Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Sunday, May 27, 2007
Robert Bluey :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Politics of Amnesty
by Robert Bluey
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Was the Copenhagen Global Warming Summit Walk-Out a Win for the U.S.?


The amnesty deal negotiated by Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.) and the White House has Karl Rove’s fingerprints all over it. Plain and simple, it’s bad public policy being used to advance a political agenda.

We’ve seen this happen before, most notably in 2003 when Rove and President Bush strong-armed Republicans in Congress into supporting the largest entitlement program since the days of LBJ’s Great Society. The Medicare prescription drug bill, conservative critics were told, would guarantee Republicans the majority for decades.

Three years later, the GOP was knocked out of power in Congress, and if the party keeps heading down the same path, it’s destined to lose the White House in 2008.

You’d think Republicans would have learned their lesson when voters sent them packing last Election Day. But as the immigration debate clearly demonstrates, the White House is once again intent on vastly expanding government to achieve a political goal.

What’s remarkable is that attacks on conservatives as “restrictionists” and “nativists” were spread not just by liberals last week. The pro-amnesty Wall Street Journal used its editorial page to attack the very people who are trying to defend the rule of law. The Bush administration also hammered away at anyone who questioned the bill’s amnesty-first approach toward illegal aliens.

What’s driving the White House to fight its base? Bush and Rove have adopted a short-term political plan of wooing Hispanics and a long-range mission to cement the president’s legacy.

As Bush loyalist and former Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman recently argued, “Reaching out to Hispanics is critical to our future. The fastest-growing, and most conservative, segment of the population are natural Republicans. The question is whether we will reach out and welcome these new voters into our ranks.”

Mehlman favors a comprehensive approach to immigration reform -- as do many conservatives, including The Heritage Foundation. However, Mehlman’s characterizing the policy as a way of welcoming “new voters into our ranks” reveals what’s wrong with using legislation to advance political ends.

Just as Rove had no way of guaranteeing that seniors with the prescription-drug benefit would pull the level for Republicans on Election Day, Mehlman has no way of promising Hispanics will flock to the GOP. And let’s face it, Bush won’t get credit for this immigration deal even if it does somehow manage to make its way out of Congress and to his desk. The Bush-hating media would paint it as a victory for Democrats -- as well they should, considering all the concessions Kennedy was able to extract.

In fact, after just one week of debate, Senate Democrats are steamrolling the small band of conservative Republicans raising objections to the bill. With Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) wanting to have the debate wrapped up a week after senators return from their Memorial Day vacation, there will be little time to even raise important policy questions.

Senate Republican leaders, some of whom were intricately involved in the negotiations with Kennedy, have capitulated to the Democrats’ demands. They’ve stalled most amendments from even coming up for a vote. Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas), who has offered an amendment to strip the bill of language that would allow gang members to remain in the United States, couldn’t get a vote last week. Sen. David Vitter (R-La.) had his amendment to remove the amnesty section of the bill temporarily blocked by fellow Republican Sen. Lamar Alexander (Tenn.).

It’s Republicans such as Alexander, who is up for re-election in 2008, who could suffer most for putting politics ahead of policy during the immigration debate. With 21 Republican seats in play next year, and plenty of those senators vulnerable, you would expect them to think twice before making a political calculation that could cost them their job.

Not only is political calculus often mistaken -- as in the case of the Medicare drug benefit -- but it leads to wavering, inconstant leadership subject to the whim of opinion and the dictates of special interests.

When the Senate returns in a week, the temperature in Washington is sure to rise. Even the most conservative senators will be pressured to support the legislation. But as long as politics trumps policy, the so-called “grand bargain” will still be a grand failure.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author
Robert B. Bluey is director of the Center for Media & Public Policy at The Heritage Foundation and maintains a blog at RobertBluey.com
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.
Dear Mr. President and Senators
This "Comprehensive Sellout of the American Citizen" will have consequences you have not even considered, not that you care.

I have been an active civic minded citizen for 47 years. Flying my flag on Flag day, July Fourth, Veterans Day, Memorial Day, etc. Standing for the national anthem. Serving on juries when requested. Serving on community boards. Voting in every election.

Our Constitutional Republic rests on the premise of consent of the citizens. If you succeed in jamming this amnesty down the throats of the American citizens you will have broken the contract. I will henceforth consider myself just another permanent resident. All of my positive citizenship activities will stop. I will remove the U.S. flags from my home and vehicles. I will ignore whatever laws get in the way of my "having a better life", just like the illegal aliens. I will dodge jury duty. Shade on my taxes any time I can. No more Good Samaratin acts. No more litter patrols. No more volunteering. No more charitable donations. No more USO donations. My son will not serve in your Armed Forces. I will only be looking out for myself, just like the cheap labor importers and hispandering vote whores. God help the U.S.A.

The GOP
An uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

All the visual clarity of Mr. Magoo.

Topped by the strategic acumen of a French Field Marshal.





A new Contract with America
Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. The way to deal with this critical turning point in our nations history is not to turn away from the republican party, but to purge it. What we need now is a new “Contract with America” based on Newt Gingrichs original. It brought in a whole new class of freshman Congressmen committed
to a specific agenda, when the elites were trying to sell us out. Sound familiar?.Some suggestions to start with.
#1 The expulsion, not accommodation of every last illegal alien. This does not include simply declaring them legal. This will result more from attrition as laws are enforced than from outright deportation.
#2 The commitment to sealing our borders with the military.
#3 The commitment to ruthlessly enforcing workplace and renting to illegals laws.
#4 Putting a stop to all Government benefits, services, and aid to illegals.
#5 A radical restructuring of our relationship with Mexico. Acknowledging the principles that we owe Mexico absolutely nothing. That no Mexican interest or government will be allowed any say in American policy. That they need us vastly more than we need them. That we will not tolerate any attempt to export their problems here. There are nations that American business is restricted from doing business with, and being on our border does not exempt Mexico. Cuba is not much further away. If this creates a “Cold War” situation, fine. This has been the case through much of our history anyway. This may damage our economy but the current policy of pandering will destroy it.
#6 The in depth investigation of the corruption and blatently anti law enforcement activities of U.S. officials on the border. The Ramos/Campeon case. The catering to Mexican gangsters. Make it a national priority to expose and bring to justice those responsible, no matter how high the trail leads. The Total Commitment to the principle that we will not tolerate the infection of our country with Mexicos culture of corruption.
#7 The classification of La Raza and other radical pro illegal advocacy groups as terrorist/criminal organizations, like Hamas or Al Queda. This may be difficult to sell the American people on at first, but when they see the tide turning against them it is hard to believe that they will not move beyond mere hateful rhetoric.
One has only to look to Lebanon today to see the future of America if these groups continue to grow in power.
It is not impossible to save our country. The open border crowd would have us believe that their vision is an inescapable force of history, but if all Americans stand together we can be unbeatable.

Heritage Supports Comprehensive Reform?
"Mehlman favors a comprehensive approach to immigration reform -- as do many conservatives, including The Heritage Foundation". Perhaps I am very confused on this issue, but my understanding was that the Heritage Foundation had come out four square against this "Comprehensive" Amnesty Bill. Click on the Heritage link that the article provides and it specifically says "no amnesty". Somebody please tell me I am right and that the Heritage Foundation in no way supports this mess.

Neo-CONNED! by Congressman Ron Paul

What is a real a Conservative?

Please watch this video and comment.

Click Here

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/neo-conned-by-congressman-ron-paul

Sammy
You are right. I read the Heritage Foundation Article, and I didn't see where they supprort this Scamnesty. I looks to me like they are saying to enforce the rules already on the books. I think the best way to stop the Illegal Invasion, is to make the employers ensure that the name and Social Security number match, or they get no tax credit for their wages. That would dry up the work pool fast.

Illegals
Folks - I think those of us on this site are merely preaching to the choir. Like most of you, I have called, emailed, written all my elected officials including the national administration. Most simply ignore us, although I must say my two "Democratic" Senators in West Virginia, have (so far), voted against "amnesty" provisions in the Bill. I think Ted Kennedy and his ilk have put enough "mumbo jumbo" in the legislation to give some of the Republicans political cover, so I am very pessimistic about our chances of defeating this legislation. Sadly, it appears, both Democratics and Republicans will share in the ultimate destruction of our nation.

Robert
And, I fogot to add to my original post - after the nation is destroyed - nuts and fruitcakes such as Robert will reign supreme! Not a pleasant thought!

Single Issue Congress
Congress has one concern and one concern only...re-election. They'll do whatever it takes to buy votes irrespective of the cost to American. Guess who gets to pay for it all!! We've been paying for the "war on poverty" for decades to buy the Black vote. We've been paying for the seasoned citizen vote for decades with social sccurity and just boosted that vote with the new prescription drug program. We buy farmer's votes with various grants and relief bills. Now we're racing to see which party can pay for the Hispanic vote with the sweat and toil of hard working American citizens. Lobbyists have been paying our dear congresspersons for decades to rape the American worker in order to fill the pockets of a few businessmen who in turn continue to fill the pockets of politicians. This "immigration reform" is just the latest deal to buy votes with tax dollars from hard working Americans trying to do the best they can for their families. Get ready to dig deeper and grab your vaseline everyone.

Don't compare Mr. Magoo with GOP!
Mr. Magoo is a friend of mine.

The GOP needs radical surgery:

1) It must cease this expansionist, aggressive Wilsonian foreign policy to foster "democracy" throughout the mideast and world, either thru employing our military in nation-building schemes, or sanctimonious lecturing to the Russians and others. Jimmy Carter and G.W. Bash have alot in common on foreign policy in the mideast. Carter undermined the shah of Iran in the name of democracy, leading to the radical Shia govt of Ayatollah Khomeini, and G. W. Bush removed the despot Saddam Hussein in the name of democracy, leading to a Shia-based Iraqi government heavily influenced by Iran.

2) GOP needs to reject the Bush-McCain-Kennedy Immigration legislation, and structure an immigration policy that puts the interests of the United States first...specifically a plan that encourages immigrants with advanced educational backgrounds and specialized skills. This would enrich our nation. Currently, our immigration policy encourages immigrants who are ignorant, illiterate, have no education or skills. This must cease. It is destructive to our nation.

3) GOP needs to reduce the size of the federal government, rather than increasing its size(as is the case under Bush). An ever-intrusive federal government is hostile to the idea of individual liberty. The smaller size in government will result in less government spending.

Bluey is on target in his analysis that waves of illiterate, unskilled 3rd world immigrants will not become good little GOPERS. They will vote democrat(the party of entitlements). Rove and others are simply clueless. Bush never got credit for the prescription drug plan. And hordes of 3rd world immigrants will not give this administration credit for a lax immigration policy.

GOP must rid itself of the deleterious influence of both neocons and theocons...a "double wammy" thata threatens to destroy the party.

Robert
You have NO right to speak to Virginia Patriot that way. Oh wait I guess you do- The constitution guarentees it.

It also gives me the right to tell you that you sir are an AS*. The way you so ignorantly back-hand Virginia Patriot's service to this country is absolutely inexcusable. I know- YOU think you're clever!

The rest of us think you are an insufferable mannerless idiot. Please leave. now.

(oh- and take your balloons with you-what are you, 10?)

Robert
Robert - you appear to be attributing quotes to me that I did not make. Likewise, you appear to be throwing out the "I carried a badge" deal. Well, I can "see your I carried a badge" and probably raise you. I too carried a badge and was the head of a law enforcement agency upon retirement. Now, what does that have to do with the illegal immigration bill pending before the Senate? I am opposed to amnesty and the destruction of this nation and am not going to change my mind. Obviously, you see things differently and are not going to change your mind. My sincere hope is that politicians and people of your ilk do not take the rest of us down the tubes with you. Finally, I shall waste no more time on the likes of you!

Roy Beck it's the numbers STUPID!
Maybe we should put this controversy before the countrys' children. Apparently elementary school children could explain the reason why this plan is Ridiculously disastrous. Try adding 100 million more people to any country in the span of 40 years and watch the disaster unfold.

As for Rove and Bush...The only reason for them to FLOOD the country with Mexicans is to begin their plan for The North American Union by default. The underhanded and treasonous actions of these two has no equal in American history.

Robert
Your attempts to craft arguments are silly at best - so many cobbled together generalities that are themselves facetious. And the rest of it could be culled from the speeches of fascists speaking of their totalitarian regimes. Real clever.

Report critical of Bush
Report critical of Bush immigration record

Why would President Bush start enforcing immigration laws after a new bill when he is not doing it now?

CNN-WASHINGTON (AP) — Immigration arrests under President Bush are “stagnant and unimpressive” despite massive increases in Border Patrol agents and other immigration enforcement measures imposed since 2000, a report found.
Bush promoted border enforcement successes this week while pushing Congress for a comprehensive immigration policy overhaul. But the centrist private group Third Way questioned his record in a study released Thursday. It found that arrests and deportations are down almost 30 percent since the Clinton years.

“The decline in immigration enforcement has been steady, dramatic and long-standing,” said Jim Kessler, the group’s vice president for policy and a co-author of the report. “This may not be the cause of our illegal immigration crisis, but it has certainly contributed to it.”

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/report-critical-of-bush-immigration-record

The Real Issue
One thing is absolutely certain - we will surely never win this fight as long as we follow orders about what we can and cannot discuss. I am tired of hearing that this debate is about "the rule of law," that this isn't an issue of race, and that the debate is only about ILLEGAL immigration. Look at the people on the opposite side of the fence. Do you think race doesn't matter to them? Do you honestly think they even want American citizenship...at least as we have defined that term in this country for over 200 years? How can we have seen hundreds of thousands of invaders marching in our streets, flying the Mexican flag and defiling that of the United (sic) States, shouting demands for us to give back this "stolen land," and still claim this isn't an issue of race?

When we allow ourselves to be silenced by the charge of racism, we have already lost the fight. If the Senate thought for one second that White America - Traditional America - would not tolerate this treasonous betrayal from them, this abomination of a "bill" would never have been thought of, let alone seen the Senate floor. But we go along, continuing to vote Republican because we fantasize that they are different from Democrats, regurgitating the platitudes about our great-great-grandfathers from Italy or Ireland or wherever, and pretending not to see the difference between that wave of immigrants and our current policies that place thousands of Somali refugees in Lewiston, Maine. Wasn't losing the State of California enough? Didn't anybody notice the census report that was issued the same day as this sellout was announced? There are now 100 million non-Whites in this country, and the number grows every day. But we accept that news with a collective yawn and continue our "rule of law" nonsense. No wonder they view us with such contempt - we won't even stand up for ourselves even as we see our culture dying before our eyes.

This is the planned destruction of our culture and our race, nothing more, nothing less. And I'm not going to pretend otherwise anymore. They already have the "Us vs. Them" mentality. If we continue to play by the rules they set, we might as well cozy up to the idea of our grandchildren speaking Spanish and being a minority in their own country. If that thought doesn't push us into action, nothing will.


Tinfoil hat Robert.
So you carried a badge, did you then let the illegals swarm across OUR border?
Tell me which laws I can break?
Can I use fake documents?
Steal someone else's ID, so that they have to spend thousands getting back their good name?
Can I work under the table, and NOT pay my taxes?
Can our citizens have Medicaid pay for our babies?
Well Sir, my Daughter 16 years with MS isn't allowed Medicaid, and she's a legal citizen.
AND so what if anyone of us voted for Bush, it is TEDDY boy that is pushing this BS. Teddy boy who did it behind closed doors.
So if you want them, go ahead sign on the dotted line that YOU will be responsible for them.
THEY were the ones who broke OUR laws, we aren't sneaking into Mexico, and taking their beachfront property, (which we are denied even if we became a citizen).
AND your BS about all of our ancestors coming here and going through the same BS, is NOT true.
The other immigrants (legal) didn't come here in the MILLIONS, all from ONE country in a short time span.
They didn't put their flag over ours, and turn ours upside down, they kissed the ground they were so happy to come to this country. Sorry sir, your just a babbling leftie.
Go drink your flavor of the day and put on your tinfoil hat.
Sorry, but the latinos, come here, pop out those anchor babies (at our expense), then sob and wring their hands, about the mean gringos breaking up their families. Like they didn't know they were taking that chance? Yes, that is precisely WHY they are doing that!
They will never be considered citizens because they were FORCED on us, we didn't get the chance to VOTE on it!
Knowing you, you will say "yes" we did, by the people we elected, BUT when they say they are for NO amnesty, then when re-elected promptly vote the other way, who is shafted.
Go ahead, let us know where you live, we can send you a few thousand. OK?

Robert
Wrote the other day that he is an illegal alien, is why he is so ignorant!!!!!!!!

There you understand his insanity, and lack of real knowledge.

Don't Bother
Why waste your time arguing with people like Robert? Don't argue with the enemy - rally your own troops. You're not going to convert him.

I'm currently printing out flyers urging my community to deluge the Senate with calls. I'll be heading out to distribute them in an hour or so. Fight the political fight now, while you still can. Because if this bill passes, things are not going to be solved by political means in the future.

Just don't throw up your hands and ask, "well what can I do?"

Fingerprints
This bill has the fingerprints of the Whig Party of the 1840s all over it. If an immigration bill passes, which party will benefit the most? No wonder Kennedy is smiling, but what the h**l is Goober Graham laughing about?

It's complicated only if you
make it that way.

The people involved with this issue who broke the law can not be pleased!

Americans will not tolerate attempts to appease the people who broke the law!

To average Americans, this is a concept not that hard to grasp and yet eludes those in leadership positions.

When training a mule, you must first be smarter, than the mule.

Seems a great many of our electives could use some serious Dr. Phil time, how's that work'n for ya?

Robert:
You urge people to face the "reality" that, one
way or another, illegal aliens in this country
are here to stay. Two points:
1)The amnesty bill (it IS amnesty; no fines or
any other penalty will ever be enforced) will
encourage further illegal immigration, probably
to the tune of 30-40 million.
2)The illegals here already could be easily
driven back to their countries by simply enfor-
cing sanctions against employers who hire them.

The mass-scale immigration you seem to support
would break the culture and economy of this
nation. Please reconsider your position. We
should be picking and choosing among the best
potential immigrants, not simply allowing
hordes of unskilled, uneducated people to
overrun our borders.

Robert carried a badge?
One that didn't come out of a Cracker Jack box? Did a gun go with it?


Now, THERE'S a scary thought!


Amnesy
Since this illegal amnesty worries me sick I read all pertinent articles I can find. Admittedly, they all seem to come from Conservative/Republican viewpoints and I get the impression that only they are against this bill.

Please, if anybody is, or knows about Liberals/Democrats, tell me whether people in that group are also against this Amnesty bill and write to their senators/congressmen or are only those on the right fighting this insane bill?

Government Unhappy with Citizens
Government Unhappy with Citizens, Seeks New Constituency.

We've been told by Bush and a number of others that the Mexican invasion needs to be legitimized, for these noble fellows are doing the work that Americans just won't do.

Economics 101 covers the topic of an economy seeking equilibrium. Obviously, if an input to production is cheap, every activity related to this input adapts and becomes dependent on it. It always seems indispensable at that point. Innovation is not needed as long as this low cost input continues to be available.

Trouble is, our businessmen and politicians have allowed such an astronomical number of foreign nationals invade, that they have become utterly dependent on them. Bush had once remarked that we had become addicted to foreign oil. He could, if he had any stature, say precisely the same thing about the massive influx of foreign nationals.

Now, the only way we are going to resolve this problem is to wean business and politicians off of their Mexican hooch. first, Democrats and Republicans alike need to start thinking beyond their bellybuttons and short term interests. Ponder what it means to be a nation, look up sovereignty in the dictionary, and throw these craven, lazy and traitorous politicians of both parties out on their cans.

The next step is not so easy. All through the course of this invasion, businesses have tripped over themselves catering to the invaders. They have given them credit cards, sold them homes, sold them every imaginable product of course. none of this is prima facia bad naturally, but it has made their bottom lines heavily dependent on a domestic market that shouldn't even exist.

Well, you and I own stock in thousands of companies that have been so anxious to service the invasion, that their stocks will fall once that segment of the market dries up. So, in my opinion, this next step needs to be handled gradually. The hot real estate market of the last few years was largely propped by the invasion of mexicans who would take over lower and lower-mid range housing, freeing us up to build and bid for new, fancy-pants, big and bling McMansions at a rate unsupported by our own productivity. I bet you thought you were a real estate genius in the last few years, right? Actually, you were benefiting from the astronomical giveaway of national sovereignty.

so, we have all lived beyond our means for nearly two decades by allowing the Mexican invasion to distort the market in every way imaginable, and massively. Now, if we want our sovereignty back, it's not going to be pretty. That guy that bought his 3,500 square foot waferboard palace with professional kitchen, three cars and $1,000 barbecue all for nothing down and with variable rate financing at a price that would have seemed
Trump-esque just a few years ago is going to hurt. There will no longer be a fake market propping up the price he just paid.

This, I think, although they don't say it, is the primary reason why so many don't want to do the right thing and enforce our borders along with workplace laws. it would be a shock to the system, like a junkie in jail who can't get his fix, it's going to seem like the end of the world.

So, how can we gradually adapt from having allowed ourselves to become hooked on 12 to 20 million economic units? It should be a gradually exchange over a period of years, where the borders are first enforced, internal laws are once again enforced, and the invading forces are gradually expelled through attrition. Perhaps temporary work permits could be employed, non-renewable at some point. This would give the individuals a measure of time to get their affairs in order before departing for home.

The housing glut that would occur could be gradually filled by the continued allowance of legal immigration until such time that a balance is struck. Then, we ought to have a constitutional amendment REQUIRING the federal government to maintain national sovereignty and a break-even rate of immigration. This way, national sovereignty will not again be compromised by short-term political interests. The federal government will no longer be allowed to prop up faux economic numbers by allowing a massive invasion from a foreign nation, making our politicans depend on and cater to them.

Can we do it?

I doubt it.

This has been the largest invasion in all of human history. It's effects within our borders are far reaching and massive. We have all become soft and dependent on it. I think that we will capitulate in the end. One half of us are always ready to capitulate anyway.

So, this may be the first unraveling of the United States. Under the addled eyes of the "Least Great Generation", just a few decades removed from the Greatest Generation, who sacrificed so much to save the world from tyranny, we will capitulate and give up a massive measure of sovereignty for a few pieces of silver in our pockets, a big truck in the driveway, and a fancy-pants house.

news coverage on ILLEGAL aliens
I watched "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" just now... they had this panel to discuss ILLEGAL aliens, etc. --> Ron Brownstein, L.A. Times; Jake Tapper, ABC (SALON.com, NPR); Donna Brazile, 'Crat Srategist; and George Will (RINO).

Brownstein spoke of an "energized minority" which opposes ILLEGAL aliens. OH REALLY?! He noted further that 26 Republican (read: RINO) Senators voted for an amendment this week favoring ILLEGALS-- like they are not bought and paid for by the Conspiracy Of Evil, Ron?!?!

Earlier, the liberal George S. interviewed Senator Bob Menendez and Commerce Sec. Carlos Gutierrez about the pending Scamnesty bill. They accepted as a GIVEN that we should naturalize the 20 million already here-- it was simply a debate on the margin about how many of their myriad relatives to invite in also, since all spouses and children and parents can come regardless! This means that of the 7 people who were discussing what to do about the ILLEGAL alien crisis on the hour-long show, 6 were card-carrying liberals, and George Will is a rich "elite" Beltway insider who only grudgingly has noted that Middle America is DEEPLY concerned about the morphing of America into a third world country.

At NO time WHATSOEVER did ANYONE ackowledge that Middle America has views such as those reflected here:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back906.html
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20530

It sure is reassuring to know that there is no liberal bias in the MM... that we can count on fair and balanced discussions over Sunday morning coffee-- even as Congress plots to sell out America for cheap labor and votes.

Comprende espanol, amigos?
_______________________________________________

CONTACT YOUR REPS IN CONGRESS ASAP FOLKS.... TELL THEM YOU WANT TO STOP SCAMNESTY... IT IS EASY TO REACH THEM RIGHT HERE:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

Bookmark it and contact them often! If you want subject specific messages already prepared that you can fax/e-mail, go here:

http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

Immigration - not help the debate
Amnesty seems to be a loaded word these days among conservatives. It doesn't just seem to mean a pardon for a misdemeanor but forgiveness for an unforgiveable crime. Illegal immigrants aren't felons simply by entering the country. Some of them may be, but that is incidental. Maybe the "Machiavellian" Karl Rove is behind everything the President Bush does, but I do believe that any president, in times such as these, would want to know who is in our country.

Do we really want to announce we are going to punish all illegal immigrants by jailing them or forcing them, one way or the other, to leave the country? If you were a poor illegal immigrant instead of a well-to-do conservative, what would you do? Would you skidaddle or would you go underground? You don't trust the government to punish employers who hire illegals under the new proposal, why would you trust the government to control the hiring of illegals in the situation where many choose to stay and take their chances?

We will have a wall half built, an identification system using fingerprints, we will know who the honest people are (people who have come forward), the people who don't want to be identified will be found eventually, one by one, and escorted out of the country or arrested for their criminal activities. And if they come in illegally in the future, they will be dealt with as if they had not come forward when the chance was given to them. But we will need a system for allowing workers into our country who want eventually to return home. As long as we have a prosperous economy, we will continue to need workers but don't assume that everyone who wants to work here will want to stay here, especially since this bill does not allow all a worker's relatives to come with him.

The wall will be completed, if only because of the constant carping of conservatives. We should largely have left the hard working immigrant population that cares about family and wants to better itself. Those who did not want to identify themselves will have left or be still in our country, either working for a nest egg before they leave or working to destroy our country. Tell me how not implementing this proposed immigration reform bill will identify al qaida.

I've always considered myself a conservative and vote that way. But when I hear Rush, Hewitt and Hannity, et al., all calling this bill (and any other bill that would actually address the problem of immigration realistically) AMNESTY.... The crime ain't that big, folks, it's the equivalent of stealing a loaf of bread. And our economy really would suffer tremendously if we were actually able to "round them all up and kick them all out." If George Bush is just too compassionate and too much of a realist for conservatives, then so am I.

As a conservative, I don't want to be associated with mean old cranks. So I say to Rush, Hewitt, Hannity, et al, stop carping and haranging about all that might be wrong with this bill and make some positive additions to the debate. Co-operate with your president while you are still lucky enough to have him in office. Just building a wall will not help him identify who is in this country.

Robert:
Didn't say it would be easy - but controlling
our borders can be done, and is the right thing
to do. Uncontrolled, mass immigration cannot
continue without serious consequences for this
or any country.

If you really are or have been a law enforcement
officer, let me ask; when is it okay to break
laws? When enforcing them makes for bad "visu-
als"? When the lawbreakers are doing unpleasant
jobs?

Or is it when ignoring laws advances your pers-
onal political agenda?

on a political level!
I must say as a life long democrat, I find the internal consternation of the republican party to be so welcomed. I can't help myself ... I'm enjoying it ... oh so much.

You continue to support the most inept president, in history, on his iraq policy yet you cant live with his immigration policy ... damn y'all are between a rock and a hard spot arent you. And who knows, where the republican party is at when it comes to a real war against terrorism ...you dont have the time or the energy left to develop that policy.

2008 will be so fun ... running away from one policy and running toward the other one ... you have to hope people get confused in the voting booth ... it is your only hope. personally, i wager you will follow bush off that proverbial cliff ... wait and see.


Sammy
Judging from the guests I see on TV, the Heritage Foundation has been advertising regularly the tremendous cost associated with the amnesty bill. So, they are in no way for the "comprehensive" amnesty bill. Bluey may be mistaking the Heritage Foundation with the Cato Institute. Cato is a Libertarian group which, to my disappointment being a Libertarian, has consistently been pushing for open borders.

Ann - From an old crank
"Amnesty seems to be a loaded word these days among conservatives....As a conservative, I don't want to be associated with mean old cranks."

There is that old line again. I am a conservative, but...

As a conservative, do you care if people only pick and choose which laws they want to obey? As a conservative, does it bother you that my relatives and millions like them are applying for 'legal' entry into this country, but probably will never be approved because the illegal aliens have jumped in front of the line and taken the spots previously reserved for legal applicants? I thought conservatives believe in fairness. As a conservative, is an open border OK with you? That is exactly what this bill does. It is telling the 3000 Mexicans per day to continue pooring into this country illegally because you will be rewarded. And, don't give me the speech about the bill having provisions for enforcement, because not even you can believe that will ever happen. The most painful part of this illegal immigration mess is the cheap-labor work force taking the 'jobs Americans won't do' and driving down wages. For men ages over 30, this is the first generation where they are earning less than their parents, adjusted for inflation. Is that OK with a conservative like yourself? As a conservative, does it bother you that you have to be bilingual in order to shop at Home Depot? I am one conservative who is sick and tired of having to push 1 for English. As a conservative, does it bother you that our hospital emergency rooms are jam packed with illegal aliens who are using the emergency as their family doctor? As a conservative, does it not bother you that if we don't control the flow of immigrants, both illegal and legal, we will end up like France? Out-of-control illegal immigration has devastigated that country, enough for the liberal French voters to elect a conservative president this month?

You're damn right 'amnesty' is a loaded word!! It is contrary to every conservative's basic sense of fairness and the rule of law.

Reality
Don't bother with Robert, He has a serious problem, ie "A Short Between His Ears". He supports treason by these Senators who are hell bent on destroying America. Why I bet he even supports, Land deal Reed, Chappiquiddick Ted who tortured Mary Jo, Traitor Murtha who the Democrats refused to issue a reprimand to a few days back and lets not forget Syrian Nancy and Cold Cash Jefferson

Amnesty/Immigration
Let it be known I am predjudice! I choose my friends and they choose me. I need not be 'politically correct' to anyone or for any reason. I am. If you disagree...tuff stuff! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH from you socialists sgip!

Nobody seems to think about or mention the true immigrants who have applied for citizenship in OUR country and have been waiting for years LIKE Engineers, Scientists, Physicians, Physicists, etc., NOT UNEDUCATED CRIMINALS.

YET McCain/Kennedy has designed an AMNESTY BILL for every illegal alien (30,000 gang members in California-criminals all- how many are there in OUR country?)they are in OUR country, whether it is 20,000,000 or a dozen...this is simply against OUR laws, common sense, logic and reasoning.

We patriots have been asleep at the switch far too long. I believe now we have begun to say, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"


Amnesty/Immigration
Has anyone ever asked, WHY? WHAT IS YOUR REASON TO GRANT AMNESTY TO ILLIGAL ALIENS? Especially the millions of criminals amongst them? WHY? What's the deal behind all this insanity? Any of you leftists have an answer?

Logical amendments

Pity that amendments to the bill seem to be being blocked. I can think of some that fit right in.

Whereas the newly legalized Illegals will pay no back taxes, all tax debts from prior to 01/01/07 are forgiven (FULL DISCLOSURE: this will save me about $12K).

Whereas a single day is adequate for a background check on immigrants, so shall it be for firearms permits: find a reason to reject the application within 24 hours or give the guy his gun.

Whereas any Illegals found must be offered the amnesty, anyone found in possession of an illegal firearm must be offered permit referred to above.


Robert Facts
Al Gore was behind the open barder policy via NAFTA.

If fact in Gore's debate with Perot, he promised NAFTA would reduce illegal immigration!

We all know what happen next!

NEO LIBS and NEO CONS are sell-outs!




People like Ann...
...are the very personification of everything that is wrong with this country. She says, "AMNESTY.... The crime ain't that big, folks, it's the equivalent of stealing a loaf of bread." Nice. American Citizenship, once a highly prized status to have throughout the enitre world, can be stolen away by crossing an unenforced border - and Ann thinks it's the equivalent of stealing a loaf of bread. You're right Ann, what difference does national identity make anyway? Why should we care about our culture? Once the United (sic) States is completely inundated with tens of millions more third-worlders determined to set up their home country and culture in ours, and consume all the benefits and privileges that the federal government has to offer (at taxpayer expense, of course), it really won't make a difference anyway, will it? That is, until somebody decides that YOUR job is one that "Americans won't do." Or that we need an even MORE "diverse" student body, so your kids can't get in to college. Or that the history books need to be completely purged of any vestigages of those racist, dead white males we quaintly used to call the Founding Fathers.

Ann, you must be one of those people who still thinks George Bush is a good President, that the war in Iraq was a good idea and is going well, and that the Republican Party represents the "conservative" base. One has to wonder what would have to happen to wake you from your slumber.

If this bill passes, our new obsession should be preserving the 2nd Amendment, because that'll be all we have left to turn things around.

Robert
"I love the self angradizement..."the rule of law" crowd. What a hoot."

I thought 'the rule of law crowd' pertains to everyone, including liberals. Obeying the law is not alot of 'hoot'. You seem to think it is. And, don't give me an example of a Republican who had broken the law, such as Scooty Libby, to justify law breaking. Rule of law is not a Republican or Democrat thing. Just because one person robs a bank doesn't make it OK for 20 million people to rob the bank.

I have been reading your posts this month. Do you have an alias named 'crazy liberal'. You sound very much like him. Crazy Liberal has said repeatedly said this country is totally screwed up and that he can't wait to move to France. Do this great country a favor and move your sorry a_ss to France, too. You will be much happier there.

Death of Republican Party
What Bush and Rove have not figured out is that the Republicans in America do not trust them and will be happy when they are gone. Bush's legacy is already set and it puts him right there with Jimmy Carter as the worst modern President. Anything short of sending the immigrants back is illegal and amnesty. This bill will not bring new voters to the Republican Party. It will only help tear it apart.

RR

ANN, is your community NOW 1/3 Mexican
in 3 years?? 3,500 of them in a city of 10,500, housing values plummeting??? If it isn't then I don't think you have a right to criticize me.
1/3 of my Grandchildrens home town, and MANY here in the heartland in less than 6 years.
SORRY to burst your bubble, but my Grandchildrens parents aren't RICH conservatives.
It used to be here that you could make a decent wage, BUT the largest employer moved to Mexico, when they got to Mexico, the Mexicans moved to where the factory came from??? NOW they are working in the factories, want to know the blue collar starting wage ANN? How about 8.50 to 9.50/hour. That's just fine with the Mexicans, they live many families to a one family dwelling.
SO YOU tell me, we shouldn't give a damn! That we should be "embracing the diversity" as the Mayor says, and HE is the one who said the city is now 1/3 Mexican, didn't say 1/3 of anything else. And when we go to our stores, and all we hear is Spanish, YOU think that makes us happy in Michigan, already in the toilet to the tune of 800 million, and soon to be 1.6 billion next year. AND YOU think we should be paying for those anchor babies thru Medicaid, 1/2 paid by Michigan taxpayers????
SO IF YOU DON'T HAVE THIS IN YOUR BACKYARD, HOW can you say we should just accept it??
Here's another thing, we ALREADY have these same laws on the books, laws enacted in 1986, when we gave the ONE TIME ONLY AMNESTY per that idiot Kennedy, and he said it was only 1 million, turned out to be 3 million, and was ten million or more after they got invite the whole freakin family.
SO if we do the same thing again, what do you think the consequences will be.
SO IF 1/3 OF YOUR COMMUNITY ISN'T PEOPLE FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY, DON'T YOU DARE TELL ME I'M BEING A HARD A$$.
WHO's looking out for YOUR family ANN???
YOU need to remember, EVERYBODY didn't go to college, around here there were plenty of jobs for blue collar workers, and my son is in construction, once a good paying job, NOT NOW, because we have allowed people from another country to trot their arses in and what my son was doing, and HOW HE WAS FEEDING HIS FAMILY.
WHAT about those people ANN and Robert????
My son-in-law, was in the marines, protecting our country, now his family is in jeoopardy because of the illegals, YOU think that is fair, because some rich people want a nanny, gardner, someone to mow their lawn.
We are 64 and 70 respectivily, and WE do this stuff ourself.
THEN the farmers will be whining again, NOT enough workers, well they aren't picking the fruit are they??? They are doing the jobs MY family is doing, ONLY doing it for less.
Here's an example for you.
In Colorado Springs, the this ritzy hotel brings in 200 workers a year, says they can't get anyone to work for the average wage of $10.00/hour. WHAT does average wage mean???
Are they averaging in the pro shop, golf course pro, chef, hotel manager????
Well, after I saw that post, I checked, and the cheapest room was over 250/night, double occup.
The most expensive was over 800/night double occup. ARE YOU telling me they can't afford to pay more than 10.00/hour for their maids, and other workers???? Please, it's just the farmers, and big businesses whining for cheaper labor, all the while my family is told to stick it.
AND while we are at it, WE my 70 year old husband and myself had to buy our 41 year old daughter 16 years with MS a condo so she would have a decent place to live, because SHE is DENIED the very same Medicaid that we give the those illegal aliens for their anchor babies! YOU want to tell me that this should make me just want to hug those invaders with joy???
GET REAL!

Robert
"The unskilled workers work as maids in middle class families all around the country. What are you going to do? Round them up....How would you find them anyway? ... Besides how are you going to throw all the parents of American citizens out of the country?"

Here is novel solution. Enforce the laws we have on the books now. Stop the Michael Moore routine already. You don't have to round up anybody. You don't have to break up families. You enforce the law the same way a state trooper does on the highway. It is not possible to catch every speeder, but the fact that the trooper is randomly handing out $300 tickets creates order out of chaos. On the illegals front, you randomly arrest farmers, CEOs and business owners. Stiff fines and prison time do wonders for law and order. And, because the arrests are random, you don't need tens of thousands of additional agents, just like you don't need a trooper at every exit. DETERRENCET is the key. No deportation, no overflowed prisons from massive round ups, no wall or fence.

As to your second question, yes, throw the bums out. And, they can take their children with them. If they don't want their children, we'll put them in foster care. That's what a court would do to me if I rob the bank. The judge won't say, well, since you have children, I will let you go free. He would lock me up and send the children to foster care.

Robert
You said that the only thing punishable for coming across the border is "deportation", but what about their working.
After all there is only one of 3 ways they can work!
1. Using fake documents.
2. Using stolen ID's
3. Working under the table.

WHOS's to know what they owe in back taxes???
Where's the criteria for what they have earned?
Are they re-paying US legal citizens for the bearing the costs of their anchor babies, at around $10,000.00/child?

The thing I see wrong with this is: After we grant them their "amnesty", they then get to invite their family members here, Mother, Dad, Brother, Sister, wife, children, aunts, uncles, and cousins. There won't be a soul left in Mexico, but the tycoons who exploit their citizens. THAT's what's wrong with another amnesty! WE don't EVEN know how many are here, that's the sad part.

I didn't see anything about back taxes, only the $5,000.00 fine, (that they are complaining about)

IF they had built more than 2 miles of the 700 plus miles of fence that congress passed, I MIGHT feel a little more comfortable with this, but sorry, they pass laws, that is ALL THEY DO IS PASS THEM, THEY DON'T ENFORCE THEM. THAT'S THE PROBLEM!!! We don't believe ANY of the liars.

Robert
"As this bill stands a fee and paying back taxes would replace deportment. What do you not like about that?"

What I don't like about that? First, nobody can convince me that any illegal will come forward and pay anything. The other part of the bill requires that they go home and come back legally. Yeah, right. You cannot convince me any illegal will go home voluntarily when they are doing just fine where they are now. No one will deport them. Yourself said it is not possible to deport them.

This bill is Simpson-Mazzoli II, promising new enforcement and orderly immigration in exchange for amnesty. We can argue til the cows come home, but the illegal flow will continue until serious employer penalties are levied. Since we know that will never happen, then any bill, regardless of its content, is meaningless. But, we do know from Simpson-Mazzoli that if you give amnesty, the problem is exacerbated.

VIRGINIA PATRIOT and DAN
I am going to make a long post showing the two sides of any coin. Most of this was posted very late yesterday under Phyllis S. column. You will notice the tone and theme changes as it progresses.

Scamnesty

Get your passports. Arrange for status in Australia, New Zealand or heck, just about anywhere that isn't what was once the American Republic. That shining star on a hill. Yes, you have a while to get it done, but don't dawdle too much. Get your affairs in order before the rush starts. The best of us will be welcomed in other countries, but I advise the old or less fortunate to get an early start because only the producers, degreed and financially favored will be accepted any where that isn't a hell hole after the rush starts.
Remember that sucking sound. Ross had the right idea, but the wrong direction and content. But, it's like the stock market, only some people know when to sell and when to buy.

The U.S.A. has been sold out or shortly will be so I advise the savvy to take notice. The duds will stick it out against all hope and finally disappear into the cesspool being created before our very eyes.

You know, even if this dog ‘on bill is defeated, it will maybe not even slow down what is happening; not stop it. That takes enforcement action, at the door of the employers.

The only other thing that could stop and even reverse it would be some very serious actions by the citizenry. And I mean reasonably coordinated actions.

Don't use credit cards, buy only used cars, repair the old ones, it won’t be for long, the message gets out quickly, cut your cable TV service, cancel all of your insurance, forget to pay your taxes locally and nationally (they say they can't deport all the illegals, well watch them try to enforce tax payment--NOT) Fly your Flags upside down in front of every home and business, insist that anybody you do business with do the same, then come the massive marches in which we insist on new elections and new candidates. This or something like it is the only thing that will get their complete and undivided attention.

Don't forget your passports, just in case.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scamnesty continued
The rich have already done everything I have outlined as far as preparing for a move out. They bank overseas, i.e., Panama et al., they have all, or nearly all, bought important properties in at least one other country. They are totally untied, in any way important to them, from the United States, and they can take their time as they have already done what I described above and much MORE.

Many of them have 2nd and 3rd citizenships located at a reasonable distance from the U.S.
Do you have any questions??
Do you understand why so many of them are selling out the country??
It's called short term, but very BIG PROFITS that they then convert to Euros or other necessarily convenient currencies and valuables.

Book about it??
There should be some serious looking at/into what I am describing, but they might disappear the author
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Them and us

THE Latin people?? As a matter of fact I like a lot of them. I don’t mind their coming to my house in reasonable numbers so that they can integrate, become a part of the country. It’s just the numbers. The INVASION.

People like Kennedy who can and do live anywhere they wish, money buys that, are very serious about the sellout. It means the biggest boondoggle profits for almost everyone involved that the world has ever seen. Mel Martinez is a born Cuban. But, someone should take a look at where he will hang his hat when the "water gets too hot" (as in boiling frogs). The Kennedy’s are from Ireland, but the Green Isle today is greener than ever. So is the Mediterranean as sweet as ever and, well you name it. He, I won't call him a senator, doesn't drink all that whisky because he's Irish, it's got more to do with his being catholic and worrying about going to HHLL for all of his misdeeds and stealing from us.

Forget the politicians doing politics; they are only the means to make the rich, RICHER. We always talked about the lawyers in congress making laws for the lawyers. Well it's gone way past that. Follow the MONEY.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

onceamarine writes Sunday, May, 27, 2007 12:14 AM

Got your Attention Yet

Earlier today I suggested you find or order up your Passport. Immediate response was, No, don't run. Well I also suggested WE, a whole lot of us, coordinating our thoughtful actions, could do a few other things, IE., cut loose from insurance, cut loose from credit cards or any thing remotely like it, buy used cars and trucks and repair what you have, and most of all forget to pay local and national taxes.
They can’t catch and punish illegals, no there are too many, well do you think they can go after a few millions who "forgot" their taxes - NOT. Also, suggested flying the American Flag upside down at every house in every neighborhood and businesses, and not doing business with anyone who isn't doing same.

Someone else suggested polluting with signs and our bodies (picketing) Armed Forces recruitment offices until they say ENOUGH. That's a pretty good additional item, and I am sure WE can think of a number of other legal and extra legal things to do. If this goes through the senate, then will be the time to start being very aggressive.

Let's put it together so that any dummy can understand and get onboard.

Anybody who knows me knows that I am not down on Latino people. I just think too much of the United States of
America, to not defend her, when she is going down. And these actions proposed by the senate will take her down just like the Titanic, slowly but surely.
------------------------------------------------

I think my 350 years of heritage and a little bit of Native American put me in a unique position to view this, and frankly, I also completely accept the help of someone who just took the oath of allegiance a week ago, a year ago or 100 years ago.. Let's fight this madman’s proposal.

Semper Fi "People"
-----------------------------------------------
Dan wrote late in yesterdays column by Phyllis Sunday, May, 27, 2007 6:23 AM

A new Contract with America

Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. The way to deal with this critical turning point in our nations history is not to turn away from the republican party, but to purge it. What we need now is a new “Contract with America” based on Newt Gingrichs original. It brought in a whole new class of freshman Congressmen committed
to a specific agenda, when the elites were trying to sell us out. Sound familiar? Some suggestions to start with.
#1 The expulsion, not accommodation of every last illegal alien. This does not include simply declaring them legal. This will result more from attrition as laws are enforced than from outright deportation.
#2 The commitment to sealing our borders with the military.
#3 The commitment to ruthlessly enforcing workplace and renting to illegals laws.
#4 Putting a stop to all Government benefits, services, and aid to illegals.
#5 A radical restructuring of our relationship with Mexico. Acknowledging the principles that we owe Mexico absolutely nothing. That no Mexican interest or government will be allowed any say in American policy. That they need us vastly more than we need them. That we will not tolerate any attempt to export their problems here. There are nations that American business is restricted from doing business with, and being on our border does not exempt Mexico. Cuba is not much further away. If this creates a “Cold War” situation, fine. This has been the case through much of our history anyway. This may damage our economy but the current policy of pandering will destroy it.
#6 The in depth investigation of the corruption and blatantly anti law enforcement activities of U.S. officials on the border. The Ramos/Campeon case. The catering to Mexican gangsters. Make it a national priority to expose and bring to justice those responsible, no matter how high the trail leads. The Total Commitment to the principle that we will not tolerate the infection of our country with Mexico’s culture of corruption.
#7 The classification of La Raza and other radical pro illegal advocacy groups as terrorist/criminal organizations, like Hamas or Al Queda. This may be difficult to sell the American people on at first, but when they see the tide turning against them it is hard to believe that they will not move beyond mere hateful rhetoric.
One has only to look to Lebanon today to see the future of America if these groups continue to grow in power.
It is not impossible to save our country. The open border crowd would have us believe that their vision is an inescapable force of history, but if all Americans stand together we can be unbeatable.
----------------------------------------------
onceamarine writes:
Dan
Suggestions 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6 are excellent and very correct. I like your thinking.

I would not go to 5 or 7.

Five (5) is pretty much out of line and unnecessary.
Seven (7) could only be the case if La Raza gets that far out of line. Don't jump the gun. Don't radicalize your original principles. Just wait on that one. They don’t have as much support as you think, and there are plenty of good American Latino blooded people in the U.S. who will sell La Raza out real quick. They are good patriots and don’t like those things either.

I like your general frame of mind but don't go to a "them or us mentality". Mexico is not or enemy. We are our enemy as you show in number SIX (6).

Mexico has a problem internally. It is called many things, but rests on "slow development politically and socially".

We only need defend ourselves from the "need" of their poor to find work, and our corporate greed to “short change” the American public in order to make more cash for the coffers. The illegals are good workers for about ONE generation. The next generation will be indistinguishable from what WE have or possibly worse.

We put our house in order starting at the border. We stop the INVASION, and get back to normal legalized immigration practices.

This whole problem starts at the border, but rests with corporate America. They have the final solution.
It’s called lock them up, the Corporation chiefs, until we/they understand, you don’t hire illegals. Believe you me only ONE or TWO will have to go to jail for all the rest to immediately discover they have some illegals working. They know who they are. As has been said here before, Mexico has laws they enforce about working there without permission.

Not that we don’t have some American citizens residing in Mexico who are in fact there “illegally”. However, there are about 500,000 U.S. citizens who are permanent or part time legal residents there. So stay away for that and other reasons from number FIVE (5). Otherwise you are right on track. And you are right about not abandoning the Republican party; just it’s “Offenders”. They gotta go, and by god will go.
Enough talk; time for ACTIONS. Semper Fi

Republican elites in DC
I was invited to the President's Dinner, which is June 13. After I heard that the Republicans in the Senate had caved and allowed our worst Senator, Ted Kennedy, to have his way with the amnesty bill, I called the RSVP number to let them know I would not be coming and why.

I got a lecture from a Party operative about how "we" Republicans must understand the importance of supporting the party even though we don't always agree on everything.

So there you have it, in case you're interested. The "Party" expects you to stay in line and do what you're told. The elites in DC think they are "The Party" and we are their subjects, their servants. The concepts of government "by the people" and being a "public servant" have never occurred to these princes.

I told them to take me off their mailing lists. It's bad enough that they expect me to bend over while they give me the shaft without expecting me to pay them for the privilege.

Ironically, two days later I received a "Final Notice" from the RNC that they will cancel my status as a "Sustaining Member" if I don't send them my dues right away. That will really break my heart (he said sardonically).


An Answer to Buck and Dan
Buck writes: Sunday, May, 27, 2007 12:02 PM
onceamarine
I believe #5 to be a correct course of action. The Mexican military is escorting the drug runners INTO the United States. Then they are firing at the Border Patrol with heavy caliber automatic weapons. This, alone, should be reason to reevaluate our present relationship with Mexico. Beyond this, Mexico shows us NO alliance in the UN, Mexico continually tries to tell us how to handle our internal affairs, Mexico has a policy of refusing extradition of Mexican citizens who have violated US law. Mexico nationalized American petrolium holdings. In other words, Mexico is no more aligned with the United States than is Venezula, only is not as vociferous.

onceamarine writes: Sunday, May, 27, 2007 1:37 PM
Buck
You are off track and have incorrect reports as to Mexico. You are reading into this factors which do not exist.

1. Mexico since the year 2001 has extradited numerous criminals to the US from the drug mafia and some for murder done in the U.S. Only this year under the new president they have sent more than a dozen to the U.S. justice system.

2. Their Army does not fire on us nor protect the criminals.. In fact, the Mexican Army is presently deployed all over the country seeking out the mafia, and more people have been killed in recent months than our soldiers in Iraq during the same period; in excess of 1000. People, bad criminals, dressed like Army or other law enforcement people do what you said. Fire upon us. H--, we don't shoot back do we. Our hands have been tied by Washington IE., look who we put in jail for shooting at the bad guys.

3. The oil expropriation was in the 1930's, and yes there is a very big difference between the governments of Mexico and that shame of a dictator, Chavez, in Venezuela.

I don't fault you for your observations, they are simply way out from REALITY.

Not as long as Bush is President
This President has shown his loyalties are not to the American citizens on this issue. He has been promising Mexico and Latin America an amnesty and open borders. If Bush had secured the border on September 12, 2001 and actually enforced employer sanctions vigorously and consistently since then, we'd be talking about a much smaller problem and many more would be willing to listen to some kind of compromise. It is the complete lack of enforcement that has doubled this problem in the last six years that exposes the deceitful attempt at forcing us into another amnesty by flooding the country with illegal aliens. The cynical way we are told we will not get border security or enforcement until we give them amnesty and a guestworker program is sickening. We won't be fooled again. We remember 1986. No amnesty/regularization/guestworker until we see ACTUAL fences and ACTUAL enforcement. Let's try that for a few years, then we'll talk.

Robert
I love the way you always use semantics to stump your opponent. That's why I regularly compare you with the sleezy Michael Moore. The Scooter Libby line is getting old, too. You knew I wasn't saying that troopers randomly pick out individual drivers without probable cause. My point was they can't be at all places at all times, so they pick the spots to stake out in high traffic areas to keep the drivers guessing. Once in awhile, they will stake out remote areas, again, to keep the drivers guessing. It is a very effective deterrence. In immigration enforcement, you use the same approach. You find out who are hiring large numbers of illegals, hit them hard in the pocketbooks. Once in awhile, you raid smaller businesses, just to keep everyone honest It is terribly effective and requires little resources. Surely, a superior law-enforcement mind like yours can see that.

Your mocking of my family values because I believe the illegals should be sent home with their children, again, is very clever. Family values do not apply when one breaks the law. As I said, if I rob the bank, no judge will set me free because the children need their daddy. I should have thought of that before I rob the bank.

To Dan
"Politics is the art of the possible." Could you please explain to us how you will expel 12 million people in a way that a) will not outrage the American public b) will carry a manageable cost c) will not further damage our international image?

I have read on townhall the suggestion that authorities should seize undocumented immigrants as they arrive at a hospital emergency room. Can you imagine the publicity as women in labor and men having heart attacks and people bleeding from gunshot are loaded into (vans, trucks, paddy wagons) and hauled away? A few Americans would cheer, but must Americans would be horrified and the rest of the world would be appalled. No people will support a law that runs counter to the social values of that people.

I have also read the suggestion (same poster, I think) who said that the children of undocumented immigrants arriving at school should be taken into custody and send southward on buses. Seems to me that is kidnapping. No reasonable adult is going to condone snatching children under such circumstances.

Yet another post suggests surrounding the entire United States with a motion-sensitive field armed with machine guns so that anyone attempting to cross the field will be immediately shot dead. Corpses are to be loaded into trucks and dumped on the other side of the Mexican border.

Well, if you've been reading townhall, you probably have seen the same posts I have. And so far I haven't seen a single plan for expelling 12 million people in a reasonable and humane manner, not to mention an affordable manner. If you have one, do share it with us all.

Semper Fi onceamarine
I saw your posts. I will not bail out. I will stand and fight. I still think there are enough right-minded Americans of both parties to defeat this scamnesty. I predict it will pass the Senate, but fail in the House. It may take a couple of elections to purge the GOP or cause it to go the way of the Whigs. We may not have that much time. I'm hoping to get Duncan Hunter elected as the next Republican President. The GOP hierarchy and money do want want that. They want more cheap labor. If the '08 election comes down to 2 New York liberals (Rudy vs Hillary), a third party candidate like Duncan Hunter of Tom Tancredo could win. I don't know if either would consider an independent run.

By the way, I sent that top post as an E-mail to Sen. Warner and Sen. Webb so they could not be mistaken how pi$$ed off I am over the malfeascence of Congress and the President.

It is called attrition

Actively, consistently, continuously enforcing existing laws will send the message that we are serious about our laws. Changing them to accomodate the people breaking them sends the opposite message. And not just to those already here. Millions are waiting to see which tack we take. Amnesty will set off a stampede like we have not seen before. Enforcement will start the flow in the other direction as the jobs and benefits dry up. Those pushing for amnesty are for surrendering to the demands of the illegal aliens and their employers, abandoning the rule of law and surrendering our sovereignty. I don't care what country someone is from, they need to follow our existing path to citizenship. We need to insist on it or we will be overrun. Our republic can only function if everyone follows the rules, those that don't must be punished. If America annouces to the world "We can't stop you, so come on in", the deluge will be overwhelming. If 3,000 a day didn't get your attention, then wait until it's 10,000 a day. We cannot sustain this influx and survive as a nation. We must speak up and speak to each other about this and not let false claims of racism or bigotry be used to intimidate us into silent assent. America is not Congress' to give away. America belongs to we the people. Speak to your neighbors, speak to your coworkers, but please speak up to your Congressmen and Senators. It's O.K. for us to enforce our laws, no really, it is.
We should not change the laws to suit those breaking them.

wiseone
Yeah, the elites in both partis are clueless about the grassroots Tsunami that is taking place. The immigration issue has really galvanized the conservatives (I don't even call them the Republican base anymore). I haven't seen this much energy and involvement from conservatives since 1994. Actually, 1994 is pale in comparison to this erruption. People in both parties are uniting against the elites on this issues. In a sense, there is bipartisanship in DC, as well as the grassroots. McCain and Kennedy are hugging and kissing. Ordinary working Americans, both Democrats and Republicans, are jointing to fight the elites. The people will be victorious at the end.

Bill and Rove
From a purely political perspective, this bill will not get us any Hispanic votes. We have already lost whatever Hispanic votes we are going to lose.

Further, in 2006 we were doing reasonably well until the Foley scandal broke. Supposedly Rove had a hand in preventing Republicans from enticing Foley out of government in 2005. In addition, supposedly Rove was behind the refusal to have Hastert resign.

If there had been no Foley scandal or if Hastert had resigned and/or if Rumsfield had stepped down before the 2006 elections we would have lost far fewer house seats and held the senate.

The scandal coupled with a clear signal that the administration was not willing to make any adjustments, to even consider any change of course whatever, is the primary reason we lost so many seats in 2006.

This administration drove the Party over the cliff needlessly. It is doing it again on immigration. The Bush legacy will not be this immigration bill (it will never get enforced). It will be a badly broken Republican Party.

I would call it stupidity. Where is the gain in this bill for the Republican Party?

It does not stop illegal immigration and it loses Hispanic votes anyway.

lilly
LOL, you are hilarious. Where do you read this stuff? You need to stay away from MoveOn.org.

At hospital emergency rooms, "Can you imagine the publicity as women in labor and men having heart attacks and people bleeding from gunshot are loaded into (vans, trucks, paddy wagons) and hauled away?"

You obviously have not been in an emergency room in the last ten year. I have. It is packed full of illegal aliens seeking routine medical attention such as flu shots. They use the emergency room as their family doctor, taking valuable resources for real emergencies.

"Another post suggests surrounding the entire United States with a motion-sensitive field armed with machine guns so that anyone attempting to cross the field will be immediately shot dead. Corpses are to be loaded into trucks and dumped on the other side of the Mexican border."

HaHa! This is too funny. Machine guns and corpses? Apparently, you haven't heard that Bush ordered our National Guards to run if under attack. They cannot shoot back. And, there is hell to pay if a border patrol agent ever discharges his gun.

Stop with the Edith Bunker impersonation already!!

This confirms
what pundits have been telling us for years: Congress does not listen to the citizenry. Power is all they crave, and to keep it they will buy every vote they can, with the Great Society, Medicare Drug plans, amnesty for illegals and on and on. Those of you who insist that the laws on the books be enforced are right, but whose going to make our govt (not listening) do it? New leadership? We have had that and we are closer to a mess that ever. Will Fred Thompson, Hillary Clinton, Obama do it? Help! We need and answer.

Lilly bless your little Soul
You pick the winners. The ones nobody would possibly respect or propose. Just because some fellow with a small education and a little less up front than most, once said it.

Yea, occasionally someone has said those things. They do not represent our mainstream in any way shape or form, and you know it.

You have obviously read and have thrown out the truth, because you can't defend against it, the true and obvious, to any moron's reasoning, which has been expounded upon over and over.

You guard the border against those trying to come in. But mostly you lockup or very heavily fine the owners of businesses who give employment to illegals. They very soon, GO HOME.

Ya see. You don't have to manhandle pregnant women nor children nor there fathers. They simply go home. Wouldn't you?? Please do!!

Now I know you understand reality, all of this, so please take your weak minded statements and questions somewhere else while the guys and gals of this nation who really (actually) love and defend it get on with business. And don't tell you were a woman Marine or a nurse in wartime because you weren't. GO, before you realize this is the last time anybody is going to speak at you.

lilly
"So far I haven't seen a single plan for expelling 12 million people in a reasonable and humane manner, not to mention an affordable manner. If you have one, do share it with us all."

This plan has been offered a thousand times on Townhall. The illegal aliens say they came here to work, right? The government should enforce our current immigration laws by penalizing employers who hire them. Once the jobs dry up, the illegals will go home on their own to seek work in their own country. That sounds pretty reasonable and humane. If I go to Mexico without the proper papers, the Mexican government will either jail me or send me home. We are much more humane. We let them go home on their own accord. No jail time. We even buy them a one-way bus ticket. Will the Mexican government do that?

Duncan Hunter Where are you? We need you
I am with Patriot. We have to have a DUNCAN HUNTER, and I am guessing there is only one. Those of you who have been playing patty cake with Paul or others, realize we all have to get behind the best candidate bar none. And I also endorse Hunter.

I don't think there is anyone remotely like him, maybe good, but not good enough. Hunter has all the qualities you could possibly ask for.

He's cool under fire. As in the interview process or being questioned about his stance on issues.

Former chairman of the armed forces committee with 20 years in the house as a real Republican, a la Ronald Reagan. Just what the demos and neocons don't want.

A former Marine(I always capitalize that word), with significant active military experience, he is not going to throw our sons and grandsons into some shindig without knowing very well how to do it.

His stance on illegal immigration is well known.
He's responsible for the first fence built just below San Diego where he is from. There are lots of Latino votes there, and he always came up with solid support.

Excuse my ending sentences with prepositions. It's just how I talk. Sort of down to earth.

Sounds like my kind of man. And yours?
I believe he is the kind of man we can all get behind. We just need him to front and center.
Gung Ho..

Immigraton deal
Levi asked is the rational in all this mess? Can we get to the bottom of this? Let's start from the beginning:
1. There are estimated 12 million people, mostly Mexicans, in our country illegally, in other words, not officially invited by American people. They simply crossed the border at night.
2. American people became concerned, more and more, that our Government does not care about this growing population and maybe even quietly supports this trend. The illegal aliens, guided by the pro-amnesty movement that includes Nationalist and Racist organizations, Immigration lawyers who stand to make fortunes in the process and bleeding heart liberals, the same liberals that visit any new Socialist State with the reverence attributed only by devoted Muslims visiting the Holy Land.
3. Aided by the above groups and the profit smelling big businesses (meat packing, hotels, construction, etc.) illegal immigrants settle down in this country and start feeling pretty comfortable. They have children -- new American citizens.
4. But the negative effects of illegal immigration also became obvious: criminals crossing the border joining Hispanic gangs; creation of Hispanic ghettoes while this nation makes an effort to eradicate black ghettoes; overcrowding of schools and huge Government expenses on welfare and other social services (Please see The Heritage Foundation analyses), taking jobs from new legal immigrants, etc.
5. But the most damaging effect on American public had the fact of illegal activity being approved and even promoted by the Government, same Government that was elected to preserve American Constitution, American values and the safety and prosperity of American people. Here begins the rift between the people and the Government.
6. This rift leads to the mistrust of people toward the Government, making their election promises hollow, not trustworthy. It bothers a lot of decent people who have been rased in a belief that although certain political manipulations, positioning, demagoguery, aggrandizing, etc. are always present in politics like in life in general -- the healthy foundation built by this nation founding fathers is sacred and imbedded in stone. This foundation is something that we should always consult and compare our intentions and our actions with. Abandoning our fundamental principles will have a damaging effect on people and especially on our growing children. When I grew up in the Soviet Union and had been appropriately brain washed starting at the age of three I truly believed that ours is the best country in the world, our democracy is the best in the world, our peaceful international policy is what saves the nation from another World War. Eventually, Soviet citizens became cynical, thinking: Why should I do anything good for my country when Soviet government lies just about everything. When lies and deceit reached a threshold, the country collapsed (one cannot eat imaginary bread from news broadcasts).
7. So the problem with this "Comprehensive" immigration deal is that if our Government was really interested in effectively solving this problem, it would have held a National Referendum on the best approach to it, listen to ordinary people as well as professionals in many fields of expertise: economy, social services, demographics, urban development, law, etc. It will be probably possible to have a National Referendum in November 2008. But the mere fact that legislators and the President preferred to make a deal behind closed doors, speed it up without debate, concerns every decent citizen. Something is fishy, isn't it?
8. The smooth cooperation between two Parties is also highly suspicious. Why on this issue only? Why a sworn critic of conservative philosophy is willing to work behind closed doors with the opposition? Again, something wrong with this picture.
9. What's wrong with this picture is the Government refusal to address the issue honestly, as expected in an open society. Not doing that clearly shows that our elected officials do not trust their constituency; or think that people are not sophisticated enough to understand and comprehend high Imperial considerations! That's what makes all of us very angry and very sad. United States, as we check lately, is not an empire, nor is it an authoritarian state. The cover-up, therefore, must be explained as a mistrust of the Government toward the masses. The role of the latter is just to accept the will from the top as their command and march toward the shining future. Don't forget to pay your dues, party members. And emergency contribution to Party purse, because?...because?... because Ted Kennedy is plotting against us, the Republicans!
10. But suppose that this new deal was cooked with good intentions. Let's take a look at it. Except provisions that give Illegal aliens immediate legal status (24 hours for the background check, not a minute more!. What an efficiency, never previously seen in the last 100 years. Securing the borders takes 20 years and job hasn't even started but 24 hours? Exceptional, what can I say). Then illegal aliens will apply for a green card and then a citizenship. What a deal! As for the American people -- there's nothing good, only the consequences:
a. Loss of geographic areas now populated by Mexicans;
b. Loss of 2.5 trillion in extra expenses to support social services for border crossers;
c. Election of radical Hispanic leaders supported by La Raza and as a result
d. Complete surrender of Southern states to Mexico;
e. Redistribution of scarce national resources toward Spanish speaking population;
f. Nationalization of industry, agriculture, finances, banks, media, transportation by new Revolutionary government assisted by Cuban and Venezuelan governments;
g. Strong support of the Revolutionary government of militant Islam in occupied Europe and destruction of former US friendly regimes.
h. Beginning of the new Dark Ages, possibly forever.
11. US government cannot be so stupid as not to understand the consequences, or at least immediate negative results of such a reform. But it still insists it's a Good deal. So people say black -- government say white! If Republican Party risks losing thousands and thousands party members for this, it must be a very serious business. Maybe Republican Party does not need us; after all, we are troublemakers. If our leaders intent to take this country to the abyss of Socialism, then of course they need new breed of people who will march to orders. That explains everything.

Immigraton deal
Levi asked is the rational in all this mess? Can we get to the bottom of this? Let's start from the beginning:
1. There are estimated 12 million people, mostly Mexicans, in our country illegally, in other words, not officially invited by American people. They simply crossed the border at night.
2. American people became concerned, more and more, that our Government does not care about this growing population and maybe even quietly supports this trend. The illegal aliens, guided by the pro-amnesty movement that includes Nationalist and Racist organizations, Immigration lawyers who stand to make fortunes in the process and bleeding heart liberals, the same liberals that visit any new Socialist State with the reverence attributed only by devoted Muslims visiting the Holy Land.
3. Aided by the above groups and the profit smelling big businesses (meat packing, hotels, construction, etc.) illegal immigrants settle down in this country and start feeling pretty comfortable. They have children -- new American citizens.
4. But the negative effects of illegal immigration also became obvious: criminals crossing the border joining Hispanic gangs; creation of Hispanic ghettoes while this nation makes an effort to eradicate black ghettoes; overcrowding of schools and huge Government expenses on welfare and other social services (Please see The Heritage Foundation analyses), taking jobs from new legal immigrants, etc.
5. But the most damaging effect on American public had the fact of illegal activity being approved and even promoted by the Government, same Government that was elected to preserve American Constitution, American values and the safety and prosperity of American people. Here begins the rift between the people and the Government.
6. This rift leads to the mistrust of people toward the Government, making their election promises hollow, not trustworthy. It bothers a lot of decent people who have been rased in a belief that although certain political manipulations, positioning, demagoguery, aggrandizing, etc. are always present in politics like in life in general -- the healthy foundation built by this nation founding fathers is sacred and imbedded in stone. This foundation is something that we should always consult and compare our intentions and our actions with. Abandoning our fundamental principles will have a damaging effect on people and especially on our growing children. When I grew up in the Soviet Union and had been appropriately brain washed starting at the age of three I truly believed that ours is the best country in the world, our democracy is the best in the world, our peaceful international policy is what saves the nation from another World War. Eventually, Soviet citizens became cynical, thinking: Why should I do anything good for my country when Soviet government lies just about everything. When lies and deceit reached a threshold, the country collapsed (one cannot eat imaginary bread from news broadcasts).
7. So the problem with this "Comprehensive" immigration deal is that if our Government was really interested in effectively solving this problem, it would have held a National Referendum on the best approach to it, listen to ordinary people as well as professionals in many fields of expertise: economy, social services, demographics, urban development, law, etc. It will be probably possible to have a National Referendum in November 2008. But the mere fact that legislators and the President preferred to make a deal behind closed doors, speed it up without debate, concerns every decent citizen. Something is fishy, isn't it?
8. The smooth cooperation between two Parties is also highly suspicious. Why on this issue only? Why a sworn critic of conservative philosophy is willing to work behind closed doors with the opposition? Again, something wrong with this picture.
9. What's wrong with this picture is the Government refusal to address the issue honestly, as expected in an open society. Not doing that clearly shows that our elected officials do not trust their constituency; or think that people are not sophisticated enough to understand and comprehend high Imperial considerations! That's what makes all of us very angry and very sad. United States, as we check lately, is not an empire, nor is it an authoritarian state. The cover-up, therefore, must be explained as a mistrust of the Government toward the masses. The role of the latter is just to accept the will from the top as their command and march toward the shining future. Don't forget to pay your dues, party members. And emergency contribution to Party purse, because?...because?... because Ted Kennedy is plotting against us, the Republicans!
10. But suppose that this new deal was cooked with good intentions. Let's take a look at it. Except provisions that give Illegal aliens immediate legal status (24 hours for the background check, not a minute more!. What an efficiency, never previously seen in the last 100 years. Securing the borders takes 20 years and job hasn't even started but 24 hours? Exceptional, what can I say). Then illegal aliens will apply for a green card and then a citizenship. What a deal! As for the American people -- there's nothing good, only the consequences:
a. Loss of geographic areas now populated by Mexicans;
b. Loss of 2.5 trillion in extra expenses to support social services for border crossers;
c. Election of radical Hispanic leaders supported by La Raza and as a result
d. Complete surrender of Southern states to Mexico;
e. Redistribution of scarce national resources toward Spanish speaking population;
f. Nationalization of industry, agriculture, finances, banks, media, transportation by new Revolutionary government assisted by Cuban and Venezuelan governments;
g. Strong support of the Revolutionary government of militant Islam in occupied Europe and destruction of former US friendly regimes.
h. Beginning of the new Dark Ages, possibly forever.
11. US government cannot be so stupid as not to understand the consequences, or at least immediate negative results of such a reform. But it still insists it's a Good deal. So people say black -- government say white! If Republican Party risks losing thousands and thousands party members for this, it must be a very serious business. Maybe Republican Party does not need us; after all, we are troublemakers. If our leaders intent to take this country to the abyss of Socialism, then of course they need new breed of people who will march to orders. That explains everything.

lilly
One plan to humanely deport 12-15 million people has been put forth by Thomas Sowell.

Sowell points out that if illegals were to be remanded to custody (that means put in the local jail) for 30 days (1st time), 60 days (2nd time), and so on the illegal resident population would "self-deport".

If they were made to serve time each time they were caught inside our borders, and not be allowed to earn money while in jail, it would not be long before they would see there is no profit in being here. Most of those who are here illegally would return to their native countries on there own and the word would pass that the free ride in the US has ended.

This bill does nothing to end the free ride. It rewards it instead. It is an incentive for even more illegal immigration in the future. It is a sellout and a lie.

Robert
"It is harder then you "think" to go after employeers."

The IRS do random audits all the time. I just got audited last year. In my line of work, government agents come audit the company books, design documents, etc to check for compliance regularly. It is perfectly legal. As a professional, government agents have come to my employer and gain access to my files to check my credentials. The EPA, FDA, IRS, OSHA, they all make surprise inspections all the time. The Bureau of Equal Employment comes checking to make sure we have the proper mix of white men, women and minorities. For immigration, it is no different. So, don't tell me it is "too hard" for the government to make surprise inspections to access employer hiring files for compliance. I side with lbierals on this one. There is nothing the government cannot do.

Robert
You don't know what an anchor baby is? Or you are playing an ignoramus?
The constitution doesn't address it, because it is the illegal aliens way of having a foot here, you know so they can cry and sob that WE are breaking up their families. AN Anchor.
More like an arogant arse me thinks!
AND what makes YOU think I was a big Bush supporter???
WHY would Bush be the only one who KNOWS why the fence isn't being built??? What does the Senate do, besides write bills, and then NOT enforce them.

Robert
You write very sensibly, and may understand the laws and constitution better than others, myself included.

Why is it that we can look at their books to see if they are paying taxes correctly, why can we inspect the premises to see if health codes or safety codes are being followed, why can we go looking for criminals, but we can't look for illegals??

I think if a search warrant is required we can get probable cause. If a law to extend jurisdiction is required we can make it.

Should be a lot simpler than anything remotely like they are proposing. Yes, let's do it lawfully and constitutionally, but the laws are written as and when needed.

I support your call for a very long fence, but given the choice to stay without a job or to go home, I think the illegals will mostly Go HOME.

Robert - Enforcement lies
"those are your fears. The proposed law says something else. if you want to be against the proposed law, how about being against "it" not what you think it will say?"

Are you that gullible? You are not what I call a Bush admirer, so why do you trust Bush and Gonzales to do the right thing and enforce the new law. All I need to know is AMNESTY. I don't need to know what the new law is promising. Enforcement will NEVER happen. We have 20 years of history to show that. If you trust Bush, then why not do the enforcement first and then talk amnesty later. Because once amnesty is granted, the enforcement part will be ignored. We have 20 years of history to show that.

mimimary
If you have been reading the trash Robert writes the last month or so, you would know that he uses the same lines over and over again. The Bush supporter thing is just one of them. If you argue a point with him, he'll change the subject by painting you as a non-objective Bush Kool-Aid supporter. He has done that with everyone. I have never voted for Bush, but that doesn't stop Robert from using that line on me either. He also like to remind you that he is highly qualified in the area of military and law enforcement.

Winston 829
I had noticed in previous reports that you are of Russian origin. It's the use of(lack of) the word THE. You confirmed it in this last post 6:11pm. Thank you. Your use of all other vocabulary is excellent. You must have a true interest in the proper use of English

I will not hold anything against you. You are very welcome here from my point of view.

I think your explanations, reasonings and corollaries are pretty good. You, of course, see things a little differently than most of us. But, I have said to foreign friends in other countries that it gives a unique perspective to a person of a different and a wide, view point. I can say this because I am bilingual and have spent considerable time in other countries.

I accept your perspective, and can only add that I believe I respect you for the same.

Keep with us. We need every ones input to come to consensus. It will soon be time for ACTION if this is to be stopped. Right now, ACTION is contacting "politely but firmly" every politician you can reach, as many times as possible, and participating in any organized marches or actions that are correctly brought to our attention.

I agree with Virginia patriot that it will probably be stopped in the House. I call and E-Mail all of my congressmen except Martinez in whom I now have No confidence. He will be leaving the senate soon so I hope he has gotten as many goodies as possible. He's soon outah here. All democrats, there are some good ones, should be contacted by all who here the call to arms.

Robert
Oh, yes, whoever the new president will be in 2008 will do what no other president has done in my lifetime. We can rest assured that Hillary, Obama or Edwards will hit the greedy employers hard. Of course, we can't forget the border hawks Giuliani, Romney and McCain. I am so glad that Bush and Gonzales will leave office in 18 months, and the new administration will usher in a new era of tough immigration enforcement. Get real!!

Robert
"look at someone's books" you need some probably cause of law violation or an at random audit...and that is for taxes for which their is an amendment to The Constitution."

That is BS, and you know it. A business is subject to audits and have their books opened to inspection by government agencies anytime. I have worked for pharmaceutical companies. There, the FDA can come in anytime and look at the books to insure that the proper proceduures are followed and to confirm the certifications of the employees. No law violations are necessary to trigger such an inspection by a federal regulating agency. These agencies can inspect the books for the aspects of the business for which the agencies are responsible. The EPA can come into any plant and inspect the proper documentation for emission levels. Equal Employment can inspect the employment files for compliance with minority hiring. I can go on, but the INS is no different. They are responsible for the status and whereabouts of non-citizens. Every place of employment requires a resident verification on the first day. The form states all information is subjected to verification by the INS. They have every legal right to look at the personel records of a business for federal compliance.

A solution!
We advertise in Spanish and offer free rides to France in American Troop Transport ships!
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/016610.php

Oceanmarine
Thank you Sir. I am from the former Soviet Union, Russian speaking but not Russian by origin. My generation was lucky: we were born in War time or immediately after, in very difficult but not fatal time in the Soviet History. Men born in yearly 1920s were all slaughtered at Moscow, Minsk, Kiev, Stalingrad, etc. My father was in the army for a year, got his toes frost bitten and partially amputated; later worked in the military workshop.
The Soviet system, built by idealists and revolutionary fanatics, survived only a few years before it has been transformed in a highly centralized bureaucratic, static structure that eventually stopped working. Any initiative by people have been looked at by the government with suspicion, every enterprise reported fictitious index of grows and innovation. Government statistics forgot to mention airplanes crushes, infectious diseases, nuclear leaks, etc. It was argued by the government experts that every bad news from our country gives food for the capitalist propaganda.
All this is known; what bothers me is that a similar picture emerges in this country and so many idealistic people support it: liberal press, religious organizations, liberal politicians and of course the bleeding heart liberals. I understand them. What I cannot comprehend is what motivates Republican Senators to call fellow Republicans, people who deeply worried about the future of this country, "racists" and "bigots" -- old meaningless cliches that clearly need a face lift. I always knew that politicians are spineless people but this is truly disgusting!
John Stossel offers to make prostitution legal. John, look at the Republican Senators, they are all legal!
I also sent many emails and made telephone calls to nowhere, Oceanmarine. They have made up their minds. It's like talking to deaf men. Should hope for the better but are not holding my breath. Good Holiday to you and all good people!

BOLT OF LIGHTNING

I just had a brilliant flash. Once there are only a few Mexican citizens left in the country, it shouldn't be too difficult to take it over.

I understand the country has a little oil we probably could use. And it would still be a vacation paradise. Many parts of the U.S. are known to be vacation destinations; Mexico would simply be another state with numerous vacation spots.

It really looks as though amnesty is going to be rammed down our throats. Therefore, we should be able to get something in return, to wit: Mexico.

MyOpine
What a great idea! France is showing more cojones than any of our leaders on immigration. Did I really say that? The once white-flag French are getting tough and are to be commended.

S.1348
Dear US Government, Pass this bill and risk an armed rebellion. Sincerly, We The People

fabric of our nation
The most important issue facing the country today is immigration. Granting amnesty to millions of people who crossed our border illegally, commited identity fraud, didn't pay taxes while utilizing our education and medical systems for their anchor babies is an outrage. They will even give amnesty to the 30,000 gang members in east L.A. In 20 years we will have 100 million mexicans in our country - why so many people of one nationality? These new immigrants don't want to follow the rule of law, won't be celebrating this memorial day or fourth of July. They want the gov't. and media to communicate in spanish not english and remember this - whatever bill passes now will only become more liberal as time passes. Unlike so many other important issues this one can not be reversed by the court - once they are in they will bring millions more and america will be changed for the worse forever. The agenda here is to change the fabric of our nation.


HUNTER FOR AMERICA
Duncan Hunter is the only candidate in the race who has the courage to put American citizens first. Everyone else is somewhere between outright pandering to the illegals with amnesty and vague promises of tighter border security. At CPAC he pledged to pardon our border patrol agents currently imprisoned for doing their jobs. He pledged to build the fence like they have in San Diego. It has cut crossings by over 90%. He WILL secure the border in 6 months. The President is the only one who can ensure enforcement and this one has shown he will not. We must make sure the next one will or we are toast.

Robert
Regulation versus law. It depends on what your meaning of the word "is" is.

Shall we get back to the issue of discussion? We are talking about curbing illegal immigration. You work with the tools you have. It doesn't take a lawyer or rocket scientist to know what works. OK, you need probable cause. Apparently, when the feds made their token business raids in recent months, they had probalble cause. Maybe they had employees telling the feds that the company knowingly hired illegals. If that tool worked for the feds, then they should use it more often. It doesn't take many raids to be an effective deterrence. For the raids you do undertake, you hit them hard. I mean so hard, the entire business community take notice. Heavy fines in the hundreds of thousands per offense and revocation of license for subsequent offenses. That's all you need to do. Of course, we know that won't happen, so the amnesty will just encourage more of the same. Then, that is exactly what you are betting on.

Robert
Lots of posts there, did you say anything interesting? You see, I stopped reading as soon as I got to you first piece of disinformation: "It requires a payment of a fine and back taxes among other things."

Sorry: no back taxes. That means you're either lying or uninformed, and in either case not worth my time.

Frigglesnitz
Right on baby. We take Mexico in turn for our southwest.

I have used that line for years now with the Mexican People, friendly ones, of course. A very good Mexican friend of mine who got his degree in Arizona, haven't seen in him a few years, once remarked with a friendly smile, now were getting back the southwest, not with guns but with votes.

Well I used the same line as on other occasions, yea, but we are going to take your country as soon as the last few Mexicans live the area.

Tell you what I said, we'll give you the southwest and watch it go down hill. You give us Mexico and within 30 years all the Mexicans will want back in. Simple.

frigglesnitch-ex
Believe I said "leave the area."

onceamarine & Frogglesnitz
Have you guys ever considered what would happen if all the Mexicans here in America went home and started a push for annexation?

Then we could take the jobs to Mexico and develope the industry & infrastructure and they could stay home and be Americans!

Call to Reason: a Duncan Hunter needed
Duncan Hunter Where are you?

We need you. I am with "Virginia Patriot". We have to have a DUNCAN HUNTER, and I am guessing there is only one. Those of you who have been playing patty cake with Paul or others, please understand, we all have to get behind the best candidate, bar none. I, therefore, second the nomination of the best candidate, he who can win this next presidency, DUNCAN HUNTER.

I don't think there is anyone remotely like him, they maybe good, but not good enough. Hunter has all the qualities you could possibly ask for.

He's cool under fire, as in the interview process, or being questioned about his stance on issues.

Former chairman of the armed forces committee, with 20 years in the house as a real Republican, a la Ronald Reagan. Just what the demos and neocons don't want.

A former Marine, with significant active military experience, he is not going to throw our sons and grandsons, maybe daughters, into some shindig without knowing very well how to do it and why.

His stance on illegal immigration is well known.
He's responsible for the first fence built just below San Diego where he lives. There are lots of Latino votes there, but he always comes up with very solid support from his district.
He has a real chance to get the California vote in addition to most of the country. He's a plain speaker who says exactly what you hear and think he says. Because he means what he says.

Sounds like my kind of man. And yours.
I believe he is the kind of man we can all get behind.

We just need him to front and center.
Gung Ho..Grunts.. There is an officer coming in. Hand salute..

onceamarine
Hunter is good; I agree. But, Paul is BETTER.

No defenses left
I no longer have any defenses against the liberal members of my family, who hoot with laughter at what is going to become of the republican party because of this treason.

CC
We need to get past caring about the Republican party and focus on caring about our country.

Virginia Patriot
"Duncan Hunter is the only candidate in the race who has the courage to put American citizens first. Everyone else is somewhere between outright pandering to the illegals with amnesty and vague promises of tighter border security."

Your statement is more than a little disingenuous. The ONLY? LOL. BS! and you know it. Hunter's claim to fame is the fence he built and I agree, it was a good idea. However, there is much more to solving all this crap with illegal sliens than building a fence.

After we secure our ports and borders, stop birthright citizenship, put penalties in place for corporations who hire them, and end the handouts to illegal aliens in our country, we need to address the issues in our country that allowed for this to have happened in the first place.

We need to address the managed trade agreements that Clinton and Bush have hoisted upon us under the misnomer, "free trade". They most certainly are not. We should wholesale throw these out the window, along with the World Trade Commission and establish real free trade with other countries. Guess what? We won't need any international organizations sitting above our own Congress and courts to do so.

We need to stop the effort to integrate the U.S., Canada and Mexico, including the Security and Prosperity Partnership and all its associated working groups.

We need to get out of the United Nations and throw it the hell out of our country.

We need to reinstate sound money and slowly get rid of this fiat money scam that we have going on right now. Did you know that our dollars are worth just 4 cents of what they were worth when the Federal Reserve was created? Money never disappears, it just changes hands.

Furthermore, don't you think it's about time we reinstituted that old document no one pays any attention to anymore... our Constitution? I think so. In fact, if we followed this, I doubt we would have gotten into 1/2 of these problems we are in now.

I'll stop here, but the only man who understands all of this is Ron Paul and that is why I strongly support him as President.

MyOpine
Yes, I have, many times. Probably not very practical to get unpractical people do the practical thing.

But while dreaming about some solutions I have thought the following since many years back.

Those states near the border first From the state of Sonora or even better from Baja California to the Gulf of Mexico at the state of Tamaulipas would be coddled and cajoled and by their very nature probably be willing to make a change of country. That way they get to be with us and never leave home. The entire northern belt goes, one by one or as a bunch.

The rest of Mexico would make a stink of it, and it would create a major international incident.

I personally think all states, ours included, should have the constitutional right to secede from any previous union. Just as a couple can secede (divorce) from their other half.

Their should be procedure, of course, but this I consider "basic human rights". No one has the right to force another into a continual relationship against their will. That includes states or even counties within a state.

After all the fire and brimstone had settled down, and the folks in the newly united states had a chance to get the word out, well probably more states south of the new line would start to consider seriously the same path.

Under this system you get a blending of things, but control of the development of "old Mexico".

I think it would be win - win for both of us. That's just one opinion, but I have lots of experience in Latin America including Mexico.

I know a few years back when I was visiting customers in the state of Sonora, several of them suggested to me that they would like to do just exactly what you, MyOpine, suggest. I'll stop there.

Liberty
I like Ron Paul, personally.

I lived for a number of years in the great state of Texas. Came very close to considering myself a Texan even if I was hatched through no fault of my own in Oklahoma.

There is just one big question.

Electibility ?? Who can get elected..

I say the man who can do it is one of two or three, and sadly that doesn't include Mr. Ron Paul, the honorable and very good representative from Texas.

Sovereignty
I stated above that:

I personally think all states, ours included, should have the constitutional right to secede from any previous union. Just as a couple can secede (divorce) from their other half.

This is a big one for me. I have held this belief for many years. Any true liberal, not socialist, would automatically back up this principle. The neocons and their bedfellows for one world government would have nightmares about it.

But let me tell you, it's the only thing they forgot to put in the constitution. And, probably they felt at the time that the 2nd amendment was enough to settle any future fracas. Power to the people. You know, what we are, I think, seeing now is plans to put power away from the people, and just pretend to have a democracy within a Republic.

This is something that has been practiced many times in other countries where they pretended to have freedoms, all controlled by a central bunch of, what's the right word, well you know, great leaders we are told who have all the power because they control all the information (MSM)passed out to those beer drinking idiots, home from a hard days work at the closest factory or whatever.

This bill on immigration, done under cover of darkness in small rooms and a small group of our reps, smells to high heaven.

Yes, I believe in secession, and the right to secession by all states. Do you think they would invade a country which decided to pull out of the United Nations? Well not quite the same thing, but we are getting there.

Votes or continental "integration?
I don't think this entire immigration amnesty/visa for sale deal is about getting votes for Republicans. Unless Republicans are totally clueless about how immigrants vote particularly when they remain in geographic areas concentrated in blocs of identity groups. I think this is about Poppy Bush's efforts that began with the Summit of the Americas "process." Post Cold War US policy - foreign and domestic revolved around commerce and trade. The Bush family abide by the mantra that "trade" or economics exist as a 'moral' principal. Look it up - the Ethics and Public Policy mag has done several articles on Bush family values err should I say their idea that what drives men to be peaceful and and the world to remain stable is a chicken in every pot and a GE fridge in every kitchen. There is even a section in the DHS directive - to paraphrase = NOT much must interfer with trade and commerce. I counted 8 statements by former Sec. Ridge, Sec. Rice, Chertoff, Guitierez, Gonzales and others that regurgitate the mantra - nothing must interfer with the "free movement of goods and services and people across borders." Bush's speech in Berlin, one at Waco, one in Quebec, one at West Point plus two inaugural addresses places trade and commerce as the center point of his zeitgeist - his thinking - his ideology and that of his father before him. Throw in clinton who continued Bush I policies on integration of the hemisphere at Miami in 94, and with the other "summit of the Americas" process which Bush II sent into hyperdrive in Quebec in 2001 - BEFORE 911. That "process" is back on track and it is why nothing is done about the border. Last month some general speaking on foreign policy stated that US foreign policy had been based on economics, trade and commerce since the end of the Cold War. In the thinking of the Republican establishment, the 'kinder gentler compassionate' conservatives -- aka former Rockefeller Reagan hater wing of the party - are in control. They are liberals - communitarians - who also believe BIG business and BIG government are coequals in "private public" partnerships - which by the by - Bush I set in motion with an executive order in 92.

Immigration is no longer about amnesty - open borders is about changing the entire dynamic of republican form of government to something much more bureaucratic and/or feudal - much as the EU has today. By the way - April 30th Bush II signed an agreement to "integrate" the US and the EU - was on the White House website for those who think this is ALL black helicopter stuff. The Bush people and the Clinton people - Gingrich and Alexander and most of the Rep. establishment are playing conservatives and the kool aid drinkers for fools. When America finally wakes up to what both political parties and the corporate has done to them - it will be too late.

Cornell Professor Jeremy Rabkin is one of the few defenders of the nation-state and national sovereignty among academia. He has studied the European Union and the American system. As a historian he says things our current Bush Administration need to hear, and the powers-that-be in the Iron Triangle and Beltway must hear if we are going to survive as a free, sovereign, independent nation and people.

"In the modern world, sovereignty has been closely associated with constitutional government, at least in the sense that constitutional government has only been achieved in sovereign states. And it is only in the modern practice of constitutional government that guarantees of personal liberty have been combined with political structures capable of sustaining stable democracy.

He maintains, "It is fair at least to wonder whether contemporary disdain for sovereignty does not reflect (or at least encourage) an impatience with its historic counterparts--that is, with constitutional government, with liberty and democracy. It is fair to wonder whether disdain for sovereignty does not, in fact, reflect a disgust with all the "constructions" of modern liberalism.[as in classical liberalism - not that of the 60s and the Boomers] It is fair to wonder whether it does not reflect a longing for a world in which--as in the promised wonderland of communism--there are no longer real differences, hence no longer any need for legal boundaries protecting the right to be different."

Rabkins opinion and that of a majority of Americans differs greatly from the "vision" set forth by former Presidents Bush I and Bill Clinton plus the present occupant of the White House.


Declaration of Indenpendence does mention something about "alter and abolish" a form of government when it no longer holds up its end of constitutional government bargain -- aka the social contract with the consent of the governed. I think that time may have arrived courtesy of this amnesty bill which is much much more than that.



Bushisms from various speeches:


Our long-term objective should be a world in which all countries have investment-grade credit ratings that allow them access to international capital markets and to invest in their future.


The concept of "free trade" arose as a moral principle even before it became a pillar of economics.

regional integration -- all leading to growth, opportunity, and confidence in developing countries.

Advancing Hemispheric Trade Liberalization: The Free Trade Area of the Americas

Pan America comprises a set of regional relationships that connects the nations of the Western Hemisphere in an increasingly interdependent network of commercial and cultural communities.

"our continued efforts toward a Free Trade Area of the Americas exemplify our commitment to building a legal framework that opens the way to self-sustaining and wide-ranging prosperity. The free exchange of ideas and goods brings a unique vitality to our region, and serves as a catalyst for continuing economic development at the local and national levels.

Our collective goal must be to further the partnership we share as standard bearers of a bold vision. By working together to promote democracy, free trade, economic prosperity, effective governance, and human rights, we will keep the new Pan American spirit of freedom and cooperation alive and well for generations to come."

Once upon a time in France - there was a great female military commander. She acted as a major catalyst in creation of the nation-state system. Guess what she had to say about the importance of sovereignty of her nation when it was invaded by a foreign occupier in cahoots with well placed feudal barons - some of her own countrymen. Too bad there is no such woman around today around to pronounce this message to George W., George HW, Bill and Hill, Gingrich and the majority of the US Senate of both parties and the feckless treasonous corporate government entity that sneers at patriotism towards any nation but their own economic and power interests.



. "And those among you, archers, companions-at-arms, gentlemen, and others who are before the city of Orléans, go back to your own countries, for God's sake. And if you do not do so, wait for the word of the Maid who will come visit you briefly, to your great damage. If you do not do so, I am commander of the armies, and in whatever place I shall meet your French allies, I shall make them leave it, whether they wish to or not; and if they will not obey, I shall have them all killed. I am sent from God, the King of Heaven, to chase you out of all France, body for body. And if they wish to obey, I shall have mercy on them. And have no other opinion, for you shall never hold the kingdom of France from God, the King of Heaven, the son of St. Mary; but King Charles, the true heir, will hold it; for God, the King of Heaven, wishes it so and has revealed through the Maid, and he will enter Paris with a goodly company. If you do not wish to believe this message from God through the Maid, then wherever we find you we will strike you there, and make a great uproar greater than any made in France for a thousand years, if you do not come to terms. And believe firmly that the King of Heaven will send the Maid more force than you will ever know how to achieve with all of your assaults on her and on her good men-at-arms; and in the exchange of blows we shall see who has better right from the King of Heaven.

The Big Picture
Open borders, amnesty= fast track for the
SPP(SPP.gov, NAFTA Superhighway, North American Union.

Thank God for Lou Dobbs and World Net Daily,for bringing these issues to the attention of their readers/viewers.

We must stand our ground...stop the slow invasion of our country.


No Borders....No Country


Immigration Bill/ An insult to America
In 1986 the American people were told that the amnesty bill was the last one which would be brought forward, and that our borders would be secured. In the interim, absolutely nothing was done to secure our borders or to enforce sanctions against businesses employing illegal immigrants. To believe that the federal government will now undertake to pursue such actions is an insult to our intelligence.

Before my retiremnt, I worked for a gulf coast county in Florida. We had to bear enormous costs in providing health care for illegal immigrants. Our costs for law enforcement, corrections and the court system were also similarly increased as a consequence of illegal immigration. We now are faced with previously unseen gang violence. For 10 years we leased correctional facilities to INS, now ICE, to detain illegal immigrants. From personal observation it was clear that ICE did not have the resources to manage the existing population of illegal immigrants. Yet we are lead to believe that ICE will somehow be able to manage and control am additional eight to ten million illegal immigrants in an effective manner. Not only does ICE lack the staff resources, it clearly does not have adequate detention facilities available to house illegal immigrants apprehended entering the country.

The only viable solution is to first focus upon securing our borders by providing adequate border patrol agents, ICE staff and detention facilities while at the same time enforcing sanctions against businesses which employ illegal aliens. I would suspicion that by doing so, the issues of a guest worker program, Z visas, etc., would become moot.


Dang I hate to admit it
But the Dixie Chicks are right. George Bush is an embarrassment! Where are those Impeach Bush nutjobs when you need 'em?

No, Robert
It depends on your ability to cite facts rather than spew disinformation. "Jabberwoky," for example, is a great read and totally meaningless.

Hey, be flattered: you just got compared to Lewis Carroll!

Warning to GOP:
If you "conservative" Senators and House members pass this god-awful amnesty bill, you will see hordes of your otherwise loyal voters sit home on Election Day in 2008!

You politicians value nothing more than your cushy jobs, so be enlightened on this fact: Mess with the values of conservative voters and you will be politically fustigated unlike anything you've ever before experienced!

We are simply fed up with punic, traitorous Republicans who will not defend liberty and the rule of law! John Kyl, Saxby Chambliss, Lindsey Graham, Lamar Alexander, Trent Lott - you should be ashamed of yourselves and the perfidy that governs your specious behaviour!

NO! to amnesty and NO! to the death of the American language and culture! Legal immigration, yes; pure amnesty -- absolutely NOT!


Robert is amazing
First he calls me uncomprehending, then he makes fun of my handle (or was it my having read Carroll?), but he never offers an apology or correction for his blatant misstatement of fact.

And people wonder why I'm "Grumpy"...

Vote Tancredo to stop amnesty
Here's a link to a great NEW short video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpXe0uduHDs

Robert DID have a sensible thought
""Hunter is one of the smartest people I know. He is well informed on the issues, bright, and articulate. And he is no "paper tiger". He is probably the closest to Reagan in the race in terms of just basic leadership.

Robert""

Will wonders never cease?


Liberty
My apologies.. Of course Ron Paul is for border security and the rule of law as is Tom Tancredo. With those two exceptions, the rest are panderers or obfuscators.

Race to the Bottom

Men in their 30s lag behind fathers in pay

Our trade and immigration policy is selling out future generations in America. Do you think Americans are waking up to this race to the bottom economic policy that is driven by cheap wages that help Multi-national Corporation at the expense of the middle class?

By The Wall Street Journal

American men in their 30s today are worse off than their fathers’ generation, a reversal from just a decade ago, when sons generally were better off than their fathers, a new study says.

The study, the first in a series on economic mobility undertaken by several prominent think tanks, also says the typical American family’s income has lagged far behind productivity growth since 2000, a departure from most of the post-World War II period.

The findings suggest “the up escalator that has historically ensured that each generation would do better than the last may not be working very well,” says the study, which is scheduled for release today.

READ MORE

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/men-in-their-30s-lag-behind-fathers-in-pay

perceptions and realities


The powers that be have NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER of enforcing current laws or future ones which would truly stanch the tsunami flow of ILLEGAL aliens. Middle America has now realized this, so the Washington shell game is backfiring among them. Fully 68% of Americans when polled HONESTLY (told the REAL levels of the foreign-born in America) say that they believe we must demonstrate successful enforcement and assimilation before talking about ANY further immigration:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back906.html
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20530

The $ and power are mostly on the side of the Conspiracy Of Evil which wants the "cheap" labor (actually, it is nothing of the sort all-in for society... see Heritage calculations) and votes. Barone is an "elitist," neoCON, open borders, globalist... he is simply trying to push more disingenuous sophistry to snow the masses. Teddy Homicide's immigration lawyers have again crafted this travesty bill. I cannot recall ANYTHING Teddy advocated being truly beneficial to Middle America, especially when the costs were factored in.

Those who think we need the "cheap" labor call those of us who seek to preserve America's socio-economic well-being by stressing educated, skilled immigrants racists/xenophobes. Funny thing, though-- everywhere you look you see Sen. Menendez, Commerce Sec. Gutierrez, and RNC Chair (Rino Network for reConquista) Martinez, and reps for latino advocate groups braying a programmed litany about "preserving families." I guess that is not really ethnocentricity antithetical to our best interests-- they just believe in family values-- like pandemic rates of illegitimacies, dropouts, crimes, drugs, gangs. Such a deal, Barone!

http://www.amren.com/Reports/Hispanics/HispanicsReport.htm
http://www.theamericanresistance.com/articles/art2004jan04.html


Comprende espanol, amigos?
_______________________________________________

CONTACT YOUR PEOPLE IN CONGRESS ASAP FOLKS.... TELL THEM YOU WANT TO STOP SCAMNESTY... AMERICA IS TOO IMPORTANT AND SPECIAL TO ALLOW IT TO DEVOLVE INTO A THIRD WORLD WELFARE STATE... IT IS EASY TO REACH MEMBERS OF CONGRESS RIGHT HERE:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

Bookmark it and contact them often! If you want subject specific messages already prepared that you can fax/e-mail, go here (a GREAT site):

http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

Presidente Jorge to crack down!

Presidente Jorge has the unmitigated gall now to say that we should crack down on enforcement on ILLEGAL aliens! [Sell that disingenuous drivel to the Polish Navy, Jorge!] The quisling-in-chief who has violated his oath of office to defend and protect the borders of America is now "shocked, shocked to see that ILLEGALS have gotten in here!" WHAT A SHAMEFUL CROCK!

The last time Jorge worked with the 'Crats we got No Bureaucrat Left Behind and Rx Care for Seniors-- both expensive, invasive boondoggles. Dubya is now making Jimma' Carter seem relatively competent by contrast!
We have spent $600 billion allegedly fighting (actually fostering) terrorists and making things worse in the M.E. even as militant Islamics dance across the border or overstay visas and permeate American society-- top flight enforcement there, Presidente Jorge! Go get those ILLEGALS and bad boy employers, Dubya! We have such confidence in your resolve to do so!

Robert
You were doing fairly well, until you advocated McCain or Julie-Annie as president. They are both LEFTIST pukes. BOTH want open-borders, Julie-Annie is for gun control and both pitch amnesty. Furthermore, Julie-Annie knows about as much about foreign policy as Jorge.

Julie-Annie does have a future as a drag queen, but not as president of our country.
Sign Up to Post Your CommentsSign Up to Post Your Comments
If you are already registered, click here to login. Otherwise, please take a few seconds to register with Townhall.com. Once you sign up, you’ll be able to post your comments immediately, use the action center, get podcasts, and more!
Note: Fields marked with a red asterisk (*) are required.
Salutation:
First Name:
*
Last Name:
*
Email:
*
Nickname:
*
Note: Nick name will be shown when you post comments.
Address 1:
*
Address 2:
City:
*
State:
*
Zip:
*
Phone:
      
Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
(Bi-Weekly) We highlight the best opportunities from our partners for surveys, action items and more.