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Friday, June 05, 2009
Rich Tucker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Blue in the 'burbs
by Rich Tucker
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You may not have noticed, but Hollywood has: you’re miserable.

No, really. According to Census Bureau numbers, roughly 75 percent of Americans live in suburbs. And, according to one of last year’s Golden Globe nominees for best picture, that’s eating away at us.

“Our whole existence here [in the ’burbs] is based on this great premise that we’re special. That we’re superior to the whole thing,” declares the female lead in the movie Revolutionary Road. “But we’re not. We’re just like everyone else. We bought into the same, ridiculous delusion.”

*** Special Offer ***

That “delusion,” as depicted in the film, is that a couple can be happily married, own a home with some land and raise children together in the suburbs. Indeed, it’s difficult to conceive of such a crazy notion.

But never fear, suburbanites. The government will ride to your rescue (if it doesn’t get stuck in heavy traffic on the way). The Department of Transportation and the Department of Housing and Urban Development have teamed up on a new interagency partnership to create what they call “affordable, sustainable communities.” Hint: the communities won’t look like your current cul-de-sac.

In a news release, DOT and HUD announced they intend “to give American families:

• More choices for affordable housing near employment opportunities;

• More transportation options, to lower transportation costs, shorten travel times, and improve the environment;

• The ability to combine several errands into one trip through better coordination of transportation and land uses;

• Safe, livable, healthy communities.”

Well. We’d all like to think Washington has bigger problems to worry about than whether we make one trip or two to pick up, say, groceries and prescription medicine.

But, just for the sake of argument, consider the fact that it’s much easier to “combine errands” in suburbia than it is in Manhattan. With one trip to the Super Target, one can pick up everything from food to clothing to entertainment. That would require at least three separate stops in a city, imposing a much higher cost in both time and money.

Still, if Washington gets its way, we’ll have more people packed into smaller spaces.

How can we be so sure that’s going to be federal policy? In April Energy Secretary Steven Chu explained to The Washington Post, “You read stories in Europe where there are in small apartments zero-net energy consumption apartments [sic]. There is -- you know, body heat keeps a lot of the apartment warm. You can’t do this in a big apartment with a few people.” No, you can’t.

Nor can you do it with a big house in the suburbs. Of course, that’s one reason people move out of the crowded apartment and into the home -- they’re not interested in sharing body heat with dozens of others. They want space and privacy, and the suburbs provide it.

Another reason people want their own home is that, according to the Energy Department’s own 2008 Buildings Energy Data Book, the single family home is actually more energy efficient for its size. That survey reports that the only reason apartments seem more efficient is because they’re so much smaller, a trade-off that Americans, by moving to the suburbs in the millions, have shown we’re not prepared to make.

Housing policy expert Ronald Utt of The Heritage Foundation took a closer look at the Data Book and made a surprising discovery. “The Energy Department forgot to collect and incorporate information on the energy required to light the common areas, including exterior and parking areas, lobbies, stairwells, laundry rooms, and hallways” of apartment buildings, Utt writes.

He adds it “also forgot to collect data on the energy used to heat and cool these common areas and the energy used to operate the elevators, washers and dryers, and swimming pools.” Include that information and apartment living becomes far less efficient, combined body heat or not.

Every now and then Hollywood looks out across the fruited plain and scoffs.

In 1999 it was American Beauty, which collected five Oscars for depicting a world in which the Marine officer was the bad guy and the drug dealer was the good guy. One can only wonder if the producers of the film doubted themselves after Sept. 11, when real American military heroes went to Afghanistan to destroy the Taliban, which had been supported in large part by drug money.

In general, a policy that enjoys 75 percent support is considered “popular.” Well, three quarters of Americans have chosen to live in the suburbs. They’ve invested their time and their money into getting out of “the city.”

Filmmakers scoff at us at their own peril -- suburbanites are, after all, “customers.” As for Washington, bureaucrats there are free to huddle together in their offices. But they should allow Americans to keep our split-level ranches, no matter how unhappy we supposedly are.

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About The Author

Rich Tucker is an editor in Washington D.C. and a columnist for Townhall.com.

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The real problem
of suburbia is that it's hard to homogenize a population in which people have room and privacy enough to do their own thinking.

Inevitably that leads to diversity of IDEAS, which is the only diversity that is not being promoted--which is indeed feared and hated--by the Left.

Hence the emphasis on CHANGE in our living arrangements, which bureaucrats HOPE will improve our lives, or at least make us easier to CONTROL.

Public Transportation
I never hear one obvious consideration when liberals push public transportation:

It works great in old cities that became large before the automobile became popular, but not in cities that became large afterwards (like Atlanta, LA or Houston).

The newly large cities are simply too spread out for metro-area-wide public transportation systems to be cost-effective.

Chris
Public Transportation doesn't work well because the model it uses is old and flawed. It works when you are taking people from the outer edge and bring them into the center, but now people are just as likely to live on one part of the edge (say Cartersville) and work in another part of the edge. How much Public transportation are they willing to invest in? The Atlanta metro goes from just over the border into Alabama to the "suburbs" of Athens and from the north Georgia mountains to the suburbs of Macon--we are talking an area as large as some states--90 miles by 90 miles.

And even if they made Atlanta cheaper to live in who wants to live there? High crime, high taxes, poor schools, poor services, the infastructure falling apart...no thank you...give me the exurbs.

I might also remind people that Taipei and Kaohsiung have people crushed into high density living, and both have public transportation and traffic is still awful.


Akagi, speaking off getting from
Cartersville to Athens ...
What ever happened to the outer loop they were talking about when I lived in downtown ATL in the early '90s?

I Will Follow ALGORE and Edwards
When the limousine liberals abandon their 30K square feet of living space and stop consuming 10x the kW/Hr of my puny 1.6K sqft home, I may consider moving back to a decrepit urban area. I like my wooded acres, my kitchen garden and the wildlife in my back yard too much to leave.

I probably live more sustainably than liberal Shorts in his Alpine, New Jersey McMansion (or so he claims). Aren't those collectivist, statist hypocrites funny?

Chris
The outer loop died when Roy Barnes lost the governorship.

To Akagi: Cost, Time, Energy
People who move into big cities are willing to pay a premium for their housing and often pay higher real estate taxes, more than they'd pay to live in the suburbs. Why? Being able to walk to work and to supermarkets, pharmacies, restaurants, all kinds of shops, church, school, health club, parks, museums and galleries, the zoo, and possibly a lake or riverfront means that people can actually opt not to own a car, renting one occasionally if they need one to go away for a weekend or whatever. Thus they save thousands of dollars a year, and they save the two hours or so a day they'd spend commuting in the suburbs. When they have an errand they can't walk to, public transportation whisks them where they need to go. I'm not so sure about the high crime you cite, either. Middle-class people who opt to live in the cities don't choose dangerous slummy neighborhoods, and the suburbs are far from crime-free. City life is a different lifestyle, in my experience one more oriented to neighborhood and more tolerant of diversity than suburban living. If you want to generalize, I would predict that conservatives would be happier in the suburbs (or the country) and liberals happier in the city.

But all of this is a matter of personal preference. It's another issue that spreading out our population requires more gas and oil for travel, often very non-essential travel, and that putting a family of 3 or 4 in a 3500 square foot house requires more energy per person for heat and AC than when population is managed with greater density.

You're So Full of C---,!
Where do you get your vision of urban life Lilly, "Seinfeld," "Sesame Street"? There may be a few square miles of premium neighborhoods in any given city. The balance of most cities are comprised of monotonous, high density housing with lots or glum folks.

I live outside a small town. I ride a bicycle to work in the summer. I have trees, open fields and small shops on a colonial era main street, just two miles from my home.

Your generalizing is a vulgar, small-minded trait. I'm a libertarian and I like to live outside the city of Philadelphia. If I wish to visit a museum, I can take a train into the city and be there nearly as quickly as it would take for a bus ride from my old row house neighborhood in the city.

You are correct about one thing. It's a personal preference and not the business of liberal hypocrites to tell anyone where or how they should live. Why don't you preach to your liberal high priests like John Edwards or ALGORE about sustainable living?

cars are freedom
In NYC, it can take hours to get from Queens to the Bronx on public transportation. What are we going to build rail service and new apartment buildings everywhere? Cars let you choose where to go, when to go, where to stop -- having lived in a city and the suburbs I like the suburbs way better. The huge cost of more public transit with a limited benefit is a very bad idea -- but people fall for it -- until they have to pay for it and live that way. There is a good policy to encourage cars that use less gas -- or do not run on gas at all because it has caused America lots of problems to rely on foreign oil -- even though it is less than half of all the oil we use. We can't afford to be so susceptable to foreign control.

not sure about diversity
I am pretty familiar with New York and Washington, DC -- and if you go to the "wrong neighborhood" you might have a "diversity" issue -- like being a target. It has happened to me -- while the people chasing me made it clear why my friends and I were being targeted (they mentioned our skin color). If you "look wrong" in the wrong neighborhood not only is it a problem -- but there will be no sympathy (ususally the response is you should have known enough to not go in that neighborhood). Race crimes are pretty uncommon in most places -- but they are pretty common in cities -- but nobody cares.

To Feargal
In your familiarity with New York and Washington, perhaps you noticed that quite a lot of people, who obviously have the means that allow choice, choose to live in New York and Washington. In fact, many residents of Capitol Hill and Georgetown and Gramercy Park and Yorkville and Cleveland Park and the Upper West Side and the East Village and Dupont Circle wouldn't be caught dead in the suburbs. Why do you think that is? Just curious.

To aloupekos
I have lived 30 years in suburbs and the entire rest of my life in cities, and I am pretty old, so I guess I can speak from experience about both. Since millions of people choose to live in cities, I must not be alone in seeing the advantages of city life.

But when urban planners talk about the disadvantages of suburban living, they aren't referring to personal preference for walking to work over growing tomatoes. They are talking about how we, as a nation, use our resources. Most suburban residential areas require a car if you want to buy a loaf of bread. Americans resist car-pooling and even school buses as inconvenient. It's not unusual for a suburban family to have a car for every member old enough to drive.

It should be obvious that maintaining four or five automobiles uses a lot of gas and oil. Add to this that in recent years our taste for ever-larger houses finds people maintaining a space much larger than they need. A couple with no children or one child buys a McMansion in which nobody is at home all day in a space 3000 sq ft that must be heated and air-conditioned sitting on an acre of lawn that requires water and maybe has a swimming pool as well. Our national battle cry "But I want it!" starts now to meet the reality of "But there isn't enough." And I suspect that many Conservatives would say next, "But I deserve everything I want because I am American."


Conservation
doesn't really matter to these self-important scolds. Efficiency doesn't matter. Sustainability doesn't matter. All they really care about is bossing their inferiors around and the sense of validation they derive therefrom. If everyone lived in cities, they'd be hatching schemes (supported by minutely detailed rationalizations) to move us out to the 'burbs. If everyone still lived on farms, they'd be fretting over the sad state of our cities and lecturing about the need to schlep us all downtown. If everyone used mass transportation, they'd be pushing bicycles. If everyone bought the Next Ice Age scenario, they'd get hysterical about Global Warming. Oh, wait. . .they've already done that.

Some people just can't bear to leave others alone. This is the central fact of government, of technocracy, and of liberalism.

Hollywood elitists/twilight zoners
Uh-hu, we are bad because we work hard to have a decent life away from the rat-race, unsafe cities? Excuse me, You guys all live in la-la land in castle-like paradise surroundings, with servants, expensive cars, the more expensive the better. But, you want US to live in human roach motels in cities and keewp warm with body heat? Many, if not most, of you lhave multiple large homes scattered around the U.S. and other countries with multiple sets of autos, expensive lifestyles set up...God, you left-wing facisist are unbelievable. You donate your money to elect a facists, or I should say buy the presidency for a non-eligible incompatent and then expect us to pay for abortions with our tax dollars and all the other social programs he is dreaming up. YOU pay for abortions with your abundance since you are the ones who believe in it. I help women in the way I believe in. I don't expect you to pay for what I believe in. This probably makes to much sense for you.

Conervation Hollywood style
Hollywood lives the elitist life, multiple, huge, expensive homes and lifestyles all over the country and world and they want ME to live in a rabbit warren box in the city to save energy. I don't think so. Who the Heck do you think you are? You people bought the prsidency for Obama, the great pretender now, you expect us to pay for all the socialist program he wants including abortion. Hey you pay for them, you believe in them. You pay for all this stuff, we don't want to. we want to pay for the things we believe in and donate to the causes we believe in. Does this make to much sense for lyou facisist?

Lilly...
...How dare those selfish people want to have their own likes and dislikes and to ignore their betters like...well...like you for example.They just carry this freedom thing too far and by god the government just has to do something about!

And speaking of the government,would it be too much too demand that politicians live and work by their ideas that they want to impose on us peons?How about banning all free parking around government buildings for politicians and their staffs?They can take public transportation to and from work just as they want everyone else to do.

Your contempt for how the common person wants to live is laughable and pathetic.

I'll tell Lilliputina what isn't enough
Not enough money.

US in boom years (five years of Bush' pres.) collected $2.5 trillion in taxes annually.

After that amount, the US must beg creditors (China) to support our debt by buying Treas. notes.

Or, the US has to just print money, a road to inflation (which it is doing).

The US has to raise taxes to fill the deficit gap (is happening on local and state levels).

The US is supporting its debt now by having the Fred. Reserve *buy* (issue IOUs, the way the gov't funds Soc. Sec.) Treasury notes.

If you did that you'd be arrested for fraud and/or go rapidly bankrupt.

I'm never buying GM or Ford, never moving to any planned fed.-sponsored communities, as they are prescriptions for crime and drugs--see, *the projects*--or believing anything King elect O says because all that counts is what he does, which is assume ownership of Am. private industry for purpose of power and rewarding unions.

The problem he is about to face is that while coddling the UAW, Big O is trashing NEA and PERS pension funds all over the country. There are more NEA members and retirees than the UAW membership since Henry Ford.

Should be never burying
GM or Chrysler.

Living in the USA
Living, as I do, in my highly desirable, very pleasant circumstances in northern Michigan I sometimes marvel at the complete blockheadedness I witness when it comes to allowing people to make choices about where and how they live.

Then I remember why it is that people in other parts of the world will willingly give up everything they have ever known, everyone they have ever had anything to do with, all the normal aspirations aacquired during their lifetimes of decisionmaking, risk it all---oftimes putting thir lives on the line---just to get their physical bodies onto this blessed soil.

They do not do so---as some would have it---to earn $10.00 an hour at some menial job, or to avail themselves of the tremendous "social safety net" we afford to the least of ourselves. They do it because, at the bottom of it all, there is the chance they just may, if they work hard enough, and become fortunate enough, be rewarded with the opportunity to acquire a small piece of real land on the ground, a personal, real "estate". It may not sound like much, but for largely political reasons, it is beyond the reach of most of humanity.

It is from these small places that the real "American dream" originates.

I could live comfortably and freely anywhere in this nation if I felt the men and women around were free to make their own choices, seek their own levels of attainment, and aspire to their own expectations. I will resist EVERY effort on ANYONE's part to diminish those dreams.

God bless us all, may we always find His face turned favorably toward our endeavors.


Dead on FeargalX!!!
Elites HATE freedom, especially freedom of choice, because us peons might not make the choices THEY want us to make. That's why Dems are the all time champs at election rigging. They don't trust the democratic process one bit.

They don't want us able to defend ourselves because a disarmed public is beholden to the police. The police on the other hand have a "get out of jail free card" in the form of a CONUS decision which has been taken to mean that they have NO OBLIGATION to protect individual citizens. This is to protect them from lawsuits when they arrive just in time to tag hubby's corpse and drive the raped wife to the ER.

Cars are also freedom. They allow us to live in the 'burbs AWAY from the urban scum we fled in the first place.


-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

"Revolutionary Road"

One of the most hateful films ever to come out of Hollywood. Can you guess who the hate is aimed at? Could it be White Americans?

Bingo.

And what did the producer and the director of this charming little film find evil about white, middle-class Americans this time?

Is it:

1. Racism? Nope. There's not a hint of it.

2. Imperialism? Nope. Not a hint of that either. In fact, a very brief part (basically a photo of two soliders on leave in Paris) might be the only good thing in the movie.

Hmmmm. So what could it be? Are you ready?

It's our very existence! That's right. You see white middle class, suburban Americans are just filled with despair and hopelessness. They're neurotic, too. And, of course, they're kind of bad.

Yep. Whites are just terrible people. That's the whole movie. Scene one to last scene. The Hollywood crowd must be proud. In fact, I understand Sean Penn and Janeane Garofalo have watched this flick together. Guess what? They loved it. What a surprise.

aahhh-choo!!
". . . than when population is managed with greater density." -(lily)

Unfortunately, there is a very large, very American bit of the population with a serious allergy to being a 'managed population'.

Revolutionary Road
What I got from both the movie and the book was this- A couple of white middle class liberals living a lie in the burbs, having a good old time trashing those around them(typical) and realizing at some point that they were actually no better than anyone thereby causing their implosion. I'm waiting for life to imitate art when the Obama fawners face reality.

nuclear energy
The big O thinks its all right for Iran to have nuclear energy,but we cant.I happen to live about seven miles from one,and the only time I notice it is when I go fishing in the lake it made.Of course the fish glow in the dark,but they still taste good

Ethology and overcrowding
Commenting on administration-mandated randomization of housing at Harvard, one dissenter writes:

What I am afraid of is not having enough space. In "O Rotten Gotham -- Sliding down into the Behavioral Sink," essayist Tom Wolfe attributes the breakdown of civil society in part to overcrowding, which has been shown to cause an increase in violence, disease, sexual perversion, and child abuse among rats -- in other words, a descent into the "behavioral sink." He sees warning signs of the same kind of degeneration in the behavior of human beings when they are packed into the tunnels and cars of the New York City subway -- the pushing and shoving, the barely concealed annoyance, the failed attempts to diffuse, to create a small pocket of empty space to keep from suffocating. Humans need a certain amount of moving space and living space -- about ninety square feet per person, according to anthropologist Edward Hall -- in order to retain their sanity and civility.

I may no longer have to ride the subway every day any more, but I'm still subject to the vagaries of the behavioral sink. When I'm sitting at lunch or dinner and I can't get out of my chair without crashing into the person behind me, I feel like I'm back on the uptown 6 train, squeezed into the communal sardine tin as I stand clear of the closing doors. When I'm carrying my tray from the kitchen to my table, I start grinding my teeth and wishing the plague upon the person in front of me who's moving at an amoeba's pace but won't let me pass.

Left wing hatred
The Left has always hated the suburbs. IMO it's because suburbanites are materially well off and tend to support the status quo...capitalism, opposition to radical change, etc. It drives the Left nuts. All those plump, smug Middle Class oafs that won't listen to the Left.

The funniest part is that the Left's utopian dreams of an egalitarian society with everyone living comfortably and in harmony is...in effect...the suburbs. The Left would destroy the very thing they would create...simply because they (the Left) don't control it.

Glossed over is the...
commentary on how the people putting together the energy survey 'overlooked' mounds of contrary data on large building energy consumption. This is the same cherry-picking (probably by the same people in the same organizations) who "missed" data on the state of American poverty. If you remember, in that case, amerika's struggling masses were soooo impoverished- as long as free housing, free food, free medical care and free education benefits were 'overlooked.' And the beat goes on; the beat goes on...

For Lilly

I grew up in 3000 years old city in Europe (one that already existed before being conquered by Romans in 2century BC). I lived there until I was 24. From then on, I lived in either small villages in Europe or suburbs here. I also would not change.

As I see it, the issue is very simple. Those who live in the cities have no problem with laws being enacted curbing some of the freedoms of the residents for "community wellness".

Why the suburbs or exurbs or rural land have less rules on when you party in your place, what animals you can have, how many cars you own ... and so on? For a simple reason: population density. Very basic math tells you that the more people you are forced to interact with, the higher the probability of being irked by their behavior. In the suburbs is relatively simple - mind you own business because space permits you to do so. In the city, you must curb annoying behavior by laws, regulations, condo rules ... and so on.

Now you know why, as you stated, conservatives prefer suburbs/exurbs/rural land over the cities - but it really has nothing to do with "I deserve more!"

I wonder...
what kind of home does Steven Chu live in?
Is he in an apartment? A single family home? A mansion?

Europe has tiny apartments because the people are so heavily taxed that they can't afford anything else.

As for "American Beauty", I hated that movie when I saw it. I can't stand to watch anything with Kevin Spacey in it ever since.

And as for the golden globe winner....I must be living in a movie fantasy. I have a nice home, 3 kids and a faithful husband and we are quite happy. Very blessed.

Oh goodie!
I get a little blue lemming sardine efficiency cubicle all to myself and my 13 illegal immigrant co-residents ? Whoo hoo ! I bet we get to share Obicycles too just like those cute pictures of China where the people cooperate all for the good of eachother.
I also dearly look forward to being on no longer grimy city buses that are in no danger of blowing up like in London, because thanks to our Oleader, everyone loves us more than they ever have !
I tried arugula the other day just so I could have a taste of my preventative healthy future, all for the grace of Obama's healthcare plan that although I know I'll have I don't want to put a burden on our new village and all you should do the same. We can ban all unhealthy behavior and fine those who won't do the right thing ! Think of the benefits of healthy, happy people all around you. :)
Now we'll all have to stay thinner so we can fit in our energy safe cubicled peopel shares - it's so exciting thinking about lots and lots and lots of neighbors just like me - the community blocks could go on forever ! We'd all be equally friends sharing in our group experience. I hope we can afford a circular cubicle share tower with a core person center area for socializing. Together we could plant the roof.
I've asked Obama to make sure the designers have elo-subway access right in our group living centers basement, it's the wisest and most efficient. With 400 units per communetower, we could have social workers and counselors living in each one, a glory to our mental heath and humo-consciousness.
I love our new coming world - it will leave all other areas au-natura like they should be, it's the only way to be responsible.
Now I just hope those evil republicans don't spoil this by not wanting to pay for it like they should, for all their old boy eco-destructions.

You're right, Dag
"where the people cooperate all for the good of eachother."

The last thing we want in America is people cooperating for the good of each other. What a horrible thought.

What we want is the the right that you have so enthusiasitcally supported, to simply shoot anybody who does what others don't approve of.

Fu-- the laws! Fu-- the government (any government)! Every man, woman and child for him and her self. It's the American way, it's the conservative prayer, it's God's method of showing us his love.

Wrat Wrangler
'Elites HATE freedom, especially freedom of choice,"


Yeah, I noticed that when Tiller, helper to people who exercised their freedom of choice, was so summarily gunned down to the applause of those who just love freedom of choice --you know the people who would deny the freedom to choose their health decisions, their means of death, their contraceptives,
their reproductive management, their medications, their marriage choices, and their sixual preferences.

I've seen how conservatives love choice.

Eileen
"You guys all live in la-la land in castle-like paradise surroundings, with servants, expensive cars, the more expensive the better"

Huh???

Eileen, you watch too much television. You need to get out more. This statement would be funny if it weren't so creepy.


Revolutionary Road
" The Hollywood crowd must be proud. In fact, I understand Sean Penn and Janeane Garofalo have watched this flick together. Guess what? They loved it. What a surprise."
Oh well of course, they are the darwinian elite (freaks of nature) who rose above peaceful white suburbia and made their lives the golden orbs of superiorness -so cackling at "the loser" and his unsatisfied wife who dream of living in France so they can "express their art (her) and find himself" in that superior left wing socialist society is the ultimate goal.
ROFLMAO
Liberals never figure out that no matter where they run to, they are stuck with the same creep.
I see the movie has a 7.7 at imdb -
People are just nutballs nowadays.
'Nominated for 3 Oscars. Another 6 wins & 20 nominations ' LOL
---
It's like the nobel and pulitzer prizes nowadays - they even handed some muzzie woman from Iraq one of the awards -
I think their smarmy honorific crap is pathetic - I guess it's all part of their self esteem quest.

Illinois
My ex-home state--I still get nostalgic for it, which is one reason I'm visiting here now, specifically near Alton in Madison County.

Some posters from the wonderful prairie state remind me of the classic line from The Blues Brothers:

"I hate Illinois Nazis!"



Dag
There are alot of stupid, arrogant, grievance collectors on TH but you are right at the top. You are like a caracature, which also make you kind of funny in the way of reality show freaks who like to reveal themselves as losers and patheto-bots.

As for all of the lame-brain discussions of Revolutionary Road, including this columnist's,here's some advice - choose you movies and books from a lower tier of intellectual challenbe - one you can actually comprehend, perhpas Danielle Steele.

Anbody who thinks RR was about the suburbs probably thinks MacBeth is about men whose clothes are too tight.


Why move to the 'burbs?
Here in Obama's Chicago we have had more schoolkids murdered than soldiers killed in Iraq. Sending your child to public school here is bordering on child abuse.
Obama's answer?-No choice,No vouchers,No hope,No change. Gotta keep those teacher's unions happy!

Uh, oh Dag
Now that I've insulted you are you going to hunt me down with your um, gun, to make another righteous kill? (This time for being an uppity woman?)

Lilly
says, "Some people wouldn't be caught dead in the suburbs. Why is that?" Iknow, teacher, I know! Call on me!

It's because they are pseudo-sophisticated, elitist, urban dwelling Democrats who resent and ridicule everything about middle America. They can't stand barbecue grills, garden hoses, goofy yellow labs, tricycles, swimming pools, pollution- spewing lawnmowers and the doofuses who ride around their too-big lawns on their John Deeres after taking the kids in the SUV to the soccer games. Ugh! And don't get them started on golf courses--those land-usurping, water--guzzling bastions of white privilege where evil capitalists make their deals.

Urbanites can easily walk or take public transportation to the cultural attractions. They can frequent the museums to see the latest stimulating contemporary works of art, such as "Pi$$ Christ," an intellectually challenging work of a crucifix immersed in urine. Urban sophisticates can more easiy attend elevating plays, such as "The Vagina Monologues," and they can have a season pass to the Smithsonian, to catch the latest tax-funded exhibits of the white male racist oppressor.

Urbanites don't have to be sedentary. They can jog in the beautiful and safe parks, if they choose the time of day wisely. Lunchtime was not a wise time for scores of unfortunate women, who, at least now, won't be "caught dead in the suburbs."

hi CRYBABY
It's a chomksy chump.
" watching from mars "
ROFLMAO
"an objective viewer" BWHAHAAHAAAAA
------
Eileen
"You guys all live in la-la land in castle-like paradise surroundings, with servants, expensive cars, the more expensive the better"

chomsky chump "Huh???

Eileen, you watch too much television. You need to get out more. This statement would be funny if it weren't so creepy."
---
He's right Eileen (that's creepy to him), he wants all of us in the tiny humo-cubicle group green butt gas body heat shares - where "people cooperate sharing bicylces and tiny efficiency apartments" ROFLMAO
---
So happy another libnut marusian chomscat is here. What a pathetic twit.


Douglas
'Here in Obama's Chicago we have had more schoolkids murdered than soldiers killed in Iraq. "

Gee, over 4,000 kids have been killed on the streets of Chicago? Now, there's a well-kept secret. Good think I have TH for the true facts.

Uhh..
Stop wetting yourself watching from mars.
" Now that I've insulted you are you going to hunt me down with your um, gun,.."
---
I noticed you chimed in with two watt insults and that's all you've done, so I kind of feel sorry for you, how pathetic you actually are.
---
So no worry really, you've lowered yourself so far in my estimation already not much chance. Your award in this thread: "the cheap brat tard mouth two worder"

Stilla to Lilly
Your picture of the average suburb is full of the usual, angry class-rant that I find here, but, actually, there are all kinds of suburbs, many of which have pawn shops, strip clubs, trailer parks, sex clubs, along with plenty of churches. My in-laws lived in a green suburb carved out of farmland where the college graduate rate was about 12%.

These idyllic, imaginary pictures of suburban life seem to be something culled from movies and TV, I'll just bet you've watched every episode of that " Desparate Housewives" program that was so famous, and thought that that setting was just like the rest of the country!!!

Here's a fast fact for you: That was fiction.

the marusian idiot
" Douglas
'Here in Obama's Chicago we have had more schoolkids murdered than soldiers killed in Iraq. "

watching from mars: Gee, over 4,000 kids have been killed on the streets of Chicago? Now, there's a well-kept secret. Good think I have TH for the true facts. "
-----------
In equivalent periods of time, you lame brained libtard. What a doof ! ROFLAMO !

Dag
I don't spare more than a few words for you.

In my mind you will forever be the guy who cheered for Tiller's murderer. I have it all copied, so I will be sure, in the future, to never misquote you.

I'm not afraid of you, you are the crazy Uncle that we have to invite on the 4th of July, when the other family members draw straws to see who will have to take the job of sticking close to you so you won't bother the other guests.

We also have an uncle with Dementia, but he actually means well and doesn't hate anybody so everyone actually likes him.


the doof does a dorf again
It appears to me that you are so stupid watching from mars, that you spend your time making errored "corrections" and just because nothing else goes on inside your gourd, you think you have to tell someone else a tv series isn't real.
I'd say you're the little irritant everyone else is way ahead of, who says something so ignorant at the family get togethers, that it gets quiet for a moment, then everyone ignores you and moves on. They pat you on the head and tell you you're bright before you leave, too.

Stilla
Here I thought that it was liberals who were the party of class warfare and class hatred.
Silly me, I didn't know that you were competing for the title.

You know, you could always follow Dag's example and just blow the brains out of all those people who follow the laws you still don't like-
thing of all the non-smoking, green-conscious, book-reading elites you could take out in a day, just by hiding behind a tree in one of those fancy parks?

Yep! The Critics Raved About This Film

Let's take a further look at what they were so in love with.

Although it united the "Titanic" lovers, anyone hoping to see the stars in another love story can forget about it. Director Sam Mendez must have loved that aspect. Get people all ga ga over seeing Leo and Kate on the big screen and than present a film so depressing it makes "Sophie's Choice" look like a comedy. Good Grief.

Than make sure the Winslet character portrays a mother who is indifferent to her children and dies from a self-induced abortion. Yikes!

What a lovely flick.

And, of course, have every single person in the movie (it's an all white cast) have no redeeming qualities what-so-ever.

How charming.

Dag
"In equivalent periods of time, you lame brained libtard"

So 4,000 plus schoolchildren were murdered on the streets of Chicago in four years?

Where DO you get all this fascinating information?

The city and the suburbs-- feh!
False dichotomy. I like small towns, or the 'suburbs' of small towns, which is where I live now. The grocery store, library, doctor, dentist and hardware store are all within walking distance. Everybody knows who their neighbor is. People get together to get the political needs of the community met. True, I have to drive a hundred miles to go to a McDonalds or mall, but that strangely has no terrors for me. If I walk a quarter mile from my house the road ends and I am in hundreds of square miles of desert wilderness. Every variety of wildlife imaginable lives right in front of my house.

Now why would I trade all that for Starbucks and a museum city people talk about but visit less than I do?

Glad the libs have their psychobabble
Well, the little red planet brat spilled his guts and he doesn't evne know it ! hahaha
---
" In my mind you will forever be the guy who cheered for Tiller's murderer. I have it all copied, so I will be sure, in the future, to never misquote you.

I'm not afraid of you..."
---
Oh, yes you are. Now how many did you kill ? How many babies have you murdered, you sick, sick, pathetic twit !
Oh the confessions I have to take, I tell ya, and the libs scream about religion and priests, but they can't help blabbing about themselves all over the place, even when they don't mean to.
Don't outright confess here little red, you'll scare yourself even more. Best reverse and deny it, so you don't have to worry..
BWAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

And so it begins...
Next we will be hearing about some "crisis" in suburbia that the government will have to “solve”. First the government says they are offering "choices" then, the choices become mandatory.

This is the ultimate goal of all socialist/fascist regimes. Take away all private property and herd the masses together into one place where they will be easier to manage. Then any sort of resistance can be easily monitored and squashed. Hmmm, this sounds very familiar. Can anyone say The Old, Southern Plantation. We all be slaves now.

Government will make sure all the young, healthy “products of production” work hard to make a first rate life for the elite. All those empty houses won’t just be mowed down. They will be handed over to the bureaucrats and other government bodies who serve the “administration”.

Ahh, another brilliant missive from mars
Now the Iraq war is this long - err - short !
BHWAHHAAAAAAA
watching from mars-tard: " So 4,000 plus schoolchildren were murdered on the streets of Chicago in four years? "
---
Yes, four years. LOL hahahahaaaaaaaaa
---
musta been that public school group touch session that did that lib brain in.
hahaha

Recovering Urban Dweller
The experiment with big city living is mercifully over. Should have known better. Better have tons of money and a tolerance for daily outrages: On- street parking which can mean a three- block walk in the rain with the groceries, winos in the alley to the back garden patio, predators from the hood circling like buzzards to spot a carelessly laid bicycle or skateboard, trolls lying in wait for the paperboy or the kids cycling over the bridge to the YMCA, public school mini-thugs extorting lunch money and swiping backpacks, rec centers, basketball courts and swimming pools all controlled by the thugs, Black racist public school teachers with poor grammar and worse work ethic, daytime grocery store muggings and purse snatchings, wrought iron patio furniture that must be chained, the screaming of ambulance and police sirens day and night, constant noise of traffic, exhaust fumes from the city buses, heat steaming off the asphalt,

BUT, historic homes with character and charm, elegant architecture, museums, theater, fine dining, harbor views...and, basically everthing that kids could not care less about. Live and learn.

It all depends on which city
My husband and I purchased a huge old rundown house in a historic urban neighborhood. We have worked on this home for ten years, and it is beautiful now. I wouldn’t leave this house for any reason, but I don’t like the neighborhood.

Neighbors here are not courteous. We have one neighbor we must phone the police on at least twice a month for having all night, loud parties in his back yard. Several neighbors allow their dogs to bark all night and people think nothing of firing up a motorcycle at 3 am or sitting on the street with their car stereo blaring. Amenities are absent.

When I lived in suburbia, there was a huge shopping center just a couple miles from my home. Along the same stretch of highway all the latest restaurants were built. Everything from high-end dining to fast foot. You could go to the dentist, see a doctor, open a bank account, go to dinner, see a move, buy a party gown and have your car serviced all within a mile square, and there was plenty of free parking.

In the area where I now live, there are high-end restaurants and a movie theatre but few fast food establishments. Everything is very spread out. If you live in one of the Condo’s right in the heart of downtown, you can walk to these shops, but if you live in a house out on the edge of the metro area, you must drive or take the bus. Expensive clothiers are plentiful, but there are no department stores where you can purchase a coffee pot or other household items. Pharmacies are on the edge of town, and you have to drive to suburbia to get your car serviced or buy tires. Parking is expensive.

I had many more conveniences within a much smaller area when I lived in suburbia than I do living in urban Indianapolis, and the neighbors wouldn’t dream of doing the kinds of things that go on here.

Misery loves...Bolsheviks?
Thank goodness Hollywood's looking out for us...so we can have more disposable income to spend on those increasingly pricey movie tickets.

I can hardly wait till our Bolshevik government...or is it Hollywood...seizes our miserable suburbanite plots and redistributes them, nationalizes the banks and industry--oh, my bad, they've already done that.

stilla
I just read your post, and it reminded me of some other things.

Everyday on my way home from work, panhandlers stand at the stop lights and come up to your car asking for handouts. I have tried giving them a few dollars, and they complained that it wasn't enough. My compassion promptly came to a halt. I don't give anything anymore.

I also get this when I enter a drug store and we have regular hustlers who come knocking on our door asking for money. We now have an intercom on our front porch, so I don't have to answer the door for these people. I just say "Go away".

When we first moved into our home, we had someone sleeping in our garage. We kept finding the door part way up and other evidence. I joked to my husband we should just put a pillow and some blankets out there and charge rent. We finally got a lock on our garage door.

Two years ago, someone broke into our garage and stole my bicycle. Although the overhead door had a lock, they busted in the side door.

People across the street from us had their house burglarized, car keys taken, and car stolen. This happened while they were HOME AND ASLEEP. The car was then used in a murder.

Yes, urban life is grand.

Elitists
Hollywood Rich Liberals, Media Moguls & Editors, Political Elitists, Super Rich Establishment types, etc --- they are the Czars of today and want to enslave all the middle class by pushing them down into the poor category. Tea Party Any one????

Being Bi-County

Being By-county I can see a big differenct between Liberal inner cities and Conservative rural communities.

In Liberal communites there is less respect for others. Sales people tend to be rude, people are discourteous and uncaring about their fellow man. Much more dependance on local government for the simplist things.

In conservative communities people respect each others property, privacy, and look out for each other. When someone gets sick a neighbor will often show up at your door with a pot of food so you don't have to cook. Sales people treat friendly and treat you with respect.

Schools in conservative communities are far better even thought the government spending is greater on inner city public schools.

There is a sense of family that you won't find in Liberal communities.

People cheerfully volunteer their time to support the community where in Liberal inner cities people spend a great deal of time looking for Government hand-outs to support communiy organizations.

People are just happier in Conservative communities.

FOOLS WHO THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING
How passe is Hollywood? Let me tell you.

Stars are a dime a dozen, and they can't give them away.

Only a fool would believe anything about the philosophy of life that is produced by Hollywood. After all, they don't even know who lives in the "suburbs".

I am happily married for over 25 years, I live in the suburbs. My children are wholesome and work hard--just like me and my wife do--fancy that!

Also, we do not believe the "Hollywood" lifestyle is anything more then a sham, embarassingly crass and absolutely below our lifestyle and values. We live better then that!

HAVE A NICE DAY--AVOID GOSSIP MAGAZINES.

ROWDY BOOTS

Moron from Mars:
Listen Marvin,

We want to overturn Roe v. Wade because it is BAD LAW arrived at in an ARROGANT activist manner by a politically motivated cabal of black robed demigods.

IF it was overturned tomorrow abortion would STILL be legal. The difference is that FEDERALISM would have been restored along with the TENTH AMENDMENT!!! EVER hear of THAT one you turd?

The STATES created the federal government NOT the other way around. The STATES retained almost all power and delegated a TINE number of enumerated powers to the fed. This HAS to be restored.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

Truly False Dichotomy
Lilly,

I spent 30+ years living in high density, urban areas, so I resent your lecturing me about the selfishness of my suburban, small town life. I am not the one who seeks to change or even denigrate your lifestyle. I only seek individual liberty and freedom from busybody government.

The collectivist, statists seem to believe that living outside an urban area must mean 4000 sqft plus McMansions, a pair of Hummers in the driveway, white faces and chemically enhanced lawns for hundreds of miles in every direction. More than half of my neighbors are liberal Democrat Obama supporters who buy into this pretense, yet live in a far less sustainable manner than I do.

My family recycles, composts kitchen waste, lives modestly and buys locally grown food. I give to my local Audubon Society, Nature Conservancy, buy duck stamps and enroll my kids in 4H nature conservationist projects. I would be a typical liberal "saint," except for my libertarian views and a well-stocked gun cabinet.

Enjoy your urban oasis Lilly and keep out of my business. When the Schumer hits that fan and the Morlocks get hungry, you may wish that you stayed in the 'burbs.

alopekos teumesios
As you prove by your actions every day, there is a difference between real environmentalists and the many "environmentalists" who talk a good sounding game but actually seek only POWER.

These environazis need to be confronted, challenged, and defeated.

Over and over, unintended bad consequences have followed bad environmental decisions. We do NOT fully understand ecology; there are too many variables. What we do understand is that prediction is dangerous and that some common sense practices appear to be both harmless and beneficial, like composting.

I grew up when my area was all
farms. My grandparents were dirt farmers. What they had was dirt.

I know more about real wildlife, wildfires--that used to rage through the Pinelands and are needed today for many evergreens to drop their seeds--and nature than most *experts* who couldn't track a deer or know what a saltlick was if they fell over them.

People didn't *recycle.* They *made do.* Everyone rode bikes. My mother never learned to drive until she was 38. We had a next-door neighbor who rode a bike all of her life. It had nothing to do with *saving the planet.* The family never had a second or third or fourth car.

Now, that I live in a *nice* house (not a McMansion) on a big piece of property, which I inherited and improved, I don't feel I owe the libs. anything. And I don't want anything from them.

Lilliputian has never known a life led outside the liberal myths of diversity and *environment.* And don't respond defensively or with guilt. She's just a lost troll and no better than any one else.

But like Joe Louis who said he had been rich and he had been poor, and rich was better. Affluence with enough food, enough heat and air, enough medical care, and enough savings is better.

The Urban Mentality
If we subscribe to the Woody Allen view of lfe and the idea of each of us needing the continuing care of a psychologist, then let's all sit back and let the government force feed what's best for us down our throat. Paraphrasing Shakespeare, "First, kill all the planners who live in the rabbit warrens called apartments, condos and townhouses in D.C., NY and other major crime-ridden places that they call effective and gracious living." The only reason many city dwellers don't move to the suburbs is that there are fewer people to rob.

alopekos teumesios and Oldprof
Well said, both of you.

Many who preach environmentalism are interested mainly in enhancing their own power, options, prestige, and self-esteem or in imposing limits on those they disapprove of. More often than not, they practice the opposite of their preachments. For example, a discouragingly large number of Western environmental activists are also collectivists despite the sorry environmental record of collectivist regimes. It's no coincidence that Russia, Poland, and China are among the most polluted places on earth. Dictators can do what they please without a thought for the harm they inflict.

_Conservativism_ and _conservation_ are related by more than etymology. The conservative mind is skeptical of fads and haste, realistic about human knowledge and human nature, attentive to the worth of the individual, convinced of the power of free people and free markets, and reluctant to abandon the past or betray the future solely for the enthusiasm of the moment. Conservatism is therefore especially congenial to the duties of environmental stewardship.

I teach my students the first
*environmentalists* were Republicans, like Teddy Roosevelt, and under him the first major parks like Yosemite and Yellowstone were founded.

Also, there is a connection between conservation and the conservative movement. The libs. didn't invent any of the *idealism* they tout today while sneering at the rest of us, and they are usually really bad examples of personally practice what they preach. A huge ex. is the entertainment ind. that uses GOBS of energy, fly around in private planes, ride everywhere in limos, and spend fortunes on their interminable shopping.

I would bet I've used less energy in my entire life than a Tom Cruise or Paris Hilton uses in a couple weeks.

Like Charity, Environmentalism Should
not be forced upon a free citizen. I live the way that I do because I believe it is the proper way to behave. I find conspicuous consumerism of my liberal neighbors vulgar, but as an advocate of individual liberty, I do not seek legislative interference with their behavior.

Look at liberal "Shorts" in North Jersey. By his own admission, he lives in a manner that likely creates a greater carbon footprint than my family. He proudly flaunts his lifestyle, yet Lilly does not admonish the profligate consumption of her fellow liberal statist. It just proves her hypocrisy beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Oldprof I like the way you think

I'm so thankful my boys are grown. They grew up when our town was small and quaint. They rode motorcycles at the sand pits. They camped out in the back yard. They caught turtles and crawdads by the river. They spent endless hours swinging on the tire swing (along with every neighborhood kid). They rode their bikes everywhere without a thought of heavy traffic or kidnapping.

Seems idyllic now.


Are these people serious?
Does Steven Chu aspire to heat his place with body heat? Are these people insane, retarded or both?

Oakley
You just described my childhood in northern Illinois.

Other Side of Coin
Our home in an upper middle-class suburb was broken into and robbed by a teenager (white BTW), son of local business owner, who was addicted to drugs and seeking money to buy them. Yes, our suburban community was pretty. It had lakes. Local teenagers stole garden furniture and bicycles and threw them into the lakes. We had jogging paths. Joggers got mugged there. We had pretty parks. Local teenagers vandalized them. We had a large and lovely shopping mall. Its parking lot was the scene of many armed robberies. When we sold our home our saleslady was mugged and knocked flat on the ground while leaving our Open House.

I have worked with families in these "idyllic" suburbs. They are plagued by alcoholism, drug addiction, infidelity, divorce, violent spouse and child abuse, and the sexual abuse of children. Children and teenagers are left unsupervised while parents work multiple shifts to meet expenses, commute for hours each day, travel for work, travel to go gambling, go to the gym, have affairs, meet their pushers, go on a romantic vacation, take courses, and go off to "find themselves". These "microwave children" prepare their own meals and do whatever they like. Suburbs are not free of the same social pathology that affects the cities and it's naive to think that they are.

Meanwhile, the suburbs trap and isolate those who are unable to drive (kids too young to drive; elders who can no longer drive; those prevented from driving by illness or disability). City kids take bus or subway to school; suburban kids don't learn this independence and often are not allowed to use public transportation even where it exists.

OK, Now What?
Lilly,

You can rattle off apocryphal anecdotes all day and it means nothing. Perfection is not imposed by an environment in which one lives, but by the path that one chooses to take. If you create an urban Utopia, then people may freely choose to move there. Liberty means taking responsibility for the choices that one makes in life.

On the other hand, if your plan involves coercion and forcible relocation, then you had better prepare for horrible repercussions.

Dude, don't knock
American Beauty. A great if not altogether classic film.

Lilly
Your experiences sound pretty horrific to me. I've lived in or near very pretty parts of Illinois where such things would be commonplace, but I make no guesses. They happen in Texas too, of course. A case can be made for suburban living or for urban living; In any case my heart goes out to anyone who has endured such ugly examples of what humans do to each other.

After my sixteen year old son was killed in a car wreck, thieves stole potted plants from his grave.

After my wife's grandmother was killed and her grandfather severely brain damaged by a drunk driver, the drunk's relatives verbally attacked her entire family, and the drunk was excused from any legal penalty because he was "not responsible" for his behavior.

Nevertheless, I will assert to my dying day that God loves us and that ultimately things will go according to his will, however weak and inadequate my understanding of events here in the land of shadows.

See my post to you following the Cushman article.

Sorry marcmat,
but I must agree 100% with the author concerning "American Beauty." I found the whole film to be an inept endorsement of "I'm OK, you're OK" slovenliness. Its premise rests on assumptions that smoking pot in your 50s will make you feel young again, that no one should have to set their beer glass down prior to intercourse, and that filming a plastic bag floating in the breeze makes someone a brilliant artist.

Worse yet, the film is chock-full of ridiculous, politically-motivated stereotypes and exaggerations (e.g. ALL suburbanites are freaks, ALL homophobes are closet homosexuals, and ALL teenage girls obsessed with well-endowed men are really just virgins).

I interpret the film as a rambling attack on the American dream. I don't respect that position, nor do I regard Kevin Spacey as more than a one-dimensional actor.

Obviously you feel differently, so I'd be interested to know how anyone can defend the film's merits. I'm honestly curious as to what I'm supposedly missing, so spare no criticism if you choose to respond.

If you have time...

lilly
Too bad IL state law prevents firearm ownership. You might have had better luck with the crime problem if criminals had anything to fear inside the premises they were burglarizing.

I visited an Illinois suburb once, Evanston. That was one of the crummiest places I've ever visited anywhere from Alaska to Antarctica. Law enforcement did NOTHING to combat transients and aggressive panhandlers. Panhandlers would actually enter restaurants soliciting handouts from customers. Moreover, staying at that city was more costly than NYC (even though I refused to give to the scum). If this is your idea of what constitutes "suburbia," then I understand why you would be so critical, though I doubt anyone would be so foolish as to believe that this rathole typifies suburban living.

You're state is a total joke. ROFLMAO, as you liberals like to say!

I love Illinois
even though some of its elected officials can't seem to behave themselves.

i still sing to myself the state song, the loveliest, most poetic and most singable of all the state songs I know.

By thy rivers gently flowing, Illinois, Illinois,
By thy prairies verdant growing, Illinois, Illinois
Comes an echo on the breeze, rustling through the leafy trees,
And its mellow tones are these, Illinois, Illinois.
.....................

Not without thy wondrous story, Illinois, Illinois,
Could be writ thy nation's glory, Illinois, Illinois
On the record of the years Abraham Lincoln's name appears,
Grant and Logan and our tears, illinois, Illinois.

The song of my current residence, Texas, doesn't hold a candle to it, and our national anthem is much harder to sing well.

Maximillian
I guess I just don't see the film as an overall indictment of modern suburbia. By the same token, I found myself empathizing at various points with Kevin Spacey's character -- for instance, the way his family makes him feel "irrelevant" (as he himself states in the movie), as well as the various scenes which artistically depict him as "trapped." I also still relish the moment when his unfaithful wife pulls up at the fast food window where Spacey now works, and he smugly says to her, "Nah-ah. You don't get to tell me what to do ever again."

I am happily married with a bunch of kids, three cats, a dog, and a lawn to care for here in Holland, Michigan. Regardless, I can still see the humor of a beautiful film that pokes fun at family dysfunction. Rent the DVD some night and watch the version with the directors' voice over pointing out the all symbolism, the crafty use of light and the color red in various scenes etc. The film truly is a work of art, at least in my view.


America needs its knees.
Where are the people coming from that will be willing to move into crime ridden, poor school, ugly, graffitied, impersonal cement jungles? What will happen to the homes in the suburbs that supposedly people will want to leave? The population is not growing. There are too many homes on the market now. Is this really about reparations? Public housing was a major failure. Look at Cabrini Green in Chicago. It was a breeding ground. Spreading the wealth around is a failure. Believing that the successful hardworking suburbanites should be forced to give back to the people that they supposedly oppressed because capitalism is evil is building on a false premise. Legislating on lies. Enough. OBAMA is smashing out our knees like a Chicago thug. America needs its knees.

Oldprof
For the record, I only meant to criticize Illinois politics. I'm sure there are plenty of beautiful places within the state that exceed Evanston's shortcomings.

Pardon me if I have offended your sentiments.

Marcmat
Thanks for responding, I'm still not sure I agree with you about the movie, but perhaps I'll watch some of it again in the future.

One outstanding "art movie" that did not garner much acclaim is "Broken Flowers" starring Bill Murray. It employs many similar symbolic devices similar to "American Beauty." The color pink, for example, bears a strong significance throughout. Best of all, it has a commendable underlying message, chiding the wantonness of the protagonist's lifestyle.

I urge you to watch it when time permits, if you have yet to do so.

Not actually offended
I merely wanted to sing an old song I like to remember. I often play it on the harmonica, sometimes for live audiences.
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