Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Thursday, July 09, 2009
Ross Mackenzie :: Townhall.com Columnist
Sarah Palin: As Intelligent as a Bag of Hammers?
by Ross Mackenzie
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Does it make any sense, what Sarah Palin has done?

Little that is happening these days seems to make much sense, particularly regarding the Republicans.

But I mean, just up and resigning as governor of Alaska? All the experts say it's the wrong thing to do. That it sends the wrong message - giving up on the only statewide elected post she's ever held. That it confirms she really is the ditz they have suggested since John McCain vaulted her to fame.

A couple of points. First, the political landscape stands dramatically changed from just a year ago - and the media landscape along with it. So, second, it's a landscape regarding which there are no experts. So, third, who's to say Sarah Palin is any more ditzy than the self-styled experts?

Then why would she quit before fulfilling her contract to precisely the Alaskans she says she is quitting to serve better?

Three possibilities. 1) She is a true outsider, as opposed to the ersatz ones most politicians claim to be. 2) She views the unconscionable assaults on her and her family as greatly damaging and beyond the pale, and has concluded her time in politics is up - that, for her, the political game is over. 3) She worries deeply about the future of the country, views the Republican Party as in collapse (Mark Sanford flaming out with an Argentine bar dancer), and - on this new political landscape - sees herself as a possible flag around which Republicans, conservatives and moderates can rally.

Well, what Mark Sanford did with Maria Belen Chapur wasn't so bad as lying about it. And sex hasn't proven fatal to a lot of pols - from Thomas Jefferson to John Kennedy to Bill Clinton. It didn't spell the end for Rudy Giuliani or Newt Gingrich either.

But it did finish off Gary Hart, who in 1987 dared the press to track him, which it did - all the way to the yacht Monkey Business and the spicy blonde Donna Rice. And it finished Eliot Spitzer and too many forgotten pols to count.

So Sanford should have resigned, and Sarah Palin shouldn't have?

About Sanford, probably. About Palin, hard to say. Still, it's difficult to escape the conclusion that many of the comments about her resignation from those who fear her or wish her ill betray a sexism infusing the left. It's a leftist axiom that good-looking conservative women have the intelligence of a bag of hammers. Of course, a corollary holds that the uniformly left-leaning damsels of Hollywood were born uniformly brilliant - theirs being the brilliance of ideological congeniality.

I don't see what all that has to do with Sarah Palin's resignation as governor of Alaska, and the Republicans, and what you call this new political landscape.

Okay.

Retrospectively, the Obama election may have been truly revolutionary in many ways - more so than the election of Ronald Reagan. Demographics are running strongly in the liberals' and Democrats' favor. The Obama White House insists on overseeing next year's Census, with agents from ACORN, thereby to redraw the political map even more lopsidedly in favor of the left.

With the Republican Party increasingly leaderless and seemingly on a descent into the maelstrom, the conservative/moderate remnant may require a galvanic force. A leader. An opposition on the British model, the sort of opposition rarely seen in America - if ever.

There's Bobby Jindal of Louisiana. And Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota. And Governor, maybe soon a senator, Charlie Crist of Florida. And Sen. John Thune of South Dakota. And there's always former governor Mitt Romney of Massachusetts, and former governor Mike Huckabee of Arkansas.

Sarah Palin may see them as failing or flawed. And with the ethics process in Alaska having been turned against her for partisan/ideological purposes, and proving crippling financially, and a disabling distraction, she may have decided that if she is even to try to serve as a catalytic agent for conservatives and moderates nationwide, she has to devote her energies to that task full-time.

It won't be easy. And does she have the gravitas, the intellectual heft?

They - the nameless "they" who rule the world - said Ronald Reagan was just a B movie actor lacking gravitas and heft, too. What's more, it's a new landscape and a game perhaps never played before. And heaven knows, conservatives and moderates - the Republican remnant - need someone. Someone to start saying....

That government under the Obama administration is the nation's primary growth industry. That the more power government accrues, the more government fails. That deficits and taxes destroy productivity and innovation. That energy independence - including nuclear power - is as important for the United States as it is (as Obama notes repeatedly) for Iran. That one of the two most important things a government must do is stabilize the currency.

That socialized medicine and cap-and-trade are the wrong ways to go. That having Hawaii or Alaska or Des Moines targeted by North Korean nuclear missiles is unacceptable. That joining the Fidelista-Chavista chorus regarding Honduras is idiocy. That Islamo-jihadists still are warring against us - and the other crucial thing the government must do is defend the citizenry.

So is Sarah the one to say such things?

We may be about to find out.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Ross Mackenzie lives with his wife and Labrador retriever in the woods west of Richmond, Virginia. They have two grown sons, both Naval officers.

Be the first to read Ross Mackenzie's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

The correct answer
is 2A above. Listen to what she says, not what you surmise about her.

Actually
"They - the nameless "they" who rule the world - said Ronald Reagan was just a B movie actor lacking gravitas and heft, too"

He was. Ronald Reagan was a pox on the Republican party as the last 30 years have proven. The only bigger pox has been Rush Limbaugh.

The Republican Party will never go anywhere as long as it sees itself reflected in those two mirrors.

Moderates?
You keep referring to "conservatives and moderates" in your piece. That is strange. The Republicans have made a concerted effort to rid their party of moderates. They are given the pejorative label RINOs and made to feel quite unwelcome.

So it's the Leftist ? Heh !
-----------------------
"It's a leftist axiom that good-looking conservative women have the intelligence of a bag of hammers."
----------------------

- The woman is inarticulate and under-educated

- She begs for the adjectives like Flaky and Wacky

- She's a flashy person who doesn't have the credentials for any job

- This is a Woman who has used her good-looks and her gender to get ahead in this political world

( Conservative FOX NEWS contributor Liz Trotta. )

---------------------

So it's the Leftist...... ?
Liz Trotta is the same woman who wished Obama Dead during the General Campaign so she is not LEFTIE.


Palin Lies___ and Also.
During her resignation speech last week, Palin said that money being spent on government lawyers to defend against these “frivolous ethics violations” could be “going to things that are very important, like troopers and roads and teachers and fish research.”

But David Murrow, a spokesperson for the Governor, said in an interview that much of this money was budgeted to the lawyers in advance and would have gone to them anyway, even if state lawyers hadn’t been defending against these ethics complaints.

Liz Trotta, a Palin hater
friend of snarky MoDo of NYT.
Sky Pete, just because the money was budgeted does not mean a government employee, Obama or his wife has to spend it. Previous Alaska governor had budgets for a chef and an SUV; Gov. Palin nixed the chef and SUV and drive herself on a Jetta. You heard about the previous governor's jet she sold, right? How much is Michelle's budget for the whole family's trip to Europe and Russia? May I ask? Gov. Palin reimbursed the state for her childrens expenses when they traveled with her. She did not have to. It was budgeted... Jeeeeeeez.

atemely

Yes the money was budgeted... but what part of
'Would Have Gone To The Lawyers Anyway' did you miss ?

The money she keeps referring to was a summation of the salaries of the lawyers the Alaskan State Government has on staff. No lawyers were hired our retained just to do her against this complaints. NONE Zip Zero.

When she leaves those lawyers will still be there and getting paid.

IE.
It hasn't cost Alaska an additional penny to defend Palin against these ethics complaints.
Those funds could not and would not have gone to pay for more fireman, state troopers and fish research. as she implied.
---
Sarah nixed the chef and the jet because she was rarely in Juneau and preferred tp stay and work most of the time in Wasilla instead. She phoned it in .

----
How much is Michelle's budget for the whole family's trip to Europe and Russia?

Problem the same as Laura's when she and the twins traveled with George to foreign lands that would have them.

But they are the First Family and the first lady acts as an official extension to our H ead of State

---- Jeez


Sky Pete misses the forest for the trees
They were FRIVOLOUS ethics charges, goofy.

But you're ok with that as long as the money was budgeted for it anyway.

Talk about dumb as a bag of hammers.


to take care of her family
that's why Palin resigned. simple as that. maybe she will make a comeback in the future. She needs to deeply study the issues, especially foreign policy, or run for senate, or both.

It doesn't take a lot of smarts to be
President, it takes common sense and guts, both of which Sarah Palin has in spades.

Presidents surround themselves with experts and advisors, the trick is to figure out which one is giving the best advice, that's where the common sense comes in.

If your agenda is to return this country to it's constitutionally mandated roots and cut out the BS that's been killing it for years, you have to listen to Palin.

Love your country, want to see it protected, especially from domestic enemies?
Gotta go with Palin.
She is already a better leader than the fool in the WH and was better last year.

Palin is an American in the old style, you know, like US, not a communist who has an agenda to destroy this country...if she ran and pointed out exactly what this fool is up to and didn't play games about it, she'd kick his butt back to Chitown.


Palin Haters
My Mother would slap me if I denigrated a woman I have never met. Opinions are like noses, we all have one but most on this board absorb our opinions from what we read and hear. Read from a discredited MSM and hear from the biased generated by a controlled parade of left wing talking heads. No originality from either source. I have never met Sarah Palin and I will not succumb to playground teenage like gossip and rumors. I heard her speak the other night informally and I was impressed; the media can try to dissuade my opinion but they need not. In my lifetime the media has become more distrustful, created more false heroes, supported more wrong issues, and lost more credibility than any other professional segment of our society.The media is now nothing more than a political hack devoid of objectivity and infected by the paper cut of a dwindling supply of sponsor dollars. The Media roams the allies of Socialism seeking support from the likes of Soros while groveling at the feet of radical, dictated, biased reporting.

Sarah needs to study
Sarah needs to study up on foreign policy issues. Maybe she and Obama could become study buddies and learn the stuff together.
Perhaps Sarah could teach Obama a thing or two about Economics and Energy Independence and he could teach her how to best use the Teleprompter.

She's Too Common!
These "Consevervatives" are so concerned about Sarah Palin's intelligence, or lack of, want to save us from her ruining the country, is admirable. Please, don't worry, your elitist point of view, is not asked for or appreciated. Sarah is a genuine, loving, down to earth lady. She has more sincerity in her pinky then all you snooty, supposed intellectuals, such Liz Trota, Peggy Noonan, Kathleen Collins and all those; "Conservative Snob Douchbags!" It must tick them off when someone such as Sarah Palin comes onto the scene, she isn't full of herself and she knows how to talk to "regular" people! She didn't attend a prestigious university. She had to do the beauty contest route to pay her way through collage. What a crock! "How Could Anyone Listen To Her?" "She's Not Of The Intellectual Set." What a bunch of snobby assholes! I'll take her any day, over this bunch of pseudo intellectuals!

Numbers
It's all about numbers, the people will decide who has Americas best interest at heart. That decision will prove or disprove the pundits. I suspect we are about to see the unshackled Sarah coming directly to the people. I think it's going to be fun to watch. As a matter of fact, I think the Left is going to be wishing that they had just left her alone , all the way up there in Alaska, after the election. I think they created their worst fear about Sarah. You see, they made her mad. The Huntress is coming! God bless America and Sarah Palin.

gayle...
thanks for the laugh this morning!

SARAH PALIN: CONVICTION POLITICIAN
Sarah Palin announced her resignation as Alaska’s governor 164 days into the Obama Administration. 164 is the 64th number in the one hundred series, a number that has meaning for Palin in that it signifies the year 1964, the politically relevant and meaningful year of her birth. For this was the year that Arizona senator Barry Goldwater, John McCain’s predecessor, was defeated by Lyndon Johnson and Republicans were trounced in Congressional races. As this happened 44 years before the 2008 election-the number of the presidency McCain was seeking-Goldwater's defeat prophetically prefigured McCain’s (McCain said as much after the election).

Click my name and read the rest of Sarah Palin: Conviction Politician and True American Woman

A limerick for Sarah
Her critics will claim she's obtuse
And pretend she's a little bit loose,
But they'd better beware
When they vent their hot air
That they don't sound too much like a moose!

A double limerick on libs in general
Our pestilent liberal snobs
Dismiss the productive folks' jobs
As demeaning and vile
And SO mercantile,
Fit only for ignorant slobs.

But some folks are onto them now,
And many are starting to vow
To vote out the snobs
Who make fun of their jobs
While leading without knowing how.

Warrrior
Well said Warrior!

*Support* your allies!!
Don't repeat your enemy's slurs and distortions.

The makes Ross Mackenzie's opinions look like, let me see, he is as dumb as a bag of hammers.

Hey Ross, Obama and the Left Wing Media are the ENEMY!

Fight, don't mew their propaganda back to us.

One thing's
sure, foreign leaders would not be calling an intelligent woman like Sarah Palin a 'nincompoop,ignoramus,idiot and a few other deserved names.

Obama is one stupid dude!!

Good for Sarah!
Sarah Palin has faced relentless assaults on her family, her performance as Governor, her appearance and manner of speaking. Ethics attacks have cost her about $500K of her own money for lawyers. These attacks have affected her ability to properly govern Alaska and harmed her family emotionally and financially.

For the good of Alaska and her family Sarah decided enough is enough. Good for her. She can really become a thorn in the side her liberal attackers and make a ton of money speaking as a private citizen while pushing the conservative agenda. She will have her own TV show within a year. Get ready for the liberal howling.

Maybe it is time . . .
for the ?republican? party to go the way of the whigs and for a NEW TRUE conservative party to take its place. Since Sarah Palin has been attacked BY HER OWN party "operatives" the republican? party has shown its true colors as democRAT light.
Go Sarah go!

good move
conservatives reagan values ,hope she speaks loud and clear and often , (charlie gibson rematch) talk radio, rush , fox, , also need to flush out all those blue blood republicans , like charles krathammer , and johan goldburg , debbie saunders

Totally Transparent
Sarah Palin is the only true conservative LEADER that is around these days. Her resignation has been completely misread as weakness by even Fox News. The way I see it.... she is EXPOSING the left wing conservative HATERS for who they really are - BULLIES! She has exposed that they do not care how much money their actions cost anyone - even the good people of Alaska (2Million plus for defense).

I've never been a Sarah follower but clearly see an up and coming LEADER for all of us who are tired of the political game that has been going on for years.



Sarah Tsunami
I'll take Sarah any day over the namby-pambys running the GOP today, especially the last standard bearer. The North Vietnamese took all the fight out of John McCain. He was old and tired and still the Rockefeller Repubs nominated him. He crashed four or five planes during his careers and, helped by an incompetent staff, crashed his campaign. We hope, by some miracle, that his copilot, Sarah, survived to fight another day. God knows millions of us are seeking a leader to destroy liberal totalitarian rule and renew a free America.

The Democrats every day proceed to tear our guts out and our "leaders" demand that we "act nice." Politics IS a bloodsport and I want to see the barracuda from Alaska chew up these metrosexuals and jealous NOW types and spit them out.

Screw Political Correctness: Give them hell, Sarah, and watch Republicans and conservation form an almighty army (N.B., atheists: a Christian army) that will wash over the liberals and Democrats like a tsunami!

Bag of hammers????
Whatever Sarah decides to do, after her resignation, you can be assured, it will be with determination, guts and common sense.

Anyone male or female, who dismisses Sarah on account of her good looks, is as shallow as their opinion. This woman has an American spirit and heart, and the Christian convictions to fight for our country, and not give it away, one apology and deep bow at a time.

Those with ears to hear and eyes to see know that Sarah has already been tested in the fires of this country's political Hell.

Whatever her decisions, she has an American birth certificate, and already has a life that does not include simply voting "present", so you know what her stance is on any of the issues.

Dumb as a bag of hammers?
Consider this one: A hammer in the right hands can build. In the wrong hands, it can tear down.
Our country would be in much better hands with someone with the guts to actually build instead of reading their lines from a teleprompter, and using those hammers on a daily basis to tear down America.

Whatever Sarah decides to do......may God bless her and her family.
And should it be to move on to bigger things, politically, she already has my vote.
After the last farce of an election, it would be a real breath of fresh air to be able to actually vote FOR a candidate, instead of using your vote to vote against the lesser of two evils.

She must be doing something right
if she has so many critics telling her how wrong she is.

Waste of Time to Read This Article
Wow. Doesn't anyone vet the writing on Townhall any more? Talk about rambling tripe with nothing to say.


What, no bashing?
Ross,

Thanks for taking time to look at all sides of the issue and not just parrot back the talking head drivel about how Sarah's resignation is the end of her political career. She has a vital role to play in the re-birth of the Republican Party and seems quite eager to get down to work.

It is my hope that while Sarah and other conservative Republicans are trying to lead their party out of the wilderness, she uses this unique moment of celebrity status to build up her family fortunes.

By becoming a millionaire, in addition to being a well-respected conservative spokesman, this will just frost the fannies of all those liberal bloggers, talk show hosts, and MSM pundits who have tried to destroy her since day one. I didn't notice if Sarah used all five fingers to wave goodbye to them. I wouldn't have.

Sarah Palin is already
yesterday's news.

Republicans should show that for once they're not tied to the past and move on to something important that involves the rest of the country.

New ideas and new players are the only way you are going to get people (voters) to take you seriously.

Michael Jackson, Farrah Fawcett, my grandmother and Sarah Palin are all dead to us. Move on.

Beating a dead horse is pointless
and makes you all look crazy.

Plus, the part of America who vote and who have genuine interest in the political scene are already bored with her.

McCain & Obama
What did these two have in common? They both picked vice presidents that are smarter than they are.

She said Immoral
that's more than any other squishy political hack has said about Obama. She has more grit than Steele or any of the other supposed rising leaders of the GOP you mentioned. I don't think the Liberal machine has ever seen anything like her and don't know how else to take her down. They can attack her policies,but wait,America seems to like them. They have attacked her family and she's taken it and come back. They can attack her personally,wait they've done that too. If there's no ethics board to complain to -no one to run tell on her-then what? Like her or not she's coming. Coming for all those who want to do our country,economy,and liberty harm. She is coming for them all no matter what party they claim.

moderate?
This guy keeps referring to "conservatives and moderates." Where are the moderates who would support Sarah Palin? Only wingnuts support her, people.

Jane
I am sorry, I thought only wingnuts supported his Majesty, the Messiah himself, Obama?

Governor Palin
did what she did for her own reasons. Who are you to decide whether it was the "right" thing to do? Of course, it will have consequences. It was up to her to weigh those in making her decision. Your comments are based on the assumption that there is some political maneuvering going on here. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know and neither do you.

Obama's Approval Rating Tanks !

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday ( 07/09/09 ) shows that 30% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-eight percent (38%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of –8.

Hang In There Palin !

Charlie Crist an opposition leader?
Whatever. Why is he listed here? He's a RINO! He pushed Florida leaders to vote for the porkulus package. Marco Rubio for Senate! Forget Crist.

maybe Palin will....
Let the woman alone, she has many avenues to go down and as for getting things done for Alaska maybe she will bring back her arguements for drilling ANWR...remember, before McCain she approached the dems with a letter from the people of Alaska requesting/demanding they drill ANWR as a matter of national security? It is no secret that the majority of Alaskans are okay with the drilling...wouldn't you rather drill because it is feasible and a good part of a total plan or would you rather wait and say we HAVE TO drill because we are being raped by overseas oil prices and also in the middle of the next oil crisis? As for the dems energy policy it sounds like their answer is just blowing in the wind...and as for the predator control Alaskans got that together also... we need that in DC where the wolves hide under sheep's clothing!!!!! Go Sarah

A few things
If you think Palin has a future in politics after quiting the people she swore a oath to serve then you are insane. Who can say she wouldn't quit as president when things got tough in the White House? The Oval Office can be a lonely place. The media would be just as rough with her then as they are now--more so. Attacks on her family would continue as well as would the law suits over ethics.

She obviously doesn't have what it takes to be president and it is better we found this out now rather than when she was the GOP nominee or god forbid, president. And she is rather intellectually shallow as well.

Gary hart didn't get killed off because he had an affair, he got killed off because he was wreckless. When rumors of his affairs came out he challenged the press to follow him and followed it up with "you'll be bored." They did and caught him. Anyone so wreckless as to challenge the press to follow you and then go out in plain sight with a woman that is not your wife is too wreckless to have control over the nuclear launch codes in 1988.

Sanford sould resign. He voted to impeach Clinton over Lewinsky calling his actions reprehensible. He fits the narrative what far too many people believe is the norm among conservatives and Republicans. First class hypocrits, while preaching high moral standards and then doing the exact same thing they are preaching against. Yes, Democrats do the same things, but they don't usually set themselves up as the symbols of moral purity. And like Palin, better this happened now instead of after Sanford had the nomination. I think though this would have come out sooner rather than later. In Chinese there is a saying, zhi baobu zhuhuo, paper can not cover a fire.

Akaqi
Anyone ever tell you that you are a moron and a da#n liar.........i will.

All you Socialist voters need help getting in out of the rain.

J
"to take care of her family that's why Palin resigned."

And will she use this excuse when thigs get rough at 1600 Penn. Ave?

"...simple as that. maybe she will make a comeback in the future."

Anything is possible, even Nixon was able to greatly improve his standing by the time he died as one of America's elder statesman on foreign policy.

"She needs to deeply study the issues, especially foreign policy, or run for senate, or both."

Yes, saying you can see Russia (Big Diomede) from Alaska (Little Diomede)--and yes she did say this--isn't going to cut it.

Akagi
So Obama and Hillary aren't worth a dam either by your reasoning. Hillary even said she wouldn't run for President when she campaigned for her Senate seat. Did Obama even show up at the Senate other than to be sworn in?

Oh wait - they're Dems so by your standard that's okay. Dems can redefine sex, run male prostitue rings, and get caught outright taking bribes and yet still get re-elected by their idiot supporters. Who are the true hypocrites?

Akagi
"Yes, saying you can see Russia (Big Diomede) from Alaska (Little Diomede)--and yes she did say this--isn't going to cut it."

Saying there are 57 state doesn't rank up there with Einstein either. At least Palin didn't need Affirmative Action to get into college when Barry was coming from one of the most open states in the Union. The guy wasn't denied, he was just not smart enough then and still not that intelligent. All flash without any substance.

2012
Palin/Beck in 2012

LD35
Didn't vote for Obama, so strike that from your list. I hoped McCain would have won (but knew that when Leman Brothers failed a few days after McCain's nomination, Obama would be elected president).

How am I a moron? And where did I lie? Think someone who quits mid-term has a political future? Okay, if you want to hold on to those delusions, be my guest.

As for the rain, depends how hard it is, a light rain during the summer can be rather nice actually.

I am convinced
The Sarah haters would rape and kill her if they had the chance. The hatefulness coming from these people is mind bogling.

CONSERVATIVES WILL RALLY AROUND PALIN

.....Governor Rick Perry has already asked Palin to come to Texas to campaign with him against Washington insider Kay Bailey Hutchinson ...

.....If Perry defeats Hutchinson with Palin's help then its rally 'round the Flag boys. .....COLOSSUS

Poli
"Who are the true hypocrites?"

Those who preach one moral standard and live by another. One thing to run for higher office and then quit once elected (LBJ, Clinton) or appointed (a long list, but Ford, H. Clinton as examples).

And how do you know Obama was an AA admission, not saying he wasn't, but anyt proof he was. Just because you are admitted to college or the law school and are black doesn't mean you wouldn't have been accepted if you weren't.

AKAGI GA

.....If you were a King Maker ...who would you select to be President ...and why? .....COLOSSUS

A BAG OF HAMMERS

.....I would rather vote for a Bag of Hammers before I would vote for Obama ...at least the hammers would not try to destroy our economy and turn us into a Banana Republic ...

.....Hey Tally man tally me banana ...

.....Daylight come an me wanna go home ....

.....COLOSSUS

Baradiel
I don't hate her and wish she was now VP and McCain stayed healthy. Just that she isn't all that bright, her pick was an act of desperation by McCain and her quiting as governor will doom any chances of her becoming president. Seeing who Alaska elects (Ted Stevens for example), she may one day reach the Senate though.

William:

And Sarah is also one of the main reasons there is no pipeline, her populist crusade against big oil especially against Exxon cut off the three major gas suppliers from the AGIA process and the CEO of the company AGIA picked, TransCanada has doubts that the AGIA pipeline will ever be built. Exxon is going ahead with its own pipeline project and unlike AGIA done with zero government dollars and again unlike AGIA and TransCanada, Exxon (and BP and Conoco) actuall has gas to pipe through a pipeline.


Baseball
In 2008, Bob Barr and who I voted for.

Because he respects the idea of limited government, viewed the Iraq invasion as a stupid mistake, viewed the Patriot Act (what an Orwellian term that was) as illegal (he did vote for it when he was in Congress, but has since said that vote was a mistake), sees marriage laws as a state issue just as drug laws. Basically unlike so-called conservatives won't use the power of the state to enforce their own moral codes on the rest of us and unlike liberals won't use the power of the state to tell us what cars we can drive and what light bulbs we can use or how big our houses can be.




Palin-Bashers Reek of Hypocrisy

One of the chief accusations currently being leveled at Governor Palin is that she is a “quitter,” What has she done that makes her a quitter?

Governor Palin is quitting her office before the end of her term because she has chosen to do something else. We don’t yet know exactly what, because she has been cryptic about her future plans. She has only made it clear that she wishes to play a greater national role.

This seems much the same as,

Barack Obama recently quit the U.S. Senate before the end of his term. Joe Biden recently quit the U.S. Senate before the end of his term. Hillary Clinton recently quit the U.S. Senate before the end of her term. Janet Napolitano recently quit her governorship before the end of her term.

These people all quit their positions because they chose to do something different. Right or wrong, they all believed that they could better serve the country by abandoning their elected posts. Yet no one calls them quitters.

What difference does it make that we know exactly why they chose to quit their elected offices and we don’t yet know Governor Palin’s plans. I have yet to get a reasonable answer to this question.

obama is far more stupid

and ignorant than Palin. All you have to do is listen to obama for more than five minutes and his ignorance and stupidity will be clear for all to hear.

Palin runs rings around obama when it comes to smarts.

obama may be the most stupid and ignorant president this country has ever elected. The only saving part is that he is not a natural born citizen of the U.S.A. This means that everything he does while sitting in the oval office is illegitimate and we will have to reverse or repass everyone of his decisions.

Baseball--Part I
"Governor Rick Perry has already asked Palin to come to Texas to campaign with him against Washington insider Kay Bailey Hutchinson ..."

No doubt help him with those who vote in GOP primaries--Palin is no doubt popular among the right-wing, Christian sect (depending which polls you like Perry is either way ahead (+12) or close to the margain of error (+4), but even in the +12 poll he only has 33% support, that can't be a good sign when you are the sitting governor. Palin may help him win the nomination, but she won't be much help in the general election especially in regards to recent events.

Also, looking at his support for requiring Texas children to be vaccinated with Gardasil (no doubt as a result of being bought by Merck), I don't see how a limited government conservative could support him. Sure he talks a good game to the yahoos about state rights and even talks of secession, but look what he does, not what he says.

You might want to know that one of Merck's chief lobbyists in the state was Perry's former Chief of Staff and Merck gave Perry $6,000 (if not more under the table)through its PAC in 2006 during his re-election campaign.


Baseball--Part II
As "Deep Throat" said, follow the money. Here in Georgia, Gardasil's main pointman was (and still is) a Republican as well, Senator Don Balfour who's real job is as an accountant for that crem-de-le-crem restaurant chain, Waffle House and who graduated from that premier educational institution, Bob Jones University (which for years banned interracial dating and said the Pope was the anti-Christ). He serves on the Health and Human Services Cmte. and the Education Cmte which passes bills dealing with schools as well as vaccines...any wonder one of his key sources of campaign cash is from firms such as Merck?

Sadly, no real conservative ran against him in 2008 either in the primary or general election. He was unopposed both times. Well, he does represent Gwinnett County (aka hell on earth), so they get the senator they deserve.

Who is the ignorant leftist

that thinks you cannot see Russia from Alaska?

Talk about displaying your ignorance. Even school children know you can see Russia across the Bering Strait from Alaska.

Should such ignorance devalue all such a poster has to write, probably.

Policiticians resigning elected office

in order to advance their careers is a common occurrence.

GO SARAH
Liberals, “moderates”, and RINO’s, say that Sarah Palin “Quit” when she resigned from the Governorship of Alaska for a number of personal reasons, and that it was a big mistake for her to do so.

Sarah was the most-qualified candidate in 2008, and was stabbed in the back by McCain and the RINO Party. She is the most honorable person who can run for public office in the country. She will not run as the Governor of Alaska, and will not collect a salary from the People of Alaska. She will not be charging one cent in expenses to the state or the nation.

Barack Obamination ran for President while he was supposed to be working as the Senator from Illinois. Most of his term was spent campaigning, and the People of Illinois were not represented in the Senate. All this time he was collecting Senatorial pay and benefits and racking up expenses for the Senate.

Hanoi John Kerry ran for President as the Senator from MA, and collected Senatorial pay and benefits, even though his wife’s $5,000,000 annual stipend from Heinz Foods could have sustained him throughout the campaign. He also left the people unrepresented in the Senate while he campaigned.

Sarah Palin has refused to force her constituents to support her while campaigning for whatever job she may seek. The State of Alaska will be governed by the new Governor who trained as Lt. Governor. Again, Sarah is the most honorable person on the political scene today. We need many more Honest Conservatives to run for national office. The blueblood, country club elites, and RINO’s should be forced out of the GOP and run as the liberal Democ-rats they are, and be replaced with Authentic Conservatives.

Way Down South
Hardly.

Since the US doesn't allow for those to be both Senator and President at the same time, he had to resign didn't he? If McCain and Palin had been elected no one would have complained she resigned as governor nor McCain. Can't be like the Kingfish now can we and hold both offices (Huey P. Long basically acting as governor (or dictator) as well as Senator). This has to one of the most inane comments I've read on TH in a long time. You get the Anne of PA prize for the day.

She is free to quit, but just be aware this will be a major issue if she ever again decides to run for elected office. If she had quit during the campaign it wouldn't have been much of an issue either, Bob Dole did this in 1996.

When you quit in politics makes all the difference. My own view is she quit because being in the white hot center during the campaign, now doing the actual in the trenches work way out in the backwoods of Alaska seems rather dull and boring. Basically, she has outgrown Alaska. But will those not a member of the Palin cult forgive her for leaving nearly two years too soon? The answer is probably no.

Hypocrisy of the left
For the past 40 years the left has been telling women that they can "Have it All". They can have a happy family And a career.

Then along comes Sarah who follows this belief, and is Vilified by the left who claim to care about women's issues.

Why do they hate her?
Because she doesn't fit their cokkie cutter vision of a woman, who should be "pro choice". Because Palin Chose to keep her handicapped child, which the left believe should have been destroyed, (Good eugenicists aren't they?).

Where was NOW, when the left was Ripping her to shreds in the media? Oh wait, they were shredding along with the rest of the left.

NOW should change their name to NOLW because they only care about Liberal women. If you're not a marxist you're not a woman according to the left.

Of course, only a leftist would think it's funny to distort the picture of a down's syndrome baby into some sort of monster, Offer said baby on e-bay as a "joke", or "make jokes" about baseball players raping 14 year old girls.

Does this mean that it's open season on Sasha and Malia Jokes????? Maybe we should be like wanda sykes and wish kidney failure on our political opponents???

This is further proof that many "Open Minds" need to be closed for Repair.


And yet here you are...
" Sarah Palin is already
yesterday's news."

...Twice

"Plus, the part of America who vote and who have genuine interest in the political scene are already bored with her."

What, no news out there on Mars?

Ron
"Sarah was the most-qualified candidate in 2008..."

And she was the most qualified because....

"Barack Obamination ran for President while he was supposed to be working as the Senator from Illinois."

And Palin was supposed to be working as governor and McCain as senator...so?????

Eddie, too

You can see Russia from Little Diomede Island by seeing Big Diomede Island some 2 miles away. At no other place in Alaska can you see Russia and Palin NEVER has stepped foot on Little Diomede. But even if she could see Russia from her house as the SNL skit went, it would not make her an expert on Russia or US-Russia relations or anything else.

She had little knowledge of USFP, Alaska is hardly the center of the USFP establishment and saying you can see one small Russian island from one small Alaska one doesn't make you an expert on foreign policy. The strait is over 50 miles wide and on the coast of Alaska if you look west the only thing you'll see is water.




Eddie too
"The only saving part is that he is not a natural born citizen of the U.S.A."

Proof of this would be nice. Like proof his mother was ever in Kenya, or proof she was in Kenya in August 1961, explaining how she got Obama into the US when just a few weeks after his birth he was in Washington State, any immigration documents? Why did the Department of State issue him a passport then?

I knock down these unconfirmed claims before you set them up.

There was no travel ban to Pakistan in 1981, so he could (and no doubt did) use a US passport to enter that country. He would have been unable to become a ciitzen of Indonesia when he lived there between 1967 and 1971 under the 1958 Indonesian Nationality Act. Being a natural born dual national (which he was, but is no longer) doesn't bar you from running for president.


I love Sarah's free-wheeling style
Sara is like a breath of fresh air wherever she goes and whatever she does. Nothing boring about this woman. This is one of the reasons liberals are afraid of her. They fear anyone who thinks outside the box even though they claim to be the who do that. They can't think outside the box, because if they did it wouldn't fit the liberal dogma or pattern.

The fact that she could give could give up the power is so revolting to liberals it would be the same thing to them as eating your own vomit. They wouldn't even consider doing that.

I know this much about Sarah by watching and listening to her...she is a fighter and she is leveraging herself to be in a much better position to counter the liberal influence in this country.

Akagi
You mean that ban that Bob Jones University instituted in the 1950's because an Asian family sued them because their son was going to marry a white girl?

As to Obama's AA status he claimed in an interview it was his only option since the school system was tilted to the majority white culture. This ignores the fact that he was educated by Arabs until he was 11 and then in the Hawaiian school system where White, Asian, and Native children do just fine. Just another example of Barry making excuses for his less than acceptable performance. However, I will give him props for the magna c|_|m laude on his JD (but, it was Harvard).

This man is a dangerous warped socialist who obviously detests America. His constant apology tours are eroding not only our security but that of our European allies as well (i.e. surrendering missile defense to the Russian, a second-rate nation). He supports dictators (Honduras ex-president, mum on Iran) while condemning the legal actions of the citizens.

Light
Sarah is a light that shined in the darkness of a corrupt republican party.

John McCain defended Barack Obama but would not say a word to defend Sarah.

John McCain is the person who ran against Barack Obama,not Sarah.

No one would know that by reading or listening to the comments here, or from the media.

They speak of Sarah as if she was the one running for President and not McCain.

I have never seen a single person have so much impact on the election other than John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.

I think the Rockefeller Republicans fear Sarah more than the democrats do, so they join the left in attacking her.

Seawolf
"President, it takes common sense and guts, both of which Sarah Palin has in spades."

Think cutting out the major gas suppliers for her own populist political agenda out of the AGIA process and giving the contract to TransCanada (which has no gas to pipe) is using your common sense? Let me give you a reality. No pipeline will ever be built that pipes anything but hot air in Alaska without the major oil and gas suppliers onboard. While it might make political sense to poke Exxon in the eye as many Alaskans feel they have been robbed blind by the prodicers, it doesn't make sense if you plan to actually build a pipeline that carrys anything. Even the CEO of TransCanada says he has no idea if the pipeline will ever be built and magic thinking by Palin won't make it so. back on planet earth, Exxon is moving forward with its Denali pipeline project and unlike Palin's AGIA, not spending any government money.


Sarah is honest
Uncorrupted by the money powers, and this is why they fear her so much, her uncorrupted defiance and unbending uprightness.

I love Sarah, the smartest woman or man national politics has produced in a very long time, and this offends the corrupt of both parties.

Last thing they want is a honest person in Government in such a powerful position.

They are quite happy to have to dumbest most corrupt person ever in Barry Soetoro.


TS
"Sarah is a light that shined in the darkness of a corrupt (R)epublican party."

She did energize the base, but that was not enough to do anything for the ticket.

"John McCain defended Barack Obama but would not say a word to defend Sarah."

Examples would be nice.

"John McCain is the person who ran against Barack Obama,not Sarah."

In 2008, but 2008 is over if you didn't know.


"They speak of Sarah as if she was the one running for President and not McCain."

She is the one running (we think) not McCain.

"I have never seen a single person have so much impact on the election other than John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan."

She had little impact on the election, perhaps McCain loses by 9 instead of 7 if she is not on the ticket, but little real impact. The person that had the real impact was Obama and no one was fainting at RWR rallys in 1980.

People don't vote for the #2 spot, they vote for the #1 spot. She had little impact on the election--you can't point to a single state McCain won that he would have lost if say Jindal or Pawlenty was on instead.



Palin/ Beck 2012
As an American woman, I would much rather have a real down to earth person with her feet on the ground and her heart in the right place than a rich snob with one thing on their mind, more personal power!!!! Sarah can speak for me anytime. She has a real concern for our nation, upholds the Constitution, which has kept our country on the right track for all it's history. The liberials forget this fact!!!
She loves God, Country and Family which has always made this country strong. Go Palin/ Beck

Barry Soetoro (his legal name)
Hates America and the US Constitution.

This hate for America has gained him support all across the world.

He taps into the envy and the jealousy of nations across the world and is the cause of his support.

The man is a fraud, there is nothing being told to the public of who he really is.

Its the honest God truth his real name is Barry Soetoro, not the alias Barack Hussein Obama.

To make the alias Barack Hussein Obama legal, he would have had to have his name changed before the Law.

There is no such Legal Documents for this change.

Whats more, he is not even examined by the national media or the pundits here on TH.

Perhaps its the fear of being labeled a conspiracy nut for simply asking for documentation.

That word scares them as much as being called a racist.

Because of fear, corruption in high places continue

TS
"Uncorrupted by the money powers, and this is why they fear her so much, her uncorrupted defiance and unbending uprightness."

Really?

This from Politico:

"Instead of being a reform governor who hates federal "pork" it will become common knowledge that she has lobbied for and gotten $770 million dollars in pork projects making Alaska among the top three states per capita receiving government largess."

"* Far from opposing the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere" pork project, she supported it wholeheartedly only to oppose it when the project became a political bombshell (She kept the bridge money anyway for other Alaskan boondoggles)."

And this as reported in USAToday and elsewhere...

"Palin accepted at least $4,500 in campaign contributions in the same fundraising scheme at the center of a public corruption scandal that led to the indictment of Sen. Ted Stevens."


"As Palin campaigned unsuccessfully in 2002 to become lieutenant governor, she received contributions from executives at VECO Corp., a powerful Alaska oil field services company. Company founder Bill Allen has admitted the company steers its donations through a "special bonus program" in which executives received money and the company instructed them to donate it to favored politicians."


She was given more than 25,000 in gifts as governor many given to her from top executives of major corporations. So much for that claim,. eh, TS?

More to come.

TS
"I love Sarah, the smartest woman or man national politics has produced in a very long time, and this offends the corrupt of both parties."

So smart she couldn't tell anyone what publications she read and took her 55 seconds of dancing before she could try to answer the Bush Doctrine question.

"Last thing they want is a honest person in Government in such a powerful position."

Honest? She nor any person who runs for office is honest, just the degrees of graft differ.

Corruption rules American Government
We have today the most corrupt lying dishonest government in the history of the world.

The dishonesty and the corruption passes Nazi Germany and Communist Russia.

The Nazis and the Communists were very clear as to their aims and goals, but not this present Government in America.

The people holding positions of power have a goal they keep hidden from the American people, and all who speak up about the Corruption in Washington DC get destroyed by dishonest abuse of the Law and the Media, just as they are doing to Sarah.

Due to her honesty, she is refreshing and full of life giving faith that built America.

This is why she is so hated by the vile and dishonest from both parties, both love corrupt men above truth and honesty

TS
"Hates America and the US Constitution."

Proof?

"This hate for America has gained him support all across the world."

Really? Not in Iran for sure nor many other places.

"He taps into the envy and the jealousy of nations across the world and is the cause of his support."

Examples?


"Its the honest God truth his real name is Barry Soetoro, not the alias Barack Hussein Obama."

Proof again? His 1992 marriage certificate doesn't show his name as that. Nor his driver's license record.

"To make the alias Barack Hussein Obama legal, he would have had to have his name changed before the Law."

If we accept your "facts" as true.

"There is no such Legal Documents for this change."

Because no such change happened.

"Whats more, he is not even examined by the national media or the pundits here on TH.

Perhaps its the fear of being labeled a conspiracy nut for simply asking for documentation."

No, you'd be labeled what you are...nutcases and loons.


Linda
"She has a real concern for our nation, upholds the Constitution..."

Except for millions in pork, taking thousands in gifts from business executives with business with the state, thousands more which was part of the same scheme that ensnared Ted Stevens.

And how many states you think a Palin/Beck ticket wins in 2012, I'd bet 10 if that. Lucky for you the GOP isn't that stupid.

Corruption rules America
Today, its the spirit of the rulers.

All honest men are attacked from a corrupt government and media.

There is no such thing as ethics in the political world of Washington DC, just fronts and lip service.

The Spirit of Truth and Honest Government is not welcome any longer among the corrupt minions of the deceit that owns this Government today.

Deceit is the spirit guide of Washinton DC in this day and time.

Minions,obsequious followers dependent on greedy liars; sycophants of men.
Subordinate to money and power,not integrity and honesty.

A servile Government for the most dishonest and deceit filled liars this world has ever produced.

That America, is your government today

There is no intelligence in fraud
Only cunning.
When anyone uses their intelligence to defraud, their intelligence becomes stupidity.

Its cunning craftiness to deceive people, and nothing is intelligent about it.

Slyness and cunning of men makes them very rich in the ways of the world.

Men like Soros, Madoff, and these guys are no different than the people in power in Washington DC.

Corrupt men, full of wickedness and vile vice.

This is why they hate Sarah so much, just as this world has always hated the righteous as Sarah is

Poli
"This ignores the fact that he was educated by Arabs until he was 11."

You mean Indonesia? How many Arabs live in Indonesia exactly? I wasn't aware that the Javanese were Arab. His first two years he was in a Catholic school, followed by two years in a public, secular school.

"This man is a dangerous warped socialist who obviously detests America. His constant apology tours are eroding not only our security but that of our European allies as well (i.e. surrendering missile defense to the Russian, a second-rate nation)."

Saying the US has acted arrogantly in the past and has been dismissive of other views (Bush Doctrine 2.0 comes to mind) is hardly an apology. Any missile defense system in Europe could easily be overwhelmed by the Russians and such a system only encourages them to produce more weapons (which they promised when Bush launched Bush Doctrine 1.0 and decided to pull out of the ABM) which makes you less safe, not more.

"He supports dictators (Honduras ex-president, mum on Iran) while condemning the legal actions of the citizens."

While I think the military acted in a constitutional manner, almost the entire planet has opposed their actions and are calling for his unconditional return as president. He was 100% right on Iran.

To Hell with the Republicans
Perhaps a Palin/Paul Libertarian ticket would generate some interest.....

Sarah's virtue
"This is why they hate Sarah so much, just as this world has always hated the righteous as Sarah is"

Since she has taken millions in pork making Alaska one of the top welfare queen states in the nation (and even supported the Bridge to Nowhere until the uproar caused her to back off...but she kept the money to spend on other Alaskan pork projects), took thousands in gifts from those who had business with the state and took thousands more in a scheme of dubious ethics, saying she is righteous probably is an abuse of the truth. She's a politician, which means if you scratch her you are going to find dirt--how dirty is she, not for me to say.

Sorry TS, she isn't Mother Theresa nor the Virgin Mary nor Kuan Yin (what next, going to claim that Track, Bristol, Willow, Piper, or Trig (or all) were virgin births...and I just thought that was the Aurora Borealis.

His Name is Barry, not Barack
Speaking in strictly a legal description.

When Barry's mother married Lolo Soetoro, Lolo adopted Barry according Indonesian Law.

Lolo was an Indonesian Government Official, bound by the Laws of Indonesia.

He was required by the Laws of Indonesia to adopt Barry.

That is his name legally.
Barry Soetoro, still today

His name is Barry Soetoro
Get used to it.

He has not had his name changed in any legal proceedings.

When he left Indonesia in 1970-71 (thereabouts) and sent to live with his grand parents in Hawaii he still was legally named Barry Soetoro.

There is no records of an official name change to Barack Obama.

When he began to use the name Barack Obama must have occurred at that time, but never by application of law in any court.

Otherwise there would be a record of the name change that is open to the public in Court Records in Hawaii.

Investigators have not found such papers.

Barry Soetoro is his legal name

The media in America
Thrives on dirt, blood, corruption,murder, theft as sources for their stories chosen for selling their information.

Known for heavy duty criticism of anything and everything other presidents say or do.

Barry Soeptoro is the exception to the rule, as they protect him from critics, questions that demand answers.

When there is no transparency in the media or the government, corruption prospers.

No one will find a single critic of Barry Soetoro in the no longer main stream media of ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, the corporate "news" agencies.

This all by itself shows there is a cover-up and collusion of powers to defraud the American people

TS
"When Barry's mother married Lolo Soetoro, Lolo adopted Barry according Indonesian Law."

Proof he was adopted.

"Lolo was an Indonesian Government Official, bound by the Laws of Indonesia."

True, but proof he adopted Obama.

"He was required by the Laws of Indonesia to adopt Barry."

Proof. Cite the law. And even if true, this would have no impact on his name inside the US. Say I move to country ABC and it requires me to change my name to Arthur Dent, it will not follow the US would recognize that my name was now Arthur Dent.




TS
"He has not had his name changed in any legal proceedings."

Yes, funny that neither have I. Seems when you are born you don't have to have legal proceedings to keep your same name.

"When he left Indonesia in 1970-71 (thereabouts) and sent to live with his grand parents in Hawaii he still was legally named Barry Soetoro."

1971. Proof he was ever legally Barry Soetoro in the US.

"There is no records of an official name change to Barack Obama."

Because he was never legally Barry Soetoro.

"When he began to use the name Barack Obama must have occurred at that time, but never by application of law in any court."

Since he was born in the United States as Barack H. Obama, he remains Barack H. Obama (II if you want to be precise).

"Otherwise there would be a record of the name change that is open to the public in Court Records in Hawaii."

True. I bet there is no public record of you changing your name either.

"Investigators have not found such papers."

True. See above.

"Barry Soetoro is his legal name"

On planet rignt-wing nutjobs, perhaps. On this planet it is President Barack Hussein Obama II, get used to it.

akagi
Obama had to have a passport to travel to Indonesia,and from Indonesia to Hawaii.What countryissued his passport,and what name appears on it?

Barry/Barack/Silly Putty
Whatever Obama is called, he is still the manufactured product of the Liberal power players. I wonder if the American people still approve 100% in their choice of the individual to lead our nation? According to Liberally controlled polls, they do, but ask the man or woman on the street and they aren't so sure. It is amusing how many people are fooled by these polls, the same polls that now say that Sarah Palin is finished, a quitter, has lost the faith of the Alaskan people and all people in general. It is best to ignore the polls and put yourself in her place. She is true to her beliefs and her staying Governor when it is evident that the Liberal Democrats will spend what time is left pounding her from all sides, daily, constantly, which are the tactics they have used to push Barry/Barack/Silly Putty into the Presidency and down the American peoples' throats and are still pushing, daily, in our glorious but misguided mainstream media, which is as far from mainsteam as any media can get, to make his Cap-and-Trade and universal health design a "must have situation." This is like asking the hangman to "hurry up and bring the rope." I wish Governor Palin and her family the best of fortunes and hope many Americans do as well. I am saddened, however, because I hate to see an honest politician leave, we have so few these days, you can count them on one hand.

Clifton L. West, a registered Democrat for 54 years, but a Conservative!

Interesting Akagi
Akagi had this to say..

"Since she has taken millions in pork making Alaska one of the top welfare queen states in the nation (and even supported the Bridge to Nowhere until the uproar caused her to back off...but she kept the money to spend on other Alaskan pork projects), took thousands in gifts from those who had business with the state and took thousands more in a scheme of dubious ethics, saying she is righteous probably is an abuse of the truth. She's a politician, which means if you scratch her you are going to find dirt--how dirty is she, not for me to say."

Akagi would you please bless us with all ethics violations by Sarah Palin. The responsible voters in this country would like to know.

A link to her support of the "bridge to nowhere" and a link to her refusing the money for the "bridge to nowhere" would be most gracious of you. Contact Ted Stevens on that one.

Let me ask you one( maybe 2) question Akagi.. Why did the US purchase Alaska and why are we not using the state for the reasons it was purchased?

Personally, I think we should be sending more federal money to Alaska to develop the natural resources. Critics( liberals) of the oil pipeline said it would destroy the natural beauty and wildlife. How did that work out for you?

Would a Harvard Law School Grad
Know about Law?

I think its expected he would.

Here is State Law of Hawaii
http://healthuser.hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-rec ords/hawnbirth.html
Quote from the State of Hawaii:

"The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program was established in 1911, during the territorial era, to register a person born in Hawaii who was one year old or older and whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii. The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth Program was terminated in 1972, during the statehood era.

Certified copies of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth may be requested following the procedures for certified copies of standard birth certificates (see Certified Copies). The eligibility requirements for issuance of a certified copy of a standard birth certificate apply to Certificates of Hawaiian Birth. And the same fees charged for standard birth certificates are charged for Certificates of Hawaiian Birth. Copies of the set of testimony used to establish a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth may also be requested, and an additional fee is charged for each copy of the set of testimony.

Any person to whom a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth has been issued may submit a request to amend an entry, including a legal change of name, on an existing Certificate.

"including a legal change of name, on an existing Certificate"

This is how the Court is avoided, all legal too.

Barry knows the law, he just use's it with cunning, not intelligence, but fraud.



Jax33
Since I haven't seen it, no idea nor do you, but since there is no proof he was born in Kenya, no proof he was living in the US as an alien (legal or not), no proof he entered the US from Kenya, I would say evidence supports a passport issued by the State Department of the United States of America under the name Barack H. Obama II.

Now I suppose in 1967 he could have traveled on a Kenyan passport as he would have been considered a citizen of Kenya as well as of the US, but there is no proof this happened either.

For those of you
Who choose to respond to akagi, let me say this.

He is one of the most warped posters on TH.
A liar with an agenda, and that agenda is hate and criticism of America and its Founding Principles.

This is not a snap judgment, but over two years of reading and debating him, and is why I ignore the liar now.

Waste of time to talk to the fool

Mark Sanford's sin...
Sanford's biggest sin is that he flew off to some remote places to have that stuff that's called sex but is really not sex. Had he hired that Argentine woman as an intern to his Governor's Mansion first, it wouldn't be so bad. At least some loonies will put up bumper stickers like "Nobody died when Sanford lied" (or is it "laid") in his defense.

Barry Soetoro
Has spent upwards of 1 Million Dollars to keep his public records from the public.

Here are the three law firms he has hired.
ALL over a 15 dollar Birth Certificate.

United States District Court of Pennsylvania
Attorney's for Defendant's
Barrack Hussein Obama and
The Democratic National Committee


John P. Lavelle
Attorney ID PA #54279
Ballard Spahr Andrews & Ingersoll, LLP
1735 Market Street, 51st Floor
Philadelphia, PA 19103
(215) 864-8603
(215) 864-9125 Fax
lavellej@ballardsphar.com

Joseph E Sandler, Esq
SANDLER REIFF & YOUNG PC
300 M Street SE Suite 1102
Washington DC 20003
Telephone: (202) 479-1111
Fax: (202) 479-1115
sandler@sandlerreiff.com
http://www.sandlerreiff.com

Robert F. Bauer, Esquire
General Counsel, Obama For America
PERKINS COIE
607 Fourteenth Street N.W.
Washington D.C. 20005-2003
Telephone (202)628-6600
Facsimile (202)432-1690
RBauer@perkinscoie.com
http://www.perkinscoie.com




Akagi
So if a nation acts according to according to their Constitution and in their own interest, yet the rest of the rest opposes it - they must yeild to the wishes of the world.

Okay, I get you are Obama, or at least his clone/drone. You know all the talking points; i.e. defending yourself invites assault. We won the Cold War, yet BHO is "Resetting" it, so the Russians will have another shot at being a world power. Anyhow, I will leave you to your delusions and hope you have an eventual intellectual maturity.


akagi
You have no more proof to disprove my points.In 1981 he said he went to Pakistan.What country issued him a passport?

John
Okay.

From the AP on the Bridge.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26486063/

I never said she had violated any ethics, but she took $4,500 from the same fundraising scheme the got Ted Stevens in hot water. So it was of dubious ethical standing and not all the ethical charges have been dismissed as unfounded which lead some to believe her quiting has to do with a looming ethical bomb about to go off under her--I myself don't go along with that though.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0908/550037.html

The reason for Alaska being purchased had two goals really. One was to reward the Russians for supporting the Union during the war. The Russians had their own problems at the time and needed cash and the Alaska purchase helped them. It was also seen as a possible way to cause discomfort to the British who had aided at least on a cash and carry basis the Confederacy. It was thought that the Alaska purchase could pave the way for the US to acquire some if not all of Canada.

So you think the US should then try to acquire western Canada then? Think those in Alberta would like this idea? The US tried this once and it didn't work out too well, I'd think the US today would have better luck if they invaded Canada. But why would you want it? For the beer maybe? I mean face it Americans make crappy beer, so on that reason alone you might have a valid reason. Rain water left out in a bucket for a few days tastes better than most American beer, so saying they make better beer isn't saying much.



Lets look at Hawaiian State Law
Something a Harvard Law School Grad would understand very well.

The idea of loop holes in law is older than all of us, including Barry Soetoro.

Any cunning person can see the loop holes in these Laws of the State of Hawaii, open for fraud, legal fraud.


http://healthuser.hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-rec ords/hawnbirth.html
"The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program was established in 1911, during the territorial era, to register a person born in Hawaii who was one year old or older and whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii. The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth Program was terminated in 1972, during the statehood era.

ADD the above to this Law of the State of Hawaii.

Hawaiian state law allows children born outside Hawaii get valid Hawaiian birth certificates (S. 338-17.8)

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

Akagi

“Since the US doesn't allow for those to be both Senator and President at the same time, he had to resign didn't he?”

This obtuse reply reminds me of the time you made the absurd argument that the mere sending of a Union ship into South Carolina waters, before Sumter was fired upon, constituted casus belli.

All four politicians knew fully well that they would have to resign from their elected posts before the end of their respective terms when they decided to take the different posts. If Palin is a quitter for leaving before the end of her term in order to take on a different role, so are they. Your attempt to justify your double standard by the inability to serve in more than one post at a time is silly.

I repeat, I have yet to get a reasonable answer to this question.

Poli
No. I say they can say Diu Nie Lo Mo to the world actually. But it is not just Obama that is saying the military acted illegally--Canada, the United Kingdom, the UN, the OAS and basically every country on earth has called on the return of the president.

Not an Obama supporter actually. But not Delusional either and know unlike you that Indonesia is not an Arab state.

Reduction of weapons between the US and the USSR, now Russia has been going on since the early 1970s from SALT I to ABM to SALT II to START I to START II to SORT and on and on.

Since a missle shield in violation of the ABM treaty would just encourage Moscow to keep more weapons on more platforms to overwhem it, having such a system in place in Europe which the Russians see as an American attempt to box them in would actuall decrease European and American security, not increase it.


Way Down
"This obtuse reply reminds me of the time you made the absurd argument that the mere sending of a Union ship into South Carolina waters, before Sumter was fired upon, constituted casus belli."

It was indeed.

Of course they should have taken Major Anderson's advice and simply starved out the Yankees--but being the hot heads they were...

I might add a Maoist-type insurgency would have been better too, they needed more Quantrill's and less people like Lee. A little after their time I suppose.

You can take that defense of Palin as you will, but it makes her look weak (and possibly leaving over a looming ethics bomb) and unable to take the heat such jobs require. I guess she took Truman's advice, but she won't be back in once she has time to cool off I'm afraid.

liberals
Trying to explain something to them is like trying to stick a wet noodle up a wild tigers butt.

Jax33
You ever been outside the US? If so, what country issued you that passport...the US? I've never seen it nor has anyone here at TH.


TS
And he is called Talent Scout because he has none of his own and has this warped habit of posting things out of his deranged mind that he believes are truth such as under Indonesian law, Obama had to be adopted and had to have his name changed and a host of other wild claims.


It's funny --
Why don't conservs go back to focusing on the whole birth certificate scuffle? It's more fun to read about everyone's take on where Obama was born. No one has one iota of proof that he wasn't born in Hawaii, but it's fun to think that he was born in a hut in Kenya, that he changed his name to his stepfather's that Bill Ayers changed his diapers when he was a baby and that his mother was a communist alien from the plant Kjupro!

It's just boring to think that he was born in Hawaii, was a brilliant academic, a huge success at Harvard Law School, was a community organizer, got married, had 2 beautiful daughters and wanted to work in public service for the good of the country. What fun is that??

Nothing like moving on and being the party of the future huh?

Palin's resignation, a courageous move!
There is little discussion of the main reason for Ms. Palin's resignation. The bogus ethics charges leveled against her were too time consuming and cost too much for Alaska. By having resigned, the state can go about its business and spend its money on things other than her defense. I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand. She truly did that which is in the best interests of the State of Alaska. She said this very clearly in her speech. I believe it, and I consider it a courageous decision..

I want them to

They have yet to get on this subject.
It was brought to light by a democrat.

Phil Berg
Life time democrat and important man in the democrat party in Penn.

I wish Conservatives would begin to look into this fraud

El writes:- 4:42 PM EST
It's funny --
Why don't conservs go back to focusing on the whole birth certificate scuffle?

The democrat party
Sent their attack dogs to Alaska to use the willing press for the politics of personal destruction with hate speech.

They inspire really hateful people.
The media will not report all the anti-American hate Obama grew up in from his own mother, grandparents, Ayers or Wright, and his own wife, but they will attack a handicapped child of Sarah Palin.

The press and the democrats are beneath contempt

His name is Barry Soetoro
Until legally changed.

He committed fraud on his Illinois State Bar Application stating he never had another name.

That is an outright lie, and its fraud

I repeat for piano man
His name is Barry Soetoro
Until legally changed.

He committed fraud on his Illinois State Bar Application stating he never had another name.

That is an outright lie, and its fraud


Make me shut up punk

Barack Obama Illinois Bar application
The complaint was mailed to:

Kenneth G. Jablonski, Clerk
Attorney Registration and Disciplinary Commission
One Prudential Plaza, 130 East Randolph Drive, Suite 1100
Chicago, Illinois 60601-6219

RE: Barack Hussein Obama, Esquire
Admitted December 17, 1991
Rec # 358694732

The records from the US postal system indicate the following:

Label/Receipt Number: 7006 2150 0002 2527 0708
Detailed Results:

Delivered, July 23, 2008, 2:32 pm, CHICAGO, IL 60601
Arrival at Unit, July 23, 2008, 9:27 am, CHICAGO, IL 60604
Acceptance, July 18, 2008, 3:31 pm, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VA 22905

From the complaint:

“Synopsis Of Complaint and Recommended Report

NATURE OF THE CASE: a) making a statement of material fact in
connection with a bar application that the applicant knows to be
false; b) committing a criminal act that reflects adversely on the
lawyer’s fitness to practice law; c) engaging in conduct involving
dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation; d) engaging in conduct
prejudicial to the administration of justice; and e) engaging in
conduct which brings the courts or the legal profession into
disrepute.”

To read more about the complaint, visit here:

http://factsfirstok.blogspot.com/


NO PRESS IS INTERESTED.
No response from the State of Illinois.

No man is above the law, yet this punk in the WH is getting a pass with provable fraud

To Be or Not to Be.
Sara was the darling introduced to help a fledgling candidate who did not appeal to the true conservative.
Now that the MSM has taken her apart, makes me wonder if there is any purity left in the U.S. man or woman?
The Democrats are a lost cause anyway and have been for years and what little the Republicans came up with was one Ronald Reagan who was good for the country.
Now that the MSM has all but destroyed her, the Republicans are going to have to search through the whole 50 (57 according to Obama) States and see if there is anyone left in the country with an impeccable resume'.

Plano
I would just leave TS alone. He may just up and quit due to your "abuse."

You know - pull a Palin.

Just one part of the cover-up
And the cover-up of fraud from the democrat party, some republicans and the media who will not expose any of this to the public.'

Actual Bar Complaint can be read here.
http://factsfirstok.blogspot.com/2008/07/actual-bar-complai nt-as-filed.html" target="_blank">http://factsfirstok.blogspot.com/2008/07/actual-bar-complai nt-as-filed.html

Filed July 22, 2008

In re Barak Hussein Obama
Commission No. ___ CH __

Synopsis Of Complaint and Recommended Report

NATURE OF THE CASE: a) making a statement of material fact in
connection with a bar application that the applicant knows to be
false; b) committing a criminal act that reflects adversely on the
lawyer's fitness to practice law; c) engaging in conduct involving
dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation; d) engaging in conduct
prejudicial to the administration of justice; and e) engaging in
conduct which brings the courts or the legal profession into
disrepute.

RULES DISCUSSED: Rules 8.1; Rule 8.4(a)(3); 8.4(a)(4); 8.4(a)(5) of
the Illinois Rules of Professional Conduct and Supreme Court Rule 771

SANCTION: Disbarment

Filed July 22, 2008

BEFORE THE HEARING BOARD

OF THE

ILLINOIS ATTORNEY REGISTRATION

AND

DISCIPLINARY COMMISSION

In the Matter of:

BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA,

Attorney-Respondent,

No. ________.



Commission No. ___ CH _____



EVIDENCE presented from his very own Bar Application

http://factsfirstok.blogspot.com/2008/07/actual-bar-complai nt-as-filed.html" target="_blank">http://factsfirstok.blogspot.com/2008/07/actual-bar-complai nt-as-filed.html

Sarah holds up a fish
And gets charged with ethics violations.

Barry Soetoro commits PROVABLE FRAUD on his Illinois State Bar Application Admitted December 17, 1991
Rec # 358694732 and the corrupt media will not even report it, not the Court take any case that questions any of the issues of fraud the engulf the man Barry Soetoro

Evidence
The Respondent first admitted illegal drug use by disclosing it in his
book, Dreams from My Father. Obama, Barack. Dreams from My Father: A
Story of Race and Inheritance. New York: Three Rivers Press, 1995. In
that book he admitted, "Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow
when you could afford it. Not smack, though." pp. 93–94. The
Respondent knew that his activities were illegal. The drug use
occurred from as early as high school at least until he completed his
bachelors degree in New York City. He entered law school in 1988,
living in and traveling in Somerville and Cambridge. He graduated
from law school in 1991.

In about early 1991, Respondent submitted his application to take the
Illinois bar exam, in which he attested that his answers to the
questions were true and correct. In the Character and Fitness section,
questions 18 and 19 included the following statement:

NOTE. In connection with your answer to questions 18 and 19, you are
advised that no statute, court order, or legal proceeding withholding
adjudication, expunging information from any record, sealing any
record, or purporting to authorize any person to deny the existence of
occurrence of any information or matter shall excuse less than full
disclosure of any information or matter otherwise required to be
disclosed herein. You must answer questions 18 and 19; the attachment
of letters from law enforcement agencies in lieu of an answer is not
acceptable. Information provided in response to one of the two
questions need not be reported in response to the other.

Continued....

Evidence
18. Have you ever, either as an adult or juvenile, been cited,
arrested, accused, formally or informally, or convicted of any
violation of any law other than moving traffic violations.

In response to question 18, it is understood the Respondent answered
"no." The Respondent did not disclose his multiple drug use occurring
through his time in high school and college.

By this time in his life he was very mature and sophisticated person
that he either did or should have given a great deal of consideration
to his response to question 18 a great deal of consideration. He has
not disclosed if he consulted with anyone, such as Illinois attorney
Michelle Robinson(later his wife) before answering the question.

On December 17, 1991, Respondent was admitted to the practice of law
in Illinois. At no time prior to his admission to the Illinois bar,
did Respondent apprise the Illinois Character and Fitness Committee of
his involvement in illegal drug activity. If he had been caught he
likely would have been charged with criminal possession of a
controlled substance in the fifth degree which is a class D felony.
New York Penal Law Sec. 220.06 (McKinney).

The following individuals have personal knowledge of, or access to
documentation of these facts:

William Shaheen, Esquire
Shaheen & Gordon, P.A.
P.O. Box 977
140 Washington Street, 2nd Floor
Dover, NH 03821-0977
(603) 749-1838 fax
(603) 749-5000 phone
wshaheen@shaheengordon.com

http://factsfirstok.blogspot.com/2008/07/actual-bar-complai nt-as-filed.html

Wake up and smell the stench of fraud, America

akagi
You are wrong.In 1981 Pakistan was on the no travel list which means he could not have used a U.S. passport

Obama a liar, even parking tickets
He lies about, ethics? Yes, the ethics a punk, a street thug and gang member, not an honorable man.

Obama received 17 parking tickets in Cambridge between 1988 and 1991, according to the city's Traffic, Parking & Transportation Department.

Of those tickets, he paid only two while he was a student and paid them late, said Susan Clippinger, the office's director.

In January, about when the Globe began asking local officials about Obama's time at Harvard, including any violations of local laws, someone representing the senator called the parking office to inquire about the decades-old tickets.

On Jan. 26, the remaining $375 in fines and fees were paid by credit card using the city's website, Clippinger said. She said she didn't know who paid them.

Barack Obama is a member of the state bar of Illinois, and was admitted in December 1991. The application to the bar requires aspiring lawyers to disclose just about any run-in with the law on both the "Character and Fitness Questionnaire" and the "Illinois State Police Form."

For example, Question 33 of the State Police Form is, "Do you have outstanding parking violations?"

And then there's Question 35: "Do you understand that after this Additional Questionnaire is filed, you will have a continuing reporting obligation to notify the Board of Admissions of any changes or additions to the information provided in your application?

An ethical person would admit parking tickets for crying out loud, hardly a felony.

But this punk in the WH lied about this on his Bar Application.

But the people who support this punk question Sarah and the press trumps it up as loud as they can.

Wake up and smell the fraud and the corruption America

jax33
You are 100 percent correct about Pakistan being a country the US State Department would not approve travel to by American Citizens.

THEY STILL DON'T TIL THIS VERY DAY.

Here, all can read it themselves

quote US State Department advisory:

Travel Warning
United States Department of State
Bureau of Consular Affairs

September 10, 2008

This Travel Warning provides updated information on the security situation in Afghanistan. The security threat to all American citizens in Afghanistan remains critical. This Travel Warning supersedes the Travel Warning for Afghanistan issued February 6, 2008.

The Department of State continues to strongly warn U.S. citizens against travel to Afghanistan. No part of Afghanistan should be considered immune from violence, and the potential exists throughout the country for hostile acts, either targeted or random, against American and other Western nationals at any time. Remnants of the former Taliban regime and the terrorist al-Qa’ida network, and other groups hostile to NATO-led military operations remain active. There is an on-going threat to kidnap and assassinate U.S. citizens and Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) workers throughout the country. Afghan authorities have a limited ability to maintain order and ensure the security of citizens and visitors. Travel in all areas of Afghanistan is unsafe due to military operations, landmines, banditry, armed rivalry among political and tribal groups, and the possibility of terrorist attacks, including attacks using vehicular or other improvised explosive devices (IEDs). The security environment remains volatile and unpredictable.

...more...
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_2121.html

US State Department, Pakistan
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_2121.html

The Department of State remains concerned about the continued threat of terrorist attacks, demonstrations, and other violent actions against U.S. citizens and interests overseas. Americans are reminded that demonstrations and rioting can occur with little or no warning. Current information suggests that al-Qaida and affiliated organizations continue to plan terrorist attacks against U.S. interests in multiple regions, ..


Both countries are under advisory

Travel Warning
United States Department of State
Bureau of Consular Affairs
Washington, DC 20520

This information is current as of today, Thu Jul 09 2009 16:12:37 GMT-0600 (Mountain Daylight Time).

PAKISTAN

June 12, 2009

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens against non-essential travel to Pakistan in light of the threat of terrorist activity. This replaces the Travel Warning dated February 25, 2009, updates information on security incidents and reminds U.S. citizens of ongoing security concerns in Pakistan


http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_930.html

In 1981 Pakistan was under Martial Law
No American Citizen on un-offical travel could possibly have obtained an American Passport to fly there directly from here.

Barry Soetoro held Indonesian Citizenship and an Indonesian Passport.

This is what he used to travel to Pakistan in 1981 via Jakarta Indonesia, and is why he will not release his Passport Records tot he Public, to whom they now belong as a Public servant

Jax 33
"You are wrong.In 1981 Pakistan was on the no travel list which means he could not have used a U.S. passport"

No, you are dead wrong. Love this part.

Taking things at face value from WND unsourced is very dangerous.

Here are your links...read them and weep.

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/14/travel/lahore-a-survivor- with-a-bittersweet-history.html?scp=1&sq=lahore%20travel%20 1981&st=cse

So if there was a travel ban, why did the NY Times do a travel bit on going to Lahore in 1981?

Why did the American Consul Gemeral in Lahore write a letter to the editor a few months later in 1981 warning American tourists they could get a Pakistani visa at the Wagah border crossing from India good for 30 days but could not get an Indian visa going in the opposite direction and that these were only issued at airports so make sure they had an Indian visa in their passport as some Americans had been stranded in Pakistan due to this. He also pointed out that the visas were good for 30-days and could not be extended. Was John S. Brims and the NY Times travel section part of this conspiracy too when Obama was 20?

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/08/23/travel/l-lahore-243000.ht ml?sec=&spon=&scp=3&sq=lahore%20travel%201981&st=cse

Because Americans could travel to Pakistan, that's why.

Any other uncited WND claims you'd like me to blow out of the sky? And to quote Lighting McQueen, Ka-Chow!








Enough Already!
You claim his name is really Barry Soetoro-- yet there are no documents that exist with that name on it. Aha! This is proof that he never changed his name! Didn't have to-- he was born Barack Obama. Despite this, the lawsuits being filed against him all name him as Barack Obama. Gee, no wonder they won't hear them if you're using the wrong name.

You claim some passport flummery because of a trip to Pakistan in 1981 when it was on a 'no go' list. I've been to Cuba several times on church business, and Cuba was and is strictly illegal unless you have legitimate business and spend no money while you're there. Every time when I returned, I went through customs and immigration no problem-- with my American passport.

Some of you claim he can't be a native born American citizen regardless of where he was born because his father was a British or Kenyan citizen. Absolutely false. This one doesn't even make sense.

Believe me when I say that nothing would give me more pleasure than to learn that Obama was not legally entitled to be president. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THIS. If you believe it, fine-- lawyer up and go get the evidence. In the mean time, you are being very destructive to the conservative cause by making all of us look like conspiracy buffs. You can believe anything you want. Until you can produce verifiable facts, you are whistling up a stump and making leftist trolls very, very happy.

Akagi
Thanks for the info on Pakistan not being on the no-go list. I left that charge alone since I didn't know whether it was true or not, but was very suspicious of it, since I know people who have returned to visit relatives in Pakistan during that time.

This whole 'conspiracy' has reached the level that to the true believers the lack of evidence has become the clearest sign that the conspiracy is real. That's moonbat territory.

A Travel Advisory?
Friends, a travel advisory is not a ban. Cuba and North Korea were banned-- plenty of countries that Americans travel to all the time are under a travel advisory. The very claim that Americans wouldn't be issued a passport or be 'allowed' to travel to Pakistan because it was under a travel advisory is totally false, and undermines the rest of your argument.

Here's the current list of countries under a travel advisory Iran 07/01/2009
Sri Lanka 06/26/2009
Yemen 06/26/2009
Saudi Arabia 06/26/2009
Uzbekistan 06/16/2009
Iraq 06/15/2009
Pakistan 06/12/2009
Mali 06/02/2009
Chad 06/02/2009
Nepal 05/22/2009
Lebanon 05/13/2009
Georgia 04/09/2009
Sudan 04/08/2009
Central African Republic 04/01/2009
Colombia 03/25/2009
Algeria 03/04/2009
Eritrea 02/18/2009
Syria 02/12/2009
Congo, Democratic Republic of the 02/05/2009
Haiti 01/28/2009
Philippines 01/27/2009
Israel, the West Bank and Gaza 01/15/2009
Burundi 01/08/2009
Cote d'Ivoire 12/15/2008
Nigeria 12/02/2008
Somalia 11/15/2008
Kenya 11/14/2008
Afghanistan 09/10/2008

You will note that several of them are popular tourist destinations.

TS and Jax33
"You are 100 percent correct about Pakistan being a country the US State Department would not approve travel to by American Citizens."

Total BS.

Also a travel advisory is not the same as a travel ban for you two rocket scientists information. Back in the 1990s, I was in AIT (in Taipei, but maybe Kaohsiung, not sure of the exact office) and there was a travel warning on Vietnam. Saying as the US has no relations with Vietnam it advises US citizens not to travel to Vietnam. Several Americans had been arrested and since the US had no relations with the country, even unofficial ones, it could not do anything for them. While the Swiss Embassy served as the official representative in lieu of US relations, no other country could speak for the US government. In short, if you got in trouble there as an American, you were on your own, so best not go.

The Department of State sends out these warnings all the time on countries all over the world...not the same as saying you can't go.

Let's pick one shall we, it says I should think twice before going to Israel. And I shouldn't even think once about going to Gaza.

But I could go to Gaza if I felt like it, assuming I can get the Israelis to let me in--just ask Cynthia McKinney about that one.


Travel advisories are not a ban
Of course not, Mexico has earned many of them but never banned.

Pakistan in 1981 was a different matter.

Pakistan was under Martial Law.

They banned travel and the US State Department went along with it due to the killing of some Americans in Pakistan.

No American could have obtained a Visa to travel to Pakistan in 1981, they were under Martial Law.

quote:
General Mohammad Zia ul-Haq, chief of the army staff (COAS), took control of Pakistan by proclaiming martial law, beginning the longest period of rule by a single leader in Pakistan's history. It ended only with his death in a still-unexplained aircraft crash on August 17, 1988

http://countrystudies.us/pakistan/21.htm


TS
"No American Citizen on un-offical travel could possibly have obtained an American Passport to fly there directly from here."

Really? So why did the NY Times do a travel piece on Lahore and why did the American consul general write a letter to the editor explaining the visa requirements?

Taiwan was under martial law from 1948 (when the ROC was still on the mainland) until 1987, Americans were free to fly to Taiwan. Not sure if Pakistan was under martial law in 1981, but it doesn't matter. As I said, if the Israelis would let me in I could go to Gaza tonight.

"Barry Soetoro held Indonesian Citizenship and an Indonesian Passport."

Proof would be nice.

"This is what he used to travel to Pakistan in 1981 via Jakarta Indonesia,..."

Proof please.


TS
"No American could have obtained a Visa to travel to Pakistan in 1981, they were under Martial Law."

So we can believe you TS a total nobody. Or we can beleive the NY Times travel section and the American consul general in Lahore (that is in Pakistan in case you didn't know).

I'm going with the US consul general.

Americans are killed all over the place. You could have gone to China on 6-4-1989 and risk getting the PLA running you over with a tank, assuming you could get inside the country. The US woouldn't have stopped you, China might have though.


When a country
Is under Martial Law, they control who enters and leaves that nation.

No one else.

No America was eligible for a Visa from the Pakistan Government in 1981.

Indonesians were due to them being muslims for the vast majority, as Obama was from his first entry into Indonesias School System and application shows his own family filed in this school.

Fransiskus Assisi School, Jakarta Indonesia

Who Denied the Visa?
"They banned travel and the US State Department went along with it due to the killing of some Americans in Pakistan.

No American could have obtained a Visa to travel to Pakistan in 1981, they were under Martial Law."

I'm just curious. WHO wouldn't have issued a visa for an American to go to Pakistan? Since I know at least two Americans who did to visit relatives, I don't believe your information is correct. I've already told you how I went to a country that was banned for American travel legally. I also went to three countries in Africa when they were on a travel advisory, and had no problem whatsoever getting a passport. So who is it that is denying this visa?

TS
"No America was eligible for a Visa from the Pakistan Government in 1981.

Indonesians were due to them being muslims for the vast majority, as Obama was from his first entry into Indonesias School System and application shows his own family filed in this school.

Fransiskus Assisi School, Jakarta Indonesia"

So why did the NYT and the US consul general say they were...again who shall we believe the US consul general or you? Again, I'm going with the US consul general, not you.

Taiwan was under martial law for 39 years and Americans still got visas.

Fransiskus Assisi School is a private Catholic school in case you were curious.

Violence against Americans
Pakistan's first elections under civilian rule took place in March 1977, and the overwhelming victory of Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party (PPP) was denounced as fraudulent. A rising tide of violent protest and political deadlock led to a military takeover on July 5 by Gen. Mohammed Zia ul-Haq. Bhutto was tried and convicted for the 1974 murder of a political opponent, and despite worldwide protests he was executed on April 4, 1979, touching off riots by his supporters. Zia declared himself president on Sept. 16, 1978, and ruled by martial law until Dec. 30, 1985

During this time the American Embassy was closed and American Diplomats all left Pakistan.

With no American Embassy there, NO AMERICAN COULD HAVE TRAVELED THERE. stupid

In April 1979, the United States cut off economic assistance to Pakistan.


Several incidents of violence against American officials and U.S. mission employees in Pakistan have marred the relationship. In November 1979, false rumors that the United States had participated in the seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca provoked a mob attack on the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad in which the chancery was set on fire resulting in the loss of life of American and Pakistani staff.

Talent Scout
'No America (sic) was eligible for a Visa from the Pakistan Government in 1981."

Then why did they issue so many? Why did the NY Times to a travel piece on Pakistan if you couldn't go there? Who issued me my visas for travel to Mozambique, Rhodesia, Guatemala, and Angola when they were under travel advisories, and why? How did I legally go to Cuba, a country that was under a travel ban?

talent scout
"With no American Embassy there, NO AMERICAN COULD HAVE TRAVELED THERE. stupid" Yet I traveled to Cuba, which has no American embassy and was under a travel ban. Now how did I do that?

TS
There is also a State Department circular you can read too that has Pakistani visa requirements for Americans.

http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/travel/cis/southasia/TA_Pakis tan1981.pdf

So we can believe the NY Times, the consul general in Lahore and the US State Department or you. Who do you think we should go with?

Please show us ****PROOF****!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that travel to Pakistan was banned by the US OR Pakistan didn't Americans into Pakistan.

I think it is about time for your "shut up immigrant" line now don't you think?


TS
With no embassy there? Then why was there a consulate in Lahore. You are looking dumber by the minute.

There was no embassy in Vietnam either in the early 1990s, yet Americans still went there as I pointed out (against the advice of the US government I might add). Taiwan (ROC) hasn't had an American embassy there since 1979--yes there is AIT, okay, granted.


Embassy Burning in Islamabad
1979

In 1979, Pakistani students, enraged by a radio report claiming that the United States had bombed the Masjid al-Haram, Islam's holy site at Mecca, stormed the U.S. embassy in Islamabad, and burned it to the ground.

In April 1979, the United States cut off economic assistance to Pakistan, except food assistance, as required under the Symington Amendment to the U.S. Foreign Assistance Act of 1961
There was no US Embassy in Pakistan in 1981.

It was not rebuilt until Zia and Martial Law was removed.


The New York Times published an article titled “Troops Rescue 100 in Islamabad; U.S. Offices Are Burned in 2 Cities”. The article mentions Jody Powell, the White House press secretary at that time who said that the administration appreciates action taken by the Pakistani forces in bringing about the dramatic escape of the 100 people besieged for five hours in the embassy chancery.


======================

The real question is why did Barry go to Pakistan in the first place.

Will the press ask him?
ha ha

I do not bother
Arguing with stupid immigrants like akagi.

Its beneath common sense to waste time with the fool

Look at the wacko's
One is here bragging about travel to Cuba in spite of a travel ban.

I never said people could not ignore the law, they do, and Obama is just one of them.

Dope using punk and a criminal yet to be prosecuted for all the fraud he is committing.

But a mother, a wife and a decent lady is who they want prosecuted.

I despise you hypocrites who support this criminal in the WH

TS
"During this time the American Embassy was closed and American Diplomats all left Pakistan."

That's odd. Then why was there a US consul general sending letters to the NY Times from Lahore then?

TS, when you are in a hole, the first rule is to stop digging. Pretty soon you are going to be hearing things like "wah..kanyikan neige da xue!" "Ni Hao!" "Ni shi meiguoren ma?"




TS
It is NOT illegal to go to Cuba, you just have to have a valid reason to go and there are spending limits on how much you can spend.

Robert went to Cuba legally...as he said.

Why not go to Pakistan? Is there something wrong with going to Pakistan?

Stupid and an immigrant I may be (and I may be not) and a fool as well, but I know that travel to Pakistan was not banned in 1981 nor were there no US diplomats in Pakistan at the time.


The American Embassy
As I showed had been burnt down to the ground.

For the idiots like akagi, this means it was destroyed.
Gone, non-existent fool.

It does not mean there were no Americans in Pakistan after it was burnt down you stupid immigrant fool.

There may have been diplomats and members of the press staying in safe areas of Pakistan. stupid.

No American citizens would have wanted to go top that hell hole in 1981 if he was not friends with those muslims, you immigrant fool



talent scout
" Look at the wacko's One is here bragging about travel to Cuba in spite of a travel ban.

I never said people could not ignore the law, they do, and Obama is just one of them." What law, scout? You quote no law, nor cite any regulation.

Good move, scout. When you've lost the argument, change the subject. I never broke law one on my three trips to Cuba. I was invited there by the Iglesia Metodista de Cuba which paid all my in-country expenses. I legally came through immigration each time, and the flights all originated in Miami International Airport. This was to a banned country, not a travel advisory country. I did the same thing when I traveled to countries under a travel advisory, and it was all completely legal and done with an American passport, as have many thousands of Americans. In short, all your arguments about no American being allowed to go there and no visas would be issued have been proven to be utterly false. If you can't admit that, you're not helping your case.

Same for Pakistan in 1981
June 26, 2009

COUNTRY DESCRIPTION: Cuba map Cuba map Cuba is a totalitarian police state which relies on repressive methods to maintain control. These methods, including intense physical and electronic surveillance of Cubans, are also extended to foreign travelers. Americans visiting Cuba should be aware that any encounter with a Cuban could be subject to surreptitious scrutiny by the Castro regime's secret police, the General Directorate for State Security (DGSE). Also, any interactions with average Cubans, regardless of how well intentioned the American may be, can subject that Cuban to harassment and/or detention, and other forms of repressive actions, by state security elements. The regime is strongly anti-American, yet desperate for U.S. dollars to prop itself up. The United States does not have full diplomatic relations with Cuba, but provides consular and other services through the U.S. Interests Section in Havana. The U.S. Interests Section operates under the legal protection of the Swiss government but is not co-located with the Swiss Embassy. Read the Department of State Background Notes on Cuba for additional information.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

talent scout
"No American citizens would have wanted to go top that hell hole in 1981 if he was not friends with those muslims, you immigrant fool" Yet there was still an American Consul. You've changed your whole story, or didn't you notice? Formerly, you said no Americans COULD go there, no way, nobody, nuhuh. Now it's no American citizens would want to go there. There's no American embassy in Cuba, either, since 1961, and thousands of Americans have been there legally as well, and a few illegally.

Your arguments would be more convincing if they stayed solid.

TS
"With no American Embassy there, NO AMERICAN COULD HAVE TRAVELED THERE. stupid."

Why? Vietnam didn't have one and Americans still traveled there (dispite the US Government advice not to), the Solomon Islands do not have one, the US ambassador is in residence in New Guinea, Somalia doesn't have one, nor does Gaza...both very dangerous places, but I could go if I so desired.

Back in 2006, I had the chance to visit the DPRK, the US has never had relations with that country.

US relations with a country has little to do with your ability to visit it.

Why Travel Warning's?
A Travel Warning is issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff.

Pakistan in 1981 fits the qualification more than Cuba ever has

PALIN LOOKS SMART COMPARED TO...
Yes, you got it! Mr. Ensign. Interesting that there's not one story on this site about the $100,000 in hush money Ensign's parents paid to his mistress. No party is immune to sex scandals, as we all know, but jeez, Republicans, slow down and give us a chance to catch up!

TALENT SCOUT
Are you Native American? If not, shut up about the 'immigrant' thing. Almost ALL of us, or our parents or grandparents, are immigrants in this country. If you are Native American, I would think you'd be a bit more centered than you appear to be. So, I guess, either way, shut up about the immigrant thing.

Lets try some basic logic.
(for the honest people out there, forget the immigrant lying fool akagi)

Martial law, Civil Unrest, Embassy attacked, loss of life in 1981 Pakistan.

Lets ask Obama why he went there, and why he will not show his Passport.

The US Department of State is updated just like anyone else updates their information.

There is no way for anyone to find what you ask for , for 1981 and you should know that.

Lets say there was no restrictions and that could be right, although appears to be irresponsible.

Why did Obama go to Pakistan in the midst of civil war and martial law?

What PP did he go there on?
Why won't he release his Passport?

ASK the man with the answers and if he will not give them, why not.

balanced
Shut up

ASK the LIAR OBAMA
Why is he hiding ALL HIS RECORDS

I am Native American by blood and birth, and knowledge.


Wrong again, scout
"A Travel Warning is issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a draw-down of its staff." That's a little part of the many reasons why a country may be put on travel advisory. It doesn't even apply to most of the countries on the current list. The most common reasons are civil war, plagues, or civil unrest, not the staffing of the American embassy.

What you're avoiding admitting is that your whole argument about the Indonesian passport and the trip to Pakistan rests on an assumption that Akagi and I have proven to be false-- not alleged, proven. Obama could indeed have traveled to Pakistan on an American passport, as many did. So your argument about the phantom passport is not only unproved, all the reasons you claim it exists are false. That's false, as in untrue.

TS
You said all diplomats left and yet there was a consulate general was still operating and as the consul general pointed out, Americans were indeed traveling to Pakistan and he wished more would come. And thus he explained the requirements. So the claims of "no Americans could go to Pakistan" is totally false and proven to be false.

There was no travel ban on Pakistan in 1981. The Embassy was burnt in 1979, BUT the US maintained an ambassador to Pakistan. In 1981, that would have been Arthur W. Hummel, Jr followed by Robert I. Spiers. So you sayting from 1979 until he left in 1981, Hummel (who is dead and good riddance by the way) was not in Pakistan. Like to prove this point. How about Spiers? He presented his credentials in October of 1981, how did he do that...by email?


scout
" ASK the LIAR OBAMA
Why is he hiding ALL HIS RECORDS "

I'm asking you why you won't admit that all your assumptions about Americans not being allowed to go to Pakistan and not being able to get a visa are false, as is the alleged need to have a foreign passport of some description. We've proved this to be absolutely untrue, and you won't accept it. You've changed your tune, and are now talking about the wisdom of going there. Why can't you deal with the serious errors in facts you originally made on this thread?

AKAGI
When you get mad you tend to pontificate, very boring makes for dull reading........Cheers

Not to mention the BC and School record
With Pakistan under Martial Law, the US Embassy under Attack and potential attack, with loss of life, it wouldn't make sense for the US Department of State to allow American Citizens to go there,at that time.

But lets says there was no restrictions and Americans were not warned or told not to go.
(unimaginable but these fools do imagine such a scene)


Why does Obama still hide his Passport?

Why is was he still an Indonesian Citizen in 1980?

This information comes from his mothers divorce papers when she filed against Lolo Soetoro in 1980.

Barry Soetoro was named as a Dependent of an Indonesian Government Official, Lolo Soetoro.

Look for yourself:

http://decalogosintl.org/documents/Soetoro_Divorce.pdf


Barry was still an Indonesian Citizen at that time being a dependent of Lolo Soetoro.

This is why I believe he went to Indonesia first and then traveled to Pakistan using his Indonesian Passport which would have showed him as a Muslim.

Christians, Jews and Hindus were not welcome in the Islamic State of Pakistan in 1981.
Not now, not then, and especially when they were under martial law at that time.

Think about it, and you will know why Barry Soetoro aka Barack Obama will NOT RELEASE HIS AMERICAN PASSPORT

Who wanted to go to Pakistan?
In 1981 when that country was ripped apart by Civil War and under Martial Law?

No American student had any reason to want to go there right after the American Embassy has been burnt to the ground, and Americans targeted for violence.

No one but a fool and a liar will try and over come such obstacles for traveling there in 1981 as the muslim loving Barry Soetoro did.

No one but a muslim lover would ever bow to the worst human rights violater on planet earth in this day as he did to the Saudi king.

Everything about this man shows fraud.

And his supporters prove themselves morons

TS
"Martial law, Civil Unrest, Embassy attacked, loss of life in 1981 Pakistan."

Nope. That was in 1979 a few weeks before the embassy in Tehran was attacked.

"There is no way for anyone to find what you ask for , for 1981 and you should know that."

Untrue. I've posted a travel article from the NY Times, a letter to the editor from the US consul general in Lahore from 1981 and the