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Friday, July 25, 2008
Robert Knight :: Townhall.com Columnist
A Lady Under Fire
by Robert Knight
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Elaine Donnelly reported for duty Wednesday. She went to a battlefield where most men who agree with her were AWOL.

Like her mentor, Phyllis Schlafly, she did not let others’ cowardice or indifference interfere with what she needed to do. Mrs. Donnelly, President of the Center for Military Readiness, told the truth at risk of ridicule or worse, keeping the faith that telling the truth matters no matter what.

Donnelly was one of two witnesses testifying before a House subcommittee in support of the military’s ban on homosexuality. The other three witnesses were pro-gay, as were most of the questions from the lawmakers.

Surrounded by hostile faces in the gallery, hostile faces of the liberal congressmen who dominated the “hearing,” and the skeptical faces of reporters from liberal media, Mrs. Donnelly listened stoically while other witnesses trashed her personally during their testimony.  Because of the rules, she was not able to respond until called late in the proceedings for her own testimony.

When she got her turn, Mrs. Donnelly carefully laid out the case for the law that Congress passed in 1993 and which has been upheld by multiple courts. She explained that Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is not actually the law, but a watered-down policy dreamed up by Bill Clinton’s Pentagon staff, something the media continue to get wrong. She also explained why allowing open homosexuality in the military would have a multitude of effects, up to and including a probable increase in sexual harassment and sexual assaults, and a profoundly detrimental effect on the morale of service people who hold traditional values.

Amid the scribbling scribes was Dana Milbank, a Washington Post columnist who specializes in character assassination of conservatives and even Democrats who get in the way of his preferred political figures. (Ask Hillary.)

In the July 23 edition, he used his entire Page A-3 column, “Sorry We Asked, Sorry You Told,” to paint Mrs. Donnelly as a clownish figure who “amused” lawmakers.  He wrote, “It was tempting to think that Donnelly had been chosen by Democrats to sabotage the case against open military service for homosexuals. But Republicans had consented to the witness panel….”  He might also have mentioned that Donnelly has a sterling reputation earned over years of public service, but that would have conflicted with his purpose:  to discredit political adversaries through ridicule.

Speaking of the GOP, the most outspoken Republican on the panel was Christopher Shays (Conn.), a reliable water carrier for homosexual activism.  Shays denounced the military’s DADT policy as “unpatriotic” and even “absolutely cruel.” Milbank reports this comment while noting that Shays’ voice was “rising with Yankee indignation.”  That must make pushing open homosexuality on the military a righteous cause.

Milbank began his column by sarcastically introducing Mrs. Donnelly only as someone “who has been working for years to protect our fighting forces from the malign influence of women.”

Donnelly, who served on the Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Armed Services and a presidential commission examining the role of women in the military, has worked for years promoting policies that support military families, and resisting the liberal campaign to lift the combat exemption for women. To Milbank, who apparently wants to shove our daughters into harm’s way as soon as possible, that’s “maligning” women.

Milbank goes on to describe Donnelly’s testimony and responses to questions as “an extraordinary exhibition of rage.” Anyone who has seen Mrs. Donnelly under fire knows that she does not do “rage.” What she does do is to demolish the other side’s arguments with logic and documented materials. She also went out of her way to recognize the service to their country by co-panelists on the other side. Every inch a lady, albeit a lady tough as nails, Mrs. Donnelly does not sink to the level of her opponents.

Milbank even criticized the way Donnelly dressed, saying she was “severe in a black jacket with a flag pin.”  Well, at least he got the flag pin right. The suit was Navy blue. And she wore pearls and a pink blouse. Now that’s severe.   

Then Milbank quoted a number of liberal Democrats who were aghast at Donnelly for  daring to disagree with their plan to homosexualize the military: “Just bonkers” and “dumb” (Rep. Vic Snyder, D-Ark.), “embarrassed” (Rep. Carol Shea-Porter, D-N.H.), “shocked” (Rep. Ellen Tauscher, D-Calif.)  It’s the constituents of these “congresspersons” who should be shocked and embarrassed. 

Milbank also threw in: “At the witness table with Donnelly, retired Navy Capt. Joan Darrah, a lesbian, rolled her eyes in disbelief.” The Hill, a newspaper that specializes in covering Capitol Hill, also reported in its far superior story on the hearing, “Lawmakers grill critic of gays in military,” that Tauscher repeatedly rolled her eyes during Donnelly’s testimony.

Well, of course. Eye-rolling is standard procedure for some gay activists and their allies confronted with inconvenient truths. And projecting hysteria and anger on to conservative opponents is also par for the course.

I’ve experienced this sort of projection myself.  A few years ago I was debating the topic of “gay marriage” at an Ivy League college with a prominent lesbian activist. At one point, she lost her cool, got off message and started loudly denouncing the Bush Administration’s Iraq policies and people like me. Finally, the moderator reigned her in.  I never raised my voice. I stayed on point. Afterward, when we talked in a student lounge, she exclaimed that she didn’t know what had happened, but that “both of us just started yelling at each other.” No, she had been yelling at me. She projected her anger on to me, which is something I see certain gay activists doing quite often, accusing their opponents of hate where there is none.

The Post’s Dana Milbank projected on to Mrs. Donnelly the “rage” felt by gay activists at the hearing.

This is what military personnel who oppose homosexuality as immoral can expect to face in a new climate of politically correct enforcement of pro-homosexual sentiments if the ban is lifted.

After the hearing, Mrs. Donnelly took Milbank’s and her opponents’ comments in stride.  “I know what it’s like to be bullied by powerful men. I kept my composure,” she said. “What they’ve done is to make my main point, which is that if the ban is lifted, people who believe in traditional sexual morality will be abused and have no recourse, no defenders.”

That pretty much sums up the hearing itself, at which most of the Republicans fled and none challenged the assertions of the pro-gay witnesses and the liberal lawmakers who attacked Donnelly.  Other than her co-panelist, retired Army Ranger Brian Jones, who also did a creditable job in his testimony, Donnelly stood alone.

Other commitments prevented my attending the hearing on Wednesday.  I figured I would later write a piece on how the media have behaved. In retrospect, I should have carved out time for the hearing. Peter Sprigg, a Family Research Council vice president, found time in his schedule to be there. Given the gravity of this issue, lots of people should have been there.

A brave lady like Elaine Donnelly should not be left to the tender mercies of Christopher Shays, Ellen Tauscher and Dana Milbank.

Then again, it’s Shays, Tauscher and Milbank who might feel the need to stack the deck against people as formidable as Mrs. Donnelly and Sgt. Jones.

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About The Author

Robert Knight is a Senior Writer/Correspondent for Coral Ridge Ministries and a Senior Fellow for the American Civil Rights Union.
 
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I've been through
the ringer with white people, with men...simply because I'm black and female.
But I will NEVER concede to hate men and white people because of the various levels of abuse I've dealt with over a lifetime.
And sometimes superhuman patience is required of any of us who gay, black, female...a patience which is underappreciated.
Dukas, your beef isn't healthy. Expected, given your experience. But you want to take it out on the whole who didn't do it to you and make all pay for it.
That isn't right.
Straight men patronize a LOT of sex trade, even with little girls. And black men could be construed as very sexually irresponsible too.
You going to write them off as still worthy of Jim Crow discrimination?
Because Jim Crow WAS instituted and enforced based on black SEXUALITY, color was simply an easier way of achieving it.
Extending similar laws to gay people because of the perception of THEIR promiscuity or irresponsibility, WITHOUT supporting them in institutions like marriage is unfair and unjustified.
Imagine what our society would have been like without Jim Crow ever happening. Imagine the same freedom for gay people.
We were never a poorer society because of equal freedom and justice.


dukas and czarownica
You have shown that you've got the stereotypes down.

czaro: priests abused females as well as males. The issue is about repression of sexuality and proximity, not sexual orientation.

And dukas: low self esteem can manifest itself in promiscuity. Gay children's esteem is the most repressed and attacked. So is that of females.

Anorexia is a byproduct of the unrealistic standards of thinness. It may not be anything new, but it's an issue newly discussed realistically.
We have unrealistic standards of sexuality concerning gay folks. If there are negative byproducts of that, it's not suprising.

When realistic and positive approaches to gay children are fostered, a healthy esteem emerges.
Your generation was NEVER invested in learning the full conclusion of what acceptance of the reality of homosexuality would be like. And the results are in where and it's positive. Acceptance is new, so not everything is known, but ENOUGH is to conclude that the hysteria over homosexuality is unfounded.
YOUR experience, while I will not contradict it...reveals the very reason why gay and straight children have to be educated on what orientation means.

Repression, threat, and violence against gay persons are anathema and would be to anyone, to be healthy sexually,whatever their orientation.

in Congressional proceedings...
such as the hearing on DADT, Elaine Donnelly had NO facts, no evidence and her approach was to advance stereotypes and misinformation. She had no business doing that. And she DID insult the professionals who knew the CURRENT culture of the military by inferring they didn't have the professional ability to complete their missions and duties in the presence of gay people.

Her inference that gay people can't comport themselves insulted the gay servicemembers in the room alongside her.
She had no business coming in like that. She wasn't mistreated, she was treated with MORE respect than she was SHOWING with her testimony.

Why should anyone put up with defamation? Why is HER behavior justified? She was unprepared because SHE was lazy. She relied on extremely dated material and didn't do her research thoroughly. She got called on her inability to show that her information was valid beyond opinion.

I say again, the military cannot allow servicemembers to concede to prejudice. I expect them to be able to overcome that to succeed in their mission, to say they can't or gay people can't in each other's presence DOES insult the professional expectations we and they should have for our military.

Dukas - great letter.
I often have wondered why such a vocal group of gays seem compelled to be clergymen and military. It seems to me that DADT is very similar to the vow of celibacy that Catholic priests take - it is uslually ignored. And look what happened to the Catholic Church when they let gays become priests. Our military are stressed enough, they don't need PC added to their burdens.

Center of Military Readiness
Can someone tell me who in the heck who is behind the Center for Military Readiness and writes this woman's paycheck?

Liberal Discrimination
The left are the discriminators now and have been for years. The left are the ones who will not let an invited guest speak at our colleges if he is not singing their tune.

All the news shows,except on the Fox News Channel discriminate daily against conservatives. No mainstream news show has an equal number of 'right' and 'left' guests,EVER.

If they have one conservative panel member,there are three or four leftist to silence him. Plus the left-wing moderator.

If any nay-sayers would like to challenge my assertions, name the show or butt out.


Compulsions and urges can be controled
Those that say they have no choice being homosexual are either lazy, satisfied, or too filled with compulsions, urges and guilt to stop.
I consciously chose my sexual orientation. Having runaway from home at 12yrs old, immediately swept up by the old johns who haunted the bus stations and streets. By the time I was 17 I consciously choose to leave the gay life style. I thought it was wrong. I’m 65 now, never looked back and don’t get tingles down my leg when Obama speaks.
Most of today’s gay crowd were molested into it either through flattery, money or compulsion. The first couple of sexual liaisons we have as children usually develop our sexual appetite. That’s why it is wrong to preach homosexuality to young children in our public school system. It is a sexual exploitation and molestation of a child’s mind.
Do the salesmen of the gay life style actually believe we are born with the desire to wear the opposite sex’s clothes? That is not a genetic, physical impulse, it is purely an emotional desire based on a uncontrolled compulsion. Compulsion creates urge. Homosexuality reflects disease when it is pushed onto the main stream.
One is totally misconstruing the truth when they say gay is an orientation, and not a sex thing. Of course it is a sex thing.. To have sex in public baths with many strangers in one night, is a compulsion not an orientation breed into the fabric or our inheritance. One is not born to dash into the closest urinal and tap their foot. It is a choice.
Elaine Donnelly is a great lady, and closer to the truth then any of the fools that call her names. Singlehanded and through a minefield of insults she made her point clear.
And I hope my point is clear, the left is stupid, selfish, and lies destructively.

Elaine Donnelly
I watched most of the hearing on C-SPAN today about DADT. I was familiar with Mrs.Donnelly,as I have seen her on several shows in the past,but did not recall her name,until I saw her again today.

There may be discrimination towards homosexuals in some places,but let me tell you,it is nothing compared to how this lady was mistreated. It was an inquisition that the lowest form of humanity would not have had to endure. Osama Bin Laden would have fared better.

The entire panel was loaded for bear,save one or two Republicans who asked her questions and allowed her to answer them. Chris Shays,a Republican was one of the worst offenders.

They would ask her a question and when she tried to answer,they would talk over her or fire another question while she was trying to answer. I don't think one Democrat let her answer one question. She kept her cool and stayed polite,through it all.

She was invited to appear and should have been shown the courtesy shown to anyone else. It is just another instance where conservatives are told to just sit down and shut up.

If you are conservative,you are shown no respect. If you are a Christian conservative you can be treated like dirt and no one cares. We are now about the only ones left that it is politically correct to discriminate against with impunity.

just for a moment or two
Can anyone here remember when they 'agreed' with their HETEROSEXUALITY? When they chose to let nature take it's course and relate to who they were attracted to?

NONE of us chooses our sexual orientation. But behaving the way our orientation wills us, IS normal. And in this huge, vast world, homosexuality has no exception in all of human history. We should be USED to it by now. Some cultures are, some refuse to be.
And not all responded to it with fear, distrust and violence.
The Bible's directives for many things are barbaric and reactionary.
And very inconsiderate of the natural variables of gender.
Think for a moment, that when a gay person ever has the opportunity to offer their experience, it's EXACTLY like a heterosexual thinks about THEIR orientation. Gay people wouldn't have to assert their HUMANITY were it not that the subject is sexual orientation, not SEX.
Which is why it's wrong to assume that what a hetero does that is noble, like serving in the military, wouldn't and couldn't be destructive if a gay person does it UNDER EQUAL STANDARDS.
And it's the contradiction of terms and standards that gay people are confronted with, that NO ONE could adhere to that confound cooperation, not gay people.

Being realistic about what orientation is, instead of debating sex practices is the important thing.


Ranger 29
Maybe you should of married a man. And it is foolish to say that anyone that disagrees with what you say must not of been in the service and shouldn’t speak. And Author indicates anyone that disagrees with homos most not speak because they had not had homosexual experiences. I guess you two aren’t going to vote for Barry. Because according to your perception of reality, Barry has no right to be command in chief because he’s never been in the service nor managed a business. That is, unless you lie. Author I noticed you chide a lot of persons for personal attacks on you, it seems to be the only way you have to try and win your stupid arguments by changing the subject and wanting everyone to feel sorry for you. What about everybody on the right you attack? I could easily say I’m on the right and take it personally. But as I mentioned to you before, which obviously met no resistance and breezed through you empty head, “ How could you be attacked personally when you spew you garbage anonymously?”

Whatever rowly
I have said it once and I will say it again - have it your way.

I put down my position and backed it up. You couldn't refute it so you arbitrarily say that I am making things up. It's been an interesting discussion.

You are really playing games now with your verbal gymnastics.

But regardless of it all, Ms. Donnelly bombed miserably in her testimony. End of story.

Author
If you mean me making personal attacks,that is not what I amd doing. I can find statistics to bolster my point of view,just as you can.

You can go to liberal sites such Huffy or kos or moveon.org and they will back up any liberal thought you may have. Doesn't make it true,though.

I believe you are the one who denied everything I

said.That is a personal attack,because I do not lie. If it had not been true,I would not have said it.


Lone Ranger
I am not on a stage.That is for make believe.I am for real. I don't bother with fairy tales like you.

My world will stand long after the decadent world you aspire to.. Don't you know,the good always land on their feet.

I don't have a problem with women in combat. Where did you get that? See,you just make up lies. BTW..who are the two new killers who are about to be "let LOSS on the world"? Is it you and your alter-ego?

In all honesty
This is a good site. I don't generally agree with much on it but I enjoy reading the columns.

It is rare that I respond but I felt I had to because of Knight's blatant attempt to spin a bad performance by Donnelly into a Joan of Arc moment.

Having said that, I have to say that there is no reason to attack someone personally. If you can't make your case without attacking folks, then what is the point of talking? Aren't you really saying "my position doesn't hold water?"

Lone Ranger
I live in the real world ,Jerk and don't have to make up forty names to try to con people. If I had one cent for every lie you have posted here,I could retire comfortably.

You con some poor soul with your lies so they will respond to you and ZAP! Soon he will hate your lies just like the rest of us then you will need to start over.

You really are a sad person. No life. No honor. Nothing but fairy tales. Lies about your past. Lies about your present and lies about your future.

You know you have no one who would marry you. If you do, do her a favor and let her read your lies here.

There are some things I could say about you,but I am not as nasty as you. I do stick to the truth.

You and your alter ego are keeping the pages hot today,knowing you won't be deleted on the weekend. We will see what th can do about that soon.

You don't need to make up statistics?
You don't need to make up statistics? Perhaps you should talk to Elaine Donnelly or the author of this piece, Robert Knight.

Knight especially is renowned for using discredited work.

But when have I ever made up statistics? Everything statistic I have cited has been documented correctly.

I think its sad that you have to make personal attacks instead of defending your position

Broadminded Boys
You both know you are so liberal it is funny. The best you can say is,"the right wing is worse".

You have to try to justify your position by citing things that are not true and you know it. But hey,if it makes you feel better about your beliefs,keep it up.Makes no difference to me.

Liberals are all the lowest form of humanity. Making up lies and false statistics is one of your specialties,isn't it?

I will have it my way,Author. When you grow up,you will understand the real world. At least we 'right' wing thinkers don't have to make up statistics to justify our behavior.


Have it your way, rowly
Rowly,

whatever you say. but don't reduce your argument with being happy with semantical words.

Broadminded Boys
You boys just keep up the piling on. It is enjoyable to read. Makes me so glad not to be you. It is good to be old fashioned and right wing.

Notice the key word "right". Makes sense,doesn't it. You make up your fairy tales and I will live in the real world,but not thankfully in yours.

Ranger29
your wife sounds like an awesome person. I salute her like I salute and thank EVERYONE who are out there fighting for our freedoms.

Keep the discussion as it should be
No one is calling you any name, Rowly.

But the discussion is about gays serving openly in the military.

You can't use the "gays have so much sex" argument because ultimately you would have to look at heterosexual sex.

You can't use the "anal sex" argument because heterosexuals engage in the practice also.

As far as bathhouses and such, apparently no one has ever heard of straight swingers conventions and places like Plato's Retreat.

But to focus on such things is painting all gays with a broad vague brush and diverts from the discussion. Not all gays have AIDS and heterosexuals are not immune to the disease.

But gays are already in the military and serving proudly. So all of these other points about what "could happen" is moot. All that changes is the openess of their sexual orientation. And I have faith that our Armed Forces (which is the greatest in the world) can adapt to this just like they have adapted to so many other changes.

Broadmindedness
I stated my opinion about homosexuals and the military. If anyone has a problem with what I said,too bad. It will not change my opinion.

If any of you want to sleep,or shower with homosexuals,have at it. I do not and will not,and certainly do not apologize for it.

I may be narrowminded,but I have my reasons and yes,I do have my Bible. I also have my predjudices. I am proud of them. They help me sleep at night.

When the aids virus started years ago,almost 100% of the people who contracted it were homosexual men. If it had been any other disease,they would have been quarantined and it could have been stopped.

It was not PC to do that,so the bath houses where homosexual men gathered to have multiple partners in a single night remained open and the virus spread.Now it has cost many millions of dollars and many thousands of lives.

Yes,I am narrowminded and proud of it. i am also right and proud of that. If you can truthfully refute any of my opinion,do it. If not ,keep your opinions to yourself.

so redundant
Gay men and women have ALREADY been serving, applying themselves honorably and bravely in uniform, so THAT means that they CAN and ARE VERY effective and competent.
This they do in coalition with British and Israeli soldiers who can serve openly.

The military cannot and should not allow ANY servicemembers to concede to their prejudices and bigotry. It's an all volunteer situation. Knowing that there are gay servicemembers or Muslim gives a recruit every option to NOT serve if THEY have a problem. Pitching Muslim, or female or gay soldiers from the ranks only enables bigotry...it's the BIGOTRY that has no place in the service, not the soldiers who are the object of that bigotry.
If a soldier doesn't like blacks, knowing blacks serve in the military, it WOULD be stupid to discharge all the black soldiers.
So it's equally unacceptable to kick gay soldiers for the same reason.

And it DOES insult the professionals, gay AND heterosexual to insist THEY can't serve together for the lame and ridiculous reasons fomented by Knight and Donnelly and the majority of this thread.

I serve the LAPD with openly gay officers. The law enforcement environment is very similar to that of the military. There is something ESPECIALLY courageous and morally profound about those who serve in dangerous conditions and protect rights and freedoms they don't get to share.



Author
You say if a homosexual is in a life or death situation,the last thing on their mind is sex. Aids is a life or death situation. Do homosexuals refrain from sex knowing it may kill them? I do not think so.

The armed servicies is not a social experiment. There are situations too important to have to watch your back(pardon the pun)in all instances.


So gays can't control impulses?
I think there is a stereotype here that Donnelly tried to project (and it was rejected) that gays cannot control themselves in group environments like the Armed Forces.

I think that they can. Just like I believe that when push comes to shove, heterosexual men and women can control themselves in such environments. If you are in a life and death situation, the last thing on your mind is sex or oogling someone's body.

have it your way
have it your way, gandalf.

but it is a huge generalization to paint all gays with a vague brush. the subject here is gays being allowed to serve openly in the military. And in all honesty, Donnelly did not give any reasons to not allow this to happen.

I know the spin is that she was "treated terribly," but she did not do her side any favors with her testimony.

Author
No. What makes it difficult to talk about anything having to do with "gays" is their insistence on foregoing standards of decency, morality, and logic in favor of adherence to their point of view alone.

Author
Serial sex = more than one time, that is, repeatedly.

DADT
How can the military have straight men and homosexual men thrown in together,to shower,sleep,etc.without expecting some problems?

Would the military allow men and women to sleep,shower,etc.together? How could that be conducive to a regulated military?

If known homosexuals are allowed,it seems like to my limited mental ability,they would need to be isolated during private times. I would not shower or sleep around a homosexual of my same sex any more than I would the opposite sex.


Serial sex?
Not all gays have "serial sex" (whatever that is).

I think that's one of the stereotypes that make it difficult to talk about the issue of gays in the military.

Author
What do "gays" know about reality? They already live in a fantasyland where having serial sex with members of their own gender is considered a basis for marriage.

A lot of generalizations and diversions
If you can do the job, you should be allowed to. To generalize that all gays have sex on the mind is wrong in the light of the gays and lesbians who served bravely in the Armed Forces.

Acknowledging one's sexual orientation is not the same as giving a detailed history regarding sexual intercourse. T

It has nothing to do with experimentation. All folks have brought are hypothetics, conjecture and silly fear proposals when it comes to discussing gays in the military.

Meanwhile, we are in the middle of a war and those who can help us end it are being drummed out because of some policy that has nothing to do with reality.

Semantical phrases like "lifestyle choices," "the homosexual/gay agenda," has nothing to do with reality.

Rowley
I know this is going to sound strange but it has to do with "spirits" (and I don't mean ghosts")

Think more of "influences" although that is a weak substitute. We are all subject to various influences motivating and moving us, behind our conscious decisions and these are obscured by the day to day routines we all engage in.

For example, a man may look like a successful businessman, very sharp and organized and disciplined, but behind it all may simply be a love of money driving him.

Now, take homosexuality. It is so unnatural that it causes massive amounts of guilt in the human psyche. This drives the individual to do something to alliviate the guilt and in today's culture that translates into justifying the legitimacy of the behavior. This, of course, does not alleviate the guilt so greater and greater attempts at legitimacy must be attempted, which, of course, translates into gaining political power to enforce acceptance on a reluctant population.

In the absence of a previously dominant influence, now effectively relegated to the periphery of society (I am speaking of the spirit of Christian religion) various other spirits now feel emboldened to emerge and wreak havoc.

And the more you have of those individuals motivated by the same spirit, the more you are going to feel their influence.

I realize this is a very limited explanation of the dynamics, but the basics are there.

Author, whoever
I have a feeling this is going to turn into an endless debate where both of us keep repeating ourselves. I already said that anal sex is unhealthy, etc., not matter who does it, but homosexuals are known to engage in these acts quite a bit more frequently than heterosexuals. I could go on and on about this subject, but it is not one I relish discussing in great detail.

I don't know about everyone else here, but I never said a google heterosexuals will be assaulted, but there will be consequences, make no mistake about that. In addition, I am just saying the military is not the place to be pushing the gay agenda or experimenting with alternative lifestyle acknowledgments.


The Homosexual Mindset
I am not sure if there are statistics or if there has been much thought about the mindset of the homosexual.

It seems to me like most straight people have a life outside of their sexual appetites. It is of some importance,but several other things are more so.

With homosexuals,it seems like sex is the important thing and everything else is secondary. I couldn't care less what a persons sexual preferences are. Why do they feel the need to let everyone know theirs?

Rep. Patrick Murphy
an ex-military man himself, rightfully and pointedly told Ms. Donnelly that what she was insultingly inferring was that he and his fellow soldiers didn't have the professionalism to work with gay soldiers.

In effect, she was saying that heterosexual soldiers are so insecure, so unprofessional and so distracted THEY are incapable of performing.
Ms. Donnelly herself never served, and she insulted the brave service of the gay men and women in uniform before her as well.
She was out of her depth, out of her league and insulting.
She wasn't being bullied, she was being SET RIGHT.

She had no proof of her own, nor any reliable CUURENT information.


Sauce for the goose
The cognoscenti have been telling us incessantly for decades, with some measure of accuracy, that sex and its attendant issues are inimical to fairness, order, and efficiency on the job. As a result, standards of workplace behavior in the private sector have become downright Puritan. Tell an off-color joke, put a centerfold in your locker, or ask a co-worker for a date, and your career may be over. You may also be subject to legal action.

Why, then, is it difficult to apply the same standards to the armed forces, where fairness, order, and efficiency are matters of life and death, victory or defeat? There is simply no place for sex of any kind, hetero-, homo-, or interspecific, in a tank, on a ship, or in a bomber. Period.

The point is, Amy
Trying to pull the "homosexuals have dangerous anal sex" card is irrelevant to the argument because it is a practice that heterosexuals engage in also.

It's interesting that folks will start talking about how dangerous anal sex when they are talking about gays, but won't acknowledge the fact that heterosexuals do it also.

That being the case, if we set standards regarding entrance in the military because of it, wouldn't it be prudent to not allow hetereosexuals in also?

The fact of the matter is that there may be good arguments with not allowing gays to serve openly in the military, but the opposition (i.e. Elaine Donnelly) spins these tales of "diseased gays seeking to rape and google at heterosexuals."

It reduces the integrity of the argument and their credibility.

onceamarine
Me too.

Unfortunately, there is no "somewhere else". We are the last bastion of hope and when we fall (notice I did not say "if"), that's it.

What is up next is not going to be pretty.

I'm watching the Muslims, myself. They figure in all this somehow.

Pray for your grandchildren.

Good Bye USA, feminist and gays have....
.
....the home court advantage.

My ancestors came here over 350 years ago, and by God, they/we, can now move some where else where people still have some common sense, I hope.

Sorry guys and gals, but there are too many things going on with obvious and very bad repercussions. I think I know when the opposition has the upper hand. Only a careful "thinning" of their ranks will stop the deluge. Maybe because I have spent so many years outside the U.S.A. that I find it somewhat easy to say, Sayonara, damn fools.

But then maybe the Muslims will liberate mankind from the clutches of our homegrown liberal misfit contortionists. That might be worth watching in spite of the downside. Mother nature has a way of making course corrections when men's and women's activities get out of control.

Or maybe the up and coming Chinese civilization will obviate the need for Muslims. In any case a course correction will/must come into play whether by our hand (preferable) or by the hand of others. The upside is the afore mentioned screwballs will not like what they will cause to happen to the culture they are so intent upon changing.
.
.

Pepe actualizes Donnelly's reputation
by downgrading quantity and profession.
“ She served on a commission in the '80s and has been running a nonprofit ever since 1993. There are tons of people out there doing the same thing, but I wouldn't say they have a "sterling" reputation.”
What would you say they have Pepe? The crabs?
Yes Pepe, everyone is capable of flying off the handle, but lefties a lot more then others.
And amongst those fools out there Pepe, I dare not say you were one of them, but you’re getting mighty close.

Missing The Point
The point of the article was that Mrs.Donnelly was not treated very nicely at the hearing. The reason being that she was addressing a subject that is not PC to oppose .




Author, whoever
I'm not sure I buy those statistics at all, but the point is moot. Whoever does it, it is still unhealthy, unsanitary and potentially hazardous. And as far as I am aware homosexual men at least are known to engage in such activities as part of being a homosexual. The facts do not change about the behavior, regardless of the attempts to justify it or turn the attention to the those who are in moral and medical disagreement with the practices. I hardly find the medical risks of homosexuality ( or anal sex) irrelevant considering these men are suppose to be protecting our nation.

No one here is hysterical as far as I can tell. lol.

Furthermore, such activities are hardly going to serve the military well in the long run. Of course one is free not to believe me and time will do the telling if open homosexuality is allowed among the ranks of the military.

Anal sex or hearing?
Some folks seem to be channeling the idea that all gays have anal sex or only gays have anal sex.

A January 2007 issue of the New Yorker magazine says that according to the CDC’s National Survey for Family Growth, released in 2006, 38.2 percent of men between 20 and 39 and 32.6 percent of women ages 18 to 44 engage in heterosexual anal sex.

So what does this mean? It means trying to turn the argument about gays in the military into one regarding alleged sexual habits of gay men (i.e. anal sex) is not only irrelevant but it reveals the hysterical mindset of those attempting to do such.

It is the same mindset that led Donnelly to bomb spectacularly at the hearing.

Was he watching the same hearing?
I watched the entire hearing from beginning to end, and I think Mr. Knight must be talking about a different hearing than the one I saw:

"trashed her personally during their testimony"

I don't recall anyone trashing Ms. Donnelly. A couple of the Congresspeople took back their time, when she refused to answer their questions. But that was as "personal" as it got.

"He might also have mentioned that Donnelly has a sterling reputation earned over years of public service"

She served on a commission in the '80s and has been running a nonprofit ever since 1993. There are tons of people out there doing the same thing, but I wouldn't say they have a "sterling" reputation.

"What she does do is to demolish the other side’s arguments with logic and documented materials."

What? She never presented any documented materials during the hearing. She brought up one possible cause of lesbian violence, but she didn't even have the full story there.

"She projected her anger on to me, which is something I see certain gay activists doing quite often, accusing their opponents of hate where there is none."

And this is a condition only liberals suffer from? Gimme a break. Everyone is capable of flying off the handle at some point.

“I know what it’s like to be bullied by powerful men.”

Susan Davis, Carol Shea-Porter, Nancy Borda, Niki Tsongas, Ellen Tauscher - Those are all women. Attention to detail!

I noticed that Mr. Knight didn't go into much detail about the testimony of SGM Jones. Frankly, I was disappointed in his performance. He came off good during his initial statement, but fell apart under the question. Not what I would have expected.


Author, whoever
Actually it is not "silly." Speaking as someone in the medical profession it is not silly at all. It is common sense that such habits as anal sex are both unsanitary, unhealthy and potentially hazardous to those who engage in it. That particular portion of the anatomy is designed as a rather delicate exit, filled with all manner of bacteria.

As for the testimony, sadly I did not hear it, but I wish I had. Common sense would also appear to say that allowing open homosexuality is a recipe for disaster. We should not be using our military as a platform to push the relentless, never-ending homosexual agenda. Apparently common sense (and moral values along with guts)goes out the window when it comes to having someones "lifestyle" continually shoved in our faces. Once again we watch the special rights of the minority trying to trump every other consideration no matter what is at stake.

I applaud Donnelly for doing what she could in the face of such blatant hostility.

Nam65-66
" Nam65-66
Location: NY

Reply # 16
Date: Jul 26, 2008 - 7:58 AM EST Actually,after 20 years in the Army...
...(Infantry),it's been my expierience that the men in the barracks will take care of the "problem". The service will not be a friendly place for homosexuals. And you can be sure that word will get out, politicians to the contrary notwithstanding. "

~~~

Way to go good Vet!

It is called 'Blanket Party' ! Along with a bar of soap inside a couple of socks.

You are 100% correct. The troops WILL take care of the problem.


The Rat

Now really dukas
Dukas, I don't seek to limit anyone's free speech. The matter at hand here was Donnelly's performance in front of the Congressional committee. It was a poor performance point blank.

All that other stuff about anal sex and fecal matter is just silly.

Why Fear Their Lobby
Homosexuals of all types are not more than 3% of the total population. Therefore, they are too few in number to swing any congressional election even if they were a unanimous bloc. (They are not.)

So why do so many political figures seemingly fear the obviously impotent wrath of an activist minority within a minority?

Cowardice is the only answer I can figure out.

And by the way, "don't ask, don't tell", was the de facto military policy from 1776 until early 1942 when Franklin Roosevelt felt compelled to issue a typically Quixotic executive order upsetting the applecart.

I recomment everybody sit on their posteriors and keep their mouths shut. It works---in more ways than one.

I Am Sorry,Mrs.Donnelly
I admire Mrs. Donnelly. She knew she was going into the lion's den without even a whip and a chair. She knew the animals were hungry,too.

What a disgrace Chris Shays is.I would expect no more from the Democrats,but Shays is a Republican,although a moderate one.Perversion is what some Democrats live (and die ) for.

There may be some homosexuals who actually want to serve in the armed forces,but some do it mainly to break down another established norm.

Chip,chip,chip. Little by little, liberals have changed our society and we have allowed it. They have brought us down to the gutter with them,if not to join them in their perversion,then at least to watch it.

Cannot attack Author?
Why not? Do not flatter yourself Author, I do not personally know who you are. You are just an anonymous freak who wants to limit my free speech and lie about the health hazards in thin walls that hug bacteria loving fecal matter, which can transfer unhealthiness during anal intercourse, simply because you dig it. Any reasonable person knows it is an unhealthy, risking act, left as a private decision. You make up numbers in your own mind and waste our time, demanding we pay to watch you rot in an attempt to pull us down with you.


Now come on dukas
To personally attack me is wrong. But have it your way.

The general feeling (and I know some of you will blame the "liberal MSM" for this) is that Donnelly embarrassed herself and set her cause back by her testimony.

Author is a projecting gay propagandist,
I watch the hearing and saw quite a different hearing then Author is trying to establish..

I saw more closet lesbians board members questioning her then sat in the gallery observing.
The board was not there to inquire or learn, they were there to push decadence and justify it. Lacking any intellectual capability the board tried to accomplish their goal by embarrassing and humiliating anyone who disagreed with their misconstrued, ego based, assumptions.
The left projects a lot because they can’t accept responsibility. If they accepted it, they would have to admit the perversions they enjoy and are harmful and destructive to our culture and country.
I came away wanting to learn more about Elaine Donnelly. I admire intelligent, forthright, unwavering, good looking gals. Elaine Donnelly is a lady.

Hey techreck
She kept talking about transgenders in the military and lesbians taking pictures of women in the showers but had no showed no proof of her allegations.

Her testimony was filled with semantic phrases like "forcible sodomy" and "forced cohabitation" but the only substantial thing she offered was an alleged 1974 incident of a female solider getting gang assaulted by a bunch of black lesbians.

In comparison, the other side had soldiers who did actually serve.

That's not true, Leslie
Come on, Leslie. The lie about homosexuality and fecal matter went out with believing that Paul Cameron is a credible researcher.

And that crack about the homosexual life span is also false. That's the mindset Donnelly was trying to present to the committee. And that is why she was practically laughed out of the room.

Author, And your facts are ?
If Elaine's testimony was "filled with inaccuracies and conjectures", give us some examples. Unsupported allegations are not convincing.

A Health Issue For Our Troops
The homosexual act involves the transfer of human defecation. Human waste is highly toxic, and can have many diliterious affects on the human body. Both on the base, and in the field, it is a public health issue that could incapacitate troops due to exposure to diseases that develop as a result of such activities. The homosexual life span is shorter than those who do not practice such behavior. An open acceptance of this behavior could put at risk, all personnel who do not practice diviant sexual acts, thereby also possibly exposing them to diseases that would also shorten their life span.

other issues
thanks, Roadmaster, you are exactly right! Of course there are gays in the miitary, and just like the rest of us, they keep their sex life private. No one wants to hear about anyone's sex life!

My problem with officially acknowledging gays in the military is from the family side. Open this door and you will encounter a mass of problems: how to determine "dependent status?" How do "partners" qualify for medical benefits? No marriage certificate...this will allow for a LOT of fraud. (hetero unmarried "couples" will demand benefits, too) What about death benefits? "Partners" will demand the rightful benefits of widows and children.

Not to mention the issues with the Chain of Concern--notification, family support, deployment support groups, play groups, installation access, and so forth.

All of these "rights" of dependents cost MONEY. Once we force gay acceptance on the military, we force it on our entire Defense Budget. How's that for a morale buster?

Elaine Donnelly was terrible
I noticed Mr. Knight, while singing Donnelly's platititudes, say nothing specific about her testimony. The fact of the matter is that Donnelly's testimony was filled with inaccuracies and conjectures. That is why she bombed at the hearing.

If she stood alone it was because folks were too embarrassed to stand with her.


A Lady Under Fire
The only difference between Joan Darrah, Dana Milbank, Christopher Shays, Carol Shea, Vic Snyder, Ellen Tracher and a bucket of
S--- is the bucket.

More gay soldiers than you know
In my long Army career (68-98 w/10 year break), I was aware of many queers, and as long as they didn't mix their homo-ing with soldiering, they did okay.

Even the toughest Ranger could care less if the medic who is treating him, or the finance specialist who is fixing his pay snafu, is swinging for the wrong side, as long as they aren't constantly waving it in everyone's face.

The biggest problem I have with homosexuals is that they just won't SHUT UP about their lusts and urges. I DON"T want to hear about it! Keep your private perversions PRIVATE!!! That goes for everyone, straight or not.

In this age of YouTube and FaceBook, people seemed compelled to put all their dirty laundry out for all to see. Guess what? I don't look and I don't care, except to pray for your salvation and safety.

Judging from the makeup
of the House subcommitee, I'd say the outcome is already determined regardless of the testimonies of Mrs. Donelly and Sgt. Jones.
And anyone else who dares to disagree.


The Role of the Wash. Post
About five years ago, I witnessed how the Washington Post used its CHILDREN'S section to run a huge article advertising TO children how "wonderful" it was for a BOY in Maryland to be raised by a "two mommies" lesbian couple. The "two mommies" were approved of by the Post for their selfish use of the child as a human shield. Brought before the state legislature in Annapolis, the boy testified how great it was to be brought up by lesbians. WHAT ELSE was the poor kid going to say, with the caregivers on whom he is dependent hovering over him?

No wonder the COM-Post is against a truth-teller like Elaine Donnelly! Meanwhile, that boy will by now have spent his entire childhood being graphically and forcefully shown, by the daily life of his "two mommies," that women have no use for men. And if this years-long indoctrination program succeeds in turning the boy into a homosexual, the lesbians will then pretend to believe--KNOWING this to be false--that "it was just programmed in his chromosomes to be gay."

As for the military, if open gays are let in, this will mean that sexual harassment of BOTH kinds will increase, and NO ONE in service will have ANY place to get away from the possibility of having unwanted sexual advances made to them.

Actually,after 20 years in the Army...
...(Infantry),it's been my expierience that the men in the barracks will take care of the "problem".The service will not be a friendly place for homosexuals.And you can be sure that word will get out,politicians to the contrary notwithstanding.

As I recall. . .
Who were the first to cry "faggot" when a Republican politician got caught playing footsie with some cop in an airport bathroom?

Or is my memory defective?

Where was the good lady's support?
God bless Mrs. Elaine Donnelly, President of the Center for Military Readiness, for her brave testimony. Once again the Democrats are on the wrong track, bent (pardon the pun) on wrecking our military. If the homosexuals and lesbians can't keep their mouths shut about their "alternative lifestyle," they don't need to be in uniform. --And we are sick of hearing the libs comparing our standards to those of the Brits, the Europeans, and other countries. In recent speeches from Afghanistan to London, Barack Hussein Obama kept apologising for his country's policies and actions. So much for his "fact-finding mission!" If that inexperienced socialist gets into the White House we will all suffer.

"reigned her in"?
That's "reined" surely. I thought that none (least of all themselves) can govern the extremists.

Sen. McCain won't appoint
Ms. Donnellly to anything. Don't you get it? She's conservative! He's only just put both thumbs and 6 fingers in our eyes so far. He can't start to placate us at this late date!

Such a fine woman. What a shame to waste someone like that.

Good article...we don't hear anything...
about these kinds of things from MSM. She sounds like a great candidate for a cabinet post, Sen. McCain!

That's all we need
To finish the job on our military. It's already a social experiment for these leftist fools--trying to push women to the front lines, into cockpits, into the service academies, and now to allow open homosexuals into the ranks.

Want to read about the damage it's doing? Try "The Kinder, Gentler Military" by Stephanie Gutman, or "Women in the Military, Flirting with Disaster" by Brian Mitchell, and "Women Who Make the World Worse" by Kate O'Beirne has a few things to say on the matter also---all of it bad news for our fighting forces. Our military is being watered down and weakened.

We don't need a kinder, gentler, homosexual- friendly or politically correct military, any more than the Pittsburgh Steelers need women and homosexuals on their front line to "be inclusive." They want to win games, and we need to win wars on battlefields, not conduct "feelgood" social experiments that run contrary to nature and common sense.

Our military stands between us and vicious, brutal, evil enemies, and it takes real men to stand up to these threats. Let the leftists "roll their eyes" at that idea---if we lose wars with their harebrained notion of a "socially just" military, the next thing that will roll is their heads.

Mot Ah Suggest:


Dear Senator McCain,

Would you consider Elaine Donnely for the office of Vice President on your November ballot?

Otherwise; when you take office, name Ms Donnelly Secretary of Defense.

Throw the gantlet down at these disgraceful excuses for American public servants and journalists. We'll back you all the way !
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