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Sunday, July 15, 2007
Robert Bluey :: Townhall.com Columnist
Democrats Declare Defeat
by Robert Bluey
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The House of Representatives voted last week to begin pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq in four months, a gesture that appeased the antiwar crowd but sent a message of retreat and surrender to the brave men and women fighting overseas.

As Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) celebrated their largely symbolic victory, the Senate headed down a similar path. Although senators were supposed to be debating next year’s military budget, they instead bogged down in a series of votes over President Bush’s Iraq strategy.

It seems that Democrats, along with some Republicans, have run out of patience with the “surge” of 30,000 troops to confront the enemy and reduce violence in Iraq. Even though the plan has been fully operational for only about three weeks, the same senators who essentially voted for it are now ready to back out.

Army Gen. David Petraeus, the man leading the Multi-National Force in Iraq, won unanimous Senate confirmation in January. After he outlined his strategy of a surge, senators in both parties agreed to let Petraeus give it a shot. Early results indicate the reinforcements are having some impact, resulting in less bloodshed in Baghdad and Anbar. Unfortunately, any sign of good news in Iraq is bad news for Democrats in Congress.

A progress report released last week by the Bush administration showed mixed results on 18 benchmarks to be met by the Iraqi government; the next evaluation is due from Petraeus on Sept. 15. Although that was supposed to be the date to evaluate the situation, the general’s one-time supporters in Congress are now moving up the timeline.

Emboldened by three Republican defections -- Sens. Richard Lugar (Ind.), George Voinovich (Ohio) and Pete Domenici (N.M.) -- liberals proposed several measures to bring an end to the U.S. mission in Iraq.

Although House Democrats were able to win passage for their pullout bill, Senate Republicans managed to block a proposal from Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.) stipulating combat deployment schedules. Had the measure passed, it would have been the first step toward cutting and running from Iraq by tying the president’s hands and limiting the military command’s decision-making ability.

Last week’s votes made it clear that liberals in Congress have no qualms about micromanaging the war instead of letting commanders on the ground issue the orders. They would just as soon walk away from Iraq, setting the stage for a humanitarian disaster.

This week promises more of the same in the Senate. Facing demands from their antiwar base to bring a quick end to the war, liberals are willing to give up the fight against terrorists on their main battlefield.

While I certainly understand the American public’s growing weariness about Iraq, pulling out U.S. troops now would present the worst possible scenario. Al Qaeda is a serious threat and, according to a classified report in the news last week, is growing in power. Handing the country over to terrorists not only would undermine the fledgling government but also create tremendous instability. If the situation in Iraq is bad today, just imagine how disastrous it would be with al Qaeda in charge.

Giving up the effort in Iraq would bolster our enemies and give them time to build dangerous alliances, creating a more complex scenario for our military in the years to come. What’s worse is the potential for a regional conflict that would consume the already volatile Middle East.

This short-sighted view -- whether from liberals or conservatives -- poses a great threat to America. If we’re going to keep the battle off our soil, abandoning Iraq is the wrong approach to take.

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About The Author
Robert B. Bluey is director of the Center for Media & Public Policy at The Heritage Foundation and maintains a blog at RobertBluey.com
 
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Short-sighted View?
The Iraqi administration doesn't have the prerogative of going on vacation for the month of August. Not when American men and women are putting their lives on the line for these ungrateful, arrogant, and incompetent Iraqis.

Remove the American ground troops. Bring in the United States Air Force.

I'm tired of hearing about the Taliban and Al Qaeda achieving maximum potency again. That's what we were supposed to be preventing.

I'm naive enough to believe that the world's foremost superpower ought to be able to accomplish its objective with minimum casualties.

Surrender is not the only message
being sent. We also, through the media reports of exactly when progress reports to Congress on the surge are going to occur, send a message of when to attack!

Ever notice the horrific up-tic in violence a week or so before the progress report is due? The enemy is savvy enough to follow the schedule and carry out large scale attacks at the most opportune time for the Dems to proclaim defeat.

Nice strategy if you have allies in the MSM to alert you to the event with enough time to plan for it...like right about now, I'll bet they're already planning massive strikes on civilians and some on armed units (but thats not as easy as unarmed civilians) for September...a week or two before the day of the "report" the MSM will dutifully inform the enemy the time to attack is upon them.

What a way to run a war.

Doubling Down
I'll bet the next BIG massacre of civilians happens on or around Sept. 4, because...Tony Snow said that a scheduled Sept. 15 progress report on by Gen. David Petraeus was important..."

I don't think Snow should have said anything, or anyone else that has named the date either... It seems we have collectively forgotten how to conduct warfare.

tell me why..
Why is al-queda in iraq? Why are deployment lengths getting longer and longer? Why are we in iraq. I'm sorry but those of you that like to post on here cannot answer these simple questions. I thought we went into iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction. No no no..that's not it..it's to take down saddam . No no no that's not it..it's to allow the Iraqi's to have free and fair elections. No no no..its.....Why can't anyone just say the truth (one of my favorite quotes from hollweird) " hey..you F..ked up, you trusted us." Everyone was on board when we went after Osama and his goons, it's only when we were sidetracked into this debacle in Iraq that people started to get upset. Now all you hear is " Well, we have to stay the course, give the surge a chance, it'll be okay, we have to stick it out till we win" So tell me something you folks on the right. If you were driving from New York to Philidelphia, and you came to a sign that said Chicago city limits, would you turn around and ask for directions? how about Denver..Seattle? The truth is I don't think the majority of you would ever stop, you would just go ahead and drive into the ocean using the reasoning that if you keep going straight ahead, you'll reach your destination eventually. I'm a conservative and life long republican. I have to tell you that it kills me the way you people have destroyed the party. Do you understand that we had control of both the executive and legislative braches of the government? Do you for a minute realize how we could have put this country back on the right track? Do you realize for a minute how President Bush and his sycophants have destroyed our chance to right 40 years of wrongs by the liberals? Think about that the next time you start saying we have to stay the course, cut and run or any of the other nonsense you people like to spout off. You do realize of course that we will probably have a liberal democrat in the white house in 2009? You do realize what he/she will be able to get passed with a demoratic majority? Just 2 things off the top of my head..Kyoto Accords,Nationalized Health Care. when we are all in line to get our government benefits at least I'll know who to thank. You folks and you're President have managed to destroy this country. I and my children, and my childrens children thank you. Cause that's about how long it'll take to fix what the democrats are salivating about doing to this country, if we ever can. Was it worth it to "stay the course"? Sorry this post is so long, but I felt the need to vent.

Well..
I have participated in this war, so i do not feel bad saying this. Lets just end it. This is not the same America we were just 50 years ago. Our people do not have the stomach for a hard war. They just want to play with their iPods and HDTV's complete with 5000 channels, you know, "buisness as usual". Americans don't want to deal with something unpleasant like war anymore.... God help us if we HAVE to fight somewhere soon after. Our "leaders" will probably compromise our freedom somehow before they put boots on the ground somewhere else. We have been comfortably sitting in our lazy boy chairs so long we are weak and complacent, and the world knows it.

Iraq PM: Country Can Manage Without U.S.

What should we do now that the Prime Minster does not think he needs the troops and blames America for being the problem? Do you think Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki wants us out so he can dominate the Sunni and not split the oil revenue?

AP-AJC— Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki shrugged off U.S. doubts of his government’s military and political progress on Saturday, saying Iraqi forces are capable and American troops can leave “any time they want.”

….”We say in full confidence that we are able, God willing, to take the responsibility completely in running the security file if the international forces withdraw at any time they want,” he said

One of al-Maliki’s close advisers, Shiite lawmaker Hassan al-Suneid, bristled over the American pressure, telling The Associated Press that “the situation looks as if it is an experiment in an American laboratory (judging) whether we succeed or fail.”

He sharply criticized the U.S. military, saying it was committing human rights violations and embarrassing the Iraqi government through such tactics as building a wall around Baghdad’s Sunni neighborhood of Azamiyah and launching repeated raids on suspected Shiite militiamen in the capital’s slum of Sadr City.

He also criticized U.S. overtures to Sunni groups in Anbar and Diyala provinces, encouraging former insurgents to join the fight against al-Qaida in Iraq. “These are gangs of killers,” he said.

In addition, he said that al-Maliki has problems with the top U.S. commander, Gen. David Petraeus, who he said works along a “purely American vision.”

“There are disagreements that the strategy that Petraeus is following might succeed in confronting al-Qaida in the early period but it will leave Iraq an armed nation, an armed society and militias,” al-Suneid said.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/iraq-pm-country-can-manage-without-us




On Weariness
Robert,

Pray tell, what is the American public weary of? I truly want to understand this caveat that nearly every “conservative” pundit adds to the story line recently- in one form or another. Is this aside an admission of weariness of the writer, a patronizing attempt to show solidarity with the masses? Honestly, with no cynicism on my part, I’m clueless. What hardship has the American public truly suffered as a result of our military presence in Iraq? Although the loss of life, every life, is tragic; is this the reason people are weary? If so, that is an odd adjective for that which is tragic. What percentage of the American public has even had an interpersonal relationship with someone that was a casualty of the fighting? (“I was at Wal-Mart today and I saw a man terribly burned from the war.”, “He or she was from Minnesota, I’m from Minnesota.” don’t qualify.) Are they going without, is the economy in the tank? Is this an existential angst over death in general…the death from MVA in California each month is greater then that due to battle injuries. So again, what is it the American public grows weary of? Methinks it’s the effectiveness of the MSM, its “dime-deep” analysis of events, its jaded view which is only to justify their politics and ideology and the repetitious, 24 hour news cycle. It’s the incontinent politician whose finger is to the wind anticipating how today’s events will play with the voting public in the fall. As a good physician, prescribe what the patient needs.
“The proposition that the people are the best keepers of their own liberties is not true. They are the worst conceivable, they are no keepers at all; they can neither judge, act, think, or will, as a political body.” – John Adams

Its America
that I care about, not Iraqis and Iraq. We are defeated because the troops hands are tied by Bush's rules of engagement. We can't win. I'll tell you who the traitor is: GWBush and his disloyalty to the Amaerican troops.

Solo
"God help us if we HAVE to fight somewhere soon after."

We agree on that point! How many Active, Guard and Reserve Army and Marine units outside of Iraq are combat ready equipped and trained? You should be scareed very scared. That is a major point the Dems are making: the Bush Regime is disarming the military and even continues to do that in their latest DOD budget submission. You want to enhance national security and support the military? Support this Congress.


DarkMessiah
"The are tired of neurotic ramblings from neo-con crack pots about the dangers of Islamic-whatever-ism."

Another point ask any congressman and he will tell you his constituents are literally in his face to "do omething about Iraq". They know the Bush Regime is finished and completely incompetent

Pull Out?
If the Iraqi leadership says the US can leave, that was supposed to be one of the main things that Bush said would trigger a pullout.
I have been in favor of staying the course, because of the threat Iran poses. Leaving too soon would create a power vaccuum that could lead to Iran taking over in Iraq.
But if Maliki (sp) says the US can go, then at least give it a shot.

my reply to the pro-war folks
Bluey says: "A progress report released last week by the Bush administration showed mixed results on 18 benchmarks to be met by the Iraqi government; the next evaluation is due from Petraeus on Sept. 15. Although that was supposed to be the date to evaluate the situation, the general’s one-time supporters in Congress are now moving up the timeline."

MY REPLY: The reason that some in Congress have moved up the timeline is that the Maliki government has announced they're taking a one-month vacation (!!!) in the month of August. That's right, so if political progress is not made by the end of July, then no political progress can be made till September.


Povishez asks, "What are people so weary of?"

MY REPLY: It may come as a surprise to the pro-war folks that Americans NEVER liked to fight long wars. The longest wars in American history, the Civil War and Vietnam, were also the most unopular wars.

America's involvement in World War II lasted less than 4 years, from Pearl Harbor in December 1941 to the Japanese surrender in August 1945. There wasn't TIME for the American public to grow weary of it, or to start to wonder if we're succeeding or not.

With Americans, it's never the casualties or the cost, but the time. Americans like their wars quick and over and done with.

Now with the Iraq War, to have President Bush actually ADMIT on TV in prime-time last January that we hadn't been winning in Iraq after all (after having claimed the opposite for years) was deadly. At that moment, his credibility as Commander-in-Chief was wrecked permanently. And even though he announced the surge, his approval rating in the polls dropped even further after his admitted incompetence.

There are millions of Americans like me, who don't want to see jihadists win but believe that Bush is too incompetent as Commander-in-Chief to win this war, no matter what Petraeus does. And that objection to the war is fatal: If the leader (Bush in this case) is incompetent, the war will be lost, no matter how valiantly our soldiers and officers fight.


Magnificus claims: "It seems we have collectively forgotten how to conduct warfare."

MY REPLY: The United States has NEVER fought this type of war successfully--a major counterinsurgency war involving 150,000 American troops, in a country with open borders allowing insurgents to enter and leave almost at will.

Petraeus thinks he knows how to fight the Iraq War. But his manual on counterinsurgency isn't the way we fought either World War or the Civil War or the Korean War or the Gulf War. If he succeeds, it will be a first for America.


BOTTOM LINE: You need a more positive goal you expect from fighting the war, than just this visceral fear of defeat. Otherwise, disengage.

Bush as Commander-in-Chief
LzVandy writes: "I'll tell you who the traitor is: GWBush and his disloyalty to the Amaerican troops."

You are CORRECT, and your objection is fatal.

Even if you support the war, given all that's happened, you are unlikely to believe that Bush either can or will lead us to victory. And you can't win any war with an incompetent leader.

But your other point is wrong: The rules of engagement are a problem, but they're not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is Iraq's open borders. Jihadists stream into Iraq from neighboring countries, and can flee back there for sanctuary whenever the going gets rough. al-Sadr has made so many trips to Iran by now that he ought to have dual citizenship. And Sunni jihadists stream in from Syria and Saudi Arabia.

Bush's inability or unwillingness to shut down that flow will inevitably wear us down to defeat.

povishez
Good post.
What I'm weary of: the constant democrat harangue.


Perhaps history will instruct us that we should not go to battle until there are sufficent numbers of combatants on our own soil.

-----
STEVE: it's also because OUR congress is preparing to take the month of august off.

Democrats Declare Defeat
The Left wants Iraq to fail because it wants Bush to fail. Collectively, the Left is either too stupid to understand the consequences of failure or arrogant enough to believe that they will be able to fix it. If Nancy Pelosi thinks that some muslim despot is going to respect her because she puts a scarf on her head, then she is dangerously out of touch or stupid or both. Don't let democrats happen to the country you love.

Go on Robert
A story appeared on Friday about an guardsman or reservist who is due to rotate to Iraq for his fifth, no joke, fifth deployment to Southwest
Asia, 3 times to Iraq, once to Afghanistan. He was asking a court to exempt him.

So here's the dilemma Robert, you're obviously a somewhat young man, speaking myself as a 47 year old, why don't you put your money where your mouth is and contact your nearest recruiter. Your an educated young man, go to OCS in lovely Quantico, Virginia and follow that up with some time at The Basic School. You appear to be visually challenged, the front seat is out, so why don't you follow up TBS with the Infantry Officers Course there at Quantico and become a Rifle Platoon Commander with the Second Marine Division at Camp Lejuene. Then go on to Al Anbar province and do us and your Commander in Chief Proud.

I have a buddy who is still in as a Colonel and has spent at least 24 months in theater since this kicked off in March '03. He is a tremendous leader and human being as well Robert. He would not complain for a moment. Be that as it may, it is my considered opinion that he has done his part, and then some.

Here's the point Robert, our guys need a break. Why don't we take some hot for the war pundits like yourself and give our heroes, and their families, a break.

Our Southern Border may be a sieve, but our Sovereign Supposed has got his priorities in order and will not give up till Iraq's borders are unassailable.

Semper Fi

To whom do we "surrender"?
What typical Republican, pro-war rot.

(Not that the Democrats are much better. Both wings of the pro-war party want to maintain hegemony in the Middle East. The Dems just want to "re-deploy" to some other poor, benighted, third world country.)

Get a clue, warmongers: you propagandized a country into invading a country that was no threat to us. Now we're in a classic quagmire: we can't "win," since no one has even defined what "victory" is. We went into a war without an exit strategy. Now, we're stuck there. Nice job, creeps.

Every premise of this war was a lie, from day one. Don't give me any of the dreck that "everyone thought Saddam had WMD." That's the biggest lie of all. The weapons inspectors, from Hans Blix to Scott Ritter to Mohammed El-Baradei, all believed--correctly, unlike you nitwits--that the WMD had been destroyed.

But, you warmongering neocon nitwits can definitely claim "victory." You got what you wanted: a war without forseeable end. An excuse to expand the warfare state and the leviathan central government that you pretend to oppose.

You armchair, chickenhawk, laptop warriors make me sick. You supply the ink; the soldiers supply the blood.

The war is over.
Game, set, match.

Also, it is cooler to day than it was yesterday. Global warming has been defeated.

We are all going to freeze to death.

The liftis are all now calling Congress demanding an increase in the military budget and veterans benifits, plus, changes in CAFE to increase pollution to stop global cooling.

They don't want us to be caught short for our next conflict or to risk the world from flooding due to our polar caps melting.

The Nitwit Leftist Anti-War Crowd
I can see that the nitwit leftist anti-war crowd has been kept busy by Mr. Bluey's column. As readers of this site know, I have spent time explaining points to the dimwits. But today, it is a beautiful day outside, and I have a life. I have only thing to say to the the nitwit leftist anti-war crowd right now: on behalf of my older son who is a U.S. Army First Lieutenant (with Ranger tab) serving in harm's way as a platoon leader in Iraq and his fellow soldiers, go to h3ll. You don't know what you are talking about, you really don't.

Inflated intellegence estimates?
Overstating the al-Quida's threat to support the invasion of Pakistan. Have not the DemonicRATs fallen for that before.

Have they got their press releases prepaired?
"We were lied to" "Bush exaggerated the threat"
"The military force was to small" "We angered al-Quida" We alienated our allies in Afganistan" We let the ice cream melt" We forgot the stove was on" "We shut the door, but Bush forgot the keys"

giving aid and comfort to the enemy
It's still the definition of treason. Declaring the war to be lost, encouraging intransigence among the insurgents, advising the terrorists that, if they hold out long enough (i.e., to our next self-imposed deadline) and kill just a few more of our boys, defeatism in the US will reach critical mass, and they'll have all of their aims realized and the caliphate of Baghdad restored.

Treason is punishable by the death penalty, and that can't be imposed soon enough. But don't worry: that's just one more thing we lack to collective will to do.

The God-cursed Mohammedans don't care how many of us want to eradicate them; all they care about is the number of us who will never raise so much as a finger to prevent the overthrow of Christendom. The only good news is that the first people they'll kill when they take over are the very Leftists who permitted them to achieve power.

Outcome of withdrawal
Does anybody doubt that when the Americans leave, Iran will move in? Then what? Our military is doing a tremendous job considering they are fighting with one hand tied behind their backs. We are probably the only country in the world that has to consult a lawyer before we drop a bomb or fire our weapons. What kind of war is that? I pray for our young men and women in the military daily. They need our support.

Hal
What has this congress proposed to correct the problems being faced? For increasing active duty strength? To replace outdated weapons systems? To improve on-the-ground intelligence efforts?

Clyde9

Mr. Charles Martel
Don't blame the leftists, many of them have taken drugs and have had their hands taped to their computers. Just like the suicide bombers in Iraq. Just as in the battle field if you captured a leftist, you would find drug paraphinalia all over the place.

Democrats
You earned your dove reputation with the pull out of Nam. It will go worse for you this time. Your strategy is ridiculous. You also had a perfect opportunity to shed your dove image when Bush made mistakes instead you bungled it. You could have stolen this war from him and won it.

To all those who keep beating the drum for impeachment your ignorance knows no bounds since it was your Congressmen and Senators that authorized it unlike Bosnia of which we are still there. When will that be done as well?

stephen
Your argument is a strawman argument. Would you rather fight Al Qaida in your neighborhood streets and on your front lawn? Al Qaida has made their intentions clear and continues to do so. since we payed little heed to OBL before 9/11 perhaps it would be better not to repeat that same mistake.

It still amazes me ...
that people think this war is simply about Iraq, or oil or the war machine. I feel like a broken record here, but we are in a bloody battle of ideals. There is a culture who wants us DEAD. Who have stated for the record that is their goal; who have set up training centers to strike terror into westerners and cause us to abandon our way of living. It's a contest of Control vs. Freedom and we've already been told they will bring the battles to our soil as soon as possible. WHY are people ignoring this point? Children in the Middle East are currently being indoctrinated to die a martyr's death for allah, while our children are being taught to be politically correct, culturally sensitive and nothing is worth fighting for. All it takes for evil to prosper is for good people to do nothing, and I keep hearing way too many people in this country who want to do nothing. They will be the same ones to ask other nations for help when the conflict reaches our shores.

If we don't stand against this threat now, it will come back to haunt upcoming generations. No other nation has the resources to stand against this enemy who WANTS US DEAD. And this is why we are still in Iraq.

Who can be so naive?
Is anyone so naive as to think this IslamoNazi war will end if America retreats from Iraq?
Iraq is simply the present battlefield.

A retreat from Iraq would simply give al Qaeda to option of choosing the next battlefield and time to strike.
Probably HomeTown USA!

There is no quick easy solution to the IslamoNazi war but this Border war costs just as many American lives and more America tax dollars.
Why are the anti-war Liberals so silent about this?
Are Liberals only concerned about loss of American lives when it is politically expedient?
We COULD put and end to this war!
http://www.onenewsnow.com/2007/02/more_americans_killed_by_illeg.php

Ron Paul Statement on Iraq
Ron Paul Statement on the Iraq War Resolution

Do you agree with Ron Paul the biggest red herring in this debate is the constant innuendo that those who don’t support expanding the war are somehow opposing the troops?

Statement by Ron Paul

This grand debate is welcomed but it could be that this is nothing more than a distraction from the dangerous military confrontation approaching with Iran and supported by many in leadership on both sides of the aisle.

This resolution, unfortunately, does not address the disaster in Iraq. Instead, it seeks to appear opposed to the war while at the same time offering no change of the status quo in Iraq. As such, it is not actually a vote against a troop surge. A real vote against a troop surge is a vote against the coming supplemental appropriation that finances it. I hope all of my colleagues who vote against the surge today will vote against the budgetary surge when it really counts: when we vote on the supplemental.

The biggest red herring in this debate is the constant innuendo that those who don’t support expanding the war are somehow opposing the troops. It’s nothing more than a canard to claim that those of us who struggled to prevent the bloodshed and now want it stopped are somehow less patriotic and less concerned about the welfare of our military personnel.

Read the rest of this entry »

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/ron-paul-statement-on-the-iraq-war-resolution#more-2122


Don't think it can come to America?
Enter the site after the intro.
About half way down the text is a map showing the locations of terrorist cells in America.
I have no idea why they have not been closed down.
http://www.usawakeup.org

MyOpine AGREEMENT ALERT!
"Is anyone so naive as to think this IslamoNazi war will end if America retreats from Iraq?
Iraq is simply the present battlefield."

I agree completely and it is a a training and recruiting tool for Iraq and an all out effort for the US. It is past time to take it to Al Q and stop letting out troops waste in the desert

Clyde9
"What has this congress proposed to correct the problems being faced? For increasing active duty strength? To replace outdated weapons systems? To improve on-the-ground intelligence efforts?"

More than fair question. The past CR they forced increased vehicle, training and other equipment on the Bush Regime in addition to demanding units be reequiped and military healthcare be bolstered including Walter Reed. Bush called this excess spending other R's called it pork. This budget cycle who knows all that is in negotiation but the D's are the ones demanding beefed up military. The Bush Regime seems and it boggles my mind seems to care less after 2008. Intel is classified but I know it is on the D radar screen. To date their manpower efforts are limited to demanding full personnel for units. I know in the past it did not seem that way but now the only friend the military has is the Democrats.

Hal
Long ago, our military should have drawn a jurisdictional line, subjected the first Civilian Judge who stepped over it to military Court Martial and tossed him in the Brig for a few months.

stephen
Iraq would have to al Qaeda for the civilian population that can be drafted and trained with oil wealth.
That should be obvious to anyone.
Iraq would eventually need to be retaken at some time in the future and the cost in lives would be high.

_______________
This part is just a gut hunch.
I think al Qaeda is holding back on operations in America to avoid angering the american people until after the Democrats give them Iraq.
I expect terrorist attacks on American soil to begin as soon as the issue is resolved either way.

And I hope my hunch is wrong.

correction
al Qaeda would have the oil wealth of Iraq to train drafted Iraqi civilians.

dems and the war
They keep talking about how they can do things better. After destroying the morale of the military how will they rally them to any cause. You can fight for what you believe and hold dear. Dems are invested in defeat. How will being in charge suddenly make them winners. Murtha their so called expert doesn't pocess a clue. Better he stick with earmarks and stealing our money to pay off his contributors than to be called in to run any offensive the military might be required to fight

the white feather
the brits used to send those they considered cowards a white feather. Pelosi and reid and their despicable crowd are entitled to recieve bushels of these cowards feathers

Samir Sumaidaie...
the Iraqi Amb. to the U.S. said that al-Quida goals in Iraq are more than just to drive out Americans.

So the leftist are right again, al-Quida wants to drive the U.S. out of Iraq.

The U.S. has mounted major offensives in Iraq and Afganistan.

So the lefist are right again, the U.S. is streached thin.

588 reenlistments on the 4th of July, 166 new citiziens.

So the leftist are right again, low U.S. troop moral.

PAK Pres. launches offensive against al-Quida strongholds.

So the left is right again, terrorist santuaries in Pakistan.

DemonicRAT congress does not vote to increase troop levels or fight till we win.

So the leftist are right again, America will fall from the inside, hung by our own rope.

It's been a lovely war, see you in Tehran.

MyOpine
"This part is just a gut hunch.
I think al Qaeda is holding back on operations in America to avoid angering the american people until after the Democrats give them Iraq.
I expect terrorist attacks on American soil to begin as soon as the issue is resolved either way."

Hmm and I am fairly certain that Al Q has been holding back because we are doing EXACTLY what they want. In either case, time to look out

ET1
"DemonicRAT congress does not vote to increase troop levels or fight till we win."

Are you guys still trying that old trick of mixing a lie and a seeming truth but still a lie? Yawn. It is the Bush Regime saying no to equipment and troops not the D's. The D's are also the one saying let's attack Al Q and friends instead of serving as training aids in the desert


wildwest + FOOL LMAO
"dems and the war
They keep talking about how they can do things better. After destroying the morale of the military how will they rally them to any cause. You can fight for what you believe and hold dear. Dems are invested in defeat. How will being in charge suddenly make them winners. Murtha their so called expert doesn't pocess a clue. Better he stick with earmarks and stealing our money to pay off his contributors than to be called in to run any offensive the military might be required to fight"


It is over guy your chickenhawks are seen as just that. Military have woken up after three or more deployments and said these guys have no clue. They also say but hey while my family suffers from fewer services and less help I hear Bush is urging all to shop. Hell some even heard Bush bought a pink cowbay hat to go with his no cattle...

ET1
I doubt you will be anywhere near Iran

Hal
If you keep agreeing with me you are going to get us both in trouble!


I would like to see some fresh news from Somalia.
It has been too quiet for too long.
The last I heard was that al Qaeda got their butts kicked out of Somalia.

(And probably boarded the next planes for Syria.)

oneofus
"It still amazes me ... "

There, there guy relax and take a deep breath...
This is nothing new. Remember communism? Soviet Union? All these fear mongers want you scared. Rest easy we are and will protect you. More a case of Jimmy Stewart than John Wayne

MyOpine
We wacked them good in Somalia but now I am hearing the opposite. They are again entrenching and growing. I hope you are right not me but I find the lack of news ominous

MyOpine
"If you keep agreeing with me you are going to get us both in trouble!

I know scary I will try not too LOL


Folks
Good night and be well

Hal Donahue
Calling people ChickenHawk?
Insulting every Conservative on the thread?
That is much better and more like you.
Of course you are full of crap as usual.
ET1 is also Navy.
I don't know the others but I am sure you will end up with egg on your face again.

Reason is more persuasive than name calling.
(Sound strange from me?)


Hal
The the benifit of your being a glittering jewel of colosal ignorance, is blinding you opponents so you can get close enough to cut them with you rapier like wit.

stephen
Since you are a simpleton and lack logic let alone common sense I will attempt to simplify this for you. The reason you aren't fighting in the streets right now is one they are tied up fighting in Iraq. They have limited resources and fighters right now, until the Dems hand over Iraq. Think Taliban with money. Also as stated by the Saudi's, the Kuwaiti's, Jordanians, United Arab Emirates, and Dubai among the smaller ones you will see a broader war in the ME. They have pledged to defend the Sunni at all costs already. Forget about the bloodbath that will ensue, think about what it will do not only to our economy but the economy of the world. Do you like being employed and eating? I could go into much broader detail and more reasoning but I thought the kiss priniple applied to you.

In 1975 I actually...
trained Iranians in the operation and maintenance of the electronics of there Ayatollah class DD's. So if we do take Iran, I will at least still have some of my students who, If they are still alive, will give me a personal tour. MY tailor who is Iranian says he will help me find the Officers and men I trained when it safe to do so.

There is a good retort to the above comment, but I know you'll never figure out what it is.

stephen
One more thing...redeployment is just a pretty way of saying retreat.

ET1
Your comments are making me laugh out loud and my husband is looking at me funny...

Might as well post funny stuff because the ignorance, simple mindeness, lack of common sense on this board today is beyond belief! I grow weary of stupid people.

Democrats
This is what they didn't explain to us in 8th grade civics classes: What do you do in a democracy, or a democratic republic or whatever we have here when one of the two political parties that roughly split the voting population of the country—is clearly working against the best interests of the nation?

And what's more, when that party is insisting on our defeat in a war that may determine our national survival?

Do you just keep on dealing with them as though they had some legitimacy as a representative of the national will? Do you still consider them just a party that disagrees with you, but occupies a moral ground that is comparable to your own? Do you avoid thinking of them as the enemy and wondering whether they are accepting money from the people who are trying to annihilate us?

I don't know the answers to those questions, but I am confused about them when I remember the lessons from Civics 101. Also, I worry a great deal about the future of a country that is forced somehow to endure the national insult of having people like them in possession of any considerable measure of power.

But I'm confused about what to do. So I'm resolving my confusion by buying guns and lots of ammunition.

asesino

Well, heres the thing....
It seems to me that the Defeatocrats are of the mind that if we pull out the bulk of the troops from Iraq, they will need to be redeployed to other area of the world to fight terror.
So even if they were able to force Bush's hand, which they are not, the idea that the troops would come home is ridiculous.
This is nothing more than a posture for power, which is all the left has been able to do since they won the majority (or rather, the conservatives lost the majority).
Bottom line?
Iraq is where al-qaeda decided to make the front line.
That's where the fight is becuase thats where THEY chose to make it.
Leaving gives them the win and makes them stronger.
A power vaccuum will develop, and Iran, Syria and Al-Qaeda will cut up Iraq and murder millions.
Bad idea, dems. Everyone would like the military folks to come home - but what happens after that?
Even more important - why isn't anyone asking Pelosi, Reid, Murtha, and Hoyer what THEY think will happen when we leave?

Jeffislouie
"So even if they were able to force Bush's hand, which they are not, the idea that the troops would come home is ridiculous."

Actually, Bush has lost the support of the people and now he has lost the support of the military and then the Extreme consrevative talkers finished any support he had.

Bring troops home? Some ceratinly would come home and the big question is how do we rebuild the military. That Bush has nearly disarmed


"Bottom line? Iraq is where al-qaeda decided to make the front line. That's where the fight is becuase thats where THEY chose to make it."

Where and how did you ever decide that? LMAO data please

"Leaving gives them the win and makes them stronger."

Short term possibly yes. Long term not a chance if we begin to fight them rather than provide a training ground for them

"A power vaccuum will develop, and Iran, Syria and Al-Qaeda will cut up Iraq and murder millions."

First Al Q will do no such thing and neither will Iran and Syria if we withdraw responsibily.

I hope these are just your reading of someone else's talking points because you are being sooo mislead

The "surge"
I am a republican and frankly sick of hearing about the "surge". We have had carte blanche for over 4 years in Iraq. What good will another month do? Leave quickly..of COURSE not. But leave? YES!! have a plan...YES...that will give some leverage to the Iraqis who need to light a fire under the leaders in that country.

I am also sick of do gooders ripping americans who don't agree with their government's actions. It's called democracy, girls, get over it. Even some conservatives still believe in small government and the right of people to be in charge of their government. Falling in line and marching to the tune of politicians [republican or democrat] is something but it isn't courage.

Stephen...
"al qaeda wasn't in iraq until america invaded iraq. additionally, the al qaeda in iraq is not the same thing as the al qaeda that attacked us on sept. 11."

True. Al-Qaeda wasn't in Iraq until we went in to take out Hussein (which was unrelated to 9-11.
But once we were there, they were more than happy to show up, organize a new front line, and fight.
If there is another reason they are there, I would love to hear it.
But they thrive on chaos....
Leaving Iraq opens up a huge safe area where they can recruit and train more terrorists.
We are in a training mode in Iraq. Training takes time and we need to weed out corruption.
Here's a link where the leader of Al-Qaeda in Iraq says that Iraq is the "centerpiece of the anti-American fight".
There are plenty of other articles that have led me to the conclusion that Al-Qaeda sees Iraq as the front line of a war against the US and the west.

"thanks for playing, better luck next time."

Interesting that in a forum of ideas, your response ends with an immature concept. This is not a game. I am not playing. And I don't need 'luck' to formulate opinions.
Grow up. Argue my points all you want, but immature responses that amount to 'shut up, dummy' debase you.

dal donohue
Frankly speaking, responding to you is a waste of both of our times.
You always think I'm wrong and you always will.
Why should I waste my time explaining myself to someone who doesn't give a crap about what I have to say?

"I hope these are just your reading of someone else's talking points because you are being sooo mislead"

You assume I am reading someone elses talking points because that's what people like you do. You ignore what I say and dismiss it as someone else's ideas.

You claim Bush lost support of the military, but I disagree. Sure, you know better. But I just spoke to a friend who's kid just re-upped. For the second time.
He wants to be there. He believes that being there means something. As a matter of fact, I've spoken to about a dozen military families in the last few months. All of them had kids that re-upped. All of the kids believe that the mission is a good one.
But you probably know better than the troops on the ground though.


Jeffislouie
I do care about what you say that is why I so often copmment on it. I would hate for others to be misled also.

"But you probably know better than the troops on the ground though."

I don't know where your bunker is located but I too speak with the troops on the ground and between three and six months ago the number of military supporting Bush in Iraq went below 50% and that shift is accelerating. That is personal from talking to troops at all levels. Not to compare numbers but I have spoken with well over 100 troops and their families.

We have a professional military. They want to accomplish the mission. Personnally I know several who reenlisted simply to help put the military back together again after this debacle. But do not believe for a second that a professional warrior doesn't think. He/she does and they are not dumb. Would I want to go back and support my comrades you bet; would I approve how the Bush Regime is expnding us? No way. Would I go and fight bravely? Yes

stephen
"they were not in iraq.
we went into iraq.
they showed up in iraq.

this chain of events leads me to the conclusion that they are following us."

I hope you are wrong because that means that if we bring our troops home, they will follow.
That would be a problem.

stephen
Thank you for your service and if you or your mates need anything let me know.

hey girl
how are you?

Hey dems,
YOU are the biggest reason the war hasn't progressed. You've been against it from the beginning, as well as EVERY single measure our President has proposed to stem terrorism. Terrorists know this and they know the Dems have betrayed our soldiers. They won't stop now, why should they? So they will continue to wreak havoc as they know you have no stomach for it. The Iraqi people will not commit because they watch the news too. They don't know whether we're staying or leaving, and they know all too well about what happened to the South what will happen when we pull out. Yes, your leaders and your way of thinking has helped our enemies immensely. You've done more damage to our troops than the enemy has. Traitors.

The Nitwit Leftist Crowd Kept At It
As Sunday went into Monday, the nitwit left wing crowd kept at it, convinced that if they keep posting, their viewpoint will be accepted. It won't be. The "arguments" of the nitwit leftists are nonsense, the product of people who don't know what they are talking about and who have certain left wing biases that color what they say. Again, I say on behalf of my older son who is a U.S. Army First Lieutenant (with Ranger tab) serving in harm's way as a platoon leader in Iraq and his fellow soldiers, go to h3ll.

phylo out is 'out of it'
Regarding your post of Sunday, July, 15, 2007 2:36 PM .... What planet do you reside on? And, an observation ... Your planet must have a free drug program because you're definitely high on something. You couldn't be more wrong on your twisted comments as to who is emboldening our enemies ...
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