Qaida, where it set up camps and recruited radicals used on the 9/11 attack, was a mere tumor, implying, I guess, that Saddam was equally at fault for 9/11 as Bin Laden.

Ralph, for your own sake, step slowly away from the neocon koolaid.

WRONG JMO51
JMO51
Location: NY

Reply # 4
Date: Jul 20, 2008 - 11:20 PM EST Subject: Kudos to Zito
This is one of the most honest Column I have seen in a long time on Townhall. Honest and unbiased it presents the challenges for both candidates. Just my opinion, but I think in this election these people are going to vite their pocket books and support Obama.
________

WRONG!!! It's you New Yorkers who always make concessions and vote your pocket books. You haven't been reading these comments. We have a LIFE BEYOND our pocket books. WE don't drive qute little black Beemers and we DON'T CARE about them. We Appalachian types are not GOING TO VOTE Obama.

It's amazing how many people have forgotten what it feels like to have cojones. We have them so big we have trouble walking and we don't need Obama or anybody else messing with our pocket books. All he'll do is make them lighter anyway by raising taxes as he has promised to do.

Who the *ell do you think you are talking to here? We are not a bunch of in-bred urban types who have long since forgoten what it is like to be free and we are not buying the crap that others run to the trough to feed on. We are a self-sufficient people who have taken care of ourselves for centuries without the government and we will CONTINUE to be. We live a LOT better than those poor democrats all crowded together in "GOVERMENT HOUSING" and our lives are a LOT better all the way around.

Who you vote for is your business but you can count on all of us Appalachians to cancel your vote when you vote Omaba like we know you are going to. We'll meet you on the baracades and you might want to remember that we are all experienced hunters, shooters and that we are armed to the teeth.

Right on Black Prince, GA
I am from Iowa and my grandparents came from the Scot/Irish decendents and we are proud of our heritage also.

The Obama fad will fade into space and McCain will do much better and win this fall. Our Constitution is more important then Obama wants to think. He wants to change everything about this Nation and bring it into the old world that our people ran away from and I pray the people of the Nation does not let this happen.

God bless you and yours.

Joy of Iowa

CA Has too much influence on Politics
California,NY, DC, Mass, Chicago.... etc.. and the elite, liberal, atheist San Francisco/Chicaqo/DC types are overly represented in Congress and they think us in hicks-ville USA aren't watching...WRONG
It's time to reevaluate the electorial college and dismantle it and let every Americans vote count.
Policies like this aren't escaping unnoticed..

SB 777 "the gay indoctrination bill" hasn't escaped our radar in it's quest to make saying mom and dad hate speech...

The anti-homeschool judgment by your courts (currently being re-examined) hasn't flown so low that it was undetected.We can teach our kids morals and values and do.

The gay marriage and all it's implications aren't just blips ignored. People in Mass as well better take note.

As Black Prince so well expresses we aren't going to lay down our arms and be bullied.

My grandad told me never tick off a momma bear 'cause you'll not survive to tell the tale.

Well, THIS MOMMA BEAR IS TICKED OFF! I'm going to fight like the great grizzly for my way of life and keep government from trying to socialize, demoralize, and indoctrinate me.

Edna

PANCHO
YOU WROTE: "Could it be the memory of centuries of religious wars in Europe were still fresh and, in their wisdom, they reaslized a new nation, rooted in secularism as law, would better provide life, liberty and property for all citizens?"

The answer is no! Do just a little research instead of regurgitating leftist mythology.
Read the Federalist Papers about the proper role of the church and government.

Two quotes from supposed "Deists":

"We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build
the house, they labour in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also
believe that, without his concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political
building no better than the builders of Babel; we shall be divided by our
little, partial local interests; our projects will be confounded; and we
shall become a reproach and a byword to future ages. And what is worse,
mankind may hereafter, from this unfortunate instance, despair of
establishing government by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war, or
conquest.
I therefore beg to move that, henceforth, prayers imploring the assistance
of Heaven and its blessing on our deliberation be held in this assembly
every morning before we proceed to business."
-Ben Franklin at the Constitutional Convention

On July 4, 1821, President Adams said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: "It connected in one indissoluble
bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." Adams wrote the original Massachussetts Consitution, a model for the Federal one.




WOW!!! -- Black Prince --
Excellent, excellent, EXCELLENT posts! -- Gave me goosebumps and brought tears to my eyes! BRAVO!!!!!!!

Patriotic --
Thank you for the reminder of the intentions of our founding fathers -- unfortunately, our children have been deprived of these teachings, by the "political correctness" instructors (indoctrinators) and administrators who have infiltrated our public school systems and universities. We, as parents, have to assume reponsibility to complete the education of our children.

Black Prince
You're a man after my own heart, there, hero.

Good to know there are still men like you left in the good old U. S. of A.

Hoorah!

LadyX and patriotic
Haven't noticed y'all before, but I like what y'all got to say.

It's good to have more solid conservatives posting here on TH.

Good to see y'all here!

AMEN! LADY X
And Pancho and many others are prime examples of brainwashing historical revisionism run amuck in our schools.

Reply to Younger
I just saw Jim Webb on Charlie Rose and he said Scotch-Irish. So even he can't pronounce Scots-Irish.
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