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Monday, June 30, 2008
Phyllis Schlafly :: Townhall.com Columnist
American Innovation Supremacy At Risk
by Phyllis Schlafly
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The high-priced corporate lobbyists walking Capitol Hill corridors have a new mantra: innovation. They demand that Congress bring in more guest workers, especially from Asia, in order to maintain American innovation supremacy.

The lobbyists' backup buzzword is "the best and the brightest." They argue that U.S. workers in science, technology, engineering and mathematics are in short supply and we must now import foreign engineers and scientists, i.e., allow the multinationals to bring in an increased or even unlimited number of H-1B visas.

Their argument lacks evidence: Economics 101 teaches that shortages in labor or goods produce higher wages or higher prices. In fact, we have no shortage of engineers or computer techies, so their wages are stagnant and are certainly not going up. In 2005, we graduated 271,000 students with bachelor's or master's degrees in science and engineering who were citizens or legal residents. The dean of Duke University Engineering School says that 40 percent of his graduates do not get engineering jobs. Bill Gates and other multinationals simply prefer to hire Asians, particularly from India, who work for low wages and can be trained on the job.

Professor Norman Matloff examined the H-1B record and discovered that H-1B visa recipients are mostly employees of ordinary talent doing ordinary work. Most of them work at levels I and II, described by the Department of Labor in terms akin to apprenticeship, while very few H-1B workers are at level IV, the level of expertise whose description is associated with innovation. "Aliens of extraordinary ability" and outstanding professors and researchers can come into our country in another category, EB-1, and we welcome them. Another argument used by the lobbyists is that international comparisons of math and science K-12 test scores show that Americans are weak. That cannot be used as evidence because India and China refuse to participate in those tests. Professor Matloff dispels the myth that our tech industry owes its success to math geniuses coming from Asia. The evidence does not support this "Asian mystique."

The Department of Homeland Security is doing its part to help the multinationals hire foreign graduates of U.S. universities instead of Americans by increasing the time foreign students can join the U.S. labor pool without an H-1B visa from 12 months to 29 months.

On a Friday afternoon, DHS quietly announced a new regulation that figuratively staples an H-1B visa to the diploma of all foreign graduates in science, technology, engineering or math. This bureaucratic edict really increases the H-1B cap by 23,000, which is the number of foreign students getting degrees in science, math and engineering this year.

Foreigners can remain in the United States for up to six years on an H-1B visa. That's plenty of time to have an anchor baby and stay forever, and there is no accounting of those who leave when their visa time is up.

The H-1B program was originally set up to help U.S. companies by allowing them to bring in specially qualified foreigners to fill jobs for which no American can be found. But six of the top 10 H-1B visa recipients in 2007 are based in India, and two others headquartered in the U.S. have most of their operations in India.

This year's keynote session of the American Institute of Mining, Metallurgical, & Petroleum Engineers revealed how U.S. supremacy in technology is under attack in even more devious ways. A panel of speakers described the future role of U.S. engineers in the 21st century.

One speaker proclaimed that "pure engineering tasks" will all be outsourced, that our engineers must realize they are "citizens of the world," and that we must abandon "the engineer of the past, with a slide rule hanging from his belt," and change into a "personable manager with an engineering background" who will create personal relations with "external" clients.

A second speaker predicted that "engineering jobs will develop overseas and stay there since the technical resources will be there and the infrastructure will follow." A third speaker said that an engineer must "be prepared to jump from one place to another" because it's "risky for engineers to be focused on a very narrow aspect of any specific job."

A fourth speaker said that our challenge is "not so much the technical engineering but the sociopolitical engineering." A fifth speaker said, "The quality and quantity of R&D going overseas is increasing faster than it is here in the United States." We wonder if there is any longer a purpose in American students taking the scholarly road of engineering school. To paraphrase a once-popular TV ad, "Where's the innovation?"

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About The Author

Phyllis Schlafly is a national leader of the pro-family movement, a nationally syndicated columnist and author of Feminist Fantasies.
 
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Thank you
Expose the liars and their lies.

Globalization and Free Markets
What is it with you backward conservatives. A Free Market in a Free World raises all boats. Instead of complaining about how the US is letting too many foreigners in, how about advocating for Americans to be granted working visas in the global marketplace.

Free Markets demand free movement of labor. Let the best and the brightest find jobs where the jobs are. Instead of ringing our hands, demand that Lazy Conservativs get on their feet and move to where the jobs are.

American companies want to higher foreigners for one good reasons. Foreigners work harder and are more dependable. They are hungry for employment, and will risk life and limb to make a better future for their families.

When Conservatives are willing to move to China, or India, or Europe, or Mexico and slave away so their families can have a better life, then Conservatives can start to wine....

In the mean time suck it up and work harder.

It's no secret
That rather than raise wages to attract more American workers, tech companies would rather lobby government to bring in more foreign workers. It has also been going on for some time that business has been moving its operations to "low cost centers" overseas. I guess they got to do what they got to do. Though it kind of irks me when they spout the idea that the American worker should get used to the idea that he is a "citizen of the world". By that they usually mean that we should get used to the idea that we compete in a global labor market. Which is usually another way of saying that since a lot of those workers in the global labor market live in grass huts or shantytowns, don't expect to get paid too much. Whatever. That's the game. I get it.

However, these spokesmen for the global corporation are acting like countries don't matter anymore. The United States set up the international system (along with their allies in western europe and later japan) which protects all of their business interests. What happens when a government in one of these "low cost centers" suddenly flips out and nationalizes all the foreign business? Who are they going to run to? The US Government. The military power supporting this international system is manned by US citizens. Though many business' show no loyalty to the citizens of the United States, I'm sure they all expect the US government and military to defend their interests abroad.

SanDiego LeftCoast - Thank You!
I have been blogging about this for a long time, and no one seems to even notice!

The corporations are bringing in foreigners to hire instead of native born Americans, presumably because they can get them cheaper.

I am sick and tired of hearing about job creation, when I see that the jobs that are being created are going to foreigners!

Most of my industry is out of work. When I had a temporary job last year in a well known studio, most of the workers who had permanant jobs were from other countries, while Americans were outside the door, begging for jobs.

The woman who was in charge of my department on my project COULDN'T SPEAK ANY ENGLISH and had to rely on a man from another department to hand out the work to us. She was mediochre at her job, and any one of the hundreds of Americans looking for jobs could have done the job better.

There used to be a law that jobs could not be given to foreigners if there were qualified workers in the area, but somehow this law has either disappeared, or is ignored, as all other immigration law is ignored!

Don't get me started.

What percentage of job growth?
Government publications define guest-worker authorizations in terms of visas, but many of these visas are multi-year work authorizations and most can be extended. Employment growth can be defined in terms of year to year growth in the employed labor force.

By multiplying the number of guest-worker visa by the duration, we can compare the temporary work authorizations to employment growth.


Growth in employment is taken from the BLS publication:

Series Id: LNU02000000
Not Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Unadj) Employment Level
Labor force status: Employed

2002 = (-448,000)
2003 = 1,251,000
2004 = 1,516,000
2005 = 2,478,000
2006 = 2,697,000
2007 = 1,620,000

Source: http://www.bls.gov

Initial work authorizations for temporary workers in years.
(Number of visas multiplied by initial duration of visa)
2003 = 810,999 (65% of same year employment growth)
2004 = 908,487 (60% of same year employment growth)
2005 = 897,848 (36% of same year employment growth)
2006 = 991,137 (37% of same year employment growth)
2007 = 1,128,142 (70% of same year employment growth)

Initial work authorizations with single renewal for temporary workers in years.
(Number of visas multiplied by initial duration plus renewal duration of visa)

2003 = 1,425,163 (114% of same year employment growth)
2004 = 1,622,802 (107% of same year employment growth)
2005 = 1,595,185 (64% of same year employment growth)
2006 = 1,710,500 (63% of same year employment growth)
2007 = 1,923,835 (119% of same year employment growth)

http://immigration-weaver.blogspot.com/2008/06/labor-author izations-in-terms-of-years_08.html

Foreign Workers
Phyllis Shlafley has obviously not looked at the Silicon Valley phone book, or driven through the Central Valley of California. These industries are dependent upon foreigners who come here to work - one for their intellectual power; the other for their muscle power. Even today, unemployment at 5.5% is below the long term average, and the 18,000,000 jobs created during the Bush presidency are, in many cases, the result of productive immigrants. If we are going to remain the preeminent nation on earth, we need to be receptive to employing the most capable and motivated workers in the world.

At Capital One
I worked as a contractor at Capital One. My supervisor was on an H1-B visa.

Once a week a bus load of Chinese 22 year-olds would pull up to the HR building and file in for testing and interviews.

It's a strange country where highly qualified disabled veteran white males hold the contractor jobs and H1-B holders are the supervisors.

Another thing… in the HR building I noticed a display case posting notices describing H1-B employees. The job titles/descriptions of the H1-Bs were that of ordinary educated knowledge workers. Furthermore, the pay rates listed seemed about 30% lower than market rates.

As your HR department where they post the H1-B notices.

MORE H1B visas??
The real reason lobbyists want more H1B's is to keep wages low in the tech sector and other technical fields.

This makes Americans look to other fields, and reduces innovation by Americans. By quite a bit.

The best and most creative engineers and programmers I know have given up competing with H1B's who happily work for extremely low wages and have gone into managment or other fields.

uber :
In the fields we are talking about, they don't work any harder and anen't any more reliable. And in the cases I've seen first hand, are actually a little less productive.

But the do work cheaper. Much cheaper. And eventually you will discover that in your field (assuming you are employed) if things don't change.

RightinSanFrancisco
This is a lot of nonsense.

My brother has worked in the computer industry almost from the beginning, and he and his American friends are always in fear for their jobs.

He is currently working for a Japanese firm that hires mostly Japanese people that they bring over here, and they give Japanese people preferential treatment over other nationalities.

I believe that there is something going on among the globalists and the multinational corporations that I will address in a subsequent post.

What are the globalists up to?
It is my contention that the globalists are working in concert to weaken the United States from many fronts.

The strength and soverignity of America stands between the globalists and their vision of a one-world government.

This accounts for the deliberate actions of many to devalue the dollar, and for the corporations that seek to put Americans out of work while bringing in foreigners at a record rate to replace us.

When we complain, they come up with "cooked" statistics that claim to prove job creation, not mention that none of these created jobs are going to Americans.

I have no idea how to stop this, because unfortunately there are globalists on both ends of the political spectrum, who pretend to be at odds, and get the people focused on other issues, while they tear at the seams of our society.

Scary...
Pretty scary article to read for a college Engineering student.

The company I work for outsources some software engineering to India. The engineers there are much cheaper, but their work is sub-standard. We spend a ton of time righting their wrongs.

H-1B visa is a subsidy for India...
The H-1B visa scam is nothing but a subsidy for India, at the expense of young Americans going into the engineering and computer (IT) fields.

End result: More Indians and Chinese who come here on the NON-IMMIGRANT H-1B visa, wind up gaming the system, staying for life, sponsoring their relatives to come here and then we wonder why the level of immigration is so high. LoL

It's a scam for foreigners wishing to become "immigrants" to the US, nothing more.

America has been given away
on many fronts. Sadly, the beneficiaries are not the slightest bit concerned with fairness, diversity, multiculturalism, etc...

After hard working, productive Americans are through being pillaged by our government because we're "rich and lucky" or "privileged", we'll need to get really comfortable cleaning the toilets for the Chinese, Indians, and Arabs. That's what'll be left for us as due payback for having been part of what once was the world power.

Transferring Innovation to India
As a consultant I see it all the time.

Educated and experienced American technologists are choosing to abandon their careers due to price competition from Asians. They are encouraging their children to pursue other careers, because it is not a level playing field.

It is not that Americans are not available with the skills business needs. It is that some businessmen think they can get those skills cheaper offshore. They think that the short term results will improve. Their successor will have to deal with any attrition of staff expertise and consequently declining business results, not them. The government will have to worry about the diminished tax base of an eroding middle class and increased discontent of the electorate. Not their problem.

So it becomes our problem. I think we need to level the playing field so that American technologists have at least a level playing field.

But first, we have to get the rest of the Right to recognize that it is a problem. After all, many if not most of us subscribe to free market economics, and some of us are still under the illusion that the transfer of the knowledge industry to Asia is happening as a result of the free market rather than government intervention.

But there is a higher principle than free market economics. I remember a debate decades ago when William F. Buckley debated one of my childhood heroes about free trade. I expected Buckley to win that one easily because 1)he was a master debater, 2) I was very much enthralled by free market theory and 3) I didn't know my old childhood hero could even debate.

Big surprise. Ronald Reagan won the debate and changed my outlook. America is mankind's last and best hope for liberty. We need to realize that. We need to preserve it. And we can't preserve America if we sabotage the middle class.

Globalization and Free Markets
I have to agree with the liberal on this one. It seems overwrought at the least to be worried about a relatively few educated workers admitted under legal visas when millions of uneducated and destitute are slipping across the borders unnoted. It would seem to me that if we could get illegal immigration under some sort of control, we could substantially and intelligently expand legal immigration.

Reply to Uber
Nice free market theory.

In the real world an American would not discriminate in hiring on the basis of national origin because it is illegal. Asians given hire/fire authority consistently discriminate in hiring on the basis of national origin because to do otherwise would be "disloyal
to their "countrymen".

In the real world an American frequently has to compete with "diversity" goals at a college in order to be accepted. Asian colleges do not have a corresponding requirement for "diversity" in accepting American students.

In the real world an American cannot be hired to perform many scientific or engineering jobs because the host country realizes that it is not in that country's best interest to have such important jobs being performed by foreign nationals.

And as far as your assumptions about the work habits of foreign nationals go, I presume you were talking about the Chinese. The Chinese I have had working for me were great. Their resumes were humble, they worked like crazy and they were conscientious to a fault. I found that the people from the Asian country next to China had grotesquely inflated resumes with unverifiable references (usually government or college), worked like crazy to avoid work and worked even harder to avoid accountability and responsibility.

Theory is great but it is no substitute for experience.



Globalists on crack:
First there is uber, if you look up the translation, this globalist has a pretty high opinion of his uber-self and displays low opinion of others.

uber sez...

"A Free Market in a Free World raises all boats."

America is a single boat, when overloaded, all boats sink -- even the brightest and best will drown eventually. Now, if people stayed in their own boat, there is a possibility that some raising would occur.

RightinSanFrancisco sez...

"If we are going to remain the preeminent nation on earth, we need to be receptive to employing the most capable and motivated workers in the world."

This isn't a football game there are limitations and bragging rights ("preeminent nation") are just not that important. Besides, we already can and do employ employ the most capable and motivated workers in the world -- we just don't need to move them here to hyperinflate our living costs.

The actual number of (BLS) jobs under the Bush admin is 9.7 million not 18 million as claimed by RightinSanFrancisco. Meanwhile, the Civilian noninstitutional population grew by 21.2 million.

FYI:
Oct. 2005 Census data:
Enrolled in high school
...15 years old = 4,014,000
...16 and 17 years old = 8,272,000
...18 and 19 years old = 1,372,000







Some things haven't changed in 20 years
Almost 20 years ago I was attending local engineering society meetings and we had to come up with a position paper on how well engineering employment matched available engineeering talent. Our conclusion was that there was a slight surplus of engineers, but a number of spot shortages of narrow specialists. In other words, the problem was that companies would not train engineers for these specialities, they would rather buy them, from overseas if necessary - sort of like the ending of the apprentice programs.

There is no free market
There is no free market for American labor - at any skill level. American workers are saddled with Workman's Comp, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid taxes, health care and other liabilities which foreigners are not. With inflation being what it is, companies simply cannot afford anymore to hire Americans with their attendant expenses and problems.

When was the last time that Microsoft or any of these other outsourcers stood up and told the government to stop causing inflation? When did they stand up against the onslaught of the above-named socialism? When did they ever defend capitalism, outside of weak arguments presented in lawsuits? When did their lobbyists ever do anything other than finagle regulators to impose the burdens onto their competitors instead? They sat there and took it like little girls, and now they want to slink off and hire Indians for dimes on the dollar to stave off the economic collapse they should have fought to prevent in the first place. I am extremely disappointed with the so-called leadership of America's largest companies. These people are paid to understand economics, yet they are incompetents in this regard.

It is up to us to understand the problem, because no one else cares to do so. It is time to free the American labor market. I fully believe that the American worker is, on average, superior to international competitors and that American companies would gladly hire them - if they could afford to.

We must insist on the abolition of all our social welfare schemes at every opportunity.

Commie Colonization
I smell "reds" masquerading as globalists.

Uber:
1."you backward conservatives" 2."raises all boats"
3."movement of labor"
4."Lazy Conservatives"
5."hungry for employment"


RightinSanFrancisco:
1."intellectual power"
2."muscle power"
3."jobs created ..are... result of productive immigrants"

RETIRED AEROSPACE WORKER
I have seen several. factors in the scientific/knowledge worker field that increase the demand for foreign workers.

First, as several posters have said, is the desire to keep scientific/knowledge workers wage rates low, both by outsourcing and bringing in foreign workers.

Second, there is a disincentive for American students to major in Engineering and the Sciences because they have observed, or their parents have told them, that relatively few of them will ever ascend the corporate ladder. Whether engineers lack political skills, leadership, or what, I couldn't say.

Third, technical skills nowadays, especially in computers and electronics, become obsolete relatively rapidly, An older engineer, who hasn't made it into management, will find himself working for a salary not far above the recent hires.

Finally, aerospace and government employees find themselves working in an environment dominated by the government procurement rules. That means engineers are hired by the acre, in those industries to shuffle paper and do any number of redundant tasks. The company doesn't care, they simply do as directed, and the cost of the product goes up, not the quality, and the government pays for it. Not much room for initiative and innovation.

I still think that if you haven't studied science and engineering, you are ignorant, but I'm glad to be retired. It was a good ride while it lasted.

Dusty
Yes to closing the borders against wet backs.

No to expanding legal immigration.

I don't know where you live, but in my community, white people are the minority.

There are three immigrant groups that each outnumber the white people in this middle class area.

The supposed legal immigrants are not only doing employees out of jobs, but undercutting small business owners. I say supposed, because I am aware that the Armenians are sneaking their family members in illegally and putting them up in their overcrowded homes.

My girlfriend and her father are both CPAs. He had a successful business, and my friend worked for him.

Then the Koreans moved into the area in droves. Korean bookkeepers aggressively went after their business undercutting them, until my friend's father had to let his own daughter go.

I was working in a service industry for a while, doing a skilled job. Thai national opened shops and started charging 1/3 the prevailing rate. You can't live on that amount, so I suspect it was a front for a prostitution ring.

There are so many prostitutes from other countries: Thailand and Russia in particular, and they pose as all kinds of service professions: even as Chiropractors. The cities have regulated the service industries so harshly, it is impossible to make a living.

I just bought a float for the pool, and on the bottom are instructions in about eight languages: Spanish, French, Russian, Korean, Japanese, Armenian, Italian and who knows what else. It makes the float look ugly, because the words take up so much space.

You may not live in an area where this is a problem, but just wait: at the rate they are letting the immigrants in, your community is going to go global, and then you will see how much you like it. Then don't come whining to me about it.

No doubt
to me that H-1B visas mainly exist to lower the cost to business of technical workforce. Whether or not in the larger economy that is a good thing I don't know. But I have to laugh when I hear all these politicians going on and on about "STEM", since it doesn't seem that cost effective to pursue a highly technical field without much hope of adequate payback. What ones there are who do follow this path need to do is either look towards the defense industry, or licensed fields such as civil.

The Wrong Focus
Somehow people like Schlafly always seem to think that a more restrictive, intrusive government is the answer, then they use anecdotal evidence and sneer at the facts.

If we want more businesses locating and thriving in the US, we need to improve the business climate. Lower corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, and other taxes and regulations are the right approach to making the US economy more fiercely "competitive". Lower tariffs provide less expensive goods, more choices, and more innovation to American consumers, as well as lower-cost raw materials to American businesses.

And yes, we DO need more H-1B visas. We already have some businesses locating out of the US, not because of restrictive trade and tax policies (although that hurts us), but because they can't fill the technical and engineering positions. No matter how much Schlafly wants to ignore the facts, there simply aren't enough engineering and technical grads to fill the needed positions with American-born workers.

Big Government solutions are not the answer when proposed by the left to exert more control over individuals, businesses, and the economy, and neither are they the right answer when coming from so-called "conservatives". We need MORE free market capitalism, not less.

Choosing our Immigrants
If we did not have to deal with the uneducated, poor souls stealing their way into the US every day, we could pick and choose the people allowed to come to our country. That does not mean that we would not choose farm workers - it just means that we could choose the farm workers instead of relying on immigrants already accustomed to breaking our laws and abusing our social services!
Secure our borders - now! That is the most irritating thing about John McCain's appeal. He is a Senator - he had the chance to do it right - and bungled it! And now he wants to backtrack and say he was right all along. This guy is a know-it-all un-educatable entity - dangerous for his ideas! But - he is still better than Obama!

I will speak as a hiring engineer....

I interview on the order of 20-50 candidates per year for jobs that pay very well. In fact, when we hire out of college, we mostly hire from the elite universities, MIT, Berkeley, Stanford, etc.

Most of the students we hire are grad students which means they are mostly foreign. I know of no hire's except in less technical positions for those with bachelor's degrees.

We never hire to suppress wages, as Miss economics illiterate Schafly insinuates. We hire only the brightest minds who we judge to be capable of doing the work. We pay them according to their experience and our needs.

The US appears, from my vantage point to be graduating far fewer American born engineers that are qualified to do the kind of work we do. they are just not scientifically, or engineering "literate" to the degree of competance we need. This is a failure of our primary education system, in which the US ranks almost dead last among industrialized nations in math and science.

As a result, the standards of undergraduate engineering have dropped. Meanwhile China, and India are graduating 10x the engineers we are, and the competition is fierce. This is where many companies are finding technically competent engineers. When I entered the college of EE at the University of Washington, you needed a 3.8GPA to get into the department. 10 years later, you needed only a 3.0. The interest in math and science among US undergrads waned. The quality of graduates has softened also.

One more comment.....about Schafly's
column....

"Professor Norman Matloff examined the H-1B record and discovered that H-1B visa recipients are mostly employees of ordinary talent doing ordinary work. Most of them work at levels I and II, described by the Department of Labor in terms akin to apprenticeship, while very few H-1B workers are at level IV, the level of expertise whose description is associated with innovation."

I would be hard pressed to make any kind of judgments based on levels of who does and doesn't do "innovative" work.

In my > 20 years experience as an engineer, designers are more innovative than test engineers who are more innovative than production engineers, regardless "level" which is a metric more of years experience as an engineer.

Maybe younger engineers might be less innovative than more seasoned engineers, they are preoccupied with learning a lot of subtleties of engineering out of college, and they are generally assigned the less difficult tasks where there is little room for innovation. But an engineer's "level" is more indicative of years of experience rather than ability to innovate.


another comment...
Foreigners still flock here for grad school and jobs since the US pays better than, say China, or India. They are simply raising the bar....raising the competition and raising the technical competence level. These graduates make smoother transitions from school to the engineering environment.

This transition does indeed raise the innovation capabilities. Perhaps Ms. Economically Illiterate Schafly wants to force companies to hire only US born and public school educated masses. Then companies (who are in the business of making money, and are not in the business of wasting money will spend its hard earned profits in training these young engineers in math and science to get them up to par....

Colleges today are full of remedial math and science programs....guess Schafly wants the same to be true of US corporations.

re: heresyarch
The problem is that protectionists like Schlafly don't see the big picture. They, like you suggest, don't understand economics; instead of competition, expanded markets, specialization, comparative advantage, and a "growing pie", they see only the concept, shared by those on the left, that if one person succeeds in the economy it occurs at the expense of someone else. Thus, she and others, e.g., Pat Buchanan, Lou Dobbs, etc., advocate greater government intrusion in the marketplace.

Russians are Coming:Russians are coming
Back off the hysteria. How many of these immigrants are working at the neighborhood minimart owned by a family member?

Competition is tough and whether we bring them here or they stay there the work will be done. We either import what they make or export what they make.

Our problem is not with foreign workers it is with an education system which is not producing the engineers, scientists and innovators.

Forget science many high school graduates do not read or write the language.


Semper Libertas
I agree and I couldn't agree more with your earlier posting. Unfortunately, we have so much government intrusion. One of my pet peeves is the federal reserve that for Schlafly, Dobbs, Buchanan, et.al. populists, all of them, US wages can never ever be flexible downward. Government protectionism must be used to artificially prop wages up (to keep up with government induced inflation ...more government solutions to government induced problems which will create additional problems that the government will have to tend to. Its the forever enlargement of the state.

The other thing that irritates me about Schlafly is that for a Christian, she seems awefully xenophobic. Her Christianity is a nationalized Christianity. Damn sound economic principles that lessens the need for the state and provides properity for all.....in fact in this sense, there seems to be little difference between pro-Union big government Unions, and Schlafly.

As the church lady says, "Isn't that interesting".

The horse is out of the barn.
For what it's worth, over 1/2 the income of the S&P 500 comes from outside the US. By definition, over 1/2 of there employees are not Americans. There is an idea that the US can keep its "pre-eminence", which is no longer a meaningful perspective. As other nations industrialize and grow, our share of the world economy which is now at 22%, will steadily decline. As it declines, the relative amount of innovation and technical developments will decline in direct relationship. As the eductional standards of other countries increase, and as there middle class expands, the brainpower we now attract will stay there. And even this is a poor example. The fact is that China and India combined turn out 8 engineers for every one of ours. 95% or more of them do not move to the US. However, American companies are increasingly moving their R&D operations to such countries. The bottom line is we are now enmeshed in an integrated and global economy. We long ago exported our sovreignity and imported our dependency. Our government cannot operate without debt financing from foreign banks, our military cannot build most of its major weapons systems without the involvement of numerous off-shore companies, our stock markets operate with huge infusions of off-shore capital, and our country, which now imports $2.2 trillion worth of commodoties and products cannot maintain itself without those imports. Most hosuehold appliances, power tools, engine components for automobiles, clothes, etc, are now imported. It's a little late to be talking about all of this.

Innovation and the U.S.
I remember an ad one time: "Need for a engineer manager capable of overseeing thirty five engineers, keeping up with their work, and developing a new, patentable item weekly."

Eastern engineering is primarily set by someone with an idea appointing a number of engineers to follow a set procedure to determine affects of minor changes. (i.e., adding a drop of one chemical to another and testing, adding two drops and testing, etc.) American engineering is primarily based on recognizing a problem and finding a solution.

Which would you prefer as a method for innovation?

re: Redlac
Your post seems to suggest that progress is only good if we progress at a faster rate than the rest of the world. A new innovation improves the quality of life of Americans regardless of whether it is invented and/or manufactured here or somewhere else, for example China or India. You are falling into the same trap as Schlafly: namely, that one person's economic success comes at the expense of another. This simply isn't true.

Our so-called "innovation supremacy" is not threatened by immigration and free markets, but rather by excessive government intrusion. Nothing puts the kibosh on innovation like taxes and regulation.

re: 45caliber
Your stereotypical view of engineering (one apparently shared by Schlafly and many others) simply doesn't accurately model the real world. One of my comopany's biggest competitors now is an Indian company, and trust me, they are plenty innovative. Companies that depend on innovation are not going to hire workers who don't innovate, regardless of how inexpensive they might be.

The Brain Drain



America has been importing medical doctors since at least WWII. Most medical schools were put out of business by the government through school licensing boards, so there was such a shortage of American born doctors that we had to import foreign ones. Modernly,
fewer males are pursuing medical careers as pay, prestige, and working conditions erode, leaving room for more female and foreign doctors.

American born engineers are in short supply not for lack of engineering schools, but, as in medicine, for lack of adequate wages, job security, and working conditions. Engineering courses are ordinarily the toughest courses on campus. It takes the kind of brains and hard work that shut out the great majority of students, perhaps as high as 90%.

As an engineer, income and advancement will be limited by highly motivated foreigners who will work longer and harder at lower pay to stay in America long enough to have an anchor baby and bring all their relatives over.

The shortage of Americans in engineering has nothing to do with our education system, but rather, as with medicine, official government policy to encourage foreign workers by discouraging American born workers. America, particularly after the huge influx of Jews about 1900, has far more high IQ people than any other country. When we can no longer suck other countries of their talented people, or export jobs, pay and job security will rise ands there will be plenty of Americans to again go into engineering.

So by all means, let's suck in as many with advanced degrees as we can, while we can, but limit those who can be brought in to the immediate family. Intelligence runs in families, not races. While many foreign engineers may eventually return home, those who stay will leave the home countries permanently shorter on brains, and America enriched

As much as I usually agree with Schlafly
I always try to fill my programming positions with Americans first. However, it is almost impossible to find someone with real capabilities except by going to Asia or India. In addition, the Americans have incredibly inflated assessments of their own capabilities. Probably a result of our dumbed down public education system. I truly wish it was otherwise.
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