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Monday, June 04, 2007
Rich Lowry :: Townhall.com Columnist
Againt Know-Nothingism
by Rich Lowry
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Supporters of a lax immigration policy love to hurl the charge of "Know-Nothingism" against their critics. But, oddly enough, it is the Senate immigration bill that duplicates a key element of the 19th-century Know-Nothing platform. Those long-ago nativists wanted to make immigrants wait 21 years to become citizens. The Senate bill effectively creates a comparable waiting period.

In Sunday's Democratic presidential debate, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson said it would take about 13 years under the bill to become a citizen -- as a kind of point of pride. President Bush, the compassionate conservative, brags about "the hurdles to citizenship" in the bill. They evidently want the "pathway to citizenship" to be as strewn with as many obstacles as possible.

They aren't motivated by animus toward immigrants, of course, but instead by fear and hatred of one word: amnesty. The Senate bill is piled with fines, fees and other requirements so its supporters can argue it's not really an amnesty. Amnesty, however, always has been considered any process whereby illegals immigrants become legal. The bill's drafters merely have created a conditional amnesty rather than an unconditional one.

The bill's supporters simply should say, "The vast majority of these illegal immigrants are people here to work, and they aren't going to be forced to go home; therefore there is no humane and moral option besides giving them an amnesty." That would be admirably straightforward and obviate the need for complex, obfuscatory lawmaking.

The bill gives pretty much every illegal alien here immediate legal status in the form of a probationary Z visa. That's the amnesty. Then come all the things meant to make the amnesty deniable: a $1,000 fine and $1,500 processing fee for an actual Z visa, which lasts four years; then, it has to be renewed for a $500 fee for another four years; after which, a green card is available with another $4,000 fine; and five years after that -- the possibility of applying for citizenship!

Some of the obstacles are clearly for show. Once someone has a Z visa, he has to go back to his home country to apply for a green card. This is pointless. The original purpose of this kind of "touch-back" provision was to make sure an illegal alien was home -- not here in this country -- when applying for legal status. Then, if his application was denied, he'd already be deported. But these green-card applicants will already have been legal for years and presumably back in the U.S. while their application is processed.

Cynical politics and economics play a role here. Republicans don't want formerly illegal immigrants voting anytime soon, since poor, low-skilled households aren't going to produce many GOP voters for a generation or so. And business doesn't care about citizenship one way or the other, as long as it gets its cheap labor. That's why employers support the indentured-servitude-style guest-worker program in the bill.

It is corrosive of American civic ideals to have widespread violation of the law and a class of people who aren't fully a part of American society. This bill -- which is neither soft nor tough enough -- will quickly return us to exactly that position. People who have absconded from deportation orders and aren't automatically eligible for the Z visas (some 600,000 people), illegals who have come here since January 2007 and are ineligible, and illegals who won't bother with the rigmarole of getting a real Z visa will form the basis of another large illegal population.

This is why a rational approach to immigration must start with enforcement. Only when enforcement is real would it be possible to give an amnesty to those illegals still here without repeating the experience of the past 20 years -- an ever-growing illegal population after an amnesty -- all over again. With a viable enforcement regime in place, illegals still here could get a path to citizenship more generous than the Know-Nothing version in the deeply flawed Senate bill.

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About The Author
Rich Lowry is author of Legacy: Paying the Price for the Clinton Years .
 
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Lowry fades in the stretch!
Like an overconfident racehorse, that sets the pace through the first three fourths of the course, then stumbles, Lowry fades in the stretch, and fails to finish the race.

After several paragraphs of cogent reasoning, he eventually states that:

“Only when enforcement is real would it be possible to give an amnesty to those illegals still here without repeating the experience of the past 20 years -- an ever-growing illegal population after an amnesty -- all over again. With a viable enforcement regime in place, illegals still here could get a path to citizenship more generous than the Know-Nothing version in the deeply flawed Senate bill.”

Bull crap. No amnesty – no path to citizenship for the illegal alien lawbreakers – ever. It is crucial to secure the border, absolutely, before we even begin the discussion about how to amend and revise our more comprehensive immigration policy. I think there are more true Conservatives who would agree with me than Lowry.

Secure the borders! All of them! Prove that they are secure. I don’t want any stinking “certificates” from the same forked-tongued politicians who declare that I am an unfair, un-American, racist, bigot, just because I want border security. I want to see for myself that the borders are secure. Only then, would I want to see any further recommendations for immigration “reform” fully debated in Congress. I don’t want any behind-closed-doors deals among the inside the beltway con-men. Get it all out in the open. Bring in all of the think-tankers, other experts, and real citizens to talk about reform.

Everyone can have their say, but I can tell you now that I will never agree with or consent to amnesty for the illegal aliens, who have violated our borders, engaged in identity theft, and have made use of forged documents. That goes for all potential terrorists, as well as the selfish illegal aliens, who have trampled over their own countrymen - those who had followed the legal path to try to get into this wonderful country.

Enforce the law now! And if you want to do something else useful, while you are dreaming of a future amnesty, light a fire under those “public servants” who can’t seem to get through the paperwork of all of those legal immigrants, who have been waiting in line for so long. If you can’t accomplish that, I can’t believe that you can get an accurate background investigation done on the gate-crashers.

Illegal Aliens are NOT immigrants

Yes, hispanics can certainly be as American as you or I, I know some. However, Mexicans are not Americans, Guatamalans are not Americans, Hondurans are not Americans, El Salvadorans are not Americans. They can be, IF they apply for legal entry and follow our EXISTING path to citizenship. If they enter illegally they are illegal aliens. When someone lets himself into your house without your permission, do you consider him a guest? I don't. Invasion is not the right term, but what is happening is NOT immigration. People do not have an unlimited right to "migrate" from their country to ours. I know many immigrants from all over the world and it is especially for them that I oppose amnesty for illegal aliens. Some have waited years in refugee camps in southeast asia for their chance to become Americans. They respect this country, our laws, language and culture. All of them took the time, effort and expense to do it the right way. We should honor all those who have and not insult their sacrifices with another amnesty. The amnesty of 1986 has resulted in 10 times the number of illegal aliens and a general disregard for our laws. Another amnesty would be equally successful.

How about...
Against bad-spellingism in titles of articles on Townhall.com?

jb


Hold the Base, Please
I would like to point out that after 1776, we were "all illegals." Gee, maybe Tony Blair ought to deport us.

Here's what I wrote today in my blog (click on name above) about the supposed "base," also known as the increasingly motley crew.

NOTE: ONE OF THE MORE IRRITATING BUZZ WORDS ON TH DEALS WITH THE SUPPOSED "REPUBLICAN BASE" OR "BUSH BASE." I PROMISE TO WRITE ABOUT THIS SUBJECT LATER, BUT HERE'S WHAT I SAID IN ONE COMMENT ABOUT A GUY WHO WAS GOING ON ABOUT THE SUBJECT: "Can we please stop talking about the Republican/Bush base? Where were all these worthy souls in the election last November? From all appearances, they are a group more interested in whining and holding their breath till they turn blue than in voting and WORKING. I sometimes think the fabled "base" consists of 199 people, all of them comment writers on TH."

So, can we avoid using the term "base" for about six months? If there are issues, let's discuss them, but let's stop talking about a group that increasingly seems like a bunch of one-issue robots and malcontents. If the 'base" is unhappy and truly exists, I would suggest they do something to elect candidates to their liking. Right now, the base looks like a very small minority of the American electorate.


but how do you close the border
Conservatives keep saying "secure the border" as if it's some easy process. It's not. In fact, it's probably impossible. All the conservatives' proposed plans are ridiculously expensive, big-government programs that are doomed to failure.

Rich Lowry wrote: "This is why a rational approach to immigration must start with enforcement."

If enforcement was so easy, we would have already done it. Unfortunately, as long as Latin Americans have a gigantic economic incentive to come to America, making more in an hour here than they can make at home in a week, there is no enforcement that will work.

We're not trying to stop animals from coming to America. Those people are just as smart as we are, extremely motivated, and they'll find ways around any border security we apply. The cost to enter may rise, but with that kind of economic bonus for illegally coming to America, that will hardly slow them down. I don't care if you put the 82nd Airborne on the border, illegal immigrants will find a way in to gain that huge economic advantage. We haven't been able to secure the smaller Iraqi border with Iran, and they're using the 82nd Airborne.

No. The only reasonable solution to stopping illegal immigration is to get rid of that economic incentive. By and large, American employers know their illegal employees, or can certainly find out. Once employers face arrest for hiring illegals, illegal aliens will have no jobs, and the economic incentive for illegal aliens to break into America will go away. The illegal aliens already here will go home. We'll catch, arrest, and deport the hard core cases who stay.

Once the human flood is reduced to a trickle by removing the economic incentive for breaking into our country, existing border agents will be able to effectively secure our border. There is no need for any big-government fence, military, National Guard, mass deportations or anything else.

This is the only good way to solve this problem. Let's stop the hand-wringing, the fantasizing, and the bull****. Enforce our existing laws and solve this problem.

http://freedomistheanswer.blogspot.com/

Treat them as you would treat me
If I were to tresspass in the White House, you think I'd get amnesty because I was just being a tourist?
If I went economically underground, cash only and didn't declare and pay income taxes you think I'd get amnesty to encourage me to come out of the dark?
If I came out and availed myself of this amnesty and filed my W-2's, 199's, W-4's and had my employer pay SSC, state and local taxes, unemployment and workmen's comp; then you think my employer is going to keep me?


lostinwilderness
How do we close the border? You answered your own question: "Enforce our existing laws."

We have laws that provide for deportation of illegal aliens when caught. So stop catch and release.

We have laws against harboring criminals, which illegal aliens are by definition. So prosecute mayors and city councils who break the law by creating "sanctuary cities."

We have laws against employing illegal aliens. So raid and fine until employers get the message and fear the consequences more than they fear paying a little more for labor (and don't allow the unemployed illegals to collect welfare). That measure alone will cause most illegal aliens to deport themselves.

We have a law that provides for a border fence to be built. So build it.

McCain touts his bill as one that emphasizes enforcement first. But we don't need more (basically duplicate) laws to enforce our borders. The problem has not been insufficient laws, complexity of the task, or lack of funding. The problem has been lack of political will to enforce the existing laws. Until we reverse that course, all the new laws we can cook up will fail to secure our borders because the new laws won't be enforced either.

Cmprehensive enforcment
Of existing laws, building the fence, beef up the Border Patrol, and let themdo their job without fear of lawsuits or jail time, would pretty much fix this.

how do you close the border
One way that might help would be to let the border patrol do its job and not prosecute agents for shooting drug dealers in the butt, while giving the drug dealer immunity from prosecution.

"I Know . . . Nothing"
Yes Rich, Know-Nothingism is going around these days, and it seems especially prevalent at National Review (for which I used to write).

I love writing my columns about the debates (click on name above). This week I've been discussing questions that I think CNN should ask -- but of course won't because it's, well, CNN. It's essential that we understand the limitations of the MSM, which are severe.

Here's an excerpt from today's column: "On the question of immigration: what specifically should we do about the 12 million 'illegals?' Bumper-sticker slogans are not going to solve the problem. What is the best, most humane way to proceed? Everyone knows what we should do first (improve security). However, what should we do second . . . and third . . . and fourth. Force the candidates to put themselves in the shoes of a Mexican man who can't feed his family and whose children are sick. What, Mr. Candidate, would you do? Watch your family starve to death?"


About the Bill...
I've read so many contradicting descriptions of "the Bill" I've tried to find a link to the actual Bill to read it myself. (I know, it's 700 pages long - and I'm not a lawyer) I do spend a lot of time reading legal documents anyway - and I've got a couple of long flights in the near future. If anyone has a link to the actual bill - please post!

Kiddin' us, Lowry? NO FENCE EVER!!!
You know well - so say it! - that all the "penalties" are meaningless, just to shut up the opponents.
In 1986 we were told the same things about controling the border etc.
You do not see that the fence will never be built, because of NA Union? You do know.
So stop bs-ing us.
WHEN someone will write about the REAL reasons for amnesty?

Security First
I am not going to argue about many of the specific details, I doubt that anyone will ever be perfectly happy with any bill dealing with this issue that anyone writes.

I agree that we need security first. But that is exactly what the current bill proposes:

1. The fence is being built, well over 80 miles (as of about two weeks ago) already and more than 100 will be finished by the end of the year. It should be completed by about 2010 (I know this seems like a long time, 2 1/2 years, but really it's about par for building projects of comparable size). I believe that well over 100 miles of vehicle barriers have been constructed.

2. The bill provides funding to hire even more border patrol agents than have already been hired in the last three years (well over 17,000 total, up from 4,000 in the mid-1970s).

3. The bill increases the fines and punishment faced by employers who hire illegals (as much as $75,000 per illegal employee). It also requires that employers confirm the employees right to work in this country, as opposed to the current system, where the employer just has to state that the employee gave him reason to believe that he had a right to work. The bill even includes penalties for people who pick up day-laborers on street corner.

4. The bill removes the extended family preference currently given to non-immediate family members of people already here, and places the weight of preference for looking to enter the country onto skilled labor. Whether the potential immigrants will benefit this country, instead of whether the potential immigrants have an uncle who's already in this country.

All this has to be in place and be working before any of the "amnesty" portions of the bill would come into effect. No z-visas, no probationary worker status, nothing until the security is in place and functioning.

Only after we deal with the perimeter problem do we begin to deal with the interior problem. We can't deport most of the illegals, so what are you going to do with them?

I couldn't agree more with Mr. Lowry's statement: The vast majority of these illegal immigrants are people here to work, and they aren't going to be forced to go home; therefore there is no humane and moral option besides giving them an amnesty. That would be admirably straightforward and obviate the need for complex, obfuscatory lawmaking.

Scamnesty apologists out in force today
This is deju vu all over again.

Been there, done that, got the T-short. It says "I opposed Simpson-Mazzoli in 1986" right across the front.

If current extant law -- the 1986 version of scamnesty -- would simply be enforced, particularly the employer sanctions, the illegals would simply self-deport. Dry up the money, they'll go home.

As to the rest: Every time they show up at the emergency room, put 'em on a bus back south. Kids in school? Bus 'em south. They're grouping together for another of their street demonstrations? ICE rounds 'em up and puts 'em on the bus south. Raids like the one in Arkansas. No more "catch and release". Enforce the 1986 law and give their employers jail time. Stopped for a traffic violation, jail and deport 'em. This is the only law on the books that isn't enforced when you're stopped for a ticket; see what happens if you have an outstanding warrant. Check the status of all the day workers hanging around the hardware store.

Pretty soon, you'll have rounded up a LOT of them, and made the environment so hostile they'll start self-deporting, too.






Steve!
Go find a hole, crawl in, and pull the dirt in behind you.

You impress no one but yourself. To the rest of us, you are beyond annoying.

Bryan R!
Well stated. Where there is a will to succeed, there is a path for that success.

Steve
You just get dumber every day.

Narcil
You are naive. Only two miles have been built of which was originally supposed to have been 700. That has been cut in half. Do you really think the govt. is going to enforce those employer fines? Are you kidding me? They'll cry hardship, donate to a party or campaign and that will be that. Cop a clue, we hqave already been lied to twice on this issue.

lostinthewilderness
If the govt. had intention of sealing that border it would have been done already. It isn't hard. It is called the National Guard. It is also caqlled get all other law enforcement agencies involved instead of forcing them to look the other way. Get Real.

big mick
On the money friend. Wonder how many illegals are cleaning Stevie's and Lowry's toilets? Lowry is a disappointment. Another one out of touch that lives in the beltway. Come to California and I'll show you the ghettos bought and paid for with my tax dollars because some cheap b**tard has to exploit the poor and uneducated. Heck, I can show you entire towns that have been taken over. No, I am not kidding! And I am sick and tired of pressing one for english!

Gabby
..I like your attitude, and woud not oppose fencing,.. BUT,

"Lostinthewilderness"
is absolutely right.. the answer is employment enforcement, that and only that will do this THING (stop illegal immigration),.. and we all, except for an occasional lost soul like "Narcil - Narcistic", can agree with that..

Employment brings them in, and NO employment stops the water at the dam.

Stevie boy
There are 4,500,000,000 very poor in the world and growing.. Do you want them here, or would you prefer to go where they live, and help out..

Please volunteer to go help them in there home.. just GO and do a good deed,.. let's see how long you last..

If you do, please write and tell us how you are doing.. every 31st of the month.. please ..

For our buddy Steve:
"Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Abraham Lincoln

LOL, Pepp! Touche!
.

I have a bridge to sell you
Narcil:

If you believe the border will be secured and the US government (which is incompetent) can actually enforce workplace violations, then you are mad.

Recall 1986 shall we? Remember employers were to make sure those they hired were legally able to work in the US? And the government would fine those that didn't follow the law. Hasn't exactly worked out that way.

Are you really stupid enough to believe that this time will be any different?

Also please note, today uncles who are US citizens are unable to sponsor nieces and nephews. This bill would greatly limit visas issued to adult parents of US citizens and eliminate visas to brothers and sisters of US citizens. Great going, Bush the dumb. Reward criminals and punish the family members of US citizens.

As for the 12-20 million illegals. Well a national ID card and other biometric ID cards for legal non-US citizens who can work in the US legally and Draconian fines, seizure of assets both personal and corporate and jail time for those that hire illegals will dry up the illegal market and most of the illegals will deport themselves. The US didn't import them and it doesn't have to export them--they will leave the same way they came. There will be some that remain by refusing to leave, MS-13 types for example but it won't be 20 million of them. Be easier to find and deport the rest and the new numbers coming in will be greatly reduced even without an enhanced fence.

And as for the companies that may go out of business because they need to illegal labor. If you need illegal labor to survive, you deserve to die. Let them eat cake or tacos or whatever.

Many expert to bill to die in the House. Great news if this happens.

Can we impeach Bush now?



Whoever this Steve guy is,
one thing about him is not hard to notice. He is just another elite who will support the Republican party even though it has joined with the elites in the Democrat party to sell out America. Of course, he wants to get rid of candidates he doesn't like, he only wants one of the anointed. As I have said many times, they are all unworthy of office, having duped us out of our inheritance and with the help of the MSM, perpetuated the MYTH that only they can be elected.

The truth is, these people, who rose up in the ranks of politics, are no smarter than the rest of us. Who says they are so besides themselves? It is time to tune out the Dem/GOP propaganda, time to believe that we, the American people who are the rightful owners of this great nation, are smart enough, wise enough, and yes, experienced enough, to govern ourselves as a free people without the help of the internationalist elites who hate this nation.

These people have sold out our economy and taxed us endlessly while pouring money down the sewer known as the UN. They want to spend more of our tax money and the lives of our troops to rescue the whole world from its own folly.

My website, JOEOLIVAFORPRESIDENT.ORG dispels the myth that we need to elect another Dem/GOP to the Presidency. Quite the contrary, we need to do the exact opposite, thereby setting in motion new forces to reclaim our birthright from the new, modern political aristocracy which is the current elites of both parties.

I urge you to visit my website and see that we have a great opportunity in this fight to restore the Constitution, rule of law, and will of the people, as the only true and valid principles by which we can and will govern ourselves. To Steve and any other die-hard Republican supporters, I say this: If we elect another Dem/GOP President, we will only guarantee a future for the country and our children of more big government, less personal freedom, and greater influence of the internationalist cabal that wishes only to "Bring America into line with the rest of the world"! That is their agenda and I have yet to see anyone prove me wrong about that. If I am correct, the question becomes, what are we going to do about it? November 2008 may seem a long way off, but the elites are working hard to ensure that they retain power once again! The time for action is now. Check out my website and believe in yourself and the possibilities! Thanks for listening, Joe.

TERRORISTS COME VIA MEXICO - LATEST NEWS
Counterterrorism authorities have come to fear that the porous U.S.-Mexico border provides entry into the United States, not only for illegal aliens, but for Islamic terrorists as well.


And these same Islamic terrorists may also be using Mexico as the conduit to bring nuclear devices into the U.S. for a WMD attack. These are among the chilling disclosure from Paul L. Williams, author of the just-released book "The Day of Islam: The Annihilation of America and the Western World." - drudgereport.com


According to Williams, al-Qaida has already hatched plans to smuggle nuclear materials across the Mexican border and use them for a mammoth simultaneous attack on several large U.S. cities.

Emailed my Senators
(Sorry about the formatting, that's the way the bill is formatted in the pdf I downloaded from the Senate website)

Subj: S. 1348

Dear Senator xxxx,
How can you say that the subject bill does not give amnesty to illegal aliens when Section 613 paragraph (f) states:

On Page 541 of S. 1348:

13 (f) TEMPORARY STAY OF REMOVAL AND WORK AU-
14 THORIZATION FOR CERTAIN APPLICANTS.—
15 (1) BEFORE APPLICATION PERIOD.—Effective
16 on the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary
17 shall provide that, in the case of an alien who is ap-
18 prehended before the beginning of the application
19 period described in subsection (a)(1)(B) and who
20 can establish a nonfrivolous case of eligibility for
21 blue card status (but for the fact that the alien may
22 not apply for such status until the beginning of such
23 period), until the alien has had the opportunity dur-
24 ing the first 30 days of the application period to

On Page 542 of S 1348:

1 complete the filing of an application for blue card
2 status, the alien—
3 (A) may not be removed; and
4 (B) shall be granted authorization to en-
5 gage in employment in the United States and
6 be provided an ‘‘employment authorized’’ en-
7 dorsement or other appropriate work permit for
8 such purpose.
9 (2) DURING APPLICATION PERIOD.—The Sec-
10 retary shall provide that, in the case of an alien who
11 presents a nonfrivolous application for blue card sta-
12 tus during the application period described in sub-
13 section (a)(1)(B), including an alien who files such
14 an application within 30 days of the alien’s appre-
15 hension, and until a final determination on the ap-
16 plication has been made in accordance with this sec-
17 tion, the alien—
18 (A) may not be removed; and
19 (B) shall be granted authorization to en-
20 gage in employment in the United States and
21 be provided an ‘‘employment authorized’’ en-
22 dorsement or other appropriate work permit for
23 such purpose.

I don't find any definition of "employment authorized endorsement" or "appropriate work permit" anywhere in the bill. Isn't that what a "Blue Card" is supposed to be?

By the way, when are "we" going to buy the computers, smart card readers, fingerprint scanners, smart card blanks, webcams or other digital cameras, and networking hardware (external to the computers) that will be needed to issue "Blue Cards" and other immigration "documents"?

Where is there a limitation on the length of time that an "employment authorized endorsement" or "appropriate work permit" is valid? Will Social Security numbers issued with those items be "temporary"? I think NOT.

These are the questions I read in weblogs and forums across the Internet. No one (apparently) can find an answer to them. That makes your efforts, and those of every legislator supporting this bill, appear to be deceitful. What say you?

Respectfully,

Thinker
You can BUY any sort of special circumstances in Mexico IF you have money.. I am sure the islamic terrorists have MONEY..

Constant shipments of unauthorized Chinese goods, and others, are forever finding there way into the country of Mexico..

Yes, it is a very real supposition (read fact) that our enemies can come through that very porous border like gangbusters... If they haven't already started bringing in something big, which I doubt, then tomorrow they will.. No doubt about it..

Curious employer wants to know.
How do you really know if someone is legal?



Immigration bills and legislation
I don't look to weblogs or forums for information about immigration, even though much of what I've seen is fairly accurate.

Link to S. 1348 1.43MB :
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:s1348pcs.txt.pdf

Link to H.R. 1645 1.27MB (House version of S. 1348):
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:h1645ih.txt.pdf
(Look at page 479 then go to page 487 in H.R. 1645)

Link to Title 8, United States Code, 2.41MB at the House of Representatives web site:
http://uscode.house.gov/pdf/2005/2005usc08.pdf
(Title 8 is LONGGGGG.
See page 123, right-side column, near bottom of page:
(6) Illegal entrants and immigration violators
(A) Aliens present without admission or parole
(i) In general
An alien present in the United States
without being admitted or paroled, or who
arrives in the United States at any time or
place other than as designated by the Attorney
General, is inadmissible.

THAT'S

Immigration Bills and Legislation
I hate it when that happens!

I was going to say THAT'S why they are called "illegal aliens".

Thinker
Little Nicaragua has more luck finding drug lords than does Mexico..

Admittedly it is somewhat easier to spot a mexican in Nicaragua than a Mexican in Mexico, and yes, the local populace is more apt to report anything suspicious, but still with a lot less firepower and a lot less training they are coming up about every 5 to 7 days with real drug smugglers.

Now what does that tell you about the ability of the Mexican authorities to find camouflaged Arabs with money, who are being careful not to make any waves as they head for the coyotes at the border who will make every correct move that they not be intercepted....

Semper Fi..

Hillbilly from Tn
you do good work..

And you are right again, anyone who stays on the blog won't find this juicy info..

You have too much experience or good common sense to label yourself as TNhillbilly... Sly aren't you..

Stay at it.. Those yankees (bush and crew) are goinna learn to show more respect for us dum nuts..

O' away down south in the land of cotton..

Come on Fred, wees just awaitin on ya..

How do you know
Steve:

At this point you don't. But if they don't have a SSN or you call in their SSN (which you can do) and it turns out that the number used by Jose of Chamblee really belongs to a guy that died in Topeka last two years ago, you can bet that Jose a'int legal.

But that is exactly Steve, why the US needs a biometric ID card for every legal person in the US--citizen, permanent resident, lawful non-immigrant visa holder that is allowed to work legally. That way Steve...you will know.


reply to: OnceAMarine
Thanks, OAM.

BTW, S. 1348 is 790 pages long, H.R. 1645 has 697 pages, and 8USC has 505 pages of two-column text in about 6pt. font, so there is a very good chance that there are other traps in them that I haven't found yet.

After all, I'm not a lawyer. I retired from the USAF in 1986 and retired again from the Florida Dept of Corrections in 2002. I'm glad FL changed the law so I could retire early, I'd had all the fun I could stand there. I'll be 60 next month, so I have been around a little.

I think that the ulterior motives behind this immigration law are something we need to fight, and fight hard. Everything this law attempts to accomplish is already in existing law. If existing law was enforced there would be no problem with illegal immigration, so there MUST be ulterior motives for the new law.

It's getting close to time to clean house. The dirt is just piling up too high, it's starting to choke us.


TNhillbilly
"The dirt is just piling up too high, it's starting to choke us." Right, and I don't think even you and I have any idea how much there is..

That "starting to choke us", makes me think that's what is really intended..

There is only one country on earth that can stop the one worlders, so choke it down til it can't..

Damm, they may come looking for me if we really start to understand all this.. Are you ready..

Some people think we're nuts,.. yeah, and how are you going to explain the total irrationality and irresponsibility of this excuse for a government without a conspiracy.. I don't think they are as stupid as they would have to be to do so much damage to the country as they are obviously so bent on doing.. No, it can't be just an economic thing, it has to be something more than that... Hummmm..

Amnesty bill
Lowry's observations on the Senate bill are very astute. Unfortunately, Republicans in Congress have not rallied to the "enforcement first" strategy recommended for many years by Tancredo, yet that is the only logical and sensible alternative to the amnesty bill.They need to start from scratch, which is what should happen if the Senate bill is killed. People forget that Tanacredo himself authored and offered a guest worker bill in 2004 that had tough safeguards against gaming the system to favor foreign workers.

Narci
Narci is misinformed in saying that we already have 17,000 Border Parol agents at work. It is closer to 13,500, 4,500 short of Bush's promise of 18,000 by the end of 2008. Moreover, over 200 former BP officers just held a news conference, June 4, to say that CBP managment is lying about the current manpower numbers, about recruitment and turnover, and that the 18,000 cannot be achieved before 2010 at the EARLIEST. The Senate bill itself mandates that DHS start issuing Z visas within 18 months of enactment. That alone shows that Bush and the sponsors are not serious about the border security "triggers" in the bill.

amnesty
Sorry, Rich. You just joined the "pro-amnesty" crowd, no matter how nuanced you attempt to say it. Like all the rest, you demonstrate a)an appalling lack of common sense, and b)an appalling lack of intellectual rigor. I am married to an alien, and we both are stunned at how our Republican/conservative "leaders" are selling America out at breathtaking speed. I won't accuse you of ulterior motives--just being dead wrong. And make no mistake about it: if you claim to have some kind of wisdom, worthy of being regularly read/listened to, then you better demonstrate you're worth our time and open-mindedness towards what you say. You blew it big time and there are consequences to that. All I can personally do to try to fight back and try to hold you accountable for your wrong-headedness is to say that I will put my plans to subscribe to NR in the dumpster. And I won't read you again; in this one amazing, profound move, you have discredited yourself. Such things truly do happen, sad as it is to witness when it's people one really liked.

March for America Events June 14, 15, 16

March for America June 14, 15, 16 Washington D.C. and state capitols across the country. Be there or be without a country.

http://www.lframerica.com/march2.html
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