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Saturday, June 02, 2007
Roy Innis :: Townhall.com Columnist
Enemies of the Poor
by Roy Innis
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“People here have no jobs,” Mark Fenn admitted, after taking documentary producers on a tour of his $35,000 catamaran and the site of his new coastal home. “But if you could count how many times they smile in a day, if you could measure stress” – and compare that to “well-off people” in London or New York – “then tell me, who is rich and who is poor?”

Fenn is coordinator of World Wildlife Fund’s campaign against a proposed mining project near Fort Dauphin, Madagascar. The locals strongly support the project and want the jobs, improved port, sustained development, and improved living standards and environmental quality this state-of-the-art operation will bring. No wonder.

People there live in abject poverty, along dirt roads, in shacks with dirt floors, barely able to afford food on their $1000-a-year average income. There is little electricity and no indoor plumbing. The area’s rainforest has been destroyed for firewood and slash-and-burn agriculture. People barely eke out a living.

But Fenn claims the mine will change the “quaint” village and harm the environment. He says he feels “like a resident,” his children “were born and raised” there, and the locals “don’t consider education to be important” and would just spend their money on parties, jeans and stereos.

Actually, Fenn lives 300 miles away and sends his children to school in South Africa. And the locals hardly conform to his insulting stereotypes. “If I had money, I would open a grocery store,” said one. “Send my children to school,” start a business, become a midwife, build a new house, said others.

You have to see the film, “Mine Your Own Business,” to fully grasp the callous disdain these radical activists have for the world’s poor. That’s certainly the reaction audiences had, after seeing it May 30 on Capitol Hill in Washington.

Don Imus’s remarks were insensitive and intemperate. But Mark Fenn’s demeaning, even racist statements perpetuate misery.

These enemies of the poor say they are “stakeholders,” who want to “preserve” indigenous people and villages. They never consider what the real stakeholders want – the people who actually live in these impoverished communities and must live with the consequences of harmful campaigns that are being waged all over the world – from Europe to Africa, Latin America, Asia and the United States.

The WWF, Greenpeace, Oxfam, Sierra Club, Rainforest Action Network and other multinational activist corporations battle mines in Romania, Peru, Chile, Ghana and Indonesia; electricity projects in Uganda, India and Nepal; biotechnology that could improve farm incomes and reduce malnutrition in Kenya, India, Brazil and the Philippines; and DDT that could slash malaria rates all over Africa, where it kills 3,000 children every day.

When my son and some friends brought two tons of biotech food to impoverished families near Cancun, Mexico, Friends of the Earth protesters told the villagers the corn was poisonous. The radicals didn’t mention that Americans eat the same corn every day, and they didn’t bring one peso in aid.

They harp on speculative dangers of technology – and ignore the real, immediate, life-or-death dangers that modern mining, development and technology would prevent. They never mention the jobs, clinics, schools, roads, improved housing and small business opportunities – or the electricity, refrigeration, safe water, better nutrition, reduced lung and intestinal disease, fewer dead children.

They pervert “sustainable development” to mean no development, and ignore how mines will lay the foundation for modern schools, hospitals, libraries and businesses that will sustain prosperity and better living standards for generations.

Agitators use global warming and “corporate social responsibility” to force companies to acquiesce to their agendas – and ignore human rights to energy and technology, and people’s desperate cries for a chance to take their rightful places among the Earth’s healthy and prosperous people. They promote little solar panels on huts, but never enough electricity to help communities emerge from poverty and disease.

They extol the virtues of micro credit, to support minimal family enterprises, and demand debt forgiveness and more foreign aid for corrupt dictators – but oppose economic development that would eliminate the need for more international welfare. They blame Newmont Mining for accidents that killed five people over a two-year period in Ghana, but refuse to acknowledge that their policies and pressure campaigns cause millions of deaths every year.

The environmental injustice is prevalent here in the United States, too. A few years ago, the poor, mostly black community of Convent, Louisiana welcomed plans for a $700-million plastics factory that would bring good construction and permanent jobs, health benefits, a stronger tax base and better schools. Over 70% of the residents wanted it. But Sierra Club and a Tulane University group claimed the high-tech plant would pollute and cause cancer.

In fact, cancer rates would have gone down, because residents would have had better nutrition and regular medical check-ups. But the radicals won, the plant wasn’t built, and residents still work menial jobs for minimum wages in sugarcane fields.

Today, the greens’ demand higher energy prices and reduced energy supplies, to prevent global warming. For wealthy families, the impact would barely be noticeable. But low- and fixed-income families would have to spend a far higher portion of their limited budgets on energy and food. Some would likely have to choose between heating and eating – for no detectable environmental gain.

Yes, there are environmental impacts from mines, dams and other development. They change lives and communities. There are health and other risks.

But those changes also came with the Industrial Revolution. Are we worse off for it? Would we prefer to return to the jobs, lifestyles and living standards of pre-industrial, pre-electrical America – when 95% of Americans were farmers, cholera and malaria were ever-present, and the average life expectancy was 45? Are we not able to protect health and the environment with prudent regulations?

Would any of the greens, politicians and celebrities who clamor to keep the world’s poor “indigenous” (and thus impoverished, energy-deprived and diseased) care to live that lifestyle for even one month? Would they exchange their 10,000-square-foot mansions for a Fort Dauphin hovel, give up the blessings of electricity, and stop globe-trotting in private jets?

Why haven’t the UN and its Human Rights Council spoken out about the institutional racism that is being perpetrated in the name of “saving the planet”? Where are the US civil rights groups, news media and churches? The leaders of these poor countries?

This intolerable situation cannot continue, and people of conscience must no longer remain silent.

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About The Author
Roy Innis is national chairman of the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE), one of America’s oldest and most respected civil rights groups, and a life-long advocate of economic development rights for poor families and communities around the world.
"Dysphasia"
"Moral virtues can be aquired by practice and habit. They imply a right attitude toward pleasures and paines. A good man deliberately chooses to do what is noble and right for its own sake. What is right in matters of moral conduct is usually a mean between two extremes" Aristotle

A common man hears the words "sustanable developement" and belives it to mean what the words commonly mean. Leftist code requires them to speak to the dupes and useful idiots with words that do not mean what they intend to accomplish. The perversion is not in the original meaning of the words, but in the extremes.


InsightingTruth
Great post!

Here is another article on this
This one presents the point of view of those who are affected by the environmental policies.
http://rangemagazine.com/features/summer-06/su-sr-06-enemies-of-conservation.pdf

Conservative mental dysphasia


"They pervert “sustainable development” to mean no development"

This is not a perversion of SD it is the direct result of it, its classical definition. SD means static, antidevelopment practices and always has. The Neo-cons cannot pull their heads out of their rectums long enough to see that they are constantly out maneuvered by the left and that the leftist lexicon is used to bring about crushing mediaeval style oligarchic socialism. Ludwig Von Mises in his tome exposing the impossibility of Socialism wrote that "socialism can only manage a static economy." That is the underlying secret of SD. The left read and
Understood his thesis too, that is why they are advocating a precautionary principle and SD.

"Why haven't the UN and its Human Rights Council spoken out about the institutional racism that is being perpetrated in the name of “saving the planet”? Where are the US civil rights groups, news media and churches? The leaders of these poor countries?"

Because you moron, the UN is the problem! The UN was founded to be the head of a regional world wide neo-fascist government! They want the impoverishment and death of millions of poor people. Why do you think the real conservatives have wanted its dissolution for decades!

V.I. Lenin once quipped, "if you want to control the western democracies, control the availability to their energy supplies!"

Taproot asks:
"Is widespread poverty what we have to look forward to?"
I do not have a crystal ball, but I certainly hope not. Being broke is a condition. Being poor is a state of mind.

Americans have surrendered many of their natural rights to courts and politicians. It is not wise to continue to do so; it impoverishes all of us.

It is not necessary to continue to give up our rights for empty promises of security. The only thing we must surrender is our desire to control the lives and fortunes of our neighbors.

Many of the people who post here express deeply held convictions that they know what is best for the poor, the "greedy" corporate CEOs, the environment, or any number of entities, or groups. In fact they do not know what is best for anyone other than themselves, and some among us that don't even know that. However, even those poor clueless wretches deserve the freedom to experiment and explore until they find a path that leads them to something better.

Nearly every human being will, if given the freedom to do so, strive to improve his condition. The controlling factor is always external restriction of opportunity. The less free people are, the poorer they are. Freedom and prosperity cannot be separated.

We have the power to restore freedom in our time, but we squander that power when we seek to use it to mold others to live as we think they should. To be free one must allow others to be free.

It does not mater which end of the traditional political continuum you occupy, if your goal is to impose your will on others by using the force of law, you will be opposed by someone who stands equally firmly on the opposite side of the issue. No progress is made. We are all less free. The result is collective angst. Everyone thinks the country is spiraling down into one form of hell or another.

Americans must decide to defend the natural rights of human beings. It is not enough to defend our own personal rights; we must defend the rights of all our neighbors with equal fervor. If we do that, the courts, the legislatures, the political heads of states, are all powerless to usurp our rights. Then, and only then does freedom reign and prosperity prevail.

Evil Capitalism
Mr. Militant Leftist may never have ever seen an economic advantage that he likes. He paeans the “hotel room” with the pony refrigerator stocked by shoe leather express or a several hour bus wait. It may never have dawned to him that the capitalism that he so hates makes it possible for him to keep his tofu, bean sprouts and nuts in a cold storage container that was only provided by the economic system he so hates….what is not a luxury beyond a creek to drink out of or a cave to sleep in.

The leftist hatred of free economics shows thru their use of government fiat and concomitant franchised cronies as the typical example of capitalism.

“If [Large mining companies] were going to lift these countries out poverty, it would have done so a long time ago."

This same straw man is then pandered to secure his “comfy” state of privilege while mouthing the spiritualism of native peoples in the culture he empedestals. …such as a poor mom who holds a malaria racked baby while sitting in the dirt waiting for the half handful of weevily rice?

Militant Leftist
Militant, If you're happy in a hotel room with a mini fridge that's fine with me. "It may not be for everyone..." notwithstanding, I suspect that given the opportunity, you would compel us all to live like that. I have yet to meet a militant leftist who doesn't believe it's his duty to mind other people's business.

hmmm
the way i see it, the greenies just want to get rid of people adn they don,t give a damm if all the poor and rich people of the world suffer and one day die with as little as possible in their pockets. They would just assume all the people in Africa would die of Malaria. How about Dengue fever. where a person bleeds internally to death. Comes also from a mosquito bite.

hmm maybe the greenies should go ahead and knock themselves off and let the rest of us go back to work and maybe some could go to other places to start companies and then see jobs for other people.

Thank you, Island
Thank you, Island, for your insight into ANWAR and Alaska. It's always good to have the opinion of the "man on the ground." What do the folks in the villages think of the carabou guardians who won't allow drilling?

Insighting Truth
Is widespread poverty what we have to look forward to?
We have the supremes giving up our property rights to the governments. Our court systems are becoming more and more unfair daily. The better your income, the better your chances within the court system, and, if Hill has her way, individualism and the freedom to choose whatever path we want to take will disappear. Sounds like we are headed toward abject chronic poverty within my lifespan, and yours. Yippee, just what I wanted.
Which'll get us first though, the downward spiral into poverty; taken over by the illegal hoardes streaming into the country from around the world; or forced into dhimmitude by the islamofascists as aided and abetted by the so-called progressives.

Tap

Alaska
Another thing I've traveled a lot in this state and have been to many villages. I have friends that live in the villages. They want the jobs and money ANWAR would provide. It's a third world up there. They use honey buckets, and haul water from community wells. Fuel and electricity is very expensive. Housing is not so expensive, but then most families live in a tiny one or two room cabin, and that's not a one or two bedroom cabin. That's one room, and if their lucky they'll have a separate sleeping room.

Anwar
ANWAR - It's carabou not reindeer. There was some reindeer farming in Alaska, but reindeer are not native to Alaska. They were imported from scandinavia. The Carabou are doing great. They also use the pipeline during the 24 hour sunlight in the summer for shade. They use the haul road to travel to different feeding grounds. There are fewer biting and irritating insects on the haul roads. All and all it has been a help to the herd.

With directional drilling there would be very little distruption to ANWAR. The greenies would like you to think the whole place will be paved over with roads and drill holes. One platform can service many drill holes. They drill down from one platform and branch out for miles and miles underground to different wells. The actual total amount of land needed for all the drilling platforms added together only amounts to several acres. The platforms themselves are rather small and would be spread out over the miles and miles of the tundra with lots of romm for animals to migrate around the scattered platforms.

The roads are small gravel roadways. There are no tourists to speek of up there, and there never will be. There will not be long lines of grandma and grandpa meandering around the tundra in their 50 foot winnabagos tossing beer cans out the windows,

The natives want and need the jobs. They want to live where they are. They don't want to move to the cities. They want to hunt, work, have schools, and all the other stuff working on Anwar will provide them and their communities with.

We need the gas and oil. We need to reduce our dependance on oil from tyrants that are using our money they get from us for their oil to cause mayhem to their own people and the rest of the world. Let them go back to tossing camel dung at each other.

The greenies are enemies of this state. I've lived in Alaska for over 50 years.

Such brilliant suggestions!
"Resettle the people into the cities" You mean whether they want to go or not, I suppose?

"give them good jobs" As urban dirt farmers?

"eco-tourism" What is there in Fort Dauphin, Madagascar that will attract enough eco-tourists to support an entire village? Does every impoversihed spot on the globe have such attractions? Can you build roads and airports in all of them without ecological disruption?

"planes should be made non-emitting." And so should the factories that make the steel for the plane. And the mines that provide the ore. And the trucks/ships/planes that move it all. And people should ride non-emitting buses to the airports. And the airports should be built underground so as not to disturb the animal population: field mice have rights, too!

"doing anything in wilderness area is bad idea." Yeah, we can always stuff more people and industry into the cities.

"some cases when people bought animals and cared about them until they got too old to bring them money, after that these animals were put to death!" You mean like a cow that's well fed and cared for while producing hundreds of gallons of milk, then at the end of her life is painlessly converted to steaks and shoes? All for the purpose of feeding and clothing those despicable human parasites?

"Back to Madagascar. I think they have the right to choose. But I also think that there are also a lot of people who oppose the idea of mining!" Why do you think that? You might be right, of course, but I'd like to see the evidence that led you to this conclusion. I'd also like to know if they're a majority: the author states that 70% of the citizens of Convent, Louisiana wanted the factory they weren't ALLOWED to have. For their own good, of course.

"I would not drill in ANWR and in Bristol Bay. But I would help people find other jobs." Like what? Would they be relocated? How would this produce more oil, lowering the cost of energy and benefiting everyone (especially the poor)?

"I offset my emissions" I rob liquor stores, but it's okay: I contribute to Citizens Against Handguns as an offset. That reduces the number of other people doing what I'm doing, so it balances out.

I see none of the objectors has had the stones to answer the key question: "Are we worse off for it (the industrial revolution)? Would we prefer to return to the jobs, lifestyles and living standards of pre-industrial, pre-electrical America?"

Remember that world wide rock consert?
the one that was all about forgiving thirdworld debt, that took place during a G-8 summit. What I found most insulting was how many of the people involved from the band members to the audiances all put the blame on the United States for the impovrishness of these under devaloped nations.

The Rock group Green Day had a sign banner that read " It's not charity, we owe them."

And many of my liberal housemates were impressed with this world wide effort. And I became extremely upset with their niavite on this subject because it takes a great deal more intelectual thought to understand then your average liberal is willing to spend.

Frank Nevis
I mentioned leftist professors because they generally are among the people who complain about "greedy corporate heads." Plus, they try to influence all their students to think the same way. I was one of the ones influenced, but it wasn't until I saw how greedy many of THEM were that I stopped automatically calling corporate heads greedy.

And you're calling corporate heads greedy doesn't make them so.

That's all I have time for.

...
JFP,

left or right winger’s greed really doesn’t matter. And it’s also irrelevant – environmentalism is not right vs. left, but right vs. left. A lot of Republicans in US favor environmentalism and not drilling in Alaska, while, for example, Pelosi, Democrat, is for drilling in ANWR. Also, we can really profit from environmentalism – green agenda has created a lot of workplaces to date. And conservatives see it – look, even Newt Gingrich, the Republican of the Republicans, switched to environmentalism and admitted it’s for good.

Also, I don’t think that we should think in terms of either left or right. I’m centrist – I like some issues raised by left, some issues raised by right. That is why I’m not shy to tell that some communists’ ideas are really worth to see. Because I’m trying to look at whether we could benefit (by benefit, I mean not only money) from it, not at which party they are from.

Also, I can’t figure out why you mentioned leftists. Because I didn’t mention rightists. I said corporations! Does it mean rightists? It discredists the right wing, don’t you think? It’s like you linked right wing and greed of corporations! However, with the current president in the office, right wing can’t be discredited any further.

I agree with you that environmentalists rarely come up with a real proposal of workplaces. That’s true, I must admit. I know only few examples, when local residents have been proposed good jobs from environmentalists. May be, there are more. But I know only a few. And I think particularly this side of environmentalism should be changed. At the end of the day, it’s for the good of environmentalism.

But what environmentalists have is a real scientifically based plan how to convert to green energy. That’s a response to your first paragraph. Greenpeace has one on their web-site. It’s called “Energy [R]evolution.” It’s really worth to look through and read, even if you’re not on a green agenda. It’s interesting. You can find it here: http://www.energyblueprint.info/.

Having said that, I still don’t think that mining companies propose “good jobs to poor people.” People might be poor, but these jobs are not good. Read my first post – I’ve been watching how Russia converted from poor country to flourishing economy. First they were favouring every development project. Now I see protests at the streets, because the environment has degradged since then.

NRDC has calculated that drilling in Alaska will lower the gasoline prices only for 2 cents per gallon! Because were it to be drilled, it would not give sufficient “advance speed” of oil anyways.

Again – people should be helped there, if they really suffer and if it’s not for the greed of corporations. In 2006, as I know, oil companies set their historical records of profits!

As for me – I’ve already told you that I’m ready to pay any reasonable tax, if it’s shown beneficial both to environment and people. Whether it goes to Alaska or Chukotka, it really doesn’t matter for me. I don’t treat people by the color of their skin or the place they live! I really want everyone live in dignity and in harmony with nature.

Dark Wizard,

ANWR: in ANWR there are a lot of wild animals, but they migrate within the its borders, you know. Some animals migrate with their herds. So sometimes some areas are really look like desert, while some other areas have thousands and dozens of thousands (how it looked to me) animals at a time. But they need that whole region to thrive. You cut one piece, then you cut another piece, and then you say that ANWR is dead and now we can go on with full-scale development. ANWR was so successful in terms of conservation due to, for the most, its size. You can’t confine thousands of animals to some square kilometers and look forward they will be in good health!

So, yes – sometimes it seems that some areas of ANWR are deserted. So if you wanted to film desert areas of ANWR, it would be easy for you to do that, to show particularly these areas and say that ANWR is desert. But what you expect? That every square meter of ANWR contains one animal? No, of course. They have a concept of personal individual space, just like we do.

As for the reindeer – that’s good. But that was accidential, right? Nobody thought that pipeline would melt the snow, make the grass grow earlier, and so on. So it’s not a good vision of the situation of oil company or pipeline company that we should thank them for. It was an accident and it could work the either way and turn out to be disastrous.But what is good in this example is that the pipeline was elavated – this is good.

Communists leaders are evil. At least, I can say that about Stalin. As even here, in Russia, he is treated as an evil man. Regarding the higher education and college… By higher education, I mean college. They don’t have a term of high school here with the same meaning as we have. So, colleges are really good here and free, if your school grades were very good. Good example is Moscow State University. You can study here for free! And I have a lot of friends here who finished their colleges (like MSU) under the communism. They were never member of communist party. As well as their parents. Actually, a lot of people had never been in communist party. That’s another myth. This is all related to 70s-80s of 20th century. I don’t dispute Stalin’s era – it was really evil state. Foremost, for the people of USSR.

Environmentalism has been politicized – that’s true. Agree with you. There are both positive and negative sides of this effect. Negative is that some people don’t believe environmentalists any more and treat them respectively – as politicians. But there are various forms of environmetalists. You can’t generalize! The positive side is that ecology now on the list of politicians. Just as health, education, human rights, security. These issues are all good and all about life. But that’s the same with ecology – it is within the interests of human beings. It is also about life for human beings. Environment quite good correlates with health. A lot of examples – with human rights! Like when people are forced to resettle just because some corporation wanna mine there. Also, there is an ecological security. So – it’s very important, really!

Now really got to go. In a rush, but despereately wanted to reply to your messages. Bye-bye, JFP and Dark Wizard.

Myopine
Thanks

I just love it when rich people
argue about what poor people MUST do! Then, browbeat, bribe and frighten them into submission. WHO MADE YOU A GOD?

Oh, that's right, YOU made you a god. You MUST fly to places where the locals can hear those coins in your pocket. Sure, they smile at you - hoping for some token of your largesse. They KNOW they will get NOTHING if they don't smile.

They have 'no stress.' Now, that is a hoot! Not knowing where today's food will be coming from, if it does - no stress to that! Watching your children die from malaria is not stressful, is it?

But, you are on a mission to 'save the earth!' That makes anything you do okay?

Frank
I admit that I have not been to Alaska National Wildlife Reserve, however I have seen footage of ANWR on the evening news and it seems there is a serious discrepancy from what you claim to have seen and what was shown in the news media.
As for the reindeer, environmentalists claimed that Santa's reindeer would be decimated because the pipeline crossed the reindeers migration routes (the pipeline was elevated to allow the reindeer to cross under it), in reality the heat from the pipeline melted the snow beneath the pipes, the grass grew earlier then normal and the reindeer congregated and of course mated with the females exploding the population providing needed meat for the Natives.
I never said that communists are evil, however communist leaders have had this uncanny ability to be psychopaths, (Stalin, Mao, Castro and the list goes on). The Soviet education system might have been top notch but can anyone go to college? Nope, first and foremost your parents had to be a paid up, card carrying member of the communist party to gain entrance into their esteemed halls of higher education. Not much good to those who aren't communists is it?
As for not listening to environmentalists, what do they have to say worth listening too? While I agree the early environmentalist movement WAS extremely valid and instrumental in bringing pollution into the world lexicon and debate. The movement has since become so politicized, shrill and worse wrong in their predictions that they have made themselves irrelevant and completely out of touch with reality.

Those who "CARE"?
"Environmentalists" who think they have some right to dictate how others must live should be forced to lead by example.

When some ego motivated person's obsession for notoriety causes great harm then they should pay full consequences in kind for any harm they cause.

Anyone who uses "ecology" for an excuse to interfere with anyone's life or livelyhood should be required to post Bond in an amount four times the possible expense. The bond would be divided between the Court and the injured party in the event no threat to the ecology is proven.

Self appionted "Ecologists" do great harm to the nation in general and certain classes of business in specific.
As an example;
Several years ago, here in the Delta Area, some self appointed "Environmentalists" discovered a new species swimming in puddles of water on land that has been planted in strewberries for several years.

They swiftly obtained an emergency injunction to prevent plowing several fields in that area in order to protect the newly found species.

Farmers in that area flood irrigate with river water just prior to plowing. This "new species" was grass shrimp that came through the pumps and concentrated in puddles as the fields dried.

The entire planting season was lost by the time the injunction could be lifted but there was no loss whatever to the meddling buffoons responsible.

____________________________
Dark Wizard;
I never expected to agree with you but I do agree with every word in your 7:58 & 850 posts.
Good job!

Frank Nevis
I'm not saying environmentalists are hypocrites, merely that they have no actual solution. Every possible solution can be objected to from an environmentalist standpoint. Putting solar panels in deserts will disturb the "pristine" desert habitat. I was reading about it just the other day.

You question the author's biases because he's connected with corporations, which are run by greedy people. But I've seen greedy leftists in academia. It was one of many factors that made me think hard about leftism and its causes. The "greedy" people who run corporations brag about how many people they employ, so even if they are greedy, they are helping other people by giving them jobs. So far, you aren't giving poor people jobs. You are just telling them to go to the city and you will help them get a good job. What kind of a good job? Where will it come from? You have no specifics about that. The mining companies are offering something specific, something that will bring an actual good job to poor people. You are offering them nothing.

As for your saying that we shouldn't think of drilling for oil in Alaska as environmentalism vs. the poor, why not? That's what it is. If we drill for oil there, then the price of oil will come down, PLUS, there will be more jobs for blue-collar workers. Are you willing to pay a tax that would COMPENSATE all those at the bottom who are negatively affected if we don't do this? You talk about all kinds of other taxes and donations you make. But you didn't talk about this one.

lilly
I was being facetious.

poor
with friends and advocates like mark fenn who needs enemies

JFP
Ok, if you put a question in the form “why can’t they make that choice?”, but it wasn’t how you put the first time. Or so it seemed to me.

Nevertheless, why can’t they make that choice. First, particularly to mining in Romania, there are a lot of people opposing the idea! They live there, but they oppose the idea. I know that your question is about Madagascar, but in order not to return to Romania after talking about Madagascar, I give you the answer for presumable question.

Back to Madagascar. I think they have the right to choose. But I also think that there are also a lot of people who oppose the idea of mining! This article is obviously biased. And I just googled an author and it gave me that the author on the same bandwagon with ExxonMobil and Monsanto. Instead of creating native business and educate African people how they could develop on their own, they will give them 5 or 10 years of not so high salaries and leave, having developed the potential of natural resources. This how big business and corporations work. It’s only for greed – some oil corporations have been linked to sponsoring regimes abusing and violating human rights solely for the reason to have an opportunity to pump the oil of that country further! So, when it comes from corporation with obvious interests, as it is with this article, don’t look forward for honest, investigative, unbiased review.

By the way, I don’t separate Russian and US nature in my mind. I understand that I can’t influence the laws protecting Russian nature and juridically it is the nature of non-native country for me. But I really want it to be protected centuries ahead. It’s very beautiful. Just as nature of Madagscar. So, if you ask me, I think we should not show African people how to develop, when the nature’s at the stake, but how to develop living in harmony with nature. West countries – US, EU, Japan (west? ?) – might be the most experienced countries in doing this – develop and care about nature. But they’ve learnt it through the process of taking over the nature for the sake of development. Yes – an environment was degraded. But that time there was no other way. The question was either development or nature. But that was history. If all our history the question was ‘either development, or nature’ and it seemed to be right, because there was no other option, then it doesn’t mean that it’s right any more and it doesn’t mean it can’t be changed for good – for an equilibrium of development and nature. And today we in western countries have such an equilibrium. As a result of development we’ve got the technologies that are currently the closest to the equilibrium of development and caring about nature. So, I think we could teach African people and help them with these technologies. We could teach them how to conduct sustainable development. We could teach them how to develop and obtain good living standard without compromising on environment, and as a result, not only nature’s beaury, but their health as well!
Instead – we’re teaching them how to plunder, how to use every resources till the end, and so on.

As for the planes. Currently, they are all scientific projects. But I hope it’s gonna boost, due to nanotechnologies and traditional technologies. As far as I know, there are already planes working on hydrogen. They are far from being commercialized, but nevertheless, you know.

Personally, I tell you – I fly a lot, because I have to. Every my flight to any country, I also try, besides doing business, to contribute to eco-tourism and to pour some money in this industry locally. Also, I offset my emissions.

Well, you say that they, environmentalists, will find some drawbacks in that mechanism too.May be. But it is the form of development in itself. The good technologies will come, but even better ones will stay in the labs. And may be greens will be trying to push the planet to be even more greener – I don’t know. I’m not from any green organization. And I think they don’t know either – it depends! But looking at these days, green agenda has boosted the development – in labs, in corporations, in ethics, whatever - very much recently. There are many very interesting scientific projects coming out of labs, thankfully to greens! And as you like the development, you should be in favor of this type of development too! Either way – you would be simply dishonest!

Wind power is really great! The question is where to put wind farms. Denmark has 20% of electricity coming from the wind power. Germany – about 7%. Some wind farms even produce more electricity than some nuclear plants! So, you know, it’s all possible. It’s up to us, at the end of the day. Birds – yeah, that’s an issue. But today every potential place for wind farm is thoroughly checked with the object to determine whether birds migrate there. I see what your point is – you’re trying to show greens as hypocrites. But it’s not working this way – believe me, wind farms are checked as potential hazards to birds.

Solar power is also great. Today there solar panels that conver more than 40% of solar energy to electricty. And I have never heard about eny environmentalist against such a project to date – and I know a lot about green issues, believe me. But I could imagine environemalists being against such a project, would it have been done in an unsustainable manner – they yeah, they could have spoken out against it. But again – even green project should be conducted in green way, that is, sustainably.

As for Alaska – again, it’s not the question of choosing between the environment and the poor! It should be not put in such a radical state. Either way – I would not drill in ANWR and in Bristol Bay. But I would help people find other jobs.

Considering a tax… I already pay such a tax. It’s not a mandatory. But it’s a sign of my good will. And a form of example to my friends, family, and loved ones. For example – I offset my emissions. Also – I donate to various environmetal organizations. And – you couldn’t have imagined that! – I also donate to funds which try to help poor nations to develop, but develop in sustainable way! So, was such a tax made a mandatory one, it would haven’t changed anything for me! I’m more than prepared for such a tax and ready to pay it.

Ok, guys, got to go. I see your fears and feel your anxities. But there is always an equilibrium – in the end, it’s no one else, but we, who win from caring about environment. Just don’t take the green agenda too radically. Try, at least, for a second, imagine that it’s yours, that it’s not hostile – then everything will work. For both people and nature!

To Dark Wizard
RE "Who cares about the world's poor?"---then you give the arguments that if the poor are helped, then they will only be the helped poor, and that others will still exploit them.

1) I assume that you do not participate in any of the world's religions, particularly Christianity.

2) The idea that helping the poor is futile just doesn't hold water. I don't suppose you would be impressed by hearing about the poor themselves getting helped since you don't seem to like the poor very much. I doubt that "empathy" is an important concept to you. So let's talking about how helping the poor might help YOU.

For example, helping the poor by eradicating communicable disease in their communities helps not only the poor but everybody else since in the old days when contagious diseases were more common, epidemics used to start in slums and spread to the whole city. And our globe is getting smaller, so that diseases no longer common in the USA can now reach us with the speed of jet plane travel. About twenty years ago a McDonald's in a suburb of Washington DC was found to be the source of the typhoid which, as I recall, made nine people sick. This was traced to an African immigrant worker in the restaurant. Otherwise, we don't hear much any more in the US of people getting typhoid---my homesteading great-grandfather died of it in Kansas in 1887 but it's not a disease I have ever heard of otherwise in a personal connection

Another example of helping the poor not being futile is that when poor but bright children are educated, they sometimes end up being of considerable use to the larger community---advances in science, medicine, engineering, etc are often made by individuals with humble origins. Without help, they would probably not be building bridges or inventing surgical implant devices.

Dark Wizard, dark you are indeed. Wizard, I'm not so sure.

Frank Nevis
"Yet, by you, these people can be exposed to the direct and indirect hazards of mining near their villages. Am I getting you right?"

I never said such a thing. You are the one putting things in my mouth. I'm assuming that you insist that it is an implication of what I said, just as I was talking about the implications of what you said.

So, let's say there are such hazards. If the people in Madagascar want that risk rather than your weird pie-in-the-sky dreams of eco-tourism, why can't they make that choice?

As for planes that are non-emitting, you say it's not in the very distant future. Do you have a link on that? Because I doubt it very much. But let's assume that it will happen in twenty years. Based on our experience with you environmentalists, here is what is likely to happen. Very soon, someone will talk about the "dangers" of using this new mechanism. It will found to be polluting in some hidden way, or the manufacture of it will be tainted, or some such.

And that is why I feel that it is perfectly reasonable to extrapolate from what you've said and to talk about clipper ships. The fact is that the environmentalists have no clear-cut solution to our problems. There's only vague talk, talk which when one pins them down, is either seen to be ridiculous or else is something they reject. For example, wind power sounds great, except that it doesn't actually produce much power, AND it harms birds. Solar power? Well, environmentalists don't want our pristine deserts (an ideal location, one would think) used for that.

Since, for every possible solution, some environmentalist will object to it, why not assume that they want us to use clipper ships rather than jet planes?

And as for being able to help the poor and the environment simultaneously, no doubt there are some cases in which that is possible. But with drilling for oil in Alaska, that isn't the case. You either side with the environment or the poor. Take your pick.

I suppose we could do it this way. All you environmentalists could pay a tax that would be redistributed to all the poor people who are adversely affected by your demand that we not drill for oil in Alaska. Are you willing to pay that tax?

I bet not.

InsightingTruth
Yeah, you have some good idea about this. And I partially agree. But I would like to see a mix of what you're talking about and some seem-to-be utopian social restrictions on how some forms of property could be used.

Here what I'm talking about...

If someone buys a land within the borders of national park or wilderness, then definitely he can't do everything with this land that he would love to do. The restrictions should be imposed by society via the form of a law - this is how it's actually done in democracy right now. Truth be told, I would like to see a society, which believes that doing anything in wilderness area is bad idea. That is - I don't want this idea to be sent down from the government to the people so that people, unwilling to do that, are forced, because they are afraid of a government. I wouldn't like to live in such a country. But - if everyone in the society is willing to slightly change his/her own lifestyle, if everyone understands that is for good, if everyone deeply and honestly believes that nature should be cherished and protected, without any force used by the government, then I would raise both my hands for such a society! It seems to be utopia. And may be it is so. But it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to get to it as close as possible. It's like an absolute zero in physics - not achievable, but scientists are trying to get as close as possible. And second - I think it's up to us whether we would like to widen the boundaries of our society so that it becomes a little bit pinker. Really - the slavery had been with us for centuries until the time it was abolished. One century before it was abolished you could have heard that abandoning slavery is utopia, because it seemed to be unreal that time. Yet - it's historical fact, not a utopia!

And the other argument against the property rights on nature resources or animals is that there were some cases when people bought animals and cared about them until they got too old to bring them money, after that these animals were put to death! Were it to happen extensively, given, by you, such kinds of property rights, we would lose species by species.

Word from the Huddled Masses
If people are enemies of the poor, they're not big fans of yours truly. Hey, I live in Ambridge, PA, four miles north of Resume Speed, PA.

Turning now to more serious matters . . . On my almost-famous blog (click on name above) I have a piece today on why Rudy Giuliani is a lock for the Republican nomination. This is a better analysis than you're going to read anywhere else, especially the odious MSM. As always, your comments are welcome. Have a great weekend!

steve
(always controversial, always fun)

Noble goals do not make good policy.
The best possible protection our environment can get is the strict enforcement of private property rights. People do not destroy what they own. It is almost always communal property that is over-grassed, over-timbered, over-exploited.

Property taxes often drive the exploitation and destruction of the environment. Many people would, if they could afford to, just sit on undeveloped property.

Zoning restrictions reduce density and drive urban sprawl, and keep people moving to lower priced outlying areas. This provides further incentive to develop farms and forests into subdivisions.

Building codes add unnecessary expense to the cost of housing, keeping the poor from owning their own homes. If one has ownership of a piece of ground, then one is truly a stakeholder in world. He that cannot own a place to stand is but a permanent trespasser on the earth.

Utopia is not an option. But the evidence is overwhelming, the freer people are the more peaceful and progressive the society.

JFP
You lack consistency.

Look what you say:
##############
As for moving those people into cities and getting them good jobs, has it ever occurred to you that not everyone likes cities? Cities can be crowded and dangerous and encourage a sense of despair at the indifference and rootlessness, especially for anyone who's grown up in a small, traditional village.
#############

Yet, by you, these people can be exposed to the direct and indirect hazards of mining near their villages. Am I getting you right?

Eco-tourism: planes should be made non-emitting. It's not in the very distant future. :) By now, I think it's ok to fly. Especially, if it contributes to eco-tourism. I fly a lot. But I offset my emissions.

I'm not saying that we should care about animals, yet forget about people. You're putting words in my mouth that I've never said. But this definitely can be done simultaneously! And there a lot of examples. When not only nature suffers from the development, but vice versa, it improves, due to by-funding.

You're taking environmentalism too radically! Too radically even for environmentalist! :) A lot of my green friends are much more modest in their opinions towards environment and sustainable development than you want them to be! You want them to seem much more radical than they actually are. It seems you just put some artificial ideas about environmentalism in your head and now can't get it out of there. Sorry.

dbz77
I wouldn't say that these numbers are estimated in hundreds of millions of people, but they are definitely huge, if we're talking about communism in USSR. But it was Stalin's era. And honestly it was irrelevant to communism. It was just a dictator who used the concepts and ideas of communism to establish the regime and rule the country on his own! There are a lot of capitalistic dictators in this world these days. They use not communism, but capitalism in order to uphold the regime! So, it's more irrelevant, than you've been taught to think about it.

You don't know everything about communism! I'm not an adherent of communism. I'm from capitalistic country. I have my own business that gives me very good living standard. And I'm all for capitalism. But truth be told, we've been taught a lot of lies about communism, thanks to McCarthy and his red scare! I'm not telling communism is good. But my attitude to communism has converted from "desperately evil" to "desperately neutral" :) since the time I arrived here. Believe me - there are a lot of good ideas coming out of mouths of modern Russian communists. However, I wouldn't vote for them, given such an opportunity.

I'm not going to inform you about national socialism, I don't even know what it is for. I wouldn't have told you anything good or bad about communism, if I hadn't lived here for so long and experienced everything not through anti-commies books, but through my own experience.

Let's finish here talking about communism. It's irrelevant, really.

Frank Nevis
"There should be places, where human involvement is void."

Why? That's a value that has been promoted by rich liberals, who think that animals getting to have a place to themselves is more important than helping poor people. But I'm not rich, so why should I share your values?

As for eco-tourism, exactly how are tourists going to get to Madagascar? Via plane, of course. But that would contribute to global warming, wouldn't it? There are already some environmentalists who eschew riding in planes or even cars. So let's take this tendency to its enviro-logical conclusion. The only way that eco-tourists are going to get to Madagascar is via clipper ship. And the percentage of tourists who have the time to do that is mighty small.

As for moving those people into cities and getting them good jobs, has it ever occurred to you that not everyone likes cities? Cities can be crowded and dangerous and encourage a sense of despair at the indifference and rootlessness, especially for anyone who's grown up in a small, traditional village.

And getting these people good jobs? How, if they don't have a good education? What good jobs are you thinking of?

Frank Nevis
Communism killed hundreds of millions of people.

Of course, since you are an expert in defending murderous ideologies, you can inform us of the good things about National Socialism.

InsightingTruth
Actually, I wasn't trying to say that one's interest is always antipodal to that of another. I was just trying to specify your definition of freedom to make it sound correct and mathematically precise under the conditions of today's society.

I'm not trying to focus on negative aspects. By nature, I'm an optimist and pragmatic. My post was a kind of recipe what should or might be done were such negative aspects to rise. If individuals' goals agree, then ok, of course.

But I deeply believe that nature should be taken into an account. We've been so deep into the b/s of anthropocentrism since it emerged in the medieval era so that I doubt the majority is going understand what I'm talking about when I talk about that we should protect animal species. But this could be viewed from the point that not only good job, not only good health, but good environment and the feeling that somewhere in India few thousands of tigers left are desperately fighting for their own survival are also among the interests of the people. Untouched and beautiful nature is among the interests of people. And interests of this people should be treated accordingly just as we treat the interests of some people to buy 5th car!

Regarding your last paragraph. I agree with you to the last word! However, the progress is not only an ability to buy 5th car for each family. What's funny - I know a lot of people in Moscow, Russia, who have an opportunity to buy a car or they have already bought a car. You know - they use a subway. The progress have led Moscow to a state, when driving car is nearly impossible. I have a car here - but most time, I take a subway or ride on bike, without a necessity to be stuck into the traffic jams. Do we need such a progress? I think not. Of course, every human being should live its live in dignity. But the dignity is not calculated in the number of cars he/she has. If that was our goal, then every one wouldn't have only had a good standard living, but we would have had an opportunity to save nature as well and listen to birds twittering at the weekend outside the boundaries of megapolis.

Moderation is Needed in All Things
We hear the same argument every time some hot-shot wants to make big money. "The mines will bring work to these men" > then we have unsafe mines collapsing on the men; we have Black Lung Disease. "Carbon fuels bring wealth to the community" > carbon emissions bring health problems to the community. "Casinos will make this town rich" > casinos make the gangster owners rich while the town goes to hell. Think of all of this as the ring in a boxing match. In one corner we have the entrepreneurial spirit, free market capitalism. In the other corner we have the needs of people: clean air and water, decent labor conditions. The trainers of either side are going to ballyhoo for their own side. But some balance is necessary. So when you listen to The Heritage Foundation or to Greenpeace, just remember which side they're working for.

Frank Nevis, your mistake is...
...thinking that one person's self-interest is antipodal to that of another. While that could be the case, it is much more likely that both individuals have similar interests and goals, and that their efforts to reach those goals will compliment one another.

Focusing on the negative aspects of individualism gives one a distorted view. The second point in my first post provides the proper process for dealing with the inevitable exploitative individual.

All of human progress has come to us through the efficacy of mutually beneficial self-interest. Top down command and control is the bane of progress. It is curious that self-styled "progressives" do not understand the relationship between freedom and progress.

Eco-elitists
I don't know about this mine. As others have pointed out, not enough information.

On the other hand, there are plenty of examples of liberal policies that undermine their purported intent. Welfare is one example. Another: the ecologists who kyboshed levee improvements in New Orleans to save some fish in Lake Ponchartrain. Another: those who demanded the dousing of every small forest fire lest a few trees burn thus unwittingly spawning more devastating less controllable ones.
This guy Fenn is typical of elitist thinking: wealth and privelege, no clue about nature (earth or human).

Dark Wizard
Dark Wizard,

communists are not that scary in themselves. As I said I’ve lived in Russia for 10 years. And though I’m not a communist, I know a lot of communists and, honestly, some of their ideas are worth to see. The issue with red scare – and you seem to be an adherent to red scare – is that everything that comes out of mouth of communists is considered to be evil, without even thinking whether it is good or bad for us particularly these days. For example, communists in USSR were very desperate about higher education. Thankfully to the legacy of USSR, Russia has one of the most (may be the most) powerful higher education system in the world. With a lot of scientists from Russia now working in US! That is the drawback – these scientists can’t find a job in Russia and they are bound to go in other countries, but they got their education from the education system in the position as it was created during the USSR era. USSR (at least, until 80s) was an evil country, but should we downplay their education system? If it suits us now? This is what the red scare says – despite the fact that we could benefit from that education system, solely on the fact that is from former communist state, it should be abandoned.

That is how green scare works these days as well. You just don’t even try to listen to environemtalists. If person says he is with a green idea in mind, he/she should be smeared and assaulted. Yet you don’t know that may be they have a plan not to save environment only, but to help rural people living there benefit from saving the environment. It is called eco-tourism. Another option – which has been recently tried by some animal welfare fund – is to buy land from the people, help them resettle into the cities, help them find the job, and the use their land to secure the borders of national parks, where diminishing population of elephants lives!

I’ve been to ANWR. I travel a lot. Don’t stuff me with anti-green propaganda about ANWR – a lot of wildlife seen by my own eyes!

I don’t know about reindeer popluation in relation to Alaskan pipeline, but if the state of affars is as you say and the population has only increased (however, I can’t conclude how the population could explode only because of new pipeline ?), then this is an example of sustainable development, which could be adopted everywhere – even in Africa. But the case with Rosia Montana is not of this type --- because the mining process is hugely different from the process of laying down the pipeline. That is, the beauty of Romania’s nature and potential eco-tourism’s site will be definitely destroyed, without ability to bring it back.

And remember – once the species go extinct, there is no way back! It’s for the case you forget what you trade the profits of Canadian mining company for!

InsightingTruth
Sorry, but your definition of freedom bounces to the era, when guys in hats and on horses shot each other for the fun. In social community (an we all live in social communities), freedom is an act in one's own best interest, unless it harms other's freedom. The goal is to find equilibrium by John Nash, if you are mathematician. This is a pathway to world without wars and without conflicts.

Back to Rosia Montana. First, have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdMDUJYvHMM
By the love, which the nature's beauty is shown with, one can tell that at least not everyone in that village is in favor of mining.

Second. There are few proposals:
1) Resettle the people into the cities, give them good jobs, good doctors, all that stuff some guys here have pledged for them. But without putting them to any hazards of mining! The people are happy, the environment is saved! But something is not working here -- Gabriel Resources desperately needs to mine that place!!! And it doesn't care that much about the people. For them, it's just the resource to persuade politicians to let them mine there!

2) The nature is definitely beautiful. Local residents could benefit from an eco-tourism, which is a multi-billion industry these days, yet without a harm to environment, without a harm to people. The equilibrium exists, yet without Gabriel Resources on the list. Writing and thinking about this one, I make a decision to visit Rosia Montana this summer.

So, guys favoring the development to develop every nook of the planet - would you be happy if proposal 1) have worked? I guess not! Because, though you're using the rhetorics of helping people, the only thing you want is to plunder everything, until there is nothing to plunder left.

Regards.

Frank
First...McCarthy uncovered more then 130 communists that were a detriment to national security so to be associated with "Mcarthyism" is not a bad thing. Second you need to educate yourself about ANWR, it is as barren as the moon and just as inhospitable, nothing lives there, you and your communist butt buddies want everyone to think ANWR is some kind of paradise that is going to be destroyed and nothing is further from the truth. Your example of ANWR brings me back to the debate over the Alaskan pipeline, the shrill protests of the environmental movement was "The reindeer population will be decimated!" In reality the opposite happened. The reindeer population exploded, giving Native American of Alaska a better food supply.
Finally scare tactics are closer to your cup of tea. "The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Global warming is going to kill us all if you don't turn your national resources over to us because we are so much smarter then you."

The Essentials of Prosperity
Freedom - to act in one's own best interest.
Property Rights - are necessary before one can meaningfully invest in one's future.

In every case I am aware of widespread poverty is the result of bad government. Governments that do not secure property rights, that do not provide fair and accessible court systems, that do not allow people to move freely and choose their own path are the first and final cause of endemic poverty.

Multinational Excursionist
Excursionist,tourist; the definition of, as you write, ""stakeholders,” who want to “preserve” indigenous people and villages." The "drive-bys" who's personal,present,situation in life requires them to have impoverished communities,and threats to enviroment,wildlife. The "multinational activist corporations",mentioned in the article,the activist groups operating in the U.S.,live according to this threat. Their various excursion began with turbulance, has they beat the drums, gathering forces to defeat the turbulance. A forced gathered, has they played on emotion,and compassion. Has compassionate humans around the world, in the U.S., viewed their videos,pictures,and heard their plea's,donations rolled in. Money that bankrolls their operation, and keeps the tour on coarse. These activist groups could not continue in perpetuation if the turbulance, and turmoil, of their cause ended.

The trouble with most people like
miltant leftist is they would have all of us living as they have chosen to do.

Exactly what have people in this country like je$$e J and sharpton ever done for poor people?

The "greenies" would have us all living as Dickens described and we allow it, wouldn't want to point out that they are nuts,like their guru gore, not PC ya know.

These ex hippies were drugged out 40 years ago and clueless today because of it, but they feel so good about themselves.


Dark Wizard,
The tactics you use are not going to work with any reasonable person. In good traditions of McCarthyism, you are trying to catch someone who is too much on a red scare and turn it into green scare. Go with a reason - not with a right-winger's smear and assault tactics.

Regarding the drill in Alaska. There are two proposals - in ANWR and in Bristol Bay. ANWR is may be the single left so wild wilderness area in US. It should be left to wild. This is the place, where they can find peace and home. The same with the Bristol Bay - there are north pacific right whales there, one of the most endangered marine mammals. There should be places, where human involvement is void. Because the goal of humankind is not to plunder everything to the end. We should remember that we are the shepherds, that with power comes the responsibility, and we are responsible for care and protecting the wildlife. Especially, these days, when, by some estimation, up to 50% of species could go extinct with the next century.

A lot of mileage...
Townhall.com certainly gets a lot of mileage out of Mark Fenn, his catamaran, and the movie "Mine Your Own Business":

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MaryKatharineHam/2007/01/26/the_forgotten_mammal&Comments=true

The story presented by Ms. Ham turned out to be not quite the way she presented it, and since we have the usual suspects here, I wonder if the same thing is going on again.

JFP
The communists never worried about the environment. They only wanted to take over factories, while the environmentalists want to shut them down. The communists' big concern was with the poor; they wanted them to keep their jobs and to get more pay for them. Their beliefs on how this could be done were morally disgusting, but at least they cared about the poor. The environmentalists just don't care at all. They will close down factories or will raise costs so much with their legislation that it is as if they are being closed down. And to hell with the people who worked in those factories.

I agree with everything you said but this paragraph and here’s why. In today’s world the communists and environmentalists are one and the same. Since the 1970's the communists have hijacked the environmental movement to push their anti-capitalist agenda. Just look at the rhetoric of the left in this country and others. "Big oil, Big logging, Big this and big that. As opposed to what? Little oil or little logging? Truth is today’s "environmentalists" couldn't give a rats behind about the environment, their goal is to take control of the worlds natural resources and redistribute them as they see fit and to hell with the environment.

Free Trade and Poverty
Why do economist & politician lie and call it free trade, when the facts are they have protectionism negotiated in the deal? Do you think the world wide increase in poverty due to poorly negotiated trade deals pushed by NEOCONS & NEOLIBS has anything to do with the rise in terrorism? Do you think the biggest winners in the trade deals are multi-national companies at the expense of workers and small business?

MSNBC-Newsweek-Many economists argue that free trade is a magic bullet—the quickest way to fuel growth and alleviate poverty. Yet free trade hasn’t much helped the 47 least developed countries in the world, the poorest of the poor. According to United Nations data, their share of world trade has declined sharply since 1950, and now accounts for a meager 1 percent of global trade volume. Collectively, the number of people living in abject poverty in those nations is expected to rise to 471 million by 2015—up from 334 million in 2000. Even East Asia, long the poster child for export-driven growth, owes much of its rise to government-led and -financed industrial strategies, as well as outright protectionism. Japan still impedes imports of foreign rice, for example, while South Korea blocks a variety of agricultural products.

This is not old-fashioned populism. Serious thinkers have concluded that neoliberal economic policies are little help to the world’s poorest nations. Columbia University economist and Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz argues that the WTO’s agenda as currently constituted should be scrapped.

Under the rubric “aid for trade,'’ the WTO has in fact endorsed initiatives that, ironically, resemble the protectionism and government-driven development the organization originally set out to dismantle.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/free-trade-and-poverty

Enviros don't care about the poor
I'm not the first to say this, but I'll keep saying it. I don't have to go to Madagascar to see how the greens operate. I can see it here in America, and what I see is that environmentalists NEVER take the poor into account.

Take the idea of replacing incandescent light bulbs with fluorescent ones. Who exactly is going to pay for this? Naturally, the environmentalists expect each of us to pay for it on our own. So, the burden will be more on the poor than on the rich, because for the rich this will be nothing. It is in effect a regressive tax.

Take a look at just about any list of things that one can do about the environment. Almost all of them cost money. It's very seldom that items on the list will save money.

The Teamsters want to drill for oil in Alaska, but not the environmentalists. They are always the ones who think there should be higher taxes on gasoline, but they never say how the poor are supposed to deal with those taxes.

Basically, environmentalism is a movement of the rich. It was a movement that originated in the 60's, a time when our country was flush with money. We sent a man to the moon, we had corporations that had their own laboratories for doing basic research, and we spawned the environmental movement.

The communists never worried about the environment. They only wanted to take over factories, while the environmentalists want to shut them down. The communists' big concern was with the poor; they wanted them to keep their jobs and to get more pay for them. Their beliefs on how this could be done were morally disgusting, but at least they cared about the poor. The environmentalists just don't care at all. They will close down factories or will raise costs so much with their legislation that it is as if they are being closed down. And to hell with the people who worked in those factories.

So, when I read an article like this, I don't need to know the details, because I've never heard of environmentalists actually caring about the poor.

What is strange is the image of being the good guys that environmentalists have managed to cultivate. There are many people who have lost jobs because of them, yet they are thought of as idealists in our media. But the voters tell a different story. Since the rise of environmentalism, the Democrats have not done very well in presidential elections.

Who cares
Who cares about the worlds poor? they are poor and giving them jobs only makes them working poor because the government, organized crime and organized labor will take away any gains the poor would have seen.

Informed better than not
I agree much with Militant Leftist.

I now live in Russia. And have been living here for almost 10 years. Yet I've traveled much and have an opportunity to compare - countries that only starting to develop with Russia, which has developed enormously for the last 5 years, especially in the Moscow region. I here have an opportunity to go back in time 5 years from now and show how Russian people were thinking that time about development and what they think now.

The issue is that 5-7 years from now Russia was very poor and under-developed. Thanks to high prices on oil, Russia managed to get out of that hole and successfully jumped on a pro-development bandwagon. That time people were favoring it. Of course, they were! But - nothing comes in white color only! Especially, if it's done how it was done in Russia. Jumping on pro-development bandwagon, Russia has gained so powerful momentum that it can't even stop for a second to think about an immediate development project - whether it brings more benefits than hazards. What you can see now here - ecological expertise was kicked out, illegal logging widespread over the whole country, construction is encroaching into wilderness area and national parks, people are being resettled only to give some corporation a chance to extract natural resources, huge poaching with no control over it, due to underfunding of ecological militia. In the cities - buildings are built stuck next to each other so closely that there is nearly no space to park a car at your door, parks are logged down, there is nothing to breathe in, but stinking emissions, traffic jams are so huge that it could take you hours to drive some miles. I can continue.

Are people happy with such development? No. They were when development began. But no one thought that time that it would result in such things, when cities become not a place to live, but only a place to work. Moscow hardly can support adequate living with obvious human rights for clean air and pure water - everyone who has an opportunity buys a dacha out of the borders of Moscow.

And what I can see here these days are the protests at the streets. People demand that they have the right not only to have a job, but the right to live their lives in dignity.

I've been to Africa few times. What I saw there (particularly that place, where I was - I can't say for the whole Africa) was not a development favoring local residents. I saw very enterprising people willing to start their own business in the fields and to give workplaces for their neighbors. I saw how they were refused by their own country. Because that fields were already prepared for a multi-billion dollar corporation. This guy could not only give workplaces in the short-term, but ensure that it would not go away over the long-term, because he was local. He could have created traditions of conducting business, he could have been teaching other people, he could have been an example for others, and, it is important, it would have been done without a little harm to environment. That is the development from the inside.

What they got was the development from the outside. The corporation came, gave them salaries not so large. Having developed its potential, the corporation left, leaving the people depending on it in the same state they had been until the corporation came.

So, the reason to compare Russia and Africa here is that once Africans feel the pros and cons of development they will turn their back on this radical pro-corporation approach and will demand the development favoring their unique lifestyles. But may be it can be given them even now, don't you think? Without multi-billion dollar transcontinental corporations. But that's not good for these corporations - they're getting rich because of these poor people.

I'm not an anti-development. But this world is not either black or white. There are many forms of development. Each form brings its advantages and disadvantages. But what is obvious for me is that development should not be value in itself, development should not be solely for development. It should be here to bring good standards of living for people. But if it throws them small piece of meat, plunders the resources of their country, and, in the end, leaves them alone with no pure water to drink, sometimes exposed to toxics intentionally and irresponsibly left, then I say no to such development. People have just the same rights for good environment (which correlates with good health, by the way) as they have rights for good job! By some estimations, 150 mil. of people are displaced these days due to at least partial environmental degradation! Even Darfur conflict is partially linked to bad ecology!

On the other hand, we, people, are the stewards of this planet, not the rapers. To log every tree and mine every potential mine, resulting in species' mass extinction and Earth turning out to be not a living planet, - this should be not our goal!

If this article was written by a lobbyist, then it's ok - you get paid for these. But if you, author, are a journalist, then what you do is not honest.

Considering Paul Driessen's book "Eco-Imperialism". If you're looking for thorough analysis, view points from both sides of an issue, then it's not a good book to read. If you want one-sided arguments and twisted facts, go with this book. This guy, Paul Driessen, is a lobbyist and an advisor for multiple anti-environmental US think tanks, such as Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise. His first book is called "Rules for Corporate Warriors: How to fight and survive attack group shakedowns". And now he's writing about ecology... Don't look forward for an unbiased opinion.

Inform Yourselves
Mr. Innis has more knowledge than either of the first two commentors and I tend to agree with Well, now's last sentence. Who are we to sit here in our luxury or hovel of choice and dictate to other nations how much technology they should have? Mr. Innis is not talking about jeans and television, he is talking about food, clean water, doctors, electricity - you know, the basics.

I would like to see the proud of his living on less Militant Leftist really take the plunge and go live in the Sudan for a while. If you make it through the purging, starvation, disease, and filth, I'll bet you won't last long when you have to walk hundreds of miles a week to find any water that doesn't kill you. And be sure to take your children and extended family with you because they need to experience the joys of living without (or not living at all).

Our denying ourselves of the wealth of this country won't mean anything to the poor of the world unless we get off our high horses and support groups like World Vision whose priority is to dig wells, help them grow food, and to bring in doctors to help the sick. I encourage you to also read Paul Driessen's book "Eco-Imperialism" if you want the facts about the mine and about the green movement.

And the truth is:
Without technology, there can be NO longtime financial improvement of ANY culture.

BUT IF you keep them poor, they will always be there to give you something to hector all of us about.

Rather give the man a pole and teach him to fish than provide fish for him for the rest of his life (and his children's lives.)

I saw somewhere the RICH taking tours of the poorest areas around Sao Paulo, Brazil. SLUMMING I guess you could call it. Without the POOR, they wouldn't seem so rich - right?

Bunch of sanctimonious fools.

Militant Leftist
Thank you: good comment and many reasonable points.

You are correct: we haven't seen the EPA-type report on the specific mine he mentioned, but I doubt the corn his kid tried to deliver was environmentally hazardous.

As for the mine and the plastics factory, we've learned the hard way that such can ruin a town rather than save it. So, I agree that the writer has not provided enough information on these specific instances for us to reach our own conclusions.

Did you expect him to? This is, after all, a column about the clash of priorities, not the merits of any one project. Those are just examples for the case he presents: prosperity thru industrial development. It's a darn good case, too, and the historical examples of its success far outnumber its (sometimes spectacular) failures.

His key question is whether an industrial revolution such as we had is a good thing. He asks, "Are we worse off for it? Would we prefer to return to the jobs, lifestyles and living standards of pre-industrial, pre-electrical America?"

No, we would not. The people who did that hard and dangerous work (if the canary drops get, get our fast) went in with their eyes open, accepting the risks as worth the reward of a better life for themselves and their children. Were they fools who should have had a Mark Fenn there to protect them?

I'd suspect a Madagascar mine of 2007 would be far safer than an American mine of 1907, do they have less cojones than our g-g-g-g-grandfathers?

About your hotel room: that's about the way I expect to live when I'm old, and it'll be enough for me. Wouldn't it be great if the folks in Fort Dauphin, Madagascar could enjoy that standard of living, too?

Need a little bit more infor
Any single issue organization can lose it's way getting got up in its own group think. Thats why we don't want our country run either by the Chamber of Commerce or Greenpeace.

Even the situation the author described without the mines is hard to judge without some information. Some mines are relatively non-intrusive to the environment and the people that live next to them. Others dramatically change the environment by creating a large amount of waste. Often times deadly poisons are used in mining which can basically destroy the agriculture for miles around.

Just because a mine brings jobs, doesn't necessarily mean that it brings local jobs. Mining is dangerous work that uses dangerous equipment. I imagine you don't want to hire any illiterates. Are they going to wait to teach the villagers to read or are they going to import people educated people from somewhere else. If so the biggest increase in employment may be in the service industry (read prostitution).

But it may well be that the author has managed to find some worthy project that is being opposed by ideologues of the environmental industry. Well I am sure that the energy industry is not lacking in money to make its case. I would imagine the movie described by the author might have been funded by these very interests. Mr. Innis certainly hasn't bothered to in his column.

As for his implication that large mining projects will raise nations out of poverty. Large mining operations have been a mainstay of economies in Africa and South America for centuries (Way before the existence of Environmental groups). If these mines were going to lift these countries out poverty. It would have done so a long time ago.

The real problem that the author ignores is that baring some miracle, we are simply incapable of providing the energy resources necessary to provide an American style lifestyle for everybody in the world. And it seems more and more likely that we need to reduce our global energy consumption to prevent serious environmental degradation which will hurt these poor people most of all.

To really deal with these issues we are going to have to make real changes in the way that we live. In the west that may mean an end to retired couples living in huge climate controlled Mcmansions. It may mean an end to 3 and 4 car families. It may also mean a lot more nuclear power plants.

My wife and I live in a small hotel room with a mini fridge, a small oven, and small microwave. We haven't owned a car in over ten years. It may not be for everyone, but it could be for a lot more people. The concept that the answer to everything is more material possessions not only ignores joys of the spiritual and intellectual world, but also encourages us to consume in a manner that is not sustainable.

Always forgotten by conservatives when talk of forgiving the debts of corrupt dictators, is who installed them in the first place, often to benefit' you guessed it, large mining industries.
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