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Sunday, November 19, 2006
Ruben  Navarrette Jr.,  :: Townhall.com Columnist
Escondido and others have it wrong on immigration
by Ruben Navarrette Jr.,
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SAN DIEGO -- Warning: This column takes issue with a half-baked "solution," and thus will likely elicit angry letters accusing the author of "supporting illegal immigration." And since the author is Mexican-American, some readers may charge that he is "trying to bring over relatives." There are those who claim the in-vogue idea of municipalities banning landlords from renting to illegal immigrants is cruel, inhumane and heavy-handed. But, for me, the real problem with such bans is that they're dishonest, misdirected, and destined to fail.

Dishonest because these measures -- approved by officials in Escondido, Calif., Hazleton, Pa., and, last week, Farmers Branch, Texas -- feed this notion of an invasion, as if the good people of City X or Town Y were minding their own business and, suddenly, off in the distance, comes an army of Mexican immigrants. It couldn't be that these "good people" are hiring illegal immigrants or excusing those who hire them.

Get it right. This is a self-inflicted wound. Illegal immigrants aren't invading. They've been invited. I used to live near Farmers Branch, and now I live near Escondido. I've had it with folks in these places playing dumb as to how their cities got to this point, as if they haven't been riding this tiger for the last decade while enjoying a robust economy and the comforts provided by cheap immigrant labor.

In fact, while the city councils in Escondido and Hazleton put in place fines for employers, officials in Farmers Branch tabled such a provision. What? The Farmers Branch City Council spoke so eloquently about fending off the scourge of illegal immigration, but then gave employers a free ride. Que paso? Employers aren't as easy to pick on as illegal immigrants -- not if you're a politician in North Texas who has to raise money to further your political aspirations.

Misdirected because these measures try to enforce immigration law by targeting landlords who rent to folks who turn out to be illegal immigrants. I'll be darned if I can figure how squeezing landlords helps enhance border security. If people have a problem with illegal immigration, let them target it head-on -- not nibble around the edges with housing bans.

I'm also at a loss to understand how another provision of these loco ordinances -- declaring English the official language of cities and towns -- helps curb illegal immigration. What it does is make plain that, for many Americans, this debate is about cultural displacement -- the fear that, with Spanish becoming more prevalent, those who speak English will become less relevant. Immigration restrictionists hate being called racists, and they resent those who confuse legal and illegal immigrants. So what do they do? They support efforts to make English the official language of City X or Town Y. And thus they promote racism and the blurring of the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants.

Official English laws are anti-foreigner, plain and simple. And, it doesn't matter if the foreigner in question came legally or illegally. All that matters is that they speak a language other than English. Similar laws in the late 19th century were aimed at German immigrants. The fact that those immigrants came legally did little to quell the passions of the nativists of that era.

Destined to fail because landlords, renters and employers are not likely to change their ways so easily. Renters who live in mixed families where some members are illegal and others have documents may simply start registering apartments under the name of those who are in the country legally. Those who do leave a town because of a ban may simply move to a neighboring town, which won't do much to curb illegal immigration. Meanwhile, landlords and employers determined not to lose money may just get sneakier and take their chances at not getting caught, since enforcement will be erratic at best. In the end, voters in City X or Town Y will be left with only a feel-good impression that they took a stand against illegal immigration. Nothing of substance will have been accomplished.

These vengeful local communities got one thing right. They are the problem, and they can and should be part of the solution. But this approach creates more problems than it solves.

Now let me have it. "Supporting illegal immigration." Blah, blah. "Trying to bring over relatives." Blah, blah.

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About The Author
Ruben Navarrette Jr. is a columnist and editorial board member of The San Diego Union-Tribune.

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Lets keep it simple.
Ruben,


WE'RE FROM TEXAS, SCREW YOU.

Dumb law bites the dust
http://www.ci.escondido.ca.us/immigration/Statement.pdf

The politicians got their pubicity, and accomplished nothing - as predicted.

law and unlawful
Dear Mr. Navarrette, Jr.,

I will neither respond with an angry letter accusing you of "supporting illegal immigration.’ or “charge that you are trying to bring over relatives.” That is foolish and unfounded in fact.

However, people who may be welcomed by Big Business, Big Brother and primarily Big Money are factually criminals. And as we are a country founded on the Rule of Law, we do not support nor encourage criminal behavior. All illegal aliens are criminals.

Kudos to the city of Escondido for trying to not only remove the dangling carrot of money, but removing the lure of profit to the landlords renting to criminals and uphold the law in America pretty much all by themselves. To knowingly rent to illegal aliens is a felony and quite dishonest. To knowingly enter America illegally the first time is a misdemeanor crime and dishonest. To uphold laws with enforcement is honest.

Perhaps we need to do as our southern sister does, which not only removes any incentives to enter Mexico unlawfully, but penalizes those who have done so. There is no ACLU, MALDEF or other bleeding heart "We Profit From These Illegals" groups to intervene. Enough is quite enough.

To quote Ronald Reagan: “We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions “

And indeed he is correct. Only the lawbreakers themselves and their benefactors are to be held accountable. No one else. For truly, 'Good fences make good neighbors' just as Robert Frost wrote.


-------------------------------------

Mexico admits poor treatment of migrants

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/13460590.htm

MEXICO CITY - Mexico's federal Human Rights Commission acknowledged on Wednesday …Jose Luis Soberanes, president of the rights commission, said that Mexico also uses many government agencies, such as the police and the military, to detain undocumented migrants, even though Mexican law technically doesn't allow that….But Soberanes slammed another provision of the U.S. immigration bill that would build 700 miles of additional fences or walls along the U.S.-Mexico border, calling it "absurd."…The commission also acknowledged that Mexico mistreats many migrants - mostly Central Americans who cross Mexico in a bid to reach the United States - and called for improvement on that front.

The human rights commission also presented a report on Wednesday that found overcrowding and bad conditions at about three-quarters of Mexico's 51 immigration detention centers and 68 other holding facilities.
--------------------------------------

Report on Human Rights Practices MEXICO

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML

….Found that the police sometimes violated the rights of illegal immigrants. .

http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/textos/ Human%20Rights%20Report%202003.pdf -

------------------------------------------------
There also were credible reports that police, immigration, and customs officials were involved in the trafficking of illegal migrants (see Section 6.f.).

Government authorities now process all refugee documentation.



http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:zuAYFViroR8J:www.usembassy-mexico.gov/textos/Human%2520Rights%2520Report%25202003.pdf+Jose+Manuel+Rosales,+20,illegal+immigrant&hl=en







Ronald Reagan http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/ronald_reagan.html



http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/frost-mending.html

“The Mending Wall” by Robert Frost

…'Good fences make good neighbors'.






Raidencraig
This has been a while and you probably won't see this but I had to ask...

Where do you get your figures...and did you read ALL of that 1997 National Academy of Science report...especially the part:

The evidence points to the conclusion that immigration has had a relatively small adverse impact on the wage and employment opportunities of competing native groups.

... At the state and local level, the average NPV is -$25,000, and at the federal level it is +$105,000. Ages of arrival at which immigrants generate the most positive fiscal impacts at the federal level are the very ages at which they generate the most negative impacts at the state and local level.

.. However, they do not include the working-age native-born children of immigrants, who typically have a positive fiscal impact. For this reason, cross-sectional or current fiscal impacts estimated for immigrant-headed households are biased toward negative numbers.

(Page 7)


wiseone
What's really "amazing" is that even after those who tried to run on the anti-immigration ticket lost...you guys are still trying to push the issue.

Let's make a deal here...give it 6 months and watch. If those serious about running for president runs on the anti-immigration/border control ticket, then you're right...most Americans agree with you on the importance of closing the border.

But if you hear very little from the candidates themselves, then you know their people have run tests on what AMERICANS, not just the base of the GOP, care about and decided that despite all the screaming of the hard liners, the illegal immigration issue is not a winning ticket.

If you are right, then they will close the Mexican border; which is fine with me.

If I am right, then we may lose the White House and from there, the war, the courts, and our tax cuts...and THAT will be YOUR fault.

Deal?

Another knee-jerk reaction
Once again, Navarrette seems to operate under the assumption that our immigration laws were just arbitrarily made up, only for the sake of making them up, with no underlying principle as their foundation. He thinks we just enforce the law simply because it IS the law.

He simplistically believes he uncovered some hidden hypocritical agenda when he says “this debate is about cultural displacement”.

Well guess what Ruben, your right! Cultural displacement is part (and I stress, just a PART) of the debate.
But what you fail to understand is that concern for preserving our culture is part of the VERY REASON we have immigration laws in the first place, and are therefore concerned about those laws being broken.

This contradiction you so desperately try to grope for doesn’t exist!

The only contradiction I see is you calling the illegal immigrant problem in these cities a “self-inflicted wound”, and then criticizing these same cities for owning up to their problem and treating that “wound”.

It’s the federal government’s job to “enhance border security” and “curb illegal immigration”, and these cities know that. They are not trying to do the Feds job (and you know it!).
They are simply acting within their power and ability to alleviate some of the local problems that have resulted from the Federal Government’s failure to enforce our laws.

Regular readers may notice that Ruben Navarrette claims to be against illegal immigration, and OCCASIONALLY pays lip service to the idea of enforcing our laws.
However, he seems to have this knee-jerk reaction to criticize absolutely ANYTHING having to do with being against illegal immigration, no matter how logically flawed or inconsistent his arguments are.

funny
"I'm also at a loss to understand how another provision of these loco ordinances -- declaring English the official language of cities and towns -- helps curb illegal immigration. What it does is make plain that, for many Americans, this debate is about cultural displacement -- the fear that, with Spanish becoming more prevalent, those who speak English will become less relevant. "


I'd like to know how he justifies these notions with reality. That we get Spanish thrust on us to deal with a communication problem (in many circles) matters not to him or others, apparently.


"Immigration restrictionists hate being called racists, and they resent those who confuse legal and illegal immigrants. So what do they do? They support efforts to make English the official language of City X or Town Y. And thus they promote racism and the blurring of the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants."


Yes they would because they are neither restrictioists or racists. (nothing short of open borders is acceptable for some) Come now, you are the one trying to "Blur" distinction between legal and illegal. We can't have a national standard of language? Hogwash. We are "immigration restricionists" if we opt to enforce legal immigration? Hogwash.

In the opening you seemed to worry about how your view is interpreted. I would disagree. I suggest there are immigration laws because that is how a civilized society does things via law not because they are inherently racist. But he offers nothing to substantiate his claims of (others) being racists, or restrictionists.

Not right wing rhetoric
To expect those who live in America to become Americans by entering the country legally (as we would be expected to enter their home country), to learn the language (as we would be expected to do if we lived in Mexico), getting a job legally (as we would be expected to do in Mexico), and following the laws of the country (as we would be expected to do in Mexico). That is not unintelligent or lacking in compassion. It is simply recognizing that a country who admits immigrants who refuse to assimilate will not long remain the country it started out as. By all means keep your language and celebrate the culture of the country you come from, but recognize that the United States of America is an English-speaking country with laws. You must follow those laws if you want to remain here. That includes entering the country legally. That means when you apply for a driver's license you do so with proper and legally obtained documentation in English. What is so wrong or horrible about that?

Great Article!
Great article Mr Navarrette!! It is one of the best I have read on the subject and I plan to send it out to others.

Some Americans are intelligent and compassionate and see beyond the right wing rhetoric.




Reuben Navarrette: Reconquestador!
Dear Mr. Navarrette:

I am a frequent reader of your articles and I must say, with all due respect, I find your views on immigration very disturbing, specifically the recent article regarding the display of a foreign flag on US soil.

I don't think that you understand that many Americans do not want this country to turn into a 3rd World nation like Mexico, and many of the countries in Latin America. In short, if we wanted to live like/in Mexico, we would move there.

This country needs a comprehensive immigration policy that focuses first on securing the borders. Otherwise the notion of MexAmeriCanada will be a reality, not just an idea favored by internationalists and reconquestardores like yourself.


Navarette is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG
Amazing,

Over 150 responses. Illegal immigration must be THE issue of the day. No wonder the GOP lost the election (Limbaugh is right again).

Navarette props up the tired old "I can find one thing you're not doing to solve the problem so you can't do anyting" refrain and tries to breathe life into it.

"Invited" my butt. THEY ARE ILLEGAL. WHAT PART OF "ILLEGAL" DO GUYS LIKE NAVARETTE NOT UNDERSTAND?

The problem here is NOT city councils that want to fine landlords who rent to illegals. The problem is guys like Navarette who start every argument they make by ignoring the real defintion of the word "illegal".

raidencraig
It was easy,I disle...dyslex..dis..
Poor vision and a bad spelerr...( :

Jim
Some people have difficulty connecting the dots...they are like children who wants what they want NOW--and expect the parents (aka the government) to make all the sacrifices.

I have nothing against national I.D.s (as I have nothing against the wall going up) but I refuse to give a blank check to a feel good but does not solve the problem venture.

If we are going to spend a fortune on tamper proof cards, then we need to do it right. That means biometric cards which contain a person's DNA.

Putting aside the privacy issue, biometric technology cards will run around $500 to $600 a piece. Before we give a Liberal ok to spending this kind of tax payer's money...let's try this "Conservative" idea.

Michael Medved has expressed the desire for every tax payer to NOT have taxes taken out of their pay...instead, he suggest that each payer writes a check for his taxes on pay day. He believes that once the tax payer actually sees that it's his/her money being taken, they will demand accountability from those who spend their money.

So, let us say EACH person who want to work, to get any benefits, to get a passport...HAS to get one of these cards. EACH person hands over $500 to $600 (debit/charge cards accepted) and that includes one for each child so a family of 4 would have to come up with $2000. NOW how many of these hard liners would be in favor of requiring these cards?

By the way, has anyone done the math of 12 MILLION illegals TIMES that "small" fine of $2000 each...

merrygoboy
OTIRF OTIDNAB

He was attacked by a bunch of liberal Mexican groups,in the early 70s.
Frito lay was afraid of the bad publicity,so they caved in.
Actually,I heard he has a bounty on Naveretts head.

( :

illegal immigration
i take it from ruben's last paragraph he knows
he does not know what he is talking about,
illegal is illegal

Loved the commentary
The GOP would love think that illegal immigration wasn't one of the prime issues that caused many of their serious mid term losses, but that's simply wishful thinking. Ruben here is a stone cold liberal socialist - I wonder how well his commentary would go over in Mexico if he advocated that it's gov't do exactly the same things it proposes this country's gov't do.

HINT: He wouldn't be too popular, not even with the illegals he's continually trying to foist upon us.

Can't figure it out
“I'll be darned if I can figure how squeezing landlords helps enhance border security. If people have a problem with illegal immigration, let them target it head-on -- not nibble around the edges with housing bans.”

It seems to me that is exactly what you advocate - nibbling.Thats how it got this far. When law comes down against the illegals, then it is some inter fault of the US or gov policy. In fact to follow that reasoning since they managed getting here, then of course we are at fault. (we missed them) Of course employers hiring are at fault.


If anyone is interested in increasing the mi/wage, then its directly undermining their intent. It further creates classism. Again our fault eh? No one tells them come and work for that money – how about responsible choice? No one tells them to line up infront of building suppliers as day laborers. That space is not rented or supplied by the end employers. Why not give illegals some accountability here for the problems, instead of blaming it on everyone else? Oh I get it, when the crackdown comes, such as landlords and towns, up rolls the ACLU and their comrades in arms. Yea pretty head on, intimidation.

Republicans Never Learn
As Los Angeles radio talk show host Terry Anderson, an African-American from South Centtral, always says: We are sick of the Republican party's Hispandering, as if sympathy to illegal aliens will result in massive migration of Hispanic people to the Republican party. It is apparent that Republican elites do not want to win any more elelctions, or they would listen to comments against illegal immigration posted on Town Hall and raised by callers to talk radio. Instead, they make endless rounds of rubber chicken circuits and get interviewed by lap-dog Republican media hosts who never pose challenging questions to them or demand answers.

Speaking the language
I attend a church that is multicultural with Koreans and Hispanics meeting in seperate meetings and interacting with what we call the English-speaking congregation (whites, Alaskan Natives, black and Japanese currently), so I will object to anyone calling me a racist. I speak Spanish and American Sign Language as second languages. My father grew up speaking English and Swedish. I'm not opposed to the preservation of traditional language and culture at home among people who immigrate to this country.

However, I do believe English should be the official language of the country and that we should all be required to use it in conducting public business. This forces people to learn the language of this country. That is not cruel or anti-immigrant. It is saying that if you want to live in this country you must assimilate. By having to learn English, it forces some degree of assimilation. It moves the speaker one step closer to understanding the culture of this country. This does not mean they are forced to speak English in their homes or with their friends. It does mean they have to accept a part of American culture.

It's not racism to say that if you live in this country, you should assimilate the culture!

RaidenCraig?
Sorry I totally missed this:

"A way to counter ALL ILLEGALS is to REQUIRE an INVIOLATE I.D. card for ANY NON-citizen to function here-- to work, seek social services, get licenses, attend college, sign a lease, pass go, etc. It would be cost-effective, straightforward, the technology is there, and it would slay multiple dragons at once-- e.g., miscreant employers could no longer wink at phony docs. It would readily allow accountability for taxes paid, cross-reference with criminal records, etc. You make them apply for it ONLY in a native country with a thorough vetting by us. It obviates the straw man ruse, "We cannot simply deport 15 million ILLEGALS." If someone who is here ILLEGALLY cannot sustain himself, he is MUCH LESS likely to come or to stay. To suggest that the miscreant would not voluntarily step forward to apply for such a card is arrant indirection-- let's see how many can get along without one! BUILD A WALL, AND CRACK DOWN ON LAWBREAKING EMPLOYERS, BUT THE BEST GATEKEEPER WILL BE AN TAMPER-PROOF I.D. CARD."

Let's get this straight, if I attempt to get a job, seek social services, as you suggest, if I produce a card I am a legal immigrant, if I fail to produce a card, I am either American or an illegal immigrant?

Seems a recipe for disaster. A better scheme is that all legal immigrants and American citizens carry a tamper proof ID and the illegal immigrants don't have them, don't you agree?

Of course this has a number of problems, even if it would solve the problem you want solved. Tamper proof equates to biometrics and such schemes are not cheap. If you were to look at another western nation, roughly analogous to the US, Britain say, one can see that in a report by the London school of Economics that to produce this scheme is estimated cost of £19.2 billion ($34.5 billion). Furthermore such implimentation is likely prone to teething problems are no project of this size has been attempted and smaller projects suffered from problems.

So that's the Brits. Ok take their population of 60 million and the US of 300 million gives us a grand total of $172.8 billion

In addition you have the unenviable choice of telling foreign governments to put biometrics within their passports (unlikely to happen given the costs involved, but if we are lucky or unlucky depending on whether you like Brits they will at least) or that part of the visa includes producing a card for them. Even if the individual shoulders the cost, you still have to implement the system and the machinery to produce them.

Finally the report estimated the cost of card readers to be £200-£400 ($360-$720) each. How often you scan and where you place card readers is your choice. The report did not go into it and I don't have great inclination either. Other than to suggest that every business and government office would need one.

So final bill is what?

Certainly more than $172.8 billion but how much no one actually knows.

No wonder you avoided this idea. I have not even gone into the ethical arguments, although Aldous Huxley or George Orwell doesn't seem that far away now does it?


raidencraig
I don't waste my time on useless dialog but I did want to say one thing...a parting gift, let's say.

Don't bash the president and the GOP, then get all bent because you get bashed in return. You've taken your own "freedom of speech" card, calling Bush and Republicans worst names than "stupid" and played it for all it's worth.

Only you forgot that people have the same card...and some people aren't "too nice" to NOT use it.

Everything has consequences raidencraig...I know that when I fight for what I believe in and it goes against the crowd that I may get attacked...but it IS the price I am willing to pay. I do not, EVER, call into question the idea that someone is not "being nice".

Navarrette knew that the extremes would go ballistic but he wrote this column anyway. Townhall claims to be a place of DIFFERENT opinions where free speech goes both ways. It is too bad that many of the posters think it should preach to the choir.


Lydia
funny how much you hard liners are sounding like Liberals...anyone who disagrees with you is "not true Conservatives"...and now "not loyal Americans"?

Sigh...no wonder the Republicans lost. For all the claims to being morally superior to the Liberals...RINOs like you, are taking whole pages out of the Liberal playbook...and the rest of the country think you talk for the party that you deny belonging to.




DavidM
You voted Republican...so, you went against YOUR principles...but you're angry when politicians do it because?

This is what I mean about growing up. Life IS full of choices. And we make them every day when we hold our tongue and don't tell our bosses, clients etc. what we really think. We do it because we don't have the luxury of dying on every hill...we have families to feed and shelter.

These are word games...spin...it makes you feel so righteous to say..."I want politicians that will stand on Conservative principles"...only they have constituents they have to answer to and most contributors are not idealistic enough to want someone in there that isn't going to help them personally. Unless you can personally fund someone's campaign, do not expect them to dance to YOUR tune.

That may not be what you want to hear, but it is reality.

And you know what David? I think you know that. Cons are funny things...they keep knocking on your brain.

Illegal ALIENS . . .
not IMMIGRANTS. The people most of the posters are writing about ENTERED the USA ILLEGALLY.

They aren't immigrants. Immigrants want to be Americans, file the paperwork and enter the USA legally.

Ruben badmouths Escondido
Ruben The Red has a lot in common with the Catholic church. They oppose immigration of Muslims into Europe and scream bloody murder if the US attempts to stem the flow of ILLEGAL immigration into our nation. Ruben exemplifies the reasons why the print media is in such trouble. The San Diego Union Tribune has taken this viper into their midst because he is brown and for no other reason. They think they are demonstrating diversity and that by so doing, the new Hispanic majority will reward them by buying their paper in the future. The UT and Ruben both have a lesson to learn. That new majority will read La Opinion and that publication will not hire Ruben. Both will be tossed onto the ash heap. And both will learn that if you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

raidencraig
What I thought to be a loquacious statement from you turns out is a precise missive of the subject and solution, one to behold and revere.

On behalf of every reasonable Patriot on Townhall, Thank You! Excellent Post.

Invited?
"Illegal immigrants aren't invading. They've been invited"

Really? I know people I invite to my house always come in the middle of the night after paying thousands of dollars to be smuggled onto my property. Either that or they hide in the UPS truck or newspaper vehicle. They also routinely jump or climb my fence. Not only that but they also forge invitations or steal other invitations. Yes sir, Invited!

RedWhiteBlue
Your comments to the article(5:32am) are terrific and exactly on point.

Shut off services and there's no reason to show up.

Enforce our laws and start penalizing employers who hire illegals. I will happily pay $3 more for a meal if it means an American gets that job.

Scare tactics do nothing for me except solidify my resolve even further about this issue and what needs to be done.

sanity
I voted republican this election.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

Wow
127-0. Looks like your views are not exactly mainstream, Navarette.

btw, if you want to consider me 'racist' for my views, which seem to be shared by everyone else who has responded to you, please, be my guest. I can live with the pain.

Brian
"BrianR writes: Monday, November, 20, 2006 12:52 AM
ANY COUNTRY that refuses to enforce its sovereignty and borders from mass illegal incursions isn't going to last very long.

Today's news: Saudi Arabia is building a 550 mile long, $26 billion, fence along its borders.

Enough said?"


Excellent Point! Well said.

Keep the Criminals Out
Last night a friend of my wife went to sleep with the window cracked for fresh air. She woke to find a burglar in her bedroom. She screamed and he fled. The burglar was a Latino male, who she believes had been with a company who did some yard work for her a month ago. I can't verify for a fact that he was illegal, but everyone knows all the lawn care companies in my Texas city operate using mostly illegal workers. There is a corner near downtown where they gather and are picked up by yard care trucks for day labor. This is not an isolated incident. I read about crimes linked to illegal immigrants virtually every day, especially in border states. This is why we must make our leaders enforce our immigration laws, and why we need to start going after employers and landlords who look the other way. I welcome anyone of any nation and ethnicity that comes here legally and works hard and obeys our laws. But we have enough home-grown crime in this country without importing more. We need to keep the criminals and terrorists out while allowing the good people in who want to come here and work.

A couple of comments about the unconvincing article by Mr. Navarrette:

"I'll be darned if I can figure how squeezing landlords helps enhance border security."

It's pretty simple, Mr. Navarrette. If illegals can't find a job or a place to live they'll quit coming here. Even if some people find a way to skirt these measures, it WILL have a effect. It's like traffic laws. Sure, people get away with running red lights and speeding, but most motorists who habitually disobey traffic laws eventually get caught. The threat of being pulled over is enough to make most people obey the law, even if some continue to risk a ticket.

"Get it right. This is a self-inflicted wound. Illegal immigrants aren't invading. They've been invited."

It IS a self-inflicted wound, but illegals have NOT been invited. They know our immigration policy, they know they have to sneak past border patrols. Once in the country they know they have to obtain false identification. If I'm invited to a party, I don't have to sneak in the side entrance and avoid being seen by the host.

The vast majority of Americans want to keep out those who refuse to go through the immigration process. The only ones doing the "inviting," if you can call it that, are unscrupulous business owners who exploit the low-wage opportunity and corrupt politicians who refuse to do what's necessary to protect the people they're supposed to represent.

Congressman Tom Tancredo

'Bush doesn't think America should be an actual place'

Tancredo says president believes nation should be merely 'idea' without borders

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53023

BrianR
My post was also removed. I posted complaining about Josue (Jose')is unfit to be a TH monitor and said I will do all I can to get him/her removed from TH. And I doubt this post will remain.

GiveMeLiberty wrote:
"I did not say the 9-11 mass murderers were "immigrants". I wrote they were "illegal aliens"."

What you wrote earlier was:

"All the Sept 11 mass-murderers were illegal aliens, in the USA BECUASE NOBODY ENFORCED THE IMMIGRATION LAWS!!!!!"

Since the 9/11 terrorists were NOT immigrants and they ENTERED America LEGALLY...what does the 9/11 terrorist have to do with immigrants that enter America illegally? (Which duh, was kind of the topic here) And how would enforcing the immigration laws stop students coming here on TEMPORARY school visas?

The 9/11 commission report that you quote: "All the hijackers whose visa applications we reviewed arguably could have been denied visas because their applications were not filled out completely. Had State visa officials routinely had a practice of acquiring more information in such cases, they likely would have found more grounds for denial."

Ah--did you understand that "arguably could have been denied" meant that someone could have taken the opposite position and ARGUED that the visas could NOT have been denied. And the "had State Visa officials routinely had a practice" meant that the practice did not exist nor was it "routine". Oh and let's not forget the word "likely" which means it "may or may not" have been grounds for denial, not a guarantee mind you, but definitely leaning toward the "may."

GML...besides changing your handle, I suggest you don't try word games with me...you are way out of your league.

New blog essay
on this topic and Navarette.

ANY COUNTRY
that refuses to enforce its sovereignty and borders from mass illegal incursions isn't going to last very long.



Today's news: Saudi Arabia is building a 550 mile long, $26 billion, fence along its borders.

Enough said?

Jerubaal: You're too kind
Giving the benefit of the doubt to Navarette and his ilk when they call those opposed to illegal aliens "racist" simply lends credence to their position by not calling them on the ad hominem nature of the charge.

They can't win on the facts, so they try to obfuscate by resorting to ad hominem attacks and diversionary arguments.

Bottom line: Illegal aliens are criminals.

Hey, Solar
Your above post, to which you referred, IS missing.

Maybe they did finally get the message.

This guy's just got to GO!

missed a word
And we're getting ready to KICK these illegal b*tts out of this country.

He's right
"Get it right. This is a self-inflicted wound."

And so is the cure to get it right by stopping the crossing of illegals into our country.

Nice try dude, but you've made the mistake of thinking that the United States doesn't take responsibility for it's choices. We do.

We made the mistake of giving amnesty in 1986 and not enforcing illegal immigration from that point forward.

We made the mistake of hiring illegals and not having our enforcement of laws that were already on the books to penalize those employers who did.

We made the mistake of not building a fence to keep these illegals out of the country.

But get ready.

We're building the wall.

And we're getting ready to these illegal b*tts out of this country.

We've made mistakes; we own the problem, we are the solution. Hope your papers are in order, we'll be visiting you next.

MyOpine
GOOD idea.

102, please read 9-11 Commission Report.
Immigration enforcement is the responsibility of the Federal Gov't. It simply is not being done.

This is why Cities and Counties are trying to stand in the gap.

I did not say the 9-11 mass murderers were "immigrants". I wrote they were "illegal aliens".

The Sept 11 hijackers gamed the system, they concealed their travels to terrorist nations, etc.

They were quite cunning, we were inexcusably lazy.

Regarding visa status, check your info.
Please read the 9-11 Commision report, page 564.

"All the hijackers whose visa applications we reviewed arguably could have been denied visas because their applications were not filled out completely. Had State visa officials routinely had a practice of acquiring more information in such cases, they likely would have found more grounds for denial."

Therefore, the "legal visa" that you claim for them, was simply a fraud. A fraud accomplished because immigration laws were not followed, applications not reviewed.

And, you do not deny the President Bush's administration stopped enforcing immigration laws. Former President Clinton did a lot more enforcement than G.W. Bush.

We have this problem becuase of "no enforcement" of immigration laws. Can you argue against that fact?

Your sophomoric attempts to insult (give my brains) simply make me laugh.

Sandman...
Townhall has got about 20 people spouting the illegal immigration con...people who KNOW how business is run and how this government is run--and SHOULD know better.

But because they have one person with a little sanity...you automatically jump to the conclusion that Townhall is in the pocket of illegals?


Let's hurry up Amnesty!
On the Drudge Report I just heard a recording of Charles Wrangle saying he will bring back the Draft.

We don't need to send them back to Mexico.
We can send them to Iraq.

GiveMeLiberty
Are you an idiot? The 9/11 terrorist came here on LEGAL, L-E-G-A-L visas. NONE, ZERO, ZIP were immigrants. They weren't even Mexican.

Please change your handle to GiveMeBrains.

Geez.

You know, really, this kind of stupidity is really annoying. We are at WAR...this is serious business people...PLEASE do not waste time and energy mouthing off on things you obviously didn't make the simpliest attempt to learn the facts about.

Follow the money
One can only assume by Townhalls's inexplicable support for lawlessness in the form of illegal aliens, that they must be in the pocket of powerful business interests who profit from low-cost labor. I wonder if there is any way to find out who the big contributors to TH are? It wouldn't suprise me to see their donor rolls populated by agri-business, hotel and restaurant chains, the construction trades and the other industries that profit from illegal labor. Judging from the noticeable changes that have taken place at TH over the past two years, I suspect that TH has succumbed to the same malady that afflicts the Beltway GOP mandarins. In other words, they appear to have sold their philosophical souls, in the pursuit of power and money.

DavidM...a dishonest "Conservative"
"Nothing will ever change unless we all vote for third party candidates and kick out the Democrats AND Republicans who obviously have no intention of ever enforcing immigration laws as presently written!"

In other words, you want Republicans to WASTE their vote on Losertarians and 3rd party wannabes.

People like you are lower than the Dems--at least they don't pretend to support the Republican party--while using them for political purposes and stabbing in them in the back.

THIS is the deception that turned off the Independents and caused the Republican party to lose the majority...the smell of betrayal reeks.

Ruben - here is why we're mad
All the Sept 11 mass-murderers were illegal aliens, in the USA BECUASE NOBODY ENFORCED THE IMMIGRATION LAWS!!!!!

Ruben is right - all the immigration laws are dishonest. There is no desire to enforce.

Now hear this! Now hear this!
President Bush abolished even the token efforts of the previous administration to enforce immigration laws.

Do you understand that?

President Bush has absolutely abolished any enforcement of immigration laws.

Therefore, all the efforts of any town, county, or state are in vain.

President Bush is the problem.

And the voters took it out on those who are percieved as near him.

The reason we are all ticked off about this is the fact that all the Sept 11 mass-murderers were illegal aliens, in the USA BECUASE NOBODY ENFORCED THE IMMIGRATION LAWS!!!!!

MyOpine writes: Enforce Laws?
"All we need to do is sue the State Legislators for enforcement."
*********************************

I only wish we could!

It would probably end up in the 9th Circuit court of appeals. Egad!

Speaking of California courts, have you heard of the $2,000,000+ awarded by the Los Angeles City Douncil to the Fireman who had a couple of spoons of dogfood mixed into his spagetti as a prank. They didn't let it go to court out of fear it would cost the city $5,000,000.

That's more than a million per ounce. What am I investing in gold for?

And how about those poor cops trying to do their jobs who are getting videotaped by Leftie activists who are trying to further emasculate law enforcement in Los Angeles.

I am really thinking about moving to Montana.

DavidM
you really have got to grow up. Honestly. I already said that I agreed with the 5 year moratorium and that it has worked. This has zero to do with the bashing of the poor that you hard liners did prior to the Welfare reform--and what you are doing NOW with immigration.

Both issues made not a wit of difference to the hard working people at the bottom of the rung.

And I agree, you and I can't discuss this because you cannot connect the dots. You live in a world of should haves, instead of what really is.

And you know who lives there too? Liberals who demand a world of peace and equality without considering the cost...and teenagers who think their parents are there to make them happy. Neither group cares what sacrifices have to be made or that radical change sometimes require time and hard work. They want their utopia and they want it NOW.

As for PC...I have never kow towed to PC...not even the so called Conservative political correctness...which is another reason why you and I can never have a conversation...you do and won't give it up.

Bring up elected officials on charges...
...of dereliction of duty, whenever they refuse to enforce the laws of the cities, states and nation. Hound the illegals out of city and state in this country. Make them so unwelcome they leave. If a business competitor employs illegals, report them, or better yet, sue them for illegal business practices. When a supposedly conservative website conspires/sells out to the illegal alien lobby by publishing leftist propaganda - BOYCOTT IT!

Is this guy Ruben for real?
Ruben has touted the illegal alien line. First off the English as official language laws are not anti immigrant in the least. In my family there are people come from other countries representing 4 different language groups. Guess what? Everyone speaks English. The laws are geared towards official business. Consider that it is very apparent that there is a concerted effort to accomodate hispanics. I don't see signs in Chinese, Russian, Uru, German, Gaelic, or Polish. What's up? Also, my solution to this problem is a balanced enforcement. We need to hit the employers, the organizations that engage in conspiracies to violate laws (such as CASA, LA RAZA, and the ACLU). We need to start taking down the employers, seizing assets, and handing out jail sentences to those that break the law. These municipalities are trying to survive. They cannot sustain an onslaught of people from anywhere with their hands out. We are already facing a medial crisis. These people get medical treatment that is not paid for by them or any type of insurance. When my family members came to this country they had to wait and go through the system. The hispanics in particular and jumping the line. When they do get here they drive without license or insurance. The ones that are licensed in Maryland do not have to meet all the requirements that the rest of us have to. They are not required to provide proof of identification. If you are not an illegal you have to provide such proof. These breaks are for the hispanics in particular.

How do we prevent illegal immigration?
For starters, lets get rid of all the political power whores who pass themselves off as "Our Leaders." Nothing will ever change unless we all vote for third party candidates and kick out the Democrats AND Republicans who obviously have no intention of ever enforcing immigration laws as presently written! It has to start somewhere. The next election will be a good time to start for those who haven't voted for third party candidates! The alternative would be to drag all the politicians out into the streets and hang them all from lamp posts!

Navarrette
I would say to Mr. Navarrette that he is part of the problem, not the solution.

If Mexican-Americans like Mr. Navarette, who have a public forum to speak to people, would use that opportunity to discourage coming to America illegally, maybe to offer assistance in the form of some kind of insturction on how to do it legally, wouldn't he be doing the people coming here and his own country, more good.

Making English our official language is not anti-foreigner, it is pro-American, and that is what everyone who wants to live here should be.

Do the consequences of doing something illegal apply only to real Americans?

sanity102
You may not be an idiot, but you have me fooled.

There is no 'vitriol' for poor people. Unless you consider not
1. Raising them up to some high standard for being poor.
2. Asking they quit living off the taxpayers.
3. Subsidizing them to stay in the situation they are in.
4. Destroying the family unit(getting married might mean no more benefits)

Not to mention that being poor SHOULD SUCK, THATS HOW YOU MAKE LESS PEOPLE POOR.

Negative actions should promote negative consequences. This is how human beings progress..they try to make a better life for themselves.

Of course I can't get this into your head, so much PC gobbledygook in there it wont fit.

Some Questions for Navarrette
Do you believe in the rule of law? Should the U.S. enforce its legally enacted laws? Do you believe that any country has a right to determine who may enter it from outside, and under what conditions? Do you believe that because someone may be found in a community that is willing to conspire with illegals for profit that law-abiding citizens lose, by default, their right to insist upon the lawful enforcement of its laws? Do you believe that anyone on this planet who wishes to take up residence, commerce, or political causes in Mexico has a moral entitlement to enter that country, regardless of any laws to the contrary, and the expressed opinions of the Mexican citizenry? Is it morally wrong to support a single official language in any given country? Is it not reasonable to expect that those who willingly enter another country, bear some responsibility to accomodate themselves to the prevailing language, values and customs of their host? Do you believe it is advisable for a stable, successful and free country to remake itself to suit the personal interests and opinions of illegal aliens from failed third world nations who have no direct knowledge or experience of their own in how to build or maintain a successful country? If the people of Mexico were permitted to dictate to the U.S. how it should run itself, would it be unreasonable to expect that eventually the U.S. would resemble Mexico? Given that the people of Mexico are so hell-bent on getting out of Mexico, why would any sane American want to give serious consideration to the demands of the leaders of that failed country, the law-breakers who sneak into this country from there, or the people in this country who believe those people can show us a better way of conducting our affairs? Just curious.

If Townhall Thinks Running This Will
make us less anti-illegal-immigration, it's sadly mistaken. This guy just ticks us off.

Josue
If you give Navarette the benefit of the doubt, you're right - he doesn't take a position on immigration. However, by calling anti-illegal alien folks racists, he gives a very strong impression that he doesn't like their agenda - stopping the millions of illegal aliens - one bit. He also separates himself from them, indicating he is not one of them, by insulting them with such blanket statements.

Therefore, we can reasonably know that Navarette is in favor of illegal immigration, because he is not against it, because he calls those against it racists.

Navarrette is Anti-American
He does not support our democratic form of governance; He does not support the rule of U.S. law; He does not see anything in this country worth preserving from a traditional cultural perspective. Like many of his divided-loyalty brethren, to him the U.S. is something to be exploited for people and purposes other than those who embrace the ideas enumerated above. He has objectives and an agenda which put him crosswise with the defenders of American ideals. His only interest in these ideals is how he can twist them for his purposes. Hence, the only time he invokes them is when attempting to cast their defenders in unflattering and hypocritical ways. Part of the price we pay for our freedoms in this country is that those who wish to destroy us are allowed wide latitude in being able to prosecute their nefarious schemes. But that doesn't mean people with a choice must continually subject themselves to such sniveling and destructive snotrags as Navarrette.

Navarrette is a real piece of work
This man is repugnant. He offers no positive rationale for why illegal aliens should be allowed to come and go as they please, regardless of the law. Instead, and in typical leftist fashion, he chooses to slander his opponents and their motives. As a law-abiding citizen of the United States, I have no need to defend for the likes of him (or Presidente Fox) our laws, the democratic process by which they are enacted, or my insistence that they be enforced. People who are in this country illegally have no entitlement to jobs, housing, education or social services - period.

Navarrette points out the obvious fact that there are people in this country who profit from the presence of illegals, as if that somehow makes all U.S. citizens complicit in a great hypocritical deceit. By extension of that rationale, all U.S. citizens must also be complicit in the drug-dealing and prostituion trades just because there are other people here who profit from it as well.

I am sick of listening to the slander being served up by the likes of Senior Navarrette and those who provide them with a platform for disseminating their hateful bile. This includes Townhall as well. For whatever reason, Townhall has elected to stake its standing in the conservative community by siding with those who mock this nation's right to enforce its national sovereignty and the rule of law. By doing so, it causes thoughtful people to question Townhall's own agenda and motives, and not just on the issue of illegal immigration, but on every issue on which it takes a position.

If Navarrette represents the future of Townhall's banner carriers, I think it might be time to look for a less compromised source of conservative discourse, because this one is seriously conflicted.




Old Mexico
Mexico has as many natural resources as the U.S., they have oil, minerals and vast agricultural possibilities. Why don't the Mexican immigrants, both legal and illegal, stay in Mexico and change the Mexican government? A good revolution is in order, use your energies changing from within Mexico instead of coming here and trying to change the U.S.

tara...
"Not one of those 9/11 terrorist were born citizens" but every one of them entered America on LEGAL VISAS. LEGAL...and how many of them were illegal Mexicans? That's right...zero.

If you are really serious about national security Tara, first get your facts straight, then take a good look at why you are passionately demanding a wall to the South when all intelligence, not to mention Common Sense says that the threat is from Liberal Canada.




tara
No Welfare Recipients were the focus of vitriolic hatred BEFORE the 5 year moratorium.

Why do those of you that have class envy for the poor believe that if you get "rid" of these people, somehow YOUR life is going to get better? Employers who cannot afford to pay Americans the $10-$15 an hour they think they deserve, isn't going to do so just because there are no illegals to take the job. They will simply go out of business--and an America that cannot compete against cheap labor China will lose it's economical superiority--and with that their freedom.

My problem is that the people, like you, who are mouthing solutions, aren't connecting the dots. You may be the "base", but you aren't the majority, which is why the GOP lost. The illegal immigration issue may the most important to YOU, but it isn't to the majority.

As for the lesson...Tara...did you REALLY vote Democrat? Or did you hold your nose and voted for Republicans anyway...or wasted your vote and voted Libertarian? Either way...what "lesson" learned was there wasn't enough of "you" to teach any lesson at all.

Hey Navarrette!
The funny thing is,your audience can't read your drivle,they don't speak english.
So why are you here?
This is a waste of my time.
Later

Josue.townhall.com
So, are you agreeing that current immigration laws that are already in place need be enforced?

By the way, thanks for your past help keeping those of us that have been previously blocked from TH before to still be able to participate and contribute to Town Hall discussions.

hntr admin
http://www.headsneedtoroll.org



NaBLAHrrete
Here NaBLAHrrete goes again. As if the American people are so naive as to believe that ilelgal Mexicans are coming because they reveive a letter of invitation to the ranchos in MICHOACAN, SINALOA, ZACATECAS OR JALISCO from American citizens. I demand NaBLAHrrete to provide names and address of those who are sending letters of invitation to Mexicans to come illegally to California. We want to know. If NaBLAHrrete is really serious about immigration he better stop BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, and do something serious in this matter.
NaBLAHrrete says that the measure of banning Landlords of renting illegal immigrants are “dishonest,” “misdirect,” and “destined to fail.” He does not understand that the issue of illegal immigration is that it is ILLEGAL. Therefore, if the Federal government is inefficient to deal with this issue directly, then the problem must be solved at a local level. NaBLAHrrete better stop playing dumb in this issue. There is absolutely nothing dishonest in passing measures at local level against the invasion of illegal Mexicans. One of the ways to deal is to punish financially those Americans who are making money at expenses of the need of these illegal immigrants. They are part of the problem too.
NaBLAHrrete says if the people have problems with immigration “let them target it head-on.” And that is exactly what these cities are doing. Escondido and Hazelton are dealing with this illegal problem head on. This is just the beginning. What happens is that NaBLAHrrete seems to enjoy that immigration is not doing its job.
He continued saying that making English the official language is the product of “nativists.” The question is, what is wrong with that? However, NaBLAHrrete failed miserably to understand that it is not about being “nativist” but protect the identity of America. Making the English the official language of the nation would force legal immigrants to learn English and thus to assimilate to the culture of this country. What happen is that NaBLAHrrete is afraid that he won’t listen anymore to “Los Tigres del Norte” in Spanish. In other words, Navarrete is pure and simple BLAH, BLAH, & BLAH, Comprende amigo?

To: Sanity102
So......expecting people to get off of welfare after 5 years is how you would define "vitriolic hatred". I think I know what your problem is. You think that anybody who has a different solution than you do to a problem is guilty of "vitriolic hatred".

And the elections were about Republicans realizing that their leadership was failing them and playing games and a revolt against the leadership is the only way to send a strong message. The Republicans were given a chance to fix the illegal immigration problem and they squandered it. When the Democrats fail also and give us even more illegal immigration, there will be a revolt against them to in the next mid-term elections. Eventually these out of touch elected officials will figure it out.

To: Sanity102.
When the next terrorist attack occurs, it will no doubt be because even after 911, we have not secured our borders and still do not have control over who enters our country illegally. Or it might be because we've continued to let in hundreds of thousands of immigrants from countries that sponsor and support terrorism. Not one of those terrorists from 911 were American born citizens. Those out there that are willing to see many more people killed in the next attack are willing because they are too self-interested and short-sighted to care about their fellow Americans and must believe that it won't happen to them.

Illegals and free social services
I'm truely amazed that any illegals are provided with free government services.

My daughter returned to the United States after many years residing in Finland where she taught at university. She married a Finish boy and they produced four beautiful children.

Prior to being his being admitted to the U.S.; I was required to execute documents pledging to accept financial responsibility for my son-in-law, should he become indigent. I believe this obligation extends for a period of ten years from the date he entered the country.

By the way, Finnish students must study a second language, either Swedish or English, to graduate from school.

Do Mexican schools teach a mandatory second language to all sutdents?

Juxtapose these differences with the treatment and unearned priviledges expected by both the legal and illegal immigrants from south of the border.

One language, for one people. This is the "United" States of America, not the divided or Balkanized States of america.

Not everyone is stuck on stupid
and MOST voters aren't as easily conned as the hard liners (as proven by the latest mid term elections.) Not since the vitriolic hatred displayed toward those on Welfare before the 5 year moratorium went into effect (late 90s) has one class of people been targeted for scorn.

Navarrette is correct, this is done primarily because this group is at the lower end of the social hierachy and have very little power.

Employers are a different story...to those who depend on them for contributions and to those who depend on them for their town's economy. And unless this factor can be negated, the immigration problem will never be resolved.

This is such a COMMON SENSE basic fact that the only way that the hard liners can hold on to their illusions is to scream louder and make threats.

What really gets me besides their apparant inability to connect the dots is that we cannot afford this frustration, not while we are at WAR...if and when the bomb hits, thousands die, and our economy tanks as it did after 9/11, who among the hard liners are going to come forward and say...we have to focus on the illegal immigration issue...make english the only language...fine landlords...protect jobs and culture?

The Laura Ingrahams and all the border fanatics will be like the Libs after 9/11 that took to praying and lighting candles...they will finally put aside their petty demands for a Conservative Utopia and focusing on the issues that CANNOT wait, like the war against those that wish to kill us.

To her and all on the immigration bashers, I think it's time they asked themselves why...why will it take a tragedy before you guys realize that the real strength of the United States lies in the word "UNITED".

Naverrette -- Boy, can you Call it!
Your predictions to angry letters was the understatement of the month!

I will only say that I believe English should be the "official" language in terms of Official Legal dealings. E.g., ballots should be in English. Legally binding contracts should be in English.

Other than that, whatever anybody speaks on their own time is up to them. If Home Depot wants to have signs directing people to the "Madera", that's fine with me.

Ruben, well said!
He didn't say anything in favor or against illegal immigration -- he said these sort of local laws are not effective. At the end, these sort of anti-immigrant measures muddle the waters on the real issue--lax border security, and poor enforcement of our current laws. The real problem is in the unethical behavior of so many employers, who instead of advocating for improvements in our guest labor process, bypass the system entirely, and promote illegal immigration.

The ultimate victims are the illegal-immigrants--living breathing fathers and mothers and children--that get trapped in the convoluted mess politicians have made, on BOTH sides of the border. I am not condoning illegal immigration--I CONDEMN IT. I am saying, if we want solutions, lets be honest and real about this and do the right thing. Feel good, nonsense ordinances only serve to inflame the passions of the wrong kind of people and serve no purpose.

http://josue.townhall.com

re: Mr. Navarrette's article

Our best bet to straighten out the issue of this invasion of illegal immigrants working in our country is to enforce the laws we already have.

Employers have clear direction in this matter and it is therefore their responsibility to be vigilent in shifting out those who have legitimate work visas vs those who don't.

In all countries including Mexico this is not unusual nor is it questioned.
Only here in America are we constantly questioned about our motives when it comes to securing our borders or asking for legitimate "papers".
The fact that Americans are 1st and 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants themselves is irrelevant to the issue of who has a proper work visa or not.

We have the right to secure our borders, with a fence with the military, with any means that we choose to.
It is clear that Americans want their borders secure against those who want to break our laws, by coming over the borders without proper papers (drug dealers, criminals, workers, terrorist)

I want to know why we as America, USA, have to answer to those who are not here legally?
Since when do criminals have any right to question when they have done the crime?

Secure our borders.
Convict the employers who violate the law in this matter.
Make the process of work visas more efficient so that we can have worker's that are needed in certain industries.

That's all i have to say
S

Cynthia tucker sells-out African America
http://www.controlcongress.com

Cynthia used her voice today, at the Atlanta Journal Constitutional editorial page to rant about anyone who dares attempts to enforce our immigration laws. Her article used stereo types and no facts to support that our economy would collapse without an unlimited supply of illegal immigrants. Even the most liberal open border economist like Paul Krugman admits that illegal immigration is a drain on our economy.

Cynthia lets talk about facts. African Americans have been the biggest victims of illegal immigration and many do not support the open border-Amnesty immigration policy that you promote. Read for yourself.

WASHINGTON — Frank Morris has been outraged as he has watched leaders in the African American community stand arm-in-arm with Latino groups in support of immigrant rights.

Morris, the former director of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation, a retired college professor and a current board member of the Center for Immigration Studies, said immigrants compete directly for jobs with African Americans, driving down wages and working conditions while in the country illegally.

“As long as there is an available labor supply, (immigrants) will be preferred to African Americans,” Morris said. “Employers prefer illegal immigrants because they can be exploited without any recourse.”

Robert Brown, an Emory University professor who studies African American politics, said many blacks are “less than sympathetic” to the plight of immigrants. Although many aren’t willing to speak publicly on the issue for fear of angering Latinos, a peek inside the editorial pages of African American newspapers, glimpses into town hall meetings and a look at national polls all indicate that many black Americans are uneasy about supporting immigrant rights.

Do you think Cynthia is an elitist selling-out hard working families by her support for open borders?


I think the next time..
...we see a column by Navarrette we contact the sponsors of Townhall.com and Mr. Hewitt's radio program to vent our displeasure. Hit'em in the pocketbook.

By the way, is this an open invitation to Navarrette's home to raid his fridge? Surely, there's no fences or locks on the doors.

marine
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org

If there are any among us who "doubt" visit this site! Thanks for sharing.

I agree with all above posts...let's get the rules on the books enforced IMMEDIATELY!!!

The English language.
The English language is the native tongue of the world's largest body of literature and philsophy.
Our notion of democracy is English in origin. Our greatest workd of literature -- Twain, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Chopin, Faulkner, Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, etc are all English language. All the world's primarily English-speaking countries are successful. I'm afraid that an Arbusto(Bush)-Pelosi amnesty would cause only civil strife.

Jdw
Great point. Not even to mention that the same success is replicated everywhere else the Anglo-Saxons went - Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and of course, Britain.

Am I leaving one out? Yes, South Africa. They blew it, but it wasn't the Anglo-Saxons that did it. It was the people they previously displaced.

Grumpy
Not only that, but official English is simply not anti-foreigner. Unless of course New Zealand, Canada, Australia, South Africa, and the U.K. are domestic.

Dreamer
You're incorrect. Schlessinger never gets any comments.

Enforce Laws?
California State Constitution, Art. III, Sect.6,
(B)States "English as the Official Language of California.
English is the official language of the State of California."

This means ALL of this multi-lingual ballots and driver's tests etc., is UNLAWFUL.

All we need to do is sue the State Legislators for enforcement.
Paragraph (C) explains how but is a little long.


Article? PEW!

Two Points...
In rereading Navarette's drivel, and the responding comments, two historic facts kept popping into my mind:

Who was present at the creation of A) the Declaration of Independence and B) the Constitutional Convention?

The country was formed by Anglo-saxon males, it inherited the culture and customs of Anglo-saxon males, and was, for the better part of its history, controlled by Anglo-saxon males. Considering what this country has accomplished, in a *wilderness*, one has to be a complete idiot to continue thinking that all cultures are equal, and that the country will continue as well under a "multicultural" or (more likely) an hispanic culture.

The 2nd thought was that 145 years ago, Bush-style Republicans pushed a large portion of the nation to split off, and then went to war, crushing them mercilessly, because they advocated slavery.... at the *same time* Union industrialists were employing *children* at starvation wages under inhuman conditions, many of them the children of immigrants, in northern factories. "Slavery" is terrible, but wage-slavery is Just Good Business. There is no difference if the slavery is enforced by the sting of the master's whip, or the sting of an empty belly.

Shush up
It seems to me that a successful column generates a huge response via comments made. This column as of now has over 70. TH probably views this as a successful column that generates interest, albeit negative.

If you want to engage Navarettes ideas, read his column and respond/rebuke/whatever. If you want him to go away, don't read it, ('cause then you can't resist responding/rebuking/whatever.)

No click-throughs, no comments, no check-marks, no interest at all = failed columnist.

Jordin Paulder, aged 9

abject failure of mexico
When is the door going to open to the South? Last I checked Mexico is quite emphatic that spanish is the official language there. Awesome resources in that country and all they produce themselves is garbage. The few good things have a great deal of foreign investment and oversight. Every time it rains SOCAL everything from sewage to dead bodies float down the Tijuana river into Imperial Beach, CA polluting our beaches and draggin in the stench of Mexico. They have been around longer but their experiment failed. The corrupt spanish+catholic culture cannot operate. I am not opposed to those things individually but put together and you get a failed stinking mess. Look around the world wherever those 2 things were involved together and you have corrupt failure. Funny thing, Spain for the most part does OK on it's own, just the former colonies can't seem to figure it out. My opinion is that we copy exactly what the Mexican immigration and border control policies are for ourselves with regard to Mexico. When somebody trys to call racism or some other PC baloney - Hey we are enforcing the same laws they do.

another anchor baby/govt employee/
citizens voter/columnist.

The guy is still pissed about his low life family having to pick grapes for living.

If Illegals are a "Self-Inflicted Wound"
does that mean that you shouldn't treat it?

And, even if I grant you the point that some "were invited", that doesn't address the sheer number of illegals. Did we really invite people to sneak into this country so that they could huddle outside Dunkin' Donuts and Home Depot? What fools we must be!

If I invite you to my daughter's wedding, does that automatically mean that you can bring your uninvited friends and relatives with you? And ,when you do, then I must provide them with food and drink at the wedding to which they were not invited? And if I refues, you will brand me as racist, right? (Now that I think about it, perhaps I won't invite you in the first place!)

I agree with several other posters (and you, Mr. Navarrette) that the landlord crackdown approach is probably not the best. But I think that you should agree with me that the majority of posters on TH are in favor of nailing the employers...to the point where the fines are draconian, in order to rescind the "invitation". So, admit that the TH posters are not supporting the employers in this argument, either.

The illegal argument seems to be that there is strength in numbers....if enough of us make it to the US then it is impossible for you to do anything about us. I say dry up the jobs, dry up the benefits and "we don't need no stinkin' border fence".

Finally, I don't think that this is about immigrants, despite the way the left (and Jorge Bush) frame the argument. Scratch any American deeply enough and you'll find an immigrant.....it's simply about legality.

Just say it. "I'm a racist & Mexcian...
Just say it. "I'm a racist & Mexican nationalist" I favor foreign invasion of my own country, I support a global corporate government, I support lower wages for everyone, I support 9 trillion federal debt ($9,000,000,000,000.00) and growing it bigger, I support global warming and gridlock, income redistribution, I'm a Mexican.


Immigration not a green or none issue
There has to be an alternative middle ground between the two extremes-sending everyone back, or just ignoring the problem. Annexation of Mexico is definitely the most likely to benefit most concerned parties in the long run, but also the least probable.

Can't we start off by finding out who all is here and where? The only reason these people are "undocumented" is because we only deal with one type of documentation-the green card.

Let's create a new, transitory documentation and we'll start to at least get a handle on this problem.

Maybe the solution is...
...to forbid the remittance of money out of the country by those who are here without documentation.

Let's face it, the reason Vicente Fox, et al, do everything they can to persuade the U.S. to let in the flood of Mexican citizens is because they're too lazy (and probably on the take from their elites) to do the necessary things that will enable their economies to improve to our level of competence. They depend on the flow of remittances for the cash to keep their economies from completely collapsing.

Another solution is simply to annex Mexico (although that's going to go over like a lead balloon on this website, of course). Some would say that's what President Bush is already trying to do. But look at it this way, if we annexed Mexico, and replaced its constitution with ours (and then went back to a strict constructionist view of it, with solid enforcement), then all the citizens of Mexico would become legal immigrants. Also, because the federal government of Mexico would disappear, we could de-nationalize Pemex and the other resource companies, and all the tax revenue going to Mexico City would go to Washington, DC, instead. Since all the citizens of Mexico would then have to pay taxes on the remittance money, and our southern border would vanish, we--and they--would all benefit.

Of course, we would have to educate all the formerly Mexican citizens about the history of the U.S. and the requirements for citizenship--but we should be doing that for all of our existing citizens anyway, since so many of them never learned it in school. It wouldn't hurt all of us to learn the history of Mexico, either, or Spanish as a second language while we insist they learn English as a second language.

Yes, this does mean that in the short (and probably the long) run, the Democrats will probably regain total control of government--but look at it this way. Since they absolutely hate capitalism and want communism, with its "centrally" planned economy, the relatively vibrant economy we enjoy now will go down the tubes and eliminate any advantage to the illegal immigrants. They'll have to stay home and try to make their own economies work.

Will it happen? Of course not. I just proposed it to lighten the mood a bit.

The real problem is still the fact that we're so stupid as to have a minimum wage. Now, of course, the Democrats and the unions want to bump it up further.

Oh well.

Just Enforce The Law! PLEASE!
That's all I ask!

...and I want to take this opportunitely to plug my newest post on my blog called "Lefties Use Babies as Political Footballs…Again."

It is all about Lefties Gone Wild.

Drop by and visit!

Official English
"Official English laws are anti-foreigner, plain and simple."

No, official English laws are pro-assimilation, but since that's something only legal immigrants are interested in I can see why you're not.

hey ruben
What other laws are we allowed to break?
Should we just come ask you when we aren't sure?

Whats wrong with English? If it is no better than Spanish why is it such an issue to ask people to learn it. When in Rome...

Is it not illegal to benefit from commission of a crime? Do you believe this doesn't apply to businesses and consumers too?

What cultural aspects do you believe 'immigrants' should be asked to adopt in entering our country?
Do you not see that THESE CULTURAL ASPECTS are what makes the country worth coming to, even illegally?

Have you asked Parisans what they think of unfettered immigration policies?

You're correct, I TOTALLY DISAGREE!!!
You are absolutely correct, I TOTALLY DISAGREE with you! Further, I whole heartily applaud those communities efforts to protect themselves, along with their safety, and the quality of their lifestyles, from an invasion of illegals consuming taxpayer provided entitlements and stressing their educational and health-care systems to the point failure, as well as depressing wages in several occupations.
Something has to be done locally to curb the unrestrained invasion the federal government refuses to address.
An analogy can be drawn from physics, as well as economics, using the concepts of pressure differentials. There needs to be an equalization of the pressure differential cross borders. That can be a lessening of the pressure to cross over into the U.S. as a result of better conditions in the country of origin. That is the preferential way, but completely outside the local communities sphere of control. Or, there needs to be an increase of pressure, and discomfort, within the U.S. against those coming in illegally applied through a multiplicity of channels. When people no longer perceive a benefit of illegally coming into the U.S. from what they have, where they are, they will no longer make the attempt to do so, and hopefully make the effort to improve the situation where they are. They are simply taking the 'easy-way-out' so to speak by coming to the U.S. illegally. Notice also how many time I have referred to their crossing as illegal? That's because it is!!! The U.S. has a 'right' to control who enters it's borders, as do all sovereign countries.
Your argument makes since ONLY if the attempts to stop the illegal invasion is done so half-heartily. If illegals receive NO benefits, ie. health-care (except for critical emergency care), no educational, no housing or work, the problem of illegal invasion stops.
I am not against legal immigration, but it must be controlled, knowing who is coming in and what contribution they bring. I welcome them, and I truly mean that. In fact, I think if done properly it is of great benefit to the U.S. and consider it even necessary. But not the illegal invasion that is taking place.
Have a nice day,
MkWess
Wichita, KS

Gordon
"Symbolism over Substance
Escondido’s city council is just posturing for the press coverage. Their ordinance makes landlords collect copies of the fake documents they are offered, just as employers do now – probably with similar effect. Plus, enforcement is blocked by a court’s Temporary Restraining Order."

People are just fed up with the lack of action on behalf of their elected reps. in Washington.

Would you call the Minute Men
"Symbolism over Substance" ?
If so' I commend them for their "Symbolism"
I wish I could go to the border and help..

Roger Berry
There is one difference. 12 million uninvited mexicans is a thousand infantry divisions equivalent. Have there ever been that many tank divisions in human history?

Focus on the real discrimination
Ruben,

I only went to a state university, but if I had written an article like this in one of my classes, I would have been lucky to get a D. Do you ever stop and wonder whose spot you took to get into Harvard or to get your current job, with the guaranty of lifetime employment no matter how marginal your abilities? You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. (You will probably construe that to be a racist comment, but I won't pander to your fragile sensitivities.)

Let's talk about the two classes of people who ARE the possibly the MOST discriminated against (and each group includes Hispanics) - the immigrants that are LEGALLY trying to come here who have done, and are doing EVERYTHING legally but who are being delayed because of the siphoning of resources caused by the illegal immigrants and those peoples whose pay is held at artificially low levels or who are not employed at all because the employers can hire illegals and pay them much less. Of course, this does not include the group that is the MOST discriminated against - the legal American taxpayer.

illegal
I'm an American. I love my country and anybody on
this planet is welcome to come here and become------- an American.But that's not what we want for
mexican immigrants what is wanted by you (and all those that somehow try to rationalize why American taxpayers should continue to pay for and
finance all the things most of us have worked for
like health care and the birth of our children)is
to continue to exploit the illegal mexican immigrant for their willingness to provide cheap
labor. Our governments failure to enforce our laws is not a matter of compassion but nothing more than institutional racism. How so? Plain and
simple: lets let a bunch of mexicans come here they work cheap. Language? Apparently our government feels mexicans our too stupid to learn English because in the history of our country they are the only ethnic group to be accomadated in their own language. Textbooks and everything else that's printed is now in both English and Spanish. Are they too stupid to learn English? No. This is a racist attitude intended to prevent assimilation. Why? Because
our government wants mexican immigrants to stay
mexican and illegal so that they can continue to be exploited. Enforcing laws at the local level is the right thing to do. Yes, it's uncomfortable
and it looks racist but it's not. Most Americans do not want the illegal mexican immigrant here and that's a hard truth to accept. What enforcement will do (and this is why you,Ruben, should support it), is eventually provide what is
truly the right thing to do for our mexican brothers: a legitmate opportunity for the American dream, something they can't have with their current status. American citizenship has to be earned. Illegal immigration has to stop because the exploitation has to stop and strict enforcement is the way.

ONE THING IS RIGHT HERE
The laws regarding illegal entry into the United States ARE ALREADY ON THE BOOKS!
Laws against hiring illegal aliens are ALREADY ON THE BOOKS!

Why do the politicians think we need NEW laws? It is a stalling tactic. To go through the motions of lawmaking can take years, if done 'right'. To enforce existing laws takes a telephone and 2 minutes talking to INS.

They are stroking you! They will continue stroking you until there are NO borders, NO jobs and NO Southwestern United States.

They think you are stupid and they are giving you a diversionary move. Kinda like a magician at a kid's birthday party.

Nativeist, I
It looks like I’m going to have to more “anti”, “ism” and “ist” labels to those psycho-babble terms used to describe my behavior, being a “nativeist” now.

I spent the first ten years of my life living in San Diego, ending in 1966. From age six to ten, we had a Mexican national come across the border on Monday morning, live with us doing domestic work, then leave on Friday afternoon to and return to Tijuana. She (always a she for Mexican nationals doing domestic work) had a worker’s permit issued by the State of California.

I agree that trying to make landlords and employers pay a penalty for renting or hiring illegal aliens is stupid (as defined by acting on your own ignorance) and therefore unenforceable. But City X or Town Y should be able to determine the purpose for and whereabouts of non-citizens in their jurisdiction, especially when they go to budget for services, like police to arrest non-citizen criminals.

Hey Ruben, Viva La Raza, you racist peon.

FASTMAN:
Brilliant! The purpose of having an official language is to put everyone dealing with government on the same playing field. If there are not sufficient translations to go around that’s discriminatory.

K. Sacandy:
Why in the world the United States government did not annex Baja California along with Utah, Arizona, New Mexico and the rest of Alta California in their negotiation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, I’ll never understand?

Pistol:
Yea, I want to live in your world. In fact I don’t like the music my neighbors are playing right now. I think I’ll get the city council to ban that Salsa trash and then go issue them citations. They deserved to be fined, at least, and while the officers are there, they can go through the house looking for more illegal stuff/people.

Kraut:
Exactly! So, does a worker’s permit issued by the state make someone legal? How about if it was issued by an incorporated municipality?

But, it’s probably more revenue positive to extract fines than permit fees.

Navarrette; Desparation does suit you so
Well.

Since he hasn't elicited enough response, he just ups the ante to get more response.

This guy thrives on negativity.
The best thing to do is ignore him.

BTW there is no resultant difference between millions of civilian invaders and a tank squadron.
Except that if green uniforms tried to cross the border to begin with, fewer Mexicans would be in the US now.

Which Side of Slave Labor Are You On?
I have never understood the Leftist on this issue. When you look back at slavery and the arguements the South used on many occassions, it sounded just like Mr. Navarrettes. "The price of goods (cotton etc.) and services would skyrocket. The poor, uneducated slave would be set free and not be able to function in society. They were not capable of learning to read or write. All they were good for was to work in the fields." The masters housed, fed, clothed and gave medical care to the slaves to keep them going. Why? To keep the plantation going. The illegal is akin to the slave in many ways. The differences are few. The employers do not house, cloth, feed or supply medical care to the illegals. They let them free each night to go, wherever an illegal goes at night. They pay them meager wages at best and when one of the illegals finds him or herself in need of medical care or housing or food the taxpayer foots the bill. They are told not to learn english and that helps them to remain cut off from the rest of America and all it has to offer. They will never be able to be more than just field hands, stuck between two countries and two ways of life.

Great Posts
I'm so tired of being labled racist if I object to the illegal aliens. What really sticks in my craw is seeing/hearing terms used such as "the minority majority". Minority isn't a race. How can there be a minority majority? When hispanics outnumber other races 2 to 1 in a town they are simply the majority and everyone else, to include whites, are the minority.

An Open Letter To Illegal Aliens
Get out of my country! I did not invite you here. I understand that you seek a better life, but you have no right to be here and I owe you nothing. You sneak into my country like thieves breaking into my home at night. You enter in such large numbers that you provide cover for terrorists who wish to destroy my country. You smuggle drugs, take part in gang violence, and take benefits that you have not earned. You refuse to learn our language and, on top of everything else, you expect to receive amnesty for your crimes. Sorry! There is no free lunch for you here.

You want a better life? Earn it! Go back to your homeland and lobby your leaders to provide you with the same things that attract you to the USA. Rally thousands of your fellow citizens in your own streets, march to your nation’s capitol and make known your demands there. You have no voice in my country. I can’t hear you.

If your nation’s current leaders will not listen, then vote for new leaders who will change your country for the better. But don’t come here and try to make my country like yours. If you can’t change your own country, then seek legal entry to the USA and, once here, apply to become a U.S. citizen. Only then will I welcome you as an equal and sharing partner in the American Dream.

However, if you choose to remain in my country illegally, I consider you a criminal and my enemy. I will relentlessly be on the watch for you, the leftist loons who support you and the US companies that hire you illegally. I will find you and have you punished for your crimes, according to established law. You have pushed me far enough. Now, I’m going to push back.

Keep looking over your shoulder. One day you’ll turn around and I’ll be there with the Minutemen, National Guard, Border Patrol, Drug Enforcement Administration and Immigration and Naturalization Service.



To TownHall re Ruben Navarrette Jr
I apoligize for my use of words in the previous post.

But I felt it important that the message be heard,if you notice a majority of TH readers want his hate speach removed from TH.
His message is no differnet than mine was.
Except that,my wording was a weee bit more graphic.

Hate is hate,no matter how you phrase it.
And yes I hate this Racist!

MORE than enough already, Townhall
Get this bleeding heart babble merchant off this website. Although we can't get rid of all the illegal aliens in our nation, at least we can shut up one of their advocates. Do it now!!!

Gordon
"Those directly affected by immigration would be better served by web postings, and city ordinances directed to career counseling, and retraining to improve skills and value of these employees."

Or, in other words, "let them eat cake".

Enough already, Townhall:
How can this anti-American be featured on the same site as the intelectual heavyweights Drs. Sowell and Williams?

If having a common language is not important, then why is this article printed in English?

"Now let me have it. 'Supporting illegal immigration.' Blah, blah. 'Trying to bring over relatives.' Blah, blah."

This is juvenile at best and should have no place here. Children pass notes in school to one another using the same phrases.

This anti-American needs to be barred. If I wanted to read this tripe I would seek it out from leftists propaganda, there's plenty of that around.

Gf
I agree 100%. Americans for the first time spoke out and let their frustrations with government be heard on Nov. 7. This damaging illegal immigration issue needs to voiced loudly by the people, again sending a message to all the jug heads in Washington DC.

I agree with the voice from many of the post above, it may be time for TH editors to re-group & review on what the heck has been going on here as of late.

Those of here at TH as well as the rest of Americans need to shout as loud as we possibly can about our outrage as to the way our immigration laws are not being enforced.

Bright loud bumper stickers are available at my web site.

hntr admin
http://www.headsneedtoroll.org

The real reason it will fail.
The real reason ordinances against renting to illegals will fail is, now pay attention, the municipalities will have to ensure that landlords are trained to recognize illegals and counterfeit documents. Technically they will have to know the difference between a temporary business visa, education visa, temporary border crossers and green card holders. They could rent to a person with a 1 year business or education visa but have to kick him out if he over stayed.

The landlords will have to be taught how to recognize legitimate cards and drivers licenses from those purchased at flea markets, and some of the counterfeit cards are difficult for people who know to detect. Also, some illegals have legitimate drivers licenses.

How will they control it if a legal immigrant subleases to an illegal? Or rents a house and rents out the bedrooms to illegals?

The english only ordinances make sense. It might force a couple of them to assimilate into society a little bit more.

These ordinances, while good intentioned, are good only for getting national press.

"Ruben, Ruben I've been thinking....
what a gay life it would be"... What a great old American song


Wouldn' it be grand if people obeyed our laws? Your argument is almost childlike. There IS a way to come into this country legally, you know.

In response to your closing,"blah, blah"

Citizenship is a priviledge.

Sneaking in is not the way to earn it. Should this greatest of honors be confered on people who willfully disrespect our country and break our laws?

Every illegal allien who uses our tax supported social services steals from my family, my neighbors and my fellow citizens. Illegal aliens willfully steal into our country. I have every right to stop those people. THAT, RUBEN, RUBEN, ISN'T RACIST, IT IS MY DUTY TO MY FAMILY AND COUNTRY.





Hack Writer Navarrette
This is America, you dope! We speak English here.
You shall not receive the attention or arguments you crave, to stay on this forum.
--------------------------------------------------
"Raidencraig"--I loved your post! My thoughts exactly.

Good Point
888 and gf raise a good point. I am dissappointed to find Townhall sponsoring leftist propaganda. Townhall, what the hell is your problem? Are you, like the Republicans, forgetting who made you?

Mr. Navarrette writes:
"Official English laws are anti-foreigner, plain and simple."

Official English laws are NOT "anti-foreigner", they are PRO American (is there something wrong with that?), and help to encourage foreigners to become Americans by requiring them to go to the trouble of learning to speak our language (if they are not serious enough about becoming American to learn to speak English then they probably need to return to wherever they came from).

"And, it doesn't matter if the foreigner in question came legally or illegally."

The reason why it DOES matter is that someone who came here legally is probably serious about being an American Citizen, and therefore presumably will conduct himself accordingly (i.e., behave himself, stay within the bounds of the law, support his own life by his own effort, possess and display a sense of patriotism and gratitude towards America, etc). On the other hand someone who is here illegally probably doesn't have becoming an American citizen (with all the corresponding responsibilities that implies) as his top priority and should not be further pandered to in his lawbreaking by treasonous politicians who presume to force mltilingualism on the rest of us.

Failure due to successful smearing!

In my opinion, the problem with such bans MAY be that they are destined to fail, but NOT because they are misdirected and dishonest. They fail because those opposed to our existing laws being enforced in the first place are adept at such successful VILIFYING that cowardly politicians cave and well-meaning citizens lose sight of the social value of the RULE OF LAWS.

Illegal
Hey Ruben, Requiring English only isn't anti foreigner, it is Pro American. When My ex-wife's Grandfather came here from Switzerland in 1921, he was required to learn English to become a US Citizen. He had to assymilate into our culture, also. He had no problem doing so, in fact, He was proud to do it.

Fining an employer for hiring illegals won't work either. They can appeal those fines. that would drag them on for years. the thing to do is, tell the employers that if the name don't match the social security #, they get no credit on their taxes. I believe that would stop most of the employment of illegals. This idea is an idea I heard of from Lars Larson.

One more thing, They are not Illegal "Immigrants". They are Illegal "Aliens". Immigrants come here legally. Aliens are invaders. Call them what they are.

THAT'S RIGHT JOSE
Your comment.. "Official English laws are anti-foreigner, plain and simple. And, it doesn't matter if the foreigner in question came legally or illegally. All that matters is that they speak a language other than English."

That's right, what part of it don't you understand? This is America, foreigners have been coming to our country since day one. They entered the country legally, learned to speak English and were happy to blend in with our American culture. This is the way most Americans do not have any problem with. Then we have the Mexicans way of doing it. Number one, they are illegal aliens, not undocumented. Mexicans enter this country without having had even the most basic of health care screening and are re- introducing diseases that this country has had under control for almost a 100 years. Your point that illegals and landlords are easier targets than Corporate America who knowingly employ illegal aliens is totally creditable and only shows that the politicians slithering the streets of Washington DC have their hands deep into the pockets of Corporate America and make sure that before they they leave a free get out of jail card with a promise written on the back. This promise simply says, don't worry, we have no plans to start enforcing the many immigration laws that the US already has.

Mr. Navarrette, what are your thoughts on the burden that the US incurs providing free medical treatment to millions of illegal aliens? or what about the enormous cost of trying to educate the estimated number of 1.5 million illegal alien kids who are taking advantage of our public system.

The next time you feel the need to give us your bullsh**, make sure to include information about immigration laws that the US already has in place. Such as

Illegal Entry: USC 8 Section 1325-Any alien who:

1) Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
2) Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
3) Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first offense, be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both, and for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18, or imprisoned not more than two years or both.

Mr. Navarrette, your thoughts on
Illegal Hiring: Section 1324A

Any person who knowingly hires/harbors/transports any illegal alien is guilty of a felony punishable by 10 years jail + $2000 fine per illegal alien + forfeiture of the vehicle or property used to commit the crime.

The United States has plenty of other good laws that pertain to immigration that were put in place to protect this country.

The question is?
Who's job is it to make sure our laws are enforced? Wouldn't that be the President of the United States and Congress?

hntr admin
http://www.headsneedtoroll.org

Is Ruben Navarrette a racist?
Ruben,

I have discussed Illegal Immigration and its impact on the United States with friends, family and co-workers. We never bring up race, ethnicity or skin color in our discussions on the topic. When discussing illegal immigration it seems as if every column you write has something to do with race, ethnicity or the color of someone's skin . Why are you so hung up on race and the color of someone's skin? I don't think there is a columnist on the web more fixated on skin color, race, and ethnicity. Its very questionable behavior Ruben.

Why, Townhall? WHY?
It's bad enough that the likes of Jack Kemp, Jacob Sullum, and Linda Chavez are on this website. Navarrette's garbage is above (or rather beneath) and beyond even their moronic writing.

When illegals trespass and dump garbage on people's property in border towns, rob their houses en route to their supposedly "honest work," or feed our guards dogs meat containing shards of glass, it's fair to say that we Americans have "invited" the illegals to do that. Idiot. And that bit about official-English policies being "anti-foreigner" is utter demagoguery.

I wonder if Townhall is going to come up short the next time it asks for donations from conservatives, given how much anti-American $#!^ they package as "conservative" and post on this website.

immigration
The real issue of racism here is that these people get racial preferences even when they are illegal. Those of us who want equal rights and to be rewarded for merit are at a loss.

There are two very valid reasons to oppose the immigration we are getting. The immigrants are poor and they get racial preferences.

The so-called cheap labor these people provide is heavily subsidized by the taxpayer. We provide them with free medical care, free K-12 education for their children (who are automatically citizens if born here), heavily subsided college educations for their children, and lots more.

Middle class wage earners pay dearly for all this.

Yes, I would like to see sanctions against their employers. There was a House bill last year that would have done so, but the Senate voted for open borders and amnesty.

Sanctions against landlords make sense. Immigration has been driving up housing prices for everyone. More people means more need for housing.

And of course, the immigration drives down wages.

No one seems to care about middle class Americans. We pay high taxes to support eveyone else's needs, and the legislators treat us with disdain. Both parties are elitists in somewhat different ways.

The worst inequities are with regard to college education. Federal guidelines require steep parental contributions from the middle class, which are not offset by scholarships, while the poor get full aid packages, with special scholarships available to "minorities". Meanwhile, middle class parents have to borrow against their retirement. Basically, we are asked to subsidize everyone else in the society as if we were cash cows.

Ruben spewing his own kind of racism
He says, "suddenly, off in the distance, comes an army of Mexican immigrants."
Ruben thinks it takes an army to make a crime. Less than that army of One mentality makes for good pseudo citizens if they're Mexican, I guess.
He says,"Illegal immigrants aren't invading. They've been invited."
So it's like this: I need my house cleaned. I come home from work to find my back door knocked down and a "small" army of Mexicans cleaning, doing a fine job, too. Am I happy about it? No. Why? Because the need to be cleaned was not synonymous with an invite to crash my pad.
He says, "Employers aren't as easy to pick on as illegal immigrants -- not if you're a politician in North Texas who has to raise money to further your political aspirations."

And.... "-- Misdirected because these measures try to enforce immigration law by targeting landlords who rent to folks who turn out to be illegal immigrants."
Landlords aren't business people now, according to Rubin. News to me.
And what exactly is the point of highlighting political spinelessness? It happens, Rubin. Get over it. Doesn't make it the right path.

Continuing with his dross commentary, " I'm also at a loss to understand how another provision of these loco ordinances -- declaring English the official language of cities and towns -- helps curb illegal immigration. What it does is make plain that, for many Americans, this debate is about cultural displacement -- the fear that, with Spanish becoming more prevalent, those who speak English will become less relevant."
A common language fosters civility, Ruben. It is the hallmark of peaceful human interaction. The operative word is peaceful. If we can talk, we can arrange our civilization to accomodate each other. If Ruben doesn't understand this he can't much speak for Mexican immigrants no matter which language he prefers. He just recently wrote of the "rude" (his word)Americans that vacation in Mexico and "expect" (again, his word) that the locals speak to them in English. So, when the shoe is on the other foot, Americans are rude. But here in the United States it is still Americans who are rude for demanding that new arrivals speak the native tongue. Can't have it both ways Ruben, ol' bud. It is either rude on both sides of the border or it is not. However, I will say in defense of American tourists in Mexico that they are the employer there also. It is their spending that employs the tourist commerce. The employer calls the shots, usually. Back here in the States the Mexicans are the employees. Again, the employer calls the shots, Ruben. It's natural. Most Americans would love to communicate in Spanish when vacationing in Mexico, if for no other reason that to have a more friendly interaction with those that are serving them on vacation. I know because I've been there, done that. You should see the American tourist who try, however comically to pick up and use a few useful Spanish clauses. But they do try in the week or so they're there. We do know the value of common language when we're visiting Mexico or any other place.

More Ruben; playing the dreaded race card this time: "They support efforts to make English the official language of City X or Town Y. And thus they promote racism and the blurring of the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants."
Ruben it is not about race, dude. It is about getting along as best we can. Consider how many of us have had heated disagreements with folks who speak the same language as we do only to find out there was some communicative misunderstandings. It is often hard enough to get along while everyone speaks the same language. Yet how much more difficult it is when different languages are being spoken. It isn't racism that sparks English only laws. It is a desire to foster peaceful interaction; quite the opposite. Consider one example in the extreme. The scene in the movie "Saving Private Ryan" where two German uniformed soldiers are trying to surrender at the top of the dunes of Normandy beaches. The two Americans who have them under the gun cannot understand them so they mock them and they shoot them, dead. If you read the true account in Steven Ambrose's book you would know that the two soldiers were not German at all but forced conscripts from another country that was invaded by Germany. They were there under duress and were not really our enemy. But the language barrier got them killed and made the American soldiers look especially bad even in the face of the killing fields they had just left below at the beach. Language commonality promotes peace and prosperity. Rubin, how could you stoop so low as to dismiss this first and primary benefit of language to promote your point of view. Calling Americans racist for recognizing the importance of a common language poisons the view that you are objective. Something I've known about you for years.
And finally, my surname is Irish. Talking with a great aunt this summer she told me that my great-great grandfather would try his darndest to supress his brogue to be accepted as American. He wanted to fit in. What is it with Ruben type Mexicans?

Make some noise
I’m happy to see unanimous support against Ruben’s article. However, there are indications that President Bush is going to sign some kind of amnesty bill. I suspect he is working on some kind of back-door deal with the Democrats right now. If President Bush and the other Democrats are going to be stopped I think lots and lots of folks are going to have to make lots and lots of loud noise, right away.

Good Grief!
Hey, TH editors! Get rid of this guy!

I wish I could flag this whole column as offensive.

I once again gave it one dinky check mark, still waiting for him to disappear back over the horizon, probably to the South, from whence he came.

This time, he's sqwauking about anti-illegal-alien laws being enforced.

Enough!

Immigration
No Ruban, "Vengeful communities" are not the problem. They may be a "problem", but they are not 'THE' problem. The 'problem' is illegal immigration, and the failure of our government to properly fix the problem. Try to focus, son.

I agree with you that rental restrictions and language requirements passed as local ordinances are not going to stem the tide of illegal immigration. However, I can hardly bring myself to call the communities 'vengeful'. These measures are more symbolic then meaningful, and indicate just how frustrated the citizens have become. The Minutemen are another symbol of our frustration. They are good people steping in where our government has failed.

Ruben, are you starting to get it yet. The American people know they are getting screwed. They know that many of their elected officials are taking bribes for money, or votes, or both.
But most of all they know that the will of the people is not being carried out. Once again special interests trump the rights of the American public.

The liberal left, and that part of the business community that rely on cheap labor, have formed an unholy alliance to perpetuate this convoluted, twisted system that is ultimately supported by taxation.

I support legal immigration. I support legal immigrants. Most rational Americans do. Just as we do Civil Rights. However, when the scales tip to far in one direction or the other, something must be done. An example is Michigan's recent Constitutionaal Amendment to ban Affirmitive Action. All the major political candidates, and all of big business opposed the amendment. (Go figure) It passed because it was the 'will' of the people. Rental restrictions and language requirements, the Minutemen, whatever, all are symbols of what is to come if the politicans don't carry out the will of the people.


Symbolism over Substance
Escondido’s city council is just posturing for the press coverage. Their ordinance makes landlords collect copies of the fake documents they are offered, just as employers do now – probably with similar effect. Plus, enforcement is blocked by a court’s Temporary Restraining Order.

This isn’t the first dumb law. There is a whole web site of them http://www.dumblaws.com/. Being a law doesn’t make it Holy Writ, or produce the declared purpose. Notice a response to raising the minimum wage, is self-service kiosks at fast food restaurants, and contact-less payment. Make labor expensive, and you get less of it. Now where are kids going to get their first job?

The bright people promoting the rise in the MW undoubtedly know this, but it gets votes every time it is used – just as some are doing with immigration.

Those directly affected by immigration would be better served by web postings, and city ordinances directed to career counseling, and retraining to improve skills and value of these employees.

open door
The door was closed in the 19th century because the flood of immigrants into America needed time to assimilate into society. Leaving the doors open to unfettered immigration DID threaten the fabric of a stable society.(IT STILL DOES)

Nobody wanted a polyglot, culturally diverse (Balkanized)nation, We wanted people who wanted to become one of us, i.e. Engish speakers, lovers of the American ideal, and dare I say, practioners of American traditions and PEOPLE WHO OBEY OUR LAWS. We wanted it then and we want it now.
I would direct you to the names of boys who fought WWII. Lots of "ethnic" type names of soldiers. Their parents, after the immigration door was slammed shut, had been given time to MELT into society. In one generation most these immigrants only spoke Engish, they celebrated July 4th and were willing to make the ultimate sacrfice for their country. AMERICANS.

Refusal to learn English, maintaining foreign traditions, flying foreign flags, singing the national anthem in Spanish and to demand to be taught and spoken to in a foreign language IS antiamerican.

P.S If you can't speak English, chances are you weren't born here. That isn't a racist statement, IT IS FACT. Landlords, HUD officials, medicaid providers, school officials, WIC providers, Social Security administrators, voter registrars, DMV, and ANY employers have a right to see your green card or proof of citizenship, and a real American would be proud to show it.

Illegals vs legals..
Those who enter our nation illegally have no respect for laws - thus they are a high risk for our safety (see the link for listings of various legal citizens murdered by illegals)
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52198

The hypocrisy in the matter of immigration is when Mexicans (illegals) are compared to European (legals). My grandfather immigrated here legally from Germany. He was advised that he had 6 months to learn to speak english fluently or he would be deported. He was also advised that if during that time period he attempted to use any social services, he would be imprisoned, then deported. He obeyed all laws & honored all requirements, thus was granted citizenship.
The lawless parasites form the south (having entered the nation illegally) do not honor such demands - thus they become a burdon on the tax payers, the health care system, & the legal system.

Were Mr. Navarrett truely concerned about Mexicans, he would be campaigning for the overthrow of their corrupt government so as to allow Mexicans the opportunity to succeed in their own nation, vs. campaigning (as a socialist) for us to provide provide preferential treatment to those same illegals.

What is it about the word ILLEGAL
that Navarrette doesn't get? My ancestors came to this great nation legally, learned English, contributed to society with hard work, building churches, raising God-fearing and hard working families.

The illegals are bankrupting our society, especially our education, courts, prisons and medical entities. In Idaho there are many, many illegals and the schools are not allowed to question if the children are here legally. In our southern states, perhaps elsewhere, medical care must be provided without questioning if the recipients are legal or illegal. The number of babies born to illegals in this country is staggering - and then, just because they are born here they are legal. No way! This is wrong, wrong, wrong! The number of unmarried illegal underage illegal girls having babies is overwhelming. All of this is morally reprehensible.

Some say the illegals take jobs that our citizens won't take so, they are helping our society. Wrong! They are using our system and our tax dollars for education, medical, etc. and sending money to their families in their country of origin. Why the heck don't they stay in their own countries and build them up rather than sneak here and tear our country down?

Mexico's President Fox is "in bed" with that creep from Venezuela and they have every intention of "reclaiming" California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. We must stand up to this invasion! We must not only build a fence, we must deport all illegals. Let them come here legally! If they can pay high dollars to the "coyotes", they can pay for the process of coming here legally.

I was in southern California this year and there wasn't one fast food place that didn't have non-English speaking employees. Well, if they were here legally and had gone through our system of education, they darned well could speak English.

Navarrette, why don't you go south and make those countries a better place to live?

English only
A shared language is the glue that hold us together.

Mexico and Mexicans
This column and columnist condescends to readers and Americans. This ungrateful jerk should go to Mexico and enlighten THEM with his wisdom. Maybe he's SO smart, he could lead them to lift themselves of out of their abject poverty.

But, no, instead he stays here and browbeats Americans who have figured out, as a country, how to have an outstanding standard of living.

I am proud to be an American. And frankly, since the Mexicans just can't figure it out, I vote that we finish the job begun in the 19th century, declare war on Mexico, invade it, make it a territory, and introduce good government to them.

They obviously need it.

And for the record, my grandparents came from Greece. My grandmother never learned much English, but the government didn't spend one dime paying for her 6 children to be born. Grandpa paid for it all. He learned English.

K. Sacandy

P.S. I'm a Veteran who didn't spend 3 years in the U.S. Army so I could read Spanish in American news columns -- Spanish which I have never learned. Again, this jerk has bad manners to write in a foreign language in a column meant for Americans. Rude, classless jerk.

How to get rid of Ruben
If we all want to get rid of Ruben, here's the best way to do it:

The first person who come across his article responds with something to the effect of:

"You are supporting illegal immigration and just want to bring over your relatives.

This is the unanimous position of Townhall posters, no more posts are necessary."

And give him one check. From there, no one else should need to respond. And, if no one DOES respond, he will be dropped.

Columnists like Ruben are hired ONLY to bring people out to post, to generate traffic for the site. If we show Townhall that we aren't going to play their game, then Ruben won't be hired to post his columns.

Illegal is ILLEGAL
The sidewalk past my house is extremely narrow and there's a telephone pole that makes it even narrower. It is illegal for anyone to ride her bicycle on this sidewalk. Not too long ago I confronted a mother and her young child riding their bikes on my sidewalk and asked the mother if she knew it was illegal to ride on the sidewalk. "Not if you're ten years old!" she shot back. 'Are you ten years old?' I asked. She then said that it was a 'stupid law'. With her daughter listening I asked, "Do you think that any law you consider stupid doesn't have to be obeyed? What are you going to do when you're visiting your daughter in the hospital because she thought wearing a seatbelt was 'stupid' and she was thrown through the windshield?"

She and her daughter got off the sidewalk and I watched her out of sight.

When a Supreme Court Justice applicant was turned away because he had used illegal drugs, my lawyer boss asked me why I had never used drugs. "Because they're illegal," I told him. He insisted that was not a good reason -- there must be another!

Seems to me Rubens is searching like these two people for some meaning to "illegal" that actually allows him to do as he pleases without any consequences.

The fact is that most of us have no influence at all on the Federal problem of illegal immigration. But it's a clear fact that if in our own towns we don't allow them to rent apartments or buy property, register to vote or driving licenses, put their children in school, sign up for 'benefits' or speak Spanish in default of English, they'll have to go somewhere else. When it works in one town, the next town in line will try it and find it works for them too. And before you know it, word gets out that in this state they don't make it pleasant for illegals -- go somewhere else.

This works well in ridding your town of beggars and 'squeegee kids', too; and with any quality of life type violations.

In fact, when I was a girl at Catholic School, I remember how isolated and ostracized a divorced woman was in the community. While the law of the Church hasn't changed, most people think about divorce these days the way Rubens thinks about illegal aliens. Works real well to curb divorce, doesn't it?

1-800-CRY-BABY
Let me think now. Being retired military I was fortunate to live in many foreign countries and never once in any of those countries do I remember ever hearing:

Press 1 for Japanese(Japan)
Press 1 for Japanese(Okinawa)
Press 1 for Korean
Press 1 for Pilipino(Tagalog)
Press 1 for Spanish (Spain)

So take your blah blah arse across the border and teach English. Until then:

Press 1 for English
Press 2 for directions back to where you came until you learn English.


Reform...
Warning: This column takes issue with a half-baked ``solution,'' and thus will likely elicit angry letters accusing the author of ``supporting illegal immigration.''

Ok,You are supporting illegal immigration.Happy now?

Suppose we had a $10,000 fine on all employers of illegals,i.e. $10,000 for each illegal,and fully enforced.We bankrupted small businesses,severly damaged medium businesses,and hurt the bottom line of large businesses.Illegal immigration would dry up in a month.

And just suppose we held our elected politicians in Washington responsible for passing appropiate legislation....oh,wait a minute.We did that on Nov 7,didn't we?

Correction
Rubin has shown us how MSM and the liberals will oppose immigration at every step
should be
Rubin has shown us how MSM and the liberals will oppose immigration reform at every step

Know Thy Opponent
The only thing I agree with Rubin about is this following line.

If people have a problem with illegal immigration, let them target it head-on -- not nibble around the edges with housing bans.

We do need to deal with it head on, and Rubin has shown us how MSM and the liberals will oppose immigration at every step. Damn the torpedoes, full amnesty ahead. The major problem that has already been pointed out is that; neither the Dims nor Repubs want to deal with the issue realistically. Both sides think they are jockeying for favor based upon race. It is time to get over the race issue. Legal immigration is good, unfettered access will be disastrous. Rubin does give us a preview of things to come

Oh please, the Victim Card
and thus will likely elicit angry letters accusing the author of ``supporting illegal immigration.'' And since the author is Mexican-American, some readers may charge that he is ``trying to bring over relatives.''

"Oh poor me, I'm a hyphenated American! The world is against me and I'm a victim! Pity me!"

Oh, we do pity you Ruben, but not for that.

Come to think of it, Ruben is Braindead!
"Illegal immigrants aren't invading. They've been invited."

I guess that's why they're ILLEGAL, huh?

"I've had it with folks in these places playing dumb as to how their cities got to this point, as if they haven't been riding this tiger for the last decade while enjoying a robust economy and the comforts provided by cheap immigrant labor."

If the great economy is caused by cheap immigrant labor, why did they leave Mexico? Shouldn't Mexico be a superpower by your illogic?

"Employers aren't as easy to pick on as illegal immigrants"

No doubt! First of all, employers can vote. They can contribute to campaigns and political parties. So I guess the solution to that is amnesty, right?

Of course, if the illegals weren't here, the employers couldn't hire them, now could they?

"They support efforts to make English the official language of City X or Town Y. And thus they promote racism and the blurring of the distinction between legal and illegal immigrants."

Why, because only white people can speak English? YOU are the racist, Navarette. You're injecting race where it's irrelevant.

"If people have a problem with illegal immigration, let them target it head-on -- not nibble around the edges with housing bans."

Now you're being inconsistent. On the one hand, you complain that employers aren't being punished, since they are an indirect cause of illegal aliens invading the United States, and then you complain that landlords ARE being targetted even though availability of housing is ALSO an indirect cause of the illegal alien invasion.

Which is it? Do we nibble around the edges, or do we attack it head on by building a wall on the border? Realize that no matter what you say now, your answer will be inconsistent.

" Official English laws are anti-foreigner, plain and simple."

If it's so plain and simple, I guess it must be a blanket truth that America is the only place where people speak English and can learn it. Otherwise, it's not so plain. Quit acting like we invented and solely own the frickin language.

"Similar laws in the late 19th century were aimed at German immigrants. The fact that those immigrants came legally did little to quell the passions of the nativists of that era."

So what? What do the 1800's have to do with this? The issue is assimilation. Encouraging that process requires that the influx of other cultures be regulated and widely distributed to diverse groups. We cannot take in thirty million Germans and expect them all to assimilate. But we can take in thirty million people and get them to assimilate provided that they do not all come from the same place.

If the illegals spoke English, we would much less worried about their failure to assimialte, and the tolerable number of them would be higher. But they don't. This isn't America's fault; this isn't employer's fault; this isn't Joe Maintainence Guy's fault. It's the illegal alien's fault and only their fault.

Finally, you thoroughly disrespect your readers. What goes around comes around.

Yawn...
Why must you insist on posting here? I make a point to skip to the bottom and give you a 1-check rating. That's very frustrating because I'd prefer giving you a negative. My family fought for California since the Bear Flag Revolt. Mexico lost the bloody war and lost its bloody empire. GET OVER IT!!! Deal with your own problems in Mexico and stop making them ours!!! How about a compromise?
Take your illegals and their children back and we'll give you Bush, George Will, and all the other open-border elites.

I cancelled my subscription
to the Union Tribune, so say whatever you want now, Mr. Navarette. You sure don't work for me anymore.

Good Question, gf
BrianR said giving a single check to Navarette's columns may well be the best way to get him out of here. A no check vote may not be recorded and averaged. A one check vote will be. One thing for certain, after this last one, with its non-thought rationalization of what is basically an anti-US position, i will read no more of this guy's junk.

Did the Democrats win Townhall also?
I thought Townhall was a website for conservative thought. This article is pure liberal propaganda.

Ruben, Ruben
This is so tiresome, Ruben. Ok, how about a compromise. Automatically deport all illegal aliens who commit crimes of any sort (25% of inmates in California prisons are illegals) and don't let them back in through the fence that's supposed to be built; automatically deny all claims for federal or state housing, welfare, and medical costs for all illegal aliens; and then I'll recommend to these communities that they accept housing requests to those gainfully and provably employed.

Navarrette
You are burning straw men. This problem exists because the law is not being enforced. More laws and fences will solve nothing unless enforced. The law is not enforced because people at every level from city councils to the US congress are bought and bribed. EVERY PERSON who does not support strict enforcement of our immigration law is bribed in some way, and that includes you, Sir. I don't know what your payoff is, but it is there. You are aiding and abetting criminals, which is a crime. You are no better or worse than the thousands of politicians making the continuation of this problem possible.

I'm done
That's it i'm done. I swear on my dead dads grave, i'm never coming back to this website again. If these people were flooding the country to become columnists and replace you, I bet you would think differantly.

Illegal
What part of "illegal" don't you understand? This is not an anti-Mexican sentiment as some, like you, like to portray. I have to follow the laws of the nation, why shouldn't everyone else? Furthermore, it has served the United States very well to have had one language. The refusal to assimulate by not using English is anti-USA. Our economy cannot exist if everyone cannot communicate with each other. Escondido had to take a stance because we have become too PC to do what needs to be done on a national level. Our politicians are too weak. We have to start somewhere, and I applaud Escondido for standing up for what is right.

Yeah, right.
Here he goes again. This guy is a one trick pony. I really wonder why he is here.


He isn't worth reading. He has one message. Welcome in illegal immigrant invaders. Any body who doesn't want to see the country flooded with these people anymore is a bad person.


OK! I'm a bad person. Get out of my face and shut up Ruben.
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