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Monday, June 23, 2008
Rep. Joe Pitts and Rep. Phil English :: Townhall.com Columnist
It's Past Time to Expand Domestic Refining Capacity
by Rep. Joe Pitts and Rep. Phil English
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With the price of gas well over $4 a gallon nationwide, with no end to the high prices in sight, what is Congress doing? Voting on legislation to regulate the import, export, transport, and sale of “nonhuman primates.” This is not a joke, though it must seem like one to the American public. Instead of voting on a single bill to increase American made energy this week, Congress instead voted on H.R. 2964, the Captive Primate Safety Act.

The American people must be rightly furious that Congress continues with their business as usual, as if families aren’t paying $70 to fill up their minivans so they can drive to work, or take their kids to soccer practice.

In light of this situation, House Republicans have taken to utilizing a little used procedural tool called a discharge petition, in order to highlight the difference between our conference and the Democrat Majority on the very serious issue of energy security.

We have teamed up to offer a discharge petition to H.R. 2279, a bill that would expand our domestic oil refining capacity by setting aside three closed military bases to use as sites to build new refineries.

A new refinery has not been built in the United States since 1976, and the refineries that we do have are operating at or near capacity.

In fact, in 2007, according to the Energy Information Administration, the United States imported 148 million barrels of finished gasoline for use in our cars and trucks. That is on top of the billions of barrels of crude oil we imported.

For too long, we have not taken the proper steps to strengthen the energy infrastructure here in the United States that will make us energy secure.

Instead, for decades now, we have depended on oil, both crude and refined, from abroad. Often times, this oil comes from unfriendly nations, and the money we send to these states gets used in nefarious ways against our very own interests.

The time has come to make the investments in our nation’s energy infrastructure to help reduce our dependence on foreign oil.

There is no doubt, we must continue to invest in the future with renewable and alternative technologies like wind, solar, biomass, geothermal and the like. But we need more time to invest in these technologies.

In fact, renewable energy sources—hydroelectric, geothermal, wind, solar, and biomass— only met about 7 percent of America’s total energy needs in 2006, according to the Energy Information Administration. No matter how much we would like to say we can quickly wean this nation off it’s addiction to fossil fuels, there simply is no quick fix.

So, in the mean time, while we continue to develop the renewable and alternative technologies of tomorrow, we must produce more fuel here at home today.

However, even if we were to produce more oil, we simply do not have the capacity to refine it in order to turn it into the fuel we use to power our cars and trucks.

Massive regulations and skyrocketing litigation costs have prevented the construction of a new refinery for over three decades. Hurricanes Katrina and Rita have demonstrated how important a sound and reliable energy infrastructure is to America’s economy.

Less than a week after Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf, the average retail price for regular unleaded increased by 46 cents because nearly half of our nation’s refining capacity is located along the Gulf Coast.

H.R. 2279 would address one of the largest hurdles to building a new refinery: finding land. It would direct the President to designate three closed military bases as suitable for the construction of an oil refinery.

Once identified, the bases could be set aside for two years so that oil companies could be invited to purchase the land from the government. Finding land can be a very difficult challenge for a group that wishes to build a new refinery.

By using a closed military base, we can provide an alternative to communities that will need something to fill the void left by departing servicemen, and we can address one of our nation’s most important energy infrastructure issues at the same time.

It is unfortunate that Republicans have been forced to use procedural motions to force Congress’s hand on the energy issue, but the stakes are too high. The American people are sick and tired of a Congress that cannot seem to address an issue that is so negatively affecting families across the country.

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About The Author
Rep. Joe Pitts represents the 16th Congressional District of Pennsylvania. Rep. Phil English represents the 3rd Congressional District of Pennsylvania.
 
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Popular Articles By Rep. Phil English

Re: "windfall profits"
to begin with, this is a misnomer for the oil industry - their profits come from THEIR efforts, they are not "gimmes!" If we want to start hitting on companies making extraordinary profits, let's begin with a few Mr. Al Gore is associated with. If ever there was a snake oil salesman, he is today's version 1,000 times over! Thanks to both of these fine Congressmen for their efforts - I wish them luck. However, every time I contact my congressman, I doubt he ever even sees it - his staff undoubtedly toss it in the circular file, knowing his predisposition to follow the liberal line in lockstep! We must begin to utilize the energy sources available in the United States of America immediately! I wish President Bush would issue an emergency declaration and get the process started NOW! What has he to lose? Everyone (according to the polls anyhow) hates him anyway. The military base use for new refineries is a winner! We are sitting on a motherload of coal that would provide energy for years to come and modern technology has cleaned up the emission problems! The oil that could be found in the Rocky Mountains would carry the entire country for years! Let our country regain its title of the "can-do" nation of the world instead of being a sissy-baby wimp!

Pitts & English
As a fellow Pennsylvanian, I'm glad to see two of our congressman speaking out on this. However, we are not "addicted" to fossil fuels. They are a God given resource that we should not misuse, but neither should we feel guilty about using it properly. We need to get the oil we have in this country and stop looking like the idiots of the world because we ignore our own resources while paying big bucks to other countries.

Island 3:16 PM EST
"By the way what happened to the heat pumps of the late seventies. I thought they were being promoted as a great answer. I haven't heard about them in a long time. Did that big plan not pan out so well?"

I installed a geothermal heat pump a dozen years ago. It supplies me with free heating, air conditioning, domestic hot water, and spa heating. I used to use about 1500 gallons of fuel oil a winter, so at today's prices the geothermal system is saving me $6,000/year just for heating. Maybe $10K total.

Air-to-air heat pumps are the more common type. I don't have any statistics, but it wouldn't surprise me if 30-40% of homes in this country use heat pumps. All the big HVAC manufactures -- Lennox, York, Trane, Carrier, etc. -- offer them.

It might be that you haven't heard of them up there in Alaska because they don't work so well when the external air is extremely cold. On the other hand, it might just be that you don't know very much; look at your whacked-out opinions about global warming and the source of petroleum.

Were you aware that a big chunk of the Prudhoe Bay oil used to go to Japan, because it's closer than the west coast of the US?

Bob Munck
Oil as a finite substance is lossing more and more true believers all the time. They are becoming the new flat earthers. We have been pumping how many billions of barrels out of the ground for how long? And yet they are finding even more and more "deposits". Some of the old wells are filling up again. Are the dinosaurs still dieing off in record numbers, or is the earth naturally producing oil deep down in it's bowels and it is perculating up to the surface? Science is proving peak oil true believers are the real wackos of today.

I have heard them yammering on about windfall taxes. I have yet to hear them yammering on about fining the oil companies for camping on resources they are not developing. There is a difference. It's true they are both fines, but they are not fines for the same reasons, and they will not have the same results.

We ignored...

We ignored the wake-up calls of 1973 & 1979. Maybe now, with oil at $140 a barrel and gas approaching $5 a gallon, we have finally awakened to the fact that we must become energy self-sufficient.

We need to set our priorities on not just the short-term but also on the long-term. Our economy and national security demand it. Doing the right thing will not be easy, but the most difficult task will be overcoming politics as usual. Doing the difficult things has always been a virtue of American ingenuity. However, outside of the Space Program and its by-products, American ingenuity has failed to keep pace with the world around us.

We need to start drilling now…not tomorrow! We have the technologies to do it safely and cleanly. We need to build more refineries and power plants. We need to invest in other technologies to use and produce clean sources of energy. The challenge and question is not; can we do it, but will we do it.

I hope for the sake of my children’s and grand-children’s future and the future of America; WE NOT ONLY CAN, BUT WE MUST DO IT.


We need to use our own resources
ANWR is not pristine. It is not beautiful. It is no place you are going to want to visit at anytime in your lifetime. The animals and fauna are not in any danger. Prudho has proved this very fact. Prudho has improved the habitate for the animals living there. They are thriving like they never have before.

ANWR is not the only answer. We have oil and coal all over this country. Alaskans want ANWR developed. It has been studied and it is ready to go. The plan is to build a pipeline from ANWR through Canada down into the U.S. midwest.

Misinformed dingbats keep yammering on that the ANWR production will probably just end up in Japan and not help us at all. HUH? They are going to ship it to Japan after spending big bucks piping it all the way to the midwest? WOW!!! That's amazing!!! Who would have thunk? I guess if you think the oil companies have more money than they know what to do with it kind of makes sense.

We need to develop our own resources and quit finacing the world's tyrants. We need to keep our well paying jobs, and quit sending all our money overseas. We need to stop turning food into fuel. Because we have vast sources of oil, gas, coal, and nuclear enery know how we should not be having this discussion today. If you want to play with wind, solar, tides, etc have at it. Just don't hold oil hostage because of your hobbies. If and when you ever figure it out and it becomes reliable and economical let us know. We will be interested then.

By the way what happened to the heat pumps of the late seventies. I thought they were being promoted as a great answer. I haven't heard about them in a long time. Did that big plan not pan out so well?





Animal 2:53 PM EST
"The taxes per gallon is 70 cents."

Federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. States, counties, and cities add their own taxes, including sales taxes, so the total tax per gallon varies all over the place. For the first quarter of 2008, the average total tax was 47 cents per gallon, but that will have gone up with the rise in the price at the pump.

Oil companies are making about 8 PERCENT profit; that's 32 cents for $4/gal gasoline. They're claiming that it cost them about $3/gallon to produce and distribute the gas. Plus $30 million for their CEO.

Island 2:43 PM EST
"Oil is not a finite substance, we are not going to run out any time soon if we ever do run out, and it's not a fossel fuel."

Ah, the real whackos have arrived. Are you saying there's an INFINITE amount of oil? Where do you keep something like that in a finite universe?

"If oil companies are sitting on leases they haven't developed within a reasonable time, fine the begebbers out of them"

That's what Congress is trying to do, but it's being blocked by the Republicans.

Oil profits
Can someone answer me this.

Why is it that oil companies only make 8.3 cents profit per gallon. The taxes per gallon is 70 cents. That's only 78.3 cents per gallon. Who gets the rest of the money? That is the one's congress should be going after.

Maybe Congress should lower their profit margin.

We need the oil
Global Warming as promoted by Gore is a SCAM.

CO2 is not a pollutant, and it does not cause the earths temp to raise.

Oil is not a finite substance, we are not going to run out any time soon if we ever do run out, and it's not a fossel fuel.

We have literly tons and tons of clean coal just waiting for us to get our collective heads out of our asses and use it.

If we could recharge the fuel rods nuclear energy would have very little waste. Somehow the frogs in France figured that one out, but the geniuses in American can't seem to get it.

Using food for fuel is just about the dumbest idea to come down the pike. So what do we do? We substidise the h3ll out of it which wastes our tax dollars and raises the cost of everything else.

Importing oil is devestating our balance of payments. Exporting fuel would have the opposite effect. So let's keep importing.

Anyone who advocates for higher oil prices and substidies for alternatives in an attempt to level the playing field are just about the dumbest creatures on earth. They are useless eaters.

If the oil companies didn't have to spend big bucks and lots of time fighting off the enviro ludites suits, studies, and other bullsplat the oil would come on the market a heck of a lot faster and a whole lot cheaper.

If oil companies are sitting on leases they haven't developed within a reasonable time, fine the begebbers out of them and do not allow them to count the fine as a reduction to their profit. Then take the lease away from them and offer it to someone else. If they lease an area and within a reasonable amount of time they determine it is not worth developing then they could turn in their lease without paying the heavy fine. Make it cost them dearly to sit on resources they do not develope.










Obama's clueless about OIL!!!
Global warming exists... Jesus.. I can't believe this debate is still going on. If you don't trust the government/politicians (which you probably shouldn't), use your brain and do some research... there are manymany studies that show its effects. Beyond that... we need something besides CORN ethanol..

Obama has no idea what he's doing with respect to ethnanol, corn, and the economy. By continuing to support the corn ethanol mandate and the import tariff on ethanol, he will hurt the American people, who are in dire need of another solution.
Check out this article:

http://www.greenfaucet.com/hanlons-pub/obama-clueless-on-co rn

McCain's rational energy policy would be great for his campaign if people opened their eyes and realized that obama's plan was dimwitted.

Refining capacity
A study conducted by two congressmen in the early 90's proved that we could provide all of the EPA requirements fro every city with just three grades of gas. We presently have 27 designer fuels which limits the capacity of a refinery to keep up with each cities demand. Congress should put through a bill to follow what this study found. and go to three grades of fuel. With the increased capacity at the present refineries, this would lower the price per gallon and provide a breather while new refineries are built.

bravemonk199 11:01 AM EST
"First lets all forget about the global warming lie by Al Gore. We Americans who have a brain know its a SCAM."

See, that's the trouble. There are literally hundreds of you who think that, and you're all sharing just ONE BRAIN.

"Second, ANWR..proof positive there would be enough oil there to give us 1 million barrels a day for at least the next 38 years and we would not have to import during that time."

Ah, case in point. The US uses about 21 million barrels of oil a day, so we'd have to cut our usage by 95% to make that true. Alternatively, ANWR would be used up in somewhat less than two years at present consumption levels.

In fact, the current estimate is that if ANWR were opened for drilling right now, the greatest effect would be to lower the cost of gasoline by $0.06/gallon in 2025. That'll be such a relief!

Cyber Granny
Thats because you DUMBARSE LIBS think GWB is this sort of OIL CARTEL himself, that goes to show about how STUPID YOU LIBS are when you start with your BDS. I think you ought to know by now that BUSH isnt capable of getting OPEC to do anything. We dont own or control OPEC and when you DUMBARSE LIBS figure that out we will have gone under and with you and your ENVIRO BUDDIES in the way this country will fall one day and then we can look back and say WHAT A JOKE THIS DO NOTHING DEM LED CONGRESS WAS , by the way I think your DEM LED CONGRESS has a worst approval rating than BUSH. History will not be kind to DEMS in Congress if we take a dump on this OIL PROBLEM. The American people have spoke over 70% say DRILL NOW. So what doesnt your DO NOTHING DEM LED CONGRESS not get about this. REMEMBER ILLEGAL AMNESTY BILL, the American People spoke then and we will raise HELL until we see change and Im not talking about the change in my pocket that your MESIAH(OBLAMA) wants from me.

Conservative don't know what Liberal is
This is how the nuts in the middle east with bombs think, the henchmen of Hitler, Stalin, etc. All good little robots who can't think or see the obvious because it doesn't conform to what you all have been led to believe by your cult leaders.

Scary that I have to pay $4 for gas because you all are more in love with right wing ideology then solutions that may conflict with your programing.

Conservative don't know what Liberal is
I just figured out why many Conservatives are dumb as my sack but still seem to think they are intellectual purveyors of truth.

The goofball who posted something about libs wanting higher gas prices was the tell tell. That's totally untrue, no mainstream lib wants that. Maybe a few kooks do but that's the minority. Libs want responsible government that can lead us into the future while providing adequate regulation here & now; cheap gas with a government that has the courage to mandate high milage cars over the next 10 years. That way the transition is easy & pain free. But the right free marketers believe every change has to be painful, tough so that during times of change a few can get very rich on the backs of the working class! You may not like how that sounds but if you look at the results of your theories in the real world & not just the marketing of it via Rush, that's how it always plays out under conservative rule. Study history, not just the Hannity's selective interpretations.

You all really don't know anything about what a real liberal is or what an environmentalist is. There are kooks on both extremes. And if the kooks were having a pissing contest the right would win because they're 2 steps away from their own religion of fundamentalistism & hating.

But regarding the central issue, you have allowed Rush, Hannity & all those entertainers to create an image of what a liberal or environmentalist is. And you actually believe in this carton like creation & have lost the ability to actually be a critical independent thinker. Every post by right wingers is a variation of things repeated by these hosts as if you all are robots & cannot even look at reality and figure out the obvious since some form of truth is in the middle or even the left.

Better idea..
Both sides ( dem's and rep's ) say they want to solve these problems. What if this turned out to be a historic election? WHAT IF Dem voters and Rep voters got together and said we will elect NOBODY until one of them agrees to solve these problems we have with a simple, logical and most cost saving solution? What if for the first time in history we held both sides accountable? Weather you are dem or rep or a man from mars we are all paying over $4.00 at the pump. We are all in this together and some kind of action will be required to solve these problems. Talking heads only produce more Co2!

Solution..
Are you Dem's tired of the blame game yet? Dem's have been in control of the house for 2 years and done nothing so shut the hell up! Now to real business. First lets all forget about the global warming lie by Al Gore. We Americans who have a brain know its a SCAM. Second, ANWR..proof positive there would be enough oil there to give us 1 million barrels a day for at least the next 38 years and we would not have to import during that time. Third, we have more coal here than anywhere else. We have the technology to turn it into liquid fuel for automobile use and also the technology to burn it clean in power plants. Don't even need the nuke plants! Problem solved. Now lets see who is the first to use the solutions instead of pointing fingers and wasting time!

Clean Your Own Party !



Don't blame the jacka$ party for everything!

You A$holes had six years to take care of things, and all you DID was become dems!

Clean YOUR House, before blaming the jacka$es!


Don't get mad, get even.

VOTE THE jacka$es out of office !

ALL OF THEM ! Both parties.


oil, addendum
Blame the American people, the environmentalists...but not Cheney the oil man who has secret meetings with oil exects, engineers a $9 billion GRANT to oil companies to develop alternate sources of energy? And remember your mr bush who was going to jawbone the OPEC boys to get them to open the spigots and bring the cost of oil down? He tickled the prince's palm and sure brought the prices down, didn't he?

Oil;
LOL What did the republicans do for all the time THEY were in office? Bush and McCain were against drilling (bush couldn't find oil in Texas, remember?), and now they are for it.

Wrong Tack
Unless we can sue the EPA and attack these Marxist greenies from the 5 different directions they are vulnerable in, we will achieve nothing. They initial the construction of these things, planning all the while to then fail inspection, force the company to tear it all down, and put it back the way it was.

Marshaling the public is unimportant to a Marxist. We already have 77% approval of the American public to drill and refine oil. The old USA is dead because the media is no longer dependent on the public for support.

Our Congressmen need to somehow be brought up to date. Wake up and smell the coffee. There are other power bases which trump their own.

Hummer more "green" than Prius?
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED READ! Here's an excerpt:

The Prius registered an energy-cost average of $3.25 per mile driven over its expected
life span of 100,000 miles. Ironically, a Hummer, the brooding giant that has become the
bête noir of the green movement, did much better, with an energy-cost average of $1.95
over its expected life span of 300,000 miles. And its crash protection makes it far safer
than the tiny Prius.

Full article at: http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automotiveenergy/Hidden%20Cost %20of%20Driving%20a%20Prius%20Commentary.pdf


DRILL NOW
They keep telling us that we cant drill our way out of this, well one thing I know for sure is that they cant TAX OUR WAY OUT OF IT EITHER.

But that is always the LIB MANTRA, if you think someone is making too much money TAX THEM.

I was a LIB for 35 yrs and I left the CRY BABY PARTY because they always say they are for the people and can help the most but what I never understood is how can you claim to help the people more than REPS when every solution to your peoblems is to TAKE THE PEOPLES money you claim too support. CANT FIGURE this one out. Where does taxing the people help with eliminating the OIL PROBLEM.

PLANET OF THE APES
Why don't we just sent the dems to their own planet where they can preserve the environment and eat off the land and ride horses to their places of employment? I am sick and tired of these out of touch elitist people (Nancy Pelosi was on Larry King in April and did not know the price of gas)who want to control our lives. Where is commonsense? We can drill, use nuke power, flex fuel, sugar based ethanol, (grain based is a fraud and is driving up the food prices, and who is tied to the ethanol lobby you ask? BARAK OBAMA!) This is America and we can do anything we set our minds to!

Let's do it all!!!
Let's drill everywhere, lets create alternative sources of energy. Other countries have done it, now it is our time. Both parties need to stop bickering like teenage girls and put something together. I care about the environment, but we have the resources and technology to produce oil and create alternative sources of energy in a manner that is environmentally safe. We shouldn't have to depend on other nations for anything, and both parties need to get it done for the America people.

i hate oil companies,
all the stock i have in them, and the thousands of other investors just wish they would quit making a profit so we dont either. Our future communist leader BHO will tax the evil oil companies, tax any profit I might see, and thats good for the party.

more truf
You can get a head start on the dimmercrap's vision of the future for the unwashed masses and be ultra green at the same time.. Join the voluntary human extinction project today.

http://www.vhemt.org/

Truth for the desert toadie pt 2
Put it this way..We import 1.5 million bpd from Saudi Arabia. If they shut off our supply, would the market move? Remember 1978? Anwar alone can produce 2/3 of what we get from Saudi Arabia (1.0 of 1.5 million bpd).

Now they are trying pass windfall profit taxes ( a proven failed policy under Carter) that quickly pass through to consumers, along with horrendously expensive cap 'n trade carbon limiting legislation.

Soon only the very wealthy will drive or fly or use more energy needed to sustain a third world lifestyle.

Environmentalists like high gas prices. They have a publicly stated goal of reducing consumption and encouraging new technology via 8-10 dollar a gallon gas. Their bought and paid for sphincter in the government, the democrat party, is right on board and holding fast in that goal. They got half way there before the conumers started sounding off in a meaningful way.

The environmental movement has a 30 year head start, They have trillions of dollars, thousands of lawyers, and they own the democrat majority in congress's balls outright. The only way the consumer will come out on top is if the gas prices keep rising, and the populace subsequently expresses their anger in the form of a total rout of democrats in the 08 elections.

If the dems get into power, look forward to $8-10 gas, crippling energy prices, more failed environmental policy, and a fast downhill slide in our economy. We will eventually return to third world status as their anti human, anti energy schemes deprive people of freedoms, and the horrendous cost of hyper regulated energy takes away from the population's ability to afford nutrition, medical care, and prosperity in general.

As the left makes the lifeblood of our country, energy, only affordable for the elite, the other 95% will suffer for it and suffer greatly.

A lot of truth.. read up desert taodie
First of all, let it be said that the crisis that we are in is the direct result of 30 years of failed environmentalist policy.

But, still, yes we can drill our way out of this. Contrary to (dem) house leader Harry Reid's outright lie that the US only has 3% of the world's oil, we have more than enough to be energy independant for generations to come. The truth is that we have more oil than the middle east. They just don't have environmentalists and democrats crippling their country.

The next fraudulent dim argument is that there are many lease areas that are not being used now. There are, but most are unprofitable. By the time you deal with endless permitting harassment and 200 million in enviro lawsuits, and 300-500 million to develop a single oil rig, it better test out as big. Many do not. By design, the best areas have the strongest eco protections and are not leased. Unused leases revert to the feds after 10 years under current law.

The next lie propogated by Democrats is that the effect of drilling at home in ANWAR would take 10 years. There is some truth to that in that the physical oil will take 10 years to see. That would figure in 3-5 years to deveolp it, and 5-7 years of fighting endless environmentalist lawsuits and democrat obstruction and regulation. Get the assholes out of the way and we are looking at gas in our tank in 3-5 years.

As far as more production moving prices, in the short term, any extra oil production would move the price of the oil markets significantly. The futures market is emotion and news driven as much as it is by supply and demand. News that the ANWAR field will be opened will move the market down. For 3-10 years each positive news release about progress developing it will move the market down. Finally the extra oil will move the market down when it is developed and hits the supply.

Institute for Energy Research artcle, 2
The Hard Facts:

97 percent of Federal offshore areas are not leased.
94 percent of Federal onshore areas are not leased.

Getting Blood From a Turnip

After the offshore drilling moratorium was implemented in 1982 the Department of Interior could only issue leases for areas that had already been offered/leased before, or those areas with little or no economic energy potential. The exception was when Congress provided incentives to invest in Ultra Deep Waters in 1995 to stimulate production in areas that were previously too deep for our technology to reach.

(A graph is shown, then the article states) As the charts to the right illustrate, interest in American energy leasing declined after the moratorium. It remains low for the same reasons. If Congress were to open new areas to production, leasing would increase and so would domestic supplies of energy. Until then, the U.S. will simply be continuing its attempt to squeeze blood from a turnip.

Link: http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/13/truth -about-ocs/

Institute for Energy Research article, 1
The Claim: “Energy companies are not using federal lands already open to energy development”

Some lawmakers state that oil companies currently hold millions of acres of leases that are not producing. This is true, but not for the reasons politicians would have you believe. It seems the lawmakers would have us believe that oil and gas exist beneath every acre of every lease the government issues; that obtaining a lease was a virtual guarantee that the lease holder would strike oil and gas, or both. Obviously, that’s false. If it were true, who wouldn’t be on line at the Department of Interior trying to buy an acre or two for themselves?

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees. Oil and gas might be found during the exploration phase of the lease, or it might not. This process, and those that involve satisfying all of the government requirements, defending against frivolous environmental lawsuits, and preparing to drill if energy is found can take a long as a decade.

Continued on next post...


GD Socialists Here
I see socialists rubbing their hairy mitts with glee on here. Disgusting. "Buy a Prius. It's your ego stopping you. Drilling won't make any difference. It'll take 20 yrs..." and more BS.

We are the nation that defeated Japan and Germany simultaneously. We put men on the moon, built the Shuttle, and landed on Mars. We can certainly get our own oil out the ground fast and cheap.

Oh please. If I want a HUGE HUMMER, it is my right to have one w/o subsidizing terrorists. I want a giant hydrogen powered land yacht that requires 3 subcompact parking spaces. I want my house at 72 year round 24/7. I want inexpensive quality food, and to be the country that feeds the world. The Shining City on the hill.

Those are our rights as Americans. We can have anything we want.

This is the fault of Congress
That you two could dare to show your "in Congress since 1996" faces in public is beyond measure. Shame on you both. Shame on your families. You have conspired to sell out the Republican party and the American public. The article you've written represents a pathetic contrivance prefaced by a COMPLETE lack of bills offered on ANY of this subject matter from 1996 to 2004.

Republicans have been forced to use procedural motions because good men were absent when America needed them.

Bring On The Nukes
My suggestion: a Manhattan Project/Apollo Moon Landing program to develop and implement the following:

PEBBLE-BED REACTORS. Safe, high efficiency, small (so you can put them underground in clusters of a half-dozen, not lose your entire plant when one goes down), easy to build, modular.

SUPERGRID TRANSMISSION PIPELINES. Underground pipelines containing both liquid hydrogen and superconducting cables (cooled by the hydrogen). VERY high efficiency energy transmission, as both electricity and hydrogen. Somewhat surprisingly, they also STORE a great amount of energy, both in the in-transit hydrogen and in the magnetic field generated by the superconductors.

Starting from right now, both technologies could be up and running before a new oil field could be productive.

Mr. Bush, Lead or Leave

This is a great Op-Ed all should read!

NYT-Two years ago, President Bush declared that America was “addicted to oil,” and, by gosh, he was going to do something about it. Well, now he has. Now we have the new Bush energy plan: “Get more addicted to oil.”

Actually, it’s more sophisticated than that: Get Saudi Arabia, our chief oil pusher, to up our dosage for a little while and bring down the oil price just enough so the renewable energy alternatives can’t totally take off. Then try to strong arm Congress into lifting the ban on drilling offshore and in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

It’s as if our addict-in-chief is saying to us: “C’mon guys, you know you want a little more of the good stuff. One more hit, baby. Just one more toke on the ole oil pipe. I promise, next year, we’ll all go straight. I’ll even put a wind turbine on my presidential library. But for now, give me one more pop from that drill, please, baby. Just one more transfusion of that sweet offshore crude.”

read more

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/mr-bush-lead-or-le ave

the desert dweller
It is hardly right wingers who have been saying for years that we NEED high gas prices.

As for the speculators, I agree that they have ramped up the prices due to de-regulation. But let us not blame this current, "leader who does not care" as you called him, since the deregulation that made this possible took place under one Bill Clinton. As for congress, they could push for regulatory legislation whenever they like. Why have they not? In case you missed it, republicans no longer set the agenda in congress.

And what is the democrat solution? Hold onto your hat! More taxes! The be-all end-all solution for every problem in the mind of a democrat is higher taxation. "If we take their profits and remove all there tax breaks, THAT will make the cost of gas go down." In what alternate universe would that work? We are constantly told that the oil companies are populated by a bunch of greey SOBs right? So then, why would those same greedy SOBs just sit back and eat an increased tax burden?

And Psst. Little reality check for you. Solar power is pathetic. We are not talking about a new technology here. Solar power has been studied for decades, and the energy return is still laughably small.

Yes oil will eventually go the way of the steam locomotive. Alternatives will supplant it. But let us put our energy into the alternatives with the greatest potential return on our investment. Right now, that is nuclear. Not wind. Not solar. Both of those have been toyed with for a long time and not made many great strides.

DavidM... 2
There is not one thing you wrote that reflects anything I posted or believe. Before unions, before labor laws, we were not nearly the powerful world force we are. After those systems were put in place we had a baby boom & a social contract between business & the population that propelled us to world domination. Protecting the middle class has nothing to do with all the crazy things you throw at me. You've lost all perspective because of the bubble you live in, the very bubble cerated by those who had the wisdom to regulate & create an economy of profits for everyone, not just the rich. A man who works hard all day creating something is just as valuable, maybe more so, then a guy who rearranges chess pieces using spreadsheets & assistants. We are only as strong as the least of us. If you doubt that then talk to someone in Africa. Or read the words of Jesus. This isn't about handouts, this is about the working class man having the same right to keep his share of the pie, the pie he contribute to.

Putting it all into the gas tank, shutting down businesses, car plants, creating a recession all in the name of profits for a tiny minority... You are unfit, irresponsible & foolish in your knowledge of history, markets or human nature.

DavidM...
DavidM, What are you talking about, you sound like you are telling us all your fears or false understandings of the system.

What is a fire deptartment? A police Department? The military? Why do you think every single thing in the world has to be run for profit to deliver? Has it ever ocoured to you that greed is not always a good thing. I lost 50% of a stock because the CEO cooked the books for a bonus instead of reporting the real earnings. This stuff happens in life, it's reality. We need very strict oversight and regulations or else our financial system will be vunerable from those who allow greed to dictate their actions.

And contrary to your delusions, oil is of this Earth and is tied to the stability of the world. Our government has granted these companies access to our federal land. The least they can do is get it to market & knock down prices. what are you smoking?

Do you know anything about history, about robber barons, about Hitler, about Stalin, about the tulip craze? Why do you people like that no longer exist? People like that still do & that's why you are paying $4 for gas. reTarded!

Regarding all this liberal I hate profits crap, you are crazy. I trade & make more then most people doing nothing real. I, more than 99% of you, have no beef with making money & haven't had to do a thing I didn't want to in the last 10 years. And I'm under 50. Not bad if I say so myself.
But watching so many of my fellow Americans believe in lies, from either side of the political spectrum, is disturbing. It's the dumbing down of our collective intelligence to see working class people defend those who are already rich & literally stealing from them for a commodity as necessary as gas. I don't get it.

???
Which moron wrote this.

I say a 500% tax on all Dimocrats who buy gasoline. Let's see how long they like being screwed!

Responses...
You people are missing neurons.
I never said solar would rule. But it will be a major player in 50 years. So what about nighttime? Tap into the grid when the sun goes down. You couldn't figure this out? If acquire 30-50% of our energy from the sun with no environment or resource costs beyond the manufacturing of the cell then we will be making REAL progress. If nuclear & whatever else we come up with powers the public grid we're are going to be in even better shape.
How can some of you be so dim that you see issues that don't exist? That's like saying if a wheel is missing from my car its never going to work. Well put another wheel on! Close minded ideologues are embarrassing.

Windfall taxes on blockbuster movies. you're retarded if you can't distinguish the difference between a luxury or a product that is necessary to world stability. If OPEC cut us off we would start WW3. Any substance that powerful should not be left for either the manipulation of foreign governments or the greed of a few speculators & oil executives.

Regarding the cost of oil, OPEC's costs are widely believed to be $2 per barrel. Drilling in the gulf, probably $25-$30 max. Regardless, there's no shortage & it should not be selling for more the $50 a barrel. We are being hosed by a leader who really doesn't care anymore & general lack of repsonsible oversight by the congress. But only the Democrats are actually looking into the issue & attempting to make the companies put up or shut up. Drill now on your leases or pay a fine for sitting on them during this economic crisis.

Why does the right fear the effects of environmentalism but is blind to the crippling effect of $4 per gallon gas? If your own side screws you that's ok? How about dropping the garbage from Hannity & friends & stand up for truth. You're paying $4 for gas because you're married to your misunderstandings of the way the world really works & failed conservative theory.

desert school of ignorance
You hate liberty and freedom. Why don't you admit you can't stand when someone does something and PROVIDES for other citizens and makes a profit doing it.

People like you are tyrants in 'the publics good' clothing. If someone buys land ,pumps oil and provides gasoline you want to take the reward for providing the goods and service. In laymans terms this makes you(and Barack ) common theives. Dress it up all you want, but its all you are in the end.

Government has done lots of evil in the last century, yet capitalism cannot make profits WITHOUT helping other people. Private property is an absolute requirement for freedom and liberty, which is probably why you hate it so vehemently. Facts stare you in the face and you continue spouting your jibberish. I think we should take all YOUR land and property.

PS. Schooling implies facts, you had zero in your post.

Windfall
why are there calls for windfall profits only on oil companies?

When movie producers have a blockbuster, why dont those profits get taxed as windfalls? Titanic, Lord of Rings, etc come to mind.

Here is how it will play out. No new refineries (there is one being designed for Bakken oil up in the Dakotas, but it may never get built when gasoline demand drops.)

Second, more electric power will be needed to recharge the plug-in hybrids and pure electric vehicles. These wont be nukes, either, but will be natural gas-fired. The technology, called combined-cycle, allows for at least 70 percent energy efficiency. Nothing else comes close to that. The capital cost is also very low on these plants.

A key here is to watch companies building more and more LNG plants to ship natural gas around the world.

And to the earlier poster who stated that solar technology will rule, sorry, there is a bit of a problem with that. Sun does not shine at night, and storage of electricity is virtually impossible at the scales needed. Some effort is being made to store solar-powered heat as hot oil, but there are technical difficulties.

Hey, desert-dimwit! where U? got anything you want to argue?

150 MPG SUV
is available in the next few months from http://www.AFSTrinity.com. This is demonstrated, commercial technology, no pipe dream. Their SUV was demonstrated for all to see and tested by experts in the Detroit auto show, January 2008.

The game will change when only 10 percent of Americans drive such vehicles.

And the earlier poster was correct that rational oil companies are not building new refineries. The fact is that refineries have been expanded since 1985, but only by 50 percent. Current capacity is around 18 million barrels per day, capacity back then was around 12. You could look it up. Try the EIA website.

Now that CAFE standards were increased to 35 mpg, and with the plug-in hybrids here, gasoline demand will drop like a rocket. So will gasoline prices.

Another big factor is the huge refinery in India that will start up in September 2008. It is a big mother at 580,000 barrels per day. That alone will supply enough gasoline to drop the prices.

desert
ok, dude, I am a chemical engineer with three decades of real world oil refinery experience.

Your rants are so far off they are hilarious. Take your best shots, dude. This ought to be interesting.

First, oil does not cost $2 to produce. Even ExxonMobil, probably the best in the universe at this, (you could look it up), has to pay about $10 per barrel on average. Nobody else is even close.

And that depends very much on the oil field and lots of other factors. Artesian oil wells flow on their own. No pumping required. Others require lots of help in the form of CO2 injection, gas reinjection, and pumps to pull it out of the ground.

Bring it, dude. I will debate on here until the heck freezes over.

More lies by the right
The powerline link is pure meaningless propaganda. Sure, the facts are true, but they don't mean a thing. Where is the rights ability to think critically?

We have already leased out huge known oil reserves to the oil companies in the gulf and they are sitting there un-drilled & are instead choosing to buyback shares with their profits. You can't be this slow, are you really this slow? WOW, that's a mind blower.

Fact; Exxon made 40 billion in profits last year while spending 32 billion in share buybacks. So now, in 2008, The Dems want to 'tax' them if they don't actually start drilling in current leased lands. But if they drill, bingo, no new taxes. So what are the republicans doing in the real world? NOTHING except writing articles and making TV appearances talking about drilling off the coasts & ANWAR.

You all are so stupid, this is just a political propaganda war to accomplish 2 things, get leases signed for the next 50 years so they can sit on them doing nothing for now and getting idiots to blame the democrats for the failings of the Conservatives who have actually been the policy creators of this energy mess. Every attempt to up CAFE standards… blocked by the right. Every effort to fund new energy, blocked by the right. But deregulation of financial markets along with huge giveaways to oil companies for 25 years and we get $4 a gallon gas, housing credit crisis, jobs lost to cheap immigrants, etc.

You still haven’t figured it out, free markets that don’t value the working class but only profits have created everything you don’t like; from forcing parents to both work leaving our kids alone in the day, healthcare inflation, loss of middle class values & work ethic, now its get all you can get, crap on TV because it sells, inflation of life’s necessities with deflation of toys like computers & TV’s, blah blah blah. Dumb Conservative policy.

Vote them out!
The current, high oil prices are the deliberate invention of the Democratic party. They have opposed the drilling of domestic oil sources and the building of refineries as part of an ignorant, economically insane plan to "force" the US to develop alternatives -- as though US corporations are not forsightful enough to work on alternate energy sources without Democrats looking over their shoulders scolding them.

The reason alternatives have not been used widely so far is that none of them produces energy as cheaply as fossil fuels. Some alternatives are good ideas, but they're not ready for prime time.

Meanwhile, Democrats think that by forcing YOU to pay half your weekly budget for gasoline, they'll speed up a process that's already been underway for decades. They're brainless control freaks on steroids. Kick 'em out.

Democrats are also responsible for the fact that nuclear power was abandoned in the US while the rest of the world was building them safely.

Vote 'em out!

(Unrelated to this topic, please visit my political blog, "Plumb Bob Blog: Squaring the Culture," at http://www.plumbbobblog.com. Click on my nickname and follow the links on my townhall blog. Thanks.)

School for DAVIDM
None of my business?
That's the perverse world some Conservatives dwell in. Get real, we fight wars for oil, oil is necessary for the production of food for the world, for the delivery of everything from toys like TV's to medicine that keep people alive. Are you On Crack or just so irresponsible that you don't know the difference between a computer companies right to profit vs. an oil industry right to sink the world into a recession for profits? The war in Iraq was primarily for oil security even though it backfired.

None of my business? You're way off. That's like saying it's none of our business if a cure was found for cancer but the company decided to hold back production to boost profits while people die & the health care industry get bankrupted. You believe in a system closer to evil then the liberal commie you fear. Life is in real time, you keep looking at the demons of the past or the ramblings of Hannity but in reality are blind to the demon inside of you that actually thinks its good public policy to sink the world into a recession for profit. How many Conservatives do I have to take to the woodshed because they're so empty of intellect & character but only running on the fumes of Rush's Gas? So evil, in the name of profit, well that's OK. Who you gonna defend next, the drug dealer who steals lives for profit? Look, I liked Scarface as much as the next guy but ruining lives all in the name of profits should not be celebrated in the real world where we actually need a stable society where people celebrate lives of creativity, not pilferism!

Some things really do belong to all of us such as the air we breath. Considering how much oil is ingrained into our lives it's not that much different then air & needs to be regulated. It cost .25 cents a gallon to make & we're looking at a recession because broken markets are charging us $4 + a gallon.

Operation Drillbit!
Have you called your Congress today?

Have you called your Senator, your governor?

Better still, go to your nearest hardware store buy a DRILLBIT and mail it to your non-representative, include your name and address and just one line:

Drill here, drill now, for lower prices.

They'll get the message.

VOTE DEM OUT!!!
I have commented before about these politicians who treat their employers (us...the fools who voted them into office) like the French aristocracy treated the peasent class in 1790's. Well, it is 2008, we are Americans with the greatest Democracy on the planet...ever. We do not throw violent revolutions or use a guillotine. We do, however, have a revolution every November (and other times under special circumstances). It is called voting.
We, the employers of these greed filled, strangely directed aganda driven (what are they doing?), control freaks must vote them out and continue to vote these slugs out until one with enough cajones performs.

Nuclear... YES!!!
Nuclear...
That's another issue often brough up in tandem with the price of oil even though electricity is generated from coal, nukes, water, wings, solar, etc.

BTW- You're welcome Steve, regardless of all this you get it!

Digressing, we should build at least 45 nuclear plants over the next few years, fast track them using a few standard designs that once approved can be duplicated everywhere & workers can easily transfer to any plant for maintenance & operations.

So I'm not an evil liberal after all!!! How tree hugging groups of basically nice people, especially the hot vegetarian chicks who have bodies to die for, ever got labeled as evil is beyond me. They're actually quite nice as they smoke pot & discuss the greatness of Jesus before becoming real close friends. And I'm not trying to be funny here, I'm serious & been there. Nice! Maybe that's what's wrong with many wingnuts, they're frustrated because they're either stuck with an obese woman who eats too many generic Walmart twinkies or their hot wife holds out because they're such a hard nosed dick most of the time that she gets too many headaches. It's one or the other, I guarantee it.

But I'll tell you all something, I have a friend that heads up the alternative energy group for one of our biggest investment banking institutions. And contrary to what many believe, the latest generation of solar technology is phenomenal & will be a major player in the future & could easily provide reliable consistant energy once the prices come down and mass market availability is a given.

But Nuclear, absolutely. Right now we are putting literally tons of CO2 and radiation into the atmosphere every single second.

Green or not, that ain't cool. Even if you don't buy Global Warming, who wants to see epidemic's of lung cancer, asthma, bronchitis, etc. in the next few centuries. And that will happen if we keep pumping this crap into the air.

desert dwelling dim-bulb
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/06/020696.php

That is a FACTUAL tally of who is blocking drilling/refineries.

Not only that but its NONE of your business what profits are made by oil companies, it is made legally and the investors in them are entitled to the rewards.

I guess you skipped economics in school huh? What do you think investors will happen to the price of oil when you ratchet up taxes on oil companies?

What do some of you people want
By the content of some of the posts many are absolutely orgasmic on the current energy situation that this country is in.
I guess seeing the majority of your fellow
Americans suffering is becoming national sport for the left. Either some of he more sophomoric posts are from those that are still wet under the nose living with parents or those that are considered adults and still living with their parents.
Why do you on the left torture the rest of America so. We can't drill for oil, we can't build oil refineries, we can't build nuclear power plants, we can't upgrade our electrical grid that is operating at capacity, we can't even build wind turbines because no one wants them on or near their property.
So what in thunder or we supposed to go to work on, hot air from all the political diarrhea of the mouth?
What do you call ten thousand environmentalists at the bottom of the sea?..... A good start.




Following Big Oil's Marching Orders...
As McClellan revealed, shills like Hannity are faxed daily instructions, and you guys have fallen right into the trap.

Just do the math - drilling and refining will yield single digit increases by 2030 according to the government's own study.

But you can double your fuel efficiency tomorrow by trading in your pick-up for a Prius, Honda Fit or other model (including a few US makes).

So let's compare. 5% in twenty years, or 50% overnight.

Aha! You won't drive a little deathbox, you say? Well then look in the mirror, it's really your ego driving you, not necessity.

It's not your fault, you've been trained since birth to be a childlike consumer of for-profit manufacted goods. So look at the price at the pump and start to grow up. Happy birthday! You can be an adult now.

tedmug 6:39 PM EST
"Oil companies do not extract, let alone drill, on leases that they already possess because the extraction costs for those used up, depleted leases are not profitable."

We aren't talking about old leases, but rather new, unused leases that the oil companies are allowing to lie fallow and undrilled because they make more money from leaving the oil in the ground. They would be hugely profitable to drill now, but will be many times more profitable to drill 10-20 years in the future. Corporate savings plan, for all those executives with deferred compensation and stock options.

We need to drill now.
We need to drill now,not in five years not, in one year,but right now.

Bottom Line
And the bottom line answer according to nit wit desert dweller is the same as Reid/Pelosi/Obama. No nuclear energy, no more drilling, no more refineries. And what are you conservatives doing to solve the energy crisis?

Awesome intellect cave dweller.

Modern Conservatives Are Stupid!!! 5
Now...
Can one of you refute the of what I’ve shared here based on actual legislation instead of Hannity insanity and that it’s the republicans interfering with attempts to force the oil companies to drill by blocking all attempts to do anything legally?

Remember, its the Dems trying to force them to drill on approved leases or pay a fine.

Its the Dems trying to force them to pay a tax if they don't invest more in production.
It's the Dems who are actually reviewing the data that the speculators are driving prices well beyond supply & demand & doing the hard work of governing.

What are the republicans doing? NOTHING but getting on TV talking about drilling while blocking any legal moves to make the companies drill. And now, they're talking about building refineries when no actual oil company is interested in a new one.

How can any of you misinformed souls continue to deny facts. Look up senate records & testimony. Look up what was really in the windfall tax bill. Look up how refineries have been continuously expanded over the last 30 years despite the lies of the right. Look it up,. Turn off Rush & vote for who is really trying to get something done.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, Sean Hannity, my lord & Savior, says we need to drill & pull ourselves up by the bootstraps. That’s the answer! Pathetic. The oil isn’t nationalized anyway; it wouldn’t be ‘ours’. It would belong to Exxon who would sell it to the highest bidder. There is no such thing as domestic oil in terms of world markets. That’s as dumb as saying that because Ford makes a car & Hyundai makes one that it will somehow help me if Ford makes a few more. Unless Ford wants to sell it to me for an American Citizen discount how will it help me if Ford makes a few more cars? Think my fellow retarded Conservatives in heat!!

PS, it's been fun cleaning your guys clock!!!

Modern Conservatives Are Stupid!!! 4
EDUCATE yourself. Corn didn't go up because the ethanol program used all the food supply, it went up because the speculators, after contracts were signed & laws were passed, decided to target the corn supplies since it was a sure bet after our government made the commitments. They essentially are betting on the race after it has been run. In stocks you never know what the company will do. But commodities are a sure thing; we need this stuff to live on. But the dumb deregulating republicans dismantled the regulations that prevented these huge banking institutions & pension funds from gambling on the necessities of life. This is the housing/mortgage bubble part 2 except the losers this time will be every American with a pension fund that goes belly up when this bubble pops. Oil costs $2 a barrel to produce. This is a bubble fueled by your mama’s pension fund thanks to deregulation. What’s next? Educate yourselves on how the modern economy really works, not the Hannity Fantasy or the Rush Mush.

Go To school or something and turn off the radio, its making you all very dumb, paranoid and ruining the good left in the Conservative movement!

the_desert_dweller
Because of the volume of your B.S I do not have the time to rebut you point by point. But you are a shill and a liar. Oil companies do not extract, let alone drill, on leases that they already possess because the extraction costs for those used up, depleted leases are not profitable. There is oil there but it is difficult and cost prohibitive to extract. Peddle your communism where it is worshipped without question, Marxist scum.

Modern Conservatives Are Stupid!!! 2
. They could be drilled NOW but the rigs cost hundreds of millions to set up which cuts into profits. CEO's get paid on shareholder value & short term profits so they minimize new investments & buy shares back to increase the prices of all outstanding shares. Our modern business model values share performance more then investments for the future.

Are you all just stupid, you blame the left for a business decision of the oil companies which are neither left nor right. This is how poisoned your brains are. You can't even apply basic thinking skills to the obvious because it conflicts with your deranged hatred of the left & offends your love affair with oil companies that couldn't care less about you.

The Democrats bill would give the oil companies 3 choices; pay a windfall tax, invest in alternative energy OR drill more with that all those profit instead of buying back shares.

How is that punishing achievement? Oil is a national security issue. The US potentially getting served up a recession is serious stuff. But you wingnuts blame everybody but your cheating spouse for the betrayal!

You guys are so misinformed that it's like debate with pre programmed robots. You say these stupid things such as; Republicans have been trying to drill but have been blocked by the left. What planet do you live on or have you ever thought that maybe Rush is lying to you all? Maybe the protesters on the left make the news more but
actual democrats in power are the only ones even trying to get something done here. Even the lame duck president is doing nothing but giving speeches that are lies about the left. He’s the president! If he can launch a war I’m sure he could actually do something to address the oil price problem. How dumb do you have to be to live in the right wing world that says the crazies on the left, who don’t shower & have nothing better to do but stand around picketing, have more power then the actual real man we call president?

Modern Conservatives Are Stupid!!!
You all are amazing!!!

I'm not a liberal, I'm in the middle but was an activist Conservative for about 15 years until we won it all & they spent more then any democrat government in history, gave us a national debt that could lead to bankruptcy & couldn't even competently execute a war in a country the size of California because they fought it using conservative principles; which are to do it cheap as possible, privatize as much of it as you can & ignore what the people on the ground are reporting, ignore the little man. And in the process completely dropped the ball on the real war which was terrorism rooted in Afghanistan. They chose to fight a war for oil instead of actually a war on terror. Look into it you fools, Cheney, Rumsfield, etc. were lobbying Clinton in 1998 to take Iraq. 911 was an excuse. This is all public record. Google the 'Project for the new American century' and open your eyes. 12 billion a month but you wingnuts want to worry about welfare mothers & redistribution or complain because we send a fraction of that to save lives in Africa. Good family values I suppose.

Regardless, all you powerful anonymous wimps can call me names like liberal, & use labels to cover your ignorance of the facts simply repeating right wingnut talking points that are simply not true.

RW, can you read? Have you ever done taxes? Don't you know people will change their behavior to avoid taxes next year if the laws change? You all can't be this stupid... Punishing achievement? You sound like Sean Hannity but no one is attempting to punish achievement.

Refute this or get back into reality my friends:

Right now, 6-23-08, there are 10's of thousands of acres ALREADY approved for drilling in the gulf. Official oil industry explorations, which are usually kept secret to throw off the competition, are that 21% of them have huge commercial reserves.

Maybe, Perhaps--
Maybe some of the people who blog on to these Town Hall discussions have heard this story or one similar to it concerning the MPG of a full sized automobile: An older mathematician friend of ours who had done extensive traveling related this interesting story: Our friend told of a "story or rumor" of a Danish mechanic who had developed a complex carburetor system that he had installed in his full sized Swedish made car that ran on gasoline. This system allowed him to get an average of 65 MPG at 60 MPH. allegedly he was about to market this system but was convinced to sell it at a very large "price" to several oil companies. He could keep it in his car but could not sell it. What happened to the prototype system? No one one knew but could only guess.
The question remains if this is fact, can a system such as this be developed?? I have asked several mechanics through the years and they indicated "possibly but highly complex".

The question is whether any one on this thread knows any stories similar to this or is this only someones pipe dream??

STOP MUDDYING THE WATERS!
Wind, solar, biomass, blah blah blah have NOTHING to do with gasoline, diesel, kerosene, jet fuel etc. for transportation. I can't put sunshine or wind in the gas tank of my gasoline burning car. Why do politicians, pundits, et al keep mentioning these alternative fuels for electricity in the same breath as increasing domestic supplies of oil and gas?

Unless you believe in global warming there is no reason at all to consider alternatives for producing electricity since we have centuries worth of coal in our own backyard. I personally support nuclear but am not concerned about using additional coal.

Electric cars that have adequate power and mileage are decades away if they even ever become viable. So these morons need to stop discussing wind, solar, etc. when discussing transportation.

My two cents......
1. A windfall tax is designed to allocate profits more effectively? Gee, I thought it was just a way to pander to voters. But, than again, you probably believe that the new Obama plan to collect payroll tax on wages over 250K is a good idea, as well, and not another bit of empty rhetoric.

2. Where is the limit for the windfall tax? When would it kick in? At a dollar figure or a profit margin? Last I heard, profit margins were running in the neighborhood of 10%. So, is the problem with the numbers, or the percentages?

3. Adam Smith stated that the commonwealth was best served by each individual acting in his own best interest only. He did not say that that decision should be made collectively.

4. You're actually going to accuse others of falling for ideology, and state that you can teach people? Wow......I don't have any use for the far right wing, and I think you and they should get together and go bowling. You're all about equally ridiculous.

C H
Newsflash for you...We will never get completely away from oil so stop with the pie in the sky nonsense.

dweller
A windfall profit tax is nothing more than punishing achievement. Compare the profits of oil companies versus most other companies and you'll see their profits are not execessive.

The Republicans are blocking drilling? They've been trying to get this done for a long time. As long as Clinton was President he had enough democrats in congress to prevent an override of his veto. Since Bush has been in office the democrats have filibustered the issue and have had sufficient numbers to prevent a filibuster breaking vote.

You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. They exist independent of you which is evidently more than you can handle.

Kuwull
My daughter just got done lecturing me about fast breeder reactors and voila I open this up read what you wrote! Thanks for affirming she is smarter than I am! LOL!! I knew I made her take physics for a reason...

And your mad cow description hits the mark. Good grief what a ridiculous rant he posted, but some don't want solutions they just want blame.


Kuwull 2:59 PM EST
"We had a fast breeder reactor nearing completion at Savannah River, SC, that is until the brilliant peanut head from Georgia shut it down and had it DISMANTLED to make sure a successor could not come in, restart and complete the program."

Are you talking about the Clinch River Fast Breeder? That's in Oak Ridge (TN), not the Savannah River Site. You may be confusing it with the reprocessing plant at Barnwell near SRS, but that certainly wasn't a reactor of any kind; strictly chemical reprocessing. Barnwell was decommissioned in 2006.

Carter suspended Clinch River because it was based on obsolete technology. He had DoE (then ERDA) design a much larger, up-to-date fast breeder reprocessor, but Reagan wasn't interested and it was allowed to die in 1983.

As I've said elsewhere, I was working for AEC/ERDA/DoE during that period, for Dixie Lee Ray.

did you here something?
I thought I heard some idiot named desert dweller bellowing. No, that was a mad cow?

iN-dESERT_dWELLER
You need to get out of the desert becuase the SUN has fried your brain or you need to get off that CRACK PIPE your smoking.

You LIBS and your Buddies the ENVIROS have been trying to put us back minto the Horse and Buggy days. Those days are over. You Libs have been doing this just to try and win votes at blaming someone else as usual, but yourselfs.

Im 54 yrs old and LIBS have been fighting us drilling since I can remember and I was once a STUPID LIB myself. So dont give us that WHINING ARSE excuse.

All you keep saying is we cant drill our way out of this, well we damn sure are not going to TAX our way out of this either. We used to drill up to 8 million barrels a day DOMESTICALLY in the 70 and 80 and now we only drill 4.5 million barrles a day. WHY?

Im sorry if you TREE HUGGERS care more about thew oookie boookie bug than you do human life itself but tough.

DRILL NOW and DRILL MORE.

I cant wait for China to start drilling off our coast so you WHINING ARSE LIBS can take the blame for OIL prices going up.

We elected you LIBS in 06 with the idea you told us YOU HAD A OIL PLAN, I see that your oil plan is NO MORE OIL DRILLING, well I hope that 70% of this country has been telling you that we need to DRILL NOW before we treat this like we did the ILLEGAL AMNESTY BILL.

GOOD LUCK, DRILL NOW

The Republicans are Blocking Drilling 4
Remember Adam Smith? apply that here... As smart as you think you all are can't you see that if you vote in your own best interests collectively you'll actually do more for the general commonwealth? But no, lets vote agaisnt our own interests so that Master will trickle down a few crumbs if he's in a good mood. Or to speak Engilsh, lets pay $4+ for a gallon of gas that costs .25 cent to make so that we can all be good little true conservatives standing by our principles while oil companies & traders make billions on the resources of the Earth. But our labor, our money & life's our energy has no more value then whatever we can be extorted for to buy something as necessary to our lives as air. Conservative Fools!!!

As a former member of your cult I actually feel bad for some of you because its tragic how the right wing media complex has turned you into real life skulls of mush, fear, paranoia & negativity towards any fellow human being who has your true best interests at heart. Its as if the Modern Conservative is every bit as brainwashed as these women in polygamist sex cults... Yeah, it's just about getting on the good side of GOD!

The Republicans are Blocking Drilling 3
I can see it already, book after book that Obama is an Islamic terrorist, one world government in the making, environmentalists risking humanity to save insects, etc. You all are crazier then those you oppose because you actually believe the fantasy the right wing weaves for your entertainment. Look at these books Gingrich writes where he re-writes history from a Conservative point of view. Don't you all get it? What's next, Santa Claus & the tooth Ferry are real & the liberals killed them to ruin our children's innocence? Conservatives aren't far from that, heck, when Colbert's lines could actually be said with a straight face by any number of Conservative pundits.... Well Houston, we have a problem!

Maybe I should start a blog here on Townhall and save some of you from the illogic and lies that the right wing punditry media complex has poisoned you with. Your intellect, your humanity, your personal lives, your grasp of how & what government really is, etc. all poisoned by the hate & ignorance of the Right Wingers on the radio getting rich on your backs. Then you do the ultimate... Vote against your own best interests.

The Republicans are Blocking Drilling 2
Definition of investment if you are an oil company?

DRILLING!

But the Conservatives in power have so little respect for the public & their own base that they figure your too stupid to figure out the game & will just blame the democrats when it was the right who blocked the only legal method to to encourage more drilling.

And after reading these posts, listening to conservative talk, I unfortunately have to agree with the literal robotic ignorance of the right as a whole. Blaming environmentalists, blaming democrats, blaming one world conspiracies, etc.

The Conservative movement is dead because there really isn't one anymore. All I see is a bunch of intellectual deadbeats who have been lied to for so so long & lead around by radio hosts & right wing pundits that you all have lost the command of the issues, of the reality of responsible governing, are in the pockets of big business through your convoluted logic, etc. It's as if the Modern Conservative is nothing more then a marketing campaign that uses tortured logic, fears & fantasy to get working class people to vote against their own interests.

Any High Schooler, after my quick tutorial, can understand my posts. But you all are so immersed in IDEOLOGY over facts & reality that you still call the obvious something other then what it is. In fact, some of you are so spaced out on right wing propaganda that you can't even digest or analyze my teachings here. And that's why the Conservative movement is about to be killed this November. Because of its partisanship, which only benefits pundits & those who make a living at dividing, the right wing base has been forced into a corner where it either argues for a flat Earth theory or risks being attacked from the inside as being a RINO who has no principles. Suicide by your own leaders who profit off million dollar radio & TV contracts, book deals, etc.

The Republicans are Blocking Drilling
School for uninformed CONSERVATIVES

What is a Profit? Distilled down it's the the difference between investment costs & the proceeds once that investment is sold.

What is a tax on profits? The amount of tax is calculated by multiplying the tax rate against the net profit after all expenses, loopholes, deductions, etc.

What is a windfall profit tax? A tax rate above the standard tax rate to force irresponsible companies to more effectively allocate their profit. Or reduce their profit to reduce their tax.

How do you reduce profit if you are an oil company? Drill more fossil fuel right now, explore more for the future & invest in alternative energy so that you have a viable business in 50-100 years.

So what really was the windfall profits tax? A legal attempt to force the oil companies to drill right now on already approved provable oil fields in the gulf. Buffalo wings aren't wing either. But we know what they are. How come Conservatives don't know what a windfall tax really is? Do you all informed conservatives know that the oil companies are not drilling in 80% of the leases they already have? Exxon spent 32 billion in share buybacks instead of drilling.

Why aren't the oil companies drilling more now? Because it costs money to drill & profits would be reduced if they had to spend millions drilling. You'll notice, no oil company is asking to drill, only conservatives on the radio & at the townhalls of the world.

The people on the center & the right say Drill drill drill. The Democrats in power sponsored a bill a few weeks ago that would actually produce results by forcing the companies to drill NOW.

But the Republicans blocked it. Then got on TV & said we need to drill, not tax the oil companies. But any person with a rudimentary understanding of the system knows that the tax never would have actually been paid because in order to avoid the tax you cut profits by investing more in the business.

MORE REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE LIES
The right seems to do nothing but lie on every issue if they can get you all to hate the left & vote the corrupt right in for another chance to overspend & rape the public trough for personal gain. At least the libs spend it on the people & the infrastructure instead of their corporate donors. And you all just soak it up like crack because you're married to ideology, not truth in context or reality!

MORE REPUBLICAN CONSERVATIVE LIES
Bush & the Rep controlled congress has had a standing offer to oil companies since 2003 or 2004 to d give them this land for free or almost nothing. And a streamlined approval process. The real problem is that no oil company is interested in spending on a new refinery because they already are making all time profits and refining is the least profitable phase of gas production. Simply stated, nobody want to built one. But the right thinks this is a good issue to pump the comatose base up.

Regarding the physical realities, sure, no refinery has been built for decades. But facts don't always convey truth & the Right just lies to you all like village idiots you are if you believe anything they say regarding energy. They have been in control of congress & the presidency & did nothing. Even with full control. And now gas is $4 a gallon. This is so obvious I don't see how anyone over the age of 5 or under 80 could vote for republicans. That is a vote against your own real interests.

Fact check; current refineires have been doubled, tripple, quadrupled in size over the last 30 years to add huge capacities. It's cheaper & more cost effec tive to expand current systems then build new ones because then you have to configure new ports, new routes to get the oil there, etc.

So yes, we haven't built a 'new' refinery in decades. But the reason is that no company wants to because it's cheaper & easier to expand currents units. And the expansions have been so huge that by all sane definitions, we've built many new refineries over the last few years. But just on the same property next to the original ones.

anwar
Bush did try an open up anwar but the libs put him down. These same libs want to blame investors for the current prices. You can convince idiot's if you repeat a lie often enough. We need every bit of energy we can drill, firment, and construct today so lets get started by letting our reps know how we feel.I live in an oil state and was involved in the oil production years ago. It takes years to build a deep water rig to use in thousands of feet of water which is one of the only areas available for them to drill in currently. Other areas would be less risky and the infastructure is there to do the land and inland waters.

On H.R. 2964
How fitting – the baboons in Congress are taking care of their own!

It is past time?
Ya, about thirty years. About right considering the level of concern. When was the term energy crisis coined? I can't quite remember. If a crisis requires thirty years of counterproductive policies, I wonder what the next thirty will bring.

"Ancient Rome declined because it had a Senate, now what's going to happen to us with both a House and a Senate?"
Will Rogers

"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for."
Will Rogers

I might also add
Fast breeder reactors also do something really neat while renewing those spent fuel rods........they generate electricity.

By the way, Veto,
Bush did propose opening up ANWAR to drilling, several years ago and was shot down by Congress.
He should do it as an executive order and then dare Congress to stop it.

manufactured problems
The energy shortage and insuant pricing is a manufactured problem. It has been manufactured by Al Gore, his Druids and the idiots in Congress who give total power to this handful of humanity haters.
This is no different than our nuclear waste problem. It is also a manufactured problem. Europe has little or no nuclear waste issue, nor does Japan. Why, you may ask? Because France has a fast breeder reactor which takes spent nuclear fuel rods, new plutonium and breeds the spent rods back up to the purity needed to be used again. Hence, little or no waste. We had a fast breeder reactor nearing completion at Savannah River, SC, that is until the brilliant peanut head from Georgia shut it down and had it DISMANTLED to make sure a successor could not come in, restart and complete the program. Why, again, you may ask? Because the same group of Druids, as above, needed to manufacture an industry long term nemesis in nuclear waste.
When are we going to stand this group of Druids against a wall and do the right thing?

What business model are you using?
Why would anyone invest in a NEW Oil refinery? When the government is publicly stating that America needs to get off oil why would you build something that all efforts are being made to make obsolete or at best unable to run at full capacity because of less demand?

If the current refineries are working at max output, what is the incentive to increase output, which increases supply and so you charge less and therefore make LESS PROFIT. What businees school did you go to?

Congress -- do we have one.
Congress PLEASE -- no more politics when comes to an energy fix. All of us dummies know there is no quick fix. And yes the price of oil will not drop in the near time if we start drilling for oil in the morning. Congress must think beyond their current term. Help us poor working folks get an energy fix. I do not care if it is Hydrogen, Water, Ethanol, Biodiesel, Electric or Wind. Send a message to the world that the USA will become energy independent which in itself will moderate the price of energy. A do nothing congress is at fault for the continuation of the speculators ability to drive up the prices of energy. I hope I will be able to afford my heating oil this winter here in the northeast.
VOTE OUT THE RASCALS THAT DO NOT SIGN ON TO AN IMMEDATE ACTION INCLUDING THIS BRILLIANT IDEA OF USING CLOSED MILITARY BASES AS POTENTIAL LOCATIONS FOR NEW REFINNING FACILITIES.

The China irony
Did anyone notice that China's solution for declining availability of fuel domestically was to raise finished product prices to make their refineries PROFITABLE? This is how even communists use free markets as a solution! Why does our faux-capitalist government treat profit as evil? Our government wants more production but will demonize producers if they make a profit which they will then take away. Great deal! Where do I sign!

Our pristine military bases?
Kidding. No how about killing anything that even suggests that we need a "comprehensive" government energy solution? I am referring to the global warming crowd's magnum opus for world government based on mother earth religion: Cap and Trade.

I agree with the major theme but,
I do wish they would not use the language of the liberals which indicate at least partial agreement with the radical environmentalists.

For instance we are not "addicted" to oil. We drive cars and heat with devices that require the use of oil. That's not addiction. That is the result of technological progress. This is all made possible by the greatest distribution system ever developed, as well as the most spectacular transportation system even seen.

I also wish they would have added nuclear energy as a real alternative, since we can actually use it with today's technologies. The other pie-in-the-sky fantasies like wind and biomass seem again, to pander to the enviro-wackos.

But bottom line, I agree with what they are trying to accomplish here.

Finally
Where have you guys been? Thank you for finally speaking up and making an effort to save our economy that the dims are determined to destroy.
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