Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Tuesday, June 17, 2008
Robert Knight :: Townhall.com Columnist
'The Sky is Not Falling' - Yet
by Robert Knight
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Now that the media have shared with us their joy over the advent of homosexual “marriage” in California, here’s the other shoe that will drop in the next few weeks.

Get used to this term: “The sky is not falling.”  It will be used by pro-gay spokespeople that the media showcase to make the point that nobody will be substantially affected.

Shortly after May 17, 2004, when Mitt Romney’s administration began handing out same-sex marriage licenses in Massachusetts despite no legislative action on the law, which was required under the Massachusetts Constitution, the media eagerly showcased gay activists who said, on cue, “See, the sky is not falling.”

I was debating the marriage issue on college campuses with former Human Rights Campaign leader Elizabeth Birch that spring and summer, and I recall her beginning one presentation by noting that the natural elements had remained intact in the Bay State following the beginning of “gay marriage.”

She assured the young audience, which soaked up her utterly illogical argument, that the “sun still came out, the birds still chirped and the flowers still bloomed,” or something to that effect.

Well, the birds chirped and the flowers bloomed in Pearl Harbor on December 8, 1941, as the American fleet lay smoldering.

Yes, sometimes it takes a few years before radical social changes wreak havoc, such as the fallout from the sexual revolution and the rise of the welfare state, which shattered families and led to epidemic levels of promiscuity, divorce, STDs and unwanted pregnancies. 

But the “see, nothing has changed?” argument is persuasive for “me-now” minds trained to see only the immediate and to look neither to the past nor the future as important reference points.

But gay activists are under no such illusions as to whether “gay marriage” will have social impact. Here are a few quotes that bear repeating, from my paper “The Case for Marriage,” which I wrote as director of the Culture & Family Institute at Concerned Women for America:

"A middle ground might be to fight for same-sex marriage and its benefits and then, once granted, redefine the institution of marriage completely, to demand the right to marry not as a way of adhering to society's moral codes but rather to debunk a myth and radically alter an archaic institution."

-Michelangelo Signorile, “Bridal Wave,” OUT magazine, December/January 1994, p. 161.

* * *

"[E]nlarging the concept to embrace same-sex couples would necessarily transform it into something new....Extending the right to marry to gay people -- that is, abolishing the traditional gender requirements of marriage -- can be one of the means, perhaps the principal one, through which the institution divests itself of the sexist trappings of the past."

-Tom Stoddard, quoted in Roberta Achtenberg, et al, “Approaching 2000: Meeting the Challenges to San Francisco's Families,” The Final Report of the Mayor’s Task Force on Family Policy, City and County of San Francisco, June 13, 1990, p.1.

* * *

"It is also a chance to wholly transform the definition of family in American culture. It is the final tool with which to dismantle all sodomy statutes, get education about homosexuality and AIDS into public schools, and, in short, usher in a sea change in how society views and treats us."

- Michelangelo Signorile, “I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do, I Do,” OUT magazine, May 1996, p. 30.

* * *

"Being queer is more than setting up house, sleeping with a person of the same gender, and seeking state approval for doing so. … Being queer means pushing the parameters of sex, sexuality, and family, and in the process, transforming the very fabric of society. … As a lesbian, I am fundamentally different from non-lesbian women. …In arguing for the right to legal marriage, lesbians and gay men would be forced to claim that we are just like heterosexual couples, have the same goals and purposes, and vow to structure our lives similarly. … We must keep our eyes on the goals of providing true alternatives to marriage and of radically reordering society's view of reality."

-Paula Ettelbrick, “Since When Is Marriage a Path to Liberation?,” in William Rubenstein, ed., Lesbians, Gay Men and the Law (New York: The New Press, 1993), pp. 401-405.

And there’s this from pro-homosexual and pro-pedophile author Judith Levine:

"Because American marriage is inextricable from Christianity, it admits participants as Noah let animals onto the ark. But it doesn't have to be that way. In 1972 the National Coalition of Gay Organizations demanded the ‘repeal of all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit; and the extension of legal benefits to all persons who cohabit regardless of sex or numbers.’ Would polygamy invite abuse of child brides, as feminists in Muslim countries and prosecutors in Mormon Utah charge? No. Group marriage could comprise any combination of genders."

- Judith Levine, “Stop the Wedding!: Why Gay Marriage Isn’t Radical Enough,” The Village Voice, July 23-29, 2003. Levine declines to mention that the 1972 Gay Rights Platform also called for abolishing age of consent laws. This is a curious omission since Levine herself has written in favor of lowering the age of consent to 12 for sex between children and adults in her book Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex (p. 88).

Remember these statements as you see the media bring the folks on who will assure us all that, “The sky is not falling.”

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Robert Knight is a Senior Writer/Correspondent for Coral Ridge Ministries and a Senior Fellow for the American Civil Rights Union.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.

And the "sky" will indeed fall
Homosexual practices are totally nauseating and eventually this country will reap the results.

AS CALIFORNIA GOES, SO GOES CALIFORNIA
Gavin will be successful in politics in the state of California, but I believe that's where he will stay. While I believe free agency is important, like everything else, has consequences. I believe the Bible is not a collection of fables and fiction. And I am concerned the openly rebellious actions of people in this day and age very well could rile the anger of the Almighty. Therefore, wicked people, including gays, put the rest of us at risk.

I am one who will never endorse or accept such behavior as normal. Try as they may, there will always be God fearing people who condemn such lifestyles.

The title says it all....
What a perfect title to sum up all the GOP fear mongering.

I woke up this morning next to my husband of almost fifty years and then I noticed on the news that California is still on the map.

Gay/Lesbian marriage will have ZERO impact on my marriage, my children, my grandchilden. Period.

Time to move on to your next boogy-man. You people have lost this one.

Romney Responsible....

Mitt Romney could have told Margaret Marshall to go back to South Africa -- He could have just held a moritorum on marriage or done a half dozen other things. But didn't.

And anyone thinking of Mitt Romney for VP needs to remember this....

Here's Where Your Argument Falls Apart
When people say "God-fearing", they are only referring to about 35-45% of the US population that takes an orthodox outlook on life. Has it ever occurred to any of you out there that there are some religions that don't necessarily view homosexuality in the same light (or should I say dim) as the majority. As an agnostic Jew, I don't see how this is a problem for society in general as long as these gay couples don't interfere ith the religious freedoms of others, which I highly doubt they would try to restrict.

The issue here is that this belief on homosexuality imposes a religious test that clearly undermines the seperation between church and state, in which an official religion is designated for the federal government, if not the state government. The issue will ultimately be decide in the electoral process, where every religious denomination will have their say.

The7Sticks 9:58 PM EST
"When people say "God-fearing", they are only referring to about 35-45% of the US population that takes an orthodox outlook on life."

And the great thing is that their screaming hysterics at the idea of gay marriage will actually serve to REDUCE THAT PERCENTAGE in the longer term.

The Next Headline Will be...
After that one, will be "Judeo-Christian Beliefs are bigoted because they don't accept homosexual behavior as either normal nor moral." It will be just around the corner.

yuck
Nothing will ever convince me that homosexuality is a 'normal' behavior. It just seems like selfishness to me.

Its a slippery slope where we seem to find ourselves. The last quote seems to incorporate "group" marriages. That appeals to the sexual preferences of some. Then what? Condone marriages to minors? Relatives? Animals?

Funny that for the sake of 'progress' we become more tolerant of perversion.

it is very simple
It is very simple:

homosexuals are sterile,

homosexuality is sterile,

homosexuals are frustrated that their anal 'sex' does not produce babies,

homosexuals produce and spread disease,

homosexual sucidal anal 'sex' shortens the homosexual life expectancy,

nothing favors homosexuals,

nothing favors homosexuality,

nothing recommends homosexuals,

nothing recommends homosexuality.

Watch Canada
Don't be so sure it will leave religions alone. In Canada it is now a hate crime to say anything against homosexual activity. That includes the churches. Huge fines and the possiblity of prison.

Gays are sueing in this country and they are winning too often. For example, If a photographer declines to take pictures of a gay "wedding" they risk getting sued and losing their life savings. Never mind that there are other photographers that would be thrilled to get the job. Gays seak out those to sue. It's a no brainer, it can pay for the honeymoon, or a down payment on the house. Get them publicity. Make a name for themselves, and give them a legal right to be bullies and harrass others.

Sure, now go ahead and tell us how they don't plan to harm others. They just want their rights. Just like everyone else.

The other shoe is going to drop. It will take a while, but it is coming. They will get access to younger and younger children. They will do everything they can to confuse them sexually. It will not hurt your marriage. If your kids are old enough it might not hurt their's. By the time your grandkids come of age the damage will be obvious. But by that time we will be distracted by even worse things.






Homosexuality kills
So great! Let's confuse the kids and teach them to try it, they may like it. The younger the child the more effective the brainwashing.

That is what this is really all about. Misery loves company. Misery needs affirmation. Misery needs to recruit new victims. Let the homosexuals marry and adopt innocent kids so they can twist their young minds. It's Sick!


Mitt Romney
Knight subtley labels Mitt Romney as a same sex marriage advocate when he was under court order to issue those marriage licenses. It was Governor Mitt Romney who compelled the legislature to vote on traditional marriage when they sought to avoid voting on a petition by the people to reinstate it. Robert Knight is blinded to those who are fighting on the same side. It does not help our common cause.

Mel
"Homosexual practices are totally nauseating and eventually this country will reap the results."

And America is inescapably slouching towards Sodom and Gomorrah! Reap the results indeed! Many, many times. Then, there's the fall of the Roman Empire for it's excessive debauchery. I'm wondering just when will God say "enough"!

To OR
Or writes, " Then, there's the fall of the Roman Empire for it's excessive debauchery. I'm wondering just when will God say "enough"!" When the Roman Empire fell the Christians were in power.

To Island
Island writes, "So great! Let's confuse the kids and teach them to try it, they may like it. The younger the child the more effective the brainwashing." I would be glad if little Bobby won't kill himself when he in high school because he is gay. Can you understand that the gay teen suicide rate is around four times that for heterosexual children.

Swampfox
You state that the suicide rate is higher for homosexual teens, yet there is no proof that their homosexuality is the reason. I have seen studies infer that and draw that conclusion, yet even the authors grudgingly admit they can't be sure. You see, very few of them leave suicide notes saying they, "I am killing myself because of my sexual orientation."









Probably higher
Irene Adler, "You state that the suicide rate is higher for homosexual teens, yet there is no proof that their homosexuality is the reason. I have seen studies infer that and draw that conclusion, yet even the authors grudgingly admit they can't be sure. You see, very few of them leave suicide notes saying they, "I am killing myself because of my sexual orientation." Yep you you are probably right. I wasn't going to leave such a note. But spent 17 days in the hospital last year because of major depression because of this issue.

It is not very simple...
As a gay man who does NOT believe in gay "marriage", who votes Republican (even though there doesn't appear to be a real Republican running for president this time around), and who firmly believes in "live and let live", I am always dismayed when the most radical of gay activists are quoted, adding fuel to the fire of outrage, hate and fear.

I know that marriage is an institution thousands of years old that was established for very specific reasons and NOT so some young couple (straight or gay or whatever) could have a big wedding and "celebrate" their love and wear nice clothes and release doves and get drunk while a bad band plays "You Light Up My Life". It's much more important and fundamental than that.

Yes, I have a "life partner" for want of a better term, but I think marriage was not made for us. As for my "gay lifestyle", I own a small business, I'm pursuing a career as an actor, I have been acting as Power of Attorney for my 91 year-old father, helping him get into assisted living, managing his money and looking out for his interests. Some of my sinful, twisted gay friends also own businesses (in one case a drug and alcohol rehab which has helped thousands of people keep their lives and families together) and we all pay our taxes, obey the law, mind our business and ask only that people accept the fact that we exist and have the right to exist and live in peace.

I don't want to force my "lifestyle" on anyone, certainly not children. I want to be left alone to live in peace. The views expressed by those radicals in Mr Knight's article always send a chill down my spine, because I know that THAT is what most people think of when they hear about gay rights, as though that's what we all believe.

Believe me, it is NOT!

Swampfox
Do you think that changing the culture's attitude toward tolerance of gays is going to lower suicide rates among gays? Honest question.

fred
Unfortuneatly it's the extreme elements that get all the media attention and thus fueling the stereotype. The loudest voice seems to be the one everyone hears.

Your POV though is refreshing and needs a bigger voice in this debate.

To western bondsman
I would hope that more tolerance would lower the suicide rate. As I believe that I have told you, I just thought I was the only one in my school/town.

To Fred
I am with you. Heck, I live in South Carolina. I would have to ask you, what did you go through when you went through high school?

I also vote Republican,Democrats are:
Wrong on taxes.
Wrong on the war on terror.
Wrong on illegal immigration.
Wrong on when they won't allow us to drill in Anwar or off our coasts. (I saw a poll yesterday that said a majority of Democrats would like to nationalize our oil companies.)


Better article on the subject?
Here is a link to the Volokh Conspiracy website where they have a good discussion that does more justice to the subject at hand:

http://volokh.com/posts/1213748649.shtml

Swampfox
That was you in the hospital, not all of the others. Just because your sexuality caused your depression, it doesn't mean that was the cause of the others'. You are just speculating.

Some good posts here
Mitt Romney is not to blame! Joan, an earlier poster, is absolutely right. Mitt Romnney was under a court order. Don't blame him for the Mass. debacle. He also actively promoted legislation to try to curb the spread of it to other states.

As for promoting the gay lifestyle, (which gay marriage will do) can you promote your child going into the barnyard and eating manure. The lifestyle is not only immoral but it is especially devastating and unhealthy to the minds and bodies of those who practice it. How is it possible that people can't see that it is simply not charitable to promote something or, through your apathy, help the cancerous malignancy to spread and grow. The practice of homosexuality causes so much harm to the people that practice this behavior. It is simply not even charitable to promote it.

Also, you can stick your head in the sand, like My Pet Goat in her post and say, "this does't effect me" but it does and it will. Think of all the lawsuits... Oh my gosh, the list of malfunction in our society would go on and on... Island added a good post here on that subject. Look at the loss of freedom in Canada starting with this issue. Truly the sky is falling already!

Swampfox
Mountain Rose called me western "bondage" yesterday on another thread (I think she thought I was gay). Not sure how to take "bondsman"....could be good, could be bad?

Anyway, I would hope it would as well. I am not convinced it really will though. Maybe because the root of gay suicide seems to differ so much between individuals to fall under one banner of gay tolerance.

It would be nice to think (and hope) that it would lower the rate, but to blame much of gay suicide on intolerance seems like a long stretch.


sky is falling
the sky is falling . it started this week the second the first couple said I do. in 5 years you will be paying the same attention to homosexuals marrying as you are today to homosexuals having an easier time staying in the service. it will passs as a whisper in th night, you will have to be very sharp to notice it. you wont knowm whether the couple next door is a married homsexual couple or
two straights who happen to enjoy sodomy. chalk up anothe win one for the liberals. give us enough time . well make you happier in spite of yourself

What's the big deal?
Judges didn't invent marriage.

Judges cannot re-invent marriage.

No matter what they call it, gay unions will never be marriages. Why not let the little darlings have their fun and call it whatever they want to call it? Que Sera Sera!

Seriously, the long-term societal implications are alarming. Even more alarming is the large number of so-called-Christians who accept the gay agenda and celebrate the sin of homosexuality.

My children will be taught that marriage is a commitment between one man and one woman for one lifetime... period. And I will not allow them to attend a public school that will undermine that value... period.

Watch for my name in the papers; I may be sued for teaching such "heresy" to my children.

So be it.

oddities
I find the thought of male homosexual acts to be a bit nauseating as well. (Although oddly that does not extend to female homosexual acts which tend to be ignored in all of these discussions. Women actual have more risk from sex from heterosexual behavior). I suppose there are two ways of dealing with this feeling. One is to actively work to discriminate against homosexuals. The other is to not think about make homosexual acts. I have found that the latter course works quite well for me.

But it does puzzle me why there are so many supposed heterosexuals who think that the gays are going to steal our people. Do you find the idea of homosexuality pleasing and so have to fight to resist the urge to become one? It is hard to think of any more useless endeavour than trying to convince heterosexuals to become homosexual. But then I am only talking from ny own inner experiences, maybe some people are less heterosexual than others.

Romney IS to blame....
Read the Goodridge decision. All Marshall said was that it is a violation of the MA Constitution for there to be any distinction made between men and women. Unlike California, this wasn't a due process decision - it was that the State ERA amendment, passed in the '70s, means male = female.

Romney could have done three things. The first, and most effective, would have been to say - OK, I will follow the court's order and unless the legislature acts, six months from now I will order all police officers to stop enforcing all gender specific rules. Ladies, that means that your lesbian locker rooms will now have guys in them. (Lesbians may want to marry, but they hate men more and the "separatists" would have prevailed.)

The second would have been to stop issuing marriage licenses six months hence. Marshall only said that he couldn't evaluate the genders of the parties to a marriage, nothing about having to issue them -- and there is no part of Massachusetts more than a half hour away from another state. "Get married now or go to New Hampshire (Vermont, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island)" he could have said -- and also gotten a lot of young couples married.

The third would have been to do EXACTLY what the court ordered, and issue the traditional "Husband/Wife" marriage licenses and simply ask the gay couple which wished to be called "husband" and which "wife."

0h - and he could have supported the Constitutional Amendment the FIRST TWO TIMES IT WENT IN FRONT OF THE LEGISLATURE, back when there were enough votes to pass it. Supporting it while running for President, knowing that it was then doomed, gave him a way to claim to oppose gay marriage while actually, well....

Swampwater, PAY ATTENTION!
Swampwater says: Better article on the subject?
Here is a link to the Volokh Conspiracy website where they have a good discussion that does more justice to the subject at hand:

http://volokh.com/posts/1213748649.shtml
_______________________________

Swampwater, we've told you this 53,486,149 times: PAY ATTENTION!

Why should we pay any attention at all to a homosexual, whether or not celibate, virgin, who is confused about one of the most fundamental phenomena of normal human life, the purpose of the complementary genitals?

Why? You are truly, really, seriously screwed up. And to make it worse, you don't participate, apparently, in what matthew calls the 'glorious' anal 'sex.'

where, oh, where are the resident TH...

...homosexuals?????????

Most Oppose Same-Sex Marriage, But CBS Focuses on Growing Support CBS's own poll found more than two-thirds of Americans oppose same-sex marriage, but CBS News over the past few days gave a lot more time to supporters.
______________________________________

There you go, CBS' own poll finding that normal people oppose homosexual 'marriage.'

Why would anyone be surprised at that?

WHAT IS INDEED SURPRISING IS THE ABSENCE OF THE RESIDENT TOWNHALL HOMSEXUALS! WHERE ARE THEY? WHY ARE THEY NOT DEFENDING THEIR PUTREFYING HABITS? Only Swampwater has the courage to defend the nasty habits THAT HE DOESN'T PARTICIPATE IN. Now, he is a very sincere, frank person, and has told us 4,782,944 times about his suicide, that is, his suicide attempt, why won't he tell us the reasons for his not participating in the infamous homosexual promiscuity?

Selective Information
I could cut and paste from Fred Phelps and make the claim that his rantings represent the real intent of Chrisitans. That woudl be about as honest as what Knight has done here.


To western bondbeam
Rose gets a bit carried away at times.

I can only hope/pray that more tolerance would make it easier for the next generation that has to deal with their homosexuality in our society.

Okay, So Now What?
In retrospect it's easy to see how the sexual revolution led to increased promiscuity and the spread of venereal diseases. Fair enough -- although some would argue that it was worth it.

So let the other shoe drop: in a similar vein, what actual unpleasant consequences do Mr. Knight and his ideological cohort foresee as results of gay marriage? What specifically?

-CB-

Pirate
Pirate said: "And anyone thinking of Mitt Romney for VP needs to remember this...."

With all the challenges confronting America, why should Romney's allowing gay marriage when he was governor even be on the list of possible objections to having him as VP, let alone be considered a show-stopper? Surely there are more important things to consider.


-CB-


What "Long-Term Societal Implications?"
I'd Rather Be In Alaska wrote: "Seriously, the long-term societal implications [of gay marriage] are alarming."

Okay, so what ARE those long-term societal implications? Lay 'em on us.


-CB-

Swampwater, you refuse to...
Subject: To western bondbeam
Rose gets a bit carried away at times.

I can only hope/pray that more tolerance would make it easier for the next generation that has to deal with their homosexuality in our society.
_________________________________

Swampwater, you refuse to understand that we will not give 'more' tolerance to putrefying homosexual habits. Ever. Hope and pray all you want.

And, actually, homosexuals do not want tolerance, they want acceptance. How can normal people accept perversions? How can normal people accept confusion about the purpose for the complementary genitals? How?

The way for us to deal with homosexuality is to stop the homosexual whining for special rights, to stop the homosexual proselytizing of children, to stop the homosexual public flaunting of homosexual perversions.

Homosexuals need to go back to modesty and discretion.

Swampfox
Rose? Carried away? Really? I will be forewarned for future refernce.

Seriously though, I appreciate your perspective on the gay tolerance issue. Like Fred, your voice should be heard as well. Interesting article on the voikh.com you listed earlier.

Why not make civil marriage be change?
Contracts for property rights and communal living should be able to grant to all plants and animals involved the equal recognition desired by those who claim to be some part of the Gay world. It may be hard to determine who owns what when two men, three women, a dog and some plants are all claiming their contract to be a marriage fails!

Religious practices can be just as open as any secular device, but some tend to get confused by biological truths as evidenced in the Bible, or the Koran or any other religious document.

The noise would go away if we just let Christians and jews and Muslims limit use of the words sacramental marriage to configurations capable of being identified as a male and female couple. Let their churches sort out what to do with Bishops who divorce or just live with wives, children and gay lovers or promiscuous males or females of the opposite or same sex.





I just checked and....
... the sky is NOT falling!!!!!

All the posts against gay marriage sound so myopic and silly. They are all variations on the theme that either their hetero marriage might be affected by some homosexual couple getting married, they think god has something against them getting married or both.

I have read them all, and have yet to see a credible argument that there could be any such link. If your god doesn't like it, fine. But that doesn't mean my god cares one way or the other.

I didn't notice my relationship toward my wife and kids was changed in any way at all. How was yours changed?

Are the people against gay marriage really so insecure and insincere that their attitude toward their spouses and children changes because some gay or lesbian couple gets married in California or Massachussetes?

I just don't get it. What strange people populate the social topics at TH.

To western bondbeam
Thanks for the comment.

To slaker
Of all the sexual sins one can commit, it appears that being/admitting that you are homosexual seems to top all the others.

The conservative columnists on this board could never get the number of responses that the gay issue receives with a condemnation of adultery, divorce and dead beat dads.

Swampfox
Your welcome.

@swampfox
"Conservative" columnists tackle the gay issue because its easy and raises money. Its a scare tacit. They have failed on divorce, they have failed on abortion, they have failed on pretty much everything they have railed against. And they will fail here too. Most of the people on this who rail against the 'evil homosexual' are on the wrong side of history. Their kind is dwindling more and more every year.

People should be worried about real problems. Raising their kids, protecting their families, working and living instead of worrying how two consenting adults live and raise their families that doesn't effect anyone else in the slightest.

the sky is not falling? pet goat
Just the nations morals!
I have a suggestion for PET GOAT... marry your goat..if things go sour in your marriage!
Beware..that goat may be HORNy!

elvis

To elvis
Elvis is a strange screen name to have chosen to take pot shots against gays and lesbians. Elvis could not keep his pants up, like Bill Clinton and had a huge drug problem that took his life far too early.

swampie......smile
Goes to show ya' that we all are individuals!
But HE had his qualities..and paid the maximum
price for his follies! And yes he died way too early! I always have said" it's too bad that he
wasn't surrounded by someone stronger than him to influence him to get off of that crap! And
what wonders he could have performed if he had the strength to stop and hold large assemblies
and tell the youth of america...don't use drugs
I did it isn't worth it!" What an impact for good! He was very giving,adored his parents,didnt dodge his military draft like b/ clinton! And was one great motivator and singer!
And despite his weaknesses he did believe in ...
diety! Our first interchange......
elvis


swampie...smile
Goes to show ya' that we all are individuals!
But HE had his qualities..and paid the maximum
price for his follies! And yes he died way too early! I always have said" it's too bad that he
wasn't surrounded by someone stronger than him to influence him to get off of that crap! And
what wonders he could have performed if he had the strength to stop and hold large assemblies
and tell the youth of america...don't use drugs
I did it isn't worth it!" What an impact for good! He was very giving,adored his parents,didnt dodge his military draft like b/ clinton! And was one great motivator and singer!
And despite his weaknesses he did believe in ...
diety! Our first interchange......
elvis


To Elvis
Elvis was huge talent. But he had some very deep flaws. He left us too soon.

swampfox....
Amen!
elvis

narrow definitions and broad brushes
When this subject comes up, the issue of homosexuality is expanded to worst case scenarios of sexual behavior that isn't homosexual, but is about sex generally.
Heterosexuals are not immune to disease, promiscuity and lack of committing to each other. Patchwork information and stereotype prevail where gay men in particular are concerned, the gender bias even within context of homosexuality is evident here.

Robert Knight knows he's dealing with your basest fears and primal prejudices. And most people here seem assured they won't have or don't have gay children.

Westernbondbeam as a question, but Irene Adler arrogantly assumes she requires 'proof' that gay kid's suicide rate is higher for that reason.
That's an easy one Irene. Gay children are presented with an abominable and frustrating list of hypocrisy and contradiction. Gay children are not confused BY being gay, they are confused by the heterosexual assertion that heterosexuality ALONE requires NO challenges or proof of virtue or the same requirements for basic priviledges.

con't
One of the first is being told that they have a choice in being gay, when that child knows they don't. CONSTANTLY that's argued here and homosexuality is called a 'lifestyle' when heterosexuality is not.
That is SO STUPID, yet few can't get off that stupid opinion. It's almost from there ALL other stereotype and militant prejudice flows.

And few gay people can convince anyone they didn't CHOOSE to be gay, nor can choose to NOT feel attraction, want to love, be loved and cared for by someone JUST LIKE THEM.
And gay children are NOT supported in that goal, but are isolated by emotional blackmail or fear that their orientation will make them inevitably die of disease, be under constant scrutiny and will have no support from their parents. And gay children or those PERCEIVED to be are bullied, abandoned or emotionally denied to the point of suicide.

It's not gay people who are confused, but militantly ignorant heterosexuals who assume MUCH that's negative, deny the positive and are convinced of a supremacy that doesn't exist.
I'm not gay, but I sit here frustrated at the lecturing on homosexuality, while homosexuals can't participate with the truth of their experience.
As a woman Irene, I'm sure you wouldn't want a MAN telling you how you have to act, be and what you're meant to put up with because you're a woman. So no heterosexual alive has the ability, moral supremacy or physical superiority to make any judgements. ALL heterosexuals have is being more common, and eager to be arrogant and abusive about that position.

If I hear ...
gays are denied, bullied, abandoned, or any more of that drivel I will just blow a gasket. There may have been a time .. but that ain't now. Not mainstream. Not happening.

Gays use that crap to endorse an in-your-face rheortic. I, for one, am sick of it.

You cannot excuse an evil lifestyle by blaming me. I wake up each morning knowing I have to work, support my family, and all the other things living in this country where honest and straight forward living folks are being battered from all sides. I HAVE NO TIME to go out and bully, emotionally deny, or abandon anybody. I raised my two kids to adulthood, and they are enough for me to worry about.

My Pet Goat ... keep living in that cocoon of ignorance. Until one day you wake up and the happening is upon you. Then you can decry the complacence of the government, the courts, and your church. It will matter not one whit, you have blithely gone about your cackling way while the sky is clouding up to fall ... keep cackling ... maybe the friggin' goat will butt some sense into you one day. If your husband doesn't wake up and let you know he has decided to co-marry the potted plant in the livingroom to make ya'll a threesome.

gender isn't color isn't sexual orientat
Gender isn't one's color, and sexual orientation isn't one's culture of origin: that's right, being gay doesn't carry the SAME legacy as being black, but neither does being a Jew or female.
But there is enough in common with the legacy of discrimination, the threat of violence or outright programs of subjugation that make the claim of a human and civil rights issue legitimate. Obviously being of color is natural and normal, but depending on who was in power of black lives, could convince the masses that blacks are criminally dangerous and sexually aggressive and morally reprobate.
Color, like gender is an easier way of achieving segregation, but by no means has one's normalcy, moral accountability or character been protection enough from being violated.
One's difference, not civility IS a character assessment. And THAT is what gay people are not allowed to live down, no matter what they say or do.

living among the evil
I am in law enforcement in Los Angeles. I am a forensic photographer. A crime scene photographer. I wonder if there is any bottom to human depravity, arrogance, or stupidity. Even in such times of greater opportunity. It's so ludicrous for me to get lectured about what and who are threats to marriage, family and children as if I wouldn't KNOW already.
Heterosexuals as whole are not judged by the worst case scenarios to be undeserving of any life and love affirming institutions. So homosexuals being treated or spoken of as such, truly makes no sense.
I see no perspective and certainly not the CORRECT perspectives.
Robert Knight's article is ludicrous given what EVERYONE has to deal with in this country. Heterosexual or not, but DELIBERATELY complicating a gay person's life as if they don't have to share the same responsibilities isn't about helping preserve what's good, but being spiteful within a wrongful assumption.
This is about FAR more than marriage. This is also about children who are gay. They are not 'turned'. They've ALWAYS been homosexual, but looking at this thread, how could any of them reveal that without some form of even well meaning stupidity coming their way?
So, as in the same way I'm talked down to, as if I don't know what evil is, a good many of you talking down to gay folks as if they don't know themselves...is a sure sign of arrogance, not charity or interest in furthering a compassionate agenda.

du
Would anyone accept as fact the pronouncement that "my motivation for this behavior is x, therefore everyone's motivation is also x" if it were any other topic? If so, they are incredibly naive and/or stupid.

You call my statement arrogant, then you go on to assert your opinions in a supercilious manner. Nice try, but your saying something doesn't make it true. There are no facts to back you up, no matter how much you'd like to believe it is so.

hi Ken
Nice to see that you're not equally about to blow a gasket when TH writers like Robert Knight, Matt Barber, Kevin McCollough, Maggie Gallegher or Bsp. Harry Jackson are claiming that each and every American is under attack by the militant homosexuals, or will be persecuted by the homosexual agenda.
Looks to me like TH is guiltier of it, because their perception is off the chain.
I sit here trying every possible angle to show that gay people could be considerable ALLIES, against bigger and harsher things all citizens have to deal with.
But no, the victimhood card has been played from the bottom of the deck by TH.
Proof? The last word in the title of the article 'yet'...
Meaning, we're supposed to sit and wait until the sky really does fall?
Or can you all quit your bit*hing because it never will?

you bring it Irene
Welll then Irene, WHAT facts WOULD convince YOU? I mean who are YOU to demand them. Gay people are the ones accused, so isn't it YOUR side that's got the burden of proof? What FACTS do you think you're entitled to?
I mean, that gay folks are civilized and have children to raise and the war to fight and jobs to keep aren't enough for you?
The superciliousness is the plank in your own eye. Gay folks have brought enough, it's YOUR street that has to come REASONABLY halfway.
The problem is, the pack here isn't close to reasonable, in need of facts other than an extreme need to have their non existent supremacy validated.
It's your call Irene, and there aren't enough facts or ANY facts that would matter.
Because you haven't mentioned AT ALL what facts coming from gay people would.

du
Bring it on? Are we having a rumble? Who am i to demand facts? Are you kidding? I (as well as everyone else) am entitled to any facts available, rather than your hysterics. One cannot make a judgement - let alone a law - based on histrionics.

And what is this my side...your side? How about using logic instead of throwing a tantrum?

The sky isn't falling?
Nope, it's still all there. Just as it was still there for the past 3000+ years that marriage has been around. True, traditional marriage, that is.

Yet, prior to the idiotic decision of power mad judges in California, homosexuals and their appeasers ran around like chickens with their heads cut off screaming about how the sky was falling because of the "fascists refusing equal 'rights'" and the hysteria about the "coming theocracy!" So are we to believe that now that the deviants and their drug inspired supporters have gotten their way, the sky no longer threatens to fall?

Marriage is a not a government given right. It never has been (until a government entity attempts to usurp it). Throughout history, it has always been a privilege conferred by SOCIETY on the potentially productive union of a man and a woman. Why? Because even the potential offspring of such a union are beneficial to society by providing new healthy minds and bodies for the future advancement of the society.

Please enumerate the actual benefits of homosexual "marriage" to the rest of society. There are none. Explain to me how the private "pleasure" of two people advances the goals of society. It doesn't. Explain to me how this act of "private pleasure" can possibly equate to the act of human reproduction. It can't. Homosexuality is nothing but an act of self-degrading, self-loving perversion because someone can't figure out how to control their desires!

Instead, you deviants and those who affirm their self delusions will cheer for this assault on the morals of society as a "great triumph." Homosexuals can only reproduce through the corruption of the children of heterosexuals. This is why there is such a strong push for sexual experimentation (finding their orientation) in schools - to corrupt the minds of children too young to be thinking about sex or fully understand the consequences and purposes of it.

exactly Irene!
One can't make a law based on histrionics.
Therefore, heterosexuals with prejudice, bigoted motive, using worst case scenarios ALSO equal to heterosexual behavior and lacking in facts that gay people are a criminal or dangerous element in society....ARE trying to use fear, hysteria, myth and stereotype to abuse or make laws against gay citizens.

So, it's right for gay people to challenge the hysteria MONGERING of Robert Knight and the laws that compromise a gay person's full function within society. There is NO VALID reason to, and religiuos belief isn't good enough and can't be if you're not applying the SAME STANDARDS to heterosexuals.
See, it's THAT simple.
And heterosexuals are simply mor COMMON, and being hetero, as I keep saying, is no indicator of virtue or character. That what sexual orientation means.

Oh right, you DON'T know a thing about sexual orientation...but you want laws based on similar ignorance to yours.
Can't be having that either. Have a nice day.

du
Again, you're hysterical. If you will review my prior posts, you might note that I was responding to Swampfox's assertion regarding homosexual suicide rates. Nothing more, nothing less.

At least you're consistent with your rantings and lunacy. I suppose when you don't understand you must attack.

alright then, Irene
I'm responding to you as well. And I hope you take this answer as something that is part of a whole. Just in the last two days there is a revelation that almost 20 girls, age 16 and under made a pregnancy pact. Evidently the common reason was to 'have someone love them'. I know too, from living in the gang capital of the world that gang membership and indoctrination into risky behaviors requires many voids in a young person's life.

Young people need someone to understand them, love them, discipline them. There is a wide line from discipline to abuse, and gay children are subjected to a different kind of isolation, they are literally set up to fail before they fully realize themselves because of the ignorance and fear you yourself display. They may have good, attentive parents who change that attentiveness to isolation once the orientation of their child is revealed.

The child knows they didn't choose to be gay, so a parent asserting it's some kind of rebellion, addiction or risky behavior unto itself is horribly misinformed and they will put their gay child MORE at risk by not loving and supporting them within that orientation, not choice.

con't
The key word here is understanding their child. If a parent is ignorant or misunderstands their child's cues or relies on misinformation, they will all be betrayed.
This happens more often to gay children out of that ignorance and fear.
And when gay children are confronted with separate standards that don't apply to their hetero siblings, it's confusing and damaging.
Your opinion seems to stem from homosexuality as a character weakness that makes gay young people more susceptible to high risk behaviors.
That is not the case. They are at risk for the same problems as ANY child who has no emotional support or understanding or love from their famiiles.
And this is particularly difficult in situations where all the other children in the family are supported otherwise.
I'm far from hysterical, teens are mutating, sexually tense and confused by all the mixed, if not crazy messages from the adults around them.
And gay children especially get schizophrenic messages, that will never apply to them.
That is the contributive factor to pathology AMONG gay children. But homosexuality is by no means a pathology unto itself.
I've done the work of dealing with gay children directly and fairly for many years.
Now, if you'd rather use some kind of ridicule and contempt towards me, instead of talking about how society is treating teens the wrong way, maybe that's why it still goes on when it doesn't have to.

du
I feel nothing but ridicule and contempt for you. Once again, I will tell you that I read some of these studies. The authors - who were advocates for homosexuals and, therefore, actively trying to prove a connection - could not find the proof. You keep telling me there is a connection, but there is no proof.

As to your statement: "Your opinion seems to stem from homosexuality as a character weakness that makes gay young people more susceptible to high risk behaviors"

You have no idea what my opinion is, despite what you feel. Unfortunately, you keep feeling, but you fail to think.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.