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Friday, June 08, 2007
Rebecca Hagelin :: Townhall.com Columnist
The Immigration Giveaway
by Rebecca Hagelin
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Will the Dems' health care Christmas Present to America be an improvement or detriment to our health care system?


Nobody ever said that being a parent is easy. But do politicians have to make it harder?

Here I’ve been all these years, teaching my three children that you can’t get something for nothing. If you want something, you have to work for it. Now along comes the Senate to debate an immigration bill that would undermine that very principle.

It’s a simple question of mathematics. The Heritage Foundation’s Robert Rector -- probably the most widely quoted expert in the country on immigration -- has crunched the numbers and figured out that the average illegal immigrant family receives about $30,000 annually in government benefits. But that same family pays only $9,000 in taxes.

You don’t need a calculator to see that leaves a short fall of $21,000. As Rector puts it, that’s like having the taxpayers buy every illegal immigrant family a brand-new Mustang convertible every year!

And by taxpayers, of course, I mean you and me. And your neighbors. And your friends. I’m talking about everybody who clings to the notion of fair play and hard work -- who thinks the American Dream is something you strive to earn, not something you passively accept, as if it were a government handout.

Supporters of the Senate bill may want to deride their opponents as xenophobes who hate immigration, but that’s a ludicrous caricature. In reality, they are people who are glad to accept immigrants who come here legally and become American citizens. But they also don’t want their children taught that lawbreakers get a slap on the wrist and win the jackpot prize to live on the government dole.

The bill’s proponents are persistent, though. The status quo is unacceptable, they say, so let’s pass this bill and go from there.

They’re right about the status quo. But for a viable solution, I’d suggest looking to former Attorney General Edwin Meese III, who has published a paper laying out the essential principles of any sensible immigration reform. Mr. Meese was there in 1986when the last amnesty bill passed Congress, so he knows this battle first-handand the many pitfalls of offering amnesty to the masses of people who have broken our laws.

He outlines six principles for reform:

1. America's immigration system must be a national strength and not a strategic vulnerability.

“From a national security per­spective,preventing illegal entry and reducing unlawful presence in the United States is an imperative. An uncontrolled immigration system encourages the circumvention of immigration laws and is a clear invitation to those who wishto take advantage of our openness to cause this nation harm.”

2. The rule of law requires the fair, firm and consistent enforcement of the law, and immigration is no exception.

“Federal, state and local law enforce­ment must be allowed to enforce immigration law consistent with their legal authority. Federal and state governments must provide law enforcement with the necessary resources to enforce and prose­cute these laws, and the federal government should expand programs to assist states and territories in their immigration law enforcement efforts.”

3. Those who enter, remain in, and work in the country illegally are in ongoing and extensive violation our immigration laws.

“Forgiving or condoning such violations by grant­ing amnesty increases the likelihood of further ille­gal conduct. Failure to enforce immigration laws is deeply unfair to the millions who obey the law and abide by the administrative requirements to enter the country legally.”

4. Each nation has the responsibility -- and obligation-- to determine its own conditions for immigration, naturalization and citizenship.

“The United States welcomes those who come here in accord with the law. Individuals who are not citizens do not have a right to American citizenship without the consent of the American people as expressed through the laws of the United States.”

5. Immigration policy should be a fiscal and economic benefit not only for immigrants, but also for the nation as a whole.

“Most individuals and families that immigrate to the United States come seeking economic opportu­nity.Unlike previous generations, however, a gener­ous welfare, education and heal ths ystem with generous eligibility draws poor and low-skill immi­grants into the ranks of the underclass rather than encouraging self-reliance and financial indepen­dence. Policymakers must ensure that the interac­tion of social services and immigration policy does not expand the welfare state and impose significant costs on American society.”

6. A temporary worker program must be temporary,market-oriented and feasible.

“A balanced and well-constructed temporary worker program should diminish the incentives for illegal immigration by providing an additional option for legal temporary labor and, in combina­tion with other reforms, reduce over time the cur­rent population of illegal aliens.”

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About The Author
Rebecca Hagelin is a public speaker on the family and culture and the author of the new best seller, 30 Ways in 30 Days to Save Your Family.
 
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America's Future

These next 2 years are vital to the future of this country. For 2007 we must make certain that McCain/Kennedy or whatever it's called this year does not pass the House. It will pass the Senate. The President will sign it, followed by the Totalization Treaty with Mexico, which qualifies former illegals with just 6 qtrs(18 mo) even if worked illegally, the benefits that we had to work 40 qtrs(10 yrs) to qualify for.

In 2008 we must make the candidates address border security and immigration enforcement.
20-30 million citizens of other countries are in our country illegally, 55% from Mexico, most of the rest from other Central and South American countries. Let's not ignore the leftward voting trends of these countries. It is notable that they picked May Day, an old communist day of celebration for their marches.

Most polls show at least half of the American citizens of Hispanic descent want the borders and laws enforced. Republicans will not win by alienating their current voters to get 40% of a new small block that will grow very large, very fast if amnesty is granted. That will grow the Democrats vote larger and faster as the influx increases exponentially as the result of another amnesty. It will spell the end of the Republican Party. The people who used to vote Republican will stop voting or form a new party. Conservatives will lose political influence and we will slide inexorably towards socialism (it has already started).

Most of what you hear about this issue is political propaganda that tries to convince you to give up your country without a fight, including on Fox News. The big money players are all on board the cheap labor express, they care not that American citizens do not want another amnesty. We know the last one resulted in 10 times the number of illegal aliens and a general disregard of our laws. The next one will be equally successful.

We need Comprehensive Immigration Enforcement, not reform. We need to restore respect for the law and the faith of the American people that their government is not selling them out. Amnesty for the illegal aliens is also amnesty for the corrupt companies who have been employing them. Money trumps everything, including love of country. Multi-nationals have no loyalty to country by definition, they see us as a market, not a nation. They see people as workers, documented or undocumented, no difference. If they can't send the work to where the labor is cheaper, then they want to bring the cheap labor here. Citizenship is meaningless.

If we love our Constitution and our representative Republic and we intend to keep it we must not surrender our sovereignty or abandon the rule of law. Profits must not supercede security. We should not create a new path to citizenship. We have a path to citizenship, more generous than any other country, illegal aliens have ignored it and bad choices do have consequences.

March for America Events June 14, 15, 16

March for America June 14, 15, 16 Washington D.C. and state capitols across the country. Be there or be without a country.

http://www.lframerica.com/march2.html

Six Principles
Excellent outline for the next President to follow. The current one will not.

The critics have won me over.....
Off topic yes, but Rebecca is cute, so it's a good place as any to agree with the critics.....

There is nothing worse than having to put up with the realization that there exists writings that you personally dislike. Sure, there may be others that enjoy the work, but that is no justification for having to allow someone to communicate in a manner with which you personally disagree. Any writing should be groomed to please every individual without exception. If a single reader objects to the style or content of a work, even if such an objection is based on an inability to understand the nuances of what has been written, then the author should sensibly cease working as a scribe.

Castigation of those that employ uncommon debating techniques is especially proper since it is imperative that we protect the sensitivities of readers that either do not comprehend the tactics being employed within a certain style of case presentation, or who prefer all arguments to be drafted in an easy to comprehend, Dr. Seuss-like first reader simplicity. Challenging people to think in a new way, or forcing them to practice articulating their defensive positions on a particular topic is a reprehensible pastime, and any writer that indulges in such deceitful practices deserves to be shunned.

Once every sheep in the meadow bleats in the same manner, we can finally be certain that no ear or eye is exposed to a communication with which they may take exception.

Bah bah for now.

Hopefully, LD
That doesn't mean you're folding your tent.

Most of us get it and like what you write.


On-topic
It looks like scamnesty's off the table for the moment.

Hopefully, McVain's candidacy has also suffered a well-earned mortal blow.


HAHAH!! Brian...
...Looks like you fell for it!!

With BrianR falling for it, only proves he IS the Master!

LOL, Jimmy
Well, over the last couple of days there were some real sourpuss commenters -- supposedly not libs -- chewing on ole LD's butt. I think they were ticked they got zapped and didn't get the satire -- just like every OTHER newbie, BTW!

So, maybe he zapped ME today!

I guess I should get ticked?

Okay, LD, that's it! I hate you!


McCain, D-Ariz??
The caption on the McCain pic above reads:

"Republican presidential hopeful U.S. Sen. John McCain, D-Ariz., greets Nationwide Insurance Company employees following a town hall meeting, Friday, June 1, 2007, at in Des Moines, Iowa."

Maybe I'm not as astute media-wise as I should be, but isn't the "D" before the state (as in D-Ariz) an indication that the politcian is a Democrat from Arizona? When did McCain make it official?

Loyal Democrat
The first time I read one of your posts it almost made me apoplectic. I was so incensed I decided to sign in and start posting just to "straighten you out". Of course, it is a little embarrassing to find out one has been had. But now I look forward to your posts and read your blog (glad you started that). Once one gets where you're coming from, it's funny stuff. It was infuriating when I thought you were serious, because you have that liberal mindset down cold. Thanks for getting me pi$$ed off enough to become Virgina Patriot. Please don't let the wet blankets deprive the rest of us of a ggod laugh.

BTW, Jimmy, here's a gasper for you
Yesterday, he actually directly responded to one of the posters!

I never saw that before. That's like the Lone Ranger taking off his mask!



I had to stagger after an ammonia inhaler.

good not ggod
unintellibible again, LOL

About him responding...
...to us measly commenters: when he (Loyal Democrat) first began, Loyal Democrat and I had it out between the two of us. I'll never forget it because "Pistol" was in the middle of it and "thought" that I was Loyal Democrat as well!!

LOL, Jimmy
Man, there's a blast from the past.

Pistol. He got back after Siberia, but changed his name to one I've forgotten. I think he's still one of the current posters, but can't remember his current name.


Edwin Meese analysis
Thanks for posting a link to the Heritage Foundation policy paper by Edwin Meese, III and Dr. Matthew Spalding. It's probably the most reasoned analysis of this whole mess I've seen anywhere.

Loyal Dem
Yes, many posters on TH.com like your "style", LD.

As I've written before, it does get old and we do have some liberal posters here. It's not like we have to be reminded of our differences or the illogical philosophy of socialist liberalism. Phylo and his ilk remind us daily.

I usually skip your posts because it's same old, same old. I feel sorry for the newer posters who get "caught" by your satirical duplicity. BrianR usually sets them straight.

I'd just like you to post a straight comment once in a while, just to prove you are human and not some COLOSSUS relative running a satire program.




Gentlemen, take your seats
Okay, Senators, so far so good. Shall we continue?

You have shown your huddled masses (snicker) how torn you are over plunging them and their grandchildren into an uncertain future filled with food, water and energy shortages, disease and pestilence, record deficits and incomprehensible entitlements and, of course 150 million extra Mexican/American citizens.

The stock market has taken its scheduled plunge. Now is the time for you men to come riding in. like white knights, and pass an unenforceable amnesty bill at the last minute (just like in the Superbowl) (snicker) and the stock market will climb to unprecedented proportions, making you all millions of dollars.

Let's face it, a the millions in your pockets and war/retirement chests will more than pay for the added security around your gated communities, and allow you all, and your children's children to retire comfortably in Switzerland. Congratulations Senators!

Orwellian
The more I find out about this bill the more enraged I become. Ed Meese, whom Rebecca quotes above, wrote a commentary that appeared in yesterday's Wall Street Journal.

In it, he describes how the "probationary" Z visas will work. Within 180 days of the bill's passage, the government will have to start accepting illegals' applications for them. To apply, the illegal need only present a written affidavit signed by a non-relative and an accompanying document--say, a bank statement or a lease--showing that s/he has been residing here prior to the first of this year.

The thriving document-forging industry should reap record profits, though the forging of the documentation required is easily within the capabilities of the average grade-schooler.

When the "application" is received, DHS will have no more than one business day to issue the probationary Z visa, which leaves virtually no time to conduct any real background check. Issuance of this visa will take precedence over current laws governing illegal entry, so that the applicant could not be deported even if s/he’d been previously apprehended for violating immigration laws. So millions of illegals will obtain instant legality.

There will be an extendable 18-month window of opportunity for incoming aliens to apply for this visa., which will effectively negate any restrictions on immigration during this (extendable!) period.

The icing on the cake is the creation of a huge new program: The Employment Eligibility Verification System. This peach of a deal will require the participation of nearly ALL businesses, regardless of size. ALL workers—including citizens and permanent residents—will have to prove that they’re eligible to work. They’ll have to get confirmation from DHS both to keep their current jobs and to apply for new ones.

As Meese writes, the system “hinges upon the government assembling—accurately and securely—a vast amount of information on millions upon millions of workers and businesses into a single database. Available to numerous federal, state and local agencies, the database would be subject to the same kind of abuse, improper handling, or even identity theft, we’ve seen repeatedly when federal agencies get their hands on similar, ‘confidential’ data.”

George Orwell just got the date wrong.

McCain
McCain & Kyl, both from Arizona are both Dems, as far as I am concerned.


Immigration Bill
Vote Summary

Question: On the Cloture Motion (Upon Reconsideration, Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Kennedy Amdt. No. 1150, As Amended )

Vote Number: 206 Vote Date: June 7, 2007, 08:24 PM

Required For Majority: 3/5 Vote Result: Cloture Motion Rejected

Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 1150 to to S. 1348 (Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2007 )

Statement of Purpose: In the nature of a substitute.
Vote Counts:

YEAs 45
NAYs 50
Not Voting 4

READ MORE VOTE BY LAWMAKER

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/ding-dong-the-bill-is-dead#more-1797


Treason!
Our elected representatives in Congress and the White House are working against the intetests of America, trying hard to destory our nation and our people. What they are doing is treason. Every one of the anti-American traitors who are pushing the destruction of America should be rounded up by "We the People" and tossed over the fence with all their little brown buddies.

Bob

Catch more of Bob at The World According to Bob Http://bobstruth.blogspot.com

redstatesdrink2muchkoolade
You are the one drinking koolade sir. Think you should leave the room and look for some real facts.

You liberals make me ill with your holier than thou attitude, and so hypocritical actions. You aren't thinking about the "poor" Mexicans at all, nor are you the least sympathetic to the many poor Americans who do want to work.

Nor do you understand the poor in the South, who work hard for already low wages, and find the Mexicans undercutting them. Those who would try to get a job in a chicken plant, and find the jobs filled by illegal aliens. This has been going on for years, and we have complained for years. People can scream that they are doing jobs that Americans won't do. It's a lie!! We don't want to work for what illegals work for , true. But we also don't want to live 20 or 30 people to one house, or in a makeshift town in the woods somewhere. We want a job for decent pay, and are being denied this by illegals undercuttin us, and these companies that want a higher profit margin, by paying as little as at all possible.

A pox on you and your liberal buddies..

mamadoc
Great post - extremely well said. This is a terrifying proposal, and it's even more chilling that our elected leaders seem to be ignoring the many consequences this bill will undoubtedly bring.

I challenge the Heritage Foundation
First, Robert Rector is not an expert; he is a demagogue on the mission of finding facts supporting his anti-immigration agenda. Please check Daniel Griswold from the Cato Institute: http://www.freetrade.org/pubs/FTBs/FTB-030.html , as well as http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Neither.htm .

Let us face it, the political elites are in the stalemate; and it looks like that no one has a silver bullet. I do.

It is called the Freedom of Migration Act.
Read about it at http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/immigration.htm .
See it at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i8xbHNCxoU . Please check my “presidential” video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeuB-LEVmdk , as well as my recent video about love and money, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzHa_Hbf27s .

The very concept of immigration as a gift that the wealthy nation provides as a charity to the poor of the world is the source of all the problems. The so called family sponsored immigration is the idiocy arriving from this concept. Should we keep the family sponsored immigration? Should we kill every reasonable immigration reform proposal just to not touch a sacred cow of the family sponsored immigration?

I know that the Freedom of Migration Act is far away from what our political elites can accept. On the other end, we have that stalemate. In the situations like this one, it is the responsibility of intellectuals to forget for a moment about the existing political constellations, to forget what the present Congress can or cannot agree on; and look back into the fundamental values that this country was built upon. From there we need to arrive with the ideal solution, regardless how idealistic it may sound. Then we need to ask politicians on all sides of the issue, what is wrong with the solution based on the fundamental constitutional values, and work up form there to a solution that might be acceptable by the majority of Americans and the legislators.

The Freedom of Migration Act meets these criteria. Has the Heritage Foundation have guts to rise above the politics of the day and stick to cold facts and brutal logic in analyzing our immigration mess? I can understand that thinking like the one of Mr. Robert Rector arrives from embedded beliefs that simply are wrong. It is time for a change. I challenge Mr. Robert Rector and all the immigration experts at the Heritage Foundation to a debate on the Freedom of Migration Act. You set the time and place. Have the cameras rolling; by the end of the day, you all will be on my side.

Regards,

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

Meese Nails It!
Edwin Meese's principles make PERFECT sense! Of course, since they make perfect sense, Phylo, SpaceCadet, Liberal Shill, etc. will start lampooning them shortly. Not to mention, McLame, Kyl, Ted Kennedy (after he sobers up) and sadly, President Bush will probably get his licks in also :(.

LD, as excellent as ever :)!

Nanna
Boy are you in fine form this morning. Sic 'em. The nerve of that blue skinned devil coming in to our house.

And, Nanna, what you said about those jobs we need and have a first right to, is dead right on.

They are supposed to work first in the fields, that's where they ARE needed(lucky for them).

Where they do a good job, but are NOT needed is in construction, manufacturing, general services, processing plants and setting up new businesses for themselves (illegals).

I don't think any reasonable mind after having observed their work, concrete Bob comes to mind, would say they, as a group, are bad workers. That's not the issue.

The issue as you and I and most at TH know, is whether they have been given the right to work in their neighbors territory. Most countries, Mexico included, carefully meter that capacity they will or will not give you regardless of your legality in country X.

People in some countries, ie., Mexico, think we're so rich we must give their poor a chance to work and send home dollars. Well that's nice, but when they come across with no invitation, and just take things in to their own hands, and our business people take advantage of the opportunity to lower costs, sometimes with better but illegal workers, well that is taking things to far.

We are not talking about a million or two million. It's a flood of them, and we all know that floods do damage and generally wreak havoc where ever they occur. So if you have flood problems typically you build a dam or reroute the waters to some place else.

But back at the head waters where floods start we found that if you reroute(no jobs in unauthorized work sites), you dissipate the flood.

Nanna, keep up your good and most needed work. Make sure your neighbors and friends are ready next time we need them for flood control. The people operating our system of flood control are doing such a bad job of it, we may have more flood problems soon.

Rebecca, Here's Something Else
The President Has Taught Your Children:

If the task is hard, or if you just don't want to do it, all you have to do is just go to your employer and tell him the job is too tough, that you are not up to it and then ask for new tools which are exactly like the old tools and then do a half-a55 job. Maybe then tell him if he doesn't like the half-a55 job you did, then maybe he really doesn't like the company in the first place.

And if another task is distasteful to you, just ignore it and tell the boss you will take care of it as soon as he gives you the tools you want (but don't really need) for the other job.

Illegals=SCABS!
So where is the Union outrage?

They come in, TAKE JOBS AMERICANS WERE DOING, drive down wages.

Where are the strikes and the demonstrations against these SCABS?

Where are the Unions???

Meese missing one thing
Meese is right on except for one thing. The laws that allow anchor babies must change.

I met a nurse on vacation that worked in an Arizona hospital. She said every day illegal aliens came across the border, had their babies at U.S. taxpayer expense, and then went back to Mexico to await the day when the family unification immigration policy would allow that child to bring the entire family to the U.S. She also said she had a nurse friend in L.A. that knew of wealthy Central and South Americans who flew to L.A., had their babies at U.S. taxpayer expense, and then flew back home.

The laws that allow these people to abuse us must be changed.

Drop the straw man argument
Gene, those of us against the illegal alien invasion are not saying we must immediately deport all offenders. Quit putting words in our mouths.

If our government ever began to do its DUTY and enforce the laws of the United States, the change wouldn't happen that quickly. There would be deportations as illegals were discovered and some would self-deport as a result of jobs drying up due to enforcement of employer sanctions.

Naturally, the farming and construction (as well as hotel, restaurant, landscaping and other) industries are complaining. They fear the cheap labor gravy train coming to an end. If the insourcing of third world labor ended, they'd have to pay Americans the wage commanded in a free market. Americans would no longer have to compete with people willing to live 20 to an apartment or under bridges (this happened in my home state until the police finally evicted them).

I'll pay any increased costs for goods in those industries if it means I'm freed of paying for all the costs (education, health care, etc.) I'm currently forced to cover for them through my taxes.

I did say something
Really really brilliant, but couldn't get it to post, and I don't want to go through it all again.
Thanks onceamarine.
Now I'll try to post this.

Immigration Reform is Dead
If Bush is remembered for anything, it is likely to be that he attempted to much, and accomplished very little. He's a man of big ideas, but never seems to give much thought as to how they will work, nor how to follow through.

He pushed through a drug bill at the last moment, understimated its cost, and saddled Americans with a huge new entitlement at a time when we already knew that we could not pay the future cost of Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security. Rather than the small idea of simply helping those who needed help the most, he gave it away to everyone. Hence the cost.

He pushed through a "No Child Left Behind Act", which is now costing us $50 billion a year. Again, rather than focussing on the 20% - 25% of the school districts that weren't performing, he rolled everyone into the bill - including the 75% or so that were doing well - or at least okay. Hence it's cost.

He demanded and got a grand idea called the "Department of Homeland Security", a behemoth of an agency that many wondered at the time if it could conceivably be managed at all - given its size. And as Katrina demonstrated, agencies having a specific purpose and need get lost in such a shuffle - and were not able to respond with the organization and urgency required.

He had a grand idea of reforming the middle east in our own image, but once he got there, he had no real idea on how to do it. Now, we're bogged down and fighting not for the grand idea, but for a clerical state that is in disarray, and which will never be a state that reflects our own view of what a democratic state should be. And, again, rather than a cost of $50 billion or $100 billion, we're at 1/2 trillion and counting, and have no idea if and when it will end - or how it will end - given so much depends upon what the Iraqi's themselves decide to do - and when.

He tried to reform Social Security - another grand idea that fizzled because he laid no ground work, and wanted to do it all at once - rather than accept a smaller step.

And now, it's immigration. He didn't want to do one thing well - secure the borders, and then deal with the issues of illegals once Americans knew that another 12 million would not follow the 12 million we already had, he wanted it all. And when he couldn't get it, he lashed out at his own base. And all along, he left the suspicion that the enforcement procedures were window dressing, and that the follow through simply would not work.

In sum, he solved nothing meaningful, and left the problems to someone else. Some future President is going to have to confront the cost of the drug bill in relation to medicaid, medicare and social security. They will have to readdress the federalization of eduction. They will have to try to craft a policy of some kind for Iraq, and they will have to confront immigration all over.

And my bet is that Bush, who got so angry at his base, will stubbornly refuse to do much of anything in his last two years to enforce the laws, meaning when the next President comes in, we'll have another 2 million or more illegals to deal with.

In sum, it didn't get better, it simply got worse.

Grand ideas, little thought for the future, and little concern as to follow through.

In the process, he has shredded the Republican Coalition that appeared to be the party of the future - and of the majority for years to come.

He didn't listen, and never really cared about the Republican parties principals. He cared only about his own ideas. Limited government, fiscal responsibility, re-enforcing and protecting America's culture, and staying out of nation building was simply - to him - something he had not obligation to respect.

Freedom of Migration
The CATO Institute is nothing more than a propaganda organ for the Libertarian Party. The LP has a few good ideas, but mostly they are very naive which is very dangerous in the 21st century and they forget what century we live in. LP policies might be well and good in say 1807, but they are idiotic and dangerous in 2007--none more so than the idea of letting anyone come to the US as long as they are willing to obey the laws of the US.

How would this be done? If you were going to let in say 20 million people, how could you make sure none were criminals or terrorists or carrying TB or AIDS. The US government is so incompetent it can't even process its citizens' passport applications in a timely manner or stop a person from entering the US that they know was carrying a dangerous disease.

So anyone can come to the US as long as they had a job? So, I can import say Chinese engineers (not as good as US trained engineers but they work for much less) and pay them 20% of the normal wages engineers are paid in the US? I could import people from Bangladesh or Cambodia? So the majority of the US is now unemployed or working for third world wages?

Sounds like a good ideas to me. If you were some LP idiot smoking some of the stuff they want legalized.

And Hak, every immigration column you push out this idiotic proposal but never respond to those that point out who stupid it is. So, if you want to debate this fine. Otherwise, stop posting you SPAM. I am sure your posts violate the TH TOS. Few blog TOS allow for posting of the same SPAM message over and over and over again.

Edwin Meese
Puts it clear, and nowhere did I see him say he hated Mexicans, or worried about the cost of lettuce.

Just this one point is all that needs to be considered on immigration.


2. The rule of law requires the fair, firm and consistent enforcement of the law, and immigration is no exception.

“Federal, state and local law enforce­ment must be allowed to enforce immigration law consistent with their legal authority. Federal and state governments must provide law enforcement with the necessary resources to enforce and prose­cute these laws, and the federal government should expand programs to assist states and territories in their immigration law enforcement efforts.”



It is impossible to have equal protection of the Law, any Law, without equal enforcement of the Law.

14th Amendment to our Constitution cannot be said it is racist or unfair.

American Citizens are wholly with-in their own rights to demand equal enforcement of the Law.


14th. Amendment
to the U.S. Constitution



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Can anyone in this argument say the 14th amendment is a racist doctrine?

The last part is foundational to any argument over the Law.

Illegal Immigration is insurrection against the Nations Law and Constitution.

We cannot have one part of this Nation adherring to Law and one part opposing it.

Yet this is exactly what we have going on with this issue that is being used to bring about disunity and anarchy against the very Foundations of the Nation itself.

Once any person comes here illegally, that is just the first law they break and insurrection against the US Constitution.

Every single person who comes here and does so illegally then go on to commit many other crimes.

They break every single traffic law there is, they do so cause they are not licensed to even drive in this country.

Every single one of them commit Fraud with the necessary use of false identity papers.

All of the illegals who take any job commits theft, he must steal someones Social Security # and Name.

He also breaks Federal Law of taking work he is not legally given a right to take.

If he uses any public service he is stealing from the public coffers.

All these laws make him a criminal if he comes here illegally.

This is either we remove all law concerning traffic, hiring, immigration, fraud, theft from the books and allow all citizens to pick and choose which laws they will obey also.

Otherwise we have no such thing as EQUAL PROTECTION OF THE LAW.

We also can remove the Coast Guard.
The Border patrol
The Immigration Service

No need for these services cause the Immigration Laws are all suspended with the acceptance of this crime wave from Mexico.

We just turn our borders over to the control of Mexico, cause they have taken control of it by default anyway.

Radical Republicans (1868 version)
Anchor babies exist because Republicans got this little idiotic change made to the Constitution known as the 14th Amendment which made any person born in the US (and subject to its jurisdiction--as to exempt "Indians") automatic US citizens. Most countries in the world don't allow this. People born in China, Taiwan, Japan, etc aren't given citizenship just because they are born there--citizenship is based on citizenship of the parents, not where they were born.

The bad bill that is on life support now in the Senate would greatly limit the visas available to adult parents of US citizens and eliminate visas issued to brothers and sisters of US citizens, but is this fair? Should a person that came to the US legally, became a US citizen be stopped from having their family join them? I say no. What needs to be done is the repeal of that part of the 14th Amendment (perhaps also digging up of some graves of some Republicans of the 1860s as well might be in order).

Also another change to the Constitution that would allow states to prohibit illegals aliens from attending public schools as well as allowing them to refuse treatment in any hospital or other health provider except in the cases where 1) the person's life (not health, but life) is in immediate danger or the illness is a threat to the community at large, and banning all other social services offered to those not in the US legally.


Rebecca, a Dollar Short
I have a big problem with Rebecca's guiding assumption: that citizenship is something we have to earn. Let's see, how did I "earn" my citizenship? Oh, right, I was born here in America -- the same way my parents and grandparents "earned" theirs. Her argument is rather silly in fact.

There are various perspectives on immigration of course. On my blog (click on name above), I explain why I think the collapse of the immigration proposal is an absolute disaster for Republicans and conservatives. Comments are always welcome. Have a great weekend!

steve

Stupid politicians
Even I can see that if we stopped the anchor babies, closed our borders, and enforce the laws we already have(a fence and closed borders being among them) we would put an end to most of this illegal alien problem.

Of course I don't have big business lobbying me to get slave labor. I don't have my party telling me I've got to try and get Mexican votes.

These people are so power, and money hungry, they have forgotten that their duty is also to average Americans, and what is best for them.The Republicans for the most part, are weak kneed, spineless, water carriers for the democrats.
We have a few that are really strong, but for the most part they are woosies.

Steve
Each time I hear from you you sound more ignorant than the last time. Soon check and see if drool is beginning to drip off you chin.

Each American that has been lucky enough to be born here, had someone that had to work hard for the privilege. It then became OUR duty to protect what they had worked for, and make others work in the same way our forefathers did, not GIVE it away, just because someone wants to sneak across the border, and take it.

That is what Mexico wants to do. They want to TAKE what people here have worked hard to make.They want America to just let them take their jobs, their welfare, their hospital and doctor care, they want to drive drunk, and kill about 12 Americans a day. They want to ignore our laws as if they don't apply to them. And some ignorant do gooders, or money hungry business people want to let them have their way.

If someone will wait in line, and come here legally, that is fine. But don't try and steal my country!!!

YOU JUST DO NOT GET IT!
It is not a give away. It is the Robin Hood approach. Our rapidly becomming irrelivant President, his rich buddies in industry, and the Liberals that would do anything for a larger voter base will do anything to fill this country up with uneducated, cheap labor that are easily scared and fooled to voting the way they want. The Government steals tax money away from hard working American tax payers in order to provide every free hand out possible to illegal immigrants. The best way to stop this problem is to stop reelecting members of Congress. One term and your out!!! This is also a good plan for the President!!!

RR

Retro Ranger
You got that right!!! Of course the only leverage we the people have is the fear that they won't be re elected should they cross us too much. Now this bunch of Rinos can be voted out. But what they are counting on is that people will forget, much like so many have forgotten 9/11.

Sparcboy, good point and one more
The rate of legal immigration must be controlled. Too many people of ANY race, ethnicity, or class is detrimental for MANY reasons:

- more people = more crowding. I'm stuck in traffic far too much now and building/widening roads is EXTREMELY expensive, slow, and messes up traffic further until completion.

- more people = more schools. Again, very expensive. Due to their massive population growth, California has to open a new school every day of the year just to keep up!

- more people = more housing. Urban sprawl gets worse. More demand pushes prices through the roof (think of the repairs! ;-) ). Builders and realtors love it as do "flippers", but average people get priced out of the market.

- more people = more businesses to serve and employ them. Urban sprawl gets worse. Where are our open green spaces?

-more people = more trash. More landfills. Not in my backyard!

-more people = more drinking water required. A very scarce commodity. Yes you can use desalinators and generate more, but those are very expensive and energy intensive.

-more people = more energy. More oil, coal, nuclear power is needed to supply them. With our national supply of oil nearly maxed out (unless more drilling is allowed, but that won't cover us) we become more dependent on countries that hate us. Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, etc are NOT our friends. Alternative energy, like wind, solar, ethanol, and geothermal are limited by the areas you can place them and so have a finite capacity.

-More people = less energy independence. See above. This is one of the most crucial issues of our time. Stop funding dictators (Mideast, Venezuela, etc) with our dependence on foreign oil.

-More people = more jails. Again, very expensive.

-More people = more food. But sprawl and Real Estate prices are make farms go away. We have plenty of food now, but by consuming more domestically and reducing crop land, we'll have less to export, which hurts our trade deficit.

I think our population is growing FAR too fast and it is 90% driven by immigrants and their children. Birthrates in the US, when you exclude immigrants and their children, like Europe, are at or below replacement levels, which I think is fine.

Explain this; somebody
I am at a loss to understand how it has been glossed over that almost all the people flying in this country are legal, safe, citizens or legal tourists and business people yet every one of them has to undergo a screening to get on a plane. On the other hand almost all of the people taking a hike in our southwest desert who cross the border are illegal immigrants with no known identity or purpose only a presumption of pupose yet the President of the United States has no problem with this illegal, anonymous entry for reasons unknown and unknowable is OK with that? This guy who makes grand gesture and speech about being the War on Terror President and wants to listen to our phone calls and open our mail, peek into our shoes and under our clothes so we can fly from Poukeepsie to Topeka to see Uncle Albert is the same guy who wants to let anyone with enough shoe leather and gumption to come here on the sly as long as you come from Mexico?
Why is this dichotomy getting so little ink? Me thinks the press should be slamming this immigration policy that is so totally at odds with the war on terror policy.
As a natural born 5th generation American I find it obscene that I have to undergo the rigamarole in an airport while a who knows what can take a merry jaunt in to Texas, New Mexico, Arizona or California and our War on Terror President presuposes me to be a threat and them not to be.
That guy really needs a couple rounds in a WWF ring to get some common sense knocked into him. And the conservative press including the writers and commenters on Townhall ought to give themselves a good enough slap up side the head to make them wake up to this. This needs to be presented as starkly and loudly and as often as possible. I know it is late in the game but maybe this can be our hail mary pass.
Yes I have read a tad of this position but me thinks it should have gotten top billing.
Can somebody explain why not?

RedStates etc
RSD2MK posted, "the average Illegal works harder in a week than any of your kids will in a year."


That's nothing but pure BS. I've worked around and with illegals for decades in Texas and illegals work no harder or better than anyone else.

PS: I see you've changed your screen name, RSD2MK. Did TH.com 86 you? If not, they should have.

Saved Sailor
Saved Sailor, I'm with you 100%. I still don't get this drive that we seem to have to rival countries like Bangladesh for tops in population density. What's so wrong with a stable population? An increasing GDP means nothing if that figure is divided up by ever increasing numbers of people.

I'm not some green eco warrior and I know that our country COULD support a much larger population -- but at what cost? Does quantity mean quality? I like the wide open spaces of America, and I think it is time that we start to realize that we don't offer our compassion to the world by letting every willing soul the ability to live in our country.

What really gets me are guys like McCain and many lefty global warming types that talk about environmental doom and gloom and then want to add upwards of hundreds of millions of people inside our borders. You can't get around the fact that more people means more CO2 output and more impact on our land in every conceivable way.

North American Union
Hopefully this bill dying has stopped, if only temporarily, the Presiden's plan for a North American Union.

I heard he had a stomach problem for awhile yesterday at the summet. I think it was when he got word about the immigration bill.

Stay alert, it will return!!

PEEPEL OF MASSA!!!!
AFTER 789 YUORS OF kENNEDY..
DON'T YOU THINK IS TIME TO DETHONE THAT louse???

Please - tell us why do you keep on
electing a dripping caca??

MATH & $$
Roughly:
every illegal family pays $10k in taxes, but takes $30,000 in "help" from my and other American citizens' pockets.

MKKain, Cennedy - why is that right in your drugged, socialistic minds??
Some dudes are very, very... VERY SICK!!!

see a shrink, cause we cannot help you.


How to get the illegals home
1. Do not allow enrollment in school without a birth certificate or proof of citzenship.

2. Do not allow food stamps, hospitalization (other than ERoom) without citizenship papers or birthcertificate.

3. Do not allow payment of SS benefits without proof of citizenship,

The migrant workers come here, take money back to Mexico and still live the rest of the year handsomely. While here, they get to work. They are not entitled to Social Aid.

When it was time for my mother to draw SS, because she was born at home in 1906 during a storm, without a doctor in attendance, she did not have a birth certificate. this snafu did not prevent her from paying taxes, only when it came time to draw SS, she did not exist.

It took two years for her to draw her measely 200 bucks a month. I had similar difficulties for different reasons. S.S. seems to know all about us who work and contribute. How is that an illegal can put one over on the systerm so easily and how is it that our brave new lawmakers will help them do that!???


What happens to Bush now?
He's under 30%, and he's angry at his own base, which he called, for all practical purposes, both stupid and racist. So where does Bush go from here? What of any value can he now accomplish - given the Republicans in the Senate voted almost down the line to kill this bill, and most of the house would've done the same. Only 27% or so of the people now have confidence in his ability to run the war, and 63% of Americans are now saying they want the troops home in '08. Is that because they're all disloyal - not at all.

They don't trust Bush. And they don't really believe him anymore.

And a lot of those people are good Republicans.

So what's left for this president other than going back to Texas and sitting on his deck until his term expires.

He had his run, I guess. But one conservative congressman commented out of sheer frustration not long ago that this President has transmitters, but no receivers. He just doesn't listen.

And now, most Americans no longer listen to him.

Kind of fitting, wouldn't you say?

Eben
Good post! Good summary of Bush's failures. Here Reagan almost dismantled the Dept of Education and Bush has made it a huge mess.

As a teacher for 40 years, all one needs is a book, a piece of chalk, a creative teacher, and a student that can be disciplined. Now all the fault is the teacher's; not the family, not the community, and heaven forbid, not the pupil's.

We do not need tax dollars pumped into this system that ultimately puts all the responsibility on the teacher and not on the student, family, commu ity where it belongs.

Seniors would be healthier if they didn't take so damn many drugs and would probably live longer. I am not signing up for D! I will pay for my own drugs. Thanks

Politicans
Why can't these people understand that when we said we want something done about illegal immigration, we meant things like closing the borders, and like Meggy said, stop the perks, and get these people to leave. Lock the criminals up until they can ship them back to Mexico. And that should be post haste.

We weren't thinking of them doing something by giving them amnesty, and thus wiping out the illegal part. How stupid can you get. Hopefully these idiots will be voted out next time.

round 2 also to Middle America

I agree with the warnings by some that this fight is just getting going good... Presidente Jorge has proven how stubborn he is-- and how often indubitably wrong! The Conspiracy Of Evil is also not amused that their attempt at back room Scamnesty has been thwarted-- for now!

Sen. Byron Dorgan IS indeed a true patriot. He is actually a liberal 'Crat, but in the traditional, good sense of the term-- he actually stands up for the working person rather than speak about something in the manner of a demagogue for power.

There were a couple of other 'Crat patriots who were newly elected (a fact missed by those in the MM when analyzing the 2006 results vis-a-vis immigration attitudes)-- Senators Webb and McCaskill-- who helped drive the stake in the black heart of this egregious attempt at treachery toward Middle America by Teddy Homicide, Juan McQuisling, Presidente Jorge, Spectercide, Linseed Grahamos, Martinez, Salazar, and Menendez. [Has anyone noticed that it is not seen as "racist/ethnocentric" for latino Senators to work tirelessly for ILLEGAL alien lawbreakers, BUT it is allegedly "xenophobic, selfish and uncaring" if Middle America challenges them as a practical matter and has the temerity to suggest that we simply enforce the rule of law and existing laws?!]

It certainly ain't over, but it's a DEFINITE victory. It COULD be a watershed point. No, we have not gotten 20 million ILLEGALS to return home, nor have we restored the will to build that wall-- Presidente Jorge will still plague us for some time in welcoming his friends for miscreant employers and his open borders, bilingual, NAU MexiAmeriCanada agenda. He recently PROMISED Mexicans while down in Mexico that he would work for THEM on immigration "reform" in America! Holy Mary, Mother of God! That is nothing short of TREASON, folks!

It WAS Middle America's righteous indignation which derailed this travesty express for now.
Notwithstanding the imperious, blasphemous, disingenuous, ad hominem drivel about "racism" and "fearmongering," from Jorge and others like Linseed Grahamos, Americans who had some understanding of this bill opposed it over 2:1 according to Rasmussen (50% to 23%). Middle America rightfully did not trust the govt. promise of enforcement first (see shell game of 1986 Simpson-Mazolli bill perpetrated on Reagan and America), and RIGHTLY saw it as granting Scamnesty to perhaps 20 million. That would have irretrievably morphed America into a declining welfare state as we sloched toward third world Gomorrah.

At the end of the day, it WAS grassroots America which again derailed this sell-out attempt of the American Way. We can rejoice a bit that the vox populi of the Republic worked again-- it too seldom does anymore. The nefarious powers that be had tried to do this Cramnesty behind closed doors-- little known is that they skipped the normal committee hearing process because they did not want open discussion and expert testimony from border guards, INS, etc., to see the light of day-- lest the electorate might be TRULY informed, alarmed and outraged. [Afterall, Shrillary, Teddy, Hussein Obama, et al know what is REALLY best for you!]

America would be a TERRIBLE THING TO LOSE, folks. The sad truth is that there are elitists who fathom that national borders should not matter anymore, because they hinder their ability to bleed cheap labor. They really do not care about the decimation of public schools, hospitals and social services, and the inexorable balkanization and cultural enervation, because THEY will remain remote from "those people" anyway. The closest elites get to ILLEGAL aliens is when the latter bow deferentially from the flower beds as the elites pass by to their Mercedes SUV's.

The most pernicious and insidious of the elites are the remote so-called PC, anti-America, multiculturalists (Shrillary, e.g.) who want to be the demagogues to the madding crowd of great unwashed, ignorant, indigent that they hope to see keep coming. That would assure their Big Brother entitlement govt. hegemony uber alles.

Here below are a few links where you can learn more, get engaged, AND find easy, free ways to contact Congress. The first is EXCELLENT-- bookmark it; the 2nd shows how Americans REALLY feel about immigration when asked detailed, unloaded questions; the third shows highlights from Heritage about the REAL costs that this Cramnesty attempt would have meant to YOU. Wanna get really lathered up? See the 4th about the reconquista advocates (some backed by socialists and communists, but ethnocentric racists regardless) manipulating YOUR govt.

May God bless America and save her from myopia and the threachery of the powerful "elites."

http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back906.html
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/15/AR2007051502022.html
http://www.cis.org/index.cgi
http://www.grassfire.org/
http://www.firesociety.com/article/12134/
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20530
http://www.amren.com/Reports/Hispanics/HispanicsReport.htm
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54132
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back704.html
http://capwiz.com/usbc/index_frame.dbq?url=http://capwiz.com/usbc/home/
http://www.grasstopsusa.com/
http://www.americanpatrol.com/
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43275
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010148&mod=RSS_Opinion_Journal&ojrss=frontpage
http://www.theamericanresistance.com/articles/art2004jan04.html

Oh yeah
I was phoning those today who voted nay on the cloture vote on this stupid bill to thank them. I was phoning all Republicans just as I did when I was protesting. I called Kyl's office, and was told that the Senator wants it made clear that he still supports the bill, and hopes it will come forward again soon.

Be on close watch!!!

Oh, yeah, Eben
You have EXACTLY outlined Bush's problem: he is the lamest of lame ducks, having spent his "political capital" (remember that speech?) on this scamnesty.

He's pretty much just shot his wad, and that's a fact.

Nanna
Caught your earlier message. Yes, I have had a number of lost messages. So I started doing something as to not lose my writing.

I write, and then before sending, I copy the entire thing, and then send.

If for some reason the whole thing gets lost, well my copy is sitting there waiting for me.

I just go to that big blank space where I had put my heart into it, and do a paste. Like magic, the whole message is there again. Send again, and with luck it goes through, if not I do the same thing all over again because it's still saved. Now I am going to do that right now before I hit the post button.

By the way I 'll repeat what I said earlier. You are in fine form today. You socked it to Steve..

Lodestar
Do you have these two extremely important LINKS.??.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back706.html

http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/back1703.html

Don't know about you, but they look real good to a few of us.

By the way your writing is fabulous. Like it very much.

Semper Fi..

Can someone tell me..
..where do I see how my two senators from Florida voted last night. Need to thank or scramble both.

Retro Ranger
Good post except for one thing.

I have seen one term and you're out.

That's exactly why Mexico is so screwed up.

They have had that rule since about 80 or 90 years now. It's in the constitution.

It promotes loyalty to the party and not to the people. This is a fact. The way it works is that most or a large number of politicians play musical chairs.

Their time is up in the house so they become one term senators, then one term representatives, then governor of a state, etc. They're very loyal to the party because the public be damned. It's basically up to the party where they will be supported next.

No, No. I have told Mexicans for years, if they want democracy they have to get rid of that.

Semper Fi..

Random Thoughts
1. Has anyone noticed the defeating silence from AARP over the the invasion issue we are all fighting? One would think that with Social Security on the verge of bankruptcy, the AARP would be raising holy hell over Kennedy-McCain. Using the Heritage Foundation numbers there is no way any thinking person or entity (AARP)could agree with Kennedy-McCain. If they think millions of illegals are going to be an asset to the future of Social Security, then they are as crazy as communist Ted Kennedy.
2. When the Senate continues to ignore the will of the people, will they finally listen after a patriot or group of patriots storm the capital and wipe out a few of these Lords of Privelge?
3. Using the Constitution as defense, would it not be plausible for someone to kill a Senator then claim their action as a duty to protect himself, family and country from treasonable act.
I really feel the politicians are fanning the flames of insurrection or revolution.

This President
In now in the process of acting as an enemy of the United States.

Just read that even after the outraged cry of Americans of every political persuasion, the President has called on Hary Reid to bring back the Kennedy inspired overthrow of America's Sovereign Laws and Constitution.

I am calling him (for the first time what I see him to be), a complete traitor to both his oath of office and the US Constitution.

He shows himself to be criminally minded to support illegal immigration, and he is agenda driven with hatred against the US Citizens God Given Rights and Future.

He is more dangereous to this Nation than Osama Bin Ladin and all the terrorists in the world.

In fact I can almost now believe he is the front man for globalists who want this country destroyed, and the War on Terror is inspired by evil men to bring about order out of disorder.

All the while hoardes of unknowns are pouring into this country, the "homeland security" is coming up with laws to restrict Americans from traveling.

The rotteness of Denmark is in our own midst, and we have an evil king, we do not have a President who represnts us.

Now that the 2007 Amnesty
is off the table (however temporarily), maybe we could try implementing the enforcement provisions of the 1986 amnesty?

They are not going to give up.
From the Congressional Record:

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, this vote was obviously a disappointment. I think those of us who have worked on this issue are encouraged by what both leaders have stated, that we are not giving up or forgetting this legislation, and we have every intention of ultimately finalizing and getting a bill.

Several pages at this link. Senator Reid is pathetic.

They are not giving up.

From the horse's...
Get the (unamended) Senate bill from the GPO,
Link to S. 1348 1.43MB :
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:s1348pcs.txt.pdf
(Start at page 512 line 16)

And the unamended House bill,
Link to H.R. 1645 1.27MB (House version of S. 1348):
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_bills&docid=f:h1645ih.txt.pdf
(Start at page 479 then go to page 487 in H.R. 1645)

While you're at it you may as well get the Immigration "Bible",
Link to Title 8, United States Code, "Aliens and Nationality", 2.41MB at the House of Representatives web site:
http://uscode.house.gov/pdf/2005/2005usc08.pdf
(Title 8 is LONGGGGG.)
See page 123, right-side column, near bottom of page:

(6) Illegal entrants and immigration violators
(A) Aliens present without admission or parole
(i) In general
An alien present in the United States
without being admitted or paroled, or who arrives in the United States at any time or place other than as designated by the Attorney General, is inadmissible.

THAT'S why they are called "illegal aliens" when they sneak in across the border. I'll bet (6)(A)(i) is amended/waived by the Scamnesty bills.

We need a "Sunshine" law that requires all bills be developed "in public" unless classified for security reasons. If "AgJOBS Scam Act of 2007" had been developed in public they never would have gotten away with the following:

On Page 541 of S. 1348:

13 (f) TEMPORARY STAY OF REMOVAL AND WORK AU-
14 THORIZATION FOR CERTAIN APPLICANTS.-
15 (1) BEFORE APPLICATION PERIOD.-Effective
16 on the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary
17 shall provide that, in the case of an alien who is ap-
18 prehended before the beginning of the application
19 period described in subsection (a)(1)(B) and who
20 can establish a nonfrivolous case of eligibility for
21 blue card status (but for the fact that the alien may
22 not apply for such status until the beginning of such
23 period), until the alien has had the opportunity dur-
24 ing the first 30 days of the application period to

On Page 542 of S 1348:

1 complete the filing of an application for blue card
2 status, the alien-
3 (A) may not be removed; and
4 (B) shall be granted authorization to en-
5 gage in employment in the United States and
6 be provided an ''employment authorized'' en-
7 dorsement or other appropriate work permit for
8 such purpose.
9 (2) DURING APPLICATION PERIOD.-The Sec-
10 retary shall provide that, in the case of an alien who
11 presents a nonfrivolous application for blue card sta-
12 tus during the application period described in sub-
13 section (a)(1)(B), including an alien who files such
14 an application within 30 days of the alien's appre-
15 hension, and until a final determination on the ap-
16 plication has been made in accordance with this sec-
17 tion, the alien-
18 (A) may not be removed; and
19 (B) shall be granted authorization to en-
20 gage in employment in the United States and
21 be provided an ''employment authorized'' en-
22 dorsement or other appropriate work permit for
23 such purpose.

I don't find any definition of "employment authorized endorsement" or "appropriate work permit" anywhere in the bill. Worse, I don't find any place where there is a time limit or expiration date on an "employment authorized endorsement or other appropriate work permit". If they don't expire why would anyone want to trade one of them for a "Blue Card"?

Just asking...


Lodestar
Yes, good writing indeed. Maybe you should run for office, of course anyone with any sense such as Gingrich will not be allowed in!

However, on Dorgan; Most of his career he has been left of the left. Just lately he seems to have been getting a little sense. I called to thank him for his No vote. But Kent Conrad voted yes. Maybe this was their ploy to end the debate while appeasing the screamers who phoned and wrote constantly like moi!

Talent Scout
You have been a strong voice and a reasoned voice.

What has gotten you so worked up finally.

Join the rest of us.

I guess you read the two LINKS, right.??.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/back1703.html

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back706.html

He is a complete idiot if he thinks we're going to stand for this cr-p. Did you check these LINKS, because Congress stinks real bad there.


Got an E mail from Sen Nelson D-Florida
Says he decided to vote against the Bill.
Do you know if Martinez did or did not vote for this Bill.??.

Mexican TV news...
.....is reporting that certain members of congress have said that the bill is not dead, and they want to bring it up again very shortly, while showing a long spell of Senator Cuntdy from Massachusetts looking rather mad and upset like he was ready to fight again...

Maybe some of his Irish whiskey could have some poison in it.. bless his little B-tt..

I would be a lot more proud of my Irish grandmother if Cuntdy wasn't Irish..

Plain Stupid or What??
Not plain stupid but evil...??

Why is there a cabal in Congress...that constantly drives the amnesty issue...they never quit

They arent stupid..so what are they up to...why is this so damn important to them that they are willing bring down American culture to achieve this...

Are they traitors, are they expecting a windfall of money.......they get 30 pieces of silver to sell out their own Country???

I need to know the answer.....because someone loyal to America, who loves America and its traditions can not do this to America...so what are they then????

Republicans/Conservatives take the hit
As a conservative, I have been embarrassed by the hysterical tone of the discourse regarding this immigration bill.

If the immigration bill is defeated, the borders will remain a sive. Those 12 million plus immigrants, who pick fruit and wash everything from dishes to cars and clean everything from clothes and office buildings will still be here, occupying the lowest rung on the economic ladder and doing the work no one else will do.

Meanwhile, as they eventually assimulate into our society, they are left with a clear memory of an ideology and party that has no compassion and no place for them and their plight.

All known terrorists to date have come into the US via normal legitimate visas (Saudi 9/11 bombers got their visas from the US Embassy in Riyadh, the Arab millieum bomber was coming into the US from Canada, the first World Trade Center bombers had student and other normal visas. None come over the Mexican border).

The shrill and hateful hysteria of conservative talk radio, and a handful of hopeless presidential candidates, is simply pathetic and in the long run, very damaging to the conservative cause. Reason, rationality and compassion should reign supreme for Conservatives, instead we have sustain the stereotype of hateful xenophobic rubes.
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