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Wednesday, November 01, 2006
Ruben  Navarrette Jr.,  :: Townhall.com Columnist
The immigration facade
by Ruben Navarrette Jr.,
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It's mind-boggling that folks at both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue could spend so much time and energy over the last five years debating immigration reform, yet still manage to steer clear of some of the touchier issues involved.

Members of Congress were content to huddle around President Bush last week as he signed a bill calling for 700 miles of fencing on the U.S.-Mexican border. The photo-op was intended to fool us into thinking that something has been accomplished in the area of border security.

What was accomplished was very little. Even if lawmakers had come up with all the funding to pay for the fencing -- and they didn't -- barriers only squeeze more illegal immigrants through those parts of the border that aren't fenced off. In the 1990s, crackdowns in El Paso and San Diego sent millions of illegal immigrants to crossing points in the Arizona desert.

The country would have been better served by an honest discussion of matters indispensable to any meaningful debate of immigration policy:

-- Today's immigrants are not so different from those who came to America from Europe a century ago. The fact that the earlier wave came legally (there was no way to come illegally until the early 20th century, when Congress first took steps to limit immigration) didn't make them any more welcome at the time. Then, as now, the fear was that immigrants -- from Ireland or Italy -- wouldn't assimilate. And, of course, eventually they did.

-- Then, as now, racism and nativism were intrinsic parts of the discussion whether or not people were willing to admit it. How else does a nation of immigrants even begin to make the case that a new batch of immigrants is more menacing and harmful to society than previous batches unless you can argue that the new immigrants are somehow inferior to the old ones?

-- Illegal immigration is a self-inflicted wound. Local municipalities complain about the cost of providing education, health care and other services to illegal immigrants and their children. But they should at least be honest about the benefit their communities derive from the availability of cheap labor, which, in many cases, keeps local economies humming in cities such as Phoenix, Dallas or Las Vegas.

-- Despite popular misconceptions, Hispanic immigrants and their children are indeed assimilating just as they have been for generations. According to recent studies, they learn English and lose Spanish, adopt the common culture and shared values, and become Americanized. Fortune 500 companies may still rely on Spanish ad campaigns and other forms of ethnic marketing to sell their products, but, increasingly, Hispanics speak English.

-- Our dependence on illegal immigrant labor, combined with the fact that -- according to research such as a September 2006 study by the Center for Immigration Studies -- most of the job displacement has occurred with younger workers, confirms what Americans suspected: that, along with modern-day advances, our native-born young people don't have the work ethic they did a generation or two ago and that illegal immigrants pick up the slack.

-- Despite talk about the impact that illegal immigration has on working-class Americans, the untold story is the effect that illegal immigrants have on those in the middle and upper class. Illegal immigrants let Americans fulfill their earning potential while making accessible to the middle class what used to be considered luxuries reserved for the wealthy, such as nannies and maids.

-- And lastly, you can't control illegal immigration without cracking down on employers and you can't crack down on employers without going after the "casual user." The problem isn't just farms and construction firms. It's the suburban housewife, nurse or teacher who hires someone to help maintain the household -- without concern for whether the worker is in the country legally.

A lot of this is tough to hear, and so it's no wonder our lawmakers were none too anxious to broach these subjects with voters. So instead the politicians went for the low-hanging fruit and passed a bill calling for a fence.

If the barrier is ever actually built -- and don't hold your breath -- we should hang signs every 10 miles that read: "Congress talked itself silly for five years debating immigration reform and all we got was this dumb fence."

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About The Author
Ruben Navarrette Jr. is a columnist and editorial board member of The San Diego Union-Tribune.

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Lociento, Amigo
No sale, pal.

This sounds like every other column that MeCha, ACLU, and their ilk put out.

Illegal aliens from Latin American are not assimilating at the pace that earlier immigrants did. How is it that, twenty years after they have been in the U.S., you still see illegal aliens that have not lifted a finger to learn the lengua or take steps to legalize their status?

I'll tell you why. Their allegiance is to where they came from. This was made evident by the pro-scamnesty rallies where the Mexican and Salvodoran flags were shoved in the faces of America.

And if you think it's about race, I want you to do this. The next time you see one of the talking heads from Mexico rambling on TV about how they need to unload more of their poor onto the USA, and the USA just needs to shut up and take them, take a look at who is talking. Chances are, they are white. Yes, Mexico is run by white Spanish elites that want the darker people out of the country. FACT. Ernesto Derbez, Juan Hernandez, and Vicente Fox... all white. The darker you are in Mexico, the more the elites want you gone.

Recently, I saw an article from a Texas newspaper that showed an illegal alien that was in the maternity ward, letting the taxpayers pick up the tab for her care. Her reasoning? Basically, she was entitled to free medical care because she and all the other illegals were "keeping the economy going". Sure. Even the illegals are listening to the talking points of the open border lobby now.

And Mr. Ruben, no matter how cheap they are, I will never be able to justify having an illegal alien in my home serving as my slave, so don't lump us "middle class" folks into your justification for allowing our gates to be crashed. I know many middle class folks, and they mow their own lawns and mop their own floors. The only people benefitting from this are the unscrupulous employers that hire illegals to widen their profit margins.

Yet more hot air from RN
There are many differences between today's immigrants and those of the past. While there were ethnic newspapers, there was no massive ethnic media infrastructure (LaOpinion,Univision,etc.) There was no massive multiculturalism infrastructure either, and nowadays not just liberals but leaders of the GOP bend to its will. And, needless to say, Ireland never owned part of the U.S., yet Mexico is in effect resettling their "Lost Territories".

Regarding racism, that's becoming less and less of an effective tool for those who support massive immigration, but I wonder what would happen if most of those illegal aliens were from, say, Indonesia. Would the NCLR, RN et al continue to push for illegal immigration?

Drug runners, massage parlor operators, and pimps spend a lot of money; does that mean we should promote those activities? Should RN really be promoting illegal immigration and its associated crimes (such as identity theft) in an attempt to keep our cities "humming"? Since one of the major reasons why we have illegal immigration is because of political corruption (politicians getting donations from corrupt corporations et al and then refusing to enforce the laws), aren't there huge downsides to keeping those cities "humming"?

The claim that "our native-born young people don't have the work ethic they did a generation or two ago" is not only false, it's an insult. And, it illustrates RN's lack of experience. Most teenagers do not have the "immigrant work ethic" described by RN in a previous article. However, I note that - while not discussed by RN - in many cases that "work ethic" is actually acutely desperate people forced to live 10 or 20 to an apartment - sometimes in shifts - and some are forced to camp out in backyards. I guess in RN's mind "work ethic" is a codeword for "Dickensian".

My God, the last thing you want is

the luxury of a maid or a nannie which used to be reserved for the ultra-wealthy being affordable to the middle class. What that means is a waste of human potential, it means the economy is so bogged down, that there is no work for the common man any more PRODUCTIVE than the cleaning of toilets and the wiping of babie's asses. In Latin America every Tom, Dick, and Harry can afford a Maid or a Nannie precisely because the economy of Latin American countries is so inefficient, so lacking in freedom, so bogged down by government intervention, that most ordinary Latin Americans can't find any other work more productive or more profitable than mopping floors and wiping babies asses!

Immigration Policy
Truth is, Mexico wants open borders one way. No immigration restrictions for them while maintaining one of the tightest of immigration policies there. Here's a thought: Eliminate ALL immigration restrictions between Mexico and the US. Let US entrprenuers own businesses in Mexico with no more restrictions than Mexicans open businesses here. Let Americans compete in the workplace, in the professions, in military and law enforcement, in education, in every economic and financial area. How long do you think it would be before the natural resources, the beauty, the accessibility to deep water ports, etc. were being owned and operated by Americans? Good jobs, low crime, booming economy . . . why would anyone want to leave? It won't happen because the ultra rich of Mexico won't let it happen. Poor Mexicans, uneducated and a drain on the pitiful Mexican economy are pushed north by the rich and powerful.

Closed borders and Open Immigration

Al, of the posters so far...
... are right on the peso, er, I mean money.

I really liked this line in Navarette's column: "Then, as now, the fear was that immigrants -- from Ireland or Italy -- wouldn't assimilate. And, of course, eventually they did."

The guy's obviously never set foot in Los Angeles. I feel like I'm living in a foreign country here.

The Great One, Ronald Reagan, in assessing his presidency years later, said that signing the 1986 version of amnesty was the biggest single mistake of his Presidency. Now Bush, in concert with the Dems and RINOs, wants to make the same mistake on an immensely larger scale.

It would be a disaster on an unimagineable scale for the future of the country.

Gotta correct my earlier post
When I was writing it, "alwaysquestion"s post wasn't there yet. I absolutely disagree with the drivel on the link in that essay, which I now quote:

"Entry into the U.S. should ultimately be free for any foreigner, with the exception of criminals, would-be terrorists, and those carrying infectious diseases...Every individual has rights as an individual, not as a member of this or that nation"

THAT is idiocy. We won't need to close the borders if we follow that insane policy, because they wouldn't mean anything any more.

What's the matter Brian

are you afraid a law abiding, self supportive, healthy, non-criminal, productive work seeking, Mexican would outcompete you? That's the kind of immigrant Closed borders and Open immigration would allow, if you read the article. Do you think because you were lucky enough to have been born in the US, you have rights others don't have and should be deinied? Are you afraid that someone not born here will outcompete you and the US government should protect you against his better talent?

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=576

Reality vs. The Con
This is the first honest and realistic post I've read on immigration in years.

For all the hype, here's the real "problem" with selling the idea that illegal immigration is so important to Americans that they will risk losing the war on terror to "make" the GOP close the borders.

1- The illegal immigration issue did not put more Reaganite type Conservatives on the GOP ticket in the primaries. Now either they couldn't find any OR most voters didn't think the immigration problem is that big of a deal.

2- "Real" Conservatives such as Santorum is fighting for their political life. I don't care how "blue" Santorum's state is...if he was addressing the major issues of his people, they'd give him an easy ride back. His opponent claims to share many of his beliefs--except one...guess which one? Yep bingo...immigration.

3- The taste of this being racist won't go away. Sorry, but when you try to tag the "national security" line on to the illegal issue but don't talk about putting a wall on the border of white Canada, racist is the only word that fits.

4- For most Conservatives, the idea of government closing the borders to protect jobs, labor, and hospitals reeks of liberalism. And again, hypocrisy is blatant and obvious.

The question being asked of Dems today is..."Do you want to win the war in Iraq?"

Here's my question to the Reaganites..."If you were President Bush and you were given two options:

1- Close the borders to our #1 and #2 trading partners and providers of oil...causing millions to lose their jobs and our economy to tank.

2- Upset a few people who refuse to call themselves Republicans anyway and cause a few people to make less money and a few hospitals to go under.

Which would you choose?

Yep, this IS a test of your honesty and intelligence.

About Reagan
I've written a 3 part post on Reagan in my blog (click on my name to read it).

But here's the bottom line. Demanding that Bush live up to the rewrite of Reagan is like a man trying to live up to his wife's dead husband's memory.

Dead people can't ever scr3w up again.

Live people almost always will.

Three points
1. Regarding assimilation: Years ago, Peter Brimelow (www.VDARE.com ) made the crucial point that the immigrants of "the great wave" assimilated BECAUSE THEY STOPPED COMING! With the immigration cut-off in 1924, the American people finally regained what they desperately wanted, control of their future. (The U.S. of the 1900s and 1910s was a mess because of mass immigration.) The lull allowed those huge cohorts to assimilate, since they weren't constantly being reinforced by new entrants.

That's not what's happening now. If anything, the inflows are accelerating and **we're** being forced to assimilate to the newcomers! (e.g. In many fairly plebian jobs, you can''t be hired now if you don't know Spanish.)

2. The paean to unfettered capitalism that "alwaysquestion" refers us to is unconvincing if one views a country as more than merely an economic market. And with the immigrants we're receiving from south of the border, the market he likes so much won't survive, anyway. It'll be overwhelmed by the socialist instincts and the welfare demands of the poverty legions we're letting in.

The purpose of the United States, well-expressed in the Preamble of the Constitution, is to benefit the citizens of the United States. For most of us, immigration brings economic burdens plus a deterioration in the non-economic aspects of our lives. We should end it. (Legal immigration, too, except for a few hundred superstars per year.)

3. Regarding our lazy teenagers. There may be something to this. But surely it's been driven, in part, by massive illegal immigration. Nowadays some jobs are **seen** as only fit for illegals. Plus, working conditions for Americans in those jobs have coarsened if they're still doing them: Being immersed among Spanish speakers, the very real antagonism of Hispanics for non-Hispanics, etc.

In short, illegal immigration is a problem we let fester for decades, and it's now metastasizing, so **everyone** is aware of it. Correspondingly, it can't possibly be fixed overnight. Certainly it would be highly disruptive if we deported ten million plus illegals in a week or a month or a year. But we have to attack the problem now to keep it from getting worse and, over time, to turn it around.

If we simply start enforcing our laws, self-deportations will pick up (a similar phenomenon is already happening in departures from Hazelton, PA just under the **threat** of new local laws against employers and landlords), and we'll have attrition through enforcement, as steadfastly recommended by Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies.

"Sanity 102" ...
... flunks his or her own test of intelligence with

"3- The taste of this being racist won't go away. Sorry, but when you try to tag the "national security" line on to the illegal issue but don't talk about putting a wall on the border of white Canada, racist is the only word that fits."

So I guess someone needs to say it, for the record at least: We're not being flooded with Canadians, since they have no urge to flee Canada, since it's a livable country. So why would we build a barrier on the border with Canada? Mexico, of course, is a failed state, and we need to protect ourselves from its unwanted population.

Do It Legally
I get so very furious when people argue that we need these millions of illegals. We do not NEED illegal aliens. If it is true that we need more unskilled workers in this country, fine. Then let's go about getting such people here LEGALLY.

With LEGAL immigration of unskilled workers, we have control over who comes and who doesn't. We have control over how many -- a number we can change from year to year to meet our needs. And we can offer this opportunity to people from around the globe -- something we can't do when we are under an invasion from a single country. Racist? No. Most unskilled labor is naturally going to come from poorer countries. Proximity does not make a poor Mexican any more deserving of the opportunity America provides than say, a Sudanese Christian who is poor AND persecuted.

But the first step has to be to stop the flood of illegal immigrants.

Oh, and for the record, the nanny/maid/cook/gardner in this household is an upper-middle class white woman. I am a college graduate and I am still smart enough to run a vaccuum cleaner. Go figure.

Up is down, right is left ...
... and illegal is legal.

Good argument. Don't like the law? Ignore it. That's what this nation was built on. Misrule of law -- rule of nonlaw -- well, you get it. A disregard for law. Like some third world country.

http://forgottenprophets.blogspot.com/2006/10/arguing-about-words.html

I'm sure an argument was made for slavery, too. But nations have rights, in the community of nations, as much as individuals have rights.

No Trespassing. This means you.

J

b.s. by any other name

expediency is what weak-minded people fall back on when law becomes too "troublesome" to enforce--which is why so many politicians, pundits and other Americans like to pretend there is hardly any difference between "legal" and illegal" immigrants.

to alwaysquestion
You said:
"Do you think because you were lucky enough to have been born in the US, you have rights others don't have and should be deinied?"

Answer: YES. It is called the Bill of Rights. If you, or someone else, CHOSE not to follow our immigration laws, then NO, you are NOT afforded the rights laid out by our U.S.A. Constitution. So sorry.

Note: By the way... the word is spelled... D E N I E D.

How to fix the illegal alien problem...
1. Stop the free handouts. Education, health care, social security, etc.

2. Heavily penalize the corporations that hire them.

3. Build fences in high-traffic areas.

4. Hire, train and equip our Border Patrol. And stop sending those to prison that apprehend illegal alien drug-runners!

5. Deport 1st time trespassers that we catch here illegally. Criminally charge repeat offenders and sentence them accordingly.

If we did these things, I think the problem would take care of itself.

What do you guys think?

Navarrette: A Pro Illegal Talking Head
Everyone who reads this Reconquista's intellectual garbage and gets angry should make a pledge. As long as people like him spew their one-sided logic on the wonders of illegal immigration the more we will resist double fold. He charges racism when out of his mouth his entire life he advocates for the power and advancement of one race, his own race. Hypocrite!! Never give in to an unjustified invasion that is illegal in the eyes of our laws. Never give up patriotic Americans. Our great countries prosperiety, culture, and national identity are at stake. Fight the good fight and never be swayed by America haters like Ruben Navarrette Jr.

rights and immigrants
Liberty, you're second post "How to fix the illegal alien problem.." I agree with mostly, except fencing in high traffic areas. The fences should be in remote areas, high traffic areas should be patrolled, putting the border patrol where they are needed most.
Your first post, though: Jefferson wrote, in the Declaration of Independence, All men are created equal, I take that too mean that all people have the same rights, regardless of citizenship. The difference is, that their rights are not protected by the Bill of Rights, as the rights of Americans are. Those that enter the country illegally forfeit their rights, by breaking the laws of the United States.

Immigration
Let's dispense with the "we are all immigrants" mantra. That is not true -sure someone in my family immigrated here in the early 1700s, but that was too long ago to hang an immigrant label on me, my father, my grandfather,or great grandfather. We were all born here. Early immigrants to this country came from established, working societies to a hostile land that promised only opportunity. There were no social programs they could dip into, few schools, and a lot of lawlessness and hostility. They did not come here to eat in the "big trough" of prosperity. Today's immigrants work, send their earned money home, and suck what freebies they can from the rest of us. Sure some will assimilate, most won't. Some will die crossing the desert to get here but they know what lies beyond. The American west is full of unmarked graves of valiant people who died chasing the unknown dream. Immigration today is different, costly, and unappreciated by the immigrants. Illegal immigrants are uninvited guests and just because they will pick up leaves ,they are not excused from crashing our party.

to raidencraig:
Your rant was a work of art. Thanks. Glad to know there is someone out there like you.

Who is this guy?
Don't we already have enough Townhall regulars trying to force illegal immigration down our throats, and attempting to make us feel guilty about opposing the Mexican Reconquista?

Did Townhall open an Office of Diversity when we weren't looking and decide to give voice to all the alleged conservatives that favor open borders?

Legalize the Irish
50,000 undocumented Irish immigrants are suffering from the same Know-Nothing attitude their countrymen suffered from during the 19th Century. The tough-talk do-nothing attitude of Congress threatens to destroy American-Irish communities across the nation.

Give these folks a chance to prove their worth by allowing them the opportunity to earn their way to legal status. The Senate's proposed path to earned legal status whcich calls for a criminal background check, payment of a stiff fine and any unpaid back taxes is tough medicine, not amnesty.

Support the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform.

Legalize the Irish!


The people don't buy it. Period.
Illegal immigration is just that. Open your home to illegals and all their family. How popular will that be. Even if they do tend your garden.

The people are becoming feed up with a gov't and those who obscure the obvious.

Existing laws (and they are not unfair) need to be enforced or we no longer are a nation of laws. What pap and abuse paid gov't officials inflict on its people.

The people are not buying it.


Sanity102
If your femoral artery is spewing blood at a pint a minute and you have a small cut on your left pinky, do you bandage them both at the same time? Given your comparison of the Mexican and Canadian borders, I conclude that you would. I wouldn't.

NAVARRETTE HAD MY INTEREST
For the first four paragraphs of his column. He was actually right on saying that last weeks signing of the bill that would allow the never going to happen construction of a 700 mile fence was nothing more than a photo-op for the President and his not so loyal band of stooges from Congress. Junior, you still had me when you said that very little was accomplished since the money to fully pay for the construction of this fence is no where to be found. Then your true colors came out loud and clear when you decided to tell us how good illegal aliens really are for our country, and specifically the American economy. What about the fact, that these in your opinion, well intended illegal workers are sending billions of American dollars back across the border to Mexico? and what little money the illegal worker does spend here in America either goes into the pockets of McDonald's or Taco Bell. Americans are forgiving people, and we have already through generations already witnessed how immigrants who entered this country legally over a hundred years ago lived their life the American way, paying their fair share amount taxes,learning to speak English, and not expecting the federal government to provide them with free health care. Legal immigration can and does work, the key word being LEGAL. By refusing to go through the procedure to enter this country and remain her legally is testimony enough about the character or lack of character that this new form of illegal aliens are bringing with them into our country. Mr. Navarrette, you also completely failed to mention the risk to our national security that these undocumented people pose to our country, how could you possibly write a column on immigration without mention of the potential threat that these illegal aliens bring with them when they are running around our streets and we have no idea who they are or what their up to. 3/4 of your column Mr. Navarrette could easily have been taken straight out of the pages of a article written by a move-on .org member or heard spoken by an attorney representing the views of the ACLU.

hntr admin
http://www.headsneedtoroll.org







A card carrying member of the ACLU, and TH should assign him to a post in Texas where he can write his columns and patrol our borders at the same time, what a bunch of crap!

"Immigrants" Picking Up the Slack
Good work guys. There are some excellent posts today shooting down all of the ridiculous liberal multi-cultural drivel that Mr. Navarette (who is this guy by the way and how did he ever get a column on Townhall) throws our way. Paul, I don't seem to recall seeing your name before, but you absolutely nailed it and I hope to read more from you again. And then there is Sanity102 still trying to convince us that nobody cares about this issue. And the most wacky of the wacky has got to be alwaysquestion. I guess he must come from the anarchy wing of the libertarian party. I used to think I was a libertarian until I discovered that a lot of libertarians hold the same views as I think he is espousing. And that's why I continue to hold out hope that the Republican Party can somehow capture most of the small government ideas of the libertarians, yet retain the belief that America is about more than just an invisible geographic entity.

There are many things I would like to pick apart from this article, but I'll settle on the following comment as being the most outrageous:

"Our dependence on illegal immigrant labor, combined with the fact that -- according to research such as a September 2006 study by the Center for Immigration Studies -- most of the job displacement has occurred with younger workers, confirms what Americans suspected: that, along with modern-day advances, our native-born young people don't have the work ethic they did a generation or two ago and that illegal immigrants pick up the slack."

Actually, I consider this statement to be mostly true; but unlike Mr. Navarette, I consider this to be a bad and undesirable thing. Do we really want to continue with a policy that eats at the work ethic of our young people? Have we conceded our collective work ethic, especially among our adolescent and younger workers, as unsavable and not worth fighting to retain. I worked construction and landscaping jobs from High School through college and if nothing else, it at least taught me why I was going to college -- so I wouldn't have to do that backbreaking work for the rest of my life. And more importantly it taught me a strong work ethic and to respect those that performed these jobs. I truly believe that there is no job that is below one's dignity especially if the pay is right (as determined by market conditions), and that our explosion of illegal workers has only reinforced the notion of jobs that are demeaning and undignified.

I believe that a society that is incapable of doing the hard and dirty jobs is one that will eventually suffer, decay, and self-destruct. The Roman empire provides one example with the slaves and captured combatants that became the underclass of people performing the jobs that were beneath the dignity of the average Roman citizen. Saudi Arabia is a modern day example. During my rather limited interactions with Saudi Arabian society during my tour of duty in Desert Storm, I saw that all of the hard and dirty jobs were basically being performed by Philipinos, Vietnamese, and Africans that were brought to that country for that specific purpose -- they may have even outnumbered the Saudis in their own country, because a country of such immense oil wealth certainly couldn't be bothered with the mundane tasks of life such as cleaning a house and taking care of their children. And I sort of felt like the hard and dirty task of defending their nation was also outsourced to the American military. They were just too pathetic to protect themselves from foreign threats just as they were too pathetic to wash their own clothes.

I also find it amazing that the very same people that want to brand conservatives as xenophobes, racists, or nativists have no problem with a culturally distinct underclass of workers performing jobs they deem as beneath the dignity of native-borns. They all seem to be in favor of "guest" worker plans that among its many faults gives us some kind of parrallel yet inferior level status of resident in this country that in many ways resembles a form of slavery or indentured servitude. But hey Mr. Navarrette, at least it allows our native born kids more time for Nintendo and their cell phones.

How do these guys get a platform?
Why aren't they ridiculed out of business? Deception drips from the title of this article until the conclusion. Instead of simply saying, "I favor illegals in this country," your made to read a convoluted bunch of malarkey and then left trying to figure out what you've read.

Ok, Mr. Narrvatte. Your acting like the man during the civil war who didn't want to take sides so he put on a Union jacket and Confederate pants and ended up getting shoot from both sides.


Lies
This article is total BS. The hispanic immigrants and their children are NOT assimilating at all. Instead they refuse to learn our language and traditions. Doing so keeps them at arms length from the rest of our country as they form hispanic only communites and stores where english is NOT the spoken language.

I agree on only one point, and that is that the real things that need addressing are not being taken care of. Such as punishing places that hire and house these people. There are many steps we can take that would stop the problem dead in its tracks. The problem is that both parties want to exploit the other and we have long past the point in this country where we can discuss serious issues as adults.

In PA a community got together to put an end to this problem. CNN wrote a hit piece against those residents and tried to drum up sympathy for the Aliens (Tell me there is no bias when hit piece like this is done right before the election). However CNN and the other libs got their way and a judge stopped the law for now from coming into effect. This judge should be disbarred but that is a topic for another day.


No conservative
Senor Navarrette not only is not a conservative, he wants to Mexicanize the United States of America. It's surprising that he's published on this site.

"AlwaysQuestion". Are you nuts?
Competition? First of all, any philosophy that grants universal rights, as recognized in this country, to everybody in the world, essentially saying "Hey, we're all Americans here, come on over" is beyond insane. That idiotic column essentially took the position that any borders are "illegal" and anyone should have the opportunity to move to any country they choose at any time they want.

That is hilariously childish. The real world isn't some 1970s Pepsi commercial or a "We Are the World" rock concert.

The columnist who wrote that linked essay is beyond being stuck on stupid; he needs to check what he's been smoking.

You've Been Infiltrated!
So now Town Hall has been infiltrated by a leader of "La Raza," who called Pat Buchanan an "ugly racist" in the San Diego Union.
I exposed this hack "writer" in print--as I am now doing once again--to expose him for the Mechista he really is.
The Readers of Town Hall need not pay attention to any thoughts from this local-yokel, big-time wanna-be.
Ruben Navarrette is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the Mexican invasion of America. His loyalties lie with Mexico alone. He is not a conservative, but an infiltrator from Aztlan.

Liberty is correct on this issue
Liberty, I don't know you but on this issue, we agree. We may find that we are opposite on everything else but on illegal immigration, we do agree.

The recent Bush signing for a 700 mile fence (but no money for it) is such a slap in the face that if we all don't now understand that that Bush is definitely not for secure borders, then we should all go soak our heads. The man is completely "wrong" on this issue and the majority of US citizens see this problem with him.

Leftist propaganda
Ruben Navarrete is wrong in his analysis about illegal immigration. As an legal Hispanic immigrant, I have in contact in a daily basis with illegal immigrants whose only goal is to make money, send it to Mexico, drink some beers, listening to Mexican rancher music, sleep and start over the next day. I never met sometone who honestly could tell me that he came in to America to learn English, assimilate to the American culture, and respect the laws of this country.
Navarrete is trying to portrait illegal immigration as something that is beneficila to the American people. The truth of the matter is that Navarrete is so politically correct that he does not want to deal with the real issues. If he wants to be real, then he should write a letter to the those so called Hispanic leaders and tell them to stop playing the "race" card and send a warning to illegal Mexicans not to come to USA unless they get a visa.

Navarrette's column
The argument about immgrants from the past i.e. the Italians, Polish, the Irish being the same as the present Mexican invasion is weak at best. The before mentioned ethnic groups assimilated because a generation later, their home countries economies improved. There wasn't a reason to immigrate, therefore the previous immigrants were able to get their bearings and catch up, their children graduated from high school, and later generations graduated from college and became part of the American mainstream.
This will never happen with Mexico EVER! For every Mexican American who gets a leg up in this country and makes something of himself, there are 500 Mexicans, desperately poor that just arrived. Mexico unlike Ireland, Poland or Italy will never improve, if anything it's getting worse by the day. You have a group of people who have no interest in going to college, let alone graduating from high school. Their biggest goal in life is to have as many children as they can and taking a 177 month loan on a Ford Expedition with $5,000 worth of rims and tires.
Navarette thinks some how a people with these values becoming a majority is a good thing? LOL I read Navarette in the San Francisco Chronicle, my question is why is he on Townhall.com because he sure as hell isn't conservative!

Paul:
"So I guess someone needs to say it, for the record at least: We're not being flooded with Canadians, since they have no urge to flee Canada, since it's a livable country. So why would we build a barrier on the border with Canada? Mexico, of course, is a failed state, and we need to protect ourselves from its unwanted population."

But Paul...I thought this was about "National Security" not "unwanted population".

Part 2 in this test of intelligence...if you were a terrorist...would you cross liberal Canada or throw-your-butt-in-jail-unless-you- bribe-me Mexico?

Try again...why is the immigration issue more important than making sure our military gets proper funding...that we keep tax cuts that keeps the whole country working...or changing the courts?

response to above
I'm not sure if people are characterizing the article correctly. What I got from it was an expression that the government is failing to address the issue and doing that because it is failing to address the sub-issues. I didn't see the writer as espousing some of the views he is being accused of having.
I think immigration is being handled in a stupid manner and building a fence is throwing money away in an attempt to pretend the real issues are being dealt with. Those real issues are economic and other drivers that are pushing these people over our borders. If we are incapable of dealing with those issues, which I think we are unless we are allowed to run the government of Mexico, then we need to decide what we really want by open discussion of the sub-issues. Then, make a decision and act on it. I don't feel we have, and I get the sense that was the point of the article.I don't think the author was saying to let everyone in, he was saying our actions are doing that while our political response is in actuality a lack of a response.
Does anyone really know what we can do to keep people out? Absolutely we need to define legal & illegal and enforce our laws. We need to decide as a nation what level of legal immigration we want and figure out how to maintain that level. I'm not so sure billions spent on fences and border patrols is any different than billions spent on welfare type packages for illegals. Why not just refuse public expenditures for illegals; I have never understood why we pay for their healthcare, etc., anyway. Just say no. The doctors I go to have signs in their offices saying you have to pay today!
Also, I'd like to see more of Paul, you seem pleasantly unusual in your post: literate, articulate and well-reasonsed without attacking anyone. I read the Internet to learn from your kind.

The Ruben Navarrette TownHall facade
At this point anyone who states that the barrier will not reduce immigration at this point is clearly either a fool or a liar. In this column Navarrette shows himself to be something in between. He says, "...barriers only squeeze more illegal immigrants through those parts of the border that aren't fenced off." Technically true but highly misleading. His wording clearly leaves the reader with the impression that the fence will not affect the numbers of illegal immigrants. Navarette is without any possible doubt a conniving manipulator of words. He is a sophist. And he is a sophist for the invasion of our country.

Navarette's comment about Canada's border being in any way equivalent to the Mexican border is a comment that can only insult Town Hall readers. He is actually accusing most of us of being racists. TownHall allows him to do this. So we have to ask ourselves. Why did TownHall invite Navarrette to this site and why now that so many readers have indicated in posts that we find him repulsive is he kept on? Just as the invasion dilutes American Culture, Navarette is being allowed to invade and dilute the Conservative message of TownHall.

HERE'S AN IDEA TO FIX IT ALL
Round up ALL the illegals in the US and put them on the mexican side of the fences and have them build it. When they finish the job...LOCK THE GATE!

Just trying to fire up the base
All this joker is trying to do is fire up the GOP base by ticking them off. Get them thinking about the immigration issue so they'll show up and vote for the GOP candidates, even though they won't do anything about immigration.

I'm telling you, we are being hoodwinked right out of our liberties.

Financial impact in reality
Navarrette's idiotic column paints a rosy picture of the financial trade offs, as he sees them.

Well here's the pig behind the lipstick:

Most illegals send the majority of the money they earn back to their country of origin. Out here in Mexifornia, that amounts to over $5 Billion per year. That's $5 Billion NOT being taxed, or spent in the local economy. $5 Billion taken out of the economic picture of the state. And that's just THIS state. I've read estimates that the national figure could be as high as $50 Billion!

That's EXACTLY the same thing as a hidden tax on Californians of $5 Billion per year. In addition to our infrastructure being destroyed by the demands placed upon it by illegal aliens draining the purses of healthcare, education, the criminal system, etc.

Over 20% of the prisoners in Cali prisons are illegal aliens.

This has got to STOP.

Uh, hellooooo!
"Navarette is being allowed to invade and dilute the Conservative message of TownHall."

You can count the conservative aspects of Townhall on two hands. The rest of it is "mainstream".

BrianR
"That's EXACTLY the same thing as a hidden tax on Californians of $5 Billion per year."

Only if the tax were paid to Mexico.

Jer: No
By moving that money to Mexico, and removing it from the local economy, it is removed from circulation here. That's the same thing, if not worse, than being Hoovered up by the G in overt taxes.

At least taxed money ends up being spent here on something. Those funds are just being outright robbed from the economy.

4freedom:
Amen Hermano!

As a first generation American whose mother came across the Atlantic, speaks perfect English (there wasn't a huge city within a city full of her pisanos for her to isolate herself in) and doesn't have any other flag in her posession except an American one, I am offended by the rhetoric that I hear from the so called "immigrants rights" movement, and RN Jr. is no different. He sounds exactly like a water carrier for Ted "Si Se Puede Nadar" Kennedy.

You need to be an immigrant in the first place to demand rights. My mother came here with an 8th grade education, no money, and during the time well before Ted Kennedy's first 1964 immigration bill that quintupled legal immigration.

If my mother could do it, so can anybody. America has some of the most liberal immigration laws in the world, but since it's not good enough for some, they feel they have a right to just trample all over our laws and then demand a free pass.

And the fact is, before anyone plays the race card, where I live, we have a bunch of Russians that are basically illegals. I'd support their deportation as well. Not out of "xenophobia" ( word the left uses to describe anti illegal immigration hispanics), but out of simple respect for a lawful society.

Instead of crashing the gate, they overstay their visas and crash the back door, so to speak. I'd like to see them gone even more than the ones from south of the border since at least I can communicate in Spanish.

But I don't expect anyone else to have to learn a foreign language just because I have. I see this as a huge problem. Why should someone that is coming here from, say, India need to learn English and Spanish to get a job? Is it possible that some of our Russian comrades aren't working because they thought English would be sufficient when they came over here?

Oh, and BTW, I've heard chatter lately about Russian women being attractive. I haven't seen any proof yet.


RaidenCraig: LOL
Freedom! The best way to start the day!

I saw his votes fall, too. Heh heh heh

Thanks for the kind words, my friend.

Not everybody's going to agree on everything (Iraq again, you and me, Hermano -- I'm practicing for La Raza).

That's what's so great about this country, because none of us are going to end up standing against a wall and looking down the barrels of a bunch of guns because of our opinions.

Language
When my grandparents came from Sweden to the US (my grandfather arrived in 1906) they brought along their Swedish culture. My father and his brother learned Swedish in the home. However, their parents also taught them English and they were expected to use English outside of the home unless they were visiting Grandma's parents, who (having immigrated late in life) spoke little English. If they spoke Swedish outside the home, they'd get a lecture about being rude. In school, they spoke English because it was required. They were required to read and write in English. They were Americans of Swedish descent, not Swedish Americans.

My father taught me a few phrases in Swedish, but my mother was of Irish and Indian descent, so did not speak Swedish and I never learned the language. I speak Spanish and American Sign Language far better than I speak Swedish. Dad would not be sad that I am an American rather than a Swedish American. He would probably laugh and point out that I look a lot more Irish than Swedish, so why should I regret not having held onto my Swedish culture?

The point is that I am third-generation American and except for a Swedish cookie recipe and putting candies in my kids' shoes for St. Lucia's Day, I am completely assimilated.

My pastor has a similar family history, only his grandparents (on both sides) came from Mexico, so he is fluent in Spanish and has maintained a lot of Mexican traditions. He, however, considers himself an American of Mexican descent. He tells how his father served on the board of education for Del Rio, Texas, and used to protest a program that we would call "bi-lingual" education today. They would take the children of Mexican immigrants who spoke poor English when they started school and divert them into a program where they would learn almost no English. These students would become "failures" in the school system and be directed into jobs as ranch and farm hands and maids. The argument would always be (and this was back in the 1950s and 60s) that forcing these children to learn English would deny them their culture. My pastor's father, an American businessman who spoke both fluent English and Spanish, disagreed. The program was eventually discontinued.

Assimilation will only happen if we let it. Assimilation will happen faster if we insist upon it. It doesn't mean that immigrants must give up their language and culture. It simply means they must adopt the language and become familiar with the culture of the US.

And, while we're at it, maybe some of us ought to be teaching our childrent that the US DOES have a culture of its own. Not so long ago, I mentioned something about American culture in a group of my daughter's friends and was told that we don't have a culture, which is why we're culturally inferior to other countries. I enjoyed re-informing these children that their teachers are stupid, but it really drove home to me that we need to start celebrating American culture because we deserve the assessment if we're too busy rushing to the mall and watching TV to teach our culture to our children.

Let him speak
'Why is this idiot on Townhall.com'

As to Mr. Navarrette being on Townhall.com, I am one who would advocate that Mr. Navarrette be allowed a wide audience for his argument, as the more people who see his arguments, the more will be exposed to the fallacies inherent in his arguments when they are knocked down

Such As:

'Today's immigrants are not so different from those who came to America from Europe a century ago'

The inference of this argument being that not only are the immigrants 'not so different', but America too is 'not so different' than a century ago.

Mr. Navarrette does not comment on the fact that the immigrants of a century ago largely gave birth to their children at home as opposed to the illegal immigrants who are giving birth to their children at Parkland Hospital today.

'The average patient in Parkland's maternity wards is 25 years old, married and giving birth to her second child'. She is also an illegal immigrant.

US taxpayers will also most likely pick up the bill for this birth.

Mr. Navarrette does not comment on the fact that a century ago there was effectively _no_ federally mandated law which stated that immigrants must attend school, and there _certainly_ was no federal law that said that illegal immigrants, and the children of illegal immigrants, _must_ attend school, and US taxpayers _must_ pay for it.

Mr. Navarrette does not comment on the fact that a century ago this country was a manufacturing powerhouse, and not the predominantly low-wage service economy that it is today. Mr. Navarrette wants to advocate for flooding this country with low-skilled people with almost no education, specifically targeting those job sectors which have undergone the highest displacement of workers over the past twenty years.

Mr. Navarrette does not comment that most of the job sectors into which illegal immigrants are flooding are currently experiencing unemployment rates of about ten percent.

Mr. Navarrette comments on our being 'a nation of immigrants' yet an overriding majority of the people in the United States were born _in this country_ which makes Mr. Navarrette's comment not only syntactically false but highly misleading.

Mr. Navarrette comments 'young people don't have the work ethic they did a generation or two ago and that illegal immigrants pick up the slack'. Mr. Navarrette _does_ not comment that many of those illegal immigrants 'picking up the slack' are doing it for slave wages.

Mr. Navarrette comments '[illegal immigrants] let Americans fulfill their earning potential while making accessible to the middle class what used to be considered luxuries reserved for the wealthy, such as nannies and maids'.

Mr. Navarrette _does_ not comment that the _very_ same arguments he uses to justify illegal immigration could also be used to justify slavery.

Let's provide a chance for citizenship..
Secure the border, deport all of the illegals with a proviso that we will give them a path to citizenship and a place her...at the end of the line. If that is not acceptable then deport them all with no path to citizenship.

My relatives in Wales have been waiting 8 years but I guess they are really dumb for following the law.

Regarding the illegal's contribution it comes no where near the cost of having them here. This is further aggravated by reduced wages for real citizens, crime, and idiotic movements to provide ESL in our schools.

Put those guys to work!
They want to work? I love the idea of making THEM build the fence. Paying them all their worth and then charging them to deport them all back.

To keep them from coming back we need to...

Punish those who employee and house them.
Deny services such as medical, schooling, and food.
Charge them for deportation.

Doing these things will fix the problem fast. Much faster than a fence.

After doing all that then take a look at how many we let over here on a regualar basis and decide if it is an acceptable number and look for ways to tweak it if needed..

Look at the skills and such they must have to come to find out if it is aceptable.

Make it clear that they MUST be coming to assimilate meaning they learn our language and culture.

Make it clear they MUST be productive members of our society. This means holding gainfull employment and no troubles with the law.

These are the REAL things we must do to take care of this problem. Anything short of everything I just listed will be a failure.

Guest worker program
After deporting all of the illegals a guest worker program could be set up similar to Saudi Arabia where the worker only (no family, no relatives, not even a pet mouse) is allowed to come and work. Housing provided in camps and no free movement within the community.

That would be a guest worker program as opposed to another amnesty and future illegals streaming into the country.

Harsh? Tough!

Listen Y'all
Frankly, I enjoyed reading Ruben's article. It is just one man's opinion among many.

I have never posted on this site mainly because it really doesn't make a bit of difference...I read all of your posts and usually wind up laughing. Some of you really have a lot of hate in your heart...it's painfully obvious. Others of you, by using big words that most people never hear on a daily basis, are obviously in need of some professional help or something. You need some one on one time somewhere else where someone can sit and listen to you, not here on these posts...I don't have a thesarus handy.

Others talk about an American culture...I've lived here all of my life...when you find out exactly what that is please repost.

By the way, how fun would life be without having someone to disagree with.

God Bless

Jake: Why thank you for your...
... oh, so condescending comment to all here.

I'm sure we're all just itching to bow in the direction of your home, like Muslims toward Mecca, so why don't you just give us a hint of what direction we should face?

It's always such a joy to have one's faults pointed out by their betters. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

What does everyone think?
I guess to start out, it's obvious that RN can't admit what he knows deep down in his heart - that the Mexicans coming here as illegal immigrants are poor, mainly, and aren't very well educated. See, the main problem is that they suck many more resources than they could ever pay for by the fact of medical care, education, and the many nother costs that they incur. I speak fluent spanish, and was raised around hispanics all my life, and so I'm probably more familiar than most with the culture. The Mexican government is conducting a low intensity war against the USA, but they are using women and children as an economic weapon. The cold hard fact is that every dollar they suck out of our country makes us a little weaker. I'm all for repressive measures that starve these invaders out, and send them back home.

Neither Party will control the border.
All of the brilliant observations on this particular forum, no matter the viewpoint, are moot.

Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans care about securing our border because their collective intention, clearly, is to erase our borders with Mexico and Canada. This is no longer the rant of a bunch of conspiracy whackos, it is real and it is here. Even CNN's Lou Dobbs made an effort to give the deaf and dumb in America a heads-up. The "Security and Prosperity Partnership" (SPP) has been adopted jointly by President Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin, and former Mexican President, Vincente Fox. This is the ground-breaking agreement leading to the North American Union, modeled after the European Union. We'll be one big borderless State with a single currency, unlimited immigration, no security, and no sovereignty.

Our tax dollars have already paid for the early planning for the "Trans-Texas Highway", a 2,400' wide 10 lane, concrete corridor to carry Chinese built goods from ports in Central America to the U.S. and Canada. Personally I'm wondering where all of the environmental protesters are hiding. You'd think any concientious environmentalist would be hemorrhaging over the thought of this behemoth piece of pavement that will destroy hundreds of thousands of acres of "habitat".

Four brave but obscure U.S. Congressmen, Virgil Goode (VA), Ron Paul (TX), Walter Jones (NC), and Tom Tancredo (CO) are making efforts to keep our Republican President from doing an end-run around Congress. I think most Congressmen are probably in on the action. Puzzles me why you guys aren't discussing this.


open borders are racist
The idea that latinos are being encouraged to come to America to do the jobs "Americans don't want to do" is racist.

Why should "latinos," or "hispanics," gather disproportionately at the bottom of the pay scale?

If our society is to be just, the distribution of income among various categories of people based on language, nationality, race, religion, gender or whatever else should be proportionate. If that is not the case, then racism or some other form of discrimmination is occuring, and society must correct it. It seems millions of immigrants crossing the border from Mexico defeats this goal, because the data is sure to tell us income levels, high school drop out rates, english proficiency, number incarcerated, etc., is on the increase among the hispanic category of persons. Hence, immigration results in racism.

Sure, Irish, Italian, Polish, Chinese and other groups entered this country performing low paying jobs, however, our values were different a century ago. Racism was tolerated then, it is not now. Likewise, despite other groups of immigrants in the U.S. performing low paying jobs, its certain that the numer of "hispanic" or "latino" immigrants will enter in a far greater number, thus, hispanics are disproportionately injured by the U.S. permitting hundreds of thousands of migrants to cross from Mexico every year and settle in the U.S. Unless of course those individuals are prepared to take their place immediately in middle or upper class.

If the problem being addressed is a lack of low skilled workers needed to fill low paying jobs, those workers should called upon from a diverse group of Americans. Not one race, language group, ethnicity, nationality, or what have you.



VOTE:
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO FOR GOD, FAMILY AND COUNTRY


IS TO VOTE!!!


Not just when you have the time to do it, but at every opportunity that is given to you to do it.

If you do not vote, you are leaving your, and your families, fate in the hands of others. A low turnout on Election Day means that a fervent, well organized minority point of view can easily win and push this nation in a direction it might not want to go. The Iraqi people recognized this when 12 million people (almost 80% of the registered voters) faced threats of death from just such a fervent “terrorist” group and voted for democracy; a concept they didn’t quite understand but knew that its liberties would be far better than the tyranny that such a minority group would establish, given the chance.

So when you vote, make sure you know for what you are voting, and the repercussions that might result from an uninformed decision. Find time to study the issues and be committed to them before you choose. Know what groups have opinions and beliefs similar to yours and see what their recommendations on the issues are. Conversely, see what the opinions of those groups you oppose are and study their recommendations, then cast your vote wisely.

Late last night, when this
column appeared, I knew it would be just a matter of time before TH readers would give Mr. Navarrette a run for the money. Posters you did not disappoint! Thank you for showing this questionably conservative columnist (ha!)the stupidity of his argument. He has been featured in our local paper for some time (probably because we live in a Democrat stronghold with +50% Latino population!) so I knew before he ever showed up on TH what political leanings he had. One of his earlier newspaper columns was all about his pride at being a "Hispanic-American." I emailed him to tell him that using hyphens to describe heritage is just plainly divisive to say nothing about being unnecessary, with the sole exception to bring attention to yourself or your race. How many people to you know go around saying they are "German-Americans", "Danish-Americans, "Cuban-Americans," "English-Americans",etc.? If you live here legally in America you are simply an American! I then told Mr. Navarrette about the number of Mexican (not necessarily offspring of illegals) kids in my son's school who refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance, refused to attend school on Cinco-de-Mayo, can barely talk/read English (and are not encouraged to given that most everything is written or voice mailed in English and Spanish...including microwave directions on frozen food!)and openly showed disdain for this great county and all it has given them (including taxpayer funded free services.) I cannot recall whether Mr. Navarrette responded to my email or not. I do know that is when I realized he was most definitely not a conservative writer by any stretch of the imagination. I found this comes in handy when and if you take the time to read his columns. So TH posters, THANK YOU for reading Mr. N the riot act over his latest column!

To All Mex-Loving Libs
Hey you pabulum puking liberals! Get a clue about what being a real American is all about by clicking on the link to this cartoon I made below. Finally a something that explains what we are Republicans are all about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELfiVTTb5Jw

Alwaysquestion
What makes you think you have any right to give MY BIRTHRIGHT to a foreign citizen?
Try to claim HIS BIRTHRIGHT for yourself and you will end up weaving hammocks in a Mexican prison!

AND on the subject of prisons;
About a third of our prison population is ILLEGAL aliens.
They have no right in this country either and we should take bids for their foreign lodging and BAR NO BIDS.
We would have far fewer drug dealers and violent Mexicans in this country if they knew they would end up in a Haitian cane field instead of a plush American prison. Or maybe even a Chinese Slave factory.

paul:
"If our society is to be just, the distribution of income among various categories of people based on language, nationality, race, religion, gender or whatever else should be proportionate."

And you want the government to do the proportioning? Doesn't sound Conservative to me.

Neither does your argument aspousing job protection. In fact, looking toward the government to solve society's problems smacks of Liberalism...

Let's try this one more time...why is the immigration issue MORE important than the funding for our troops, the tax cuts, and the courts?

Dangerous Dave
Your post pretty much says it all, except that any positive things the illegal aliens do can be done by legal aliens on some sort of a work program. Cheap wages? Make it legal to employ aliens at less than the minimum wage. Assimulate? Make English the sole legal language of the land and limit the time they can stay without military service to say, six months. That's how they handled the flood of refugees wanting to flee a bombed out Europe in 1945, and most of these people were educated middle/upper class. The whole wretched mess can be fixed by enforcing existing law, with the addition of anything required to enforce control, such as a biometric ID card. The whole problem is a result of payoffs from short sighted employers and any legislator who doesn't support effective enforcement, from Bush to a rookie staffer, is on the take.

Lets get rid of
RN by giving his stuff one check, as BrianR suggests.

Superscalar... slavery
superscalar wrote:

"Mr. Navarrette _does_ not comment that the _very_ same arguments he uses to justify illegal immigration could also be used to justify slavery."


I've pondered the connection of this, super. The fact is, using illegal labor is probably a better deal than slave owners had two hundred years ago. Think about it:

With a slave, there was a big initial investment. You had to purchase the slave. With illegals, you don't You may have to lay out a couple hundred dollars, but that is miniscule compared to what a slave cost back in the early 19th century in today's dollars. Then you had to make sure the slave was fed, clothed, received proper care, etc. After so many years, if the slave was getting old or sick, they were given their freedom. With an illegal, you just hire another one.

If slavery were legal today, I bet the slave trade lobby would be harping to close the border because it's cutting in on their livelihood.

raidencraig
CULTURE more important than winning the war? more important than the tax cuts? the SCOTUS?

Then you must hate Reagan because the man put America's "culture" on the back burner to cozy up with the Soviets to fight space invaders...

As for RINOs...the only Republican In Name Only I see here is people like you...who look to the government to solve problems.

And unfortunately for the House and politicians like Santorum that believed the RINOs that the immigration propblem was the all important issue...they are facing a united Democrat party with only a fractured GOP to back them up.

Good show RINO...and tell me all about your culture after the Dems take over.


The Real Immigration Issues
Ruben, I’ve read articles you’ve written about immigration, both illegal and legal. While I agree with you that politicians play political games, I also believe you wouldn’t be so impassioned about legalizing Mexicans if your surname wasn’t Navarrette. You may suffer from the same malady you attribute to others; i.e., racism.

You’re correct in saying today’s immigrants are not so different from those who came to America from Europe a century ago. However, today there are impediments to assimilation, such as Spanish-speaking media, that provide a cocoon wherein immigrants can exist short of assimilation. Further, when asked about illegal aliens assimilating to American culture and values, a Hispanic politician in the California state legislature responded by saying the American culture is evolving. That’s not the answer Americans want to hear. Immigration is a privilege, not a right. Americans simply ask that immigrants become Americans with American values. But when you see unregulated numbers of illegal aliens and their supporters marching in the streets demanding rights they don’t have; marching with Mexican flags (and American flags upside down); booing the American national anthem at soccer games; spreading diseases in our schools and communities; committing a high rate of crime; causing economic havoc with taxpayers trying to keep hospitals open and schools staffed, etc., Americans get nervous.

And the politics of this isn’t isolated with politicians in Washington. Racist ethnic groups such as La Raza (the race), MALDEF, LULAC and worse are more focused on race and ethnicity than they are concerned about what it means to be American. This is underscored by their lack of criticism of sending countries such as Mexico. Many of these immigrants, both legal and illegal, would likely prefer to stay in their home countries if conditions were better. But because of corrupt leaders their prospects are very limited. The groups above purport to be speaking for all Americans with Spanish surnames. They get away with it because they are organized and can deliver money and votes to politicians.

I’ve known and worked with many Americans with Spanish surnames. They are Americans first. They are impacted the same as other Americans, sometimes more so. And since they don’t have organizations representing them, their voices get lost in debates and subsequent decisions. To many the cheap labor isn’t cheap. In addition to the increased taxes required to cover the cost of services for illegal aliens, their wages and even their own jobs are directly jeopardized by the unregulated influx of cheap labor.

The Jesse Jacksons of the country have played the race card very effectively. However, that effectiveness is not as intimidating as it once was. There will always be people at the fringe, both left and right, of every issue. You and your effectiveness would be better served by elevating your discussion of issues relating to immigration. Americans should join together as Americans, not hyphenated Americans, to demand politicians pass laws that don’t negatively affect Americans, and that they enforce whatever laws they pass. That starts with first getting control.

Jack Hartsoch

me, me, me
Raidencraig-
I did not ask him to create yet another boondoggle entitlement--Rx care for seniors, 90% of whom have no semblance of need for help.

Nope but some seniors did vote for Bush for that reason, that's part of the point, you absolutely cannot have a single conservative policy executed without control of a single legislative body.

These are linked of course, so if the President does something popular then the congressmen and senators of his party get to bask in his glory.

This means that the Republicans must appeal to over 50% of the voting public ie those that do choose to cast a vote. Admittedly it is a little more complex, but for our sake this will do.

So back to immigration. Eloquent Jack states:

In addition to the increased taxes required to cover the cost of services for illegal aliens, their wages and even their own jobs are directly jeopardized by the unregulated influx of cheap labor.

The first point is just simply wrong. I guess this is part of the political games that Jack despises so much, where a state having wasted most of its budget finds illegals a convenient scapegoat as of course they will not impact on returning that administration to power.

His second point suggests job protection, which is is stating that Americans need legislation to keep their jobs and are therefore by extension, somehow inferior to mexican immigrants.

Lastly you made the point:

As Neal Bortz noted just today, there is virtually no difference between RINOS and 'Crats.
Arlen Specter?! Chaffee?! And those selling us out for Latino votes/influence $-- Dubya, Quisling McCain, Frist, Graham, Brownback, Hagel, et al ad nauseam?!

Bingo! The more you impale the republican party on the libertarian sword, the further they will move to the center. Therefore, might I suggest supporting the conservative party in power and so assure them that they do not need to seek moderate politics in order to keep them in power. After all if they have lost your vote, then there are plenty of Reagan democrats who can be recruited.


IMMIGRATION
Contrary to what we are told, there are profound differences between immigration today and a century ago.

A century ago, Europeans had to pay their own way to the USA. They knew before they left on the ships that they would have to have health examinations and would be sent home if they had serious communicable diseases. They knew also that there was no welfare state so they would be on their own in the USA. Learning English and assimilating was regarded as a civic duty.

A century ago, there would never have been episodes such as teens raising the Mexican flag above the American flag turned upside down as was the case in Montebello or raising the Mexican flag above the Post Office in Maywood.

Today, because of the 14th Amendment loophole and the growth of the welfare state, American-born children of illegal aliens are automatically citizens and thus eligible for AFDC, Medicaid, Food Stamps, etc. It should be remembered that the 14th Amendment was created to protect black children in the aftermath of the 1857 Dred Scott Decision.

Today, ideas about learning English and assimilating are considered racist by many.

Today, diseases that Americans have not seen for a few generations have made a comeback, most notably drug resistent strains of TB, measles, and polio.

It should be remembered that a sizeable number of Mexican citizens are still angry that the United States conquered the Southwest in the Medican-American War of 1846-1848. The United States paid a huge economic settlement to Mexico for the Southwest after the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo on February 2, 1848. This anger is reflected in the existence of LaRaza, Mexica, Reconquista, and the like.

It should be remembered also that the Conquistadors were people who came to the New World in search of gold and plundered everything. Mexico has a rigid European style class structure, massive corruption, and a crazy quilt of a legal system that guarantees that the vast majority of people will live in abject poverty for generation after generation. There is no merit. Mexico has magnificent scenery, beaches, historical treasures, and vast natural resources and could be another Canada or USA with good management.

We are told our food prices will soar without cheap labor. However, it should be remembered that the mere presence of cheap labor has halted automation that should have happened long ago. When you drive across the fields of Monterey County on Highway 101, it is notable that the fields look much the way they looked 30 years ago. There should be robots in the fields by now.

A look back at history is instructive. Time was when the two most common occupations in Europe were copyist and soldier. Books were laboriously hand copied and thus available only to the very rich and the church. Large armies of soldiers carried shelds and swords. When the bubonic plague epidemic wiped out most of the European population during the Middle Ages, along came two major technical advances: gunpowder and the Gutenberg moveable type. Gunpowder made it possible for fewer soldiers to bring about more destruction and the Gutenberg moveable type made books available to more people.


Cynthia tucker sells-out African America
http://www.controlcongress.com

Cynthia used her voice today, at the Atlanta Journal Constitutional editorial page to rant about anyone who dares attempts to enforce our immigration laws. Her article used stereo types and no facts to support that our economy would collapse without an unlimited supply of illegal immigrants. Even the most liberal open border economist like Paul Krugman admits that illegal immigration is a drain on our economy.

Cynthia lets talk about facts. African Americans have been the biggest victims of illegal immigration and many do not support the open border-Amnesty immigration policy that you promote. Read for yourself.

WASHINGTON — Frank Morris has been outraged as he has watched leaders in the African American community stand arm-in-arm with Latino groups in support of immigrant rights.

Morris, the former director of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation, a retired college professor and a current board member of the Center for Immigration Studies, said immigrants compete directly for jobs with African Americans, driving down wages and working conditions while in the country illegally.

“As long as there is an available labor supply, (immigrants) will be preferred to African Americans,” Morris said. “Employers prefer illegal immigrants because they can be exploited without any recourse.”

Robert Brown, an Emory University professor who studies African American politics, said many blacks are “less than sympathetic” to the plight of immigrants. Although many aren’t willing to speak publicly on the issue for fear of angering Latinos, a peek inside the editorial pages of African American newspapers, glimpses into town hall meetings and a look at national polls all indicate that many black Americans are uneasy about supporting immigrant rights.

Do you think Cynthia is an elitist selling-out hard working families by her support for open borders?

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