Townhall.com, Where Your Opinion Counts
Talk Radio:   Bill Bennett   Mike Gallagher   Dennis Prager   Michael Medved   Hugh Hewitt   
BREAKING NEWS  LeftArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican   RightArrow - Townhall.com : Conservative, Political, Republican  
Columns, funnies & more in your inbox!
  • Check the boxes and send us your email address to receveive your free newsletter
  • Your daily must-read of conservative columns, cartoons and news. Coulter, Sowell, Krauthammer and more.
  • Townhall.com’s weekly inside scoop on what’s happening behind the scenes in the world of politics. When news breaks, we report.
  • Signup to receive the latest daily Townhall cartoons
Monday, May 26, 2008
Phyllis Schlafly :: Townhall.com Columnist
A New Argument About Immigration
by Phyllis Schlafly
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
[+] Text [-]
 
Poll
Will Congress pass Obamacare by the end of the year?

Many arguments, pro and con, about how to deal with illegal aliens have been passionately debated over the past couple of years, but there are still other arguments that need public exposure. Mark Krikorian presents a new argument in his forthcoming book called "The New Case Against Immigration, Both Legal and Illegal."

The pro-more-immigration crowd argues that today's immigrants are just like immigrants of a century ago: poor people looking for a better life who are expected to advance in our land of opportunity. Krikorian's new argument is that while today's immigrants may be like earlier ones, the America they come to is so very different that our previous experience with immigrants is practically irrelevant.

The essential difference between the two waves of immigrants was best summed up by the Nobel Prize-winning advocate of a free market, Milton Friedman. He said, "It's just obvious that you can't have free immigration and a welfare state."

The term "welfare state" does not just mean handouts to the nonworking. Our welfare state encompasses dozens of social programs that provide benefits to the "working poor," i.e., people working for wages low enough that they pay little or no income taxes.

Immigrants of the previous generation were expected to earn their own living, pay taxes like everybody else, learn our language, love America and assimilate into our culture. Today's immigrants likewise come here for jobs not welfare.

During those prior major waves of immigration, the United States didn't have a welfare state. Native-born Americans survived the Great Depression of the 1930s without a welfare state.

The Social Security retirement system was established only in 1935. Most other agencies that redistribute cash and costly benefits from taxpayers to non-taxpayers started with Lyndon Johnson's Great Society in the late 1960s.

Today's low-wage immigrants and lower-wage illegals can't earn what it costs to live in modern America, so they supplement with means-tested taxpayer benefits. And many immigrants don't learn our language or assimilate into American culture because of the multicultural diversity taught in our schools and encouraged in our society.

Today's immigrants fit the profile of the people who benefit from our welfare state: the working poor with large families. Krikorian sets forth some dismal figures.

About 30 percent of all immigrants in the U.S. work force in 2005 lacked a high school education, which is four times the rate for native-born Americans. Among the largest group of working-age immigrants, the Mexicans, 62 percent have less than a high-school education, which means they work low-wage jobs. Nearly half of immigrant households, 45 percent, are in or near poverty compared with 29 percent of native-headed households. Among Mexicans living in the United States, nearly two-thirds live in or near the government's definition of poverty.

Costly social benefits provided to the working poor include Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (now called TANF, formerly AFDC), food stamps, school lunches, Medicaid, WIC (nutrition for Women, Infants and Children), public housing and Supplemental Security Income.

The Earned Income Tax Credit is one of the most expensive parts of income redistribution. Twice as many immigrant households (30 percent) qualify for this cash handout as native-headed households (15 percent).

Health care is another huge cost. Nearly half of immigrants are either uninsured or on Medicaid, which is nearly double the rate for native-born families. Federal law requires hospitals to treat all comers to emergency rooms, even if uninsured and unable to pay.

Hospitals try to shift the costs onto their paying patients, and when the hospitals exhaust their ability to do this, they close their doors. In Los Angeles, 60 hospitals have closed their emergency rooms over the past decade, which imposes another kind of cost.

Immigration accounts for nearly all the growth in elementary and secondary school enrollment over the past generation. The children of immigrants now comprise 19 percent of the school-age population and 21 percent of the preschool population.

The Heritage Foundation estimated that in order to reduce government payments to the average low-skill household to a level equal to the taxes it pays, "it would be necessary to eliminate Social Security and Medicare, all means-tested welfare, and to cut expenditures on public education roughly in half." Obviously, that is not going to happen.

Attempts to limit welfare eligibility for illegal aliens by provisions added to the 1996 welfare reform law, SSI, food stamps, Medicaid and TANF all failed. Krikorian concludes that "Walling immigrants off from government benefits once we've let them in is a fantasy."

As Americans are pinched between falling real estate values and the inflation of necessities such as gasoline, they are entitled to know how their tax dollars are being spent. The big bite that social benefits to immigrants (one-third of whom are illegal) takes out of taxpayers' paychecks should be factored into any debate about immigration or amnesty policy.

Share:
Vote on It:
Average Vote:
 
About The Author

Phyllis Schlafly is a national leader of the pro-family movement, a nationally syndicated columnist and author of Feminist Fantasies.
 
TOWNHALL DAILY: Be the first to read Phyllis Schlafly‘s column. Sign up today and receive Townhall.com daily lineup delivered each morning to your inbox.

Immigration by the Numbers
You will never view the issue of immigration the same again, legal or illegal.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265 &q=numbersusa&hl=en

To Joyyyy--
My wife and I just watched the immigration video that you posted. I think everyone who is concerned about immigration of all kinds should watch this video.

I believe that we are being sold out by our so called leaders with no end in sight.

Thanks for the video info.

B.N. Svara

Excellent ! *****
This is the best column I have seen on the issues that are most important to our country's survival.

Sadly, I see no person or group at the National level working to save us.

The two major political parties have done nothing to solve this dilemma.

Great Article Phyllis--
You hammered all these nails precisely on their heads. It's about being fed up with the situation we all see so clearly, yet our leaders are bound and determined to have a "mi casa, su casa" attitude. Even now, the democrats and some republicans are trying to figure out how to get amnesty forced down our throats again. Reagan agreed to amnesty for illegals with democrats in exchange they promised to secure the border. Twenty years later, we are still waiting for the fence the democrat congress reneged on.

I live in New Mexico, and we see an invasion here. Standing in line at the grocery store or the bank, fast food, etc. more than 50% of the people are Spanish-speaking only. They are not here to assimilate; they are here to reclaim the territory simply by occupying it in massive numbers. This is the quiet invasion of America; our leaders refuse to put up a fight to stop it. Why? What the illegals earn here and Western Union to Mexico is 1/3 of the Mexican economy! The idea that illegals working here is good for the American economy is a lie.

SVARA
Yes, and that doesn't even take into account ILLEGAL immigration. So combine that video with what Phyllis has written in this article and the scenario gets worse!




Goodbye USA
I too live in New Mexico. In the Wal-Marts, the TVs are showing videos in Spanish, announcements over the PA system are in Spanish, and more often than not conversations between the employees and customers are in Spanish as well.

At the ATMs, it's still Press One for English and Two for Spanish, and in the home improvement stores Spanish is still written below English on all the aisle signs, but I expect they will eventually reverse and put the English below.

The governor of the state, Bill Richardson, was born in Mexico City and acts like it. He has held rallies in front of the governor's mansion to address crowds of illegal immigrants and assure them that they have "rights" and he will see that they get them.

Albuquerque is a "sanctuary city" where police are forbidden to ask the nationality of lawbreakers, illegals are given driver's licenses and special accommodation at state schools, bilingual education is mandated in public schools so that children of illegals are taught in their own language, and the Democrats who run the state fight tooth-and-nail against voter identification.

I recently contracted by phone to have some roof work done, and not one member of the crew sent out to do the work spoke English. I could not communicate with them.

I took my elderly mother to a local hospital and found the emergency room jammed with Mexicans, and we had a long wait to see a doctor. When she was finally given a room, I saw Mexicans sleeping on the floors and sofas of the waiting rooms, and most of the hospital rooms seemed to be occupied by Mexicans.

New Mexico is practically Old Mexico now. Why don't we just redraw the border and be done with it? I intend to pack up and go back to the U.S.A. Or is there still a U.S.A.? Democrats and McCain seem determined to aid and abet this invasion by Mexico, which in any other time and place would be an act of war.

Trade sanctions
How about we loosen the trade sanctions against Mexican agricultural products. Then Mexicans can work in Mexican fields instead of American ones. I would say that it is a win-win for all of us.

No wait... I forgot... the farming lobby. They want profits to stay in the US.

Mrs. Schafly
This is one of the better articles I have seen written on this problem. For those who truly wish to see the depth and breadth of the problem in all of the aspects of our lives go to http://www.usillegalaliens.com. It is a long read that breaks the problem into segments dealing with healthcare, the economy, crime, education, and other relevant topics. You may wish to print it off to read it at your leisure. If you do, pass it along.

who cares about costs
when a liberals stance on an issue makes them feel morally superior?

thanks joyyy
go see the video. And vote!

Dobbs rips Obama over illegal...

The kicker is
Mexico has oil! Do you think our generosity gets us a discount? NO! Instead, Mexico makes further insulting demands upon our generosity. At the same time, Mexico treats immigrants trying to enter their southern border ruthlessly.

In Germany...
...you have to prove that you can financially support yourself (i.e. your own bank account, a job offer, etc.), before you receive a residency permit, so that you do not become a burden on the state. And, if I remember correctly, one does not qualify for any "welfare" benefits for at least 5 years.

Why not something similar here?

traitorbill
Do we even get a huge discount, or any, on Iraqi oil, from the sacrifice we have made?

I agree with you on Mexico.

Excellent article by Schlafly
The link from Joyyyy was also outstanding.

Who was instrumental in putting this whole debacle into motion was Ted Kennedy, and his Immigration Reform Act of 1965.

Since then, all administrations, Democrat and Republican, have pursued immigration policies that have damaged our nation.

We should encourage immigrants who possess superior educational and technical qualifications, instead of severely limiting them. They number in the few hundreds of thousands...persons with Ph'ds in the hard sciences, for example.

We must abolish the insane policy of welcoming in multitudes of the world's poor, destitute, unskilled, uneducated.


Racists, racists, racists!!!
There I just had to get that out there. After all anyone who has the gumption to speak negatively about immigration MUST be a racist. There is just no other way to describe someone that would want to take an analytic look at this subject and find out that perhaps the numbers don't add up. Remember immigration is good! There can simply be no other way so don't try to think logically and analytically on this subject or else you are a Racist!!!















new america
the arguement that the america this new brand iof immigrants is coming to is so differnent that it might be another reason to deny them citizenship. is correct. they didnt have a Phyllis schlafly tom be concerned with. youd be surprised how many have said they were coming and then found out about her and dedided to go back to poverty on the old farm. she may be one of the best edefenses against illegal immigration we have. put her in charge of INS, publicize tit and watch what happens. first all INS agents would have to find a way to hold whatever is in their stomach down.

meg
They are, for the most part, learning our language, and to be truthful, the immigrants in earlier times didn't always learn the new language all the time. (Most Americans still don't speak Algonquin)

It wasn't until WWII that many Italian immigrants, who lived in exclusively in Italian neighborhoods and didn't have to learn English, finally did so.

Well Don Schlafly AND JOYYY
A very effective speech and on the mark. Who didn't know this? Libs, Demos, and Repubs. Vote for "None of the above."

Good points but...
None of these issues are new to those of us who already knew the drain that illegal aliens placed on our society, taxpayers and social services.

Liberals are just too stupid to realize this or just don't care. Either way, their minds will never be changed. Politicians realize what's happening, but have decided that pandering to Hispanics is more important than getting them out of the country and honoring their oaths.

We already know the number...75 - 80% of Americans want them out. It's up to that vast majority to throw out any bums in Congress that resist the will of the people.

Krikorian
Anyone interested in a serious discussion of the immigrant problem should watch this video.

http://www.charlierose.com/guests/mark-krikorian

END ALL IMMIGRATION--
This is a great piece and should arm anybody with even half-a-brain with every argument they need to talk about this Immigration Catastrophe that we face in this country. The reason none of these gutless current-day politicians running for president will discuss it is because they are all complicit and partly the cause for the catastrophe to begin with. All the so-called "front-runners" are AKA U.S. Senators, and it is the Congresses fault for this current mess as they payoff their contributors and they have made laws and are encouraging more legislation that not only Keeps the Already Illegals we have but proposes More of Them. This Is The MOST IMPORTANT SINGLE PROBLEM THIS COUNTRY FACES. WE CANNOT EVEN CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE CURRENT WELFARE STATE WHICH CREATED THE NEED FOR IMPORTING WORKER'S TO DO LABOR WORK TO BEGIN WITH BECAUSE THE WELFARE STATE, WHICH WAS CREATED AND STARTED BY LBJ, ANOTHER DISHONEST SOCIALIST, AND HAS BEEN EXPANDED EVER SINCE, HAS TAKEN AWAY THE UNSKILLED WORK BASE WHO CAN RECEIVE MORE REAL MONEY AND BENEFITS BY SITTING HOME AND WAITING AROUND THE MAIL BOX FOR WELFARE CHECKS, FOOD STAMP CREDIT CARDS, WHICH TAXPAYERS HAVE TO PAY, FREE MEDICAL AND OTHER BENEFITS. WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO WORK IF THEY CAN RECEIVE MORE THAN THE AVERAGE UNSKILLED WORKER FOR DOING NOTHING.

Does Anyone Trust McCain?

Team McCain: Immigration statement poorly worded

Hotair-Jim Geraghty reached out to the John McCain campaign to ask them …. well, to ask them what the hell John McCain was thinking yesterday. Instead of dancing around it, Geraghty’s source acknowledged the damage done by the statement, but insisted it was just an example of poor wording. Their commitment to border security first has not changed, they said:

I doubt this will mitigate the anger of bloggers like John Hawkins much, but Team McCain tells me there’s been no change in his stance on immigration — secure the border first, deal with other aspects of illegal immigration once the border is secure. Recently, McCain made comments that seemed to suggest he was eager to get to the second part, which conservatives and border security types are understandably wary about. ….

read more

http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/illegal-immigrants -defend-america

Oh Well
When the institutions of the "great society" collapses under the sheer numbers game from the illegal invaders, perhaps someone will get the message that this foolishness in policy can no longer be sustained.

Solution
Encamp them across the street from all congressmen and women, hollywood bleeding-hearts, socialites who breathe the rarified air and any other do-gooders who just don't get it. It wouldn't last a week. The trash starts to blow, the refrigerator- sized speakers in the rear end of their cars will shatter their serenity and the sight of the little ones peeing in the bushes, not to mention Grandpa, likewise, will bring the whole scene into perspective for the unbelieving.

Not a new agument
Mark Krikorian’s argument is not new… but it is a powerful argument that gets at a major core danger of immigration, and especially low-skill immigrants.

The “diversity” movement has almost completely disarmed American society’s ability to protect and promote itself. A large part of the government funded cultural education in this country actually focuses on our flaws and not the positive traits that make America great.

An evolving / improving / and growing society needs to recognize its mistakes. But when teaching our young we need to present the mistake along with how this great country fixed the issue…. And even more importantly, present it in the context world and history.

Slavery is a good example. We can either wallow in the self-loathing disgust of slavery, or recognize that America was among the leading nations in eradicating slavery… and that black Africans were active participants in the slave trade, not just victims. Taking the larger view shows that America strayed from her principles, learned her lesson, fixed the problem, and then moved on to become a better country.

The economic strategy view is also very important. Now that global commerce and competition has fully taken root, American’s are competing head-to-head across the board. Do we really want large numbers of our citizens competing with workers in other countries that get paid a few dollars per day? If we do not want American standards of living and international influence to shrink, we need to stay near the front of innovation and applying capital and higher skilled labor in an entrepreneurial environment.

Solving our hamburger flipping and gardening problems are easy… staying in high productivity and high margin businesses is a continuous difficult struggle.

Welfare Nation
No Blanket Amnesty, No Blank Checks for Illegal Immigrants.

Seal all Borders. Free Ramos and Compean for doing their jobs fighting Illegal Immigration and Illegal Drug Smuggling.They are hero's.

Jail Johnny Sutton (D-Texas), Prosecutor for false imprisionment of Ramos and Compean

old1
Just who do you think hires all these millions of immigrants? Not hollywood, the one who wold be out of luck would be the people who make more money hiring them. Most American businesses that can have already moved to Mexico or China to get cheap labor. The ones that can't as easily, hire illegals. You can't even buy blue jeans here anymore.

"American jeans used to mean Levi, Wrangler, and Lee, to name a few. Today, Levi jeans are made overseas. Wrangler and Lee brands are owned by VF Corporation, which also owns Chic Jeans, Riders, and Rustler brands. VF Corp. has manufacturing plants located in the United States, as well as other parts of the world. So, while MAY be possible to find a pair of Wrangler or Lee jeans made in USA, it’s a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack. Likewise, jeans made for LLBean, Landsend, and the GAP are imported."

old1
You're vignette made me laugh out loud until I realized the inherent truth and reality of the scene you depicted.

Just like the posters above relating scenes of what used to be America in New Mexico and now lost to an invading army of Latin Americans the libs will try to tell us that this wave of immigration is no different than the past and that everyone is learning English and assimilitaing just as before. Only all of these declarations and studies are completely contradicted by what we see in everygday life -- everyday increasing islands of the 3rd world that have taken over what used to be America. These islands of the 3rd World are not coming back to our country -- they're virtually lost forever. Prima uno para Espanol, Press two for English.

Its called
the lowest common denominator. This will lower not raise the average standard of living significantly. Of course the fat cats wont be affected. You know those that use the cheap labor and the traitors that enable them.

More science, fewer law & MBA, grads.
We should not end all immigration.

But we must DRASTICALLY limit the absolute numbers of immigrants, and we must DRASTICALLY alter the mix, or type, of immigrant we admit.

Examine the ethnic makeup and national background of students in our graduate programs in the hard sciences at our universities today.

At least 70% socalled "foreign".

Our own "native-born" students either lack the aptitude, intellectual ability, or necessary educational backgrounds in science and mathematics to enable them to enter these programs...electing instead to pursue degrees in law or business administration(MBAs).

Even Bill Gates has repeatedly implored congress to allow more highly educated persons from abroad to meet this glaring need for r&d in telecommunication and computer related fields.

Companies are either moving operations abroad(where the pool of talent is not comprised mostly of law and business graduates), or struggling to find qualified engineers here.

It also is true some companies are moving abroad due to cheaper priced engineers.

But even so, the statistics do not lie.

Our graduate programs consist of overwhelming numbers of "foreigners" in the hard sciences, and in engineering.

That is what we must change. We need to interest more of our own students to pursue these disciplines.

MBA or law degrees won't cut it.

Net tax payers all!
We need to develop a cultural ethic that glorifies being a producer… a net tax payer… being independent… being responsible…

It seems to me that over the past 30 years or so, we have developed a perverse cultural tendency to glorify failure and dysfunction.

Compassion is a necessary value, but I think we have distorted its meaning horribly. Compassion is not encouraging and enabling mistakes, it is not rewarding failure, it is not isolating people from the consequences of bad decisions.

How is it that “the poor” and poverty seems to have been a badge of honor? We are in a country with free education, and a vibrant economy (the unemployment rate for skilled people today is still extremely low), with no restrictions on travel to be near the opportunities. To achieve poverty in the US a person usually needs to make a consistent string of bad decisions for several years.

End Immigration Now!!!!!!!!
And we are currently, as we speak, TEN TRILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT, as a nation. No nation in the world has ever had this much debt, and these worthless so-called leaders of this country, are promising to give even more money away, WHICH WE DO NOT HAVE.

Now, beyond the monetary costs. Where are most of these Illegal Invaders coming from"? South of the border. Does anybody remember the 1980's? Does anybody remember Elsalvador, Nicaragua, and other nations that were having communist revolutions and their churches were all teaching Liberation Theologies, which is Marxism masked by the church. Does everybody is this idiot government believe that all these good little unskilled or skilled workers are docile? If they do, they better go to the nearest shrink and be examined for sanity.

End All Immigration Now (continued)
Has anybody heard of the MS-13 gangs coming here and taking over the inner city streets with their violence, drug dealings, murders, etc.? These south of the border thugs even make our homegrown thugs, who are products of the welfare state, scared to go on the streets that they used to reign supreme with their own brand of illegal activities, and terror. We need to end all newcomers having an open door to enter this country with no barriers. Then, we need to begin rounding them up if they are here illegally and send them back with whatever means necessary. Then, we need to end the visas from so-called guests, and all the rest. After they are all out of the country, then we can set about building borders again. A nation is defined by common borders, language, culture, traditions, values and loyalty to these things. None of this is being practiced by these invaders, and in fact, we are becoming a third world country ourselves. END ALL IMMIGRATION NOW, AND GET THE ONES ALREADY HERE OUT. I know if this government is able to control where this writer smokes a cigarette and enforce that law with an Iron Fist, it could police this problem. They do not do it because they profit too much themselves from the payoffs they received from contributors who profiteer from the illegals. Employers pass on the costs of hiring workers and giving them benefits by letting You and Me, the Taxpayer, pasy for their health care, and other costs associated with having employees. And the illegals do not pay other taxes that the American worker has to pay. GREED IS Behind This Mess. Just FOLLOW THE MONEY TRAIL>>>>

Plain and Simple
Believe it or not- There are a lot of democrats who would vote for any candidate that wanted to stop the immigration and illegal problem that is draining our Country.They have to make the message plain and simple-Are you tired of losing jobs to illegals- VOTE for ME--Are You Tired of Rising healthcare- because theirs is Free--Vote for Me-- Are You tired of rising Auto Insurance- because you are in a wreck by an unisured motorist, or had your vehichle stolen and either chopped up or rushed down to Mexico- Vote for me--Are you tired of rising SCHOOL TAXES- because of Free Lunches, having to hire bilingual Teachers, and print everything in English and Spanish--Vote for me--Are you the least bit SCARED your PARTY is going to RAISE your TAXES and use it TO ACCOMMODATE, the never ending influx of Illegals-VOTE FOR ME.
Are You sick of the Drug Lords, Car Jackings, and gangs that are destroying our border cities--VOTE FOR ME!! Yes, Richardson is from New Mexico- ONE OF OUR POOREST STATES, YOU CAN BUY LIQUOR AT JUST ABOUT ANY GAS STATION, ILLEGALS CAN GET DRIVERS LISCENSE, AND HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST DUI AND AUTO FATALITIES IN THE USA!! Are You Sick of having the MEXICAN FLAG shoved in your face and ALL of the above--VOTE FOR ME--PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!

M's 8:13 post
I found your assertion Johnny Sutton was a Democrat, interesting.

Having researched it some, I found the following.

George W. Bush nominated Johnny Sutton at federal attorney back in Oct. 2001.

Would he nominate a Democrat?

Prior to becoming United States Attorney, Mr. Sutton served as an Associate Deputy Attorney General at the U.S. Department of Justice in Washington, D.C., and as a Policy Coordinator for the Bush-Cheney Transition Team assigned to the Department of Justice.


Mr. Sutton served as the Criminal Justice Policy Director for then-Governor George W. Bush from 1995-2000, advising the Governor on all criminal justice issues, with specific oversight in the areas of criminal law, prison capacity and management, parole operations and legislative initiatives.

Are you sure he is a Democrat?

He jsut might be a good ol' G.W. Bush buddy..

Nothing really new in Krikorian's book.
There have been great books written about immigration before now. The elitist just don't want to know. "Who Are We", by Samuel P. Huntington (2004), is a must read. Of course, Peter Brimlow wrote the definitive book on immigration; "Alien Nation" in 1995. He was immediately condemed as a racist.

Loosing jobs
Fact; Corporations are moving out of America and taking to Mexico thousands of good jobs. The Lincoln, Nebraska Goodyear tire plant is moving much of there jobs straight to Mexico.

Fact;" Obama cosponsored the Patriot Corporation Act, which gives corporations the financial incentive to act for the good of the nation. Unlike citizens, big corporations lack the personal ethics and patriotism of their human founders. "

Fact; Millions of Americans won't vote for Obama because they think he's a Muslim or because they read faked e-mails about him.

Meg
Subject: immigrants today want free handouts
Years ago Immigrants came to Make a better life, they learned English, they worked , they paid Taxes , they didn't get or expect free medical or for American tax payers to give them a Free Ride.
***********


I do not think the “immigrants want handouts” argument is productive. 1) it is probably not very true, and 2) it is not very effective.

The more accurate and effective argument is that welfare state system under which new immigrants live, encourages dependency and undermines responsibility. How can we expect low skill and low wage immigrants to resist the temptation of freebees and dependency?

I think the majority of immigrants want to be productive and independent.

A disproportionate number of low-skill immigrants will succumb to the addiction of government freebees. Our system can be dangerous to people with low-skills / low-productivity. Do we really want to add more people to our durable underclass?

Our system has developed a robust grievance ethic. Instead of moving on… we encourage people to form factions and special interest groups. The game is no longer “where can I apply my value and get what I want”. The game today is “how can I extract the most out of the system with the least effort”… the system tells me I can’t survive on my own; I need my special grievance group and the system to survive.

If we had a “sink-or-swim” and “consume what you earn” and “the productive class sets the rules and defines the culture” ethic in America, I would be much less concerned about immigration.


to Sammy's Ideas of a Racist
Racists, racists, racists!!!
There I just had to get that out there. After all anyone who has the gumption to speak negatively about immigration MUST be a racist. There is just no other way to describe someone that would want to take an analytic look at this subject and find out that perhaps the numbers don't add up. Remember immigration is good! There can simply be no other way so don't try to think logically and analytically on this subject or else you are a Racist!!!

HISTORY/FACT/CONDITIONS: I am a legal immigrant who came here after the war. 1) we had to have a sponsor who was responsible for us...fed,house,clothed us and then found us a job to get us off their back. 2) We were not allowed any social services so as not to be a burden upon American citizens. 3) we took whatever job we could to feed us, clothe us,pay our own rent. 4) There were no bi-lingual services so we relied on friends as translators.

AND GUESS WHAT??? We did more than survive, WE MADE IT!! BECAUSE WE HAD TO. True we lived with just the essentials and we had no luxurious items that we couldn't afford to pay for ourselves...BUT WE WERE HAPPY...there was food on the table and we had clothes on our back.....PAID FOR BY OURSELVES!!!

WHAT's WRONG WITH BEING SELF-SUFFICIENT???

the problem with todays immigrants is that they know that we the tax payers are gonna pick up the tab for everything....whereas I cannot afford health care for myself and need dental work badly, I do without so that a legal, or worse yet, an illegal can have that taken care of thanks to yours truly.

NO, Sammy, I don't think I'm being racist when I say I don't want to provide those things to others when I cannot even provide for myself....

MOTTO: EQUALITY FOR ALL...LEARN TO DO WITHOUT AS I AM FORCED TO DO.

I don't get it
I simply don't understand how most Americans just don't understand what the illegal immigrant situation in this country is doing to THEIR country. Even Average Joe who only watches the evening news has to see what is happening. We, as Americans, have got to figure out how to send a concise, unified message to D.C that we are sick and tired of the situation, and that we are holding them accountable for their support. I think Roy @ Numbers USA is on the right track!

taft
Loosing jobs
Fact; Corporations are moving out of America and taking to Mexico thousands of good jobs. The Lincoln, Nebraska Goodyear tire plant is moving much of there jobs straight to Mexico.
***********

And Mexico is losing jobs to China. We are in a global competition. We cannot compete with low-skill and low productivity labor.

We already have plenty of people with poor educations and low productivity... we do not need to import them.

Truth Spoken
by my fellow American JohnnyP....very, very good insight on YOUR part! (will not win you any "diversity" awards though, but WHO CARES RIGHT?)

"Slavery is a good example. We can either wallow in the self-loathing disgust of slavery, or recognize that America was among the leading nations in eradicating slavery - and that BLACK AFRICANS WERE ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS IN THE SLAVE TRADE, NOT JUST VICTIMS. Taking the larger view shows that America strayed from her principles, learned her lesson, fixed the problem, and then moved on to become a better country."

johnnyp
The way the arguement is not effective is that it does not fit your perception.

The latest attempt to
sneak amnesty into the war funding bill by Diane Feinstein and a few others was a response to the blues being sung by farmers who are finding it difficult to bring in their crops without immigrant low wage help.

I would prefere as consumers, we pay home grown workers a real wage and quit paying the indirect cost, financially, culturally, and legally, through public assistance programs. With proper wages for the home grown worker, we could control our borders, respect our laws, and have workers who pledge their allegiance to this country first.

No, John Konop...
... I don't trust McCain. Or the GOP in general.
McCain insists his immigration reform is NOT amnesty. The 75-80% of Americans who see that it is PLAINLY an AMNESTY plan get ignored or called stupid since we can't see it HIS way. His elitist, paternalistic and condecending attitude just endears him to me. I love being a peasant, especially when I can enjoy getting splashed by chamberpot goodies thrown from the castle on captiol hill. Our lords take SUCH good care of us. We should be grateful for being allowed to keep a portion of our harvest, too. Our betters don't take THAT much, and besides THEY know better than we what to do with the fruits of our labor. Don't they?

ha
AND GUESS WHAT??? We did more than survive, WE MADE IT!! BECAUSE WE HAD TO. True we lived with just the essentials and we had no luxurious items that we couldn't afford to pay for ourselves...BUT WE WERE HAPPY...there was food on the table and we had clothes on our back.....PAID FOR BY OURSELVES!!!

WHAT's WRONG WITH BEING SELF-SUFFICIENT???
******************

Congratulations!

My brother and I debate policy issues frequently. One of things we are very thankful for is that our ancestors did not come to the US in the time of the welfare state. The probability of both of us having master’s degrees and owning homes would be much lower if our family would have been exposed to the heroin-like social welfare system.

Oddly, a helping hand can be a very dangerous thing. We do it to our poor through government transfers and services. We do it through coddling middle and upper-middle class children. Sometimes the best thing to do is let someone fail and learn on their own. The risk of failure and failure itself is a great teacher, conscience, and cleanser of ideas and approaches.

As Thomas Sowell points out... it is an awfully curious situation when the rate of economic improvement for blacks went flat after the Great Society and Civil Rights act.


Bobby
Elaborate?

what Middle America thinks
re:
"I simply don't understand how most Americans just don't understand what the illegal immigrant situation in this country is doing to THEIR country."

The general public overwhelmingly favors REAL immigration reform (BUT not Scamnesty posing as "C.I.R."). Poll after poll shows that Americans want well-enforced, sensible, and sustainable LEGAL immigration of the educated and skilled who can be positive contributors on balance, NOT the tsunami of ILLEGAL aliens.

* 89% of Americans think ILLEGAL immigration into the U.S. is a problem (30% "extremely serious," 33% "very serious," and 26% "somewhat serious." (Time Magazine, 2006)

* 82% think that not enough is being done along the borders to keep illegal aliens from crossing into the country. (New York Times/CBS 2007)

* 68% feel that the number who cross the border, whether legal or illegal is “too high”. (Polling Company, 2006)

* 62% oppose making it easier for ILLEGAL immigrants to become citizens of America. (Quinnipiac Univ., Feb. 2006)

*71% believe that ILLEGAL immigrants should not qualify for in-state tuition rates at college and universities.

*77% oppose making drivers' licenses available to ILLEGAL aliens.

*71% favor requiring foreign visitors to carry universal I.D. card.

*77% say that employers can require English-only on the job, and 89% favor making it the official/only language of government

The PC ilk, the MSM, ethnocentric Hispanic groups, and the open borders, globalist, miscreant employer types barrage us with disingenuous info, but Middle America IS righteously indignant about ILLEGALS. If not stopped and reversed soon, we will LOSE America. See how YOU can get engaged TODAY just below!

-
-

Phyllis (Ugh!) and her ilk
I can't believe Phyllis is still kicking! Ugh. I recall in Tulsa OK when she was invited to the community college I attended. I'd just moved back from New Mexico and in comparison to the excellent speakers UNM presented, Phyllis was a real let down. By the way, New Mexico has always had Spanish speakers, remember? As for you others, get your lazy kids off the computer and let them cut the grass so they can learn how to pick fruits and veggies in the fields since you won't do it. And you don't want illegals doing it? BTW, wages do have to be kept at a certain level for some companies to remain competitive and in business.

immigration
What I cannot figure out,is why if we only need 12 to 14 million workers for the various jobs americans won't do,why in the hell do we need another 12 to 14 million the next year and the year after that.According to the experts (so called)we have no jobs that need to be filled.Am I to believe that the agriculture groups apple growers peach growers etc.are growing so fast that they need all that help.Hell no people these illegals are taking jobs that our own people could do,but they won't do it as cheap.

How much do they cost us? Part. 1

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments. http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis..org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

Okay Okay
"Sit down and shut up"! That is what the Repub & Dem candidates are telling us. Okay, I'm not shutting up, but I will not waste my time going to the voting booth anymore. We the people have not had a say in who our Prez will be for decades now. Why on earth do you think GWB ignored our outcries about securing the border? It's all about the NAU and the global economy and the big money fellows. It's not about what is best for the citizens of the USA. If you can get a hold of a copy of "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" by Gary Allen, it will document with photos and diaries that we, the people/citizens, have not had our say in our government since the 1920s. It was published in 1978, but because it sold over a million copies, you might find a copy somewhere. Otherwise continue to bleat like a sheep and go vote. None of them care what you think or want.

to LOCO in MI
"I would prefere as consumers, we pay home grown workers a real wage and quit paying the indirect cost, financially, culturally, and legally, through public assistance programs. With proper wages for the home grown worker, we could control our borders, respect our laws, and have workers who pledge their allegiance to this country first."

IF, illegal immigrants came here to make a better life for themselves, and came here honestly to get jobs, then why aren't they working?

Why are politicians, pro-amnesty groups etc saying we need to allow more in?

ARE ALL 12 to 20 illegal immigrants working???already employed?????

I WOULD PREFER that we OFFER ALL THOSE JOBS TO THOSE ILLEGALS WHO ARE ALREADY HERE and take them OFF THE DOLE!!


In a video put out by ...
Roy Beck with NumbersUSA, I learned that the rate for LEGAL immigration today is 1Million per year. If you only consider the legal immigrants coming to America and the rates at which they reproduce and compare that with the rate that America reproduces, you will discover that this country will look totally different within one or two generations.

When you add in the illegal immigrants and their offspring and couple that with the strain on social services, education and welfare, it becomes very apparent that if we keep going in this direction America cannot sustain the economic standards that today's youth take for granted and demand.

At some point the cupboard will be bare and the lifestyle we have will not be available for future generations of Americans.

But hey, they will still have the pristine beauty of ANWR so maybe they won't hate us too much for destroying their futures, huh?

How much do they cost us? Part. 2

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for welfare & social services by American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by illegal aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. Illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to create a huge additional crime problem in the US .
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border; also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border.
Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.co m/general75/niht.htm

14. “The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.”
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html

Millions won't vote for Obama...
"Millions wont' vote for Obama because they think he's a Muslim..."

I don't know about millions of people thinking he's a Muslim. That sounds a bit exaggerated. I don't know about any fake e-mails being read by millions of registered voters either.

I do know I will not vote for him, but not for the reasons you state. Rather because he's an anti-american, inexperienced, liberal, race pandering, idiot.

YOU can get involved: SAVE America!

Join the sacred fight now to save America! Time is short! Any ILLEGAL alien (including visa violators) who works here is automatically committing multiple felonies, not to mention the pandemic social pathologies which permeate with them like the Black Death. It is NOT the obligation of American society and taxpayers to bail out corrupt and failed plutocratic Latin American governments by providing employment and social welfare for their myriad, ignorant indigent, culturally disparate.

America CANNOT AFFORD this so-called "cheap" labor, which actually benefits only the relative few miscreant employers. A hotel room or head of lettuce is NO CHEAPER to the consumer as a result of ILLEGAL alien labor. When the feds make their "show raids" on miscreant employers such as meat processing plants, Americans (often the LEGAL workers previously displaced) usually refill the jobs IMMEDIATELY. ILLEGALS are NOT the Pedro to rob to pay American Paul his rightly-earned S.S. which the govt. has already squandered-- they represent instead "the mother of all unfunded government mandates" if we naturalize them.

What exactly are ILLEGAL aliens "entitled to" from American society? One side likes to proffer inane apologia and prattle such as, "border crossing is a minor transgression akin to jaywalking," or, "they are just trying to feed their families," or "they are just doing those jobs Americans won't do," or "America needs their cheap labor." ALL of these are willful, vacuous, disingenuous red herring dodges!

Just below are the official contact sites for Congress... a few clicks, and you can EASILY send e-mails. Even easier--> NumbersUSA gives you FREE, prepared e-mails to send, and even targets your people in Congress for you. BOOKMARK THESE, and get engaged today!

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet

Angie
I agree with you on one item; the US public does need to begin again to do their own yard work! It would help the kids and adults with the fitness issue (not to mention help the kids with work ethics), get people outside and associating with their neighbors more, help domestic companies who produce the tools and machinery required (I hope their are still US manufacturers in this area), and end this "draw" to the INVADERS of our nation.
I can say one thing about the pro-INVASION forces; their mantra of labor intensive agri-business requiring the INVASION in order to hold prices down is pure B.S. One needs only go into a grocer and see the prices and look closely at the ID labeling telling one that the produce came from Chili or Mexico or some other foreign land!
oh, and just for the record, the Liberals are not stupid; the anarchists and social/marxists who run the Liberal forces in this country (and now the Democrat Party some rubes are voting for thinking in places like Miss they are electing conservative "dixiecrats" who will make a difference) have had a plan to bring down this nation since after WW2. Once small in numbers, these people have spread their cause like a cancer into every defining area of American life, inclusive of the educational system and the propaganda mediums and the ranks both major politcal parties.

We have two tried and true solutions
[1] Build the fence we were promised. Crime dropped 80% in San Diego as soon as their segment went up. [2] Dry up the jobs. Mexicans self-deport when they can't get work. All this crap about having to deport millions of illegals is a dodge. Where the jobs have disappeared, the Mexicans not only go home,but tell their friends not to go to America. Neither one of these solutions cost any more more money than has already been appropriated. We have allowed a corps of enablers (i.e. liberals) to give away our way of life.

today's immigration is liberalism...
Today, much of immigration is pure liberalism (small "l"). Democrats want a new dependent class of constituente. Doesn't matter if they don't speak English or if they ever will.

The elites in DC and around the world want to dissolve nations and make everyone a "citizen of the world". I disagree with that strongly but it seems to be happening.

How to get rid of illegals
Liberals in Congress say that we’re in a recession and that we’re losing jobs. Their solution for this is to give amnesty to 20 million illegal aliens so they can hold jobs needed by American citizens. We can get rid of all of them.

Develop a website called “Illegal Aliens” in which we document them in every way. Anyone on this website would be prohibited from receiving any benefits such as visas for citizenship.

Have ICE announce in English and Spanish that, in fifteen days, they will begin paying a bounty to any American citizen for each and every illegal alien they turn in.

Bring home our soldiers and equipment from FDR’s War. Have the infantry round up and deport the millions of illegal aliens. Have our tanks and helicopters patrol our borders. Have the Army Engineers build the wall along our border. Fund this with the billions of dollars presently paid out to protect Germany.

Enforce existing law, and deport all illegal aliens arrested by police in all levels of government. Deprive illegal aliens of jobs and homes. Fine and imprison persons who hire illegal aliens. Fine and imprison persons who rent homes to illegal aliens.

Make Spanish-language radio and TV broadcasts and ads in newspapers saying, “Mexican illegal aliens, Go Home. Return to your homeland and make it your own. Use the money received from oil sales and other sources to build schools to educate your children and provide jobs. American entrepreneurs will help you set up businesses and provide jobs for your people. There are millions of you. Go home and make Mexico the place where you want to live and work.”

Good article
From the article: "it would be necessary to eliminate Social Security and Medicare, all means-tested welfare, and to cut expenditures on public education roughly in half. Obviously, that is not going to happen."

Too bad.

Reminds me of the brilliant policy in San Francisco several years ago, where they started handing out cash to the homeless. Before they knew it, they were overrun with homeless.

ILLEGALS and social service enervation

It is against the law for ILLEGAL aliens to receive welfare per se. Still, they overwhelm hospitals and schools, and overburden criminal justice, and the federal government REQUIRES that local service providers assist them at local expense. Then there is the issue of "anchor babies"... once an ILLEGAL madre can push one out on American soil, they get in the welfare line, and the ride on the welfare gravy train is on!

More to the point, ANY resident who is uneducated and poor inexorably becomes a welfare burden on average, partly because today's advanced service economy America cannot provide them upward mobility when all they have to offer is manual labor. The highly respected Heritage Foundation calculates that EACH household headed by the typical ignorant, indigent ILLEGAL alien will drain $1.4 MILLION more in govt. services than it ever pays in any form of taxes over a lifetime. This is aggravated further by clinging to a foreign language and disparate culture.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg1936.cfm
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/SR14es.cfm
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigrati on_american_infrastructure.html
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265 &q=immigration

As even a liberal sociologist admitted recently, future drains by current ILLEGALS will prove to be, "the mother of all unfunded government mandates." The libs do not care about this; they know that current ILLEGALS mean future voters and the permanent hegemony of the left as America morphs ineluctably into a third world welfare state. Visa violators account for about 20% of ILLEGAL aliens; we MUST crack down on them also.

See below what YOU can do to stanch this barrio blight and culture decimation from destroying America.


as for Spanish being spoken in NM
for a long time.
I don't know anyone who disputes that Hispanics were present in NM since the greater Southwest was added in the 1800s, but these people learned English and assimilated and provged patriotic and in the case of those who became US citizens as a result of the USA acquiring the Greater Southwest, became very greatful to be US citizens as opposed to being citizens of Mexico, and all I know personally OPPOSE the INVASION across our southern border.
As for Texas, Juan Abamillo, Juan A. Badillo, Carlos Espalier, Gregorio Esparza, Antonio Fuentes, José María Guerrero, Damacio Jimenes (Ximenes), Toribio Losoya, and Andrés Nava all died at the Alamo fighting against Mexico for Texas Independence (there were many Tejanos who fought for Texas Independence), but again I'll state flatly that the descendants of these Tejanos and the vast majority of those from older Tejanos families of whom I am acquainted OPPOSE the INVASION of this nation being conducted across our southern border.

johnnyp
Your posts are cogent and logical, and take the big picture view, something often missing in discussion of hot-button issues. You said it all, much better than I could.

Is this my Imagination...?????
Or is it the pain pills Iam taking? Somebody tell me the 3 existing candidates are against Illegal Immigration!!
Laraza..and Juan McCain..!!!!
Somebody tell me Iam having Nightmare!!It's not
real,right!
Lets see...Mitt wouldn't allow Illegals to have drivers license, Duncan is against Illegals,
Tancredo was against it..so one of these guys is the candidate...right!??
elvis

European AmericA
European Americans have a right to decide how they will live, and that an eventual geographic separation is necessary for the preservation of ALL unique cultures and values. Our fundamental interest should be what most benefits European Americans as a people, and the preservation of our genes and our lands is undoubtedly in our best interest.

Listen: http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=4196



Joyyyy's video recommendation
Joyyy that was a great video on youtube.com. Anyone who has time should go to the link on Joyyyy's comment.

OK! you asked for it.
I am a Constitutionalist! I will not apologize! I will not back down and I will not quit.
Lest you think I am a "Racist" I would just like to remind you of some history. These are facts Not Racist!
Cheap labor was forced on the 13 Colonies by King George of England. The Colonies voted against having slaves but they got outruled. So then, after the South purchased the slaves, sold to them by the North (they came in through New York and Boston) then someone called abolitionists, decided this was wrong and decided to attack their fellow Americans and free the slaves(headed by America's first Caesar Abraham Lincoln)
After 650,000 Americans lost their lives (both North and South)the thirty Seven States made an amendment (the 13th)to the Constitution to declare them free.
Then they decided to let the Negro vote. The South was against that. (not because they wanted to refuse him the privilege, but because the majority of the Slaves had been in the Cotton Fields and were not educated enough yet to vote.
But did that matter to the Republicans in Congress of 1866? No they just wanted them to vote for the Republican Party.
To sum it all up once again the Constitution was by passed, the 10 Southens states were refused a seat in Congress (violation of Aricle V) and once again at gun point The Southern Americans' governments were abolished and puppet governments were set up of Scalawags, Carpet baggers and uneducated slaves with the promise of political office if they would vote for the 14th Amendment.
Why did I say all of this? Because we now have people in our government who see the value of Slavery (I don't) and as they can no longer go back to the Slaves of yesteryear, the nearest that they can get to it is illegals that they can pay a cheaper wage. Not to mention the rest of us Americans who are asked to contribute to the illegal slaves with education, health benifits and welfare.

Apology
I apologize for the spelling in my comments of "OK" you asked for it. I forgot to proof read before I submitted.

Can we deport 20 million?

re:
"... most of the 20 million aren't going anyplace so at some point, yes, you are
going to have to normalize them."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


This is the great false problem/mythical challenge. We CAN achieve attritive repatriation following some reasonable attempt at enforcement, which probably will require Real I.D., notwithstanding libertarian objections. Other countries (including Mexico!) think it is ludicrous how lax we have been about enforcement. Israel, e.g., would not begin to tolerate our government's willful folly. ILLEGAL aliens essentially swarm to the most accommodating places... we need to reverse that message. Arizona passed (with almost 50% of the LEGAL hispanic vote) several tough new anti-ILLEGAL laws which are resulting in their leaving the state.

No ILLEGAL alien need be naturalized unless WE choose to do so. It is unfair to so many deserving people who wish to emigrate here legally and properly to allow these lawbreaking interlopers any special breaks. Border jumping is just the first of many laws they break, most of which are felonies prima facie.

See posts to follow to see what YOU can do to save YOUR country from the ILLEGAL alien incursion. Get engaged while we still have a little time!

lodestar
Wouldn't it be easier to have another sort of guest-worker program. Both the illegals and the US public would benefit. From what I've read, the fence has only forced thousands to stay, when they'd rather go home when the off season comes. It also sure seams that we could get Mexico to help out in the massive invasion of their people. Your idea sounds good on paper, and who knows maybe it would work a bit.

Stop European-American Genocide
Phyllis Schlafly is one of the most courageous Americans ever.

Nothing is more racist than invading another country and imposing your language,customs, crime, and pollution on an unwilling host.

Liberal fascists want nothing less than the extermination of european americans, which they hope to accomplish with a three-pronged attack - from the south, from the Muslim countries, and from within using our government.

If european anericans are to survive, we must immediately boycott any company that puts out spanish writing, advertising, or signs, and immediately boycott any company that hires illegal invaders.

We must revoke the tax-exempt status of the Catholic Church and any other organization that supports the invaders.

La Raza, BAMN, and other internal terrorist groups are not being prosecuted under RICO or anti-terror laws. Why not, you should be asking "your" representatives?

The invaders are wreaking environmental devastation across the border areas of the Southwest. Yet their collaborators in the Sierra Club utter not one peep.

Our government is a coalition of special interests who view ordinary Americans the same way the Mexican oligarchy views their peasants. As stupid peons who are here to serve their interests - cheap labor, cheap votes, social chaos that results in more dependency on their puppet government. They see Mexicans as more pliable than the european americans.

The big story - the real reason Bush/Clinton/McCain/Obama do nothing - illegal invaders are being allowed in to "rescue" Social Security and Medicare for a decade or two until the liberal fascists figure out the Final Solution.

to Lodestar GA
No ILLEGAL alien need be naturalized unless WE choose to do so. It is unfair to so many deserving people who wish to emigrate here legally and properly to allow these lawbreaking interlopers any special breaks. Border jumping is just the first of many laws they break, most of which are felonies prima facie.

Here's another law illegals are breaking...upon reaching 18, they must register for Selective Service...if they don't, they cannot be granted citizenship....look it up.

Citizen's Amnesty
All of us who are law-abiding should begin inquiring the following of our elected officials and judicial officers:
Which laws may we break so that we can receive legal parity with the illegal aliens and the employers of illegal aliens? When can we begin receiving payments to bring us financial parity with the approximately $22k/yr cost of each illegal alien?
Oh, and the politicians and civil servants who do not uphold the Constitutional protection of our borders - be honorable and leave office soon and quietly, or hold to the oath you took to protect us.

doctorfixit
I think the Pope said it best when he spoke of protecting immigrant families, not dividing them.

"Benedict has calibrated his immigration stance with care, stating the need to protect family unity and immigrants’ human rights, but pointedly avoiding any specifics of the American immigration debate, like the issue of whether to grant legal status to illegal immigrants. Yet last week his visit quickly stirred the crosscurrents of the debate."

There really is no use to demonize them. Yes, assuredly we need to fix the problem and stop the flow, but with good old American values and mercy.

Where does it all STOP
In Mexico there seems to be a generalized opinion that the illegals in the USA are supposed to be there and we are meanies if we object. That is not the case for other countries north or south of Mexico.

If you let a distant relative or for that matter a stranger into your house for several years, you can bet that sooner than later they would feel entitled to stay there indefinitely and would complain bitterly if you suggested they leave.

In Mexico the government understands the general public there feels that we owe them and constantly points out the contributions made to the "Unitedstatesers" (Estadounidenses), there word or name for us, we are never called AMERICANS nor is our country called "America", alternately and frequently they refer to us as North Americans (Norte Americanos)and our country as the United States of North America, when in truth the contribution is to the Mexican economy and not to ours. The dollars converted back to pesos coming from immigrants, mostly from illegals, is an enormous contribution to their economy only superseded by oil revenues, and is several times the contribution of tourism which is a very large and lucrative industry in Mexico.

Most illegals do not come to the U.S. expecting to stay and in truth many go home although back and forth is extremely common. What is typical is that those who truly return to Mexico are the better and more entrepreneurial ones, and the sliders without a future are the ones who typically stay in the U.S.

We can use and need some of them for agriculture and a few other items, but they should be controlled as "braceros" with limited opportunities to eventually stay.

We do require some legal immigration especially from the well educated who are available. personally, I believe, I, if one of the educated foreigners, would think twice about immigrating to the U.S.

For those who do not know me...........

I am very fluent in Spanish since 50 years ago and have lived, worked or traveled in ALL of Latin America with considerable time spent in Mexico.

I know whereof I speak. He dicho..

-
-


lodestar's (Rondak, Joyyy etc) posts
This may be wishful thinking....hopefully those "in power" check out Townhall.com. Lodestar's (etc) posts are simply stated, easy to understand and speak the truth. "They" would learn how concerned and AWARE legal American citizens are about the problems we face with the Invasion of Illegals. Face it we ARE BEING INVADED and those in Washington are turning a blind eye to the future of the United States of America. NumbersUSA's Roy Beck gives you a scary visual of our future or lack there of here. We must protect our sovereignty.

Stop bunching legal & ilegal immigrants
Dear Ms. Schlafly,
I am an immigrant from India and would agree with everything you say - as long as you use the word 'illegal immigration' instead of just immigration. Of course theoretically, you can bunch the two together and still justify your numbers because there are 10 illegals in this country for every legal immigrant like me and my wife. But tell me, is that the honest thing to do? Almost everyone coming into this country legally comes in either as a family member(which takes 10-20 years) or as a speciality skilled worker(in which case we pay more taxes than we ever consume in services).

For example, I and my wife will pay taxes on a gross income of over $250,000 next year. I am an engineer while she is a Psychiatrist practicing in an underserved area. We love this country, fly the star and stripes on our car and are raising our 1-year old son to be a patriotic American.

Please stop bunching us with illegals and kindly focus your ire where it should - on people like Maryland senator Barbara Mikulski who told our delegation (we wanted her support on a bill to release available visa numbers) last week that "we legal immigrants are spoiled brats. All we have to do is wait for our turn and we are coming to her for favors. Its the illegals in her view who need help" Of course they do, they represent 11 million potential locked up votes for the Democratic party.

The battle against illegal immigration is worth fighting and winning and I believe conservatives should want legal immigrants on their side in fighting it.

Jayant's post above illustrates the
difference between legal and illegal. The illegals are NOT immigrants, they are migrants who are here for the money. They care nothing for the country or it's customes.

Legal immigration seeks out educated people who are willing to assimilate. Illegal migration seeks out welfare, money, and jobs.

All illegals that are found should be immediatley deported unless they are found via a crime. In tyhat case they should be deported AFTER getting out of jail.

All CEOs of companies found to knowingly hire illegals should also go to jail. No pleabargains, no fines, and no sob stories accepted; ONLY jail time.

The anchor baby interpretation by the immigration people should be removed via Executive order.

Following that the problem will simply go away on it's own.

Absolutely every word in this is true
and understated. More issues include exponentially increased gang/drug activity, MS13, DDPs, Latin Kings, etc... which takes a huge toll in corrections, along with increased identity theft. All of the illegals I encounter (which isn't ALL, but its all I encounter) send money back home and avail themselves to various services here. There are booklets we hand out to illegals on their rights and entitlements. They would never, ever think about having fewer children- never. They're for the rest of us to worry about supporting. Things are really bad, and will affect the yet unaffected in time, but by then it will be too late. Its too late now, really.

As for cheap produce, which is the stupid arguement used to favor illegal immigration, things aren't so cheap these days because the size and scope of government has outgrown our ability to support it. The trickle down affect has quite arrived, and the amount of gov't dependents is only going to increase. Don't think they'll think twice about taking your home and 'redistributing" it to someone who needs it more. Sound alarmist? There has been small talk among some social workers that small families who have big houses should give them to large families who have small houses. It has no traction, but there were alot of nodding heads. We are so liberally screwed.

Taft
Anyone interested in the real situation should watch the video posted by Joyyyy.

Here it is again. Watch it and then get back to us.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265 &q=numbersusa&hl=en

Anchor babies are not "going away".....

No candidate for president in 2008 will ever sign an executive order banning the recognition of anchor babies.

Just look at who they are. Obama.??. Shrillary Clintrock.??. and McShameful, Kennedy's twin brother.??.

Let's get real. We are screwed and it will take an act of heaven or an extreme malcontent to unscrew us.


If the GOP doesn't spur this
debate by July we need to have a major push for an independent party complete with representatives and senators in every district and state. Along with judges, drilling and ethanol this issue will cull the dim and rino libs from both parties. Let's then see if McCain gets it.

lodestar
Why don't you open a blog here on TH to post the information you gave here today. It would be appreciated!

The headquarters
for the "take back the southwest" for mexico is in Del Rio Texas.

And you can't tell me the government doesn't know this!!

I have seen the proposed map!
And i also have a vhs showing a drawing of similar "lines".

The Video
I suggest sending the link to it to everyone you know. And thanks to those who took the time to watch it. It is quite an eye opener.

Our country is committing suicide. It's a nice notion to be compassionate to the plight of others, but at some point we have to say stop. People can show their compassion by giving to those charities that help people help themselves in their own countries. That is the answer.

Jayant and Vic - Yes, I stand corrected. I will call them illegal invaders from now on.

Mrs. Paddy
Thank you for providing that video but I saw it once a long time ago, and had bad things to say about then. First off, I don't trust statistics, especially by a journalist who has an agenda. second, it goes coundter to what the Pope's sentiments where, and mine, towards immigration.

This from NumbersUSA

“While Beck and NumbersUSA are careful not to appeal directly to racist or nativist sentiments, they do support harsh treatment of illegal immigrants, including speedy deportations and sharply reducing access to political asylum and judicial hearings. In Beck's May 15, 2000 statement to the Immigration and Claims Subcommittee of the U.S. House Judiciary Committee, Beck said NumbersUSA supports the apprehension and finger-printing of every possible illegal alien, even if there aren't enough resources to deport most of them. This will not only be disruptive to their communities—especially if people are randomly pulled from the pool to go through the swift deportation system—but it will kick in the 10-year exclusion rule on them, preventing them from benefiting from any legal access in the United States.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az =view_all&address=364x2870116#2870449

Jayant
Welcome to America!

You are the kind of immagrants the US should be courting. From day 1 - highly trained people who are net contributors working to move this country forward.

It is a shame that more native born Americans do not take advantage of the educational system to gain valuable skills. But since we don't, lets enlist skilled people from around the world and give them a shot.

It is ironic that highly training people from India are frequently more committed citizens of the US than native born citizens. They realize that the US is a great and fair country.

Jayant

LEGACY OF TED KENNEDY
The immigration problem since 1965 has been compounded by another act of infamy perpetrated by none other than the lib hero Ted(the Blowviator)Kennedy, his immigration reform act was another of those JPF party ploys used to keep the Jackass Party from imploding by it's own stupidity and greed to retain undeserved power in office. It was not in any way acted upon to help any immigrant, legal or illegal, it was strictly self serving and indirectly resulted in an indentured class of impressed servitude by those lured to this country by unscrupulous business practice and condoned by crooked politicians.

Here in a nutshell is the life, the times and the sum legacy of one Ted kennedy and the lowlife ilk that allowed him to exist. Hero of the left.

2
and educated immagrants also realize how fragile prosperity can be... just a little too much corruption... a few of the wrong laws and economic policies... and the system slows and opportunity shrinks.

India is a country with many human and natural resources... yet for 50+ years after independence corruption and misguided policies has held the country back. Things are getting better in India... but someone who grew up in that environment knows that prosperity is not a given... prosperity is not automatic.

it matters not....
who is elected POTUS. All three are willing to sell this country to the lowest bidder. During the next 4 years all Americans should be aware and let elected representatives know how what we expect them to do about illegals here and the ones still coming in!

Taft
I didn't see anywhere in the video any mention of demonizing immigrants. The fault is in our government.

Compassion for the needy is not just taking them all in....We CANNOT do it.

I will say this...it certainly will level the playing field when we are all living in a 3rd world country, and the only winners are the 'ruling class'

If you can't get the statistics as shown, then I guess there is no hope.

The upshot of the video was blame the system not the immigrants.

After looking
at the figures posted by lodestar for the costs of illegal immigration, I hope I never see another post on these threads about the high cost of the war in Iraq.

Taft

It's time for you to put your money where your mouth goes.

How many illegals are you willing to sponsor and care for.??. Unless you already have some under your wing of course.

I don't believe you are a bleeding heart liberal who is blindsided by all this. You must have some personal or economic stake in allowing and keeping half of humanity in the U.S.A.




Memorial
Day tribute to the veterans. My blog.

oneceamarine
My posts are confusing, and I'm sorry. I know illegal immigration is a very serious problem and we should fix what we can and stop any further problems. How many would I care for, honestly, I wouldn't hire them, but if they were staving I'd feed them. The ones with children born here, I'd also give special consideration for. I know no one here believes it, but if you were aware of how vast the California agricultural needs are for workers, one would realize they are not the drain on society as they think they are. I, just this last summer, btw, hired the local town guys to roof my house, when a lot of people were hiring cheap Mexican labor, ( I don't know if they're illegals). I'm very glad I did too, the work is guaranteed and they did a great job.

TAFT in GA = HAVE MERCY ON ME
I think the Pope said it best when he spoke of protecting immigrant families, not dividing them.

"Benedict has calibrated his immigration stance with care, stating the need to protect family unity and immigrants’ human rights, but pointedly avoiding any specifics of the American immigration debate, like the issue of whether to grant legal status to illegal immigrants. Yet last week his visit quickly stirred the crosscurrents of the debate."

1) methinks the illegal breaks up his family first when he/she decides to come here unlawfully and leaves his/her family behind.

2) methinks Italy has quota #'s on who can enter legally...

3) they too are tired of those who enter illegally...

so it's a joke about what the Pope thinks or says...why isn't he talking about responsibility for one own's actions?

These are the real heroes
“A real star is the soldier of the 4th Infantry Division who poked his head into a hole on a farm near Tikrit, Iraq. He could have been met by a bomb or a hail of AK-47 bullets. Instead, he faced an abject Saddam Hussein and the gratitude of all of the decent people of the world. A real star is the U.S. soldier who was sent to disarm a bomb next to a road north of Baghdad. He approached it, and the bomb went off and killed him. A real star, the kind who haunts my memory night and day, is the U.S. soldier in Baghdad who saw a little girl playing with a piece of unexploded ordnance on a street near where he was guarding a station. He pushed her aside and threw himself on it just as it exploded. He left a family desolate in California and a little girl alive in Baghdad. The stars who deserve media attention are not the ones who have lavish weddings on TV but the ones who patrol the streets of Mosul even after two of their buddies were murdered and their bodies battered and stripped for the sin of trying to protect Iraqis from terrorists. We put couples with incomes of $100 million a year on the covers of our magazines. The noncoms and officers who barely scrape by on military pay but stand on guard in Afghanistan and Iraq and on ships and in submarines and near the Arctic Circle are anonymous as they live and die.” —Ben Stein

interesting
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265 &q=numbersusa&hl=en

The “numbers” video is interesting, but the numbers alone, in my view, are not the only problem.

The core of the problem is… that civility and prosperity are fragile. I think it is naïve to assume that our system can continue to function with the current self-loathing plus continual dilution of the American philosophy and ethic.

Today we are struggling to teach our own children about being Americans. With all of the PC noise and self-loathing and relativism the diversity crowd is pushing, the US becomes less and less cohesive. It seems that the official policy of the educational system is to preach moral / civic / cultural / economic relativism.

Keep in mind that many of the immigrants we receive come from societies where corruption and nepotism and other ills are the norm. Throughout human history corruption and nepotism has been the norm.

The systems that the US / Canada / Western Europe are unusual. I think our systems are becoming more and more fragile because of the diversity movement and ease in which our western cultures prefers to see our own flaws.

I bet if you go to an average grade-school civics or history class and talk to the students… their talk will be more sure and confident on the topic about the flaws and mistakes of the US. The ideas of how the US has navigated her troubles and comparing them with other countries and human history are subtle and complex topics.

My mind is a little scattered on this part of the argument… but in my gut I know there is serious danger ahead.

hanson
Good points. I don't think the Pope is saying we should allow illegal immigration to happen or not to rectify it, but to do it humanly and to consider the families. Many of whom come because NAFTA wipped out their farms. Thousands of the small Mexican farmer that could get by growing corn, had to compete with heavily subsidized American Farms/Corporations. They were desperate I suppose to find work.

Joyyyy
You posted a terrific link. I watched it and sent it on to my contacts. One of my contacts is a former student (now 20), who has an older sister in Columbia Graduate school for social work. The idiot SW student sent me a scathing email (scathing for an idiot, anyway)saying that I should lose my license for advocating "the comparison of human beings to gum balls". That's what the liberal twit got from the video. Unbelievable.

If Milton Friedman was right...
If we agree with Milton Friedman that we "can't have free immigration and a welfare state", the question is, what is the real problem, free immigration or the welfare state? What should we curb first?

In a private email to me, Milton Friedman stated clearly that free immigration is the way to go. You draw the conclusions.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
An author of the Freedom of Migration Act proposal.

Read about it at
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/immigration.htm

See it at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6i8xbHNCxoU

Mrs. Paddy and Master of Deception
Numbersusa is one of agendas of a known white supremacist, John Tanton, http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid =72

They do not search for the truth, they produce what asked and paid for; they manipulate information in order to make it appear supporting their xenophobic agenda.

Nevertheless, one have to recognize that demagogy of Roy Beck reaches high level of excellence. For this reason, he is awarded a title of the Master of Deception,
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/$100_challenge.htm .

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

Joyyy, a victim of Master of Deception
Please read my recent comment addressed to Mrs. Paddy.

ha.....I remember when
Your view of immigration is what most of America believes we still have. What a joke!

Earned citizenship and pride in their new country or stolen citizenship and loyalty to their true homeland first, foremost, and forever. Which of the two will benefit America?

Yeah, you're right. My people got here a little earlier, but my memories of immigration are those who came after the war. Our small community drew them from a number of places, but they all had that one thing in common; the desire to be Americans. I miss that, don't you?

Do You Want To Keep Your Country?


We the People of the United States of America have the right to have our borders and our laws respected and enforced.

Citizens of other countries illegally in our country have no right to demand anything from our government. They most certainly have the right to petition the governments of their home countries for change if they are unhappy with their home country. If they want to be Americans, we have a path to citizenship, more generous than any other nation, and it starts in their home country.

We need to insist on the equal protection, application and enforcement of the law or devolve into anarchy. Our Republic only functions if everyone follows the same rules. We should not change the laws to accomodate those breaking them.

If America annouces to the world "We can't stop you, so come on in" with another amnesty, the deluge will be overwhelming. If 3,000 a day didn't get your attention, then wait until it's 10,000 a day. We cannot sustain this influx and survive as a nation. We must speak up and speak to each other about this and not let false claims of racism or bigotry be used to intimidate us into silent assent. America is not Congress' to give away. America belongs to We the People. Speak to your neighbors, speak to your coworkers, but please speak up to your Congressmen and Senators. It's O.K. for us to enforce our laws, no really, it is.

Someone please tell Sen. McCain.

immigration
Let us not forget that one of the fuels of immigration is the population explosion going on in poor countries. The global gag rule ,invented by Reagan, to appease the anti-abortion folks cut off family planning $ to poor countries. The result family planning clinics closed and poor women living on $1-2.00 a day could no longer afford contraceptives. The result, thousands of unplanned, unwanted babies born in countries who can't grow their economies fast to provide jobs for them. Do you stay put and die or immigrate and hope for the best.

If we do happen to develop a way to shut down the flow immigration out of Mexico best we do it carefully. Immigration is a safety valve for that country governed by corrupt leaders. Without that release it will easily fall into chaos. Think we have an immigration problem now. Just what will happen if it falls into civil war. Look at the mass of immigration d out of Iraq into neighboring Jordan and Syria. the problem could get MUCH worse.

Don't just curse the darkness...


... get involved to save America! Middle Americans JUST LIKE YOU have stopped scamnesty so far, but it is an ongoing challenge against monied, powerful, organized special interests! As Mexifornia residents can attest, we risk losing America soon due to ILLEGAL alien voter fraud, the Reconquista agenda, and morphing ineluctably into a third world welfare state as they vote it in. The left is not waiting for them to become citizens-- why be bothered by that mere technicality?! They load them up in vans and hand them instructions in Espanol on how to vote. It is "40 acres and a mule/we're your friends" all over again.

Many RINOS/CINO'S are utter FOOLS to speak of capturing some of their votes because of purported "conservative social values." [What, pray tell, is "conservative" about wanton penchants toward crime, drugs, gangs, illegitimacies, ignorance/dropouts, barrio blight and balkanization, tax dodging, and identity fraud?!?!]

Legal, middle class Hispanics sometimes vote as conservatives, but ILLEGALS will vote 95:5 for entitlement government, thus soon inexorably morphing America irretrievably into a welfare state third world country, partly because they will insist that their myriad indigent, ignorant relatives all come here as well. Even a liberal demographer has admitted that ILLEGAL immigration will become the "the mother of all unfunded mandates for government largess."

If we do not stop ILLEGALS soon, it will be TOO LATE. Join the fight by rattling cages in Congress; you can reach them directly here at their official sites, or send targeted free e-mails via NumbersUSA... bookmark the sites, and get involved ASAP! America would be a terrible thing to lose... just look at Mexifornia as a harbinger of the national barrio to come.

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm
http://www.numbersusa.com/index

A New Argument About Immigration
Phyllis Schlafly-

Thank you for your recent column, A New Argument About Immigration. I am, however, very disappointed that you did not immediately establish -- and focus on -- the most fundamental differences between contemporary immigrants and earlier immigrants: race (DNA) and the geo-biological incompatibility of the resultant various human organisms and cultures.

We risk losing Western Civilization because Caucasians and other races are genetically incompatible in the same society and geographical space, not simply because Central and South American Amerindians and Mestizos, and others, are “low-wage workers.”

Please continue your good work by including the most important reality -- the reality of race -- in your discussions.

-Jim

the Conspiracy Of Evil


re:
"Judging by results the support for immigration control is a mile wide, but an inch deep. The primaries proved it. Every voter wanted it, but wanted something else more."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The biggest problem here is that the money and organization (hence power) is on the pro-ILLEGAL side. These forces include an unlikely, strange bedfellow alliance between groups which want to use them in different ways--> the Conspiracy Of Evil.

Miscreant employers simply want to exploit their labor-- screw the myriad egregious socio-economic problems they will foist upon America. The PC left wants to get them voting and seize permanent control for big entitlement government. The scandal-plagued Catholic Church needs replacement bodies for the pews; and they can put more in the collection plates in America than in Mexico. Ethnocentric Hispanic groups really do want an effective Reconquista, so they hide behind claims of racism and pleas for PC multiculturalism. Finally, the remote elites including the liberal MSM do not see what all the fuss is about; besides, they LIKE their cheap ILLEGAL maids and yard-workers, and THEIR kids will not go to schools with "those people."

Over 70% of America is righteously indignant about ILLEGAL aliens:

"Compared to other problems facing the country, how big a problem is ILLEGAL immigration?"

One of the most important-- 27%
Important-- 54%
--
total 81%

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_res earchd74c
http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2003/december/cipub 2.asp

Wave goodbye to America!
Phyllis Schlafly, as always, has hit the nail on the head and has again sounded the alarm of one of the major threats to our country. This is especially important because the MSM and most politicians rarely refer to it, even in this election year.

I agree with earlier posters who see the outrageous malfeasence on the part of elected representatives.
One does not have to be a rocket scientist to see the harm being done to our country by this invasion of immigrants, both legal and illegal. This out of control threat could well sound the death knell to the America
we all know.
Despite the overwhelming evidence of this threat, all the presidential candidates vow to grant amnesty to the millions and millions of illegals in our country. McCain apparently cannot wait to initiate a new amnesty program after a sham showing of enforcing the border. I cannot even hold my nose and vote for him, I hope the ballot has the option for "None of the Above." Bush is another traitor with his stealth conspiracy to surrender our nation's sovereignty.
Bush obviously thinks that because of his "superior intellect" he does not need to consult the great unwashed and stupid American people.


Juan mccain
mccain is going to speak to the xenophobic racist organisation: LA RAZA. he thinks he can get a few thousand votes from them.
ironically, he will lose hundreds of thousands of votes from conservatives.

viva la raza,

A. B. Normal
Lancaster, Greater Aztlan
dial 1 for english
p.s. who are the real racists?

you cannot go home again
... so wrote Thomas Wolfe about the resulting disillusionment. Our first home 30 years ago was in Roswell, Ga. It had been decidedly upper middle class suburbia. We drove thru there the other day and were stunned to see Hispanic business signs pervading.

Our former neighborhood had deteriorated, partly because ILLEGALS had invaded and overpopulated houses like a plague of roaches. Where there had once been upwardly mobile neighborhood pride there is now barrio blight developing. Interestingly, there is no ignorant manual labor employment such as food processing nearby. Someone living in Silver Spring,- Md. noted this same thing recently-- homes and yards going to hell because of ILLEGAL Hispanics.

Those who deny these inimical/pernicious realities and omens are like those in Germany in the 30's who denied that Hitler would do some of those things he had written about...

hypocrisy once again


Much as I respect Ms Schlafly, this article has its faults.

She says this is a "new" argument against immigration, both legal & illegal. But there's no new argument.

She cites the same remedies that have made no difference over the entire Reagan-Clinton-Bush terms. Throw out those "invaders" from Mexico.

Yet we all know the illegal alien is routinely deported. If he's deported, how has he "stolen" our country? How has he exploited our public services? His main offense is that he returns. He re-enters illegally because Americans hire his services. There is no question he'd still come, even if all public assistance were unavailable to him.

We only need to give repeat offenders the punishment any lawbreaking citizen receives. Three strikes you're out. Go to prison for a mandated minimum sentence. At the same time, make employers serve time should they knowingly hire an illegal alien.

On the plus side; we should employ every willing farm laborer at a fair wage depending on his/her Green Card, without which he can't be hired. There really are no other alternatives. Unless the United States is willing to install land mines along the fence now standing at our southern border.

Which is draconian and uncivilized.

.

Another loophole
Tax payers are paying for the delivery of illegal's children in Arizona and I don't mean in the emergency room! I found out that DES (The Dep of Economic Security) is paying for anybody with financial need who applies for funding for childbirth in the last trimester without regards to citizenship. The hospital and OB/GYN get paid and the taxpayer gets screwed.

What's also surprising is we here in Arizona thought we passed some tough anti illegal immigration bills effective Jan 1,08 but not one business has been prosecuted yet for hiring illegals.

marxist may day marchers
the marchers must be the most uninformed or educated people. abundant ignorance.

they hold signs that are anti george bush.
he wants to make them citizens. lower class but citizens.

they hold signs that praise cesar chavez.
he had his union workers call the INS (ICE) when illegal aliens showed up in the growers fields.
he stated that he was totally on the anti illegal alien side. they undermined the jobs and wages of u.s. workers.

now i understand the pro che, fidel, hugo signs and t-shirts. ignorant ammerica hatint peasants led by the marxists coalition.

they want to walk the gringos up the pyramid and cut out their hearts. i heard that at work.

adios,
Jarvey
Lancaster, Mexifornia
dial 1 for english

Krikorian's main point being missed
Reading these posts I'm not seeing Krikorian's and the author's main point: the current level of LEGAL immigration is far too high, let alone illegal immigration. Mr. Krikorian published a big study a few months ago on this very topic but it got little press other than on C-SPAN.

I saw Lou Dobbs say on his show last night that he favors INCREASED legal immigration. Perhaps Dobbs hasn't read Mr. Krikorian's study yet.

protest vote time
re:
McCain apparently cannot wait to initiate a new amnesty program after a sham showing of enforcing the border. I cannot even hold my nose and vote for him, I hope the ballot has the option for "None of the Above."
************************************************
I presume that Georgia's own Bob Barr will be on the ballot here... for the first time in 40 years of voting, I will make a protest vote for him. Amnesty John McQuisling is patently unacceptable... the supercilious old goat is arrantly lying about hearing America's message. Like Presidente Jorge, he made a Faustian deal for Hispanic and miscreant employer support, and the majority can just go to heil as far as he cares!

The remote rich LIKE their ILLEGAL alien domestic help... THEIR children do not go to schools decimated by them... and THEIR neighborhoods will not be burdened with barrio blight.

Steve
Seriously, are you going to want the government to deny pregnant women who come to the hospital, and yet be anti-abortion at the same time?

Evidence of the clandestine agenda

If you want to read a bit about the North American Union and the related ecurity and Prosperity Partnership, check out the Bush White House's own publication on some of it below.

In 2004, while visiting in Mexico, RINO globalist, open border Presidente Jorge Bush surreptitiously committed America to send S.S. funds south to Mexico even for those who had worked here only as ILLEGAL aliens... this later stunned many in Congress when they learned about it. In early 2007, Jorge told them in Spanish down in Mexico that he would be working hard for THEM, Mexican citizens, to assure passage of Kennedy-McAmnesty here. Many consider that nothing short of treason!

Anyone who brays about "conspiracy theorists" really needs only read a little bit to learn that there is no "theory" involved. Presidente Jorge has been hell-bent on effecting a North American Union. If you have liked NAFTA, perhaps you will love what they have planned for you.

Personally, I would rather have been asked to vote first on such agendas... so even would many in Congress.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/03/20050323-1. html
http://www.spp.gov/index.asp
http://www.libertygunrights.com/NAUFactSheet.pdf

opposition efforts:
http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.grassfire.org/
http://www.grasstopsusa.com/
http://stopspp.com/stopspp/?page_id=11
http://www.stopthenorthamericanunion.com/
http://www.citizensunited.org

Immigration problems
When a worker who has paid for 40 years of social security taxes becomes terminally ill he is denied Social Security disability; while an immigrant over the age of 62 is given social security disability benefits without ever paying into the system. The immigrant is eligible immediately upon entering the country on a visa obtained by relatives who pledged to be financially responsible for them for five years.
Now I must find a way to forgive a system that offered my father $66. a month social security at age 62 in 1970 after losing his government retirement when he was forced to resign 2 years short of the 20 years required for government pension. Dad worked another 7 years and social security still wasn't enough to live on when he was 69 so he put a bullet in his heart because he didn't want to be a burden on the family.
My husband and I were serving our country in the Air Force in Okinawa, SSgt and Airman 1st class. I had sent Dad money for a airline ticket to come live with us but he chose suicide. I don't want to be bitter but Jesus needs to help me on this one.

surreptitious machinations by Jorge,etc.

The U.S.-Mexico Totalization Agreement... ever heard of it?

Most people have no knowledge whatsoever of the subterfuge played here to effect this... many in Congress were surprised by things that Presidente Jorge Bush committed to with his amigo Vicente Fox. Now the new president of Mexico is openly calling HERE for ILLEGAL aliens to protest in the streets for their
"rights." Did you wonder why the govt., in consort with a drug smuggler, went after border
guards Campean and Ramos simply for doing their jobs? Because Presidente Jorge Bush wanted to influence the close Mexican election by assuring them that their wretched and ignorant would really be welcome here. While in Mexico in early 2007, Traitor Jorge promised them in Espanol to work to assure passage of Kennedy-McTraitor scamnesty for THEM, Mexican citizens! Did you vote for Presidente Jorge Bush to represent Mexicans?!

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back904.html
http://www.numbersusa.com/hottopic/totalization.htm
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/7/2/21483 4.shtml?s=lh
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst010807.htm
http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/factsheets/USandMexico.htm

Illegal Immigration
I also agree that we dont have much to pick from for Pres. but the only reason I will vote for McCain is that he promised that he would have all border states certify that fences were built.

I am in favor of a change of our law from illegal entry only being a misdeamnor, to a Felony with a Mandatory Prison term of 3 years, and then deportation....2nd offense, 5 years,

Look up Mexico's own ILLEGAL Entry laws.....

IN truth, We dont need any farm workers...NONE...!!!

All we have to do is take away the "weights" from prisons, and offer the jobs to convicts who would love to work outside of the walls, for 8 hours in the free air, and pay them .25 cents an hour, and keep half of their pay until they are released for walking around money.

In their language, they must also be told that,if they try to escape, THEY WILL BE SHOT AND KILLED, UNDERSTOOD..???

NOW, THE "cHEAP " LABOR THAT THE FARMERS ARE LOOKING FOR IS EVEN BETTER THAN WHAT 'ILLEGALS' WILL WORK FOR.

ILLEGALS " WOULD SELF-DEPORT BECAUSE OF THE NEW LAW AND PRISON, AND WE COULD GET BACK TO "our" AMERICA, OUR WAY OF LIVING, WITH OUT BANKRUPTING HOSPITALS AND CLINICS, AND PUSHING # 1 FOR ENGLISH....

HAK - A victim of liberal brainwashing
The video is right on the money. Your links are quite biased. They paint anyone who is against illegal invaders and too high levels of legal immigration as 'haters' and 'racists' which is hyberbole. I see who is behind your links. I would view THEM as the racists and haters.

I'm not a racist, I simply understand that unchecked immigration is going to turn my country into a third-world nation just like the ones the immigrants are trying to get out of.

oldsocialworker - 'comparing people to gumballs' LOL Yet more proof that liberalism is a psychiatric disorder. Liberals are highly allergic to facts. *sigh*






Bigjer
Your idea is also a good one. Actually, a very good one. It would help keep the cost of food down and since we are stuck paying for their healthcare and upkeep anyway, it wouldn't add to those costs like illegals do.

The falacy of low food prices using illegal invaders is that yes, the food costs are lower, but the costs are more than made up for in the areas of healthcare, closed hospitals, food stamps, blighted areas, higher crime, etc.

We need to get State propositions started.

PS to HAK and others - The video that is right on the money I referenced was the one I linked, not anything of haks.

Can't hurt to list it again:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265 &q=numbersusa&hl=en


Joyyyy
Mexico is a third world country because of the system they live in and historical past, not because of some inherent quality the individual person possesses. The dynamics that might make America into a 3rd world country may well be in the works, but because of immigrants.

I found a fascinating study on this here..

"Hernando de Soto got some researchers to conduct a famous experiment: to attempt to get all the legal approvals needed to set up a small textile concern in Lima, Peru. It took 289 days of dealing with the bureaucracy, just to get the legal approvals. The same exercise in Miami, Florida (also a largely Hispanic city nowadays) took less than a day. It is perfectly obvious where there will be more economic activity, and where people will be more prosperous."

http://www.ipa.org.au/files/news_520.html

Emma Lazarus revisited
In 1883 the poet Emma Lazarus wrote “The New Colossus”, a poem familiar to most and engraved on a bronze plaque at the base of the Statue of Liberty.

Here’s my revised interpretation of her poem updated to our needs in the 21st century. Century.

{Give me your well educated, your highly skilled,
Your honest, energetic, law–abiding citizens
Yearning to assimilate and contribute to a Free nation.
The most gifted and talented of your teaming shores,
The best and brightest; send these to me.
For them, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
Others need not apply.}


Enforce Immigration Laws On The books
We already have laws on the books that make it Illegal to enter this country without following legal procedures. Enforce them. Patrol the Border, turn them back at the border. As for those who hire them, arrest them since they are already breaking the law. If you Dry UP the places of Employment, and cut off all Aid to them, they will go home. ARREST ALL ILLEGALS WHO ARE PRESENTLY IN THE COUNTRY. ARREST EVERYBODY THAT HIRES THEM OR HAS EVER HIRED THEM. MAKE THEM PAY AND PAY, JUST LIKE YOU AND ME HAVE TO PAY WHEN WE BREAK A LAW. START IN TOWNS AND COUNTIES. POLICE DO NOT MIND ARRESTING LEGAL CITIZENS FOR BREAKING LAWS. SHERIFF'S DEPTS. DO NOT MIND ARRESTING FOLKS IF THEY ARE CITIZENS. WHY ARE ILLEGALS AND THOSE WHO HIRE THEM ABOVE THE LAW??????????

off topic but revalent
This is off topic of illegal immigration but since Mclame supports that this is revelent because he also supports the AGW fraud and Kyoto. A study (by liberals) has found that the U.N. program for AGW in which the “rich” countries who are supposed to be paying for “poor” countries like China to cut carbon is being fraudulently administered. LOL, a program based on fraud to steal money from the West wasn’t good enough. They have to also have fraud in the program itself.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/may/26/climatech ange.greenpolitics/print


rigdone
My heart goes out to you and I am sorry that your Father was treated so poorly. May God bless him today and always. You have every right to be angry about the situation you described.

We are either a country of laws or we are not. I keep waiting for the good people of this country to take a stand but what can you do when the members of both political parties are cowards with regard to this issue.

Take care and may God Bless your family.

Immigrants?
Those who come here lawfully and obey our laws, learn our language and help us to build a better America will always be welcome.

Those who come here to steal from us and to victimize Americans should be severely punnished.
Returning them to the border is not punishment.
Keeping them in our jails and prisons is a luxury to them.
We should outsource all non citizen prisoners to foreign prisons by lowest bidder.
Repeat offenders should be SOLD on the Sudan Slave market!
America should not have to tolerate Americans being kidnapped, murdered, raped and robbed along our Southern Border.
It will continue to worsen until we do something about it!

This is only a partial solution;
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/19/mexican-state-whines- about-influx-of-mexican-workers/


Joyyy knows without learning
I appreciate your personal reply. It indicates that you did not read even one line out of my writings about immigration, and you did not see my videos. Therefore, I feel that it is justified to say that you are one of those who know without learning. BTW, this is the kind of crowd that the Master of Deception addresses.

Henryk A. Kowalczyk
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com

The sad reality
We live in a welfare state, which makes this objection not only valid, but overarching. When large-scale violations of the rights of Americans are resulting from it for whatever reason, you don't ask Americans to continue to take it so that foreigners and their employers can exercise their free market rights without bother. You start fixing the problems first, so that Americans can survive, and you open up immigration as these problems get fixed.

The statists got us into this mess, but if anyone wants open immigration, they are going to have to repeal the welfare state, in all its manifestations, because there is no such thing as a right to live off of others; they are going to have to tighten voter identification because there is no such thing as a right to cast a fraudulent vote; they are going to have to secure the border because there is no such thing as a right to sneak across a border; and they are going to have to get a process in place to ensure that anyone who needs a work visa gets one before they arrive in country, because it is a legitimate function of the state to document the entry of non-citizens.

See a pattern here yet?
Free Immigration into a welfare state is something we can't have. But it's just one item on a farly long list.
This ethanol from corn madness is another item. Others are selective law enforcement, affirmative action, excess PC guilt and victimhood, free trade with coolie societies, cartels controlling oil supply.

Culturally we are declining. Lousy music on the radio (anyone still hear radio stations playing the current weekly Top 20 pop and rock songs from Billboard's list? Every station I listened to, quit a long time ago (obvious reason: American's can't put out enough decent music worth listening to anymore).

Trash on the TV (try to watch TV with your family and you'll just see a bunch of erectile dysfunction remedy commercials, frequently interspersed
about once a day with a subtle anti-typical American commercial), plus the content and inuendo on many of the sit-coms, including ones directed towards younger audiences, would never be accpeted even just 20 years ago)

Searching the Internet cannot be done
without exposure to "adult" material. (The default settings on
the most-used search engines, Google and Yahoo, DON'T filter out "adult" content, and their settings are not easily adjusted by novice users. In fact, the filtering settings are accessible only on the advanced search pages, and even there they are
deliberately out of sight down on the second page, so you have to opt for an advanced search, then scroll down to locate and adjust the filtering
every time you run a search, which is too impractical soo no one does). The search engines do this to us because doing so makes them more money, and no one stops them with a complaint or a class action lawsuit or something.

People have either run out of time to become involved or just don't care. Denatured, lacking in moral fiber.
Falling asleep.

Why the Republican malaise?


I was an unpaid volunteer in Atlanta in the Reagan campaigns for POTUS, and even also worked for Daddy Bush, though with an instinctive reluctance that he was a
faux/RINO Eastern Republican. I have voted for the more conservative candidate for POTUS for 40 years.

The less intelligent son Presidente Jorge Bush has screwed up royally on 2 key issues that Amnesty John is in sync with-- making a neoCON war on the wrong bad Arabs, and embracing ILLEGAL aliens. These are symptomatic of why conservative Republicans are dispirited. Each blunder will cost American taxpayers a FORTUNE with long-term detrimental effects, even as Jorge also grew govt. influence and largess (NCLB and Rx Care for Seniors) and spent $ like a drunken sailor 'Crat. The left-leaning RINO party needs a wakeup call.

Amnesty John McQuisling has appointed Smilin' Juan Hernandez to be his "Hispanic Outreach" adviser (to coordinate the Reconquista). The myopia of many RINO's on the open border, "'cheap' labor is good" agenda is stunning and flummoxing. It is fool's gold to fathom that these ignorant, indigent with supposed
"conservative social values" would EVER vote as conservatives simply because a minority of established, middle class Hispanics have done so. What, pray tell, is "conservative" about penchants toward serious crimes, drugs, gangs, dropouts, barrio blight, illegitimacies, and social service decimation?!?!

Obama is a socialist in Pied Piper clothing, but the thought of supporting Amnesty John is like bleeding a patient to cure him-- if the body politic survives, it will be a miracle. What a Hobson's Choice! I will sit this dance
out until the dreadful music dies... perhaps a protest vote for Bob Barr.

HAK - Wrong again
I visited one the site with all the 'hate' group links. It listed the typical KKK groups, which I agree are hate groups, but also listed several 'anti-gay' groups and had some antisemitic crap on their site. Basically, ALL groups that are against unfettered immigration are considered 'hate' groups by that site.

And I searched for LaRaza, but couldn't find it listed anywhere as a hate site. I didn't feel it necessary to look into any of your other links.

Taft - I didn't mean our country would turn into a third world nation because of the 'nature' of Mexicans or any other immigrant group. You read something into my thoughts that isn't there. I think it would because this country doesn't have the resources to take care of that many people and too many of the immigrants are as Phyllis mentioned, very poor and in need of too many services. We simply can't addimilate that many people.

Maybe stop assuming bigotry where there is none.

ad hominems about racism
It is interesting how quickly the left and the bitter anti-America ilk (e.g., hackneyed hak, Akagi, et al) will hurl the tried and true calumny "racism and xenophobia" toward groups like numbersusa. Such ad hominems are surely the masks of iconoclastic scoundrels.

They bray that the data of such groups are unfounded, though they do not cite refuting data. They also fail to note that many groups such as the Heritage Foundation and even PEW Hispanic produce myriad data damning to ILLEGAL aliens.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts and truths.
About 3/4 of Americans are opposed to the plethora of plagues visited upon us by ILLEGALS-- perhaps we should not believe our lying eyes.

Steve - another loophole
you're on the mark....put pregnant illegal women on the bus back to where she was born and let her have her child in her own country...

we must stop the anchor baby program...that's the real draw...cuz once they're born here, it's the beginning of the beginning of the welfare life for them.

lodestar
Exactly - like there couldn't possibly be any other reason to not want millions and millions of people to come here.

When the Statue of Liberty was erected with the caption, 'Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free...' we didn't have food stamps, welfare and socialized health care paid by those who pay taxes. We didn't even have taxes. People were welcomed and expected to carry their own load.

Now that the taxpayer is expected to foot the bill for most of these people, it is a different story. And especially when these people come here illegally which starts them off breaking our laws, and takes away from those coming in through the legal route.

But as that video shows so starkly, we simply cannot assimilate that many people! Reason, facts and logic say it's time to STOP. And it has nothing to do with bigotry!

Catholic Church Supports Invaders
Taft wrote:

"Benedict has calibrated his immigration stance with care, stating the need to protect family unity and immigrants’ human rights, but pointedly avoiding any specifics of the American immigration debate, like the issue of whether to grant legal status to illegal immigrants. Yet last week his visit quickly stirred the crosscurrents of the debate."

Catholic bishops in the US are enabling the invasion, giving direct aid and comfort to the invader, instructing them in how to fraudulently obtain benefits, and assisting them in evading apprehension and deportation. Parishioners are being pressured from the pulpit to condone the massive influx of illegals, a large number of whom are Catholic.

It is every true American's duty to make the invader's life so miserable here their home country looks better in comparison. One way to help that effort will be to remove the Catholic Church's tax exempt status, and seizing the property that the Catholics are using to facilitate the invasion.

Break the back of the Welfare State
Legal immigration is good, illegal immigration is better. I have never heard a bunch of faux-conservatives argue in favor of another government beauracracy. Small government is better isn't it. Let's encourage illegal immigration so we can break the back of the welfare state.

thanks for the appreciation
re:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mrs. Paddy Location: CA
Reply # 60
Date: May 26, 2008 - 12:45 PM EST

lodestar--

Why don't you open a blog here on TH to post the information you gave here today. It would be appreciated!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

My thanks to several of you who expressed appreciation for my various posts here today. I am indeed overdue to set up a blog. I fundamentally believe that the ILLEGAL alien invasion, pervasion decimation and of America is the most insidious threat to our socio-economic well-being.

If you just tuned in, here is some important reference info:

Just below are the official contact sites for Congress... a few clicks, and you can EASILY send e-mails. Even easier--> NumbersUSA gives you FREE, prepared e-mails to send, and even targets your people in Congress for you. BOOKMARK THESE, and get engaged today! america is too special to lose!

http://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/index.htm
http://www.numbersusa.com/actionbuffet




.......
Until our political jackals children are murdered by illegals we wont see any change; they couldn't care less if your child is murdered by an illegal. It is anarchy at our southern border and our politicians will stop at nothing to ensure that the invasion and destruction of our nation continues. Other than hanging our political misfits I don’t see what can be done to remedy this epic disaster; congress is a cesspool of sellouts and whores with few who stand for the American people. Burn it down.

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty......

And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

-Thomas Jefferson

Most countries,
including small Island nations, have a set requirement to become a citizen. I believe it was Costa Rica where you must have at minimum $60k to deposit in their bank, a job, offer of employment, or become an employer who hires CR natives, or can show that you have at least $2k coming in every month via pension, ($2K is a little better than average cost of living)proof that you'll be there at least 6 months out of the year, and a few other minor things TO BECOME A CITIZEN.

The point being that most nations make you prove that you have the ability to provide for yourself and your family and are able to contribute to the nation in at least the same manner native citizens can. But most nations want you to be a genuine asset so expect you to immigrate with slightly more resources than the average citizen.

That is, every nation EXCEPT the U.S. Because of left wing socialist traitors, we allow endless flows of all kinds of immigrants who drain our resources and economy. We welcome vagrants, security risks, seperatists, just anybody. Liberals bash 75% of the populace for wanting to control the flow with a cut off number yet fail to acknowledge that we have the laxist of all immigration standards compared to any nation on the planet.

Wish we could do it this way, but
Taylor - 7:43 PM EST
Break the back of the Welfare State

Let's encourage illegal immigration so we can break the back of the welfare state.
-----
We cannot
The government has a printing press giving themselves and endless supply of money.
The more the pay out the higher the prices of all goods and service.

This is the MAJOR cause of gasoline and food prices rising.
Inflation from printing "money".


lodestar
I do get a newsletter from numbersusa....I don't read it as often as I should, obviously!

I agree with you about the immigration problem.

The thing that frustrates me the most is that 70% (at least) of Americans (obviously this crosses the aisle to both political parties and others) want a secure border and our laws be enforced.

If this is true, how do we accept the candidates that we have for POTUS? How did they ever get there if WE THE PEOPLE have a voice???

I often said that it wouldn't matter which party the candidate was from, if they were CREDIBLE about this issue they'd win in a landslide.

Instead we get the pitiful traitors we have as our 'choice'

It's nuts. Stop by my blog and be sure to let me know when you get yours up and running.


Our reps. both Dem. amd Reps.
have refused to listen to the public even though the *conprehensive* immig. reform bill last summer was soundly defeated by citizen protest.

Now, there's a bill in Congress that would override all local and state laws on immigration like Hazelton, PA, and virtually make the entire US a sanctuary city.

You should contact your Congressmen and tell them that they should continue building the fence they already voted for and funded and that you do not want laws restricting police from asking illegals their immig. status or forcing more Am. citizen social services be granted criminals who should not be in the country.

Moreover, we should work for a law to change the nitwit Sup. Ct. ruling that any baby born here to illegals is automatically a US citizen and revise Teddy Kennedy's law that grants *rights of family reunion* that then brings all the 2nd cousins of the babies born to illegals into the country LEGALLY!!!!!

Illegal immigration
What upsets me the most is how employers treat each legal and illegal workers in CA. If you are a fireman, a policeman, a field worker, etc., you are expected to work for wages far to low to live where the work is. You either commute for hours a day to provide your family a home, or you rent a spot on a floor in eight hour shifts. You have little respect from your employer be they from the market place or government. If you are an illegal you make what you can and send most of your money home, provided your employer doesn't suddenly decide you ar illegal and turn you in to INS without pay. It doesn't matter if you were born in the state, exploitation is the norm. At retirement I couldn't leave quick enough to find a home I could afford on a boarderline poverty retirement and still be in the country I love.