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Friday, May 11, 2007
Rich Tucker :: Townhall.com Columnist
Inaction on Immigration
by Rich Tucker
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


It’s almost comical to watch issues come and go in Washington, D.C. Consider Social Security.

Two years ago President Bush was touring the country, promoting his plan for reform. It went nowhere. So now we’re closer to the baby boom retirement surge and we’ve had no reform, no new plans, and nobody seems to care. Illegal immigration’s a similar story.

Almost three years ago, TIME magazine did a special report about the border. The cover showed two hands ripping through an American flag and declared “even after 9/11, it’s outrageously easy to sneak in.”

When a bastion of the liberal media identifies a problem, one would expect lawmakers to race to solve it. However, when it comes to illegal immigration, Washington has provided plenty of talk but very little action.

For example, I have a correspondent in southern California who’s been part of a private effort to catch illegals. I asked him recently how things were going at the border.

What border?” he wrote. “Day after day, we have both in-person sightings, and remotely recorded videos of groups crossing.” It was just a year ago that President Bush ordered 6,000 National Guard troops to help out along the border, but they’re clearly not accomplishing enough. On a recent day, my correspondent reports, “There were no Border Patrol or National Guard at the border in our area the entire day.”

But there were illegal aliens. Just two days later, he writes, “a group of at least four illegal aliens was detected using our RVS (Remote Viewing Site) cameras. This was reported to Border Patrol, but they did not have agents assigned to the border this day and could not respond.”

Our lack of action has real consequences.

Nobody knows exactly how many people are here illegally, but the Pew Hispanic Center estimates there are between 11.5 and 12 million illegals, and it says 40 percent of them have arrived in the last five years -- in other words, since 9/11.

Just this week authorities broke up an alleged plot to attack Fort Dix in New Jersey. At least three of the six men arrested were in the country illegally. And the fact that we can’t enforce our immigration law sends a dangerous signal to those who want to attack Americans. “With 12 million here illegally from Mexico, why would any visitor think we could or should enforce the law?” Victor Davis Hanson asks in National Review Online. He adds it’s now “deemed more illiberal to turn in an illegal alien than to be one.”

Many local laws prove that.

The former police chief of Washington D.C. once wrote a memo explaining, “Officers are strictly prohibited from making inquiries into citizenship or residency status for the purpose of determining whether an individual has violated the civil immigration laws or for the purpose of enforcing those laws.” And there are dozens of other “sanctuary cities” where local authorities have promised to ignore federal orders to crack down on illegal aliens.

The fact is we just aren’t serious about attacking this problem. Last year, President Bush said it was time to change that. “In Washington, the debate over immigration reform has reached a time of decision,” he announced. And the Senate did pass a bill last year that would have provided amnesty to most of the illegals who are already in the U.S.

Luckily, members of the House opposed that idea so strongly the bill died. But now, under new leadership, the Senate is poised to again float its amnesty bill. Senators may vote as soon as next week.

They should say “no” to amnesty. A country simply can’t reward people who’ve been breaking its laws. We tried that in 1986, granting temporary resident status to anyone who’d been here for five years. But that law didn’t slow the flow of illegals then, and amnesty won’t work today either.

Instead, lawmakers should focus their efforts on stopping the flow of new illegals. This actually wouldn’t be that difficult. As my correspondent notes, his area had zero crossings when the National Guard was on duty. But once its patrols were eased back, “crossings returned to their usual ferociously out-of-control level.” We need to put guards along the border to discourage illegals. At the same time, we need to crack down on the people who hire illegal aliens.

This, also, can be done. After all, relatively few professions are open to illegals. They mostly work in food (serving it and picking it), janitorial services, construction and low-skill manufacturing. The federal government should make it easier for employers to verify that an employee’s here legally, and it should crack down on the businesses that employ illegals.

This isn’t rocket science. Our leaders have been talking about how to fix illegal immigration for years. Now, it’s time to actually do something. Let’s solve this problem, so we can get back to ignoring Social Security.

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About The Author

Rich Tucker is an editor in Washington D.C. and a columnist for Townhall.com.

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Complaining Isn't Enough Folks
On my blog, Campaign2008Victory (click on name above) I have been making the case that the only way to get anything done about such problems is to elect conservatives to the House and Senate. Merely listening to Lou Dobbs and complaining loudly is not going to have any effect. In Pennsylvania last November, we lost some crucial seats to Democrats who will sit on their hands "unto eternity" because they will support enforcing our laws on immigration. If conservatives don't act vigorously, we might as well even stop talking about such issues.

steve maloney
ambridge, pa

America's Future

In 2008 we must make the candidates address border security and immigration enforcement.
20-30 million citizens of other countries are in our country illegally, 55% from Mexico, most of the rest from other Central and South American countries. Let's not ignore the leftward voting trends of these countries. It is notable that they picked May Day, an old communist day of celebration for their marches.

Most polls show at least half of the American citizens of Hispanic descent want the borders and laws enforced. Republicans will not win by alienating their current voters to get 40% of a new small block that will grow very large, very fast if amnesty is granted. That will grow the Democrats vote larger and faster as the influx increases exponentially as the result of another amnesty. It will spell the end of the Republican Party. The people who used to vote Republican will stop voting or form a new party. Conservatives will lose political influence and we will slide inexorably towards socialism (it has already started).

Most of what you hear about this issue is political propaganda that tries to convince you to give up your country without a fight, including on Fox News. The big money players are all on board the cheap labor express, they care not that American citizens do not want another amnesty. We know the last one resulted in 10 times the number of illegal aliens and a general disregard of our laws. The next one will be equally successful.

We need Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, not reform. We need to restore respect for the law and the faith of the American people that their government is not selling them out. Amnesty for the illegal aliens is also amnesty for the corrupt companies who have been employing them. Money trumps everything, including love of country. Multi-nationals have no loyalty to country by definition, they see us as a market, not a nation. They see people as workers, documented or undocumented, no difference. If they can't send the work to where the labor is cheaper, then they want to bring the cheap labor here. Citizenship is meaningless.

If we love our Constitution and our representative Republic and we intend to keep it we must not surrender our sovereignty or abandon the rule of law. Profits must not supercede security. We should not create a new path to citizenship. We have a path to citizenship, more generous than any other country, illegal aliens have ignored it and bad choices do have consequences.

America's Future

These next 2 years are vital to the future of this country. For 2007 we must make certain that McCain/Kennedy or whatever it's called this year does not pass the House. It will pass the Senate. The President will sign it, followed by the Totalization Treaty with Mexico, which qualifies former illegals with just 6 qtrs(18 mo) even if worked illegally, the benefits that we had to work 40 qtrs(10 yrs) to qualify for.

In 2008 we must make the candidates address border security and immigration enforcement.
20-30 million citizens of other countries are in our country illegally, 55% from Mexico, most of the rest from other Central and South American countries. Let's not ignore the leftward voting trends of these countries. It is notable that they picked May Day, an old communist day of celebration for their marches.

Most polls show at least half of the American citizens of Hispanic descent want the borders and laws enforced. Republicans will not win by alienating their current voters to get 40% of a new small block that will grow very large, very fast if amnesty is granted. That will grow the Democrats vote larger and faster as the influx increases exponentially as the result of another amnesty. It will spell the end of the Republican Party. The people who used to vote Republican will stop voting or form a new party. Conservatives will lose political influence and we will slide inexorably towards socialism (it has already started).

Most of what you hear about this issue is political propaganda that tries to convince you to give up your country without a fight, including on Fox News. The big money players are all on board the cheap labor express, they care not that American citizens do not want another amnesty. We know the last one resulted in 10 times the number of illegal aliens and a general disregard of our laws. The next one will be equally successful.

We need Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, not reform. We need to restore respect for the law and the faith of the American people that their government is not selling them out. Amnesty for the illegal aliens is also amnesty for the corrupt companies who have been employing them. Money trumps everything, including love of country. Multi-nationals have no loyalty to country by definition, they see us as a market, not a nation. They see people as workers, documented or undocumented, no difference. If they can't send the work to where the labor is cheaper, then they want to bring the cheap labor here. Citizenship is meaningless.

If we love our Constitution and our representative Republic and we intend to keep it we must not surrender our sovereignty or abandon the rule of law. Profits must not supercede security. We should not create a new path to citizenship. We have a path to citizenship, more generous than any other country, illegal aliens have ignored it and bad choices do have consequences.

Immigration
These people are not illegal aliens or any other phony designation - they are illegal invaders. As far as I am concerned they are no better than nazi's crossing the border with rifles. The fact that they are carrying rakes makes them no less dangerous to the ultimate survival of the American state and culture. While I am ordinarily a supporter of the President, I am in favor of impeaching him because he has deliberately failed to safeguard our borders, particularly our southern border. I am having a hard time determining which is the greater threat to our survival, unlimited illegal invaders or the Mussulmen who could also make up part of the former.

Southern threat
This manmade flood like any natural flood has to be fought and our country has to stem the flow. I called for the third time today to ask my rep where he stood and was given the line from his phone person(see,I can be politically correct) that she was not qualified to answer me but she would pass my question and phone number on to the rep. Well if I don't hear from him by tomorrow I will not only not vote for him I will do everything I can to insure he doesn't get reelected. Maybe if we all did this regardless of their affiliation, and they saw their jobs blowing in the wind, maybe just maybe they'd listen. They say each call represents something like 5 votes so 1000 of us would represent 5000 votes. what did your rep and congr. man win by last time? Can they afford to loose say 15000 votes on one issue?

Steve
"On my blog, Campaign2008Victory (click on name above) I have been making the case that the only way to get anything done about such problems is to elect conservatives to the House and Senate."

But Steve, the first thing one sees when visiting your blog is your statement that you support Giuliani, the bald Hillary. Clearly, you have no clue as to what a conservative actually is, so excuse me if I don't follow your recommendations to just elect any 'ol Republican. You see, Steve, we have BIG government statists on BOTH sides of the aisle. You locked-on one already... Rudy Giuliani. We will be no better off electing a one-world socialist from the Republican Party, than we would if we elected one from the Democratic Party.

Rudy is PRO-AMNESTY, PRO-OPEN BORDERS and ANTI-GUN. If this is your idea of a conservative, Steve, you have been misinformed.

CONGRESS' UTTER LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY

For 20 years Congress has allowed the illegal immigration to just sort of happen. It's almost as though they're saying, "Well, it's like the weather -- you can't do anything about it."

The problem is that Congress will not do anything about it. They have allowed up to 20 million aliens just to waltz in (or run in) with nary a peep. This includes radicals who wish us death.

Congress is just about set to grant amnesty (I don't care what they call it -- it's still amnesty) to how many millions of them? That will translate into many more millions. The problem will grow exponentially.

I will inform my senators and my representative that they need not expect my vote for them when election time rolls around unless they take a strong, very strong, stand against this takeover. We cannot afford to become another third world country -- and we're well on our way. Just a few more million illegals ----

Wouldn't It be nice
Wouldn't it be nice if (fill in your tagline here).
Of the people I know and work with, 98% do not even read a newspaper or magazine. All their "Knowledge" is gleaned from television. This seems to me to be a sad state of affairs.
I have become convinced that because of public apathy/ignorance, amnesty will be provided to the illegal invaders, just as it was in 1986. Big business wants to drive down labor costs and democrats want socialist votes. It is a win-win situation for them, a lose-lose situation for the average american. After this amnesty instead of 20-30 miliion illegals, it will become 50-60 million. Just smile and press 2 for english, 1 for (you know)

Huddled Masses Alert
Okay, I got bored, and I came up with a bunch of new political jokes. My "challenge" was to take real headlines from TH headlines and make incisive (?) comments on them. I ransacked the "news" articles, the ones nobody reads? You can find my efforts by clicking on my name above. If you don't like them, you can react by sending a $2,000 contribution to Mitt Romeny, who needs it for five trips to Edwards' hair styliest. Here's an example:

"Four Saved from Giant Vat of Fish Feces"
Some liberals will go to any length in their quest for alternative fuels.

Chowda mellon
You forgot one : press three if you U.S. born want to apply for citizenship. Press four if you wish to apply for a job and you don't speak spanish. Of course there WILL be a 2year waiting period unless one of our valuable illegals dies,God forbid. Id say LMAO but its not funny.

June 14, 2007
March on Washington, June 16, March on state capitols. We must let them know we will not roll over for another amnesty.
http://www.lframerica.com/pressarticle101.html

The Money Will Win
The media has proven time and again that advertising wins elections, and money wins advertising. The campaign experts will work for the highest bidder, except, maybe the Clinton Gang, but they have plenty of money. Most politicians have to have all the money they can get to be elected, and, the sad truth is, the rich have largely gotten that way with cheap labor, and no one works cheaper than criminal trespassing invaders. How long before Americans have fewer people vote than Hispanics. Do you think things will be the same when our country is being run by people who moved here because they could not make a far smaller country a good place for them to live? The vast majority of illegal's are uneducated or criminals, which is why they have to sneak in. They would never get in legally, and there is a GOOD reason for turning down the people who get turned down for immigration rights.
Have you noticed the youth of America less willing to work hard? Who mowed your yard when you grew up? Weeded the flower beds? Cleaned up around the house? Who does those things now?
Maybe , instead of griping, we should get out there and raise money from people who would rather be an American than to just be rich. There may be enough of us.

Immigration
Im against open borders too, but I have a little different perspective on it than most.

I have supervised several crews of Mexicans for the last 8-10 yrs.These guys are better citizens than my neighbors, really. No one works harder for the American dollar than they do.
Our Governor here in Okla. just signed into law a bill that makes it a crime to employ illegal. Thats fine, but what they have just done is to place the blame for all these folks that are over here, directly on the small business owner.

Im a conservative, as you can tell by my blog at simpleokie.blogspot.com, but I think President Bush blew it when he didnt do something right after 9/11. If he would have acted then, it wouldnt seem like an attack on Hispanics.

The Dems are going to make hay with this, they already have. We have made 12 million people, pawns in a game that the Republicans are surely the underdogs. By the '08 elections it will have been spun by the media, (the Dems best weapon) as, "Bush and Republicans hate Mexicans".

Yes we need to get these guys paper work done, get them their own social security number. If any have committed a crime, send them back across the border, and keep them out.But lets not make them out to be terrorists.

If they are using up our social services thats not the fault of the guy that hired a good worker. Using social services is reserved for citizens of this country, if you want to use our social services and hospitals, then get your paper work done and pay taxes into it. Then and only then should they be allowed to use our services.Of course the Dems will scream bloody murder if we dont just give away health care.(and yet they want to kill unborn babies at will).

Every one of our the Mexican guys I work with has a visa or is using a social security number, is it now the job of the small business owner to prove the employee that was let into our Country is legal? Or have our tax dollars towards that end been wasted?

Our border agents are fired and jailed for doing a thankless job.

These people are no more invaders than we are. They have a whole lot more in common with conservatives than liberals, we need to find a way to help them, help us.

Any country
that refuses to maintain its security by enforcing its borders is doomed. Plain and simple.

Further, the Constitution mandates it. Article IV, Section 4:

"Section. 4.

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence."

That is the covenant between a state, which has surrendered its autonomy and independence, and the Federal government. They shall be protected from invasion.

Well, what do you call the free flow of illegals over our southern border, from Mexico into the INDIVIDUAL STATES?

The Fed G has guaranteed border security and enforcement to the states, yet refuses to live up to its obligation. The states duck the issue by rightfully pointing out that it's a federal duty and obligation.

Contrary to Tucker's column, this is not an issue that's died away. I would posit that it's only just started really heating up.




It's the President's Job
The laws are already on the books to secure the border, meaning Congress has already delegated this responsibility this responsibility to the Executive.

It doesn't matter who is in Congress or what legislation is passed. The fact of the matter is that the President does not want to secure the border. It is his responsibility and his alone, and I don't know what his reason is, but President Bush flat out refuses to secure the border. No one can blame anyone but him.

Steve is wrong
Again, it does not matter who is in Congress. The President already has the power to enforce the border and he chooses not to. The blame is squarely on the shoulders of the President.

Frigglesnitz is wrong
Again, this is not Congress' fault. No new laws or programs are needed because the President already has the power to secure the border. For the past twenty years the President has passed on his duty. The blame goes directly to the President.

simple okie
You don't say whether the Mexicans you supervised are here illegally or not. Since you refer to them as Mexicans, I take it they are illegal aliens.

Regardless of how hard they work, it does not change the fact that they have no right to be here.

I suggest you are not seeing the big picture. Business owners who hire those who come into our country illegally benefit monetarily from presumed "cheap labor". They obviously are not concerned about the financial and, in some cases, criminal burden of ALL citizens.

Quoting you: "Then and only then should they be allowed to use our services."

No, they have NO legal right to ANY services supported by our taxes. Yet they do receive them, and will continue to have their needs met.

Hospitals, e.g., will not turn away sick people or a pregnant woman. Children born in our country are automatically given U.S. citizenship, despite their parents being here illegally.

It is incredibly stupid for any country to have an open-border, "just walk right in", policy. This administration has done next to nothing to secure our borders, especially after the catastrophe of Sept. 11, 2001,

We've never received a reasonable explanation, and more to the point, some firm action.

Caelestis
The Open Door policy which has spanned too many federal administrations, including the ones in power now, makes my blood boil.

What's behind the refusal to close our borders? It's a legitimate question. Bush is the first one who comes to my mind as one person who shows no evidence of wanting to stop the free flow of Mexicans into the U.S.

I doubt if anyone knows just how many illegal aliens have taken residency here. I see numbers like 11 and 12 million. Who knows where they are and what they're doing?

Frankly, there are plenty of "bleeding hearts" who understand their plight. I agree that they should not have to live in desperate poverty, but what is Vincente Fox doing to improve the economy of his country? Zilch, apparently. He's glad to send his problem citizens across the border...less responsibility on him.

Let the "rich Americanos" take care of them.

This invasion is definitely contributing to the fall of an America we once knew it. Not only are many of the Mexicans here illegally, they have shown a blatant arrogance in their demands for rights. From what I've read, they don't choose to assimilate, and the liberal establishments here, for their own reasons, have kowtowed to Spanish-speaking people in many areas.

It's an old story, I'm sure, but many of us know that our ancestors who came here, through legal means by the way, were not molly-coddled by having a choice of THEIR language or English.

I believe it made sense then and that it does today.

Guess what? Most of us are not wealthy. We're trying to be self-sufficient to the end.

That leads me to anger that our money is often wasted by the governments. Grrrr.

Law? Especially you, Okie.
Either we are a nation of laws (as the political hacks keep telling us) or we are not.

If we are, then all the illegal-alien-invaders must be deported - and the easiest way is to help them to "self-deport" by JAILING those who employ them and by denying them ANY American-taxpayer-funded services.

If we are not, then the invasion will continue. And only God can help us then. Because we know (Duka brothers anyone?) that jihadists will certainly be among the invaders.

Like it or not 2+2 = 4
OK everyone, try to let your mind go to a neutral state. Don't consider who or what the President is. Imagine he is non-descript and has no party affiliation. Now imagine this President, who we don't know anything about, had not attained the office of the President by having the most votes cast for him, but instead was installed into office by the decision of fewer than 10 out of 300 million citizens. Disregard the President's party affiliation and who his friends and familiy are and honestly look at all the things that have and are continuing to take place. If you're a republican and/or a conservative consider what you would think if a democrat had been in the White House the last 6 years. Let me put on my tin foil hat.....almost everything this and several previous administrations have done has been slowly preparing us for the forthcoming North American Union. When you evaluate all the evidence (which I am not going to try to present here due to time and typing skill restraints. Just go to http://www.spp.gov http://www.kcsmartport.com http://www.keeptexasmoving.org http://www.jbs.org/node/3416 ) These are not "nut case" websites. These things are actually occuring right under our nose. Again, whoever you are, consider the actions of the current administration without regard to your loyalty or hatred. I think you will agree......2+2 = 4.

Former_Rep_Never_a_Dem
The North American Union? Absolutely, it is happening. Right in front of our faces. There are resolutions to denounce it in 18 state governments; there is also the same in the U.S House.

Did you check out Medved's current article? Well, the article itself is horrible, but lots of good comments afterwards.

Americans had better wake up and soon.

Caelestis
I agree that the lack of enforcing our immigration laws is the President's fault, rather than Congress. Congress makes the law; the Executive branch executes the law. Or, they are supposed to anyway. Congress however does have it within their purview to censure the President; they also could stop passing unconstitutional pieces of garbage such as giving illegal aliens social security and other handouts. I just love how they are so free with OUR dang money.

50 to 80 million
Phil Brennan on http://www.newsmax.com says 25% - yes, a QUARTER! - of our population is here illigaly.
10 to 12 million illegals have stolen and use our SS numbers (IRS knows who and where, but NOT inform) - and many, many more work for cash.


This is NOT immigration

Migration is a movement of people from one place to another. Immigration is citizens of one country applying for legal entry to another country with the intent to become a citizen of that country. The debate is not about immigration at all. It's about moving the cheap labor here. Old fashioned notions like citizenship and borders get in the way of that. Bush is telling us illegal aliens do not want to be Americans, they just want to work here. The real answer is for foreigners to clean up their own countries so they do not need to flee them. Citizens of other countries do not have any right to "migrate" into our country without permission. If America announces to the world, "We can't stop you, so come on in", with another amnesty, the deluge will be overwhelming. If 3,000 a day didn't get your attention, then wait until it's 10,000 a day. We cannot sustain this influx and survive as a nation. We must speak up and speak to each other about this and not let false claims of racism or bigotry be used to intimidate us into silent assent. America is not Congress' to give away. America belongs to We The People.

They have purposely let the situation get worse to try to force us into another amnesty/guestworker/regularization, whatever euphamism it is this week. The media, unions, both parties, churches, and mostly the corrupt corporations employing them are working to undermine our sovereignty as a nation and our rule of law.

Until very recently there was practically NO enforcement.
And the numbers are much higher than 8-10 million. We are being purposely misled. Most of what you hear about illegal aliens is propaganda to get us to give up our country without a fight. In 1986 we were told it was less than 1 million, turned out to be 3.6 million getting amnesty, a few of them were involved in bombing the WTC in 1993. This time we're being told 10 million, it is more like 20-30 million. Enforcement under Clinton was insufficient but looked robust compared to this administration. We must tell the cheap labor importers NO! in no uncertain terms.

HUNTER 2008
Duncan Hunter is the only candidate in the race who has the courage to put American citizens first. Everyone else is somewhere between outright pandering to the illegals with amnesty and vague promises of tighter border security. At CPAC he pledged to pardon our border patrol agents currently imprisoned for doing their jobs. He pledged to build the fence like they have in San Diego. It has cut crossings by over 90%. And he wants to do our China trade differently. Tremendous speech, unfortunately not many saw it. A review is here:

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?id=23212


http://www.gohunter08.com

The answer is not MORE government
The answer is to reinstate our Constitution as the rule of law. For too long, we have allowed our public servants to overstep their constitutional boundaries.

"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution ... or have failed their purpose ... or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is 'needed' before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should be attacked for neglecting my constituents' 'interests,' I shall reply that I was informed that their main interest is liberty, and in that cause I am doing the very best I can."
- Barry Goldwater

oops
I think I need to go back to bed. Sorry folks, another typo.

The answer is to reinstate our Constitution *and* the rule of law.

willful neglect of the law
The powers that be have willfully allowed the ILLEGAL aliens to flood into America because each part of the Conspiracy Of Evil seeks to use them for selfish reasons antithetical and inimical to the best socio-economic interests of America. Amazingly, every time this topic comes up, there is about a 90% consensus among TH posters (which is otherwise unprecedented)... the other 105 are typically gadfly trolls. Virginia Patriot speaks just below with customary telling wisdom-- I also support Duncan Hunter's campaign, because he has matched deeds with rhetoric about stopping the ILLEGAL alien tsunami.

Among many disingenuous, red herring myths about ILLEGALS is that opposition to them is racist/xenophobic. Actually, a majority of legal latino Americans actually supports various sanctions... here is some additional demythologizing in my concurrent post, replete with links:

************************************************
Scamnesty: The Ultimate Largesse

Be afraid-- be VERY AFRAID! Congress, pushed relentlessly by the Conpiracy Of Evil, is poised to create a path to Scamnesty for 12-20 million ILLEGAL aliens. With "chain migration," that will mean MANY MORE millions of indigent poor-- and the permanent morphing of America into an entitlement government welfare state. The public trough will become a voracious, inexorable black hole devouring all that has made America great.

If you listen to the pro-ILLEGAL alien arguments by members of the Conspiracy Of Evil, they are like low-hangin' fruit to refute:

1) Disingenuous premises:
The "undocumented workers" are generally hard working, good people who simply want to feed their families and do those jobs that Americans won't do that America must have done.

Reality Check:
ILLEGALS are too often both poor and undereducated-- a formula for DISASTER if they are allowed to naturalize. We are simply allowing corrupt Mexico to dump its welfare problems on America. ILLEGALS drive down wages, and they ARE taking good jobs-- America does not save at all! A relative few hoteliers, contractors, meat processors, and other law-breaking employers milk them for lesser wages, then the TAXPAYERS GET STUCK with the crimes, barrio blight, drugs, gangs, sullied schools, ethnocentricity, and welfare costs. Bilingual education is a scam and an abysmal failure. ILLEGALS are at least 3x as likely as legal residents to be incarcerated for serious crimes:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml
http://www.theamericanresistance.com/articles/art2004jan04.html
http://www.amren.com/Reports/Hispanics/HispanicsReport.htm

2) We should respect their "rights" and put those who have a job on a path to citizenship and require the payment of back taxes, learning English, and paying a $2,000 fine.

Truth Check--
HOGWASH! We owe them NOTHING! NO THING! We need to require a tamper-proof I.D. card ASAP for ANY non-citizen to function here period-- to work, get a license, attend school, rent an apt., pass go, etc. They will not really build the wall or otherwise crack down on employers-- the card radiates the cancer at its starting point. Make ILLEGALS repatriate to apply for it, then vet them thoroughly to see who might come back on an INTERIM basis to work. There should be NO CONNECTION WHATSOEVER between having been here ILLEGALLY and later gaining citizenship. Token fines and back taxes are a farce! Some would charge them a $2,000 fee when their ANNUAL cost to taxpayers (per Heritage) will be $22k just in net govt. services used alone for a family headed by an uneducated, poor ILLEGAL?!?!

Why is this such a vexing problem? Because different powerful users with ulterior agendas salivate over ILLEGALS --> the PC "elite" left sees poor, malleable voters (40 acres and a mule redux) who will assure big entitlement government for the Big Brother elites to control; miscreant employers see cheap labor that the taxpayers are forced to subsidize; the scandal-plagued Catholic Church sees replacement contributors; self-serving national pols see hispanic votes in key states; the well-heeled like their cheap domestic help-- and THEIR children will not have their private schools ruined by them; finally the latino groups quite simply indubitably seek the Reconquista-- the morphing of America into Mexicomerica.

Middle America MUST unite and stop Scamnesty which is again pending in Congress. You can learn more and/or get involved to save America at the sites below. First, an easy way to reach the OFFICIAL contact info for your Senators and Representatives to oppose the pending Scamnesty Bills:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

BOOKMARK IT AND BARK AT THEM OFTEN! It IS EASY-- just a few clicks!!!

Some say that it does no good to contact Congress... don't believe it! Middle Americans like you derailed Kennedy-McQuisling Scamnesty in the House last year! Congressman Peter King said he had NEVER seen such a revolt in the heartland in his many years in congress. BUT the Conspiracy Of Evil is determined to cram ILLEGALS down America's throats, so we MUST BE RELENTLESS in expressing our righteous indignation to stop Scamnesty. We won the first battle, but we MUST NOT LOSE THE WAR! Congressional staffers track the feedback... I get letters and e-mails back from Congresspersons who do not even represent me addressing my specific concerns. YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

Other good sites are below... the first one is GREAT -- a well-organized group trying to save America from myopia... it has prepared e-mails addressing proposed legislation you can customize and/or just send to your elected representatives!:

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20530
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=opposeamnesty&s_src=K0613&s_subsrc=olk0604&printer_friendly=1
http://www.immigrationcontrol.com/
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back906.html
http://www.heritage.org/research/immigration/
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back704.html
http://pewhispanic.org/reports/middecade/
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200701/NAT20070110a.html

FOLKS, THE VERY SURVIVAL OF THE AMERICAN HERITAGE, RULE OF LAW, CULTURE, COMMON LANGUAGE, SOCIO-ECONOMIC STABILITY-- INDEED THE AMERICAN WAY IF LIFE ITSELF-- ARE IN DIRE JEOPARDY!

That "cheap" labor is nothing of the sort! Per Heritage, EACH household headed by an undereducated, ILLEGAL alien will cost taxpayers $22k a year in deficit taxes versus services used alone! And that is just the tip of the iceberg of their total costs (crime control, enervated schools, balkanized barrios)! GET INVOLVED TO STOP THE INVASION NOW FOLKS-- BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE! AMERICA WOULD BE A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE!
______________________________________________

other perspectives:
http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/
http://www.libertygunrights.com/NAUFactSheet.pdf
http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/NAU/
http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/amnesty/index.shtml
http://www.eagleforum.org/topics/immigration/index.shtml


Over my Dead Body
Time to stop debating this. The evidence is clear that they mean to take your country from you. As for me it will be over my DEAD BODY.

Conservatives????????
Duncan Hunter is not the only congressman speaking up on the invasion. Tom Tancredo has fought long and hard on this issue.Even Libertarian Ron Paul has come around. As to how we should elect conservatives to stem this tide, I'll remind you that Saint Reagan let in 3.5 million in the 80's and that Bush is also supposed to be a conservative as are the congressmen and senators who have been bought and paid for by agribusiness and the AMA. The last president who had the cajones to stand up to this crowd of self indulgent "entrepeneurs" who put their wallets ahead of their country was Dwight Eisenhower, a man maligned by both the left and the right. Maybe we need a little less uber partisanship and a little more common sense as exhibited by the General.I still like Ike!!

NO NATIONAL ID CARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The mechanism exists right now to identify illegal aliens. It has to do with the current counterfeiting of existing forms of identification. Some states use tamper-resistant paper, including watermarks and special ink, to print their birth certificates; some do not. The ones that do not, need to start doing it. Now, to Social Security numbers... Right now, the same number is being used for thousands and thousands of different people. Illegally of course, but it is still being done. It is quite easy to stop this process, as a database of these numbers does exist. All an employer has to do is check to see if the number is a valid one and whether it is being used for numerous people. This ability exists right now.

We do not need a National ID card. The claim that this would apply only to foreigners is a complete and utter misstatement of fact.

The REAL ID Act was passed some time ago and was planned to go into effect for AMERICANS in 2008. This National ID card will be associated with various biometrics on US, all stored in a National Database. Do you not see the problem here? If you think for one minute that this type of thing has any resemblance to a free society, you should think about it some more.


Ron Paul on ILLEGAL ALIENS

Border Security and Immigration Reform

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.

2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.

3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.

4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.

5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.

6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

reply to Pete
We know that Tancredo and Dr. Ron Paul have their minds right on ILLEGALS, but Hunter would seem to be the most viable among the 3... Tancredo comes across as too stridently one-issue, but his voice is certainly welcome. Yes, IKE obeyed the law and his oath of office... Reagan got snookered by the Kennedy-McQuisling ilk who winked and promised enforcement in exchange for amnesty-- the same purveyors of evil are at it again in Congress right now.

Agree that many conservatives are in the pockets of the pro-ILLEGAL forces, as I detail in my long screed below... the perilous, toxic dilemma of ILLEGALS is that they offer money and power to disparate influential groups-- the business/Chamber lobby is their most important advocate... it is OK with them if Middle America eats the immense costs so that a relative handful of new slave owners (effectively) can enrich themselves.

The War on Illegal Aliens
Obviously, illegal aliens don't want to live in their own country; they want to live in America, the best country in the world.

I say, o.k., let's let them come here and live in New England (ME, MA, VT, NH, CT) and New York City.

That way, the northeast libs (who love illegal aliens) will have plenty of 'em to feel superior to.

I propose the Illegal Alien Relocation Act of 2007: All illegal aliens caught inside the borders of the US wiil be immendiately sent to New England and NYC. Any illegal found leaving that area will be shot.


reply to lodestar
Yes, Hunter appears strong on immigration, but he seems to believe that it is quite alright to sponsor unconstitutional and totalitarian pieces of legislation to carry out his plans.

We were warned by our Founders, never to sacrifice liberty for security, because we would end up with NEITHER. Perhaps we should all think about that for a minute.

I much prefer a Constitutionalist who takes a very strong stance against illegal aliens, but also understands the importance of limited government and individual liberty. That man is Dr. Ron Paul.

The answer to a problem that government CAUSED, is never to add MORE GOVERNMENT.

simple okie, Brian R
simple okie: You're right, the immigration bill places blame squarely on the shoulders of the people responsible for these illegals being here.
No jobs, no illegals. Ipso facto.
If you are a small businessman, bite the bullet and hire an American. These people are NOT "honest", "decent" or any of the other crap uttered by the president. They are criminals who broke our laws when they entered the country illegally; they broke our laws when they obtained stolen, fake or forged identification; they break our laws daily when they get into their uninsured pickup and drive to the local cantina to get soused so they can break our laws by driving DUI and possibly killing someone in a DUI related traffic mishap. These people are NOT here for "Jobs no American will do." More of the president's crap. When I went into construction years ago it was Americans doing the jobs. Today it is almost totally illegals. Because of the greed of the small business owners who allowed the illegals to STEAL the jobs from Americans by living 8-10 to an apartment, lying about number of dependents, not bothering with auto insurance, not having mortgage payments, health insurance, or many of the other expenses the American worker you let go had to deal with.
And another thing, these illegals further become criminal when they go purchase a firearm, usually a 9mm semi-auto pistol. You hire 'em, I had to live with 'em and let me tell you, in the barrio, Saturday night, May 5, Dec 31 sounds like Tet. I, too, live in Oklahoma. Southwestern OK and I moved here from the DFW area just to get away from the crime and crap, a lot of which is caused by the illegals you hire.

Brian R
If the Federal Gov't refuses to protect our borders, how the he11 can they prosecute citizens who go to the border armed to protect the country from an invasion?
If the Mexican Army came across the border would they arrest and prosecute Americans who resisted?
What is the difference between the Mexican Army invading us and 12-20 Million Mexicans invading us. Other than the 12-20 Million don't arm themselves until they have crossed the river.....

DavidMac
LOL. I think we ought to send them to Washington D.C., because it is they who are encouraging the invasion of our country.

Pretty Much on Track
I think most of the comments are pretty much on track. Unfortunately, there is not much payoff for either the Democrats or the Republicans in Congress to do much on this issue.

Instead of moaning on this blog, why not write a letter to your Congressman and Senators and tell them that you want the borders sealed NOW? They need to know that you will be watching them personally for some effective action. Without signs of action, promise to do all in your power to see them an "EX" congressman. A few hundred letters, all originally written, without any sign of an organized campaign or petition, will get the attention of any Congressman. I know, since I worked for a time on the Hill -- but I since repented!!
Blessings........

Brutus
Shakespeare had Brutus say, "The evil men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones." Ronald Reagan made a misguided move by his amnesty of 3.5 million lawbreaking invaders. ( I wonder who may have 'advised' him to take this "Magnaminous" measure.) His other mistake is to have let himself be talked into accepting the Wimp for VP. But that is all past.
Today we are faced with what has ensued because of those two faulty decisions.

Duncan Hunter has fought this problem since the early '90's, at least. Others may inveigh, but do not act. Hunter 'built' that double fence between San Ysidro and Tijuana. Hunter authored the bill for its enlargement across the Southern borders of Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. Bush signed it into law. He has not implemented its provisions. He is, at best, a Rogue President.
The two houses of Congress are, in the majority, regardless of party, inept and/or corrupt. Our country is being fleeced by hordes of invaders, who gather at Western Union stations to send money South of The Border. Duncan Hunter has the intestinal fortitude and good sense to stand alone as a DOer on this VITAL issue. National Life or Death rides on it. He is our only hope, as President, correction of this cancerous growth. His election will be a Bell In The Night to a Deadhead Congress that they must give its constituents what they demand: A return to lawfulness on this matter.

By the way
By the way, Phyllis Schlafly wrote me that Duncan Hunter "was the sensation of" that CPAC meeting Virginia Patriot mentions, and that he is "right on the issues". I learned years ago that she is one American who proved that a seemingly lost fight is far from over as long as the size of the fight in the combatant is large enough. Duncan Hunter's battle for the Presidency can be won, especially when he has the continuing support of Patriots like the one from The Old Dominion. I hope all those who comment here will watch the Republican debate from Columbia, SC on Tuesday.

By the way,too, I was deeply insulted and angered by the comment reported from Thompson, F.'s speech at the Lincoln Club, to the effect that he doesn't "think that many are bothered by the 12 million or so who are already here".
Hunter-Palin, 2008

Lodestar
Lodestar, thanks for summing up the necessary fact.

Buck: Yeeeeaaahhh
Okay. We're on the same side in this issue. Maybe you misinterpreted my comment?

Did you mean to direct your comment to someone else?

I don't get it.


Jim
Good idea.

Integration with the EU???
Hey boys and girls, did you see this?

Bush OKs 'integration' with European Union
Congress never asked about new obligation

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55584

Liberty
The Democrats have 84 DSA members in the House, Pelosi, Murtha & Reid among them and several in the Senate.
The DSA open border policy would preclude any action on their part unless we held a gun to their heads.
GUN?
A KSFO radio Talk Show Host named Melanie Morgan started a recall campaign that unseated a California Govenor.
There are talk show hosts all over the country that are easy to e-mail.
Sending one an e-mail urging them to start a recall campaign over the border issue and sending a copy of it to your Representative might feel like a gun to him if he got very many.

That would either close the border or put H.R 3302 on fast track!
That border should be closed instantly even if we have to mine it.
The open border kills more American civilians than the war in Iraq kills soldiers!
http://www.newsmax.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2007/3/15/124229.shtml

Social Security is the problem
Until social security is reformed, Congress isn't going to listen to us about immigration. They need not just the 12-20 million here, they believe, but another 67-100 million to replace the 78 million workers leaving the work force over the next 2 decades and for job growth.

It isn't about wages, though certainly business will end up with large pool of workers keeping wages lower, it is about keeping the number of workers to retirees at 3 to 1 or higher.

The Government Accounting Office, itself, puts the unfunded liability at $50 trillion and $400,000 for every full time worker in America. Chairman Bernanke testified to Congress that doubling immigration won't fix the problem so Congress wil quadruple it or more. What they won't do is reform social security because that would cost them votes for the type of reform it would take.

Yet, the people are screaming for them to seal the borders. To get that done requires cooperations between the parties and one won't yield if they don't get what they want and the other won't yield if they don't get what they want on the "amnesty" or "no amnesty" end of it or in the definition of "guest worker" or "path to citizenship."

So, since they need more people, they believe, then don't seal the border and let them sneak in until they do get a bill that raises the quota's for legal immigration.

It is nuts but, it is tied to social security's huge problem the 78 million retiring is creating.

Old Man
I very rarely disagree with you as you know, but this time I do.

I think there is more than enough evidence that our borders are not being secured because we are being driven into a North American Union. Heck, they've even talked about the new currency being planned for us on CNBC. It is called the Amero. Americans are blissfully ignorant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98

MyOpine
Great idea.

Old Man
Consider who the people are who block any attempt to reform SSI and add the following info.
http://www.dsausa.org/LatestNews/2006/immigrant%20rights.html

And the Representatives responsible;
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44701

I believe our Constitution states quite clearly that we shall have a Republican form of Government.
I could not find anything in our Constitution that allows a Communist Shadow Government within our Government.
America can't function correctly until this conflict of interest is removed.

Social Security
Controling our borders is "social security" for everyone, not just we elderly. They are eating up our resources, and in case you haven't heard, our Social Security. They will be able to draw Social Security, even if they go back to Mexico.

We must do something, because it is an invasion
and our government is letting it happen. And by doing nothing, is incouraging it.

Mexicans are here breaking our laws, and making demands. Burning our flag, and throwing rock at our border patrol.

This whole thing just makes me so angry, I can't describe it!!!!!!!!! And I feel so helpless. I've called, emailed and faxed the White House, and my Senators. Now just sit and wait?


Should have spelled
Encouraging,not incouraging.

CAELESTIS AND THE PRESIDENT'S INACTION

Caelestis, thank you for the info. I knew that Congress is going to begin -- anew -- talking about what to do about the illegals here already, and what to do about securing the border. I knew that a while back they had authorized a few million dollars to build the fence, along with a few electronic gadgets that were to help in detecting illegals' invasion. (Nothing to stop them -- just detect them.)

If it is the President's job to see that our borders are secure, he has obviously not performed as he should have.

Personally, I don't care who authorizes it or debates it or wrings hands about it, etc., as long as something is d-o-n-e about it.

If it keeps up as it has kept up in the past, there will soon come a time when a great many of us might go sneaking across the border into Mexico -- or Canada. Why? Because there will be nothing here. This will not be the land of opportunity. This will not be the promised land. This will not be a place for the "American Dream." Instead, it will be an American nightmare -- as it's beginning to be anyway.

Somebody better do something -- and fast. I don't believe the President or Congress has any idea at all how angry so many of us "commoners" are about the illegal alien problem.

lodestar is right, keep it up
Relentless e-mail, phone calls, and letters are having the desired effect. The responses I have gotten from Sen. Warner went from his proud support of S.2611 last June to barely mentioning its failure in the most recent one. They must hear from us, frequently.

Frigglesnitz
If you were to sneak over the border into Mexico and get caught trying to get a job you would learn all about Mexican border enforcement.
They would not simply deport you like we do.
Unless you had someone here wealthy enough to pay the ransom like fine, you would spend time in a Mexican prison.
There is no free lunch in Mexican prisons, you earn your keep so you can expect to learn a trade, like weaving hammocs, etc.
ONLY AMERICA LETS PEOPLE IGNORE BORDERS!

Brian R
Yeah the main body of the post was for someone else. The last paragraph was for you. More question than statement.

social security and shadow government
I think there is more than enough evidence that our borders are not being secured because we are being driven into a North American Union. Heck, they've even talked about the new currency being planned for us on CNBC. It is called the Amero. Americans are blissfully ignorant.
========================

Social Security and shadow government is all part of socialism. You are correct about the currency talk and the NA "Community." The shadow government is all the agreements we made, (U.N., WTO, NAFTA, etc.) where we agreed to let international ruling bodies tell us what we can and can't do. That loss of sovereignty and "shadow government" was obvious when this President, right or wrong, tried to protect steel workers. He was quickly informed the U.S. would be sanctioned and fined and he backed off.

Social Security depends, already on illegals for funding.
quote:
Last year, contributions by illegal immigrants made up about 10 percent of the Social Security surplus – the difference between what the system takes in and what it doles out.

According to a recent story in The New York Times, the numbers are startling. But they help explain why the U.S. government has tolerated illegal immigration for so long.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050410/
news_mz1e10ruben.html
==========================
They are paying in the "surplus." Without that surplus we would already drawing the trust fund down (cashing in phony bonds that then have to be paid by us tax payers)

To show how "blind" the social security admin is, it takes about 9 months to let an employer know a social security number is bad even though the number is 000-00-0000

quote:
Need a SS number? Use 000-00-0000, 9 million other people have.




If you're an illegal or fugitive you can use a social security number of 000-00-0000 and the federal government won't care. - That's because the current law doesn't demand much. So long as the Social Security card looks legitimate, an employer is allowed to accept it.

The fake doesn't even have to be that good. A 2005 report by the federal Government Accountability Office found that between 1985 and 2000, 9 million people got hired using this Social Security number: 000-00-0000.

The report also found 3.5 million instances where a company had several employees using the same Social Security number.

The Social Security Administration collected $14.5 billion between 1985 and 2000 from invalid SS numbers (including almost 9 million filings under Social Security number 000-00-0000).
http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2006/06/71686.html
=============================
Think about it, 9 mo. to let an employer know his employee has a bad number when that number is 000-00-000.

They have to have that money to keep social security funded and legal immigration quotas weren't high enough and "legally" increasing the number (because workers would complain about low wages due to a large labor pool), they did it the "back door" way.

It is also why even though they promised to build a fence and put guards on the border, the illegals keep coming. It is why they don't crack down on employers. It is why the allow illegal immigrants to buy a home with a government backed loan with just a TID instead of a SS number. It is why they allow anchor babies. They want citizens anyway they can get them to keep workers to retirees at 3 to 1.

When I asked Rep. Flake at a meeting if the 67-100 million number was accurate and necessary to save social security he said, "we need a lot." When I asked him about Bernanke's statement that doubling immigration wouldn't be enough to save social security, he said, "we need more."

Here is what Bernanke had said that I was asking him about.

quote:
but higher wages also imply increased Social Security benefits, as those benefits are tied to wages. Higher incomes also tend to increase the demand for medical services so that, indirectly, higher incomes may also increase federal health expenditures. Increased rates of immigration could raise growth by raising the growth rate of the labor force. However, economists who have looked at the issue have found that even a doubling in the rate of immigration to the United States, from about 1 million to 2 million immigrants per year, would not significantly reduce the federal government's fiscal imbalance.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/testimony
/2007/20070228/default.htm
================================

So there solution is to quadruple it, not just double it. But, the point is, that immigration is their solution to social security and apparently Medicare.

One thing Rep. Flake admitted was that the States will bear the bulk of the burden for the cost of immigration and the 1/3 more hospitals, schools, roads, prisons, government services, etc. that will be needed with another 100 million people. But, hey, who cares if the states go bankrupt as long as the feds can save social security and Medicare.

Since voters don't support reform like will be needed, bring on the illegals AND the legal immigrants but, save social security and Medicare. NUTS! What a bunch of either idiots or people too wimpy to do what this nation needs even if they don't get re-elected.

me
You said: “Time to stop debating this. The evidence is clear that they mean to take your country from you. As for me it will be over my DEAD BODY.”

Do you remember the man who stood in front of the column of tanks at Tiananmen Square in 1989? The tank advanced within inches of the man in an effort to intimidate him, but he refused to budge. Eventually, the man won the battle and the tanks backed off, but we all know what happened later. The government shot 30,000 protesting citizens, killing 2600, and warned that more would be shot if they dare to protest.

In our immigration debate, you are that man in front of the tank. The government is determined to run over you with “comprehensive immigration reform”, amnesty by any other name. They hear your voice loud and clear, but like the man at Tiananmen Square, you are but one man. They simply ignore you, while the rest of the apathetic population watches American Idol. Bush gets his way, and America is dead as we know it.

We need more people with your fighting spirit to confront Bush and Congress. One person cannot do it alone. The outcome at Tiananmen Square would have been alot different if a million people had stood where that one man was standing. That is what we need to defeat this treasonous president.

Old Man
Like you said, it would make more sense to reform the system. SSI was never intended as Welfare but drug addicts & drunks are considered disabled and get FULL benefits!
What will happen when Mexico runs out of Mexicans?

Make you wonder how many employers just pocket the SSI & witholding tax?
What % of Illegals do you guess would file a Tax return?

Personal accounts earning interest that you can contribute to and make into a real retirement plan would be realistic.
Where company pensions are negotiated as a cost benefit, cents per hour, the money could be added to the SSI account so you would not loose it by changing jobs.
You could assign it to go into your wife's or children's retirement account in the event of death.
We would not need any Mexicans for that.

Sam
Everything you said about Romney, in a sarcastic context, may possibly be right. We don't know at this point. I am willing to listen and make a decision later. But, what I have seen so far is a man who waqs elected governor by the people of the most liberal state in the country. Shortly after announcing his candidacy for president, he had a change of heart and became pro-life. Then, suddenly he became a pro-gun person and joined the NRA. Sounds alot like another Massachusetts man who ran for president in 2004, walking around in hunting fatigues. I don't know about you, but I don't take too kindly to that kind of deception.

Sam
Jeb Bush is done in politics, at least on the national stage. His father was the "kinder, gentler" president. His brother is the "compassionate conservative" president. Both had disdain for the base and viewed conservatives as an obstacle to everything they wanted to accomplish. Conservatives are not stupid enough, knock on wood, to fall for another Bush.

Constitution?
Many countries such as Australia whose constitution is nowhere near ours at least "does not have the illegal immigration deal that we have". So why can't the representatives and OUR SERVANTS follow ours.
====================
Because they won't be re-elected if they do.

Ron Paul is the only candidate running on the Constitution and you see how much support he is getting outside the few of us on both sides in forums like this. The Constitution allowed for a state to be as liberal or as conservative as the state wanted to be. "We the people" were then free to choose the society we would be the most close to in ideology.

But, both parties are moving us to "one world government." One just has different reasons than the other. Neither party, however, will be elected if they don't run on their party's agenda and run on the Constitution instead until voters realize that it is the only hope for this nation.

We have to hit bottom first, like all the nations in fast growth now, did. Until voters realize that we can't have all the goodies and a "nanny" government whether is is a "nanny" for corporations, wealthy, or workers, we will continue this decline.

Returning to the Constitution is not popular in either party's voting block because they have become too dependent on "centralized" power and wealth redistribution to elect anybody running on the Constitution.

The best President we had, I believe, was a Democrat who refused to increase government spending to end a recession and fought the money boys to keep us on a gold standard.

Grover Cleveland
quote:
# Officeholders are the agents of the people, not their masters.
# In the discharge of my official duty I shall endeavor to be guided by a just and unstrained construction of the Constitution, a careful observance of the distinction between the powers granted to the Federal Government and those reserved to the states or to the people, and by a cautious appreciation of those functions which by the Constitution and laws have been especially assigned to the executive branch.
# I shall to the best of my ability and within my sphere of duty preserve the Constitution by loyally protecting every grant of Federal power it contains, by defending all its restraints when attacked by impatience and restlessness, and by enforcing its limitations and reservations in favor of the States and of the people.
snip--------------------
# Our citizens have the right to protection from the incompetency of public employees...
# Every citizen owes to the country a vigilant watch and close scrutiny of its public servants and affairs and a reasonable estimate of their fidelity and usefulness...this is the price of our liberty and the inspiration of our faith in the Republic.
# It is the responsibility of the citizens to support their government. It is not the responsibility of the government to support its citizens.
# Once the coffers of the general government are opened to the public, there will be no shutting them again.
http://www.mises.org/story/1129
============================

There used to be a time when Democrats were for the people and the Constitution but that ended with the socialist policies of FDR. For awhile the Republicans fought against big government, loss of our rights to have our own societies in each state, but now they are moving us to a "one world government" just as fast as Democrats. Both parties are supporting the coming amnesty and immigration of 100 million more people that will require 1/3 more of everything and we already are graded "C" on some infrastructure, "D" on most and worse on a little.

Good luck America. Soon, in a decade or so, the standard of living will be higher in Singapore than here. Hong Kong is already number 1 in Economic freedom (China 120 or so) and the U.S. is down to 9th. Without economic freedom, as unfair as that can be, business leaves and goes to where it gets a better deal, especially today where shipping, internet, air travel, etc. make the world so much smaller.

India now has 300 million middle class consumers and China about 200 million and growing about 50 million a year. Why does a business need to be here and sell to 150-200 million middle-class when they can sell to 500 million there? Why invest in business here with Sarbanes Oxely when you can go there and have low taxes AND low compliance costs letting you keep more of your profits.

Fair? Heck no, it isn't fair but if you were a business and could sell to 500 million middle-class AND keep more of your profits, and you had an obligation to the people like you and me with mutual funds that own stock in the company, you'd leave too or risk having the company's stock sold off and going out of business because you wouldn't be able to compete with the international funds that own and invest in those foreign competitors.

There is no way to put the genie back in the bottle until we hit bottom and voters decide we need to go back to the Constitution. Remember that when Grover Cleveland was President in 1893, the Bill of Rights didn't apply and weren't applied to the states and the U.S. Government was blocked by the Constitution from social and moral legislation such as social security, Medicare, welfare, dept. of education, etc.

Voters won't like it but, going back to the concept of our founders, while not fair, was certainly better in the long run. Each state had the right to have a social security policy, Medicare policy, and of course, already ran education and other social programs.

Congress won't change until voters change.

Buck: Got it
Well, you're right, of course. If citizens or local law enforcement want to take it upon themselves to enforce extant law, particularly when the Feds won't do ot, they absolutely have the right to do so, and should shame the Bush administration into unburying its nose from the Mexican butt and get on the stick.

There's nothing precluding local LE from doing so, and they can also prosecute on the basis of violation of Federal statute. If the Fed prosecutors want to take jurisdiction after that they ca, but the locals can also prosecute.

Further, citizens have the right to perform citizens' arrests. That whole other nonsense is simply the administration and the government trying to make the whole thing disappear as an issue, and is a load of cr@p.


Old guy
while I usually agree with some of your posts, I gotta disagree on the social security problem. If, when we had a surpluss in the accounts, which we did a few years back, They had kept it in the account instead of using it for the general fund we wouldn't be having this conversation about social security. See, The government, in its infinite wisdom, set the program up so that anything over the amount needed each year would go into the general fund. Now I don't know about you sir but that isn't looking to the future to me.

Citizen arrest?
Further, citizens have the right to perform citizens' arrests.

=====================

Can you afford the law suits. The government will support you getting sued and even if you are right, can you afford to spend years in a suit?

The government even prosecutes border agents doing their legal job. Do you really think they will let the average citizen stand in their way. You'll probably get audited by the IRS at the least.

Old Man
I'm a licensed PI, and have performed numerous citizen's arrests in my life. No problema.

Your panic is unfounded. Further, let me remind you of the Burke quote to the effect that all that's necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.


Sam
Its an iron clad fact that about 15 years ago and back they were taking in more dollars than they were paying out. that is how the leaches in washington who until recent history didn't pay a cent into the fund but were able to collect. They were not the only ones either. But The excess (if you don't like the word surplus) was re-directed to the general fund.

Stick a fork in Washington,
We are done! The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), of which I am a member, has fallen prey to the pro-illegal immigration lobby. Jeff Martin, a spokesman for FAIR, was on Fox News this afternoon. While making his point on illegal aliens, he started out saying “Illigal a….immigrants…” He was actually afraid to say the word “aliens”. I have predicted this will happen, because the liberal media has been chastising anyone calling them for what they are, illegal aliens. The media is brainwashing the viewers into using the phrase “undocumented workers”. That’s an attempt to humanize them and make people forget that they are criminals.

FAIR is the last people I would expect to cave. I am ashamed to be a member. They will not get another dime from me.

Frigglesnitz
"Somebody better do something -- and fast. I don't believe the President or Congress has any idea at all how angry so many of us "commoners" are about the illegal alien problem."

Oh, I think they do. Furthermore, I think they have made plans for it. Right now, people seem to think the Patriot Act, Military Commissions bill, Defense Authorization Act (p.s. it wasn't all about defense-- read it) are all for some foreigners or terrorists. By the way, anyone hear anymore about those U.S. prison camps that we funded Halliburton to build some time back?

I don't think they care what we think anymore; they are sprinting towards their end goal now. We are heading into world government, folks. We will first take a short stop in a North American Union.

By the way Brian... about your quote. Evil flourishes when good men do nothing. Exactly. Not enough were willing to open their eyes. That still is the case. Only thing is, we are running out of time.


Citizen arrest and S.S.
I was referring to arresting illegal aliens, not someone who is committing a burglary or theft or assault.

With even our police orded to not check for the citizenship of people and having to overlook illegal aliens, I believe groups like the ACLU will file suits against anyone who does more than report a person they suspect of being illegal.

With citizen arrest, you have to have evidence of a crime, just like the police. "Suspecting" someone of being illegal isn't enough and you don't have a legal right to demand they show you their "papers." The protection being afforded to illegal aliens is huge in some communities. You would be considered the "enemy" by the government in those communities and when you took that illegal alien to the authorities, in those communities, you would probably find yourself in jail for it.

I think you underestimate the protection being given the illegal aliens in many "sanctuary" communities.

Re: Trust fund.

The money has to be invested in something. The system from the beginning was intended to morph into an "annuity" system. The inflows were never enough to create a trust fund large enough to give the returns intended.

The problem was what to invest in that would be safe. Government bonds was the answer, under socialism. It also tells me they never intended to get out of debt. If we were out of debt, what would the fund then invest in.

However, the fund does receive and interest payment and just like any re-investment plan in the private sector that won't be used until retirement, the interest is immediately re-invested (loaned in this case to the government). The interest rate is set by law and 11 times we have had shortfalls and bonds were cashed.

While this is all done with accounting entries, 11 times it was done. We didn't have enough money come in for the payments required to social security recipients and the general fund had to pay the S.S. people back some of the money they had borrowed. Then they raised taxes (22 times) and grew the trust fund again.

The trust fund is like a bank where you go and open a savings account and they pay you 5%. You then ask the bank where they will get the money for the interest. From loans to home owners? From loans to businesses starting up? To people buying cars?

NO! No! No!, they answer. Well, then where. The bank then tells you they will get the 5% from the money they charge you in bank fees (taxes). So, you end up paying yourself the interest and the bank fees above that level. It is the worst investment possible but, on paper, it looks like you make 5%. That is how social security's trust fund works.

Each month the workers have to send in enough to pay all retirees plus a little more that is loaned out a the legislated rate. The real problem is coming when 78 million retire. Because of death, the total will be about 71 million in a few years (now in the 40 some million range). Because it takes 3 workers for each retiree under current tax rates, that means we will need 210 million workers when we have 71 million drawing from it. (not sure if the 71 million is spouse included or just the number drawing checks)

However, we only have 124 million in the private sector that have to pay in enough for the 22 million government workers. There are 11 million in the Thrift savings plan that aren't in social security. Most don't pay into it nor draw from it as they were in that type of plan when S.S. became mandatory and were given a choice to stay in their plan or not. State or local gov. is one of the groups and some other teacher or railroad pension plans I believe, were exempted. (not totally up on which groups were exempted).

However, the 67 to 100 million is hoped to cover the 78 million leaving plus allow for the job growth they project which over the next 20 years of adding a million or so jobs a year, requires a lot of immigrants besides the ones for the 78 million leaving the work force.

Only by investing in something we aren't paying taxes on would we come out ahead. But, the risk is higher. However, if we do invest in a personal account, that has gov. bonds, and we have a healthy economy we can do OK.

4% of income for a $17,000 a year worker would give him a check as large as S.S. and $165,000 in his account if invested in 50/50 gov bonds and AAA rated bonds.

However, to be a healthy economy, much of the tax revenue needs to come from exports and taxes on imports or from loans to other nations that are actually paid back, etc. With manufacturing leaving, we also lose the taxes in prices that foreign consumers would pay. The less we manufacture for export or the less high tech we export, the more we have to pay ourselves the interest.

Decades ago, it wasn't too bad. We didn't have the longevity and we exported to the world.

Solving the social security problem is, of course, just one of three major problems. We also have to reform Medicare and our tax and compliance requirements for business.

Currently the number IPO's is dropping radically and businesses listing on the NYSE is too. Businesses are now using other nation's low taxes and listing on the London and Hong Kong stock exchanges to get around Sarbanes-Oxley and other high cost regulation.

One friend of mine has a brother in law that makes medical equipment. It is a small company by comparison to many and he had to go from one accountant to five in order to meet all the new regulations after Sarbanes and other accounting requirements.

So, we continue to lose manufacturing, especially new manufacturing to foreign nations. We are now ranked 4th with Hong Kong, Singapore and Australia ahead of us. While you don't see a flood of business from the U.S. going to Australia, you do see a lot going to Hong Kong and Singapore.

Naturally you also see many going to Ireland where wages are even higher than here but, after tax profits are higher due to low corporate income tax.

We have dozens of nations in rapid growth now and virtually all of them went into that rapid growth after tax reform. About 30 have gone to personal accounts in social security, including China (gov and bus. contribute too). We have the examples to use. We just have to have voters that demand representatives that look at the examples and choose the best suited for us.

join the fight to save America!
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

The above link will take you to the best organized group fighting to save America from the ILLEGAL alien invasion... please check out many other links to learn more at my long screed below at:

*************************************************
lodestar writes: Saturday, May, 12, 2007 11:47 AM
willful neglect of the law
************************************************

Time is VERY SHORT folks... Scamnesty is being planned THIS WEEK in the Senate!!! You can call your Senators directly or send e-mails to their official e-mail address right here:

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm

Bookmark it and CONTACT THEM OFTEN! Let freedom ring out! Save America from the special interests seeking the North America Union --> Mexicomerica.

Middle Americans just like YOU derailed the Scamnesty Express months ago, but now that the 'Crats have won they and their globalist RINO buddy Presidente Jorge want to assure permanent big entitlement government with those future uneducated, indigent voters.

I am sending them Congressman Ron Paul's excellent summary below--

Border Security and Immigration Reform

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.


Hezbollah is already here
With Hezbollah present in the triBorders area in South America, we have Spanish speaking Muslims who undoubtedly have used illegal entry into America across our southern borders. These are Iranian supporters, and more dangerous, for the present, than the Sunni al Qaeda.

The President's dereliction of duties required by the Constitution is as a matter for impeahment proceedings.

Hezbollah is already here
That's 'impeachment' not 'impeahment'. Sorry, but you know what I meant.

my letter to Congress
[this letter used the great outline of actions by Cong. Ron Paul as its framework... it was customized and sent to almost all Senators and selcted Members of the House]

Dear Committee on the Judiciary:

We would like to share our letter to Senator McCain with the House Judiciary Committee since the relevant issues are under your auspices. We believe that this is BY FAR the MOST IMPORTANT CHALLENGE FACING AMERICA.

Thank you for considering our views. We hope that your Committee will put the best interests of America ahead of the self-aggrandizing desires of limited interest groups. We will be watching your decisions with GREAT interest.

Thanks to all for your service to America.


********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
Dear Senator McCain:

While we agree with you on some key subjects philosophically, there is one issue where we DISAGREE PROFOUNDLY: your support of ILLEGAL aliens. If you are to have ANY HOPE of winning the Oval Office, you need to change course on this according to over two-thirds of the voting public:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back906.html

As a border state senator, you must be acutely aware of the problems these lawbreaking interlopers cause-- see the recent referenda issues passed in Az. which totally oppose the concepts of Kennedy--McCain Amnesty.

We know that the Senate is poised to debate Immigration reform and would like to share our summary thoughts. We understand the pressures you face and hope that you will not again cave to the pressures of the special interests when the VERY FUTURE OF AMERICA IS AT STAKE. We agree with the following overview goals:

Border Security and Immigration Reform

We must secure our borders NOW. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. Potential terrorists can dance across our soft underbelly border with Mexico, or overstay visas.

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country BEFORE we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals... no more Simpson-Mazzoli Scamnesty shell game reforms.

2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays his/her visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas. A tamper-proof I.D. may be necessary for all NON-citizens to function while VISITING America TEMPORARILY-- to work, get a license, rent an apartment, go to college, seek emergency assistance, pass go, etc.

3. NO AMNESTY-- PERIOD. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. Border crashing is only the first of what becomes lives of serial lawbreaking. There should be NO PATH TO CITIZENSHIP for those who have been here ILLEGALLY. It is a farce to speak of paying a $2,000 fine and back taxes when each ILLEGAL alien household is costing taxpayers $22k annually in deficit taxes versus social services used alone (Heritage).

4. No welfare for ILLEGAL aliens. Americans have welcomed LEGAL immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. BUT taxpayers should not pay for ILLEGAL immigrants who decimate hospitals, schools, roads, and social services, and permeate illegitimacy, crime, drugs, gangs, and ethnocentric barrio balkanization. Public financial assistance for higher education for non-citizens should be prohibited.

5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong. We need to reinterpret the 14th Amendment as it was intended.

6. Pass TRUE immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is INSANITY. Legal
immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods. We should emphasize EDUCATED, SKILLED immigrants who can make positive contributions, NOT those who become net users of government services-- like most ILLEGAL aliens.

Thank you for considering our views, and thank you for your service to America.

NAME
College Professor
Business and Economics
Atlanta, Georgia
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