Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Thursday, December 25, 2008
Robert Knight :: Townhall.com Columnist
Celebrating the Holiday that Dare Not Speak Its Name
by Robert Knight
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


’Twas the Night Before,
Near the end of the craze,
As shoppers bought for Christmas
Not “happy holidays.”

December 24 is that wonderful day of the year when all but the most stubborn holdouts drop the “happy holidays” charade and use the word Christmas, as in Christmas Eve.

Before then, the sound of “happy holidays” rang with the same frequency as cash registers, all for the holiday that dare not speak its name.

Resistance is growing to the secularization of Christmas, as evidenced by more advertisers inserting the word Christmas here and there. Liberty Counsel, a Christian legal advocacy group based in Lynchburg, Virginia, has a “Naughty & Nice List” that tracks whether retailers acknowledge Christmas or stick to the strictly secular. As of this week, the list had 62 “nice” retailers, contrasted with only 23 “naughty” ones. Several on the “nice” list, such as Costco, came over from the dark side after the American Family Association and other pro-family groups alerted their members. Macy’s, the home of Miracle on 34th Street, came around in 2006 after California civic activist Manny Zamorano targeted the chain with a national campaign to “save Merry Christmas.”

Other individuals, too, are challenging the imposition of secular, generic greetings.

A Panama City, Florida resort property employee was fired on Dec. 10 for refusing to answer the phone with “happy holidays.” An Air Force veteran and Christian, Tonia Thomas had asked her employer to let her say “Merry Christmas” or to use the firm’s standard greeting. The employer, whom we’ll call, oh, “Scrooge, Inc.,” showed her to the door. Merry Christmas.

Thomas is not alone in her aversion to the nauseatingly ubiquitous “happy holidays.” The phrase has morphed from cheerful inclusiveness into a symbol of enforced secularism, dishonesty and fear. Yes, fear of offending anyone, at any time, for any reason. It’s one of the sacraments of the perversely misdirected American civic religion of Tolerance.

Even with the growing list of Christmas-citing retailers, the vast majority of advertisers still use the politically correct “happy holidays.” An observer from Mars might be forgiven for not guessing that 90 percent of Americans, regardless of their religion or lack of it, celebrate Christmas.

Christmas shopping traditionally accounts for between 25 and 40 percent of retail sales, and a lion’s share of annual profits. The day after Thanksgiving marks the beginning of the Christmas shopping season. It’s called Black Friday because it’s when many firms finally get into the black. You’d think that retailers might be just a bit more gracious about naming the holiday that’s putting the tinsel on their trees and the coins in their larder.

The whole idea of gift giving at Christmas comes from acknowledging that God gave His Son as a gift to all people, and expects us to treat each other accordingly. Retailers who refuse to call it Christmas but still want Christmas dollars are betting that Americans will continue to give extravagantly, forever, without the deeper reason. They think that they can remove the heart without harming the patient.

That might work if there’s a spare heart around, but not if the replacement is a lump of coal. How long will Americans give so freely, unmotivated by acknowledging the Greatest Gift of All?

When radio and TV commercials began November pitches with “during the holidays” and ended with “happy holidays,” it sort of made sense. The “holiday season” is Thanksgiving to New Year’s and everything in between, including Hanukkah, and the Reason for the Season on December 25. African-Americans celebrate the recent, secular addition of Kwanzaa, beginning Dec. 26, but they don’t confuse it with Christmas.

The Grinch himself must have smiled when some advertisers began using the singular opener, “This holiday” to push their wares. Everybody knows which “holiday” it is, especially retailers, who pray that people will buy with mad abandon and pull us out of this recession.

In the Chronicles of Narnia series, C.S. Lewis wrote of “the deeper magic” of belief in Christ that transcends the mythic magic of life all around us. The thin gruel of “happy holidays” may not be magical enough to inspire the kind of giving to each other that America will need to get through the current crisis.

Perhaps it’s time to call on the deeper magic: Merry Christmas to one and all!

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Robert Knight is a Senior Writer/Correspondent for Coral Ridge Ministries and a Senior Fellow for the American Civil Rights Union.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.

Yes the truth hurts 7 sticks.
Poor 7 sticks. Looks like he read something he knew was the truth.

Poor man.

Under the Radar
Gosh! Bryant Gumbel became an authority on society and I never noticed! I guess it came about when he got an HBO slot -- right in there with "Taxi Cab Confidential", et.al.

I pay attention
to clerks that say Happy Holidays, just as i still won't buy French products after they wouldn't support Reagan's retaliation on Quaddafi. There is altogether too much PC in this country. I am offended by people who are easily offended.

who YOU goin to believe

7sticks or your lying eyes and ears? Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...

Pistol
I also pay attention to them in the Secular Humanist paradise here in Portland, Maine, and I notice a significant difference in the spirit of those stores whose employees respond less than faovrably to my return greeting of "Merry Christmas".

What a sad way to go through this life.

Full Circle
At the peak of our politically correct adherence, we refrained from saying "Merry Christmas," lest we offend a non-believer. More to the point, it is now we the believers who should be offended by petty few who delight in our silence.

Oh, and let me add "MERRY CHRISTMAS" to all.

Christmas
It is sad to notice that so many Americans have been duped into believing that there really is nothing like "freedom of speech" in the country. That personal responsibility is no longer in vogue and that any utterance which might make a liberal cringe must be stricken from the language.

I've noticed from the beginning of the war against Christianity, which includes the annual skirmish known as the war on Christmas, that there is no concern whatsoever for Christians and other conservatives who respect Christmas when they are insulted, degraded and embarrassed by the rude exclusion of Merry Christmas from the language with the meaningless "holiday" reference.

I note also that the liberals still call Thanksgiving Thanksgiving; the 4th of July is still the 4th of July, Valentine's Day is still Valentine's Day, But Christmas must now be called "the holiday." How ridiculous. And how foolish of us it is to surrender to those whose only concern is the expansion of their power over all the rest of us.

The7Sticks Commitment Papers
Bob Knight is only saying what the vast majority of Americans believe about the assault on God, Religion and of course that must include Christmas. AND will some responsible relative of “The7Sticks” please have him committed before he does himself or someone else harm?
MWC

Personally,
I blame Bing.

And
Those lousy clerks! How dare they wish me a 'happy holiday'? If we boycott their stores enough maybe they'll lose their jobs. Now THAT's a Merry Christmas! When their kids are crying for socks they'll wish they had ridden the good will train.

Bigotry dressed up as “sensitivity”
I was the other at a very well known Pet Store and I heard that the manager told one of her workers not to greet the patrons with “Merry Christmas,” instead with the generic and senseless “Happy Holiday” for fear some might get offended. Since I was close to them and since I am not a “political correct” stooge, I decided to speak up, and politely but firm I told the manager something like this:

“Excuse me manager, I am a patron of this store for many years. I enjoy coming here because the food I need for my five dogs are of a good quality and affordable. However, I cannot believe that you are buying this lie that people are being offended by hearing the phrase “Merry Christmas?” Let me tell you something lady, I am offended right now, and I know many, many people who comes to your store to buy food for their dogs and cats, and guess what, they expect to be greeted with a Merry Christmas!”

At this point the manager felt very embarrassed and tried to apologize; finally she said that she was not making this policy but it came directly from Corp. At that moment the worker intervened and asked me “Sir, are not you offended if I tell you “Merry Christmas”? I responded with a categorically “No,” he then told me “Merry Christmas,” I responded back with another “Merry Christmas” to him and the manager.

Somebody might say that she might have jeopardized her job if she had done something oppose to what corp. told her to do. That is not true, because when I returned later another day another manager greeted me saying “Merry Christmas.” If this was a policy change or something that this manager decided to do by himself, I do not know.

The point is that is there are people in high places in Corp. America who by ignorance and bigotry are killing the very reason of Christmas and the freedom of people to say “Merry Christmas.”

Therefore, I want to say to everybody “Merry Christmas”…if you are offended, well “Merry Christmas” again..

Who said there was a war on Christmas?
I hear Merry Christmas all the time on what you call the main stream media news shows. I think Bill Oreiley and Sean Hannity are lying to you about this.
PS I am liberal and I am a Christian. Another lie they are telling you is that these two things are mutually exclusive.



THE MIRACLE MEANING OF CHRISTMAS
Continued...His miracles born of love and his radically different emphasis on the profound principles of living in right relationship with the Father were perceived as a serious threat by the apostate religious leaders of that day, the Pharisees and the Sadducees. So, ultimately they decided to murder him to erase the unbearable tension between his obvious greatness and their relative pusillanimity. However, his murder on "the old rugged cross," set up by rigged court proceedings, made possible the enormous benefits of the atonement for all mankind willing to meet the terms of the divine covenant of salvation (Luke 9:23).

The Son's (Logos') incarnation as Jesus was not temporary but rather eternal. A divine being, a true God, permanently divested himself of his divine level of function and all that goes with it to meet the needs of all mankind for a savior, a completely trustworthy teacher of divine truth and an advocate for us with the Father. That is by far the greatest and most powerful theological or philosophical concept in the universe and constitutes the real miracle meaning of Christmas.


Bio.........I am a former atheist. I have a degree in religion from Baylor University and graduate work in theology from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and also from Conservative Baptist Theological Seminary.

THE MIRACLE MEANING OF CHRISTMAS
The true meaning of Christmas is the most profound concept in the history of the universe. Before the incarnation of the divine being, the Logos, that we call Christmas, there were two divine beings in the heavenlies. One of them was in relation to the other as a human father is to his son, thus the names, God the Father and God the Son. When mankind was ready, the Father sent the Son to leave the unimaginable glories of heaven to be born of a virgin on earth as a real human baby. He was still the same divine being he had always been, however, his capabilities were limited by incarnation to those of a mere human being. He grew up in Israel as a normal boy would have then except that he was totally unselfish.

When he reached maturity, he began his teaching and healing ministry. Trying to convey the fact that he was the God who became a man proved extremely difficult then as now. But central to his message was the concept of a newly defined kind of love, divine love, unselfish love, holy love.

Noting the responses I get
I've made an effort to respond "Merry Christmas" everytime I get a Happy Holidays. So far, I estimate that 80 percent of the people I've done that with have smiled and said in reply "Merry Christmas, and thank you!" At work, I don't answer the phone Happy Holidays (truthfully, the name of our agency is so long, it would an extra breath to add Happy Holidays), but quite a few people calling in have said "Merry Christmas" to me and I respond in kind. They can fire me if they don't like it, but social work central tends to go with whatever the clients want and they seem to like me.

I greeted our visiting psychiatrist on Monday with Happy Hanukah (he's Jewish which we knew because he's been here before) and he grinned and responded "Merry Christmas to you and please give me directions to Santa Claus House." (I live 10 miles from North Pole, AK). So, I don't know who gets offended by Merry Christmas. Christopher Hitchens, I suppose. Obviously 7Sticks and Ranger. The rest of the human population doesn't seem to have an issue with it and some seem darned glad to hear it! I think this is an example of PC assuming something that wasn't true and trying to get the whole society to just go along. We're beating it back, folks, one Merry Christmas at a time.

Merry Christmas!

Don Juan
Two celebrations - one religious stemming from the Christian desire to honor the birth of Jesus and the other secular, probably growing from those old pagan celebrations. Christmas itself (as a celebration of Christ's birth) has nothing to do with the pagan ceremonies. They simply chose to meet at the same time everyone else met so that they would face less persecution.

Deal with it, and Merry Christmas from Jesus Christ the Savior.

Kathy, I think you're
missing the point.

It's not the news that causes people problems. It's those individuals or groups who, out of fear of offending some non-christian individual, act as though they don't even recognize the name of the holiday - as read in the title of this column.

It's something seen in the real world, not merely announced by the talking heads or pretty facades on radio and television. It's also something unlikely to be noticed by the people who might actually be offended by having someone say 'Merry Christmas' to them.

Ender
I get the premise of this idea that there is a war on Christmas. I do not think I missed the point. I understand that people say Happy Holiday so as not to offend others that may not celebrate Christmas. I as a christian do not find that such a big deal.I think christmas will always be and it is one of the most celebrated holidays. Just because a few people say Happy Holidays to include Hanukka does not really get my gears going as it does some Christians.

Merry Christmas, all!
Two days ago, I was in one of the local branches of Macy's (which is now twice removed from Zions Cooperative Mercantile Institution, which was a widespread chain in Utah), and after buying what I needed, the clerk said to me, "Happy holidays." I responded by saying, "Merry Christmas," and he then wished me a merry Christmas. I don't know if his first wish was at the directive of his management, but he semed glad to wish me a merry Christmas.

Love
For God so loved the world(that's you and me)that he gave his only son(Jesus Christ)that if you believe in him you will have everlasting life.Thank God for Chris!!!Without Christ there is no Christmas,and there are no truly happy holidays.Joy to the world the Lord has come.

It's a day off? "Oh Really"?
Will someone please explain to Don Juan that the X in X-Mas is taken from the Greek... Meaning Christ. He goes off about America's “National Holiday” CHRISTMAS being some sort of Pagan Festival and then wishes everyone a HPPY CHIST-MASS. Go figure?
MWC

Fabius Cunctator
Some of your posts look oddly familiar. That cut and paste option is a life saver isn't it?

What are you all afraid of?
Look, times change and people change it's a fact of life. Yes even religions change. Once upon a time the idea of giving gifts for a "birthday" for religious purposes was unacceptable to the Christian Church because celebrating birth and therefore fertility were pagan celebrations. If you will insist that things always stay the way they were then you shouldn't be out buying all those presents anyway, and you won't have to worry about the clerks at the register offending you with their PR. Or you can go out as usual, understand that nobody is trying to offend you and respond to their "Happy Holidays" with a smile and a "Merry Christmas". If your faith is strong it shouldn't be effected by two little words.

What are you all afraid of?
When all the OTHER VIRTUES in a crumbling civilization are gone, there is one and only one left... “Tolerance.” A pie is consumed one piece at a time and I for one am afraid the Christmas pie will be consumed by all you “Non-Believers.” Why don't you guys go and consume (destroy) a Secular Humanist pie?
Now that would be a blessing and the prayer-hearing God of the Bible would be pleases, I'm sure!
MWC

Merry Christmas!
Okay, let's examine this logically...

Merry adj,
Jolly and full of high-spirits; Festive and full of fun and laughter; Brisk; happy or showing enjoyment
Marked by or offering fun and gaiety; festive
Delightful; entertaining

Christmas n,
Designated a federal holiday by the Congress of the United states and President U.S. Grant in 1870 to fall on December 25th of each year.

so,
What I'm actually saying to you is;
Be full of high-spirits, festive and full of fun and laughter on December 25th

I can see how that would come off as offensive and hostile to some people...

Michael W.
I disagree, if you must simplify all the virtues, I would say that "tolerance" has been consumed by "believers" long ago. If you read some of the other threads you will see the kind of "tolerance" directed towards, atheists, liberals (no they are not the same thing), homosexuals, Jews or any other group of people that think or believe differently than the they do. I for one am not at all offended by Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Happy Hanukkah, or any other type of seasonal greeting. What's the point, everyone knows that the individual giving the greeting has all the best intentions in mind, regardless of the specific words used. People pushing on both sides of this debate really need to stop looking for evil intent where there clearly is none. They should all look into getting a hobby.

Merry Christmas

Hmmmm...
I don't detect any animosity against the majority celebrating Christmas among Buddhists, Hindus, Shinto-ites, even Muslims in America. They regard the "Happy Holidays" baloney as the steaming pile of unmentionableness it is.

But I do notice how often the crusade against Christmas is led by Jewish "freethinkers", often lawyers, and how timid and feeble are the protests against their fanatical intolerance from practitioners of Judaism.

(Burt Prelutsky being an honorable exception wih his famous tirade, "The Jewish Grinch Who Stole Christmas.)

Of course, that's one of the many things a Christian is not allowed to say in our diverse, vibrant, tolerant, mutually respectful Disunited States of Dementica. Way too "hateful"!

Consider
For those who object to "Merry Christmas," note that the U.S. Federal Holiday that falls on the 25th of December is officially designated, "Christmas Day." Thus, if you take that day as a holiday, you are observing Christmas.
And, for those who say that the greeting "Merry Christmas" is "exclusive, not inclusive" because not everyone is Christian, think about this. Jesus came to bring eternal salvation to "all mankind," and what could be more inclusive than that? If you don't believe, that is your privilege (or problem), but it doesn't make "Merry Christmas," and "exclusive" greeting.

Nollaig Shona Duit!

Christmas for Everyone
What is it about conservatives who can't come to terms with the FACT that we live in an increasingly pluralistic society?

Some folks treasure the traditional religious emphasis on Christmas, and more power to them. They can gather in their homes and churches and celebrate the occasion however they see fit. But many other Americans have a more secular approach to life, and hence to Christmas. And still others are members of other faiths who may like the fun and social aspects of the holiday but not identify with the religious aspects.

So let's stop with the nonsense of insisting that conservative Christian ideas, symbols, and language should be imposed on everyone as if they were manifestations of a quasi state religion. We can all agree that whatever our tradition or religious preference, Christmas is a wonderful opportunity for family and friends to reconnect and enjoy whatever aspects of the tradition they cherish.

johninoregon
So you're okay with secular symbols being imposed upon Christians so long as Christian symbols are kept out of sight and silent? How very equalitarian of you!

Do you see the discriminatory nature of that or are you too brainwashed to understand that in this pluralistic society we ALL have the right to use the public square and always have had that right!

Christmas Haters
Any time a column is written about atheism,Christainity or homosexuality,the same vermin creep out from the depths of sewers around the country.

They are so happy to shout to the world how they hate us who try to do the right thing .They tell us how much more intelligent they are than we who believe in our Creator.

It is odd that the same people who do not believe in God also are the same ones who push every kind of diviant behavior that has brought us to ruin in this country.

God gave everyone a free will. He does not try to force Himself on anyone. No one here tries to force anyone else to see things as we do. It is the nay-sayers who do just that.

They will say such awful things about us and what we believe,then when we try to defend it,they are so quick to say,"That is so not Christian-like." They get off on that.

We just celebrated Christ's birthday,whether some of you like it or not. You can celebrate a holiday soon. We will not bother you or condemn you. It is April Fool's Day. How un-Christian of me!!!

Johninoregon
Did you take the day off yesterday?

How's that log in your eye workin' out for ya?

Spare us the patronizing lecture of how 'pluralistic' we are. So long as the Federal Government continues to acknowledge Decemer 25th as Christmas Day (which btw you may freely petition the President and the Congress to change, if you're really that serious about your pluralism), and the larger culture as well (even unto protesting the Post Office's decision a few years ago to forego the traditional Christmas stamp with the result that the stamp was issued after all) we as a nation and as a culture will continue to celebrate Christmas.

You, sir, need to get over yourself.

Rowly
Merry Christmas!

I do believe the nay-sayers, Scrooges and all around whiners about Christmas are the way they are and do what they do because they have an inferiority complex. "Notice me!" they scream, not knowing, or in some cases refusing to know, that the God of heaven and earth has indeed noticed them, and sent His Son for them no less than for anyone else. Their very self-image is all wrapped up in the number and volume of the ways they can shout "There is no God, no Boss of Me!"

Pity the foo' who says in his heart "There is no God".

AliveInHim
Merry Christmas to you also,and A Happy New Year!!

We Christians are like the little boy in the schoolyard who has to face the bully every morning. The bully waits behind the bushes like the coward he is and pounces on the child,usually taking his lunch money or just to beat him up.

Sooner or later,someone with integrity must step up and put an end to Christian-bashing. We cannot wait for the rabid atheists to feel shame. We must stand up for ourselves....as un-Christian as that sounds.

Contradictions
Rowly:”….put an end to Christian-bashing. And then in the very next sentence:”….rabid atheists.” Then your post made at 3:46 on the 26th “…the same vermin creep” and of course the ever so played out remark about April 1st being an atheist holiday. It seems your feelings are easily hurt by atheists and you want us to stop picking on you but you don’t really set much of an example, do you? Such blatant hypocrisy takes all of the weight out of anything you say, regardless of the subject. As far as the Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays debate my 2 cents are this; everyone whining about being offended by either statement need to grow up. It is clear that regardless of the specific words used the intent is nothing but good, so get over it.

I would like to enquire about the “deviant behavior” that we atheists are pushing to ruin the country. We account for something like 3% of the population; I think you may be giving us a little too much credit. If you are referring to the jacked up Obama politics and similar policies, I must point out that with something like 80% of the population it was Christians, not atheists, Jews, Muslims, or Homosexuals that put him and every other policy maker in their position.

Disclaimer: before I am attacked for bad facts, those percentages are only approximations, but are accurate enough.



Knight is right
There is obviously not enough commercialism around Christmas. The idea that business' would so miss Jesus' message that the worth of a person can be measured in the amount that he spends is just amazing in this day and age. Don't people remember when Jesus went into the church and commended the money-lenders.

Seriously, is there anything more pathetic than people who look for reasons to resent people in the name of Jesus? Maybe, but it is hard to imagine what.

Lon writes
The idea that business' would so miss Jesus' message that the worth of a person can be measured in the amount that he spends is just amazing in this day and age.

Me: The idea that just maybe the reason people gladly give gifts at Christmas as a reflection of God's Gift of Love to all of us (or at least in of the spirit of the season of love as secularists define it) seems to escape you. As to the amount of money spent, or the gifts given/received, are you implying there ought to be a limit on how much others may do with their money? Do I detect a shade of resentment toward those who can spend/give more than you? Did you forego receiving gifts this year? Didn't think so. I'm willing to guess you were generous within your means to others, as well. In which case, silence is probably your best and proper response.

Don't people remember when Jesus went into the church and commended the money-lenders.

Me: The reason He drove the moneychangers out was because they were fraudulent in their dealings with the people, not that they were there to begin with. Had they run their business honestly there would have been no problem; they would have been serving a legitimate need.

Try again?

Fabius Cunctator
As indeed they already have in our area. Now that 'the holiday' is safely over, we can now hear all sorts of ads touting New Year deals through January.

Not to mention the coron..oops, I mean the upcoming inauguration of The One. :/

Contradictions
According the ABC polls Atheists represent 4% of the population and according the the last census, Homosexuals represent 02.1 % of the population. Are you claiming to be both a Homosexual and an Atheist?

As for the “Deviant Behavior,” I would say that the DEMAND made by the homosexual activists (in their 1993 march of Washington DC) to wit: "Passage and implementation of “Graduated” age-of-consent laws" was not in the best interest of America. For the less informed, that means adults having sex with children!

96% of this nation believes in something greater than themselves (86% in a Prayer hearing God). 52 % of the voters drank the Kool-Aid and went to the pools but that means that 48% of the voters were NOT fooled.

What you pushers of “Deviant Behavior” fail to realize is this: ANY product of the Liberal Democratic Machine in Chicago will through you far-left loons under the bus, as soon as it becomes convenient! In fact, given some of the President-Elects cabinet picks thus far, I would say that process may be underway already?

In any event, when that day comes... will you refer to it as a “Contradiction?”
MWC

RepAt
My comment was not aimed at anyone in particular,but since you replied,I will do the same.I believe liberals,atheists and other leftists can all be put in the same category.

People who think like most atheists, DID put Obama in office. Conservative Christians wanted no part of him. I still do not.

If you think our society has improved in the last several decades since liberals started having their way,more power to you. You must be elated at the decadence we have today.

If you know of anything Christians have done to bring about the filth and low morals we are seeing today,please name them. I doubt you can name one.

Our worst fault is not being tougher and standing up for what we believe in more than we have. The Christian-way is to turn the other cheek. That is like going to a gun fight with a slingshot.

No Christian I know of is trying to get rid of atheists and shut them up. The same cannot be truthfully said about the other side. I say live and let live. They will be judged by our Father,not by me.

Michael W. Contradictions
As for being a homosexual I will humor you no more but to just say no, you being simpleminded as you are will make your own assumptions.

As for being a liberal it seems literacy is not your strong point. In the post that you so quickly attacked I wrote “If you are referring to the jacked up Obama politics and similar policies” I really don’t think those sound like the words of a liberal Obama supporter, but as I said earlier, you go ahead and make your own assumptions.

In regards to the demands made by homosexual activists, those were, as you pointed out with your stats (2.1%) the vocal MINORITY and by no way represent the views of any group. If we apply your reasoning, as weak as it is, I can then blame all Christians for the acts of Cavalry Baptist Church in Topeka KS. For the less informed they are the pieces of garbage that protest military funerals. Would you like to be held accountable for their actions? I doubt it. So do not hold all atheists, or any group for that matter, for the actions of a vocal minority.

Of all the brilliant things you have said this is my favorite “52 % of the voters drank the Kool-Aid and went to the pools” the Kool-Aid huh? To me this sounds like a very lame, however typical, play on a popular African American stereotype.

So, from your statements I have concluded that YOU are; simpleminded, illiterate, and a racist.

Rowly, Contradictions Part 1
Because the majority of your response was based on the ever so popular belief that all atheists are liberal I will first dispel with that myth. Atheism is a lack of belief in the supernatural, the end. Any other views an atheist may have came about from other sources. In my personal case, I believe in the 2nd amendment, despise abortion, voted for McCain, and I drive a big gas guzzling pick-up, so a liberal I am not. Also not being on the extreme right does not put someone on the left by default. With some issues their actually is a grey area, on others there is not.

I’m not really sure what you meant by “people who think like atheists” putting Obama in office. But as I said earlier, thinking like an atheist and thinking like a liberal are not necessarily the same thing. If you were referring to the religious beliefs (or lack there-of) I assure you that nowhere near a majority of the U.S. population thinks like an atheist and a majority did elect Obama. So I will stick to my previous statements, atheists did not elect Obama, we have nowhere near the numbers to accomplish that.

Rowly, Contradictions Part 2
I never said that society has improved so that argument is mute point. However, can you provide an instance that atheism has brought forth the filth you speak of? But before you answer please remember what an atheist is, just a non-believer, nothing else. Just doing things that go against religious teachings does not make someone an atheist, if that were true there would be no need for confession. Being a poor believer does not make someone a non-believer by default.

“No Christian I know of is trying to get rid of atheists and shut them up. The same cannot be truthfully said about the other side.” I would be willing to bet that you don’t know any atheists trying to get rid of Christians either, however there are individuals on both sides guilty of this and neither is right. On my side are the obnoxious loudmouths that put signs up at Christmas time, on yours are missionaries and this bald guy I work with.

I agree 100% with you on this, live and let live.

Happy New Year!

Good Points RepAT
RepAT,
If I made a mistake regarding your “Sexual Orientation,” I sincerely apologize. However, when you seek to imply that TRUE Christians as engaging is Bad Behavior (God Hates ....) as opposed to ANYONE who engages in “Unhealthy” sexual practices (read Bad behavior) then I had to wonder? In any event, your new secular emperor WILL through you 4% under the bus when the time comes and you may take that to the bank! BTW... I read the last chapter in “The Book” and WE WIN !
MWC

RepAt
I would say we have a stand-off and that is fine with me.

Happy New Year to you also!

Michael W.
Because I am not one, I can not really say what a TRUE Christian is. Therefore I will not imply that they are doing anything, only that atheists are not necessarily engaging in these practices either. Bad people do bad thing, good people do good, sometimes they switch, it's far too complicated to make assumptions.

I must say again Obama is still not my "secular emperor" I didn't vote for him and I am sure he will throw us all under the bus. I will support him only in that he is my Commander In Chief, as unfortunate as that is (Iran and Pakistan here I come).

Apology accepted and Happy New Years

Michael W.
Oh yeah...Just in case you took my name calling personal, don't. Sometimes the 'ole' temper gets flared up when you think someone called you gay. I'm sure you understand. No hard feelings.

AliveinHim
That people like to give gifts out of the joy of the season is a wonderful thing. That people would go to stores looking to see who would insult them by wishing them a happy holiday is just about the opposite of giving gifts out of the joy of the season.

In fact it is hard to imagine how Christians could be more insultingly parodied than by portraying them as people who would be offended at being wished a happy holiday because it did not sufficiently acknowledge that Christmas is more important than other holidays.

If I read that in a book I would suspect the author of being an anti-christian bigot. The sad thing is that it is people who think of themselves as christians who are insulting christians in this way.

Do you really not see the difference between the joy of the season, and the idea that people should be on the lookout for clerks saying happy holidays rather than merry christmas?

RepAT Re: No Hard Feelings
I'm rather New to this forum, but understand tempers on both sides flair when the 3-C's are used to gain attention. As it happens, I have met Robert Knight and think he is right, when it comes to “The War on Christians” AND Christmas.

If you consult the “Humanist Manifesto,” you will see that a number of prominent Atheists of the 1930's and later in the 1973 revision, signed off on the notion that “Ethics Are Situational” and of course that there is NO prayer-hearing God.

Most Atheists I have talked to believe in a kind of “Creative Anarchy.” If it feels go do it, if there is no God, then everyone can decide for themselves what's write and wrong” (as opposed to society as a whole). It seems to me to be a handy “Consequence-avoidance” ideology.

In my reality, America needs the Ten Commandments and would require eight of them, even if there were no organized religions! So, lets agree to disagree on whether there is a Prayer-Hearing God, on how an Atheist can support a Political Party that is opposed to Atheism (by reason of their platform), and that it IS “Unhealthy” (according to the CDC) to engage in Homosexual behavior. Finally, why we must insure that tax supported public schools do not “Indoctrinate” children into believing that it is OK to be Gay?
MWC

Michael W. It seems we agree alot.
On the healthfulness of homosexuality, it is undoubtedly an unhealthy practice, and aside from basic health concerns and how procreation works, sexuality of all kinds should be the responsibility of the parents. I would have serious issues were one on my children to learn that homosexuality is “OK” in school. However, I would also have issues if they learned, Christian Creation, unless of course they were also taught other religious creation theories as well as evolution and the big-bang.

Regarding those “creative anarchy” atheists you speak of, just like we discussed good and bad Christians, there are good and bad atheists as well. It’s unfortunate that those are the ones that represent your experience with non-believers. This brings me to how I can support the more religious of political parties. Any GOOD atheist should promote secularism, and I could not promote secularism if I made my political decisions based on religion. I guess it’s just a bummer for me that the party I think has better politics also happens to be much more religious. In-order to TRULY believe in separation of church and state one must actually separate church and state, or “practice what you preach” if you will.

As far as “consequence-avoidance” ideology, if the consequences are TRULY there then they can NOT be avoided, so IF there are atheists out there that choose not to believe just to avoid the consequences, well then they’re an idiot.

I must say I do agree with the “Ethics are Situational” argument in the Humanist Manifesto. However, I believe them to be more relative to time than situation. Take slavery as an example. Today we know this to be completely unethical, however at the time it was not, at-least by their standards. One example of situational ethics, killing another man is un-ethical, both common-sense and the commandments say so. But what happens when that man is in your home and could hurt your family, the ethics of killing have just become situational.


Killing in Self Defense is not Murder
I believe that killing someone in “Self Defense” is not Murder, RepAt. Abortion IS Murder, unless you are attempting to save the life of the mother.

Slavery was a moral wrong that had to be abolished, if our Constitution was to have any meaning. Abortion is to our generation, what slavery was to the abolitionists of the Civil War days. It is a moral wrong and therefore “Unethical” as well.

In my world, if something is immoral, then it follows that it is unethical. To a Secular humanist, lying, cheating and stealing may be ethical in certain situations. That's why I object to “Situational Ethics.” I fail to see how we can maintain a “Civilized” society if we are unable to trust our neighbors?

Their was a southern comedian back in the 1960's who said “Think about this:” if you believe in something greater than your self, that's understandable, but if you believe in NOTHING, why that's really “VAST” (punch line)... or words to that effect. He was a bit like Jonathan Winters or the Robin Williams of your generation. Well, That's it... Have a Happy New Year!
MWC

Michael W.: On "Situational Ethics"
Michael, you are absolutely right about abortion, it is murder and I agree about the life of the mother. But understand that once you put saving the life of the mother in the equation, the ethics have become situational. Abortion is unethical “unless”… The wording of “Situational Ethics” gives it a negative reputation but in practice we see it everyday used by people of every faith or lack there of.

As far as Secular Humanists, I will give you lying, but cheating and stealing are unethical regardless of the situation. But don’t the majority of parents lie to their children every Christmas season about the existence of Santa Clause? I did, and in the “situation” I don’t believe it to be unethical. The trick is that the “situations” must remain constant and accepted by society in-order for “Situational Ethics” to be ethical.

I’ll stop bugging you now, Happy New Year!
JDT

Of course there is a Santa Claus
Didn't your parents take you to see “Miracle on 34th Street?” Chris Kringle was said to be the One and Only Santa by a New York Court! Sorry, I could not resist a little Christmas
humor... Happy New Year... JDT

BTW... If you ever change your mind about there being a Prayer-Hearing God, please say a prayer for that “7sticks” Bozo...
MWC

The holiday dares not speak its name?
Robert Knight, where do you live?
Your complaint is the result of being myopic. What happens when you have friends who are Jewish, Hindu, Moslem, New Age Spiritual Pagans (yes, there are such), Buddhists, Atheists, and others who don't celebrate Xmas* but DO celebrate the year end holidays? While I would agree that there's nothing wrong with wishing them a "Happy Whatever their holiday is" and I do that, bit I also have friends who are Jewish, Buddhist, Moslem and Pagan, that wish ME a "Merry Christmas", but I would never wish them one. That's why "Happy Holidays" is so very appropriate. Maybe if you lived in a large metropolitan area where you have that kind of diverse community you'd understand the problem better. Hasn't that ever occurred to you?

*: Xmas, by the way, is NOT pronounced "eksmas" but is pronounced "Christmas." The X is NOT removing the name of Christ, it is using the historical X that is the fist letter in the spelling of Christ's name in Greek (X??st?s) as is still used and done in many of the more traditional Christian Churches. I love using the word "Xmas" whenever I type because it irritates only the ignorant. I hope all you good readers had a very fine Xmas!

What Jiovanni does not know?
My I presume that Jiovanni is not your name and that you DO realize that Jesus was a Jew?
May I also presume that you do not know that Bob Knight lives and works in the Washington DC area (a very diverse urban area)? May I further presume that, if YOU visit Washington DC, you will quickly discover that this nation was not established by Pagans, for Pagans and that the overwhelming majority of our citizens are CHRISTIANS?

In any event, here is what BEN STEIN has to say on the subject: “I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees. It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto.”

Let's try and remember Jiovanni that we (a majority Christian nation) #1 liberate the Nazi concentration camps, #1 push the U.N. to establish a homeland for Jews everywhere and #3 Christians Americans are the number one defender of Israel at the U.N... So leave us to celebrate our “Christmas” holiday in piece there should be nothing wrong with retailers wishing their customers a “Merry Christmas.”
Happy New Year!
MWC
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.