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Sunday, May 04, 2008
Robert Bluey :: Townhall.com Columnist
Polar Bear Politics
by Robert Bluey
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Talk about bad timing. Gas prices are spiking and U.S. energy policy is contributing to skyrocketing food costs, yet environmentalists apparently want to make it even more expensive to live in America. And they’re trying to use the polar bear to do it.

A federal judge in California ruled last week that the Bush administration must decide by May 15 whether to list the polar bear under the Endangered Species Act because of global warming. The upcoming deadline is fueling fears that Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne could cave to left-wing environmentalists.

Listing the polar bear as a threatened species would be a devastating blow for U.S. energy exploration and a boon to global-warming alarmists.

The classification would open the door for environmentalists to challenge any new forms of energy production -- including oil exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) or new power plants and factories that emit fossil fuels. It also would jeopardize a highly promising arrangement in Alaska’s Chukchi Sea, which contains an estimated 15 billion barrels of oil and 76 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

Now is not the time to cut back on domestic oil production. With gas prices soaring to nearly $4 per gallon in some parts of the country, there’s hardly been a better time to embark on energy exploration in the United States to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

“Alaska is America’s last best frontier for domestic oil and natural gas,” Ben Lieberman of The Heritage Foundation said in arguing against the polar bear’s listing. “Closing off these potential resources would add to energy prices for decades to come and increase reliance on imports.”

Worse still is that classifying the polar bear as threatened under the Endangered Species Act would put America’s energy policy in the hands of activist judges. Environmentalists who want to halt construction of a power plant in Minnesota, for instance, could simply run to court complaining how it would harm the polar bear.

Liberal environmentalists who are lobbying for the polar bear’s listing insist that it’s necessary. “We hope that this decision marks the end of the Bush administration’s delays and denial so that immediate action may be taken to protect polar bears from extinction,” said Melanie Duchin of Greenpeace. Added Kassie Siegel of the Center for Biological Diversity: “The polar bear should receive the protections it deserves under the Endangered Species Act, which is the first step toward saving the polar bear and the entire Arctic ecosystem from global warming.”

But environmentalists conveniently ignore the facts about the bears’ growing populations in Alaska, Canada, Russia and other countries. According to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, between 20,000 to 25,000 polar bears live around the world today, up significantly from the 8,000 to 10,000 in the 1960s. The alarmist views about global warming clearly don’t jive with the facts.

Our neighbors to the north in Canada also recognize the polar bear isn’t threatened or endangered. In fact, Canada’s Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife, an independent group of scientists, said last month the bears deserve merely “special concern” status, the weakest classification in Canada.

“Based on the best available information at hand, there was insufficient reason to think that the polar bear was at imminent risk of extinction,” wrote committee chairman Jeffrey Hutchings.

Some Canadians wouldn’t even go as far as the scientists. The Inuit Indians depend on the polar bear for their livelihood. An endangerment listing would be devastating for the tribe. “We don’t believe the scientists’ information any more. [Hunters] will ignore new quotas,” said Jayko Alooloo of the Hunters and Trappers Organization in Pond Inlet to The Canadian Press.

Rarely does the United States follow Canada’s lead, but this is certainly a case to do just that. As pressure mounts on Secretary Kempthorne to act, he needs to weigh the devastating consequences that listing the bear could have on the American people. The polar bear’s growing population, coupled with the likely litigation that would result from its listing, are sound reasons to leave it off the endangered species list.

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About The Author
Robert B. Bluey is director of the Center for Media & Public Policy at The Heritage Foundation and maintains a blog at RobertBluey.com
 
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Facts
Who needs them. The enviro-wackos aren't concerned with what happened. They are only interested in what might happen if, by chance, everything they predict comes to fruition.

Interestingly, the polar bears have survived previous warming trends. We know that the medieval warming was warmer than it is today and yet somehow the polar bears survived that time. Unless these enviro-wackos want to try to convince us that the polar bears evolved since then!?

A Young Father...
...of an 18-month old boy was killed in our neighborhood by illegal aliens. A 15-year old girl was raped by illegal aliens while she was waiting for the school bus.

And yet Nancy Pelosi et al are more worried about protecting polar bears from light bulbs.

It's a nutty country, my friend.

Gore-Bull Warming Hysteria
Everything the left does is surround with hysteria, but nothing has had their tidy-whities in a wad more than the fiction of Gore-Bull Warming.

But let us imagine that it was REALLY getting so hot that all the icebergs melt.

The planet is unlikely to flood, since frozen water expands. If all the icebergs melted, the water level would go down, not up.

But these fools never stayed awake in 5th grade science, proving that no Leftie is smarter than a 5th grader.

Polar Bears can swim

All of the hysteria over drowning Polar Bears is unwarrented, since Polar Bears are very good swimmers, thank you. They can swim for many miles, and often hunt seals and fish in this manner.

To all the Lefties who boo-hoo over the Canadian Clubbing of baby seals: I wonder if you ever considered the fact that a cute, big eyed baby seal makes a nice little snack for a mama bear. And she doesn't care if Green Peace has sprayed his coat with paint.

Recently, the patrons at the Stuttgart Zoo in Germany were horrified when the cute teenager bear Knute killed some carp that had been placed in his exhibit for "decoration." Since he didn't eat them, it appeared he killed them for fun.

Incidently, Germany is much, much warmer than the Arctic, and yet the Polar Bears seem to thrive.

This indicates that Polar Bears are not fragile at all, and are not likely to disappear even if Gore-Bull Warming is true.

Which I doubt.

So, all you Lefties out there: GET A GRIP!

The polar bear issue is a fraud
just like the rest of ther AGW scam. Now shark attacks are being blames on global warming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/may/04/wildlife. climatechange

The insanity continues.

For all of you whacj-jobs who
bemoan the fact that the U.S. did not ratify Kyoto there is this:

http://www.willisms.com/archives/2008/04/trivia_tidbit_o_48 9.html

It seems that you are better off by not siging Kyoto.

Not only are the polar bears NOT in

danger of extinction, their numbers have been GROWING in the past several years!!!!

While many of us "knew" this gloBULL warming was a hoax all along, the scientists are now finally coming out... in droves... and saying that there is NOTHING TO GLOBULL WARMING, and there NEVER WAS ANTHING TO IT.

And, oh yeah.. this pesky little gas thing.
Yup, it's those idiot environmentalists A-GAIN!!

It's NOT that we don't have plenty of oil right here in OUR OWN country...'cause we DO!!! The problem IS, the environmentalists have prevented us from drilling... and, they've prevented the oil companies from either building new refineries, or refurbishing existing ones... and they've been doing it for the past 40 YEARS!

And if THAT isn't enough for you... how about the high cost, and shortage of grains these days? Yup, give another round of applause to the environmentalist and their "bio-fuel" idea.


Now that I think of it, the crazy environmentalists have NOT had one good idea in 40 years.



Missing their Target
The environmentalists are doing their best to make Americans extinct. The sad thing is who they will end up killing is a lot of children in Africa and Asia. Starvation is a nasty way to go. The tree huggers should be on burial detail.

Anne...
The libs are trying to redefine the whole endangered species act. Their whole point isn't that the polar bears are presently in danger (as their numbers indicate) but that, if we don't do something now, the bears will be.

And they need no real proof that this will happen--it is just their belief that the climate is warming and will continue to do so and that this warming will at some point in the future endanger the bears. Talk about a scam!

NASA..
..just recently said we are entering a 30 year period of cooling because of the PDO (Pacific Decadal Oscillation), a shift if the ocean currents that happens about every 40 years. This is the same cycle that continues since we have been recording weather. NO more global warming for at least 30 years.

They are already concerned about the crops in the West because of the coming cold and there was a BOOM in production during this warming cycle that will come to an end.

Somebody needs to shut down the Goreites once and for all.

KL - science?
Note that just recently there was a conference in NY discussing global warming. Since it did not fall into the dogma of man creating global warming, it was not covered.

What they discovered was that it was the sun that was responsible for global warming and cooling.

DUH

Even a 5th grader could have told you that.



NASA
I do not believe the clap-trap from NASA regarding the Pacific Ocean currents. Methnksd they are trying to be cute to come up with an explanation that doesn't refute the fact that the sun's decrease in activity isthe real culprit for global warming and cooling.

Generally speaking, if ocean currents change it impacts local temperatures served by those currents. E.G. if the West Coast's temperatures decline then the temperatures somewhere else increase. The averages remain the same.

What does the institute at Wood's Hole say? What does the weather people say? NASA is only in the buiness of measuring temperature.

Gorebull warming scam
finally more and more folks are realizing the b.s. for what it is. yet we have McCain still believing the crap.By the way, I have been working with the polar bear for some time and have gotten them to taste just like chicken

GREAT BIG GREEN MACHINE
This is no time to STRADDLE. The American People are sick and tired of its political leadership (Bush) ladeling soup instead of cutting cake. ANWR is not a bits and pieces scenario - it is a measure demanding presidential command.

The public land reserve in question is less then the area of a medium sized airport, a Kansas City not an O'Hare and the drilling and pump technologies are far less environmentally invasive.

An Executive Decision between jobs and energy security versus Greeniac Scrabble does not require advanced education from Harvard Law, Yale Law, or the Harvard Business School; it demands clear Lincolnesque you can't please them all decisiveness.

I posited previously my belief that the Great Big Green Machine is secretly being funded by Saudi Big Oil; ergo, the silent monies for the environmental movement comes from the Islamic Oil Interests and this latest push to keep the US eternally dependent on Middle East oil sources only goes further to prove that point. This is a tactic whereby the enemy nibbles instead of chops at our strength

This type of economic subterfuge was practiced by the Nazis in South America during the 1930's.

Hundredths of a degree
That could set the Goreites off declaring the "hottest" year ever....matter of fact, I think it was about 54.55 vs 54.59 the difference between the "hottest" and coolest.

Smarter than a fifth grader?
Not!

Were it not for the danger they pose to the rest of the sane world, liberals and their antics would be amusing to observe.

Make up anything, and believe it with all your heart. Evidence to the contrary be darned!
(Use your emotion instead of your brain.)

Cry and whine when nobody is paying attention to your asinine theories and assertions. Throw a tantrum, if necessary.
(The debate is over! We have concensus! You can't question us! Don't bother us with facts! You just don't get it!)

When you still don't get what you want, run to mommy and have her try to force the issue.
( I'll sue! Lets get the government to pass our opinion and wishes into law!)

Just like a fifth grader.

I CLAVDIVS
I believe you are correct , sir. As i posted on another thread, if an executive order were issued to drill for our own oil OPEC would flood the market making it not profitable enough to get our own resources. Gas would be 2 bucks a gallon before the first drill bit hit the ground. Take it to the bank

Nature
Researchers belonging to the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, or IPCC, reported in Nature (May 1) that after adjusting their climate model to reflect actual sea surface temperatures of the last 50 years, "global surface temperature may not increase over the next decade, as natural climate variations … temporarily offset the projected anthropogenic warming."

That's what the "deniers" have said all along, that nature governs the temperature and corrects itself when necessary.

...Nature, May 1st

Polar Bear Politicsv
Is there no end to left wing lunacy? If I were the President, I would go on nationwide TV and cite scientific evidence you cited and tell that judge right where to go. That alone might put the Republicans in the White House.

I would also ask,"So you left wingers want to pay $4.00 a gallon for gas or ride bicycles?" It seems to me like we need another Harry Truman. He was not a popular President but said what needed to be said.

Arrogance
That's what it is. The audacity of humans to think that nature will be corrected because we will stop using fossil fuels. WE humans are insignificant in the large scheme of things. Nature will correct and has corrected itself now as it has in the past. No matter what verbiage is used to say it, Global Warming is a bunch of liberal gibberish used as a tool to profit from the liberal form of government.

Arrogant idiots....

Oh, and I almost forgot...

Remember those fires in CA (and elsewhere)????

They would not have cost so much in property damage had the stupid greenie/environmentalists allowed homeowners to CLEAR THE DEAD BRUSH from around their homes!

That's DEAD BRUSH... as in dry kindling!!!!


Another round of applause for these idiots!



King Liberal
Pot meet kettle. all liberals and their "ilk" do is to rant and spout talking points with no real ideas to advance our self interests. This sir is why YOU are going down in Nov. All hat and no cattle

TSK, TSK
King liberal

Did I touch a nerve? Too close to home? AWW...

King Liberal
I have advanced a position concerning GOP and globull warming see above post at 9:58 as well as an idea, see above post at 10:13. You can read, can't you

hatercrusher: Actually, there has been

an ongoing debate about whether "typical liberals" can read... or not..

So far, the evidence looks like "NOT."



Questions for All
Who will win the survival of the fittest contest "Humans" or "Earth"?

How could the god of the environment evolve a creature that will destroy the god who evolved it?

Millions of creatures have NOT survived and the earth has survied?

What if the god of the environment wants to kill off some creatures?

Will the environmentalists continue to fight their god for supremacy?


King Liberal
Agreed, I cannot for the life of me understand why McCain embraces the tenets of AWG other than to possibly appeal to a broader base. He will however get my vote although there are MANY things that I feel he is completely wrong on. That being said I feel that he has it right on taxes and the war. As I contributed 74000.00 to the feds last year and have a son in Iraq those are the most important issues to me at this point in time

typo
Sorry, ment to say AGW Im new at this

Endangered Species
"But environmentalists conveniently ignore the facts about the bears’ growing populations in Alaska, Canada, Russia and other countries. According to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, between 20,000 to 25,000 polar bears live around the world today, up significantly from the 8,000 to 10,000 in the 1960s. The alarmist views about global warming clearly don’t jive with the facts."

So even as these polar pests breed like rats and infest the arctic wastelands the Marxists are using them as poster children for their latest scheme to impose government control over the economy.And now we hear that the ever-cowardly wimps in the Bush Administration are about to cave in and help them do it. If only actual Republicans were in as good of shape as the burgeoning polar bear. What has made them disappear so completely? Why arent they correctly laying the blame for high energy and food prices on the misguided social engineering schemes of these leftist idiots instead of considering whether its wise to join them? Its called leadership you morons!

Gofer
That NASA study really bummed me out. Just when it looked like time would make the AGW loonies look exactly like the loons they are, along comes a perfect excuse to postpone reality for another 10 years. Well, its complicated enough so most folks won't understand the claims, and since the average attention span is so short, when we don't all burn up by 2020, no one will be paying attention anyway.

Strategic ceiling
The Arab oil embargo in 1973 was all the reason the US govt needed to develop oil shale/oil sand technology to put a ceiling on the cost of imported oil. I am no fan of govt interference with the market, but its too much to expect private capitol to invest in technology that can be made unprofitable overnight. However, for strategic reasons, the govt can well afford to do this. LIke the B-36, never used in combat, it was a good investment in security. However, it does look like with honest demand so high and obviously going higher, private capitol is eyeing the risk with less aversion. Israel has an oil sand processing operation in Canada i understand.

King Liberal
We should be developing nuclear as well as going for the oceans of oil we are sitting on. It must and will be done in an environmentally responsible manner. I beleive we should conserve as well but government mandated light bulbs and such are insane. Where taxes are concerned you are right, there is no guarantee concerning McMain but there is a guarantee with the other 2 socialists. They have promised as much

King Liberal
As you note, nuclear power is another option that is long overdue for implementation. I seem to remember the Krauts flew the Me-109 on fuel manufactured from coal. Might be another avenue there. We are all environmentalists. Some folks have their priorities so messed up they are envirowhackos though.

Why GOP Turncoats?
King Liberal asks: "...why don't take amoment an dexplain why are som many in the GOP suddenly pro-Global Warming/climate change?"
******************************************

Alas, all politicians are hoez and the GOPpers are no exception.

They know that there are a lot of brainwashed morons out there that believe in the Gore-Bull Warming Fairy Tale. They also know that those brainwashed morons vote.

They are pandering to the lowest common denomonator: the 18-year old girl who boo-hoos because Boo-Boo Bear is floating on a loose chunk of iceberg.

Robert
This an adult discussion - scat - go debate with the other children.

It sure looks to me
Like Wobbie is talking to himself again. But then he's the only one that'll listen to him, or he'll listen to, so it's just as well.

None
Regarding the fact that Lefties are funny, I think of the old saying, that when the Left are out of power they are funny, but when they have power, they are dangerous.

Wobbie: Saddam VS Gore-Bullies
Robert writes: Sunday, May, 04, 2008 11:49 AM
I alwasys find it ironic that those who
bought the "Saddam has WMD and is coming to kill us" argument with NO EVIDENCE are so against global warming theories.
Robert
******************************************

What's the diff?

The notion of Saddam possing WMD and planning to use them is hundreds of times more plausable than the notion of Gore-Bull Warming.

First of all, we have the evidence that Saddam DID have WMD, and actually USED them.

In the case of Gore-Bull Warming, when one actually watches the weather, one can see that we have just had the two COLDEST winters in recent memory.

Meanwhile, the Lefties were claiming that the hurricanes were going to be increasing in intensity and frequency, and yet the opposite has proven to be true. Hurricanes decreased the last couple of years.

We have also seen the Lefties attempt at predicting the weather. The more they use their bogus computer models, the more they are inaccurate. If they can't even get the next week right, how can I trust them to get the next 20 years right?

ONE MORE THING: when the evidence showed that there was no WMD to be found (though there were plans to resume making them when the inspectors left), we stopped saying there was WMD.

However, the more that there is evidence that Gore-Bull Warming is a FRAUD, the more the Gore-Bullies get louder and more obnoxious to claim it is real.

Quite a diff.

Savage99 @11:45
If government hadn't taken half the operating capitol of all our businesses and industries every year since WWII, we would have all those private-industry-provided things the democ-rats say that we should be taxed to provide now.

The Boo-Hoo Bear iceberg was computer generated, and a polar bear can swim 50 miles at a time.

We the people pay all taxes, and are the only ultimate source of all tax revenue, so there should be ONLY ONE TAX to collect all revenue for each level of government.

re: wmd's

Used to try to make bet with co-workers.

Give me a week to hide 55 gsllon drum somewhere in the state( to represent enough sarin to wipe out major city).

I give them a year to find it.

Nobody wanted to take the bet.

Not finding it proves only that you couldn't find it.

Why does the Left rely on Hysteria
to promote their pet projects?

Think about it. Every thing the Left wants to accomplish is accompanied with hysterical exaggerations about the consequences of ignoring their "sky is falling" warnings.

The Lefties are entirely motivated by their emotions, and believe that emotionality is the best way to motivate others.

This is the way they raise their children. Instead of setting clear rules and having consistant consequences for disobedience, the Left use their emotions at the moment to determine right and wrong.

They also manipulate the emotions of their children to control them, all the while pretending that they are lenient.

For example, the conservative parent teaches their child to behave well, to stay close to them in public, and to never step into the intersection without holding Mommy's hand.

Meanwhile, the Leftie, in an attempt to look openminded, lets the child scream and run all over the place like feral animals. But let the child set one foot in the street, and they suddenly become hysterical and drag the poor thing back with a huge display of emotion. the child has no idea what they did, and spends their life tip-toeing around Mommy, in case she might turn into a monster again.

The Leftie way teaches the child to be subject to the emotional blackmail of others.

This accounts for the way that the Lefties respond to the hysterical rantings of the Extreme Activists.

Meanwhile, conservatives, who actually use their brain to determine right and wrong, will sit and reason it out.

"Hmmmmmm...," the conservative says. "One degree hotter in the space of 100 year? Doesn't sound like anything to panic about." and goes on to focus on things that are actually pressing.

The Bull and the Bears
Gore-Bull and Polar Bears, that is.

Why did the Lefties choose Polar Bears to try and motivate us? Why not cute baby Harp Seals? Because the public knows they can swim, and don't know this about Polar Bears?

Why not use Movie Stars Homes in Mailbu that might get their carpets wet if the seas rise a few feet? Probably because the public doesn't care.

Or is it because they can also use the Polar Bear as a wedge to prevent drilling in Alaska?

I think I am smelling what bears do in the forest and what bulls do in the pasture.

packrat
Hide this somplace where it is handy next time the topic comes up.

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/1/29/133526.sht ml

Kinky Liberal Liar
So you Communists are Caretakers of the World now?

On the Coulter thread, Thursday, April, 24 , 10:24

Along with some petty name calling;
You created a fictional summary of my posts and proceeded to verbally masturbate in public while you mocked your own words you had attributed to me.
I am not sure what a psychiatrist would call such conduct but I call you a SOCIOPATHIC LIAR!

This is the second time I have caught you in a BALD FACE LIE about one of my posts.
The first time I simply chided you about masturbating in public and made you look like a fool.

I understand you Communists live in your own FantasyLand but you are not on CodePink now.
If you reply to someone's post and attribute YOUR words as his words, THAT IS A LIE!
If you infer someone has posted words on a particular subject he never mentioned, THAT IS A LIE!
If you falsify someone else's words for the sake of your rebuttal, YOU ARE A LIAR!

I am well aware you Communists are very slow learners and I am willing to devote whatever time and patience it takes to educate you!

Have you noticed a thread sometimes becomes so crowded you can't even get on it?
During normal hours there are about 50 people reading these posts for every person posting.
This site is the creation of the Heritage Foundation, a Conservative Think Tank.
Many Conservatives read these threads. I am not the only witness to your LIES.
Your pathetic attempts to refute Conservative logic have amused many people on these threads.
You have a natural talent for comedy. When will you do a pratt fall with a keyboard?


Kinky Liberal Liar
Since you claim to be able to read my thoughts and refute things I have never posted, why haven't you made any attempt to refute my thought that you are a cowardly, subhuman parasite that should be used in an asylum to study abnormal thought patterns?
You must agree with that thought or you would have refuted it preemptively!

You call me a "link crazed maniac" because I frequently verify my sources and ask you to verify the source of some of the lies you post here?
I ask you to provide sources BECAUSE YOU ARE A LIAR!

You claim I am "guzeling¹ Bush kool aid²" because I ask you to verify one of the LIES you fabricated?

Everything you post here is either stale Communist Party Propaganda or some LIE you fabricated.
POST LINKS TO YOUR SOURCES!
That is if you have sources other than your own dementia.
You can post a link?


¹ guzzling
² Kool-Aid®

Packrat writes: "re: wmd's"

You are exactly right... Spot ON! Bingo!

"Not finding it proves only that you couldn't find it."


Now we DO know where some of them are... because we KNOW they're buried in the sand in Syria, but you're still spot on as far as WMDs in Iraq...

To this day I still say, 'they haven't found the YET!'





Mountain Rose
I have to take exception with your post at 2:03. The libs do let their little darlings run like feral animals but, they would NOT stop them from running in the street. Instead, after their little darling was hit by a car, they would scream at the driver. And, Heaven help the motorist if he happened to be driving an SUV. Then, the all caring liberal person, would teach the child how to go to court to sue the evil SUV driver, the city the street is in, the manufacturer of the SUV, any bystanders who neglected to jump in front of the SUV to save the child and anyone else they could think of.

THAT is a true progressive! It's the fault of everyone else. Never theirs, cause they CARE.

Polar Bear, Smolor bear, more bull pookie from the best terror spreaders there are....enviro terrorists!

Kinky Liberal Liar
Let us address the part in your post where you say I blame Liberals, (AKA Communists), for the Crusades being lost over a thousand years ago.

NOW YOU COWARDLY KINKY LIAR let me see you defend those words!
And start looking for some defense for every lie you put in that post!

You can whimper and cry all you want to but don't expect me to be civil to you while you LIE ABOUT ME and insult me.

_______________________
You want me to post links?
OK;
http://www.christmasghost.com/archives/2006/01/washington_s tat_1.html

Kinky Liberal Liar
HEY STUPID!
If you would read some of those links you whimper about you would not have just made that stupid post @ 3:56

For your convenience;
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/1/29/133526.sht ml

Arrogance
Even if one were to accept *ALL* the hysterical claims by the proponents of "global warming", it's rather arrogant to presume that such an event is a *bad* one. Who is to say that our climate today is an ideal one, that it is not too cool and needs to warm?

Besides, we need longer growing seasons to produce enough corn and other crops to feed the biofuel frenzy--and feed the folks, of course.

KL
Why have GOP pols embraced GWBS? They have succumbed to a malady I call Beltwayitis. Its victims are almost all conservatives who come into office promising constituents fiscal and behavioral responsibility primarily. Upon arrival in DC, such pols are excoriated in the press as being insensitive to the needs of the common man and branded by the cocktail party circuit as pariahs. In response to such ostricization and the simultaneous discovery that sending tax dollars back to the district enhances reelectability, they find themselves uttering strange words like bipartisan and legislative compromise. It's either something in the water or maybe a form of mass hypnosis.

King Liberal writes: "Anne+Packrat"

"Not finding it proves only that you couldn't find it."

KL states: "then I guess the loch ness monster, bigfoot, and the yeti exist. Hey just cause you can't find it...don't be silly."

Okay. I'll try really hard not to be silly... Here goes!!!

I'm guessin' that you NEVER took logic in college, or IF you did, you FLUNKED!

By your lack of logic, that means before scientists were able to isolate the bacteria and virus, etc. and proved they existed, even though they killed millions of people over thousands of years, they didn't exit???

Is that what you're tying to say? I truly hope not.


"Secondly there are no nuclear weapons in syria. You have no poof of this and the intelligence estimates have never indicated such a thing. Period."

Really? Ummmm... You're WRONG AGAIN, Skippy!

"A senior Syrian journalist reports Iraq WMD located in three Syrian sites..."
06 January, 2004
http://www.2la.org/syria/iraq-wmd.php

Getting the picture here Skippy?


You're from Missouri? "Show me some results."

Just did! Now, move along....




SNAFU
Our World has gone through thousands of cycles of temperature changes.

The Polar Bear has already survived one that we know of.

Many species have become extinct in the past.
Can you think of any harm their loss has caused the World?
I seriously doubt any of these Leftists can either.

Since the beginning of civilization, mankind has been cursed with Charlatans who demand sacrifice to control some part of the climate. The only thing that has changed now is we don't call them Shaman or Wizard, we call them "Environmentalists".

Fooey on Bluey
Childish, I know, but I couldn't resist.

"Talk about bad timing. Gas prices are spiking and U.S. energy policy is contributing to skyrocketing food costs, yet environmentalists apparently want to make it even more expensive to live in America. And they’re trying to use the polar bear to do it."

****

In fact, if we were awash in money (as we are, though only less awash than we want to be or feel that we have the right to be,) you would
still be anti-green. You know it. I know it.

Why don't you just flat out say, I don't want to
do anything for the common good whether for now
or later if it costs me any time, money, or
energy.

Global Warming may have been an unfortunate choice of name for the phenomenon now happening, but almost no scientist with any creds denies
that there is a significant climate change and
that much of it has been brought about because
of lifestyle and choices we make. Heaven forbid,
that we should attempt to change those lifestyles. We might be put out somewhat. We
might have to spend more money, though in actually we would probably spend less money
if we drive less, are more careful with heating
and air conditioning our homes, recycle more
products, etc.

WE JUST DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE OUR
MONEY OR TELL US WHAT TO DO. Stomp, stomp. Pout,
pout.





Kinky Liberal Liar
You still have not answered my charge that you LIED when you claim I blame Liberals for losing the Crusades a thousand years ago.

Apoligise for that LIE and then we will go to your next LIE!

And you have compounded more LIES in your 4:34 post.
We will get to each of your lies, one at a time.
KEEP LYING AND I WILL KEEP CALLING YOU ON EVER ONE OF THEM.
I am sure you will eventually get cured of lying about my posts.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!


You debate AGW?
You can't debate. All you can do is LIE and PARROT Communist propaganda.

Hey Packrat, this is NOT FUN anymore...


The "typical liberals" like KL are just too simple and shallow to have a reasonable and rational debate or discussion with...





virudduh
Maybe I am wrong in assuming you are one of the Communists who come here trying to push your AGW swindle.

If you truly believe mankind is responsible for this climate change or has some noticeable affect on our climate then you should go straight away to JunkScience.com , prove your words and collect that HUGE reward!

Don't forget us when you are rich and famous!

What on earth is
"caring for the planet" all about? Especially in light of the fact that the ruins we now see from past civilizations are few for the number of people that surely existed, it's pretty plain that nature is relentless in its recovery from our piddling efforts at immortality. You can't even keep sophisticated equipment in the jungle for more than three or four months; the "rainforest" climate simply eats it up.

If you believe, King, that we can do one single, solitary thing to influence the weather I suggest you ask the folks who've lost their homes to tornadoes last week if they believe that bull hockey. Think maybe a rattle, a few feathers, and stomping around in a circle wouldn've prevented it?

King "typical idiot liberal": So, since

you didn't rant about the "can't find it so it must not exist" fallacy, obviously you know you've lost that one... BIG TIME!

Now, onto WMDs again.... Obviously you never accessed that web site. No surprise there!!!

If you had, you'd have seen that Nizar Nayuf DEFECTED... at great personal risk to himself (yeah, some people actually do that when it's the right thing to do... like our troops defending our freedoms..!)

"Nizar Nayuf (Nayyouf-Nayyuf), a Syrian journalist who recently defected from Syria to Western Europe and is known for bravely challenging the Syrian regime, said in a letter Monday, January 5, to Dutch newspaper “De Telegraaf,” that he knows the three sites where Iraq's Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) are kept. The storage places are.................. "



Too bad, Skippy, every time you post something, you lose more and more.... Ooops, but then you are a "typical liberal!"



Sorry, this is getting to be soooooo not fun!







Wow....
...just back from a nice hike in the mountains, and it seems the fun carried on in my absence.

Thanks, Mountain Rose. Yes, they are dangerous. Irrational people must be watched, the irrational left must be kept away the controlls of power before they do any more damage.

Hey K.L. What was hateful about my post?
The accuracy?

Kinky Liberal THE COWARDLY LIAR!
RE: your 4:34

1. I truly regret you do not like me! ;-)

2. What YOU SAY you read is of no consequence.
I could not care less.

3. You claim you do not believe the Iraqi General who tells about WMD being shipped to Syria but you want to know who he likes for U.S. President?????
Why would I expect you Communists to be logical?

4. As to your denial of what you wrote in your post after you posted another copy of the lie?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! :-)
I know you are too stupid to see it but this is exactly why you have no credibility.

I AM GOING TO SAVE YOU FROM YOURSELF!
We will continue to work on your tendency to lie every time I see you post.

skep41
Careful what you say about the polar bears breeding like rats -- that may be the next argument down the pike to "prove" that there's a whole lotta climate change goin' on. "The climate has changed -- now there are too many polar bears!"

After all, as viruddh assures us, it's not necessary for any particular passing claim to actually be true. That "global warming" was not a one-way trend serves now to bolster the reputation of "climate change" (it was warmer -- now it's colder!), rather than as a caution against truncating one's graphs to support one's agenda.

The problem with "climate change" as a political issue is that it's the norm, and has been for thousands of years. "Climate stasis" has never characterized earth since humans have inhabited it. "Climate change" is ops normal.

Perhaps, however, the bears will justify the solicitude of the "climate change" lobby by becoming bipolar bears.

Aqua Satellite
You have to go to Australia to find the news on AGW. The theory is disproven. The models predicted "hotspots" over the tropics and AGW would cause high, heat trapping, clouds to form. Actually the satellite showed NO hotspots and that the reverse happen in cloud formation. LOW, cooling, clouds were formed. Adding to the theory that the earth has it's own thermostat.

The IPCC agrees with these findings, but you won't hear it on the MSM. As the article points out they are in a state of "shock."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23411799 -7583,00.html

Anne ...

I haven't heard any denial of Iraq having WMD scientists?

Are we to believe Saddam paid them top dollar to sit around and play Parcheesi all those years?

Mountain Rose
"In the case of Gore-Bull Warming, when one actually watches the weather, one can see that we have just had the two COLDEST winters in recent memory."

First, one or two years in one or two countries
does not make an era.

Second, Global Warming is pretty much recognized
as to be not the most accurate description of
what is happening. Climate Change is better.

And it is climate change that has changed because
of our lifestyles. Yes, there has always been
climate change. And it has had long lasting, even everlasting effect on our earth. The question becomes do you want to continue to pray to the rain god to get you through it or would you like to try something more scientific?


Kinky Liberal THE COWARDLY LIAR!
You can slink off and cower wherever you want to.

I will run into you again and probably catch you fantasizing more lies.
You can't help yourself.

I have copies of your LIES and we will go down the list.

I doubt it is possible to cure you of fabricating LIES.
BUT YOU WILL KNOW I AM TRYING MY BEST TO HELP YOU!

In the 20s and 30s
when we had a warm spell (remember drought and the the Dust Bowl) of the Great Depression?polar bears were supposedly dying off, and there would be no more by the mid-20th C.

Actually, there are more polar bears today in the 21st C. than there were in the 50s, 60s, or 70s, when they were not extinct. And those were periods of relative cold.

King Liberal: WEATHER means current atmospheric
conditions-
WHETHER is the conjunction that expresses a comparison or alternatives

Until you can tell the difference between those words, I think you should give up this thread.

King Lib writes
"if syria has WMDs why in't GWB doing something about it?"

I believe that Israel solved that little problem.

Kinky Liberal Liar
If you suffer from some delusion you will gain sympathy with more LIES;

Wheter or not you credit a link I post;
YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHT TO LIE ABOUT THE CONTENT OF MY POST!

I do not expect you to retract YOUR LIES!
You do not have that much character.

You have no personal honor or you would not LIE and pretend someone posted something they did not post.

As to you informing members of TH about me?
I have been a member here for years.
You seem to be the only one here that does not know about me.
BUT YOU ARE ABOUT TO LEARN!

Katy
Katy is a favorite family name in my clan.

The Israelies just knocked out a nuclear reactor in Syria in the fall. You want more?

We were concerned with Saddam not just because of WMDs per se, but because Saddam had killed people with them (he had used them on Iran and the Kurds), was under UN injunction to be rid of them and endure weapons inspections (Saddam threw the inspectors out of Iraq, remember?), and because Saddam had been militarily aggressive, had engaged in an 8-year war with Iran, had gassed 1000s of Kurds (for which he was convicted and hanged), had invaded Kuwait to sieze its oil, and was threatenting Saudi Arabia, which has the most significant oil reserves in the world, and we have agreed since the 30s to take care of them.

If we would drill off our coasts, exploit shale oil in the West, go for coal gassification, and build nuclear power, we would be less dependent on the vagaries of the oil countries in the Middle East.

But as far as stopping Saddam from invading other nations and killing his own people, after Hitler and WW II, we did say, *Never again.* Remember that?

Lemonade and rain god
Your: "The question becomes do you want to continue to pray to the rain god to get you through it or would you like to try something more scientific?"

And therein lies the dilemma for proponents of "climate change" by whatever name. I suppose you're referring to the recent spate of droughts. Have you no idea that droughts are part of a natural cycle of weather changes? There are abundant records of serious droughts throughout written history. Do you believe the ancient pharoahs were responsible? (Perhaps in part, since the Bible lays the blame at their feet several times.)

Yet some believe that there is some scientific way to defeat natural weather/climate cycles, or to create rain where there is none. Not bloody likely.

Thanks,Renny
It just happened to be the ONLY reactor.

I long for the past. When you won a war, you got stuff instead of supporting the the defeaeted country. Hey, you owned it!

I'm very busy saving the Florida Sweat Gnat from global cooling.

SNAFU
From your posts I get an impression you have not been convinced a Carbon Exchange tax will change our climate!

You are really a disappointment to our Liberals here.
They are trying very hard to convince you.

SNAFU
Man made global warming is total BS. The truth is that the earth's climate has been changing for billions of years. But GW has become like a religion to some people. And once they are converted to this new theology, it's impossible to show them the real truth.

For those that know the truth about climate change, the science really isn't that hard. Most people, think the earth orbits around the sun is a perfect circle. That's not true at all. The earth's orbit is eliptical. That means, that the earth is closer to the sun at times, and further away at other times. This distance change, causes the earth's temperature to change as it move in and out.

Next, a lot of people think the sun is always the same temperature. That's completely wrong. The sun gets warmer and cooling depending on it's current activity. Right now the sun is going through a warm phase.

So if the sun is in a warm phase, and the earth is in a close orbit, then you get a upward change in the earth's average temperature. But if the earth is on an out orbit and the sun is cooler, then the earth's average temperature goes down. This has been happening for billions of years over and over again. And it will continue for billions of years after mankind is just any after thought on the earth.

Roy Spencer
Roy Spencer, formerly head of climatology at NASA and currently a reseacher at U of Ala Huntsville has written a book titled How Global Warming Hysteria Leads to Bad Science, Pandering Politicans and Misguided Policies That Hurt the Poor. The title sums up his sceptical view of man made global warming. This book should be required reading for our current crop of presidental contenders!

Spencer has also won awards for his work in space monoriting of polar temps. He recently stated that global warming peaked about five years ago and the world has cooled since. He firmly believes that human carbon emissions have very little impact on global temps.

Notice how man made global warming has suddenly become climate change after a couple of cold cold winters.

ENOUGH ALREADY !!!
Do you really believe conservatives, business people and the thinking public in general wants to poison their children and grandchildren? Or cause the destruction of Nature's wonders so we can look at desolete, dusty frozen mud? Right .... I want my three grandchildren to drink water loaded with mercury, lead and dioxins. And watch helpless animals die on my 42 inch plasma screen (by the way...I don't own a Home Theater ... how many enviro's do?)

Stop already with the doom and gloom! And STOP LYING! Those picture of polar bears on a small ice berg were PHONEY ... take out of a much larger shot of a very large ice field. And let me ask the enviro's: Where's the massive Cat5 hurricanes we were supposed to have ?

Get a grip! Get a LIFE!

JAG CA
There was a famous scene in Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" of the South Poles ice shelf drafting into the Antarctic Ocean. The only problem is that the whole scene was entirely fake, it was completely a CGI. Now that's an inconvenient truth. Remember GW is BS, I think I'll make that into the T-shirt.

Way to go MyOpine!
Chop KL off at the knees! The lying sleezeball! The jerk can't even lie convincingly.

Way to go MyOpine!
Chop KL off at the knees! The lying sleezeball! The jerk can't even lie convincingly.

In search of global warming
I'm sure there are some sincere people who have swallowed the "global warming" theory hook, line and sinker. They delude themselves into thinking that all the facts are in, the debate is over, that man is responsible for causing climate change. But most are furthering another agenda, in my opinion.

Though they tout technology as if it were manna from Heaven, in truth they are luddites seeking to return the USA to the day of horse and buggy.

Here are a couple of examples:

"Building an environmentally sustainable future requires restricting the global economy, dramatically changing human reproductive behaviour, and altering values and lifestyles. Doing this quickly requires nothing short of a revolution." -- Lester Brown, president of the Worldwatch Institute

"I think if we don't overthrow capitalism, we don't have a chance of saving the world ecologically. I think it is possible to have an ecologically sound society under socialism. I don't it's possible under capitalism." -- Judy Bari, Earth First

"While the death of young men in war is unfortunate, it is no more serious than the touching of mountains and wilderness areas by humankind. . . . Loggers losing their jobs because of Spotted Owl legislation is, in my eyes, no different than people being out of work after the furnaces of Dachau shutdown." -- David Brower, founder, Friends of the Earth

and on and on and on...

A Proud Reagan Conservative
Thanks! I'm negotiating with officials in Churchill,Manitoba to post bail for the inmates in "polar bear jail".
They will be put on work relase with Al Gore.

OOps!
Sorry, meant to include the link.
http://www.wayodd.com/canada-expands-polar-bear-jail/v/3341 / - 21k

MyOpine re: Carbon taxes
Now here's an idea: Anatole Kaletsky, an economics writer for the London Times, claims that that severely restricting carbon emissions would actually stimulate economic growth and employment because they would “have the effect on the world economy comparable to a large-scale war”. ("Digging beneath the gloom", The Australian (national newspaper), November 29 2000).

Closer to home, Fred Bergsten runs the Institute for International Economics in Washington and is a former assistant secretary of the Treasury. Three days after that horrific tsunami hit Asis, with tens of thousands confirmed dead, he told National Public Radio (NPR) that the tragedy was a good thing for the economies concerned.

He said: "Like any disaster, you get negative effects through destroying existing properties and people's health, but you do get a burst of new economic activity to replace them, and, on balance, that generally turns out to be quite positive."

The ultimate goal of the enviromental whackos is to destroy the USA as we know it, physically as well as spiritually, and rebuild it in *their* image.

Meanwhile, as an aside, I own some land in Costa Rica. It is currently in its native state, jungle. I'm currently torn between selling some carbon exchanges or bulldozing the "rainforest" down and planting something that can be turned into biofuels. Damn the howler monkees, full speed ahead!

SNAFU
I have said many times, that if you take the eco message to its' logical conclusion, that it would require the reduction of the human population. Just think about the impact of our ever increasing life spans. At some point, someone would propose, that in order to save the planet, that we need to keep people from over producing. After all, more people use more resources, and more people create more pollution. So there's only one thing to do, stop allowing so many people to live at the same time. I wonder, who's going to be the first one to offer to off themselves to save the planet?

Mr M Coupe ...

Like he invented the internet, Al Gore is a step ahead of us.

I expect him to invent some food with wacky name like...

Soylent Green.

Mr M Coupe
I'm glad you mentioned reducing the human population.

Here's another tidbit from David Brower, founder, Friends of the Earth:

"Child-bearing [should be] a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. . . . All potential parents [should be] required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."

There are others, I'm sure, who prefer more direct action but the above pretty much sums up the view of the environmental wackos.

Mr M Coupe
Volunteer to off THEMSELVES?
You are not thinking Leftist.
Remember how they give so generously to charity?
Out of YOUR wallet?

No global warming since 1998
Measurements have shown NO global warming since 1998. In fact, the globe has entered a cooling phase, cooling about 1.1 F per decade since 2001. Find more facts at:

http://www.scienceandpublicpolicy.org

The MSM have been screaming about imminent climate catastrophes for more than a century. Around 1900 it was an imminent ice age. Around 1930 it was global warming. Around 1970 it was back to an imminent ice age, promoted by NASA "scientist" James Hanson. That's the same NASA "scientist" James Hanson who is now warning about the present Globull Warming catastrophe. Why are these people given any credibility at all?

SNAFU
I live in Plymouth MI. Yesterday my wife and I went to town and it was full of all kinds of venders. I asked my wife, what the heck is going on? She said it "Green Day". I thought, oh great a whole town full of eco freaks. I wonder how many of them know they are a waste of space. Do you think if I told them they are killing the planet they'd do the right thing, and jump off a bridge?

Robert it's good to
hear from you. I can't begin to tell how much it means to me that you're still out there being yourself. It's too bad for you that I'm not going to play your little game. So here's a Bible verse for you.

"For God so loved Robert, that he gave his only begotten Son, so that if Robert believes in Him, Robert will not parish but have everlasting life".

John 3:16 sort of. A+

God Bless you Robert. Enjoy the rest of the of the night.

Mr M Coupe
You do understand Wobbie has an impressive resume?

Wobbie tells us he is a Captain in the U.S. Navy, an active duty combat pilot flying daily patrols over Iraq,

And he does not know Ordinance Color Codes.
And he can't describe a Division Gunnery Efficiency Pennant.
And he can't describe a Division Engineering Efficiency Pennant.
And he can't tell you what it signals when a ship hoists a single red dovetail pennant.
And he can't tell you the reward paid by a Carrier for returning a downed pilot.
And he claims to be one of the men who held the "Halp us Jon Cary" sign.
And he also claims to be a Navy test pilot.
And he also claims to be a civilian test pilot.
And he claims to be a Republican and also a delegate to the Democrat convention.
And wally discovered Wobbie does not know how to fly an airplane.
And Wobbie boasts about being an advisor to our Admirals.
And Wobbie claims the Russians let him take their latest military craft for a spin at an Air Show.
And I can't get Wobbie to tell me if that Russian airplane has a slot for quarters like the plane he flies in front of Wal*Mart.

mr m coupe
I really think the only solution to GW is to shoot big Al and put us all out of our misery! They shot the filly in the derby right! It's the wright thing to do!

Anecdote about wobbie
Wobbie walked into a public library, went to the Reference Desk, and then asked for DIRECTIONS TO the Reference Desk (don't the 2' letters above it provide enough clue?).

For MyOpine @ 2008/05/04 23:15
The one case where wobbie would be telling the truth is if he said he worked as "ragpicker" (desi term) or "dumpster-diver". Eh, he's shown that by recycling so many of his stories.

Lemonade and "Climate Change"
Lemonade writes: Sunday, May, 04, 2008 5:46 PM
Mountain Rose...
"First, one or two years in one or two countries does not make an era.
Second, Global Warming is pretty much recognized as to be not the most accurate description of what is happening. Climate Change is better."
********************************************

Kindly tell me which era in history did not involve the climate changing?

This is why it is so disgusting that the Lefties have eradicated history from public schools.

From the late 1700s to the late 1800s, there was a greater change in temperature world wide than there was in the following century.

But you probably didn't study the American Revolution in highschool and were unaware of how much more bitterly cold it was than it is now.

Much more than 1 degree difference.

Stop listening to the Gore-Bullies and pick up a history book.

Oh yes, and since Lefties are liars, I recommend opening older history books, since the public text book industry has been controlled by the extreme Left for many decades.

Craftyone: LOL!!!!!!!!!
craftyone writes: Sunday, May, 04, 2008 3:46 PM
"Mountain Rose
I have to take exception with your post at 2:03. The libs do let their little darlings run like feral animals but, they would NOT stop them from running in the street. Instead, after their little darling was hit by a car, they would scream at the driver. And, Heaven help the motorist if he happened to be driving an SUV. Then, the all caring liberal person, would teach the child how to go to court to sue the evil SUV driver, the city the street is in, the manufacturer of the SUV, any bystanders who neglected to jump in front of the SUV to save the child and anyone else they could think of."
***********************************************

Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

King Liberal
King Liberal writes: Sunday, May, 04, 2008 2:28 PM
"mountain rose
...You can't tell me GOP politicos are pandering for liberal/moderate vote at the risk of alienating their base soley for GW."
***********************************************

On this point I disagree.

John McCain shows signs of contempt for conservative Republican, and love for extreme Lefties like Teddy (*urp*) Kennedy.

I think that conservatives are lazy lobbiests, while the Left is very adept at funneling public funds into the coffers of their lobbiests and shamelessly nag at politicians of all stripe.

I also think that conservative politicians are too stupid to realize that the loudest people are not the largest voting block.

If he wants my vote, perhaps he should consider pandering to me for a change.

The Hoax of Anthropromorphic only Climat
e change.

There are at least 8 separate legitimate NATURAL causes for global warming and cooling. But yet none of the Democrat enviro wackos (= another definition for socialist poltical lobbiests seeking successful methods to end capitolism) have really touched upon these plausible causes because they dont promote their political agenda.

Let's just put it this way. Earth has had a "climate" since the middle of Pre-Cambrian time (middle Proterozoic= about 2.5 billion years). Man has been recording daily climate swings since the early 1800's (just say 200 years). Doing the math, that means that man has the benefit of daily temp data representing 0.00000008% of the total earth's climatic time. Let's give the Democratic Enviro's the benefit of the doubt and say they really understand the ice core data and carbon dioxide levels going back to approximately 1 million years ago. Again doing the math, that means man has the benefit of scientific temperature data representing 0.0004% of earth's total climatic data.

0.0004% folks. And we are being told they are SURE they understand what is going on!!!

Broken Window Fallacies & Regulation
That Anatole Kaletsky quote is great: it's the "broken window" fallacy exactly. Wars DESTROY economies as well as stimulate them, you know.

The trouble with these notions about innovation is that no one knows what innovations will be allowed. Since the science is bogus & the standards are arbitrary, what is allowed will be arbitrary, & you betcha it'll be whatever friends of the elite do. You loser proles need not apply; they'll find something wrong with anything you come up with. Invent a car that runs on water & they'll veto it; after all one of the real agendas was to outlaw cars anyway.

My 1st jobs out of college were with chemical waste. I thought it had a great future.

My 1st boss told me the Resource Conservation & Recovery Act should have been called the Analytical Chemist Full Employment Act because the last thing the 1978 RCRA encouraged was resource conservation or recovery; you gottatoss it, now. The 1985 re-auth was even worse. A fad called "waste minimization" was used as an excuse to restrict waste facilities (another factor forcing industry to relocate to China)

I got tired of an industry jerked around by NIMBYism & feckless policies-du-jour that encouraged management & ownership to grab their wad & bail because government might torpedo us next yr with some doctrine out of left field. (Get this: the 1985 RCRA reauth required EPA regs to go into effect AS SOON AS THEY WERE FINALIZED, which meant no lead time to prepare.)

Don't even get me started on CERCLA (the "Superfund" law) which probably should be called the Environmental Lawyer's Full Employment Act. "Potentially responsible parties" to a priority list site have little choice but to deny & fight endlessly, no settlements, because to stipulate the tiniest thing could mean getting sucked into a financial black hole that can swallow Fortune 500's.

Sweetheart suit settlement?
Have you noticed that all this stuff is accomplished by unelected bureaucrats & judges & "activists" totally outside the democratic process, using for leverage laws like ESA, that when it was passed no one ever thought would be construed to require us to submit to the "climate change dogma."

No candidate has run for President in a race with opposing "climate change" positions in play, not even Al Gore in 2000. Now Johnny Mack has drunk the Kool-Aid, so there's no major party candidate against this thing to support.

I suspect few have run for Congress on this either, not for a contested seat, anyway. Ditto for governors.

Many legislators & govs in fact run & get elected as "moderate" conservatives, then get "turned" into radical warmies once in office, w/ no mandate.

Clitnon didn't even submit that horrible Kyoto treaty to the Senate, knowing it was DOA, w/ majority Dems!

This is being "stealthed" on us by wobbly judges rubber-stamping activist suits.

The ESA only protects species actually 'endangered' so there ought to be room to fight this.

It would be interesting to see this "polar bear suit" actually contested & tried! I'm afraid the Admin is going to just wimp out & make some "sweetheart" settlement that stipulates everything the warmies want.

BRANG IT ON!!!
But what if the Bush Administration grew some backbone & actually DEFENDED their anti-listing position? After all, bad as the ESA is, it ONLY "protects" ENDANGERED species, not those that might be endangered hypothetically later, by a phenomenon never proven.

Upon what meat has the ESA fed, that it is grown so great it can be used to torpedo our entire economy & standard of living based on an unproven theory?

The "warmies" should welcome a trial! This would be an opportunity for the "warmies" to finally put up or shut up. They could demonstrate to us "deniers" once & for all that there is actual demonstrable science behind this, instead of propaganda & big government totalitarianism.

At last, they could put their cards on the table and PROVE the anthrogenic "climate change" thesis they propose as dogma.

On the other hand, they could finally be handed their posteriors, this monster could finally die, & a lot of suborned granthappy scientists & the UN's creature the IPCC would be discredited, not to mention political rodeo clowns like Al Gore.

So why don't they? Why don't "our guys" fight, for once?

Why don't they want a confrontation in court or in an election campaign, but to quietly have "our side" sell us out in the back room out of sight? Because the truth would come out, & not be in their favor?

If the Bush Admin fails to contest this, it will be the final proof that the GOP may as well be euthanized.
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