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Tuesday, April 21, 2009
Rebecca Hagelin :: Townhall.com Columnist
Boy Scouts
by Rebecca Hagelin
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It's time someone stand up for the young men of this country.

Despite the negative images of males that the pop culture shoves down our throats, the hearts and souls of America's boys are begging for positive direction. They naturally delight in "guy" stuff like rugged camping and "cowboys" when they are young because they truly want to be protectors - to be the good guys. Anyone who has ever been around a five-year-old boy knows that he desires to be a super-hero who saves damsels, children and the elderly from evil. But as guys age they are constantly pounded by images of lazy or sexually predatory images instead of courageous, genteel protectors - and some grow confused. Radical feminism doesn't help - many teen boys even wonder if they are supposed to be polite anymore. Too many have opened the door for what they thought was a young lady, for instance, only to be screamed at by a suddenly vicious and angry female. Why would they want to take that risk again?

Click here to subscribe to Townhall Magazine and receive a free copy of Rebecca Hagelin's book, 30 Ways in 30 Days: How to Save Your Family.

Turn on the television for 30 minutes and show me how boys and men are portrayed - you can watch just about any station at any hour and the image will be the same. When sit-coms and commercials contain family groups or interactions between the genders, the man is usually stupid, lazy, and doltish.

If our media culture showed positive male images and if we actually put effort back into teaching boys that real men are also gentlemen, we would get more of the behavior our society needs to survive.

What the nation really needs are more Boy Scouts. And I mean that literally.

As a mother of two Eagle Scouts (now ages 20 and 21), I can personally testify about the tremendous positive impact that Scouting continues to have on their lives.

We spent ten glorious, fun years in Scouting working along side other parents who shared our commitment to making sure our boys were well-equipped to deal with anything life would throw at them. In looking through photo albums this weekend with my son who was home visiting from college, my heart was warmed with the memory of the many campfires, pinewood derby races, and badge ceremonies. I'll always be grateful for the image of my husband who was man enough to don the uniform too - green knee socks and all - in order to lead our boys and their friends as a Scout Master.

As I travel the country speaking to parents it is quite obvious that moms and dads need someone to help us teach our sons the character traits we so desperately want them to have. So, when I wrote 30 Ways in 30 Days to Save Your Family it was imperative to include a chapter I call "Dress Your Son in Respect". And the group I feature as the very best to show you how is the Boy Scouts.

Take the Scout Law, for instance. It outlines the characteristics of the type of men we all so desperately need in this country:

Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.

Scouting doesn't just stop with words and pledges, it shows boys how to become men marked by these invaluable traits.

My friend, columnist and author Marybeth Hicks says, "One of the best gifts we can give our boys is the social skills they need to be self-confident." As she points out in her great book, Bringing up Geeks, (which you can purchase at www.BringingUpGeeks.com) - the message our boys get from the culture is to be rude and self-absorbed. But we all know that doesn't work when you are an adult. We bless our boys when we raise them to be comfortable around other people, and to be able to put others at ease too." Being a Boy Scout may not be "cool". But it can help you raise what Marybeth calls, "GEEKS" - Genuine, Enthusiastic, Empowered Kids - kids who are happily "uncool".

And in our community of Richmond, Virginia, a group of committed parents made Scouting cool too. Some seven families with nine boys between us made the journey together with our little six-year-old Cub Scouts all the way through to strapping young adults who proudly reached the rank of Eagle. And, in the process, we created a lifetime of memories and a group of men now in their college years who fondly recall their childhoods and benefit every day from the lessons and skills learned.

Perhaps your son is in middle school or high school and you are getting a late start. No worries. Scouting has plenty to offer for young men unconcerned with rank, but still craving male camaraderie, the opportunity to experience the great outdoors and learn good "guy stuff". As a parent, you'll also be impressed by the quality and commitment of the families you meet through the Boy Scouts, and you will have found allies in the battle for the character of your sons.

You can contact the Boy Scouts of America through their website to find a local chapter. In the midst of a pop culture that would rob our young men of their dignity and best futures, thank the Lord for the Boy Scouts.

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About The Author
Rebecca Hagelin is a public speaker on the family and culture and the author of the new best seller, 30 Ways in 30 Days to Save Your Family.
 
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Girls
generally respond to real men who are: Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent (all from memory). Those girls who don't will come around after a few years with self-absorbed louts. Women respond to real men, and they themselves will flourish in that kind of loving relationship.

Any good scout knows how to "tie a knot" that will hold things together. That's what women want.

review
you're no Kathleen Parker.thank God

review
you're no Kathleen Parker.thank God

BSA

Rebecca, well said.

A great organization, and something that parents everywhere should seriously consider.

Some of the best memories I have.

Nice Article

Too bad Liberals oppose Scouting.

Joel
Amen. Scouting and JROTC are excellent programs for building character, maturity, and adaptational skills. So is 4-H. So was Junior Achievement, which I haven't heard much about in years. It's unfortunate that the first two are under withering assault, and the others seem to have dropped below radar.

Scouting
Yep! I visited my local troop a week before my 12th birthday (which was the minimum age at the time) so I would be sure to get my admission info right. I was EXCITED at the promise of being a scout. I still benefit from the fellowship I had with other guys and the precepts I learned 66 years ago! My scoutmaster of troop 7 was Samuel P. Owen - -

Thank You...
I want to thank you for your post. As a Scoutmaster in Maryland, I feel exactly the way you described what the country needs in its men. Society today is going to rubble, and I am proud of an organization that stands for values that make boys into Real Men! It is refreshing to read good accounts, and to hear someone in the public spotlight praise an organization as wonderful as the BSA. Thank you!

Getting Yelled At?
Do people really get yelled at for holding doors for women? That has never happened to me. I do live in the South, though.

Rebecca
"...You can contact the Boy Scouts of America through their website to find a local chapter. In the midst of a pop culture that would rob our young men of their dignity and best futures, thank the Lord for the Boy Scouts."

Back when I was growing up (yes, I became an eagle scout) the Boy Scouts and the NRA and most of the churches were community assets and indeed the glue that held our community together. Even WAY back in the early 60s our troop was a stew pot of diversity and we reveled in it and argued about it. Somehow with the dawning of conservatism, first the NRA followed closely by the boy scouts then a large segment of the communities' churches changed. They demanded everyone be "cookie cutter" people all agreeing the same thing. Then after that they began dividing the community into "others" which pretty much tore it apart. The community I was talking about is the nation not just my own.

BSA under seige....
Very good article. Thank you. My son also is an Eagle Scout. It served him well while in Iraq as a Soldier in USArmy. His battle buddy is also an Eagle Scout, he is from Miss. The combined knowledge of the both kept them alive to return home with all fingers and toes.

The attack on BSA a few years ago by groups of people determined to destroy the scout program because they would not allow perverts in leadership of these young boys is a mindset that is shamefull.

It has been well documented that maybe 1 out of 100 boys that go through the program and become Eagle find themselves in trouble with the law.

The United Way pulled their funding because Scouting would not give in to the pressure and back down letting homosexuals take these young lads to the woods for camping trips.

Support your local council directly by sponsering a young lad who might not be able to afford to go to summer camp. The BSA Council office will be listed in most telephone directery.

To ScooterNC:
You said it well.

I can remember the joy of helping my son to get his badges. Family get-togethers often lead to memories of some of his "projects".
I'm convinced that Scouts made him a better man AND helped him come through Desert Storm mostly unscathed.

It's been so many years since I was able to be a Mom to local cubs as they entered this fantastic program, but I still remember each boy - and our projects - clearly.

I praise the Scouts for having the courage to stand up to horrible social pressure to back downand cave in on their Godly standards.

As a great-grandmother, I am grateful there is still ONE group that we can safely entrust our young boys to, to guide them into becoming the wonderful and strong men they are capable of being.

Way to go- BSA!


The Collective Mandate
The liberals hate charities that are run privately from the collective.

The liberals will either pull them into the collective or destroy them.

The brown shirts for example were boy scouting under gay leadership.

It’s important to get all the young boys into a collective so they will worship the one male.

The women will be placed in a collective of worker Bees living in a bee-hive environment.

They will breed with who ever the one male tells them to breed with.

This is how it will be if we keep heading down this road no more self.

ScooterNC
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 8:42 AM EST
BSA under seige....attack on BSA a few years ago by groups of people determined to destroy the scout program because they would not allow perverts in leadership of these young boys is a mindset that is shamefull."

Not true at all. The attack is because they are becoming more and more an extreme right wing organization. They are not building a community as they always did; now they are dividing our community. They deserve zero public support

"...The United Way pulled their funding because Scouting would not give in to the pressure and back down letting homosexuals take these young lads to the woods for camping trips."

Actually that was not the issue but gays always were involved with the BSA and while often the butt of jokes no problem. Why kick them out now? So were pedophiles (much different than gays) and they were always weeded out and quickly by the boys and the parents. Would that the RC church had done as well

"...Support your local council directly by sponsering a young lad who might not be able to afford to go to summer camp. The BSA Council office will be listed in most telephone directery."

I will no longer contribute to the BSA. I will gladly change when they become a community building organization that they once were

AMEN-AMEN-AMEN
Thank you do much for your asrticle. I am an Sagle Scout(1967), and my son got his in 2007. He has gone on at age 18 to Scoutmaster Fundamentals and WoodBadge at age 19. I continue to work with the troop as COR and on the Ditrict level in fundraising and Eagle Boards of Review.

WE ask young men as part of their Eagle Board about their view of homosexuality in scouting. Every now and then, a young man thinks scouting is wrong-but most agree with scouting's stance.
After all, a scout is "morally straight".

Again, thank you for your article. With more articles like this, scouting can be restored to it's place as a great organization for helping raise young men.

loved the scouts
It helped me with my confidence and character. But since I'm gay - I'm sure Hagelin would demonize as evil as she typically does.

I agree with Donahue - Its quite sad that the Scouts have been hijacked by more extremists elements that is marginalizing the scouts. I also no longer support the BSA because of it.

LibTrolls
I usually ignore the trolls but I thought it useful to point out what an excellent example of Marxist tactics we have here in HD's posts.

Here we see complete fabrication expressed as undeniable historic truth without a shade of sarcasm or vitriol.

BTW The "dawning of conservatism" in this nation was 1776, not 1976.

When the sexually perverse began attacking the BSA, my husband and I began actively supporting it, though none of our children had ever been involved.

SORRY HAL
The BSA is not becoming more extremist right-wing. If it seems like it to some people, it's because society as a whole is less trustworthy, loyal, brave, clean, reverent, etc.

I was a scout nearly 50 years ago. My grandson is one now. It seems to me that scouting has changed remarkably little in that time.

Real Men
My comments goes farther than Boy Scout affiliation. Being a female I quite enjoy all of things that "great men" have brought to the table for centuries. For me I am sick to death of hearing raging feminists scream about men and how unimportant they are. Really, next time they park their behinds into their BMW's, fly in a plane, float around in a cruise ship, play a game of pool,ask yourselves who was the brainchild behind all of this stuff? I don't care if women had equal rights years ago...far from the point. Men and women are built different, that does not matter. As I see it,(I am in construction field, male dominated), most of the gals here I've worked with fail by comparision. Let's give kudos to men, they have worked hard to try and accomodate us, but it never seems to be enough! Most women have stretched themselves too far to be effective anywhere, to prove what and to whom?

To say that...
...that scouting has been hijacked by right wing extremists because they prohibit gay men from leading young boys only shows how far we have fallen to the god of political correctness.

Boy Scouts are apolitical for the most part recognizing citizenship in the community, the nation, and the world as vital elements of a good life. They are and were green before green became cool. They aren't politically green, they are conservation minded and trained to live in the outdoors with minimal impact. They do take a stand on religion and I think that is what galls liberals most. But they are as ecumenical as any organization of people I know. They learn to be safe and to help others. In a pinch, I would feel better surrounded by boy scouts than a random group of young men. The only weakness in scouting today is the loss of emphasis on being physically fit. Still, too many boysin scouting as out of it, are couch potatoes when they aren't out in the woods. But if anything is going to break them of sloth and snacking, it is going to be hiking and swimming and rock climbing outdoors in nature.

I think people misunderstand the Eagle rank. It is not an award or an honor. It is an achievement. A boy who has met the requirements for the rank of eagle is no doubt proud of the recognition. But even without recognition, he is a much better person for having met the requirements. I know... I earned mine in 1970.

I'm sorry Hal and Yoshi have such a poor opinion of BSA. I long ago quit supporting United Way at work because they quit supporting the Boy Scouts while continuing to support antithetical groups like planned parenthood. BTW, you don't hear about many boy scouts, and certainly not eagles knocking up their girlfriends or shooting up schools or dealing drugs or any of a number of anti-social behaviors. BSA is open to any and all boys, so IMHO it is obviously doing something right.

Mahatma-mama
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 9:30 AM EST
LibTrolls..we see complete fabrication expressed as undeniable historic truth without a shade of sarcasm or vitriol.

BTW The "dawning of conservatism" in this nation was 1776, not 1976."

Oh no you don't! You are reactionary conservatives. By any definition the founders were Liberals; your ilk back then would have been clinging to King and Crown.

"...When the sexually perverse began attacking the BSA, my husband and I began actively supporting it, though none of our children had ever been involved."

Oh stop it! Gays have little to do with it. It is tolerance for diversity whether sexual orientation, religion or any other "catagory". BSA abandoned its core values

FeedFwd
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 9:51 AM EST
To say that......I think people misunderstand the Eagle rank. It is not an award or an honor. It is an achievement...."

Well said see we can agree on something

"... BSA is open to any and all boys, so IMHO it is obviously doing something right."

Gay boys or boys without religion? Can the achieve or will they be denied?

Hal Donahue,
I don't know what the BSA is like in your area, but everywhere I've lived in this country (California, Florida, Massachusetts, and Houston) the scout troops I encountered were diverse - with members of all races and creeds.

Tolerance for members of other races was never even an issue, I've been Cub Leader to Caucasian, Asian, African-American and yes, American Indian boys. That's pretty diverse AND they all got along beautifully.

As for religious diversity, Baptists and Mormons are pretty much diverse, but likewise able to be friends.

The only intolerance I have EVER seen in the BSA is their rejection of "sexual orientation" variances. For which they are to be applauded because they continue to embrace their "core values".

BSA has NOT abandoned their "core values", they have continued to stand up for them, in spite of financial and political attacks.

Hal D.
YOU ARE AN EXTREMELY BLISSFUL PERSON

Doofass:
THe Boy Scouts like the Roman Catholic Church have principles, and remain true to them, unlike you are totally unprincipled.

Eagle Scout and Proud!
Loved my time in the scouts. Got to go to the 98/99 World Jamboree in Chile. My experiance as a patrol leader, senior patrol leader, junior assistance scout master, OA chapter chief, and organizing my Eagle Project definately helped me when I became a Marine Fire Team Leader and beyond.

I remember the last week of boot camp, during teh Btn Cmdr's inspection, my Bn Sgt Maj asked me what I got PFC for. When I told him it was for being and Eagle Scout, he shook my hand, said I had a bright future, and said that he admired the Scouts for sticking to their guns on the gay issue.

And Hal, the founding fathers were liberals by the classic definition, in other words, conservatives. We conservatives believe in limited government, so we certainly wouldn't have been siding with a tyranical king. Your argument is worn out and tired.

The scouts still are very diverse. My troop is a vertitable United Nations of ethnicities. The God and Country awards for Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, and various Protestant faiths are all held by members of my troop. This idea that the scouts have been hijacked by the "right wing" is lunacy. The scouts were, and still are, conservative. A scout is Clean. That is why we don't tolerate homosexual behavior.

Its too bad Obama wasn't a Boy Scout, he may have learned to love this country.

God Bless the Scouts!

Scouting
Scouting is the best program for boys in the world. It teaches them many things - especially that they can handle live problems if they try. But since they do so much better than the boys who don't take it (primarily because their parents don't care enough about them to want them to succeed) people have to ridicule it to make their poorer sons seem better. It also teaches them that there are freedoms and rights that they have and should exercise - which is different than what the government wants the youth to know and do.

Boy Scouts and Gays
Boy Scouting is for boys to learn and enjoy nature. It does not teach sex.

No boy is asked if he is gay. But ALL adults are. If gay, no adult is allowed to be a leader. Why? Because most gay leaders tend to want to teach sex. Too many of them want to do it by having sex with the boys. (Not all or even most of them probably - but too many still do. Any boy organization that pairs adult males with young boys will draw these type of people - sadly.)

The reason the Boy Scouts do not allow gay leaders is simple - few parents are interested in their sons being forced into this situation. And if you gays are upset because you can't join the group to push your sexual orientation, as a parent I say, isn't that just too bad? Clean up your group and you might get some attention. But as long as you include people like this in your group don't expect respect.

Karl B.
Sometimes men do get yelled at for holding doors - or doing other similar things. But the best reply I've heard was this:

An elderly gentleman paused to hold the door for a young woman. She paused at the door and said, "I certainly hope that you weren't holding the door because I am a lady."

"No, Ma'am," he replied. "I do it because I'm a gentleman."

45caliber
"It also teaches them that there are freedoms and rights that they have and should exercise - which is different than what the government wants the youth to know and do"

Good point. After doing the Citizenship in the Nation merit badge (required for Eagle Scout), I already knew the three branches of government and their roles, long before I took government class in school. As a result, I never got caught up in the whole "The President should/shouldn't do whatever" mentality, when the President legally can't/must do whatever. My response was always "Well, I hope the President signs/vetos this bill," which often puzzled my classmates.

Three Generations of Eagles
My father acheived the rank of Eagle in the late 30's, I received my Eagle rank in the late 60's and I have two sons who are Eagle Scouts.

Scouting's values are timeless and are needed now more than ever: respect for tradition, honor, honesty, integrity.

I can hardly wait for my grandson to join the Cub Scouts...another Eagle Scout in the making and, I am certain, another man of character like my father and my sons.

God Bless the BSA!

Call to action/No internet
Shutting down the internet.........yes obama-nation wants to do this

letters to my senator: About S. 773 & S. 778

These senate bills will give obama the authority to shut down free speech on the internet, email and call your senators. Google S. 773 and S.778 and get the truth.

With the passage of the bills, S. 773 and S.778, will end free speech as we know it protected in the constitution.

Our constitution is under attack daily that makes an Obama dictatorship more likely.

Please stand-up for the citizens that believe in the truths set down by our founding fathers, that we are a nation founded under God, not a man to have this much control over her citizens.

Please stand up for us, that is why you were voted in.

Well said
Thank you Ms. Hagelin. Well said.

Each of us have duties, to ourselves and to God and to our country. When adults figure this out and get involved in the lives of others, they can ROCK their world. It's all about setting a high bar in someone else's life, then helping them achieve that goal.

I've been a Cubmaster and Scoutmaster for 21 years and it's been the hardest, and the most rewarding journey of my life. I cherish the hard work and the sweet rewards, and wouldn't trade a minute of it for anything. There is nothing like the joy you feel when you watch your or someone else's son duck his head and receive the Eagle Scout scarf in his Court of Honor.

And to that, Ms. Hagelin, I say CONGRATULATIONS for your sons' achievements!

BE PREPARED.

45 Caliber
Good post except I dont believe the BSA has an official question on any application that asks if the potential leader is gay. This whole thing has been pushed to the spotlight by gay activism.

Ms. Hagelin
Good article.

Baradiel
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 10:48 AM EST...Hal, the founding fathers were liberals by the classic definition, in other words, conservatives. We conservatives believe in limited government, so we certainly wouldn't have been siding with a tyranical king. Your argument is worn out and tired..."

I guess you are the product of our decaying education system? By all definitions the founders were indeed liberals. They believed in individual ability and strength in community and in growing the nation with government assistance. They also believed that we were a nation of Christians and everything else but NOT a christian nation.

"...The scouts still are very diverse. My troop is a vertitable United Nations of ethnicities. The God and Country awards for Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, and various Protestant faiths are all held by members of my troop..."

You said you were military those communities always were diverse. Soon to be more diverse when DADT is done away with next year. What if a scout has no faith?

"... This idea that the scouts have been hijacked by the "right wing" is lunacy. The scouts were, and still are, conservative. A scout is Clean. That is why we don't tolerate homosexual behavior..."

LMAO you are a true bigot. Thank you for proving that the scouts have indeed been hijacked by conservatives. Clean????? LOL now you are telling me that gays don't wash and straights do? LOL

"...Its too bad Obama wasn't a Boy Scout, he may have learned to love this country."

Oh he loves this country alright and has devoted his life to turning it around. This country is a mere shadow of what it was years ago. You conservatives really have hurt the nation.


Doofass:
Like I have said earlier, the Scouts and the Catholic Church have principles. You have NONE.

BTW, Doofass,
You want to see a larda**ed, REMF, garritrooper, Sad Sack bigot look in a mirror.

Faith in private organizations
"What if a scout has no faith?"

If a child has no faith, he/she should be honest about that and refrain from joining a faith-based organization on false pretenses.

The real question here is, "Do private organizations have the right to determine who their members will be?" Conservatives believe they do. So, if an organization like the Boy Scouts wants to exclude atheists, agnostics, and homosexuals from their membership, they have the right to do so. Do you find that offensive? Fine -- don't join or support the Boy Scouts, then, but at least recognize their right to determine who their members are.

Scouts are cool
I have five nephews. Four of them have attained Eagle rank, and the fifth is halfway there. I have seen up close the excellence that is inculcated in the Scouts.

I would like to promote another excellent young men's organization. The Order of DeMolay. This organization is for young men 13-21, and it is sponsored by the Freemasons.

http://www.demolay.org


45caliber
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 11:10 AM EST
Boy Scouts and Gays
Boy Scouting is for boys to learn and enjoy nature. It does not teach sex."

Is this true? There is no discussion about sex with all those hormones raging?

"...No boy is asked if he is gay. But ALL adults are..."

Why? Even if the parent want to be a leader?

"... If gay, no adult is allowed to be a leader. Why? Because most gay leaders tend to want to teach sex. Too many of them want to do it by having sex with the boys. (Not all or even most of them probably - but too many still do."

WOW you are completely ignorant? Gays are not pedophiles. The VAST majority of pedophiles are heterosexual even if their child target is the same sex as they are. You really need to be educated about what is going on you are literally babbling nonsense

"... Any boy organization that pairs adult males with young boys will draw these type of people - sadly.)"

pedophiles yes gays no. Get the facts please

"...The reason the Boy Scouts do not allow gay leaders is simple - few parents are interested in their sons being forced into this situation."

Prejudice and ignorance

"...as a parent I say, isn't that just too bad? Clean up your group and you might get some attention. But as long as you include people like this in your group don't expect respect."

same could be said about you and the boy scouts

Our Boy Scouts
In our town, the Scouts are roughly half Mexican and Indian, just like the town. The Boy Scouts and Explorers are sponsored by the Border Patrol, which Hal probably disapproves of. The program encourages a lot of boys who feel trapped in a small, isolated town without opportunities to go on to college, the military, and of course the Border Patrol. They not only help boys to become men but to see a whole world outside of the town.
I was a Boy Scout back in the fifties and sixties, and was a scout leader in the 70's and '80's. It sickens me to see this great program that has meant so much to millions under attack by (big surprise) the same forces that are wrecking our social fabric today.

Hal
Clean isnt just about soap and water. It's about ones mind and actions as well. It's also about surroundings (campsite, tent, property etc). Clean covers a lot of ground.

Also there is no forced exclusion of anyone. If the boy doesnt want to take the oath then its by their own choice, not the BSA. Their non-religious status is their own choice, not the BSA. They know this when joining. Its not like they spring it on them at the last second.

Not So
"The VAST majority of pedophiles are heterosexual even if their child target is the same sex as they are. " No, homosexuals are overrepresented in the pedophile population several times over their actual representation in the population.
Your false statistic derives from a study which vigorously redefined anyone who had EVER had heterosexual relations as not homosexual. We know that this is not the case.

Doofass:
Why is it that you have turned against every organization you allege you have ever been associated with? Is it because they have remained true to their principles, and you have none?

Opening doors
Like so many former scouts, I was taught to show respect for women by opening doors for them. On one occasion, that habit had some interesting effects.

I was entering a large department store in the middle of a D.C. slush storm. A young woman carrying a double armload of packages followed me into the doorway. Being true to my training, I held the door for her (would've done it for a guy, also, in those circumstances). The young woman erupted into a profane diatribe, damning me for being an MCP neanderthal and other such comments. I can take a hint, so I let go of the door......got her right in the face and she dropped all her packages. A female store clerk just inside the entrance nearly fell down laughing, while I beat feet to my destination.

Lesson: If you don't like having the door opened for you, wait until you pass through before cursing the mannerly person.

Michael
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 12:00 PM EST
Faith in private organizations
"What if a scout has no faith?"

If a child has no faith, he/she should be honest about that and refrain from joining a faith-based organization on false pretenses..."

See it was not always a faith based organization. It was a faith in a higher power not necessarily some specific religion

"...The real question here is, "Do private organizations have the right to determine who their members will be?" Conservatives believe they do....Do you find that offensive? Fine -- don't join or support the Boy Scouts, then, but at least recognize their right to determine who their members are."

Hey we agree! Then you must also agree with us that they should receive ZERO government assistance. If they want to remain mired in ignorance and prejudice that is their business but NO GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE OF ANY KIND

Hal
Planned parenthood does not hire anti-abortionists,but most of their funding is govt.

Ludicrous Image
Picturing the ludicrous sight of 20 and 21 year-old-men dolled in Eagle Scout regalia made my day.

Thank you for the good laugh Ms. Hagelin.

western bondbeam
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 12:07 PM EST...Also there is no forced exclusion of anyone. If the boy doesnt want to take the oath then its by their own choice, not the BSA. Their non-religious status is their own choice, not the BSA. They know this when joining. Its not like they spring it on them at the last second. "

Ah but the Boy Scouts I joined and became an Eagle Scout in didn't care. You are correct now. And sadly so be it; but zero government assistance if they want to be a force for division of community

Hal
"I guess you are the product of our decaying education system? By all definitions the founders were indeed liberals. They believed in individual ability and strength in community and in growing the nation with government assistance. They also believed that we were a nation of Christians and everything else but NOT a christian nation."

No, they believed in individual ability, strength in the community of individuals, and in growing the nation with MINIMAL government intrusion. You are parroting the teachings decaying education system.

"You said you were military those communities always were diverse. Soon to be more diverse when DADT is done away with next year. What if a scout has no faith?"

It isn't going to make the Military more diverse. Sexual preference has nothig to do with diversity. It is going to cause more problems for the military, because it will be endorsing devient behavior. What if a scout has not faith? Then they aren't a scout, because a scout is Reverent. Twelth point of the scout law. If you don't believe in a higher power, you can't be a Scout, because you would be violating the oath.

"LMAO you are a true bigot. Thank you for proving that the scouts have indeed been hijacked by conservatives. Clean????? LOL now you are telling me that gays don't wash and straights do? LOL"

Clean has as much to do with your conduct as with your body. I am not a bigot, nor do I hate gays. I have a problem with their conduct, as to most members of the Scouting movement. If you think that was any different in Scouting's past, you are indeed a fool.

ExRCSD Deputy
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 12:09 PM EST....Why is it that you have turned against every organization you allege you have ever been associated with? Is it because they have remained true to their principles, and you have none?"

Oh I am still true to most organizations that I joined. The NRA and the BSA were captured by right wing extremists They changed not me.

Hal pt 2
"Oh he loves this country alright and has devoted his life to turning it around. This country is a mere shadow of what it was years ago. You conservatives really have hurt the nation."

Yeah, he loves this nation so much that he wants to institute policies that have lead to ruin, oppression and death everywhere they have been tried. He loves this nation so much he sat in a church for twenty years listening to a pastor who calls on God to dam n this nation. He loves this nation so much that he calls us arrogant before foreigners, and bows to a foreign king.

And conservatism has not hurt this nation. The cause of individual freedom and liberty has only been a boon. Government intrusion into our lives and our communities, from labyrnthian tax codes, to forcing banks to lower standards they themselves set, to environmental regulations over junk science, to education, and to welfare both corporate and private, carried out by both Democrats and Republicans, is what has hurt this country.

"See it was not always a faith based organization. It was a faith in a higher power not necessarily some specific religion"

It still doesn't require you to be part of a specific religion.

I see you know as much about Scouting as you do about the Military

Hal 3
"Oh I am still true to most organizations that I joined. The NRA and the BSA were captured by right wing extremists They changed not me"

Ok, I can half, half see where you are coming from in regards to the Scouts. You are wrong, but I can still almost see where you are coming from.

But what the crap are you talking about in regards to the NRA changing? The fact that it is called the National Rifle Association but also include pistols and shotguns in their work?

jax33
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 12:25 PM EST
Hal
Planned parenthood does not hire anti-abortionists,but most of their funding is govt."

Most? But hey that would be like the Boy scouts hiring pedophiles which is wrong too

Ms. Hagelin
Wonderful column. I was a scout, and loved it. My oldest was a scout, and he loved it. The scouts are one of the last instatutions that lets boys/young men to be boys, and young men. I would think that the virtues they teach would be backed by everyone. I can see by the posts here that with the leftest its my ideas or you are(_____) fill in the blank. How very sick of them.
Kirk

Baradiel
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 12:35 PM EST...No, they believed in individual ability, strength in the community of individuals, and in growing the nation with MINIMAL government intrusion. You are parroting the teachings decaying education system."

LMAO not so You are the builders of big government. Look at what you have done not said. From Reagan on government grew and grew. That is what your anti abortion is all about control of people and access to peoples bodies and homes. Liberals are for effective government

Doofass:
We saw the depth of your loyalty , when you ditched Hillary and ran to the Obama campaign aas soon as it was evident that he was the nominee. Your loyalty is about as deep as your intelligence, an attometer.

Hal D
I always see in you posts, where you were a scout,NRA member, and in the milatary. Hal with all due respect, please name you post (BSA), you membership # (NRA), or at the very least you rank, serial #, and the unit #. I believe you have been asked before, and never answered. Hal it is easy to be brave on the internet, but I have a hard time beliving you would be brave if you had to sand face to face and defend your positions, or the insaults you speak.
Kirk

Why does anybody bother responding
to trash talkers like Hal who hijack every conversation? I think he just likes to see himself in print, but doesn't realize how idiotic and illogical he looks. He can't seem to organize what passes for his mind. Ignore the rants from this glutton of self-disclosure.


Eagle Scout, OA Brotherhood, former Cubmaster, Assistant Soutmaster, Troop Committeeman.

Kirk:
The Doofass gave up his membership in any organization which has remained true to its principles. He has none himself, so it's hard for him to understand those that do.

scouting
All three of my sons are in scouting. It has helped them learn self-sufficiency and leadership, and a wide range of skills that will serve them as men. While not everyone has a good experience with a particular troop, the BSA has produced a fine product in the lives of young men for 100 years.

Though politically neutral, the BSA has been dragged into the "culture wars" in recent years by the ACLU. The BSA chose to not cave in on its time-honored principles, and it has paid a price.

The BSA deserves the suppport of Christians and conservatives -- not only moral support, but financial and most importantly, of your time. As a volunteer organization, scouting could do so much more for the next generation of American men if more people would get involved and not just pay lip service. If you're the parent of a boy aged 6-18, check out a scout program in your area. I'm sure you'll not be disappointed.

Ex RC SD
You are corect sir. I do not believe I will get an answer from Hal, But heres to Hope and Change.
Kirk

Boy Scouts
Hal:
If it so important to have underage boys spend time with known homosexual men and atheists, why not form an organization that does that? You could look for funding, adults and parents who are willing to go alone with it. Who is stopping you?
Boy Scouts hijacked? The law, Oath and other essential philosophy has not changed since ??
Hal you act as intolerant as any Klansman or National Socialist Worker's Party (NAZI) member.
Life Scout

She's right, Scouts ARE FOR GEEKS
Put your kid in Hockey or Football or any team sport instead.

REMEMBER - Girls do NOT want to be seen with a dork in scout clothing. They want letter jackets.

As far back as I can remember, NO Scout was at the best party or crowned Homecoming King.

Boy Scouts
Is a great program. I started as a webelos and joined the local scout troop when I was old enough. I eventually became an Eagle Scout, and then as a young adult served as an assistant Scoutmaster to give something back to the troop, and to make the experience more enjoyable for my Little Brother from the Big Brothers and Sisters program when he joined my old troop. I ran the troop High Adventure program, offering more challenging experiences for the older Scouts, keeping them active, interested, and growing as young men. I am proud of what they have done since then, and hte part Scouting had in their development. My Little Brother is now Baptist Minister. Several of the young men have served their country honorably in the Army and Marines. At a distant relative's funeral, I learned that the neighbor who had helped him around his property when his health declined was one of my former Scouts.

Scouting is great. I no longer support it, though. I am bisexual and happily married to my husband, with a growing family. As long as Scouting discriminates the way it does, I will have no part of it. When the time comes, if national policy has changed or if a local troop doesn't rigidly adhere to national policy, I would love for my son to be involved. But unless and until that happens, my support for this venerable organization is done.

And I think that Baden-Powell would approve of my decision.

Hal
"LMAO not so You are the builders of big government. Look at what you have done not said. From Reagan on government grew and grew. That is what your anti abortion is all about control of people and access to peoples bodies and homes. Liberals are for effective government"

Here is a clue, Governemnt was growing WELL before Reagan. Reagan wasn't perfect, but when he lifted the tax burden on Americans, we florished.

Your abortion argument is nonsense. I don't care what a woman does with her body. Get tatoos, get her tubes tied, breast inmplants, what have you. As long as I don't have to pay for her. When a child is murdered, that is another story.

Effective government? To quote you again, "Look at what you have done not said." That must be why a massive spending bill just got passed, giving millions to study pig flatulance or to ACORN. The only thing government is effective in is curtailing liberty.

We are for effective citizens. Maybe you need someone looking over your shoulder and running your life, but I don't.

That is how I can tell you were never in the Military. You would know that the more Soldies, Sailors, Airmen and Marines are left alone to use their own initiative and creativity, the more effective they are.

Great Article!
While I stupidly dragged my feet a lot when I was in scouting, I am grateful my parents held me to it. When I have kids of my own, I will definitely be getting involved, again. I am glad that the BSA has kept it's backbone rather than succumbing to this "diversity" garbage.

Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow member, former Assistant Scoutmaster. Be Prepared!

E
"REMEMBER - Girls do NOT want to be seen with a dork in scout clothing. They want letter jackets."

I am sure that when those girls grow up, they would love to be seen next to someone who wears a nice suit to his successful business, or surgical scrubs to the hospital, or Marine Corps dress blues, or maybe even a space suit as he prepairs to board a shuttle. I could care less what jacket a teenage girl wants her bf to wear.

"As far back as I can remember, NO Scout was at the best party or crowned Homecoming King."

Yes, because that sets you up for a successful life as a breadwinner, husband, and father.

westernbondbeam:
No, the Boy Scouts don't have an offical question about being gay. But they do insist that if you make a point of being gay, you won't be a leader. Further, ALL leaders have background checks made. If you come up positive for things like sexual abuse, forget it. This is due to a gay leader who liked little boys. He was kicked out (and prosecuted) but he would move to another state and sign up again. Yes, he was a good leader ... except he liked to sneak into the boy's tent at night sometimes too.

WHO DOES A HS GIRL WANT TO HANG WITH?
A) Someone earning Merit Bages

B) Someone throwing TD passes

Need I say more?

Picky, Pickky, Picky
" Yes, he was a good leader ... except he liked to sneak into the boy's tent at night sometimes too. "

Scouting a Great Organization
I just spent the weekend as Director for a scout district Camporee. We had 530 scouts and about 200 adults camping out, playing skill games, songs and skits. As Director, I held for myself the privilege of acting as Chaplain for the Sunday Interfaith Service. In that, I taught the following three definitions - that FAITH is what guides your actions, and directs your thinking. RELIGION is what you have when you codify your faith and solicit followers. FANATICISM is what you have when you start killing people for not following your religion. Faith is important, and not all are Christian. Please don't go down that path. Scouting is about FAITH, to achieve, to support others, to grow and move forward. Scouting teaches self-reliance and provides exposure to a broad range of skills and interests. The emphasis is learning and service. Kudos for a great article. I never made Eagle, couldn't pass the Swimming Merit Badge requirements for health reasons 40+ years ago. It is still a way of life for me, a way of thinking and doing. I wear my uniform almost every weekend, and wear it with pride.
This weekend was pretty neat for me for another reason - my wife achieved her Brotherhood in Order of the Arrow. Isn't that interesting? A woman, mother of two, passed a man's ordeal, and excelled to reach the next level in the Boy Scout Honor Society. And people hold doors for her. Amazing. And, she wasn't the first. And my son, working on his Eagle, is Agnostic. He is honest about it and no one cares. Now, if a Scout is a member of an LDS troop, he does have a faith-based requirement, and we all respect that. In some parts of the world, a specific faith is a requirement, but it is not global. Scouting adapts to the society it is in, it must, and that is not a bad thing. But like an earlier post, the Scouting I participate in today is not that different from the Scouting I experienced as a boy.

E
"As far back as I can remember, NO Scout was at the best party or crowned Homecoming King."

The most popular boy at my HS became an alcoholic.

The football players generally punched timeclocks, cut my grass, fixed my cars, snaked out my sewerlines, and voted for Democrats. Their wives had to cook and clean up after them, and paint their own walls.

Regarding the doofus
Anyone else think that Hal will claim to be a member of whatever organization the article is about, and that it has been hijacked by right wing extremists?

I can just see it. Next week, there will be an article about 4H, and he will claim he enjoyed his time in it, but that it was hijacked by conservatives because the livestock is killed an eaten, typical rightwing disregard for animal life.

Waiting for him to claim that the KKK was once a fine organization, until it was taken over by racist right wingers.

If I were one of the columnists, I would make up an organization, like, the AAUWSS, the American Association of Under Water SCUBA Snipers, just to see him rant about how they have lost their way due to conservative corruption.

You are right BARADIEL
"Yes, because that sets you up for a successful life as a breadwinner, husband, and father"

That would be me. And I did it without the Boy Scouts. Sports my friend. TEAM SPORTS. REAL LESSONS.

It's a dog-eat-dog world out there. If you want your kid to wear a dorky outfit and hang around with some creep in tight green shorts, well that's fine with me. My kid will be learning about teamwork, hard work, taking care of his body, blitz packages, reading zones and how to clock someone.

He will gain his confidence for the "real world" when the hottest girls in school want to be with him and not the nerd in a badge shal.

E
WHO DOES A GROWN WOMAN WANT TO HANG WITH?

A) Someone who has a successful career.

B) Someone who still shows off his letter jacket and brags about his highschool glory days.

Need I say more?

Hal:
It is easy to tell from your answers that you were never in the Boy Scouts.

"Is this true? There is no discussion about sex with all those hormones raging?"

Yes, it's true. Boys don't talk of sex when they are having fun on something else. This is a gay belief, unfortunately, that leads them to believe they could have fun there.

"Why? Even if the parent want to be a leader?"

So they do want to be a leader? So what? If all they want to be a leader for is to enjoy sex they don't belong there.

"Gays are not pedophiles."

Not all are - just as not all hetros are either. But according to Boy Scout records, more of the ones who want to be leaders are. And the Boy Scouts wants ZERO pedophiles.

"Prejudice and ignorance"

It might be prejudice and ignorance to be unhappy if your young son is out with a gay man for a weekend - but it exists. And if you want to have the boys to go out for the weekend, you have to insure the parents believe the boys will be safe. You are willing to deny millions of boys the chance just to allow a few gay men the chance to be leaders. I'd prefer the boys had the chance than the men.

Finally, you said that the Boy Scouts - and me - shouldn't expect respect if we exclude gays. That's fine. I can do without the respect of gay men for not letting them have the ability to be with boys when I do get the respect of the boys and their parents for the same reason.

Since you are so sure that you will make a good leader then feel free to start your own organization for boys. But don't be disappointed at the small number of boys who might show up.

Priceless, Rich D
I went back for my 40th high school reunion. The 'dorky' guys who worked hard and weren't that popular included two major scientists and an astronaut, as well as many other successful people. Most of the 'popular' kids were moody, overweight alcoholics. Their life peaked in high school. There were exceptions, of course (the astronaut also played football), but not that many.
If your main goal in life is to be popular in high school, an evil deity might just grant your wish, the better to make you suffer later.

Hawaiian Scouting
Several members of my troop in the '50's and '60's were Buddhists (they had a neat faith achievement medal) and they didn't believe in God. No problem. We had interesting discussions around the campfire as to who would be reincarnated as a cockroach-- the algebra teacher generally was elected.

Hal
"Ah but the Boy Scouts I joined and became an Eagle Scout in didn't care."
----------
The reality is, most still dont. As I said earlier, they dont really come out and ask anyone about being gay and unless a scout professes no religion (they dont, they ususally just stay silent) then there is not a real issue on the troop level.

"You are correct now. And sadly so be it; but zero government assistance if they want to be a force for division of community"
---------

The BSA does not rely on any federal or state or local funding. Fundraisers and Parent donations and some local United Way etc...

I hate to break it to you Baradiel
Many "grown women" agree with me.

Glory days are glory days, and many of us want the same thing for our kids. Those were truly great days and I make no apologies for having a great HS career.

This nonsence that somehow jocks all end up cutting grass is pure garbage. I guess that explains all the athlete friends I still have today from my fraternity. Oh, and one is a doctor.

Rebecca H's columns...
... are to TH what Sandra Lee's show is to Food Network. In both cases, I couldn't care less about the content, and just tune in to check out the hot-looking MILF. Whoa... it's cougar country!


Folks
Is it not funney when Hal D is asked to provide any proof that he was a scout, NRA member, or in the milatary, we don't hear from him again. Nice work kirk now you don't have anyone to argue with.
Kirk

45 Caliber
Yep. The problem is not a BSA problem but a gay rights movement problem. Few people in Scouting or public at large would even know about the policy if not for gay activists stamping their foot in front of news cameras and court doors.

E
Ah, you are frat boy, that pretty much explanes everything. You have to pay to have freinds.

Oh, and I knew pleanty of Scouts, myself included, who played sports in school. Not only that, scouting get togethers were full of competitions, including sports. Team work and organizational skills are all tought in the Scouts. Oh, and I also baited you about the dumb jock stereotype. Cuts both ways, doesn't it?

And talk about hot women? I went to the World Jamboree in Chile. Most countries don't have Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts, they simply have Scouts. 35,000 teenagers from over a 100 different countries, mostly South America. I would happily compaire the Chilean, Brazilian and Argintine girls I hung out with to the airheads you did any day son.

The leadership and instruction skills, along with teamwork and values, helped me to become a successful US Marine NCO.

Oh and E
Which gets you and automatic promotion when you enlist in the Military? A letter jacket, or an Eagle Scout?

I seriously doubt you are any of the things you are bragging about. Something tells me you wouldn't be on this site if you were.

Though, granted, it is fun to make believe.

E
Yeah - you just reminded me of the dog in the black Ford Fairlane Victoria who tailgated me down the hill this morning on a two-lane road. We got to the bottom and turned left into a long line of creeping stop-and-go traffic. I let a gap grow in front of me because I was going at a constant slow speed to smooth out the flow and to avoid stopping and going. He pulled out and passed me on a double yellow line and then crept for the next sevaral minutes hugging the next car in front, cigarette hanging out the window, until we got to a four lane road where we were side by side as he turned on to a bridge. Made up lots of time heading to his timeclock - you know the kind - he accelerates to the red light.

Sure, he was a dog eating dog in the world. Probably learned how to clock somebody and other valuable social skills in your favored class of folks who the huns wouldn't even invite to their banquets.

Baradiel, I guess you have a frat hangup
I guess it does not matter to you that some of those "frat boys" came directly from Desert Storm?

Would you let your kid join a fraternity?

I would let my son join the scouts. Much to my dismay I might add.


Still waiting Hal
Still waiting for your explanation about how the NRA got "hijacked" by conservatives.

This is why I sometimes think Hal is actually Joe Biden, telling us all about how George Washington defeated Romell at Gettysburg. It is not like the VP has much to do. I guess Obama gave him a job he figured he could handle. But even on a forum, where you can actually think out your responses and review them before you post, he still sucks.

Baradiel - Ahh, the classic old turnarou
Never said I was an Eagle Scout....I was NEVER a Scout.

I was however a First line Defenseman on my Hockey team for three years. And I played in college. Next?

Scouting & ADHD
My husband & I initially got our oldest (now 13), who was diagnosed ADHD at age 5, involved in Scouts as a structured outlet for his boundless energy. I can't say enough about how this program has helped him forge friendships, focus on his schoolwork and mature socially & emotionally. Last year he was inducted into the Order of the Arrow. He has acquired knowledge & skills that will be an asset to him throughout his life,in any profession, on a daily basis. In the words of Chik-Fil-A founder Truett Cathey: "It is better to build boys than to mend men."

E
Would I let my kid join a fraternity? Just think on that one for a minute.

How old is a fraternity member? HMMMMM, I think old enough to not need a permision slip from mommy and daddy.

I could say something about a dumb jock, but that is way to easy.

E
Idiot. I never said you were a Scout. I said you were lying about being an athlete and being the homecoming king.

NEXT!

Tanya
Yeah, I know a few kids like that. I have also seen spoild brats become team players and hard workers in the span of a week at summer camp, and then go on to become leaders in the troop and Order of the Arrow.

I also love the work the Scouts do with the handicaped. Seeing mentally and physically disabled Scouts go through the Order of the Arrow Ordeal is enough to move anyone to tears. I remember taking part in a camporee that was organized buy a couple scouts with Downs Syndrom. Absolutely amazing.

Baradiel
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 12:43 PM EST
Hal 3
"Oh I am still true to most organizations that I joined. The NRA and the BSA were captured by right wing extremists They changed not me"

Ok, I can half, half see where you are coming from in regards to the Scouts. You are wrong, but I can still almost see where you are coming from.

"...But what the crap are you talking about in regards to the NRA changing? The fact that it is called the National Rifle Association but also include pistols and shotguns in their work?"

Nope I was an NRA member and took safety and hunting courses from them and enjoyed being a member. Then in the seventies they swung way right. I quit way back then when I was a cop and they were pushing for so called armor piercing bullets. Heck like now with so called assault rifles the NRA appears to be losing what urban police support they had left.

Touchy Touchy BaraDiel
Dude, I never said I was Homecoming King. I was making a point. Wow, the Scouts sure made you smart.

"Would I let my kid join a fraternity? Just think on that one for a minute.....I think old enough to not need a permision slip from mommy and daddy."

Ummmm....Lot's of people DON'T get permission, especially if their parents are paying. It's not that uncommon....I guess you never went to college.....Oh yeah, you are the Marine, I got that....I guess I can come back and say "I don't believe all your bragging because something tells me you would not be on this site if you were" but instead I'll just thank you for your service...

OUCH...NEXT.

Kirk
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 12:54 PM EST
Hal D
I always see in you posts, where you were a scout,NRA member, and in the milatary. Hal with all due respect, please name you post (BSA),..."

Troop 95, Scranton, PA

"... you membership # (NRA), or at the very least you rank, serial #, and the unit #..."

I cannot remember my NRA number that was lost long ago. I was a Lt. Col. USAF when I retired, AFSC 1555C, 313TFS, 494TFS, 335TFS

"... I believe you have been asked before, and never answered. Hal it is easy to be brave on the internet, but I have a hard time beliving you would be brave if you had to sand face to face and defend your positions, or the insaults you speak."

I do public speaking often and I am often on the campaign trail. I have no trouble speaking out to friendly and hostile audiences. Insults? Like?

Doofass
Like I said a man who has no principles has a difficult time in understanding those that do.

As the Mother of Two Eagle Scouts
and the wife of one who became an Eagle at 13 and is now a successful attorney, I tremendously enjoyed and identified with Ms. Hagelin's column. What a joy to see this kind of stuff touted in a nationally read column! Having been a Cub Scout den leader, currently a Boy Scout unit commissioner and committee treasurer, I have seen the difference a strong Scout leadership makes in the lives of boys with single or split parents. What I don't understand is all the complaining about what we, BSA, stand for. If you don't like it, form your own group, for Heaven's sake! You certainly wouldn't let people like us change your beliefs if we wanted to join your group, so just go along nicely, agree to disagree and if the shoe doesn't fit, don't try to wear it!

Doofass:
Insults. That's your bread and butter here. When someone disagrees with you, the first thing you do is throw out a slur.

E
"This nonsence that somehow jocks all end up cutting grass is pure garbage."

I didn't say that they ALL did - the brighter Mexicans have taken over most of their jobs.

I must put in a good word for jocks, however. They do have a way of constantly affirming everyone and reassuringly making people feel really intelligent when they speak to you by repeatedly saying, "You know", "You know"...

E
That last comment made no sense. If that is the writing of a college student, consider me unimpressed.

Boy Scouts
to Hal:
I sorry that when you went PC orienteering you lost your compass. As with society in general, political correctness is far away from the norm that you and I grew up in. But, the Boy Scouts did not change at their core. God is unchanging. What changes is man. We have lost our way. You criticized NRA and churches and Boy Scouts. Perhaps you are the changed one. You evidently have looked within and decided that relativity guides you rather than some overarching absolute truth. I hope you find your compass again. Try that church you criticized.

E:
If one of my collge students turned in the kind of gibberish you have posted here, I would gently adbise them to drop the class, take Remedial English, and return in a year.

Really Baradiel?
It's really pretty clear.

I was referring to the time old "I don't believe you" sling you conjured up. usually happens when you have NOTHING.

I guess no merit badge in reading/comprehension eh?


Hal
"Nope I was an NRA member and took safety and hunting courses from them and enjoyed being a member. Then in the seventies they swung way right. I quit way back then when I was a cop and they were pushing for so called armor piercing bullets. Heck like now with so called assault rifles the NRA appears to be losing what urban police support they had left."

So, you were a cop too? I can't wait for the column about NASA so you can tell us all how you were an astronaut.

Losing the support of urban police? WOW, that is idiotic even for you. Yeah, the police don't support an organization that pushes gun safety and responsible firearm ownership. The retired cops that I work with are all dues paying members of the NRA.

The NRA hasn't swung "way right", they preserve the freedoms that our founding father's believed in. They always have. Conservatives aren't "way right", we are the middle road, between tyranny and anarchy.

correction
advise

What Hal?
"I do public speaking often and I am often on the campaign trail."

Ok, so you campaign now too? Seriously. Pick at least a coherant lie.

Or, maybe that proves my theory tha you are, indeed, Joe Bumbling Biden. You do claim to be from Scranton, after all.

If that is indeed you, Joe, I have to tell you, your boss is a joke.

Baradiel
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 3:06 PM EST
Hal
"Nope I was an NRA member and took safety and hunting courses from them and enjoyed being a member. Then in the seventies they swung way right. I quit way back then when I was a cop and they were pushing for so called armor piercing bullets. Heck like now with so called assault rifles the NRA appears to be losing what urban police support they had left."

So, you were a cop too? I can't wait for the column about NASA so you can tell us all how you were an astronaut."

LOL nope no astronaut but I have been high enough to see stars come out in day time (wink). I was a decorated city of Scranton, PA policeman for several years. I said it before and even provided newspaper verification

"...Losing the support of urban police? WOW, that is idiotic even for you. Yeah, the police don't support an organization that pushes gun safety and responsible firearm ownership..."

That is the good part making lots of guns available to criminals and flooding the market with lots of heavy firepower is another

"...The retired cops that I work with are all dues paying members of the NRA."

Are they rural or urban? If Urban ask if their department and union supports the NRA

"...The NRA hasn't swung "way right", ...Conservatives aren't "way right", we are the middle road, between tyranny and anarchy."

Actually both are WAY right and nowhere near the middle of anything. Conservatives now make up what no more than 30% of the population? Probably much closer to 20% and falling daily

Baradiel:
The Doofass and Ranger'sIQ's-29 seem to have a contest going, based upon who can come up with the most unbelievable fantasy life.

Doofass:
Could you come up with at least a little proof for your wild a*sed assertions?

Baradiel
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 3:11 PM EST
What Hal?
"I do public speaking often and I am often on the campaign trail."

Ok, so you campaign now too? Seriously. Pick at least a coherant lie..."

Nope no lie at all. I have been a surrogate speaker for congressmen. a senator, Kerry, Hillary and Obama. There is no lie.


Doofy
"LOL nope no astronaut but I have been high enough to see stars come out in day time (wink). I was a decorated city of Scranton, PA policeman for several years. I said it before and even provided newspaper verification"

I am sure you have been high enough to see stars. No argument here.

"That is the good part making lots of guns available to criminals and flooding the market with lots of heavy firepower is another"

You will never find an NRA member who supports guns going into the hands of criminals. That is why they support gun ownership in responsible citizens, so they can protect themselves from criminals.

"Are they rural or urban? If Urban ask if their department and union supports the NRA"

I live in the Phoenix area.

"Actually both are WAY right and nowhere near the middle of anything. Conservatives now make up what no more than 30% of the population? Probably much closer to 20% and falling daily"

You prove the point that 76% of statistics are made up. You also show complete ignorance of what conservatism is.

E
Son, your posts don't make any sense. Keep throwing insults at the Scouts and the Military, you simply prove the old saying, the empty can rattles the most.

ExRCSD Deputy
Proof? These are liberals we are talking about.

Joe Joe
"Nope no lie at all. I have been a surrogate speaker for congressmen. a senator, Kerry, Hillary and Obama. There is no lie."

Sorry I outed you Mr. Biden. Promise I won't tell anyone.

Baradiel, now you are reaching
How the hell did I make fun of the military? Are you insane? I THANKED YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

As for the Boy Scouts, they deserve my ridicule. Right down to the nerds that showed up in uniform back in Jr HS. We used to throw in dumpsters, and like most wimps, they couldn't do a thing about it. My son will not have that happen to him.

He is too busy right now prepairing for Pop Warner in the Summer.

Baradiel:
Your right. Proof to a liberal is whatever they pull out of his/her as*.

Baradiel:
The Doofass isn't really particular about who he subs for, is he? Sounds like the supporting cast of a Three Stooges short.

E:
When are you going to take the Remedial English, Grammar, and Spelling courses you so badly need?

E
"How the hell did I make fun of the military? Are you insane? I THANKED YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE."

You were sarcastic about it. I am not as stupid as you son, this is what you said "I guess you never went to college.....Oh yeah, you are the Marine, I got that". In other words, Marines are stupid and uneducated.

And sure you threw them in dumpsters. We all believe you. That kind of stuff makes great TV, but we know it doesn't really happen.

You obviously have some self esteem issues son. You are also not as old as you claim to be, because you are not speaking like a grown up. 19 at best.

Boy Scouts taken over by right wingers?
I was on a small town newspaper blog about three days taking about the 1st Amdendment and the ACLU. I mentioned that the ACLU has not defended the 1st Amendment Rights of the Boy Scouts. I see a comment about how the Boy Scouts have been taken over by right winger Bush extremists.
First, the Boy Scouts have not changed: look at the Scout Oath, Promise, Laws, Outdoor Code,ect and you will not see changes in the last 40(?) years. No one has taken them over: their willingness to go to court to defend themselves proves that.
Second, "right wing extremist" is being used a lot. It sounds like the answer to every arguement. It also sounds like there is a mass of people who can't make a coherent argument.

Baradiel:
Most of the Scouts I knew, would have dropped kicked E into the middle of next week.

ExRCSD Deputy
I'm telling you, Hal is actually Joe Biden. It makes perfect sense. It is not like Slow Joe has much to do all day. Hal is probably the name of a childhood imaginary freind.

Bill, total agrement. A the two extremes are Anarchy and Tyrany. The left is Tyrany, so that would make the far right Anarchy. Conservatives are the middle of the road. We are the moderates. We believe in personal liberty, but no one is above the law. These Tea Parties are prime examples. You didn't see one get out of hand. And that is precisely what the Scouts teach too.

As Scout is Obedient. A Scout obeys the law. If he doesn't agree with the law, he works to legally have it changed.

Play Nice
We're responding to the insults by the lefties on this thread instead of focusing on the actual issue, which is exactly what their goal is.
The issue is that the Boy Scouts are under attack by the Left, as are most decent, character building institutions in our society. They'd rather have us responding to their insults and innuendos that identifying them for what they are-- destructive elements in our society. Don't play their game.

Other good resources on manhood
for those interested in a point of view that appreciates and celebrates traditional manliness (protector and provider)with a Biblical Worldview include:

Boyhood and Beyond:Practical Wisdom for Becoming a Man by Bob Schultz

Made For Work: Practical Insights for Young Men by Bob Schultz

They are geared to late elementary school to young teenage boys but are very valuable to girls of the same age so they can IDENTIFY a good, humble, honorable, godly young man when they see one.

I Kissed Dating Goodbye by Joshua Harris

Say Hello to Courtship by Joshua Harris

Both are geared to teenagers and single men and focus primarily on a godly attitude toward women and submitting to the will of God in that particular area. Women get a lot out of these too, but I think he really had men in mind when he wrote it.

Don't get caught up on the details about avoiding all hand holding, hugging, and kissing before marriage. (Some in the courtship movement are more rigid about these things than others.) Focus on the state of the heart and the self discipline that reflects respect for God, marriage, and future yet to be identified spouses.

ExRCSD Deputy
"Most of the Scouts I knew, would have dropped kicked E into the middle of next week."

No joke. Lets see, what have I done with the Scouts? Hiked in the Andes, whitewater rafting, mountain climbing, repelling, diving, shooting, you name it. I doubt Easy E could handle any of that.

Not to mention the exploits of Scouts here and around the world. When that tornado hit a Scout camp in the midwest, the Scouts rendered competant assistance to the injured, instead of just waiting for the paramedics rescue workers. During every war since the Scouts were founded, they have worked in support of the deployed military, and helped with disaster relief. There was a Scout in, I believe Indonesia, who grabbed a knife out of the hand of a man trying to assassinate their president. Scouts in Rwanda burying the dead during the Genocides there. Oh, and the Scouts of India vacinating the populace against leprosy, and virtually whiping that disease out in several areas.

Yeah, what a bunch of nerds.

Robert
True, but sometimes it is hard to resist.

Baradiel - Jesus, I'm speechless
"Marines are stupid and uneducated"

That is NOT what I was getting at. You pointed out that you were a Marine. That's all I was getting at. The lack of college remark comes from your ignorance on fraternities.

If you don't like what I was saying and it was too "sarcastic" for you well how about some of your own medecine. Here I go:

I don't believe you are a Marine.

There, how's that?

YOU are a liar.

Like that one?

See how silly this is?




Great article regarding the scouts
The scouts are a great organization and deserve our support. Also, reading here I see mentioned that we have the Vice resident in here today.
Welcome Mr. Vice President, and keep working to get us more of those three letter word.. J O B S !

Baradiel
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 3:45 PM EST
Joe Joe
"Nope no lie at all. I have been a surrogate speaker for congressmen. a senator, Kerry, Hillary and Obama. There is no lie."

Sorry I outed you Mr. Biden. Promise I won't tell anyone."

Unlike you this is my real name Google away

getting yelled at...
"Getting Yelled At?
Do people really get yelled at for holding doors for women? That has never happened to me. I do live in the South, though."

Yes, Karl, absolutely! Though very conservative, I've lived my life in very liberal Ann Arbor, MI and Boston/ Cambridge, MA... (it's a college town thing... smaller Mich. towns were better
)

...and yes, the women are full to the brim w/ feminist anger... older women take well to chivalrous gestures (holding doors, etc.), but the 20s-30s ones snicker at it, or fail to say thanks... or fail to return the favor where applicable.
Men tend to be polite towards one another, saying thanks, etc., but the younger women are monsters, especially as regards public shows of courtesy.
Count your blessings that you live down south!

-- slim

E
Great comeback. Nice back peddling. I might have gone to college before becoming a Marine, you simply assumed that since I was a Marine, that I never had. Interesting assumption.

Unfortunatly for you, I don't care if you believe me or not. My self esteem isn't so low that I need to make up stories about how awesome I am.

"The lack of college remark comes from your ignorance on fraternities."

See, if I had made a reference to, I don't know, various hazing rituals involving each others genetalia, then you might have an argument. You were showing quite alot of ignorance about the Scouts, but thats ok, right?

Like I said before, your past comments have not been that of a mature adult. No mature adult talks about beating up nerds or how they got all the "hot chicks". We are not impressed. Grow up son.

Joe Joe
"Unlike you this is my real name Google away"

Sure Joe. Can I call you Joe? Hey, I was wondering if you could hook me up with a cabinet postion? Napolitano is sure to be thrown under the bus soon, and I have some great boarder enforcement ideas. I did pay my taxes on time though, is that a problem?

Baradiel:
Giving us his name is about the only honest statement the Doofass has ever made.

BTW: Be ready for him to call you a phony soldier or vet. That is his big fallback when he finds an active duty military or veteran who disagrees with him and Obumf^ck.

ExRCSD Deputy
Lol, he can all me a phony Soldier all he wants. I will be the first to tell you I was never a Soldier. I was a Marine. Like I told Easy E, I could care less if either of those morons believes me. I don't have to make people believe I am super mega awesome to feel good about myself.

Schools out soon, where is Ranger29? I am looking forward to hearing about his latest adventures.

Baradiel
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 3:30 PM EST..."That is the good part making lots of guns available to criminals and flooding the market with lots of heavy firepower is another"

You will never find an NRA member who supports guns going into the hands of criminals. That is why they support gun ownership in responsible citizens, so they can protect themselves from criminals."

Nice tap dance. Where do criminals get most of their weapons? Why are red states not safer than blue states? I have no problem with weapons but like any other tool they should not be worshiped as false gods which is what extreme conservatives do. It must be horrible to live just frightened lives?

"Are they rural or urban? If Urban ask if their department and union supports the NRA"

I live in the Phoenix area."

And your retired police?

"Actually both are WAY right and nowhere near the middle of anything. Conservatives now make up what no more than 30% of the population? Probably much closer to 20% and falling daily"

You prove the point that 76% of statistics are made up. You also show complete ignorance of what conservatism is."

Are you confusing people who voted Republican with conservatives? That is a huge mistake.

Frat boy
Bet he wasn't in A-Phi-O or STE.

Whoops! He was president of both at the same time.

Baradiel:
No offense intended about the phony soldier comment. He calls anyone active duty, retired, honorably discharged a phony_______, if they disagree with his idol worship of Obumf^ck and the Dumsh1tcraps.

BTW: Ranger'sIQ's-29 usually doesn't show up until after midnight EDT. Makes his inane, insane, idiotic statements in the middle of the night and disappears.

Doofass:
If your hero, Obumf^ck, gave you the order to go start gathering up legally owned guns, you'd put on your XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL USNKVD, and do the job in such a way as to make Dzherzhinsky, Yezhov, Yagoda, and Beria proud.

Joe Joe
"Nice tap dance. Where do criminals get most of their weapons? Why are red states not safer than blue states? I have no problem with weapons but like any other tool they should not be worshiped as false gods which is what extreme conservatives do. It must be horrible to live just frightened lives?"

Well, first off, alot of those fire arms are stolen. And since you point out that our criminals are packing so much firepower, it is only logical that citizens be armed to defend themselves. On top of that, despite what you learned in the public education system, the 2nd Ammendment was intended for us to protect ourselves from a tyranical government. Red States are safer than Blue States? Right. Like I told you before, "extreme conservative" is an oxymoron. And as a lib, you are the LAST person to accuse someone of worshipping false gods.

"And your retired police?"

All from this area. Also, one of my best freinds, a Sherrif's deputy in Tampa, loves the NRA. He hasn't had to bust one member of the NRA for anything. Most of the guns he finds are STOLEN.

"Are you confusing people who voted Republican with conservatives? That is a huge mistake."

I know the difference, it is you, Slow Joe, who can't.

Boy Scout Leadership
The background checks for adult leaders are some of the most stringent of any volunteer organization. The BSA does this to weed out persons with unsavory backgrounds including pedophilia. Most of the pedophiles that have been found in the Boy Scouts over the past few decades have been heterosexual. The Boy Scouts do not ask if a person is gay, nor have they ever gone on a "Witch hunt" to weed out homosexuals, either youth or adults. With over a million adult volunteers, I would venture to guess that there are some homosexual leaders still in the program that haven't announced their sexual preference. It's only when gays come forward on their own or their actions towards youth are shown not to live up the the established policy that they are asked to leave. The BSA does not believe that homosexuality automatically makes you a pedophile, but their sexual orientation places kids at risk of exposure that their parents, who are the real stakeholders in the BSA program, have shown to be against in the raising of their boys(s).

The leaders are trained to respond to questions about sex by telling the boy to ask his parents or spiritual advisor. That's where sexual education belongs.

Many United Ways have stopped financial aid to local Scout councils. I recommend that you contact the local BSA council and if the United way no longer supports the Scouts then stop donating to them and send your money directly to the Boy Scouts


ExRCSD Deputy
Its cool man, I was more making fun of Slow Joe Biden, AKA Hal Donahue.

Hey Bumbles Biden, why don't you go ahead and define conservatism?

Tom, you can directly support the scouts
Since the United Way is a big donor to Planned Parenthood, which I despise both on the abortion grounds and the fact that they hide pedophiles, it'd be better to simply donate directly to the scouts.

Baradiel
"Date: Apr 21, 2009 - 5:58 PM EST..."Nice tap dance. Where do criminals get most of their weapons? Why are red states not safer than blue states? I have no problem with weapons but like any other tool they should not be worshiped as false gods which is what extreme conservatives do. It must be horrible to live just frightened lives?"

Well, first off, alot of those fire arms are stolen..."

Exactly my point. That is how criminals are armed

"... And since you point out that our criminals are packing so much firepower, it is only logical that citizens be armed to defend themselves..."

Where do you stop? Should I claim the right to have a thermonuclear devise to protect my neighborhood in a kind of balance of terror with the other "hoods"? Common sense is lost in silly wasteful escalation

"...On top of that, despite what you learned in the public education system, the 2nd Ammendment was intended for us to protect ourselves from a tyranical government..."

LMAO as a marine you know what chance irregulars have against trained military. In fact obtaining weapons is usually a training ground for successful revolutions. This is an NRA fantasy which fails to appreciate the changes in weapons and population since 1776

"... Red States are safer than Blue States? Right. Like I told you before, "extreme conservative" is an oxymoron..."

As a rule I am FAR more likely to be killed in a red state LOL Check the stats

"...All from this area. Also, one of my best freinds, a Sherrif's deputy in Tampa, loves the NRA. He hasn't had to bust one member of the NRA for anything. Most of the guns he finds are STOLEN."

LOL thanks for proving my point conservatives are serving up weapons to criminals. Check what police groups/department supports reinstating the assault weapon ban

Hey Doofass:
Again why don't you provide some proof for your wild as*ed assertions?

BTW, Doofass, irregulars did a pretty good job in SC in the 1780s, on the Plains, in Vietnam, and a whole sh1tload of other places.

God bless the boyscouts
My sons were in scouts for years and loved it. It is one place a boy can go to be a boy and learn how to be a man. I have a grandson in the scouts now and it is helping him as he has autism and can't always get along as well as he should, but he is doing well in scouts. I agree about sending money directly to the scouts. The United Way in some parts of the country do not treat the scouts very well and I, too, do not like their giving money to Planned Parenthood, an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

Boy Scouts
Thank you, Ms Hagelin, beautifully rendered article! Even Scouting has been maligned by all kinds of screwball groups when, in fact, it is a wonderful organization, simply wonderful. My son, now 14 will soon be Eagle and he has garnered many skills from his Scouting experience.

Scouting is great stuff for the young ones growing up! The grownups controlling the important institutions of our country would do well to remember values transmitted in Scouting like integrity, honesty, truth, and loyalty. I’m very tired of all this rampant Machiavellian sumbag behavior!

The feminist agenda: Hell has no fury like a vested interest masquerading as a moral principle. Their influence is mostly destructive to the social fabric, a fabric based on thousands year old traditions that are in turn based on the genetic propensities of the sexes, a legacy of our evolution. You don't re-engineer the social fabric without paying real close attention to the underlying reasons for its existence. Forcing unproven concepts on society is misguided and almost always detrimental; it undermines that fabric and the eventual result is unraveling of the stabilizing forces that make this Nation strong. Exactly what is happening at this time. Creating this amount of discord without seeing the long-term ramification is the hallmark of feminism.

Slow Joe
"LMAO as a marine you know what chance irregulars have against trained military. In fact obtaining weapons is usually a training ground for successful revolutions. This is an NRA fantasy which fails to appreciate the changes in weapons and population since 1776"

You are aware that most of us really aren't concerned with the Military, right? Our Military won't turn on the population. Groups like Obama's "National Civilian Security Force" is what we are more worried about.

"As a rule I am FAR more likely to be killed in a red state LOL Check the stats"

Really? Which stats? It would also be interesting to see how those stats lined up after you took those including illegal immigrants out of the equation. You are aware, of course, that in Switzerland, every household has assault rifles. Their crime rate is very, very low.

"LOL thanks for proving my point conservatives are serving up weapons to criminals. Check what police groups/department supports reinstating the assault weapon ban"

Serving up weapons? Hey doofus, if you got your wish and had assault weapons banned, the only people who would then have assault weapons would be criminals. You can be the victim all you want, not me though.

Keep throwing your LOLs and LMAOs into the arguments. They are not really advancing your cause.

O.
Congrats to your son! It is ashame that more politicians aren't Eagle Scouts or Gold Awards (Girl Scouts).

Baradiel:
Uncontrollable laughter, repeating the same idiotic statements, and a lack of contact with reality are symptoms of a psychosis known as hebrephrenia. You happened to know of anyone here who fits those symptoms?

Mr. Biden (AKA, Hal)
You still didn't get back to me on whether you would see about me taking Napolitano's job.

Boy Scouts
my nephew is also an eagle scout who just came out. Imagine that.

That ok with you Rebecca? Imagine that, my gay nephew, strong, leader, out on those camping trips with other boys. What a travesty, eh? LOL. Foolish rightwingers. Live your lives. Stop worrying about everyone around you.

ExRCSD Deputy
"You happened to know of anyone here who fits those symptoms?"

Slow Joe Biden.

Hey, I take it you are formor law enforcement, Deputy, what is your take on the NRA?

Beauregard
"Foolish rightwingers. Live your lives. Stop worrying about everyone around you."

Pot, meet kettle.

My nephew
My nephew came out as a straight guy in his high school musical.

Jeff
Thanks, pepsi shot out my nose.

katepatate
Glad to hear about your grandson. The Scouts do some amazing work with kids with disabilities. We also do a fair share of work with the Special Olympics.

I don't tell anyone how to live
you rightwingers can't refrain from it. Look at this woman's posts and writings. The whole world is out to get her and her family. Somehow, I raised three kids without worrying about the 'culture'. How could they be part of the culture while I was paying the bills? No low hanging pants because I didn't buy them. No belly shirts or tattoos for my daughter because she didn't have independent income. Grades were their main job, then chores. No church, no boy or girl scouts, just their friends and family. Something about conservative parents---you all seem bewildered by the modern world. Why?

Beauregard:
Seems to me you just told us the "proper" way to raise children.

Baradiel
You're welcome!

Boy Scouts, AmeriCorps, Brownshirts?
There's another thread on townhall tonight equating volunteers in the AmeriCorps with the Hitler Youth. I'm not quite sure where the Boy Scouts fit into this, if getting young people together for idealistic purposes is as dangerous as the anti-AmeriCorps posts say it is. Maybe you-all conservatives ought to get your stories straight before you come out swinging.

Baradiel:
Unlike the Doofass, who spent his alleged law enforcement career protesting so called cop killer bullets and the NRA, I actually was glad to have NRA's support.

Lilly
It's simple, the Boy Scout were run by the good guys, the Hitler Youth was run by the bad guys....Hmmm.. Same as in WW2!

The boys ...
The other thing about watch "boys" on television is that the big stars are all sissified guys, like Ashton Kuchner. To put it in perspective, Ashton K. is one of the most masculine ... wow!

Religous awards for ALL faiths.
One does NOT have to have a specific deity and Buddhists don't. They DO have to have a sense of NOT being the center of their own private universe which most atheists DO.

Buddhists in Scouting have a religious award called the Sangha. My father was the Chairman of the religious awards program for the Nine Counties (greater NY area) for over 20 years. I was the instructor for the Pius XII award (older Catholic Scouts) and had the first FEMALE student to receive the award from the Cardinal.

I still have the display board. There are several dozen awards for Mormons, Jews, Episcopalians, Methodists, Catholics, Greek and Russian Orthodox, Seventh Day Adventists and many others. We NEVER were a "Christian" only organization. I am sick of the Christ haters out there trying to foist that idea.

Only made it to Life. Also Leadership Corps and Brotherhood in OA.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria

Lilly tells a dilly!!!
In Germany one of the first youth-oriented moves was to BAN the Scouts in favor of HJ. In other words for those in Rio Linda: Hitler Jugend or Hitler Youth.

-Ray
NRA Life Member
Soli Deo Gloria!!

lilly
Nonsense. The Boy Scouts are a private organization. Obama is pushing America Corps with government funding.

If you can't see the difference, it is not my fault you are that dense.

"Maybe you-all conservatives ought to get your stories straight before you come out swinging." Get our stories straight? Sorry, we are independantly minded people, with our own opinions. We have our own stories. True, they often are similar, because of this thing called common sense. We aren't drones like yourself and other Obots.

Beauregard, you are telling us how to live. We aren't either. The Boy Scouts are a private organization. You can choose to support them or not.

Wrat Wrangler
"In Germany one of the first youth-oriented moves was to BAN the Scouts in favor of HJ. In other words for those in Rio Linda: Hitler Jugend or Hitler Youth."

Good point, totally forgot about that. He appealed to Sir Robert Baden-Powel for the Scouts to recognize the HJ. Baden-Powel said no dice.

Correction above
"Beauregard, you are telling us how to live. We aren't. The Boy Scouts are a private organization. You can choose to support them or not. "

Scouting
I am a proud Eagle Scout and so is my brother. Both of us have advanced degrees, stable marriages and are respected in our chosen fields. We owe scouting a great debt; it helped form us into responsible adults by teaching us how to think, lead and learn. I support scouting and oppose anyone attacking it. For instance, the United Way will never get a dime from me or anyone I know. Scouting needs defending because it does create strong men as opposed to the emasculated versions championed by the Main Stream media and public schools.

100 years of Scouting; (E)
I perused through all the post and didn't see it mentioned that 2010 is the 100 year anniversary of Boy Scouting in the U.S. Cubs came a little later. Scouting provides a great foundation for boys and young men to build upon. Since I've retired, I've had an opportunity to help with my grandsons and their scouting adventures. I also have nephews in scouting. One working on his Eagle ranking. From what I've seen at school on special days, the young girls like the boys in uniform. Most sports are seasonal, Scouting is year-round. We often see a drop in our attendance during certain sports seasons only to see the attendance increase when the season ends. Practice and workouts schedules compete. Hopefully the person "E" will find a way out of the shallow end of the pool. I enjoy the looks on the young faces when they've discovered something new. I'm also amazed at our round tables how much I can learn from these young un-fouled minds. Scouting encourages learning and builds confidence. Do you need a compass to find a goalpost? We "clock'em during their tests. Congratulations Ms. Hagelin on your Eagles. Semper Fidelis.

Scouting values make a difference
I'm a Scoutmaster in the Detroit Area Council, and Rebecca; this was a great piece! Last night I sat with a Scout doing a one on one conference for his Life Rank. He's just turned 17 and a very cool High Schooler Among the many questions I posed to him, his answer to one really stuck with me. What do you really get out of Scouting? After a few predictable (but honest I think)answers about leadership and teaching experience, camping and self-reliance stuff, he ended it with this: "Scouts is the only place I can go where it feels good to be a guy. It feels good to say the Oath with everyone and be expected to live that way."
... These are moments that keep me going, and I can't think of any words to say that could be more powerful than his.
THANKS Rebecca !

sorry lilly
I don't know why you are equating brown shirts, boy scouts, and Ameri-cops with the hitler youth. The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) has nothing to do with people getting togethor and expressing ideals, it is strickly to help shape boys into men (by this I do not mean that they force you on to a path). In BSA the only thing they do to push you in this orginization is to motivate you to finish meirit badges and learn how and what to do if your power goes out (whitch any one who lives in NH knows happens often (ice storm last year)). and as for your only "source" is an other OPPINION based thread then I would do more research before you post.

I also this this artical was very well writen and I encourage any one who has a kid get them in scouting; it motivates you in school and life.

Stop the bashing
If you don't like Scouting start or support your own male youth based character building, leadership developing, faith supporting program, and any other qualifications you want to impose or remove. There are other programs out there. Some impose more faith, some none, some include gays some not. So find what works for you and support it. Who knows maybe you can build it to something the size of the BSA, maybe not. But please quit the pointless put downs. You stated your position, you don't like Scouting. You said it, it's out there. Now go away. Oh, but I forget, it's your right to express yourself, just like a dog. You are compelled to mark your territory, to let everyone know you're here.

Scout experience
Wonderful years. I'm 55 and still remember the subtle lessons learned back then. Camping, hiking, learning, courtesy, a code of conduct...
These days when I open a door for a woman she looks surprised to find a 'gentleman'. We need scouting back..desparately. The amoral entertainment industry & even the educational system offers almost nothing by way of positive images for boys & teens. Ritalin isn't the answer.. Scouting and good,maturing life experiences is what they need.
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