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Sunday, January 20, 2008
Salena Zito :: Townhall.com Columnist
Michigan, Florida Bitter Over Delegate Losses
by Salena Zito
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


It's one more quirk in a presidential election year that has begun with many of them: Votes cast for Democratic candidates in Michigan -- and in Florida's upcoming primary -- will not count.

And that's causing bitterness and blame, say political analysts and party faithful.

"The seeds of a massive fight have been planted," said Larry Sabato, political science professor at the University of Virginia, who thinks, in the end, two large swing states won't be underrepresented at the Aug. 25-28 Democratic National Convention in Denver.

"One way or the other, delegates will be seated," he said in an interview this week. Nevertheless, "this could cause great controversy if the Clinton-Obama race is still close."

New York Sen. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in the Nevada caucus, but Illinois Sen. Barack Obama won the national convention delegate count, 13-12. Former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina finished a distant third.

The Democratic National Committee sanctioned Michigan and Florida by stripping them of their delegates when the states ignored committee rules and moved their primaries ahead of the committee-approved Feb. 5 "Super-Duper Tuesday." Twenty-four states will hold primaries and caucuses on that date.

The Republican National Committee has been less aggressive about punishing states that are holding contests outside the window. The RNC executive committee voted in the fall to withhold half the delegates for those states that went before Feb. 5, including New Hampshire, Florida, South Carolina, Michigan and Wyoming.

Michigan, which held its primary Jan. 15, would have sent 174 delegates to the convention. Florida, whose voters go to the polls Jan. 29, would have sent 210.

"We thought it was important to take a stand," said Mark Brewer, Michigan State Democratic Party chairman. "We did this on principle, and the principle is that it is unfair that small, unrepresentative states like Iowa and New Hampshire always get to go first. That is why we moved up."

But, he acknowledged, "Plenty of people complained to me that they felt disenfranchised."

Sabato concedes the two states' Democratic voters are disenfranchised, "but only temporarily -- and for a good cause."

Officials in those states indeed stood up "for the rights of larger states to have proportionate influence in the selection of presidential nominees," he said.

Yet, he understands the Democratic National Committee's position. "Why bother to have rules if you don't enforce them?"

In Florida's Alachua County, people aren't as forgiving about the stripped votes, said county Democratic Party Chairman Jon Reiskind. Where they place blame might surprise some.

"A lot of people are mad at the DNC, but most people blame the Republicans for the mess we are in," Reiskind said.

He argues that Republicans were up to some "suspicious activities" when Florida's Republican-dominated legislature voted to move up the primary and GOP Gov. Charlie Crist signed off on it.

"We are very angry at the Republican legislature. Who pays the price for our vote not counting? Not the Republicans," Reiskind said.

Reiskind describes Alachua County as "a blue county in a sea of red." Alachua's Democrats out-register Republicans by nearly 30,000 voters, according to the county's supervisor of elections. The county -- which has 128,687 registered voters, 66,193 of them Democrats and 36,950, Republicans -- went Democrat for Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004.

Another reason for the anger: Florida's ballot on Jan. 29 includes a decision on property taxes, Reiskind said. The constitutional amendment, known as Amendment 1, offers property tax relief through state-mandated cuts by local governments. It is generally favored by Republicans, officials with both parties said.

With fewer Democrats voting, the property tax amendment could have a better chance of passing -- "an amendment that most Democrats are opposed to," Reiskind said.

Leonard Joseph, executive director of the Florida State Democratic Party, said party officials had no choice but to go along with the earlier date. Florida held its 2004 primary March 9.

"We could have done a caucus," he said, "but given the sheer size of our state, that would not have been a practical alternative."

Joseph said voters, reporters and candidates have flooded his office with calls.

"We are in a very tricky position," he said. "There is a lot of resentment from voters here directed at the candidates. They are very hurt by the fact that all of the candidates signed a pledge to not campaign here."

Michigan's situation wasn't much different, officials said. Although a Democrat-controlled legislature and Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm agreed to the early voting date, the outcome was the same -- stripped delegates. Michigan held its 2004 presidential primary Feb. 7.

The Michigan State Democratic Party urged people to vote anyway, and because Clinton was the only leading Democrat on the ballot, she won 55 percent of the vote. The other Democrat on the ballot, U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, won 3.7 percent.

But 40 percent of Democrats there voted "uncommitted," an apparent nod of support for Obama or Edwards, who took their names off Michigan's ballot to comply with the official schedule.

All of this, said political analyst Sabato, might not matter by the August convention, if a clear leader has emerged for the Democratic nomination.

"Then, this controversy will fade to nothingness," he said.

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About The Author
Salena Zito is a political analyst, reporter and columnist.
 
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Tough
You made that bed,lie in it.

Not to worry..
America can always count on the Democrat Party (not democratic in the least) to emplement their well honed "creative liberal voting" skills.. voter fraud in every form imaginable...They will more make up for their delegate "losses"...bless their hearts..

Give me a break!
It is called logical consequences for choices made. Then to have the Floridian Dems whining that it's the Republican's fault...oh, for heaven's sake, get a grip and stop with the blame game.

The Lames never pass up a chance to carp
LOL, the Democrats blame the Republicans when the DNC strips their delegates. Now there is a laugh. I’m sure that NO Dems voted FOR that primary date move. Hey with this logic I can blame Florida for us here in SC losing half our delegates. We would not have moved ours if they had not moved theirs. What the Republicans should have done is only punished the first to move and excused the rest because the first to move caused the rest to move. At any rate, since McShame and Huckleberry were the winners in SC and tool ALL the delegates I really don’t care how they split them.

And the property tax thing. This sounds something like the old California proposition 13 thing. I am sure it will pass because no voter EVER turns down a chance to reduce his taxes. The question is….are there enough property owners voting to offset the non-property owners who don’t care how high property taxes go? I would have loved to have something like that on the ballot here in our primary; especially since the Republicans and independents were the only ones voting.

Yeah, I noticed that too....
No matter what goes wrong on the Democrat's side of the isle it's always the fault of Republicans... and here I thought it was the DNC that stripped 'em of those delegates!! I guess when those churches that are letting the Dem candidates preach from the pulpit will also blame Republicans for the loss of their tax exemption too....

Oh and who's so stupid that they don't realize that renters pay more when property taxes go up? DUH!!

Typical Democratic tactic....
Ignore the rules, and then whine about "counting every vote" (even the illegal ones.)

And of course, blame the Republicans.

Nothing new here.

Standard Liberal Two-Step
1. The DNC takes your delegates away, blame the GOP.

2. Repeat as necessary.

Florida Must Speak For All Conservatives

OK, Floridians - time for some real GOP straight talk. It's up to us now, and republicans still need a conservative candidate. That man - is Mitt Romney.

Three 1st place wins in Nevada, Michigan and Wyoming. Strong 2nd place finishes in Iowa and New Hampshire. And his Blue state economic credentials are winners in November against a classless liberal field.

*John McCain cannot win Florida's conservative voters. (or the U.S.)
*Mike Huckabee cannot find enough Florida evangelicals.
*Rudy Giuliani is Tested, Ready, poof.

The latest Florida Insider Advantage Poll: Guiliani 21 - McCain 20 - Romney 20 - Huckabee 13.

There's only one candidate who is clearly favored by noted conservatives like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, Mona Charen, Kathleen Parker, Governor Jeb Bush and Pat Buchanan. Only one man.

Vote: Mitt Romney for President of the United States. We need this guy, yesterday.

Mitt
may be the best of the top 4, but i won't vote for him in the Florida primary. He is moving slowly(still faster than the other 3) to the right because he is reading the tenor of the Republican voter. I will vote for whoever is to his right to keep him moving that way. That is how Reagan got elected. Going after so-called middle votes is how the Bushies got us skrewed. I only hope IF Mitt goes right, and IF he gets elected, he is an honest politician and once bought, stays bought.

Split decisions set up GOP
Who will win Florida?

POLITICO– Needing to prove he can prevail in a conservative-dominated contest, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) came through here on Saturday. With wins now in New Hampshire and South Carolina and a second-place showing against Mitt Romney in Michigan, McCain has established himself as a top contender for the GOP nomination.

And he has also demonstrated, yet again, his resilience.

READ MORE


http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/split-decisions-se t-up-gop-fight-for-florida

Voters are reminded
again of the ineffiency of government or at least of those who want to influence government. And some think it would be just super if government ran a nation wide single payer health plan.

Stripping Delegates
As a resident of Florida and a registerded Democrat, the DNC decision to strip my vote in the primary shows me they care nothing about my vote. Therefore in the General Election I shall vote for and support, through active campaigning, the republican candidate. I knew I could never support Obama anyway. Seeing how he is a member of church, (which means he supports them) that promotes racism, pledges its allegeince to Africa instead of the United States, and supports Islam. This is one irate Democrat here.

Breaking Florida News...

Rasmussen Florida Poll: ROMNEY 25 - McCain 20 - Giuliani 19 - Huckabee who?

Governor Romney's plan for America's economic renewal catches fire in Florida!

Vote Jan. 29: Williard Mitt Romney for "positive conservative change"

Dim's
Wah, Wah, Wah, All the Dimocrats can do is blaming the other guy's. This prime example of the way they will govern the country. The type of mentality that is so pervasive in the Socialist, (Sorry) Democrate party that feels compassionate for Evil will be Evil to the companionate. That is lay the blame on those of us that are in the conservative and compassionate Republican Party. Please get over the hanging chad mentality and join the adults you moronic whiners.

Hopefully more like you will jump
hilander62, You are the part of the Democrat Parties old school and are welcome to join the party of Americans like yourself. That is the Republican Party. The great old Democratic Party that both Democrates and Republicans could once be proud of has been taken over by the Marxist that were not purged by the COUAA in the late 40's and 50's. I say bring that commitee back before these enemies within gain anymore influence and destroy more of our great American institutions.

Who's Really at Fault Here?
Of course the DNC wants to blame the GOP for its decision to strip two states of their delegates to the convention; it's not as if they can be held accountable for their own actions. Personal accountability is so un-Democratic.

But really, who is to blame here:

1. The States who chose to exercise their constitutional responsibility to determine the place and timing of elections?

2. Or the DNC, which, under Howard Dean, believes that it has the right to dictate to the States when they can hold elections?

The Democrats went on the record on Saturday with the belief that choosing their nominee is more important than choosing our president (why else would they require IDs for people wanting to caucus, but oppose them for people wanting to vote in a general election?). Now they want to both tell two states that because they didn't listen to Howard, they lose their voice at the convention, and tell those same states that they had no choice and it's the GOP's fault.

But what it all comes down to is this: The Democrats set in place a rigged primary season when they believed that Hillary was "inevitable", and now they are suffering the consequences because many of their voters do not want to elect Hillary president.

Both parties suffer
I've never voted Democratic, but the truth is, both parties suffer because of archaic electoral systems that no longer suffice to serve the American population. It's not a red/blue thing. This country needs election reform, not campaign reform -- election reform.

Why should states like Florida and Michigan -- where A LOT of people live -- risk losing delegates because they want an equal say in who gets nominated? They are tired (and I am tired) of having good candidates drop out by the time the voting process rolls around to their particular state -- simply because unrepresentative states like Iowa and New Hampshire get first crack at naming candidates.

I live in Florida, which IS an early primary state now -- and now I do not have the chance to vote for Duncan Hunter. I know he wouldn't have won, but now I no longer have the chance to cast my vote in the way I wanted. What if Fred drops out? What if, by super Tuesday, someone else drops out?

To limit 90% of the nation to one or two choices because of a handful states -- and particularly states like New Hampshire with heavy independent voters -- is absurd. The country needs a primary week, when everyone everywhere gets to cast a vote for the same slate of candidates.

We are missing the main point in this!
That both the DNC & RNC stripped delegates from the offending states should not be a surprise. Realistically speaking, why should anyone care about what date the states hold their primaries except for the elites?

As I have stated on this site many times over the past year, the elites have been manipulating the election process to assure themselves continued power, and there is no more blatant an example than this. In the states which are denied some or all delegates, the only result is to once again take away from the people their right to choose. That is who got punished!

When exactly are we the people going to stand up and resist the elites who want total control? If you care about how we are being duped and scammed, I urge you to visit my website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG. On the site I explain how the elites have been accruing more and more power and shutting out "we the people" who are the actual owners of this great nation!

These actions by the DEM/GOP elites is an abomination and travesty. Just who the hell are these elites to deny the citizens their voice? Please, visit my site, why not? The elites continue to steal our inheritance and they must be stopped. Lying, corrupt hypocrites everyone! Is this the America our founding fathers fought for and many patriots died for? Is this what we wish to pass on to our kids and grandkids. It is time to wake up America! Thanks, Joe

Arby
many of us here have advocating getting rid of the primary system entirely. Personally I think we need to get rid of the two-party system. What we should have is two runoffs and a final vote between two candidates.

Gumbi
Surely you jest. Whatever would make you think the IRS would go after the tax exempt status of
a church hosting a democrat politician and allowing that politician to do the preachers work and sermonize? It's only if it is a conservative congregation that has the temerity to hand out voter guids that the IRS jumps on.
If the democrat hosting churches were jumped on, there'd be screams of discrimination cuz most of them are of the minority kind.

Why Not Have Nationwide Primary
I don't understand why we don't have a nationwide primary at the same time. I also believe campaigning should be limited to six months prior to the election. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm already deathly sick of listening to all of the junk out there! It is truly amazing how the Florida Dumbs -oops I mean Dems- blame the Republicans because their organization is taking away their rights.

By the way, where is the hue and cry from the national mainstream media about the disenfranchisement of voters in Michigan and Florida? They treat it like a joke as opposed to the disgrace that it is.

MS Nancy

points to ponder
These are the same MORONIC FlaDumbs whose Party Machine CHOSE the butterfly ballots then complained they got cheated by the GOPers. These are the guy who illegally removed a counting machine and had it in the trunk of his car! These are the guys who weren't COUNTING votes but CASTING illegal ones DURING the "counting". These are the guys who cheat, lie, and steal, because they hate! They hate the productive, the moral, the better.

Somebody is right, nothing new here, not even the semi-blase' Conservative Response!

When are you going to get it that these guys HATE you and are out to GET you? Why do some on TH continue to believe in rational discourse, even "common ground" with these MORONIC EVIL PEOPLE! These are not your fellow Americans--they are the Anti-Americans. THEY seek reproachment (however it's spelled) with YOUR enemies, the Sandnazis, the Perverts, the Commies, the European Commiequeers, NOT with YOU!

THEIR idea of "common cause" is SOCIALISM and we are on the brink of it because of the distaste of many on this sight to FIGHTING the very enemies who have sworn America's destruction.

When are you going to quit trying reproachment, and rationalism and start blowing their worthless heads off??

This story should PROVE how IRRATIONAL they are!

Tom Payne said arguing with such people was as stupid as trying to practice medicine on the dead!

MAKING them dead now......

the big mick

Maybe we should go back to
cigar smoke-filled back rooms and forget all the nonsense about "change" and fighting the DC culture.

The professional pols. get what they want anyway, or they throw up so many road blocks and passive-aggressvie attacks that nothing gets done: the CIA and State Dep't under Bush have neve been part of his administration.

Lincoln got elected on a late vote when the Reps. met in Chicago and couldn't settle on a candidate. Lincoln was populat in IL and well known in Chicago. His choice changed the course of the nation.

consider this
If you want a MAJORITY rules, primary system with all at the same time you are going to get every candidate campaigning in the biggest cities and a handful of big city states--NY FLA CALF etc.

Look at your map--that's Commiequeer blue.

Damn if I want THEM picking my next Pres.
No thanks.

The founding Father's wanted the SENATE out of the control of the MAJORITY MOB. That thinking was also the whole point to the electoral college.

I think the primary system ought to be smallest to largest every week from Jan-April. 17 weeks or so for 50 primaries--combine the smaller--make roughly the same number of delegates be at stake each month. MAKE them campaign and contend for the smaller states, but don't let the smallest winnow the field.

big mick

another look
Look at it another way. What you want is the kind of things you get in game shows that gives the trailers a chance at the end. You WANT it IN PLAY till the last vote is counted. You want to rig the system so the pollsters can still be fooled right down to the wire. And you want to penalize the guys who won't campaign in the smaller states with a risk factor.

Otherwise they go for the "big so and so" knowing that they can win campaigning in only a handful of states. That's what you want to avoid, Rule by CaliFlaYork.

the big mick

Respond to Consider This
This is what the candidates do already - they campaign to larger states anyway. They concentrate on the states with the most delegates in the primaries and electoral votes in the general election. I live in Mississippi and the candidates pay little to no attention to us. They might sometime make a stop in Jackson or Biloxi and that is it - and we are not alone in Mississippi. It happens that way in all the small states except Iowa and New Hampshire. The system you propose is interesting as long as it did force them to focus on smaller states first. The final outcome would still mainly be determined by the higher population areas, but at least small states would get the chance to register their votes and feel as if it might actually count for something.

Smaller states should go first...
That would force candidates to go there and talk to
the voters there.

Ignored voters get mad and feel like their one minescule vote doesn't count. I've read one vote in each U.S. precinct could easily change the outcome of an election.

So if the big population states dominate on Feb 5, the little states should all be given Jan 5th...we'd see more involvement in the election...more voters, and government would be more fairly representing all the people. Speak up SMALL STATES...I HEAR YOU.

long hard road
this presidential nomination race has lasted toooo long.

if cacti is the plural of cactus, what is the plural of caucus?

if hilly wins, will billy serve out here 4 yrs. remaining on the senate term in NY?

meet the new boss, same as . . .

adios,

Harvey
Lancaster, Mexifornia

Democrats Disenfranchizing Democrats
They really are just a bunch of American hating Nazis.

rudy...juan
just read that juan is ahead of rudy ..IN NEW YORK! Now iam not a rudy fan...but what in the world has juan ever done for n. york? rudy did some good things as a mayor...more than mc mexico will ever do!!! iam beginning to think we are being fed BULL thru the media..!Are the voters completely out of their minds! i know iam...but i had hope that the rest of you had maintained some sanity!?
I know why juan is leading rudy..cuz' n.york is conservstive...just like juan!

elvis

Or as someone once said
The libs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
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