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Monday, July 28, 2008
Phyllis Schlafly :: Townhall.com Columnist
The NEA Spells Out Its Policies
by Phyllis Schlafly
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The nation's largest teachers union, the National Education Association, attracted 9,000 delegates to its annual convention in Washington, D.C. over the Fourth of July weekend. Delegates sported buttons with provocative slogans such as "Gay marriage causes Global Warming only because we are so hot!", "Hate is not a family value," "The 'Christian Right' is neither," and "Gay Rights are civil rights."

The delegates passed dozens of hard-hitting resolutions that now become the NEA's official policy. The resolutions authorize NEA members and employees to lobby for those goals in the halls of Congress and state capitols.

NEA resolutions cover the waterfront of all sorts of political issues that have nothing to do with improving education for schoolchildren, such as supporting statehood for the District of Columbia, a "single-payer health care plan" (i.e., government-run), gun control, ratification of the International Criminal Court Treaty, and taking steps "to change activities that contribute to global climate change."

The NEA fiercely opposes any competition for public schools, such as vouchers, tuition tax credits, parental option plans, or public support of any kind to non-public schools. The NEA strongly opposes designating English as our official language even though such a designation is supported by more than 80 percent of Americans.

The NEA opposes home schooling unless children are taught by state-licensed teachers using a state-approved curriculum. The NEA wants to bar home-schooled students from participating in any extracurricular activities in public schools even though their parents pay school taxes, too.

The NEA wants many additional (job-creating) services and programs to be provided by public schools such as early childhood education (i.e., baby-sitting for preschoolers). NEA resolutions call for "programs in the public schools for children from birth through age 8," and for "mandatory kindergarten with compulsory attendance."

NEA resolutions include all the major feminist goals such as "the right to reproductive freedom" (i.e., abortion on demand); "comparable worth" (i.e., government control of wages according to feminist ideology rather than the free market); full funding for the feminist boondoggle called the Women's Educational Equity Act; and "the use of nonsexist language," i.e., censoring out all masculine words such as husband and father.

The NEA even urges its affiliates to work for ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment. The ERA was declared dead by the U.S.

Supreme Court 26 years ago.

The influence of the gay lobby is pervasive in dozens of NEA resolutions adopted by 2008 convention delegates. Diversity is the code word used for pro-gay indoctrination in the classroom.

The NEA's diversity resolution makes clear that this means teaching about "sexual orientation" and "gender identification," words that are repeated in dozens of resolutions. The NEA demands that "diversity-based curricula" even be imposed on preschoolers.

NEA convention delegates were invited to an open hearing by the SOGI Committee in Room 149A on July 1. In case you don't know, SOGI stands for Sexual Orientation Gender Identification.

The NEA urges its members to offer "diverse role models" via the "hiring and promotion of diverse education employees in our public schools." The NEA puts "domestic partnerships, civil unions, and marriage" on an equal footing.

The NEA wants every child, regardless of age, to have "direct and confidential access, without notification to parents, to comprehensive health education. That would include things such as learning how to use condoms for premarital sex, as well as social, and psychological programs and services."

The NEA wants public schools to take over the physical and mental care of students through school clinics that provide services, diagnosis, treatment, family-planning counseling, and access to birth control methods "with instruction in their use." Family planning clinics are called on to "provide intensive counseling."

The NEA wants all sex-education courses, textbooks, curricula, instructional materials and activities to include indoctrination about sexual orientation and gender identification plus warnings about homophobia.

The NEA is very generous with taxpayer money spent on illegal immigrants. The NEA not only favors amnesty for illegal-immigrant students, but also in-state college tuition and financial aid to illegal-immigrant college students.

The NEA is strong for "multicultural education," which the resolution makes clear does not mean studying facts about different countries and cultures. It means "the process of incorporating the values" and influencing "behavior" toward the NEA's version of "the common good," such as "reducing homophobia."

Of course, the NEA supports "global education" to teach "interdependency in sharing the world's resources." It's also no surprise that the NEA adamantly opposes any requirement that schools "schedule a moment of silence."

Will parents be silent about the radical goals of their children's teachers?

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About The Author

Phyllis Schlafly is a national leader of the pro-family movement, a nationally syndicated columnist and author of Feminist Fantasies.
 
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Good works
Thanks you Phyllis for your "Good Works". I have many teacher friends and they do not support these NEA radicals.

Having come from a family of teachers...
and being a former teacher myself, these NEA radicals are not representative of public school teachers. This kind of agenda will help to mobilize social conservatives when John McCain hasn't been able to do so. Allowing this kind of garbage to be pushed on our children is part of the Marxist doctrine to start with the universities, indoctrinate the new teachers who will, in turn, indoctrinate the little children. I am for school vouchers, charter schools, home schooling and any other form of teaching that doesn't create little cut-outs that spout all the liberal garbage they are taught, foresaking the teaching of their parents and grandparents and foresaking the foundations of our society.

Mrs. Schlafly
The radicalness of the NEA is one of several reasons I chose to stop teaching and become a homeschool mother.
I just thought I would thank you for your work before the predictable childish and embarrassingly ignorant name-calling begins.

Stand up to these nuts
How did the homosexual lobby so thoroughly infiltrate the education establishment?

And now that they control the NEA, they seek to indoctrinate children with their obscene agenda virtually from birth.

Someone needs to stand up to these evil people. Yes, evil. And thoroughly anti-American.

Schools
in America are just indoctrination factories.

The power they want over our kids is alarming.

Our Schools Have Perpetuated PC
for so long that our chickens have come home to roost in current and future generations for many years to come. There is no EARTHLY REASON why the Democratic Party is even still around. If public schools had been putting out children who could reason, the Democratic Party would have long since ago gone the way of the do-do bird and the Whigs Party. Instead, you find the GOP going the way from whence they came - the Whigs Party exit from the political stage. The GOP will now amalgamate into the Democratic Party monster it refuses to oppose. It already is virtually indistinguishable. And what did the GOP do during all of this time that our youth were being indoctrinated and our culture and civilization was being destroyed in the classroom - NOTHING! In fact, they SUPPORTED IT!!!!!!!!!! They chose to commit Political Suicide by letting the opposition party indoctrinate the future voters of America in the ways of Political Correctness. A vote for McCain is a vote to perpetuate the selling out of future American generations and the entire nation. Vote 3rd party and end the madness.

Be Afraid, Very Afraid!!!
Those horrible teachers. You know they must be really dedicated to their anti-mericn philosophies and agendas. First, at least four years of brainwashing at some horrible university (and they even pay tuition for this c.i.a-esque torture.) Then, off to an underapreciative community, for meager salary. All for the opportunity to brainwash a few conservative offspring. Perhaps we should admire them for their perseverance, even if they are, obviously, only out to do harm to the wonderful mericn way of life. Phyllis, please investigate... some evil educator has spiked your Geritol, probably when you were distracted by those offensive buttons at that commie uprising (nea convention) Thanks for your bravery... it must have been petrifying to have been there.

Missed one
I think this article missed one of the other planks. The NEA is pushing for slavery reparations.

These radical teachers
are a great addition to the argument FOR school vouchers.

democracy at work
the key point is that the NEA is as democratic an institution in its
internal politics and public policies as any institution in the US.

If you were an NEA member and you don't like it you need to get
50% +1 members at next year's convention to overturn it.

And yes, the NEA does represent the views of their members imho -
not perfectly, but generally. So does the US government imo.

I do think they should focus on issues more directly related to
education, but since I am not a member my opinion matters as
much as Schlafly's.

Robin, EB, jaybird, Anna, tbtg, et. al.
Robin, it seems you (and many other posters) conflate what the
NEA would like and what is taught. As a child of teachers you
should know this by experience.

ElizabethBennet, How did the NEA's "radicalness" effect your teaching?

To all, the NEA does not create curriculum for state or local school
districts. It does try to influence it in a similar way that say the
Eagle Forum might.

jaybird, "evil?" And how do you know this?
I don't know about homosexual agenda, what I do know is that
teachers in public schools have no choice about the students before
them - homosexual, Nazis, transgender, severely handicapped, etc.
etc. (I've had all of these in my classes) - this in my experience tends
to make for a tolerant view on the treatment of people.

Anna, of course they are. That is not a problem or imo should not
be. It is what they are indoctrinating in - if its skepticism, empathy,
grammar, a specific handwriting system, you might be all for it.

Private schools are indoctrination "factories" too. Heck, so are
families. The benefit with public schools is that you have a say in
what gets taught.

take back, your analysis is weak if you think the Republican Party
is weakening, as opposed to strengthening as it arguably had been
from 1978-2003, because of public education you have terrible
powers of analysis. Two words to help you get started on rethinking
your ideas; war economy.

jayhawk, your analysis or reasoning is worse than take back's and
if you think Phyllis was actually there you have another thing
coming. She is a commentator not a reporter.


NEA - Teachers in Name Only
Unfortunately this vast, organized and well funded group has become an influential voice in public education - to the detriment of many good, honest dedicated teachers. Ms Schlafly's column should be in every newspaper in the country - let the people know! Many parents are not aware of what is happening in our schools today. As for "Gay Rights are Civil Rights" that phrase is as oxymoronic as the moron who thought it up! At the risk of being politically incorrect, "gays" have no (special) rights - nor do they deserve special rights. Every resident of the U.S. is entitled to all the rights granted [us] in the constitution. Sexual preference does NOT give anyone special rights.

Thank the Democrats
The NEA is, quite simply, promoting child abuse on a grand scale. And of course it is completely in the Democratic camp and a major contributor. It's because of that influence in the Democratic Party that what these nut jobs are saying cannot be dismissed and will end up eventually in the classroom. Dems should be proud of the damage they do this country.

Indebted
I wish more people knew of Phyllis Schlafly and her contributions. That is one life anyone, male or female (I only count those two) would be wise to emulate. She is one amazing woman who is somehow almost totally unknown to the public at large. Their loss.

Jayhawk has been
hanging upside down in NZed too long. Not good for the brain power. And that's an especially important consideration in his case, as he's likely to need the little he has left.

The NEA isn't concerned with learning or students. They are just another socialist liberal democrat (but I repeat myself) special interest group, not worthy of any serious discussion or debate.

If you are truly concerned with education in America, the NEA is the last group you would look to for any substantive ideas.

School Choice is not optional anymore.
I'm a homeschool parent, and, homeschooled my 2 adult sons they're now 23+ and I have a daughter 7 that I am currently homeschooling.

I really think that the only way we're going to have proper education and not all about right and left politics is returning the control of education to the communities and disbanding the Bored of Education and "teacher" unions (pun intended).
Not all parents can homeschool, be it by choice or economic necessity, but, not enough parents are taking responsibility for what their kids learn.
It's easy to "trust" the schools because they don't realize how much the content of text books have changed in the last 20 years. More people are waiting longer to have their kids and doing it at later ages so they're even further out of touch.
Education isn't about ABC's and 123's anymore and that is the missing link. It's about reviving the 60's-70's peace, love, DOPE, way of thinking and throwing away traditional American values and principals. The work hard, study hard, reap rewards ethic is gone.
Instead it's been replaced with social PC and an entitlement attitude and empowered by a severe lack of accountability for the failure.

The politicians want equality what we need is competition for better education. If the states lost money for every child that went into a alternate school situation. The NEA would be gone with the wind and the Bored of Education would be abolished. The American parent would prevail.

Dumbing of America
NEA's "Global Education" to "teach interdependency in sharing the world's resources".. shows clearly how truly stupid the NEA is. I have decided to send three sons to Brazilian private schools many years ago. The results were stunningly positive! While the NEA claims that spending over $ 10,000 per student a year is inadequate, Brazil does far better on $ 2,000 per year cost.

The only major accomplishment of our educational system over the past three decades is the dumbing down of our young. We have reached a point where we don't even take part in international Math competition as the results would be too embarassing.
Obama is a pretty good example of this and, unfortunately, he obviously has many supporters who have had a similarly terrible education.
Every people have the government they deserve. Decades of liberal government in California, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania have all but de facto bankrupted these states, yet their people don't seem to be any wiser in spite of this. America seems to be eager to follow these states with more taxes, more regulations and this is indeed very good for Brazil, Russia, India and China.

Dumb Americans
NEA's "Global Education" to "teach interdependency in sharing the world's resources".. shows clearly how truly stupid the NEA is. I have decided to send three sons to Brazilian private schools many years ago. The results were stunningly positive! While the NEA claims that spending over $ 10,000 per student a year is inadequate, Brazil does far better on $ 2,000 per year cost.

The only major accomplishment of our educational system over the past three decades is the dumbing down of our young. We have reached a point where we don't even take part in international Math competition as the results would be too embarassing.
Obama is a pretty good example of this and, unfortunately, he obviously has many supporters who have had a similarly terrible education.
Every people have the government they deserve. Decades of liberal government in California, Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania have all but de facto bankrupted these states, yet their people don't seem to be any wiser in spite of this. America seems to be eager to follow these states with more taxes, more regulations and this is indeed very good for Brazil, Russia, India and China.

Mission migration
Jurists discontented with interpreting laws have set about the more glamorous business of writing them.

Unfulfilled legislators have sought to usurp presidential power for so long that they've all but forgotten how to be legislators. Hence the nauseous spectacle of the Senate Judiciary Committee, made up of people who still write laws now and then, interrogating a nominee for attorney general about whether waterboarding is *illegal*. (They don't know?)

Presidents seem bored with superintending the executive branch in behalf of living Americans. They prefer to campaign among foreigners -- Obama is evidently running for Secretary General of the U.N., as Bill Clinton did -- or among the unborn in a practice often dignified by the term _legacy building_.

Reporters want to be advocates. Quasiliterate musicians want to be politicians. Inside your own doctor or insurance salesman is a bad novelist struggling to escape.

It's hardly astonishing, then, that teachers have largely given up on teaching much of lasting value or even immediate use. Dabbling in psychotherapy, activism, indoctrination, or molestation is more rewarding.

As usual, the lady is spot on
ONE addition i would make is in this sentence:
"Diversity is the code word used for pro-gay AND MOSLEM indoctrination..."

Two little words and I agree wholeheartily.

Have you seen *diversity* touted for any other than these 2 (two) reasons?

When teachers vote
they do not vote the NEA agenda and most all teachers do not agree with their statements. The NEA is a disgrace to the best teachers in the USA and therefore will disintergrate at some point.

everyonesfacts
"Private schools are indoctrination "factories" too. Heck, so are families. The benefit with public schools is that you have a say in
what gets taught."

That one statement alone identifies you as unhinged and causes me to dismiss anything else you might have to say as the work of an activist with an agenda.

What a maroon.

Gandalf
If Mrs. Schlafly is a "maroon," I wonder where that leaves you. I am sure you have no agenda.

An old adage with a new twist
"Those that can, do."

"Those that can't, teach."

"Those that can't teach, advocate."

PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE

.....The NEA are the Storm Troopers of Radical Liberalism ...just as Hitler's Youth Movement was designed to mold Germanys youth into obedient Fascist/Socialists ...so is the NEA determined to change our society through indoctrination in the public schools ...

.....Their mindset is the same as Marx ...children do not belong to their parents, they belong to the State ...

.....If parents are willing to turn their children over to the State ...then we are already lost as a great nation .....COLOSSUS

NEA IS A POLITICAL ADJUNCT TO THE DEMS

.....PERHAPS MANY MEMBERS DO NOT SUPPORT THIS RADICAL AGENDA ...BUT THE UNION LEADERS CONTROL THE FUNDS ....they contribute vast sums of money to defeat voter initiatives and support liberal politician and judges ...

.....They are in effect, fund raisers for the most radical aspects of the Democrat Party .....COLOSSUS

Gandalf better check the facts!
What's sad is the real Gandalf in JRR Tolkien's epics The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings, was a wise man.
The Gandalf on Townhall shows he's not.
If you think parents currently have any control in public schools anymore then I think you should check out CA's SB777 and the Congress' HR 3289 and HR 2343 and see how much control we have.The level of government and union control is rapidly reaching a level not seen in the free world since Hitler, Marx, Stalin, and the KKK. Their philosophy was indoctrinate them young and keep them away from their parents as much as possible.
Do your checking and see if you maintain that position for much longer.


wiseone
"Those that can't teach, advocate."

Outstanding post.

NEA == satan's "useful idiots"
I can't think of an agenda that would lead this country to h--- and God's condemnation faster than that presented in this column. Of course, they are deluded into thinking they are building a "fairer, kinder America".

I went to a Vision Forum conference a couple of weeks ago, where parents brought their home-schooled kids in attendence. Talk about bright, respectful, and well-behaved kids! We joked that it appeared the cure for ADD was to fix the attention deficit of parents TO their kids! Doug Philips pointed out that, even though home-schooled kids make up less than 10% of graduating seniors, they make up over 34% of thoses earning merit scholarships. That says a lot.

Failure of Public Education on Display..
Poor Gandalf is assailed for rightly lambasting Everyonesfacts. The level of reading comprehension and critical thinking skills of Susan and Edna is at the Kindergarten level.

Gandalf is agreeing with Schlafley.

99%...
of greedy, ungrateful, ultra left wing teachers and their unions of Communist thug storm troopers are the sworn enemies of taxpayers/parents and especially children. More to follow.

You may not be able to read
It is time the unions for educators get back to the job of education. Currently they seem to believe that feeling good about oneself is the most important value to come from a high school education.

Instead of using classrooms as support groups for those who want an education they are used as social therapy. The idea of mainstreaming and putting slower students in a classroom to help the above average students gain compassion is a wonderful method of slowing down the class to the point of having above average students want to drop out because of boredom. Knowing the students will not drop out bennefits the education establishment as the above avererage students, who went to sleep, will need to take remedial courses and have to spend more money at a later date to get the education that was neglected.

WHERE IS ACCOUNTABILITY?
THE NEA AND OTHER LIBERAL TEACHERS UNIONS HAVE BEEN EDUCATING(?)OUR CHILDREN FOR +/- 60 YEARS YET ALL THEY HAVE TO SHOW FOR IT IS THE EVER INCREASING NUMBER OF UNEDUCATED KIDS THEY TURN OUT EACH YEAR. THE EXCUSE IS ALWAYS WE NEED MORE MONEY, YET DESPITE THE ADDED BILLIONS POURED INTO EDUCATION EACH YEAR NOTHING CHANGES. WHERE DOES "ACCOUNTABILITY" COME IN. I'LL WAGER THAT THE HIHG SCHOOL EDUCATION I OBTAINED MORE THAN 57 YEARS AGO IS supperior TO 90% OF THE PEOPLE POSING AS TEACHERS TODAY.

Ashamed of the NEA
How did the NEA become so radical (dare I say socialist and "Big Brother", too)? I watched their July meetings on C-Span for as long as I could tolerate (I felt queasy after listening to their president's empty rhetoric). The NEA is totally out of touch with the teachers in my state, and they are out of touch with me (I have taught for twenty-five years). I disagree with practically everything in their "social" agenda. The leadership of NEA think they should replace the parent--they actually think they should have complete control over a child's thinking: These radical teachers want to indoctrinate your five-year-old children on homosexual behavior. Parents, read the platform of the NEA and get ready to be shocked! They don't want to just teach the three R's--they want your child's soul. In my state you cannot belong to your local education association unless you also join the Tennessee Education Association (also radical), and NEA. The only reason most teachers join NEA is because they are afraid of lawsuits. Ironically, NEA takes our $500 dues and uses them to elect socialist democarats (even though most Tennessee teachers are conservatives).

Gandalf
If you disagree with my comment - state it.

Of course, families wish to indoctrinate their children.
And private schools do too.
There is nothing wrong with that as far as I can tell.

If you look up the word indoctrinate you will see that it not need
the negative connotations associated with it.

Factories would not be a word I would use - that is why I put
quotations around it.

Not being able to debate does not speak well of you.
I stand by what I wrote.

Edna
Edna, the board of education is a way for the parent to win - if you
and parents like you have good ideas and can make the majority
of the board agree then that would become policy (with some
obvious caveats). Since you admit we need places other than
home schools - having each "parent prevail" does not make good
sense in a school or class situation - my child can leave class when
ever he wants. Teach math this way to my kid while you teach the
rest of the class another way - this is impractical.
And to your point that states or schools should lose $ for each
child that gets schooled elsewhere - they do! Federal funds would
not be allocated for a student who is not there.

You do have a point on SB 777 but that is for one state and one state
only and will be overturned by the legislature.



Joy, Robin, et al.
It was momentarily heartening to read that the NEA doesn't represent the majority of its members, but skepticism set in. If your posts are accurate -- I hope they are -- I must wonder why so broad a gulf exists between the bigwigs and the rank-and-file. Why do 3.2 million ostensibly well-educated, well-connected teachers and administrators tolerate being led and bled by a small claque of extremists? Are the members unable to take control of their own organization? Can they not start a new organization more in line with their ideas and ideals? Do they really disagree with the kooks in charge? Or do they just not care?

The Gulf
Yes, the gulf does exist. I have pondered why the delegates of the Tennessee Education Association and the delegates of the NEA are so radical. I think most of these people run for office unopposed. I never vote for delegates to the TEA or NEA conventions (I've taught for over 25 years) because I don't know any of them. The radical groups know this--evidently they handpick people to be delegates who buy into their "social" agendas. It's very organized. Most of us teachers are busy making a living (many of us work other jobs during the summer). Who has time or the money to go to a convention (where I'm sure opposing viewpoints are not welcome)? A new teachers' union or representative group would be WONDERFUL.

Paleocon
See my 11:29 pm post!

Most of these resolutions are not binding - just a statement of
beliefs - most members would not know the NEA's stance on any
of this or care because most have no bearing on their teaching.
What does have a bearing on teacher's lives - the local or state
contract and making sure it is adhered to - this is the important
work of the union.

I did not understand Joy's post because many of the best teachers
are strong union advocates - since union representation helps you
speak out at your school and to your administration in a more
frank way than no representation probably would let you.

When it comes down to it, having a union beats not having a union
for most members, imo.



Having a Union
My $500 NEA "fees" that I "give" each year: it's only in case of a lawsuit (which my local school system is supposed to protect me from anyway). When the NEA recruits new teachers, the main selling point is "We will supply a lawyer if you're sued." New teachers do not know that their employer is "required" to supply a lawyer if a parent sues. Fear is used to recruit.

Now that you mention it
I wasn't going to bring up the benefits of a teachers' union, for it was outside Mrs. Schlafly's topic. But now that it's come up, I must wonder further how useful the NEA really is.

The most powerful tool in a union's kit is the strike. If that's not an option, then the NEA isn't really a union. It's a parasitic entity that offers little besides a newsletter; group insurance rates; an apparently endless supply of nonbinding resolutions that many members, perhaps most, find abhorrent; and help for political candidates that many, perhaps most, don't endorse.

Strikes against the public good are incendiary acts, however, and I have yet to see much good come of them. (One exception: Reagan's salutary dismissal of the striking PATCO air-traffic controllers.) Teachers' strikes tend to be especially unpleasant, in part because children suffer disproportionately.

So again, why do apparently educated people endure the NEA? Sherry's answer, I fear, is close to the mark: "Most of us teachers are busy making a living."

So are most of the rest of us.

Parental Warning
Mrs. Schlafly’s column needs to be a parental warning to any conservative parent who sends their children to a public school. Parents that choose to need to be fully engaged in what is being taught. Just because you live in a Red State don’t assume your children are getting conservative views. My experience with my children is that we received more multicultural liberal indoctrination in Texas Public Schools than in New York Public Schools. The curriculum is locally driven in many subjects. Universally speaking if you expect your children to receive any moral or values based education you better be getting it at home or in your place of worship.

Sherry and Paleocon
The big thing is a union can negotiate a contract on its members
behalf.

Any one who I ever knew who negotiated says the local districts
would like to give teachers nothing - I believe that is just what
most teachers would get if they negotiated their contracts
individually.

The NEA is made up mainly of teachers - this includes those who
attend the convention. If Sherry is a member and would like to
attend she should ask her local what she needs to do to attend.
My local (not NEA) pays for teachers to attend (flight, room, per
diems, etc.) the national - this was the first year when we sent the
maximum amount to the conference - thats after 30 years!

Now to the lawyers - as far as I know - with the NEA they will give
you lawyers if you think you're in the right. Otherwise, they will
pay you back up to $100,000 IF YOU WIN your case - and you can
get whatever lawyer you want. The district having to give you a
lawyer is news to me and might only apply to TN and like minded
states - I have never heard of it. In MA it would be the district's
choice.

Lepanto
Each state and district differs.
Most states have either suggested or required curriculums of what
you should or need to teach but do not tell a district or a teacher
how to teach it.

NY at the high school level (even below) is very strict because of
its Regents exams. TX, of course, has its TEA (I think) tests that
would control much of the scope of a course if not the day to day
teaching.

As the book, We Are All Multiculturalists Now and Diane Ravitch's
The Language Police show all sides are in the debate about what
goes into the curriculum - generally making it bland as not to offend
cons or libs in text or curriculum

oops correction to 2:50 pm post
the part on lawyers should read
they will give you lawyers if THEY think you're in the right.

reading comprehension
Edna & Susan, Gandalf in reply #21 was responding to everyonesfacts' reply #32. Gandalf did not make the statement that started his reply (there are quotes around it), everyonesfacts did. Gandalf did not call Mrs. Schafly a maroon.
If you are only going to pick and choose which comments to read, then I suggest that you not comment yourself, for you only look stupid

about homeschooling
The NEA opposes homeschooling because it makes the poor results of public schools, at GREAT taxpayer expense, so glaring. The typical homeschooler makes in the 85th percentile on those standardized tests where the scores have generally eroded since the 60's. We spend $8-10k per capita on public schooling for too often underwhelming results... and there is LITTLE correlation between the magnitude of spending and measured results.

Notwithstanding fatuous suggestions that homeschoolers will lack social skills, quite the contrary, they actually excel in team player interpersonal relations, and tend toward leadership positions when they go to college or segue to "regular school." Actually, homeschoolers participate in many group activities among themselves and others.

The NEA likes to challenge the qualifications of homeschool parent teachers, but the relative results make that challenge silly and presumptuous prima facie. Parents teaching their children, by definition, have exemplary dedication to their welfare.

lodestar
Great post! It's hard to argue with success.

about unions generally
There is only one area where unions have not waned in influence in recent years-- unions of those working for government who can force the taxpayer to eat their increased costs. Consider teachers, postal workers, and bureaucrats... are you impressed with the service you receive from ANY of these "public servants?"

Postal worker clerks make exactly twice what their counterparts do working for the competing private companies... but ask yourself this-- if it is REALLY important to get it there on time, would YOU rely on the U.S. postal service?!

Teachers whine and bray perpetually about being "underpaid professionals." Yet if you look at the average teacher salary, and especially if you factor in the true qualifications, generous benefits, time off, and job security versus other options, teaching starts to look pretty darned attractive!

And what of this tripe about you cannot truly test a teacher with written competency tests... how then can THEY presume to test your child's competency? And WHY should someone who purports to teach students in H.S. not have to pass 8th grade equivalency tests with flying colors?

First Ammendment
The NEA should be given tax free-status as a religion. It qualifies, since it has its own creation myth (evolution), moral code, and eschatology (global warming). Then they should be banned from teaching their ideas in the classroom, as it violates the First Amendment.

teacher pay and homeschooling
although I think discussing teacher pay is off topic - I would urge
all readers to read the excellent report created by the College
Board Teachers and the Uncertain American Future where they
call for a dramatic raise in teachers pay in exchange for easier ways
of firing teachers. commentary and a link to the report here:

http://www.ednews.org/community/showthread.php?t=38

as to homeschooling I am a strong supporter of it.
But it is definitely (well usually unless the parent would make less
in a year than the per student cost) more expensive than public
schooling since one parent must forfeit all or most of his pay.

about unions in general
just because unions have waned does not mean workers wanted
them to - statistics prove otherwise.

Coming from someone who worked in shipping I can say if you
need something to get there the US Post Office will get it there.
How many times have you shipped something to the correct address
with the correct postage that it did not get there?
If you need something overnight use a different service.
The big 3 - Airborne (DHL), FedEx, and UPS all combined for a year ship about one day's worth of packages in the USPS. So not easily
comparable.

Now the teachers unions both suppport teacher testing to enter the
field as far as I know. They do not support testing teachers who
have already earned / been given their licenses. This is similar to
most unions and all professions in general to raise what is required
to enter the field. So most new teachers in most states (I think 3 do
not have entrance tests and just require the appropriate degree)
have entrance tests which the unions fully support as far as I know.

reply to e-facts
Teacher compensation MUST be part of any discussion about teacher union agendas, partly because teachers (with the union mentality group think) won't stop talking about it.

As for paying teachers more in exchange for better ability to fire them, why should THEY be different in this regard from ANY worker? As it stands, teachers by themselves already average what the average household earns from all sources. I now teach at the college level as a second career following banking... I can say with TOTAL confidence that "bankers hours" were FAR more demanding all-in. They could fire me at a bank on a whim-- no reason. Big mergers often sever the most capable (higher paid).

As for the cost of homeschooling to those respective families, it CAN mean a foregone income, but certainly does not always. We were a 2-MBA career couple for a time... we found that Mom's true costs (wardrobe, taxes, lunches, childcare, car expense, commuting) for that second career were quite high. We saved MORE after I took a relocation promotion and she "retired" to be a full-time mom and teacher.

One thing is certain-- homeschooling is a heck of a bargain to society given the results. Our oldest daughter just graduated PBK from UGA [SAT average (old measure) now 1,250] and #2 daughter is a President's Scholar at the top/most competitive state school in God's Country, Ga. Tech. Geaux Jackets! (we lived in da' bayou for a while)

unions killed the golden goose
re:
"about unions in general
just because unions have waned does not mean workers wanted
them to - statistics prove otherwise."

*********************************************

I teach business/econ in community college now following that banking career where I was very familiar with unions vis-a-vis employers. Unions pretty much bankrupted many industries to the point where they began to be voted down when trying to organize. What began to respond to righteous grievances devolved into organized greed and loss of perspective.

The average UAW worker makes about $150k all-in; s/he would make a small fraction w/o the union based on education/skill set. There is $1,600 of cost for RETIRED worker benefits in the cost of every Ford. Senior pilots make over $200k... and whine about it-- all of that responsibility for life, though there are 5 MILLION commercial flights around the world between accident deaths-- far safer than the cab ride to the airport.

Unions now grow in influence ONLY where competition cannot keep them honest/in check-- among those working for government. Unions now account for 9% of workers versus 33% before they broke big steel, etc.

"Closed Shop"
In too many states, teachers are forced to be part of the union whether they like it or not. The only alternative is to pay dues to a union-approved charity and that only after jumping through a number of hoops.

I am fortunate enough to live in a state which does not force me into union membership...and I am not a member. When we wonder about the disconnect between the union and the actual teachers, the explanation is that most teachers were forced into the union and really don't pay attention to it.

More states should be like mine and allow the teacher (and other workers) freedom of association. Some of my colleagues want to associate with the union, and some do not. Isn't that best?

reply to ls
why are they different? Fundamentally, they aren't. Because any
worker could have a union that has put in language that states that
they cannot be fired without cause after x many years. But most
workers don't and most public school teachers do.

Teaching at college does not compare to teaching k-12 in work
conditions. It is still on the continuum of instruction, though.
Teaching (k-12) has been found to be one of the most stressful
jobs in the world - yes world.
http://www.cdc.gov/ulcer/myth.htm
http://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/0-9/4health/stres s/saw_teachers.html
I could go on.

as to homeschooling one of my cliches is you have to home school
your child whether you keep them home or not. That is the big
thing - schools cannot do what a parent can neither are they good
at undoing what a parent does or doesn't do.
I cannot say with certainty if our society would benefit from universal
homeschooling. In places where it has to exist education is
terrible.
Congratulations to you and your daughter.


gotta go for now, but a couple of things
I do not support closed shop states - very few are.

And one should compare right to work states with collective
bargaining states and then compare student outcomes in public
schools.
Only VA - shows up in the top 10 from Right to Work states.


LS, if you teach economics that is a very simplistic.
There is a great Al Shanker commentary where he states that
no one blames the unions for what is happening to the American
auto industry - this was from the 1980s (sorry don't have it handy)
But one cause is weak economics.

Also, unions are influential to industries and workers without unions.
As my cousin who teaches in parochial school says thank you for
getting a raise now we'll get one. Same with car plants, FedEx, etc.,
etc.

NEA Policies out of step with teachers
This is exactly why I don't belong to the NEA or my own State and County Unions. They're clearly out of step with mainstream America and that includes teachers like myself. I have found union supporters to be self-serving, especially those who draw a salary from the members.

If you want a clear view of where most of us stand in education, look at the policies of the IRA (International Reading Association), ASCD (Association of Curriculum and Development), and countless other PROFESSIONAL educational associations like NCTM, NSTA, or NCTE. These are the organizations I look to for guidance and support. The NEA hardcore supporters are flakes!

Becky
Hallelujah!

reply to e-facts
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/09/toyota-worried-about-lab or-costs-in-u-s/
http://www.gerpisa.univ-evry.fr/rencontre/11.rencontre/pape rs/Mercer.pdf

You suggest simplicity in my economic analysis, yet want to cite a study from 20+ years ago?!

My overall point in the limited space here is that you cannot pay someone 3x what s/he could command otherwise based on skill set/education and not botch up the economics. Chevy's cost 5x what they did 30 years ago (greater than inflation multiple), and most of that is labor-related DESPITE a lot of automation over that time. The labor cost component per employee has gone up considerably over time in real $.

re:
"Also, unions are influential to industries and workers without unions."

Yes, but is that necessarily a good thing... Toyota raises its prices on cars made here because the traditional American makes are so expensive due to union-driven labor costs... it still pays considerably less for labor, but they line up for those jobs.

Are major auto companies also misguided in other ways (pushing gas hogs, avoiding shifts to electric cars where planned obsolescence profit will be less)? You bet-- they are bloated with government-style, ponderous management bureaucracy which sometimes comes with bigness and complacency.

who says?!
re:
"Teaching (k-12) has been found to be one of the most stressful
jobs in the world - yes world."

The phenomenon of "group think" relates in part to how members of a particular work group talk among themselves and begin to imagine how aggrieved they are. I remember an Eastern Airlines pilot fussing to us at a civic club meeting about how underpaid they were.

When I asked him why he thought so, he replied-- "Have you seen what the average doctor makes?!" Not wanting to be confrontational, I dropped the subject, but might have otherwise retorted, "Where is the relevance in that?!" [Airline pilots are typically trained in the military while being compensated, and typically have only a bachelor's degree.] Not long thereafter, Eastern went under-- a victim then partly of bloated labor costs.

I never see teachers discussing their trade without whining about needing to be paid more, yet they were home hours before I got home from a bank, and enjoyed awfully nice summers and Xmas breaks... I would have taken a BIG pay cut for those... and job security is nonexistent in most private sector management jobs, despite the typical education and skill set requirements.

NEA...
The gates of hell are prevailing...

Becky...
great post! You are so right! My dad, my brother and I were all forced to be members of the NEA when I was teaching. It did nothing for us and we didn't have the time amidst raising families and just living our lives to attend conventions. I found their liberal views to be at odds with my positions and very much wanted to opt out of membership. Unfortunately, at the time, that was not an option. I think the "big wigs" in unions often are out of touch with their members. If that isn't true, why are over 40 white men, many of whom are blue-collar union workers, polling overwhelmingingly for McCain when their union is putting huge money into Obama's campaign?

To everyonesfacts (re post 11:57)...
I am not only a child of a teacher, but a sibling of a teacher and a former teacher myself. As stated in my 6:55 post, I am now and have always been at odds with the positions the NEA advocates. As a teacher, I was also co-workers with many teachers who supported the NEA avidly and many who felt like I did. Like it or not, our personal beliefs do make their way into the classroom, even in subtle ways. I found my co-workers with extreme liberal viewpoints often emphasized areas of the curriculum (i.e., evolution) to a point that it became the rule rather than an idea. That is, of course, just one example. I think the powerful NEA lobby is also directly responsible for more of far left ideals making their way into our curriculum. And don't kid yourself that the NEA has no impact on teacher education in our universities. I never encountered more uber-liberalism than I did when I was in college, and that has been a few years now.

Schlafly at her best....
On a topic she knows about.


Time to Abort the NEA
It is time to dissolve the Dept. of Education and any federal ties that are associated with its mission (i.e., NEA). Their adjendas are "in your face" repulsive. It makes me puke just reading Shafly's article let alone thinking about the indoctrination of the impressionable minds. Who do they thing they are?

Teachers vs NEA ideology
Please keep in mind that most public school teachers are dedicated teachers who have strong traditional family values and do not agree with most of the NEA statements or 'official' policies.
Unfortunately the NEA is a well-funded, well-organized group that has become an influential voice in public education. It is no secret that the NEA contribute vast sums of money to support liberal politicians, judges and special interest advocacy groups. However, it is the union leaders who control NEA funds, not the individual teacher members. To judge or evaluate individual teachers based on the 'special interest' agenda of the NEA or other teachers' unions is unfair.

If you want to see the NEA in action...
Just look at the Detroit Public Schools. Their graduation rate is LESS than 33%. They blame that on the lack of money which is laughable.
The only way to make the public schools accountable is to have the property tax dollars follow the student--not the school district. This would also include homeschoolers who would see a drastic reduction in their property taxes. Better yet, eliminate teacher "certification" and open up the teacher ranks to experts in various fields. Bring back phonics and arithmetic. We could do no worse (and probably a lot better) than with the system as it now exists.

Alternatives to NEA Robots
I belong to an organization dedicated to education. Professional Educators of Tennessee (PET) is an organization that focuses on education issues only. We do not fund, donate, or endorse political candidates. We do not think that personal behavior outside the school is anything that is under the control of the state. We do not set an agenda that promotes non-academic goals.

In other words, we are professionals whose concern is educating students to be freedom loving, productive citizens. The NEA is about mind control. Indoctrinating people into a philosophy that is anti-freedom and anti-capitalist has been their goal for years. What the Marxists could not win through government, they will attempt to win through indoctrination of our youth.

If you are a teacher sick to death of the harrassment for "dues" for your local NEA organ, I urge you to seek an alternative. They are out there waiting for YOU to get SICK and TIRED of being SICK and TIRED.

Reply to Everyonesfacts...
The Jayhawks' comment that you referenced was, in your opinion at least, a weak attempt at satire.

ladies
Becky, I find the NEA much in step with ASCD the other groups are
subject specific so the NEA generally would not have a strong or
a specific conflict with any of them. They are for specialists. Not
really sure how it relates the NEA does not try to do what the IRA
does and the IRA does not try to do what the NEA does.

Robin, I can do the teacher game too - I would note about 9
great grandmother (this ones been brought into question) grandmother, mother, 3 aunts, an uncle, 2 brothers, my wife, and
me.
Evolution is a scientific theory - it is a bad example. Not a theory
as an idea as you write. But something with evidence to prove it.
And its main rival, Creationism, has no evidence that proves it.
Did you have history teachers who emphasized the Holocaust
actually happened?

Most college professors are not part of the NEA.

And do you disagree with all their positions. The big 3 would be
better working conditions, better benefits, and better pay. That
is where most of their money and time is spent not that reading
TH articles would ever tell you that.

Unions support candidates that best support their members as it
relates to the union.
Now a union member has other things to consider - morals, family,
education, taxes that might not agree with their union's politics.
That people often don't vote their wallet is part of what the book
Thomas Frank's _What's the Matter with Kansas?_

Nana, no it is individual teachers who make up the majority of
delegates at the convention and can vote anyway they please (the
AFT is not always like this sometimes you would have to vote as
your local wanted on pre-selected items), not uniserve reps or union
officials. If you have proof otherwise please share. Again if you
don't like it and you are an NEA member you can attend the
convention and propose a resolution. See my 1st post.

jayhawk
point noted - no I completely missed the satire and it was pretty
good.

BUT
You'll forgive me - since the people using storm troopers, Nazi
references, predicting hell on earth are not using satire or are they.


They aren't.

Reply to goatlockerloungelizard
Hare Mai from the Land of the Long White Cloud! I'm not concerned with education in merica. Ya'll get just what you pay for... and, in this case, what is deserved as well. But the Jayhawk wishes you well... MaMa Jayhawk taught high school english from 1964 till 2005. The Jayhawk spent 14 years as an education specialist himself. In my experience, while most "rank & file" educators are union members, they are not politically active in the nea. They join (it was never closed shop where I worked) for salary & benefit negotiations and LAWSUIT protection. By the way, when MaMa Jayhawk first started teaching back in '64, she received 60% of the salary that was granted to the another, male, first year teacher. She was told by administrators that all male faculty were payed more, due to "breadwinner" status. Ironic, cause MaMa Jayhawk WAS said breadwinner, with PaPa Jayhawk being deceased and all. Salary stayed that way until, drum-roll please, the union got involved. Unions serve a necessary purpose. They aren't perfect, but without them, the common worker is going to get shafted.

Reply to everyonesfacts...
No apologies required, but thank you for the kindness... have enjoyed reading your thoughtful, intelligent post on this subject matter as well! Some of the posters here at TH do seem kind of crazy to this Bird... but I do have great respect for the format itself. The Jayhawk is fascinated by right-wing merica. I love to peruse RW web-sites. Malkin and Little Green Footballs are 2 of my favorites. But unless you must agree with their overall mindset, or they don't allow commentary. What must they be scared of? Peace to you and yours, Hare Mai!

the good unions do
some thoughtful articles on the issue and below is the Shanker
article I mentioned - from 1996, but talks about the car industry
in the 1970s

Read AFT mag on the issue:
http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/issues/wi nter06-07/index.htm

Now Diane Ravitch's article in the same issue:
http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/issues/wi nter06-07/includes/ravitch.htm

Just in case you are ignorant of who Ravitch is,
she is the foremost expert on high school education
history:
http://www.dianeravitch.com/

Al Shanker the leader of the AFT for several years
on blaming unions, still timely:
http://www.letsgetitright.org/blog/2007/03/a_shanker_classi c.html

Since 1993…
I have been studying the privileged, parasite class, the teachers. Little naïve me was complaining to a neighbor about how property taxes were rising so fast here in a town in the public worker’s magic kingdom of NJ. He started telling me about teacher’s salaries. I didn’t believe the numbers he talked about so I went down to the local board of non-education. I found that, again in 1993, one third of the ‘educators” were ripping off $64,000 per year with another large percentage right behind them. Naturally the number is now over $100K per year for the world’s best part time job. Do the math folks, that’s $100+ per hour based on their part time status PLUS a benefit and pension package that would make many mid level executives of large companies take notice. That’s why I pay $8900.00 taxes on a modest three bedroom split and I expect a hefty increase next month. I have tangled butts with many of them and they are adamant, greedy, ungrateful, militant virtual thugs. With a five hour day and sixteen weeks off every year they try to tell me that they have a hard job. I tell them to tell that B.S. to the soccer moms (that they and/or they predecessors educated) with fall temperature IQs. Yes Virginia, teaching is the hardest job in the world except for every other job!

NEA America's Greatest Threat
Of the many threats to the future of this great nation, none is grater than the effect that the NEA has had, and continues to have, on the education of our children. Year after year we fall further behind the educational level of other nations; not just Western nations but so-called "developing" nations. Instead of educating our future leaders and wage-earners the NEA is focused on converting our children to their amoral values. Give them credit: they do that very well!

PHYLLIS: YOU HAVE A GAY SON!
Phyllis Schlafly, lobbying against reducing homophobia in schools when her son John is a gay man, and could be a victim of the anti-gay crimes and bias that the NEA is trying to reduce, seems like a mother willing to throw her own child under a bus for a political movement. Family values, indeed!

NEA and the negligence of GOP and Dems
I'm an NEA member. It serves a useful purpose to sponsor state affiliates that can bargain with local systems about pay and conditions. Unfortunately, it drifts into all kinds of extreme left postions that have little to do with the every day needs of kids. There is a learning deficit in US schools when it comes to the basics of science, math, English and most of all civics as we used to know it. NEA would divert resources from the basics and the teaching of American history and culture as it really was, to a scrubbed version of history and English that makes mediocre literature acceptable because of authors from minority groups who don't match up to our greatest writers in English. History now is taught totally as the history of the civil rights movement. There is no place for patriotism or pride in the accomplishments of the military in the schools. While the NEA plays a negative role when it strays from its economic function as a bargaining agent for teachers, and focuses on lobbying and electing liberal Demcorats, it is primiarily the fault of local school boards, parents and state education agencies that PC education, promotion of socialist learning theories like group learning and constructivism, and anti-American ideology all flourish in our schools. Republican governors and education commissioners are just as guilty as Democrats in this utter destruction of education. We will be left in the dust by China and India which do not bother with such silly nonsense, but stick to teaching hard rigorous courses and turning out well educated linguists, doctors and engineers. We will have to import all our professionals from abroad, except for lawyers and community organizers. Our brightest kids are encouraged to become Barack Obamas, not science researchers, engineers, or historians of actual US or English History. I could go on but I'm getting depressed!

buster buster
buster, your logic is exceeded only by your complete lack of common sense...and perhaps multi-hued bone diamonds ...Just because MY car may have a flat tire doesn't necessarily mean I have to parade for everyone to have a flat tire ... I have high blood pressure but I don't think its necessarily a good idea for EVERYONE ... Gays are not lobbying for reducing homophobia in schools ... You are lobbying for me to - not just tolerate - but accept your CHOICE as normal ... Well no matter what you do, I will always consider homosexuality to be other than normal ... Don't hate you ... Disagreeing with you need not be the same as wishing you harm... I don't...You have no idea as to what kind of sexuality is involved in my private life - and I don't WANT to know yours ... But you continue to force it upon everyone ...Thats what I don't like and won't ever agree with ...One of the tests of development that we used to do with kids was the "round peg in a square hole" test ... kids were tested for "normal" development by putting the proper sized/shaped wooden/plastic pieces in the proper sized/shaped opening ... Just the configuration of men and women - plus the making babies thing - tells us what is normal ... The NEA is telling me that a round peg in the square orrifice is "normal" ... Has nothing to do with anti-gay bias...Humbug...

Liberal Fascism
I do think the two party system as we have it is next to useless if we care about a stable culture. The Dems promote mind control and the Republicans dawdle as this fascism gains increasing power. I find it irritating beyond belief that as a college instructor I'm now forced to be a member of the NEA. I think I will regularly ask for money back from my dues that the NEA uses to sponsor their political agenda. We will see if my requests are honored.

Carson

Phyliss's gay son
Well tj, we can only ask Mrs. Schlafly if she considers her gay son John a flawed car with a "flat tire", but I have a feeling even she would object to this image and you calling her son abnormal. Does John think he is abnormal? How do you think gay son John and mom Phyliss would respond to your describing her eldest as a car with a flat tire.
And when you want to make a group of people invisible, that is not just disagreement, THAT IS HATE!

NEA support for democrats
The NEA throws its PAC money behind democrats who will support the NEA's liberal culture revolution--a planned series of curriculums, beginning with kindergarten, that emphasize global warming, alternative sexual preferences, victimology, abortion on demand, etc. They have been very successful. Practically every democrat in state governments and in Washington, DC, spout exactly the same rhetoric as that found in the NEA's platform. I remember a time when democrats' moral values mirrored those of republicans. Their main differences were on government size, etc. But now, most democrat leaders have adopted the NEA's radical agenda. Yes, the NEA "flakes"have been very successful--they control the Democratic Party.

correction
Sorry-the verb should be "spouts"

reply to e-facts
I tried your Aft links but got this caveat:

Oops !!

The page you are looking for cannot be found.

Our site has been redesigned and restructured. The page might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

****************************************
As an observation, one would expect the AFT-- Amer. Fed. of Teachers (AFL-CIO) to make a good case based on group think for the positive role of unions, but many posting here do not see the constructive effects on teaching and public education.

A follow-up about union driven labor costs in the auto industry:

http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/06/cx_dl_1006feat.html

excerpt:
"High labor costs contribute to Detroit's struggle with profitability as well. The average American factory worker makes about $47 an hour..."

"During the past few years U.S. car companies successfully renegotiated many labor contracts and reduced their workforce, bringing operating costs closer to that of their Japanese and other competitors..."

redo of links
diane ravitch:
http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/issues/wi nter06-07/includes/ravitch.htm

how a union improved academic standards:
http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/issues/wi nter06-07/includes/martel.htm

other articles down right hand side to click on.

I don't disagree with the cost of labor has hurt the auto industry
I know it has - but the Americans were also outspending the
Japanese and Germans by multiples in R&D and not making a
better car.

If you blame the union for Detroit do you praise them for Scarsdale,
NY, Wellesley, MA, etc., etc.? This is the old quaterback blame /
praise syndrome. No one thinks urban school districts are doing
well - to place all the blame on the unions is erroneous.

fairnessman
funny name.

Let's see you ask teachers about their job - they tell you it's hard - you don't believe them - even though the ones who would know are
them not you and your statistics. Now since you live in an area
that is 90%+ foreign language speakers at least at Wal-Mart -
obviously their job is not as easy as you would think.

(google fairnessman everyonesfacts to see the part of NJ fairness
man lives in)

And I assume teachers in the same neck of the woods have to pay
taxes too!?

everyones facts and homeschooling
everyones facts wrote:
"as to homeschooling one of my cliches is you have to home school
your child whether you keep them home or not."

Rearing a child does not automatically fall under the category "homeschooling." The term homeschooling should only be used in reference those actually homeschooling.

Homeschooling involves developing long and short term academic goals in keeping with an educational philosophy, evaluating educational methods and materials and then teaching, reviewing, explaining, and evaluating on a daily basis.

Ineffective methods and materials must be modified and/or replaced as needed for each individual child in each area of study all while maintaining a household and nurturing and disciplining preschoolers.


Anyone not engaged in these activities. Those cyber school homework supervising parents and parents sending their children to institutions are not doing anything resembling homeschooling.

If you are referring to the transfer of values, the vast majority of Americans are not actively doing this. A shocking number expect this to be done by religious institutions a day or two per week or they simply allow the media and peers to fill this gaping void. Even those who are conscientiously doing so are not necessarily homeschooling.

Since the transfer of values is only a part of a child's education/schooling it cannot be equated to the full load a homeschooling parent has providing a complete education which equals academics, relationships, and life skills.

reply to e-facts
re:
"No one thinks urban school districts are doing
well - to place all the blame on the unions is erroneous."

Various teachers have posted here about the liberal curriculum agenda of the teachers unions, and others have noted how they defend job security irrespective of competence... the results are a res ipsa loquitur given declining trends in the same venues.

My opinion about the systemic failure of urban schools is not PC, but would explain why the schools where we spend the most per capita (see Washington, D.C. area) often do the worst, and vice versa in rural schools in the midwest... students of innately low aptitude are simply never going to smoke the SAT's. You cannot make a silk purse...

everyone's facts- "savings"
When people talk about the savings provided by homeschooling, they are referring the savings enjoyed by the TAXPAYERS. Those not directly receiving services are not forced to pay the bills.

As to homeschoolers we pay twice (for our own teaching materials, extracurricular activities, household expenses, and transportation expenses.)Yes, we do give up additional income and benefits, but I must say it's a bargain.

I do think the average cost of homeschooling a child SHOULD include household costs and transportation costs and I don't think it is currently counted which is unfair and inaccurate.

This is in keeping with the idea that the child is the responsibility of the parents and not the State or society in general.

editing error
Oops! It should have read,

"...and transportation expenses in addition to taxes."

Educational goals compared
I am currently working on a class designed to make parents aware of the different educational methods and goals found in all forms of education. Here's the bird's eye view of the goals section in a nutshell:

1. Economic Prosperity Education

Economic development, security, and prosperity that benefit society are the main focus. Skills and knowledge that result in economic prosperity are primarily taught.

2. Ideal Man Education

In this view, there is a predetermined set of values and resulting behaviors that are most important. Throughout the child’s education, the teacher(s) focus on molding the child to that predetermined form. Worldviews and social engineering are valued above all else. These values can come from either end of the ideological spectrum.

3. Identity Driven Education

In this view, God (or nature to the secularists) creates a completed person at birth. Together, the teacher and child identify and refine at least a few of the child’s inborn talents, interests and passions with increasing energy and a set of related knowledge, skills, values over the years to prepare the child for his/her destiny or life path.

4. Core Knowledge Education

This view places a predetermined set of facts and academic skills to be mastered as its main goal.

One of the reasons parents are frustrated about education is because the goal(s) of the institution their child attend or curriculum their child uses are at odds with parental goals.

Goals often dictate method, and that too can create conflict for a parent.



Everyonesfacts =wrongfacts
Anyone who “works” five hours per day, 36 weeks per has an EASY job. Remember Mr. & Mrs. taxpayer/sucker, a teacher has more time off by age 30 than you do for your entire work life into your 60’s. Also remember, few teachers “work” into their 60’s because of those big fat pensions you provide for them at an early age..

Yes, little English is spoken here in the northern parts of the public “worker’s” magic kingdom of NJ. Teachers and thug unions love this. Hundrens of thousands of illegals that don’t speak English means more jobs for more parasite teachers because of there mere presence and because they can’t speak English. Again, a win-win for the teachers, enemies of parents/taxpayers and children.

I love the B.S. about teachers paying taxes too. Again, let’s do the math. Yes, when a $10K property tax goes up 5% to $10,500 this usually means another nice 4,5,6 or 7 % raise for a $80K-$110K teacher. Hell, if I were a teacher I would want property taxes to go up every week! Again, teaching is the world’s easiest and highest paying part time job for those at the low end of the academic achievement scale and the hardest job in the world, except for all the others.

more on homeschooling
the homeschooling I would be talking about for parents of kids
going to school outside home is making sure their child is
understanding and mastering the curriculum. 185 days more or less
the child is not going to be in school - so the parents have a large
impact.

Homeschooling is not as tightly defined by those who homeschool
as Homeschool Mom would allow. She might not agree with parents
who claim to be homeschooling using an online curriculum but
those parents most certainly would.

I'm not sure what the "savings" issue is about. If you want to
homeschool instead of send to public or private school more power
to you. If it is an argument for public funds to be given or
"refunded" I would patently reject it just as I would reject people
getting money who did not use roads getting money back for not
using highways, etc.

I'm also not sure what you're paying twice for? Unless your saying
you paid taxes for schools and now you are choosing to not use it.
See roads argument above. This could be used for all public
projects - parks, golf courses, libraries, etc.

fman
hours and weeks is one metric.
It is not teachers who create the schedule for the year but the
state government and in most cases the local school district.

I guess you would like children to attend 50 weeks a year.
I am not for that, but if you have read the report Teachers and the
Uncertain American Future as I recommended you would see a
case for increasing the length of the school year. So I am not
opposed to it. In the rare cases where schools have tried year
round schedule - almost all families have opted out of summer
school.

Of course teachers are parents and taxpayers too. So are teachers
working against themselves?

I disagree with the belief that it is an easy job - if it was so easy
why would roughly 50% of new teachers leave in the first 5 years.
To look for something harder?
Doesn't make sense to me.
Does it to you?

e-factsnot
Since I don’t see all of your posts please let me/us know if you are a teacher, relative of one, or just a shill and lackey for the teachers and their Commie, thug union?

You try to tell me teachers are parents and taxpayers too. Perhaps you didn’t understand part of my last post – the part about teachers should wish for a property tax increase every week.

Fifty percent of teachers quit within five years? Let me take a wild guess as to where that fairy tale came from. Could it be the union shoveling more B.S. at the low IQ soccer parents so they support even more goodies for the over pampered, overpaid, over perked, over pensioned, under worked teachers?

Speaking of under worked, in addition to drastically reducing the aforementioned list of teacher goodies, I would have them working eight hours, 47 weeks like people with REAL jobs. What would they do during the FULL HALF YEAR they don’t work now? Everything from tutor and watch kids in the schools until the parents with real jobs can pick them up, to, God forbid, do maintenance on the schools. But then again, how dare I expect them to really earn their money.


homeschooler defintions
"the homeschooling I would be talking about for parents of kids
going to school outside home is making sure their child is
understanding and mastering the curriculum. 185 days more or less
the child is not going to be in school - so the parents have a large
impact."

My point was that that is not what homeschooling is. Homeschooling is about parents taking complete responsibility for a child's education and divorcing the State from a child's education. It's not about location. That's why for the last 30 years homeschooling has been increasingly deregulated as the states remove themselves more and more from the lives of homeschooled children. It's an important philosophical issue to understand.

Again, my post detailed the stark differences between what a homeschooling parent does and what one who says, "Do your homework" and "Is your homework done?" does everyday. If a parent does not have the right to change curriculum, methods, and schedules, and the parent is not actually doing the teaching of each concept in core subjects, they are simply supervising someone else's agenda and priorities no matter what they want to call it.

I have never said that is bad. I have said it is different, and parents should not deceive themselves into thinking they have more influence or responsibility for the day to day and hour by hour influence in a child's education than they really do.

Homeschoolers have spent countless hours in courts and some even in jails to have the right to control the education of their children without taking taxpayer funds and government regulation and they are a little annoyed when other people using the term homeschooler are in bed with the government by choice not by unfortunate act of legislation.

tax credits to homeschoolers
I adamantly oppose anything other than tax cuts across the board to all citizens so they can pay for the education of their own children or do whatever they see fit with that money.

I am part of a homeschool lobby group in my state that FIGHTS legislation returning tax dollars to homeschoolers because it means having government strings attached, and it's better to be free and poor than rich and under the thumb of an over reaching government.

My point was that homeschooling saves the taxpayers money. It does not save parents money. It's a distinction that matters and I think should be pretty easily understood. Not everyone accepts the idea that it is the job of government/taxpayers to educate children.

I won't even tax the tax deduction for our nonprofit homeschool PE group to avoid even the appearance that a taxpayer is funding a single cent of my daughters' education. I want clear lines drawn. I won't use public school facilities or extracurricular activities even though I paid for them through taxes. I want the State out of the education of my children.

Homeschool Mom AZ
When the TH gadfly Random Robert, a/k/a "Wobbie," who uses myriad screen names/tag lines here challenges your point, it has by definition been validated as impressive cerebration! ;~)
Congratulations! Most try not to reply to him, lest they feed the troll.

FairnessMan
re:
"Again, teaching is the world’s easiest and highest paying part time job for those at the low end of the academic achievement scale and the hardest job in the world, except for all the others."

Whoo-wee! Blunt, but largely inconvenient truth there!

"Education" degrees (pardon the oxymoron) are often a farce. Just a review of the course titles can demonstrate that-- Diversity in the Classroom... Blackboard Management. If you peruse the Graduate Record scores, education majors PALE next to English majors, History, etc. The teacher "certification" stuff is a mockery.

And I agree about the part-time element, especially vis-a-vis vacation and holiday time. I have a first-hand feel for that now as I teach a full slate of business courses at a community college as a second career-- MUCH less demanding than those so-called "bankers hours" were.

fman and lodestar
I think most people can assume that teaching is a hard job.
To be blunt - since we're being blunt without any silopsistic
evidence - I work harder than you. None of my friends in private
industry think they work harder than me maybe you're the
exception. I have no doubt that some workaholics work harder
than me, but that is rare.
My brothers have both taught and served in combat zones - any
guess which they thought was harder? Wait for it
wait for it . . . teaching (not more important or dangerous but
harder.)
I've done at least 10 other jobs before teaching none was as hard as
teaching. So we have at least 20 + jobs based on anecdotal
evidence that are not as hard as teaching.

Any reading of TH and the problems THers see that kids have and
how they act would lead any one with the powers of logic to guess
that getting 20-30 odd kids would be difficult work.

The near 50% of teacher leaving in five years is widely known and
easily searchable ( http://www.super-solutions.com/teachershortages.asp ). It is usually greater in urban districts.

I think I have said this before about you fman that you never let the
facts get in the way of your opinion.

lodestar, teaching college is not similar to k-12 teaching in work
conditions. Especially as a part time adjunct. If you were a full time
adjunct teaching say 10 or more classes we can talk, but college
teaching requires much less time in class, usually less correcting,
and other than the first year much less daily preparation.


fman and lodestar continued
The big question, especially to fairnessman, is what do you want
teachers to do? It is unclear what you would have teachers do -
hang out at school until it was 8 hours - fwiw most people at the
schools I have worked at do put in at least 8 hours at school and
you'll find this shocking many do work at home.

Here is a report comparing teachers work patterns to other
professions:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pd
and in brief:
http://www.theapple.com/careers/4039-when-where-and-how-muc h-do-us-teachers-work

Again, I recommend Teachers and the Uncertain American Future
for pay discrepancy for similarly educated professionals:
http://www.ednews.org/community/showthread.php?t=38

as to lodestar's earlier comment about stress it was hard to
understand who else to find out about stress than from the people
themselves and healthcare professionals as both links showed.
Teachers make the 2nd most decisions of any job - air traffic
controller is #1 - in the U.S. around 1200 a day. You'll notice
air traffic controller is usually always on the list as most stressful
job too.

on homeschooling
First, I do support parents doing "full" homeschooling for lack of a
better term.

And full homeschoolers should be involved in curriculum and other
things in the public schools as Robert suggests.

And Homeschool Mom has the right idea if you agree with getting
the state out of education - get 50% +1 of your legislature (or more
if it's something that needs to be amended) and your governor to
agree with your beliefs and change your state constitution's / law's
language so that a free and compulsory public education is offered
to children.

I have never said it was the responsibility of the state to educate
children, they offer it, but it is up to the parents in the first years
and gradually the student to make sure they get it. In the end we
are all responsible for our own education as adults.

Secular homeschoolers
are the fastest growing subset of homeschooers. Religious views are no longer the single biggest choice among those choosing homeschooling-academics and creating a more positive social structure are. Second is certified teachers who have been public school teachers.

Those of you with the media sound bites in your head about religious fundamentalists from the 1980s need to update and join the 21st century.

the troll looks famished
The education of the poorest Americans in rural areas and in the inner cities has not been solved in how many years of public education?

There is stunning evidence that children in voucher lotteries for private schools show improvement even though their family income, family structure, and social culture did not change. How awful of them to shirk their civic responsibility by removing their children from the public schools!

The lack of civic knowledge in that annual test of incoming freshmen (help me out here anyone who remembers the name of it) about basic American history and government is sadly low. Is that what you mean by public schools being some sort of civic obligation?

Perhaps the functional illiteracy rates among Americans should open our eyes. As I understand it even the SAT tests have had to be made easier for our latest generations of American students due to their decreasing academic abilities.

Maybe I should stop pointing that out, my computer programmer husband is making 6 figures due to lack of supply of geeks.

We prefer to teach civic duties like love for God, family, and country by things like reading first source materials by the founders and seeking to emulate the best of each of them. Self reliance and independent thinking along with the pioneer spirit and a sense of self sacrifice are far more beneficial to society in the short and long terms.

reply to e-facts
Funny you should mention stress and Air Traffic Controllers... one of RR's first major acts was to fire a bunch of ATC's. They had a union which kept whining about the stress and how they needed to be paid more. When the union head was asked on national TV how getting paid more would relieve stress, he blathered incoherently.

Some doubters then inconveniently asked why federal workers should be unionized PERIOD and noted that they were paid well for their resume credentials--> see my earlier comments about the ONLY place where unions continue to have true, growing influence is among those paid by government-- teachers, postal, civil service... otherwise, unions have plummeted in influence and numbers, having eaten the golden goose.

Reagan summarily fired the ATC's... they predicted planes would crash and people would die-- NONE DID! My point? GROUP THINK! The ATC's had GREATLY exaggerated their own importance.

There are a good 3 million public school teachers-- their trials and tribulations become legends in their own minds, as the results of their efforts erode even as costs keep rising. Something is rotten in the teachers' lounge!

point/counterpoint
"The near 50% of teacher leaving in five years is widely known and easily searchable"

We also lost over 50% of management associates in banking within 5 years who were paid a market rate salary to start and had masters half the time-- various reasons for that. Beware of such stats proving ANYTHING.

"And full homeschoolers should be involved in curriculum and other things in the public schools as Robert suggests."

Beware of quoting the TH troll "Wobbie" that TH cannot kill, though it has tried-- it is bad debate strategy.

"Any reading of TH and the problems THers see that kids have and how they act would lead any one with the powers of logic to guess that getting 20-30 odd kids would be difficult work."

Your unions have pushed the liberal agendas encouraging "modern" teaching including accepting "diversity" among students, then fret about lack of discipline... they often cannot read and write even as teachers compensation stays ahead of inflation, but yet more expenditure will make it better?!

point/counterpoint 2
"The big question, especially to fairnessman, is what do you want teachers to do? It is unclear what you would have teachers do - hang out at school until it was 8 hours - fwiw most people at the schools I have worked at do put in at least 8 hours at school and you'll find this shocking many do work at home."

Perhaps the BIG question is how can the teachers' unions have the audacity to demand more and more even as measured results deteriorate, while resisting accountability like the plague?! As for "hours," you have dodged the question of a 10 month job. My teacher neighbor leaves later than most and is home by 3:15-- pretty good gig. The college where I teach has a big education program-- the future salary/perks are viewed as a drawing card. I see myriad writing samples from public education mills-- sad.

point/counterpoint (cont'd)
"And Homeschool Mom has the right idea if you agree with getting the state out of education"

As a homeschool dad, I find the usual attacks on it by the union types (e-facts excepted) hilarious... they usually reach to supercilious posits about lack of social skills. At the end of the day, the relative results are a res ipsa loquitur.

The author of "Megatrends" had predicted the inevitable ascendancy of homeschooling and was spot-on correct. Homeschool products EXCEL in group endeavors, partly because their self esteem is often better than those in the public school Big Brother/control mill.

The state once did OK in public education-- until it got PC and forgot the basics of the 3 R's, opting instead for "new methods." The author of the school busing idea later admitted it was a TOTAL mistake... we have dragged down all to improve the lot of the few a trifle. ILLEGAL aliens are iterating this problem with bilingual "education" and low native aptitude. The Hispanic congressman who sponsored bilingual education legislation says it was his worst mistake/deepest regret in public life; Hispanic kids fall FURTHER behind.

dumbing down the SAT
re:
"Perhaps the functional illiteracy rates among Americans should open our eyes. As I understand it even the SAT tests have had to be made easier for our latest generations of American students due to their decreasing academic abilities."

***************************************

Around 1998, the SAT scoring system was "adjusted" downward about 100 points because of the embarrassing downward trend in scores. There is an increasing attack on standardized tests (SAT/ACT) by the PC ilk which alleges that they are not good predictors of college success, and are "biased" to favor students from (white) upper middle class homes. Supposedly, we should place more emphasis on high school GPA's.

The trouble is, standardized tests are the BEST predictors of college success. Furthermore, GPA's are only as good as the respective sources (too often burdened by PC social promotions), where tests are the one common reference measure. Minorities have done better on the so-called "culturally-biased" questions. Finally, IQ is substantially inherited, and a plethora of studies show that IQ and earned income correlate well, so children of better income families should tend to do relatively well on tests. You MIGHT test lower than your innate aptitude on such tests, but you cannot fake a better score.

State Mandated Dumbing Down
The U.S. Dept. of Education and the NEA, have a common goal: Dumbing down and brainwashing the nations kids so that when they grow up, they are thouroughly Socilaized To Be Good Communist Citizesn.

Destruction of Family Values. Destruction of a Belief in God. Destruction of Parnetal Authority. Dumbing down to the Lowest Common Denominator all kids. SAT scores have been padded to give the impression that scores are going back up. This is nonsense and it is Dishonest and it is Being Pushed and Promoted by the U.S. Department of Education and the NEA and all their state and local Affiliates. Teachers of Elementary Schools, in many areas, are having to go and take Remedial Arithmetic Courses just so that they can make an effort at teaching elementary school kids Basic Arithmetic. And all of these teachers have a high school education, which means they graduated High School without Knowledge, Understanding or Skills in Basic Elementary School Arithmetic, much less higher mathematics. And these Same Teachers are Also College Graduates where they also skated by without even learning basic Arithmetic. And, they passed Teacher Education Certification Tests, and Became Certified School Teachers, and we wonder why the kids do not learn, because their teachers Do Not Know Anything to Teach, and so it is easy to get them to Fill Their Days With Our kids teaching them How To Be Politically Correct, and Sensitive to Cultural Diversification, including convincing kids that it is Okay Not To Tell Your Parents, but You Can Trust Us, Your School Teachers, Social Workers, Counselors, and others who Are Brainwashing Our Youth Into being Ignorant and Illiterate One World Village Citizens. Americans need to take Over Their Community Schools and Take them Back From The School Boards and Government Indoctrinated and Illiterate and ignorant Teachers.

M. Jerome Ennis, MAed in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Mandated Dumbing Down 2(cont.)


And these Same Teachers are Also College Graduates where they also skated by without even learning basic Arithmetic.... And, they passed Teacher Education Certification Tests, and Became Certified School Teachers, and we wonder why the kids do not learn, because their teachers Do Not Know Anything to Teach, and so it is easy to get them to Fill Their Days With Our kids teaching them How To Be Politically Correct, and Sensitive to Cultural Diversification, including convincing kids that it is Okay Not To Tell Your Parents, but You Can Trust Us, Your School Teachers, Social Workers, Counselors, and others who Are Brainwashing Our Youth Into being Ignorant and Illiterate One World Village Citizens. Americans need to take Over Their Community Schools and Take them Back From The School Boards and Government Indoctrinated and Illiterate and ignorant Teachers.

Having worked years in public education in a self contained classroom for high school kids identified with Labels such as Emotionally Conflicted/Behavior Disorders/ADD/ADDHD/LD, and other alphabet soup labels that the system to come up with in order to mask the fact that the schools themselves, in the majority of cases, was Causing the Emotional Conflicts and Behavior Disorders and other disorders. Fortunately, these kids came to my classroom, where they Overcame their Labels, and Self Diccipline and Control was Estabilished, and then, they Learned the Academics that the schools had failed to teach them. They got Over Their Labels, and actually caught up and surpassed the So-Called Regular Students, because they Actually Learned Arithmetic and Higher Math skills, Reading Comprehenstion, and how to Write, as well As Self Respect, Respect for Others, and For Resources and how to be Responsible for Themselves and found that they Were Not Disabled, which they so-called Experts had told them.

M. Jerome Ennis, MAed in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

Take Back Our Schools/Communities
Most people today just take it as a given that this mess is unsolvable, short of homeschooling, which I am A Great Proponent for, for those who can do it, and have the requisite knowledge and skills to do so. Unfortunately, there are too many who do not possess these abilities and qualities nor can afford to stay home.

In lieu of that, Parents and Citizens, generally, should Demand An End and Total Dissolution of the U.S. Department of Education, a huge Wasteful Bureaucracy from which Spills This Liberal Agenda and Dumbing Down System to begin with. Then, Abolish State Departments of Education. Then, reduce the sized and waste of Your Local School Boards of Education. Then, Build your Elementary and Middle Schools in the neighborhoods and communities where the children live and play, not to exceed 400 students in each school and no classroom sizes more than 20 students per 1 teacher. This is the start and this can all be done with the existing monies after you abolish the Bureaucracy which is where most of Education Dollars are now spent, along with Contracts to Buy Useless Computers and other Media in Elementary and Middle Schools. Computers are tools, not teaching aids. Kids learn best and learn things that last, such as Math Skills by Doing Math. Learn Writing by Writing. Learn Reading By Reading. Get Back To Basics. Get back To Rational Thinking.

Without the Destruction Of the Bureaucracy that now Mandates all The Attrocities that are taking place, and being backed by Liberal Legislators, and the NEA, we will never turn this country around. End of Conversation. It is simply cut and dry.

Ready this writer's Town Hall Blogs:
Greyhawk in Al----Take Our Schools Back
Take Our Communities Back

M. Jerome Ennis, MAed in Tuscaloosa, Alabama

great insight, Greyhawk!
re:
"This is the start and this can all be done with the existing monies after you abolish the Bureaucracy which is where most of Education Dollars are now spent, along with Contracts to Buy Useless Computers and other Media in Elementary and Middle Schools."

Easily 40% of education funds are spent on bureaucracy and PPE (property, plant and equip.) which do almost nothing, and may even impede, learning. Greyhawk's words just below have the ineluctable ring of truth... we should heed them.

The DOE was created by feckless Jimma' Carter as payback for teacher union support. Could the pols grovel more to the teachers?! Such bureaucracy is all about perpetuating ITSELF. Where does it say in the bible that teachers are uniquely worthy/deserving? Yet their perpetual whines suggest special needs due to unique burdens and rights due to exemplary selflessness. Many have their doubts...

NEA
The NEA makes me sick.

Efacts:
lodestar and a few, unfortunately, very few of us “get it.”

Perhaps as a teacher you can’t even read or understand what you read. Again, yes, I would have teachers “hang around” for eight hours tutoring, cleaning, doing maintenance and yes more or less babysitting, i.e. earning their outrageous compensation, until the two parent working family folks can get out of their REAL jobs to pick up their kids.

Again, absurd, how can a PART TIME job be hard? It’s five hours per day, 36 weeks per year. You clowns “work” HALF the number of hours or less than people with REAL jobs. Again, you have more time off by thirty years old than people with REAL jobs have when they work into their sixties. The list of teacher goodies goes on and on almost to infinity. I will list them shortly. Please efacts, you parasites did not dumb down everybody.

Goodie list
Folks, when your local parasite teacher whines about how hard they have it, please feel free to remind them of the following:

Teachers:
1) work a 5-6 hour day - no other job has this benefit.( Note: Anyone in the private sector making typical teacher salaries of $60K to $100K+ + or even much, much less is expected to put in their 8-9 hour day and then put in unlimited extra time and damn well better do it with a smile and enthusiasm!)
2) have sixteen weeks off every year - no other job has this benefit.
3) are represented by the NEA/NJEA, the biggest, most powerful, militant (and ultra left wing) union on the face of the earth with a multi-hundred million per year propaganda war chest-no other job has this benefit.
4) have endless commercials on radio, TV and the print media telling us what a wonderful job they do “for the children.” so the soccer moms and dads will vote for the next school budget assuring the teachers another large raise-no other job has this benefit.
5) never have to go to work if the weather is bad or if even there is a rumor of bad weather while the soccer moms and dads scramble for someplace/someone to watch the kids because they don’t get snow days-no other job has this benefit.
6) have more time off/vacation by age thirty than other workers get in a lifetime-no other job has this benefit.
7) have the PTO/PTA to show the soccer moms and dads how well they do their jobs so as to gain favor with their benefactors-no other job has this benefit.
8) have tenure-no other job has this benefit.
9) never encounter evening rush hour traffic which takes a heavy toll on body, mind and car-no other job has this benefit.
10) have extra hours every day while all other people are working to schedule shopping, medical, auto repair, etc appointments-no other job has this benefit.

Goodie list, cont.
11) get automatic raises for completing additional college courses-no other job has this benefit.
12) receive excellent pay matched by few other jobs, especially if calculated on an hourly basis. $80K per year is about $80.00 per hour, etc. Plus another 30%-40% in benefits!
13) receive very generous benefits and pensions matched by few other jobs.
14) receive special discounts and other considerations from banks, cruise lines and other commercial entities-no other job has this benefit.
15) have substantial down time built into many day for prep periods, tests, final exams, delayed openings, early dismissals, half days, videos, class trips, etc.-no other job has this benefit.
16) have every politician in the country soil his/her underwear at the mere thought that they should ever have a slip of the tongue and offended teachers or their union-no other job has this benefit.
17) have ten weeks every summer to take a full time job if they choose, in order to increase their already substantial income-no other job has this benefit.
18) have ten weeks every summer to take additional courses, if they choose, in order to get automatic raises-no other job has this benefit.
19) can never be fired, even if they are totally incompetent-few other jobs have this benefit.
20)All that I have left out.




reply to fman's points
At this point thanks to TH's server and having a Mac I can only read
the last 2 posts and can't read any before that after the posts reach
a certain length.

Anyways, Fairnessman has posted the list before and been rebutted
on basically every point by me and others.

Fairness man still not letting facts get in the way of your opinion.
He also has an incredible misunderstanding of different type of work

1) a typical teacher salary was $47,602 for the 2004-5 school year.
And most people know that teachers do more work outside of work than other
jobs – see previous link on teacher work habits.
2) Some teachers could have sixteen weeks off every year – but almost all do other jobs, at some time take required course work, take course work to help their teaching. Teachers do not get to pick their calendar. You think not ask any public/private school parent what they would think of schooling over the summer – 1-2 days for Christmas vacation, etc. fman blames teachers for what society wants.
3) other jobs do have unions that represent them – old people have AARP, that is not even a union, nearly every major business has lobbyists in D.C. if not also in state capitiols.
4) a benefit of commercials the members paid for – see #3
5) snow days are not called by teachers and have to be made up – during that vacation time. This is done for kids’ safety. Parents are aware this is a possibility. Fman acts like he did not know when there might be a snow day when he was a kid – laughable.
6) Yes they can have more time off than other workers – again see #2
7) PTO/PTA’s differ by district – the thought that all are teachers’ lackeys is laughable
8) Teachers do not have tenure – they do have due process rights after several years of service. Not the same thing. Professors have tenure.
9) let’s see I am on the road between 5:30 and 5:50 so yes I miss rush hour traffic. Other teachers who start later don’t.

continued

10) teachers could have extra hours – many coach, run activities, and work more on average at home than other workers
11) other jobs get automatic raises for completing additional college courses – financial services, nursing, etc. etc.
12) hourly rates are not an accurate measure of teachers pay as shown by the report given earlier.
13) receive very generous benefits and pensions matched by few other jobs. This is true.
Hey, 1 for 13 so far!
14) Other groups have special discounts too – you want special benefits join the military!
15) yes other jobs have time to plan – ask any salesperson. Many jobs create their own schedules.
16) every lobbying group does this.
17) any job associated with teaching or colleges have this opportunity
18) other jobs do give time off for courses – financial services does, military does, etc. and yes people get
19) are employees at will until professional status, after professional status can be fired for cause and after due process – other jobs have this too.

What a hoot!
The “rebuttal” to all my solid facts concerning the pampered parasite teachers is laughable. Anyone with two eyes, two ears and that has progressed one iota past their “public education” is laughing themselves to death reading efact’s drivel defense. At least some of us know better. You see folks, Efacts, all teachers and the thug, Commie union still think they can fool all the people all the time.

right an adhominem attack proves you're
right. Wonderful counter rebuttal.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks Lodestar in Ga
Hey my friend, you made some excellent points in your comments earlier, and thanks for taking the time to read and comment on my posts. I am adamant about taking the country back and it has to start with taking our kids back. The past 30 and more years, we have been taken down the tubes educationally and are now about number 27 down the list of educational systems in the developed world. At this rate of decrease in educational standards, we will quickly become a third rate third world country, which, I truly believe is the aim of the One World Government crowd. Everything these Liberal Mindless Democrats do takes us further down that slople, and couple that with our U.N. mandates, and other interanational treaties and agreements, including NAFTA, CAFTA, etc. and the recent Buddy System with China where American Businesses are going there and Partnering 50-50 with the Chinese Communists, it is getting there fast.

With an illiterate populace who have been dumbed down and at the same time Socialized to the point of looking to government for everything, and the influx of tens of millions of illegals who are bringing down the wage scales, etc. the Circle is Almost Complete.

Taking kids back has to be done and done soon, as we will not surive another generation of the kids who will be called on to lead tomorrow. By then, there will be nothing left to lead. The Communist Dictators will be totally in charge, and we will be speaking a combination of Anglo/Latino/Mandarin dialects and the smartest American coming out of a public indoctrination Center called Schools will have an IQ of about 68, and for the most part will not be able to take care of him or herself to begin with.

Academic Skills Are Gone
The main point about all of this is the fact that these schools, for the most part, are not teaching Academics because Too Much Time Is Being Spent on The Political Correctness Indoctrination and Brainwashing of our children.

And, unfortunately, new teachers coming out of these dumbed down teacher colleges, after coming out of the Dumbed Down High Schools, the level of abilities of teachers is becoming lower and lower, and consequently we are now hiring certified teachers who are basically illiterate themselves. This is a Travesty. If the NEA or the U.S. Dept. Of Education truly cared about this country and it's future, they would drop their Non-School Functions of Liberalizing and Politically Correcting and other wise brainwashing our children, the would make some radical changes and revert back to the way schools were run with great success 40 years ago, before the New Reconstruction of America began under Lyndon B. Johnson, who, undoubtedly is the worst scumbag ever elected to any political office.

We must take our kids back from these Dumbing Down and Brainwashing Factories. The NEA and the Dept. of Education have one Agenda, and that is all perversion and their sick social agenda, and at the same time Preserving Their Empire Status and the power, control, and money that goes along with that.

Most young teachers just do not know any better, because they are too young to have ever received a decent education in the public education system. Fortunately, a few were fortunate enough to be homeschooled or went to a decent private school, but all too many people who become teachers come out of the very schools that they were forced to attend until at least age 16. Obama wants to start them out now at 2 years old, as they want to make sure that no child Goes Un-Socialized, Dumbed Down, and Brainwashed. This is wake up call America. We cannot survive as a free country if the Worthless School System continues much longer.

teacher with ideas
Click on:

Waski_the_Squirrel (post #56)

He has some interesting ideas in his education blog.

No my friend efantasyfacts
,facts and truth prove I’m right. BTW genius, that’s ad hominem

We appreciate you and all teacher, parasite thugs at least being consistent. None of you ever let truth; facts and reality get in the way of teacher/union B.S. in your virtual, fantasy world inside the magic kingdom. We all wonder if you are really dumb enough to really believe all the propaganda you constantly vomit.

Again, your arguments are laughable and are as convincing as the supposed qualifications your boy Obama-nation has to be president.

I’ll play your silly game and just blow up a few of your nonsense arguments in your
face.

NONSENSE: “10) teachers could have extra hours – many coach, run activities, and work more on average at home than other workers.
FACT: After a grueling 5 hour day coaching, etc. is additional pay. Funny, my last three hours + many extra hours did not put one cent in my pocket, it just made it possible to keep my job. People with real jobs work 8 or more hours at work and then many times take work home, and the work is a lot harder than correct an occasional third grade spelling test – and our jobs depend upon doing all our work well.


actually, no
some coaching jobs are salaried - many aren't, some activities are
stipended many are not. All extra help, after school help, etc.
does not fit into your hourly rates. Nor does committee work
which everywhere I've worked is unpaid. Or setting up classrooms
before the school year starts. Or grading essays - they still don't
grade themselves. Or at home preparation, etc. etc. etc. No one,
except for you, believes that teachers work the bare minimum of
hours. Again see the report on teacher work habits which you
obviously haven't.

If you'll read the Think Tank Review of Jay Greene's "How Much
are Teachers Paid" you'll find out why hourly rates is a
"fundamentally flawed" metric:
http://epsl.asu.edu/epru/epru_2007_thinktankreview.htm

#14 no insult was given, but you received one. I have 2 brothers in
the military and have had 3 other serve, my father was also in the
military so your pretended offense is insulting. My brothers who
have tried teaching thought it was harder than the military - how's
that for anecdotal evidence.

That the military get discounts is no secret and says nothing about
my morals or conscience.

Obama is qualified to be President because he is a natural born
citizen over 35 years of age who has been in residence for 14 years.

efantasyfacts - try harder!
As usual you have not refuted any of my facts. Any specifically uncompensated “work” after your grueling 5 hour day may mean that you or a typical lazy teacher may occasionally approach “working” an eight hour day. O God, what a horror!

As a degreed electrical engineer I know may math skills are questionable but please explain to us how dollars divided by hours worked DOES NOT equal hourly pay? As a genius school teacher, have you discovered a new branch of mathematics?

My last post about teacher vs. military discounts stands. Shame on you.


The empty suit, fake, phony, fraud Obama is about as qualified to be president as you and all teachers are qualified to lead a discussion on integrity, honesty and morals.

Teacher creedo:
1) Rob the taxpayers/parents blind.
2) Lie to parents/taxpayers.
3) Never stop complaining.
4) Do everything possible to destroy the family
5) Do everything possible to destroy what is left of this once great country.
6) Teach as little real academic skills as possible while teaching as much politically correct garbage as possible in order to raise another generation of little mindless robots ready to agree with the teacher/union thug party line.

There will be a special hotter place for your kind down below.

fair and balanced man
you still don't let facts get in the way of your opinion.
don't worry if you keep on saying something enough maybe you'll
believe it.

the math you gave was simply inaccurate because you are using
contract hours. this should was clear by my list of hours outside
the contract that teachers do. so, the math is wrong because your
numbers are wrong. wrong inputs lead to wrong outputs.

if your think that teacher teachers have it easy I recommend you
read the book _Teachers Have it Easy: The Big Sacrifices and Small
Salaries of America's Teachers_ On this site is a chart from the
book:
http://www.campusprogress.org/soundvision/273/teachers-have -it-easy

See you down below!




david brooks on education stagnation
Here is a recent David Brooks article on education:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/29/opinion/29brooks.html?_r= 1&oref=slogin
Quoting from the article:
"In “Schools, Skills and Synapses,” Heckman probes the sources of that decline. It’s not falling school quality, he argues. Nor is it primarily a shortage of funding or rising college tuition costs. Instead, Heckman directs attention at family environments, which have deteriorated over the past 40 years.

Heckman points out that big gaps in educational attainment are present at age 5. Some children are bathed in an atmosphere that promotes human capital development and, increasingly, more are not. By 5, it is possible to predict, with depressing accuracy, who will complete high school and college and who won’t.

I.Q. matters, but Heckman points to equally important traits that start and then build from those early years: motivation levels, emotional stability, self-control and sociability. He uses common sense to intuit what these traits are, but on this subject economists have a lot to learn from developmental psychologists."

NEA Ideology - Misguided!
Please wake up! One should never relinquish their primary role as "teacher" of their own children, when it comes to learning intrinsic values, both social and religious.

TRUTH is what it is. It does not alter with social appetites.
MORALITY "does not" mean teaching hatred because it differs and refuses to bend.

BUT...being silent about Immorality will certainly increase the demoralization of human and family dignity. We are in crisis now.

There is wisdom in why God creates the order He does! In our arrogance we presume to know better than He. In our stupidity, we think God will never respond.


misguided godless educators
As a retired NEA member, I am ashamed to be associated with these radicals who give all teachers a bad name. I would never take their lead--godless, irreverent, liberal, Obamarite,shameless, arrogant people with no sense of right or wrong.Anything goes with these people; they seem to not understand that their actions go against God completely. If I were to do it all over again with my children, I would probably home-school them to shield them from the horrors of the public classroom.

NEA spells out it's policies
The radical buttons passed out during the NEA convention are but a sign of the times in which we live. One is considered dim witted if they believe in God and try to adhere to good moral values and the laws of God. Our country is no longer a democracy, but a pathetic country catering to the perverted desires of the minority opinions (eg. taking prayer from the schools, the ten commandments from the courthouses, etc.)It is as in the days before the flood- people are unmindful of the coming disaster brought on by the lack of morality and the futility of constantly giving in to sinful pursuits. Pray, pray, pray for America.

PRAY TO STOP THE NEA AGENDA
The NEA should be ashamed to attached it's association with such radical agenda. I am a former teacher who has been raising her children but am going to enter the teaching field once again. I leaning toward teaching in a parochial school environment as well as my children.

This only makes it quite clear to vote independent or Republican. The Voucher system should be made available as another option for parents to protect their children from such filth and moral degredation.

NEA Spells Its Policies
Mrs. Schlafly’s article was most enlightening. I am not a teacher nor have school age children. Comments to this article have confirmed one thing. The pursuit of happiness and truth is dying and no one is to blame but ourselves. By the time I read all 135 comments the travesty of the article was lost. There is no reason why such an organization should exist. If, from what I read, the NEA does not represent most of the teachers, then why are most of the teachers afraid to say “NO” to them?

Being bullied into being a Union member and then ignore most of their policies, is just wrong! Either don’t join and try to talk others not to join or join and try to sway other like minded member to push for a change.
For those of us who are not teachers I suggest we try to enlighten those around us. If this union has the power to influence or rather buy a candidate then the public should know.

Yes we need to pray (for courage and determination) but we also need to stop whining and comparing our salaries. We need to stand up for our values and our children!


Rose Marie
I think you missed the points of many of my posts - these stands
that the NEA has do not affect teachers in the classroom. What
does is having a building rep that you can take a problem to and
that rep will take it to the principal and you would remain
anonymous. Also, most teachers know that the union can get them
a better contract than they could by themselves. One need not
agree with a party's or an organization's platform to think they
should join just its main benefits or practices.

everyonesfacts
You better check your facts again. If a teacher doesn't follow the agenda and/or objects to it they can very quickly lose their jobs regardless of tenure.
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