Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Thursday, February 19, 2009
Ross Mackenzie :: Townhall.com Columnist
The High Cost of the Stimulus
by Ross Mackenzie
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


On precisely the day Barack Obama signed into law the most gargantuan economic measure in the nation's peacetime history (White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel termed it "the most major, sweeping, comprehensive legislation as it relates to economic activity ever") -- at almost precisely the moment of his pen-strokes -- the stock market's hope balloon went "bang!"

The Dow fell to its bear-market low. In a cascade of awful economic news, the market had struggled to hold on. But the signs weren't good. It fell on the day of the inauguration of a man who had campaigned as the embodiment of an idea called hope. It fell on the day his tax-challenged treasury secretary rolled out his salvational plan. Then, at the signing, it fell again. Said The Wall Street Journal Wednesday, with gold pushing toward its all-time high (up 9 percent this year, with the Dow down 14 percent): "The rising gold price says investors are starting to freak out over governments' response to the credit crunch."

The market is testifying to the difficulty of keeping hope alive. And to borrow the understatement Apollo XIII astronaut Jim Lovell gave the language, "Houston, we have a problem."

Again on the day of the signing, these things also happened:

-- Chrysler and General Motors begged for $21 billion in additional taxpayer dollars to keep from going toes-up.

-- Word came that Lloyds of London may follow G.M., et al., down bankruptcy's road.

-- China, the holder of $900 billion in U.S. Treasury bills alone, bought in big time to one of the world's premier gold-mining companies.

-- Roland Burris -- the joke now occupying Obama's seat in the joke called the Senate -- insisted in the face of calls for his resignation that he did not misspeak to investigators about his communications with Illinois' (former) joke of a governor.

-- Hugo Chavez won a referendum effectively crowning him tin-pot dictator for life in Venezuela, one of our major sources of imported oil.

-- Pakistan conceded the inevitable and sanctioned Sharia law in the country's jihadist-held Swat Valley.

-- Kansas halted taxpayer refunds because it is out of cash, and California continued giving refunds in the form of IOUs.

-- After a very public display of drunken incoherence at a meeting of the world's leading economies, Japan's finance minister resigned.

-- It was revealed that following passage of the 600-page stimulus bill, wherein Congress restricted private-sector executive pay, Congress acquiesced to its own annual pay raise. Shameless members of Congress from both parties then prepped for junkets to exotic locales here and abroad to -- you know -- fact-find and confer.

And that's just a partial listing. Houston, we have a problem that is huge, vast and broadly economic but not exclusively so. These days, we hear hardly a word about terror and what the administration just ended called The Long War.

For an economy in freefall or meltdown or whatever, Obama our secular savior -- in concert with the Democratic congressional elite -- has advanced a stimulus package larger than any single element of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal. In doing so, they evidently are following the advice of progressive Princeton economist (and New York Times columnist) Paul Krugman, who believes FDR's policies didn't end the Great Depression but extended it until the onset of World War II because FDR didn't spend enough.

Obama shares FDR's impulse that throwing federal money at a depression is the way to tame it. Yet spending rarely works. Tax-cutting usually does -- as Presidents Kennedy, Johnson, Reagan (three times), and Bush II demonstrated. Obama does not share their belief in the virtue of cutting taxes to strengthen the economy. Nor does he share, notably, Reagan's abiding optimism. Talking grimly about imminent catastrophe, Obama sounds more like Dr. Doom.

The problem we have is this.

Americans in the past 12 months have lost $13 trillion in the stock and housing markets. Their debt burden includes $2.6 trillion owed on vehicles and credit cards and $10 trillion owed on home mortgages. Most of these good people have no confidence in the economy. Most have done nothing wrong except to buy into the federally promoted debt culture for things they couldn't afford and didn't need -- a culture wherein the federal government now proposes to bail them out with money it doesn't have either. The government can manufacture such money only through devices that will inflate the dollar -- thus diminishing its value down the road, along with the value of dollar-denominated nest-eggs.

In the first month of his administration, Barack Obama has exhausted nearly all his bipartisan goodwill largely on social programs long coveted by heavy-breathing leftists -- programs that will cut few substantive taxes and create few durable jobs. Perhaps he has taken a leaf from the notebook of Stuart Chase -- a New Dealer who wrote upon his return from a trip to the Soviet Union: "Why should Russia have all the fun remaking a world?" Yet the fun and havoc of change come at high costs in broken lives and broken balloons of hope.

Oh, and we've hardly mentioned (or heard Obama mention) islamofascist terror -- and its relentless, insidious, ambitions on the West.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Ross Mackenzie lives with his wife and Labrador retriever in the woods west of Richmond, Virginia. They have two grown sons, both Naval officers.

Be the first to read Ross Mackenzie's column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com delivered each morning to your inbox.

Stimulus bill
It would be a great comedy.........if the consequences weren't real. read it at, http://stopthepresses2.blogspot.com/search/label/The%20thr ee%20Stooges

More dishonesty

It's easy to understand why Republicans feel threatening by Obama, but the dishonesty of their economic arguments is astounding.

Mackenzie ignores the fact that the "stimulus" consists of 40% tax cuts in addition to 60% spending.

He claims that "spending rarely works" when in reality it worked well for the Great Depression (read Krugman and others).

He claims that "tax-cutting usually does [work]", when in reality tax cuts favoring the rich helped cause this current recession. (To claim that tax cuts worked for Bush II is ridiculous).

People: Try reading legitimate economists rather than this dishonest propaganda you're being fed on Townhall. Same with Fox News.

Reality exists.

The Lie That's Killing Us All
Until the right debunks the following democratic party lie, they will always be considered cold and heartless instead of reasonable and practical. Here is the lie:

40 million Americans live below the poverty level!

The truth is that anyone who makes less than $36,000 is living below the poverty level. One in every nine Americans. That's 130,000 people living in Austin are living in poverty. Where are they?

Per this lie, if a child earns less than $36,000, he must be living in poverty. A couple makes $70,000 together, they are living in poverty. A high school graduate who only makes $35,000, lives with four roommates, has a new car and new television and eats out every night, is living in poverty.

THis lie should be exposed daily (and nightly) on every right wing talk show in America, until everyone who hears it knows that they are being lied to and lied to and lied to. Then we can get on about the work of fixing the damage that the Democrats have done in order to enrich themselves.

Dr Douglas
You are a stupid moron. Nothing you managed to blurt out is true in any way. Only 1 third is tax cuts. And calling that tax cuts is questionable, because a great deal of that money goes to people who don't work. And the housing collapse caused this tax cuts did not idiot. And Krugman is about as useless as you are. Just go away. What I hate about liberals the most is the fact that they lie all the time. And they make arguments on facts that can not be backed up in any way, because of course they are just so much smarter than everyone else. And calling yourself doctor is the biggest joke of all. Go back to your play room and talk to yourself. Idiots like you we do not need. And the biggest thing that caused this recession is people like you.

To Nick in Austin, Reply #2
There is indeed a lie around here, and it's yours if you say that "anyone who makes less than $36,000 is living below the poverty level". If you google "poverty level" you will see the 2009 poverty level incomes as established by the Department of Agriculture. Poverty level is established not only by amount of income but by size of household. To be at the poverty level at $36,000 (your figure) a household would have to have, statistically, between 7 and 8 members living on that income ($33,270 for a family of 7, $37,010 for a family of 8). That's a lot of people to feed, clothe, and shelter on that amount of money. Let's try a more reasonable-size family, four people. Poverty level income for four is $22,050. Your couple living in poverty would not have an income of $70,000 but $14,570. Your single high school graduate? A single individual at the poverty level makes no more than $10,830, and his roommates could be Bill Gates and Bernie Madoff---their incomes would not signify since they are unrelated adults.

Let me point out that, if you do the math (do you know how? I'll help you if you like) a person can work full-time for minimum wage and still be below poverty level.



Dr. D.
Having been reading TH for awhile, I can't decide if you are really a liberal or just somebody who likes to stir the pot and watch what happens. Either way I think you had better be careful.

I used to work with a MD who grew up in Chinia during the revolution, she told me their biggest mistake was they got rid of all the smart people and had nobody who knew what they were doing. They had to leave medical school and help with the food harvest. I have also heard much the same thing from people who have lived under the type of government you seem to like. Why did they leave there and come to America? Think about it.

Reality does exist, let us know when you find it.

What kind of economics is this?
The Obama administration claimed to be ending the failed policies of the past.

What do you call having the government invest money into major banks like Citi and Bof A, or car companies like General Motors or Investing in new technologies?

Since we are breaking with the past let's not call it trickle down economics. We might try something like trickle down dependence.

Could have had ten grand
Had the government handed out tax relief. Every tax payer could have had over ten thousand dollars.

Sorry this only included people who ACTUALLY paid taxes.

Yes we may have paid off our Citi Mastercard debt and yes they tell me that would not have been a stimulus to the economy but why is paying Citi's debt a stimulus?

DOUGIE
THE REASON YOU THINK TAX CUTS DON'T WORK IS BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY DON'T PAY ANY. YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A LEECH!

Roping in Obama
The only way to control the albatross sitting in our oval office is to strike,,,nationwide,,,for a week. The loss of tax dollars will bring barry down with a thud. We the people employ the idiots in DC,,,,so, let's let them know who the boss is. Every business is this country needs to shut down for a week or two,,,,that will do the trick.

Alice In O's Utopia
Gordon Gekko would be laughing his arse off or crying.

Sure, Wall St. has been greedy, but everybody else has shared in the greed-fest. Be honest: How many of you have racked up debt?

Now, we have:

Oh, I need my mortgage paid off, my gas tank filled, a new bathroom, a new job because I've been employed at McDonald's for 4 1/2 years ... I need. I want. I have to have. Isn't this GREED?

"GREED IS GOOD" (as long as one remembers that the love of money is based upon LOVE, not money).

Since I have read Atlas Shrugged several times, I am off to Alice in Wonderland.... or, maybe, Alice in Obama's Utopia. Oh, and I am joining the 97%, who pay their mortgages, so I can join the 3% that do not.

Dr Dipstick
The max tax cut for anyone is $120/month. Now I don't know about anyone else, but that is not alot of money. The sad thing is most of it going to people who don't even pay taxes.
Kirk

By the way, Lily
Anyone making $6 an hour is making $12k per year. So even they are excluded from living in poverty, per your figures. So where are the 40 million living in poverty? Its a lie. It is a lie.

Re: Emotional Economics
"He claims that 'spending rarely works' when in reality it worked well for the Great Depression (read Krugman and others)."

Only an idiot would get their economic facts from someone who advised the management of Enron on their business plan.

The fact is that most of todays unemployment is the effect of raising the minimum wage that year. Check the numbers, the after Congress raised the "minimum wage" unemployment began to grow. As for spending our way out of a recession the real "zero sum game" in economics is government spending. All government spending is a drag on the economy because it must be "paid for" someway - either higher government borrowing (making credit less available for the real engines of economic growth in the private sector); higher taxes (effecting both the capital available for private investment and also reducing the consumer liquidity); by the Federal Reserve printing trillions more of worthless script joking called the US Dollar; or a combination of all three. The bottom line is that spending by the most inefficient sector, government, can never truly stimulate economic growth.

stimulus, bailout whatever
It should be called "Putting our great great grandchildren up for collateral" package. That is if we still are a country at that point.

When Uncle Sam prints money, they need to back it with something. That something is labor, taxes on labor, businesses and property. Namely us and our future us.

Guess what? People who don't work, don't pay taxes. People who don't own property, don't pay taxes. For the nonproducer, there is no skin missing off their back if govt keeps stimulating and bailing and printing. The skin comes off the producers back, though not without some protest.

Obama promised to redistribute wealth
If the central government has no wealth and creates no wealth. And an economy has a limited and set amount of capital. If the central draws wealth out of the national economy that capital is no longer available to the national economy. The $800 billion democrat pork package takes capital/wealth out of the national economy and democrats politicians decide where to redistribute other peoples wealth. This wealth redistribution helps certain, limited aspects of the national economy favored by democrats. But, it also retards the majority of the national economy because the central government has taken a large chunk of captial out of it.

For example, if a person earns $2000 per week and gives the government $450 in taxes this brings in tax revenues to the government. The government spends the revenues that somewhat helps certain areas of the economy. However, the economy does not expand because the government produces nothing that creates wealth. The economy of those industries that service the government, democrat lobbyist and other political industries, experience the stimulated growth and expansion, experiencing the majority of the "redistribution of wealth."

If a person earns $2000 per week and gives the government $200 in taxes this lowers what the government brings in as revenues. But, the citizen, the individual takes home an extra $1000 per month, each month, on a regular basis where he or she can make major and minor purchases with the extra $1000. The individual can move into a larger home, buy a car and make the payments, buy a digital TV, go out to dinner, go to the movies, go on a vacation, etc. Each of these things increase taxable economic activity facilitated by a tax paying worker. More economic activity requires more workers to handle the increased taxable economic activity.

In the end more taxes flow to the government. Plus, the entire private economy has expanded needing all kind of workers.

Kirk
People who don't pay taxes, don't get a tax cut. I would call it a gift. Taken from the tax PAYER and given to the tax RECEIVER by force from a group that is supposed to REPRESENT the tax PAYER. Remember no taxation without representation?

Shouldn't we be throwing tea in a harbor somewhere?

larry22
Good point and exactly right. So one could easily come to the conclusion that Barry and Co are not really wanting to "stimulate" the economy.

Check out Laura Hollis recent column...."Newsflash....they don't want a stimulus."

Dr and Lilly
You can't claim FDR's spending hastened us out of the depression. There is much eveidence now pointing to it causing it and prolonging it. Every recession we have had since 1900 as not lasted more than 2 years, except for the one in 1929, which went to a full blown depression and lasted for 12 years....and that was the only one that the gov't tried to bail out with huge funds...until now.

Lilly the trouble with you on the left is you compare things like minimum wage and poverty level to measure what the government has to do. They don't have to do anything. The guy at minimum wage or below the poverty line needs to do something for himself, as he is the most reliable resource he has...it's called hard work. People in need of extra money used to get a second job and not expect the government (other people) to pony up for them. It's what made us strong, the people, not the government bureaucrats. Those days are vanishing however.

The Republicans and Bush are guilty of reckless spending, but the Dems are now outdoing them 10 fold so far.
And you lefties can no longer complain about Bush's spending on the war. The Dems just spent enough in one day to finance the war for 9 years.

DOOFUS!
"More dishonesty."

MORE INSANITY ON YOUR PART.

"It's easy to understand why Republicans feel threatening by Obama, but the dishonesty of their economic arguments is astounding."

I HAVE BEEN AGAINST HYPER-SPENDING BY ALL REPUBLICANS SINCE I AM A fiscally conservative INDEPENDENT.

"Mackenzie ignores the fact that the "stimulus" consists of 40% tax cuts in addition to 60% spending."

YOU CAN KEEP MY $13/WEEK THAT WAS A "TAX CUT" PASSED ON FRIDAY THE 13TH. HECK! THEY SHOULD HAVE JUST GIVEN $6.66/WEEK.

"He claims that "spending rarely works" when in reality it worked well for the Great Depression (read Krugman and others)."

READ THE HUNDREDS OF ECONOMISTS THAT DISAGREE WITH KRUGMAN. AS FOR "THE GREAT DEPRESSION," GOOBERMINT SPENDING DID NOT WORK, WWII DID.

"He claims that "tax-cutting usually does [work]", when in reality tax cuts favoring the rich helped cause this current recession. (To claim that tax cuts worked for Bush II is ridiculous). "

AGAIN, I DON'T WANT A TAX CUT, BUT I DO WANT THE GOOBERMINT TO INSTRUCT US ON HOW TO GROW MONEY ON TREES. CAN YOU SAY "INFLATION"? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE "EVIL" RICH ARE NO LONGER RICH?

"People: Try reading legitimate economists rather than this dishonest propaganda you're being fed on Townhall. Same with Fox News."

I READ ALL NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS NEWSPAPERS. I LISTEN TO ALL SORT OF TV "NEWS."

"Reality exists."

SURE, IN OBAMA'S UTOPIA.


"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro... (or get elected to Congress or become Doofus)." Hunter S. Thompson

Re: Emotional Economics
"He claims that 'tax-cutting usually does [work]', when in reality tax cuts favoring the rich helped cause this current recession. (To claim that tax cuts worked for Bush II is ridiculous)."

Let's see! Bush cut taxes in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 promoting unprecedented economic growth and spurring substantial increased in Federal tax receipts. In 2006 Senate Democrats blocked proposed Bush tax cuts, as they did in 2007 and 2008 priming the economy for the 2008-2009 recession.

In 2008 Federal spending reached record levels thanks to several "stimulus" spending and bailout packages. The economy tanked. In the 1990's the Japan attempted to get their economy restarted by massive government spending - this resulted in what Japanese economists refer to as the "Lost Decade".

One definition of insanity is during the same thing over and over again, each time expecting a different result. Government spending didn't turn around the Great Depresssion in the 1930s and early 40s; it didn't get the Japanese economy back on track in the 1990's and it didn't change our current economic downtown in 2008. Why would any rational person believe that Obama Pork-monster would work today? The real economist on Wall Street are betting it wont.


Kirk ... Western Bondbeam ...
...to re-inforce your points. The people who don't pay taxes and get the Obama tax credit, which Obama calls tax cuts, of $120 per month probably can't and won't finance a car or buy a big ticket consumer item. The money will go into the drug trade, buy lotto tickets, to the corner liquor store and its gone.

If Obama and democrats lowered the monthly tax rate of workers, giving them an extra $600 per month, thousands of cars could be purchased. Digital TV's, family night out (like the Obama's like to do), etc, would occur. The entire national economy would experience as much if not more stimulation than Chris Matthews. Everyone in the society would benefit!

democrat love of class warfare hurts all classes!

Sharing The Burden.
During the great depression farm based labor made up more than 80 percent of the economy. Even in those lean years farm owners always made sure that their help never starved. It was possible to get some work and even shelter in a farm shack. Strangers were never turned away and many were sent off with a swagger bag full of food. The economy soon started to recover. Better wages were offered in the big cities and farm laborers left. The good life was available to all that wanted to work. Times have changed and big cities are not able to provide the jobs. Once busy workers are now unemployed. And there are no farm owners left to save them. But hope is eternal. The U.S. government is now trying to feed and house those who have lost their jobs and have no place to go. Trillions are needed. We all must share the burden--it is wrong to refuse.

Doofus & Wilted Lilly

If it wasn't for the grim economic reality, I would laugh at the two (or one) of you. Let me know where to purchase your Krugman-approved wedding presents.

You both realize that gold is nearing $1K because people fail to applaud the hyper-spending of governments all around the World. Don't you?

China & Russia think that we are nuts and they are pretty fracking crazy.

Are the two of you in the ink or wheelbarrow businesses? Ink as in the Goobermint's printing of currency. Wheelbarrow as in what you will need to haul currency to buy a soda.

Denise
You said: YOU CAN KEEP MY $13/WEEK THAT WAS A "TAX CUT" PASSED ON FRIDAY THE 13TH. HECK! THEY SHOULD HAVE JUST GIVEN $6.66/WEEK.

You made me spill my coffee.

I don't remember where I read this, but someone compared Gov. spending to "Cutting off your leg and eating it because you're starving. The end result is still death."

Re: Emotional Economics
The fallacy that all spending is what needed to "jump start" our economic has been proven wrong since economic data has been kept. The two types of spending in the Obama Pork-monster at government spending (on theorically needed infrastructure and proping up State and Local Government who have bursted their budgets), and consumer spending, mainly through tax refunds and "refunds" to those who pay no taxes (to spur consumer spending on things that these consumer apparently don't wont or need, but what the heck if government is giving me the money I may as well blow it on a new dress made in China). The strategy is short-sighted and counter-productive.

The only true way to expand economic growth for the "long-term" is to incentivize investment in America's real "job-creating engine", the private sector. Massive government spending, either on Pork Projects, Bailouts of fiscally irresponsible State and Local Governments or handouts in the form of "tax rebates" or give-aways to non-taxpayers is not the way go, as every dollar put into such spending must be taken from the economy in the form of more government borrowing, higher taxes, or infallation exploding artificial monetary growth.

The best answer is to make private sector investment more attractive by permenantly doing away with capital gains tax on investments and dividend payments. That will spark the job growth that will expand employment, and someone who is fully employed is more likely to purchase that dress fro China, even without a gift from Uncle Sam.

Melvin, there are 20 million illegal...
...immigrants who have found work in our economy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/0 1/14/AR2009011401366.html

Many Americans and illegal and legal immigrants have what is called an Internal Locus of Control:

http://wilderdom.com/psychology/loc/LocusOfControlWhatIs.ht ml

Most democrats have an External Locus of Control:

"Locus of Control refers to the extent to which individuals believe that they can control events that affect them. Individuals with a high internal locus of control believe that events result primarily from their own behavior and actions. Those with a high external locus of control believe that powerful others, fate, or chance primarily determine events."

Republicans want external locus individuals to develop and shift to an INTERNAL locus of control. democrats want EXTERNAL locus individuals to stay afraid and EXTERNAL and voting for democrats ... election after election.

Who of these two political parties, Republican or democrat, actually cares for and loves the individual?

J-10
"Denise
You said: YOU CAN KEEP MY $13/WEEK THAT WAS A "TAX CUT" PASSED ON FRIDAY THE 13TH. HECK! THEY SHOULD HAVE JUST GIVEN $6.66/WEEK.

You made me spill my coffee.

I HOPE THAT IT WASN'T TOO HOT.

I don't remember where I read this, but someone compared Gov. spending to "Cutting off your leg and eating it because you're starving. The end result is still death."

STARVE THE BEAST AND READ MY "1 DAY PER WEEK" POST, WHICH WILL FOLLOW.

1 Day Per Week.

The Goobermint is spending borrowed and printed money, which will lead to eventual inflation, while the rest of us are cutting back.

For the last several months, I have gotten as much of my own financial house in order as possible and stopped spending money on anything at least one day each week.

Don't buy anything. Make your own lunch. Don't buy coffee or soft drinks. Don't buy CDs or clothes. Again, DON'T BUY ANYTHING. PERIOD.

Use that money to pay down your debt and/or save your money.

Obama is going to release the news next week that the current budget deficit will be $1.5T this year. This doesn't take into account future bailouts, spending to prevent foreclosures, on unfunded obligations like SS, Medicare, etc.

Start with, at least, 1 day a week.

This column
is so unbelievably depressing.

But I wil say the Japanese minister should keep his job -- drunkeness seems like a rational response to the global economic situation.

What scare me most is China buying gold while still lending us money. Think they know they are buying crap but are enabling us to bankrupt ourselves just like we did the Soviet Union?

larry22
But Obama's new welfare plan opens up great investment opportunities for the rest of us.

Must investigate investing in liquor stores, strip clubs, athletic shoes, and video poker...

Re: Emotional Economics
"The U.S. government is now trying to feed and house those who have lost their jobs and have no place to go. Trillions are needed. We all must share the burden--it is wrong to refuse."

You obviously are clueless as the just what a "trillion dolloars" represents and also the number of workers represented by the 7-8% unemployment figure. In most cases, those affected by this economic downturn are already receiving subsidized housing support and are receiving "food stamps". Unemployment insurance, paid for by the employer (and evidentually by all employees through lower wages) have been exteneded and enhenced. The Obama $800 Billion and change Pork-monster, equalling ALL FEDERAL BORROWING from 1776 through the Ford Administration in 1976, does nothing for the housing and feeding needs for those who may have lost their jobs in this "business cycle" downturn.

Re: Stimulation Something
"Must investigate investing in liquor stores, strip clubs, athletic shoes, and video poker... "

Hmmm! Sounds like the spending habits of many the recipients of thosee US Government Katrina victims' "debit cards". Or maybe those of Federal Bureacrats with access to Uncle Sam's Credit Cards.

Dr Douglas
Could you be a bigger idiot? The Bush tax cuts increased revenue to government every year.

And everyone got a tax cut not just the "rich." And as to that the rich save more money when tax rates are cut because they pay more.

My family, which is not rich, is facing over 10,000 dollars in extra taxes when the Bush tax cuts expire, but I'm sure an extra 13 dollars a week will more than make up for it.

You really should not have an opinion as you are a net loss to the taxpayer between your salary, benefits, and pension. You do not live in the real world with people who actually work for a living or better still provide jobs for others. You pontificate by keyboard while you suck endlessly on the goverment teat.

J-10: Reading Material For The Day

Since you have spilled your coffee, cough up your cookies by reading my "Alice In O's Utopia" because it will be great for your food intake.

LuLu...
you wrote:
"Think they know they are buying crap but are enabling us to bankrupt ourselves just like we did the Soviet Union?"

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId= 75101

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/letters /articles/2008/08/31/son_sees_fathers_handiwork_in_conventi on/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saul_Alinsky

"In Rules for Radicals, Alinsky outlines his strategy in organizing, writing in the prologue, 'There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevski said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution. To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system.'"

Guess who's in the White House!!!! Our only hope is that history shows the first act of an overthrow is to start eliminating the "useful idiots".

http://www.usefulidiots.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

"In political jargon, the term "useful idiot" was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in western countries and the alleged attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that though the person in question naïvely thought themselves an ally of the Soviets or other Communists, they were actually held in contempt by them, and being cynically used."

Could this be how democrats view their political supporters!?!?

Denise 1-day per week
I've lived my whole life (country boy)that way.I guess by todays standards I'm a "Bad American"

Just tell Congress NO to more spending!
Congress just passed a 1 TRILLION dollar “stimulus” plan – and now they’ve got their hands out AGAIN!

Yes, believe it or not, the spending isn’t stopping.

Obama is now pitching a 75 BILLION dollar mortgage bailout plan.

And the guys at GM and Chrysler are back asking for another handout of almost 20 BILLION.

This is on top of a trillion dollar “stimulus” that created 32 NEW government programs.

And in the meantime, our national debt is already over TEN TRILLION dollars!

Tell Congress this madness has to stop!

Click below and send a personalized message to your members of Congress today!

http://www.conservativeoutpost.com/campaign/cta/stop_spendi ng

SOROS ECONOMIC RECOVERY PLAN

Our puppet President and Socialist House Speaker are following the dictates of George Soros. Quote from an article on the USA's Economic Recovery Plan written by George Soros:

"- to prevent the economy from sliding into a depression, President Obama must embark on a radical and comprehensive policy package that has five major components:

1. A fiscal stimulus package
2. A thorough overhaul of the mortgage system
3. Recapitalization of the banking system
4. An innovative energy policy
5. Reform of the international financial system

I shall briefly discuss each of these elements."

The article goes on to outline all of the above elements, one of which is to follow the Danish mortgage system:
"The question is, how can you get there from here? Originally, I proposed a grand scheme in which all mortgages that are under water (i.e., whose principal amount exceeds the current market value of the house) would be replaced by a new mortgage, incorporating the Danish principle of balance but being insured by a government agency."

This is exactly what the Obama administration is following. Throughout the article George Soros uses the word "scheme".

Our entire economice plan for the USA is now a SCHEME of George Soros, the biggest socialist advocate in the world.

What say you America?



The end of trickle down
President Obama promised a change from the old worn ideas of the past. No more trickle down we'll have a stimulus.

If the government gives money to Citi and GM it is not trickle down?

Maybe we can call it trickle up poverty.

Re: Emotional Economics
"He claims that "spending rarely works" when in reality it worked well for the Great Depression (read Krugman and others)."

How about reading Henry Morgenthau Jr., FDR's Secretary of the Treasury, 1934-45, and architect of the Great Depression's govewrnment spending engine - the New Deal. About Sec. Morgenthau admitted, before Democrat-packed House Ways and Means Committee on May 9, 1939 the following evaluation of the impact of government spending on the Great Depression:

“We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work.”

“I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises.”

Considering that it was 5 years too late, at least he was honest. Now who would know more about the impact of government spending on the Great Depression, Roosevelt's Secretary of the Treasury or the discredited financial advise to Enron?



Cracks surface in the Obamonation
Even Chicago crack dealers are upset, the 13 extra dollars in tax credits per week for their customers only enough to buy fake bling!

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1039849853

"Some of the students attentively watched the speech, giving questioning looks and comments, shaking their heads and laughing at some of Obama's words:"

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/135656

"I'll keep my freedom ... you can keep the change!":
http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/2009/02/18 /20090218prez-protest0218.html

http://www.newsok.com/okc-officer-pulls-man-over-for-anti-o bama-sign-on-vehicle/article/3347038?custom_click=headlines _widget

Obama, where is ACORN when ya need em!?!?

J-10 - Me, too
J-10
Location: AR
Reply # 2
Date: Feb 19, 2009 - 11:28 AM EST Denise 1-day per week
I've lived my whole life (country boy)that way.I guess by todays standards I'm a "Bad American"

You, me, and a whole lot of sane Americans!

Re: Emotional Economics
"Our puppet President and Socialist House Speaker are following the dictates of George Soros. Quote from an article on the USA's Economic Recovery Plan written by George Soros:

"- to prevent the economy from sliding into a depression, President Obama must embark on a radical and comprehensive policy package that has five major components:"

Hmmm! George Soros - isn't he the international "currency speculator" that single-handledly tanked the British Pound Sterling making his fortune at the expense of the British people? I guess it is time to start selling dollars and buying gold!

Keynesians
The stimulus package seems based on Keynesian theory. The idea is that even digging holes and filling them in stimulates the economy. However, Keynes said that such programs, paid from savings, did so. We are not paying for this bill from savings, we are incurring huge debt. This is the part the liberals have conveniently left out.

Re: Fixing Banking
The next trick for the Federal Government magicianwill "pulling the failed bank rabbit out of the hat". The so-called "bailout" started with $700 billion taxpayer ante in 2008 and the new non-tax-paying Secretary of Treasury says he now ready to go back to the "well" for more.

Amazingly, these clowns seem to have ignored a "toxic mortagage lending" model that seemed to have worked pretty well in the mid to late 1980s for the equally crippling "savings and loan crisis" which was finally cleaned up for about $124 billion in Federal taxpaye largess, despite earlier estimates of nearly a $400 billion "price tag". The mechanism used was the Resolution Trust Corp. which fixed the problem and went out of business. Does anyone think that Barry Hugo Obama and his tax-cheat Secretary of Treasury would using proving means to fix the current banking problem, instead of remaking the wheel with many more expensive Federal bureacrcy?

JOHN ACTON, FL - I AGREE WITH
all that you have posted here. I was in the Real Estate business from 1974-1994, 2 years as a Business Advisor for the US Peace Corps , in the mortgage business from 1998-2006.

In the late 1980's I worked with a Real Estate company that concentrated on selling the foreclosed homes that were in the Resolution Trust Corp. These homes sold fast and furious and were a good deal for a lot of first time homebuyers. The program worked for everyone, Lenders, homebuyers and the government.
When I worked for a mortgage company things had changed so much since the 1970's and 1980's. It did not take a rocket scientist to recognize that the mortgage business was a run away train.
Greed kept it rolling until 2008.

Now the Obama administration thinks they can spend their way out of this mess and the Americans citizens have no choice in the matter until 2010. We will pay again for this spending through high inflation and higher taxes. I predict that Americans will revolt against this insanity at the voting booths in November 2010.



Bail out, Bail out, Bail out
Banks, Savings and Loans (Remember that one? Obviously Congress forgot), Auto industry.

Which came first? Congress makes easy loans manditory? Wall Street invents packaging bad loans?

Why didn't Congress learn from the Savings and Loan Crisis?

Re: The Politics of Economics
To understand what the "man" in the White House is doing with his counter-intuitive Economics Programs it is helpful to look at what the last master of the "slight of hand", FDR did during the "Great Depression" and why he decided to use the least appropriate tactics to "fix" the problem. Three Myths about the Great Depression and FDR's "New Deal" are that it 1.) help us out of the Depression - it didn't! 2.) It was both a political, as well as, and economic success, it wasn't - it was ONLY a political success and only for the "Candyman" FDR and Democrats. 3.) Because of the "New Deal", FDR was widely respected, this is false only those who directly benefitted from FDR's governmental largess thought he was great. See: "Three Myths of the Great Depression" at: http://fee.org/nff/three-myths-of-the-great-depression/
Being from New York, FDR was a politcal product of Tammany Hall, a political organization that maintained its power through payoffs; kickbacks; government jobs and favors to supporters its "bosses" or "ward healers"; and political corruption. FDR brought Tammany Hall to Washington and the Federal Government keeping Democrats in power for nearly 60 years. Barry Hugo Obama is a politcal product of the Daly Machine in Chicago. Guess what he is bring to Washington and why!

Re: The Politics of Economics
To understand what the "man" in the White House is doing with his counter-intuitive Economics Programs it is helpful to look at what the last master of the "slight of hand", FDR did during the "Great Depression" and why he decided to use the least appropriate tactics to "fix" the problem. Three Myths about the Great Depression and FDR's "New Deal" are that it 1.) help us out of the Depression - it didn't! 2.) It was both a political, as well as, and economic success, it wasn't - it was ONLY a political success and only for the "Candyman" FDR and Democrats. 3.) Because of the "New Deal", FDR was widely respected, this is false only those who directly benefitted from FDR's governmental largess thought he was great. See: "Three Myths of the Great Depression" at: http://fee.org/nff/three-myths-of-the-great-depression/
Being from New York, FDR was a politcal product of Tammany Hall, a political organization that maintained its power through payoffs; kickbacks; government jobs and favors to supporters its "bosses" or "ward healers"; and political corruption. FDR brought Tammany Hall to Washington and the Federal Government keeping Democrats in power for nearly 60 years. Barry Hugo Obama is a politcal product of the Daly Machine in Chicago. Guess what he is bring to Washington and why!

hmmmm
dr douglass=moron

simple econ lesson, more money i keep from being taken away in taxes then better off the economy will be. higher taxes slows down the economy

and the gov is not going to spend the country into prosperty and a better economy , it is impossible and the gov does not know what i need

"Doctor" Douglas again the moron.
Quoting Paul Krugman, a man who has never actually worked in the field of economics, on the subject of economics is sort of like quoting Nancy Pelosi as an authority on the biblical teachings on abortion.

As far as the "40% tax cuts", that is an outright lie. One can not "cut" taxes on those who pay no taxes, and those "cuts" aren't even "cuts" even if they went to those who paid taxes. They are one-time rebates.

Paul Krugman argues that if only we had deficits on the order of 80% to 90% of the GDP, as opposed to the 35% of the GDP FDR gave us, somehow, miraculously, the Great Depression would not have been extended, but instead ended. He, of course, has ZERO evidence of this, but there are MOUNDS of evidence to the contrary. One only need look at how such plans worked out in the ex-Soviet bloc nations as well as Japan to see how Krugman, and "Doctor" Douglas, are so far from reality it isn't even funny.

The reason FDR's plan was, and Obama's plan is and will be, a monumental failure is because they ignore basic principles of economics. According to Krugman, and the FDR/Obama/Keynes, economic model, all an economy needs to do to keep going is print money and hand it to people to do busywork. Keynes himself stated an economy could be driven if the government prints up money to pay a bunch of people to dig holes and a bunch of other people to fill those holes in.

Ten years worth of a Great Depression later, and Krugman's only complaint is the hole diggers and filler-inners just weren't paid enough funny money.

REAL economists -- and not just those who play economist in rag newspapers or on college campuses -- know that economies rely on the production of real goods and services, not on paying people for busywork.

THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why the next few years will be known as The Great Obama Depression to future generations.

Economic Brain Trust
During the campaign our current president had a wonderfully impressive group of individuals he said would be advising him on the economy. So why did he let Pelosi write the bill?

He's just guessing!
This president does not have a clue, what the hell he's doing! He's throwing all he's got, against the wall, and whatever sticks, works!

high cost of the stimulus package
Don't you mean the high cost of Republicans
run amuk?

ALLEN -Ca ECONOMIC BRAIN TRUST

Your question: "So why did he (Obama) let Pelosi write the bill?

Do your recall hearing that when Obama was the President of the Law Review at Harvard he never wrote one publication for the Review. Also, when he was a Senator he never presented or sponsered one bill for the Senate.

Therefore, we can only assume that Obama let Pelosi write the Stimulus bill because Obama does not know how to write a proposal, presentation or a bill. He only knows how to campaign.

What say you America?


Allen, Try Brain Drain
Allen
Location: CA
Reply # 1
Date: Feb 19, 2009 - 3:00 PM EST Economic Brain Trust
During the campaign our current president had a wonderfully impressive group of individuals he said would be advising him on the economy. So why did he let Pelosi write the bill?

TRY ECONOMIC BRAIN DRAIN!

BTW: Pelosi = Pet Rock

reba
What say you America?"

Obama loves strong women. Grrrr.

Obamarama
Mr. Mackenzie: I am so pleased I discovered you. This won't add much to your career, because you obviously have been discovered many times before by many readers. However, allow me to say that you are now in my permanent file as a columnist of stellar import. (Stellar import? Am I running out of words? Where did that come from?) Anyway, thanks so much for your "High Cost" offering. Whereas U.S. liberals, like Hamas, are blindly shooting wandering rockets at the "enemy" across the border, and killing civilians, you, like the Israelis, are returning guided verbal missiles in return, and they are hitting the intended targets. Don't stop. Obama and his henchmen may be the last to know, but they are totally vulnerable in the court of public opinion. God bless you, sir, and thank you again for your reasoned opinions and your ability to express them concisely. Verne Strickland, Wilminton, NC.

Tammy
302 Democrats voted for the "stimulus" package (11 voted against) while 3 Republicans voted for passage (214 voting against). Just how is this stimulus bill a sign of "Republicans run amuk (sic)"?

Dear Mr. President,
You have just passed the largest tax increase in our nations history...on my 10 year old daughter, her 6 year old sister, and their 2 year old brother. I would stand in line for days to urinate on the graves of the authors of the bill and yours for signing it into law.

beowulfe
Easy answer: If Republicans hadn't forgotten their original mission, they would not have been fired and the Democrats would not be in control now. COMPLETE control.

Therefore, it's Republicans' fault The O and his Congress were able to ram this Pork-fest through.

Pork
Where to find the pork in the Pelosi/Reid "Stickit2us" bill. Go to http://www.stimuluswatch.org/

Off Shore Money Can Save Us.
The secret is out. There are trillions of dollars hidden in off shore bank accounts. A Swiss based bank UBS is now being forced to give up the names of 57 thousand Americans with billions in secret accounts. Most are tax cheats or super criminals who thought that their ill gotten gains were safe. There is a recession going on in the U.S. and the Government is searching for new sources of income. They can reap a windfall of an estimated 10 trillion dollars if they forced thousands of off shore banks to disclose the names of their secret bank account holders. The money could be used to bailout the American economy. Unfortunately that can of worms will never be opened up because many of our trusted business leaders are holders of those secret accounts.

Dr Douglas
Have you read the 'Stimulus' Bill? Economic approaches, positions and arguments are simply decoys.

Certainly Obama scares me, but not as much as his Congress. The Democrats are going to walk all over him.

It will take the Republicans to recruit the rational ones from the herd and seriously deliver the bipartisan Congress we need.

What? Did someone think that...
"change we can believe in" would happen overnight? No, change we can believe in will take quite a while, and it will cost much more than the stimulus package. Fortunately, there are many conservative Americans still employed who will pay for the change we believe in!

Dr Adams = your brain
Dr Douglas = your brain on drugs

The Rich are on Strike - Globally
If Obama wants socialism then the poor can pay for it. Period! People like me have worked their entire adult life without going into debt and it will be a cold day in hell when I let Obama and his socialist agenda take what I have accumulated for myself and my children. The only thing left for the rich to do is 'hide' their money by going into a cash only system where neither the federal, state or local government can monitor what they earn, keep or give.

This is how they do it in Kenya and that is how the 'rich' will begin operating in the USA. For Dr. Douglas and other liberals - this means, you can tax/punish the productive people through legislature but smart rich people know how to make money, keep that money and survive government systems that are created to redistribute their wealth.

Let the games begin and the pink slips increase! Americans will regret the day they voted this inept, inexperienced, socialist, muslim into office.

Black woman against Obamacide!

Note: Can Obama fire the tax cheat he appointed. This would be a gesture to boost his credibility and maybe average americans can have hope in his leadership again. SERIOUSLY!

melvin - class envy will destroy you!
The people who earned their money are done trying to 'keep the losers afloat'. Period! Not only will the 'average american' lose his or her job, they will be lining up for government benefits funded by chinese debt that their children won't afford to pay back.

Obama can find the 'secret accounts' but what will he do about informal cartels formed by the 'rich' in a cash only system? Whatever the dumb socialist and his thugs dream up at the whitehouse can be side stepped by any productive citizen who says 'no taxes without representation'. It's my money and NO, I WON'T BE SHARING IT WITH LOSERS.

I heard in NY 40K people pay for the welbeing of the 8 million who live there. See what happened in CA? That is where NY and other liberal guided states are headed. And don't think it won't happen, the rich are smarter than Obama on any given day. And Socialism will self destruct after it destroys and demoralizes the middle class who seem enchanted with class envy.

Get over it, the free ride will soon cost you and your family members and friends - your HOPE.

Reba - I say it's time to JUST SAY NO!
to the messiah and his ill advised, advisors, including tax cheats. How about we start a 'capitalists for change' movement? I would sign up.

Let those who want to live in a capitalistic society begin the change by using cash only and not disclosing anything they own to the government. After all, 'no taxation without representation'.

LET ALL AMERICANS SAY NO! - at least those who are the producers in this economy. ENOUGH ALREADY!

Melvin
"Most are tax cheats or super criminals who thought that their ill gotten gains were safe. There is a recession going on in the U.S. and the Government is searching for new sources of income."

How is Obama going to get them to pay up? There are only so many cabinet positions available.

John Acton & Other Keneysians
If Spending works well, why is CA bankrupt? After all they set their spending at 103 billion for 2008, and 30% of that was financed by debt. Now, they have IOU's to their citizens who were expecting tax credit checks.

Why is it not working in CA? Now that you have a CURRENT example of what stupid spending does, close your eyes and imagine CA being replicated at a federal level. That is what the genius from CA called Pelosi has decided to nationalize.

THE TITANIC JUST SAILED WITHOUT ANY LIFE JACKETS OR BOATS ON BOARD. After all, they think it is unsinkable. I suppose GM was also too big to fail until they failed.

ARE THESE THUGS SUFFERING TEMPORARY INSANITY?

Bush Economy!
One of the best on record!! Yeah Conservatives... things worked out so well.

And those tax cuts for the wealthy? Why those were the stimulus for the economy and the stock market. Why, just looking at the numbers during Bush's reign shows just how great those cuts were for all five quintiles of our citizens...

Well. Not so great. OK, the worst in my lifetime. But still, I gotta love those tax cuts tat went to the wealthy, because I sure as heck want the wealthy determining how to stimulate the economy because of course they give it all back to society in one form or another.

Right? A little help here. Somebody help me make Bush's reign look better than it actually was.

History will judge Bush's economy.

Wouldn't it be great if...
What if we had a pay as you go system. In that way, we would see the highest taxes and the highest rates across the board for Republican Presidents.

You want to spend like a Republican, then you have to pay for it now. No more of this "We'll spend more money than the Democrats, lower taxes (like this makes sense), then let the Democrats clean it up."

Republicans:
• spend more
• tax less
• don't know much about economy
• let the Democrats clean up their mess

Hitler Gave Great Speeches, Too! I
A Dobson H.S. AP-gov. class with strong opinions about Obama watched the his speech Wed. on a small, grainy TV in the corner of their classroom.

Some attentively watched the speech, giving questioning looks and comments, shaking their heads and laughing at some of Obama's words.

O's gym events were shown simultaneously in rooms throughout the Mesa school. The students in the AP class were hopeful things will work out but questioned whether Obama's plan would actually work to dig the country out of its economic woes. They also expected a longer speech.

Sr. Daudfar took some notes during the speech and was among the most vocally opposed to Obama's words.

At one point, when he talked about the costs of his stimulus plan, Srs. Albach and Daudfar looked at each other and said, "uh-oh."

"Overall, I think it's a good idea, but he's not addressing the issues of the economic crisis," said Daudfar. "The spending bill he just passed is just progressing the Democratic agenda rather than addressing the economic issues in the country."

Daudfar thinks Obama's plan is backward and deals with the "less important stuff" first. "Bailing out businesses" and "providing better regulatory systems for giving out money to businesses" should have been first, he said.

"If businesses can't afford to hire people, then people won't be able to work and pay off their mortgages," he said. "It's kind of like putting money into20a funnel." Albach, who is also a Rep., said Obama's plan sounds good but questioned how Obama can want to rely on "people's responsibility" when that is "what got us in this economic crisis in the first place."

"This puts us more into debt," said Albach, 18. "It's a horrible situation we're in."

Sr. Miller wore a shirt with the words, "Hitler gave great speeches, too" above a picture of Obama.

Hitler Gave Great Speeches, Too! II
Miller said he had been an Obama supporter "because of his speeches," but after debating the issues in this class and looking more into Obama's policies, his vote was swayed toward McCain.

He showed a video on his camera he had just taken of the president's minutelong motorcade . Miller had also spent a couple of hours in front of the school, hanging out and watching the protesters, which included at least one of his students.

"Even though I don't support him, I think it's cool he's here," said Miller, 18. "I just don't believe all the things he's telling us. His goal is just too big and broad."

Miller wanted to hear more about the costs and guidelines the stimulus bill entails.

Sr. Katelyn Meyer, who also leans more toward being a Republican, said Obama's plan sounds good, "but it's easier said than done."

The students also questioned why Obama chose their school for his speech since he wasn't talking about education and wondered how much money the district spent on beautifying the campus while district positions and services are being cut.

New sod was laid in front of the school Tuesday for O's visit, and Daudfar said, "The joke at the school is they're going to take it away when he (Obama) leaves."

AP government teacher Jeff Sherrer said his students "feel very strongly about the issues, maybe more than the general population." He thought at least one of his students was outside protesting, and he had planned to take his students outside as a class project to show them what was going on but didn't get the chance.

"These kinds of kids really get into it," Sherrer said. "During the election we had lots of debates on the issues."

8 years of this stuff
"""Bailing out businesses" and "providing better regulatory systems for giving out money to businesses" should have been first, he said.

""If businesses can't afford to hire people, then people won't be able to work and pay off their mortgages," he said."

So we need to give even more breaks to the uber-wealthy than we already have. We tried this for 8 long and mostly tragic years, and it failed. It doesn't matter at this point how much more money you throw at a business, because nobody is buying their stuff. Businesses CAN afford to hire people, but they don't have work for them.

Can you imagine how bad things would be in four more years if Bush were still in office? Bush never had a clue what he was doing in economics, and apparently the people who surrounded him didn't as well. Many saw this crash coming, but Bush and others said the "economy is strong."

Ah, the good old days when the Prez would simply lie to the public and tell them everything was fine and dandy (at their country club).

inthemajority

I DON'T WANT THE GOOBERMINT'S $13/WEEK.

THE NAKED EMPEROR PAULSON, WHO WAS A PARTNER WITH AL GORE IN HIS CARBON-CREDIT SCAM, TOLD BUSH THAT TARP HAD TO BE PASSED. I DISAGREED.

THE EMPEROR THEN TOLD CONGRESS, WHO FAILED TO PLACE ANY OVERSIGHT ON THE MONEY. I SCREAMED "BLOODY MURDER"!

THE GOOBERMINT SHOULD TRY CUTTING SPENDING.

BTW/ JOE FRANCIS IS READYING A NEW VIDEO. IT'S CALLED "DEMS GO WILD IN A CULTURE OF CORRUPTION"!

THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS AGREE WITH ME.

Denise
"THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS AGREE WITH ME."

The majority of Americans voted with me. Maybe you should go to sleep and wake up after the big boys straighten out Bush's mess.

I do hopw you were interested in government spending in the past eight years. You know, when Bush handed up the largest deficit ever. When Bush handed billions to Halliburton and Blackwater with absolutely no oversight.

None.

When you see Blackwater employees playing football with wads of 100-dollar bills, you just know Bush authorized it with Cheney smirking in the background. We lost more money due to "accounting errors" than we will ever know. Many billions (that's Billions with a B).

If you were already screaming at the top of your lungs while Bush was spending more money than any other President, than I spologize. If you were applauding as Clinton balanced the budget (no small feat considering the tremendous spending by the previous Presidents) then I double apologize.

But it would be wise to wait and see what happens with intelligent action instead of pretending that unintelligent inaction was good for us.

Please,
Please do not stimulate the economy any more! My 401k can't take anymore!

Oh, God, Denise
Are you still comparing Obama to Hitler?


Polly
"Easy answer: If Republicans hadn't forgotten their original mission, they would not have been fired and the Democrats would not be in control now. COMPLETE control.
Therefore, it's Republicans' fault The O and his Congress were able to ram this Pork-fest through."

Hmmm, by that logic, it is the murder victim who is at fault for "allowing" the murderer to commit the murder. After all, had the victim been more vigilant, they could have been armed with a gun, wearing a bulletproof vest, and able to thwart the murderer's attack.

While I agree Republicans are to blame for their massive losses in congress, blaming them for the things the Democrats have done in their stead is a bit ridiculous.

inthemajority
Isn't it amusing that Barak Obama's OWN economic advisors say the "stimulus" bill won't work? Isn't it interesting that congress has already started mulling over a SECOND "stimulus" bill because they are already assuming the first will not work? Isn't it interesting that Joe "There are 3 letters in the word 'J-O-B-S'" Biden said that even if everything went PERFECTLY, there is still a 30% chance that the "stimulus" won't work?

You talk about "adults" when all the Democrats came up with for a "stimulus" was a collection of 30-year-old pet projects that EVERY SINGLE ECONOMIST ON PLANET EARTH has said will do nothing but drive us deaper in debt? Even the spending-happy Congressional Budget Office -- a group whose job it is to justify every spending increase imaginable -- can't even fudge the numbers enough to show that this "stimulus" bill will be anything other than a catastrophe.

Nay, in a few years, after the Great Obama Depression gets into full swing, and unemployment, inflation, and interest rates are all in double-digits, even YOU will be yearning for the "childish" Republicans to take back the reigns.

Oh, and this is just a laugh riot
"If you were applauding as Clinton balanced the budget..."

Clinton didn't balance the budget. The Republican Congress did.

Heck, it was the idea of the balanced budget that got the Republicans back in the majority...or did you forget Newt Gengrich and his Contract With America?

In fact, Bill Clinton VETOED the balanced budgets a number of times. He even threw a temper tantrum -- sort of the presidential version of "I'll hold my breath until you buy me that candy bar!" -- when he "shut down the government" because Gengrich refused his pleas for a more bloated budget.

It wasn't until Bill Clinton's pollster notified him that a balanced budget was popular among the people that he would even consider signing it.

In short, it is a MASSIVE revision of history to say that Bill Clinton balanced the budget. The Republican congress balanced the budget, and Slick Willy was dragged along kicking and screaming the whole way.

Ethan- Stop Curling Your Hair!
"Oh, God, Denise
Are you still comparing Obama to Hitler?"

I NEVER COMPARED OBAMA TO HITLER. IF YOU READ MY POSTS, YOU WOULD SEE THAT IT WAS A FORMER OBAMA SUPPORTER WHO WORE A SHIRT SAYING "HITLER GAVE GOOD SPEECHES, TOO".

Do me a favor, S.V.P. Go tell the third of Europeans, who blame their economic disaster, on "those dirty Jews."

If you want to see spending-on-ugly, go read my several "From RedState To Love" posts on Bozell's column. If you still feel warm-n-fuzzy afterwards, then go watch Francis' new video, "Dems Gone Wild."

Now, quit curling your Hitler!

Not inthemajority On This.

The majority of Americans agree with me on O's boondoggle.

And, don't even get me started about GWB. Anyone, who is vaguely aware of my positions, KNOWS that I am a FISCALLY-CONSERVATIVE INDEPENDENT and have criticized GWB, as well.

I say a pox on both big-spending houses.

To inthemajority
You will be wishing we had the Bush economy once Obama and the Soros control democrats get thru with us. Inthemajority can't tell us who will pay for this travesty.

Denise
All things considered, in their general philosophical principles, Obama and Hitler are more closely aligned than most want to admit. Consider:

- They both believe that the masses, while, perhaps, well meaning, are intrinsically stupid and need an all-powerful government to direct their every move.
- They both are Marxists to the core.
- They both believe that the government ought to be able to direct every aspect of everyone's lives, all the way down to one's individual diet.
- They are both revolutionaries, seeking to destroy the establishment and replace it with some "new way".
- They are both racists who feel all the ills of "their own race" are all caused by some other race.

Arguably, the most significant difference between Hitler and Obama is that Hitler was an uber-patriot (nationalist) while Obama really doesn't care much for the nation which he presides over.

It's fascinating
How deep liberals are dug in on this guy Obama. Many of us (conservatives) had issues with some of the things that Bush did (and we can admit it). However, it looks like we'll have to wait until the libs personally experience pain from his "hope and change" - and they will - for them to see what conservatives all know - Obama is not who he says he is. He is taking our country to a place where everyone loses (except the elite who hold power.

I find it also fascinating that those who are the loudest advocates for the poor and downtrodden are rich liberals - they have no interest in the poor other than to keep themselves in office.

The return of the Black Market...
...I like Sandra's comments about going strictly cash (although not with paper money--with gold and silver coinage and barter). The greedy-guts in Congress will, of course, try their hardest to "regulate" all of these, but verbal agreements between consenting adults are very difficult to capture, much less tax.

It worked in the old Soviet Union...

Figure Me, This! Libs.

60% still approve of Obama, which is down 5% in three weeks.

72% of Americans believe that people are becoming too reliant on the Goobermint, including over 60% of Democrats. All believe that such reliance is a dangerous thing.

Less than 25% of Americans approve of Congress.

More than 50% of Americans expect to see little or no benefit in Obamanomics.

The Dow Jones is down to its lowest level in 10 years.

Unemployment continues to increase.

Interest rates are starting to rise.

China & Russia BOTH think that the Goobermint has gone crazy.

Your neighbor does not want to bail you out, if you have an extra bathroom, but are unable to pay your mortgage.

John Kerry doesn't want to give you any tax cut because you might invest it in your own family or small business.

O closed Gitmo without a plan for the detainees. Iran launched a satellite on a missle capable of hitting Europe. North Korea is about to test a missle capable of hitting the West Coast.

Y'all make about enough sense as the dummies in the Banana Republic in which I live, who believe that the Chinese will sail up the MS River, if America defaults on any loans.


Yes...
Obama has been handed a mess by Bush and how is he handling it? Just like Bush - more prosecution of war, more intervention, more spending. He's done in one.

Cowards-R-Us!
The first African-American Attorney General, Eric Holder, calls us a “nation of cowards” on race, even though, but for white Americans, BHO never would have been elected POTUS.

What would Holder maketh of me? Considering that I voted for an Indian-American and Vietnamese-American, but against an African-American, who was busted with $90K in a frozen Eggo box, would I be a coward? Would my black (she doesn’t use the A.A. label) best friend be considered a “coward” even though she voted against Obama and Dollar Bill?

A Democratic California legislator, Maldonado, who voted for tax hike, the ripped tax hikes saying that we should never become a nation of sharecroppers for the GOOBERMINT.

This month is the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall; yet, we are facing an Eastern Germany economic philosophy.

Well, you Libs., have fun! This “coward” is off to sharecropping the Eastern bloc!

Denise, et. al.
Since you're so deeply opposed on grounds both economic and moral to the stimulus, why don't you pony up some actual integrity instead of posturing on the internet, and write your governor and congressmen telling them not to accept a dime of the money, not to help anyone in your state, not to even take one check, or you will petition for their recall.

Let's see if you can do more than talk.

Ethan - Already Done!
Denise, et. al.
Since you're so deeply opposed on grounds both economic and moral to the stimulus, why don't you pony up some actual integrity instead of posturing on the internet, and write your governor and congressmen telling them not to accept a dime of the money, not to help anyone in your state, not to even take one check, or you will petition for their recall.

Let's see if you can do more than talk.


ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I HAVE TELEPHONED. I HAVE WRITTEN. I HAVE EMAILED. EVERYONE, INCLUDING ALL 100 SENATORS, 535 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AND MY GOVERNOR. I EVEN "WALKED THE TALK" BY VISITING MY REPRESENTATIVES' OFFICES.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT ME VOTING FOR ANYONE, WHO ENSLAVES US THROUGH OBAMANOMICS. THAT IS AS GOOD AS DONE.

Now, I know that you are having problems contacting one of your representatives. Ex-ex- Governor in prison. Ex-Governor about to be indicted. Current Senator is being called upon to resign by even black pastors. All of the Crook County officials that have been indicted and/or convicted.

Why don't you lead a group to recall dyeing the Chicago River green? You guys can substitute red, as in the blood that we are being asked to give.

Tear up all the mortgages ...
.....and start printing money as fast as you can. Call it reparations, if you want, we don't care anymore. Its not our country anymore.

Your $$$ For His Billions

Billionaire Paul Allen is a Microsoft cofounder, the owner of the NFL’s Seattle Seahawks and the owner of the NBA’s Portland Trailblazers.

And, thanks to the stimulus bill President Obama signed this week, he’s also about to be as much as a billion dollars richer.

Here’s how:

Allen owns a majority stake in cable provider Charter Communications.

Charter Communications this month said it would reduce its debt load by $8 billion and enter Chapter 11.

Normally, partners at a firm like Charter Communications would have to pay taxes on the amount of debt forgiven in this process, which is, in a sense a one-time income windfall. Tax law calls it a “deemed distribution.”

But under the new bill, companies like Charter Communications will be able to avoid paying taxes on forgiven debt until 2014. Even then, Paul will have until 2018 to pay it completely off.

Paul owns about half of Charter, so his share of the Charter Commuincations’ $8 billion debt forgiveness is around $4 billion. At a tax rate of 25%, Allen could avoid paying as much as $1 billion in taxes until 2014, tax expert Robert Willens told the WSJ.

For what it’s worth, one of Paul’s representatives told the WSJ the billionaire didn’t lobby for the windfall. It just fell into his lap, lucky dog.


OK, Stimu-siders, how do feel about that economic justice?

THE LONDON DAILY'S TAKE ON OBAMA
The following is a article by the The London Daily Mail providing their take on Obama:
"A victory for Obama-worshippers every where. A victory for the cult of the cult.
A man who has done little with his life, yet has written about his achievements as if he'd found the cure for cancer in between winning a marathon and building a nuclear reactor with his teeth. Victory for style over substance, hyperbole over history, rabble-raising over reality. A victory for Hollywood, the single most dysfunctional community in the entire world.

Victory for Streisand, Spielberg, Soros and Sarandon. Victory for those who prefer welfare to will and interference to independence. For those who settle for group think and herd mentality rather than those who fight for individual initiative and the right to be out of step with meager political fashion.
-victory for those who believe the state is better qualified to raise children than the family, for those who prefer teachers' unions over teaching and for those who are naively convinced if the West is sufficiently weak towards its enemies, war and terror will dissolve as quickly as the tears on the face of a leftist celebrity. A victory for social democracy even after most of Europe has come to the painful conclusion social democracy leads to mediocrity, failure, unemployment, inflation, higher taxes and economic stagnation. A victory for intrusive lawyers, banal sentimentalists, social extremists and urban snobs. Congratulations America!"

They understand him too. America really is screwed. Maybe Queen Elizabeth of England will revoke the Colonists' Independence and save us all.


Reba
Wow! A British conservative...didn't know they still existed. I agree with everything that writer said. Thanks for sharing.

McCarthy was right
Democrats are ruining our country and they couldn't care less. They will just blame it all on Bush.

"ALL of our country's enemies..."
Over last year's Thanksgiving dinner, someone was foolish enough to remark that one of the good things about the election of what I will always call the Community Organizer was that it made the Europeans happy. Before being shushed by the hostess, I answered, "yes, ALL of our country's enemies are gladdened by that."

I stand by that observation. Barry has given me no reasons to think I erred.


+++

Foolish is as Foolish Does..
I think it's obvious by now that Obama is in WAY over his head. The smooth talkin', street agitatin' snake-oil salesman that fooled so many over here isn't fooling the Bad Guys abroad! (I hope his learning curve picks up soon). His slickness is starting to fade as the Russians, Iranians, dog-eating North Koreans give Obama big stink eye(hawaiian talk). Welcome to the big leagues, rookie!

GM, Chrysler and other standing in line
I am to the point where talk is cheap and action is what is needed. So other then e-mailing/calling Senators and Reps. I am also letting GM, Chrysler and others standing in line for a gov. hand-out know that I am not buying their products. I will also instruct my children not to do so. As it is I do not get the liberal newspapers such as the L.A.Slimes and others. We the people can do somethings still (at least until The Great Oz and his Munchkins find some way to stop us). Let's start using our pocketbooks to not support those that support the Great Oz.

One of the reasons
"The Big Three" are going belly up for various reasons, but one of the main reasons is unions;

"Unions increase overall costs at plants, Randle said, explaining that the foreign automakers are drawn to the South where unionization is not mandatory and where workers have resisted calls to join voluntarily. If a plant is unionized in the North, everyone must join.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/01/auto.south/

hmmm...aren't the Great Oz and his Munchkins trying topass some sort of legislation that takes away the workers right to a private vote when it comes to unionizing? Note that workers are resisting voluntarily...so Oz and his Munchkins are trying to find ways to make it mandatory. That way he can pay off the union thugs forsupporting him. Crooked is as crooked does.



trespassers william
"some sort of legislation that takes away the workers right to a private vote when it comes to unionizing?"

No.

Next Fox lie...

A lie in the opening line
I haven't read any other comments so I don't know if anyone else has brought this up, but didn't Bush's last round of tax cuts add up to about $1.35trn? And is that not an economic measure? And is it not almost double the size of the stimulus Obama has just signed? Still, who cares about facts when there are partisan sabres to rattle, eh...

aggiehogdog
"You will be wishing we had the Bush economy once Obama and the Soros control democrats get thru with us."

Sorry, I'm just looking at past records. Democrats spend less and are better with budgets. Our current taxes are going towards Reagan's war machine and Bush's mistakes. Democratic presidencies have better economies.

"Inthemajority can't tell us who will pay for this travesty."

Sure I can: we ALL pay for Bush's mistakes. Where have you been for the past eight years? Of COURSE we pay for the Billions lost in Iraq (and I mean lost, as in accounting errors). We ALL pay for the bad economy Bush created. We ALL pay for Kenny Boy Lay, Abramhof, Madoff...

It remains to be seen how well the new stimulus plan will work out. The past is known: Bush costs us dearly. The future is unknown, but we know that Bush's inaction cost us too much, and republican's plan would be "tax the wealthy less". Didn't work for eight years, would probably not work for four more.

TOUCH THE HEM
I'm ashamed to be called a conservative after reading all of this mean-spiritedness.We should all reach down deep in our bank accounts and give President OhBlahBlah all the help we can--NOT!

Denise
I happen to know Ethan. He does not live in Illinois.

You are a moron.

Also, Denise
threatening your congressmen to NOT VOTE for the bill is different than threatening them for ACCEPTING THE MONEY.

Now, if you had ba11s enough to put your threats into the letters column of your local newspaper, where your neighbors can see them, instead of posting anonymous hate-spews on the internet then your rants would csrry some weight and you wouldn't look like such a wussy coward.

Re: John Acton & Other Keneysians
Where on earth did you get the idea I was Keneysians (Keynesian?)? As far as I am concern John Maynard was "all wet"!

Re: Clean Money
"Unfortunately that can of worms will never be opened up because many of our trusted business leaders are holders of those secret accounts."

The 57 thousand name list will probably mirror Barry Hugo Obama's campaign contributors list!

Re: Short memory syndrone
"Well. Not so great. OK, the worst in my lifetime."

Obviously you are you must be only 16 years old. Perhaps you can't remember the Jim Carter Economic "Malaise" and his double digit "Misery Index".

• Carter: Interest rate, 21%. Inflation, 13.5%. Unemployment, 7%. = Misery Index = Ave. 1977–1980: 16.27; Low Apr 1978: 12.60 High: Jun 1980 21.98

• Reagan: Interest rate, 9%. Inflation, 4.1%. Unemployment, 5.5%. Misery Index = Ave. 1981–1988: 12.19; Low Dec 1986: 70 High Sep 1981: 19.33

• Bush I: Interest rate, 6.50%. Inflation, 3.03%. Unemployment, 7.40 %. Misery Index = Ave. 1989–1992: 10.68; Low Sep 1989: 9.64; High: Nov 1990: 12.47

• Clinton: Interest rate, 9.50%. Inflation, 3.38%. Unemployment, 3.90%. Misery Index = Ave. 1993–2000: 7.80; Low Apr 1998: 5.74; High Jan 1993: 10.56

• Bush II: Interest rate, 3.25%. Inflation, 0.03%. Unemployment, 4.5%. Misery Index = Ave. 2001 - 2008: 8.10; Low Oct 2006: 5.71; High: Aug 2008: 11.47

I suppose you yearn for the good old years of Jimmy Carter. Imagine how difficult it would be to be paying off a mortgage with 21%+ interest.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.