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Sunday, November 11, 2007
Salena Zito :: Townhall.com Columnist
Triangulation returns
by Salena Zito
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Clintonese, Clinton-speak and Clintonesque.

Three words that describe the art of political triangulation are back in the American lexicon, thanks to Hillary Clinton’s presidential candidacy.

"Triangulation," the brainchild of former Clinton strategist Dick Morris for Clinton-Gore '96, is a pejorative to some; it's double-talk, parsing and waffling at its worst. But for others, such as Democrat strategist Steve McMahon, that reputation is undeserved.

“What it really does is recognize that, in order to get things done, you have to sometimes satisfy competing factions,” he says.

So what is triangulation?

Not "splitting the difference," insists Morris. Rather, it's a strategy “to combine the best of the right and the best of the left and to merge them into a third alternative.”

Nonetheless, triangulation can still hurt the intelligent voter’s brain.

Take the issue of allowing illegal aliens to have driver's licenses. During the Democrats' last debate, no one was clear where Hillary Clinton stood. She gave a non-answer.

In a later interview with CNN, ostensibly to clear things up, Mrs. Clinton blamed the Bush administration for failing to pass comprehensive immigration reform.

Reform certainly is one of the major issues of the 2008 presidential race. Should she win her party's nomination, will Hillary continue to blame Bush when she goes head to head with the Republican nominee? Or will she, finally, take a stand?

“That is the great unknown,” says Arnie Arnesen, a political commentator and former Democrat candidate for New Hampshire governor. “Clinton has never been in a position in a general election where her ability to triangulate has been tested."

But Arnesen finds it "absolutely scary that Democrats are so easily seduced by Clinton, the same way Republicans were so easily seduced by George Bush." She finds it amazing that Democrats now appear to be making the same mistake the GOP did in 2000.

And then there's this: “Everybody remembers triangulation but nobody remembers history," Arnesen says. "Bill Clinton won twice but he never won with the majority of the votes.” Both times it was victory by plurality.

Oddly, in the end, that is what Hillary Clinton is counting on, says Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. “She knows that she’ll never be loved by the voters but a vote cast limply counts just as much as a vote cast enthusiastically.”

A “see-nothing, hear-nothing, say-nothing” strategy can work, Sabato says. “The goal is to cause no problems for the general election and ride into office on a party wave.”

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About The Author
Salena Zito is a political analyst, reporter and columnist.
 
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Avoiding a Three Way Race
Her husband never had to take a majority to win. The Republicans fielded candidates that created an opening within their ranks that was taken advantage of by Perot. Ther is no way to be sure the outcome would have been different in the absence of Perot but the fact remains a majority of Americans preffered someone other than Clinton to be president.

To paraphrase Lloyd Bentson, Hillary is no Bill. I would be really surprised were she to poll higher than he. Most likely she would lose a two way race. A three way race is much more winnable for her. I think you will see a huge effort by the MSM to make the Republican candidate be whoever is the most liberal. Creating that opening for a conservative, even a moderate one, could very well put Hillary back in the White House. I understand principal, but if your principals put a devout socialist in the presidency then you are an idiot.

clinton speak
as richard pryor used to say: you gonna believe me or your lying eyes. The clinton's alas can't keep their mouths shut and keep stories alive by trying to enhance them to their benefit. The audience however is tiring of the repition

Another term for spin...
Triangulation is just another way of saying that some people who vote are too stupid to understand when they're being duped or that they're sheep following their leader.

Republicans don't triangulate because the average IQ of their base is over 80. They could never get away with it. Those who try are quickly dismissed by the base.

orlandocajun
The sad fact is that the people who are too stupid to understand when they're being duped are the majority makers. They decide who is elected. Isn't that scary?

wolfpat
I believe it is less a case of a candidate duping this group of people and more the case that they come preprogrammed to believe certain things about the way the world works. The politician then gains power by pandering to that belief. That government can effectively care for it's citizens basic needs or that foriegn powers will leave us alone if we are nice to them are such beliefs.

That the dupies (new word?) believe these things in the absence of evidence to bolster their belief makes it much simpler to take advantage of them.

QUANT PROJECTIONS
HC STRATEGY

Words mean nothing because their entire approach is set in quantitative analysis. That part of MBA, Marketing, Economics, and PolySci studies that separates the "A-Students" from the rest of us. The grandfathers of the current breed took slide rules to class which put the science in the course work of political science.

So let it be that the brainiacs in the HC campaign are set using quant as their decision rudder then their actions can be anticipated and predictable. Then do what Winston Churchill would do; ergo, when the enemy takes a direction confuse that direction by making the costs far outweigh the benefits. Surround them with uncertainties costs and unwanted outcome results; ergo, trip tem up.

The HC Strategists convince themselves that they are the only ones who can employ ExCel making plans and projections.

Trulib
Dupies are mostly good people. They are just limited in life experience due to having lived protected lives. Ignorance leads to wishful thinking, and prevents them from detecting lies. Then, when they run into something troubling, they look outside themselves for help, never having learned self-reliance. Enter the pied pipers tootling we're from the govt and we're here to help. I put Sophia and Lilly in this group. Excluded from this opinion are the slothful types consciously voting for a free lunch. And on the fringe we have the potty mouthed sociopath trolls who cruise by here trying to start an argument.

Dupes?!
First, I am a conservative. Hillary will be the Herbert Hoover of the 20th century. Ann Coulter is my favorite author. If I were a liberal I would be consumed by fire at this point.
That being said, the Rebublicans had 6 years of complete control and did nothing for the very people you call "dupes." We did not improve the state of education, which would lift their children up. We did not stop illegal immigrants from taking their jobs, and are not going to send them back. We did not improve their health care. We did not improve their lives in any way whatsoever, even by doing the things we claim to stand for, like getting the government off their backs!
If you think these people have any reason to vote Republican, then you are the dupe.

Perpetuating the Clinton Myths
One of the major tactics of the socialist movement is to re-write history in order to legitimize their present position.

Hillary Clinton is certainly a "devout socialist" (as TruLib wrote). Some myths that are attributed to her hubby are: Bill was a fierce anti-terrorist warrior, Bill did everything possible to prevent Al Qaeda from attacking the US, the recession started on Bush's watch, Bill didn't gut the intelligence/military communities, Bill was re-elected by a landslide in 1996, Bill was responsible for the booming 1990's economy (but NOT responsible for the dot.com bust), Bill balanced the budget, started welfare reform, and (most famously) never had sex with that woman.

An objective appraisal of the Clinton regime reveals that it wasn't the utopia that Hillary would like to claim it was. Plagued by scandal after scandal, Bill Clinton was a do-nothing with no major accomplishments in 8 years.

How Hillary expects to run a campaign based on her less-than-faithful husband's checkered past is beyond me. It speaks ill of Americans' intelligence that so many Democrats wil vote for her.

davidmac
in some ways the missus clinton is like scarlett o'hara. She expects everyone to always forget and overlook her previous screw-ups as "tommorrow is another day". As long as we ignore her past, she assures us she will be what ever we want her to be today. And still the leftists hail her as authentic. We do too but only as an authentic fraud

Davidmac
SO true. Excellent post.
Revisionist history, in this case based on fine management of perception. Mr. Clinton is one of the most charming figures ever to grace the public eye. He made people "feel good", and probably still does. The fire in his belly was to be the most liked and admired man on earth. He was liked and admired. But the cost of his popularity was that he kicked the can down the road on major issues, let them languish rather than tackle them and have someone not like him. Many of those came back to plague the current administration (and be blamed on it).
Mrs. Clinton's fire is more about being able to enact those million ideas of hers (that we can't afford).
The perception that the 90's were so good is false in my view. History may show that those issued neglected were allowed to simmer and boil over later.
I think Mrs. Clinton will likewise kick the can down the road in order to focus on her ideas. She has already said that social security isn't an immediate problem. She will let Achmadinijad smile pretty and tell her he's only being peaceful, say she "negotiated", and then turn a blind eye while he continues to build nukes.

Hillary is NOT Clinton
The BS factor with her...and triangulating will be much harder for her than Clinton I.

The alternatives in media, and the strength of their research aided by computer documentation is going to constantly expose her soft points.

I would find out what makes her mad and press those issues in debates. Just don't walk up to her..in her space. The Republican candidate needs not to be a gentle with her, but attack, attack, attack on issues the public already knows about.

Limbaugh [and others] will remind people she said she wanted to take away profits from the oil companies. I think they call that 'nationalizing'. And of course her Universal Health Care. I'd like to find out how she would solve the SocSec scandal. I hope the Republican has an answer for that.

I wouldn't attack her person [their screwed up marriage, her boyfriend that died in Washington, etc.] That will be a loser with women because men have always been the cads, and some might just rationalize it as fair??

Her soft spot is one on one unrehearsed attacks. She is not the smartest woman in the world, only among Democrats [Coulter's book..haha]

Col DOUG


Hillary is not
Margeret Thatcher or Golda Mier. Hillary is not a leader which should be clear to all by her carefully memorized speeches,her planted questions, her training under Dick Morris to follow polls, and her so far successful campaigns in which her aids and the compliant press protect her from serious questions. Do we really know what she stands for and will the voters except fuzzy and generalized, triangulated responses? If they do, as I wrote in another post, they will deserve her and the consequences which will follow.

What it means is
Just say what some want to hear, and then go ahead and silently make policy behind closed doors, and never tell the people where your vision for America comes from.

quote:
"So what is triangulation?

Not "splitting the difference," insists Morris. Rather, it's a strategy “to combine the best of the right and the best of the left and to merge them into a third alternative.”
-------------
Obviously Morris does not believe in Honesty is the Best Policy.
But words are to be used as any other actor uses in playing a role.

Its like a person drowning and half the people watching, want a life line tossed to him and half want him to drown, and the speaker says.

We are here for you, but it going to take several days to get the line out to you.

Tread some water as we intend to save you when we got time.

We got horse manure coming from people who are supposed to be leaders, and we do not get the truth from any of them.

Hunter/Tancredo even Paul are the only non actors in this race.

Many know that and dismiss them to listen to the call for backing some actor saying, do not fight, just lay down and accept the lessor of evils as you always do

Lets elect another liberal running as a conservative, so ......the country gets more Marxist

Rudy's Answer to Illegal Aliens

Pretty much the same as Hillary and GWB. Lip service to border security and "Comprehensive Immigration Reform", amnesty. We tried that once in 1986 and Reagan thought it the worst mistake of his terms. We now have 10 times the number of illegal aliens. We will either elect a President who will uphold the laws or one who will change them to accomodate the illegal aliens. If we do the latter, we are voluntarily committing national suicide.

TruLib, Red Wolverine
Tru Lib, though in your first post you're correct that the majority of voters didn't want Clinton, by the same token the majority of voters didn't want BUSH, either.

None Of The Above (Perot) made a pretty respectable showing, particularly for being as nutty as he was.


Red Wolverine, I agree. I can see no reason at all to vore for another RINO, particularly one arguably even MORE liberal than Bush.

Bush has been bad enough; talk about hopping out of the frying pan and into the fire.

TRIANGULATION?

.....Are you talking about a menage-a-trois with Bill/Hillary/Monica? .....COLOSSUS

WILDWEST

.....Please! ....Scarlett O'Hara was a drop dead gorgeous Southern Belle ...

....Have you seen Hillary from behind in a pant suit? .....COLOSSUS

Triangulation? Tony Blair or Fabian Soci
Triangulation, another concept by the Fabian socialist, espoused by Tony Blair, or dialectic Leninism? A compromise is half a victory against the borgious capitalist. Government encroachment by degrees?

LOL, Bballdoc
You saying you don't like big butts and tree-trunk ankles?

Triangulation Returns
Orlandocajun wrote: "...some people who vote are too stupid to understand when they're being duped..." That's true, but the absolute loyalty of the Democrat voter is incredible. Camille Paglia is brilliant; but to Matt Drudge she said, "I certainly hope Hillary is not the nominee. But I'm a Democrat, so of course I'll vote for her."
A friend of mine with a 168 IQ voted for that paragon of virtue Carol Mosely Braun "because it will be good to have a black woman in the Senate."
The single-mom women vote for Hillary on the basis of what she might GIVE them (but you idiot, she's a Marxist! Yeah, but I'm on the bottom, so I'll get stuff she takes from you). Single women vote for Obama because he's sexy (He's married. So? does that stop a President? After all, everybody knows Monica planned the whole tryst thing with Clinton. And let's give the first black man a CHANCE.)
The men who vote Democrat -- at least here in Illinois -- arrive at the polls in trucks with union bumper stickers all over them; or they're teachers (again, union)or lawyers who gain by prosecuting, defending or participating in corruption. IF there were such a thing as a conservative Democrat, they'd vote for him/her; but they've always voted D, and by gar, will now.
They really don't let their self-interest get in the way, even when they're more financially successful and have a greater stake in not electing The One Who Wants Exxon's Profits or The Amateur or The Oleagenous One or The One Who Would Cede Iraq to the Tender Mercies of Iran.
While Duncan Hunter is the best Republican, he might not be able to out-debate The Automaton-Lady.

BrianR
In the 2000 election no one had a majority of votes cast but in 2004 Bush did take slightly more than half. The third party factor probably helped Clinton in his races and most assuredly worked against Gore in his.

What might be really interesting would be to have third and fourth party candidates. There are a lot of Leftnuts that think Hillary is a rightwing tool of industry. Many conservatives see their front runners as repeats of Bush. If there were to be alternate candidates from each party draining votes away from the main party candidates you might actually have a president elected with less than forty percent of the popular vote. Now there is a mandate.

CAPSIZED GOING TURTLE
The HC Quants in order to cast a line from here to there they must presume; ergo, they presume that the Masses (we guys) do not care, do not remember, do not think important the pantsuits on the beach, socialized health care screw-up, kissing Aratat’s wife (love it when the girls kiss), Monica-Monica-Monica, not willing to do a Lewinsky, Saul Alinsky, betraying her dead father (guy that paid for Wellesley), confused immigration policy, Rose Law Firm, the Vince Foster Mystery, Norman Hsu (this drill will hit oil), more fundraising scandals.

The ship Hillary is capsized taking on water fast about to go turtle.

Yeah, TruLib, you really have to laugh
I can envision an election in which the Dems hate their candidate so much they vote for the Repub, and the Repubs hate their candidate so much they vote for the Dem.

Very Saturday Night Live!


Democracy doomed
The way this nation is going we will lose our republic.Both the dems and the pubbies are giving more and more money to the non productive.If amnesty is granted this will increase the people that want something for nothing.This type will always vote for the person that promises more.Once they become a larger majority we are doomed. GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS

Giuliani on Giuliani
“Mayor Giuliani, when he was mayor of New York, basically said I'm not a Reagan Republican anymore, I'm a moderate Republican; I'm pro-choice, I'm for the Brady Bill, I'm for the assault weapons ban"
CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/04/06/national/main181115.shtml)


"But the contrast is not as sharp in Mrs. Clinton's expected contest with Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani. The mayor and the first lady hold almost identical views on gun control, which could complicate any effort by Mrs. Clinton to draw a contrast. Mr. Giuliani's campaign manager, Bruce J. Teitelbaum, said, "As a senator, New Yorkers will know exactly what Mayor Giuliani will do because he doesn't just talk about gun control, he actually has a record of taking an historic number of guns off the streets."
NY Times on the Web, 10 May 2000


“Abortion Fits GOP Philosophy, Says Giuliani
By Jeff McKay
CNS Correspondent
April 09, 2001”

“Giuliani Touts Senate's 'Comprehensive' Approach to Immigration Policy

By IRA STOLL - Staff Reporter of the Sun
April 27, 2006

Mayor Giuliani is wading into the debate over America's immigration policy with the argument that the comprehensive approach being pursued by the Senate is better for American security than what he called the "punitive" approach being pressed by the House of Representatives.”


Hillary Cilnton Double Talk Is Dishonest
It is difficult to understand if the problem is with Hillary Clinton's double talk, or the problem is with her ignorant supporters who accept her lies.

Does Hillary Clinton reflect her supporters, in that it does not matter that she lies, double talks, flip flops, or give no answers to serious issue questions, because all her supporters care about is that she wins. If so, than the biggest problem with America's politics is not the corrupt politicians, but the morons that support the corrupt politicians.

If the majority of Americans believe America is on the wrong track but supports those same politicians who continues to lie and do the same old nothing, than as Americans, we get what we deserve, which is a whole lot of nothing.

It is time that the people do their homework, and vote on issues and not on scripted lies from the lips of lying politicians and the demon media lies.

This country wants and needs change, not a promise of maybe change. And change can start with the end of the dynasty of the,

Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton.


Alinsky’s Rule #5:
ALINSKY IS STALIN ~ 1
Alinsky’s Rule #5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.

This rule is ripe for HC. The pantsuits over and over have got to be considered “old fashioned”. Going to a resort island and walking the beach wearing a pantsuit with a guy wearing Bermuda shorts gives the idea that this person is just not comfortable; ergo, neurotic.

Nude beaches have women of all sizes and shapes and if these females can feel natural and comfortable there is something terribly wrong about HC which needs to be exposed.

JAMES
And it must be remembered that Saul Allinsky was one of Der Hill's professors, and by all accounts her favorite, almost a surrogate father after her falling out with her own father (a moderate Kennedy/Eisenhower middle-of-the-roader).

As for "Triangulation", it really works something like this;

1. Find out what your own side, and your opponents, want most. (Probably diametrically opposed.)

2. Promise both groups what they yearn for.

3. Get both groups support, and get elected.

4. Once elected, tell opponents to go frag themselves, tell own supporters "Let The Good times ROLLLL!"

5. Wash, rinse, and repeat as necessary.

This theory, of course, assumes that everyone but your own faithful are gullible fools. Which is why it takes a very special sort of chutzpah to pull it even once, let alone repeatedly.

Not that Ms. Hillary, or Bill for that matter, has ever had a shortage of same.


cheers

eon


Red Wolverine,
exactly !!! I am not going to be duped again.

RIDICULE
HC makes her own ridicule so just stay out of her way! She is hysterical.


Her Seig Heil George Soros allies read every word

+++++++++++++++ SUFFER S HIT HEADS+++++++++++++

baseballdoc
my only reference covered her attitude about life and the distain she holds for everyone. There is no way to comment on something that doesn't exist. The missus clinton is more a candidate for a hogging contest. It's 1:50 and the bar closes in 10 minutes and you are trying to decide with pig sitting at the bar you might go home with. However at 2:00 the missus clinton is still astride her barstool. There ain't enough booze you could consume to make the missus clinton appear halfway human

JAMES
You incompetents had your chance and failed. You controlled both houses and the executive and proved beyond redemption that fundamentalist conservatism was a tragic failure akin with communism and fascism as governing systems. Look at history. It isn't the society that enforces conformity that survives and thrives. The future belongs to diversity and change both history and successful societies prove it. Want a poll of all Americans? How about the question: which presidential terms were best for you and the country? Bush (see even let him have first slot) or Clinton.

James
You structured a sentence containing 'nude beaches''Hillary Clinton' and 'needs to be exposed'. After fighting thru the nausea created by that thought I almost flagged it as offensive. Then I realized it was not your writing that is offensive, it is Hillary, clothed or not.

In addition Hal seems to think in that the Republicans were thrown out for acting like Democrats it guarantees the Dems will not be when they act like Dems. While it is possible I find the expectation nonsensical.

TruLib/James
It comes down to being competent doesn't it? What has the Bush regime done competently other than campaign? Say what you want this administration performed worst than the Carter disaster and that was not backed by an idealogy just incompetence. My fear? That the R party will not even survive and we will become a one party country

Hal Donahue
By all means - it is vital

Ask your doctor or dealer to change your meds - Whatever it is you are putting in your system is stupid stuff making your string of thoughts completely incomprehensible. Thoughts need sequence conducive to time and if the topic was history the word "history" would have been predicate otherwise it is a change of topic which has not been requested.

The topic is HC, Seig Heil George Soros, Eli Pariser and the light little twentieth types plus the Brat-Crats from MediaMatters frolicking at a nude beach without having one of the nudies make the all other nudies throw up.


JAMES
YAWN as much as you appear to crave attention to nudity it is boring...
Change of subject is at everyone's descretion. Nudity? Unless you are 12 you probably have little interest in exploring as a political topic.

QUANT PROJECTIONS
JAMES writes: Sunday, November, 11, 2007 9:01 AM
QUANT PROJECTIONS
HC STRATEGY

Words mean nothing because their entire approach is set in quantitative analysis. That part of MBA, Marketing, Economics, and PolySci studies that separates the "A-Students" from the rest of us. The grandfathers of the current breed took slide rules to class which put the science in the course work of political science.

So let it be that the brainiacs in the HC campaign are set using quant as their decision rudder then their actions can be anticipated and predictable. Then do what Winston Churchill would do; ergo, when the enemy takes a direction confuse that direction by making the costs far outweigh the benefits. Surround them with uncertainties costs and unwanted outcome results; ergo, trip tem up.

The HC Strategists convince themselves that they are the only ones who can employ ExCel spreadsheets making plans and projections.


DOWN HILL
Credit: NY Post today

wired.com

DOWN HILL

"Iniially, the intent of this website was to promote Hillary Clinton and ensure she was electeed president in 2008. We were going to list her positions (missionary,etc.) on this website, but because of how quickly her positions change on each issue, we simply don't have the staff to be able to keep up with all the updates."

I smell Seig Heil George Soros is "pulling out", all puns included.

A Vote for Rudy is a Vote for Hillary!
Rudy will nominate liberals to the supreme court. Nothing that these frozen with fear former conservatives say will change that. Except for the fact that Rudy will not nominate anyone because Rudy will not win. While mayor Rudy nominated over 100 judges and most of them were liberals. You ought to learn from history. Check this out.

Here are some red state results for 2004.
Texas:Bush 61.09% Kerry 38.22%
Arkansas:Bush 54.31% Kerry 44.55%
Louisiana:Bush 56.72% Kerry 42.22%
Florida:Bush 52.10% Kerry 47.09%
Tennessee:Bush 56.80% Kerry 42.53%

Now here are some results for Dole in 1996.
Texas:Dole 48.76% Clinton 43.83% Perot 6.75%
Arkansas:Dole 36.80% Clinton 53.74% Perot 7.90%
Louisiana:Dole 39.94% Clinton 52.01% Perot 6.91%
Florida:Dole 42.32% Clinton 48.02% Perot 9.12%
Tennessee:Dole 45.59% Clinton 48.00% Perot 5.59%

And that is just with Dole! Rudy is even more of a slap in the face than he was! Rudy will be a complete Hillary Clinton victory! Get on board a stop Rudy effort before it is too late! Please stop this nonsense!

Truly Scary Thought
Given the guys running for the GOP nomination, the only thing standing between Hillary and the Oval Office is Barack Obama.

baseballdoc
my only reference covered her attitude about life and the distain she holds for everyone. There is no way to comment on something that doesn't exist. The missus clinton is more a candidate for a hogging contest. It's 1:50 and the bar closes in 10 minutes and you are trying to decide with pig sitting at the bar you might go home with. However at 2:00 the missus clinton is still astride her barstool. There ain't enough booze you could consume to make the missus clinton appear halfway human

Evasiveness, the Mark of a Leader
Bill Clinton in his heyday, with the help of the pop media obediently carrying his considerable water, could make it seem (to the indifferent & undecided) as though there was indeed a third, lofty, dispassionate viewpoint from which any bickering over two sides of an issue could be observed and commented upon with weary disdain.

Apparently Hil just isn't nearly as artful as Bill. Her "triangulation" seems to consist of simply evading the question & instead providing some cliched soundbite out of her prepared supply. She did the same with that 'planted' question about global warming; I for one would've LOVED for her to have answered it fully & honestly. Show people what kind of an eternal Soviet Union we'll end up living in, & enough of them will grow a brain that we can finally drive a stake thru this AGW dogma's heart once & for all.

Actually, her pal Janet Reno demonstrated how to deal with illegal aliens. Send ICE stormtroops in SWAT gear to kick in doors, drag'em out, and shove'em into boats & planes & buses bound for back-home. That's what Reno did with Elian Gonzales, & the lefties just cheered.
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